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Speaker 1: Also media, hyah.

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Speaker 2: Okay, like a like a grown up.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna sit normally now, and it's like a grown up.

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Speaker 4: Let's give a hands up to uh.

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Speaker 2: I feel like that was for.

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Speaker 3: You don't fucking control me. I feel like I boo

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Speaker 3: you turning the chair out.

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Speaker 1: No, they don't control but clearly eyes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well yeah, yeah, there you go.

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Speaker 2: There's never been a question about that. You control us.

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Speaker 5: All also shout out us graduating our our booze.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, we've moved up to hard liquor.

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Speaker 2: We've moved up.

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Speaker 3: You're on the bourbon brown brown.

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Speaker 1: Because i gotta walk in the crowd later and I'm

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Speaker 1: very afraid of falling.

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Speaker 3: Oh, that part's gonna be fun.

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Speaker 4: So shall we return to the story of Bo rights, right? So,

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Speaker 4: when we last left off, Bo was touring the country

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Speaker 4: telling lies that he didn't need to tell about Vietnam

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Speaker 4: and raising money to try and send a bunch of

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Speaker 4: goons back to Southeast Asia to rescue a bunch of

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Speaker 4: guys who were not in Southeast Asia?

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Speaker 2: Is he bored?

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Speaker 4: Like, I mean, this seems more fun than like getting

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Speaker 4: a job, Like what would you rather do? Lie to

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Speaker 4: television about Vietnam and take a bunch of money to

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Speaker 4: go vacation in Thailand or work.

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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, look I'm lying about I.

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Speaker 5: Don't think I would do the do the gun like

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Speaker 5: I would just go back case.

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Speaker 3: That's the part.

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying, like, yeah going, and I'm never.

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Speaker 4: Fortunately Bo does not have that governor in his head. No, No,

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Speaker 4: when you and I start our Vietnam drift, it's gonna

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Speaker 4: go a lot better.

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Speaker 3: It's gonna go a lot better.

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Speaker 2: There'll just there'll be a lot of time shares.

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Speaker 4: It's gonna be hard convincing people in twenty forty that

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Speaker 4: they're still US soldiers trapped in Vietnam.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't tell me I'm wrong. Deep down, Bow

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Speaker 1: is just a podcaster.

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Speaker 3: So Bose tour in the country.

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Speaker 4: He's speaking on different TV shows, He's talking at churches,

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Speaker 4: at veterans organizations. He's telling all these stories. And yeah,

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Speaker 4: after months of raising money, he launches what he calls

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Speaker 4: Operation Velvet Hammer in nineteen eighty one.

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Speaker 3: That's a bad one's life.

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Speaker 4: I would use that title if I was writing a

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Speaker 4: screenplay called Operation Hammer Is it would be about a

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Speaker 4: strip club that had to arm themselves.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I was like, this is a porn, yeah, in

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Speaker 3: order to care. No, not a porn.

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Speaker 2: Velvet Hammer.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: One one of the employees at the strip club gets

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Speaker 4: kidnapped by a mafia and the others have to form

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Speaker 4: a commando unit to rescue them.

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Speaker 2: So's it's like a stripper escape room?

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Speaker 3: Yes, kind of, yes, he probably have no.

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Speaker 4: No, It's like it's like Taken, but instead of there

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Speaker 4: being one Liamniessen, there's a bunch and they're all strippers, right,

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Speaker 4: Like that's the story. That's not a bad idea.

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Speaker 3: For I'm just gonna yeah, greenlit. I do think.

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Speaker 5: I do think an adult escape room might actually be

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Speaker 5: a viable business.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, a viable business that will immediately get like

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Speaker 4: the lawsuits, the lawsuits, Oh my god.

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Speaker 3: Yes. Uh.

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Speaker 4: He launch his operation Velvet Hammer in nineteen eighty one.

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Speaker 4: Writing for Time magazine, Pico Iyre reports that Bo gathered

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Speaker 4: up quote twenty one drifters, dreamers and desperadoes, recruited a psychic,

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Speaker 4: a hypnotherapist, and some reporters, and began practice.

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Speaker 5: Hey okay, okay, I might be here for this one.

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Speaker 5: I'm on his team now.

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Speaker 3: If I'm putting together.

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Speaker 4: A platoon of veterans in order to like rescue guys,

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Speaker 4: what do you need, Well, you need some drifters. Obviously,

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Speaker 4: you're gonna need some dreamers, some desperadoes, a psychic, clearly psychic.

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Speaker 4: You're not gonna get far without a hypnotherapist. And of

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Speaker 4: course some reporters.

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Speaker 2: I might be I might be on a seat for

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Speaker 2: this one, Okay.

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Speaker 4: And so they start training together to go to go

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Speaker 4: into Lao and to rescue or at least find proof

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Speaker 4: that there's men being held prisoner across the border in Vietnam. Now,

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Speaker 4: prop if you're training a roughly of platoons worth of

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Speaker 4: guys who are already combat veterans, but if you're training

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Speaker 4: them to insert themselves without any support into some of

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Speaker 4: the most dangerous terrain on Earth in order to rescue

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Speaker 4: prisoners from a heavily guarded camp, where would you do

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Speaker 4: that training?

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Speaker 3: I mean caveat would be.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't be doing this training if you were.

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Speaker 4: If you don't, yeah, where would you train these guys

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Speaker 4: to go into Lao?

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Speaker 1: Uh?

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Speaker 2: Somewhere it's similar to loud.

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Speaker 3: That's a good answer. It's close.

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Speaker 4: But if your bogue rights, the place you pick is

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Speaker 4: the American Cheerleading Association Academy in Leesburg, Florida.

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Speaker 3: Obviously, where where would you guys go? Right? You made that.

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Speaker 5: That's not what that's saying, boy in the world, that's

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Speaker 5: what script say.

