1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you from houstu works 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, I'm welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: and I'm Kristen, and today we're talking about women in 4 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 1: electronic music. And it was super difficult to clip these 5 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: notes together and sort of come up with talking points 6 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: because this is not exactly like a one and done topic. 7 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: Women have been involved in electronic music from the get go, 8 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: so way back in the nineteenth century, all the way 9 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: up through today as DJs, as composers, as people who 10 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: are building and constructing instruments and devices that make all 11 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: of those fabulous beeps and boops that you hear, and 12 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: electronic music to totally sound like a nube. Um. But yeah, 13 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: So this is Women in Music Week, and we're super 14 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: excited to get started talking about something that frankly, I 15 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: personally only didn't have a lot of familiarity with before 16 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: we started looking into it. I am much more of 17 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: like a an Otis reading channel on Spotify person than 18 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: an electronic music person, but more a luddite music fan. 19 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but I mean even then, electronic music infiltrates 20 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: so many different types of music that it's hard to 21 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: pin it down as just one thing, and I want 22 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: to go ahead and offer our disclaimer to our listeners 23 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: that there's so much great information out there that we 24 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: couldn't hit at all. I mean, we're we're definitely trying 25 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: to focus on the pioneers women in electronic music who 26 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: were really blazing a trail in addition to some of 27 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: the gender issues that are being talked about today. And so, 28 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: without further ado, let's jump into what electronic music is 29 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: for people who are like, I'm not sure, well, that 30 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: is what it sounds like. It's music created with electronic equipment, 31 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: things like computeurs and synthesizers, right, And so you might 32 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,559 Speaker 1: think and you might dismiss electronic music as being something 33 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: that's like, that's not real music. There's nothing to it. 34 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: You just hit some dials on a synthesizer. But that's 35 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: an attitude that Bork, who's a pretty mainstream electronic artist 36 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: at this point, took issue with back in in an interview. 37 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: She said, I find it so amazing when people tell 38 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: me that electronic music has not got soul and they 39 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: blame the computers. They get their finger and they point 40 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: at the computers like there's no soul here, and it's like, 41 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: you can't blame the computer. If there's not soul in 42 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: the music, it's because nobody put it there and it's 43 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: not the tools fault. And so it's interesting to see 44 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: how as electronic music has evolved from way back in 45 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century to today, how people have tried to 46 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: sort of create music that is free of the traditional constraints, 47 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: whether of the instrumentation itself or just the way we 48 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: think about music in general. Well, speaking of constraints, though, 49 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: when we look at electronic music today and how it's critiqued, uh, 50 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: women are still a lot of times put in boxes, 51 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: Oh you're a female DJ, or you're a female electronic 52 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: music artist. And Molly Wells of Funerals takes issue with this, 53 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: saying woman is not a genre. Stop acting like we're 54 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: a passing fad. And I don't know if Molly Wells 55 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: would hear us talking about the history of women in 56 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 1: electronic music and say the same thing all over again. 57 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: But we are hopefully going to back up her statement 58 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: that hey, we're not some specialty act. We've been here 59 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: the whole time. So let's give you some quick origins 60 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: of electronic music and where it came from um. It 61 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: goes back to the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. 62 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: You have some pretty smart folks, people like Herman von 63 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: Helmholtz and Ferruccio Bossoni, who start publishing books encouraging people 64 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: to explore the science of sound and the possibility of 65 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: creating new tones altogether. Others take this idea and a 66 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: passion for music and sound and start creating some pretty 67 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: crazy instruments. So in seven, for instance, you have Thaddius 68 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,839 Speaker 1: Kate Hill who patents the tell Harmonium also known as 69 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: the Dynamo phone, which was the first significant electronic music instrument, 70 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: and he didn't complete it until nine seven. And this 71 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: scene was massive. It weighed two d tons, measured sixty 72 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: ft long, and it was a thirty six note per 73 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: octive keyboard and was a type of additive synthesizer, likely 74 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: a term coined by Kate Hill. So this guy was 75 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: pretty much a genius. And you could only hear it 76 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: though by sending the voltage output over the telephone network 77 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 1: to paying subscribers. And I mean when I say this 78 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: thing is massive, it was. It looked like one of 79 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: a huge organ on steroids, like a robot organ taking 80 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: over a room and for all of that size, Yeah, 81 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: it could make a little bit of music. But yeah, 82 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 1: you had to be one of the cool early adopter 83 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: insiders who knew when to pick up the phone. I 84 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: guess to listen to it, and then I mean, who 85 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: has the time? What are you doing when you're sitting 86 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: there listening to it, Like you've got to sit on 87 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: the phone. Well, it's well, I guess by this point, 88 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: what nineteen seven? What else are you gonna do? That? Right? 