Speaker 1: Welcome to Had of Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,
Speaker 1: and today we are answering your listener questions. That's right, buddy,
Speaker 1: This is a listener Questions Monday episode that we've got
Speaker 1: lined up for you. We hope everybody out there had
Speaker 1: a wonderful weekend, but we've got five awesome questions to
Speaker 1: get to. A listener is wondering if the work provided
Speaker 1: life insurance that her and her husband receive, if that's
Speaker 1: going to be enough. We're going to talk about that.
Speaker 1: Another listener is he's got a four to one K
Speaker 1: true up option. That's something that is offered, but he
Speaker 1: wants to know if this actually means that he's not
Speaker 1: leaving money on the table, not tune up, but true
Speaker 1: up true. We'll get into did I say true up?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: No, you said true But I know people might hear
Speaker 1: that and they're like, I don't even know what that is.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that, and then another listener she is
Speaker 1: selling her house or she wants to, and she's wondering
Speaker 1: if she should go the take the iebuyer route. So
Speaker 1: we've got that question plus a couple others on today's episode.
Speaker 1: All right, before we get to that, man, I wanted
Speaker 1: to quickly mentioned, have you heard of EU two six one.
Speaker 1: It's a law in the new COVID variance that sounds
Speaker 1: like no, although I can see why you say that. No,
Speaker 1: but there's BA two six one. But so this is
Speaker 1: a law in Europe that basically says that you get
Speaker 1: paid if a flight is delayed or canceled and by
Speaker 1: a certain by a certain amount of time. So there's
Speaker 1: different rules about got that euro European feel to it? EU? Okay, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And so there were a couple people in my life
Speaker 1: recently who mentioned flight cancelations on a trip to or
Speaker 1: from Europe, or at least a substantial delay, and I
Speaker 1: was like, hey, you might want to check this out
Speaker 1: and file acclaim with the airline because you might be
Speaker 1: entitled the compensation. And you're like, oh, yeah, what twenty
Speaker 1: thirty bucks and it's like no, no, no, no, hundreds and
Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of dollars. So nice. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: one of those things that a lot of people don't
Speaker 1: know about. And by the way, the statute of limitations
Speaker 1: is like years long for some of these, So if
Speaker 1: you're like, man, two years back, I got screwed on
Speaker 1: this flight. And it doesn't have to be in inter
Speaker 1: European flight. It can be a flight to and from Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: so look at the details. So if you fancy like that,
Speaker 1: like all of Joel's friends are, make sure to jets
Speaker 1: threading up for parents and all the likes. Right, but
Speaker 1: the folks are just talking about bicycling from point A
Speaker 1: to point B to to the grocery store. Right, We'll
Speaker 1: put a link to an article that tells helps you
Speaker 1: understand how to get compensation for EUT six to one
Speaker 1: if you had a substantial delayer at cancelation. But it's
Speaker 1: kind of cool, Like my sister did this a few
Speaker 1: years ago, got paid more in the compensation than the
Speaker 1: flight cost her because she got such a dirt cheap deal,
Speaker 1: so it's yeah, it's pretty sweet. They pay actual replacement cost,
Speaker 1: not depreciated cost of that ticket. And we've talked about
Speaker 1: how these are. There are similar benefits that credit cards offer,
Speaker 1: but of course you have to know about that and
Speaker 1: have used the right credit card or even have the
Speaker 1: credit card. So this kind of size steps all of that,
Speaker 1: or it does not come down to payment. It's even
Speaker 1: if the European law. Even if you did, you could
Speaker 1: double dip essentially. And oh that's what the credit card
Speaker 1: and the EU six one. Yah, they're separate. Yes, it makes
Speaker 1: makes sense that you should be able to. That is
Speaker 1: one of those things we're interesting. It would not be cheap.
Speaker 1: I think it'd be frugal to take advantage of the
Speaker 1: credit card benefit, the trip cancelation shirts, but also under
Speaker 1: your your legal right as someone taking a trip to
Speaker 1: or from Europe, like get the money. Oh and by
Speaker 1: the way, Matt, I don't think we've mentioned this yet.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have a listener hang here in Atlanta and
Speaker 1: our boy home city this coming Friday. We teased it
Speaker 1: was it last week or a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: but it's official. This is the official announcement. Yeah, so,
Speaker 1: if you live locally and you want to see our
Speaker 1: ugly mugs drink beer together, please come out to Inner
Speaker 1: Voice Brewing. We'll be there from four to eight pm.
Speaker 1: Let's incentivize folks as well. Let's we'll have a few
Speaker 1: pairs of our how to Money socks on hand. Sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: you beer, we'll see but yeah, we hope to see
Speaker 1: you there at Inner Voice How To Money Hang meet
Speaker 1: your fellow listener this Friday from four to eight. All right,
Speaker 1: let's introduce the beer that you and I are going
Speaker 1: to enjoy today. This is a brew by Common Space.
Speaker 1: It's called Chubby Unicorn, and we will give our thoughts
Speaker 1: on this guava milkshake IPA at the end of the episode.
Speaker 1: That's right, But let's get to the subject of Handmatt.
Speaker 1: We're answering listener questions. We've got a good slate of
Speaker 1: them today on the show, and if you have a question,
Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. It takes all
Speaker 1: of three minutes to pick up your question, to talk
Speaker 1: it into your phone into that voice memo app, and
Speaker 1: then to send it our way. You can find the
Speaker 1: specific instructions for how to do that at howtomoney dot com.
Speaker 1: Slash ask can't wait to hear from you, and this
Speaker 1: listener wants to know whether or not they should sell
Speaker 1: their home to an entity instead of a human.
Speaker 2: Hello. My name is Rosemary and I currently live in
Speaker 2: Central Texas. We were moving due to my husband's job.
Speaker 2: After much deliberation and against common wisdom, we have decided
Speaker 2: to sell our home, which we have only owned for
Speaker 2: two years. Where are the pros and cons of selling
Speaker 2: your home to an eyebuyer such as open door risk
Speaker 2: going through a traditional real estate agency. When might you
Speaker 2: choose one option over the other? Thank you?
Speaker 1: All right, let's kick this thing off, Rosemary, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for your question. And by the way, congrats
Speaker 1: on the new job there for your husband. I hope
Speaker 1: it's just a fantastic opportunity as well as a promotion. Right,
Speaker 1: hopefully you are yeller earning more. But I'm also hoping
Speaker 1: too that you get to move somewhere great, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean Texas is great, but tex is great. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're wanting to move on from Texas, where would
Speaker 1: you hope to be going? I don't know, I mean Atlanta,
Speaker 1: Georgia Bay, Yeah, I mean probably right. The water's just fun.
Speaker 1: It's pretty great here. But you're you're talking about selling
Speaker 1: your house, and lucky for you, even after own owning
Speaker 1: that house for just a couple of years, it's likely
Speaker 1: that you're still going to come out ahead. Right, In
Speaker 1: a normal time period, that could really come back and
Speaker 1: kind of bite you. But just given the lack of supply,
Speaker 1: given the soaring prices that we've seen since you made
Speaker 1: that purchase, I'm pretty sure that you're probably still going
Speaker 1: to be doing Okay, Yeah, obviously it comes down to
Speaker 1: your personal situation here, but at least it's not like,
Speaker 1: let's say it was six o seven that you made
Speaker 1: the purchase and then if you're looking to sell two
Speaker 1: years after that, that would put you in a pretty
Speaker 1: painful position and be called taking a bath, right for ure.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, definitely fortunate for Rosemary that even despite
Speaker 1: despite those transaction costs that are so heavy involved in
Speaker 1: buying and selling and taking out a mortgage and all
Speaker 1: that stuff, it would typically mean that you would lose
Speaker 1: money over such a short term ownership cycle. But that's
Speaker 1: not going to happen to you, Rosemary. But let's talk
Speaker 1: about eye buyers, and first, what is an iBuyer Maybe
Speaker 1: let's define the terms. Well, simply put, their big companies
Speaker 1: that are willing to instantly and that's what the eye
Speaker 1: stands for. By the way, in eye buyers, they will
Speaker 1: instantly buy your house from you in order to turn
Speaker 1: around and sell it themselves on the open market. Open
Speaker 1: Door and offer Pad they are two of the largest
Speaker 1: players out there there. You mentioned you mentioned open door,
Speaker 1: Rosemary in your question but Zillow and Redfin they had
Speaker 1: a large percentage of the market before they ended their
Speaker 1: eye buying programs, and basically they had a tough time
Speaker 1: buying homes at scale, right, and during the pandemic when
Speaker 1: there was a lot of money slashing around, they were
Speaker 1: overpaying for houses. They literally bought high and sold low,
Speaker 1: which is the exact opposite of what you want to
Speaker 1: do really with any investment, right. And so since then,
Speaker 1: eye buying is kind of wised up, so you're really
Speaker 1: you're much less inclined to get an amazing offer today.
Speaker 1: Two three years ago you might have seen Zelo give
Speaker 1: you more money than you would have gotten if you
Speaker 1: put it on the open market. But now purely because
Speaker 1: of the novelty of it, because it was a new thing,
Speaker 1: it hadn't necessarily been proven. They were still trying to
Speaker 1: figure things out. They're trying to establish market share, and
Speaker 1: so they're like, hey, cool, and they I guess they
Speaker 1: didn't really they hadn't other due diligence, they hadn't figured
Speaker 1: out what it took to buy and sell homes effectively
Speaker 1: without losing money. And then they realized, wait a second,
Speaker 1: it's actually gonna be really hard to pull this.
