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Speaker 1: Welcome to She Pivots. I'm your host to Emilie Tish Sussman.
Speaker 3: One of my goals in starting this podcast is to
Speaker 3: highlight voices and stories of women who went through something
Speaker 3: deeply personal, only to come out of it on the
Speaker 3: other side better than they could have imagined. After launching
Speaker 3: she Pivots last year, it's clear it's not a small
Speaker 3: This applies to most women, whether it's a big pivot
Speaker 3: or even just a tiny pivot. What's clear is there's
Speaker 3: still a lot of unpacking to do around pivoting. So
Speaker 3: as we're continuing to build this platform and community through
Speaker 3: new episodes, I wanted to also bring you more stories,
Speaker 3: unfiltered and honest. So I'll be sitting down with more women,
Speaker 3: maybe the occasional man, some of whom have mastered their
Speaker 3: own pivot, some are just starting the pivoting journey. Are
Speaker 3: some just have something to teach us about the deeply
Speaker 3: personal moments of life. So stay tuned for more of
Speaker 3: these candid conversations this season.
Speaker 1: Let's jump right in.
Speaker 4: Okay, welcome back to she Pivots with a super special
Speaker 4: episode with a super special guest, Aaron Leechy New Real
Speaker 4: Housewives of New York. Welcome eron. Thank you so much
Speaker 4: for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 3: You are at the beginning of like a press whirlwind here,
Speaker 3: I sure am how much press and you're done previous
Speaker 3: to Real Housewives of New York planning and launching.
Speaker 1: I always, you mean, in relation to the show or
Speaker 1: just generally.
Speaker 3: Just like in your life, like all of a sudden
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, here's my ninth president of the day.
Speaker 5: I now, I mean, I always kind of was in
Speaker 5: that world, between the business I had years and years ago,
Speaker 5: and then you know, my entior design business and in
Speaker 5: the real estate world working with Frederick Eckland. So like,
Speaker 5: I've always had a lot of press opportunities and been involved,
Speaker 5: but not.
Speaker 1: To this level and not this personal. Maybe and not
Speaker 1: this personal.
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm realizing that I just filmed a show
Speaker 5: in which I have no filter and say anything at
Speaker 5: any time, and I don't quite remember everything I said.
Speaker 1: So it's like, how do you you know? Like how
Speaker 1: could anyone remember everything?
Speaker 3: But well, I was actually just thinking that, like how
Speaker 3: could you possibly remember, especially cause I imagine a lot
Speaker 3: of the press is getting the first couple of episodes
Speaker 3: before the.
Speaker 1: Interview, I think, And that's like, how long ago did
Speaker 1: you film? Like a year? Not a year?
Speaker 5: We started in like I think end of October, okay,
Speaker 5: and one of our first actually one of our first episodes,
Speaker 5: and I think the second and third episode we're out
Speaker 5: here in the Hampton's at my house Okay.
Speaker 3: I was going to ask about that because I was
Speaker 3: in town when you guys were walking through and all
Speaker 3: the production was around.
Speaker 1: I had just taken my son it was about to
Speaker 1: but we hadn't met yet. Did you see production? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I talked to them, stop, Yeah, I asked. I was like, hey,
Speaker 3: what are you guys doing? They all went over to
Speaker 3: Sagtown Coffee for coffees. I told them to you just
Speaker 3: went in.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we were there. We went to launch a page.
Speaker 3: Oh is that where my son had karate at the Kites,
Speaker 3: Like right behind the Kite store. So we were sitting
Speaker 3: having our weekly monkey milkshake Kites of the Harbor, my
Speaker 3: son's favorite store. Yes, the best, and we go to
Speaker 3: karate afterwards, and we're like, wow, this is a big
Speaker 3: happening for the middle of October in like a kind
Speaker 3: of sleepy town in the off season.
Speaker 1: It was like, did you guys have fun when you
Speaker 1: were out here? We had so much fun. We really
Speaker 1: really did. We had a great, great time. There were
Speaker 1: a lot but it was great. Yeah. We also it
Speaker 1: was one of the first episodes.
Speaker 3: Was that weird having people that you only kind of
Speaker 3: knew in your house, like it's your actual house.
