1
00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,320
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

2
00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:19,160
Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

3
00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,320
Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

4
00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,440
Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford,

5
00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:31,880
Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

6
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,400
Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

7
00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,120
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope

8
00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:43,040
Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it

9
00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,080
Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship

10
00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:57,120
Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so

11
00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,440
Speaker 1: much for joining me for session to ninety three of

12
00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,280
Speaker 1: the Therapy for a Black Girl's Podcast. We'll get into

13
00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:14,360
Speaker 1: our conversation after a word from our sponsors. Heavy is

14
00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,200
Speaker 1: the head that wears the superwoman crown, our cape. Black

15
00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,480
Speaker 1: women have worn this figurative cape on their backs for centuries,

16
00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,399
Speaker 1: writes Jasmine Velvin in the TBG blog, letting go of

17
00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:30,040
Speaker 1: the superwoman complex. And She's right. We often singing praises

18
00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,720
Speaker 1: of the strong black woman, but the moniker is a

19
00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:37,200
Speaker 1: double edged sword. Black women are strong, calm, and nurturing

20
00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,600
Speaker 1: while constantly pushing aside our well being and surviving in silence.

21
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,920
Speaker 1: There's a name for this phenomenon. It's the Superwoman schema

22
00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,880
Speaker 1: or syndrome. Today I'm joined by Dr Ryl Woods Giscombe,

23
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,040
Speaker 1: the woman who developed the groundbreaking conceptual framework to explore

24
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,120
Speaker 1: how black women experienced stress. Dr Woods gisco Bay is

25
00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,480
Speaker 1: a Distinguished as SEE A Professor of Quality of Life, Health,

26
00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,680
Speaker 1: Promotion and Wellness at the University of North Carolina at

27
00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,440
Speaker 1: Chapel Hill. Her research focuses on how stress leads to

28
00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:14,840
Speaker 1: health disparities among African Americans. In our conversation, we discussed

29
00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,280
Speaker 1: the origins of the Black superwoman trope and Dr Woods

30
00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:22,280
Speaker 1: giscone based research, how the effects of superwoman syndrome show

31
00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,440
Speaker 1: up in our everyday lives, and tips for those struggling

32
00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,920
Speaker 1: with taking off their capes. If something resonates with you

33
00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,359
Speaker 1: while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social

34
00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,960
Speaker 1: media using the hashtag TVG in session or join us

35
00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,960
Speaker 1: in the sister circles. To talk more in depth about

36
00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,080
Speaker 1: the episode, you can join us at community that Therapy

37
00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:48,720
Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com. Here's our conversation. Thank you

38
00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,640
Speaker 1: so much for joining us today, Dr Woods Come, Thank

39
00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,360
Speaker 1: you so much. It's great to be here with you. Yeah,

40
00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,720
Speaker 1: I am such a fan of your work and just

41
00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,000
Speaker 1: really excited to have this conversation with you because it's

42
00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,360
Speaker 1: such an important one, I think, especially for black women.

43
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,720
Speaker 1: So I want to first they'll have you talk with

44
00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:06,960
Speaker 1: us a little bit about the work that you do.

45
00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,120
Speaker 1: So you are a social and health psychologist, psychiatric nurse practitioner,

46
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,200
Speaker 1: and certified holistic health coach, So I'd love for you

47
00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,280
Speaker 1: to talk to us about how all of those disciplines

48
00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,919
Speaker 1: really come together and inform the work that you do

49
00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,840
Speaker 1: related to stress and mental health for black women. Thanks

50
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,000
Speaker 1: for asking that. As a high school student, I thought

51
00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,079
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a clinical psychologist. I felt that

52
00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,000
Speaker 1: I wanted to go into the field of therapy, and

53
00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,959
Speaker 1: I went to a historically black college, North Carolina Century

54
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,400
Speaker 1: University and have the benefit of being part of their

55
00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:41,160
Speaker 1: health Careers club and had research and clinical internships where

56
00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,560
Speaker 1: I was able to shadow clinicians as well as researchers.

57
00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,480
Speaker 1: And when I shadowed a clinician and actually had an

58
00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,840
Speaker 1: experience shadowing that clinician as their team provided care to

59
00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,440
Speaker 1: an older black woman. The assessment it was a mental

60
00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,520
Speaker 1: health assessment with this woman. I was able to observe that,

61
00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:00,920
Speaker 1: but I was on the fringe as I was quiet

62
00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:05,120
Speaker 1: because I was a student and be approach to assessing

63
00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:10,160
Speaker 1: her mental health. The communication with her was unsatisfactory to me,

64
00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,560
Speaker 1: not because the providers were not trying to give good care,

65
00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,280
Speaker 1: but because there seemed to be a big disconnect between

