WEBVTT - Missing Pieces PT 1 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:06.760 I'm Kate Winkler Dawson. I'm a journalist who's spent the 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:09.559 last twenty five years writing about true crime. 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:12.800 And I'm Paul Hols, a retired cold case investigator who's 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:16.400 worked some of America's most complicated cases and solve them. 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:19.799 Each week, I present Paul with one of history's most 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:21.720 compelling true crimes. 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.239 And I weigh in using modern forensic techniques to bring 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:26.040 new insights to old mysteries. 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:31.639 Together, using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:34.360 cases through a twenty first century lens. 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.800 Some are solved and some are cold, very cold. 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:39.800 This is buried bones. 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:02.680 Hey, Kate, how are you doing? 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:07.280 I'm doing really well. But more importantly, how is Coorra doing? 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.119 Because we haven't had a Cora update in a really 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:11.800 long time. What's going on with your dog? 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:14.800 Actually? You know, Cora's doing really well. She of course 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.880 is getting older, she's going to be turning twelve this Easter, 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:24.000 and you know, slowing down quite a bit. But you know, 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:26.440 she's actually had quite a bit of a quality of 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:29.840 life improvement lately. You know, I had posted maybe four 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:33.039 months ago on Instagram a picture of Cora down in 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:38.000 my man cave, which is in the basement, and just indicated, hey, 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:41.640 this is very unusual. She's really struggling to navigate stairs. 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:44.720 You know, I thought maybe it was an eyesight problem. 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:47.000 You know, I'd have to kind of guide her down 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.440 and she'd be really tentative to come down the stairs. 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.280 And it's about fifteen steps. It's not a short, short 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:55.639 thing for her at all. Yeah, and then a couple 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:59.160 of the people, I think about five different people talked 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:03.200 about this, this medication that helps with arthritis pain and 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:07.360 I hadn't even thought about that, and took her into 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:11.040 the vet. She said Cora was a good candidate. You know, 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:14.160 she has some muscle wasting in her legs just from age, 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.480 but she got she's on these shots now and it's 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:21.200 like a new dog in many ways. You know, she's 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:24.680 able to get up and down the stairs. She's still 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:27.080 a little tentative. I think there is some eyesight issues, 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:30.160 but even when she goes out for her walks, you know, 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:32.520 she's got a little more pep in her stuff, and 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.760 that in part maybe because it's you know, we've predominantly 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.560 been through the colder season out here in Colorado, and 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:42.960 she loves the snow. She loves the cold. But you know, 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:46.680 right now, things are doing good and so far, you know, 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.280 she's still cancer free, so everything is going good on 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.680 Cora front. So you know, for a ninety pounds yellow lab, 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.520 yet she's not a small lab. You know, she's a 0:02:55.639 --> 0:03:00.680 big lab. And you know she's you know, up there 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:04.000 for the size of dog that she is. But you 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:08.320 know she's been well taken care of. And you know, 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:10.920 the quality of life I think is as improving as 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.239 a result of the you know, the social media suggestions 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:14.800 that I got. 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:18.120 Yeah, I mean I end up getting great suggestions from listeners, 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:21.119 some not so great. Most of the time, I think 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:24.480 they're really helpful. Most of the time. They're really helpful 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.400 when you have experts out there, and some many of 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.320 our listeners are so smart, which is great. I love 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.639 smart listeners and they have all of this expertise. I mean, 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:37.200 I've had just lists of people say I'm in forensics, 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:41.480 or I work with DNA analysis, or I had one 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:44.440 person email me which I loved, who said, I'm an 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.680 expert in like colonial weaponry. If you guys ever want 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:50.880 to come out and shoot well, which I think is great, Oh, 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:54.240 very cool. So you know, I really I love getting 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.680 suggestions like that, and so especially something that's going to 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.760 improve the life of someone we care about so much. 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:07.040 Would you think that the bear encounter was the biggest adventure, trauma, 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:09.880 whatever you want to call it in Cora's life so 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.640 far at age twelve, almost, you. 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:16.919 Know, I would say obviously from our perspective. I mean, 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.240 she had her side tore open, she got a bite 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.400 on her tail, she got some sort of maybe a 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:27.800 claw that went dug into her forehead and had half surgery, 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:30.680 you know. Traumatic for my wife who was with her 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:34.920 at the time, for sure, but Cora didn't seem to care. 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.840 And she still tried to take off after a bear. 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:40.479 And when bears come in through our yard, she's barking 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:44.360 at him, you know. So that that said, don't think 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:46.080 that she's going to be scared of bears. You know, 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.039 she's still going to go after him. Yeah, which is 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:54.320 just it's so weird. We have so many deer, bunny, rabbits, turkeys, 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.880 you name it. Kora just ignores them. Yeah, but if 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.520 it's a bear, you know, she turns in to almost 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:01.559 a vicious dog. 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.640 Just your look. Yeah, she's like you, she's after the 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:07.280 big prey. That's what she's looking for. 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:08.440 I think is the big prey. 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:09.760 That's the whole point of this. 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:11.960 That's kind of a way to put it, I guess. 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:16.839 Yeah. Okay, Well, I'm glad we had a coorra update, 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:19.080 and I'm sure we'll get a fish update at some point. 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:22.000 We don't have time right now, frankly, for a fish update, Paul, 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:26.880 because you really geek out on your aquarium. I'm assuming 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:29.440 everything is okay with the aquarium as of now. 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.120 As of now, yeah, you know it's right here to 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:35.920 my right, I can almost touch it, and yeah we can. 