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Speaker 4: Sun Sue says, know your enemy and know yourself, and

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Speaker 4: you need not fear the result of a thousand battles.

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Speaker 3: I think knows the North Vietnamese.

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Speaker 2: I think he also said Bert.

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Speaker 4: It's so, I was gonna do a bit about how

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Speaker 4: North Vietnam based all of their fighting strategies on cheerleading.

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Speaker 3: But I mean you already took it from me. So

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Speaker 3: we're good. We're good.

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Speaker 1: I was one step ahead.

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Speaker 3: Oh you are just like the cheers, Just like the cheerleaders.

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Speaker 2: Leader's middle name is Lynn.

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Speaker 3: One of boast to get me an idea of the.

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Speaker 2: Callus a throwaway joke, y'all cast that one. Cast that

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Speaker 2: a joke. The middle name is Lynn. He's Kaylee Lynn.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 3: Dang.

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Speaker 4: Sorry, I can't I let it, so I apologize, we should.

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Speaker 4: I should give you an idea of the kind of

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Speaker 4: men that Bo's working with. So one of his volunteers

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Speaker 4: is a guy named Terry Smith. Now Terry is a

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Speaker 4: former Green Beret. So that's good, right, probably want someone

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Speaker 4: with that kind of experience on the team.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 4: Before getting involved in Velvet Hammer, Terry had been training

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Speaker 4: to become a college football player, and he quit spring

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Speaker 4: training to go to Lao with Bow. He told Time

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Speaker 4: when they asked him, why I gave up something I've

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Speaker 4: always wanted. But there were at least a dozen Green

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Speaker 4: Berets on operations in that area in Lao who never

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Speaker 4: got out. When I shoot the first commie, I'm gonna

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Speaker 4: have an orgasm.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna come out.

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Speaker 2: Wait, this is gone off the rails.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I'm gonna come out with a pow or die

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Speaker 4: try and I figure will either go down in history

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Speaker 4: or start World War three. That's a beautiful mind. That's

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Speaker 4: a beautiful mind. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: You need to stay home.

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Speaker 3: You need to not have a gun.

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Speaker 2: He did not have a gun.

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Speaker 4: Look, you know, we could talk about the Second Amendment,

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Speaker 4: but that should get your guns taken away. I feel like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 4: manama arm I'm sorry, yes, absolutely not.

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Speaker 2: This person is unwell.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, very oh you haven't even we haven't not finished

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Speaker 4: with Terry Smith. So that's that's that's the name, Terry,

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Speaker 4: Terry Smith.

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Speaker 3: That's very Terry behavior. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Sorry, if there's any are there any Terry is in

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Speaker 4: the audience, than wow, thank god, thank god.

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Speaker 3: It's a Terry free zone because those motherfuckers.

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Speaker 5: I'm all now, I'm all, there's there's five hundred people

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Speaker 5: in his room and none of y'all are Terry.

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Speaker 3: It's not a real name.

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Speaker 4: That's an interesting stat Yeah, it's a fake name. I

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Speaker 4: think Terry was a CIA plan anyway, especially with that right.

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Speaker 5: Right, that's some very by some like Black's rule energy,

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Speaker 5: you know what I'm saying. So you know, we don't

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Speaker 5: call ourselves there right like we would never write Black's Rule.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm just.

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Speaker 4: Bow's roughly two dozen guys, right, uh Smith, You know

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Speaker 4: this guy we quoted from purportedly a combat veteran, but

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Speaker 4: no one's checking up on that. I say he said

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Speaker 4: he was a Green Beret. All these guys say that

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Speaker 4: they had been. No one's checking.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, No one knows, no one looked, no

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Speaker 3: one asked Terry.

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Speaker 4: These are men who showed up at a cheerleading academy

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Speaker 4: in Florida and said, I'm willing to travel to loud

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Speaker 4: to kill strangers.

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Speaker 3: Like god, they're what they did for it.

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Speaker 5: There might be one of our friends there, maybe our

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Speaker 5: buddies there. I'm just saying, Eric Prince is foaming at

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Speaker 5: the moment, Yeah, beyond foaming, and not just at the mouth.

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Speaker 3: So my mom is here, Hi, Sophie's mom. I'm so.

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Speaker 4: Terry told reporters a lot of beautiful nonsense, not beautiful nonsense,

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Speaker 4: a lot of nonsense. One of his stories that he

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Speaker 4: would tell the news was that when he was in Vietnam,

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Speaker 4: he watched a whole platoon of NBA soldiers stop and

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Speaker 4: cut up a pregnant woman together quote, I wanted to

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Speaker 4: rip their heads off, but I couldn't do nothing about it. Now, look,

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Speaker 4: no side in any war has a monopoly on war crimes.

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Speaker 4: But thirty guys all stopped to cut up a single

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Speaker 4: pregnant woman. It's just not the sort of war crime

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna believe happened unless you have some evidence.

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Speaker 3: Right, that's just a weird move, right. What was the situation?

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Speaker 4: What was the situation where you couldn't do anything? These

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Speaker 4: guys are all occupied and you're just what, like.

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Speaker 3: What are you claiming? What's going on here? Terry?

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Speaker 4: I don't know that said do drink because it is

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Speaker 4: a war crime, So get on it, folks. Now, I

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Speaker 4: think that this is the kind of nonsense that fits

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Speaker 4: in less with what actually happened and more with the

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Speaker 4: fact that all these guys are now telling tall tales

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Speaker 4: about the things that actually happened in order to express

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Speaker 4: their fantasies. And like they're trying to justify the fact

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Speaker 4: that they want to go murder a bunch of strangers

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Speaker 4: in the jungle, right, Like, so you have to tell, like,

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Speaker 4: what's the worst thing I can imagine? Well, this would

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Speaker 4: justify me doing whatever. Right This summary of that Florida

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Speaker 4: gathering by Time Magazine really says a lot. Quote they

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Speaker 4: were just high on the idea adrenaline and the ballad

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Speaker 4: of the Green Berets blaring over the loud speaker at

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Speaker 4: all of them. An ex Special Forces sergeant still embittered

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Speaker 4: about losing his son in Vietnam, and Terry Smith humping

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Speaker 4: a rucksack urging them on suck that clean Florida air.