66
00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,600
Speaker 1: her lived experiences, her culture, and their interpretation of what

67
00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,120
Speaker 1: they were seeing. And so at that time I decided

68
00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:31,160
Speaker 1: I wanted to do more research to help other researchers

69
00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,520
Speaker 1: and other clinicians understand the context of people's lives and

70
00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,599
Speaker 1: how social factors influence health. And so I was fortunate

71
00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,200
Speaker 1: to be a psychology major at North Carolina Central, but

72
00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,760
Speaker 1: I also took courses in history and Black studies as

73
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:50,000
Speaker 1: well as public health, and through research experiences, I decided

74
00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,480
Speaker 1: to pursue a degree in social and health psychology, a

75
00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,320
Speaker 1: doctoral degree, because that was exactly, you know, what I

76
00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,680
Speaker 1: was hoping for, to understand people's social context and how

77
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:04,159
Speaker 1: that influences behavior, years and physiology and health. However, my

78
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,680
Speaker 1: first semester in my PhD program, I quickly understood that

79
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:13,280
Speaker 1: my doctoral program was mostly theoretical in terms of research

80
00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,760
Speaker 1: that was not applied and I should have known that before,

81
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,760
Speaker 1: but I did not understand that. And so while I

82
00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,719
Speaker 1: was collecting data on a research study looking at stress

83
00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,760
Speaker 1: and birth outcomes of low birth weight and preterm delivery,

84
00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,640
Speaker 1: I had a series of events encountering the providers on

85
00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,360
Speaker 1: that unit where the pregnant women came and would interview

86
00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,599
Speaker 1: them for that study. And one of the main providers

87
00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,000
Speaker 1: was a nurse practitioner, and I just observed how she

88
00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,279
Speaker 1: was really caring for the people we were including in

89
00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,960
Speaker 1: our research, how they related to her, and how she

90
00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,320
Speaker 1: was making sure their needs were meant. She was seeing

91
00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,880
Speaker 1: them as a full person, and and it just dawned

92
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,000
Speaker 1: on me that I wanted to be more applied in

93
00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,720
Speaker 1: my work. My advisors and professors suggested that not leave

94
00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,359
Speaker 1: my PhD program and helped me to see the ways

95
00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,560
Speaker 1: that nursing and social and health psychog G could be

96
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,159
Speaker 1: a great fit. And so that's how I proceeded. So

97
00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,919
Speaker 1: I stayed in the mental health realm pretty much in

98
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,720
Speaker 1: nursing and eventually got a nurse practitioner degree as a

99
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,640
Speaker 1: psychiatric nurse practitioner, and I continued to do my research,

100
00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,680
Speaker 1: so the practice inform my research and the research definitely

101
00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,360
Speaker 1: informed my practice as well. I love that. I think

102
00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,440
Speaker 1: so many of us have that story where we find

103
00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,480
Speaker 1: ourselves in like a program and just like, oh, this

104
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,719
Speaker 1: isn't exactly what I thought this was going to be.

105
00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,159
Speaker 1: It's true. Yeah, So at what point did your research

106
00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,440
Speaker 1: turn to the strong black woman or superwoman schema? How

107
00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,360
Speaker 1: did you fall into that research? It was during that

108
00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,920
Speaker 1: time where you know, I was very much interested in

109
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,200
Speaker 1: the African American experience from high school and the courses

110
00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,120
Speaker 1: I took in college, but also beginning to understand how

111
00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,160
Speaker 1: adverse birth outcomes were disproportionately high among Black women and

112
00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,320
Speaker 1: that stress was a factor and racism as a stresser

113
00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,159
Speaker 1: was important to study. So those foundational elements of my

114
00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,960
Speaker 1: education helped me to see that the way that we

115
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,360
Speaker 1: measure stress, or the way that we were measuring stress

116
00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,040
Speaker 1: and research and this is like the late ninety nineties

117
00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:12,360
Speaker 1: early two thousand's was not nuanced enough to understand the

118
00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,560
Speaker 1: ways that Black women experienced stress and the ways they

119
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,880
Speaker 1: chose to cope, and definitely wasn't nuanced enough to help

120
00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:23,200
Speaker 1: us understand how stress influence health outcomes. And so I

121
00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 1: came across literature lay literature like Essence magazine literature written

122
00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,360
Speaker 1: by noted Blacking my authors, but also the research literature

123
00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,520
Speaker 1: suggesting that gender and race were important factors and how

124
00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,120
Speaker 1: we measure stress. But what we weren't doing was measuring

125
00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,920
Speaker 1: this concept that we now call the strong Black woman

126
00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:47,080
Speaker 1: or the black superwoman, where black women appear and we

127
00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,120
Speaker 1: are very much strong. However, there's more to it than