Speaker 1: Well I knew all of them, but yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's not like a rented house. It's my home. So
Speaker 1: like to get all this judgment and opinions and needs
Speaker 1: a lot of needs. It was a lot.
Speaker 3: But I'm used to hosting. I'm always I always have
Speaker 3: people over always, and then always pains there's always one pain,
Speaker 3: I'd say, you know, there's always someone who needs a
Speaker 3: little bit more, someone who doesn't help out, like with
Speaker 3: the cleaning.
Speaker 1: But it's fine. I'm used to it and I don't mind.
Speaker 1: I really love having people over. I do.
Speaker 3: Okay, so we're going to rewind how you got here.
Speaker 3: You know, the premise of this show is that we've
Speaker 3: done certain things in our lives, and then things outside
Speaker 3: of our outside of our control, change our perspective, and
Speaker 3: then it puts us on like a slightly different path,
Speaker 3: and you've kind of.
Speaker 1: Woven those together.
Speaker 3: You started in your first professional endeavor in real estate
Speaker 3: so young.
Speaker 1: How did you start so young? My mom is a
Speaker 1: real estate agent.
Speaker 3: My dad was a business owner for many years, but
Speaker 3: then started getting into development in New York.
Speaker 5: And it was just in my blood, Like my parents
Speaker 5: were builders. I just was in that world for so long.
Speaker 5: So for a summer job, my mom was like, well,
Speaker 5: why don't you just get your license? So while I
Speaker 5: was in college, I went and got my real estate license.
Speaker 5: I took the test like in Albany. I was in college. Okay,
Speaker 5: So at nineteen I had my real estate license. I
Speaker 5: started working summers and then you know, I wanted to
Speaker 5: go to grad school. I thought I was going to
Speaker 5: go to law school actually, and then I met my
Speaker 5: husband and he was like, is this really what you
Speaker 5: want to do? Like I'm already a lawyer, Like do
Speaker 5: we need to be both lawyers? And I was like,
Speaker 5: I don't really want to do that, but I didn't
Speaker 5: know what else to do. And then I found this
Speaker 5: program an NYU in sustainable real estate development and then
Speaker 5: got my master's in that.
Speaker 1: So I have had such a long history in real estate,
Speaker 1: Like it's crazy. So were you an agent when you
Speaker 1: were in college?
Speaker 3: Yeah, like when other people were having like a I
Speaker 3: mean I was so immature in college. I cannot imagine
Speaker 3: and I was real estate. Did people know that you
Speaker 3: were in college or you were?
Speaker 5: Well, I'd like come work for summers and I'd get
Speaker 5: put on a listing and I'd show.
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I told it. I didn't
Speaker 1: say that. I'm like, I'm in college.
Speaker 3: I just I just would show up, and I knew
Speaker 3: what to do because it was so ingrained in me,
Speaker 3: Like I just knew how to show. I was always
Speaker 3: good at sales and showing and describing a beautiful property
Speaker 3: and I was My transactions were pretty pretty good.
Speaker 1: Pretty good. We're a teenager, a teenager anybody.
Speaker 5: So once I graduated, I actually was working in a
Speaker 5: new development with my mom, and it was it was
Speaker 5: very bare bones, like oftentimes we sell new development off
Speaker 5: the ground or off of like plans, which I'm really
Speaker 5: good at. It's like kind of my favorite this was built,
Speaker 5: but it was like a carcass. Okay, So it was
Speaker 5: very cold. It was middle of the winter. I graduated
Speaker 5: that summer went into winter, and my mom was like,
Speaker 5: you know what, I'm not going to show. It's gross,
Speaker 5: it's cold, Like take you, take over the showings. So
Speaker 5: I started showing this property pretty much exclusively.
Speaker 1: And one of the new development, like leads Hall said,
Speaker 1: was like, okay, she's got something here.
Speaker 5: So he plucked me basically from that new development, and
Speaker 5: then I was put onto four other ones. So I
Speaker 5: had sold four new developments by the time I was
Speaker 5: twenty three.
Speaker 1: It was crazy wild.
Speaker 3: Yeah, did you think about that as like I am
Speaker 3: on my career path forever or you were like this is.
