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Speaker 1: On the Doe cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have in individualism the patriarchy? Zef and

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Speaker 1: Best start changing it with the beck Del cast. Jamie Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: I don't love you anymore. Okay, let's just bring literally,

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Speaker 1: let's just break up right now, end of movie. Let's

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Speaker 1: break up. Fine, do not bring me to a hotel room.

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Speaker 1: Let's not have a discussion. Actually, let's just break up. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: because I'm so out of love with you. You ruined

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Speaker 1: my life. You ruined my life. I know you didn't

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Speaker 1: mean to. It's complicated, but we should just break up. Deal.

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Speaker 1: I was going to be a doctor, Caitlin. So we're

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Speaker 1: both Michelle Williams in this role playing scenario, We're to Michelle.

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Speaker 1: That would be a fun blue Valentine. Where's one Michelle

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Speaker 1: Williams sabotaging the other Michelle Williams. Or if it was

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Speaker 1: Michelle Williams like Dawson's Creek Michelle Williams and Destiny's Child

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Speaker 1: Michelle Williams and they're in a relationship and they're a

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Speaker 1: sabotaging each other, I would love that movie. Where's that?

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Speaker 1: Where's that movie that said? This? God, this movie. I

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Speaker 1: just let's just break up. Let's just break up, and

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Speaker 1: let's not drag it out because our kid is so

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Speaker 1: cute and I want her to have you know, let's

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Speaker 1: let's just get her out of here. Yeah. God. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: it's the Blue Valentine episode. And this is the Bechtel Cast.

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Speaker 1: My name is Caitlin Drante, my name is Jamie Loftus,

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Speaker 1: And this is our podcast where we take a look

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Speaker 1: at your favorite happy and sad movies and look at

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Speaker 1: them using an intersectional feminist lens. But but hold on, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, Michelle. What is the Bechtel Test? Well?

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Speaker 1: It is a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel,

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Speaker 1: sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test. There are several different

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Speaker 1: variations on the test, but the one that we are

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Speaker 1: currently using is as far follows. Two people of any

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Speaker 1: marginalized gender have to have names, and they have to

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Speaker 1: speak to each other about something other than a man,

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Speaker 1: ideally for two or more lines of dialogue, and even

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Speaker 1: more ideally, it's a conversation that is narratively impactful. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's see how this one goes. We have a popular

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Speaker 1: request today. I'm actually very I mean, sky's the limit

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Speaker 1: in terms of upsetting things we could discuss today. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I'm very excited to get into it. We've been

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Speaker 1: getting this request for years. Blue Valentine movie written and

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Speaker 1: directed by Derek Cian France France. That was my best guess. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: very European, last name, don't really know. But then I

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Speaker 1: realized that I enjoy his work. He's Ryan Gosling's kind

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Speaker 1: of his his muse a little bit. Oh, I didn't

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Speaker 1: look up to see what else he has done. Well,

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Speaker 1: we'll get there. But he also so did Place Beyond

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Speaker 1: the Pines. I know this much is true. He did

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Speaker 1: the story for Sound of Metal. He's done a lot of, um,

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Speaker 1: broody guy stuff. He's a broody guy making stuff about

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Speaker 1: broody guys. And Blue Valentine was his first kind of

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Speaker 1: big movie. There's there's more to discuss there. We'll get there,

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Speaker 1: but let's get our guests in here. Certainly you have

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Speaker 1: an amazing guest today, we sure do. She is the

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Speaker 1: co host of Feeling Asian podcast. It's Young Mayor. Hi,

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Speaker 1: welcome are you hello? Welcome thanks for having me. I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited to talk about this movie. I have so

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Speaker 1: many thoughts. I literally can I'm like just foaming at

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Speaker 1: the mouth. Way is that sorry? I wasn't going to

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Speaker 1: point that out weird nineteen thirties phrase. Um No, I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited to get into this movie. And I was

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Speaker 1: just like thinking about all of the things that I

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about it, and like I just keep

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Speaker 1: remembering more and more things. But I didn't. I should

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Speaker 1: have known that the creator his name was Eric. He

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Speaker 1: does kind of have Derreck energy. Oh, Derek. We should

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Speaker 1: have known it was Derek. It don't even need to

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Speaker 1: change the B d E. It's big Derreck energy. Baby,

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Speaker 1: it has big Derrek energy. Yeah. Sorry, my cat is yelling.

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Speaker 1: So what is your your history, your relationship with this movie?

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Speaker 1: Young me? So, I have a very tumultuous relationship to

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Speaker 1: this movie, much like how the movie itself is like

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Speaker 1: tumultuous um. And I was like really thinking about why

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Speaker 1: it affected me when I watched it. And this was

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Speaker 1: two thousand and ten, was a year that I got married. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then I remember watching it and oh wow, this

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Speaker 1: is like maybe it's like super personal. But I love

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Speaker 1: being two over sharing, so please go for it. I

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Speaker 1: remember watching it and feeling a lot of those feelings.

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Speaker 1: And that was like the year that I got married,

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Speaker 1: like wanted the marriage to end, because I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: divorced now, but I had a lot of like a

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Speaker 1: lot of issues that I had to deal with mentally

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Speaker 1: and like through therapy, and like I came out the

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Speaker 1: other end. But this is when I was extremely young.

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Speaker 1: I think I was twenty two or twenty three at

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Speaker 1: the time, and I had him processed all these things.

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Speaker 1: And I remember around the same time, my other favorite

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Speaker 1: movie was this is not to sound like a film nerd,

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Speaker 1: but like, do you know that Igmar Bergman movie? Scenes

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Speaker 1: from a marriage? But there's like a bunch of them

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Speaker 1: because I think it was like a TV show at

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Speaker 1: some point or something. It's a series of movies. And

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Speaker 1: I loved those movies so much, which is another like

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Speaker 1: I'm unhappy in marriage, I want to divorce sort of theme, right.

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Speaker 1: But I started watching those movies as like a teenager,

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Speaker 1: and when I was a teenager, I was obsessed with

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Speaker 1: those movies. And I was like and I was like

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Speaker 1: trying to analyze myself. I think it's because I had

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Speaker 1: this like very toxic childhood where it was like they

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Speaker 1: call it emotional incests, which is a very strong term,

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Speaker 1: but basically it's like you do the role of like

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Speaker 1: what a mom would do in your family, right, right,

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Speaker 1: So like when I grew up, I had this sort

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Speaker 1: of relationship where I was the mom and my family

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Speaker 1: and I had to do things with my dad because

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Speaker 1: my mom just wasn't there, you know. And so I

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Speaker 1: think that's why I was like obsessed with this feeling

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Speaker 1: of being forced into this like unhappy union sort of thing,

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Speaker 1: which also, like right off the bat, I feel like

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Speaker 1: that's like very deep. But that's my relationship to this movie.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for sharing all that too. I

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Speaker 1: mean it's like this this movie brings ship out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh my god. Also, I was like the teenage girl

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Speaker 1: watching scenes from a marriage. I would have wanted to

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Speaker 1: be her friend in high school so bad. I would

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Speaker 1: have been like, right, well, she's not like other girls

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Speaker 1: like smoking cigarettes, yeah, smoking cigarettes and watching it and

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Speaker 1: like this is such a good movie. I love it.

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting at another table wearing a back brace like

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Speaker 1: young me so cool. No, we would have definitely been friends,

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Speaker 1: are you kidding me, we would have been at the

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Speaker 1: same table. I love your cat in this because I

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Speaker 1: have a very um like friendly cat and the cats.

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Speaker 1: I have two cats and they're always in my zoom meetings,

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Speaker 1: So I'm glad that you also have a very present cat.

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Speaker 1: He's he really likes to me. He's, you know, men

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Speaker 1: taking up too much space. But that's fleet. That's oh, Derek,

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Speaker 1: Oh Derek. I should have known. Yeah, please on the

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Speaker 1: floor defending Dean, being like was he not doing his best?

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Speaker 1: It's like, well, we'll talk about it. Um, Jamie, what

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Speaker 1: is your relationship with this movie? I've also been with

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Speaker 1: this movie from the beginning since it came out. I

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Speaker 1: saw it when I remember seeing it with a friend

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Speaker 1: when I was a teenager. This movie is so like

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Speaker 1: I actually, I mean, I think that there is a

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Speaker 1: lot to love about this movie, as excruciating as it is.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, I like, Derek, Derek kind of pulled

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Speaker 1: this one out. I really like. I don't love the

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Speaker 1: obviously the characteristics of time to talk about, but it

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Speaker 1: did so complicated and it was I like, well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't like watching this movie right because it's really

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Speaker 1: hard to watch. But I thought It was really interesting

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Speaker 1: coming back to this movie over ten years later and

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Speaker 1: how much I got out of it that I didn't

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Speaker 1: get out the first time, just because I was much

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Speaker 1: younger where I was like seventeen eighteen in this movie

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Speaker 1: came out, and the first time I watched it, I

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Speaker 1: think I identified much more strongly with the six year old. Uh.

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Speaker 1: That was like watching her parents marriage clearly not work.

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Speaker 1: There's all these like dynamics of you know, fun parent,

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Speaker 1: mean parent that are completely gendered, and you don't really

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Speaker 1: understand when you're that young, and so I really for

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Speaker 1: the child the first way through. Obviously I did the

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Speaker 1: second time, but now I'm like the age of the

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Speaker 1: characters and have been through relationships like this, and it's

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Speaker 1: so hard and so complicated, and god, I just like, oh,

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Speaker 1: Michelle Williams, just this was whatever personally because of where

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Speaker 1: I met in my life right now. This was a

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Speaker 1: very very difficult watch on the rewatch, but in a

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Speaker 1: way that I feel like means that the movie is good,

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Speaker 1: but oof out it hurt my feelings, and uh, I

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Speaker 1: also just really like some of the things that put

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Speaker 1: this movie in two thousand and ten, including the score

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Speaker 1: by the band Grizzly Bear, a band that I had

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Speaker 1: I haven't thought about since two thousand and ten. So

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Speaker 1: shout out to Derek, apparently because I wasn't expecting Derek

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Speaker 1: to get such a strong emotional reaction out of me

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Speaker 1: this time, but dere did it. He did the holy

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Speaker 1: sh it. Uh, Caitly, what's your history with Blue Valentine?

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Speaker 1: I had no history. I had never seen this movie before,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, any time it's ever been referred to,

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Speaker 1: I always got this movie confused with blue is the

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Speaker 1: Warmest color and the blue velvet, so like I would

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Speaker 1: hear Blue Valentine and I think people were talking about

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Speaker 1: blue Velvet usually, so that's my amazing relationship with it.