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:37.720 We can talk fish some other time. 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:41.120 Okay, we have a busy day. So this is going 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.320 to be a two parter. You know, this is a 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.799 story in Canada, set in Canada. Love Love, Love Canada. 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.320 This is a story I think about a complicated family, 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:56.360 complicated relationship. But it starts the way I'm always interested 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.760 in these sorts of stories, starting, which is with a 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:05.000 body part found near water. So that isn't that usually 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:08.599 the beginning of a pretty decent true crime story, one 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:10.320 that we want to really dig into. 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:15.159 Yeah, you know, I've had multiple cases that you know, 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.320 parts of body have been on the shoreline, so it 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.080 usually means something bad has happened. 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:24.919 Yeah, yeah, okay, let's go ahead and set the scene. 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:29.880 We are in nineteen forty six Ontario, Canada, and we're 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.520 in the city of Hamilton, which is on the western 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:36.200 end of Lake Ontario. So for sort of a sense 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:38.839 of geography, because I don't know much about Canada, Okay, well, 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.839 I mean I've been to Toronto, I've been to Vancouver, 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.159 I've been to Montreal, and that's it for Canada. But 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:46.720 I loved all three of those cities. 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:48.799 What about you, Yeah, you know, I've been to Vancouver, 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:53.480 and then I flew into Toronto and gave a presentation 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:59.320 to some college students there, then drove to Ottawa, okay, 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:01.520 you know, and ended up it was like a four 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:03.960 hour drive, and so it was first time I've ever 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:08.120 experienced sort of the Canadian countryside, you know. And I 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.400 always enjoy driving and just looking around, so that was 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.960 really cool. But don't have much experience at all up 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:15.520 in Canada. 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:17.840 Yeah, and I didn't either, And I actually had to 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:20.480 look up quite a few things, just procedural stuff that 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:22.240 I didn't know about. You'll care about it in a 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.360 little bit, okay, let's get back to Canada. So nineteen 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:29.680 forty six, Ontario. We're in Hamilton, which is about forty 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:34.239 miles southwest of Toronto fifty five miles northwest of Buffalo, 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:36.800 New York. I always forget how close parts of New 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:39.880 York and Canada are. In Hamilton, the population is at 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:43.360 about one hundred and eighty thousand in the mid nineteen forties. 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:45.120 Oh, it's a pretty big placing. 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:48.040 I have very little reference for Canada as far as 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.680 the size of cities, but it did seem like a 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:53.560 pretty good size for in the nineteen forties. So we've 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:57.320 talked about this so many times. It's unreal. Kids finding 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.920 terrible things because kids are kids and they like to 0:07:59.880 --> 0:08:03.960 get into stuff and mess around. So on October sixteenth, 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:07.120 there's a group of kids that are hiking along a trail. 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:11.320 This is near an area called Albion Falls, and they 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:16.240 stumble upon a male torso. So this is probably my 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:20.040 nativity with this, but it's limbless and headless. I would 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:23.680 know this. I understood this part, but I guess I 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:26.920 didn't also know that the definition of the torso would 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.920 be the back, the abdomen, and the chest and the 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:33.559 pelvis And the reason that this is even a thing 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:36.720 is because the torso is dressed in a pair of 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:41.160 shorts and an undershirt, which seemed really weird, And at 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:44.840 first I thought shorts on a torso, But then you know, 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:48.840 Maren said, well pelvis is included with that traumatizing scene 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:49.640 for these kids. 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.920 Oh yeah, no, absolutely, you know this is a headless, 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.520 limbless body, right, so in essence, you know, of course 0:08:56.559 --> 0:09:00.520 I want to hear how the dismemberment occurred, right, because 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:05.560 oftentimes the body is bisected, you know, through the abdominal area, 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:07.560 because all you know, the hardest part is just cutting 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:12.320 through the spine. But here you've got somebody. Sounds like 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:16.040 they're trying to remove the body parts that could lead 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:20.760 to identification, the head, the hands. So that's interesting. 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:24.800 They're leaving on shorts and an undershirt. I don't know 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.760 why I found that weird and surprising, but I did. 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:29.920 Well, well, I think the question is is did they 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.920 actually leave those items of clothing on, or did they 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:37.880 redress this torso maybe for you know, moving the body 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:40.280 around for you know, I don't know if you want 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.160 to say, if it's just to make it a little 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:45.400 bit less bloody, for them. Do you have pictures? 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:48.280 No, I don't know you've loved have pictures of the 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:52.000 HEADLESSLM mis torso, do not. I have a picture of 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.480 the area, though, which could be helpful. The police, of 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:58.880 course respond, I'm imagining it's cold. It's March in Canada, 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:02.040 so that's good news for us. But these are body 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.120 parts that are found along or near a trail. So 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:09.560 let me show you the scene, which is probably going 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:12.720 to be the most helpful photo that I have, So 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:16.800 hang on so you'll see the really helpful little black 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:22.240 arrow pointed to where it's found. And the police essentially 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.640 say they think that that the killer or somebody was 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:28.360 driving along this road and just toss the torso out. 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:30.839 It's not buried, it's not really hidden, it's just sort 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:31.400 of dumped. 