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Speaker 1: Up next, The Truth with Lisa Booth. Part of the

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Speaker 1: game which teachers unions care about their pocketbooks, politicians care

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Speaker 1: about their agendas. But who's looking out for the best

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Speaker 1: interests of you know, the students. Too few people in

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Speaker 1: positions of power seem to be asking that question. So

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Speaker 1: today I found out why this is the Truth with

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Speaker 1: Lisa Booth. Welcome back to the Truth with Lisa Booth.

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Speaker 1: I've got an amazing show for you guys. This week.

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Speaker 1: My guest has taken on the teachers unions, which of

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Speaker 1: course meant that she was one of the most attacked

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Speaker 1: members of President Trump's cabinet. She is former Secretary of

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Speaker 1: Education Betsy Divas, who worked for the Trump administration from

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Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen to January of this year. Secretary Divas

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Speaker 1: has been deeply involved in education policy for decades, working

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Speaker 1: tirelessly as a passionate advocate of school choice. As she

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Speaker 1: described in two thousand thirteen interview, quote, what we're trying

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Speaker 1: to do is tear down the mindset that assigns students

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Speaker 1: to a school based solely on the zip code of

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Speaker 1: their families home. We advocate instead for as much freedom

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Speaker 1: as possible. Secretary Divace is the former chair of both

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Speaker 1: the American Federation for Children and also the Philanthropy Roundtable

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Speaker 1: Board of Directors. She also served on a number of

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Speaker 1: other local and national boards, including Art Prize, the American

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Speaker 1: Enterprise Institute, the Foundation for Excellence and Education, and Divoce

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Speaker 1: Institute for Arts Management at the University of Maryland. She

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Speaker 1: also served as the chair of the Michigan Republican Party

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Speaker 1: from nineteen ninety six to two thousand and from two

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Speaker 1: thousand three to two thousand five. I want to bring

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Speaker 1: on Secretary Divorce to have a wide ranging and in

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Speaker 1: depth conversation about the state of America's education system today,

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Speaker 1: especially as her schools continue to face unprecedented challenges during COVID,

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Speaker 1: school choice, Title nine reforms, teachers unions, and even critical

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Speaker 1: race theory. I promise we're going to cover it all today,

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Speaker 1: and with that, I want to welcome to the show

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Speaker 1: the former Secretary of Education, Betsy Divas. I'm so excited

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Speaker 1: to have this conversation because a lot of you know, conservatives,

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Speaker 1: we talk about things like school choice, but sometimes there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of nuance into in it, and so I

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Speaker 1: really just want to break it all down with you.

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Speaker 1: But before we get started on that, this is really

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Speaker 1: even before you served as Secretary of Education. This has

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Speaker 1: really been a passion of yours. You've served on boards,

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Speaker 1: You've invested a lot of money, a lot of time

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Speaker 1: on this issue. Why why does school choice means so

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Speaker 1: much to you? Well, Lasi, you're right. I mean, for

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Speaker 1: more than three decades, I've been working on and advocating

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Speaker 1: for families, for parents to have the ability to make

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Speaker 1: decisions and control where their kids and how their kids

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Speaker 1: go to school and learn. And um. It started frankly,

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Speaker 1: when my oldest son, who just turned thirty nine, was

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Speaker 1: starting kindergarten, and I began to get involved at a

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Speaker 1: a small urban Christian school in my hometown of Grand Rapids.

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Speaker 1: The more I volunteered, the more I realized there were

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Speaker 1: families there that loved having their kids there, but many

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Speaker 1: families who wish they could have their kids there. For

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Speaker 1: probably know, probably ten to twenty as many families tend

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Speaker 1: to tend to twenty times more families that would have

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Speaker 1: loved to have their children in that kind of a

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Speaker 1: school but simply can't afford it. Couldn't afford it. And

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Speaker 1: so what began as a volunteer activity. Soon um really

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Speaker 1: grew into an issue of fairness and justice from my perspective,

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Speaker 1: and having been involved in a lot of partisan politics

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Speaker 1: at the same time, I realized ultimately that the only

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Speaker 1: way to bring these kinds of opportunities to families was

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Speaker 1: really to change public policy, and you had to do

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Speaker 1: that with a political element involved. Well. And that's why

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Speaker 1: I've never understood about some of the attacks against you

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Speaker 1: from the left, because look, you're you're wealthy. That's great,

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Speaker 1: i I'm working on it. You know, there's nothing wrong

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Speaker 1: with being wealthy in America. But if you're wealthy, you

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Speaker 1: can you can you have school choice, right, You have

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to to send your kids to private schools.

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Speaker 1: You have the opportunity to move to a better zip codes,

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Speaker 1: your kid is in a better school district, and to

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Speaker 1: get a better education. It's really the fight for the

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Speaker 1: people who don't have those same resources, who don't have

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Speaker 1: that same income level. That's why I've really never understood

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Speaker 1: those attacks against you, because it's not for wealthy individuals.

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Speaker 1: This is a fight for people who can't afford the

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Speaker 1: same access who deserve it. No, that's exactly right, And

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Speaker 1: you know the media has been complicit in obfus skating

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Speaker 1: the issue for many, many years because the politicians who

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Speaker 1: sit and and are loyal to the teachers union, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're the ones that also have made choices themselves.