89 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: It's true. Well, in nineteen nineteen c I, a Nemesis 90 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:21,239 Speaker 1: and Soviet spy Leon Thereman invents the harp the theremin, 91 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: which is basically a box with two antenna and you 92 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: wave your hands next to them to control pitch and volume, 93 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: and he ended up patenting it. In my first Thereman experience, 94 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: I saw somebody performing it and was like, what it's 95 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: it's black magic magic um. But also during this time 96 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: of development and experimentation in the nineteen twenties, you've got 97 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 1: your major who develops the sporophone, which could deliver microtonal 98 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 1: and quarter tone scales. Basically, he wanted to liberate music 99 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: from its fixed scale on the piano. And during this 100 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 1: time you know, a lot of people are responding to 101 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 1: cultural shifts. It's not surprising that when things happen in 102 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: society and in culture, people in the arts will respond 103 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: to it. And so if you look to Russia after 104 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: the Bolshevik Revolution, there were radical new types of music 105 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: and electronic instruments emerging as part of this utopian movement 106 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: inspired by futurism and anarchistic ideas. You've just basically got 107 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people around this time being like done 108 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: with the charity of the piano and hooray for scientific culture. 109 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: But not everybody was on board with this newfangled electronic 110 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: music in the nineteen thirties. For instance, the Nazis were 111 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: initially like, yeah, thumbs up electronic music, but then they 112 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 1: labeled it experimental and thought electronic music was degenerate and 113 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: un German. And meanwhile, the Bolsheviks started killing the anarchists. 114 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: So I mean, actually, that kind of makes electronic music 115 00:06:55,600 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: a lot cooler if the Bolsheviks and the Nazis were 116 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: against it, if they were like totally for electronic music, 117 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: I might feel a little more conflicted about beets and boops, right, 118 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: all your beats and boops, well beyond just the political 119 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: speed bumps that electronic music hit. There was also sort 120 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: of the global shrug of people wanting instruments that could 121 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: simulate the sound of regular instruments. Yeah, that's a fun 122 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: of playing a keyboard today. Yeah, like I can't play 123 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: the bassoon. Oh wait, yes, I can, honk. I know, 124 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: Kristen's constantly walking around in here with her bassoon key tar, 125 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: just like hitting notes. It's getting really old. Um. But 126 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: if we jump forward to the nineteen sixties and seventies, 127 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: this is the Space Age. This is the Cold War, 128 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,679 Speaker 1: serious interest starts redeveloping in electronic music. This is also 129 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: the era where we start getting a lot of electronic 130 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: music studios. I mean, how else, Kristen, are you going 131 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: to make all of the laser guns sounds that accompany 132 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: all of your Space Age movies? Well, a lot of 133 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: that technology, Caroline. The Space Age stuff is thanks to 134 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: links between electronic music equipment and equipment developed for military purposes, 135 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: and so you have things like broadcast radio amplification and 136 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: recording technology vocoders, which is a combo of voice encoding 137 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: and encryption technology that would end up in early hip hop. 138 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: So that's laying the groundwork for these kinds of instruments 139 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: being developed in the sixties and seventies, and also a 140 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: reason why women might not have been as visible or 141 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: participatory in building these earliest instruments. Yeah, that's one thing 142 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: that I found in all of this research was that 143 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: there's so many guys out there building and constructing and 144 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: inventing these electronic do deads, but not as many women. 145 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: They tended to be more performers. What if you look 146 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: at eighteen fifty two at eight A. Lovelace, she of 147 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: first computer programmer fame. She did note that Charles Babbage's 148 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: analytical engine might actually be able to compose some sort 149 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: of elaborate or scientific piece of music. So the idea 150 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: was there, she just wasn't the one implementing it. Yeah, 151 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: and she kicks off fantastic timeline of women in electronic 152 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: music over at the Vinyl Factory and is followed up 153 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: in seven by Dot Deal Corn, who was half of 154 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: Get This, a Victorian electro musical act, and was likely 155 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 1: the earliest professional female performer of an electrical musical instrument 156 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: in the UK. And she performed this song while in 157 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: tux in a top hat by the way, called Clickity Clack, 158 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 1: which featured electric castanets and clickity Clack is about as 159 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: musically complex as a song called clickity Clack. You know, 160 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: it sounds like so not exactly what we would consider 161 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: cutting edge and electronic music today, but back then, having 162 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: electrified castanettes playing along as you plunked on the on 163 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: the keys on your piano, it's pretty new wave. Yeah 164 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: so dot was super new wave, but not perhabs as 165 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: new wave as Thereman superstar Clara Rockmore, who came about 166 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen thirties, and she was a classically 167 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: trained Lithuanian musician with perfect pitch and perhaps the world's 168 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: first electronic music star. Yeah so Rockmore picked up The 169 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: Thereman after a health condition made it hard for her 170 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: to continue playing the violin, and she even came up 171 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 1: with a specific finger technique to play the instrument more precisely. 172 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: And if you look at pictures of her, she looks 173 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: so sublime, just like like she's holding her arms up 174 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: like what am I going to make for dinner? To me, 175 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: she looks a little bit like more Tisha from the 176 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: Adams Family with an updoe playing the Thereman. She's very otherworldly. Yeah, 177 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: the thing is she's picking up this instrument not too 178 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: long after Leon Thereman himself patented it, and she kind 179 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: of became his muse during this time. She so impressed 180 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: him with her abilities and her technique that he ended 181 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: up giving her an r C a model Thereman as 182 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: a gift, and she even inspired him and turned to 183 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: improve the design. And you know, she's so talented and 184 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: so more tisha that he can't help himself but be spitten, 185 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: and so he does propose marriage, I believe more than once, 186 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: and she declined. She ended up marrying some other guy, 187 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: but they stayed super close for the rest of their lives, 188 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: even after you know, he got like taken out of 189 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: the country and then came back and taken out again. 