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Speaker 1: I would say that like hyper realistic, real world dramas

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Speaker 1: are my least favorite genre of film, so I tend

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Speaker 1: to avoid them. Not because I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: them are really well made movies and extremely like emotionally

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Speaker 1: affecting and effectively told stories, but I don't like movies

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Speaker 1: that make me feel my bad feelings. I like movies

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Speaker 1: that make me forget about my bad feelings, which is

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Speaker 1: why I watched almost exclusively Romps. But yeah, so, so

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Speaker 1: I had avoided this one, and um, I think it

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Speaker 1: will be an interesting discussion, especially on this podcast too,

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Speaker 1: because like we normally don't cover hyper realistic, character driven dramas,

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Speaker 1: there's an interesting discussion to be had. Yeah, there's a

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Speaker 1: time I was gonna say, there's the one other thing

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Speaker 1: that I remember about this movie that it's always so

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Speaker 1: bizarre where it's like this is not on the filmmaker

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Speaker 1: or the actors, but like the just like the weird

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Speaker 1: takeaways that people have from movies where I think, more

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Speaker 1: so than the story, what I most strongly remember as

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Speaker 1: a teenager saying this movie was the whole There was

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Speaker 1: a ton of drama around the kne lingas scene in

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Speaker 1: this movie. Like there I remember that drama. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it was like it brought out this is also so

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Speaker 1: two thousand ten, Like there was like a very early

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Speaker 1: proto meme like feminist Ryan Gosling, which is ridicul this

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Speaker 1: but what I mean, he is a feminist, but it's like, God,

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Speaker 1: the fact that we're like, how remarkable. But there was

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Speaker 1: like all this drama around this movie almost getting an

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Speaker 1: NC seventeen rating because it depicted him going down on her,

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Speaker 1: and it was this whole discussion Ryan gossling Um, to

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Speaker 1: his credit, was very outspoken about like that's fucking ridiculous,

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Speaker 1: like why why and that I feel like that was

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Speaker 1: like a big takeaway from this movie, even though it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: that's the last thing that this movie is about, Like

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Speaker 1: and then I feel like I vaguely remember that now

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Speaker 1: I totally forgot about that. I feel like now I

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Speaker 1: remember it was like very discussed. Yeah, I mean, and

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Speaker 1: I will say that's definitely, at least in the theater.

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Speaker 1: I think it's the first time I saw uh Man

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Speaker 1: going down on a woman in a movie. I'm pretty sure.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's representation that we still rarely get media.

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Speaker 1: Was he doing this in the movie? That thing? Did

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Speaker 1: he do that? He kind of does it a little.

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Speaker 1: Everyone listening, they don't have to see what, they know

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Speaker 1: exactly what I was doing. Men are like, wow, he's

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Speaker 1: really good at it. Yeah. So, I mean, it's like

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Speaker 1: I just I mean, I remember said I because I

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Speaker 1: saw this movie with like a new friend and we

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Speaker 1: sort of like, let's at each other, like okay, you know,

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Speaker 1: because it's like you just truly it makes me feel old.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it still doesn't happen in movies. Often, but

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Speaker 1: at the time I was like, Wow, holy sh it,

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Speaker 1: there's parents in this room. I don't remember that part

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Speaker 1: of the movie. Unfortunately, what I remember it very clearly.

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Speaker 1: I didn't rewatch it for this podcast because I remember

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Speaker 1: the movie so well, but I guess you don't. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me refresh your memory with a recap. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: we meet Dean and Cindy played by Ryan Gosling and

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Speaker 1: Michelle Williams. They are a married couple in Pennsylvania. Ever

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Speaker 1: heard of it? Shout out to my home state. Wow.

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Speaker 1: They have a young daughter named Frankie who is looking

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Speaker 1: for their dog, Megan, who seems to be missing. Wealth.

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Speaker 1: I mentioned a dog and your cat filipped out about it.

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Speaker 1: It was like, what about me um. The family seems

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Speaker 1: to have a pretty typical working class family situation dynamic.

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Speaker 1: Both of them are attentive parents, but we sense some

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Speaker 1: tension between Dean and Cindy. Cindy takes Frankie to school,

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Speaker 1: then she goes to work at a hospital where she

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Speaker 1: is a nurse. We see Dan at work. He paints houses.

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Speaker 1: We also see him drinking and driving. This is the

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Speaker 1: first hint will get of his alcohol abuse, and then

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Speaker 1: on the way home from work, Sydney spots their dog

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Speaker 1: Megan dead by the side of the road, which she

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Speaker 1: tells Dean about, who be rates and blames her for

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Speaker 1: the dog's death, and then this is the first hint

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Speaker 1: we see of his emotional abuse. They drop Frankie off

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Speaker 1: at her grandpa's I think Cindy's dad's place, yes, which

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Speaker 1: because we get more with him later a movie as

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Speaker 1: well in the flashbacks, this movie is told out of order.

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Speaker 1: Ever heard of it? Nonlinear Storytelling's a filmmaker, Derek's a writer.

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Speaker 1: I feel I'm like I do like Derek's work, not

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Speaker 1: me handing it to Derek, but sometimes you gotta hand

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Speaker 1: it to Derek. I had two brilliant observations while I

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Speaker 1: was watching this, one that this is the like way

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Speaker 1: more bummer version of Five Days of Summer in terms

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Speaker 1: of it's like nonlinear story telling about a relationship that

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Speaker 1: goes sour. And this movie is if before sunrise, before sunset,

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Speaker 1: and before midnight, we're all combined together and just like

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Speaker 1: told nonlinearly anyway, we still got to do those movies

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Speaker 1: on the show. Yeah, we'll do before member on the Matrio. Um, okay,

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Speaker 1: so they dropped Frankie off at Cindy's dad's place so

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Speaker 1: that Dean and Cindy can bury the dog without Frankie seeing.

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Speaker 1: Then we get a flashback of Dean. I think it's

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Speaker 1: like five years ish earlier. He has a full head

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Speaker 1: of hair because the Ryan Gosling hairpiece in this movie

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Speaker 1: is so goofy. I feel like they like shaved his

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Speaker 1: hairline way back so that you so that it looks

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Speaker 1: like it's receding because you can kind of tell that

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Speaker 1: it's shaved and then like thinned out, yes at the top. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they really make this character age like a president. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it's then it's still like Michelle right, she has

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Speaker 1: slightly shorter hair. But anyway, so we see Dean in

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Speaker 1: this flashback. He lives in Brooklyn. He gets a job

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Speaker 1: with a moving company. We see him move an old

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Speaker 1: man into a retirement home. We cut back to the present. So,

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Speaker 1: with Frankie gone for the night, Dean plans a little

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Speaker 1: romantic getaway for him and Cindy. He wants them to

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Speaker 1: get drunk and make love. Cindy is very reluctant to

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Speaker 1: do this, but Dean makes the reservation. Anyway. They stop

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Speaker 1: at a liquor store before heading out of town, where

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Speaker 1: Cindy runs into Bobby Ontario, someone who seems to be

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Speaker 1: an old flame of hers. And Bobby Ontario is a

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Speaker 1: horrible person. But I will say that is a great

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Speaker 1: character name, Bobby, Like that is such a fake movie

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Speaker 1: name that I burst out laughing when she's like, Michelle

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Speaker 1: Williams is in the liquor store, like, and most of

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Speaker 1: this movie is so grounded and normal, and then she's

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Speaker 1: like Bobby Ontario. I was like, are we in a

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Speaker 1: will Farrell movie? All of a sudden, what is Bobby Ontario? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: What is Keanu Reeves's character's name in point Break? It's

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Speaker 1: something like, oh yeah, it's jo Utah or Johnny Utah,

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Speaker 1: Johnny Utah. Bobby. Yeah, he does sound like his young

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Speaker 1: Ward Bobby on his young Canadian ward Bobby Ontario. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: fuck Bobby Ontario. But he sucks so bad she runs

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Speaker 1: into him and then she tells Dean about it, and

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Speaker 1: he does not react favorably. She gets very defensive. It's

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Speaker 1: clear that there's a lot of baggage here, which we

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Speaker 1: will learn about later. We then flash back to Cindy

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Speaker 1: in college when she was dating Bobby we see having

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Speaker 1: sex he finishes inside of her without protection, which really

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Speaker 1: upsets her um. And then also in a couple of

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Speaker 1: different flashbacks, we see Cindy visiting her parents and her grandparents,

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Speaker 1: and both of those sets of relationships are cold, distant, unhealthy,

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Speaker 1: or just like fully abusive. Cindy also visits her grandma

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Speaker 1: in a retirement home, the same one that Dean was

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Speaker 1: moving that man into earlier in the movie, and this

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Speaker 1: is where Cindy and Dean meet for the first time.

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Speaker 1: They chat a little bit. He implies that he wants

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Speaker 1: to take her out on a date, and he leaves

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Speaker 1: her his name and number. We then cut back to

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Speaker 1: the present. Cindy and Dean arrive at their hotel. Things

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Speaker 1: are tents. He wants to be close and intimate with her.

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Speaker 1: She's not having it. She isn't well. Also, there's so

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Speaker 1: much she doesn't even want to be there in the

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Speaker 1: first place. Whatever, we'll talk about this in the in

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Speaker 1: the main discussion, but it's so frustrating in a way

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Speaker 1: that I'm like, I wonder if I picked up on

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Speaker 1: this as much when I was a teenager. But to

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Speaker 1: watch him like keep pushing her on stuff, she doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to do because he thinks he's being romantic, where

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Speaker 1: it's like not just just listen to your partner, far

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Speaker 1: more effective way for your relationship to not fucking explode,

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Speaker 1: which is also like how they meet, Like he's very pushy. Right,

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Speaker 1: there's a whole scene word make a reference to the notebook.

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Speaker 1: But he's a very there's a pushy, pushy person. There's

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Speaker 1: a great I mean great, and by great, I mean

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Speaker 1: an upsetting story about that scene. Okay, there's yeah, we'll

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Speaker 1: get there, we'll get there, Okay, So she doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to be there. She's kind of rejecting him. They both

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Speaker 1: start drinking. Then we flash back to Cyndi Agan she

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Speaker 1: has broken up with Bobby, and then Dean is hoping

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Speaker 1: and waiting for Cindy to call. He goes back to

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Speaker 1: the retirement home to find out where Cindy lives from

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Speaker 1: her grandmother, which I don't love that. Her grandma's so

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Speaker 1: weird about it too, Like he's like, hey, who is

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Speaker 1: that girl? Can you tell me? And her grandma literally

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Speaker 1: is like, sure, put up a fight, Grandma. Grandma's be

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Speaker 1: boxing their grandchildren all the time. I can't believe it.

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Speaker 1: Who can you trust right, But then he happens to

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Speaker 1: bump into Cindy on the bus, so they get to talking.

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Speaker 1: We see some flashbacks where they're spending time together. He

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Speaker 1: sings her song with his uku Lele, and it seems

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Speaker 1: like they're falling in love. We then cut back to

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Speaker 1: the hotel room in the present. She tells him that

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Speaker 1: he's wasting his potential. He's like, well, all I wanna

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Speaker 1: do is just be your husband and Frankie's dad romanticizing

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Speaker 1: the issue again, I see Dean. He then tries to

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Speaker 1: initiate sex. He says he wants to have another baby

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Speaker 1: with her. She's still not into it. He gets upset.

