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Speaker 1: Amazon is the largest online retailer in the entire world,

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Speaker 1: so Amazon's business decisions really matter because they can set

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Speaker 1: the tone for the entire retail space. And this week

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Speaker 1: Amazon announced they were building out their own super cheap

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Speaker 1: fast fashion retail site where items will ship directly from

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Speaker 1: China to the United States to compete with the suspiciously

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Speaker 1: low cost Chinese online retail giant Chian. Now Sheien is

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Speaker 1: a huge and not to mention not super ethical player

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Speaker 1: in the retail space. After a disastrous Chian influencer brand trip,

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Speaker 1: I spoke to Aja Barber, author of Consumed Colonialism, climate Change,

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Speaker 1: and Consumerism, about the cycle of fast fashion Chian and

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Speaker 1: how it's doing real harm to all of us.

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Speaker 2: All of a sudden, everyone's an expert because a brand

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Speaker 2: has like flown you first class to like tour their facilities,

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Speaker 2: like come on.

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Speaker 3: There are no girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 1: As a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative, I'm Bridge

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Speaker 1: Todd and this is there are no girls.

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Speaker 4: On the Internet.

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Speaker 1: Lately, folks have been having conversations about our consumption habits

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Speaker 1: and the Internet, like should we really be fawning over

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Speaker 1: the Kardashians over consumption on social media, and for a

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Speaker 1: hub second, deinfluencing was a thing where, rather than telling

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Speaker 1: you to buy more stuff, influencers actually told you what

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Speaker 1: stuff not to buy. Until that is, the whole thing

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Speaker 1: was kind of co opted by brands who were basically like, yeah, girl,

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Speaker 1: de influence, don't buy this stuff, buy our stuff instead.

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Speaker 1: And of course those fashion halls where people on TikTok

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Speaker 1: show off bags and bags of stuff they bought from

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Speaker 1: fast fashion retailers. Now it is impossible to talk about

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Speaker 1: fast fashion without talking about Shian pronounced she In as

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Speaker 1: in she in trouble for those TikTok videos. As Madison

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Speaker 1: Malone Kirsher put it at The New York Times, she

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Speaker 1: and clothes are cheap, suspiciously cheap, cheap enough that it

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Speaker 1: makes you think, how could this dress really only cost

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Speaker 1: six dollars? Well, if a slew of recent reports or

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Speaker 1: any indication, the answer is forced labor, human rights violations,

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Speaker 1: stealing designs, gamifying our online shopping habits, wreaking havoc on

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Speaker 1: our environment, and selling us clothes full of chemicals that

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Speaker 1: make us sick. Last year, Wired did a great investigative

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Speaker 1: deep dive about the toll that all of this takes

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Speaker 1: on both the people who make she ins clothing and

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Speaker 1: the people like us who buy it. And there's another

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Speaker 1: thread to this web too, influencers, the people who go

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Speaker 1: on social media and chill for brands online for profit.

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Speaker 1: So given all this, all of this harm can influencers,

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Speaker 1: many of whom talk a big game about causes like

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Speaker 1: supporting women or championing the environment, can they ethically hype

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Speaker 1: up back fashion retailers? Last week, after a disastrous she

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Speaker 1: and brantrip, the Internet answered with a resounding and loud no.

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Speaker 1: And Aja Barber, author of Consumed, The Need for collective change, Colonialism,

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Speaker 1: climate change, and Consumerism, says that the Internet's reaction might

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Speaker 1: be a sign that maybe what we're really craving isn't

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Speaker 1: a five dollars crop top at all, but a new

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Speaker 1: and better system, one that isn't built on exploitation.

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Speaker 2: I've written this book called Consumed. If you are interested

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Speaker 2: in what we talk about today, please get it. You

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Speaker 2: will really really be shocked by some of the stuff

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Speaker 2: you learned.

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Speaker 1: I kind of think of you as like the og

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Speaker 1: person talking about sustainability, Like.

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Speaker 3: Maybe there were people doing it before you, but you were.

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Speaker 1: Definitely the first voice I heard doing it, So I

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Speaker 1: kind of have to start there, like did you just

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Speaker 1: kind of start having these conversations and help the rest

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Speaker 1: of the world caught up with like like you're like,

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Speaker 1: I'll be here when y'all are ready.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's there was no like turning point. But

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Speaker 2: I'll be honest, I just kind of was like, I

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Speaker 2: think this system might be kind of crappy. I always

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Speaker 2: had a niggling feeling with fast Fashion that there was

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Speaker 2: something really crappy going on. I couldn't just shut up

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Speaker 2: and shop. I was kind of a bit like, but

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Speaker 2: how do they get these prices so low? Like just

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Speaker 2: constantly asking myself that, even though like there were times

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Speaker 2: where I couldn't afford anything different, but I still had

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Speaker 2: to ask the question, especially as a curious person and

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Speaker 2: as someone who likes to do crafts and knit and sew.

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Speaker 2: But the other part of it was I found that

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Speaker 2: people really did not like having this conversation consumerism. It

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Speaker 2: has its claws in us, and I noticed in some

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Speaker 2: spaces that you and I were in together, Like people

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Speaker 2: could be as lefty and right on and righteous about

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Speaker 2: every topic under the sun. But if I were like, hey, guys,

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Speaker 2: I think maybe we shouldn't be shopping it forever twenty

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Speaker 2: one because I think they're exploiting people. It would be like, you,

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Speaker 2: you know, fart it in the pool. Everyone would start

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Speaker 2: like throwing like tomatoes at you and get really mad

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Speaker 2: and be super defensive, and I was like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 2: consumerism has us in like a death grip. And so

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Speaker 2: I started to just notice that there was a lot

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Speaker 2: of inconsistency within people's behavior in this conversation, like yeah,

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Speaker 2: support on women, super feminists, right on women, but also

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Speaker 2: like let's not buy sweatshop clothing boo. And so I

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Speaker 2: kind of just was always in spaces where I would

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Speaker 2: sort of like test the waters for the conversation. And

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Speaker 2: I kind of feel like I've been talking about this

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Speaker 2: for life, like ten years now. I've been thinking about

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Speaker 2: it for ten years now, and it's kind of like

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Speaker 2: jumping into a jump rope, like a double dutch jump rope,

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Speaker 2: Like you're going like this, You're waiting for the moments

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Speaker 2: you test the water and you're like, nope, they're not ready.

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Speaker 2: And then there just became a moment where it was like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I think people are ready to have this conversation now.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know if it's a mixture of us

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Speaker 2: realizing that, like climate change is coming for us all

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Speaker 2: and like these systems are aiding in it and no

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Speaker 2: one's gonna be safe, or whether it was people actually

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Speaker 2: starting to realize that, like, these systems aren't good for us.