190 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: But whatever, And it's great to get Rockmore's perspective on 191 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: the instrument and playing it. In a seven interview with 192 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: synthesizer pioneer Bob Mogue, she talks about electronic instruments and 193 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: she says that people think of them as something that 194 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,959 Speaker 1: are new, eerie, strange, ugly, strident sounds. She says, now 195 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: that is completely the opposite of my approach. I am 196 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: a violinist and a musician. I wanted to see if 197 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: it were possible to use the theorem and to make 198 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 1: real music. Bach couldn't write for the theremin when he 199 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: was alive, but there's no reason why I can't play 200 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: back on the Theoremin today. And I think it's awesome 201 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: that she uses the example of Bach, because Bach will 202 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: resurface in our electronic music conversation a little bit later. 203 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: But the Theoremin actually sort of realizes those early scientific 204 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: men's desires to free themselves from the tyranny of the piano. 205 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: As rock Moore puts it, there is a certain terrific freedom. 206 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: You feel like a conductor in front of an orchestra. 207 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: There is no instrument between you and the music. Well, 208 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: and speaking of the music, moving on in our timeline, 209 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: in ninety eight, Joanna Buyer becomes the first woman to 210 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: compose a work scored for electronic instruments. Is called The 211 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: Music of the Spheres, and it's very avant garde. That's 212 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: the thing with a lot of this early electronic music. 213 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 1: Listening to it, it's either avant garde, as I just said, 214 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: or very sci fi sounding. Yeah, lots of like there 215 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: should be aliens. Yeah, speaking of which six yeah, BB Baron, 216 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: along with her husband Lewis, created the first electronic film score, 217 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: four Forbidden Planet, and this sort of starts. This Forbidden 218 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: Planets score kind of is one of the very first 219 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: dominoes to fall in the pre modern electronic music era, 220 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: because in we get electronic heavy hitter Daphne Orham, who 221 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 1: co founds the BBC's Radiophonic Workshop, becoming the first woman 222 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: to direct an electronic music studio. She was also among 223 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: the first to experiment with musique concrete, or basically the 224 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: technique of recording raw sounds on the environment and using 225 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 1: that as material to then create electronic music with so 226 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: using a key at you know, scraping against metal as 227 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: sort of sound effect, and then weaving that into your composition. 228 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: And so a year later, in nine nine, or Hum 229 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: becomes the first woman to set up a personal studio, 230 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: the Aoramic Studio for electronic composition. There she creates basically 231 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: electronic background music for theater, radio, TV, short films, and 232 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: even exhibits things that we would call sonic environments. And 233 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: she eventually did compose electronic pieces for feature films, concerts 234 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: and even a ballet. And it's notable to see what 235 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: sparked her interests. When she was a kid, she played piano, 236 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: so there you have that. But her electrical engineer brother 237 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: also helped her to build radio transmitters and receivers, and 238 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: you put that together and you have her getting her 239 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: start as a BBC music balancer and studio engineer, a 240 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: job that only open to women when men left to 241 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: fight in World War Two. And when she gets there, 242 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: she starts experimenting with synthetic sound in after becoming interested 243 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: into cathode ray oceloscope, which was used to display the 244 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: characteristics of sound waves graphically. And genius that Daphne is, 245 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: she thinks, huh, I wonder if I can reverse this 246 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: process and she figures it out. In nineteen sixty two, 247 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: she becomes the first one to design and build an 248 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: electronic music instrument with help called the Aeramic System, And 249 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: essentially it's an early sequencer, so it was a machine 250 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: that interpreted the composers drawn musical instructions. So shape was 251 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: used to tell the machine how things like pitch, vibrato, 252 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,119 Speaker 1: and volume come out. So she did it. She reversed 253 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: the oscilloscope. But this, of course was after when she 254 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: was younger, she had asked someone at the studio like, hey, 255 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: if I do this in reverse, will it read when 256 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: I what I'm doing? And I imagine she trailed off 257 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: as she got a blank stare from the man, who 258 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: then just said no, and the source that we're reading 259 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: was like, well yeah, or I'm just took that as 260 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: a challenge and was like, okay, fine, well I'm smarter 261 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: than you, so I'm gonna do this. Um. But in 262 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three, her contemporary composer and arrangement Delia Derbyshire, 263 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: who's basically like a cult star of early electronic music, 264 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: was also working in the BBC's Radiophonic Workshop, creates the 265 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: theme for Dr Who, one of the first theme songs 266 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: to be produced totally electronically. And so she takes this 267 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: guy Rob Grayner's score that he had written to become 268 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: the theme song, and without the aid of synthesizers, just 269 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: using oscillators and other little bits and Bob's of what 270 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: eventually would be part an actual synthesizer, creates this incredible 271 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: almost sonic experience, and Grainer when he heard it was like, 272 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 1: did I did I write that? And She's like, well, no, 273 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: not really, I did half of it, and so you 274 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: owe me half of the royalties for this theme song, 275 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: which she was denied. Yeah, that was part of the 276 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: Radiophonic Workshops rules where really only the main composer got 277 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: any royalties to which hardcore Doctor Who fans today cry fowl, 278 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:36,360 Speaker 1: Doctor Who fans love Delia Derbyshire. And she also, though 279 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: not surprisingly, had a background much like Daphne Orham in 280 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: music and math from college, and she went on to 281 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,159 Speaker 1: have an incredibly full and creative career, even working with 282 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: Paul McCartney. And she was also in demand among bands 283 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: who were interested in synthesizers. And just quickly I wanted 284 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: to note that while she was working with BBC's Radiophonic Workshop, 285 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: there was this uh soundscape that she did for a 286 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: documentary that took place in the Sahara Desert, and she 287 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: used this green lamp shade that when she struck it 288 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: made a pure frequency. She used it and then broke 289 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: down the various sounds from it and then rebuilt them 290 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: to create the background for these camels running through the desert, 291 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: and that green lamp shade is now really an icon 292 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 1: in the history of electronic music, listed, for instance, in 293 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 1: the BBC's for sound effects that made TV history. Whenever 294 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: you read about Delia Derbyshire, you always read about that 295 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: green lamp shade. Yeah, and she also talks about how 296 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: she used her own voice, essentially breaking it down into 297 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: parts for the sound effect of the camels running their hooves. 298 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: And so I mean she that that documentary is totally 299 00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 1: cited as a huge moment in electronic music. But a 300 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: game changer in all of this is Wendy Carlos. She's 301 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 1: a composer and instrument builder and a reluctant performer. She's 302 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: way more into the hole behind the scenes creation aspect, 303 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: and her Switched On Bach album, which was released in 304 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: nineteen is basically seen as the turning point where electronic 305 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: music becomes a thing and the mainstream takes notice. Yeah, 306 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: it went platinum and won three Grammys in nineteen seventy, 307 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: and so not only is electronic music getting this mainstream 308 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: recognition for the first time, it also encourages a lot 309 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: of other people to start creating music with synthesizers, and 310 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 1: Switched On Bach is essentially a reimagining of Bach using 311 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: a Moge synthesizer, because after all, she had helped Moge 312 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: develop it and was an early adopter. But when you 313 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: talked to Wendy Carlos about this, she's a little i 314 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: rolly about it. She says, quote listeners thought of a 315 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 1: synthesizer itself, the Moge synthesizer was a real musical instrument, 316 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: when all it really was was just a collection of 317 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 1: fairly limited sounds extrapolated from what had been available in 318 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: the fifties, put together in one extremely nice package with 319 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: a nice consistent interface and a keyboard that could supply 320 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 1: voltages and trigger so you could play notes. But you 321 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: still used it Wendy to create this hit record. Well, 322 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: I love that, she and she so she gives this 323 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: entire description that sounds like holy crap, that's a lot 324 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: of stuff. But she's like, and that was about it. 325 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: Because she goes on to say like she she hates 326 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: being almost pigeonholed as just the switched on Bach person, 327 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: like that's just the lady who did switched on box. 328 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: She's like, I don't ask you about things that you 329 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: did in the seventies, Like I've grown and changed since then. 330 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: You can't just put me into a box box. But 331 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: she basically was saying like, yes, I used it, and 332 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: I did something new with it and different with it 333 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: in terms of the moge synthesizer. But she's like, that's 334 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: just because that's what was there at the time. If 335 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: there had been something more advanced, I would have used that, 336 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: but I kind of used it was available to me. 337 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: And she should know. I mean, this woman has a 338 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: background in both physics and music, which is a theme 339 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: and just about everybody we've looked at so far. She 340 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: talks about how she actually did try to go into 341 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: physics first, but her grades kind of weren't up to snuff, 342 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 1: and she says, part of my whole personality is really 343 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: much more that of a person who would work in 344 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: the sciences. I don't find very much disparity between the 345 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 1: sciences and music. And so this, this whole field, this 346 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: career that she ended up with is just a continuation 347 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 1: of how when she was a kid she kind of 348 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: grew up tinkering with things and inventing things and putting 349 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: things together, and that grew into this amazing, like genius 350 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: career as an electronic composer and inventor that we see today. 351 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: And if you haven't heard Switched on Bach, maybe you've 352 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: seen Clockwork Orange the nineteen seventy one Kubrick film that 353 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: haunted my high school experience, and the soundtrack, which Carlos composed, 354 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: adds so much to that film, Like you take the 355 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: two apart, and it's not as eerie and as powerful 356 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: of a film as it is in The New York 357 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: Times at the time hailed it as a giant step 358 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 1: past the binalities of most contemporary film tracks. And then 359 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: in two she also did the score for Tron People. 