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Speaker 1: He says, I deserve affection, and then they start to

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Speaker 1: have sex, but it goes horribly wrong, and then she

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Speaker 1: locks herself in the bedroom and then they both drunkenly

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Speaker 1: pass out. Another flashback of them when they're younger, first

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Speaker 1: having met, they're extremely horny for each other. They nearly

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Speaker 1: have sex on the sidewalk outside, they nearly have sex

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Speaker 1: in a taxi, and then they definitely have sex in

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Speaker 1: a bedroom. Then she takes a pregnancy test and discovers

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Speaker 1: that she is pregnant, and she sorry gregnant. She tells

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Speaker 1: Dean and reveals that the baby is not his. It

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Speaker 1: must be Bobbies. It's just it's a reference to it.

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Speaker 1: An amazing YouTube video that we also then reference constantly

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Speaker 1: on the show is the video where they're mispronouncing the

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Speaker 1: word pregnant like a million times. The Yahoo did I

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Speaker 1: get girl pregan announced also my favorite video of all times.

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Speaker 1: So it's so good. So she's she's, she's heavy with Greg,

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Speaker 1: she's she's she's got away growing inside, start going to

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Speaker 1: drop a Greg on the front stoop. So she so

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Speaker 1: it's it's Bobby's Greg unfortunately, and she goes through the

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Speaker 1: motions of having an abortion, but at the last minute

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Speaker 1: decides not to go through with the abortion. Dean comforts

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Speaker 1: her and he's like, let's just do this, let's just

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Speaker 1: be a family, implying that you know, he'll raise this

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Speaker 1: baby as his own. We cut back to the present.

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Speaker 1: Cindy wakes up in the hotel and leaves for work

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Speaker 1: without Dean and without telling Dean that she's leaving. So

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Speaker 1: then when Dean wakes up he sees that Cindy is gone.

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Speaker 1: He free out. He doesn't know what's going on. We

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Speaker 1: flashback again to Bobby, who has found out about Dean

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Speaker 1: being with Cindy, and he shows up at Dean's work

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Speaker 1: and beats the ship out of him. So now we

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Speaker 1: understand why Dean was acting that way when Cindy told

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Speaker 1: him about seeing Bobby in the store. Fuck Bobby Ontario.

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Speaker 1: Fuck Bobby Ontario's horrible. All the men in this movie are,

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Speaker 1: I mean, horrendous people. I'm just like, we have to

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Speaker 1: get we have to airlift Cindy and Frankie out of

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Speaker 1: this plotline. We gotta get them out of there, certainly.

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Speaker 1: Back in the present, Cindy is at work. Her doctor

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Speaker 1: boss makes an indecent proposal at her. Then Dean shows

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Speaker 1: up at Cindy's work. He's drunk. He berates her for

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Speaker 1: leaving him at the hotel. She tells him she can't

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Speaker 1: take it anymore. She's like, I don't love you anymore.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I hate you and I want a divorce.

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Speaker 1: They go to pick up Frankie. They hash things out,

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Speaker 1: or try to kind of. Dean wants to make this

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Speaker 1: relationship work, but Cindy recognizes that they can't stop treating

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Speaker 1: each other poorly, and she doesn't want that for herself

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Speaker 1: or for Frankie, and then we get one last flashback

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Speaker 1: of them getting married, and then the movie ends back

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Speaker 1: in the present with Dean crying, saying goodbye to Frankie

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Speaker 1: and then walking away. So why did I choose this movie?

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Speaker 1: It is so so rough. It is rough, but it's

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Speaker 1: worth talking about. And let's do that right after this

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Speaker 1: break and we're back where to begin? Oh, I was

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Speaker 1: just gonna say what I heard you saying that you

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Speaker 1: don't watch movies like this. It is like the anti

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Speaker 1: escapism movie. Truly, Sometimes I'm like, why do you? Why

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Speaker 1: do people make movies like this? I thought this was

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Speaker 1: all about tap dancing and putting lipstick on because it's

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Speaker 1: the great depression, you know, Like why why do I

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Speaker 1: don't know why I watched? Well, I have to say

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Speaker 1: it really did move me. It didn't make me feel

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Speaker 1: good or better about anything, but it did move me.

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Speaker 1: And like, right, I mean, movies like this, even though

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Speaker 1: they're like they don't align with my taste, I understand

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Speaker 1: why people like them because they they're very like validating,

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Speaker 1: especially if they like present authenticity and realism and like

423
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: actually meaningfully and authentically explore what it is to be human,

424
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 1: what it is to be in a relationship, you know,

425
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: whatever the movie's about. Like these movies that are done

426
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: well can be I don't know, just something that like

427
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 1: people can really relate to. I hate relating to things.

428
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: I just wanna watch people going on a bit quest

429
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: knowing that I'll never do that. It is very poetic.

430
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 1: I have to say. It is poetic and it's very

431
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: well done. Hats off to Derek. Yeah, so I will

432
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: give it that. Yeah. So the background for why this

433
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 1: movie exists is, uh, you're not gonna believe this. Dark's

434
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: parents are divorced, the worst thing that ever happened to Derek.

435
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: It sounds like it sounds like um, which is also

436
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: very twenty ten for you know, a guy to be

437
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: like my divorced parents and that how would that be

438
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: a personality? You know? Um? Anyways, I get it, you know, like,

439
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: you know, parents that get divorced, it's tough. But this

440
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: was like something that I guess Derek Seanne France was

441
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: trying to get this movie made for twelve years, had

442
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: Michelle Williams and Ryan Gosling attached to it for like

443
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: almost seven years. Like it just took a really really

444
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: long time to get made. Basically everyone in this movie

445
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: was also came from a messy divorced family, and so

446
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: there was like a collaborative aspect with the actors. There

447
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 1: are a bunch of writers. It sounds like a pretty

448
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: interesting like movie to make. And then also for Michelle Williams,

449
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 1: they had to move the location that they were shooting

450
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: in because Heath Ledger had just died right before they

451
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: started shooting this movie, and she wanted to be close

452
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: to their daughter obviously in the year that followed that.

453
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: And so there's just like all this really heavy trauma

454
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: collaboration that was going on with this movie that I

455
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 1: feel like, once, I don't know, once I knew that,

456
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, it kind of it's so sad.

457
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: And also I was just like, wow, it seems nice

458
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: that people had each other during this movie. I don't know,

459
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: it's it seems like everyone enjoyed making it as much

460
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: as you could enjoy making a movie this fucking depressing, right, Yeah,

461
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: I mean, where did oh with Caitlin? The thing I

462
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: wanted to tell you, So there's a scene in this

463
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: movie where Michelle Williams needs to tell around gossling. I'm

464
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: going to keep using the actors and names. Michelle Williams

465
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: needs to tell Ryan Gosling that she's pregnant, but she's like,

466
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: you know, she hasn't gotten it out yet, and he's like,

467
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: you gotta tell me, you gotta tell me, and he

468
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: like climbs onto the side of the is it the

469
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: Brooklyn Bridge? Like some bridge? He's threatening to jump off

470
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: a bridge if she doesn't tell him, which he does

471
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: in the Notebook when he hangs from a ferris wheel

472
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: unless Rachel mcadam's little Great to go out with him.

473
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: So you're like, why are Ryan Gosling characters always doing

474
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: this specific toxic thing threatening to take their own life

475
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: if they don't get an information nugget from a woman

476
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: right now? And the reason is because I think that

477
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: So that part was not written. I guess that Derek

478
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: was like, this is what needs to happen in the scene,

479
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: and they improvised it. So I think Ryan Gosling just

480
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: did it because he'd done it in a movie before,

481
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: Like that was Ryan Gosling's idea. I think he was

482
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: just like, oh, Bing Bung, I did this in the Notebook,

483
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: let me just do it right now. So that wasn't

484
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 1: even written it's just like I think he just it

485
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: was like I did this in two thousand four, because

486
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: the similarities are so striking that I was like, yeah,

487
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: is this a coincidence or no? I yeah, I thought

488
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: I assumed it was written and I was like, shame

489
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: on you, Derek. But then I I read and a

490
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: couple of interviews he did, did I guess that Ryan

491
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: Gosling was just like, oh, yeah, you know how characters

492
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: do this, and You're like, I don't, but whatever, your

493
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: fathers do this, and no one else you know how,

494
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: you were like it was a collaborative writing effort. I

495
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: feel like I feel like there's a part of Ryan

496
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: Gosling that likes to be like the like I'm gonna

497
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: kill myself you don't like like love me, or like

498
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get beat up by the football guy, you know,

499
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: like sort of emo. I don't know. I think that

500
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: that's probably his heavy hand in it is my guess. Yeah.

501
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like he was the one that chose

502
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: to jump on the side of a bridge. It sounds

503
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: like in that scene he could have remained on the ground.

504
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: It wouldn't have been a problem. That is such a

505
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: like Ryan Gosling character to think of, like this era

506
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: of Ryan Gosling. I don't really know. I'm like, when

507
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: was the last movie he was in. I mean that

508
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: brings up an interesting thought I guess I had about

509
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: I don't know how to wear this exactly, but like

510
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: more or less his masculinity or his version of masculinity

511
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: as it's presented in this movie, and then how that

512
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: kind of ties into the relationship in general, because like

513
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: during the climactic scene when they're breaking up in the

514
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: hospital and he's saying, like you want to hit me,

515
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: you want to hit me, and she's like, no, I'm not,

516
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: and then he's she's saying, like be a man, and

517
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: like there's all these I have to just like organize

518
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: my thoughts for a second here, because there's just so

519
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: much that happens. So A big thing that I talked

520
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: about on this podcast I fixate on how love and

521
00:31:54,080 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: romantic relationships are represented in movies, and we've conclude, rooted

522
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: on many episodes that most movies present a very cartoonish

523
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: and false depiction of romantic love, especially because most of

524
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: the movies focus only on the time between like the

525
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: meat cute, which is another thing in movies that is

526
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: usually pretty silly. But between the meat, the meat cute,

527
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: and the time where the couple officially gets together, and

528
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: then that's the end of the movie and we don't

529
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: see any of the relationship have a greg or something

530
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: like it becomes you only see the happy, right, So

531
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: this movie obviously shows the whole range of this relationship,

532
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: the meeting, the falling in love, the relationship getting rocky,

533
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: them falling out of love. And I'm not saying that

534
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: every relationship goes through this exact progression statistically. Statistically a

535
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: lot of them do. So I think that's fascinating, and

536
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: I do think there should be more movies like that,

537
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: because I feel like so many people have very realistic

538
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: expectations about romantic love because of what they see in movies.

539
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: So I think it's useful to have a movie like

540
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: this that like shows the after parts of like the

541
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: couple getting together and you know, that honeymoon phase kind

542
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: of thing. And it seems like in this movie in particular,

543
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: like Dean's character especially has been really affected by that

544
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: idea of romance and also has applied no critical thinking

545
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: to it to the point where he's like, if I

546
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: do this I deserve this versus love and trust being

547
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: something that you earn and requires listening to people and

548
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: not just doing things you've seen in movies because you

549
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: think that that will entitle you to someone's love and

550
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: time and commitment. And I and I the movie knows that,

551
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: I think, because the relationship fails due to him being

552
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: a horrible listener and a horrible communicator and doing things

553
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: that he thinks are romantic instead of listening to his partner.