Speaker 3: Off a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of factors that go into account,
Speaker 1: you know, like how do you account for the incessant
Speaker 1: barking dog that's next door? If you're just looking at pictures,
Speaker 1: which is how a lot of the eyebuyers do it,
Speaker 1: it's oftentimes light unseen. But the future of the just
Speaker 1: eye buying industry is uncertain. It seems like that they're
Speaker 1: kind of building the plane while they're flying it. I
Speaker 1: really like the idea of eye buyers, but the reality
Speaker 1: just has played out a little differently. It sounds really good,
Speaker 1: but the end result isn't necessarily awesome, and that's largely
Speaker 1: because they are acting as another middleman who's looking to
Speaker 1: get paid. So that means the offer that you're likely
Speaker 1: going to receive it's going to be typically lower than
Speaker 1: what you would get with a traditional listing. They are
Speaker 1: looking for their piece of the pie, they're looking for
Speaker 1: their cut. Some folks might think that selling via an
Speaker 1: eyebuyer is actually going to reduce fees, which is going
Speaker 1: to maybe make the offer more competitive. In reality, like
Speaker 1: why not go digital? That is not the case, because
Speaker 1: the fees can be similar, if not more than the
Speaker 1: fees that a typical realtor would charge. And so why
Speaker 1: would you go with an option where you're essentially going
Speaker 1: to get hit with the same fees, but with us
Speaker 1: with an inferior service. Right With at least with the realtor,
Speaker 1: you've got somebody, like a real person. It feels like
Speaker 1: a customized, bespoke, tailored care that you're receiving. But with Eyebuyer, man,
Speaker 1: that seems like the path to take if you're not
Speaker 1: looking for service, right, Like I mean, just Iyebuyer even
Speaker 1: in the name itself, like it makes me a think
Speaker 1: of eye Robot or whatever the movie and is robots
Speaker 1: and stuff. Well, you said service, But most people when
Speaker 1: they're in there to sell me an iyebuyer, they're not
Speaker 1: looking for service. They're looking to sell it immediately, right.
Speaker 1: They don't care about like whether someone's going to hold
Speaker 1: their hand and walk them through the details and help
Speaker 1: them get their house in order so they can get
Speaker 1: top dollar. They want to be done, They want the
Speaker 1: transaction over completed, they want their cash, right, And so
Speaker 1: that is what ibuyers do. Well. They are the convenience play,
Speaker 1: the convenience pick. But we're talking to one of the
Speaker 1: other big downsides of using an eyebuyer is that you're
Speaker 1: asking one single entity to make an offer for your house.
Speaker 1: You're skipping the open market, right and the competition that's
Speaker 1: generated when home is publicly listed, When it's put on
Speaker 1: the MLS. That's when everybody and their sister sees your
Speaker 1: listing on Zilo and says, Oh, that's a cute one
Speaker 1: on a cute street. I think I want to go
Speaker 1: take a look at that. When you sell directly to
Speaker 1: an eyebuyer, you miss those eyeballs and you miss the
Speaker 1: potential interest from people you know. And even though obviously
Speaker 1: home buyers they're not lined up the sidewalk to see
Speaker 1: a house like they were back in twenty twenty one
Speaker 1: early twenty twenty two, still just a few competing offers, right,
Speaker 1: is all you really need to ensure that you're getting
Speaker 1: the absolute best price. Having at least two or three
Speaker 1: interested parties looking at the house making offers on the
Speaker 1: home is going to ensure that you're getting what it's
Speaker 1: actually worth on the market. You don't get that with
Speaker 1: an iBuyer. You're getting literally just the one offer and
Speaker 1: got one buyer. That doesn't help you the iebuyer. That
Speaker 1: doesn't help you know whether or not that is what
Speaker 1: the house would actually go for if you were to
Speaker 1: put it up for sale. Plus, not all homes qualify
Speaker 1: because eye buyers aren't available in all markets. They're available
Speaker 1: kind of more in the southern United States, less in
Speaker 1: the northern regions. So yeah, they are in Texas, but
Speaker 1: they might not be where a lot of our other
Speaker 1: listeners who listen Matt where where they are. It depends
Speaker 1: on the property too, because I think oftentimes they're looking
Speaker 1: for uniformity because that's how they're able to easily from
Speaker 1: a digital standpoint, determine the value of a home. And
Speaker 1: if you have a piece of property that's on a
Speaker 1: lot of land or that's that's a really unique home,
Speaker 1: either A, they your house may not be eligible to
Speaker 1: be purchased by an eyebuyer, or b you might get
Speaker 1: severely lowballed because they're not really taking that into account
Speaker 1: as much as some of the other things that a
Speaker 1: lot of folks are looking for. I fear has like
Speaker 1: a water slide from the second story down to the pool,
Speaker 1: and you got like a grotto or something, you might
Speaker 1: get qualified. I don't know they might not even want
Speaker 1: to play with you. But like you said, folks who
Speaker 1: are wanting basically like cash now, which is a part
Speaker 1: of why we don't like this whole like the eyebuyer
Speaker 1: industry or sort of that mentality is it seems like
Speaker 1: almost like a desperate ploy to unloading your house quickly,
Speaker 1: which isn't how you should be approaching selling your home.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the speed which you could sell your house,
Speaker 1: how it's streamlined, that's certainly one of the advantages to
Speaker 1: going with an eyebuyer, But it's also just going to
Speaker 1: be so much easier, right because like maybe some folks
Speaker 1: actually like they do have the time, right, it's not
Speaker 1: about how quickly they can do it. They actually have
Speaker 1: the time, but they just don't want to deal with
Speaker 1: the hassle of it. They don't want to put up
Speaker 1: with the headaches of schedule, the appointments, of hiding all
Speaker 1: of their personal stuff so that potential buyers can envision
Speaker 1: their own stuff there in the house. It's the easy button.
Speaker 1: But you are paying a price for this convenience, and
Speaker 1: you know, we hope for your bottom line that you
Speaker 1: are able to take the time to actually do some
Speaker 1: of these things. To do the legwork. There are meaningful
Speaker 1: dollars on the line, and we until the industry gets
Speaker 1: maybe more competitive or more efficient to where the eyebuars
Speaker 1: are taking less of a cut, we're not really in
Speaker 1: favor of going the taking the eye buy route. Sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean a pawn shop will buy your stuff instantly too,
Speaker 1: and they're not, but they're just not gonna pay you
Speaker 1: as much as you can get exactly. Typically if you
Speaker 1: list it yourself on Facebook, marketplace, or if you sell
Speaker 1: it on eBay, there are all sorts of ways where
Speaker 1: you can, you know, sell that an asset that you
Speaker 1: have on a shorter truncated timetable, but typically that means
Speaker 1: they're going to make less money for it does feel
Speaker 1: like the pawn shop of realtors. Like I think maybe
Speaker 1: that's the slight negative connotation again, not that the pawn
Speaker 1: shops are serve purpose. They're a legit business and the
Speaker 1: ability to go in there and man, I don't have
Speaker 1: the time, I just need to unload some stuff and
Speaker 1: in order to have some cash on hand. It serves
Speaker 1: both parties well, But who stands to make a profit
Speaker 1: The person that's there in the middle, and that's what
Speaker 1: Eyebuyer is looking to do. Yeah, I mean we've all
Speaker 1: seen pond Stars. We know what happens there. Okay, I
Speaker 1: actually haven't seen Pundstas. Oh really, you've never seen one
Speaker 1: episode of it? I don't think so. I mean I
Speaker 1: understand the premise. Next, you're gonna tell me you never
Speaker 1: saw one episode of Orange County Choppers or whatever that was. Oh,
Speaker 1: I know, I definitely Okay, Yeah, they're always fighting and yeah,
Speaker 1: stuff at each other. There's like two of the most
Speaker 1: popular reality TV shows of all time, that and like
Speaker 1: Deadliest Catch, Right, But I think Insummation Rosemary, we would
Speaker 1: say that it can't it can't hurt to get a
Speaker 1: quote from Open Door, from offer Pad to see if
Speaker 1: they're in the ballpark. But get a quote from both right,
Speaker 1: and you might get a solid offer, you know, with
Speaker 1: just a few clicks. But hiring an experienced agent who
Speaker 1: knows the ins and outs of your neighborhood could net
Speaker 1: you thousands of dollars more, if not tens of thousands
Speaker 1: of dollars more, and putting in some of that work
Speaker 1: up front, whether it's you know, taking out some ugly
Speaker 1: wallpaper and painting a neutral color or something like that,
Speaker 1: all those sorts of things that an agent is going
Speaker 1: to give you the tips on, Hey, spending a few
Speaker 1: thousand here could mean many more thousands right when it
Speaker 1: comes to putting your home on the market and getting
Speaker 1: those offers. So I would talk to an agent once
Speaker 1: you have those offers in hand from the eye buyers,
Speaker 1: and say, hey, how much more can we get? Like
Speaker 1: and if it's not worth the hassle to make an
Speaker 1: extra couple grand, then you take the eyebuyer offer. But
Speaker 1: if you say, actually, the agent things we can get
Speaker 1: fifteen to twenty grand more, it's worth the extra time,
Speaker 1: the extra effort. It doesn't hurt to at least bark
Speaker 1: up that high buyer tree, but in nl likelihood you're
Speaker 1: going to do better go in the traditional Totally agree. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it can be a great data point essentially to help
Speaker 1: you to decide what it is that you should be
Speaker 1: doing moving forward. And given the criticism that we have
Speaker 1: presented on the podcast about realtors and the fees that
Speaker 1: they present or the fees that they charge, I think
Speaker 1: a lot of folks might be thinking, oh, man, I'm
Speaker 1: surprised that mandol aren't down with eyebuyers because it seems
Speaker 1: like it kind of automates things that kind of it's
Speaker 1: a more efficient marketplace, but it's not really like that's
Speaker 1: the problem is that you're holding to a single buyer.