360 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: I mean, she's like, she's got a lot of stuff 361 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: out there beyond just the switched on box stuff that 362 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 1: people really kind of culturally identify with. And another thing 363 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: that makes her such a fascinating character is that in 364 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: nine she came out as trans and she had been 365 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: living as a woman since ten years before that. Um, 366 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,880 Speaker 1: but she gave this fascinating Playboy interview which is such 367 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: an interesting time capsule about how people used to think 368 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:58,239 Speaker 1: and talk about trans people. But when Carlos, like, in 369 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 1: that interview, she says things that were so familiar with 370 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,719 Speaker 1: nowadays in terms of I wish people would say trans 371 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: or transgender instead of transsexual. And then the whole idea 372 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: of listen, I've always known I was a girl that 373 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: I was a woman, and it just took other people 374 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: a minute to catch up. Yeah. At one point the 375 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: interviewer asks her about the operation. Yea. At one point 376 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: the interview asked her about whether she had any castration 377 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: fear going into her operation, and she was enraged by 378 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: the suggestion of that. She was like, no, this wasn't 379 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: a removal, this was a corrective surgery for me. Um. 380 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: But she was also though followed by other prominent women 381 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 1: in electronic music, like a Peacock who was big on 382 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 1: synthesized vocals, Ellion Radigue who used synthesizers to create meditative 383 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: sounds so nice, and then Susan Siani who supplied sound 384 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: effects for Star Wars. What. Yes, a lot of women, 385 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 1: uh are working in this whole film scoring industry. People 386 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 1: are creating lots of incredible sound effects and scores that 387 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: you're probably familiar with. Um. You also have people like 388 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: Laurie Spiegel, who created an algorithmic composition software from mac 389 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: Atari and Amiga, and Lori Anderson, who is a composer 390 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: and performer and who also built her own instruments. She 391 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: ended up having hits in the nineteen eighties, became lou 392 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: Reid's wife. Um, but it's it's incredible to realize that 393 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: we just haven't as people who are kind of outside 394 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: the electronic music realm, we just aren't exposed to these 395 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: incredible women in their contributions to music, to electronica, to soundtracks. 396 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:47,959 Speaker 1: But there's so many names out there, and I just 397 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: wish that we had more time to talk about them. Well, 398 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: now that we have offered at least a brief history 399 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: of women in electronic music, let's fast forward and look 400 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: at women in electron music today, because the landscape has 401 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: definitely changed, but some things remain the same. Yeah, So 402 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: today's electronic music industry is huge. This is coming from 403 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: an April Billboard article that said that the electronic music 404 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: industry just in North America is worth about one point 405 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: nine billion dollars. Globally it's about six point two billion. 406 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: And they were talking about a report that analyzed revenue 407 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: from things like music sales and streaming from festivals and 408 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: clubs and things like that, and apparently dance track sales 409 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: hit and all time high. So where are the women 410 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: and all that? What's what's the equation? Well, when it 411 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: comes to live performances like if you go to, for instance, 412 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: Tomorrow World, you aren't going to see a ton of 413 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: women on stage. Female Pressure that we mentioned at the 414 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,959 Speaker 1: top of the podcast, looked into women's representation and survey 415 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: twenty one music labels and forty three festivals, which admittedly 416 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: small sample size, but they found that women represented just 417 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: five and eight point four percent of artists, respectively. And 418 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: then even if you include though mixed male female groups, 419 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: the numbers don't change all that much. In fact, the 420 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: number of festival acts drops to seven point seven And 421 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: so when you look at sort of the role that 422 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: women playing electronic music today and and their visibility and 423 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,440 Speaker 1: their participation um. The general theme that we found in 424 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: researching and reading blogs and and post like post talking 425 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 1: about this issue, the general themes tends to be that, yes, 426 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: we need more women participating, we need more visibility for women, 427 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: we want to hear more from women. Um. But also, 428 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: don't just focus on my gender, focus on the fact 429 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: that I'm an incredibly talented person who's been working hard 430 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: at this career for a long time. And we looked 431 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: at Pink Noises um Tera Rodgers, which is both a 432 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 1: book and a blog, and Rogers mentions the scholarship that's 433 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: been done around the topic of women in electronic music. 434 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 1: But she really takes issue with how so much of 435 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: it quote gives the impression that women are rarely present 436 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 1: in DJ, electronic music, and sound art cultures, that they 437 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: have not made significant contributions to these fields to the 438 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 1: extent that men have, or that gender categories ultimately pose 439 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: restrictions on professional survival. So basically, looking yes, looking deeper 440 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: into the gender issue of the music industry today, that's 441 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: a good thing, but just out of the gate, assuming 442 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: that women aren't present, that's not great. That that's sort 443 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 1: of an image that needs to be corrected. Well, it's 444 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 1: notable too that when it comes to seeking visibility, as 445 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 1: Melissa Fong wrote about over Ricochet, DJs are essentially gender neutral. 