128
00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,760
Speaker 1: what meets the eye, and so during my dissertation, my

129
00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,480
Speaker 1: advisor allowed me to ask some exploratory questions informed by

130
00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,960
Speaker 1: the literature or about things such as perceived obligation to

131
00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,920
Speaker 1: be strong. And at that time I was really interested

132
00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:10,880
Speaker 1: in emotional suppression and how emotional suppression. The literature suggesting

133
00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,400
Speaker 1: for broader populations that emotional expression was healthy, that its

134
00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,360
Speaker 1: strengthened the immune system protected against the common cold. And

135
00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,440
Speaker 1: so if we were suppressing emotions due to perceived obligations

136
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,360
Speaker 1: are related to perceive obligations to be strong, that made

137
00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,880
Speaker 1: me concern that it was maybe weakening our immune system

138
00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,200
Speaker 1: and weakening our health. My dissertation worn't led me to

139
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:38,160
Speaker 1: do some qualitative research with black women from various age

140
00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,960
Speaker 1: groups and educational backgrounds, and that's where that concept of

141
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,760
Speaker 1: Superwoman schema became expanded in response to the data that

142
00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,480
Speaker 1: we collected to have five characteristics, which is that perceived

143
00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,160
Speaker 1: obligation to be strong or to present image of strength,

144
00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,599
Speaker 1: as well as perceived obligations to suppress emotions, resistance to

145
00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,640
Speaker 1: being vulnerable or receiving help from others. That's the third characteristic,

146
00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:06,400
Speaker 1: motivation to succeed despite limited resources, and we all prioritization

147
00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:10,200
Speaker 1: of caregiving over self care. And I think I listed

148
00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:14,120
Speaker 1: all five. Yes, So those five characteristics were derived from

149
00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,880
Speaker 1: the qualitative data that was collected, and then a series

150
00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,120
Speaker 1: of studies that I conducted and now that many other

151
00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:24,440
Speaker 1: researchers are conducting, confirm that those categories. And now we're

152
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:30,040
Speaker 1: showing relationships between Superwoman scheme of characteristics and health resilience

153
00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,000
Speaker 1: as well as adverse health effects. M hmmm. Not to Cheryl,

154
00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,720
Speaker 1: it's not often that students can say that their dissertation

155
00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,520
Speaker 1: research spawned this whole new area of research. So that's

156
00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:46,720
Speaker 1: pretty impressive and I really thank my advisor for not

157
00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:48,800
Speaker 1: shutting it down. I mean, you know, I just came

158
00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,880
Speaker 1: from a conference where several who are women of color,

159
00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,680
Speaker 1: we had a really robust conversation about the experiences we've

160
00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,040
Speaker 1: had with having ideas, and they're probably why some innovations

161
00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,920
Speaker 1: that have not been actualized because they were supported or

162
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:09,120
Speaker 1: we were told ambitious or there's not enough evidence for that,

163
00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,840
Speaker 1: or no, you need to be doing this work over here.

164
00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,160
Speaker 1: So as many times as I get a chance to

165
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,839
Speaker 1: share the gratitude I have from my advisor and saying

166
00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:18,920
Speaker 1: this is not my area, but I'm willing to support

167
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,000
Speaker 1: you to do it. Mm hmmm, made all the difference.

168
00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,640
Speaker 1: So I'm curious at a cheryl if you have seen

169
00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,760
Speaker 1: a change or are there elements that you might add

170
00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,079
Speaker 1: to this list of five years later after your first

171
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,880
Speaker 1: kind of round of conducting research, would that list look

172
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,840
Speaker 1: largely the same today or how might it be different?

173
00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,880
Speaker 1: I would say that it would look largely the same.

174
00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,199
Speaker 1: I'm excited about is there are other researchers that are

175
00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,520
Speaker 1: expanding those concepts. In fact, I went to a presentation

176
00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,720
Speaker 1: just this past week and a researcher named Jule Scott,

177
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,080
Speaker 1: who is at the University of South Carolina does research

178
00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,640
Speaker 1: on self silencing and it's very closely related to the

179
00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,480
Speaker 1: emotional suppression care areacteristic, but she just added even more

180
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,960
Speaker 1: nuanced to it and people really resonated with it in

181
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,400
Speaker 1: the room when you present it. Because the conversation that

182
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,400
Speaker 1: some of the attendees add after her presentation was now,

183
00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:17,120
Speaker 1: when did the switch turn for me to stop self silence?

184
00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,000
Speaker 1: And when did I feel empowered enough to not silence?

