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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back, George Nori. Our special guest is clinical

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Speaker 2: psychologist doctor Edward Bruce Binham. You received the prestigious Abraham

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Speaker 2: Maslow Award from the American Psychological Association. He's a published author.

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Speaker 2: Several of his books include Dark Light Consciousness, The Dream

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Speaker 2: Life of Families in A Thousand Years in the Body,

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Speaker 2: and a published poet as well. Edward, welcome back. How

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Speaker 2: are you.

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Speaker 3: I'm great, George. Good to hear your voice again.

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Speaker 2: What's your favorite poem that you wrote?

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Speaker 3: The favorite, I guess would be the Dark Bird?

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Speaker 2: A guess da Bird? Was that something spiritual?

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Speaker 3: It is a combination. It's like dreams, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: both scientific in a certain sense and based on observation,

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Speaker 3: but it's also very fluid, which is what poetry is like, which,

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Speaker 3: as we know, all our dreams are.

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Speaker 2: Like one of my favorite poems, The Road Not Taken.

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Speaker 3: Ah. Yes, yes, yes.

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Speaker 2: That has made all the difference.

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Speaker 3: Yes. Robert Frost, Robert Frost, right, he lived, He used

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Speaker 3: to live right here in town rhyme and Namous, Massachusetts

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Speaker 3: for a while.

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Speaker 2: Yes, did you ever meet him?

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Speaker 3: No no, no no no no no no, no, no.

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Speaker 2: Any great, what's news I had? What is new with you?

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Speaker 3: Beg your pardon?

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Speaker 2: What is new with you?

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Speaker 3: What's new with me? Well, my dreams seemed to have

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Speaker 3: become more and more like a living experience that we're

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Speaker 3: all having. I dream every night. I was dreaming about

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Speaker 3: an hour or so ago, and it felt like a

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Speaker 3: very different world than this one. But obviously it's happening

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Speaker 3: to the same person, so it they flowed together. You know,

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Speaker 3: a dream is like dream is like sitting by side

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Speaker 3: a river and watching things come down the river, and

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Speaker 3: you never know what's going to happen next, but yet

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Speaker 3: the shape of the river stays the same. So it's

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Speaker 3: a curious combination of instantaneous newness and yet ancient, archaic

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Speaker 3: elemental events. It is the one mystical experience that we

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Speaker 3: all share every night.

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Speaker 2: Why don't we always remember our dreams? Edward?

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Speaker 3: It can be complicated. I mean, some people don't remember

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Speaker 3: their dreams simply because they don't have much interest in dreams.

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Speaker 3: You know, if you have an interest in your dreams,

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Speaker 3: you're more likely to remember them. And if you think

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Speaker 3: your dreams are meaningful to you, you're more likely to

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Speaker 3: remember them. But if you don't value your dreams very much,

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Speaker 3: which is can be unhelpful, then you're not going to

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Speaker 3: remember them as much. But rest assured, every every time

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Speaker 3: we go to sleep, we dream. In fact, if we

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Speaker 3: don't dream, if we don't dream, or we're stopped from

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Speaker 3: dreaming for a long time, we can actually become unstable

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Speaker 3: because the brain needs to dream, It really needs to dream.

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Speaker 3: Those ninety minute cycles that the brain goes through are important,

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Speaker 3: and if they're interrupted for a long period of time,

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Speaker 3: we can get these stabilized. In fact, that used to

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Speaker 3: be a brainwashing technique used during the many years ago

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Speaker 3: in the Korean War. What the Korean North Koreans learned

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Speaker 3: how to do is instead of torturing soldiers, which they

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Speaker 3: knew about certainly, and the soldiers kind of anticipated, instead

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Speaker 3: of that, they wouldn't let them fall asleep. They keep

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Speaker 3: them awake. Well, the first twenty four hours you can

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Speaker 3: get through that without dreaming, but by thirty six hours

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Speaker 3: you're feeling a little woozy. If you haven't slept and

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Speaker 3: haven't dreamed, by forty eight hours, your mind is begunning

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Speaker 3: me very very confused, and by fifty sixty hours. You

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Speaker 3: can't tell the difference between waking, dreaming, visions or whatever.

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Speaker 3: And so somebody asks you a question, you tell them

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Speaker 3: the truth, or they can implant something in your mind

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Speaker 3: very easily. So our brains actually physiologically need that cycle

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Speaker 3: of sleep which dreams occur or else it makes us unstable.