Speaker 1: Good for now. I don't know what I was.
Speaker 5: I was just like going with like I can't tell
Speaker 5: you how many open houses I hosted when I was
Speaker 5: insanely hungover, like sleeping in the bed.
Speaker 1: Of like the staged room, being like I'm die, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: you want to see this through bedroom? Like I don't
Speaker 1: know how I got through it, like I was a kid,
Speaker 1: you know. But I think I just like I've always had.
Speaker 1: I think it's the New Yorker and me. I've always
Speaker 1: had this mentality of just like go, go go, And
Speaker 1: there was no real pause, like I just went with it,
Speaker 1: so like I was given the opportunity, Like why wouldn't
Speaker 1: I take it? Yeah, did you ever think that you
Speaker 1: wouldn't leave the sitting? Yes? And I think I dabbled,
Speaker 1: like I traveled a lot.
Speaker 5: There was I mean, I studied abroad and then after college,
Speaker 5: we actually my parents like what do you want as
Speaker 5: your college gift? Because I knew I didn't want just
Speaker 5: like a thing, And I was like, I want to
Speaker 5: go to South America and I want to work.
Speaker 1: And I actually volunteered.
Speaker 5: I worked in a comadora with kids in Lima, Peru,
Speaker 5: and I traveled for like weeks and weeks at a time,
Speaker 5: and I did everything like.
Speaker 1: I did Iasca in the jungle before I was but
Speaker 1: was cool. Oh I know, nah Shaman. Yeah. Then I
Speaker 1: was like. Then years later, I was like reading about
Speaker 1: it in Vogue, I'm like, oh, this is like a
Speaker 1: thing that people do like in California. I thought you
Speaker 1: could only do it in the jungle. Oh yeah everyone
Speaker 1: I know who's doing it in California. Crazy. But like
Speaker 1: I did all these things and I experienced so much,
Speaker 1: and then I think, for me, travel really grounds me
Speaker 1: and gives me the ability to like focus focus on work.
Speaker 5: I know it sounds weird, but it's like I just
Speaker 5: need that escape. I love being immersed in different cultures
Speaker 5: because it gives me perspective and makes me really appreciate
Speaker 5: like where I am in life, and like gives me
Speaker 5: that energy boost to just keep going and.
Speaker 1: Do more and do more. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean we both grew up in the city, and
Speaker 3: I feel like there was this sense why would you
Speaker 3: ever live anywhere else? Like just like why would you leave?
Speaker 3: I mean I've been to almost every city, Like what's
Speaker 3: better than New York? No?
Speaker 1: Really, Like I asked people this all, where is there better? Okay,
Speaker 1: there's Chicago, but it's like terribly windy and freezing and
Speaker 1: in the middle of the Midwest, you have California. You
Speaker 1: can't fly to Europe unless you take away over in
Speaker 1: New York.
Speaker 5: And like for me, being able to get to Europe
Speaker 5: or Tel Aviv or wherever easily is important. I don't
Speaker 5: care about going Hawaiian that often, but like also California lifestyle.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I just think New York is the quintessential city. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm not leaving America, so where am I going to be? Yeah, no,
Speaker 3: that's totally fair. I mean I ended up leaving for
Speaker 3: ten years. Like, I didn't think that I was going
Speaker 3: to leave. I never thought that I would leave, And
Speaker 3: I thought that I would go to Washington for one
Speaker 3: year because that was where work took me.
Speaker 1: Right, well, that makes sense.
Speaker 3: But then I ended up staying for ten years and
Speaker 3: the whole time, every like everyone in the city was like,
Speaker 3: but it's so funny being in Washington. Everybody refers to
Speaker 3: New York as they have like some ties to it.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know this, nobody in New York even
Speaker 3: thinks about Washington, Like, nobody thinks that it's even close.
Speaker 1: It's very close, right, yeah, yeah, I mean ish, yes,
Speaker 1: it's talking a couple hours. Yeah, if you take the train.
Speaker 1: It's like three and a half hours in the train,
Speaker 1: like go into the Hamptons when there's traffic.