554
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: I think the point that Caitlin made about showing the

555
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: end is probably why I like movies like this, because

556
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: they do feel so authentic and real, and it does

557
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: show this part where other movies just cut out because

558
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,280
Speaker 1: it's not part of the fantasy. But I also feel

559
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: like this movie that's like a good job, like I

560
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: think showing because the Ryan Gosling character that he likes

561
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: to play so much is like this toxic but very

562
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 1: romantic character of this like this man that's like I'm

563
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: going to jump off a bridge because I'm obsessed with you,

564
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: like sort of, and that's extremely romantic to watch in

565
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: a movie. But then we get to see the other

566
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 1: half of that, you know, it's like this person that's

567
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 1: like just not a good partner, and then what are

568
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: you gonna do? It's like it's almost like looking at

569
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: your teenage infatuation in fifteen years and he's a house

570
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: painter and he smokes a bunch of weed and like

571
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 1: he used to be like the guy playing the guitar

572
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: at party, but now, like, what what's going to happen

573
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: if you end up with this guy? You know, it's

574
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: like this like smashing that romantic idea of a toxic,

575
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: abusive partner, right, and like, um, which you brought up

576
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: the other most two thousand ten things about this movie,

577
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: which is The Ukulele Elephants. I didn't want to say it.

578
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: I said guitar, but I like the ukulele. I love it.

579
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,959
Speaker 1: I think it sounds really pretty. And if somebody played

580
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,720
Speaker 1: the ukulele to me, I'd probably be like, let's get married.

581
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: Maybe it's the song he sings is but it's so

582
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: foreshadowing of what their relationship is going to be, because

583
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 1: he's like, you always hurt the ones you love, and

584
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: it crumbles the relationship. He's like basically just like singing

585
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: the recap of what their relationship will be, so foreshadowing

586
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: much good job, Derek. Now there's this, there's some good

587
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: points and I'm there's that that. Yeah, the floor it

588
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 1: was a little heavy handed, Derek, but it's fine. Um.

589
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: And then like the hotel room being um. The theme

590
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: is like the future and I'm like, yeah, right, we

591
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 1: see it, we see it, we see what we did there.

592
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: It's so broody, but once you're in it, you're like, yeah,

593
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: exactly the future. Yeah, this relationship is so I mean,

594
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: I love how you like describe you like the romantic

595
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: guy that you don't really think about, like, well, what

596
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: is how is this going to bear out? Like? And

597
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: all the signs are there and that's kind of like

598
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: what I appreciate about this movie is like I feel

599
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: a worse written movie would be like he used to

600
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: be so great, but now he's awful. When it's like

601
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 1: the things that make their relationship fail on his end

602
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: are present from the moment they meet. It's the same person, yeah,

603
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: like and it's just framed in this like Halo at first,

604
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: and you don't. I do appreciate that this movie focuses

605
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 1: or on Cindy's background and the context for her than

606
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: it does on Dean, which I feel like it's kind

607
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 1: of rare in any movie. I feel like, usually you

608
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: get so much background about the man in a relationship

609
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: and relatively little about the movie. That's definitely not the

610
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: case here. But what you do learn about Dean, I

611
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 1: feel like it's you have all the context you need

612
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: for who and why he is in a way that

613
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 1: it's like he's a horrible partner. He is, you know,

614
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: clearly struggling with addiction and very in denial about it,

615
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: to the point where he's romanticizing his own addiction. He's like,

616
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: I get to wake up and drink a beer at

617
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 1: eight am? Aren't you so proud of me? Which, if

618
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: you've ever been in someone's life that's struggling with something

619
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: like that, that scene was like rough, yeah, yeah, do

620
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: you think that we Okay? So this is my question

621
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: because I remember watching the movie all those years ago

622
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: and sort of sympathizing with him. I mean because on paper,

623
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: when when we talk about it's like, yeah, he's abusive,

624
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 1: he has you know, alcoholism, and it's like he's not

625
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 1: a great partner. But I feel like I feel like

626
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: a lot of people will watch this movie and sort

627
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: of like feel bad for him and be like well,

628
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: what's so bad about this guy? He's so sweet and

629
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: yeah he has problems, but why is she so mean

630
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: to him? Do you like, do you think it's like

631
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: so yeah? And I think that's one of the reasons

632
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: this movie is an effectively written and told story is

633
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: there are aspects of his character that are very empathetic.

634
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: He's an extremely attentive and loving father to his daughter

635
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 1: that isn't even biologically his. I feel like a lot

636
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: of I mean men in real life and male characters

637
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: in movies would be like, oh, this kid isn't mine, well,

638
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: then screw you, I'm out of here. But he it's

639
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: like not even a thing. It's his idea for them

640
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: to like start a family together. There's this toxic idea

641
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 1: of like, oh, I'm being cooked. I'm not going to

642
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: raise someone another man's kid, and he doesn't. That's like

643
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: not on his mind at all. So he's also really

644
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,240
Speaker 1: supportive of her abortion. When she wants to get an abortion,

645
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: he's there, and then when she changes her mind, he's there.

646
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: And it's it's especially because you're given this context for

647
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: how men have treated Cindy previously that it's like, I

648
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 1: get why she falls for Dean, and also all of

649
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: the problems are there from the very beginning, and it

650
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: just what like ripped my heart up. Maybe want to

651
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: fucking fight Dean is. I mean, it's his idea. He

652
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: wants to stay, like you're saying, Caitlin, he wants to

653
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: be present in Frankie's life and he wants to be

654
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: her father. But he still does hold the fact that

655
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: Frankie's not his child against Cindy, and like hints at

656
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: in all these scenes where like there's I think it's

657
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: like that climactic fight where he's like, the only reason

658
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: that you're yelling at me is because I'm around, and

659
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 1: like is still holding it against his holding his own

660
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 1: decision against Cindy, which is like just incredibly immature and unfair.

661
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: And I kind of wonder you, I mean, I wish

662
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: I remembered like how this movie was received, because it

663
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: feels like it really lends itself to like someone to

664
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 1: people being overly sympathetic to his character. Ryan. Yeah, yeah,

665
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: I think so. I think there's a conscious decision on

666
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: Derek's part, maybe not conscious, maybe he doesn't even know

667
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 1: right that I think people are without knowing skew towards

668
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: feeling sorry for men, even if they're the problem. And

669
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: I think that without even knowing when I saw you know,

670
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: I have like worked through a lot of internalized misogynies

671
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: since then, obviously, but when I saw it, I was like,

672
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 1: and why is she like such a bitch? Like that's

673
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: a nice guy, and yeah, he is raising her kid.

674
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: And now I'm like, no, this is that, That's not

675
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 1: how it is at all. Like I had such a

676
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: different perspective. But then I also, like, I also you know,

677
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: identified with her because I was just like, every man

678
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 1: in my life is a fucking failure and I hate

679
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: them all, you know, and like I know why she's

680
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: fucking angry, because like I know how that feels, you know,

681
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: like great, now you're gonna act like you're the victim

682
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: when you're the man. That's like let me down again.

683
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: Like so it was like it was weird. It was

684
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 1: like a weird emotional thing for me. Yeah. Well I

685
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: think that speaks to how so many movies, so much media,

686
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: and then just like society in general asks us to

687
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: be empathetic toward men and forgiving and forgiving. Yeah, and

688
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: society gives men way more permission to make mistakes and

689
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,320
Speaker 1: treat people poorly. And I think a lot of people

690
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,959
Speaker 1: don't even perceive men's mistakes and their bad behavior as

691
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: being wrong or bad. People just view it as, oh,

692
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: that's just what men are, like, like it's the whole

693
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: boys will be boys thing, because yeah, historically, we've given

694
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: men so much permission to be shitty and women have

695
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 1: not been given that same permission. Those standards are very different.

696
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,959
Speaker 1: I do think that I don't think that the movie

697
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: is necessarily asking us to take sides, but I do

698
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 1: think I think that it serves as kind of an

699
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: interesting mirror for where you're at when you Yeah, I agree,

700
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: thinking back on it, I don't. I think that it

701
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: was made well to show like a very unbiased, sort

702
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 1: of realistic view, but it is a mirror on myself

703
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: and who I used to be baby totally, because I

704
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: was like, I did feel bad for him. I was like,

705
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: why did I feel bad for that guy? I don't know,

706
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: reme feeling bad for him too, and then being like

707
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: the same thing of like we whatever, like it's it

708
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 1: is a beautiful thing that he wanted to raise Frankie,

709
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: but you can't. You know, it's so frustrating to watch

710
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: him throw that in her face as if she asked

711
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 1: for it when she didn't. She like, there's like that

712
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 1: scene explicitly after she decides not to get the abortion,

713
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: where this is his idea and she says, you don't

714
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 1: have to do this and he says, I want to.

715
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,720
Speaker 1: Let's be a family, and it's like, well, that's it, Dean,

716
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: you made this decision, and it's just I don't know. Yeah,

717
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: this movie is so tough because you're like, you, guys,

718
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: can we wait, wait, can we talk about the abortion

719
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 1: scene really quick? Because I know, I know that's a

720
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: trope and I'm assuming you've covered it on this podcast before,

721
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: But the the abortion clinic, we're going to go to

722
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: the clinic and lay down in the bed and then

723
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,959
Speaker 1: be like, I can't do it. It's a baby like that.

724
00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: Come on, so I that's too much. Wish we the

725
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: audience had a better understanding of why she changes her

726
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: mind and decides not to go through with the abortion,

727
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: because it seems almost like in the scene as you're

728
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: watching it, she just like can't handle the physical pain

729
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: and that's why she stops it. But it's probably more

730
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: than that. She just decides to keep the baby after all,

731
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 1: but we don't really check back in with her about

732
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: why she changes her mind because we talked about this

733
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 1: on like the Juno episode and like other episodes where

734
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: like it is such a common troll. They give you

735
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 1: a reason in that movie, but the reason is sucks,

736
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 1: and it's kind of anti abortion in general, right that

737
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,919
Speaker 1: movie we wash our hands of it. Uh. And then

738
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 1: like the way that the abortion is represented. And I've

739
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: been fortunate enough to not have to go through with

740
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:52,240
Speaker 1: an abortion myself, but I imagine it's not the most

741
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: pleasant thing, and I think the movie probably pretty realistically

742
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: depicts the experience of it. So on one hand, I

743
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,760
Speaker 1: appreciate the authenticity there, but I also worry that people

744
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: would see this movie and like them away. Yeah, that

745
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: they would it would scare them away from having an abortion,

746
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: especially because she like seems to be in a lot

747
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: of pain she changes her mind made procedure. So I

748
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: have really mixed feelings about the abortions. So I've had

749
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: an abortion and I'm very you know, open about it,

750
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: and I'm very anti how the media in America shows

751
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 1: abortions because I think it's so dramatic and so over

752
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: the top and ridiculous because it's always like this thing

753
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh my god like that. But I'm

754
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 1: gonna be very honestly, I had an abortion. I didn't.

755
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: I didn't give a ship. I was like, look the dude,

756
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: like I got an abortion, who gives a fuck? You know?

