Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson. I'm a journalist who's spent the
Speaker 1: last twenty five years writing about true crime.
Speaker 2: And I'm Paul Hols, a retired cold case investigator who's
Speaker 2: worked some of America's most complicated cases and solve them.
Speaker 1: Each week, I present Paul with one of history's most
Speaker 1: compelling true crimes.
Speaker 2: And I weigh in using modern forensic techniques to bring
Speaker 2: new insights to old mysteries.
Speaker 1: Together, using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime
Speaker 1: cases through a twenty first century lens.
Speaker 2: Some are solved and some are cold, very cold.
Speaker 1: This is buried bones.
Speaker 2: Hey, Kate, how are you doing?
Speaker 1: I'm doing really well. But more importantly, how is Coorra doing?
Speaker 1: Because we haven't had a Cora update in a really
Speaker 1: long time. What's going on with your dog?
Speaker 2: Actually? You know, Cora's doing really well. She of course
Speaker 2: is getting older, she's going to be turning twelve this Easter,
Speaker 2: and you know, slowing down quite a bit. But you know,
Speaker 2: she's actually had quite a bit of a quality of
Speaker 2: life improvement lately. You know, I had posted maybe four
Speaker 2: months ago on Instagram a picture of Cora down in
Speaker 2: my man cave, which is in the basement, and just indicated, hey,
Speaker 2: this is very unusual. She's really struggling to navigate stairs.
Speaker 2: You know, I thought maybe it was an eyesight problem.
Speaker 2: You know, I'd have to kind of guide her down
Speaker 2: and she'd be really tentative to come down the stairs.
Speaker 2: And it's about fifteen steps. It's not a short, short
Speaker 2: thing for her at all. Yeah, and then a couple
Speaker 2: of the people, I think about five different people talked
Speaker 2: about this, this medication that helps with arthritis pain and
Speaker 2: I hadn't even thought about that, and took her into
Speaker 2: the vet. She said Cora was a good candidate. You know,
Speaker 2: she has some muscle wasting in her legs just from age,
Speaker 2: but she got she's on these shots now and it's
Speaker 2: like a new dog in many ways. You know, she's
Speaker 2: able to get up and down the stairs. She's still
Speaker 2: a little tentative. I think there is some eyesight issues,
Speaker 2: but even when she goes out for her walks, you know,
Speaker 2: she's got a little more pep in her stuff, and
Speaker 2: that in part maybe because it's you know, we've predominantly
Speaker 2: been through the colder season out here in Colorado, and
Speaker 2: she loves the snow. She loves the cold. But you know,
Speaker 2: right now, things are doing good and so far, you know,
Speaker 2: she's still cancer free, so everything is going good on
Speaker 2: Cora front. So you know, for a ninety pounds yellow lab,
Speaker 2: yet she's not a small lab. You know, she's a
Speaker 2: big lab. And you know she's you know, up there
Speaker 2: for the size of dog that she is. But you
Speaker 2: know she's been well taken care of. And you know,
Speaker 2: the quality of life I think is as improving as
Speaker 2: a result of the you know, the social media suggestions
Speaker 2: that I got.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I end up getting great suggestions from listeners,
Speaker 1: some not so great. Most of the time, I think
Speaker 1: they're really helpful. Most of the time. They're really helpful
Speaker 1: when you have experts out there, and some many of
Speaker 1: our listeners are so smart, which is great. I love
Speaker 1: smart listeners and they have all of this expertise. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've had just lists of people say I'm in forensics,
Speaker 1: or I work with DNA analysis, or I had one
Speaker 1: person email me which I loved, who said, I'm an
Speaker 1: expert in like colonial weaponry. If you guys ever want
Speaker 1: to come out and shoot well, which I think is great, Oh,
Speaker 1: very cool. So you know, I really I love getting
Speaker 1: suggestions like that, and so especially something that's going to
Speaker 1: improve the life of someone we care about so much.
Speaker 1: Would you think that the bear encounter was the biggest adventure, trauma,
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it in Cora's life so
Speaker 1: far at age twelve, almost, you.
Speaker 2: Know, I would say obviously from our perspective. I mean,
Speaker 2: she had her side tore open, she got a bite
Speaker 2: on her tail, she got some sort of maybe a
Speaker 2: claw that went dug into her forehead and had half surgery,
Speaker 2: you know. Traumatic for my wife who was with her
Speaker 2: at the time, for sure, but Cora didn't seem to care.
Speaker 2: And she still tried to take off after a bear.
Speaker 2: And when bears come in through our yard, she's barking
Speaker 2: at him, you know. So that that said, don't think
Speaker 2: that she's going to be scared of bears. You know,
Speaker 2: she's still going to go after him. Yeah, which is
Speaker 2: just it's so weird. We have so many deer, bunny, rabbits, turkeys,
Speaker 2: you name it. Kora just ignores them. Yeah, but if
Speaker 2: it's a bear, you know, she turns in to almost
Speaker 2: a vicious dog.
Speaker 1: Just your look. Yeah, she's like you, she's after the
Speaker 1: big prey. That's what she's looking for.
Speaker 2: I think is the big prey.
Speaker 1: That's the whole point of this.
Speaker 2: That's kind of a way to put it, I guess.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, Well, I'm glad we had a coorra update,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure we'll get a fish update at some point.
Speaker 1: We don't have time right now, frankly, for a fish update, Paul,
Speaker 1: because you really geek out on your aquarium. I'm assuming
Speaker 1: everything is okay with the aquarium as of now.
Speaker 2: As of now, yeah, you know it's right here to
Speaker 2: my right, I can almost touch it, and yeah we can.
Speaker 2: We can talk fish some other time.
Speaker 1: Okay, we have a busy day. So this is going
Speaker 1: to be a two parter. You know, this is a
Speaker 1: story in Canada, set in Canada. Love Love, Love Canada.
Speaker 1: This is a story I think about a complicated family,
Speaker 1: complicated relationship. But it starts the way I'm always interested
Speaker 1: in these sorts of stories, starting, which is with a
Speaker 1: body part found near water. So that isn't that usually
Speaker 1: the beginning of a pretty decent true crime story, one
Speaker 1: that we want to really dig into.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I've had multiple cases that you know,
Speaker 2: parts of body have been on the shoreline, so it
Speaker 2: usually means something bad has happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, let's go ahead and set the scene.