Speaker 3: I mean honestly, when I before I had kids, when
Speaker 3: I lived in DC, I would come up to New
Speaker 3: York sometimes once a week for like an event or
Speaker 3: a meeting or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So yes, it's very easy to go back. And
Speaker 1: I know, but it seems like a whole other like world.
Speaker 1: It's because it is another world. It's culturally so it's
Speaker 1: culturally really different. It's all like all you think about
Speaker 1: is government news. Yes, yes, that's true. That's why I
Speaker 1: liked it.
Speaker 3: I liked yeah, it need to make sense until it
Speaker 3: got Actually, another broker in the city in New York
Speaker 3: told me that DC is actually the number one feeeder
Speaker 3: city to New York.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's true. I just never would have
Speaker 1: thought about that. That's interesting. I know, peter City, like
Speaker 1: people stop over and then they continue.
Speaker 3: No, like if you're tracking, like where people moved to
Speaker 3: New York from, like of all of the places they
Speaker 3: moved to New York from.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I guess that makes sense kind of
Speaker 1: though it's very different culture. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, have you even been to Washington
Speaker 1: since eighth grade? No? No, nobody has. What's like, it's lovely.
Speaker 3: It's like being in Brooklyn Heights, to be honest, if
Speaker 3: yees our neighborhood was beautiful, yeah, it actually is lovely. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but no, nobody's been there unless you like actually have
Speaker 3: to go. Okay, So you so you're like selling selling selling, Yah,
Speaker 3: how did you, like seriously think you were in law
Speaker 3: school or when did you meet.
Speaker 1: Your husband in that? Yeah?
Speaker 5: I took my alsat I was about to apply, and
Speaker 5: I met Abe and he was like, just think if
Speaker 5: you really like think about it. Do you really want
Speaker 5: to do this because it's a big commitment, it's three
Speaker 5: years of school. Do you want to be an attorney?
Speaker 5: And I was like, absolutely not. Why would I be
Speaker 5: an attorney? He's like, well, then why are you like,
Speaker 5: I don't know, I want to have the ability to
Speaker 5: like write up a contract and he's like, well I
Speaker 5: can do that, like really, and it really did make sense,
Speaker 5: And I gave you perspective in the sense that, like
Speaker 5: I realized it did not want to be an attorney
Speaker 5: and that was not my path. And I don't think
Speaker 5: I could even read through contracts to be honest. But
Speaker 5: then I decided to go to NYU for my master's
Speaker 5: and it was an incredible experience.
Speaker 1: I really loved it.
Speaker 5: Taught me a lot about construction, which is like another
Speaker 5: side of real estate that I didn't know that well
Speaker 5: in a nuanced way. And that also gave me the
Speaker 5: ability to design and build and I do that all
Speaker 5: the time now, so it's like it was a great
Speaker 5: learning experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how did you end up working sustainability into your work?
Speaker 5: I am People don't know this about me, but I'm
Speaker 5: very passionate about sustainability, very very very not that.
Speaker 3: I'm doing the best things in the world, but I
Speaker 3: drive a Tesla. I don't use Classic in my house.
Speaker 5: Like I think it is insane that buildings are not
Speaker 5: built to really operate and run on themselves.
Speaker 1: They easily can, and I was really curious and interested
Speaker 1: in it, and I just wanted to know, like, what
Speaker 1: does that mean? How do you actually take those steps
Speaker 1: to have a building operate on itself?
Speaker 5: And it's so easy to do, but a lot of
Speaker 5: developers don't want to do it because it first of all,
Speaker 5: it seems like it's a lot that's like Honestly, the
Speaker 5: biggest part just seems like more work because people aren't
Speaker 5: well versed in it. So I was hoping, you know,
Speaker 5: if I got further into the business, which I have been,
Speaker 5: I work really closely with a lot of developers in
Speaker 5: a new development, I'd be able to kind of shed
Speaker 5: light on it and help people understand that they could
Speaker 5: make these small advances in a sustainable way to you know,
Speaker 5: have the building be more of a green building.