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Speaker 2: All they're doing is creating billionaires and oppression. But it

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Speaker 2: finally feels like folks have come around.

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Speaker 1: From following you and other folks who create content about sustainability.

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Speaker 1: People do have these very strong, sometimes pretty weird, defensive

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Speaker 1: reactions when you talk about what you talk about. Like

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Speaker 1: I've seen people say like, oh, this is really a

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Speaker 1: classes because some people can only afford to shop fast fashion,

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Speaker 1: or this is really fat phobic because this maybe this

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Speaker 1: brand is the only size this person can find to

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Speaker 1: fit them. Why do you think that is? And how

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Speaker 1: do you have these conversations in a way where folks

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Speaker 1: can actually hear and like take in what you're saying

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Speaker 1: without jumping to that defensive point.

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Speaker 2: I just feel like I have been repeating the same

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Speaker 2: thing for one hundred years now. I'm just kidding. It

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Speaker 2: is just really saying like the same thing. And one

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Speaker 2: of the first things that I realized that people were

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Speaker 2: deeply hypocritical about is we're having a conversation about poverty,

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Speaker 2: but like folks do not want to include the garment

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Speaker 2: workers and the people that make the clothing in that conversation.

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Speaker 2: That is deeply hypocritical, and that is tied to a

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Speaker 2: weird colonialist idea that we think that if somebody lives

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Speaker 2: over there should be okay with being poor. That's that's

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Speaker 2: because you also hear it when people say things like, well,

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Speaker 2: that's a good job in that country, and I always

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Speaker 2: sort of push back a little and go, okay, well

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Speaker 2: do you want to do that job? And they're like no,

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Speaker 2: And then I'm like okay, why not And they're like well,

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Speaker 2: well well, and then they start getting backed into a

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Speaker 2: corner and super defensive. But what I want people to

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Speaker 2: do is like recognize that, like they're playing a part

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Speaker 2: in these colonialist ideas as we're all talking about like

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Speaker 2: decolonizes and that.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean, Like.

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Speaker 2: There was a time period where everybody was sort of

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Speaker 2: talking about colonialism and how it shows up today. But

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Speaker 2: the mere idea that you think someone in the global

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Speaker 2: South wouldn't want to make the same nice wages we

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Speaker 2: do for the same sort of work that we used

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Speaker 2: to do in our country. That's a colonialist idea. The

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Speaker 2: idea that you think that someone should be grateful for

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Speaker 2: a crappy job in an unsafe factor with bad wages,

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Speaker 2: that's a colonialist idea. And then at the end of

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Speaker 2: this system, because it is a linear system production, usage,

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Speaker 2: end of life, we also have a colonialist idea that

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Speaker 2: somebody in the Global South wants our scraps because a

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Speaker 2: lot of the clothing that we buy today isn't the

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Speaker 2: same quality that it was twenty years ago. Because that's

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Speaker 2: how you push billions of garments on your consumers by

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Speaker 2: like really making sure that the quality is not great.

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Speaker 2: So people are constantly buying, but also people are buying

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Speaker 2: for a lot more reasons than that. But you know,

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Speaker 2: we buy twenty times more clothing than we bought in

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety and that means that there's a lot more

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Speaker 2: waste and a lot more stuff being donated. And because

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Speaker 2: we're buying such large quantities of clothes, a lot of

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Speaker 2: what is being donated ends up in the Global South,

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Speaker 2: usually in parts of Africa, being someone else's problem. So,

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Speaker 2: for instance, within the book consumed. I write about Cantamanto

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Speaker 2: Market and Akra, Ghana and they receive fifteen million items

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Speaker 2: of clothing every week from the global North. Now, obviously

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Speaker 2: this market is not going to be able to resell

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Speaker 2: fifteen million items, which means sixty percent of what arrives

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Speaker 2: in Ghana is waste. And when it becomes waste, it

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Speaker 2: ends up everywhere it's not supposed to be. So the

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Speaker 2: municipal dump has filled up ten years ahead of schedule.

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Speaker 2: The dump catches on fire because of all the clothing waste,

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Speaker 2: which also like a lot of that stuff we're putting

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Speaker 2: on our body, and you should see how it's not decomposing.

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Speaker 2: You know, it ends up on the beach. The beach

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Speaker 2: there is incredibly polluted from the clothing waste. It ends

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Speaker 2: up in neighborhoods. And so what we've created is a

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Speaker 2: system of waste colonialism. But we have tricked ourselves into

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Speaker 2: saying that, like, oh, somebody in Africa is really going

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Speaker 2: to be really happy with this T shirt with a twist.

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Speaker 2: It seem that I don't want to wear anymore because

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Speaker 2: I know it's not good, but they're poor, so they

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Speaker 2: can have.

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Speaker 3: It, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: So like from start to finish. This system completely craps

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Speaker 2: on non white people. Your clothing is either is made

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Speaker 2: by a non white person in the Global South, usually

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Speaker 2: in someone who's impoverished, and then at the end of

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Speaker 2: its life we just dump it right back in the

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Speaker 2: Global South on someone else. And that is why it

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Speaker 2: is a racist system. And that is why when people

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Speaker 2: say like, oh, it's it's classes that you should criticize this,

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Speaker 2: I think they're just sort of dodging an actual conversation

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Speaker 2: where we should talk about what our place is and

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Speaker 2: this now there won't There will always be people who

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Speaker 2: can't make different decisions, right, Like the Shian trousers are

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Speaker 2: the ones that they need for work, and those are

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Speaker 2: the trousers they need for work. Fine, that's not the

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Speaker 2: vast majority of us. And when you look at the

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Speaker 2: profit margins that fast fashion is pulling in, if all

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Speaker 2: the poor people on the planet put all of their

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Speaker 2: money together, they couldn't create these profit margins. These massive,

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Speaker 2: inflated billion dollar profit margins that the fast fashion industry

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Speaker 2: is pulling in annually is created with money from customers

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Speaker 2: who are over consuming and buying often. And the people

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Speaker 2: that can do that are middle and upper class people.

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Speaker 1: So we let's talk about that, because I mean, by

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Speaker 1: now you probably are sick of thinking about it, talking

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Speaker 1: about it, being asked about it.

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Speaker 2: I will never get sick of asking about it, talking

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Speaker 2: about it until we stick it to these corporations I

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Speaker 2: want to. I just want to get them so like, no,

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Speaker 2: I'm not tired of it. I will talk about it

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Speaker 2: until the cows come home, because I want these billionaires

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Speaker 2: to pay for what they've done.