446 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: I mean you can have a gender neutral DJ name 447 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: you're using technology, So I mean we should have gender 448 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: neutral levels of accessibility as well. So she wonders why 449 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 1: more women aren't getting into particularly electronic music production. So 450 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 1: even as the question of is this the problem of 451 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: participation or visibility or are women avoiding it or simply 452 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: not seeking to be described as female? Because as well 453 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: talk about a little bit more in a minute. There 454 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: are some female DJs who intentionally go by gender neutral, 455 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: even masculine names, because they're like, I don't want to 456 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 1: be called a female DJ. Don't put me in your 457 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: lady's night lineup. Yeah, I mean, that's that's definitely part 458 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: of the issue. I mean, um, there are a lot 459 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: of women out there, but in terms of the people 460 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: who are working on their music in front of an audience, 461 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: perhaps some women are concealing their identities because they don't 462 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: want to be defined totally by their gender, or to 463 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: face exploitation, harassment, to be treated as different, to be asked, hey, 464 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,479 Speaker 1: can you dj and address us and heels, or like 465 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: what's it like to be a woman? You know, things 466 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: like that. A lot of women right to the Huffington's post, 467 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: for instance, about the term female DJ, and one of 468 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: those women, Jack Novak, says, I don't want to be 469 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: singled out as a woman. I want to be rewarded 470 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: on my own merit. Yeah. Annie Max similarly wrote a 471 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: whole thing for Vice after being enraged at a series 472 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: of questions that a reporter was asking her, including things like, 473 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: was how were you able to DJ while pregnant? What's 474 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: it like being a female DJ, do you experience sexism 475 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: all the time, essentially making her gender the focus and 476 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: not her music, And she said she's sick of being 477 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: asked about all of these women things. And also when 478 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: the reporter finally asked her a relevant question, asked her 479 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: to recommend some other electronic musicians she's into, she recommended 480 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: female artists and the response was, oh, well, are you 481 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: just supporting women? It's like, no, no, can we just 482 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: please make this about the music? Although Christie Schaefer of 483 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: Hideous Men is a little bit conflicting on the whole thing, yeah, 484 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: because she says, on the one hand, women should get 485 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: recognition for overcoming gender based restrictions really in any profession, 486 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: but she says constantly pointing it out can be mothering. Plus, 487 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: she says, listen, we don't use our genitals to play 488 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: our synthesizers, but could you? That really made me think, 489 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: because you could, you could. But but I think maybe 490 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: Shaffer doesn't evolve sizer. Oh my god, I love them on. 491 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: I have some ideas about what that could be, but 492 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: it is. I mean, some do find it problematic though, 493 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: when you have the what would that be called kind 494 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: of the vanity plate dj like when Lindsay Lohan got 495 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: into djaying there for a minute that some think only 496 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: amplifies these stereotypes about women DJs being fake or they're 497 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: just up there to look hot, like they're just they're 498 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: just put she play on a playlist, they're not doing 499 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: the real work. Well, honestly, there are plenty of guy 500 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: DJs who are just pressing a button. But Caroline, they're 501 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: real d j's. Come on, They're not playing any vulva 502 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: sizers up there. I wish, um, But there are a 503 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: lot of complaints that people like Lindsay Lohan or Paris Hilton, 504 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: for instance, who's like, I guess she's out of things 505 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: to do, so she's decided to pick up deejaying. But yeah, 506 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: but there are a lot of complaints, uh, from people 507 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: who are working hard at this every day as their 508 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: professional about people like Lindsay Lohan or people like Paris 509 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: Hilton who kind of do come in and just press 510 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: a button to get the publicity to maybe get money 511 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: out of making a club appearance. Um. And so that 512 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: one negative aspect ends up reflecting pretty poorly on women 513 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: who have been hard working in the industry all along, 514 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: and they end up getting belittled or mocked, especially when 515 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: it comes to appearance about you know, oh, well you're 516 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,479 Speaker 1: wearing a dress, so you're just trying to be sexy 517 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: or you're not sexy enough. It's like, as we see 518 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: in so many different industries, the whole looks thing comes 519 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: into play all the time too. Well, And there was 520 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: that whole kerfuffle over DJ Nina Kravitz who had a 521 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: documentary film crew following her around on tour and at 522 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: one point she doesn't interview both in a bikini, and 523 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: then at one point she doesn't interview in a bubble bath, 524 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: and people were like, WHOA, stop being so sexy, we 525 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: don't like this. And then she said, hey, it's my body. 526 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: I can do what I want with it. Stopped being 527 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: so sexist, And honestly, it just made me want to 528 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: go to your Spotify, your otis otis writing Spotify playlist 529 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: and have a little leadite moment. Yeah, it is sort 530 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: of like, hey, can we come out of the weeds 531 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: for a minute. I mean I agreed to an extent 532 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: with some of these DJs who are saying, can we 533 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: just stop asking women about being women and then talking 534 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: about what's sexist? Or what's feminist and just focus on 535 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: the work, because on the one hand, like, yes, no, 536 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: I do want to ask you about being a woman, 537 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: because the average your average music consumer doesn't know that 538 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: much about electronic music or like what goes into it 539 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: or the history of it. I mean, so people it's 540 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: natural that they're curious about being a woman in especially 541 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: like in techno or in you know, fields of electronic 542 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: music that are so sort of overrun by that BROWI 543 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: sort of just like white guy image and so yes, 544 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: like I would be curious about it. But on the 545 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: other hand, you do kind of want to encourage people 546 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: to move past just focusing on gender and saying let's 547 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: let's talk about your music. Well, why don't we move 548 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: past gender to talk about the queering of music, because 549 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: this was an interesting theme to emerge in what we 550 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: were reading as well, where you do have some like 551 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: E d M artists and DJs who are intentionally confronting well, 552 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: gender identity, yes, and sexuality through music. Yeah, And I 553 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: mean it's hardly a stretch to view electronic tools and 554 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: instruments as a queering of music. This is all the 555 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: way back to the late nineteenth early twentieth centuries when 556 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: people are like, I am so sick of the piano. 