185
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 1: You know, when was it safe enough? Or when had

186
00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,320
Speaker 1: I had enough? So I think what's happening now is

187
00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,600
Speaker 1: research is really helping to operationalize it more the work

188
00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,840
Speaker 1: that I'm doing, but thankfully the work that other people

189
00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,160
Speaker 1: are doing. And we're even you know, showing some association

190
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:41,080
Speaker 1: with objectively measured variables such as risk for cardiovascular disease

191
00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,840
Speaker 1: and even teal and mere length so that you know,

192
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,640
Speaker 1: the caps of the chromosomes that are associated with biological aging.

193
00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:52,320
Speaker 1: So it's exciting that we're seeing relationships between these variables.

194
00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,400
Speaker 1: Emotional suppression and this prioritization of caregiving over self care

195
00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,120
Speaker 1: tend to be the ones that are most important for

196
00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,360
Speaker 1: us to really notice. It's not that being strong in

197
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,440
Speaker 1: and of itself is a bad thing. Of course, that's

198
00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,559
Speaker 1: not a bad thing, but maybe strength in the face

199
00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,040
Speaker 1: of not having someone to talk to comfortably and safely

200
00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,640
Speaker 1: and strengthen the face of never giving yourself down time

201
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,520
Speaker 1: and always putting others first. It's something that is actually

202
00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,120
Speaker 1: not healthy for us to do, even though we are

203
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,400
Speaker 1: doing this out of concern for our families, our communities,

204
00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,440
Speaker 1: and society at large. How do we have strength and

205
00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,120
Speaker 1: also care for others while also finding time for self care?

206
00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,040
Speaker 1: M M. That's the question. Yeah, And I would love

207
00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,200
Speaker 1: to hear your insight there, Dr Shell, because I think

208
00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,920
Speaker 1: that is the difficulty, right, Like, there is so much

209
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,800
Speaker 1: I think of the world, and definitely in the US

210
00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,000
Speaker 1: that requires strength from black women right as a form

211
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,760
Speaker 1: of survival in a lot of ways. But as you

212
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,320
Speaker 1: pointed out, you know there is a line at which

213
00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,280
Speaker 1: it goes too for how do we help other black

214
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,520
Speaker 1: women or what are your suggestions for like not crossing

215
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,920
Speaker 1: the line? How do we put strength almost in perspective,

216
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,120
Speaker 1: that's a great way to put it. How do we

217
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,880
Speaker 1: put strength in perspective? I think number one, having and

218
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:13,080
Speaker 1: nurturing authentic relationships where we can let our guard down

219
00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:18,800
Speaker 1: and talk freely and receive support. We're often the one

220
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:23,480
Speaker 1: supporting others, And how do we allow others to support

221
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,000
Speaker 1: us in ways that are nurturing and nourishing and feel

222
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:31,640
Speaker 1: up our tank. Mindfulness is a practice that I study

223
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,160
Speaker 1: and investigating my research, and I think it's extremely important

224
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,839
Speaker 1: because it allows us to notice how the day to

225
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:43,359
Speaker 1: day is influencing our health, our mental health or physical bodies,

226
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,559
Speaker 1: and even our relationships. Sometimes we're so busy trying to

227
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,040
Speaker 1: get things done and to survive, as you said, that

228
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,360
Speaker 1: we don't look up or stop enough to notice the

229
00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,040
Speaker 1: impact that it's having on us. And so mindfulness is

230
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:03,400
Speaker 1: sometimes critique because it's an individual based intervention, and we

231
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,240
Speaker 1: know that a lot of these challenges that we are

232
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,400
Speaker 1: discussing our structural they're coming from outside of us and

233
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:16,160
Speaker 1: based in racism and oppression and historical social stressors, and

234
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,240
Speaker 1: so it is important for us address all of those

235
00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:23,160
Speaker 1: things at the structural level and where human beings experienced

236
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,560
Speaker 1: in this structure. So in the meantime, you know, how

237
00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:30,080
Speaker 1: can we rely on our resources and give ourselves permission

238
00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:34,160
Speaker 1: to have some time to be still and to breathe

239
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:38,160
Speaker 1: and to exercise and to sleep and all of those

240
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,920
Speaker 1: things that we know are healthy for us. Mm hmmm.

241
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:52,840
Speaker 1: That sounds so important. More from our conversation after the break,

242
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:55,760
Speaker 1: but I'd love for you to say a little bit

243
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,800
Speaker 1: more about the pushback that mindfulness does get, because I

244
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,720
Speaker 1: think I've heard that feedback. Also, what good is like

245
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,040
Speaker 1: meditating gonna do when like the world is on fire

246
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,160
Speaker 1: and crumbling? So with other strategies, would you suggest for

247
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,760
Speaker 1: people who really can't get past that moment right that

248
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:11,880
Speaker 1: this feels too big for me to kind of breathe

249
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,840
Speaker 1: my way through. I really love this discussion, and I'm

250
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,880
Speaker 1: happy when people challenge me because you know, I think

251
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,720
Speaker 1: about our ancestors, right. We talk about the struggles and

252
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:25,520
Speaker 1: strains that we experience. And if our ancestors are grandparents

253
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,560
Speaker 1: and those before them waited for structure to change before

254
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,400
Speaker 1: they were able to laugh and have joy and procreate

255
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,440
Speaker 1: and be happy, we wouldn't be here. They had to

256
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,960
Speaker 1: find something in their community, something in their households, something

257
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,800
Speaker 1: individually to continue to give themselves hope to keep going,

258
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,080
Speaker 1: so we could say, now we need to change the structure.