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Speaker 4: Just just a maniac, All these guys maniacs in their plan.

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Speaker 4: The plan that they're training for is nuts from the

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Speaker 4: jump Bo's idea, We're all going to fly in to

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Speaker 4: allow as tourists, and then we'll rent a house on

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Speaker 4: the Mekong Delta across from Vietnam and we'll pretend to

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Speaker 4: be providing humanitarian aid to Cambodian refugees. We'll get smuggled

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Speaker 4: a bunch of machine guns, which should be easy obviously,

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Speaker 4: and then we'll embed with friendly anti communist guerrillas fighting

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Speaker 4: the Vietnamese state across the border, right, and they'll help

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Speaker 4: us find these POWs.

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Speaker 3: If we're captured.

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Speaker 4: We're going to travel with gold so we can pay

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Speaker 4: our ransoms, and we're going to bring with us just

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Speaker 4: in case, what they called get out of jail free cards.

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Speaker 4: These were self printed IOUs promising one thousand dollars if

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Speaker 4: someone took them in the bearer to a US embassy.

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Speaker 3: The embassies had not agreed to validate these.

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Speaker 4: Of all, these are just I carry one of those

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Speaker 4: in my pocket now, Like, yeah.

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Speaker 5: First of all, the America didn't send you number one

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Speaker 5: and number two. You are going to be robbed immediately immediately.

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Speaker 3: Oh, perhap you've seen where this is going.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So the next part of the plan is once

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Speaker 4: they find a POW camp, we will either break everyone

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Speaker 4: out or we'll take pictures, depending on the situation, and

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Speaker 4: then we'll send the proof back to DC and that'll

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Speaker 4: convince the President to send air support from the seventh Fleet.

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Speaker 4: In right, we will start the war in Vietnam right there.

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Speaker 4: He's gonna immediately call in an air strike and we'll

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Speaker 4: free these guys.

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Speaker 5: Now, bro, this is like pre like this ain't no internet.

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Speaker 5: Like hell, you're gonna call it a president from.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you're gonna call the president from fucking Lao and

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Speaker 4: you're gonna get him to send the seventh Fleet to

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Speaker 4: bomb Vietnam again ten.

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Speaker 3: Years after the war ens.

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Speaker 4: Okay, great, great idea, guys, amazing. And Bo's plan is

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Speaker 4: that like obviously will win a second time, right, Like

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Speaker 4: you know, it's like it's like when you're like playing

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Speaker 4: your brother is something. It's smash brothers and like he

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Speaker 4: like gets you, but he just like he just mashed buttons.

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Speaker 4: You know, he's not gonna mash those buttons the same

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Speaker 4: way again. Vietnam was like that, right, maybe you pick

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Speaker 4: Samus the next time.

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Speaker 3: That was both that was both.

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Speaker 2: Breaks, your brother beating the brakes off you every time.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So unfortunately the money that Bo raised telling pointless

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Speaker 4: lies about his time in Vietnam did not extend past

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Speaker 4: partying in Florida. One member of the group because so

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Speaker 4: they run out of money at the cheerleading academy, and

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Speaker 4: one member of the group, Terry fucking Smith, suggests, Hey, guys,

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Speaker 4: I know I can get some extra money.

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Speaker 3: We're in Florida.

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Speaker 4: It's the eighties. Let's go murder a bunch of coke

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Speaker 4: dealers and take their money.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I fund our trip to Vietnam. Well, allow the

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Speaker 3: coke dealer money.

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Speaker 5: I said to myself. They gonna say they're gonna sell coke,

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Speaker 5: and I was like, Nah, that'd be dumb.

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Speaker 3: No, that'd be dumb. They're gonna take money from coke dealers.

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Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, you gonna rob coke dealers.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, We're gonna start an independent war with the

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Speaker 4: cartels so that we can start an independent war with Vietnam,

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 3: At their base and cheerleading.

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Speaker 4: Cheerleading out of the cheerleading Now, Terry Smith told the

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Speaker 4: Time magazine, if I got to kill one hundred twenty

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Speaker 4: American bad guys to get one hundred POWs out of Vietnam.

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Speaker 3: I'll do it. Of course, Terry absolutely, Terry's that was

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Speaker 3: good Sophie, thank you.

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Speaker 5: Thank you.

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Speaker 4: So operation velvet Hammer worked out about as well as

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Speaker 4: an actual velvet hammer. After this, Bo doesn't give up.

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Speaker 4: That's one thing the military taught him. The military taught

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Speaker 4: him two things. One has how to stick to a plan,

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Speaker 4: and the other is how to not win a war

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Speaker 4: in Vietnam. Right, those are the two things he learns

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Speaker 4: from his surface. So Bo organizes a smaller group to

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Speaker 4: hunt for clues in Thailand. And I have to assume

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Speaker 4: that the word hunt he means smoke and the word

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Speaker 4: clues here stands for ty sticks. Anyway, they find no

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Speaker 4: information about any POW.

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Speaker 3: Because he's just hunting in Thailand.

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Speaker 5: He just shooting out arbitrary countries that are like close

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Speaker 5: to where.

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Speaker 3: You know what we say that actually prop if you guys.

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Speaker 4: Want to donate some money, you know, really really coffin

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Speaker 4: and give deep. I think we could find some po

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Speaker 4: ws in Thailand.

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure we can.

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Speaker 3: We're gon.

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Speaker 4: We're gonna need like six weeks at Lamartian in Bangkok,

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Speaker 4: and I think we can knock it out.