Speaker 1: If it was more like a sophisticated marketplace where buyers
Speaker 1: are being put directly in touch with sellers and you
Speaker 1: are able to automate a lot of the stuff there
Speaker 1: in the middle to where there's not necessarily a middleman
Speaker 1: there and like taking a cut as opposed to just
Speaker 1: software that's kind of running in the background, that sounds
Speaker 1: more attractive to me, Like I'm more hopeful for that
Speaker 1: as opposed to just another player that's in between you
Speaker 1: and your money. We're just saying we're not talking about
Speaker 1: widgets here, We're not talking about tennis shoes, we're not
Speaker 1: talking about T shirts. Right. This is a complex market,
Speaker 1: the market of real estate, and it varies from street
Speaker 1: to street. And like you said, madikuild a dog barking
Speaker 1: across the street, a troublesome house that's right next door, Well,
Speaker 1: that can make all the difference in what you're getting
Speaker 1: in what buyer see and what they're willing to offer.
Speaker 1: And so I just don't know if I buyers are
Speaker 1: ever going to be able to compete in a hyper
Speaker 1: customized business like real estate. But we've got more questions
Speaker 1: to get to, including one about tossing bonus money into
Speaker 1: a retirement accoun Does that make sense and will it
Speaker 1: help him avoid more tax? We'll get to that and
Speaker 1: more right after this. We are back and we will
Speaker 1: get to that four when kay question here in a minute,
Speaker 1: But first let's hear from a listener who is actually
Speaker 1: she heard us answer a question and now she's got
Speaker 1: another question. It's a question of a question. Take you
Speaker 1: back off of a question. We'll get to that one
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 4: Hi, Matt and Joel. My name is Megan and I'm
Speaker 4: a longtime listener of the podcast from Portland, Oregon. Recently,
Speaker 4: when listening to one of the Ask how to Money episodes,
Speaker 4: you are answering a listener question about term versus whole
Speaker 4: life insurance, and it got me thinking about something that
Speaker 4: I'd love to get your advice on. Currently, my husband
Speaker 4: and I are both twenty nine and working full time
Speaker 4: with no kids. We both have insurance built into our
Speaker 4: work benefits where we would get one point five times
Speaker 4: our income upon death of either of us. We have
Speaker 4: a healthy savings account and no debt beside our mortgage,
Speaker 4: and since we don't have any dependents, we have always
Speaker 4: thought this would be sufficient in the unlikely event that
Speaker 4: we'd need it. However, we do plan to start a
Speaker 4: family in the next few years and are wondering should
Speaker 4: we go ahead and established term life insurance now since
Speaker 4: we're younger and healthy in case something were to happen,
Speaker 4: so that we can ensure that we get it for
Speaker 4: a good price, knowing that we'll eventually need it. Thanks
Speaker 4: so much for your thoughts and love listening to the podcast.
Speaker 1: All right, Matt, speaking of efficient markets, life insurance is
Speaker 1: a much more efficient market than versus in real estate.
Speaker 1: Oh they're going to say universal whole life. Oh oh yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot more you know, all the actuary, actuary
Speaker 1: exactly what an actuarial table, actuarial. There's more standardization. You
Speaker 1: can shop for it with multiple providers online in a
Speaker 1: simple sitting. And so we're big fans of term Life
Speaker 1: by the way, in case you didn't know, if you're
Speaker 1: like I think I need some life insurance, term life
Speaker 1: is is the way to go. We'll actually put a
Speaker 1: link to an article I wrote about that on the
Speaker 1: website in the show notes. But before we tackle this
Speaker 1: new term life policy, let's talk about work provided life
Speaker 1: insurance policies for just a second, because a lot of
Speaker 1: folks they might be thinking that, well, one and a
Speaker 1: half times your income, that's plenty, right if something happens
Speaker 1: to either of you, And the truth is it might be,
Speaker 1: but it does depend on the specific details.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: It sounds like you've both done a good job thinking
Speaker 1: through the particulars, which is great. But for others who
Speaker 1: might be in a similar boat, consider what your debt
Speaker 1: obligation is as a couple. If one of you dies,
Speaker 1: would the other be able to continue to pay the mortgage.
Speaker 1: Let's say you make a substantially less you're a teacher
Speaker 1: and the other ones software. The other person's a software engineer.
Speaker 1: That changes the dynamics, Right, if it's split fifty to fifty,
Speaker 1: it's like a kind of a simpler dynamic to think about.
Speaker 1: But and I know, like there's obviously a lot of
Speaker 1: emotions involved in this. This can be kind of like
Speaker 1: a morbid exercise. Would you be able to get back
Speaker 1: to work after a couple of weeks or do you
Speaker 1: think you need more months to mourn your law sentens.
Speaker 1: We don't know that right until we go through it.
Speaker 1: So it's the kind of thing that's unlikely to happen,
Speaker 1: but it's worth envisioning so that you're properly prepared so
Speaker 1: that you you feel can feel comfortable that you have
Speaker 1: enough insurance in the case of that worst event happening. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it depends on just some of the different personal
Speaker 1: finance goals that you might have as well, because I
Speaker 1: think when you, like earlier on in your careers, you
Speaker 1: may not have a ton of expendable additional income where
Speaker 1: you might say, well, it wouldn't hurt to go ahead
Speaker 1: and get an additional policy, But if one is being
Speaker 1: provided for you at work, and if that's enough, then
Speaker 1: of course, why spend the additional money every single month
Speaker 1: for a policy that you don't necessarily need. If you've
Speaker 1: thought through some of these some of those questions that
Speaker 1: joli in that workplace policy, typically it is one x
Speaker 1: or one and a half x your income that's given
Speaker 1: as a free perk. Buying more through your workplace plan
Speaker 1: doesn't typically make more sense because, especially if you're healthy
Speaker 1: and twenty nine years old, you're going to be able
Speaker 1: to get a much better deal shopping the open market.
Speaker 1: So I wouldn't necessarily add to it at work. I
Speaker 1: would if you do end up believing or realizing that
Speaker 1: you need more, you're going to want to shop on
Speaker 1: the open market as opposed to going through that work
Speaker 1: place playing more. Yeah, but with that being or a
Speaker 1: perk that your employer might offer, totally take take advantage
Speaker 1: of that thing. But I get the free style. Keep
Speaker 1: in mind though, that it's workplace provided, employer provided perk,
Speaker 1: So once you were to move on from that job,
Speaker 1: that's that thing is not going to be coming with you,
Speaker 1: which is the opposite. Of course, if you get your
Speaker 1: own individual term life policy, that's good for you, know,
Speaker 1: no matter who it is that you work for. But yeah,
Speaker 1: important things to think through. And this is and this
Speaker 1: is coming too from a guy that got term life
Speaker 1: before we had kids, Like, this is something that we
Speaker 1: did because we kind of thought through some of those
Speaker 1: some of those different things. And Kate she was she
Speaker 1: just has like I guess, lower risk tolerance level and
Speaker 1: she was thinking, man, okay, I guess early on it
Speaker 1: became clear that I was becoming more of the main breadwinner,
Speaker 1: and we had purchased a home. We hadn't had kids yet,
Speaker 1: but we did have a house. And I think it
Speaker 1: was about two years after we had that house that
Speaker 1: we had had this discussion and she was thinking, Man,
Speaker 1: I would still love to be able to stay in
Speaker 1: this house where you did. I don't know if I
Speaker 1: would be able to be able to afford the mortgage.
Speaker 1: And so that's literally something that we went ahead and did.
Speaker 1: That was like a solid two years, I think before
Speaker 1: we even had kids. And so for us, it was
Speaker 1: more of a peace of mind, a way to mitigate risk,
Speaker 1: even though it was going to be highly unlikely that
Speaker 1: that was going to happen. But every young couple who
Speaker 1: doesn't have kids in their twenties or whatever is going
Speaker 1: to have different things to think through. Right, they might
Speaker 1: not own a home, but they might live exactly, they
Speaker 1: might live in an airstream and say, listen, our costs
Speaker 1: are really low and so the one X is plenty, right,
Speaker 1: that's more than enough. Or maybe you've got like a
Speaker 1: a ton of family that are fairly well off and
Speaker 1: they've got basements and additional rooms or wings of the
Speaker 1: house that you can live in. These are all things
Speaker 1: to consider as you are trying to trying to decide
Speaker 1: if you should go ahead and go out on your
Speaker 1: own and kind of get your own policy. But that
Speaker 1: being said, like you don't need to be in a
Speaker 1: rush to go out there and secure your own term
Speaker 1: life policy, Like this is something that I would maybe
Speaker 1: put on your medium term financial to do list, but
Speaker 1: not something that needs to happen right away, because you're
Speaker 1: asking about getting a policy early on, while you're young,
Speaker 1: before it gets really expensive. Well, premiums they go up
Speaker 1: over time as you get older, yes, but they don't
Speaker 1: adjust a ton at all from your twenties to your thirties.