259
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,560
Speaker 1: Don't blame the victim by giving these individual interventions. You

260
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,320
Speaker 1: think about social activists that work so hard every day

261
00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,920
Speaker 1: and are worried about the struggle as we call it,

262
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,040
Speaker 1: but to be able to be as robust as possible

263
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:06,680
Speaker 1: to address those things they still need to eat, they

264
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,480
Speaker 1: still need to sleep, they still need to laugh, And

265
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 1: so you can't be on all the time or you're

266
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,560
Speaker 1: going to implode. We've seen that in our leaders and

267
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,280
Speaker 1: our warriors, where people just fight so hard all the

268
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,360
Speaker 1: time because there's always something to fight for. Then what

269
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,600
Speaker 1: does that mean for their quality of life? And so

270
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,840
Speaker 1: no matter how many groups were in, no matter how

271
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,720
Speaker 1: many courthouses we go to or how many marches we

272
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,960
Speaker 1: go in, there's gonna be times we're alone and that

273
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:37,600
Speaker 1: we have to look in the mirror and we have

274
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,440
Speaker 1: to deal with a person in front of us. And

275
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,920
Speaker 1: so that's when mental health matters were part of structures.

276
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,760
Speaker 1: Yet we're, as people say, spiritual beings in a physical world,

277
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,920
Speaker 1: and so that individual still has to be well. The

278
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,280
Speaker 1: ones that are going to change the social status, the

279
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:59,640
Speaker 1: social structures, those are people who make up those groups

280
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,880
Speaker 1: with seamakers or people. Structures are not robotic, they're made

281
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,000
Speaker 1: of people. So we need people to be well so

282
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,440
Speaker 1: they can advocate for humanity. It's never one or the other.

283
00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,040
Speaker 1: And so when we think about like the ecological framework,

284
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,760
Speaker 1: we often say, well, we focus too much on the individual.

285
00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,680
Speaker 1: We need to focus on the outer circles. But still

286
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,840
Speaker 1: that doesn't say dismissed the individual. It means the individual

287
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,640
Speaker 1: is in this structure. So we need to tend to

288
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,240
Speaker 1: all of the above. Thank you for that. I think

289
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,000
Speaker 1: that that's important, right, like that the individual is needed

290
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:33,960
Speaker 1: for us to be able to change these structures, and

291
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,520
Speaker 1: we have to have something that sustains us so that

292
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,320
Speaker 1: we can kind of live to fight another day, so

293
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,040
Speaker 1: to speak. That's right. Yeah, yeah, So Dr Sheryl, you

294
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,280
Speaker 1: know you, I feel like we're on the cutting edge

295
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,240
Speaker 1: of really when people started looking at like research just

296
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,000
Speaker 1: for black people. So you've already mentioned that your advisor

297
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,639
Speaker 1: was thankfully supportive. I wonder what was the perception or

298
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,760
Speaker 1: response to your research from other peers and even other

299
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,000
Speaker 1: black women. Do you remember any of that they were supportive?

300
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,560
Speaker 1: Because I have one peer in particular, and people may

301
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,879
Speaker 1: have heard of. Her name is Dr Angela Rose Black,

302
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,880
Speaker 1: and she developed an organization, a grassroots organization called Mindfulness

303
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,760
Speaker 1: for the People. We met each other at a health

304
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:20,119
Speaker 1: equity conference and recognized that we were doing similar work,

305
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,760
Speaker 1: and we made a vow that day to support each

306
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,919
Speaker 1: other because both of us, I think we're hesitant to

307
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,320
Speaker 1: put our work out there because on one hand, we

308
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,200
Speaker 1: wanted to get it right, like if we're talking about

309
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,399
Speaker 1: black women and the stress of experience and how we cope.