Speaker 3: How has that evolved for you in your work, going
Speaker 3: from just the selling to learning about sustainability and the
Speaker 3: building and now you're doing much more all encompassing.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, So I mean with Homegirl, what I do
Speaker 1: is I mean, I work in interior design, but usually
Speaker 1: it's design builds, so from start to finish really on
Speaker 1: any project, down to the furniture. And in terms of
Speaker 1: like when I talk about sustainability with furniture, it's really
Speaker 1: about reusing stuff, right, Like I love first DIBs because
Speaker 1: you can get a beautiful vintage Kegan sofa and refinish it.
Speaker 1: Like why not?
Speaker 5: Why are we not utilizing all this like waste that
Speaker 5: exists that's not actually waste. Everybody's trying to create the
Speaker 5: same product that you saw in the seventies now, like
Speaker 5: we don't have to buy a new piece, we can
Speaker 5: just cover it. And that's like something that I think
Speaker 5: my clients really gravitate towards and love because most of
Speaker 5: them are passionate about it too, whether they realize they
Speaker 5: are or not, they just.
Speaker 1: It needs to be discussed. And then in terms of
Speaker 1: the construction side, there are lots of small things that
Speaker 1: you can do to make a project or a building
Speaker 1: more green. It's like just products you can use, you know,
Speaker 1: using less concrete, which is really hard on the environment. Interesting, Yeah,
Speaker 1: things like that.
Speaker 3: I mean, fashion and construction are the two biggest factors
Speaker 3: in global warming and.
Speaker 1: It needs to stop. So even if I can do
Speaker 1: a small part, I'm happy to do it. After this,
Speaker 1: can I show you all the furniture in my basement
Speaker 1: for your potential? I have lots in my basement. Definitely. Okay, great,
Speaker 1: I'm really looking for out it too. How did you
Speaker 1: think about it?
Speaker 3: I mean, for me, the premise of where this show
Speaker 3: came from is that I loved my career in politics.
Speaker 3: It was very career your mind did and having three
Speaker 3: kids so close together was not planned for me and
Speaker 3: really through my career off track, you have the same
Speaker 3: basically three kids that I have, Like, how did you
Speaker 3: think about it? Did you plan? And how have you
Speaker 3: handled it?
Speaker 1: I'm not going to lie. It is challenging.
Speaker 5: There are days where I'm like, how am I going
Speaker 5: to get through all the things that I need to
Speaker 5: do today?
Speaker 3: And I'm starting a new project as well. I'm mescal brand,
Speaker 3: which I'll talk to you about. But sometimes it's like overwhelming.
Speaker 3: That being said, I think when you have your own
Speaker 3: business and you're able to make the important things, like
Speaker 3: even today, I was able to pick up Levi and
Speaker 3: his buddy and take them to lunch and then come here,
Speaker 3: you know. But because I'm able to own my own
Speaker 3: schedule and make those decisions, it makes a world of difference.
Speaker 3: When I was working exclusively in new development, I had
Speaker 3: to be on site every single day ten to six.
Speaker 1: That doesn't really work for me anymore. But as you
Speaker 1: grow in your career, what I realized is, you know,
Speaker 1: I became really valuable in my industry. So I say
Speaker 1: to my developers like, hey, I can't do that, Like
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be here from ten to six,
Speaker 1: but I'll be there when there are showings president, and
Speaker 1: I'll manage the other people. So I think like it
Speaker 1: is important to get to it.
Speaker 5: And I started really young, as you know, so like
Speaker 5: I had that time to get to this point in
Speaker 5: my career. But it is important as a mother to
Speaker 5: get to a certain point in your career where you
Speaker 5: can make those decisions and sort of make those claims
Speaker 5: to your bosses or whoever you work for, to say,
Speaker 5: I'm capable of doing what I need to do and
Speaker 5: to get done what I need to get done as
Speaker 5: long as you have faith in me, don't worry about
Speaker 5: the time output, like I will manage it. Yeah, And
Speaker 5: I think that's important for women to know that they
Speaker 5: can kind of stand up for themselves in that way,
Speaker 5: Like I don't need to be here all the time.
Speaker 1: But if I'm slacking, then that's a conversation to behind.
Speaker 1: But if I know how to manage my own time right,
Speaker 1: and I'm selling your building or I'm you know, doing
Speaker 1: whatever your books or whatever someone does, then that's enough.
Speaker 1: What are the.