Speaker 1: You might end up literally paying just a few extra
Speaker 1: dollars every single month, but you will also be covered
Speaker 1: for a few extra years on the tail end, which
Speaker 1: are the most expensive years to be insured for more
Speaker 1: important years. Yes, absolutely, So you're kind of rolling the
Speaker 1: dice here in one sense, right, Like you're hoping that
Speaker 1: there's not going to be like a medical catastrophe that's
Speaker 1: going to change those dynamics. But I think it's totally
Speaker 1: fine to wait two or three more years, even waiting
Speaker 1: but until you have kids before getting out there and
Speaker 1: getting your own additional policy. Like literally, it depends where
Speaker 1: you look it up. But I saw one table and
Speaker 1: it showed that between the ages twenty five and thirty five,
Speaker 1: you are literally only paying two dollars more two dollars
Speaker 1: twenty four dollars a year by waiting a decade a
Speaker 1: decade of not paying for paying annual premiums on a
Speaker 1: policy that you are you know, unlikely going to need,
Speaker 1: especially in these early years when you're like, I'm just
Speaker 1: trying to max out a rothier area, just trying to
Speaker 1: get the match on my four oh one K. You
Speaker 1: could maybe cut back from your investing to have more insurance.
Speaker 1: But these are the kind of hard decisions that people
Speaker 1: in their twenties have to make. I still remember Matt
Speaker 1: people being told by really smart people, hey, you need
Speaker 1: more term life insurance, and I was like, but I
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to become, you know, financially independent, and
Speaker 1: I feel like I need to sock more money into
Speaker 1: investments and that, Yeah, I get the value in that insurance,
Speaker 1: but I think I can wait a couple more years.
Speaker 1: And so that might be the key here. Too. Possible
Speaker 1: to over ensure you don't want to you don't want
Speaker 1: to overdo it towards keeping you from achieving some of
Speaker 1: those other things that you're getting after, right, So those
Speaker 1: are the trade offs, Like everything comes with the trade off, right,
Speaker 1: Like that's that's the reality behind everything in personal finance.
Speaker 1: And so in a couple of years, you'll probably want
Speaker 1: to grab a thirty year term policy, megan, but shop around,
Speaker 1: like when you get to that point. Policy Genius is
Speaker 1: one of our favorite spots to get quotes. Costco members
Speaker 1: should also get quotes there are too. And the reason
Speaker 1: you only need a policy, by the way, for three
Speaker 1: decades instead of for life, instead of getting like a
Speaker 1: whole life policy, is because we're hoping that the need
Speaker 1: for life insurance is going to evaporate by the time
Speaker 1: the kids that you're playing on having the theoretical kids
Speaker 1: by the time they're grown, right, and that you've been
Speaker 1: saving and investing for such a long stretch that at
Speaker 1: that point in time you don't need the coverage. You
Speaker 1: could pay a bunch more. You can get life insurance
Speaker 1: for the rest of your years, but should be better
Speaker 1: off with the term policy and the much smaller premiums
Speaker 1: that accompany it, which would allow you to funnel even
Speaker 1: more money towards better financial goals, like investing even more.
Speaker 1: It's a virtuous cycle. Yeah, and like we said, as
Speaker 1: far as like your kids being out of the house,
Speaker 1: like that gives you a solid twelve years to have
Speaker 1: like multiple failures to launch in order for those for
Speaker 1: those kids to get out of there before you know,
Speaker 1: obviously they're no longer dependent on you. Yeah. So really
Speaker 1: it's it's not like an easy slam dunk decision. But
Speaker 1: if you think through all those things and you say,
Speaker 1: wait a second, kind of like Matt and Kate, I
Speaker 1: feel like we need a little bit extra coverage, and
Speaker 1: really it's not that expensive and we're meeting all of
Speaker 1: our other our other financial goals anyway, so let's go
Speaker 1: ahead and make the purchase. It's really only going to
Speaker 1: be nineteen dollars a month or something like that. But
Speaker 1: then again you might say, no, no, that would keep
Speaker 1: us from being able to achieve this, this and this,
Speaker 1: and so actually we're going to hold off for a
Speaker 1: couple more years. I think you could really make a
Speaker 1: pretty good argument either way. Yeah, but bottom line, know
Speaker 1: that it does not get significantly more expensive hardly at all. Like, really,
Speaker 1: it really starts ticking up once you hit forty. But hey,
Speaker 1: let's get to our next question. This is from a
Speaker 1: listener who, bottom line, is wanting to make sure that
Speaker 1: he's not leaving money retirement dollars on the table at
Speaker 1: the end of the year via his four o one K.
Speaker 1: Let's hear it, Hi, Matt and Joel.
Speaker 3: My name is Gavin and I'm from late To, Utah.
Speaker 3: I am a recent newcomer to the How To Money
Speaker 3: family and I've been listening for about a month now
Speaker 3: and I love the simplicity that you guys bring to
Speaker 3: the complex world of finances. I am thirty four years
Speaker 3: old and have four children, and I work in a
Speaker 3: sales role for a construction company. For my role, I
Speaker 3: qualify for an annual bonus. We are paid weekly and
Speaker 3: the company offers a four to one K match in
Speaker 3: order to maximize my weekly take home pay for day
Speaker 3: to day expenses. I've been making no contributions to my
Speaker 3: four oh one K weekly, but will calculate to take
Speaker 3: enough out of my bonus to make sure that for
Speaker 3: the year I've contributed enough of a percentage to get
Speaker 3: the match. Also, I did confirm that my company does
Speaker 3: a true up. An extra benefit that I've seen to
Speaker 3: do this is that because I'm contributing to my four
Speaker 3: oh one K and the funds come out pre tax,
Speaker 3: my taxable amount, which being a bonus attacked at a
Speaker 3: higher percent, is less. So I'm saving a good amount
Speaker 3: on my bonus taxes by doing this. My question is,
Speaker 3: by only contributing one time per year, am I losing
Speaker 3: the long term benefits of compounding interest in my four
Speaker 3: oh one k? Thank you guys, have a great.
Speaker 1: Day, Matt. I love that Gavin said that how to
Speaker 1: money family. Honestly, it is like a family, isn't it.
Speaker 1: I feel that in our Facebook group we've got ten
Speaker 1: thy seven hundred member or something like that now, and
Speaker 1: people are always addressing each other in these like terms
Speaker 1: of affection, which is so sweet, and does everybody refer
Speaker 1: to each other as brother? And yeah that might get
Speaker 1: a little creepy, right, but maybe not quite to that
Speaker 1: same place. Is kind of weird, right, exactly? No, But
Speaker 1: it really is like it's this community we're trying to
Speaker 1: build of people who are like minded, and you want
Speaker 1: to see other people achieve success too, So I think
Speaker 1: of it in some ways as a family, and I
Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe you're the godfather of it, but what
Speaker 1: does that make you? Godmother? Maybe fairy godmoma? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: will say that, all right, go with that. But Gavin,
Speaker 1: I'm glad to have your round. Man, thanks for listening
Speaker 1: to the podcast, and congrats on getting the full match
Speaker 1: on the four to one k even though you've got
Speaker 1: four kiddos at home. Matt, that's like a bigger hurdle
Speaker 1: to jump over. Yeah, it maximizing those retirement accounts per
Speaker 1: personal experience. Welcome to the four kids club, right, You've
Speaker 1: got that. Not easy. He's the mama bird right like
Speaker 1: or daddy bird. He's got those mouths defeat. It's not easy.
Speaker 1: And so I'm glad that you've confirmed that your company
Speaker 1: does a true up. By the way, not every plan
Speaker 1: offers this, and so I can come back to bite
Speaker 1: you if, let's say you don't contribute for a few
Speaker 1: paycheck cycles, but you're trying to invest money in bigger
Speaker 1: chunks later in the year in order to try to
Speaker 1: get that full match. Well, if your employer's plan goes
Speaker 1: the true up path at the end of the year,
Speaker 1: like Gavin's does, you'll be fine. Right, you receive the
Speaker 1: full matching dollars you otherwise would have received if you
Speaker 1: had invested like normal, like clockwork along the way. But
Speaker 1: if your employer does not offer the ability to true up,
Speaker 1: you will have missed out on some of those free
Speaker 1: matching dollars. So this is just an important detail to
Speaker 1: make sure that you're aware of with your employer if
Speaker 1: you're not committing money to your four one K regularly
Speaker 1: throughout the year. Yeah, And basically the reason that the
Speaker 1: true up is necessary is employers basically are lazy, and
Speaker 1: so oftentimes the way the match is calculated is they
Speaker 1: base it on your annual salary, and so at the
Speaker 1: beginning of the year, they say, okay, if we provide
Speaker 1: a six percent match based on your salary, this is
Speaker 1: how much we would contribute. This is how much we're
Speaker 1: going to match every single paycheck. But if there are
Speaker 1: some gaps, and I totally get it, Gavin, if you're
Speaker 1: kind of like, I'm not totally sure if we're how
Speaker 1: aggressively we're gonna invest this year, I got four miles
Speaker 1: to feed you. There might be times when you're just like,
Speaker 1: all right, things are looking kind of tight, so you
Speaker 1: skip out on some of those contributions. But basically, when
Speaker 1: you contribute to your four and K, it acts as
Speaker 1: a trigger for your employer to come to match with
Speaker 1: their matching contribution. And so what that means is that
Speaker 1: if you invest at the end of the year with
Speaker 1: a lump sum and you don't have that true up.