310
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,640
Speaker 1: We didn't want to pathologize black women. We didn't want

311
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,240
Speaker 1: to quote unquote like air dirty laundry. We wanted to

312
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,080
Speaker 1: be robust and how we described what we were thinking

313
00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,600
Speaker 1: and what we were finding. So we kind of cheered

314
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,400
Speaker 1: each other along and supported one another and even wrote

315
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,679
Speaker 1: a couple of papers together, so there was support. There

316
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,359
Speaker 1: was support, definitely. I'm glad to hear that. You know,

317
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,239
Speaker 1: I think that that's interesting that you bring up this

318
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,240
Speaker 1: idea of airing dirty laundry because I think even with

319
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,000
Speaker 1: the work that we do it their people like girl,

320
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,200
Speaker 1: it always feels like it's a very delicate balance of

321
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,520
Speaker 1: having the kinds of conversations that we know we need

322
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 1: to have, but also like not wanting to air dirty

323
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,720
Speaker 1: laundry and making it like an in home conversation. So

324
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 1: that being yeah, so I appreciate you sharing that. Yes, So,

325
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,400
Speaker 1: how do you feel like your work on the Superwoman's

326
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,040
Speaker 1: scheme to influence your own mental health in your relationship

327
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:24,119
Speaker 1: to stress? It keeps me in check. It helps me

328
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,560
Speaker 1: to say you know, where am I. It's almost like

329
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,240
Speaker 1: a thermometer for me because I'm aware my children have

330
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,080
Speaker 1: hurt me, present about it their entire lives, so they

331
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 1: will also check me or they'll check themselves. So it's

332
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,199
Speaker 1: just you know, helps me to remember because you know,

333
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,719
Speaker 1: life is like ocean waves, It's always coming in and

334
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,800
Speaker 1: it's going down in terms of challenges and triumphs. It

335
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 1: helps me to retool. You can have good coping strategies,

336
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,320
Speaker 1: but then as we you know, evolve and progress, life

337
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,760
Speaker 1: gives us a new challenges and we have to keep

338
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 1: updating our strategies and check in especially you know, of

339
00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,199
Speaker 1: course we've all experienced COVID and multiple ways, and so

340
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,719
Speaker 1: that definitely required us to reflect in deepen the ways

341
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 1: that we manage things like isolation or changes in our

342
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 1: social environment, you know, not being able to be around

343
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 1: family or other things as much that may have been supportive.

344
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,640
Speaker 1: So it really is a great reminder to me to

345
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 1: check myself, you know, and to see how am I

346
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,119
Speaker 1: doing there? So it definitely influences my mental health, but

347
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 1: also my mental health influenced the development of Superwoman scheming.

348
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,919
Speaker 1: You know, I've always been a person to take on

349
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 1: multiple things, and as a graduate student, as you mentioned,

350
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,919
Speaker 1: I was a nursing student, I was a psychology student.

351
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,679
Speaker 1: I did the certification and holistic health all at the

352
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,120
Speaker 1: same time. I reached out for strategies to deal with

353
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,240
Speaker 1: my stress, and that's how I really was reintroduced to mindfulness.

354
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,719
Speaker 1: All of it came together to goud this work. So

355
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,200
Speaker 1: it's back and forth for sure. I think it's really

356
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 1: cool that you said the kids will get involved in

357
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 1: checking you, So can you say more about that, because

358
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,160
Speaker 1: I think that that is an interesting concept that other

359
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,159
Speaker 1: people can help us to do a better job of

360
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,640
Speaker 1: taking care of our mental health. What does that look

361
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 1: like for the kids to check you? Oh, they'll say,

362
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,159
Speaker 1: are you having Superwoman's scheme? Or they'll say it to themselves.

363
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 1: They like to see me achieve things in life. But

364
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,480
Speaker 1: they also will say, mommy, you deserve rest. They're pretty

365
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,200
Speaker 1: holistic in it. And then I have to remind them

366
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,199
Speaker 1: of the same things, you know, when they're taking them

367
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 1: things or they're own clubs or taking a leadership role.

368
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 1: I have to remind them like, don't let this define

369
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,679
Speaker 1: you doing this and doing that and going here and

370
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 1: going there, don't let that define you. Remember that rest

371
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,679
Speaker 1: is important and you're more than those roles, because we

372
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 1: can get caught up in that very healthy modeling. It

373
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 1: sounds like two do orders. So I'm trying, so you

374
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 1: know that to share all My experience with a lot

375
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,719
Speaker 1: of black women is that we do not even recognize

376
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 1: that we are headed towards a brick wall until we

377
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 1: are crashing into it. And so I wonder if you

378
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,199
Speaker 1: can offer some suggestions around how people might even know

379
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,439
Speaker 1: that they are struggling with the superwoman syndrome. Yeah, I

380
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,879
Speaker 1: think again. I think that's why it's really important for

381
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 1: us to have some form of mind body practice. It

382
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 1: could be mindfulness, it could be yoga, it could be

383
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 1: other forms of meditation, it could be your spiritual practices,

384
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 1: because those are the things that help us to slow

385
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 1: down and recognize that things are off balance. And oftentimes

386
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 1: you're right. That's when we notice is when we've gone

387
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 1: too far, where we crash or there's a burnout. I mean,

388
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to advocate for crashing or burnout, but

389
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: i also want women to know that we have what

390
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 1: is enthusiasm right about making things better and helping other people.