Speaker 3: Must haves for you as a parent that you feel
Speaker 3: like these are the things that I can't miss. I
Speaker 3: like to be there for dinner. I like to be
Speaker 3: there for dinner. I like to put my kids bed.
Speaker 5: Doesn't happen all the time, and I've learned not to
Speaker 5: beat myself up for over that. That's a really hard
Speaker 5: thing I think to get over when your kids are babies,
Speaker 5: Like putting the baby down was like like I used
Speaker 5: to break my heart when I couldn't do it because
Speaker 5: they asked for you at that age. Now it's a
Speaker 5: little bit easier. My youngest is three, but for me,
Speaker 5: like missing school events. I actually had to miss one
Speaker 5: recently for something we were doing promo for Ronnie that
Speaker 5: I could not miss, and I didn't realize that it
Speaker 5: was on the same day, and I was so bummed,
Speaker 5: Like Levi and my son had worked so hard all
Speaker 5: year for this one presentation. I missed it, and that
Speaker 5: was like, oh, like a knife to the heart. And
Speaker 5: that doesn't usually happen. But I think like school functions,
Speaker 5: like where they've worked really hard, presentations, things like that,
Speaker 5: I didn't like.
Speaker 1: To miss those. How did you explain it to him?
Speaker 5: I said, Mommy has something really important for work and
Speaker 5: I just can't miss it. There's no way for me
Speaker 5: to get out of this, and I'm so sorry. I
Speaker 5: did not realize it fell on the same day.
Speaker 3: I was just very honest with him, Yeah, you know, honestly, like,
Speaker 3: I feel like that's good for kids to hear sometimes
Speaker 3: that like you are a person, you have your work,
Speaker 3: you have your own priorities, Like I mean, like I
Speaker 3: try to be there at important things for my kids,
Speaker 3: like obviously, but I do feel like it's okay for
Speaker 3: kids to hear like you can't the world does not
Speaker 3: revolve around them. And I agree with the moment in
Speaker 3: every single time.
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree.
Speaker 5: I think that's actually something very important for them to
Speaker 5: learn at a young age.
Speaker 3: I also was reading I don't remember what book I read.
Speaker 3: It might have been match Point years ago. Wasn't that
Speaker 3: match Point? No, that's a movie that was that.
Speaker 1: Book years ago? What with Malcolm? I feel like I
Speaker 1: knew you were in after this one tipping point? Tipping Point?
Speaker 1: Was it that point? Okay?
Speaker 5: I feel like it was in this book where he said,
Speaker 5: you know, you're you're not supposed to tell your kids
Speaker 5: like everything they did is so great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's and it's true. It's like, Okay, well
Speaker 1: that was a good try.
Speaker 5: It's the same thing of like I can't be at
Speaker 5: everything like that's just not real life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, so they do. I think it's grounding
Speaker 1: for them, and they do need to know that, like
Speaker 1: life doesn't all around them. Not everything they do.
Speaker 5: Is perfect, Like things are get hairy, and it's all
Speaker 5: about how you work it out. Like one day, Abe
Speaker 5: and I got in like a stupid fight, like a
Speaker 5: really dumb, dumb argument, and we were like bickering on
Speaker 5: each other, and my son was like, don't fight, don't fight.
Speaker 5: And later on we went and I'm being very honest
Speaker 5: about this because I think it's important for mothers to
Speaker 5: think every couple fights, and it's also okay for your
Speaker 5: kids to see that. I'm not saying that you should
Speaker 5: like throw things at each other and have like a
Speaker 5: violent argument. But you know, we took him to the
Speaker 5: side later and we had a conversation with him and
Speaker 5: we said, listen, we're gonna fight sometimes. You fight with
Speaker 5: your sisters sometimes, right, but you always work it out,
Speaker 5: you know, work it out, We talk it through.
Speaker 1: We love each other like that's normal.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think it's important for kids to know
Speaker 5: and also for parents not to be so hard on them.
Speaker 1: So I was like, you can't be perfect all the time. Yeah, Oh,
Speaker 1: that's interesting.
Speaker 3: That's I do try to be really honest with my kids,
Speaker 3: but not fighting with my husband in front of my
Speaker 3: kids is something that I really try me too not
Speaker 3: to do, although now that I'm thinking about it, I
Speaker 3: probably still do it. Probably the only part I'm missing
Speaker 3: is telling my kids I'm just fighting with them anybody.