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Speaker 1: And they're total hypocrites when it comes to denying families

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Speaker 1: who they profess to want to help. Um, they're just

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Speaker 1: total hypocrites when they're sending their children to private schools,

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Speaker 1: whether they're faith based or otherwise. And uh, and denying

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Speaker 1: that same opportunity to families that can't afford to to

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Speaker 1: write the tuition checks. Well, and and so before we

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Speaker 1: get in, I do want to talk to you about

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Speaker 1: the teachers unions and really dig in to that a

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Speaker 1: little bit further. But so my understanding is when you

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Speaker 1: look at school choice more broadly, it falls under two buckets.

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Speaker 1: You have private school choice and then you have public

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Speaker 1: school choice. Can you kind of break down those two

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Speaker 1: buckets for the people listening? Sure, So a lot of

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Speaker 1: people get really confused when we talk about school choice,

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Speaker 1: and some of them think that school choice simply means

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Speaker 1: charter schools or the ability to go to a charter school.

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Speaker 1: Let's be really really clear. Charter schools are public schools

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Speaker 1: that are funded with public money's public tax dollars and UM.

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Speaker 1: The difference for charter schools is that they are independently

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Speaker 1: operated from others in their you know, in their region

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Speaker 1: or in their district or their system. And UH that

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Speaker 1: is that has been a real storn in the eyes

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Speaker 1: of those who want to protect the system and to

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Speaker 1: keep all of the power and control and resources for themselves.

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Speaker 1: So the teachers unions have continued to fight against charters

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Speaker 1: because it represents a lack of ability for them to

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Speaker 1: control the other part of school choice. There are many

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Speaker 1: different mechanisms for it. But when public funds, when tax

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Speaker 1: payer funds flow to UH private schools, whether they're faith

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Speaker 1: based schools or virtual schools, or whether they're buying a

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Speaker 1: course from a university or UM you know, some other

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Speaker 1: mechanism that can be done through UH a tax credit

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Speaker 1: at a state level. It could be done through a

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Speaker 1: direct vulture amount. It can be done through an education

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Speaker 1: savings accounts where money's are are attributed or you know,

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Speaker 1: given to a family to then buy different education resources

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Speaker 1: and customize education. UH. There's there's different mechanisms to choose

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Speaker 1: non public or private providers of education as well, and

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Speaker 1: it's been I think it's been really difficult for a

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Speaker 1: lot of people to envision what this could look like

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Speaker 1: for themselves or that you know, their children or grandchildren

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Speaker 1: until really recently, in this last year, when school shut down,

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Speaker 1: many didn't reopen, and families began looking for alternative ways

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Speaker 1: for their child learn to continue learning. And suddenly I

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Speaker 1: think many eyes that you know, many parents eyes have

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Speaker 1: been opened across the country around what what school choice

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Speaker 1: could mean or could be for their children. And we've seen,

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Speaker 1: you know, states take additional actions. I believe it's West

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Speaker 1: Virginia and Kentucky. You know, they've signed a new new

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Speaker 1: school choice expansions this year. How much more, you know,

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Speaker 1: how many more states or what kind of engagement do

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Speaker 1: you think we're going to see from parents who quite frankly,

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Speaker 1: are just fed up with schools being closed and feeling

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Speaker 1: like their kids aren't getting educated yet. You know, a

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Speaker 1: lot of these public schools have surpluses or have certainly

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Speaker 1: have enough money to open well exactly. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that I have been very proud of what

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Speaker 1: what our team did while we were at the Department

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Speaker 1: of Education was to really bring the whole issue and

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Speaker 1: notion of school choice to the foreground. We really live

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Speaker 1: prairie fire under the notion of money following the student

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Speaker 1: instead of money going to a building or a system.

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Speaker 1: And when the shutdowns occurred last spring, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: we are now in a place where many states are

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Speaker 1: considering legislation to either expand programs that they already have

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Speaker 1: or in many cases, states are introducing programs where they

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Speaker 1: haven't even thought of entertaining them before. And you mentioned

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Speaker 1: West Virginia. They just passed what is nearly a universal

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Speaker 1: for for every student in West Virginia, the possibility to

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Speaker 1: access one of these education savings accounts, So students there

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Speaker 1: could buy tutoring services or they could buy classes online

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Speaker 1: for um, you know, if their school is open and

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Speaker 1: they're attending but their school doesn't offer something they want,

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Speaker 1: or if their school isn't open and isn't doing, um

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Speaker 1: what it is there to do, the parents can take

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Speaker 1: that education savings account and take and put their children

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Speaker 1: in a school that is going to meet their needs.