Speaker 1: We are in nineteen forty six Ontario, Canada, and we're
Speaker 1: in the city of Hamilton, which is on the western
Speaker 1: end of Lake Ontario. So for sort of a sense
Speaker 1: of geography, because I don't know much about Canada, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: I mean I've been to Toronto, I've been to Vancouver,
Speaker 1: I've been to Montreal, and that's it for Canada. But
Speaker 1: I loved all three of those cities.
Speaker 2: What about you, Yeah, you know, I've been to Vancouver,
Speaker 2: and then I flew into Toronto and gave a presentation
Speaker 2: to some college students there, then drove to Ottawa, okay,
Speaker 2: you know, and ended up it was like a four
Speaker 2: hour drive, and so it was first time I've ever
Speaker 2: experienced sort of the Canadian countryside, you know. And I
Speaker 2: always enjoy driving and just looking around, so that was
Speaker 2: really cool. But don't have much experience at all up
Speaker 2: in Canada.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I didn't either, And I actually had to
Speaker 1: look up quite a few things, just procedural stuff that
Speaker 1: I didn't know about. You'll care about it in a
Speaker 1: little bit, okay, let's get back to Canada. So nineteen
Speaker 1: forty six, Ontario. We're in Hamilton, which is about forty
Speaker 1: miles southwest of Toronto fifty five miles northwest of Buffalo,
Speaker 1: New York. I always forget how close parts of New
Speaker 1: York and Canada are. In Hamilton, the population is at
Speaker 1: about one hundred and eighty thousand in the mid nineteen forties.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a pretty big placing.
Speaker 1: I have very little reference for Canada as far as
Speaker 1: the size of cities, but it did seem like a
Speaker 1: pretty good size for in the nineteen forties. So we've
Speaker 1: talked about this so many times. It's unreal. Kids finding
Speaker 1: terrible things because kids are kids and they like to
Speaker 1: get into stuff and mess around. So on October sixteenth,
Speaker 1: there's a group of kids that are hiking along a trail.
Speaker 1: This is near an area called Albion Falls, and they
Speaker 1: stumble upon a male torso. So this is probably my
Speaker 1: nativity with this, but it's limbless and headless. I would
Speaker 1: know this. I understood this part, but I guess I
Speaker 1: didn't also know that the definition of the torso would
Speaker 1: be the back, the abdomen, and the chest and the
Speaker 1: pelvis And the reason that this is even a thing
Speaker 1: is because the torso is dressed in a pair of
Speaker 1: shorts and an undershirt, which seemed really weird, And at
Speaker 1: first I thought shorts on a torso, But then you know,
Speaker 1: Maren said, well pelvis is included with that traumatizing scene
Speaker 1: for these kids.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, absolutely, you know this is a headless,
Speaker 2: limbless body, right, so in essence, you know, of course
Speaker 2: I want to hear how the dismemberment occurred, right, because
Speaker 2: oftentimes the body is bisected, you know, through the abdominal area,
Speaker 2: because all you know, the hardest part is just cutting
Speaker 2: through the spine. But here you've got somebody. Sounds like
Speaker 2: they're trying to remove the body parts that could lead
Speaker 2: to identification, the head, the hands. So that's interesting.
Speaker 1: They're leaving on shorts and an undershirt. I don't know
Speaker 1: why I found that weird and surprising, but I did.
Speaker 2: Well, well, I think the question is is did they
Speaker 2: actually leave those items of clothing on, or did they
Speaker 2: redress this torso maybe for you know, moving the body
Speaker 2: around for you know, I don't know if you want
Speaker 2: to say, if it's just to make it a little
Speaker 2: bit less bloody, for them. Do you have pictures?
Speaker 1: No, I don't know you've loved have pictures of the
Speaker 1: HEADLESSLM mis torso, do not. I have a picture of
Speaker 1: the area, though, which could be helpful. The police, of
Speaker 1: course respond, I'm imagining it's cold. It's March in Canada,
Speaker 1: so that's good news for us. But these are body
Speaker 1: parts that are found along or near a trail. So
Speaker 1: let me show you the scene, which is probably going
Speaker 1: to be the most helpful photo that I have, So
Speaker 1: hang on so you'll see the really helpful little black
Speaker 1: arrow pointed to where it's found. And the police essentially
Speaker 1: say they think that that the killer or somebody was
Speaker 1: driving along this road and just toss the torso out.
Speaker 1: It's not buried, it's not really hidden, it's just sort
Speaker 1: of dumped.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'm looking at a picture and this appears
Speaker 2: to be a picture where the photographer is capturing what
Speaker 2: appears to be a dirt road that has a relatively
Speaker 2: steep embankment going off of the far side of the
Speaker 2: road from where the photographer is standing, and you know,
Speaker 2: fairly significant number of trees and bushes with no leaves
Speaker 2: on them, so it's obviously now fall wintertime. You know,
Speaker 2: I think the determination of whether the torso was pushed
Speaker 2: out of a moving vehicle or had been pulled out
Speaker 2: is more you know how the torso was positioned, you know,
Speaker 2: down this embankment as well as you know this car
Speaker 2: is moving and the torso is just kind of pushed out,
Speaker 2: And that's not necessarily an easy thing if you're dealing
Speaker 2: with just a single offender who's also driving. But if
Speaker 2: that torso has momentum forward, then of course it's going
Speaker 2: to tumble some distance if the car has any speed,
Speaker 2: and so there would probably be a fair amount of
Speaker 2: abrasion showing this tumbling action. And that's where you know,
Speaker 2: photos could be helpful. But at this point in time,
Speaker 2: you know, this looks like a relatively straightforward body dump location.
Speaker 2: It's a location in which, once the torso has put
Speaker 2: down the embankment, if it falls far enough down this embankment,
Speaker 2: then people passing by probably would not pay any attention,
Speaker 2: not know that it's there.
Speaker 1: If they are trying to conceal the identity of this man,
Speaker 1: then why would they just not cut off the head
Speaker 1: and cut off the hands, Because fingerprinting would have been
Speaker 1: a thing in forty six. Why not cut off the
Speaker 1: hands and cut off the head and that's it. Why
Speaker 1: go to the trouble of this total dismemberment. Would you
Speaker 1: think at this point.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think there's a couple of reasons.