Speaker 5: I think because my son had a reaction, we were like,
Speaker 5: all right, let's have a conversation with him about it,
Speaker 5: you know, like he realized that we were getting I mean,
Speaker 5: it wasn't even a big deal. It's not the worst
Speaker 5: thing for them to see, you know, conflict and resolution.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, no, it's an important thing for them
Speaker 1: to say.
Speaker 3: So how do you let's let's talk about Ronnie now, Like,
Speaker 3: how do you think about the relationship with your kids
Speaker 3: and the show. You're obviously entering this new phase which
Speaker 3: is more public than you guys have ever been.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think I don't even really realize how
Speaker 1: crazy it's going to be. Honestly, I'm like the more
Speaker 1: i'm I'm like, oh my god, all these things I said,
Speaker 1: what's going to happen? But how do you think about
Speaker 1: all of that?
Speaker 3: Like, you know, did you choose to have your kids
Speaker 3: on not on what parameters to around it a little bit?
Speaker 1: Do you explain it? Like, how did you explain it
Speaker 1: to your kids?
Speaker 5: Well, we had a very open conversation like mom and
Speaker 5: dad are going to be on a show. It shows
Speaker 5: our life, but mostly my life with some friends and
Speaker 5: my career, and if do you guys want to be
Speaker 5: on it?
Speaker 1: Do you not want to be on it?
Speaker 5: Some days, like Levi and Leila came home once, my
Speaker 5: two older ones and they were like what in the
Speaker 5: world Mom, Like you're filming and why aren't they Mike
Speaker 5: and mea we were.
Speaker 1: Like, oh all right, stop.
Speaker 5: So like some and then one day leave I was
Speaker 5: like I don't want to do this scene, like I'm
Speaker 5: not going to and we were like, okay, no problem.
Speaker 1: We went to his room.
Speaker 3: So I think like giving them control over their own
Speaker 3: lives it was important during the whole experience, but just
Speaker 3: being honest with them, like Mommy's on a show, showing
Speaker 3: them clips like I'm not going to show them the
Speaker 3: whole thing because we do talk a lot about sex, so.
Speaker 1: Quite prepared for those conversations. But but you know what,
Speaker 1: it's something about it is somewhat like freeing and liberating
Speaker 1: for me at least, because it is a big deal.
Speaker 5: I am exposing a lot of my life. I am
Speaker 5: opening the doors basically for America to see my life,
Speaker 5: my relationship, my career. But also like I feel good
Speaker 5: where I am, you know, and and if I screw
Speaker 5: up and if I say the wrong thing, like I
Speaker 5: said the wrong thing, I mean I'm not perfect.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean probably do you need to be a
Speaker 3: secure person to be able to go into this because
Speaker 3: like at this point, like we kind of know what
Speaker 3: we're signing up for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, by opening ourselves up that there's so much.
Speaker 3: Scrutiny, Yeah, from the public, and you know a lot
Speaker 3: of what ends up driving a lot of the ratings.
Speaker 3: Niche is conflict, right, and there is that.
Speaker 1: There certainly is conflict. There is that.
Speaker 3: I mean, did you have a kind of comfortable level
Speaker 3: with conflict going into it?
Speaker 1: Like I know some people kind of shy away or
Speaker 1: like I'm.
Speaker 5: Very straightforward, very like almost fault yeah, Like and if
Speaker 5: there's a problem, I'm like, well, why don't we just
Speaker 5: address it and move on? Like I don't understand the
Speaker 5: harping or you know, they like talking about it with
Speaker 5: other people and being like just.
Speaker 1: Say it, what the problem is, resolve it or don't
Speaker 1: you know?
Speaker 5: Like either way, Like you can make a decision right,
Speaker 5: Like there was one conflict I got in with someone
Speaker 5: that was sort of like you know, people were like, well,
Speaker 5: why aren't you more mad? And this and that, and
Speaker 5: it's like, well, I could decide to be more mad,
Speaker 5: but like, who does that hurt?
Speaker 1: It hurts me, Like I don't need to be so angry.