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Speaker 1: So West Virginia just you know, came along and joined

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Speaker 1: the crowd on on school choice. Kentucky very recently as well. UM,

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Speaker 1: and this is another really interesting phenomenon because the governor

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Speaker 1: there um the legislature passed the tax credit legislation to

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Speaker 1: establish a tax credit. The governor vetoed it in spite

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Speaker 1: of the fact that he himself sends his own children

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Speaker 1: to a private school and h then then then the

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Speaker 1: legislature overrode his depo to establish the program. So it's uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a win for the kids in Kentucky, UM,

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Speaker 1: Florida and Arizona and Indiana are considering historic expansions of

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Speaker 1: programs that they've had. South Dakota has expanded their tax

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Speaker 1: credit program. Oklahoma just pass legislation to have money followed

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Speaker 1: the students within any public school system while between systems.

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Speaker 1: So the whole issue of empowering families to make these

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Speaker 1: choices has really caught fire. And um the shutdowns from

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Speaker 1: the pandemic and the ways that the teachers unions have

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Speaker 1: responded or not responded have really precipitated a lot of

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Speaker 1: this move and frankly continue to to build the uh,

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Speaker 1: the resolve of families to do what they need to

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Speaker 1: do for their kids. Well, and it seems to be

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Speaker 1: the case, I believe did you say it was the

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Speaker 1: governor's child goes to private school, Governor Bushier's children go

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Speaker 1: to private school. Well, and that seems to be the

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Speaker 1: case with so many of these politicians. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: remember Governor Newsome got flat because he was sending his

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Speaker 1: kids back to private school and Sacramento and public schools

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Speaker 1: were shut down, so those students weren't afforded the same opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Or there was a union leader in Berkeley, California opposing

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Speaker 1: opening schools. However he was sending his kid to a

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Speaker 1: private school. So why do so many of these politicians,

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Speaker 1: primarily on the left, they want that great education for

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Speaker 1: their kids, but they're denying it for other children. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think too many of them are frankly totally beholden

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Speaker 1: to the teachers union because the perception, at least I

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Speaker 1: think what they believe is that you can't cross the

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Speaker 1: teachers Union or you're going to get punished in your

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Speaker 1: next primary or your next you know, your next race

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Speaker 1: for for reelection and um. And this is the This

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Speaker 1: is simply untenable and and tragic for millions of kids

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Speaker 1: across the country who for months have been either denied

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Speaker 1: a full on robots education or you know, or been

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Speaker 1: treated to something that is so meager and so inadequate

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Speaker 1: that the implications are going to be felt for decades,

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Speaker 1: if not their entire lifetime. And so um. I think again,

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Speaker 1: the demand is continuing to grow, and I firmly believe

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Speaker 1: that more and more politicians are going to realize they

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Speaker 1: cannot be on the wrong side of this issue any longer.

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Speaker 1: But you've got people like the president of the American

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Speaker 1: Federation of Teachers, Randy Weygardan, who recently said an interview, Look,

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Speaker 1: kids are resilient and they will recover. Is that true. Well,

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Speaker 1: we don't have h we don't have any good measures

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Speaker 1: of how much is going to be lost, particularly on

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Speaker 1: the part of the kids who are the most vulnerable.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the kids whose families have been able to

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Speaker 1: figure out an alternative or go and pay for an alternative.

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Speaker 1: Those kids are ultimately probably going to be okay. But

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Speaker 1: it's just heartbreaking to hear some of the stories of

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Speaker 1: kids who's uh, you know, who are who are attempting

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Speaker 1: to sit in front of a computer screen for an

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Speaker 1: hour or maybe two a day, for whom it simply

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Speaker 1: doesn't work and uh and and for whom the instruction

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Speaker 1: is a fraction of what they would get if they

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Speaker 1: were actually in class in person and not having that

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Speaker 1: one on one or that direct human contact. We don't

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Speaker 1: know what the long term implications are going to be,

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Speaker 1: but we know from the short term that it's going

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Speaker 1: to be devastating for millions of kids. And I think

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Speaker 1: about the story I heard of a young man, an

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Speaker 1: athlete in New Mexico who um, you know, home in

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Speaker 1: isolation for months on end, who kept, you know, wanting

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Speaker 1: to be back in school, wanting to play on his

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Speaker 1: sporting teams or his his sports teams, and um and

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Speaker 1: who ultimately, uh took his life because he had he

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Speaker 1: ultimately ran out of hope. And there's more than one

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Speaker 1: story like that, and it's just simply tragic. And uh,

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Speaker 1: the longer that the teachers unions continued to put up roadblocks,

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Speaker 1: the more tragic stories we're going to hear like that

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Speaker 1: young man. Well, and I saw one children's hospital out

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Speaker 1: of San Francisco said that they had they had seen

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Speaker 1: a sixty six percent increase in the number of suicide

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Speaker 1: suicidal children and the emergency room. So certainly when you

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Speaker 1: hear statistics like that, and the story that you just mentioned.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's it's really sad, and it really gets

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Speaker 1: to the question of why some of these schools haven't

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Speaker 1: been reopened. There's this study that was done by I

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Speaker 1: hope I'm not butchering their names, mccrey, D'Angelis and UH

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Speaker 1: Christo's macreadys, and essentially the research found that UH schools

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Speaker 1: closures had more to do with union influence rather than

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Speaker 1: sientific concerns about COVID. And they actually looked at twelve

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Speaker 1: thousand school districts nationwide in their research. So why are

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Speaker 1: these teachers unions so opposed to reopening? Well, I see,

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Speaker 1: I think they they saw and see an opportunity to

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Speaker 1: get more control, more resources. And I go back to

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Speaker 1: last spring, when it was clear from all of the

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Speaker 1: data that was coming in really around the world. You know,

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Speaker 1: European children went back to school already last spring, and

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Speaker 1: when President Trump and I began calling for schools to reopen, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, you would have thought, um that we were

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Speaker 1: asking for an impossibility based on what we were experiencing.