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:35.000 Yeah. So I'm looking at a picture and this appears 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:40.280 to be a picture where the photographer is capturing what 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:44.120 appears to be a dirt road that has a relatively 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:48.480 steep embankment going off of the far side of the 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:52.000 road from where the photographer is standing, and you know, 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:56.920 fairly significant number of trees and bushes with no leaves 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:00.559 on them, so it's obviously now fall wintertime. You know, 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.480 I think the determination of whether the torso was pushed 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.520 out of a moving vehicle or had been pulled out 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:11.600 is more you know how the torso was positioned, you know, 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:15.240 down this embankment as well as you know this car 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:17.920 is moving and the torso is just kind of pushed out, 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:20.720 And that's not necessarily an easy thing if you're dealing 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.640 with just a single offender who's also driving. But if 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.920 that torso has momentum forward, then of course it's going 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.439 to tumble some distance if the car has any speed, 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.400 and so there would probably be a fair amount of 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:37.680 abrasion showing this tumbling action. And that's where you know, 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:40.640 photos could be helpful. But at this point in time, 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:45.079 you know, this looks like a relatively straightforward body dump location. 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:49.840 It's a location in which, once the torso has put 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:53.520 down the embankment, if it falls far enough down this embankment, 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:58.000 then people passing by probably would not pay any attention, 0:11:58.080 --> 0:11:58.880 not know that it's there. 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:07.000 If they are trying to conceal the identity of this man, 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:09.760 then why would they just not cut off the head 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.240 and cut off the hands, Because fingerprinting would have been 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.600 a thing in forty six. Why not cut off the 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.200 hands and cut off the head and that's it. Why 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.000 go to the trouble of this total dismemberment. Would you 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:21.600 think at this point. 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:24.040 Well, you know, I think there's a couple of reasons. 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:28.400 You know, first, if the dismemberment is just to prevent 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:32.880 identification or delay identification, I've got a body, an old 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.240 cold case in which the head and the hand's been 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:39.240 cut off, and then the body was weighed down in 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:43.120 the Sacramento River delta, but it ended up bobbing. So 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.400 now we had a headless torso, if you will, bobbing 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:49.679 in the waves and was easily found. When you think 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:53.320 about identification, of course, people are thinking about the facial features, 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:57.959 you know, the fingerprints from the hands. Now does this 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:03.000 torso have any identifying tattoos on the upper arms, on 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.880 the legs, and is there a reason to remove those 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:10.800 limbs to prevent the tattoos from being seen or other 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:16.400 characteristics that might help somebody identify the body. Oftentimes, you know, 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:20.600 the limbs are removed in order to have a smaller 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.880 package to move around, you know. So there's also that 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:28.280 component of dismemberment. But that's where you start to see 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:33.280 as I mentioned earlier, now the torso itself is bisected 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:37.480 in the abdominal area, so now you have smaller packages 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.760 to be able to package up and distribute, you know, 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.280 across the countryside. If that's what your plans are. 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.480 Do you remember the story of the woman who either 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:51.719 murdered or participated in the murder of a man and 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:55.080 carried his torso wrapped in I think what they were 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.440 describing as like a hat strap, where you would, you know, 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:00.440 have a hat box and put straps around. And she 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.440 had this torso wrapped up in this package and carried 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.240 it on a train, and people thought it was so odd. 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:08.880 And that was the idea of exactly what she said, 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:10.680 which is it was easy to transport. And then she 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:13.840 did kind of this. She dumped it by our riverbank, 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:15.800 I think, is what it was in that case, So 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:20.000 that makes sense. I will say, there are some odd 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:23.680 identifying things about this torso. So if they were aiming 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:30.200 to not be able to have corroborating details between who 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.440 we find out the victim is versus this torso, I 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.040 don't think they did a great job. But let me 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.360 tell you a couple of things first. Okay, so they 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:40.920 don't find any other body parts. Okay, so it's just 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.560 this torso. And they think the torso has been here 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.400 for about ten days. And as I said, they thought 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.400 that it was tossed out of a moving car before 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:54.360 winding up in this resting spot. Now there's a little 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:58.440 list of interesting things. Okay. There are two superficial gunshot 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:02.880 wounds on the chest. No bullets, so skimming or whatever 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:05.200 you want to call it. They don't know what the 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:09.080 size are, but the medical examiner said this did not 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:11.760 kill him. They're superficial wounds. But somebody was shooting at 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.560 the sky, so no casing, no bullets. There are two 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:17.800 features that they are going to find helpful and I 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:21.960 might need your help on both. One is assist on 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:26.240 the torso's posterior. That's like tushi, right. I know that's 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.320 not the technical term, but if they're saying posterior, it's 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:29.960 the backside. 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.400 I mean it could be the buttocks, it could be 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:36.720 the back Okay. But yeah, obviously there's some sort of mass, 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.280 you know, cysts like mass on the back of this torso. 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.960 Also something I really know nothing about, which is a 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:48.720 undescended testicle. What does that mean? You see, you're smiling. 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:52.040 Is this really something you can use in help anything 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:53.360 helpful in an investigation? 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:58.920 Potentially, because when males are developing, the testes of course 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:05.880 developed internally, and then as this male develops, the testes 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:10.600 descend down into the scrotal sack, and you can have 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:16.760 boys born with undeescended testicles or one undeescended testicle as 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:19.640 it sounds like in this case. So it's a physical 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:25.200 feature that could potentially be useful to help identify this body. 