Speaker 2: You know, first, if the dismemberment is just to prevent
Speaker 2: identification or delay identification, I've got a body, an old
Speaker 2: cold case in which the head and the hand's been
Speaker 2: cut off, and then the body was weighed down in
Speaker 2: the Sacramento River delta, but it ended up bobbing. So
Speaker 2: now we had a headless torso, if you will, bobbing
Speaker 2: in the waves and was easily found. When you think
Speaker 2: about identification, of course, people are thinking about the facial features,
Speaker 2: you know, the fingerprints from the hands. Now does this
Speaker 2: torso have any identifying tattoos on the upper arms, on
Speaker 2: the legs, and is there a reason to remove those
Speaker 2: limbs to prevent the tattoos from being seen or other
Speaker 2: characteristics that might help somebody identify the body. Oftentimes, you know,
Speaker 2: the limbs are removed in order to have a smaller
Speaker 2: package to move around, you know. So there's also that
Speaker 2: component of dismemberment. But that's where you start to see
Speaker 2: as I mentioned earlier, now the torso itself is bisected
Speaker 2: in the abdominal area, so now you have smaller packages
Speaker 2: to be able to package up and distribute, you know,
Speaker 2: across the countryside. If that's what your plans are.
Speaker 1: Do you remember the story of the woman who either
Speaker 1: murdered or participated in the murder of a man and
Speaker 1: carried his torso wrapped in I think what they were
Speaker 1: describing as like a hat strap, where you would, you know,
Speaker 1: have a hat box and put straps around. And she
Speaker 1: had this torso wrapped up in this package and carried
Speaker 1: it on a train, and people thought it was so odd.
Speaker 1: And that was the idea of exactly what she said,
Speaker 1: which is it was easy to transport. And then she
Speaker 1: did kind of this. She dumped it by our riverbank,
Speaker 1: I think, is what it was in that case, So
Speaker 1: that makes sense. I will say, there are some odd
Speaker 1: identifying things about this torso. So if they were aiming
Speaker 1: to not be able to have corroborating details between who
Speaker 1: we find out the victim is versus this torso, I
Speaker 1: don't think they did a great job. But let me
Speaker 1: tell you a couple of things first. Okay, so they
Speaker 1: don't find any other body parts. Okay, so it's just
Speaker 1: this torso. And they think the torso has been here
Speaker 1: for about ten days. And as I said, they thought
Speaker 1: that it was tossed out of a moving car before
Speaker 1: winding up in this resting spot. Now there's a little
Speaker 1: list of interesting things. Okay. There are two superficial gunshot
Speaker 1: wounds on the chest. No bullets, so skimming or whatever
Speaker 1: you want to call it. They don't know what the
Speaker 1: size are, but the medical examiner said this did not
Speaker 1: kill him. They're superficial wounds. But somebody was shooting at
Speaker 1: the sky, so no casing, no bullets. There are two
Speaker 1: features that they are going to find helpful and I
Speaker 1: might need your help on both. One is assist on
Speaker 1: the torso's posterior. That's like tushi, right. I know that's
Speaker 1: not the technical term, but if they're saying posterior, it's
Speaker 1: the backside.
Speaker 2: I mean it could be the buttocks, it could be
Speaker 2: the back Okay. But yeah, obviously there's some sort of mass,
Speaker 2: you know, cysts like mass on the back of this torso.
Speaker 1: Also something I really know nothing about, which is a
Speaker 1: undescended testicle. What does that mean? You see, you're smiling.
Speaker 1: Is this really something you can use in help anything
Speaker 1: helpful in an investigation?
Speaker 2: Potentially, because when males are developing, the testes of course
Speaker 2: developed internally, and then as this male develops, the testes
Speaker 2: descend down into the scrotal sack, and you can have
Speaker 2: boys born with undeescended testicles or one undeescended testicle as
Speaker 2: it sounds like in this case. So it's a physical
Speaker 2: feature that could potentially be useful to help identify this body.
Speaker 2: If a loved one comes forward, a spouse, a family
Speaker 2: member and says, hey, you know our son, my husband,
Speaker 2: whatever is missing. What are some physical characteristics and outside
Speaker 2: of size, highweight or whatever, it's like, well, also the
Speaker 2: undeescended testes, you know, that could be something that they go, okay, well,
Speaker 2: this is like this torso's matching up with the description
Speaker 2: of this missing person, and it may be something that
Speaker 2: could be used, you know, in nineteen forty six put
Speaker 2: in the newspapers. It's a little bit personal, but you know,
Speaker 2: if you're trying to figure out who this guy is,
Speaker 2: that's a feature.
Speaker 1: They finally put it together who the torso is, and
Speaker 1: he is a thirty nine year old man. His name
Speaker 1: is John Dick and he came from Russia to Canada
Speaker 1: about twenty years earlier, in the nineteen twenties, and he
Speaker 1: is missing. He's been declared missing for around two weeks
Speaker 1: ten days, which is how long the medical examiner thought
Speaker 1: the torso had been there. He's a bus and streetcar
Speaker 1: driver for the Hamilton Street Railway, which is the city's
Speaker 1: transport agency. He was last seen March sixth, nineteen forty six,
Speaker 1: so ten days earlier, but we don't really know where.
Speaker 1: The reports have varied. Some say that he was as
Speaker 1: cousin's house, where he was living at the time, even
Speaker 1: though he's married. Others say that he was eating a
Speaker 1: meal at the Windsor Hotel in Hamilton. But really the
Speaker 1: big deal is that he is married, and the police
Speaker 1: want to talk to his wife, whose name is Evelyn,
Speaker 1: as soon as possible. He has just been newly married
Speaker 1: six months earlier. So they don't know very much about
Speaker 1: him except that he's a laborer and you know, see
Speaker 1: no record, seems to be a good citizen and now
Speaker 1: he is this torso And they don't have any other
Speaker 1: body parts so far, and they don't have a conclusive
Speaker 1: cause of death.
Speaker 2: How old did you say?
Speaker 1: He was thirty nine? So what did you think about
Speaker 1: that with the dicended testicle?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, who reported him missing?
Speaker 1: Sounds like his wife, So.
Speaker 2: I would assume that she's aware that, you know, this
Speaker 2: is one of his characteristics. And when they find this torso,
Speaker 2: you know she comes in and reports John missing, you know,
Speaker 2: this would be something where they'd call her up and say, hey,
Speaker 2: can you give us some more information about, you know,
Speaker 2: his physical state.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if she.