Speaker 1: If let's say you just invest over three paychecks towards
Speaker 1: the end of the year, well you're only you're only
Speaker 1: going to get that match on those three paychecks, and
Speaker 1: the whole rest of the year you're missing out. And
Speaker 1: so what's actually interesting is that this works both ways too.
Speaker 1: Let's say you are a very aggressive investor and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I want to I want to get I want to
Speaker 1: get invested as soon as possible, and so you invest
Speaker 1: let's just say the first three months of the year. Well,
Speaker 1: you're literally putting like ninety percent of your paycheck aside
Speaker 1: to hit the limit. Yeah exactly. And were you to
Speaker 1: do that, then each one of those page you would
Speaker 1: get the match that was calculated there for each paycheck,
Speaker 1: divide it out like over the entire year. But once
Speaker 1: you stop contributing to your four win K because you've
Speaker 1: hit your maximum contribution limit, well, your employer. Again, it's
Speaker 1: not going to be triggered, and so they're not going
Speaker 1: to be matching it with dollars because they aren't calculating
Speaker 1: it on a per pay cycle basis. Some employers do that.
Speaker 1: It's just it's more work, and I understand it. It's
Speaker 1: a pain in the butt for them to basically calculate
Speaker 1: how much you're deciding to contribute for that pay cycle
Speaker 1: to your four oh one K. But from an employee standpoint,
Speaker 1: that would be the easiest route because then you literally
Speaker 1: they're matching dollar. You know, they're matching how based on
Speaker 1: however much that you're putting aside. But unfortunately that's just
Speaker 1: not how the majority of employers do it. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: you just have to know before you kind of figure
Speaker 1: out how what like what your contribution cycle is going
Speaker 1: to look like. You want to know the details of
Speaker 1: whether or not your employer's plan does. You want to
Speaker 1: know the details contribution matching or not. And so if
Speaker 1: your employer doesn't, let's say, offer the true feature, you'd
Speaker 1: be well served to do whatever you in to make
Speaker 1: sure that you regularly invest right at least up to
Speaker 1: the match with every single paycheck not waiting let's say
Speaker 1: until the end of the year, like Gavin's doing, right,
Speaker 1: And his question is basically whether or not taking this
Speaker 1: route and investing in a lump sum at the end
Speaker 1: of the year is okay because his employer is still
Speaker 1: going to contribute those matching dollars. And I would say
Speaker 1: the simple answer is yes, Like, as long as you're
Speaker 1: getting the full match, which you are because your employer
Speaker 1: does the true up, then you're totally fine, no worries, right,
Speaker 1: and more than anything, like more than anything, we don't
Speaker 1: want you leaving matching contributions on the table because as
Speaker 1: long as you're contributing enough to get the full match,
Speaker 1: when and how you do it is really less of
Speaker 1: a consideration. It's more minores. Right. But that being said,
Speaker 1: if you and this is what we talk about here
Speaker 1: on how to Money, we get a little nerdier with it.
Speaker 1: If you really want to optimize those dollars that you're
Speaker 1: waiting to invest until December towards the end of the year,
Speaker 1: well they obviously won't be invested in the market quite
Speaker 1: as long. And since the stock market goes up essentially
Speaker 1: three of every four years, you're actually going to be
Speaker 1: investing at a less than opportune time. The reality is
Speaker 1: that the sooner that you can get your dollars invested,
Speaker 1: the sooner you can get your dollars into your four
Speaker 1: O one K, the better off you're going to be
Speaker 1: because that gives those dollars more time to experience the
Speaker 1: magic of compounding returns. And it may be more or
Speaker 1: less on a given year, but year after year. Again,
Speaker 1: we're talking about compounding here. It's not just the fact
Speaker 1: that it happens once. We're talking about the fact that
Speaker 1: it just snowballs, right, it builds upon itself. Twenty five
Speaker 1: percent of the time, you're gonna come out ahead, like
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two. If you wait until December, you're like, whoo,
Speaker 1: Like I actually I actually made out like a bandit
Speaker 1: by waiting. But most of the time that's not going
Speaker 1: to make it exactly. So that would mean, then, you know,
Speaker 1: rather than waiting to invest at the end of the year,
Speaker 1: investing regularly with every paycheck, that would be a better pick.
Speaker 1: But if you want to get really nerdy with it,
Speaker 1: the superior option is going to be to invest. Invest
Speaker 1: as aggressively as possible and as early in the year
Speaker 1: as possible. But again, you know, we're talking about optimization here.
Speaker 1: We're not really talking about what's right or wrong. But
Speaker 1: either way, if by waiting to invest either at the
Speaker 1: squeeze it in at the beginning or if you squeeze
Speaker 1: it in at the end of the year, either way, Gavin,
Speaker 1: for you, you're going to be made whole and you're not
Speaker 1: leaving any dollars on the table. Yeah, we're not trying
Speaker 1: to put pressure on you because again, you've got four
Speaker 1: miles to feed, So it's not like start mex it
Speaker 1: out in January, right, I mean, but this is something
Speaker 1: worth noting that by delaying, you're not optimizing to the
Speaker 1: fullest extent that you could. By the way, you mentioned
Speaker 1: a common misconception gap that I wanted to clear up,
Speaker 1: which is that bonuses are taxed at higher tax rates,
Speaker 1: which is actually not true. It kind of feels like
Speaker 1: it because more taxes withheld from bonus dollars that are
Speaker 1: paid out. Typically we're talking about a flat twenty two
Speaker 1: percent that the employer holds back in taxes when they
Speaker 1: pay out a bonus, not to mention social Security, State taxes, Medicare,
Speaker 1: So it can feel like, wait, I just got a
Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars bonus. Why is it like fifty five
Speaker 1: hunderzo in my account? Like, I don't understand. I mean,
Speaker 1: everything gets sorted out though, when you file your taxes,
Speaker 1: and so, if your effective tax rate is lower than
Speaker 1: twenty two percent, that's going to shake out in the
Speaker 1: form of a tax refund for you when you file
Speaker 1: your taxes. In this and so, bonuses are awesome, and
Speaker 1: hopefully you're even more excited to get yours this year
Speaker 1: knowing that it's not actually taxed at a higher rate. Man.
Speaker 1: I hear that from people all the time. They're like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's a misconcepts love getting a bonus, but man, the
Speaker 1: taxes suck on it, and it feels like it. But
Speaker 1: you're gonna probably come out ahead when you file your taxes.
Speaker 1: You're gonna get some money back here. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it kind of comes back again to just some of
Speaker 1: the most common paths that employers take, which is when
Speaker 1: they apply the standard twenty two percent tax rate on
Speaker 1: bonuses earned like that it's the potentially easiest path for
Speaker 1: them to take, but it isn't the most optimized for
Speaker 1: you for your own personal finances. Similar to the true
Speaker 1: up method or the option. The fact that that's there.
Speaker 1: It's to be able to make up for the fact
Speaker 1: that they're not doing things perfectly optimized, which if you
Speaker 1: live in a perfect world, of course everything would be
Speaker 1: perfectly optimized. But employers got other things don't worry about.
Speaker 1: But Gavin, we think that you're going to be set.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you listening to the podcast, Joel. We've got
Speaker 1: two additional questions that we're going to get to, and
Speaker 1: speaking of podcasts, like, we're gonna get a little meta
Speaker 1: with it. We're going to talk about the medium of
Speaker 1: podcasting itself plus one other right after the break. All right, Matt,
Speaker 1: in just a second, we're gonna help a listener out
Speaker 1: who has been crushing it with his own podcast, creating
Speaker 1: great content for a lot of years. But how does
Speaker 1: he scale. We'll get to that one in just a second,
Speaker 1: but let's first get to a question from a listener
Speaker 1: who's wondering if you should build a new house and
Speaker 1: then rent it out.
Speaker 5: Hey, guys, this is Keith from the Oregon Coast calling
Speaker 5: in again. I'm curious what your guys' thoughts are on
Speaker 5: the build to rent option as far as real estate investing.
Speaker 5: I have several just bare ground properties that are paid off,
Speaker 5: utilities are in ready to build on. And I'm also
Speaker 5: a builder, so I guess I'm able to build brand
Speaker 5: new houses and then just rent them out as opposed
Speaker 5: to like a spec house for you sell them. So yeah,
Speaker 5: I'm just I don't hear a lot about this option,
Speaker 5: but it seems like it could be pretty good long term. Alternatively,
Speaker 5: I could just take the money I would use to
Speaker 5: do that. I'd probably get it from pulling a heelock
Speaker 5: out of my house and put it down payment on
Speaker 5: the duplex or quad or something. Yeah. I don't know,
Speaker 5: But what's your guys thoughts on this, Matt?
Speaker 1: At least this time, Keith got a question that isn't
Speaker 1: like peering into my soul right the counseling relational Yeah,
Speaker 1: his wife is like picking them apart after coming a counseling.
Speaker 1: At some point, you, Keith, and I need to commiserate
Speaker 1: on the on the Organ Coast over Beers about the
Speaker 1: you know how difficult it is to be to be
Speaker 1: married to or to be in a relationship with a therapist.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to invite myself not to sit in
Speaker 1: on your conversation but to drink beer and to go
Speaker 1: hiking and laugh at us. But Keith, we really like
Speaker 1: your question because normally we would be a little more
Speaker 1: cautious of this approach, right, building something from scratch and
Speaker 1: you know, with this long kind of drawn out plan
Speaker 1: in order to have an investment property. But you specifically
Speaker 1: check a bunch of boxes. You own the land, so
Speaker 1: check the utilities are already in the ground. That's another check.