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Speaker 1: But the reality was that kids were safely going back

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Speaker 1: to school all over the world and it was nothing

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Speaker 1: but the union in in you know, in transigence and

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Speaker 1: frankly flexing muscle and power and uh and and control

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Speaker 1: to ultimately deny the most vulnerable kids, uh their opportunity

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Speaker 1: to continue to learn. And they're doing it yet today.

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Speaker 1: I mean the fact that teachers in Fairfax County, right

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Speaker 1: outside of d c UM, you know, kept moving the

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Speaker 1: goal has kept moving the goalposts. Well, we have to

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Speaker 1: wait until the teachers are vaccinated. While now the teachers

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Speaker 1: are vaccinated, and now it's something else not opening in

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Speaker 1: person again. Uh. You know the schools in California where

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Speaker 1: more than a fifth of the teachers have said they

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Speaker 1: don't intend to return to school as required this month. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It is in primarily in these large urban districts where

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Speaker 1: the teachers unions are the most powerful, and we're frankly

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Speaker 1: where the kids are most in need of being in school,

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Speaker 1: in in class a hundred percent of the time, where

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Speaker 1: they're the ones who are getting hurt in the process.

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Speaker 1: And and frankly, they're the ones that I have continued

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Speaker 1: to fight for for more than thirty five years. Now, Well,

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Speaker 1: you're right, because that that's what's sad about this because

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Speaker 1: a lot of families with wealth, you know, they're creating

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Speaker 1: pod type education for their kids. They're right, they're pulling

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Speaker 1: their kids at a public school sending them to private schools.

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Speaker 1: They have options, and you know, sadly, it's a lot

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Speaker 1: of families that don't have that same income level who

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Speaker 1: don't have those options. So, you know a lot of

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Speaker 1: kids are falling behind who just don't have that education

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Speaker 1: or don't have that financial income, uh to to to

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Speaker 1: get the right kind of education right now. Exactly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think it was in Tennessee that recently did a

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Speaker 1: study and they estimated that outboards with learning loss and

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Speaker 1: reading and math um for kids who haven't been in school. Uh. Well,

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Speaker 1: you you know, you can't expect that kids are going

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Speaker 1: to regain that learning loss by going back to the

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Speaker 1: same situation, the same type of classrooms, the same uh

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Speaker 1: you know, the same construct that they left before. There

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Speaker 1: are ways for them to make up learning losses, but

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Speaker 1: it's not going to be returning to the same system

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Speaker 1: and in the same way of doing things, because they've

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Speaker 1: demonstrated time and time again they cannot get it done.

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Speaker 1: So teachers unions obviously have a stranglehold over the left

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Speaker 1: and liberal politicians. You know how exactly do they work.

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Speaker 1: How do they obtain that kind of power. Well, they've

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Speaker 1: they've been very strategic about it. And remember the Department

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Speaker 1: of Education was stood up in ninety nine at the

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Speaker 1: end of the President Carter's term UM as a payoff

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Speaker 1: to the teachers union and by uh, you know, establishing

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Speaker 1: the federal Department of Education the ability to try to

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Speaker 1: centralize and control education even though states ultimately have have

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Speaker 1: that right and have that power on the state by

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Speaker 1: state basis. UM, they have continued to solidify and and

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Speaker 1: uh and you know, and gather that control um administration

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Speaker 1: after administration. We saw it during the Obama administration. I'm

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Speaker 1: fearful about what the Widen administration is going to do. UM.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing them, you know, grant waivers to state UM

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Speaker 1: to basically uh skirts their accountability requirements. My own home

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Speaker 1: state of Michigan, they have they've given Michigan waiver authority

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Speaker 1: to not identify the lowest five per cent of school

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Speaker 1: schools as a you know, on a performance metric. And

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Speaker 1: and they're holding back billions of dollars from the the

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Speaker 1: CARES and and American Recovery Acts in order to control

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Speaker 1: what happens at the state and local level from Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. And so they continued, UM, they continued, you know,

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Speaker 1: gathering of powers and focus of power at the federal level,

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Speaker 1: UM at the extent of state and local districts is

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Speaker 1: uh I think points to their their long term strategy

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Speaker 1: and has continued to pay offs and and frankly, in

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Speaker 1: too many cases, federally elected Republicans have been UM either

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Speaker 1: asleep or complicit in in helping to solidify that power.

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Speaker 1: And I think parents, I know parents are are having

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Speaker 1: their eyes opened, and they're awakening to the fact that

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Speaker 1: they have got to reclaim and reassert that control and

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Speaker 1: that ability to decide their kids futures and their education.