Speaker 2: Mentioned this and they're going, okay, we might be on
Speaker 2: the right track here that this could be John. But
Speaker 2: in terms of you know, that physical trait, you know,
Speaker 2: I would never rely upon something like that as the
Speaker 2: sole means of identification. It's just a consistent feature. And
Speaker 2: so now more needs to be done to identify this torso.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, it sounds like they're fairly confident. I guess
Speaker 1: some of the clothing from the torso matches his, and
Speaker 1: he's been missing, and Evelyn is completely freaking out his
Speaker 1: wife and they've only been married about six months. I
Speaker 1: will tell you that they obviously think this is murder,
Speaker 1: and they think Evelyn had something to do with it,
Speaker 1: because there's no one right now in his inner circle
Speaker 1: that they can identify that would be problematic. Ethlen Dick
Speaker 1: is problematic as a suspect and as a witness. And
Speaker 1: I will also say that this is going to be
Speaker 1: a story involves slutshaming, which I hate that phrase, but
Speaker 1: there's no other way to describe it in this story.
Speaker 1: And so I think that our edict is to figure
Speaker 1: out the actual facts in this case, because it is
Speaker 1: still a mystery here versus you know, what is all
Speaker 1: the smoke and mirrors and the circumstantial stuff that happens.
Speaker 1: They are very quickly zeroing in on Evelyn because she
Speaker 1: has quite a reputation, and we can kind of talk
Speaker 1: about your experience maybe with that in more modern cases too.
Speaker 2: You mentioned that John was living with his cousin at
Speaker 2: the time he goes missing, and not with Evelyn. M hm.
Speaker 2: So it sounds like he's estranged in the marriage. Even
Speaker 2: though they I mean literally been married only six months.
Speaker 1: They've been having a really hard time almost immediately, they
Speaker 1: had a hard time, okay, And I can give you
Speaker 1: some background on her and on them, and you know,
Speaker 1: normally I would sort of take you through different suspects
Speaker 1: and different potentials there aren't any other potentials here. It's
Speaker 1: whether or not. This is a strong case, I think
Speaker 1: with Evelyn, and there are a lot of people involved.
Speaker 1: So he's living with a cousin right now because they
Speaker 1: are having almost immediate problems in their marriage.
Speaker 2: Absolutely okay. So they obviously after figuring out this torso
Speaker 2: is John, then they interview Evelyn.
Speaker 1: Yep, they do. She is upset and frantic and confused
Speaker 1: about what happened, and the police start digging around and
Speaker 1: trying to figure out who she is. Because it doesn't
Speaker 1: take long to figure out that Evelyn has had quite
Speaker 1: a reputation. She's sort of unframed as a social light
Speaker 1: in the nineteen forties in a socialite Paul, because she
Speaker 1: has dated really powerful people in this area, in this
Speaker 1: part of candidate, powerful men, so that that immediately puts
Speaker 1: her on their on the police's radar because they start
Speaker 1: thinking immediately, well, who else could be responsible? She wants
Speaker 1: to knock this guy off for whatever reason. And I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's fair yet, We'll have to see.
Speaker 2: No. And when you say powerful men, I'm assuming politically
Speaker 2: and or financially powerful.
Speaker 1: Yep, business politics, you name it. Okay, So the facts
Speaker 1: are right now John is dead fifteen years older, so
Speaker 1: her husband's fifteen years older and he is dead. She
Speaker 1: is upset. She claims to know nothing about this, but
Speaker 1: they are now really quickly on unraveling who Evelyn Dick is,
Speaker 1: and the police don't like it in Canada, which is
Speaker 1: fairly conservative.
Speaker 2: Okay, So Evelyn is roughly twenty four years old, She's
Speaker 2: been married to John for six months. She's had dating
Speaker 2: relationships with these powerful men. Yep. Were these relationships all
Speaker 2: before the marriage or were there some relationships occurring during
Speaker 2: the marriage?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes to both of those. Yes, And I mean
Speaker 1: throughout from the first week when they got married all
Speaker 1: the way back through she's had relationships. So even though
Speaker 1: Evelyn is on their radar, there's a long list of
Speaker 1: suspects as far as this goes, you know, who could
Speaker 1: have targeted him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and at this point, pretty much you're putting all
Speaker 2: the chips in on Evelyn and this pool of men
Speaker 2: that have been in her life for either a while
Speaker 2: or recently.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: Is there anything about, you know, the victimology of John
Speaker 2: that is separate from this that we need to worry about,
Speaker 2: you know, in terms of you know, what I'm trying
Speaker 2: to figure out is the reason John is dead because
Speaker 2: of something he got involved with versus the marriage to
Speaker 2: Evelyn and whatever is going on there.
Speaker 1: You are a brilliant man, Pouls, because yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: there's all sorts of intersections of him getting involved in
Speaker 1: some things he shouldn't be, but that also involved Evelyn.
Speaker 1: So let me, I'm so cryptic everything I've felt the
Speaker 1: last five minutes.
Speaker 2: You always are.
Speaker 1: I think the last five minutes have been the most
Speaker 1: cryptic I've ever been with you. Let me tell you
Speaker 1: about Evelyn because all of this is important. Her family
Speaker 1: details are important. So she's twenty five and he is
Speaker 1: thirty nine. She is the only child of two immigrants.
Speaker 1: So remember John came from Russia. Her parents, Donald and
Speaker 1: Alexandra come from Scotland, and when she was a baby,
Speaker 1: they moved from Beamsville, Ontario, to Hamilton and Donald also
Speaker 1: drove street cars. The dad, her dad, drove street cars
Speaker 1: for the Hamilton Street Railway. And it sounds like that's
Speaker 1: how John and Evelyn met was because Donald the dad
Speaker 1: and John worked at the same place. Does that make
Speaker 1: sense so far?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's like Donald, Evelyn's father, is the one
Speaker 2: that potentially introduced John and Evelyn.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so, according to what Marin found in the
Speaker 1: source material, Evelyn had a tough childhood. It sounds like
Speaker 1: Donald was very temperamental and alcoholic. It sounds like she
Speaker 1: was physically abused by both of her parents, and at
Speaker 1: times Donald and Alexandra, the mother, would live apart, and
Speaker 1: Evelyn often stayed with her mom and Donald, which this
Speaker 1: will become important later on. Was really bad with money,
Speaker 1: and during her childhood the family lived away beyond their means.
Speaker 1: And Donald got this extra income by stealing from his employer.