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Speaker 1: Don't worry, Aja and I talk all about that disastrous

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Speaker 1: she and brandtrip. After a quick break at her back

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Speaker 1: to launder the company's unsavory reputation stemming from worker mistreatment

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Speaker 1: and environmental and health harms, Shean called in the influencers.

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Speaker 1: She and flew a handful of influencers to Guangzhou, China,

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Speaker 1: to tour one of Shean's factories and to visit its

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Speaker 1: innovation center. It's well lit, clean, and it actually looks

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Speaker 1: like a pretty okay place to work. The influencers speak

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Speaker 1: to workers about rumors of their mistreatment, and the workers say,

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Speaker 1: oh no, we are being well paid and enjoy easy commutes.

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Speaker 3: It all seems pretty rosy.

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Speaker 1: Much like that suspiciously cheap crop cut up maybe a

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Speaker 1: little too rosy, and that's because they were probably not

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Speaker 1: actually talking to employees representative of the typical employee experience

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Speaker 1: at Sheen, nor were they in a typical representative factory.

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Speaker 1: Garment experts spotted pretty quickly that the facility the influencers

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Speaker 1: were touring couldn't possibly be where Sheen makes the clothes

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Speaker 1: they sell, but that didn't keep these influencers from making

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Speaker 1: glowing positive content about what they saw and Shean's practices.

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Speaker 1: One influencer, Danny DMC. Their videos were particularly rage baby,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not even totally sure why. Maybe it's the

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Speaker 1: way Danny refers to themselves as quote an investigative journalist

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Speaker 1: and an independent thinker who gets all the facts and

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Speaker 1: doesn't fall for negative Western propaganda about Sheen like the

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Speaker 1: rest of us sheep. Okay, Danny didn't really say that,

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Speaker 1: but the gist was pretty clear though. In subsequent videos

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Speaker 1: where Danny walks back their partnership with Sheen, they say

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Speaker 1: they were paid very well by Sheen, and at other

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Speaker 1: times they say no one is paying them to say

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Speaker 1: these positive things about the company. There was just something

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Speaker 1: about Danny's video that was just kind of smug, easy

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Speaker 1: to hate, and oh boy did people.

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Speaker 3: Online hate and trust me, I get it.

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Speaker 1: But Aja says, Sheen and the influencers who got flack

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Speaker 1: for shilling for them are low hanging fruit because Sheen

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Speaker 1: is such a big company. But they are not the

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Speaker 1: only ones contributing to the harm here, not by a

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Speaker 1: long shot. They're just the one that's the easiest to

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Speaker 1: get mad about. I do think that we have these

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Speaker 1: ways of making ourselves feel better about something that deep

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Speaker 1: down we know is harmful, and I think that the

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Speaker 1: Shean influencership is a really good example of that on

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Speaker 1: a completely different scale where you know, yeah, it would

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Speaker 1: be nice to think that those influencers were walking around

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Speaker 1: this like clean, safe looking garment factory and that that

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Speaker 1: is actually where Sheen produces their clothing. It would be

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Speaker 1: nice to think that their workers are treated well. But

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Speaker 1: come on, like, we know the truth.

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Speaker 2: Can I also say, do any of these influencers talk

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Speaker 2: about this thing on their grid talk about this particular

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Speaker 2: topic ever? Like why are you all suddenly experts when

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Speaker 2: you never discuss things like fair wages, fair treatment, ethical fashion,

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Speaker 2: that sort of thing. All of a sudden, everyone's an

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Speaker 2: expert because a brand has like flown you first class

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Speaker 2: to like tour their facilities, Like come on.

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Speaker 3: What were your thoughts when you first saw this video

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Speaker 3: blowing up? What were your thoughts?

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Speaker 2: Just generally, I thought, well, this company has found themselves

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Speaker 2: a useful crop of fools, Like yay, they've been looking

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Speaker 2: for him and they just walked right in.

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Speaker 3: They were like, we're here.

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Speaker 2: Oh oh, Like I I there's a okay. So I

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Speaker 2: go back and forth right because I obviously there's a

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Speaker 2: part of me that feels like these influencers, while they

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Speaker 2: are full of hubris about like their own importance and knowledge,

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Speaker 2: they're indicative of a larger problem. And I do feel

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Speaker 2: like the Internet loves a bit of low hanging fruit,

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Speaker 2: like and this is some low hanging fruit right here,

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Speaker 2: because it's indicative of a larger problem with a system

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Speaker 2: where the vast majority of people that you follow on

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Speaker 2: social media, if they are selling clothing, are actually selling

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Speaker 2: sweatshop clothes. It's just easier to go after the group

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Speaker 2: that decided to go with Goliath, and Chan is a

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Speaker 2: goliath in this system. But H and M still can't

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Speaker 2: say that they can guarantee that every person in their

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Speaker 2: supply chain is paid a living wage. How many influencers

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Speaker 2: work with H and M.

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Speaker 3: You know how.

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Speaker 2: Many people that everyone follows sells clothing. I don't sell

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Speaker 2: clothing on my grid. I work with one designer who

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Speaker 2: is extremely ethical, and we do not sell a lot

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Speaker 2: of pieces because people are still not grasping that it

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Speaker 2: is worth it to actually like buy ethical clothing. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't sell at the same rate, So I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to be a millionaire from that. I do it because

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Speaker 2: when I started my collaboration, there wasn't a lot of

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Speaker 2: ethical fashion that could be made in any size because

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Speaker 2: it was still sort of an up and up thing.

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Speaker 2: Now there's a lot more options, But that was why

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Speaker 2: I wanted to do it. I knew I wasn't going

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Speaker 2: to like be really rich off of it, but I

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Speaker 2: don't really aspire to that anyways. But at the root

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Speaker 2: of it on social media is somebody is completely monetizing

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Speaker 2: their life through social media and they're selling clothing. A

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Speaker 2: lot of that is going to be unethical clothing because

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Speaker 2: it's very hard to make an entire living off of

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Speaker 2: selling clothing without working with one of the bigger companies

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Speaker 2: that frankly is exploiting people it's so endemic and we're

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Speaker 2: so used to it, and we're so used to looking

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Speaker 2: the other way. But the truth is, I think that

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Speaker 2: people need to maybe spread it around a bit, like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: obviously you call yourself an investigative journalist, Like that's gonna

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Speaker 2: come for you. That was wild, The internet is going

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Speaker 2: to come for you. But like, at the end of

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Speaker 2: the day, I think a lot of people follow people

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Speaker 2: online that have platforms that are selling you exploitative goods,

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Speaker 2: and we're not questioning that enough, but maybe we should,

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Speaker 2: you know, maybe everyone's sponsors should be questioned in that way,

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Speaker 2: because the truth is, influencers. This system of fast fashion

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Speaker 2: wouldn't exist without influencers, and if it did, it would

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Speaker 2: be a lot smaller and people would not beginning as

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Speaker 2: rich as they're getting. But like, part of the reason

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Speaker 2: brands can afford to influencers around the world on lavish

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Speaker 2: trips is because they're not paying garment workers. If everyone

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Speaker 2: we're paid fairly a lot of these influencer trips, just

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Speaker 2: the budgets for the marketing would not be the same.