757
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,240
Speaker 1: And I was just like and it took four minutes

758
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: and I felt fine. The next night I was I

759
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: was like twenty years old. I was probably like in

760
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: a nightclub or whatever. And I just feel like, yes,

761
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: it's valid that some people do have that reaction to

762
00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: having an abortion and the feeling of like being put

763
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: in this hard place where they have to do something

764
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 1: they don't want to do whatever. But a lot of

765
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: people just don't. It's not moving and deeply don't believe

766
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 1: that it was a baby and it wasn't a baby,

767
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 1: and it was just like something that I had to do,

768
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: like getting wax or something. And it doesn't do you

769
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: know what I mean. I hate that idea that in America,

770
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: every single time you see an abortion in a movie,

771
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: every single there's not even without one exception. It's like, oh,

772
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: like it's like like it's such a big dramatic thing

773
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 1: because for some people it just isn't that, And like

774
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 1: we do need, like I think we need like more

775
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: representation of people that are just like, yeah, I went in,

776
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: it took four minutes, and now I'm having a cocktail

777
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 1: with my friend, like, you know, totally, that's an amazing point. Yeah,

778
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 1: there's nothing available there, especially when it's a movie made

779
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: by like a male tour like this too, where it's like, well,

780
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: where do you get off Derek, you know, telling us

781
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,399
Speaker 1: that this is the most traumatic thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

782
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,240
Speaker 1: people process things differently, and and like, if you truly

783
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: believe in abortion being you know, it's like a right

784
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: that women should have with their bodies, Like you should

785
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: really start to process it in a way that it's

786
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: not killing a baby. Come on, like it's it's not

787
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: that at all. It's just a routine medical procedure. Yeah,

788
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 1: And there's like no range of experience shown. Yeah, thank

789
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: you for bringing that up to because I feel like

790
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: we we've talked about that on the show, but like

791
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: not enough. And and unfortunately it's like I think that

792
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: this also was the first this movie I guess was

793
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,320
Speaker 1: more first for me than I'm realizing, because it was

794
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: the first time I saw a guy go down on

795
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: a girl in a movie. And it was also the

796
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: first time I think that I saw an abortion in

797
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: a movie. And Caitlin, You're totally right. There's no real

798
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: reasoning given, even though for what I've like, I found

799
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: like conflicting opinions on this scene where some people don't

800
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 1: like it and I started for the reasons you're describing

801
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 1: young me, and then there's other people who are like.

802
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: The thing that they like about it is the second

803
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: that Michelle Williams character is like, I don't want to

804
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 1: do this, that the doctor is immediately like okay, I'm sorry,

805
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: and then like immediately end the procedure. That was great, too,

806
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: fun terrible. Fact, the doctor that plays the abortion doctor

807
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: in the movie is a real abortion doctor, or should

808
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: I say was, because he has since been he's no

809
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: longer an abortion doctor due to malpractice. So that's what

810
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 1: you know, what a what a world. Let's take a

811
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: quick break and then we'll come back for more discussion,

812
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 1: and we're back. I want to jump back to the

813
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: relationship between Cindy and Dean because you know, we've been

814
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 1: talking about, especially as it relates to like the empathy

815
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:09,720
Speaker 1: that some viewers have had toward Dean and how again,

816
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: like because so many people are conditioned to see a

817
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 1: character like Cindy because she's the more I mean, let's

818
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: face it, she's the responsible parent here, like she's the

819
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 1: she's the disciplinarian. And we've talked a lot on the

820
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: show about how the disciplinarian parent, if there is kind

821
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 1: of like that type of dynamic where it's like the

822
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 1: fun parent and the quote unquote mean parent and it's

823
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 1: almost always depicted is like the quote unquote mean one

824
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: is the mom. And it took me personally because I

825
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: my I get well, my family dynamic wasn't even like that,

826
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:47,439
Speaker 1: but it was just like I had a mean parent

827
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: and then a parent who was completely unattentive. But my

828
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 1: dad didn't yell at me, so I liked him better

829
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: at the time, but he just didn't yell at me

830
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: because he didn't engage with me at all, is what

831
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: I now realize what's happened. But my mom was the disciplinarian,

832
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 1: so I thought she was mean and so much media

833
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,359
Speaker 1: and I don't think this movie actually does that. I

834
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: think it is pretty objective in the way that it

835
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:15,320
Speaker 1: presents these two people, but it's like just our personal

836
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:19,439
Speaker 1: baggage that we bring into the movie. But I think

837
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 1: this movie again presents the characters pretty objectively. I think

838
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: it contextualizes, especially Cindy and her life and her backstory meaningfully.

839
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: And I think the movie does a pretty good job

840
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: at depicting spousal abuse or mistreatment. Um where again, in movies,

841
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 1: spousal abuse is often very oversimplified and presented in a

842
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:53,959
Speaker 1: pretty cartoonish way, where it's like the man comes home

843
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:58,760
Speaker 1: drunk and hits his wife. There's rarely context, there's rarely

844
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:02,760
Speaker 1: any additional information of out the relationship. We just see

845
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: this kind of like one dimensional like guy comes home

846
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: and hits his wife a girlfriend, and some abusive relationships

847
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: are partially that, but there are often other dimensions to

848
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 1: the relationship, where like, sometimes an abusive relationship is loving

849
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 1: and supportive. Sometimes the couple does get along with each

850
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: other and laugh with each other and enjoy each other's company.

851
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: And yes, so I think this movie does a good

852
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: job of presenting that kind of more nuanced and realistic

853
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:39,760
Speaker 1: version of a relationship where both people are not treating

854
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 1: each other well. And like, you know, I don't I

855
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 1: don't want to make it seem like oh, well, the

856
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: man is a horrible one in this relationship and the

857
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 1: woman is a pure angel who's like doing everything right.

858
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 1: Like they're not treating each other well, but we understand

859
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:55,959
Speaker 1: we have all the context as to why, like she's

860
00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 1: not treating him well because she's frustrated by her and

861
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 1: being pushy and and so for her it's a lot

862
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: of just like built up resentment and frustration. All this

863
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,919
Speaker 1: to say that it's just like it's not the very

864
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 1: like kind of one dimensional, cartoonish version of abuse and

865
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: mistreatment that we often see depicted in media. It's so

866
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,320
Speaker 1: interesting hearing both of you, like right off the bat

867
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: point out the abuse because I didn't even think it

868
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,919
Speaker 1: was abusive when I first saw it. Now I'm like, yeah,

869
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 1: this man is definitely abusive. For me, I was just like,

870
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,399
Speaker 1: this is just like a real relationship, you know, um,

871
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: And now looking it just shows just shows me how

872
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 1: much I've like I learned. I feel like since I've

873
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: seen this movie twelve years ago, totally totally. I mean

874
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:49,879
Speaker 1: I don't think I would have, you know, seen seen

875
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 1: his behavior as abuse when I first saw it either. Yeah,

876
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 1: I feel like and I feel like the way it

877
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:55,879
Speaker 1: was presented at the time, and again it's like it's

878
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: so tough because I feel like so much of what

879
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,760
Speaker 1: I took in about this movie was other people's reaction

880
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 1: to it versus just watching the movie. And it is

881
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 1: kind of like like we're saying kind of like a

882
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 1: mirror movie in a lot of ways. But yeah, I mean,

883
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: I feel like that was not the discussion around this

884
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: movie at all. It was like life is tough, relationships

885
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 1: are hard, and you're like, yeah, but also there's clear

886
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 1: abuse in a way that I don't know, I'm kind

887
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:27,359
Speaker 1: of I I appreciate how much care is taken by

888
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 1: the movie to contextualize Cindy's attitude towards men and relationships.

889
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: I do feel like it like possibly gets a little

890
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:43,399
Speaker 1: trauma porny for my taste because it's Derek writing the movie, right,

891
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: and like so you're like, okay, Like I think he

892
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 1: did have at least one woman who co wrote the

893
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: movie with him. Yeah, we've got Cammie de Lavine is

894
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 1: maybe how you pronounce her name, and then Joey Curtis

895
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: plus Derek all co wrote, all have writing credits on

896
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 1: this script. And I know that, like Michelle Williams like,

897
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: even though she's not a creditive writer, had a lot

898
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:11,720
Speaker 1: of input on her character, and like, it wasn't just Derek,

899
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,359
Speaker 1: but I mean, they're they're every I mean every man

900
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 1: in Cindy's life completely fails her, which unfortunately is not

901
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,439
Speaker 1: the most uncommon experience. We haven't quite talked about this yet,

902
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: but I also appreciate that this movie takes place in

903
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 1: like the working class, which romance movies never ever do.

904
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: It's still obviously an extremely white movie, but the fact

905
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 1: that it's a romance that's being taken seriously in the

906
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 1: working class at all, unfortunately, is like worth noting. But

907
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,240
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of all the men in Cindy's

908
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: life that we get context for it, we get context.

909
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 1: One of the really difficult ones that I feel like

910
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 1: the movie almost doesn't touch on that much because it

911
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:56,280
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily need to, is like her relationship with her father,

912
00:54:56,560 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: because her father was abusive towards her mother, who I

913
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 1: think has died by the time the movie starts. And uh,

914
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:10,800
Speaker 1: it's clear that like poor like Cindy has seen her

915
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 1: grandmother be in a loveless marriage with her grandfather, has

916
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:18,839
Speaker 1: seen her mother be abused by her father, and her

917
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: takeaway is like, I don't want to be in a

918
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 1: relationship like that, But she's a teenager and still hasn't

919
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:28,360
Speaker 1: really like quite processed that abuse by the time she

920
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 1: gets into a relationship with Dean, and then it's like

921
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: I wish I knew, like what the reasoning for this is.

922
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 1: I don't dislike the choice, but like my guess was

923
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,720
Speaker 1: that it had to do with partially like she hadn't

924
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: she hasn't processed everything, and partially sometimes it's like a

925
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:50,800
Speaker 1: class thing where her dad is still in her life

926
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: because she kind of needs his help with childcare, and

927
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:57,439
Speaker 1: it's like she fully knows that, like he was a

928
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 1: piece of ship to her mother, and you don't really

929
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: get closure on that issue, but he's still around, and

930
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 1: it's like and she also is taking care of him

931
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 1: now the way that it seems like she's taking care of,

932
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 1: you know, her grandmother, Like she's taking care of people

933
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 1: her whole life, and now it's like she's also taking

934
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:18,399
Speaker 1: care of Dean because she keeps bringing up like you're

935
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: my second child, which he basically is. And then there's

936
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: how Bobby treats her, and that's like Bobby, I feel

937
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 1: like it's as close to we get as a clear

938
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 1: cut villain because he's kind of like like he's a

939
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 1: villain jock. I feel like it's as close to a

940
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 1: stock character as we get in this movie. And his

941
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:39,919
Speaker 1: abuse toward her is so much more like obvious than

942
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 1: Dean's abuse. So I can understand why people like especially

943
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 1: in wouldn't have picked up on a lot of Dean's

944
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:50,879
Speaker 1: behavior as abusive because it's far more subtle and it's

945
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: not the like screaming belligerent like fuck you bitch, which

946
00:56:55,600 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 1: is like what Bobby says to Cindy. So, Bobby Ontario,

947
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:03,839
Speaker 1: you know what I think Dean's character is. Okay, this

948
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 1: is how I'm processing this. So, like Bobby Ontario is

949
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:13,799
Speaker 1: the classic like misogynists, like oh, like sports jock person, right,

950
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 1: and then you know, like when you're like in high school,

951
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, here's like the emo skateboarder guy that's

952
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 1: like not like those other guys. He's like a musician

953
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: and he's sensitive and he where's eyeliner. But then he

954
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 1: ends up just being another misogynist, but in a different

955
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 1: like yeah, he's an alto misogynists. He's all he's not

956
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: like the other studded belt. Yeah, he's not like the

957
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 1: other Like he's skateboards. You know. It's it's like when

958
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 1: you were in high school and you're like, oh, the

959
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 1: skateboarder guys are like artsy, they're going to treat me

960
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: with respect. But it's just like it's just another brand

961
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 1: of And I feel like Ryan Gosling is just that

962
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 1: caricature in this movie. And so you're like tricked into

963
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 1: being like, well, he plays the ukulele and he he's

964
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: in love with me and blah blah blah. And then

965
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: at the end you're like, wait, this is the same

966
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: this is the same thing. It's his Bobby Ontario, the

967
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 1: same guy. Yeah, he's he's just like a sensitive misogynists.