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:29.000 If a loved one comes forward, a spouse, a family 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:33.040 member and says, hey, you know our son, my husband, 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:38.080 whatever is missing. What are some physical characteristics and outside 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.000 of size, highweight or whatever, it's like, well, also the 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.560 undeescended testes, you know, that could be something that they go, okay, well, 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:47.320 this is like this torso's matching up with the description 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:49.640 of this missing person, and it may be something that 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:53.160 could be used, you know, in nineteen forty six put 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:57.040 in the newspapers. It's a little bit personal, but you know, 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.720 if you're trying to figure out who this guy is, 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:01.520 that's a feature. 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.760 They finally put it together who the torso is, and 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.280 he is a thirty nine year old man. His name 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:15.280 is John Dick and he came from Russia to Canada 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.120 about twenty years earlier, in the nineteen twenties, and he 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.919 is missing. He's been declared missing for around two weeks 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:24.880 ten days, which is how long the medical examiner thought 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:27.560 the torso had been there. He's a bus and streetcar 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:31.320 driver for the Hamilton Street Railway, which is the city's 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:36.720 transport agency. He was last seen March sixth, nineteen forty six, 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.840 so ten days earlier, but we don't really know where. 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:42.560 The reports have varied. Some say that he was as 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.680 cousin's house, where he was living at the time, even 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:48.119 though he's married. Others say that he was eating a 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:52.639 meal at the Windsor Hotel in Hamilton. But really the 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:55.320 big deal is that he is married, and the police 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.840 want to talk to his wife, whose name is Evelyn, 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:01.960 as soon as possible. He has just been newly married 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.639 six months earlier. So they don't know very much about 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.640 him except that he's a laborer and you know, see 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.960 no record, seems to be a good citizen and now 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:15.160 he is this torso And they don't have any other 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:17.840 body parts so far, and they don't have a conclusive 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:18.560 cause of death. 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:19.560 How old did you say? 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.320 He was thirty nine? So what did you think about 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.040 that with the dicended testicle? 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:26.240 Yeah, so, who reported him missing? 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:28.120 Sounds like his wife, So. 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.679 I would assume that she's aware that, you know, this 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:35.920 is one of his characteristics. And when they find this torso, 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:40.560 you know she comes in and reports John missing, you know, 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:42.840 this would be something where they'd call her up and say, hey, 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:45.439 can you give us some more information about, you know, 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:47.119 his physical state. 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:48.000 Yeah, and if she. 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.399 Mentioned this and they're going, okay, we might be on 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:55.119 the right track here that this could be John. But 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:59.080 in terms of you know, that physical trait, you know, 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:01.600 I would never rely upon something like that as the 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:05.399 sole means of identification. It's just a consistent feature. And 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.880 so now more needs to be done to identify this torso. 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:13.320 Okay, Well, it sounds like they're fairly confident. I guess 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:15.880 some of the clothing from the torso matches his, and 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.800 he's been missing, and Evelyn is completely freaking out his 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.760 wife and they've only been married about six months. I 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:26.159 will tell you that they obviously think this is murder, 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:28.520 and they think Evelyn had something to do with it, 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:32.160 because there's no one right now in his inner circle 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:36.720 that they can identify that would be problematic. Ethlen Dick 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:42.320 is problematic as a suspect and as a witness. And 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:44.679 I will also say that this is going to be 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:48.480 a story involves slutshaming, which I hate that phrase, but 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:51.080 there's no other way to describe it in this story. 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.200 And so I think that our edict is to figure 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:58.199 out the actual facts in this case, because it is 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:02.360 still a mystery here versus you know, what is all 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:06.440 the smoke and mirrors and the circumstantial stuff that happens. 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:10.960 They are very quickly zeroing in on Evelyn because she 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:13.240 has quite a reputation, and we can kind of talk 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:16.800 about your experience maybe with that in more modern cases too. 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.520 You mentioned that John was living with his cousin at 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:24.520 the time he goes missing, and not with Evelyn. M hm. 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.680 So it sounds like he's estranged in the marriage. Even 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.240 though they I mean literally been married only six months. 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:35.239 They've been having a really hard time almost immediately, they 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:37.439 had a hard time, okay, And I can give you 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:41.239 some background on her and on them, and you know, 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:44.560 normally I would sort of take you through different suspects 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:48.760 and different potentials there aren't any other potentials here. It's 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:51.200 whether or not. This is a strong case, I think 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:54.320 with Evelyn, and there are a lot of people involved. 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:57.680 So he's living with a cousin right now because they 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.680 are having almost immediate problems in their marriage. 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:05.360 Absolutely okay. So they obviously after figuring out this torso 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:07.200 is John, then they interview Evelyn. 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:11.320 Yep, they do. She is upset and frantic and confused 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:14.879 about what happened, and the police start digging around and 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:18.240 trying to figure out who she is. Because it doesn't 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:20.680 take long to figure out that Evelyn has had quite 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.640 a reputation. She's sort of unframed as a social light 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:27.280 in the nineteen forties in a socialite Paul, because she 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:31.639 has dated really powerful people in this area, in this 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:35.639 part of candidate, powerful men, so that that immediately puts 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:40.040 her on their on the police's radar because they start 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:43.240 thinking immediately, well, who else could be responsible? She wants 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:45.800 to knock this guy off for whatever reason. And I 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:47.480 don't know if that's fair yet, We'll have to see. 