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Speaker 2: So I think we need to really get straight with

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Speaker 2: the fact that people in our society, some who are

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Speaker 2: at the top of the charts when it comes to privilege,

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Speaker 2: are trading on other people's lives in these systems, Like

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Speaker 2: you know, I see a lot of people who have platforms,

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Speaker 2: and some of them, deep down inside you kind of

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Speaker 2: know this person is like independently wealthy and they don't

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Speaker 2: even have to sell sweatshop goods, and then they still do,

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Speaker 2: and it's like, why why are we supporting this? When

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Speaker 2: a celebrity wears like fast fashion, everyone's like, you're like

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Speaker 2: one with the people, and it's like, no, it's real.

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Speaker 2: They're happy to exploit people. Yeah, you're so real with

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Speaker 2: your sweatshop guard, Like, why are we celebrating this? So

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Speaker 2: I think we haven't been entirely honest with ourselves for

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Speaker 2: a long time in this conversation. But you know, no

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Speaker 2: time like the present.

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Speaker 1: Once upon a time, I was an influencer, or at

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Speaker 1: least kind of trying to be one. I know, right,

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Speaker 1: hard to believe, but this was back during the time

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Speaker 1: where it seems like if you wanted to have any

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Speaker 1: platform at all, you had to also be an influencer.

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Speaker 1: And I stopped because it just didn't make me feel

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Speaker 1: very good. I quickly started feeling like if I wanted

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Speaker 1: to make any real money doing it, I had to

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Speaker 1: say yes to working with any brand that would have me,

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Speaker 1: whether I wanted to or not, Because influencing is kind

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Speaker 1: of like the new wanting to be a rock star

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Speaker 1: or a professional baseball player. I looked it up, and

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Speaker 1: study after study suggests that more and more kids say

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Speaker 1: they want to be influencers when they grow up. So

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Speaker 1: if it's a crowded space that supposedly everybody wants to

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Speaker 1: be in, maybe that's why I felt like I just

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Speaker 1: had to take whatever came to me. But something that

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Speaker 1: she and Brand Trip really shows is the consequences with

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Speaker 1: influencers are not choosy and intentional about what brands they

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Speaker 1: lend their platforms to, And maybe that's in part because

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Speaker 1: there are just too many influencers now. Don't get me wrong,

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Speaker 1: Influencing is very real work, and I want folks to

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Speaker 1: be paid for their labor. But the crowded space can

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Speaker 1: create these conditions where influencers are not necessarily thinking critically

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Speaker 1: about the corporations they're shilling for. Instead, they're just worried

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Speaker 1: about booking that brand deal and getting that check. And

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Speaker 1: in a world where all of our oppression is connected.

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Speaker 1: That just doesn't sit right with me. You know, you

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Speaker 1: really hit on something that I think is complicated. So

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Speaker 1: I want to choose my words carefully.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: This is also part in part a conversation about influencers

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Speaker 1: and the influencer economy. Right, I very briefly tried my

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Speaker 1: hand at being an influencer, and part of why that

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Speaker 1: didn't work out was that you just end up feeling

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Speaker 1: crappy because you end up feeling like you can't say no.

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Speaker 1: You have to say yes, especially when you're just starting out,

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Speaker 1: or when you're like a black woman or woman of

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Speaker 1: color or like marginalized in some way.

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Speaker 3: Right, And so I know.

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Speaker 1: That influencing it's it's an easy thing to like make

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Speaker 1: fun of, but it is work. And I want influencers

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Speaker 1: to be paid. But an influencer, yeah, you know it

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Speaker 1: more than anybody. But an influencer being paid does not

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Speaker 1: negate the harm that the company paying them is doing.

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Speaker 1: Like the influencer who made that she and video was like, well,

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Speaker 1: we were paid very well and they flew us.

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Speaker 3: It was really a good experience.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't think people are responding

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Speaker 1: because they were worried that she and wasn't paying their

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Speaker 1: influencer as well.

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Speaker 3: It's about the human rights abuses.

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Speaker 1: It's about it's about the ethical responsibilities that this company

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Speaker 1: is skirting. And so I wonder, how do we make

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Speaker 1: sense of like wanting influencers to be paid for their

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Speaker 1: for their labor, but also wanting them to do so

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Speaker 1: in a way that is not contributing to harm because

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Speaker 1: I felt like there was no way to square that circle.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, influencing is not for me, because

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Speaker 1: to make any real money, you basically have to chill

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Speaker 1: for things that are not values a lot, which is

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Speaker 1: like didn't make any sense, and so I don't even

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Speaker 1: really know what I'm asking, But how can we square that?

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Speaker 2: Well? I think, Yeah, I get a little bit worried

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Speaker 2: that too many people want to be influencers, because people

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Speaker 2: want to be famous regardless of what they do, and

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Speaker 2: that's the issue. And then it sort of became like, oh,

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Speaker 2: you can only have a platform if you like speak

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Speaker 2: on you know, certain topics or you have like what's

421
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 2: your niche issue that you care about? And then I thought,

422
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Speaker 2: oh God, let's get ready for some real like empty dialogue,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like everybody's got like a

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Speaker 2: everyone's got a cause, you know, but it's just like

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Speaker 2: like a lot of people, I'm like, you can just

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Speaker 2: admit you just want to be famous. You don't have

427
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,919
Speaker 2: to be like oh yeah, and I'm like, you know,

428
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Speaker 2: I'm a mental health person.

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Speaker 3: Mental health like one, Like it's so annoying.

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Speaker 1: You're like, you know, just be It's okay to want

431
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Speaker 1: just want to be famous and have a platform. You

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Speaker 1: don't need to you don't need to opine publicly.