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Speaker 1: You know, many of them sitting behind their kids watching

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Speaker 1: what they've been learning remotely, UM, They're they're aware what

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Speaker 1: their kids are or aren't learning. Many of them are

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Speaker 1: concerned about the content and the quality of what they're learning.

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Speaker 1: So I think, I think again, this the whole uh

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Speaker 1: COVID issue has really helped to UM point out why

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Speaker 1: a nationalized school system does not work and why we

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Speaker 1: have to do a tremendous pivot from where we've been

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Speaker 1: and really put power back into the hands of families

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Speaker 1: and have funds follow the students to the the education

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Speaker 1: location of their choice. Well, and it's a political winner too.

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Speaker 1: I mean you look at polling. The majority of Americans

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Speaker 1: support school choice, independence democrats, majority of minority parents support

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Speaker 1: school choice. So it is a political winner. And I

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Speaker 1: think at the heart even some on the left support

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Speaker 1: I mean you look at someone like Senator Corey Booker.

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Speaker 1: He used to be a big pronent proponent of school choice.

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Speaker 1: He went to an event you held in Michigan debating

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Speaker 1: in favor of school choice. He has served on pro

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Speaker 1: voucher boards with you, He has backed vouchers charter schools.

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Speaker 1: But then he gave a dramatic speech in two seventeen

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Speaker 1: actually opposing your nomination. Why did he do such a

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Speaker 1: flip flop on such an important issue because he fancied

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Speaker 1: himself president and he didn't want to get on the

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Speaker 1: wrong side of the teacher union. I mean, that's the

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Speaker 1: bottom line, and that's sad because it's the you know,

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Speaker 1: the kids who inevitably lose in the end, and that's

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Speaker 1: what that's what really bothers me about why Republicans and

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Speaker 1: why we just I mean, this should be this is

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Speaker 1: you know, a civil rights movement and a sense a

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Speaker 1: human rights issue in the sense of why should kids

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Speaker 1: why should there zip code determine the kind of education

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Speaker 1: to get? We know, education is so important on what

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Speaker 1: kind of person you're going to be in the future,

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Speaker 1: the opportunities that are you can be presented you in

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Speaker 1: the future, and it's it's disturbing that there's not more support.

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Speaker 1: I mean this, I mean this should be the fight. Yes,

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Speaker 1: absolutely agreed, And I think, um, I think one of

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Speaker 1: the challenges for some Republicans, and it's I think it's

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Speaker 1: particularly those that represent rural areas, is they don't really

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Speaker 1: see what's in it for their constituents because they don't

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Speaker 1: see a you know, second school being built next to

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Speaker 1: that little rural you k through twelve school there aren't

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Speaker 1: enough kids perhaps or whatever. And I challenge them and say,

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Speaker 1: that isn't the extent of what school choice looks like.

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Speaker 1: School choice looks like a lot of different forms. If

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Speaker 1: there's a handful of kids in that small rural school

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Speaker 1: who learn differently, there's no reason that with school choice

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Speaker 1: they couldn't take the funds meant for them and have

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Speaker 1: informed a separate, little micro school that might exist right

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Speaker 1: within that same school building, or a student in uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, their junior or senior year to making a

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Speaker 1: class online from a provider, a high quality provider anywhere

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Speaker 1: in the world, but buying that because they've made the

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Speaker 1: choice to do that. There's no limit to the creativity

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Speaker 1: that can be exercised when you empower families to make

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Speaker 1: those choices and to express the needs for their kids,

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Speaker 1: um to become everything they're meant to be. What it

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Speaker 1: really just comes down to freedom and opportunity, which are

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Speaker 1: two things Republicans purport to be for. So you know,

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Speaker 1: I it should be the fight and we've seen to.

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Speaker 1: I mean even if you look at Governor Ron de Santis,

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Speaker 1: I mean there is research and evidence pointing back to

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Speaker 1: the two eighteen gubnatorial race that that is important why

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Speaker 1: he won the race against Andrew Gillum, which was his

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Speaker 1: support for school choice. Absolutely. Yeah, that margin in that

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Speaker 1: race was very small. It was between fifty and sixty

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Speaker 1: thousand votes, I believe, and um, you look at the

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Speaker 1: data behind it and double the number of black females

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Speaker 1: voted for or double the percentage of black females voted

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Speaker 1: for Rhonda Santis as one would have expected or quote

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Speaker 1: should have and um, I guarantee they were worried about

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Speaker 1: not having the opportunity to choose their kids schools and

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Speaker 1: not be able to participate in the school choice program

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Speaker 1: because Gillum said he was going to eliminate it, or

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Speaker 1: they had kids in the program and they wanted to

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Speaker 1: make sure that they could continue. But it was definitely

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Speaker 1: a factor. They're huge factor. And what kind of research,

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Speaker 1: you know, what's the best way If someone says, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, look, school choice isn't better for a child's education,

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Speaker 1: what's your retort, what's your response to a statement like that. Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, you know, it's the parents decision, what

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Speaker 1: you know, how, how and what is best for their kids.