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:50.080 No. And when you say powerful men, I'm assuming politically 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:52.640 and or financially powerful. 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:57.359 Yep, business politics, you name it. Okay, So the facts 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:01.359 are right now John is dead fifteen years older, so 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:05.080 her husband's fifteen years older and he is dead. She 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.000 is upset. She claims to know nothing about this, but 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:11.800 they are now really quickly on unraveling who Evelyn Dick is, 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:13.879 and the police don't like it in Canada, which is 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:14.920 fairly conservative. 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:18.160 Okay, So Evelyn is roughly twenty four years old, She's 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:22.200 been married to John for six months. She's had dating 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:27.880 relationships with these powerful men. Yep. Were these relationships all 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:31.200 before the marriage or were there some relationships occurring during 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:31.919 the marriage? 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:35.560 Yes, yes to both of those. Yes, And I mean 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:38.719 throughout from the first week when they got married all 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:43.280 the way back through she's had relationships. So even though 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:46.439 Evelyn is on their radar, there's a long list of 0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:48.960 suspects as far as this goes, you know, who could 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:50.080 have targeted him. 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:53.320 Yeah, and at this point, pretty much you're putting all 0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:58.640 the chips in on Evelyn and this pool of men 0:22:58.680 --> 0:23:01.639 that have been in her life for either a while 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:02.400 or recently. 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:03.119 Yep. 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:06.639 Is there anything about, you know, the victimology of John 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:10.399 that is separate from this that we need to worry about, 0:23:11.280 --> 0:23:13.880 you know, in terms of you know, what I'm trying 0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:16.879 to figure out is the reason John is dead because 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:20.359 of something he got involved with versus the marriage to 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:22.200 Evelyn and whatever is going on there. 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:27.920 You are a brilliant man, Pouls, because yes, yes, yes, 0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:30.439 there's all sorts of intersections of him getting involved in 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:32.879 some things he shouldn't be, but that also involved Evelyn. 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:35.800 So let me, I'm so cryptic everything I've felt the 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:36.760 last five minutes. 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:37.640 You always are. 0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:40.280 I think the last five minutes have been the most 0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:42.440 cryptic I've ever been with you. Let me tell you 0:23:42.520 --> 0:23:45.040 about Evelyn because all of this is important. Her family 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:47.960 details are important. So she's twenty five and he is 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:51.680 thirty nine. She is the only child of two immigrants. 0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:55.240 So remember John came from Russia. Her parents, Donald and 0:23:55.280 --> 0:24:00.160 Alexandra come from Scotland, and when she was a baby, 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:06.359 they moved from Beamsville, Ontario, to Hamilton and Donald also 0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:09.879 drove street cars. The dad, her dad, drove street cars 0:24:10.440 --> 0:24:13.920 for the Hamilton Street Railway. And it sounds like that's 0:24:13.920 --> 0:24:18.760 how John and Evelyn met was because Donald the dad 0:24:19.080 --> 0:24:21.600 and John worked at the same place. Does that make 0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:22.240 sense so far? 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:25.960 Yeah, So it's like Donald, Evelyn's father, is the one 0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:28.200 that potentially introduced John and Evelyn. 0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:32.240 Yes, yes, so, according to what Marin found in the 0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:35.600 source material, Evelyn had a tough childhood. It sounds like 0:24:35.760 --> 0:24:39.840 Donald was very temperamental and alcoholic. It sounds like she 0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:43.960 was physically abused by both of her parents, and at 0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:48.199 times Donald and Alexandra, the mother, would live apart, and 0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:52.040 Evelyn often stayed with her mom and Donald, which this 0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:54.679 will become important later on. Was really bad with money, 0:24:54.920 --> 0:24:59.320 and during her childhood the family lived away beyond their means. 0:24:59.400 --> 0:25:03.800 And Donald got this extra income by stealing from his employer. 0:25:04.320 --> 0:25:07.320 So that's the same employer that John works for. Right, 0:25:07.359 --> 0:25:10.680 this is the railway place. The Waterloo Chronicle, which is 0:25:10.720 --> 0:25:15.400 a newspaper, reported that Donald had ripped off the railway 0:25:15.560 --> 0:25:19.200 for hundreds of thousands of dollars in nineteen forty six. 0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:22.560 It's a lot of money by pilfering fair box money 0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:26.040 and tickets over several years. So this is not a 0:25:26.200 --> 0:25:28.800 grab money from the till and run. This is somebody 0:25:28.800 --> 0:25:32.960 who's stealing money for years and years and years. So 0:25:33.119 --> 0:25:36.600 you can imagine that probably John knew about that, and 0:25:36.600 --> 0:25:38.440 that's why I'm saying the story is a little more 0:25:38.440 --> 0:25:41.720 complicated than you know, just a bad marriage. Now you've 0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:44.600 got a father in law who you know has been 0:25:44.600 --> 0:25:46.720 doing some pretty bad things, and it would be very 0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:48.920 difficult to think that John would not know about it. 0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:49.800 We don't know yet. 0:25:50.000 --> 0:25:53.560 Well, I'm wondering if John and Evelyn benefited from Donald's 0:25:53.800 --> 0:25:56.359 theft of the railways. 0:25:56.720 --> 0:25:59.920 Maybe so, you know, it's interesting that she stayed close 0:26:00.160 --> 0:26:04.359 with her dad despite their history. But she's apparently close 0:26:04.400 --> 0:26:07.560 to both of her parents. She lived with them. I 0:26:07.560 --> 0:26:11.359 guess they got back together Alexandra and Donald into her twenties, 0:26:11.800 --> 0:26:15.800 and you know, Evelyn grew into being an attractive woman, 0:26:16.000 --> 0:26:19.639 sometimes described as a socialite. She is also this is 0:26:19.640 --> 0:26:23.640 where we get sexist, boy. Sometimes she's described as an 0:26:23.960 --> 0:26:27.720 escort or a sex worker, and it's mostly because Paul, 0:26:27.840 --> 0:26:30.360 I mean nineteen forty six. It's mostly because she does 0:26:30.440 --> 0:26:33.720 have money and not the job that should be paying 0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:38.440 her that money. I suspect that it is her benefiting 0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:41.320 from her dad. There's zero evidence that she was ever 0:26:41.359 --> 0:26:44.080 a sex worker or an escort, but you know, that 0:26:44.720 --> 0:26:47.760 is one thing is that you know, she is described 0:26:47.800 --> 0:26:50.760 as this woman who lives beyond her means, and nobody 0:26:50.760 --> 0:26:52.480 knows where the money is coming from. 0:26:52.640 --> 0:26:55.920 Yeah, well, if Dad's stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars 0:26:55.960 --> 0:26:59.240 in nineteen forty six money, you know, that's a fair 0:26:59.280 --> 0:27:03.240 amount of health that he could distribute to Evelyn. It 0:27:03.560 --> 0:27:06.000 does come down to how does this factor into John's 0:27:06.040 --> 0:27:08.000 homicide though, you know that's going to be the key. 0:27:08.040 --> 0:27:11.960 If did John blackmail Donald yet know something to that effect. 0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:16.800 He's estrange from Evelyn at the time of his homicide, 0:27:17.080 --> 0:27:22.120 so he's basically saying, I still need money coming from you, Donald, 0:27:22.400 --> 0:27:25.320 or I'm going to tell you know, there could potentially 0:27:25.359 --> 0:27:28.320 be a motive there. I'll just note that at this 0:27:28.400 --> 0:27:29.080 point in time. 0:27:29.440 --> 0:27:34.440 Okay, so we'll move along here. Evelyn, as she got older, attracted, 0:27:34.440 --> 0:27:37.800 as I've said before, many different kinds of men, and 0:27:38.160 --> 0:27:40.520 she dated a lot of rich and prominent local men. 0:27:40.840 --> 0:27:43.879 She didn't marry any of them. The Globe and Mail, 0:27:43.920 --> 0:27:46.800 which is another newspaper, reported that at the time she 0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:50.080 claimed to have had sexual relations with most of the 0:27:50.119 --> 0:27:53.040 movers and shakers in Hamilton. This is not against the law. 0:27:53.240 --> 0:27:55.840 She can sleep with whoever she wants. And she also 0:27:55.960 --> 0:28:00.159 had a string of out of wedlock pregnancies in her 0:28:00.240 --> 0:28:04.040 early twenties. Now you can see in nineteen forty six Canada, 0:28:04.280 --> 0:28:07.600 why when the police start learning about all of this stuff. 