433
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 2: Every everybody wants to have like a cause so that

434
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 2: they can be like I'm deep, and it's like, maybe

435
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 2: we don't all need to have this because we're having

436
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: a lot of shallow conversations now. But at the end

437
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 2: of the day, I don't think the world needs as

438
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 2: many influencers as we have. I don't think that it's

439
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 2: really an occupation that like I've read some survey and

440
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 2: I don't remember where, but it was like one out

441
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 2: of seven school children who's like asked about what they

442
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 2: want to be when they grow up, says they want

443
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: to be an influencer. And I'm like, no, no, yeah,

444
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 2: you know, I think this idea of wanting to be

445
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 2: famous just for being famous is it's quite weird, to

446
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 2: be honest. For me, I've always seen platforms as a

447
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 2: way to open doors to things that I've always wanted

448
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 2: to do. So, like I have always wanted to write,

449
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 2: but like you know, I told my parents, Oh, I

450
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 2: want to write, and they were like, yeah, good luck

451
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 2: with that. There's so many black women writers out there

452
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 2: that are being celebrated in our society. It's just like,

453
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,479
Speaker 2: you know, twenty years ago, so I wasn't encouraged to

454
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 2: go into this path, and so I kind of saw

455
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 2: having a platform as a way of achieving the things

456
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 2: that I wanted to do career wise. And I think

457
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 2: we really have to question, like who are we following

458
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 2: and why, you know, Like I guess we shouldn't be

459
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 2: that surprised that people want platforms just to be famous

460
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 2: in a world where like no one can stop talking

461
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 2: about the Kardashians, you know, I think it's really indicative

462
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 2: of our society. But at the end of the day,

463
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 2: I just think maybe we just need fewer people wanting

464
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 2: to like go after this sort of work, because at

465
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 2: the end of the day, we're propping up something that

466
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily think is great, like there could be

467
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 2: a lot of great things achieved from online spaces. But

468
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 2: if people, if everybody wants to have a cause, and

469
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 2: everybody claims to care about the same stuff, like oh,

470
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 2: I don't want to oppress women, then what are we

471
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 2: doing in this conversation? You know? How did we get

472
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: to this place? And I think we also need to

473
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: understand that, like influencing is a fairly young occupation. It's

474
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 2: been what around for like twenty years or so, so

475
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 2: like my generation had the ability to shape this occupation

476
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 2: and to something that could be great, and we've just

477
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 2: found ourselves in the same capitalist healthscape where the corporations

478
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 2: have everyone under their thumb. And so I really think

479
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 2: that influencers need to think about, like what is it

480
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 2: that we're trying to achieve, And like maybe if we

481
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 2: get with the winning team and all start to maybe

482
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 2: organize a little bit, not only can we fight for

483
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 2: better for ourselves, but we can transform industries fast fashion

484
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 2: when it sell without people willing to sell it. But

485
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 2: we need to really get with the winning team about

486
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 2: like what that looks like and what those sorts of

487
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 2: sacrifice look like. If we want everyone to be paid,

488
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 2: Like at one point in time, people are sort of

489
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: kicking around this idea of an influencer union in the UK,

490
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 2: and when asked about it, I was just like no,

491
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 2: because I'm the daughter of a union president ex union president.

492
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 2: But your union has to recognize other unions. You have

493
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 2: to have a code of ethics. And it's the majority

494
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 2: of the If the majority of the sponsors of the

495
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 2: people within this union are brands that bust unions, then

496
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 2: what are we doing. You can't unionize will not recognizing

497
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 2: other people's unions. That's not how that works. And so

498
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 2: like we're at a crossroads where people really need to

499
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 2: like figure out what sits right with their morals. And

500
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 2: I'm never going to say that like influencing is easy,

501
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: because it isn't. I think that content creators can be

502
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 2: incredibly skilled, but it is still an occupation that is like,

503
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 2: you know, you're not clean and gutters, you know what

504
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 2: I mean, Like you're not you're you're not like you know,

505
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 2: like there's a lot of other occupations you could do.

506
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be the one where like you

507
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: know that the highs are high and the lows are low,

508
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 2: you know, And so people people need to get right

509
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 2: with their ethics here, and what that's really going to

510
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 2: look like is folks sitting stuff out, Like we're all

511
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: looking at the Writer's Guild strike and I'm like right on,

512
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 2: like union strong, you know, just like power to the workers,

513
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 2: you know, like we're all watching this go down. But

514
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: like people don't realize what solidarity should look like across

515
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: the board. You know. So if you are like an

516
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 2: influencer and you don't want to like oppress people and

517
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: sell things that oppress people, then you need to actually

518
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: figure out what that's going to look like for you.

519
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 2: If the only thing you can think of is, oh,

520
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 2: I got to take money from like these horrible brands,

521
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 2: then like maybe this isn't the thing that you should

522
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 2: be going for. The reality is I knew that I

523
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 2: couldn't do that, and so I diversified and I you know,

524
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 2: started doing Patreon long before the lockdown, which served me well.

525
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 2: I wanted to write books, I wanted to do a

526
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: lot of different things, but I did not ever want

527
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: to take money to say on my grid that like

528
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 2: some big box brand was not oppressing people when I

529
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: know the majority of them are.

530
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 4: More after a quick break, let's get right back into it.

531
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: You have pledged that you will never take a dime

532
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: from Fast Fashion?

533
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 3: How did that? How did that pledge come to be?

534
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 2: So I pledged that I would never sponsor my grid

535
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 2: with Fast Fashion to be honest, like, I would love

536
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 2: to get in a room with some of these CEOs

537
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 2: and then have them pay me to just yell at them,

538
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 2: like find them style like better, Oh my god, oh

539
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 2: my hit him, Oh my goodness. That would be like

540
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 2: the dream to like take their money to like not

541
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: just yell at them, but also like hold them to

542
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: account and get paid to do it. I would love

543
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: to do that. So, you know, in the beginning, I

544
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 2: was like, I'll never take a dollar from Fast Fashion,

545
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 2: but I will never ever sit on my platform and say, well,

546
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 2: actually they're not too bad to try and everyone they

547
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 2: used like organic cutt and one T shirt last year.

548
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: Because that's basically what's happening now. If I were to

549
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 2: be in a position where I'm paid to like hold

550
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: these brands to account or drag them publicly, like I

551
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 2: was thinking about what that would look like recently, I

552
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 2: was like, how do I get to a point where

553
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 2: like I'm using this platform to really really like get

554
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: in CEO's heads, but yeah, I basically when I started

555
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 2: talking about sustainability, I had just moved to the UK

556
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,239
Speaker 2: and me and my partner had gotten married and had

557
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 2: to do visa process and my god, we were broke.

558
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 2: And so I had this platform, and my partner was like, hey,

559
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 2: you need to start making some money because now you

560
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 2: have your working papers, and I was like, I know,

561
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: but I can't, and he was just like, well do something,

562
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,239
Speaker 2: and so like we went back and forth because like

563
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 2: at some point in time I was gonna have to

564
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 2: like start working. And I basically loved writing every day

565
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 2: about sustainability, and I found that there wasn't a There

566
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 2: was a real lack of actual honest information about sustainability

567
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 2: on Instagram at the time, and people really wanted that.