Speaker 1: That's awesome, like the opposite of like when people are
Speaker 1: trying to sell you lakefront property. I know it's like
Speaker 1: for ten grand, you can get this lake front spot.
Speaker 1: Here's somebody we know that will provide septic and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: all that. But Keith is also the builder, and I
Speaker 1: think if any of those details were different, our advice
Speaker 1: would likely be different as well. Like if Joe Shmoe
Speaker 1: was asking about just buying random dirt in a far
Speaker 1: off location, like no, like a country song that is,
Speaker 1: that would be our advice. We'd say, yeah, probably not.
Speaker 1: But it sounds like, you know, Keith, he's got to
Speaker 1: know how and he's got the ability, I think to
Speaker 1: pull this off. It makes me think that we've got
Speaker 1: a friend and maybe this is like ten, twelve, thirteen
Speaker 1: years ago something like that. He in town purchased a
Speaker 1: plot of land in the goal for him was to
Speaker 1: build his house on that property, but unfortunately it didn't
Speaker 1: the American dream. It did not work out for him.
Speaker 1: Whether I think it was a combination of maybe not
Speaker 1: having done quite as much due diligence, but also I
Speaker 1: think maybe some slight dishonesty on the part of the cellar.
Speaker 1: But bottom line, it was basically FEMA flood maps made
Speaker 1: it unbuilt, could not build there, and I don't I
Speaker 1: think he ended up he might still own the piece
Speaker 1: of property, or maybe he donated it, and I think
Speaker 1: he had to donate it for tax that was like
Speaker 1: the best way she's gonna lost money, much less than
Speaker 1: bottom money, and this area think it ended up end
Speaker 1: up being like thirty thousand dollars, maybe that he'd originally
Speaker 1: originally paid for that. So Keith, for you, we think
Speaker 1: this could be an excellent route and an excellent path to
Speaker 1: take for everybody else out there, listen to why we
Speaker 1: think Keith is well suited to do this, because he
Speaker 1: truly is.
Speaker 5: He is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right. A lot of other people who would
Speaker 1: say I want to buy some land and I want
Speaker 1: to build on it. There's this a lot you need
Speaker 1: to consider before you go that route, and utilities are
Speaker 1: are definitely one consideration. But this is of like Keith's
Speaker 1: superpower here, right, He'd likely to be able to build
Speaker 1: this house for far less than what someone else in
Speaker 1: the area would pay for a new home, given the
Speaker 1: connections that you have and the sweat equity that you
Speaker 1: would likely be able to put in. Keith, it means
Speaker 1: like maybe you're doing the tiling right, maybe you're even
Speaker 1: installing some of the electrical I don't know, but those
Speaker 1: factors are critical when you're trying to figure out if
Speaker 1: this is a sound decision, because the cost of building
Speaker 1: has gone up substantially, but still have rents in home
Speaker 1: values and so as long as the numbers make sense
Speaker 1: for you and you're not taking on crazy high interest
Speaker 1: debt to pull this off, it seems like a sound
Speaker 1: decision to us. And it also makes me think, Matt,
Speaker 1: he mentioned buying a duplex or a triplex. Well, Keith,
Speaker 1: what if when you build this house a hybrid approach,
Speaker 1: you build a duplex or a trilex, but you build
Speaker 1: a next one that's I had a neighbor across the
Speaker 1: street back when we lived in town as well, and
Speaker 1: he built a really nice duplex. He lived in one
Speaker 1: half and he rented out the other. He eventually moved
Speaker 1: away from that from that part of town. He lives
Speaker 1: elsewhere now when he rents out both and this has
Speaker 1: been like a money maker for him hand over fists
Speaker 1: for a whole lot of years. So if you the
Speaker 1: next duplex, I think maybe that is the best of
Speaker 1: both worlds. That's right. Also, before we keep talking about
Speaker 1: real estate, Keith, he didn't mention any of his specifics,
Speaker 1: but this is also assuming that Keith, that you are
Speaker 1: already maxing out your retirement accounts, which are going to
Speaker 1: be the easy button when it comes to growing your
Speaker 1: net worth. But just because it's easy like that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that investing in the overall market that that is
Speaker 1: an inferior option. And because in many ways it's actually
Speaker 1: going to be the superior option, right, Like you're going
Speaker 1: to be more diversified, it can be fully automated, you
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about managing the properties. And of course,
Speaker 1: like there's the chance that you may not quite get
Speaker 1: the juicy returns like you would with real estate. But
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that you should skip investing of course
Speaker 1: in boring tax advantaged accounts. And keep in mind too,
Speaker 1: like one of the things you said was you haven't
Speaker 1: heard many folks talk about taking this path. And I
Speaker 1: think the reason that is is because oftentimes you have
Speaker 1: real estate developers. You've got developers, right, and they are
Speaker 1: the ones who are like choosing the sites and figuring
Speaker 1: out how many houses they're going to kind of c
Speaker 1: I'm on to put on the land. And then you've
Speaker 1: got property real estate managers. They're typically specialized in what
Speaker 1: it is that they do. From a business standpoint, that
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. But as an individual, Keith,
Speaker 1: if you want to be scrappy and are willing to
Speaker 1: learn and do both of these things, man, you've got
Speaker 1: the ability to see this thing through from soup to nuts,
Speaker 1: right like you are. You've got the plots of land,
Speaker 1: you can figure out like how it is maybe even
Speaker 1: that you want to orient the house is on the property,
Speaker 1: Like you have an ability to create some awesome places here.
Speaker 1: But then see it through right like get it ready,
Speaker 1: show it, manage it. And with that in mind, again,
Speaker 1: like Joel said, this is it's almost like a it's
Speaker 1: a superpower, but it's almost like an unfair advantage that
Speaker 1: you have compared to anybody else who's looking to get
Speaker 1: into real estate. Yeah, so put it to use. And
Speaker 1: especially if you're going to live in half of it,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe you say, oh, for two years, I'm willing
Speaker 1: to live in the property, and maybe that's going to
Speaker 1: make this and even better, make it even make more sense, right,
Speaker 1: make it even better investment. But assuming you're good to
Speaker 1: go right and you're ready to put that superpower use,
Speaker 1: it's really important to make sure that you're performing your
Speaker 1: due diligence right. Gathering the data, running the numbers is
Speaker 1: a really important step in this whole process. You got
Speaker 1: to figure out how much is this going to is
Speaker 1: this house or multi family resident's going to cost me
Speaker 1: to build? And what are you likely to be able
Speaker 1: to get in rent for it? Is there a dearth
Speaker 1: of rental units where you currently live? Like, knowing all
Speaker 1: good information to be looking up in those local dynamics
Speaker 1: are crucial in the real estate right and local zoning
Speaker 1: as well. Like, so the fact that you mentioned that
Speaker 1: the utility is already in the ground, I picture a
Speaker 1: development of a bunch of houses, and maybe zoning may
Speaker 1: not allow for multi family, or maybe there's an hoa
Speaker 1: that keeps you from being able to rent that out.
Speaker 1: These are obviously all things that you want to make
Speaker 1: sure that you have a good grasp on. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I love that he's taking a long term by
Speaker 1: the way. I think it's really important because you got
Speaker 1: to know the local dynamics. But you also got to say,
Speaker 1: all right, well, how long am I willing to hold
Speaker 1: on to this? And it sounds like Keith is willing
Speaker 1: to make this decision and build this house and manage
Speaker 1: it as a rental for years and years to come.
Speaker 1: And so if the numbers make sense from the get go,
Speaker 1: the longer your ownership timeline, the better it's going to
Speaker 1: perform for you over the years. When we had Chad
Speaker 1: carsonon recently, what did he say that owning a house,
Speaker 1: owning rental property over the long term? Eventually it starts
Speaker 1: out as a part time job and it turns into
Speaker 1: a blue chip stock, and so the pain on the
Speaker 1: front end can pay off in the back on the
Speaker 1: back end in a meaningful way. So Keith, if yeah,
Speaker 1: if the numbers make sense, even in the infancy of
Speaker 1: the project, then I think it's it's only going to
Speaker 1: get better over the years. It really makes sense down
Speaker 1: the road, assuming there's not something terrible that happens next
Speaker 1: you know, next door or down there. But Keith, we
Speaker 1: appreciate your question and we really like how you are
Speaker 1: thinking about this potential real estate investment. Joel, let's get
Speaker 1: to our last question. This is from Doug and he
Speaker 1: has an affinity for the eighties.
Speaker 6: Hey, Matt, Joel Doug here from Philadelphia, and I have
Speaker 6: a question for you that is not a money question.
Speaker 6: I'm pretty good on that front and have been listening
Speaker 6: to you guys and taking your advice now for.
Speaker 3: Almost a year.