0:28:07.600 --> 0:28:08.840 I mean, this is I know it's one hundred and 0:28:08.840 --> 0:28:11.560 eighty thousand people, but still it wouldn't have taken long 0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:15.679 to figure out her reputation. They zero in on her. 0:28:16.320 --> 0:28:19.560 Now that I've heard about Donald and what he is doing. 0:28:20.080 --> 0:28:22.479 Now I'm less concerned about Evelyn, a little bit more 0:28:22.520 --> 0:28:25.160 concerned about Donald. But you know there are intertwined. 0:28:25.200 --> 0:28:28.119 What do we know so far with this type of 0:28:28.240 --> 0:28:31.840 victimology with John? With what you have said so far? 0:28:32.080 --> 0:28:34.480 You know that the big question is is who benefits 0:28:34.880 --> 0:28:39.719 from John being killed? And what is that benefit? You know, 0:28:39.840 --> 0:28:44.000 Evelyn sounds like she has no problem attracting men, and 0:28:44.080 --> 0:28:48.400 she can attract men that have far more assets, if 0:28:48.400 --> 0:28:52.000 you will, than what John can provide. You know, why 0:28:52.040 --> 0:28:55.960 does Evelyn ultimately marry John? You know what kind of 0:28:56.040 --> 0:28:58.480 arrangement was there? Did they truly fall in love? Is 0:28:58.520 --> 0:29:00.800 there some other reason for that man marriage? And Evelyn 0:29:00.840 --> 0:29:04.640 didn't want that marriage, So that's I think a factor. 0:29:05.200 --> 0:29:09.680 And then is there a spurned lover of Evelyn? Which 0:29:09.720 --> 0:29:13.960 sounds like there very possibly could be, and that spurned 0:29:14.000 --> 0:29:17.640 lover decided to take John out, and then of course 0:29:17.880 --> 0:29:23.120 all the financial aspects that sounds like this family is 0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:25.240 involved with on a criminal level. 0:29:26.040 --> 0:29:28.360 I'm not sure John Dick knew what he was getting 0:29:28.400 --> 0:29:31.800 into when he married Evelyn and into the family, which 0:29:31.840 --> 0:29:34.800 sounds volatile to say the least. Let me tell you 0:29:34.840 --> 0:29:38.600 a little bit about her background with kids, which is 0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:43.600 also important. So in nineteen forty two, she was twenty 0:29:43.640 --> 0:29:46.120 one and she gave birth to a daughter named Heather. 0:29:46.560 --> 0:29:48.840 Less than a year later, she gave birth to a 0:29:48.960 --> 0:29:51.960 stillborn little girl. About a year and a half later, 0:29:52.560 --> 0:29:55.920 she had another child, whom she named Peter, a little boy. 0:29:56.440 --> 0:29:59.400 He was healthy. We don't know anything about these fathers. 0:30:00.160 --> 0:30:04.120 She gave Peter up for adoption to an organization called 0:30:04.160 --> 0:30:07.960 the Children's Aid Society when he was about ten days old. 0:30:08.560 --> 0:30:11.120 So all of this is to say, you know, I 0:30:11.160 --> 0:30:13.480 had mentioned that before this this would be something that 0:30:13.600 --> 0:30:16.000 her parents or would tell the police, or you know, 0:30:16.000 --> 0:30:19.160 people would say, this is part of her reputation. She's 0:30:19.200 --> 0:30:22.440 given birth, she hasn't been married. John's her first marriage. 0:30:22.800 --> 0:30:25.920 So this is all stuff that builds into I think 0:30:25.920 --> 0:30:29.760 what'll eventually be the slutshaming part. Of this, it's all 0:30:29.800 --> 0:30:32.480 sort of coming together as this is a family, well 0:30:32.480 --> 0:30:34.960 at least with Evelyn, this is a family that's troubled. 0:30:35.320 --> 0:30:38.480 And now you know, John is dead. None of the 0:30:38.560 --> 0:30:41.640 men involved seem right now to be coming into play, 0:30:41.680 --> 0:30:44.480 any of the fathers of these kids. But it sounds 0:30:44.520 --> 0:30:48.080 like they're all different, you know, fathers. Let's see. Now, 0:30:48.160 --> 0:30:52.160 let's get to when she marries John. It's presumably through 0:30:52.200 --> 0:30:54.920 her father's work, as I said, with the transportation, with 0:30:54.960 --> 0:30:59.959 the railway agency. They meet in summer of nineteen forty five. 0:31:00.880 --> 0:31:04.160 He is killed in early March of nineteen forty six. 0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:08.520 Who talk about whirlwind. So they meet in the summer 0:31:08.560 --> 0:31:12.120 of forty five. First lie. She says to John that 0:31:12.200 --> 0:31:15.320 she was widowed after her husband was killed at war, 0:31:15.800 --> 0:31:18.480 and that was a lie. So first lie. But so far, 0:31:18.600 --> 0:31:21.440 that's all I've been able to find on Evelyn. They 0:31:21.480 --> 0:31:25.800 were engaged within weeks of meeting, and then married just 0:31:25.840 --> 0:31:28.080 a couple of months after that in October, and then 0:31:28.120 --> 0:31:31.040 he's dead in March. So this was very very quick. 0:31:31.640 --> 0:31:34.720 He does not have any money, he really doesn't, and 0:31:34.840 --> 0:31:37.280 it is you're right, a big question mark about why 0:31:37.400 --> 0:31:40.080 this guy when she probably could have married somebody who 0:31:40.120 --> 0:31:43.760 was middle class versus maybe more working class. And so 0:31:44.240 --> 0:31:46.200 one of the things I think the speculation is that 0:31:46.280 --> 0:31:49.040 maybe John sold himself as having more money than he 0:31:49.080 --> 0:31:52.280 did because this was so WorldWind I know, Donald was 0:31:52.400 --> 0:31:55.280 unhappy about this. Her dad did not want this marriage 0:31:55.320 --> 0:31:57.720 to happen, and that's why I'm saying it was unlikely 0:31:57.800 --> 0:32:00.160 that he was the one who introduced the two of them. 0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:03.080 He was very unhappy that they got married. I'm assuming 0:32:03.120 --> 0:32:05.000 that he wanted her to marry one of these rich 0:32:05.040 --> 0:32:06.240 guys that she was dating. 0:32:06.720 --> 0:32:10.520 Yeah, so Donald's perspective is John, you know, he's got 0:32:10.520 --> 0:32:15.120 eyes and ears around the job, you know. And maybe 0:32:15.160 --> 0:32:19.640 Donald is trying to operate with this financial theft and 0:32:19.760 --> 0:32:23.800 doesn't need a family member paying attention to him. So 0:32:23.840 --> 0:32:26.840 there's I can see where Donald is not liking this 0:32:26.960 --> 0:32:31.000 relationship just from that perspective, and whether or not Donald 0:32:31.280 --> 0:32:34.440 was wanting his daughter to actually, you know, marry wealthy 0:32:34.600 --> 0:32:37.480 or you know, marry well, you know, that's that could 0:32:37.520 --> 0:32:40.640 be a factor. But Evelyn ultimately is one that has 0:32:40.640 --> 0:32:44.560 to be making the decision to marry John, and so 0:32:44.680 --> 0:32:49.480 I wonder considering who else she has been in relationships 0:32:49.560 --> 0:32:53.520 with It still comes down to why John. And maybe 0:32:53.560 --> 0:32:57.880 she saw John as a bit of a patsy, somebody 0:32:57.880 --> 0:33:02.280 that she could manipulate for whatever reason, and decided to 0:33:02.320 --> 0:33:06.040 take advantage of that. And whether or not that occurred, 0:33:06.080 --> 0:33:09.800 who knows, But that's something I'm curious about. That relationship 0:33:09.840 --> 0:33:14.480 seems odd considering everything surrounding Evelyn during you know, the 0:33:14.560 --> 0:33:16.160 years leading up to the marriage. 0:33:16.400 --> 0:33:19.680 Well, let's talk about odd. Odd is that she made 0:33:19.680 --> 0:33:22.640 the down payment on their house. She's the only one 0:33:22.640 --> 0:33:25.520 on the deed to this house. That could not have 0:33:25.760 --> 0:33:29.160 made John feel very good. Or maybe he thought, kaching, 0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:32.120 I found a woman who has more money than I 0:33:32.280 --> 0:33:35.120 do at dad's money. Yeah, you know, I don't know 0:33:35.160 --> 0:33:38.440 what he was thinking, but that was a pretty unusual arrangement. 0:33:38.640 --> 0:33:40.960 But she is the only one on the deed, which, 0:33:41.120 --> 0:33:44.440 because we're talking about a true crime case, is important. 0:33:44.880 --> 0:33:49.440 No, absolutely, it sounds from Evelyn's perspective. You know, any 0:33:49.480 --> 0:33:52.840 time you have let's say this, these deeds with property, 0:33:53.080 --> 0:33:55.680 you know, typically you hold on to that property for 0:33:55.960 --> 0:33:59.719 a period of time, and if it's a married couple, 0:33:59.840 --> 0:34:03.880 you usually both people are on that deed. The fact 0:34:03.880 --> 0:34:07.440 that in nineteen forty six, a woman is the sole 0:34:07.720 --> 0:34:12.960 owner of that property even though she's married. That just 0:34:13.000 --> 0:34:17.839 speaks that from whatever perspective she had, there was a 0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:21.440 lack of permanence with the marriage to John, and she 0:34:21.640 --> 0:34:25.720 was ensuring that, you know, this property would be hers 0:34:26.320 --> 0:34:29.719 after the marriage. You know, of course, different states have 0:34:29.920 --> 0:34:34.600 different community property aspects, you know, in divorce scenarios. But 0:34:34.880 --> 0:34:38.360 you know, right now this we're talking Canada, right, So 0:34:38.440 --> 0:34:40.680 I don't even know how that would work up there. 0:34:41.200 --> 0:34:43.880 She must have figured out his money situation before they 0:34:43.880 --> 0:34:46.960 got married. I mean, I can't even imagine. Maybe she 0:34:47.000 --> 0:34:49.960 really loved him. I don't know. Obviously, was smart of 0:34:49.960 --> 0:34:55.120 her putting the money down and making payments I presume 0:34:55.160 --> 0:34:57.959 from her dad. She's not working. We don't know where 0:34:57.960 --> 0:35:00.600 she's getting the money from. I'm not buying sex worker 0:35:00.640 --> 0:35:03.759 stuff just yet. So now let's talk about some big 0:35:03.760 --> 0:35:08.879 red flags. Their marriage immediately fell apart, so she would 0:35:08.960 --> 0:35:11.520 later say that within days of her wedding she was 0:35:11.719 --> 0:35:14.360 I mean, to Evelyn's credit, she's very open about this stuff. 