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Speaker 3: I really think we can knock it out. That was

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Speaker 3: a little specific. Yeah, well just one boat.

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Speaker 5: It's just it's just look at it's just one bus

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Speaker 5: into the into the bush, right, but we could stay

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Speaker 5: out there and based in the LA based yeah yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 5: do some do some like mental health work.

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Speaker 2: And look, massages this podcast.

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Speaker 4: Aren't all in Intel, but let me tell you as

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Speaker 4: a CIA man, all of the good, all of the

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Speaker 4: real information comes from massage artists there are. So my

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Speaker 4: plan is to get like eight hours of massages a day, right,

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Speaker 4: and that then I'll figure out where all of the

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Speaker 4: prisoners are, Sovie. It's a good idea, and most of

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Speaker 4: them most of them speak English, right, I don't know. Also,

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Speaker 4: as a side note, as I've been sitting here, I

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Speaker 4: thought Velvet Hammer also sounds like a Prince album.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that would be a pretty good name of a Prince.

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Speaker 2: Album album anyway.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, also not a bad band name anyway.

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Speaker 2: Are they not out.

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Speaker 1: Of money completely at this point?

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Speaker 3: Well, they're continuing.

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Speaker 4: Well, actually we'll talk about who's giving them money, because

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Speaker 4: that's fun, Sophie, that's really fun. So both keeps raising

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Speaker 4: money and public awareness of us POW's that are definitely

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Speaker 4: still trapped in Vietnam. He succeeds in securing several high

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Speaker 4: profile celebrity donations wait, who.

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Speaker 3: Do you think it is?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, give me, give me two names, Kissinger.

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Speaker 4: No celebrity celebrities like movies, celebrity movies, star, movie or TV.

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Speaker 5: I was like, I was like John Wayne Robert Redford, who.

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Speaker 4: Is not a TV star or a movie star at

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Speaker 4: this point in time.

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Speaker 2: But you're not there yet.

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Speaker 3: No, yeah, he said Eastwood.

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Speaker 4: Clint Eastwood sends thirty thousand dollars and allegedly promised to

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Speaker 4: get Ronald Reagan's blessing Clinton allegedly, Bo says Clint said,

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Speaker 4: if you can find proof of a pow, I'll make

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Speaker 4: sure Reagan sends in an air strike.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if Clint Eastwood did other than he

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Speaker 4: definitely sent the money, right, and then no one's gonna

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Speaker 4: guess this. William Shatner donated to be fair to our boy,

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Speaker 4: Bill Shantner sends ten grand if in exchange for the

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Speaker 4: rights to Grits to Bo rights his life.

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Speaker 3: Okay, right, Bill's got an angle.

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Speaker 5: We know Captain Kirk knows what he's expects, actually respect,

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Speaker 5: you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: I think ten is a hilarious amount for his life.

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Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, So the money that they raise is enough

355
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Speaker 4: that in November of nineteen eighty two, both finally succeeds

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Speaker 4: in taking a commando team to Lao, where the most

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Speaker 4: obvious thing happens, and I want to quote from Bruce Franklin's.

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Speaker 3: Book Mia here.

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Speaker 4: Almost as soon as they arrived in Lao, they were ambushed, routed,

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Speaker 4: and forced.

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Speaker 3: To flee as fast as they could back to Thailand.

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Speaker 4: The ambushers, contrary to their initial assumptions, were not even

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Speaker 4: treacherous Communists, but a rival anti communists Layotian group whom Grits'

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Speaker 4: men had offended in Thailand, and to whom Grits, ironically enough,

365
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Speaker 4: reportedly had to pay seventeen five hundred dollars ransom to

366
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Speaker 4: recover a captured American team mate. The raiders, of course,

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Speaker 4: encountered no POWs. Now there's a couple of things about this.

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Speaker 4: First off, they did kind of succeed in rescuing a POWs, yes,

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Speaker 4: today did they bring that pow with them, yes, but

370
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Speaker 4: they did save him uh seconds.

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Speaker 2: That is glorious.

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Speaker 4: It's time for another drink because also two of his

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Speaker 4: local Laotian guides die in the ambush, which is very sad.

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Speaker 4: Although you have to imagine the guys who are taking

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Speaker 4: him into the jungle.

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Speaker 3: Probably not great, right, the dudes who were working with

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Speaker 3: this guy, I don't know anyway, that's said, still said,

378
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:19,240
Speaker 3: take a drink.

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Speaker 2: That is so funny.

380
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Speaker 3: So not the debt, not the deaths.

381
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Speaker 4: But the fact that they immediately get ambushed from me

382
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Speaker 4: and ransom.

383
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Speaker 3: Super funny.

384
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Speaker 4: Now, if you're keeping track, the only American captive they've

385
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Speaker 4: encountered is someone they brought with them. But the very

386
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,040
Speaker 4: next month, Bo tries again flying to Thailand and renting

387
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Speaker 4: one thousand dollars a month safe house and one thousand

388
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Speaker 4: dollars a month in the nineteen eighties, that is a

389
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Speaker 4: nice fucking safe house.

390
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Speaker 2: Lot of money.

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Speaker 4: Again, prop we could find some information A thousand dollars

392
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,640
Speaker 4: amount of money today you're staying in a night, well

393
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Speaker 4: thousand a month.

394
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Speaker 3: I don't know.

395
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Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll see safe houses, you know, they're on a

396
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Speaker 4: sliding scale. So one of those the comrades claims to

397
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Speaker 4: have totally seen bad guys across the border drilling with weapons. Sure,

398
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 4: maybe like it's Vietnam they have an army now, like

399
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Speaker 4: like they're they're their country, right, like they're allowed to

400
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 4: do that.

401
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,400
Speaker 3: He's like, I was so angry. I couldn't fight them.