Speaker 1: So that's the same employer that John works for. Right,
Speaker 1: this is the railway place. The Waterloo Chronicle, which is
Speaker 1: a newspaper, reported that Donald had ripped off the railway
Speaker 1: for hundreds of thousands of dollars in nineteen forty six.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of money by pilfering fair box money
Speaker 1: and tickets over several years. So this is not a
Speaker 1: grab money from the till and run. This is somebody
Speaker 1: who's stealing money for years and years and years. So
Speaker 1: you can imagine that probably John knew about that, and
Speaker 1: that's why I'm saying the story is a little more
Speaker 1: complicated than you know, just a bad marriage. Now you've
Speaker 1: got a father in law who you know has been
Speaker 1: doing some pretty bad things, and it would be very
Speaker 1: difficult to think that John would not know about it.
Speaker 1: We don't know yet.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm wondering if John and Evelyn benefited from Donald's
Speaker 2: theft of the railways.
Speaker 1: Maybe so, you know, it's interesting that she stayed close
Speaker 1: with her dad despite their history. But she's apparently close
Speaker 1: to both of her parents. She lived with them. I
Speaker 1: guess they got back together Alexandra and Donald into her twenties,
Speaker 1: and you know, Evelyn grew into being an attractive woman,
Speaker 1: sometimes described as a socialite. She is also this is
Speaker 1: where we get sexist, boy. Sometimes she's described as an
Speaker 1: escort or a sex worker, and it's mostly because Paul,
Speaker 1: I mean nineteen forty six. It's mostly because she does
Speaker 1: have money and not the job that should be paying
Speaker 1: her that money. I suspect that it is her benefiting
Speaker 1: from her dad. There's zero evidence that she was ever
Speaker 1: a sex worker or an escort, but you know, that
Speaker 1: is one thing is that you know, she is described
Speaker 1: as this woman who lives beyond her means, and nobody
Speaker 1: knows where the money is coming from.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, if Dad's stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars
Speaker 2: in nineteen forty six money, you know, that's a fair
Speaker 2: amount of health that he could distribute to Evelyn. It
Speaker 2: does come down to how does this factor into John's
Speaker 2: homicide though, you know that's going to be the key.
Speaker 2: If did John blackmail Donald yet know something to that effect.
Speaker 2: He's estrange from Evelyn at the time of his homicide,
Speaker 2: so he's basically saying, I still need money coming from you, Donald,
Speaker 2: or I'm going to tell you know, there could potentially
Speaker 2: be a motive there. I'll just note that at this
Speaker 2: point in time.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we'll move along here. Evelyn, as she got older, attracted,
Speaker 1: as I've said before, many different kinds of men, and
Speaker 1: she dated a lot of rich and prominent local men.
Speaker 1: She didn't marry any of them. The Globe and Mail,
Speaker 1: which is another newspaper, reported that at the time she
Speaker 1: claimed to have had sexual relations with most of the
Speaker 1: movers and shakers in Hamilton. This is not against the law.
Speaker 1: She can sleep with whoever she wants. And she also
Speaker 1: had a string of out of wedlock pregnancies in her
Speaker 1: early twenties. Now you can see in nineteen forty six Canada,
Speaker 1: why when the police start learning about all of this stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is I know it's one hundred and
Speaker 1: eighty thousand people, but still it wouldn't have taken long
Speaker 1: to figure out her reputation. They zero in on her.
Speaker 1: Now that I've heard about Donald and what he is doing.
Speaker 1: Now I'm less concerned about Evelyn, a little bit more
Speaker 1: concerned about Donald. But you know there are intertwined.
Speaker 2: What do we know so far with this type of
Speaker 2: victimology with John? With what you have said so far?
Speaker 2: You know that the big question is is who benefits
Speaker 2: from John being killed? And what is that benefit? You know,
Speaker 2: Evelyn sounds like she has no problem attracting men, and
Speaker 2: she can attract men that have far more assets, if
Speaker 2: you will, than what John can provide. You know, why
Speaker 2: does Evelyn ultimately marry John? You know what kind of
Speaker 2: arrangement was there? Did they truly fall in love? Is
Speaker 2: there some other reason for that man marriage? And Evelyn
Speaker 2: didn't want that marriage, So that's I think a factor.
Speaker 2: And then is there a spurned lover of Evelyn? Which
Speaker 2: sounds like there very possibly could be, and that spurned
Speaker 2: lover decided to take John out, and then of course
Speaker 2: all the financial aspects that sounds like this family is
Speaker 2: involved with on a criminal level.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure John Dick knew what he was getting
Speaker 1: into when he married Evelyn and into the family, which
Speaker 1: sounds volatile to say the least. Let me tell you
Speaker 1: a little bit about her background with kids, which is
Speaker 1: also important. So in nineteen forty two, she was twenty
Speaker 1: one and she gave birth to a daughter named Heather.
Speaker 1: Less than a year later, she gave birth to a
Speaker 1: stillborn little girl. About a year and a half later,
Speaker 1: she had another child, whom she named Peter, a little boy.
Speaker 1: He was healthy. We don't know anything about these fathers.
Speaker 1: She gave Peter up for adoption to an organization called
Speaker 1: the Children's Aid Society when he was about ten days old.
Speaker 1: So all of this is to say, you know, I
Speaker 1: had mentioned that before this this would be something that
Speaker 1: her parents or would tell the police, or you know,
Speaker 1: people would say, this is part of her reputation. She's
Speaker 1: given birth, she hasn't been married. John's her first marriage.
Speaker 1: So this is all stuff that builds into I think
Speaker 1: what'll eventually be the slutshaming part. Of this, it's all
Speaker 1: sort of coming together as this is a family, well
Speaker 1: at least with Evelyn, this is a family that's troubled.
Speaker 1: And now you know, John is dead. None of the
Speaker 1: men involved seem right now to be coming into play,
Speaker 1: any of the fathers of these kids. But it sounds
Speaker 1: like they're all different, you know, fathers. Let's see. Now,
Speaker 1: let's get to when she marries John. It's presumably through
Speaker 1: her father's work, as I said, with the transportation, with
Speaker 1: the railway agency. They meet in summer of nineteen forty five.
Speaker 1: He is killed in early March of nineteen forty six.