0:35:14.719 --> 0:35:17.440 Within days of their wedding, she had already cheated on 0:35:17.600 --> 0:35:20.120 him with this guy who will be important later on. 0:35:20.160 --> 0:35:23.520 He's twenty seven years old and his name is Bill Bohazik, 0:35:23.960 --> 0:35:28.239 so closer to her age, but still she reportedly she 0:35:28.400 --> 0:35:32.600 admits to sleeping with more men in the following weeks 0:35:32.719 --> 0:35:35.960 of their marriage, and after just three months, the couple 0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:39.200 separated and John moved out because it was her house 0:35:39.520 --> 0:35:42.799 and he moves in with his cousin. And despite the separation, 0:35:43.480 --> 0:35:46.880 he really wants her back. He loves her. He doesn't 0:35:46.880 --> 0:35:50.680 want to get a divorce. He calls Evelyn's dad, Donald 0:35:51.320 --> 0:35:54.719 and says, please get her to come back to me. 0:35:55.200 --> 0:35:58.279 You know, I'm good for her. But Donald basically says, 0:35:58.280 --> 0:36:00.480 go kick Rocks. I have zero interesting you being my 0:36:00.520 --> 0:36:02.920 son in law anymore. You're not good enough for her anyway, 0:36:03.560 --> 0:36:07.240 and that's it. John is getting nowhere in getting Evelyn back. 0:36:07.480 --> 0:36:09.799 So she has the house, you know, because it's in 0:36:09.840 --> 0:36:12.719 her name, and he is out in the cold on 0:36:12.800 --> 0:36:13.840 his cousin's couch. 0:36:14.000 --> 0:36:16.120 It sounds like, well, it just it just speaks to 0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:21.520 you know, Evelyn is not changing her lifestyle even though 0:36:21.600 --> 0:36:24.680 she's entering into a marriage with John. I mean, considering 0:36:24.800 --> 0:36:28.120 she's with Bill, you know, a couple of days after 0:36:28.400 --> 0:36:31.719 the marriage, which would generally be you know, at least 0:36:31.760 --> 0:36:35.320 in this day and age during the honeymoon period, right, Yeah, 0:36:35.360 --> 0:36:38.080 and so this really calls into question in my mind 0:36:38.120 --> 0:36:40.920 as to well, why did Evelyn even bother marrying John? 0:36:41.400 --> 0:36:44.759 How does it benefit Evelyn to be married to this man? 0:36:45.640 --> 0:36:49.680 And so I start questioning Evelyn's motives for this marriage, 0:36:49.880 --> 0:36:54.400 you know, and part of maybe this spousal relationship the 0:36:54.480 --> 0:36:58.840 legal aspect of being a spouse. And again we're talking Canada, 0:36:58.920 --> 0:37:01.880 so I have no idea, but I'm looking at it 0:37:01.920 --> 0:37:06.080 from a perspective, well what kicks in that benefits Evelyn 0:37:06.920 --> 0:37:10.640 when this marriage goes away and John is killed? And 0:37:10.680 --> 0:37:12.600 you know, number one thing that comes into mind is, well, 0:37:12.640 --> 0:37:14.839 did she take out a life insurance policy on him? 0:37:15.080 --> 0:37:18.000 There's no evidence of that, no evidence of that kind 0:37:18.000 --> 0:37:21.320 of financial gain. We don't see that. Okay, that being said, Paul, 0:37:21.640 --> 0:37:23.719 I don't know how you work for something like a 0:37:23.800 --> 0:37:26.880 railway and not have some kind of There must have 0:37:26.960 --> 0:37:28.920 been some kind of financial benefit for her. 0:37:29.200 --> 0:37:32.279 I don't know what, but potentially, yeah, because you could 0:37:32.360 --> 0:37:37.040 see where you know, John is thirty nine. Do we 0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:39.560 know how long he was working for the railway? This 0:37:39.800 --> 0:37:41.279 HSR was it? 0:37:41.760 --> 0:37:43.359 Yeah? I mean I think if this was a long 0:37:43.440 --> 0:37:46.000 term thing, this was not an immediate I think this 0:37:46.040 --> 0:37:46.960 has been a long time. 0:37:47.200 --> 0:37:51.040 So yes, he potentially has some some sort of long 0:37:51.120 --> 0:37:54.680 term benefits that would be passed to his surviving spouse, 0:37:54.920 --> 0:37:56.719 you know, And so there could be some sort of 0:37:56.719 --> 0:38:00.280 gain on Evelyn's part. But then she could pretend, actually, 0:38:00.320 --> 0:38:04.400 I've been rewarded financially by getting involved with some of 0:38:04.400 --> 0:38:07.400 these other wealthier men than getting involved with John. 0:38:07.760 --> 0:38:11.239 Yeah. Well, now let's get to another one of Evelyn's 0:38:11.239 --> 0:38:15.680 really big mistakes. Her big mistake was trusting John to 0:38:15.760 --> 0:38:19.040 keep his mouth shut about a family secret. So when 0:38:19.480 --> 0:38:22.000 Donald says, bug off, I don't want you with my 0:38:22.080 --> 0:38:26.680 daughter anyway, John says, your daughter told me about what 0:38:26.719 --> 0:38:30.120 you've been doing, that you've been stealing money, and paul 0:38:30.160 --> 0:38:32.880 I looked it up. The amount was probably in the 0:38:32.920 --> 0:38:36.440 one and a half to two million dollar range these days. 0:38:36.560 --> 0:38:39.759 That's a lot of money over a few years that 0:38:39.880 --> 0:38:42.640 he's been stealing. He says, I know all about it. 0:38:42.960 --> 0:38:46.240 Your daughter told me all about it, and basically said, 0:38:46.400 --> 0:38:49.279 I'll expose this secret if you keep being a jerk 0:38:49.360 --> 0:38:53.719 to me, And in response, Donald not surprisingly said I'm 0:38:53.719 --> 0:38:56.360 going to kill you. I'll kill you. So John goes 0:38:56.400 --> 0:39:00.479 to the police. Oh, and says this guy threatened me. Now, 0:39:01.080 --> 0:39:03.480 I don't know if he's he has gone to the 0:39:03.480 --> 0:39:05.440 police and said this is what happened, and it sort 0:39:05.480 --> 0:39:08.800 of exposed this. I don't know how how quickly. I 0:39:08.840 --> 0:39:11.880 don't know the timeframe, like if they said if he 0:39:12.000 --> 0:39:15.319 went to the police and exposed the whole scheme, or 0:39:15.360 --> 0:39:16.960 if he just said, my father in law said I'm 0:39:17.000 --> 0:39:19.120 going to kill you. I don't know which one. I 0:39:19.160 --> 0:39:23.080 know that Donald was not under arrest for stealing money 0:39:23.600 --> 0:39:26.719 at the time of this torso being discovered, so if 0:39:26.719 --> 0:39:29.279 they were investigating, they were at the beginning stages of it. 0:39:29.360 --> 0:39:31.799 I feel like he just said he threatened me. I 0:39:31.800 --> 0:39:34.560 don't think he exposed anything, but he reported it. 0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:39.240 Well obviously you've been holding back on me. Once again, 0:39:40.160 --> 0:39:44.040 you're welcome. And that was one of the you know, 0:39:44.120 --> 0:39:46.799 one of the early theories that I just kind of, 0:39:47.120 --> 0:39:50.400 you know, noodled on. Now at this moment in time, 0:39:51.000 --> 0:39:55.560 I think, you know, putting you know, myself in John's mind. 0:39:56.719 --> 0:40:02.200 You know, he is he's been benefit from Donald's left 0:40:02.239 --> 0:40:04.239 of this money, and it may be because of the 0:40:04.280 --> 0:40:07.520 pass through from Evelyn and who knows if John was 0:40:08.000 --> 0:40:11.240 getting any you know, hand me downs front directly from Donald, 0:40:11.680 --> 0:40:14.839 and so on one hand, you know, you could see 0:40:14.880 --> 0:40:19.200 where he recognizes that he has leverage against Donald, you know, 0:40:19.560 --> 0:40:23.200 stop treating me poorly, or I'm going to expose this. 0:40:23.440 --> 0:40:26.399 But on the other hand, if he exposes it, then 0:40:26.440 --> 0:40:29.120 he loses out of any of the financial benefits that 0:40:29.160 --> 0:40:32.200 he's been getting as a result of the marriage to Evelyn. 0:40:32.360 --> 0:40:35.799 But when Donald threatens him, I'm going to kill you, 0:40:35.800 --> 0:40:38.960 you know, now John is worried. So he goes to 0:40:39.040 --> 0:40:42.960 law enforcement with that perspective just to get Donald to 0:40:43.040 --> 0:40:47.640 back off of that threat but still maintain that desirable 0:40:48.000 --> 0:40:51.840 quality of life through the financial means that Evelyn can provide. 0:40:52.200 --> 0:40:55.000 So I can see where Donald would have have kind 0:40:55.000 --> 0:40:56.879 of walked that line a little bit. 0:40:57.320 --> 0:40:59.800 Yeah, as I said, I don't know what he exposed 0:40:59.800 --> 0:41:03.560 to Hamilton police, but Donald was not under arrest at 0:41:03.600 --> 0:41:06.680 the time. So let's go back to the Torso kind 0:41:06.680 --> 0:41:08.680 of back to the beginning. So we're back to mid 0:41:08.719 --> 0:41:12.240 March nineteen forty six. We know now that the Torso 0:41:12.640 --> 0:41:17.799 is John Dick, and they start wondering about alibis. They 0:41:17.840 --> 0:41:20.520 want to know where everybody was, so they start looking 0:41:20.600 --> 0:41:25.439 into Evelyn's whereabouts ahead of her husband's disappearance. They learned 0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:27.640 that the day that he was last seen alive, which 0:41:27.680 --> 0:41:31.760 was March sixth, that Evelyn had borrowed a nineteen thirty 0:41:31.760 --> 0:41:35.640 eight packard from the owner of a local auto garage 0:41:35.840 --> 0:41:39.440 kind of a rental car agency and rudimentary one. This 0:41:39.520 --> 0:41:42.120 was something that she did often, So she borrows this car. 0:41:42.560 --> 0:41:45.640 She returns at the next morning at eight am. So 0:41:45.880 --> 0:41:49.560 this is when we start getting into evidence. Whether or 0:41:49.640 --> 0:41:51.920 not you think this is important. I mean, you'll think 0:41:51.960 --> 0:41:54.480 this is important, but we really want to see if 0:41:54.480 --> 0:41:58.040 this absolutely ties Evelyn to this. They search the car, 0:41:58.320 --> 0:42:00.440 they find the car, They search the car. There are 0:42:00.520 --> 0:42:05.080 numerous blood stains which are determined to be Type OH, 0:42:05.120 --> 0:42:08.360 which is John's type. So of course they're doing blood typing. 