402
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 3: It's their country. What are you doing over there? UK? Yeah?

403
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 2: He flew all the way from Florida.

404
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:26,919
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, well presumably from Florida. Yeah. So uh.

405
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,880
Speaker 4: Bo's last attempt was in the spring of nineteen eighty three,

406
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Speaker 4: and it ended when ty police immediately arrested two of

407
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Speaker 4: his commandos for possession of illegal radio transmitters.

408
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Speaker 5: So did nobody ask God a komfam? No one wants

409
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 5: you hear you did not need to be here.

410
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,719
Speaker 4: Okay, this is not a success by any definition, but

411
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Speaker 4: it got attention. People do pay attention to what Bo

412
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Speaker 4: is doing. He gets hauled before Congress in March of

413
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Speaker 4: nineteen eighty three. Now, Congress had concluded, as I said

414
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Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy six, that there were no more POWs

415
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 4: being held by Vietnam. So Bo was asked, what evidence

416
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 4: do you have to counter these conclusions? And Bo answers,

417
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,919
Speaker 4: I have the same evidence that might be presented to

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Speaker 4: a convention of clergymen that God exists.

419
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 3: So like non the wait, so that's.

420
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Speaker 2: Not a bar that's not a bar man.

421
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 4: I'm not I'm not anti you know, faith or whatever,

422
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 4: But we don't invade countries based on what.

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00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 3: We do actually a lot, you know all the time.

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Speaker 4: That's actually often why we okay, point to bow.

425
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 2: Now.

426
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 4: In another interview, one of Bo's former volunteers, Tom Smith,

427
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 4: said of Grits, I wouldn't cross the street with this guy.

428
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 4: He's suffering from the early stages of burning a bush

429
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Speaker 4: complex which, first off, it's not burning a bush. I

430
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 4: don't understand why he said it that way. That's a

431
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 4: real it's a burning bush.

432
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not burning. Maybe he's saying he was lighting

433
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 3: a bush on fire, like fake it. I guess that

434
00:21:58,760 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 3: could be good.

435
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,439
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe I'm slaying. We just don't know.

436
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 3: Maybe.

437
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is there more important things here continue?

438
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 3: Sure, yes, man.

439
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 4: Now the attention that Bo drew mattered though to someone, well,

440
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 4: to a group Hollywood. Bo's story inspired and did legitimately

441
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 4: inspire Rambo First Blood Part two, in which John Rambo

442
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 4: was sent to a secret US base in Thailand to

443
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 4: invade Vietnam on his own and rescue Po W's uh.

444
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,920
Speaker 4: There's other movies that were inspired by bos story, Chuck

445
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 4: Norris's Missing in Action series and the Gene Hackman film

446
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 4: Uncommon Valor rip Gene were also inspired by Bo's fantasies

447
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 4: of rescuing POW's overseas.

448
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 3: And here's my favorite side fact.

449
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 4: The character Hannibal Smith on the A Team, inspired partly

450
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 4: by both Yeah and the real Number one. The real

451
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 4: Hannibal would have found those pore absolutely number two kitty

452
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 4: dimples absolutely absolutely.

453
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,680
Speaker 3: M sorry, I do love the A Team.

454
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 2: You can tell Prop said to have a drink. This

455
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 2: was like this was like he poured this like a glass.

456
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 3: It was a thick, poor like shout.

457
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,159
Speaker 2: Out whoever, like, yeah, you're trying to put me up.

458
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 4: It was busy, thick is the Sea four necklace around

459
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 4: that guy's.

460
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 3: So what, I didn't do it?

461
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: You're supposed to say, no, yeah, no.

462
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 3: All right, everybody, do you drink?

463
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 4: So after nineteen eighty three, Bow seems to have largely

464
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 4: and quietly given up on his plans to rescue these

465
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 4: totally real uspows. In order to become an influencer in

466
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 4: the growing militia movement, he joined the Mormon Church.

467
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 3: Start in a.

468
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 2: Direct no, no, you gotta wait.

469
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 3: For the sentence to finish.

470
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 4: Start in a direct to video ripoff of Charlie's Angels

471
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 4: called Rescue force, I know what everyone's Watchington night, And

472
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 4: in nineteen eighty eight agreed to run as the vice

473
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 4: presidential candidate for the Populist Party.

474
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 3: Anybody know the Populist Party? Anybody heard of these guys? Well,

475
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,199
Speaker 3: they were the political party of a group called the

476
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 3: Liberty Lobby, which.

477
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 4: Was founded by a guy we've talked about on Behind

478
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 4: the Bastards, a Holocaust denier and Hitler fan, Willis Carto.

479
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,439
Speaker 3: Right there we go, Yeah, Willie.

480
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 4: Willis Carto is like, I mean, he is like the

481
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 4: grandfather of American fascism as an organized political movement that

482
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 4: is like working within like mainstream conservatism and attempting to

483
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 4: radicalize and influence mainstream conservatism. Right, Carto is the guy.

484
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 4: He was the dude who was a lot smarter than

485
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 4: like the neo Nazis. He was like, no, no, no, no, no, no,

486
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 4: you got to you gotta dress this shit up a

487
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 4: little bit if you're gonna do it. And Carto sees

488
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 4: Bo and he's like karas mad war hero, good at

489
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 4: getting media attention, and Carto kind of scouts him to

490
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 4: be the VP candidate.

491
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 3: Right.

492
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 4: Bo says that he was poached directly by Willis carto,

493
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 4: although Bo would then later claim that he was shocked

494
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 4: and appalled when at that year's convention for the Populist

495
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 4: Party the presidential nomination was won by another fellow you

496
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 4: might have heard of, David Duke.

497
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 5: I'll tell you what, man, this cartoon guy must be

498
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 5: really smiling in hell right now.

499
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 3: Oh, he's having a great time.

500
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 2: He's having a great time. Yeah.