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Speaker 1: They're the ones who love their kids the most, who

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Speaker 1: are closest to them, who know them the best. And

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Speaker 1: it really really angers me when I hear people it's

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Speaker 1: usually it's usually the um you know, the liberal elite,

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Speaker 1: who say, well, you know, there's there's parents who can't

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Speaker 1: possibly figure this out for them, for them, you know,

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Speaker 1: for their children. That is so offensive. It is just

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Speaker 1: unbelievable that they could even utter those words. I have

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Speaker 1: met parents after parents after parent who is longing to

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Speaker 1: have their children get a different education, a better education,

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Speaker 1: go to a safer school, go to a more nurturing school,

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Speaker 1: whatever the case. Maybe parents know what's best for their

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Speaker 1: kids and they should be able to decide that they

432
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 1: should not have the government and liberal elite telling them

433
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 1: what to do, when to do it, and where to go.

434
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: But it seems like it's really driven by you know,

435
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: rich white liberals who send their kids to private, fancy schools,

436
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: but yet don't want the rest of the country to

437
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: have the same opportunities. From from my vantage point, it seems.

438
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: But you know that the heart is is actually yeah,

439
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: and is at the heart you know, it's ridiculous to

440
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: think parents can't make the best decisions for their own

441
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: kids here, but you know, I want to get it.

442
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: You had mentioned earlier about just some of the things

443
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 1: that you know, as parents are sort of watching on

444
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: the zoom calls and paying more you know, more involved

445
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 1: really in the curriculum and what their children are being

446
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: taught now that their home, that they're seeing it in

447
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: action in person. Uh, and you know that is concerning

448
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: you look at things like the Oregon Department of Education

449
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: last February where's encouraging teachers to register for training that

450
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: argues that math is racist. Uh that you know, somehow

451
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: the focus of finding the right answer or being required

452
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: to show your work is somehow you know, racism. But

453
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: I mean, isn't that racist though the premise that minority

454
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: kids cannot find the right answer? Absolutely it is. And

455
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: I mean we've seen example after example after example of

456
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: the the interductor, i mean, the the fourth seeding of

457
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: curriculum that is so counterproductive and so anathetical to everything

458
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: that we you know, we believe should be a part

459
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: of a robust and healthy, um, you know, experience for

460
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: kids in their education. And and again I think this

461
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: is uh, this has been a real awakening for a

462
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: lot of families across the country to see what's actually

463
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: going on and um and to hear firsthand. I mean,

464
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: when when UH folks first went virtual and remote, we

465
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: heard several examples of districts that we're trying to get

466
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: parents signing a statement saying they weren't going to observe

467
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: their children's classroom, or they weren't going to eavesdrop, or

468
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: they weren't going to listen to what their children were

469
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: being taught. I mean, unbelievable examples of overreach and UM

470
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: and and you know, control on part of a system

471
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: that again is there existing really for itself, not for

472
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: the kids. I heard an anecdote, not a little story

473
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: the other day of UM, you know, anonymous comments being

474
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: fed to a school leader about how they've navigated through

475
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: And this was I think a school that was in

476
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: person for most of the time. UM. But you know,

477
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: there was a comment that there was too much focus

478
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: on the kids. Now, what is education for if not

479
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: to focus on the kids? Another example of just the

480
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: total um mismatch between what the system is oriented to

481
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: do and what kids need. But do you think that's

482
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: part of why democrats want the law on our public

483
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: schools and the education system so that they can essentially

484
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: indoctrinate kids. I think that's UH, that's definitely the agenda

485
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: of many within the system. I don't for a minute

486
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: think that many that a lot of the teachers UM

487
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: subscribe or ascribed to that, but I think that that

488
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: is that is definitely part of the agenda of many

489
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: within the system. UH. And I want to make sure

490
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: that we we really UM distinguish between teachers and UH.

491
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,239
Speaker 1: And then the teachers that are really advocates for uh,

492
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: the teachers union and and holding control over the whole system.

493
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: And you know, I think about a couple of round

494
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: tables I had um while at the Department of Education

495
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: with teachers who had been teachers of the Year and

496
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: their state or their district, and you know it had

497
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 1: their their year of what I called their victory lap

498
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: around the state and then had come back to the

499
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: classroom and shortly after that had decided to quit teaching.

500
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: I wanted to understand why they wanted to quit teaching,

501
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: and so I listened to them and almost to a person,

502
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: and it was something like, you know, you've had your

503
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: chance that you know, that's same, You've taken your victory lap.