968
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 1: Like we see him cry over the death of their dog.

969
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 1: Maybe that's what we should call this Ryan gosling stock character,

970
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 1: the sensitive misogynist, because I feel like that is kind

971
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:20,959
Speaker 1: of like who he is, ULTI misogynists. It's like the Yeah,

972
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a lot of memes about that character. Now,

973
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 1: like the guy that wears nail polish and then he

974
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:30,479
Speaker 1: still punches a hole in your drywall, but he's wearing

975
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 1: mail polished. So we see him punch a bunch of

976
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 1: walls or like a fence, Like he never takes his

977
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: physical aggression out on Cindy, but he's he's like, does

978
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 1: punch a bunch of like inanimate objects. He's got rage issues.

979
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: And also he keeps, oh god, this is unfortunately something

980
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: that is like come up for me in relationships in

981
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: the past. Word Like he's like patting himself on the

982
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 1: back for not hitting her. That seven where he's like,

983
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 1: I'm not going I hate you because I love you.

984
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 1: I'm like, what do you want to fucking metal? Like,

985
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:08,920
Speaker 1: thank you the lowest bar imaginable. Good for you. He's like,

986
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 1: I'm I'm staying with you. Like it's like or don't

987
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 1: or don't I have to? Can I just say what

988
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 1: I was gonna say about what you were saying about class?

989
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 1: That's such a good point, Jamie, Like that is so

990
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:25,200
Speaker 1: because you never see it on screen, and with the

991
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 1: with the backdrop of class, all these things make sense,

992
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 1: Like your dad's abusive, why are you hanging out with him?

993
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 1: Because I'm fucking poor? Like what I'm fucking poor? I

994
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 1: need my dad in my life, Like I can't just

995
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: like go to Italy for five months or whatever. You know. Um,

996
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 1: But like, also the class thing is interesting, and also

997
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 1: what it reminds me of is like something like my

998
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:52,120
Speaker 1: mom would tell me, because I think the divorce thing

999
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people. You know, I was joking about

1000
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 1: Derek's family being divorce and that sad, but like that

1001
00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 1: is very traumatizing to people if your parents get the

1002
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 1: vor But my parents didn't get divorce and they had

1003
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 1: a really horrible marriage and they're still together, and that

1004
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 1: was like a different kind of trauma. And like the

1005
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 1: level of sadness and darkness that's in this movie is

1006
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 1: their relationship. It's like the scene where they're yelling at

1007
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 1: the future hotel room is like their everyday to life,

1008
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean. But then also what

1009
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: it reminds me of is like my mom is like

1010
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 1: because you know, like what you're saying about in the movie,

1011
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 1: like her grandma had this and then her mom had this.

1012
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 1: Like every generation back in my family had it worse

1013
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 1: than the next generation. So like when I was married,

1014
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 1: my my marriage was like I mean, there was like

1015
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 1: probably abusive things that we would do to each other,

1016
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 1: but it was there was no real, like outright abuse.

1017
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 1: It just was a marriage that didn't work, do you

1018
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 1: know what I mean? And my mom was just like,

1019
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 1: why are you getting divorced? He doesn't hit you, he

1020
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 1: doesn't have a gambling problem. And I was like, so,

1021
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 1: you know, like it's like and I'm like, well, because

1022
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 1: our marriage doesn't work, like we were not like in

1023
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 1: love with each other, and why does somebody have to

1024
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 1: like break your arm before? You know, like it's like

1025
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 1: hard bore. So. But my mom also, you know, like

1026
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 1: really really poor and like because of class, Like she

1027
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:14,919
Speaker 1: even if she wanted to leave, she couldn't and she

1028
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 1: didn't end up leaving. And they're okay now, but you know,

1029
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 1: like that it's like, that's such an interesting thing that

1030
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 1: you brought up, because I feel like people don't talk

1031
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 1: about that in movies. Yeah. And then speaking of class,

1032
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 1: so director Derek had Ryan Gosling and Michelle Williams lived

1033
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:38,520
Speaker 1: together in rural Pennsylvania in a house with their on

1034
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 1: screen daughter, who was again just a five year old

1035
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:47,480
Speaker 1: kid um and basically gave them a very minimal grocery budget.

1036
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 1: They had to live on what the actual character's salary

1037
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 1: would have been, so caused playing as poors, how ext

1038
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 1: basically or oh my god, Derek made them go very

1039
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 1: method to basically enhance the tension between them when they

1040
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 1: shot all of the scenes that take place in the present,

1041
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 1: including something that I think is extremely fucked up where

1042
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 1: director Derek he like initiated fights between them and so

1043
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: the actors would like fight in real life. And then

1044
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 1: one night he quote told Gosling to go into Williams's

1045
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 1: bedroom and try to make love to her. Oh my god,

1046
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 1: Gosling soundly rejected, ended up sleeping on the couch. So

1047
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:40,480
Speaker 1: director Derek was like, hey, Ryan Gosling, go try to

1048
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 1: have sex with Michelle Williams, your co star, who's also

1049
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 1: actively warning the death of her husband. Like that's up

1050
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 1: to do. That's up to do, period, but like at

1051
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 1: that point in her life. I read that interview as

1052
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 1: well and like that is fucking evil. And he also

1053
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 1: mentions Stanley Koprick and same interview as if that's like

1054
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 1: a pro of Like, well, yeah, Stanley Cooper used to

1055
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 1: do this to his stars. You're like, yeah, and that

1056
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 1: was really fucked up. Why are we speaking about you

1057
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 1: know what, I stand by everything shitty I said about Derek.

1058
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: I don't take any of it back. I do like

1059
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 1: this movie, but that's like a fun that's not necessary.

1060
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 1: It's not necessary. They're good actors, you're actors. They can

1061
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 1: add that is so funny. But the cause playing as poor.

1062
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 1: It's like, imagine you only have seventy dollars to go

1063
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:33,480
Speaker 1: grocery shopping and they're like, I can't do this, it's

1064
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 1: too hard, and that is like that. That to me

1065
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 1: is like super annoying. But it's like if everyone's on

1066
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 1: the same page about it, then whatever. But like that

1067
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:45,520
Speaker 1: anecdote about trying to get Ryan Coussling to go in

1068
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:48,680
Speaker 1: her bedroom, I found, oh my god, very upsetting. I

1069
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:53,960
Speaker 1: fucking hated it. Derek, Derek, Derek. I hope he's listening.

1070
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 1: He's going to listen to this. He's a definitely listening.

1071
01:03:57,080 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 1: He's our biggest fan. Speaking of all of the men

1072
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 1: in Cindy's life who completely fail her, her boss this

1073
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 1: doctor guy. So we get a few different scenes with

1074
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 1: him throughout the movie, and the arc here is basically

1075
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 1: he's offering her an opportunity. It's some other hospital, it

1076
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 1: seems kind of far away, and then she eventually figures

1077
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 1: out that he has ulterior motives with this Basically he's

1078
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: trying to get her away from her family because he

1079
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 1: wants to date her. Why do we think so many

1080
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: women who are perfectly capable of imposter syndrome, Well, exactly

1081
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 1: like this. She even says like, I thought you wanted

1082
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 1: me there because I'm good at my job, and then

1083
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 1: he's just like, okay, I'll see you in the other room.

1084
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:50,440
Speaker 1: And then what happened shortly after this is her belligerent

1085
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: husband comes in and punches this doctor in the face.

1086
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:55,960
Speaker 1: So then she has to like help and care for

1087
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 1: this guy who just made this indecent proposal at her

1088
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 1: and then he fires her. Just everything that happens there

1089
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 1: was like, I mean, realistic, but extremely upsetting and just

1090
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 1: further proof that she's just like has the misfortune of

1091
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: every man who she knows or has known being awful

1092
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 1: to her. And this goes back to the class discussion too,

1093
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 1: because it's like one of the last scenes in the

1094
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:29,600
Speaker 1: movie is a flashback to the first time she brings

1095
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 1: home Dean to her family, and the family has all

1096
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:36,480
Speaker 1: of this missing context. They don't know that she's pregnant,

1097
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 1: they don't know that it's not Deans. They're clearly judging

1098
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:43,959
Speaker 1: Dean based on his job and class in a way

1099
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 1: that's not necessarily fair, but there's it was something that

1100
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:52,280
Speaker 1: like I don't know, I remember from if I ever

1101
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 1: brought up a boy home when I was young, is like,

1102
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 1: especially when you're sort of like Cindy is very much

1103
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 1: viewed as like the hope of her family and the

1104
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:06,400
Speaker 1: first a character who I mean, she is extremely intelligent,

1105
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 1: and she does seem passionate about medicine, and there are

1106
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 1: all like Dean is a large factor to why her

1107
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 1: career is derailed, but he's not the only factor, and

1108
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 1: like that is also complicated, but it's clear that her

1109
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 1: family views her as like the person that's going to

1110
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 1: like not die in the class she was born in

1111
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 1: and like has all this potential and like, of course

1112
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:29,800
Speaker 1: they're kind of clinging to that in a way that

1113
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 1: puts pressure on her. And it's just that element as well.

1114
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:37,200
Speaker 1: And then the fact that like, including the reason you

1115
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 1: just describe Caitling with this fucking horrible boss that is

1116
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:43,760
Speaker 1: hitting on her and then fires her for reasons that

1117
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 1: are beyond not her fault, is just like it's so

1118
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:54,000
Speaker 1: devastating because that ship happens, and oh god, that scene

1119
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 1: is so frustrating because it's like it's in that scene

1120
01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:59,560
Speaker 1: too where it's like Dean punches the doctor in the face.

1121
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:01,160
Speaker 1: You're like, well, I want the doctor to get punched

1122
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 1: in the face, but not like this, Like he's not

1123
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 1: even punching someone in the face for the right reason.