568
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 2: People were seeking that. They wanted someone who would say,

569
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 2: like this brand sucks and here's why. And I couldn't

570
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 2: do that and then also be like, by the way,

571
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 2: today's add is spalter Zara.

572
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.

573
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: So I sort of like talked to my community that

574
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 2: was slowly building, and I said, look, I love sharing

575
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 2: information with you all, but like I got to get

576
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 2: paid somehow, but I don't want to do it.

577
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: That way.

578
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 2: So I'm going to start a Patreon and if a

579
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 2: certain amount of you sign up, I will continue Monday

580
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 2: through Friday to post here. I will keep the ads

581
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 2: to a minimum. If I ever work with a sponsor,

582
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 2: you better believe that they're going to be ethical and bcore.

583
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: To this day, the only sponsors that I've had on

584
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 2: my grid have been like, you know, resell sites like eBay,

585
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 2: festi Air Collective, which is very very like that. That

586
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 2: is like the perfect partnership for me because that's how

587
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 2: I buy the majority of my clothing, and I love

588
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 2: helping people to like realize that, like, actually you don't

589
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 2: have to buy anything new because this entire system runs

590
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 2: off of overproduction, which means that if there's something you want,

591
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 2: it'll pop up on resale eventually. There have been like

592
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 2: very few things that I have never seen that I've

593
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 2: that has caught my eye on a store that hasn't

594
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 2: popped up on eBay or best Stair Collective. Very few,

595
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 2: and so I basically told my readership, I really really

596
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 2: really want to keep this space ad free because we

597
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 2: know what advertising looks like in this space. And people

598
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 2: were actually really jazzed about that, and it was great

599
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 2: because it was twenty eighteen and by twenty twenty, starting

600
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 2: a newsletter, which is something I do, or starting a

601
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 2: Patreon or starting a substack was like it was like

602
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 2: the Great Migration of like, you know, if you joined

603
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 2: at that point, you were like a trout swimming upstream

604
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 2: with everyone else. But I felt like I had already

605
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 2: sort of cemented myself there because I was like, I

606
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 2: can't do this. I don't want to sell you stuff,

607
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 2: and you know, I don't want to. I don't ever

608
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 2: want to have to worry about paying a light bill

609
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 2: and then saying something that isn't true and I know

610
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 2: probably isn't that or not even like you know, having

611
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 2: to look the other way in order to like really

612
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: take the money. And sometimes it is hard, like recently

613
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 2: I did a panel and I found out the day

614
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: before that one of the brands on the panel had

615
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 2: been like caught up and like something where they hadn't

616
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 2: been using a good factory basically, and that was very awkward.

617
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 2: Sometimes things like that are really unavoidable, But I try

618
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 2: my darness to not be in those situations because I

619
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 2: don't know, I want to like like who I am

620
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 2: when I look in the mirror, and I know that

621
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 2: if I had financed my life through taking money from

622
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 2: people that were oppressing women of color, I wouldn't like that,

623
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 2: And I think it's time for everyone to sort of

624
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 2: view a lot of these companies is that way. And

625
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 2: if we can actually start to get to a point

626
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 2: where we're actually towing a party line as content creators, together,

627
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 2: we can actually transform these industries because a lot of

628
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 2: these brands need us. But the problem is people are

629
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 2: so thirsty that they're just like, I'll take a dollar

630
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 2: from anyone. I'll do it for one hundred dollars, And

631
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 2: it's like, no, if we actually like organize for ourselves,

632
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 2: not only could we get these brands paying better fair

633
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 2: rates for like the advertisement because they get so much

634
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 2: from influencers they really do, but we could also tow

635
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 2: the party line and be like, guess what if you're

636
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 2: not paying your garment workers, you don't get to work

637
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 2: with any influencers. That would be the power of organizing

638
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,280
Speaker 2: in the space, But unfortunately it's not going to happen

639
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 2: until people realize that our liberation is intrinsically tied to

640
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 2: the person in the global South who is bearing the

641
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,959
Speaker 2: brunt of the system, and that's the problem. We think

642
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 2: that like we're we think we're disconnected from it, but like, no,

643
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 2: a company that exploits that person over there is more

644
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 2: than happy to exploit you.

645
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: All of that sounds pretty bleak, but it doesn't have

646
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: to be. Creating a better relationship with consuming and what

647
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: and how we buy can actually be transformative. It can

648
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: change our relationship to our space, our bodies, the way

649
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: we feel about ourselves.

650
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 3: It can be an opportunity, not a punishment.

651
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: This all sounds very doom and gloomy, but I will

652
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: say the experience of reading your book was there there's

653
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: a bright side to it, I guess is what I'm saying,

654
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 1: Like everything that you just said is correct and scary

655
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: and seems really big, But the reality is is that

656
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: we can make small changes, like we don't have to

657
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: wait for corporations.

658
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 3: To be better.

659
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: We don't have to like we can make small changes

660
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,240
Speaker 1: like in the pandemic. I've talked about this on the show.

661
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: I got a little bit like addicted to buying cheap crap.

662
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: I didn't need just for like a boost because I

663
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 1: was feeling yeah, and I had to take a step

664
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: back and be like what am I doing here? Like

665
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 1: the amount of boxes outside of my apartment was it's

666
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,760
Speaker 1: like embarrassing to me. And when I started really thinking

667
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: about my consumption habits and how social media was part

668
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: of it, and really undoing and unpacking some of that,

669
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: it really changed my relationship to my home because I

670
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: didn't have my closets were not filled with the brim

671
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: with crap. I didn't need my physical presentation because so

672
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: much of those clothes were garbage. Like I found this

673
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: tiede fucking two piece sweatsuit that I bought on Amazon,

674
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: and I was like, why did I buy this? This

675
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: looks ridiculous and it looks ridiculous on me. When you

676
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: when you stop consuming and then you actually focus on

677
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: acquiring things that you like, that feel good, that are

678
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 1: that are designed, that are like made well. I not

679
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: the company made well, but.

680
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 3: Made space well. Uh made clear about that.

681
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: Like my dad gave me this leather jacket that it

682
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: used to wear in the seventies that I've now been

683
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: like oiling and taking very good care of. And it's

684
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 1: like I have a news sense of pride and love

685
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: for the things that I that I really value.

686
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 3: And then when I put them on my body. I

687
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 3: feel better.

688
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: It's really this sounds hippy toppy and all of that,

689
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: and it sounds like it sounds, but it really has

690
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: been transformative.