0:42:08.360 --> 0:42:11.640 But nothing else is common or not common or. 0:42:11.640 --> 0:42:15.000 What is that? No, it's very common, Okay, so it's 0:42:15.000 --> 0:42:18.080 not helpful. Really. Yeah. Basically, Type A TYPEO are the 0:42:18.080 --> 0:42:22.000 two most common blood types by and then ultimately AB 0:42:22.160 --> 0:42:24.680 are rare. So if you get type A type OH, 0:42:25.320 --> 0:42:27.200 you know, because I used to do this ABO testing, 0:42:27.440 --> 0:42:31.360 it really does not limit the population that you can 0:42:31.440 --> 0:42:35.640 include or exclude. So the fact that it's consistent is 0:42:35.680 --> 0:42:39.960 important with John's blood type, but at this point you 0:42:40.080 --> 0:42:43.080 can't say with any level of certainty it is in 0:42:43.080 --> 0:42:44.360 fact John's blood. 0:42:44.719 --> 0:42:48.440 Okay, the blood is mostly concentrated on the front seat, 0:42:48.600 --> 0:42:51.920 but there are also stains on a necktie and a 0:42:52.080 --> 0:42:55.960 sweater that have been left behind that are John's. 0:42:56.320 --> 0:42:58.520 This is so sloppy. This is sloppy. 0:42:58.600 --> 0:43:02.240 I mean it really is. If she's the one responsible, 0:43:02.440 --> 0:43:05.480 it is. And it gets worse because she returns the 0:43:05.480 --> 0:43:10.240 packer with the front seat's slipcover missing, and a blanket 0:43:10.239 --> 0:43:11.960 had also been laid out on the seat and that's 0:43:12.040 --> 0:43:16.560 also gone. And Evelyn had basically said the blood on 0:43:16.680 --> 0:43:19.840 the seats were from her daughter, who had cut her face, 0:43:19.960 --> 0:43:22.200 so she obviously gets to see her daughter and was 0:43:22.280 --> 0:43:25.000 rushed to the hospital in the car. But this was 0:43:25.040 --> 0:43:27.920 of course not true. So I don't care if it's 0:43:27.920 --> 0:43:31.040 Evelyn or Donald or Alexandra the mother. Somebody does not 0:43:31.120 --> 0:43:33.840 know what they're doing here, because this is very sloppy. 0:43:33.880 --> 0:43:38.440 You're right, yeah, no, this is a very unsophisticated, unorganized 0:43:39.719 --> 0:43:43.200 on one part. You know, when you start evaluating offenders 0:43:43.200 --> 0:43:45.640 and their actions, you know you have to take into 0:43:45.680 --> 0:43:49.840 account that most offenders have never killed before, and so 0:43:50.040 --> 0:43:52.520 this is the first time. It's not like there's a 0:43:53.440 --> 0:43:56.200 you know, a school that you can go to and 0:43:56.520 --> 0:43:59.319 learn how to commit a homicide and get away with it. 0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:02.279 You know, you might take time to think about it, 0:44:03.120 --> 0:44:06.680 but the dynamics of what happens in the real world 0:44:06.719 --> 0:44:09.680 when you try to commit these crimes often is the 0:44:09.760 --> 0:44:13.640 undoing for the offender and gets these offenders caught. I'm 0:44:13.680 --> 0:44:16.640 going to assume this necktie and bloody shirt that we're 0:44:16.719 --> 0:44:22.600 in this packard probably matches items from John, you know, 0:44:22.920 --> 0:44:26.360 to leave those behind and turn the car back to 0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:30.759 the this I forget what you called it, but this. 0:44:30.800 --> 0:44:32.280 Auto autobody shop. 0:44:32.600 --> 0:44:36.640 Yeah, with people knowing that you're the one that borrowed 0:44:36.640 --> 0:44:39.200 that car to begin with. You know, it's just okay, 0:44:39.400 --> 0:44:43.200 there's a lack of forethought going on there in terms of, well, 0:44:43.200 --> 0:44:48.279 how can law enforcement backtrack utilizing the evidence as well 0:44:48.320 --> 0:44:53.320 as the investigative leads. So I can see where now, yes, 0:44:53.480 --> 0:44:57.560 Evelyn becomes a prime suspect in John's homicide as a 0:44:57.600 --> 0:45:01.279 result of this, Now she the soul person doing it 0:45:01.480 --> 0:45:04.120 or there are others. I think that's the big. 0:45:04.000 --> 0:45:07.160 Question that is the big question. So a couple of 0:45:07.160 --> 0:45:11.480 other key things that the neighbors were watching her in 0:45:11.680 --> 0:45:16.040 awe as that night, she is desperately trying to squeeze 0:45:16.239 --> 0:45:20.240 this very large car in their very small garage around 0:45:20.280 --> 0:45:23.160 five o'clock or five thirty, so you know, I mean, 0:45:23.200 --> 0:45:25.320 she's trying to obviously get the car in the garage 0:45:25.360 --> 0:45:27.439 so she can clean it. Sounds like she actually got 0:45:27.440 --> 0:45:31.160 it in. When investigators get a warrant, I presume, and 0:45:31.400 --> 0:45:35.120 they go into her house, they find blood stained women's 0:45:35.360 --> 0:45:39.400 rain boots, as well as that missing blanket covered in 0:45:39.440 --> 0:45:44.000 blood that the auto shop owns, and it's cleaned and folded. 0:45:44.440 --> 0:45:48.240 Now this is very damning, most damningly, I would say, 0:45:48.480 --> 0:45:52.799 bone and teeth fragments are found in coal ashes that 0:45:52.840 --> 0:45:56.360 have been spread outside the garage door just behind the house. 0:45:57.280 --> 0:46:03.960 Eventually they say that these are John's incinerated remains. And 0:46:04.000 --> 0:46:07.600 now this looks super bad for Evelyn and of course 0:46:07.640 --> 0:46:11.800 for John. And you're right, now this turns into Evelyn 0:46:11.840 --> 0:46:15.719 clearly is involved. We don't know to what extent, But 0:46:16.200 --> 0:46:18.840 the big question is whether or not the mother and 0:46:18.880 --> 0:46:22.040 the father, or boyfriends or lovers or businessmen or politicians 0:46:22.080 --> 0:46:24.360 are also involved with this. Did she need help? 0:46:24.840 --> 0:46:28.840 Well, she most certainly could have pulled this off by herself. 0:46:28.680 --> 0:46:31.800 Poorly, very poorly, poorly. 0:46:31.719 --> 0:46:34.480 Very poorly, for sure. No. But I think back to 0:46:34.600 --> 0:46:38.399 the injuries on John. You've got two bullet grayses on 0:46:38.440 --> 0:46:42.160 his torso, his head has been cut off. The bullet 0:46:42.200 --> 0:46:45.200 grass as the pathologist said, they weren't fatal, and they 0:46:45.480 --> 0:46:48.520 bullet grazes aren't. John likely was shot in the head 0:46:49.320 --> 0:46:54.520 and then he was decapitated. And with the teeth fragments 0:46:55.040 --> 0:46:58.680 in these ashes, it looks like in essence, you know, 0:46:58.880 --> 0:47:02.440 at least his head and potentially his arms and legs 0:47:03.160 --> 0:47:08.359 were essentially cremated. You know, in this this location, could 0:47:08.400 --> 0:47:12.040 Evelyn have shot John in the head. Absolutely, And now 0:47:12.080 --> 0:47:16.080 she's just having to manipulate his body, cremate the smaller 0:47:16.120 --> 0:47:18.960 body parts, get rid of the torso. Getting rid of 0:47:18.960 --> 0:47:21.480 the torso is not easy, you know. That's I don't 0:47:21.520 --> 0:47:23.560 know how big John is, but I'm just going to say, 0:47:23.600 --> 0:47:27.200 let's say he's an average size mail. You know, even 0:47:27.239 --> 0:47:29.480 with his arms and legs and head missing, you know 0:47:29.560 --> 0:47:32.520 that torso is going to be weighing one hundred and 0:47:32.560 --> 0:47:36.759 twenty one hundred and forty pounds, if not more. The authorities, 0:47:36.800 --> 0:47:39.680 the investigators say it look like his torso had been 0:47:40.120 --> 0:47:43.400 pushed out of a moving car. I think that's hard 0:47:43.520 --> 0:47:47.560 for any driver to do, you know, so that would 0:47:47.640 --> 0:47:52.640 possibly suggest minimally a second person present. Then I'm speculating 0:47:52.960 --> 0:47:55.320 on that at this point. But right now it's like, okay, 0:47:55.320 --> 0:47:58.280 so where are we going from here? Evelyn is suspect 0:47:58.360 --> 0:47:58.839 number one. 0:47:58.960 --> 0:48:02.640 Here's where we're going from Paul. The police want, of course, 0:48:02.880 --> 0:48:06.399 a really thorough search, so they want to find more 0:48:06.440 --> 0:48:09.320 signs of John in the house. They climb the stairs 0:48:10.000 --> 0:48:13.480 and this is John and Evelyn's house, and they locate 0:48:13.880 --> 0:48:16.960 a suitcase. They're hoping to find more of his body parts, 0:48:17.000 --> 0:48:18.960 like his head or something, you know, his teeth that 0:48:19.239 --> 0:48:21.800 are out there. Like they're just looking for more evidence. 0:48:22.400 --> 0:48:26.319 They find a suitcase. They open up the suitcase. When 0:48:26.360 --> 0:48:27.920 I read this, I thought they were going to say 0:48:27.960 --> 0:48:31.560 they found his legs. They did not. They found a 0:48:31.600 --> 0:48:35.800 body and it was not John's body. It's a totally 0:48:35.880 --> 0:48:38.799 different person. And I am not going to talk to 0:48:38.840 --> 0:48:41.000 you about this for another week or so, so don't 0:48:41.040 --> 0:48:44.680 ask any questions. But this woman has a person in 0:48:44.719 --> 0:48:47.560 a suitcase in the attic of the home she shared 0:48:47.600 --> 0:48:51.799 with the husband, who she clearly was involved in disposing of. 0:48:52.320 --> 0:48:54.800 Yeah, Evelyn is a dangerous woman. 0:48:55.200 --> 0:48:57.040 She seems to be, and we'll learn a lot more 0:48:57.080 --> 0:48:58.800 about that next week. 0:48:59.360 --> 0:49:02.760 All right, Well, you've got me on the edge once again. 0:49:04.719 --> 0:49:06.960 I like to keep you there. That's the point, to 0:49:07.080 --> 0:49:10.319 keep you on the edge. Okay, I'll see you next week, 0:49:10.360 --> 0:49:12.120 and I promise I'll have a conclusion for you. 0:49:12.440 --> 0:49:14.960 All right, looking forward to it again. Thanks Lockiate. 0:49:19.040 --> 0:49:22.360 This has been an exactly right production for our sources 0:49:22.360 --> 0:49:25.920 and show notes go to exactlyrightmedia dot com slash Buried 0:49:25.920 --> 0:49:29.480 Bones sources. Our senior producer is Alexis Emosi. 0:49:29.800 --> 0:49:34.040 Research by Maren mcclashan, Ali Elkin, and Kate Winkler Dawson. 0:49:34.320 --> 0:49:36.600 Our mixing engineer is Ben Tolliday. 0:49:36.880 --> 0:49:39.160 Our theme song is by Tom Bryfogel. 0:49:39.400 --> 0:49:41.440 Our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac. 0:49:41.680 --> 0:49:45.840 Executive produced by Karen Kilgarriff, Georgia hard Stark, and Daniel Kramer. 0:49:46.120 --> 0:49:49.440 You can follow Buried Bones on Instagram and Facebook at 0:49:49.719 --> 0:49:50.720 ary Bones Pod. 0:49:51.200 --> 0:49:53.760 Kate's most recent book, All That Is Wicked, a Gilded 0:49:53.760 --> 0:49:55.799 Age story of murder and the race to Decode the 0:49:55.800 --> 0:49:57.600 Criminal Mind is available now 0:49:57.920 --> 0:50:02.160 And Paul's best selling memoir Masked, My life solving America's 0:50:02.200 --> 0:50:04.239 Cold Cases is also available now.