1124
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 1: She gets like punished for all the failures of all

1125
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 1: the men around her. Basically, yeah, again, unfortunately a relatable

1126
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:20,840
Speaker 1: experience for women, but doesn't make it any easier to watch. Also,

1127
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 1: one of the ways in which Dean is like subtly

1128
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 1: mistreating her throughout the movie is it so like she

1129
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:32,320
Speaker 1: has aspirations to be a doctor. We know that she

1130
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:35,439
Speaker 1: doesn't end up there. She um gets a job as

1131
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:37,640
Speaker 1: a nurse. I like to think she does after they

1132
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 1: get divorced school, right, but she when when we see

1133
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 1: the flashbacks of her in college, she is planning to

1134
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 1: be a doctor, and then Dean says to her like, basically,

1135
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 1: you're too hot to be a doctor, girls, is pretty

1136
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 1: as you shouldn't be doctors, you shouldn't be studying. And

1137
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 1: she comments on this type of thing that he says

1138
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:01,440
Speaker 1: to her because he does it for where he like

1139
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 1: compliments her quote unquote actually more insults her, but it's

1140
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 1: it's like a half compliment half insult where he says, Oh,

1141
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 1: you're so beautiful, that must mean that you're also like

1142
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:17,880
Speaker 1: quote unquote crazy. He says, I'm a sensitive misogynist. I know.

1143
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:20,920
Speaker 1: It's so frustrating, and she calls him out on it

1144
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:22,840
Speaker 1: too in that moment, but it's still like it's not

1145
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:26,160
Speaker 1: quite enough. She's like, you're insulting me and complimenting me

1146
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:29,000
Speaker 1: at the same time, and he's like, I'm not, like

1147
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:33,000
Speaker 1: fuck and like, yeah, that this seems to be something

1148
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:36,320
Speaker 1: that he did. I also got the sense that, um,

1149
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 1: she's resentful of him because he's wasting his potential. And

1150
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 1: I think that's also her being resentful because she I

1151
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 1: think kind of blames him for her also squandering her

1152
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:51,760
Speaker 1: potential because she kind of blames him for holding her

1153
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 1: back and like for her like never becoming a doctor.

1154
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:57,760
Speaker 1: I agree with that. Yeah, there's definitely some projection going

1155
01:08:57,760 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 1: on in this relationship. That's the word I was trying

1156
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 1: to say. One thing I wanted to bring up really quick,

1157
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: just before we completely move on from that kind of

1158
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:11,360
Speaker 1: peak confrontation scene at the doctor's office. This is a

1159
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:15,599
Speaker 1: small thing. But I appreciated it having it there because

1160
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:18,400
Speaker 1: we don't get to see I mean, as we'll discussed shortly,

1161
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,639
Speaker 1: we don't get to see Cindy interact with other women

1162
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 1: outside of her grandma very much. It doesn't seem like

1163
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 1: she has a big network of friends, so to see

1164
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:32,759
Speaker 1: in that scene she has. I think that she's named

1165
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 1: as well, that these interactions don't pass the Backel test

1166
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:37,560
Speaker 1: because they're all like, let's get Ryan gossling in the

1167
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:41,840
Speaker 1: funk out of here. But she has a coworker who

1168
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 1: it's clear she's spoken to about the abuse in the

1169
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:48,880
Speaker 1: marriage before. I think Mimi mean, oh yes, yes, and

1170
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:53,599
Speaker 1: her friend at work is like trying to help her

1171
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:56,560
Speaker 1: out and try helping her try to mitigate this situation,

1172
01:09:56,840 --> 01:10:00,600
Speaker 1: and also tries to, you know, help her around the

1173
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:04,640
Speaker 1: boss as well, Like they're in this fucking like laser,

1174
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:09,120
Speaker 1: you know, maze of toxic men. And I just appreciated

1175
01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 1: that Mimi was there and like kept trying to be like, hey,

1176
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:15,160
Speaker 1: get the funk out of here, like you're gonna get

1177
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 1: your wife fired, which he does and it's right. And

1178
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:20,479
Speaker 1: also you would think that Mimi probably knows that their

1179
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:22,559
Speaker 1: boss is a piece of ship too that would do

1180
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 1: something like that. Um, does anyone have anything else they'd

1181
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:32,920
Speaker 1: like to discuss? Wait, what's the nipple scale? What's what

1182
01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 1: is that? Oh? Gosh, okay, So our nipple scale is

1183
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 1: where we rate the movie on a scale of zero

1184
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 1: to five nipples based on just examining it through an

1185
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:48,960
Speaker 1: intersectional feminist lens. So a movie that handles things really

1186
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:52,680
Speaker 1: responsibly and has a feminist message and it's just like

1187
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:56,280
Speaker 1: an amazing feminist masterpiece that would get five nipples, And

1188
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:59,599
Speaker 1: then you know, your average Michael Bay movie would get

1189
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 1: zero nipples. I thought that that was about how many

1190
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:04,840
Speaker 1: nipples you see in the movie, because I think you

1191
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:07,759
Speaker 1: see four nipples. You see a fair number of nipples.

1192
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 1: You see both of their nipples. Speaking of nipples, you

1193
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:12,760
Speaker 1: know the shower scene where he gets in and he's

1194
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 1: trying to like have sex with her and he's starts

1195
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:18,360
Speaker 1: sucking on her nipples and she's like, oh, don't do that,

1196
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:22,120
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, I felt that in my soul

1197
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:25,080
Speaker 1: of my nipples. You know, when you're not wanting to

1198
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:27,400
Speaker 1: have sex and someone's like trying to suck on your nipples,

1199
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 1: You're like, he's sexually pushy. It's like it's gross. I

1200
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about just one other. Like, there's like

1201
01:11:36,479 --> 01:11:39,040
Speaker 1: these little moments that are so realistic that are like

1202
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:42,200
Speaker 1: burned into my brain. I think when like somebody throws

1203
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:44,760
Speaker 1: the keys and they have to both look for the keys. Oh,

1204
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:48,040
Speaker 1: he takes off his wedding ring. Oh, the wedding right

1205
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:50,559
Speaker 1: after she's like, I want to divorce, So he flings

1206
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 1: his wedding ring and then he's like real gold because

1207
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:55,880
Speaker 1: I'm like, that could be like a class thing if

1208
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:58,719
Speaker 1: it's real goal. You know, when you're poor, you can't

1209
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 1: be just fucking throwing that so old ring in the dirt.

1210
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 1: You gotta look for that. That's three, you can get

1211
01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:07,720
Speaker 1: the pawn shop. Yeah, yeah, I guess the nipple thing.

1212
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:09,280
Speaker 1: I have to say this is like this is like

1213
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:13,479
Speaker 1: a really realistic movie, so I guess the misogynistic parts

1214
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:15,680
Speaker 1: of it are kind of realistic. So I don't even

1215
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:19,439
Speaker 1: know if there's like I don't know, I personally can't

1216
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:23,200
Speaker 1: think of like an outwardly except for the abortion scene,

1217
01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:25,599
Speaker 1: which I think I think that's really I just want

1218
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:28,679
Speaker 1: people to never do that again. And I don't think

1219
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:31,200
Speaker 1: men should be writing scenes like that ever, again like

1220
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:34,680
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like it's actually happened to them,

1221
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:37,160
Speaker 1: but like, yeah, I don't know what what do you what?

1222
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:40,000
Speaker 1: What's your nipple rating for this movie? I am a

1223
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:43,000
Speaker 1: good question. Well, first, I just I don't think this

1224
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:46,800
Speaker 1: movie passes the factual test, not at all, because even

1225
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:49,759
Speaker 1: the few the like little tiny bit where like Cindy

1226
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:54,080
Speaker 1: and Mimi interact, it's uh in the context is they're

1227
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:57,559
Speaker 1: talking about Dean and their boss. When Cindy and her

1228
01:12:57,560 --> 01:13:01,600
Speaker 1: grandma talk about like I forgot to pay attention, I

1229
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:04,920
Speaker 1: was paying attention. I think the whole conversation, the subtext

1230
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 1: of it is like, how do you find romantic love

1231
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:11,640
Speaker 1: with a man that isn't traumatizing and terrible? Um So,

1232
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:16,680
Speaker 1: the subtext is definitely men, yes, right right right? Um So,

1233
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:22,639
Speaker 1: No to the Bechtel test nipple scale, I would give

1234
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:27,120
Speaker 1: this three or three and a half nipples because I

1235
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 1: do think that despite it being the whitest movie I've

1236
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:41,240
Speaker 1: ever seen, it does represent a lot of things about

1237
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 1: a relationship going downhill. The subtleties and nuances of the

1238
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 1: abuse in this relationship, I think are handled in a

1239
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:55,559
Speaker 1: way that is far more authentic and nuanced than that

1240
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:59,800
Speaker 1: usually gets represented on screen. I think that you get

1241
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:05,480
Speaker 1: a lot of context for and more context for Cindy's

1242
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:10,559
Speaker 1: character and backstory than you do for Dean, which I

1243
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:14,600
Speaker 1: think like priority given to the woman in this you know,

1244
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:19,240
Speaker 1: hetero relationship, priority given to her characterization is not something

1245
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:22,439
Speaker 1: that usually happens. Yeah, I think that a lot of

1246
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:27,640
Speaker 1: this is it sucks that this like really realistic portrayal

1247
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:32,559
Speaker 1: of a relationship, is the character's mistreating each other and

1248
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:37,719
Speaker 1: a really bummer of a story. Uh, the abortion scene,

1249
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:40,639
Speaker 1: I do. I agree that it is like the one

1250
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 1: thing that I think is handled irresponsibly, and I wish

1251
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:48,519
Speaker 1: that there was more representation in media of just very

1252
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:52,719
Speaker 1: normalizing getting an abortion and it not being a huge

1253
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:57,840
Speaker 1: deal at not being an extremely traumatic thing, that it's

1254
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 1: just a choice that someone makes and follows through with

1255
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:04,479
Speaker 1: that procedure, and that scene could have been handled much

1256
01:15:04,479 --> 01:15:08,559
Speaker 1: differently without the movie changing that much to like it

1257
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:12,760
Speaker 1: doesn't need to happen that way. Sure, absolutely, yes, So

1258
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:14,800
Speaker 1: I think I'll give it. I'll give it three and

1259
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:18,639
Speaker 1: a half nipples on our scale if I was rating

1260
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:21,240
Speaker 1: it on a Caitlin do you have fun watching this

1261
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:25,599
Speaker 1: movie scale? On my Rambo meter. It is a zero

1262
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:30,320
Speaker 1: zero on the Rampo meter, negative negative ten million romps.

1263
01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:32,960
Speaker 1: One thing you could say about this movie is it

1264
01:15:33,080 --> 01:15:38,160
Speaker 1: is not fun. Fun is not the word. That's not why,

1265
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:41,880
Speaker 1: that's not why Derek makes movies. Apparently can find an

1266
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:43,679
Speaker 1: example of him wanting us to be in a good

1267
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 1: mood Derek. And of course not every movie has to

1268
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:50,960
Speaker 1: be a romp. But there's a lot I appreciate about

1269
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:54,479
Speaker 1: this movie. Three and a half nipples. I will give

1270
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:58,600
Speaker 1: one to Michelle Williams because she gave an incredible performance.