501
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 3: Now. I will say this in interviews because Bo.

502
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 4: Writes, as with other parts of his life, it gives

503
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 4: two different stories, the one that he gives at the

504
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 4: time and the one that he gives years later.

505
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 3: When people ask years later, he will be like, oh,

506
00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 3: I was.

507
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 4: Horrified the instant I heard that, uh that uh, David

508
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 4: Duke was the presidential candidate.

509
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 3: Within forty eight hours, I'd resigned.

510
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 4: I was not I would absolutely never have have worked

511
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 4: with with such a racist at the time. In news

512
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 4: articles written immediately afterwards, Bo said he was okay with

513
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 4: working with Duke because he met with David Duke and

514
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 4: made him promise solemn sweat promise not to be a

515
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 4: racist in the campaign, in the campaign not to have

516
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 4: a racist campaign, and David Duke said it wasn't going

517
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 4: to be a racist campaign.

518
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 3: What more can you ask?

519
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 2: You know, he said he wasn't going to do it.

520
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 3: Seems sounds fine to me.

521
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 4: Man by his word, he promised a klansman's problem.

522
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 3: Okay, well yeah, alright, Jesus Christ.

523
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 4: So the good news is that after they lost, Bo

524
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 4: complained to Christ.

525
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 2: Well you could stop that sentence right there.

526
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 3: The good news is that they lost.

527
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 4: They lost for now, yeah yeah right, let's not think

528
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 4: too much about what's happening on. Yeah, yeah, So the

529
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 4: good news is that Bo complained after they lost to

530
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 4: Willis Carte that David Duke did quote more harm to

531
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 4: the Populist Party than Hitler would have. Now, okay, this this,

532
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 4: I'm gonna give you a second. This kind of insinuates

533
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 4: to me that Bo would have been okay with running

534
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 4: as the VP for Hitler.

535
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 2: Literally a bit.

536
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 5: At first, I was like, okay, let him cook, let

537
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 5: me like what are you trying to say here? Like

538
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 5: help me understand? And yeah, because my first thought was yeah,

539
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 5: like so you you.

540
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 3: Might you might have run with Hitler if he'd promised

541
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 3: not to run a racist.

542
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 2: Campongs Hitler, don't do a racist campaign.

543
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 4: Hitler's on his best behavior. We can go to Olive Garden. Sorry,

544
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 4: I don't know why or will Golden correct?

545
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 3: Are you hungry or something?

546
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 2: What's happening?

547
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 4: I just think Hitler and Olive Garden is a funny image, Sophie,

548
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,160
Speaker 4: because when you're there, your family.

549
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 2: So bro you are on a roll today.

550
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 3: You think he was a super solad guy. I think

551
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 3: salad he was.

552
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 5: Canonically he salad in unlimited bread sticks. That man is

553
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 5: not ordering a place.

554
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 4: I'm actually in the in the audience is a very

555
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 4: dear friend of mine who we decided at some at

556
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 4: one point I'm not really sure why to come in

557
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 4: at Olive Garden one day on a Tuesday, the very

558
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 4: minute they opened at nine or ten in the morning. Now,

559
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 4: we were both wearing skirts that we'd sown each other,

560
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 4: and we both had T shirts that had our favorite

561
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 4: conspiracy theory on them. I do forget what mine was,

562
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 4: but he just said Michael Jackson was murdered written on

563
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 4: the front of a white T shirt and sharpie and we.

564
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 3: Proceeded a.

565
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 4: Now, the reason why we showed up is Olive Garden

566
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 4: sells three liter bottles of wine, so we ordered two

567
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 4: of them, and then we nothing but six leaders of

568
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 4: wine and breadsticks and the experiment because we also brought

569
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 4: with us a big roll of butcher paper, and we

570
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 4: started outlining the conspiracies that we like believed ruled the world.

571
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 4: So we were drawing like a big flow chart talking

572
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 4: about the Freemasons and all of these different conspiracies. And

573
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 4: the goal was when will they stop serving us breadsticks?

574
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, And eventually it.

575
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 4: Did go to the point where we got half a

576
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 4: breadstick on a plate and I was like, yeah, it's

577
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 4: probably time to bounce.

578
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 5: Hey. Let me ask, that is, as we ask, that is,

579
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 5: as fans at his show, how many times have you

580
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 5: thought to yourself.

581
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 2: How does this man survived? Like how are you still alive?

582
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 2: I'll be thinking that, like, like, are you still alive?

583
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 3: I will say.

584
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 4: As soon as we got back to my house, my

585
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 4: friend who was in the audience vomited so much on

586
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 4: the floor I almost made it to the toilet. So

587
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 4: I'm just bragging a little bit pretty close, not at all,

588
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 4: not at all, but like literally like three and a

589
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 4: half fet further anyway, back to the story, So.

590
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 3: The good news is well not the good news.

591
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,239
Speaker 4: He runs again in nineteen ninety two, this time as

592
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 4: the presidential candidate, for the Populist Party, and he does

593
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 4: twice as well as David Duke, winning point one percent

594
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 4: of the national popular vote to Duke's point zero five, So,

595
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 4: you know, not bad.

596
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 3: That same year ninety two, Bo played what would be

597
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 3: arguably his.

598
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 4: One positive role in US political culture, which is when

599
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 4: he kind of ended the Ruby Ridge Standoff. So, if

600
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 4: you're vaguely familiar, there's this guy, Randy Weaver and his

601
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 4: friends in the Area Nations. He gets paid by a

602
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 4: dude who turns out to be an ATF agent to

603
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 4: saw off some shotguns and then they raid his house

604
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 4: and an agent is shot dead by I forget which

605
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 4: member of his group killed the agent, but an ATF

606
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 4: agent's killed, and the ATF kills his young son who's

607
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 4: a child, and his wife, right, and a big state

608
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 4: is called Ruby Ridge Huge standoff. It's like it's a

609
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 4: seminal moment in the fucking militia movement. It's a big deal.

610
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 4: And because Grits is a really famous figure in the

611
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 4: militia movement, he gets like the he basically I think

612
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 4: he reaches out directly to the FEDS actually, but anyway,

613
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 4: he winds up flown in and talks to Randy Weaver

614
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 4: and talks Weaver down and the siege ends without further

615
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,719
Speaker 4: loss of life. This is a legitimate thing that BO did,

616
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 4: and it's good, right, It's good that more people because

617
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 4: Bo had or Randy had his kids. Like I'm not

618
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 4: I don't care that much about Randy, but he had

619
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 4: another kid, right, like, you don't want them to die,

620
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 4: and that's good.

621
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 3: This is the only good thing that BO does. But

622
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 3: he did do that.

623
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 4: Now, because Randy Weaver had some close ties to the

624
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 4: Aryan Nations, and because Grits's nineteen ninety two campaign was

625
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 4: seen as a watershed moment for white supremacists in the US.

626
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 3: BO was accused of himself being a racist. Can you

627
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 3: believe it?

628
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 2: Now?

629
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 4: Idaho State University professor James Aho told the SPLC, the

630
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 4: Southern Poverty Law Center that as far as he could see,

631
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 4: Grits wasn't quote an out and out racist, and Grits

632
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 4: himself repeatedly emphasized that he had two Asian American children,

633
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 4: so he couldn't racist.

634
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 2: Now, of course he did the nim huts.

635
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 3: He was in that hut. Yeah, the nim Huts. Yeah,

636
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 3: UK be racist. You and nim huts.

637
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 2: The hell are we talking about now?

638
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 4: I think it's accurate to say that Bo's primary motivation

639
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 4: wasn't white supremacy, But it's kind of weird to say

640
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 4: that he wasn't an out and out racist, given some

641
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 4: comments he made about people of the Jewish faith per

642
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 4: the SBLC earlier this year. This is two thousand and five,

643
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 4: I think. In a lengthy diatribe falsely a legend Jewish

644
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 4: control of the media and financial institutions, he wrote, why

645
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 4: is there such an intense effort toward Jewish control? I

646
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 4: don't think it is right for such a small interest,

647
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 4: special interest group to control our nation.

648
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 3: Oldest man, he's still alive.

649
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 2: God, Yeah, I know.

650
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 3: It's a bummer. Dang it.

651
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 5: Man.

652
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 4: Elsewhere, he wrote, do you see the sign, the synth,

653
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,479
Speaker 4: the stained and mark of the Beast on America today?

654
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 4: Are you willing to submit and join this seed line

655
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 4: of Satan? Look to those who are openly Antichrist. Who

656
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 4: in the world is promoting abortion, pornography, pedophilia, godless laws, adultery,

657
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 4: new age, international banking, entertainment industry, and world publishing.

658
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 3: Wherever you find a.

659
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 4: Perversion of God's laws, you will find the worshippers of Ball.

660
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 3: With their roots still in Babylonian mysticism. What are you

661
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 3: talking about? He's not an out and out racist.

662
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 5: This man named it just even his racism being just broken,

663
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 5: this man naming all the enemies right of the Israelites.

664
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying, I'm looking, look.

665
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 4: I grew up at your well he's he is arguing

666
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 4: that that's Judaism is worshiping Ball.

667
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 3: That's the That's what I'm trying to say.

668
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 2: I'm like bras near mind.

669
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 4: We all need to with Bo rights on theology. But

670
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 4: the point of it is that, like I mean to

671
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 4: be fair in rural Idaho. That is kind of middle

672
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 4: of the road racism.

673
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 3: Right, Like he's not an extremist for rural Idaho. Trial right.

674
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 1: Yeah.

675
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 4: In January of nineteen ninety three, after losing his second

676
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 4: presidential election, Bo pivoted to a new grift.

677
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 3: He started Spike S p I k E.

678
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 4: It's I know He's Spike is A was a training

679
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 4: program that stood for especially prepared individuals for key events.

680
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 2: That means nothing. So worried I was about to say,

681
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 2: like Spike TV.

682
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,919
Speaker 3: No, yeah, he found it. Spiked. He spiked I was like, yeah,

683
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 3: So the idea was he was.

684
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 4: Bringing in experts to teach classes that would turn regular

685
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 4: You could like order VHS tapes off the Internet and

686
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 4: it will turn you into a Special Forces operator if

687
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 4: you're watching.

688
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 3: Off of them.

689
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 4: Right, That's all that's standing in between you and being

690
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 4: a Navy seal is watching enough VHS tapes.

691
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 3: That's actually true. By the VHS tape cassette series.

692
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 4: I've got going on, I don't know what to call it.

693
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 4: I didn't think of an acronym. Sorry anyway, Spike winds

694
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 4: up ultimately building a video library of about one hundred

695
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 4: hours of content that they would ship to anyone willing

696
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,439
Speaker 4: to pay. Now, by the early nineties, BO had also

697
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 4: relocated to the Pacific Northwest, where.

698
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 3: We all call home.

699
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 4: A yeah, because this is coincidentally right around the same

700
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 4: time as the so called Northwest Imperative really kits going.

701
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 4: This is the idea of moving white people on Moss

702
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 4: to this part of the country in order to create

703
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 4: a new white homeland. Now it starts to really pick

704
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 4: up It doesn't start. This starts to really pick up

705
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 4: steam in the nineties, right, and coincidentally, this is also

706
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 4: when Bow launches a new business venture.

707
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 3: So the car I'm telling you.

708
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 4: He sells parcels of land in an intentional community for

709
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 4: members of the militia movement called Almost Heaven.

710
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:10,839
Speaker 1: Stop letting him name things.

711
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 4: Billed as a constitutional covenant community, Almost Heaven was a

712
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 4: way to take the underlying ideology of the Northwest Imperative

713
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 4: and extend it beyond stock Nazism to something palatable for

714
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 4: a wider but still far right audience. He claimed to

715
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 4: have picked the location by studying maps of nuclear fallout

716
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 4: and military bases to determine the safest place in America. Wow,

717
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 4: I think it's where the land was cheapest. He announced

718
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 4: the start of this new venture by crashing a Camea

719
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 4: town hall meeting in nineteen ninety four and declaring the

720
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,720
Speaker 4: public school system a cesspool and in accusing the local

721
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 4: government of being run by and then he uses a

722
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 4: slur for gay people. It starts with f Local resident

723
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 4: and activist Larry Nims later claimed rights came here and

724
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 4: made a lot of noise. He told people that if

725
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 4: they didn't like him, then get out of Dodge. And

726
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 4: I'm thinking, who is he to tell people around here

727
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 4: to get out of Dodge. He didn't even live in

728
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 4: Dodge yet. And Nims, my heart goes at Nims is

729
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 4: like a progressive activist in rural Idaho in the early

730
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 4: nineties who's like we'll talk about like bo is the

731
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 4: one who brought a lot of guys with guns out here, right,

732
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 4: Like this has not not been a problem before him,

733
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 4: but he really makes like the current state of affairs

734
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 4: is seriously influenced by.

735
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 3: Rights, right, Yeah, so I'm just learning.

736
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, the Arean Nations had been out in Hayden Lake previously,

737
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 4: so it's not entirely undergrites. But he does play a

738
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 4: significant role in this because of how famous.

739
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 5: He is, right, I still just wonder and it's like

740
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 5: this this sounds like a joke, but I'm like dead serious.

741
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 2: I'm like, man, what what do they eat?

742
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 3: I'm like na saying, oh, no, guys.

743
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 5: Well, but like if you're gonna make an almost seven,

744
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 5: because I'm like you can say so, yeah, so I

745
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 5: used to live in then I lived in Poorland a

746
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:02,439
Speaker 5: while back, you know what I'm saying.

747
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:07,479
Speaker 2: But like I mean just like the Double Dragon Joint

748
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 2: with the like the this pop park, Like I'm like,

749
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 2: there's so many good places.

750
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 3: To eat here.

751
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 2: I'm like, you don't want that?

752
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 4: Like, no, No, he's living in the woods eating dried

753
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 4: food that he bought off of Uh what's his name? Baker,

754
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 4: the fucking uh weirdo weird Yeah, Jim Jim Baker very

755
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 4: much recently Why a.

756
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 3: Movie by the way about him that came out Andrew Garfield. Good,

757
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 3: Why you.

758
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 2: Haven't got no like Old Bay like just right seasons.

759
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 4: That's why it's almost Heaven, Almost almost Heaven. They forgot

760
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 4: the season, so wow, almost Haven worked for a little while. Unfortunately,

761
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 4: Bow and his business partner made the bad decision to

762
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 4: buy their land is a common law trust and I

763
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 4: don't know a lot about this, but the way in

764
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 4: which they did this made it very difficult for their

765
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 4: customers to get titles, basically impossible. They couldn't get titles

766
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 4: to their property in their names, and they couldn't get

767
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,280
Speaker 4: property insurance in their own names, which.

768
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 3: Is a problem.

769
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 4: A flurry of lawsuits followed by people who thought that

770
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 4: they had been conned pretty true accurately, and problems escalated

771
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 4: as contractors started suing Grites and his business partner for

772
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 4: failing to pay for road construction and other infrastructure work.

773
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 3: They kind of took a leaf out of the Trump book.

774
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 5: Yeah.

775
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 4: The slow collapse of Almost Heaven was escalated both by

776
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 4: incompetence like this and the fact that more than anything,

777
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 4: Bo wanted to make money, not fund to right wing

778
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:37,919
Speaker 4: revolution and a lot of his critics on the riot

779
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 4: are like, Bo, aren't you making the army that's going

780
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 4: to like liberate us?

781
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 5: No?

782
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 3: Oh.

783
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 4: So the other problem is that Bo keeps taking calls

784
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 4: aar at the late nineties from the FBI to try

785
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 4: and talk down militia groups like the Montana Freemen, which

786
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,280
Speaker 4: ultimately alienated.

787
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 3: His third wife, Claudia, a former karate instructor.

788
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 2: Did I miss the second wife?

789
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 3: Yeah? That was the that was the lady he met

790
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 3: the sex worker Na.

791
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 4: That did shockingly didn't last. No, who knew marriages that

792
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 4: start in Vietnam?

793
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 3: Yeah?

794
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 2: Stay, yeah, that's a good one.

795
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 3: So like all those POWs. By the end of nineteen

796
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 3: ninety eight, that was good.

797
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 2: That was very good.

798
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 4: By the end of nineteen ninety eight, Bo's business partner

799
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 4: had stolen nearly all of the money made by Almost Heaven,

800
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 4: and Claudia left him after twenty four years of marriage.

801
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: Why you did twenty for twenty four in May.

802
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: A while he stuck it out.

803
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 4: Boat tempted suicide by shooting himself in the chest in

804
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 4: December of nineteen ninety eight.

805
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 3: But he survived and it's still alive today. God, I

806
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 3: don't have a happy ending here.

807
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 4: He did shoot himself again for whatever reason. A through

808
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 4: line in this guy's story is people shooting themselves in

809
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 4: weird ways.

810
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 3: But chest.

811
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I'm not trying to backseat kill Bogue rights

812
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 4: to Bogue rights. But however, however, it is all right.

813
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 4: That concludes the Behind the Bastards episodes.

814
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 2: Gee.

815
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

816
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

817
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

818
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the

819
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday

820
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash

821
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: at Behind the Bastards