Speaker 1: Who talk about whirlwind. So they meet in the summer
Speaker 1: of forty five. First lie. She says to John that
Speaker 1: she was widowed after her husband was killed at war,
Speaker 1: and that was a lie. So first lie. But so far,
Speaker 1: that's all I've been able to find on Evelyn. They
Speaker 1: were engaged within weeks of meeting, and then married just
Speaker 1: a couple of months after that in October, and then
Speaker 1: he's dead in March. So this was very very quick.
Speaker 1: He does not have any money, he really doesn't, and
Speaker 1: it is you're right, a big question mark about why
Speaker 1: this guy when she probably could have married somebody who
Speaker 1: was middle class versus maybe more working class. And so
Speaker 1: one of the things I think the speculation is that
Speaker 1: maybe John sold himself as having more money than he
Speaker 1: did because this was so WorldWind I know, Donald was
Speaker 1: unhappy about this. Her dad did not want this marriage
Speaker 1: to happen, and that's why I'm saying it was unlikely
Speaker 1: that he was the one who introduced the two of them.
Speaker 1: He was very unhappy that they got married. I'm assuming
Speaker 1: that he wanted her to marry one of these rich
Speaker 1: guys that she was dating.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Donald's perspective is John, you know, he's got
Speaker 2: eyes and ears around the job, you know. And maybe
Speaker 2: Donald is trying to operate with this financial theft and
Speaker 2: doesn't need a family member paying attention to him. So
Speaker 2: there's I can see where Donald is not liking this
Speaker 2: relationship just from that perspective, and whether or not Donald
Speaker 2: was wanting his daughter to actually, you know, marry wealthy
Speaker 2: or you know, marry well, you know, that's that could
Speaker 2: be a factor. But Evelyn ultimately is one that has
Speaker 2: to be making the decision to marry John, and so
Speaker 2: I wonder considering who else she has been in relationships
Speaker 2: with It still comes down to why John. And maybe
Speaker 2: she saw John as a bit of a patsy, somebody
Speaker 2: that she could manipulate for whatever reason, and decided to
Speaker 2: take advantage of that. And whether or not that occurred,
Speaker 2: who knows, But that's something I'm curious about. That relationship
Speaker 2: seems odd considering everything surrounding Evelyn during you know, the
Speaker 2: years leading up to the marriage.
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about odd. Odd is that she made
Speaker 1: the down payment on their house. She's the only one
Speaker 1: on the deed to this house. That could not have
Speaker 1: made John feel very good. Or maybe he thought, kaching,
Speaker 1: I found a woman who has more money than I
Speaker 1: do at dad's money. Yeah, you know, I don't know
Speaker 1: what he was thinking, but that was a pretty unusual arrangement.
Speaker 1: But she is the only one on the deed, which,
Speaker 1: because we're talking about a true crime case, is important.
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, it sounds from Evelyn's perspective. You know, any
Speaker 2: time you have let's say this, these deeds with property,
Speaker 2: you know, typically you hold on to that property for
Speaker 2: a period of time, and if it's a married couple,
Speaker 2: you usually both people are on that deed. The fact
Speaker 2: that in nineteen forty six, a woman is the sole
Speaker 2: owner of that property even though she's married. That just
Speaker 2: speaks that from whatever perspective she had, there was a
Speaker 2: lack of permanence with the marriage to John, and she
Speaker 2: was ensuring that, you know, this property would be hers
Speaker 2: after the marriage. You know, of course, different states have
Speaker 2: different community property aspects, you know, in divorce scenarios. But
Speaker 2: you know, right now this we're talking Canada, right, So
Speaker 2: I don't even know how that would work up there.
Speaker 1: She must have figured out his money situation before they
Speaker 1: got married. I mean, I can't even imagine. Maybe she
Speaker 1: really loved him. I don't know. Obviously, was smart of
Speaker 1: her putting the money down and making payments I presume
Speaker 1: from her dad. She's not working. We don't know where
Speaker 1: she's getting the money from. I'm not buying sex worker
Speaker 1: stuff just yet. So now let's talk about some big
Speaker 1: red flags. Their marriage immediately fell apart, so she would
Speaker 1: later say that within days of her wedding she was
Speaker 1: I mean, to Evelyn's credit, she's very open about this stuff.
Speaker 1: Within days of their wedding, she had already cheated on
Speaker 1: him with this guy who will be important later on.
Speaker 1: He's twenty seven years old and his name is Bill Bohazik,
Speaker 1: so closer to her age, but still she reportedly she
Speaker 1: admits to sleeping with more men in the following weeks
Speaker 1: of their marriage, and after just three months, the couple
Speaker 1: separated and John moved out because it was her house
Speaker 1: and he moves in with his cousin. And despite the separation,
Speaker 1: he really wants her back. He loves her. He doesn't
Speaker 1: want to get a divorce. He calls Evelyn's dad, Donald
Speaker 1: and says, please get her to come back to me.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm good for her. But Donald basically says,
Speaker 1: go kick Rocks. I have zero interesting you being my
Speaker 1: son in law anymore. You're not good enough for her anyway,
Speaker 1: and that's it. John is getting nowhere in getting Evelyn back.
Speaker 1: So she has the house, you know, because it's in
Speaker 1: her name, and he is out in the cold on
Speaker 1: his cousin's couch.
Speaker 2: It sounds like, well, it just it just speaks to
Speaker 2: you know, Evelyn is not changing her lifestyle even though
Speaker 2: she's entering into a marriage with John. I mean, considering
Speaker 2: she's with Bill, you know, a couple of days after
Speaker 2: the marriage, which would generally be you know, at least
Speaker 2: in this day and age during the honeymoon period, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and so this really calls into question in my mind
Speaker 2: as to well, why did Evelyn even bother marrying John?
Speaker 2: How does it benefit Evelyn to be married to this man?
Speaker 2: And so I start questioning Evelyn's motives for this marriage,
Speaker 2: you know, and part of maybe this spousal relationship the
Speaker 2: legal aspect of being a spouse. And again we're talking Canada,
Speaker 2: so I have no idea, but I'm looking at it
Speaker 2: from a perspective, well what kicks in that benefits Evelyn
Speaker 2: when this marriage goes away and John is killed? And
Speaker 2: you know, number one thing that comes into mind is, well,
Speaker 2: did she take out a life insurance policy on him?
Speaker 1: There's no evidence of that, no evidence of that kind
Speaker 1: of financial gain. We don't see that. Okay, that being said, Paul,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you work for something like a
Speaker 1: railway and not have some kind of There must have
Speaker 1: been some kind of financial benefit for her.