1271
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:03,760
Speaker 1: I will give of one to Little Frankie. I'll give

1272
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:07,880
Speaker 1: one to Megan The dog makes you rest in peace.

1273
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:12,479
Speaker 1: And you know what, I'm not going to give it

1274
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:15,759
Speaker 1: a half nipples, So just three nipples is my official rating.

1275
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:19,320
Speaker 1: Because I don't like to be bummed out, I'm gonna

1276
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:22,480
Speaker 1: go three and a half. I think that this movie

1277
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:25,920
Speaker 1: there there are I mean, I think we've hashed out

1278
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:28,640
Speaker 1: the issues with it. It's an extremely white movie. I

1279
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:32,439
Speaker 1: think that the only non white character is Ryan Gosling's

1280
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:36,040
Speaker 1: coworker Marshal, who we only get in a couple of scenes.

1281
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:38,639
Speaker 1: We get no context really for who he is. He's

1282
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:42,720
Speaker 1: mostly just there to listen to Ryan Gosling, which obviously

1283
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:47,800
Speaker 1: is just like very unfortunately in especially in this like

1284
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:52,720
Speaker 1: moody tense drama is very expected and frustrating and like

1285
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 1: not necessary at all should always be called out. And uh,

1286
01:16:57,120 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 1: the abortion scene. I'm so grateful that we had that

1287
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:04,719
Speaker 1: discussion young me because I feel like, I because whatever,

1288
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:06,840
Speaker 1: I've seen this movie so many times over the years

1289
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:10,000
Speaker 1: that I hadn't even like thought given the correct amount

1290
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:14,599
Speaker 1: of thought to how that scene is presented. So those

1291
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:16,439
Speaker 1: are the two things that really stick out to me.

1292
01:17:16,600 --> 01:17:20,200
Speaker 1: Is like just irresponsible when they came out and have

1293
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:26,160
Speaker 1: aged even worse. Um. I do really appreciate the class

1294
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:29,479
Speaker 1: elements to this story. Um, it feels rare that, like

1295
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:31,880
Speaker 1: I don't know that there's really this is like the

1296
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:35,840
Speaker 1: main famous movie about a breakup that is about poor people. Uh,

1297
01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 1: you don't like because you get so many movies that

1298
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:41,040
Speaker 1: are like a marriage story and it's like half of

1299
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 1: the divorce is like, well, who's going to get wood property?

1300
01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:47,120
Speaker 1: And it's like this is not relatable to most of

1301
01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:51,200
Speaker 1: people who see fucking movies. Like I appreciate that it's

1302
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 1: like not only a breakup, but it's it's clear that

1303
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:57,160
Speaker 1: like their backgrounds affect their ability to break up, and

1304
01:17:57,200 --> 01:17:59,599
Speaker 1: like that is not something that's often brought up. And

1305
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:06,160
Speaker 1: I appreciate how the idea of like this romantic emo boy,

1306
01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:09,240
Speaker 1: Like it's kind of like cool to see the Ryan

1307
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 1: Gosling character he'd been playing for ten years be deconstructed

1308
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:16,400
Speaker 1: in a movie. And I've pretty like self aware. Way, um,

1309
01:18:16,439 --> 01:18:19,240
Speaker 1: we didn't talk about this, but something that I thought

1310
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:22,280
Speaker 1: was like really well done on the rewatch that I

1311
01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:24,080
Speaker 1: doubt I picked up on the first time I saw

1312
01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:28,800
Speaker 1: it was Ryan Gosling's character talking about like, oh, you know,

1313
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:31,840
Speaker 1: women are less romantic than men because blah blah blah,

1314
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 1: when it's so obvious that he has no understanding of

1315
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:38,360
Speaker 1: stuff we've talked about, like in terms of class of

1316
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:41,639
Speaker 1: like the history of women and why a woman may

1317
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 1: marry for some level of security because the world does

1318
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:47,800
Speaker 1: not value her in the same way. Like just all

1319
01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:51,280
Speaker 1: this ship I had. This movie held up honestly better

1320
01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:53,560
Speaker 1: than I was expecting it too. I still feel like

1321
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:55,240
Speaker 1: there's a lot that you can get out of it.

1322
01:18:55,320 --> 01:18:58,000
Speaker 1: If if you're going through a breakup and you want

1323
01:18:58,040 --> 01:19:03,479
Speaker 1: to just fucking lose your mind, then give it a rewatch.

1324
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:07,679
Speaker 1: It's streaming for free right now. Um, I was really

1325
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:10,559
Speaker 1: crying so much. It took me four hours to watch

1326
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:15,879
Speaker 1: this movie. Anyways, three and a half nipples. I'm doing great, guys.

1327
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:21,040
Speaker 1: I'm giving all my nipples to Megan. Megan, that dog

1328
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:24,880
Speaker 1: young me. How about you? Um, I don't know. I

1329
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:27,320
Speaker 1: would say also three, I would I would say, Okay.

1330
01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:29,840
Speaker 1: So here's the thing. I'm very sensitive about when movies

1331
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:32,800
Speaker 1: only have white people, and I'm very sensitive about the

1332
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 1: Bechtel test. I've never said that out loud. Is that weird?

1333
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:40,000
Speaker 1: It's yeah, I think in my head I thought it

1334
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:43,200
Speaker 1: was like bastal or something that I had a weird

1335
01:19:43,240 --> 01:19:45,559
Speaker 1: pronunciation in my head for years. I can't believe I've

1336
01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:50,000
Speaker 1: never said that aloud, embarrassing myself at parties. Um, I'm

1337
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:52,559
Speaker 1: very sensitive about that. I'm very sensitive about when movies

1338
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:54,519
Speaker 1: are all white. But I have to say, because this

1339
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:57,360
Speaker 1: movie is just about two people, basically, I'm like a

1340
01:19:57,360 --> 01:20:01,640
Speaker 1: little bit more forgiving. Because even even Ryan Gosling, I

1341
01:20:01,640 --> 01:20:04,719
Speaker 1: don't think he had a conversation with anyone about anything

1342
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:07,840
Speaker 1: besides his wife in the movie either. I don't know

1343
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:10,840
Speaker 1: sure maybe he did. So it's it's because the movie

1344
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 1: is only basically about two people, I'm a little bit

1345
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:16,040
Speaker 1: more forgiving of that when usually if it's like an

1346
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:18,080
Speaker 1: all white movie, I'm like, no, there's no fucking way

1347
01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:19,880
Speaker 1: I'm going to watch this, like how they are they?

1348
01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:23,360
Speaker 1: But um? And then also the class thing, and I

1349
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:26,200
Speaker 1: think it's very important. I think class like is too

1350
01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:28,719
Speaker 1: hard to think about and it's too painful, and people

1351
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:30,800
Speaker 1: just don't like to look at it. But the truth is,

1352
01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:34,439
Speaker 1: most relationships, I would even I'm gonna say this, most

1353
01:20:34,439 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 1: relationships in America because of how where like the socio

1354
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 1: economic status of Americans, which more than half of us

1355
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 1: live in poverty, look like this, This is what most

1356
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:48,719
Speaker 1: relationships look like. You fucking have to stay with this person.

1357
01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:51,320
Speaker 1: You have to go like dig in the dirt for

1358
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:53,559
Speaker 1: the two and a gold ring, because like you don't

1359
01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:55,880
Speaker 1: have a choice, and like we should explore that more.

1360
01:20:56,160 --> 01:20:58,840
Speaker 1: It's important. Nobody wants Yeah, nobody wants to see the

1361
01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:01,880
Speaker 1: fucking story about the person arguing about who gets the

1362
01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:04,800
Speaker 1: beach house. I totally agree with you, Like, what the

1363
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:06,599
Speaker 1: hell does that mean? It makes me feel like shit,

1364
01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:10,519
Speaker 1: like I'm going through a divorce to I'm eating peanut

1365
01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:14,760
Speaker 1: butter sandwiches for a month, you know, like, yeah, I

1366
01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:16,920
Speaker 1: think the class thing, really, I think the class thing

1367
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:20,240
Speaker 1: is what saves this movie and turns in my head

1368
01:21:20,280 --> 01:21:23,400
Speaker 1: of like why it's important to exist and you know what,

1369
01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:25,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to hats off to Derek, Derek. Thank you

1370
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:31,280
Speaker 1: for doing that, Director Derek. Director Derek. Yeah, we don't

1371
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:34,400
Speaker 1: forgive you for the weird like trying to make Ryan

1372
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:37,160
Speaker 1: sleep with Michelle thing that was weird and you should

1373
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 1: feel bad. Yeah, I hope he feels bad. I'm just

1374
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:46,640
Speaker 1: like God, I hope people grow like fuck well, Young Me,

1375
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:49,880
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. It's been an

1376
01:21:49,880 --> 01:21:52,800
Speaker 1: absolute delight. What would you like to plug? Where can

1377
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:56,880
Speaker 1: people follow you online? All that good stuff? Um, you

1378
01:21:56,880 --> 01:21:59,559
Speaker 1: can follow me on social media at why Am Mayor,

1379
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:01,760
Speaker 1: My TikTok is Young Me Mayor and I have a

1380
01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:05,559
Speaker 1: podcast called Feeling Asian Podcasts. You can follow on social

1381
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:08,200
Speaker 1: media at Feeling Asian Podcasts everywhere, and then you can

1382
01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:11,760
Speaker 1: listen everywhere. We have new episodes every Wednesday. Right now,

1383
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:15,559
Speaker 1: I'm going to record with them the woman Natalie who

1384
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:20,639
Speaker 1: was on Love is Blind. Oh my god. Yeah, So

1385
01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:22,879
Speaker 1: I'll let you know how that goes. So that episode

1386
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:24,719
Speaker 1: should be out by the time this is out hopefully

1387
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:29,479
Speaker 1: hell huge, yeah yeah everyone, be sure to check that

1388
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:34,799
Speaker 1: out and then you can check us out on Twitter

1389
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:41,040
Speaker 1: and Instagram at Bechtel Cast. You can subscribe to our Matreon,

1390
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:45,240
Speaker 1: which is at patreon dot com slash pecktel Cast. It

1391
01:22:45,280 --> 01:22:48,000
Speaker 1: gets you tu bonus episodes every month plus access to

1392
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:52,280
Speaker 1: the back catalog, and that is five dollars a month.

1393
01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:54,840
Speaker 1: And if you want to get merch, that's over at

1394
01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:59,559
Speaker 1: t public dot com slash the back till past. In

1395
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:02,479
Speaker 1: the mean time, I hope this didn't bum you out

1396
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:06,479
Speaker 1: too much, but guess what, sometimes it's a bummer. And

1397
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:10,240
Speaker 1: Damia decided I love you again, let's get back together. No,

1398
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:15,920
Speaker 1: come on no. In that case, he does apologize, but

1399
01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:18,599
Speaker 1: I don't accept his apology. By okay, bye,