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Speaker 2: Edward, How did the North Koreans know this technique?

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Speaker 3: They knew it. That what they did was different is

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Speaker 3: that they I used it like Americans and others did

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Speaker 3: not use it as much. But the North Koreans used

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Speaker 3: it because they didn't want to kill the soldier. They

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Speaker 3: wanted to get the sol you to change his mind.

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Speaker 3: He wanted to get the soldier to change his mind

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Speaker 3: and say things against the country. And many people would

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Speaker 3: prefer to die instead of do that. But if someone

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Speaker 3: has control of the roots of your mind, then they

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Speaker 3: have control of you. And so it's a much more

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Speaker 3: effective technique and much more and much more effective. And

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Speaker 3: I'm sure the various governments do it today to their soldiers,

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Speaker 3: but North Koreans were the first one is to do

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Speaker 3: it in mass and they were pretty successful at it,

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Speaker 3: pretty successful at it.

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Speaker 2: Now there are various types of dreams. What creates those

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Speaker 2: differences like lucid dreaming pre cognitive dreaming, What creates the

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Speaker 2: different one?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, most of this experience what we call

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Speaker 3: normal dreams, which means.

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Speaker 4: That you you you sort of like go to the

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Speaker 4: movies in your mind, you know, and the dream sort

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Speaker 4: of flows along and all kinds of things happen in it.

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Speaker 3: But it's not so scary, you know. The most normal

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Speaker 3: dreams involve images, because that's part of where your brain

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Speaker 3: gets activated. They condense all kinds of things that went

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Speaker 3: on in your life recently, They dig into deep things

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Speaker 3: that went a long time ago on. They distort what's

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Speaker 3: coming into your mind and then turns many of them

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Speaker 3: into symbols. And that's a normal dream.

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Speaker 2: What got you into Edward? What got you into clinical psychology?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Well, you know, when I was a kid, I

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Speaker 3: was always interested in the in dreams and the mind,

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Speaker 3: and so I figured out a way in college to

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Speaker 3: study by dreams, and then I decided I'm going to

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Speaker 3: be a living on it this because I enjoy it

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Speaker 3: so much. So it's really a childhood preoccupation I had

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Speaker 3: that immatured and allowed me to eventually go to graduate

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Speaker 3: school and beyond and allowed me to make a life

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Speaker 3: out of being able to study. One of the phenomenon

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Speaker 3: that is most intriguing to me is dreams.

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Speaker 2: Do you have clients that come to you and tell

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Speaker 2: you about their dreams.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that is one of the things that I used

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Speaker 3: to do when I was at the university's hospital clinic.

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Speaker 3: Part of my specialty was working with with psychosomatic medicine,

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Speaker 3: in other words, how the deep mind influences our physical symptoms.

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Speaker 3: But I also found and was able to use the

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Speaker 3: fact that dreams also do the same things. Dreams will express,

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Speaker 3: you know, when we're sick, and in fact, and what's

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Speaker 3: called prodromal dreams, a dream will kind of tell you

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Speaker 3: that your body is ill before you physically know it's ill.

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Speaker 3: They're called prodromal dreams. So the mind and the body

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Speaker 3: are intimately linked, and dreams of one of the places

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Speaker 3: where they sort of enter into the same pool, the

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Speaker 3: same river, the same territory at the same time. And

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Speaker 3: it's pretty difficult to draw a sharp distinction between what's

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Speaker 3: going on in quote, waking reality and in quote other

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Speaker 3: kinds of things, because a dream can incorporate both of

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Speaker 3: those at the same time the lucid dream that you mentioned.

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Speaker 3: The lucid dream, George, is where you actually are aware

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Speaker 3: that you're dreaming and then can actually change what's going

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Speaker 3: on or influence what's going on in the dream. So

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Speaker 3: that's what a lucid dream is. Is that, say, something

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Speaker 3: is going on in the dream, you're you're flying in

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Speaker 3: an airplane and you're looking out the window, and then

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Speaker 3: you suddenly sort of kind of wake up while you're

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Speaker 3: dreaming and you realize, oh, this is a dream. Then

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Speaker 3: you can actually control the plane in the dream.