504
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: Now you just need to get back into your classroom

505
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: and you know, basically be quiet, don't ask questions, and

506
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: go back to what you were doing before. Now, these

507
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: individuals clearly had something to offer to others, perhaps with

508
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: their peers perhaps too um you know, new teachers coming in,

509
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: but they were not utilized, They were not tapped and

510
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: encouraged to do anything like that. In fact, they were

511
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: they were peer pressured to basically get back and in

512
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: many cases just resume mediocrity with, you know, in the

513
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: milieu of whatever school they happened to be in. And that,

514
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: to me is just another symptom of what is wrong

515
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: with a system that is essentially a monopoly. Well, yeah,

516
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: monopolies should be broken up. And I'm glad you. I'm

517
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: glad you made that differentiating point because you're right and

518
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: delineating between are a lot of good teachers who really

519
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: want to serve the needs of kids, who want to

520
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: do right, who are working hard, who probably don't get

521
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: paid enough. And then you know, you do you have

522
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: these proponents of the teachers unions, have these people that

523
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: just want to control power, want to control what they're

524
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: teaching kids. But so what do those good teachers do then,

525
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: you know, what what do they do to push back,

526
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: to fight back to you know, to try to fight

527
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: for these kids when you know they're up against you know,

528
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: these monsters of the teachers unions? Well, I think I

529
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: think for many of them, if not most of them,

530
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: they finally give up. Uh why do good teachers leave

531
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: and quit teaching when they're really good at what they do,

532
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: they're effective, But if they aren't able themselves to be

533
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: ultimately fulfilled, to continue to grow in their profession, to

534
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: have opportunities to train and mentor and um, you know,

535
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: take on more responsibilities within their building or within their

536
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: you know, their community, UM ultimately lay what incentive is

537
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: there for them to continue when there is the kind

538
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: of peer pressure that I I hear firsthand from teachers

539
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: that have you know, that loved to teach but have

540
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 1: left because they have just felt so beaten down. And

541
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: you know, that to me is the again one of

542
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: the big travesties of a government controlled, um nationalized school

543
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: system totally. I and I don't blame them. I mean,

544
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 1: looking at some of this you know, whistleblower documents and

545
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 1: and these things from you know, critical race theory. I mean,

546
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: Christopher Ruffo has done a great job about bringing a

547
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: lot of this stuff to the public. But he was

548
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: taking a look at some documents out of Buffalo public

549
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 1: schools and they teach about thirty four thousand students, New

550
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: york second largest sitting there teaching that all white people

551
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: perpetuate systemic racism, forcing kindergarteners to compare their skin color

552
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: and watch a video of dead black children warning them

553
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 1: that ray about ray says police in state sanctioned violence.

554
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: So what is the long term impact on these children

555
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: to be taught stuff like that in kindergarten? Yeah, I know,

556
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:18,760
Speaker 1: it's just it is UM really concerning and um again,

557
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: Until we allow for families to ultimately take control of

558
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: how and where their kids are educated, UM, we're going

559
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: to hear more and more of these uh awful examples

560
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: of a really taking um innocent children and uh and

561
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: filling them full with an agenda that is anathetical to America.

562
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: The biggest thing we can do for equality in the

563
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: country is to allow each parents to determine what kind

564
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: of education their child gets and make sure that every child,

565
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 1: regardless of sink, skin color, regardless of sex, is allowed

566
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 1: to get a great education. But I would have switch

567
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: gears a little bit and talk about your work on

568
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: you know, Title nine. You rewrote rules for how colleges

569
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: and universities handle allegations of sexual assault on campus. You know,

570
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: really reigned in a system that was stacked against the

571
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 1: people who were accused. Uh. You know why were those

572
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: reforms needed? Well, they were absolutely necessary because of what

573
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: the Obama Biden administration did, UM in response to what

574
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: was a legitimate concern about how institutions should handle handle

575
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: incidents of sexual misconduct on campus. You know, let's be

576
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: very clear there there there were issues UM, and they

577
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,399
Speaker 1: you know, that was an issue, an elephant in the rown,

578
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: so to speak. But what they did by issuing a

579
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: deer colleige letder which did not have the force of law,

580
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: but they treated it as though it did UM, which

581
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: essentially took away the rights of UH in many cases

582
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: the rights of those UH, the ones who were being

583
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: complained against. UM. It was set up a very unfair

584
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 1: and um, unreliable and unbalanced approach that resulted in hundreds

585
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: of cases being filed in courts where the survivor then

586
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: or the you know, the complainant had to go through

587
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: and be re traumatized because the process was so broken.

588
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: So what we undertook was a willmaking process and two

589
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: and a half years to do it, very thorough, very complete.

590
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: That resulted in a very reliable, fair and balanced framework

591
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 1: for institutions to use and for students to be able

592
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: to rely on. And UM, you know, the criticisms about it,

593
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 1: I just challenge anyone who is reflexively critical to sit

594
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: down and read the regulation and and tell me, what

595
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: requirements there they find unreasonable? There, they won't find them really,

596
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: I mean maybe small quibbles here and there on minor points,

597
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: But the reality is it is a very fair and

598
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: balanced rule that ensures do process protections and puts the

599
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 1: survivor really in the driver's seat on how a complaint

600
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: is ultimately UH handled and what process they want to

601
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: take with the complaints. Well, it's also it's ridiculous because

602
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: just because you want do process rights for the accused

603
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: does not mean that you don't also want the accuser

604
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: if the you know, the allegations are valid, you want

605
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: that to be adjudicated. You want that process to play out.

606
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: So it's like it can't it's not an either or,

607
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: it's a both. You wanted a process that is set

608
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 1: up for due process to allow the accuse to get

609
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: a fair hearing, and if you you also want the

610
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: potential victim UH to also have a you know, system

611
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,439
Speaker 1: and a process to go through so that the person

612
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: who you know committed the acts ends up punished. So

613
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: it's like it doesn't have to be in either or scenario.