557 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 1: I want to create spaces in between those notes and 558 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,879 Speaker 1: tones where I can create something special. Um And so 559 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 1: along those lines, Electronic Beats Magazine in profiled three acts 560 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 1: in particular who they said, we're challenging traditional power structures 561 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: through this most unlikely of musical forms, and we're connecting 562 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: the more fability of sound synthesis with thoughts on the 563 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: fluidity of gender identity. And so one of the people 564 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: they talked to was Jam a k A. Janine Rostrun 565 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,760 Speaker 1: a k A. Planning to Rock, who's a gender neutral 566 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: artist with tracks that include Patriarchy Over and Out, Misogyny, 567 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: Dropped Dead, and the queer disco track Let's Talk About 568 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,240 Speaker 1: Gender Baby, which is now the official soundtrack of Sminty 569 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 1: I just decided. But Planning to Rock really plays with 570 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,280 Speaker 1: their voice. They're not trying to sound like a man necessarily, 571 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: but instead using their voice as an instrument, just like 572 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 1: the rest of the sounds that come into play in 573 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: their music and their attitude and this interview is basically like, 574 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: this is a great time. This is a great time 575 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: to be a human, let alone an electronic musician playing 576 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: with gender because they said changes in the air. You've 577 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: got more female journalists who are finding their voice and planning. 578 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,919 Speaker 1: Dra goes on to say that they're super excited about 579 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: issues of intersectionality and gender fluidity finding their way into 580 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: more mainstream media and taking it back a step from 581 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: today to the origins of where this intersection between gender 582 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:56,760 Speaker 1: identity and electronic music was really coming from. Electronic Beats 583 00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: also talked to Terry Fameless, a k a. D J Sprinkles, 584 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: who Fact Magazine described as a deep house idle, queer theorist, 585 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: media manipulator, and seasoned contrarian, which is a fantastic description. 586 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: Um and DJ Sprinkles came out as trans in the eighties, 587 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 1: which was a period quote when disco and dance music 588 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: were still explicitly hot wired to queer culture, and Sprinkles 589 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 1: feels that house music's queer roots have been cleansed with 590 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: its main streaming, so that helps you know, connect the 591 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: dots as to why there might be this renewed interest 592 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: today in reclaiming those kinds of roots and really playing 593 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: around with identity as it relates to music. And this 594 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: is something also echoed by The Knife, a k a 595 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: Swedish siblings Olof Drajer and Karen Drejer Anderson, who are 596 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: committed to challenging gender and power norms and applying feminist, 597 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,839 Speaker 1: queer and academic theories to real life. Which who knew 598 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 1: that electronic music could be that loaded? But yes, indeed 599 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, And of course, you know, we we 600 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 1: haven't talked about. We mentioned very briefly how some of 601 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: the instrumentation that was developed as military uh technology which 602 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: was then used in early hip hop. We touched on that, 603 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: but we haven't even had the time to dig into 604 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: queer culture, nor have we really had the time to 605 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: dig into where the women and other people of color 606 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: are in this conversation. And that's something that Zell McCarthy 607 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 1: at Vice pointed out in an article in March of 608 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: and he really lamented one the lack of women in 609 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 1: the dance music industry and to the positioning of women 610 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: and color, women of color as objects to look at 611 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,280 Speaker 1: rather than as DJs to listen to. And he cites 612 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: people like Diplo whose videos feature the rear ends of 613 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 1: many a woman, usually women of color, and so from 614 00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: there he kind of branches off. McCarthy does into talking 615 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: about this issue that we see in a lot of 616 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: industries that whoever the gatekeeper is to sort of allowing 617 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: new people to surface, the people they let through a 618 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: lot of times tend to look like themselves. And so 619 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: when you have club owners, promoters, or even popular publications, 620 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,799 Speaker 1: they might not be consciously sexist or racist, but if 621 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,440 Speaker 1: they're promoting their friends or people that they're familiar with, 622 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 1: you sort of get that in group effect where everybody 623 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 1: ends up looking like those gatekeepers or those tastemakers. McCarthy 624 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: even cited a talent buyer who said that one club 625 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,439 Speaker 1: wouldn't book an act because the women weren't hot enough, 626 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 1: And that can be a big deal obviously, because if 627 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: you're not getting booked, then you're not getting the money. 628 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: And there's so much money, particularly right now in E 629 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 1: d M. And so if those people who look or 630 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: sound different aren't getting past the gate, then there are 631 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: fewer opportunities open to them. And yeah, I mean a 632 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: lot of this does go back to the money. But 633 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: McCarthy kind of pulls us back and says, but wait, 634 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: we can't forget what he says the essence of what 635 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: dance music is and should be, because yeah, Okay, it's 636 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: all about the money, yes, yes, But remember dance music 637 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 1: as we know it was originated by black, Latino and 638 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: queer artists who wanted to create safe spaces for people 639 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: disenfranchised by mainstream society. So I mean, who not that 640 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: way anymore? It seems like in a lot of ways, 641 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: I mean McCarthy also praises the d M community, like 642 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 