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Speaker 2: No matter what happens to the plane, you're gonna be okay.

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Speaker 3: Most of the time.

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Speaker 5: Really, Yes, some people get reckless and in a lucid dream,

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Speaker 5: but some people find a way in a lucid dream, George.

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Speaker 3: Some people find a way to turn it into a

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Speaker 3: deep learning experience and they can have contact with great

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Speaker 3: teachers in the world. They can contact the deep resources

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Speaker 3: of the mind and a lucid dream, and some people

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Speaker 3: use the lucid dream for deep psychological and even spiritual exploration,

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Speaker 3: contacting teachers, ancestors. There all kinds of things you can

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Speaker 3: do when you have a lucid dream, because it's a

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Speaker 3: lucid dream is literally a dream that I'd wide awaken,

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Speaker 3: know who I am and can change. It's like walking

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Speaker 3: into a theater watching the movie and then decided to

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Speaker 3: edit the movie to make this happen and make that

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Speaker 3: not happen. It's really great if you're doing it for therapy,

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Speaker 3: because then you can confront some of your greatest fears, phobias,

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Speaker 3: or desires. So lucid dreaming is really really phenomenal, phenomenal experience,

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Speaker 3: and most people have a few lucid dreams during the lifetime.

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Speaker 3: But you can, George, you can actually train yourself. You

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Speaker 3: can actually train yourself with some discipline to learn how

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Speaker 3: to have an experience that enter lucid dreams.

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Speaker 2: Didn't They have some scientists who had dreams of incredible

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Speaker 2: discoveries that came true.

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Speaker 3: Yes, they had. They those are called well they have

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Speaker 3: a lot of different days. The point is a lot

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Speaker 3: of great scientists have used their dreams to unclever scientific data.

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Speaker 3: Like way back in the nineteenth century, there was a scientist,

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Speaker 3: biochemist named cous you and uh yes, and he was

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Speaker 3: uh working on the benzene ring in biochemistry, and he

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Speaker 3: couldn't figure out some particular problem as part of the issue.

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Speaker 3: And he was on a train and he was thinking

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Speaker 3: about it and thinking about it and thinking about it,

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Speaker 3: and he kind of fell asleep on the train, and

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Speaker 3: when he had he had a dream, and he had

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Speaker 3: a dream of a snake biting its own tail. And

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Speaker 3: he woke up and suddenly he had the He had

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Speaker 3: the chemical solution, and that was the benzene ring. So yes,

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Speaker 3: and even the guy, even the guy who was studying

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Speaker 3: the periodic table, he uh sort of had deep visions

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Speaker 3: and dreams of the missing parts of the periodic table

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Speaker 3: and he was able to, oh, yes and fill it in.

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Speaker 3: And that was another way in which dreams helped you

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Speaker 3: uh sort of uh figure out scientific issues. The dell

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Speaker 3: been delvil, I think is how you pronounced his name.

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Speaker 3: But anyway, those are two instances in which dreams helped

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Speaker 3: persons actually just uh discover scientific clinically useful data. And

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Speaker 3: of course, you know, dreams are very, very useful when

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Speaker 3: it comes to the arts. I mean, we all remember

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Speaker 3: that poem by Samuel Taylor's Samuel Taylor Coldridge Kubla Khan. Well,

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Speaker 3: that was discovered or I should say, invented in his

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Speaker 3: dreams date, and he sort of took a fragment of

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Speaker 3: that and he sort of like intered, did work with it,

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Speaker 3: expanded it. He had to use up his uh poetic

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Speaker 3: uh genius to do that, obviously, but it all came

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Speaker 3: out of a dream. So yes, they world of science

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Speaker 3: and the world of the arts are full scattered with

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Speaker 3: how dreams have been profound insights into the nature of reality,

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Speaker 3: the nature of truth, and nature spiritual experience.

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Speaker 2: Edward, Do the dreams originate within the brain or outside

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Speaker 2: of the brain somehow?