391
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: And when we notice that it's okay to step back

392
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: and rest and let people know that I'm out of

393
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 1: the office, or I'm on vacation, or I'm taking a

394
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 1: Facebook fast or all the different things that people do.

395
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 1: So I think the biggest way is to have friends

396
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:54,880
Speaker 1: that are accountability partners. Others also might benefit from formal therapy,

397
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: you know, having someone that you check in with on

398
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 1: a regular basis, which can be a proactive way of

399
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,159
Speaker 1: preventing things from getting out of hand or dealing with

400
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: things when they've gotten too far, and then maintaining that.

401
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 1: So I think having a variety of strategies is important

402
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: for sure. More from our conversation after the Break, We

403
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 1: recently had a conversation Dr Cheryl about navigating academia as

404
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 1: a black woman, and a lot of the feedback that

405
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: we got around that episode was that so many members

406
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 1: of our community found it really difficult in a space

407
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,719
Speaker 1: like academia to do a lot of boundary setting, right,

408
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 1: especially if you're trying to be on the tenure track

409
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: or you know, like if you're the only black woman

410
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 1: in your department, Like I'm sure you know a lot

411
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: of this, there are always so many demands on your time,

412
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: lots of request to be on committees and do these

413
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 1: different things. What does it look like to try to

414
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 1: remove this cape as a superwoman when you find yourself

415
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: in a space like academia or some of these other

416
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,719
Speaker 1: workspaces that are very demanding. I'm so glad you you

417
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 1: did have a conversation about that, because it is such

418
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: a challenge, and I think a lot of people who

419
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: are in academia go through that challenge, as you said,

420
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 1: of being the only one, and then when you're not

421
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: the only one, or when you've finally been promoted or

422
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: you've advanced, then you find yourself trying to make sure

423
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: that the path is still clear for other people to

424
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: come through. So I think one of the biggest things,

425
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: you know, there are many things we can do, but

426
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: is to not have academia be the center of your life.

427
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: To make sure you have other things in life that

428
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: bring you joy and that balance you and that you

429
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: can go to so that it's not seven. Academia and

430
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: those other things in life can you remind you about

431
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: what's most important in life, but they also remind you

432
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: your why why are you dealing with so many challenges?

433
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 1: Why have you chosen to put yourself in this position,

434
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 1: and those things can be sources of inspiration. Continue having

435
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 1: a mentoring like call like advisory board of various mentors

436
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: that you can talk to who are more advanced than you,

437
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: perhaps in academia and your spiritual realm and health coaching.

438
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: Various forms of mentors I think are extremely helpful. I

439
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 1: also learned very much, so vicariously from others. So even

440
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: if I don't know the people personally, I love studying

441
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 1: other people and noticing that I'm not alone in the challenges.

442
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 1: So one of the people that I vicariously studied early

443
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: in my career was Kathy Hughes, the founder of Radio One,

444
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: just learning about her story of being a single mom,

445
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: but also of purchasing the radio station, living in the

446
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: radio station, you know, raising her child, the struggles that

447
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: she accomplished. You know, we often see people when they're

448
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: shining in there at the height of success, but to

449
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: understand what people went through to get there can help

450
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: service inspiration for some of the things we go through.

451
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: But definitely not to do it by yourself or without

452
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: a community of supporters outside of academia. So, Dr Cheryl,

453
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: what kind of research are you focusing on now? Are

454
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: you still kind of extending the work of the Superwoman's schema.

455
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: Are there other things you're focusing on? Yes, So I

456
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: am extending the work of Superwoman's schema. So we have

457
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 1: a scale that's validated and you know, has strong psychometric property.

458
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: So I'm collaborating with a number of other investigators to

459
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: incorporate that scale and various research with various populations, so

460
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: young women, emerging adults, professional women, people with lupus, people

461
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 1: with cardiovascular disease, students, So I love collaborating in that way.

462
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: I'm also doing intervention research. So one of the health

463
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: outcomes other than birth outcomes that I study as cardiovascular

464
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: disease prevention and diabetes prevention. So we're doing research to

465
00:26:55,160 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 1: try to develop sustainable interventions for black women that can

466
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 1: be placed in the community so more women can benefit

467
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: from understanding the role of stress and Superwoman schema in

468
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: their lives. But I'm also still very much involved in

469
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: mental health work. Just finished to study. It was actually

470
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: a project with a federally qualified health center where we

471
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: help to integrate behavioral health into primary care and make

472
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: sure that behavioral health is relevant to the needs of

473
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: the providers, but also that the providers have support to

474
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: integrate behavioral health because there's a shortage of mental health providers,

475
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 1: and giving those providers the tools that are going to

476
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: help sustain them in their fields is what we need

477
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: to structurally change the nature of people's access to care.