Speaker 6: This is more of a podcasting question. There are a
Speaker 6: lot of different money podcasts out there, and you guys
Speaker 6: seem to have built quite an audience for yourself. I
Speaker 6: have a podcast on eighties movies, sort of a comedy podcast,
Speaker 6: and then looking to sort of breakthrough or build an audience.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's just a hobby. I know there are
Speaker 6: services out there that will help promote your show. Blah
Speaker 6: blah blah. I certainly don't want to spend money. Is
Speaker 6: there any advice that you have any sort of outlets
Speaker 6: or maybe how you guys got started. It's something that
Speaker 6: I really haven't heard you guys talk about. And I
Speaker 6: know that this is not a money question, So if
Speaker 6: it doesn't make the show, I totally get it. But anyway,
Speaker 6: thank you so much, shameless plug. The podcast is good times,
Speaker 6: great movies. I don't know you can cut that out.
Speaker 6: You don't need to play that if you don't want to.
Speaker 6: All right, thanks guys. I really enjoy the show, Doug.
Speaker 1: We're not cutting it out. That totally gets to stay
Speaker 1: for everybody to hear so that they can check out
Speaker 1: your podcast. People should go listen. I wouldn't listen to
Speaker 1: a couple of episodes and and you know, of course
Speaker 1: the one I look for Matt, what's my favorite eighties movie?
Speaker 1: Alf alf? Was he in a movie that would actually
Speaker 1: have been a good pick. That's a good guess. But
Speaker 1: no Blood Sport with John Damn? Oh classic Forest Whitaker.
Speaker 1: I mean that that's a class he was like, because
Speaker 1: I'm trying to hunt down John clop band. Yeah really,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the Underground Fighting Arena, remember that, dude. I
Speaker 1: just remember Jean Claude vandam doing the splits and yes,
Speaker 1: it was like a cultural phenomenon, right, Like basically, as
Speaker 1: a kid, you knew that if you could do the
Speaker 1: splits like like him, somehow you'd get just as ripped.
Speaker 1: Somehow you'd be able to kick everybody's butt. And it's
Speaker 1: just science. I've managed to never do any of the
Speaker 1: above things. But yeah, actually Doug covered blood Sport in
Speaker 1: episode ninety five, So if you're interested in hearing more
Speaker 1: about what an epic movie that is, go back and
Speaker 1: listen to that. Well, we'll do it in the show notes.
Speaker 1: But yeah, he's blinded at the end, and he's like, yes,
Speaker 1: John Lee, Oh it's so good. But Doug, we're glad
Speaker 1: you're getting you show off the ground. And he's been
Speaker 1: at it for like two hundred something episodes, but he's
Speaker 1: that's right. There are a lot of personal finance podcasts,
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of good ones out there too.
Speaker 1: We're really thankful that How to Money listeners listen to
Speaker 1: this show and that they trust us. And so I
Speaker 1: don't know exactly, Matt, I don't know if I could
Speaker 1: boil it down to like how or why people listen
Speaker 1: to us these seven steps, Right, We're not going to
Speaker 1: have that per se. Hopefully it's because we have a
Speaker 1: passion for the topic. Hopefully it's because we're decently well
Speaker 1: versed in it, and hopefully it's because we're trustworthy as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've resonated with a specific audience, but also we've been consistent,
Speaker 1: right because one of the things, Doug, I'm sure that
Speaker 1: you've noticed is that the podcasting space is crowded. So
Speaker 1: you were talking about Europe Joel at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the episode. It's kind of like Europe in July, which
Speaker 1: is why you should travel during shoulder season. But it
Speaker 1: is totally true that there are basically millions of podcasts
Speaker 1: out there who are vying for listening time, but a
Speaker 1: huge percentage of this podcast that exists, well they've only
Speaker 1: released one single episode, and then another massive chunk have
Speaker 1: only released something like ten episodes. So with you being
Speaker 1: in the hundreds, consistency clearly isn't a problem. That's like
Speaker 1: step one, right, Yeah, it goes there, but I know
Speaker 1: for us that was sort of one of the first
Speaker 1: things that we focused on was to be incredibly consistent,
Speaker 1: not only with making sure that we that we did it,
Speaker 1: but just the same time every week as well. Because
Speaker 1: we wanted to create something regular that listeners were looking
Speaker 1: forward to. They knew that, like, oh, at the time
Speaker 1: was Wednesday. That's when our first episode. When when we
Speaker 1: only had one episode, we would release them on Wednesdays.
Speaker 1: But you want to start building in that regularity. And
Speaker 1: as you are starting to build up that base of listeners,
Speaker 1: what they used to call it in the world of
Speaker 1: radio was appointment listening. Right, Oh, okay, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: at six oh eight, you know when to tune in, Yeah,
Speaker 1: your favorite host is going to come on and they're
Speaker 1: going to talk about this or whatever like, And so
Speaker 1: that's kind of what we wanted was, Hey, every week,
Speaker 1: you get used to listening and learning, and you kind
Speaker 1: of keep doing it because hopefully it's helping you and
Speaker 1: it's fun. It's a part of your routine, right exactly.
Speaker 1: And Matt, we also learned a lesson pretty early on
Speaker 1: when people thought they were turning into a personal finance podcast,
Speaker 1: and we talked about beer for like ten minutes at
Speaker 1: the beginning. You remember that I do. Yeah, Well, early
Speaker 1: early on we also called it poor not poor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you poor beer not poor bro, which is also
Speaker 1: just a confusing name, also a tong twister. We had
Speaker 1: to change over the marketing to appeal to the audience
Speaker 1: that we're looking for as well. But obviously we're fans
Speaker 1: of craft beer and we included in the show. It's
Speaker 1: a part of our vibe. But over time we found
Speaker 1: more subtle ways to we've been into the show, and
Speaker 1: so for instance, asking our guests about their craft beer equivalent.
Speaker 1: That's a great way for it to be baked into
Speaker 1: the show, But dominating the initial most important ten minutes
Speaker 1: of our conversation with beer talk not so great, especially
Speaker 1: when people are like looking for money, advice and the
Speaker 1: practical help in that department. So of course you don't
Speaker 1: want to neuter your show and remove all personality from it,
Speaker 1: but finding a way to garner feedback where you're listening
Speaker 1: to any critiques can help you to refine your podmat
Speaker 1: We had an email address specifically dedicated to that, right.
Speaker 1: It was it was like how tomoney dot com slash
Speaker 1: get better. I don't know the yeah, the rl chep
Speaker 1: that alive or not, but that was the way people
Speaker 1: could submit negative feedback and say like, listen, you guys
Speaker 1: suck on this. You really need to approve on this,
Speaker 1: or constructive criticism. I can't believe you said this always helpful,
Speaker 1: and so we try to listen from that feedback and
Speaker 1: make adjustments because yeah, we're learning on the fly too. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we are always trying to create a better product at
Speaker 1: the end of the day. And that being said, like
Speaker 1: I'm going to take this opportunity if you have some
Speaker 1: feedback for us, totally let us know. I think we
Speaker 1: still have that page up. If I think Ford slash
Speaker 1: get better or do better. Maybe that was it, but
Speaker 1: either way, just email us. Email us at howtomneypod at
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. It goes to both Joel and I.
Speaker 1: We always read those emails. But Doug mentioned some of
Speaker 1: those different services that you can pay to promote your show. Obviously,
Speaker 1: don't do that because a lot of those are scams.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're aware of that. Just today I dove
Speaker 1: into the what are the message requests in Instagram which
Speaker 1: I only look at like once every quarter. Basically I'm
Speaker 1: missing like eighty percent of them. They're so there's like
Speaker 1: something like thirty promotion things where it's just like for
Speaker 1: ten dollars, you get one thousand or one hundred new
Speaker 1: you know, one hundred new all of that kind of stuffs.
Speaker 1: Every like friend request I got on LinkedIn is the
Speaker 1: same thing exactly. And you know your follower count or
Speaker 1: those downloads that you know they might go up, but
Speaker 1: that might just be the product of bots. So I
Speaker 1: wouldn't trust any of those actual you know, those requests,
Speaker 1: those Internet scam artists who promise to raise the profile
Speaker 1: of your show. And I also want to mention that
Speaker 1: you're probably narrow casting with the content of your show, right.
Speaker 1: This isn't a problem though, given what it is you
Speaker 1: talk about, given the length of your show, it's just
Speaker 1: likely I think that you're going to have fewer, yet
Speaker 1: more rabid listeners and fans of good Times what was it, Great,
Speaker 1: Good Times? Great Movies. Yeah, So I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: you're looking to monetize the podcast, but if you are
Speaker 1: taking the route of Patreon or buy my Coffee, these
Speaker 1: can be great ways, Like those platforms can help to
Speaker 1: just turn some of those diehard listeners into some actual
Speaker 1: money where you're able to monetize the show gradually. It
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be this all or nothing kind of thing.
Speaker 1: I think there are ways for folks to come to
Speaker 1: kind of dabble and kind of start offsetting some costs
Speaker 1: and maybe maybe eventually you're, oh, man, are we actually
Speaker 1: generating an income? That would of course be an awesome thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, the real way to have the most successful
Speaker 1: podcast is to pivot into a crime show, because that's
Speaker 1: what people love and listen to the most. And that's
Speaker 1: what actually Matt and I are going to do starting
Speaker 1: next week. We're ditching the personal finance that we're gonna create.