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Speaker 3: Well, George, that's a very interesting and profound question. Most

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Speaker 3: of us, most of the time have our dreams stimulated

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Speaker 3: by the deep in our own brain. Now it's just

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Speaker 3: not physiological phenomenon, obviously, but it's a psychological phenomenon unique

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Speaker 3: to us. But there's there's a growing cadre of scientists

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Speaker 3: who feel that dreams are stimulated not only by phenomenon

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Speaker 3: inside of our brains, for sure, but sometimes by phenomena

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Speaker 3: that are in our larger environment. Give you an example,

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Speaker 3: if you are let's say, sleeping, and someone comes over

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Speaker 3: and caresses your forehead or something, well, that gets interpreted

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Speaker 3: by your brain as something other than someone literally coming

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Speaker 3: over and tickling your forehead and make it experienced by

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Speaker 3: you as the wind flowing through the backyard or a

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Speaker 3: bird flying in the distance. You will take that stimuli

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Speaker 3: that comes from outside of your brain, and your brain

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Speaker 3: will then take it and run with it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's truly remarkable. What do you think of psychic

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Speaker 2: or paranormal type dreams?

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Speaker 3: Oh, I profound only believe in it and that they've

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Speaker 3: experienced it. I've had my own experiences with recurring dreams,

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Speaker 3: of course, which everybody has time to sign. But also

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Speaker 3: on a few occasions I've had dreams that were uncanny

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Speaker 3: and appeared to be rudimentary, family oriented telepathic dreams. In fact,

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Speaker 3: I even wrote a large part of a book about

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Speaker 3: dreams that have a psychic aspect to it, you know,

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Speaker 3: a psychic Psychic experiences in dreams can appear in many

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Speaker 3: different ways. The most common one is telepathic that is

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Speaker 3: a communication of information one person to another in the

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Speaker 3: dream state. And one of the great explorers of that,

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Speaker 3: by the way, was none other than Sigmund Freud. He

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Speaker 3: acknowledged that he was very had mixed feelings about it.

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Speaker 3: He acknowledged it sometimes in later years he would back

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Speaker 3: away from it, then they come back I could reassert it.

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Speaker 3: Had very mixed feelings about it. But he himself also

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Speaker 3: had some telepathic dreams. He even had some unusual, somewhat

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Speaker 3: telepathic experiences with some of his patients.

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Speaker 2: My daughter had an incredible dream. I'll tell you about that.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, oh yeah. So telepathic dreams happen. We don't

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Speaker 3: quite know how they happen, but we do know that

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Speaker 3: they do happen. And sometimes dreams can be what's called precognitive.

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Speaker 3: You'll have an experience in a dream, an image or

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Speaker 3: a storyline, and a dream that will later on actually

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Speaker 3: manifest in the external reality of the physical and the

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Speaker 3: psychological and social world of others. So there's that telepathic

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Speaker 3: kind of dream. There's also a precognitive dream, and so

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Speaker 3: there are variations on the theme, including George, by the way,

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Speaker 3: including what's called this dreams. We don't do that as

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Speaker 3: much here in our culture because we have a sort

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Speaker 3: of prohibition about it. But when I say visitation dreams,

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Speaker 3: I mean with someone, usually a family member. Usually a

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Speaker 3: family member has passed on, but they appear in our

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Speaker 3: dreams and they communicate with us. That's called an ancestral dream.

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Speaker 3: Cultures that are much more open and permissive about that

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Speaker 3: understandably have many, many, many more of those kinds of

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Speaker 3: dreams for re each individual. That's certainly the case in India,

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Speaker 3: certainly the case in large parts of Africa and South America.

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Speaker 3: So a lot of it depends on the cultural filter,

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Speaker 3: the cultural situation that we're in that allows us to

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Speaker 3: go there. And if we say nope, nope, nope, then

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Speaker 3: we cut it off at the beginning and we don't happen.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, well, remember this date nine ten, two thousand

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Speaker 2: and one. That's the day my daughter called me and said, Dad,

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Speaker 2: I had the strangest dream. I was walking on the

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Speaker 2: streets of a big city, either Chicago, New York, that

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Speaker 2: type of city, and I looked up in the sky

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Speaker 2: and ash was falling on me, yes up to my

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Speaker 2: ankles as I was walking through the streets. I don't

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Speaker 2: know what that was, And I said, Wendy, I have

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Speaker 2: no idea what it was. The next day we see

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Speaker 2: pictures of nine to eleven with ash falling down from

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Speaker 2: the buildings, just like her dream.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's a precognitive dream.

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Speaker 2: How does that happen?

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Speaker 3: Nobody knows George. Nobody knows. All we know is that

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Speaker 3: it does happen.

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