691
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: You're completely right about that. The truth in the matter is,

692
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 2: I think we view like slowing down our consumption cycles

693
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 2: is like, Oh, it's gonna be so boring and I'm

694
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,359
Speaker 2: gonna hate it and it's gonna be terrible. And I

695
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 2: can say my wardrobe is four hundred percent better than

696
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 2: it was when I was buying fast fashion because I

697
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 2: really think about the things I bring into my closet.

698
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 2: Not only do I think about it, but getting away

699
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 2: from fast fashion forces you to actually figure out your style,

700
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 2: your personal style, because we all think that we're being

701
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 2: freed by fast fashion, but if anything, you're just getting

702
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: a ton of trends pushed at you. You think you

703
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 2: have free will in this, but in actuality, the things

704
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 2: that are being sold to you you have been picked

705
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 2: out for you by experts months in advance. So you're like, ooh,

706
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 2: look at me with this, like my styles really developed,

707
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 2: But really you look like a lot of other people

708
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: in the global North who shopped at the same store.

709
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 2: And so you know, when you start to really not

710
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 2: want to engage with this stuff anymore. You find that

711
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 2: you really start to actually find what your style is.

712
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 2: You start investing in things, you know, because you're not

713
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 2: shopping every month anymore. So, like I used to say,

714
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: I was that person in my twenties that would be like, well,

715
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 2: I do like that brand's great if you can afford it,

716
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 2: And like, there were time periods where I was not

717
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 2: making a lot of money and I was moving in

718
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: and out of my parents' basement, and I would argue

719
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 2: that was probably buying a lot of fast fashion to

720
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 2: like soothe those feelings of an adequacy that I had. Right,

721
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 2: so I'm looking at like an ethical brand and sizing

722
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 2: it up and talk talking about how I can't really

723
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 2: afford that thing. But I'm literally handing two hundred dollars

724
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 2: a month to like fast fashion companies and not even

725
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 2: realizing I'm doing it literally, you know, and just not

726
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 2: even quantifying what I'm doing. And then it turns out

727
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 2: that like, actually, maybe I could have afforded that very

728
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 2: nice dress. I just didn't need to buy five dresses

729
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 2: from H and M last summer. Funny that, you know.

730
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 2: And so when you really stop to like you know,

731
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 2: be present, but also just like get off of this

732
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 2: trend cycle. You find yourself really leaning into like the

733
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 2: core and the essence of what it is that you love,

734
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 2: and then you know your your style doesn't change with

735
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 2: you know, you'll obviously there'll be sometimes where you'll experiment

736
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 2: with this and that, but like the core of what

737
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 2: your style is, in the essence of what your style

738
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 2: is isn't going to change as fast as the system

739
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,919
Speaker 2: of micro trends. So like for me, if I find

740
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 2: a dress that I love on eBay, I'm still gonna

741
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 2: love it three years from now because I love it,

742
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 2: which is why it's great because now I shop that way,

743
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 2: you know, and I always, I always have used eBay

744
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 2: for buying clothes. I just didn't share it with my

745
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 2: peers because it wasn't very cool until recently. But now

746
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 2: I find that, like there are brands I love to

747
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 2: go back and buy things that I didn't have money

748
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 2: for like years ago, but like maybe like a luxury

749
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 2: item that like I really really love but could never afford,

750
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 2: and then I go and find it on eBay and

751
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, seventy percent off of like the

752
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 2: retail price. You know what I mean. So once you

753
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 2: start to really like dive into your style and get

754
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 2: away from trends, it cannot only be super fulfilling, but

755
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 2: you're gonna find that, like you have a wardrobe that

756
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 2: brings you so much joy, and when you have that,

757
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 2: you're not chasing the trends anyways. But additionally, I always

758
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 2: say that fast fashion is kind of a bit like sugar.

759
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 2: So in the US, we put sugar in everything, like everything,

760
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 2: and I live in the UK now and they do

761
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 2: not put sugar in everything, and it is very noticeable

762
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 2: when you first get here. I crave sugar, like I'm

763
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 2: a sugar fiend, and it's the last thing for me

764
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: that I need to like tap down on, like I

765
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 2: barely drink. I have a mostly vegetarian diet, but sugar

766
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 2: is my vice. So when I get to the UK,

767
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 2: I'm always like craving the sugar, like, oh, give it

768
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 2: to me. And then after like a few weeks sort

769
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 2: of like tampers off. And then when I go back

770
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 2: to the State, I might go out to like a

771
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:54,240
Speaker 2: restaurant that I really rate and get like a dessert

772
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 2: that I used to love, and when I'm eating it,

773
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 2: I'm like this so sweet, like you can really tell

774
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 2: when you've been away from it, and fast fashion is

775
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 2: the same, except I find myself saying, was this always

776
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 2: so crap?

777
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 3: You know?

778
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 2: Like when I first took time and basically said, like

779
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 2: moving to the UK really helped me because I had

780
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 2: no money and I had also had to like really

781
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 2: lighten my possession, so I wasn't in a massive rush

782
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 2: to like go and acquire new things, and so I

783
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,919
Speaker 2: really took some time from all the stores, I unsubscribed,

784
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 2: from all the email lists, no apps, YadA, YadA, YadA,

785
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 2: and I would say the next time I went into

786
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 2: an H and M, after taking like six months to

787
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 2: just really clear my head and start to get away

788
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 2: from fast fashion, all I could think about was how

789
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 2: everything was plastic, and the stores they smell weird. They

790
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 2: smell they smell weird, and that's because there are a

791
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 2: bunch of things that they spray the clothing in transit

792
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 2: to keep it from wrinkling. So you start to notice

793
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 2: things like that when you take time away with slow fashion,

794
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 2: the quality, I just it's incomparable. I do some like

795
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 2: personal shopping and personal styling virtually through my Patreon, and

796
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,919
Speaker 2: one of the things that I always I never get

797
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 2: sick of is the person who gets their first like

798
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 2: slow fashion purchase and they're just like the quality they

799
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 2: just can't keep. They just they're like, this is unbelievable

800
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 2: because we really haven't noticed, like while being in the

801
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 2: fast fashion cycle that things have gotten pretty bad. But

802
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 2: then when you compare it to something that's a lot

803
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 2: better quality, you're like, oh, we just think that like

804
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 2: it's gonna be terrible because consumerism has trained us to

805
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 2: believe that, Like, this is how we participate in societiety.

806
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 2: This is how you show the world your personal style.

807
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 2: This is how you this is the hobby you do

808
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 2: in your downtime. This is how you reward yourself when

809
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 2: you're feeling bad. This is what you do when you

810
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 2: need a new outfit for a job interview, which you

811
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 2: absolutely don't need a new outfit for a job interview.