614
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: But that's really the way that the left sort of

615
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: frames the debate. Why is that well, simply because they

616
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: didn't like what we did. And um, again the reflective

617
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: reaction on the part of the advocacy groups that have

618
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: been stood up for survivors quote unquote have decided they

619
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: don't like they don't like the provisions. But what it

620
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: I mean, it actually strengthens provisions survivors and protections, and

621
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: it really it puts them in the driver's seat if

622
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 1: they decide they only want to have supportive measures like um,

623
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: you know, changing dorm rooms or changing classes or uh,

624
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: you know, a restricting access to you know, the the individual.

625
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: But on the part of the one they were complaining

626
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: supportive measures but not take a formal complaint through they

627
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: have that right to do so. The Obama Biden letter

628
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 1: did not allow them to do that. And I heard

629
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 1: many cases where um, these students found themselves in proceedings

630
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: that they didn't want to be in and didn't didn't

631
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: agree with, and yet they were they were powerless to

632
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: do anything about it. We also defined, uh, what you know,

633
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: spexual harassment is and put a clear definition, a reliable

634
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: definition around it. We protect we give in the in

635
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:05,359
Speaker 1: the rule protections for online behaviors, for stalking, for date

636
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: rate and really again expanded and clearly articulated, UM, strengthened

637
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: protections for survivors and at the same time ensure due

638
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: process protections for those who are accused. So what's your

639
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: message then, to the Biden administration, UM, that's looking to

640
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: roll back those rules. I think they do so at

641
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: their own peril. UM. You know, there there's again. I

642
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: I challenge anyone who reflectively reflectively has criticized it to

643
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: sit down and tell the world what they disagree with. UM.

644
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: Are they going to deny those who are accused due process? Right?

645
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 1: I think not. I mean, the courts have continued to

646
00:41:54,880 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: opine that do process protections are fundamental? UM. So I

647
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: you know, I think that the thought of undoing what

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00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 1: we have done is U is simply untenable. And I'm

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00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 1: I'm hopeful that ultimately the Biden administration concludes that they

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00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 1: had best uh respect what the extensive work that's been done.

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00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: You know, we had over a hundred and forty thousand

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00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: public comments to which we had to respond and did respond. Uh.

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00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: This was a very thorough, very balanced, and very fair

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00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: approach that gives a reliable framework for all involved. And

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00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: I'm very proud of the work that we did, the

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00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: team that that did all of the heavy lifting to UM,

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00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 1: you know, two and a half years to do all

658
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 1: of the right things to ensure we ended up at

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00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: a in a place and with a rule that is

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00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 1: is one that can be respected and relied upon. And lastly,

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00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: before before we go, you talked a lot about reimagining

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00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: education and education freedom during your tenure. What would the

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00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: ideal future look like for K through twelve system? Well,

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00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: the the ideal future is that every family ultimately is

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00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 1: empowered with the resources that are already spent on them

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00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 1: in the public system, and that essentially that money attaches

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00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 1: to that child back I like to picture the backpack

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00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 1: with the you know, the money in the backpack following

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00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 1: that child to wherever they go to get their education,

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00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: and that will create a plethora of new approaches, new

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00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 1: innovative solutions to how kids learn in their K K

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00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: through twelve years. You know, the American K twelve system

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00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 1: is the most oxified UM system of we We've seen

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00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: massive changes in every other part of our society, and

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00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 1: yet when it comes to education, a fundamental part of

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00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 1: growing up and becoming an adult and a contributing UM.

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00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: You know, citizen, we we are. We're stuck in a

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00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: system that is more than a century, almost a century

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00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: and a half old, and it's time that we change.

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00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: And it's time that that families reassert their control and

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00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 1: their right to make those decisions, and that then the

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00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: creativity of the American people is unleashed to create all

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00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:49,280
Speaker 1: kinds of solutions that are going to be exciting and

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00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 1: uh and and really you know, um totally change the

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00:44:55,440 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: future for kids and their experience and uh and ultimate

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00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: late for our our society and our economy because we're

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00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: gonna have a lot more creative entrepreneurs um, you know,

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00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: doing things they wouldn't have ever had the opportunity to do.

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00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: Secretary Betsy Devas, you are a wealth of information. This

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00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: is a fascinating conversation and I appreciate your fight for

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00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: our children. It's been a lifeeslong work for you and

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00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: we appreciate the work you're doing and bringing this information

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Speaker 1: to light. Thank you so much for joining us today.

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00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Lisa, appreciate it would have been Secretary

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00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: Divance again for a great interview. And if you enjoyed

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Speaker 1: today show, please leave us a review and rate us

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00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: five stars on Apple Podcasts. You can also find me

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00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram at at Lisa Rebooth. Special thanks

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00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 1: to our team producer John Cassio, writer Aaron Clegan, researcher

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00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: Margaret Smith, and executive producers Debbie Myers and speaker new Genkridge,

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Speaker 1: all part of the Gingridge three sixty network and team