478
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: So those are some of the things that I've been

479
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 1: involved in. Lots of good stuff. You're very busy. I

480
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: see why the kids are encouraging you to make sure

481
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: that you're taking time of yourself. Yes, and my husband

482
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: does as well. He knows about Superwoman's scheme and he'll

483
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: check me with that as well, and I do the

484
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,239
Speaker 1: same for him, even though he's a male. Right. So

485
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: you mentioned Dr Scott's work and self silencing as an

486
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: extension of your work. Are there other scholars doing work

487
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: that are like extensions of your work that you're excited about. Well? Yes.

488
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: So one reason that we call its Superwoman's Scheme, I've

489
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: called it early on was that I wondered that eventually

490
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: what people want to look at this in groups other

491
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 1: than black women, And so there are some researchers that

492
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: are looking at it across cultures. So I'm not directly

493
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: involved in that research, but they're using the scale I

494
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: think the other extensions are more so those populations that

495
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: I've mentioned in terms of different age groups and professional

496
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: disciplines of black women. And of course there are other

497
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: people who focus on development, so they're looking at how

498
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: it develops in children, so dietic research with mothers and

499
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: children and emerging adults. It is really exciting. I have

500
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: a student who's looking at intergenerational trauma and the transfer

501
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: of stress across generations, including the development of superwoman schema.

502
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: So it's fun and actually gratifying to see it take

503
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: a life of its own because I could not possibly

504
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: do all of that work, so it's really nice to

505
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: support others and cheer them along when they're doing it.

506
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Thank you for sharing all of that. So

507
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: where can we stay connected with your work? Dr Cheryl?

508
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: What is your website as well as in these social

509
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: media handles you'd like to share? Okay, So I'm Dr

510
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: Cheryl giscon Bay on Twitter. I have a website at

511
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: u n C Chapel Hill, so you can just google

512
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: Sheryl giscone Bay. So my primary appointment in the School

513
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: of Nursing. I have Facebook, but I don't put as

514
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: much professional content there but I'm Srrol Woods getscon Bay

515
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: and Instagram. I believe I'm Dr Cheryl Getscombay too. As

516
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: you can see, I'm not a huge Instagram, but you

517
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: can find me there. You know. Really, I'm still really

518
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: focused on getting the literature out there scientifically and doing

519
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: work like this, so I'm very grateful, absolutely absolutely thank

520
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us, and we will definitely

521
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: include all of those links in our show notes. Thank you.

522
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: It's so cool to hear that Dr Wood Giscone based

523
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: daughters are already aware of the superwoman syndrome, remind her

524
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: of when she's carrying too much, and know how to

525
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: untie their capes. Since she discussed using mindfulness in yoga

526
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: as a checks and balances method for those struggling with

527
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: Superwomen's syndrome, we thought it would be great to leave

528
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: you with a brief affirmation you can use when you

529
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: need it. Here's a short affirmation from linea As Crawford,

530
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: a licensed therapist, holistic healer, and certified yoga breathwork and

531
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: meditation guide. Hello, my name is Liniah Smith Crawford, and

532
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: I'm here with the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. My

533
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: affirmation for you is you are loved, you are held,

534
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: and it is safe for you to receive help. I'm

535
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: so glad Dr Wood giscone Bay was able to join

536
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: us to share her exercise today and shout out to

537
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: Ladea for her heartwarming words. To learn more about Dr

538
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: Woods giscon Bay or Lenia, be sure to visit the

539
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash

540
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: Session to ninety three and don't forget to text two

541
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: of your girls right now and tell them to check

542
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: out the episode. Also, a huge thank you to everyone

543
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: who has already voted for us in the inn Double

544
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: A CP Image Awards category for best Lifestyle slash self

545
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: help Podcast. If you haven't, please take a moment to

546
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: vote for the podcast at vote dot n double A

547
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: CP Image Awards dot net. If you're looking for a

548
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: therapist in your area, check out our therapist directory at

549
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if

550
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: you want to continue digging into this topic or just

551
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: be in community with other sisters, come on over and

552
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner

553
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: of the Internet designed just for black women. You can

554
00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: join us at community dot Therapy for Black Girls dot com.

555
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by FRIEDA. Lucas and Alice Ellis,

556
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: and editing was done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank you

557
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: all so much for joining me again this week. I

558
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.

559
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: Take it care