Speaker 2: I don't know what, but potentially, yeah, because you could
Speaker 2: see where you know, John is thirty nine. Do we
Speaker 2: know how long he was working for the railway? This
Speaker 2: HSR was it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean I think if this was a long
Speaker 1: term thing, this was not an immediate I think this
Speaker 1: has been a long time.
Speaker 2: So yes, he potentially has some some sort of long
Speaker 2: term benefits that would be passed to his surviving spouse,
Speaker 2: you know, And so there could be some sort of
Speaker 2: gain on Evelyn's part. But then she could pretend, actually,
Speaker 2: I've been rewarded financially by getting involved with some of
Speaker 2: these other wealthier men than getting involved with John.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, now let's get to another one of Evelyn's
Speaker 1: really big mistakes. Her big mistake was trusting John to
Speaker 1: keep his mouth shut about a family secret. So when
Speaker 1: Donald says, bug off, I don't want you with my
Speaker 1: daughter anyway, John says, your daughter told me about what
Speaker 1: you've been doing, that you've been stealing money, and paul
Speaker 1: I looked it up. The amount was probably in the
Speaker 1: one and a half to two million dollar range these days.
Speaker 1: That's a lot of money over a few years that
Speaker 1: he's been stealing. He says, I know all about it.
Speaker 1: Your daughter told me all about it, and basically said,
Speaker 1: I'll expose this secret if you keep being a jerk
Speaker 1: to me, And in response, Donald not surprisingly said I'm
Speaker 1: going to kill you. I'll kill you. So John goes
Speaker 1: to the police. Oh, and says this guy threatened me. Now,
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's he has gone to the
Speaker 1: police and said this is what happened, and it sort
Speaker 1: of exposed this. I don't know how how quickly. I
Speaker 1: don't know the timeframe, like if they said if he
Speaker 1: went to the police and exposed the whole scheme, or
Speaker 1: if he just said, my father in law said I'm
Speaker 1: going to kill you. I don't know which one. I
Speaker 1: know that Donald was not under arrest for stealing money
Speaker 1: at the time of this torso being discovered, so if
Speaker 1: they were investigating, they were at the beginning stages of it.
Speaker 1: I feel like he just said he threatened me. I
Speaker 1: don't think he exposed anything, but he reported it.
Speaker 2: Well obviously you've been holding back on me. Once again,
Speaker 2: you're welcome. And that was one of the you know,
Speaker 2: one of the early theories that I just kind of,
Speaker 2: you know, noodled on. Now at this moment in time,
Speaker 2: I think, you know, putting you know, myself in John's mind.
Speaker 2: You know, he is he's been benefit from Donald's left
Speaker 2: of this money, and it may be because of the
Speaker 2: pass through from Evelyn and who knows if John was
Speaker 2: getting any you know, hand me downs front directly from Donald,
Speaker 2: and so on one hand, you know, you could see
Speaker 2: where he recognizes that he has leverage against Donald, you know,
Speaker 2: stop treating me poorly, or I'm going to expose this.
Speaker 2: But on the other hand, if he exposes it, then
Speaker 2: he loses out of any of the financial benefits that
Speaker 2: he's been getting as a result of the marriage to Evelyn.
Speaker 2: But when Donald threatens him, I'm going to kill you,
Speaker 2: you know, now John is worried. So he goes to
Speaker 2: law enforcement with that perspective just to get Donald to
Speaker 2: back off of that threat but still maintain that desirable
Speaker 2: quality of life through the financial means that Evelyn can provide.
Speaker 2: So I can see where Donald would have have kind
Speaker 2: of walked that line a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, as I said, I don't know what he exposed
Speaker 1: to Hamilton police, but Donald was not under arrest at
Speaker 1: the time. So let's go back to the Torso kind
Speaker 1: of back to the beginning. So we're back to mid
Speaker 1: March nineteen forty six. We know now that the Torso
Speaker 1: is John Dick, and they start wondering about alibis. They
Speaker 1: want to know where everybody was, so they start looking
Speaker 1: into Evelyn's whereabouts ahead of her husband's disappearance. They learned
Speaker 1: that the day that he was last seen alive, which
Speaker 1: was March sixth, that Evelyn had borrowed a nineteen thirty
Speaker 1: eight packard from the owner of a local auto garage
Speaker 1: kind of a rental car agency and rudimentary one. This
Speaker 1: was something that she did often, So she borrows this car.
Speaker 1: She returns at the next morning at eight am. So
Speaker 1: this is when we start getting into evidence. Whether or
Speaker 1: not you think this is important. I mean, you'll think
Speaker 1: this is important, but we really want to see if
Speaker 1: this absolutely ties Evelyn to this. They search the car,
Speaker 1: they find the car, They search the car. There are
Speaker 1: numerous blood stains which are determined to be Type OH,
Speaker 1: which is John's type. So of course they're doing blood typing.
Speaker 1: But nothing else is common or not common or.
Speaker 2: What is that? No, it's very common, Okay, so it's
Speaker 2: not helpful. Really. Yeah. Basically, Type A TYPEO are the
Speaker 2: two most common blood types by and then ultimately AB
Speaker 2: are rare. So if you get type A type OH,
Speaker 2: you know, because I used to do this ABO testing,
Speaker 2: it really does not limit the population that you can
Speaker 2: include or exclude. So the fact that it's consistent is
Speaker 2: important with John's blood type, but at this point you
Speaker 2: can't say with any level of certainty it is in
Speaker 2: fact John's blood.
Speaker 1: Okay, the blood is mostly concentrated on the front seat,
Speaker 1: but there are also stains on a necktie and a
Speaker 1: sweater that have been left behind that are John's.
Speaker 2: This is so sloppy. This is sloppy.
Speaker 1: I mean it really is. If she's the one responsible,
Speaker 1: it is. And it gets worse because she returns the
Speaker 1: packer with the front seat's slipcover missing, and a blanket
Speaker 1: had also been laid out on the seat and that's
Speaker 1: also gone. And Evelyn had basically said the blood on
Speaker 1: the seats were from her daughter, who had cut her face,
Speaker 1: so she obviously gets to see her daughter and was
Speaker 1: rushed to the hospital in the car. But this was
Speaker 1: of course not true. So I don't care if it's
Speaker 1: Evelyn or Donald or Alexandra the mother. Somebody does not
Speaker 1: know what they're doing here, because this is very sloppy.