1: the people in the audience, for being very like open 643 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 1: and accepting and very fluid with gender and sexuality and 644 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: all these kinds of things. Um, But on the industry side, 645 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,719 Speaker 1: it does seem like the more mainstream that you get, 646 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: the more that door starts to close. So, Kristen, we 647 00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 1: have now gone from the nineteenth century through to the 648 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 1: raves to today people who are out there crafting incredible 649 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 1: music that serves as a commentary on gender identity. I mean, 650 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,439 Speaker 1: that's way far removed from them from the dynamic phone 651 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: it was two hundred tons. But what's not different and 652 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 1: what I love and I hope I don't sound too 653 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: cheesy for saying this, is that the common thread of 654 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: wanting to use this electronic music and technology and sounds 655 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: to throw off sort of the tyranny of the traditional 656 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 1: way that society operates through, that music operates through, that 657 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: sound operates. That's the common thing is that whether you're 658 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,360 Speaker 1: saying I want to challenge the patriarchy or gender norms, 659 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,439 Speaker 1: or whether you're saying I want to challenge the way 660 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 1: that sounds are created, it's all coming from this beautiful, 661 00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:03,399 Speaker 1: like scientific uh, just desire to yate and create beautiful differences. Well, 662 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: I think it's time now to hear from listeners. Do 663 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,359 Speaker 1: we have any electronic music fans in our audience? Are 664 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,839 Speaker 1: there any theoreman players? I really was just I am 665 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 1: so so enthralled by the theorem and right now, um, 666 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: let us know all of your thoughts. Any DJs listening, 667 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,799 Speaker 1: do you ever confront this kind of stuff? Because really 668 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: we touched on so many different things. So whatever sparked 669 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,600 Speaker 1: your interest, let us know. Moms Stuff at house stuff 670 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: works dot Com is our email address. You can also 671 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: tweet us at mom stuff podcasts, or messages on Facebook, 672 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,239 Speaker 1: and we've got a couple of messages to share with 673 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:41,920 Speaker 1: you right now. So I've got a Facebook message here 674 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: from David and I wanted to share this because sometimes 675 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 1: we hear from fellas who are like, hey, we never 676 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:54,279 Speaker 1: hear from the fellas who right in. So David, you're 677 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:55,799 Speaker 1: a fella and this is what you have to say, 678 00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,080 Speaker 1: David Rights. I'm currently listening to your social justice or 679 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: yours episode, and I thought i'd let you know that 680 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 1: I'm super glad I found your podcast recently. I'm a 681 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 1: Christian who is white, upper class, this gender, heterosexual, and mail. 682 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: I love how balanced and neutral you are in your discussions, 683 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 1: and I find it very helpful to think about how 684 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: things are for those who aren't given the same opportunities 685 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 1: as I've been. Well, I don't know if I'll ever 686 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,400 Speaker 1: be able to remove all of my biases. Your podcast 687 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 1: definitely helps me remove some of them, So thanks, he says. Ps. 688 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,320 Speaker 1: I've just graduated as a nurse and would love it 689 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,400 Speaker 1: if you did an episode on the nursing profession as 690 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,239 Speaker 1: a whole, or if you wanted to go a bit 691 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 1: more in depth. Males in Nursing would make for a 692 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:41,799 Speaker 1: great episode, And I sent David a link to our 693 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: nursing podcast because friends, we have done it and you 694 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,320 Speaker 1: can find it over at stuff Mom Never Told You 695 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,240 Speaker 1: dot com. So thanks, David. Well, I have a Facebook 696 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 1: message here from Becca about our sci Fi episode. She says, 697 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 1: I got really excited this week on my drive to 698 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: work when I started listening to your science fiction podcast. 699 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:01,759 Speaker 1: As I type, I'm sitting in my pajamas with a 700 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,800 Speaker 1: cup of coffee, watching Battlestar Galactica, researching time travel and 701 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,520 Speaker 1: making notes on the storytelling and characters from my own 702 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,399 Speaker 1: sci fi novel. Well, I do want a very real 703 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,160 Speaker 1: science background to what I'm writing. I hadn't even thought 704 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 1: about the social impact that a hopefully one day successful 705 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,799 Speaker 1: sci fi novel could have. Then I remembered The Time 706 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,360 Speaker 1: Machine by H. G. Wells that I have only recently 707 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,960 Speaker 1: just read. A writer friend of mine and I were 708 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 1: discussing the fact that it seemed more like a social 709 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: commentary than science fiction. It reinforced everything you were saying. 710 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,200 Speaker 1: The point I'm trying to make is that it has 711 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,719 Speaker 1: influenced how I want to write and the ideas that 712 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 1: I want to get across to the reader. Even more 713 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,640 Speaker 1: than that, I'm twenty six weeks pregnant with a little 714 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,400 Speaker 1: girl whose name will be Aria after Arias Stark, a 715 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,080 Speaker 1: strong female character, and I want to make my own 716 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,439 Speaker 1: small change that will make a difference to the world. 717 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,440 Speaker 1: She will grow up in I'm still working and developing 718 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,640 Speaker 1: my story and plan to do a lot of writing 719 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: on maternity leave, but thanks to you, there will be 720 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,839 Speaker 1: something more that wasn't there before. Again, thanks for all 721 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,719 Speaker 1: your efforts, and if one day I'm lucky enough to 722 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,160 Speaker 1: have this story published, I would love to point out 723 00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 1: your influence well. Thank you, Becca, and thanks to everybody 724 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,759 Speaker 1: who's written into us. Mom step at house Stepworks dot 725 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,880 Speaker 1: Com is our email address and for links to all 726 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,120 Speaker 1: of our social media as well as all of our blogs, 727 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:21,680 Speaker 1: videos and podcasts, including this one. So you can read 728 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: up on the fascinating history of women in electronic music, 729 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,960 Speaker 1: head on over to Stuff Mom Never Told You dot com.