Speaker 1: We're going to commit the crimes. Yeah yeah, and then
Speaker 1: we're gonna detail it along the way. We're gonna document it.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be it's gonna be insane. We're gonna hide
Speaker 1: in the woods in trees, and we'll be on the
Speaker 1: run for hopefully years. But the quietly podcasting like Blair
Speaker 1: Witch style about right, that would actually think about it,
Speaker 1: that would crush because if you were creating a show
Speaker 1: in real time and in the new run, yes you're
Speaker 1: on the run, But then I guess you would get deplatformed,
Speaker 1: right like they would, because they wouldn't want that going
Speaker 1: out unless somehow you had control over your platform, you know,
Speaker 1: like if you were you know, Elon musk Rich, you
Speaker 1: can control the means of which you're communicating with folks, right, Well,
Speaker 1: so enough of that, and if you or you'd have
Speaker 1: other ways to promote your podcasts, for sure, But and
Speaker 1: I of course I'm joking, But the real reality is
Speaker 1: there's certain genres and certain types of podcasts that just
Speaker 1: have more purchase with a broader audience, right, And so
Speaker 1: I think a personal finance podcast it's not going to
Speaker 1: be as listened to as one of the more popular
Speaker 1: long form interview or crime podcasts. That's okay, But it's
Speaker 1: the thing that we want to create. And so you're
Speaker 1: creating the thing you want to create, and that's the
Speaker 1: most important part you Yeah, I think if you're this
Speaker 1: far into it, you have found your people. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: that is what's important. Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing,
Speaker 1: I mean, Seth Godin talks about the minimum viable audience,
Speaker 1: and I think you have to figure out, Okay, what
Speaker 1: is that for me? If I've got fifteen hundred, eighteen hundred,
Speaker 1: two thousand people listening every single episode I create? Well,
Speaker 1: would I show up to a lecture hall if two
Speaker 1: thousand people wanted to listen to me talk about eighties movies?
Speaker 1: Heck yeah I would, right, because I'm that passionate about
Speaker 1: it and to see that many people in one place,
Speaker 1: But sometimes we look at it as numbers on a
Speaker 1: screen when these are real human people digesting our content,
Speaker 1: which is super cool. So think about it like that
Speaker 1: and then also realize, actually, there's a lot of people
Speaker 1: I'm speaking to, a ton of people who really like
Speaker 1: and care about the same thing I care about, and
Speaker 1: so I love that. Doug called it a hobby, like
Speaker 1: I think the number one rule of podcasting is that
Speaker 1: you should do it if you feel compelled to get
Speaker 1: a message out into the world. You've got to love it,
Speaker 1: and it's okay to want to grow, but don't forget
Speaker 1: the reason you started it and why you take the
Speaker 1: time every week to continue creating. So, Matt, the way
Speaker 1: we started was like literally we said, hey, we're going
Speaker 1: to be triple A at everything. We're not going to
Speaker 1: be pro level because that would take too much time,
Speaker 1: too much effort. But as long as we're hitting triple
Speaker 1: A marks, as long as we're professional, doing our best,
Speaker 1: and we're being consistent, like you said, and then we
Speaker 1: try to get on another podcasts to kind of raise
Speaker 1: the profile of our show and help other people find
Speaker 1: out and were not just podcasts that did the exact
Speaker 1: same thing we did kind of tangential podcast right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But that being said, we didn't do a ton of that,
Speaker 1: like like literally maybe just like a few, like a handful,
Speaker 1: but slowly over time we did build up an audience.
Speaker 1: And I guess I'm thinking of marketing like it makes
Speaker 1: me like early on we made coozies, but we didn't
Speaker 1: even send those out to listeners. I think we just
Speaker 1: gave them up to our friends because we thought it
Speaker 1: was cool, Like we were just nerdy and it was
Speaker 1: something that we enjoyed. But that's kind of what Joel's
Speaker 1: speaking to, like, make sure that it's fun for you.
Speaker 1: Don't worry too much about the marketing side of things. Obviously,
Speaker 1: with it's like so we were able to grow the
Speaker 1: show and then you know, we're with iHeart Now and
Speaker 1: so they do a lot of the marketing for us
Speaker 1: as well. But at the end of the day, don't
Speaker 1: I honestly wouldn't even worry too much about that because marketing.
Speaker 1: I heard this quote where they said that basically marketing
Speaker 1: wins the day, but quality content wins the year, Like like,
Speaker 1: marketing is good for the short run, but unless you're
Speaker 1: creating a quality product. It doesn't really matter what the
Speaker 1: marketing plan is. It depends on what it is that
Speaker 1: you're creating. And so Doug, I think focusing on the
Speaker 1: quality of the show, don't forget that. That is what
Speaker 1: you need to be focused on, you know, first and foremost.
Speaker 1: And you're supposed to worry about the marketing and the
Speaker 1: scaling and growing side of things. And Dugs is the
Speaker 1: kind of show where people it's going to get word
Speaker 1: of mouth trash right, people who are like I love
Speaker 1: eighties movies and they know their best friend loves eighties
Speaker 1: movies and they're like, you got to listen to this
Speaker 1: pot cast. I'm listening to that. That's gonna be the
Speaker 1: best way for it to grow. I think you could
Speaker 1: get on you know, try to get on another podcasts.
Speaker 1: You can, you can work on other ways to grow
Speaker 1: and to find your audience, and you can put a
Speaker 1: lot of effort into that, But do you have the
Speaker 1: time and the like the biggest thing, focused the majority
Speaker 1: of your time on creating something great that you like creating,
Speaker 1: that's gonna be the most sustainable. It makes me think
Speaker 1: we have a we have a listener Matt who writes
Speaker 1: about a newsletter about fitness, and that's this thing when
Speaker 1: it comes to fitness is like, do what's sustainable. You
Speaker 1: might like be able to go hard seven days a
Speaker 1: week for two weeks, but then you're gonna burn out,
Speaker 1: you're gonna stop. And so whatever workouts you choose, make
Speaker 1: sure it's something you want to replicate, you want to
Speaker 1: keep doing. And that's kind of I found that to
Speaker 1: be true in my own life. If I try to
Speaker 1: do something that I hate, I'm probably gonna like, you're
Speaker 1: gonna burn out. Yeah, exactly. All right, Doug, we wish
Speaker 1: you the best man, and hopefully you get millions of
Speaker 1: downloads just from this Sweet Heat of Money podcast est
Speaker 1: the Sweet HTM plug. The boys gave me a HTM
Speaker 1: bumps what we'll call it. That's right. The beer you
Speaker 1: and I enjoyed, Joel was chubby unicorn again. This was
Speaker 1: a guava milkshake. I pa by common Space. What were
Speaker 1: your thoughts? You know, it's funny on the on the
Speaker 1: can it says it came with it had guava puree
Speaker 1: in it, so I expected it to be a little thicker.
Speaker 1: It wasn't. Oh yeah, it was a little sweet, little
Speaker 1: vanilla smoothie vanilla smoothness to it, and so I would
Speaker 1: say with yes, some of that guava note, but not
Speaker 1: as much as I expected. Yes, so the guava lent
Speaker 1: it that like guala passion fruit, like tropical flavors, like
Speaker 1: it makes me think of like not Skittles, but the
Speaker 1: tropical skittles yea, where you know, I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: it's hard to explain kind of that softness that you
Speaker 1: get with some of the tropical flavors. But we definitely
Speaker 1: had that going on in conjunction with the fact that
Speaker 1: I assumed there was lactose in this considering it was
Speaker 1: a milkshake milkshake I pa, but with it being an
Speaker 1: ipa that also it wasn't overly sweet because you had
Speaker 1: the bitterness from the hops that worked really well. And
Speaker 1: actually really dug this one, and I dug the label too.
Speaker 1: It's got the unicorn on there, and we were joking
Speaker 1: before we hit record that, uh is it weld works?
Speaker 1: They They've got like a lot of unicorn imagery with
Speaker 1: their brand, and so it might be them. Somebody's got
Speaker 1: the ninja versus unicorn. All Yes, yeah, I think that's
Speaker 1: what works. I could be wrong. No, I don't think
Speaker 1: it is. I think it's it's half acre or something
Speaker 1: like that. Maybe. Oh, I don't know. I should We
Speaker 1: should not. We should. We're craft beer experts, Matt, we
Speaker 1: should know. But they've got multiple beers that are all unicorn,
Speaker 1: unicorn based whatever. So I hope Common whoops almost dropped
Speaker 1: Common Space doesn't get shut down because they got the
Speaker 1: Unicorn on there. Hope they don't get the cease and desists.
Speaker 1: There's plenty of There's plenty of room out there for
Speaker 1: just like there's plenty of room for all the different
Speaker 1: podcasts out there, there's plenty of room for unicorn and
Speaker 1: craft beer. I love a good like fruited milkshake IPA like.
Speaker 1: One of my favorites of all time is the strawberry
Speaker 1: milkshake IPA from I Want to Wrecking Bar. Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that is a delicious one. But yeah, this one was
Speaker 1: solid and it's Yeah. If you like sours any like IPAs,
Speaker 1: put them together, this is what you get, right, that's right.
Speaker 1: We'll make sure to link to any of the different
Speaker 1: resources we mentioned during this episode up on the website
Speaker 1: and in our show notes at howtomoney dot com, and if
Speaker 1: you are not yet a subscriber to the how to
Speaker 1: Money newsletter, make sure that you are howdomoney dot com
Speaker 1: forward slash newsletter. You can see some of the previous
Speaker 1: issues there to get a sampling, but go ahead and
Speaker 1: sign up to ensure that you don't miss the next
Speaker 1: newsletter that goes out on Tuesday, right tomorrow morning. But buddy,
Speaker 1: that's going to be it for this one until next time.
Speaker 1: Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,