Speaker 2: You're right, yeah, no, this is a very unsophisticated, unorganized
Speaker 2: on one part. You know, when you start evaluating offenders
Speaker 2: and their actions, you know you have to take into
Speaker 2: account that most offenders have never killed before, and so
Speaker 2: this is the first time. It's not like there's a
Speaker 2: you know, a school that you can go to and
Speaker 2: learn how to commit a homicide and get away with it.
Speaker 2: You know, you might take time to think about it,
Speaker 2: but the dynamics of what happens in the real world
Speaker 2: when you try to commit these crimes often is the
Speaker 2: undoing for the offender and gets these offenders caught. I'm
Speaker 2: going to assume this necktie and bloody shirt that we're
Speaker 2: in this packard probably matches items from John, you know,
Speaker 2: to leave those behind and turn the car back to
Speaker 2: the this I forget what you called it, but this.
Speaker 1: Auto autobody shop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, with people knowing that you're the one that borrowed
Speaker 2: that car to begin with. You know, it's just okay,
Speaker 2: there's a lack of forethought going on there in terms of, well,
Speaker 2: how can law enforcement backtrack utilizing the evidence as well
Speaker 2: as the investigative leads. So I can see where now, yes,
Speaker 2: Evelyn becomes a prime suspect in John's homicide as a
Speaker 2: result of this, Now she the soul person doing it
Speaker 2: or there are others. I think that's the big.
Speaker 1: Question that is the big question. So a couple of
Speaker 1: other key things that the neighbors were watching her in
Speaker 1: awe as that night, she is desperately trying to squeeze
Speaker 1: this very large car in their very small garage around
Speaker 1: five o'clock or five thirty, so you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: she's trying to obviously get the car in the garage
Speaker 1: so she can clean it. Sounds like she actually got
Speaker 1: it in. When investigators get a warrant, I presume, and
Speaker 1: they go into her house, they find blood stained women's
Speaker 1: rain boots, as well as that missing blanket covered in
Speaker 1: blood that the auto shop owns, and it's cleaned and folded.
Speaker 1: Now this is very damning, most damningly, I would say,
Speaker 1: bone and teeth fragments are found in coal ashes that
Speaker 1: have been spread outside the garage door just behind the house.
Speaker 1: Eventually they say that these are John's incinerated remains. And
Speaker 1: now this looks super bad for Evelyn and of course
Speaker 1: for John. And you're right, now this turns into Evelyn
Speaker 1: clearly is involved. We don't know to what extent, But
Speaker 1: the big question is whether or not the mother and
Speaker 1: the father, or boyfriends or lovers or businessmen or politicians
Speaker 1: are also involved with this. Did she need help?
Speaker 2: Well, she most certainly could have pulled this off by herself.
Speaker 1: Poorly, very poorly, poorly.
Speaker 2: Very poorly, for sure. No. But I think back to
Speaker 2: the injuries on John. You've got two bullet grayses on
Speaker 2: his torso, his head has been cut off. The bullet
Speaker 2: grass as the pathologist said, they weren't fatal, and they
Speaker 2: bullet grazes aren't. John likely was shot in the head
Speaker 2: and then he was decapitated. And with the teeth fragments
Speaker 2: in these ashes, it looks like in essence, you know,
Speaker 2: at least his head and potentially his arms and legs
Speaker 2: were essentially cremated. You know, in this this location, could
Speaker 2: Evelyn have shot John in the head. Absolutely, And now
Speaker 2: she's just having to manipulate his body, cremate the smaller
Speaker 2: body parts, get rid of the torso. Getting rid of
Speaker 2: the torso is not easy, you know. That's I don't
Speaker 2: know how big John is, but I'm just going to say,
Speaker 2: let's say he's an average size mail. You know, even
Speaker 2: with his arms and legs and head missing, you know
Speaker 2: that torso is going to be weighing one hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty one hundred and forty pounds, if not more. The authorities,
Speaker 2: the investigators say it look like his torso had been
Speaker 2: pushed out of a moving car. I think that's hard
Speaker 2: for any driver to do, you know, so that would
Speaker 2: possibly suggest minimally a second person present. Then I'm speculating
Speaker 2: on that at this point. But right now it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: so where are we going from here? Evelyn is suspect
Speaker 2: number one.
Speaker 1: Here's where we're going from Paul. The police want, of course,
Speaker 1: a really thorough search, so they want to find more
Speaker 1: signs of John in the house. They climb the stairs
Speaker 1: and this is John and Evelyn's house, and they locate
Speaker 1: a suitcase. They're hoping to find more of his body parts,
Speaker 1: like his head or something, you know, his teeth that
Speaker 1: are out there. Like they're just looking for more evidence.
Speaker 1: They find a suitcase. They open up the suitcase. When
Speaker 1: I read this, I thought they were going to say
Speaker 1: they found his legs. They did not. They found a
Speaker 1: body and it was not John's body. It's a totally
Speaker 1: different person. And I am not going to talk to
Speaker 1: you about this for another week or so, so don't
Speaker 1: ask any questions. But this woman has a person in
Speaker 1: a suitcase in the attic of the home she shared
Speaker 1: with the husband, who she clearly was involved in disposing of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Evelyn is a dangerous woman.
Speaker 1: She seems to be, and we'll learn a lot more
Speaker 1: about that next week.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, you've got me on the edge once again.
Speaker 1: I like to keep you there. That's the point, to
Speaker 1: keep you on the edge. Okay, I'll see you next week,
Speaker 1: and I promise I'll have a conclusion for you.
Speaker 2: All right, looking forward to it again. Thanks Lockiate.
Speaker 1: This has been an exactly right production for our sources
Speaker 1: and show notes go to exactlyrightmedia dot com slash Buried
Speaker 1: Bones sources. Our senior producer is Alexis Emosi.
Speaker 2: Research by Maren mcclashan, Ali Elkin, and Kate Winkler Dawson.
Speaker 1: Our mixing engineer is Ben Tolliday.
Speaker 2: Our theme song is by Tom Bryfogel.
Speaker 1: Our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.
Speaker 2: Executive produced by Karen Kilgarriff, Georgia hard Stark, and Daniel Kramer.
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Speaker 2: Kate's most recent book, All That Is Wicked, a Gilded
Speaker 2: Age story of murder and the race to Decode the
Speaker 2: Criminal Mind is available now
Speaker 1: And Paul's best selling memoir Masked, My life solving America's
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