812
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 2: That person's never met you before, they will not know

813
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 2: if it's an old outfit, you know. So, like we

814
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 2: trick ourselves into thinking that consumerism is like our best friend,

815
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 2: but in actuality, it's killing the planet and thus killing us,

816
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 2: and we need to think about it differently.

817
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 1: Basically, when you think about what's on the horizon. It

818
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: does seem like people are kind of catching up, you know.

819
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: Secondhand clothing is kind of having a moment. Thrifting is

820
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,799
Speaker 1: having a moment. People are having conversations about consumption. Are

821
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: you Are you hopeful that we will sort of get

822
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: ourselves out of this?

823
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 3: Do you see that happening?

824
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 2: M Well, I am hopeful, but you know, not to

825
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 2: get depressing. But like all this is going to come

826
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 2: to a screeching hole because Mother Nature is about to

827
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 2: like clamp down on us really hard. So what you

828
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 2: need to understand with these systems is we're all over

829
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 2: consuming the consumer. The brands are obviously overproducing, pushing us

830
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 2: to over consume. If we don't change this ship around,

831
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 2: we won't have the raw materials for a lot of

832
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 2: these brands to keep going. But we can't keep going

833
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 2: like this forever. All of these systems right are playing

834
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:40,439
Speaker 2: such a crucial part on the natural resources that our

835
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 2: lovely planet provides for us for free, and these brands

836
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 2: are taking way more than their fair share. I'm kind

837
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 2: of hopeful though, that people start to see these systems

838
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 2: for what it is before it comes to that, because,

839
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 2: like I said, this is sort of like the last Hurrah.

840
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 2: It seems like the fashion industry just said it's just

841
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 2: going to ride the car until the wheels fall off.

842
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 2: But if the wheels fall off, things are going to

843
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 2: look really, really bad. So people think that like, ethical

844
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 2: fashion is expensive now you just wait until coon cost

845
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 2: one hundred dollars a yard, you know what I mean.

846
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 2: But if we keep depending on this system of overproduction

847
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 2: and over consumption somewhat pushed by influencers, like by all means,

848
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 2: the companies are totally at fault. The billionaires are at fault.

849
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 2: But the person who has a platform, who thinks none

850
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 2: of this has anything to do with them and I'm

851
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 2: just trying to get a paycheck, you're at fault too,

852
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 2: because if you have like the same following count as

853
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 2: me on Instagram and you're selling people something daily, you

854
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 2: are selling thousands of product a year, hundreds and thousands

855
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 2: of products a year, and probably getting a really nice

856
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,399
Speaker 2: affiliate linking check, so you're also like richer than everyone else,

857
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 2: but then also going, oh, well, I can't afford to change,

858
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 2: this is how I make a living. No, maybe it

859
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 2: is you that needs to change, because this system won't

860
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 2: go on forever, and then like then, what we now

861
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 2: have a system where like people truly can't afford clothing.

862
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,840
Speaker 2: I don't want to live like that. So I really

863
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 2: hope that people wake up and realize that, like, these

864
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 2: corporations are harming our planet and these systems of consumption

865
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 2: are hurting and harming us. And I don't think that

866
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 2: this is an impossible thing for us to do. I

867
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 2: think we really need to be honest with ourselves and

868
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,359
Speaker 2: look at where we are in this system, and look

869
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 2: at who we are in this system. You know, if

870
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 2: you're the person who really really just needs that pair

871
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 2: of work trousers from Primmark, I am never going to

872
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 2: show up and like slap your wallet out of your hand,

873
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 2: because I'm not a bad person. But that's not how

874
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 2: Primark turns loads and loads of profit. They turn loads

875
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 2: and loads of profit by people going on holes there.

876
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 4: You know.

877
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 2: So like realizing who you are in this system and

878
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 2: what you can like afford to do honestly, it's going

879
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 2: to be a crucial part. And like asking yourself, do

880
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 2: I even want to participate this way? Because I remember

881
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 2: when I was buying fast fashion feeling really like I

882
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 2: don't know a bit sort of like push to do

883
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 2: it in a way where I wasn't comfortable, like taking

884
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 2: out my summer clothing from the year before and then

885
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 2: being like, Oh, all these stresses are really nice, They're

886
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 2: still good. I don't know why I feel compelled to

887
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 2: buy new dresses. So ask yourself, do you even like

888
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 2: being in the system? And if you don't, like, what

889
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 2: are you going to do differently? But rest assure when

890
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 2: people say that like, oh, it's not on the individual,

891
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 2: it's on the corporation. The corporation does require you. It

892
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 2: requires a lot of us buying into it, It requires

893
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 2: people over consuming. And if you don't think in corporations

894
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 2: don't feel threatened by like sustainability, in many ways they do.

895
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 2: There's a reason why, like every trash bag company is

896
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:13,280
Speaker 2: now sort of starting to do like secondhand resale because

897
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:17,320
Speaker 2: they see that us as citizens are actually caring about

898
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 2: this stuff and they want a piece of the pie.

899
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 2: So we get to say that, oh, we care about sustainability,

900
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 2: and also like we can profit twice from like the

901
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 2: same crap, except some of that stuff doesn't hold up

902
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 2: long enough for it to have two owners. But that's

903
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 2: another story. I do think that corporations realize that, like

904
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:40,399
Speaker 2: the writing is on the wall, and the more we

905
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,240
Speaker 2: become informed citizens and the more we start to really

906
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 2: take action and change how we into how we interact

907
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 2: with this system, the more we can actually change the

908
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:51,760
Speaker 2: system for the better.

909
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 1: Okay, so what did you think of that she and

910
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: brantrip and what are your thoughts on fast fashion retailers

911
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,919
Speaker 1: like Shian? You can let me know email at Hello

912
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:03,879
Speaker 1: at tangodi dot com, on my Instagram at bridget ran DC,

913
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: on Twitter at bridget money, or you can always subscribe

914
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: to our Patreon at patreon dot com slash tangody because

915
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: I kind of can't stop talking about it and I

916
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:18,319
Speaker 1: would love to hear your thoughts. Got a story about

917
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,359
Speaker 1: an interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi?

918
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: You can read us at Hello at tangody dot com.

919
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 1: You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tengodi

920
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was

921
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: created by Me bridget tod. It's a production of iHeartRadio,

922
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: an unbossed creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tarry

923
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 1: Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Almato is

924
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: our contributing producer, I'm your host.

925
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 4: Bridget Todd.

926
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 3: If you want to help us grow, rate and review.

927
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 4: Us on Apple Podcasts.

928
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app,

929
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:48,240
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts.

930
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:55,839
Speaker 4: Or wherever you get your podcasts.

931
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:00,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah,