WEBVTT - Colleges Embrace a Post-SAT Future 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.840 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all purtnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.160 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.000 analysts in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.479 Bloomberg Business Weekend iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. You 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:25.439 can also listen to our radio show at two pm 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:27.880 Eastern Time on the Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.960 YouTube search Bloomberg clovel News shutting down again. I do 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.440 feel like that's our theme right now. More companies and 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:36.760 even cities telling workers in an individuals to stay home 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:39.479 city group we mentioned telling staffers here in the New 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:41.680 York City metro area to work from home again through 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:44.000 the holidays if they can. Starting the recent rise in 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:47.040 COVID nineteen cases in the region, and then we saw 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:48.840 what I think, almost half of workers in the city 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:51.440 of London not going to the office on Monday. What 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:53.560 does it mean for for here? Well? In New York City. 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:55.680 The Health Commissioner said that COVID nineteen data show a 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:58.560 quote alarming trend and predicted a further increase in the 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:01.160 case curve. Yeah, it's it's just kind of where we are. 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:04.920 That's the snapshot. Hey, let's get some thoughts on the 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:07.959 current headlines and where we are as well. Ruth Aaden 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:10.960 is a founder of the Johns Hopkins Berman Institute of Bioethics, 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:14.040 Professor of Biomedical Ethics at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:16.800 Public Health, which is supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, Founder, 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.960 Bloomberg LP, and Bloomberg Philanthropies. She joins us on this 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:23.720 Thursday from Martha's vineyard. Um, Dr Payden, nice to have 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:27.040 you here back with us. How are you? I'm buying 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:29.160 Carol and nice to be with you and Kim again. 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:32.240 So you do look at what's going on the pandemic, 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:37.479 um through an you know, ethics or bioethics lens. Having 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:40.280 said that, Um, what does that say to you right 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:43.000 now in terms of rolling out the vaccine? Where we 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:48.160 are in the pandemic seeing you know, another rise in cases? Yes? Well, 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:50.480 what it takes to me? I think three chief things. 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:54.280 The first is that we should not panic. We have 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:57.720 the tools in the toolbox and we know what to do. 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:01.920 So from the stample in each of these individuals, it's 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.000 the same message, the same message to the same message, 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:09.200 and get vaccinated, encourage other people to be vaccinated, get 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:11.840 boosters if you're eligible and live in the United States, 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:16.000 be more broadly eligible, and wear masks and indoor spaces 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:20.000 whether they're required or not. So that's the messaging. Now, 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:27.080 that's number one. Number two, remember that we are concerned 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:32.520 not about everyone equally, but about some people, especially so 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:37.760 for those of us who are under sixty five, who 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:43.720 are otherwise healthy, who's been fully vaccinated. This, especially if 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:47.600 we get our boosters, this should not be a particularly 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:52.760 difficult way. But but for people who don't hit that description, 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.520 this is not a nothing and we've been talking about 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:00.639 how it produces mild disease, but it probably produces so spectrum. 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:04.240 We're just adar to be. We're older Americans and people 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:09.120 at high risk an ethics matter, Get vascinated and protect 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:12.800 yourself again around higher risk people. What's interesting because yesterday 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:15.600 Drew Armstrong, senior editor for US Healthcare here at Bloomberg News, 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:17.960 had the big take talking about hospitals in Kentucky that 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:20.160 I have been under strained in the idea that when 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:22.919 a hospital does go under strain, that other people are affected, 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:25.480 even if they are irrespective of COVID. Right, if you 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:28.000 have a car accident, you can't get care. So that's 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:29.760 from an ethical perspective too, So we've been thinking a 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:31.760 lot about that. What about from the perspective of the 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.920 United States having access to boosters when many people around 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:36.840 the world don't even have access to that first shot? 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:39.200 And I got a lot of flak when I when 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:40.800 I sat on Twitter that I was that I was 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:43.280 boosted because somebody who listens to the show a lot 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:45.440 got in touch and and essentially tweeted at me and said, 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:47.040 how did it feel to get a booster when people 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:49.480 are in the world haven't gotten their first shot? What 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:52.480 are the ethics all right? So, Tim, that feels awful. 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:55.240 So when answer to the person who went back at you, 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:57.360 of course it feels awful. And I have for a 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:00.480 long time been in the camp saying we need to 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:04.280 concentrate on making sure that we have an equitable global 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.880 distribution of vaccine, and we are so far from that 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.920 it isn't even funny. We are now in a kind 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:15.160 of ethics tragedy of our own making. If we had 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:20.599 been more committed to global equity from the beginning, we 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:24.000 would not be in the terrible situation of being faced 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:28.920 with a strain that really does appear to require a 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.920 third dose to get back to the kinds of protection 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:35.960 we have had previously, when, as it's just rightly said, 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:40.080 there are large plots of the world's population who have 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:45.120 the ac their first dose. This is an unconscionable situation. Yeah, 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:48.760 I feel like there's no easy answer, no right answer, um, 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.159 or maybe no wrong. I don't know. I just I 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.600 think most people would say right, if you can get it. 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:55.760 I mean I felt that way in the early on 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:58.920 getting the booster. I wasn't I was able to get it, 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.640 but I've felt like I wasn't the most vulnerable, and 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:04.040 so I backed off and canceled an appointment, and then 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:06.359 you know, a couple of weeks later, it was like, 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:08.920 go get it if you can. And so I think 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.440 we're all finding our way through it, um, and we 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:15.280 know the arguments about getting political. Uh, what's your visibility 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:19.039 about maybe where we are six months from now, I'm curious. 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:20.960 It does feel like we're better than where we were 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:24.320 one year ago. I'm unclear about where we will be 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:27.520 one year from now. Um, how do you see it? All? Right? 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:29.440 Don't we say two things social on the point you 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:31.560 just raised, it all from the from the standpoint of 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:36.320 some individual ethics. Right now, it just is the fact 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:39.800 that vaccine that is being offered as muster doses to 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:44.840 Americans will not be sent to people outside of this country, right, 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:49.160 they will not, Right, So go ahead and get your 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:54.000 booster shot. At the same time, advocate advocate advocate well, 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:59.480 greater involvement, greater investment on the part of our government 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:02.880 in meeting the goal of global equity. So do both. 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:06.760 That's on that first point. Anybody who tells you where 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:10.520 we are going to be six months from now, good 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:15.400 luck to them, my cology. Your second point, But there 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:21.080 are some sitelines. I mean, with all humidity, humility, I mean, 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:24.120 like everybody be humble here, right right. I listened a 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.200 lot and work a lot with colleagueses, wh show and 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:32.359 US policy levels. With any luck, with any luck, we 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.240 will be in a much better situation which respect to 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:39.480 global vaccine and supply by first and second quarters of 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.720 two fingers crossed. Dr Ruth Faden have a safe and 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.600 happy holiday season, founder of the Bourbon Institute of Bioethics 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:48.520 at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. You're 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:52.560 listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:56.600 Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Remember Tim, we 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:58.479 talked about this story this week about how colleges are 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.839 embracing a post pandemic future that increasingly does not include 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.360 those standardized tests like the S A T. Yeah, where 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:07.000 was this twenty years ago? That's what I'm wondering. Oh, yeah, really, 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.400 we'll do like guys, anyway, let's get to it. Um, 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.119 she's got this story. More Bloomberg News Higher Education finance 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:15.360 reporter Janet Lauren on the phone in New York City. Janet, 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.040 good to have you here. So our S A T 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:21.040 standardized testing, I mean, are we looking at a world 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:25.040 where they may just go away completely? Well, we've been 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:28.600 seeing announcements in the last couple of months that, um, 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:32.680 you know, are continuing these trends of S A T optional. Uh. 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.240 It started, of course during the pandemic when kids could 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:38.120 not get to test centers to take the test. UM 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:42.240 Stanford announced the last month that current juniors wouldn't have 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.840 to submit them. And also some of the some of 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:51.240 the optional um requirements have gone to sophomores like Columbia 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:55.640 and Cornell, and Amer said current sophomores don't have to 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.560 submit them. And also several graduate schools are saying, you know, 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.560 you don't have to submit testing as well. So, you know, 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:05.239 once you've had these optional requirements for years and years 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:07.720 and years in the University of Chicago has been test 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:11.720 options kind of hard to go back for these schools. 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:15.200 And really the biggest influence is the University of California 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.520 system with in those three hundred thousand students and if 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.200 a large number of kids who live in California not 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:23.960 taking them, you know, how do you say, well, just 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:28.040 for us take the test? Huh? Well, okay, So what 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.560 does this mean for how college is sort? And I 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:33.240 think of the sorting hat and Harry Potter, because that's 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:35.560 not something that these colleges have, right, you don't find 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.960 out where you're going. And one way that colleges did 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:42.319 that traditionally was through different metrics, including standardized tests. So 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.600 what are they doing now, especially you sees that are 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:48.240 you know, with so many applicants. Right, Well, they've always 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:51.120 used said they've always said grades are going to be 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.840 the most important. So they want to see what you've 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.680 done in your classes, How have you performed? Are you 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:01.200 taking the most rigorous and um, you know, some schools 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.280 have been sa T optional for a very long time, 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.600 like Bowden College in Maine has been sa T optional 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:10.079 for over fifty years. Um, there's a lot of other 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:13.440 ways to look at an applicant. Um, if you want 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.079 a test proxy, you could still take some AP test, 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:18.560 which I'm sure the college board would would like because 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:26.160 the exactly Um, however, UM, you know it'll be interesting. 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:28.160 You know, how are school is going to look at 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.400 you know, how how are kids using their time? Because 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:34.199 now suddenly if they're not studying for these tests, things 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.240 have a lot more time. And we um, we had 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:39.440 a young woman in our story saying, you know, she 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.800 took it. She did, Okay, it wasn't worth it to 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:45.320 admit it, so she you know, she took more hours 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.959 in her job scooping ice creams. I think colleges will 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:51.079 be interested to see what kids do with all this 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:53.760 extra time and you know they still have to get 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:57.280 good grades. I thought, Um, the last line in the 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:00.840 story was very instructive from the dean of admissions at 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:03.679 the University of Chicagogan, which hasn't required them for years. 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:08.120 You know, it's you know, by not submitting a test score, um, 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:10.280 you know, you can't hide your grades. And if you 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:12.920 have a lot of seeds that's not you know, that 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.439 doesn't give you a proxy for thinking you're going to 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:18.520 get into one of those pots. Janet, is it is 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:21.800 it optional? Is it optional? Or is it don't submit it? 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:23.880 Because I do wonder about when it's optional and if 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:27.000 somebody does submit it, does it give them potentially an edge? 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.120 And just got about thirty seconds. I think if your 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.920 grades are are very strong and your test score is 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.640 very strong, it's not really telling the schools anything different, 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:40.120 all right. It's an interesting trend, right, It's one of 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:42.040 those things that's certainly to coming out of the pandemic 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.800 that has been a much more active and aggressive conversation 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.040 than before. Jannet Lauren, get to hear your voice. I 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:49.599 ran into her up on the link yesterday. It was 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:51.600 so nice to see her. Next time we'll get her 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.600 in the studio. Yeah, exactly, Jennet Lauren, Higher Education, Financial 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:56.880 port up Bloomberg News on the phone from New York City. 0:10:57.679 --> 0:10:59.640 By the time Lag goes to college, I welcome this 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:02.880 to That's all I'm saying. It will be the we'll 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:05.760 think about all the stress, the sorting hat, the sorting hat. Yeah, 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:08.720 he'll be picked by a robot to go to robots 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.480 school to learn how to program robots fingerprint and somehow 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.760 they'll know exactly, like the perfect fit form exactly retinal 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:18.240 retinal like stan something weird. Look, I think that you know, 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.240 this is a source of anxiety for so many people, 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:22.360 and they're also like all the all the big studies 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.120 about bias, right, you know, who can afford to actually 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.120 prep for these things? But as you and I said, okay, 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:30.040 so what if it's more important the essay wealth Your 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.679 kids can maybe afford somebody to help them write it. 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:38.240 It's just a weird process. Great, This is Bloomberg. This 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:42.600 is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:46.319 Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. How many times have you 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.320 talked to this dude today? This is my third time, 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:50.640 that's only going to be my second. I mean I 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.800 could go all day with Mike Reagan. I agree, I agree, 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.400 all right, folks. The cover story of business Week magazine, 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.720 it's a takeover the finance section, actually really taking over, 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:02.800 uh this particular coverage. It's a detail look at a 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.880 year that's our market headlines dominated by retail traders, meme stocks, 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:09.680 cryptocurrency SPACs. It was crazy writing about it for Bloomberg 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:12.280 business Week. Is Mike Reagan, senior editor for Bloomberg Markets. 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.800 He's with us in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. Mike 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:17.000 story is the cover of the brand new issue of 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:19.400 Bloomberg business Week magazine. I just got my hands on it. 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:21.480 You can get your hands on it at newsstands and 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.480 online at Bloomberg dot com, slash business Week. That this 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:26.320 is great because it's so overarching, and if we think 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.800 about where we were in the rise of the retail trader, 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:33.000 meme stocks, n f T s, crypto Milania, Trump just 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:35.080 coming out with an n f T earlier today, we 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:36.599 were just talking about it. How are we going to 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:39.240 look back on this year? Yeah, definitely a crazy er. 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.360 I mean, I think what's really interesting is just this 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.880 confluence of events that you know, we've never seen before 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.440 in history. Knock on would we never see again, but 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:50.280 you know, sort of the seeds being planted. I think 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.000 even before the virus, you know that this move to 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:56.440 commission free trading, for example, I think is something I 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:58.880 didn't get into detailing in the story, but I think 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:02.319 it's part of it. And sort crypto reaching its adolescence, 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.920 and all this happening right at a time where suddenly 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.679 we all found ourselves locked at home, um with some 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:11.880 extra money, you know, whether it be from the government 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.840 stimulus payments, just from not being able to to go 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:18.360 out and spend it on other things, and you know, 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:22.080 everyone kind of turned to their computer screens for I think, 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:24.640 you know, not only entertainment, but also the sense of community, 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.440 the sense of you know, the need to interact with 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:32.120 other people, and people stumbled into these social media rabbit holes, 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:35.200 whether it be Wall Street bets on Reddit or you know, 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.600 the the discord chats where all the crypto people hang out, 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:41.920 UM to Twitter and even you know, just text messages 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:44.480 among friends. And you know, I talk about the notion 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:48.040 of identity investing, the notion that you know, these communities 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:52.000 are formed and people sort of gravitate to them, and 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:55.720 suddenly you have a new fundamental driver of of asset prices. 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.400 I think, you know, it's not necessarily the cash flow 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.680 that the company's spinning off that is the important driver 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.720 of the stock. It's doesn't have a community of people 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.320 that have invested interest in it UM that's even goes 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.120 beyond their investments. You know, I clearly I think game 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.440 Stop comes from people who were gamers, who shopped at 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.400 that store as a kid, AMC movie lovers, and then 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.520 cryptic just poking the bear which is known as traditional 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.880 Wall Street just say, absolutely, it's pretty remarkable how it 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.560 really caught a lot of traditional investors, you know or 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:30.760 big you know, institutional firms off. God. Absolutely, and then 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.120 you know this kind of this overarching sense that the 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.320 market was this plaything of the big money institutions and 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.880 hedge funds and kind of very much a rebellion of that. 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.120 And that's a theme that goes through both the you know, 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.200 the crypto boom. I think it is similar, you know, 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:50.360 people trying to sort of recreate a new financial system 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:54.200 outside of the traditional system UM and for some of 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:57.040 the meme stock traders trying to really knock out, uh, 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:58.880 some of the big players in it who were short 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:02.760 these stocks. So you use the term identity investing, what 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:04.760 does that mean? It kind of means, you know what 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.080 I'm talking about with these communities, that you you have 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:11.400 sort of an affinity to an investment um based on 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:13.560 you know, whether it be you're an old video game 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:15.880 player who shot the game Stop as a kid, or 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:19.120 or someone who just got a laugh out of dogecoin 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.880 and Sheba, you know, you know the knockoff of dogecoin. 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:27.000 Carol's laughing because knockoff of dogecoin, right, it's a joke 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.160 of a joke, right, right, and you know it's easy 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:31.960 to roll your eyes and laugh at it, but it 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.480 really happened. And I think it's you know, it's something 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:38.240 in a way. I feel like, you know, the horses 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:40.800 out of the barn now on this type of activity, 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.240 and you know, it's hard to believe we'll see another 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.360 year's wild, but I think that you know, you have 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:47.760 to sort of take this trend seriously. Well, let's talk 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:49.480 about that, because if the if the horses out of 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:51.480 the barn, and perhaps we won't see another year as 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.160 wild as we saw in one. For a handful of factors, 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:58.680 what do we see in two? Because commission free trading 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.160 unless something happens payment for order flow that's not going anywhere. 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:05.160 That's not that's not going anywhere. So there's certainly there 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:07.960 will always be the ingredients the recipe in place. I 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.680 think what will be different about this upcoming years? We 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.600 people had these swollen savings accounts. Um. You know, even 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:17.960 if you were unemployed and you collected unemployment, you were 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.160 getting more than a lot more than you would have 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:21.880 otherwise a lot of people getting more than what they 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.720 made at their jobs. So you know, it almost I 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:26.560 think for a lot of people felt like betting with 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.280 house money. Right. It didn't feel like you're really putting 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:31.800 your own savings at risk because this was sort of 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:35.000 surplus newfound cash. So I think that pile of money, 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.920 that excess savings is going to get drawn down in 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.400 a couple of ways, you know, either deflation of these 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.320 asset prices as one or just people spending it out. Well, 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.360 that's point I said to you earlier when we were 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:50.200 taping for our weekend show, this this story in there. Um, 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.800 I love your last line. You know, remember the reality 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:55.440 maybe virtual the money you're investing eight and it's it's 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:57.320 one thing when everything's going up and it can feel 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.360 like wow, I'm really onto something. But let's remember something 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:04.240 like cryptocurrencies, bitcoin, you know, these things are really volatile. 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:06.880 They are and you know, and you don't even really 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.359 have to tell crypto investor that they're glue. They have 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.800 their their quota and they understand it, and it's it's 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:15.000 part of the I think, appeal of it. If you 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:18.040 wake up on a Saturday morning and ethereum or bitcoin 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.200 is down, it's you know, all of a sudden you 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:22.800 have a chance to get it at a discount. But 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:25.119 you're right that, you know, if the tide you know, 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.800 to use the famous word buffet thing, if the tide 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.520 goes out permanently um, it certainly could be come as 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:34.480 a surprise to many investors. I do think a lot 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:38.240 of this is people's not necessarily their main nest eggs, 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.320 their retirement money. It's kind of, you know, a smaller 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:43.359 budget that they have set aside for you know, I 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:46.840 can talk talk about it like lottery ticket money. You know, what, 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.119 what's your budget for lottery tickets? And I think for 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.159 some people it's that granted, a bigger budget on lottery 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:54.679 tickets than you probably want, want, or should have, But 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.480 you say it's changed investing forever. So what's the lasting 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:00.360 part of this? I think it's these communities and this 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:02.879 this herd behavior. You know, I always think back to 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.000 the old investing clubs. You know, you get a bunch 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.639 of little ladies in a room together and have tea 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:09.640 and you all and they'd all invest the same way. 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:13.520 Peter right right, This is that times a gazillion, I think, 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:15.280 And I think that's what's here to stay. Is this 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:20.000 this herd tribal uh investing that we've seen. And you know, 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:22.800 you don't have to join a tribe permanently. You could 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.040 be in the dose coin tribe one day and then 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:26.880 go back to the games Stop tribe. And I think, 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:28.399 you know, there's gonna be a lot of sort of 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.000 chasing the next where the next crowd is going, okay 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:32.720 before we let you go just in forty seconds. N 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.479 f T s here to stay, I think absolutely, And 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:38.000 I think but not in the way we think of them. 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:39.960 I don't think it's just gonna be j PEG's. I 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:43.440 think they're there. There's a lot more potential and sophisticated 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:46.240 smart contracts as they call it um going forward, and 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.320 n f T s are are sort of the you know, 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:52.840 the poster child for that. It's not buying Milan's eyes. Well, 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.359 you think of these word ape yacht clubs. You know, 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:57.840 it's a it's a picture of a funny ape. But 0:18:57.880 --> 0:18:59.720 there's more to it than that. You you get a 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:03.040 member ship in this online community. So if this metaverse 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:06.600 thing really takes off, um, I think there's gonna be 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.520 more to it than just the pictures are buying. Well, 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:14.119 you know, with Bloomberg's restrictions, I without it for good 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:18.919 or bad. That's a policy that's good all of us 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:22.080 from a lot of a lot of foolish moves. It's 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.440 great coverage in the magazine. Check it out the cover story. 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.600 There's moving, different moving parts to it, but a great story. 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:31.080 Mike Rere again, Senior editor, Bloomberg Markets in our interactive 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:35.520 broker's story. Uh that new issue on newstands, online at 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.680 business week dot com and of course always on the 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:41.600 Bloomberg terminal. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:46.119 Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:49.159 This is among I believe you're most right on the 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:51.879 Bloomberg It is indeed, in fact, it is the number 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:54.560 one most read story in the past eight hours on 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:57.000 the Bloomberg. Doesn't seem like corporate Americas on a path 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:59.960 toward normalcy. A new wave of COVID uncertainty upending business 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.159 plans from Wall Street to Silicon Valley. We've seen a 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:03.800 plan out in real time. Especially, I feel like in 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:07.720 the lasts we have Jenny Serina's finance reporter for Bloomberg 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:10.040 new she's with us in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:12.439 I mean, I hope you're with us for a while, 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:13.880 and like we don't have to all go and work 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:17.760 different places because wherever. Well, look, we were joking and 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:19.760 not really even joking, but we were talking during the 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.240 break that this really feels like, you know, it feels 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.280 like yesterday, yesterday with the cancelation of the JP Morgan conference, 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:28.879 the health conference right that to me, it feels like 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:30.919 it's set off some sort of wave where we're just 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:35.600