Speaker 1: This is what happened, and I'm deciding to move on
Speaker 1: from it. Or I could also decide not to. But
Speaker 1: it's like, what's the point in the I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's just me.
Speaker 5: I don't I'm also one of five. I'm used to
Speaker 5: like getting into conflict. Like we've gotten into many, many things,
Speaker 5: and typically we move on from them.
Speaker 1: You know. It's kind of what you do with a
Speaker 1: big family. So I'm just used to it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you feel like you're getting out of this
Speaker 3: experience what you had hoped? I don't know yet because
Speaker 3: we haven't aired I think, but I think it's really
Speaker 3: cool to put yourself in a situation. Maybe that's why
Speaker 3: I like traveling so much, that there's like an unknown factor,
Speaker 3: you know, Like I was saying this to Abe, I
Speaker 3: feel like I just like when I started, when we
Speaker 3: started filming, I was like, I feel like I entered
Speaker 3: into another universe. Like so long are the days where
Speaker 3: it's like school drop off, you know, meeting at one
Speaker 3: it's like no scheduled like filming, you know, like if
Speaker 3: something occurs with somebody else on the cast, then it's like, Okay,
Speaker 3: now we have to add another scene. So it's very
Speaker 3: interesting and it's such a different day to day experience,
Speaker 3: and I thought it was cool to like be able
Speaker 3: to experience something that different from my normal life.
Speaker 1: It's funny.
Speaker 3: I do feel like I'm in a point in my
Speaker 3: life now where I'm running towards things that I don't
Speaker 3: know because I want to have different kinds of yea.
Speaker 3: Up until this point, I've spent so much of my
Speaker 3: life thinking about creating predictability and like defining who I am,
Speaker 3: like really getting good at things that I think I'm
Speaker 3: good at, And now I'm actually doing the opposite right,
Speaker 3: So I kind of feel like it's what you're describing it.
Speaker 1: I want to just try something different. It's cool, Like
Speaker 1: there's not another word I can think like, it's just
Speaker 1: a very interesting way to live where it's like, here
Speaker 1: I am starting this new project and I don't have
Speaker 1: control over this project.
Speaker 5: And I'm also I'm very type A like. Before this,
Speaker 5: I'm controlling. I'm type A like I know how to
Speaker 5: run my business, but going into this it's I don't
Speaker 5: have control. So cool, It's just a very different way
Speaker 5: of life. How did you manage that timing like with
Speaker 5: having to I mean.
Speaker 1: It's always difficult. Yeah, it's a big book of time, right,
Speaker 1: It's very difficult for me. It was really really hard.
Speaker 3: But you know once you get it through your head
Speaker 3: that you will not have control over time and you
Speaker 3: just have to go with the flow and you cannot
Speaker 3: schedule the way you scheduled before the show started.
Speaker 1: That's when things get easier, believe it or not.
Speaker 5: It's like you kind of let your clients know I
Speaker 5: may not be available on these dates.
Speaker 1: You know, please speak to this person instead, and then
Speaker 1: things just get easier because you know how to manage
Speaker 1: their expectations.
Speaker 3: You're not like I'll be there on the call and
Speaker 3: then you can't take the call, and then you feel
Speaker 3: like an asshole. You know, I would imagine that also
Speaker 3: happened with personal relationships like friendships, that like, if you
Speaker 3: have to spend a bulk amount of time with a
Speaker 3: certain group of people, that kind of naturally cuts out
Speaker 3: the time I said, I have such limited time with
Speaker 3: my friends in the first place, kind of cuts out
Speaker 3: the amount of time you'd have for like the other
Speaker 3: people in your lives.
Speaker 5: I'd say, I am feel very very very blessed and
Speaker 5: very grateful that I have the most incredible friends who
Speaker 5: have just been like so supportive. Like I I'm still
Speaker 5: best friends with my high school friends, believe it or not,
Speaker 5: and like a lot of my college friends, we don't
Speaker 5: have to speak all the time for us to have
Speaker 5: the exact same friendship and the exact same relationship. Those
Speaker 5: are the friends I think that really matter because they,
Speaker 5: I mean, they got it. They were like, Okay, we
Speaker 5: know she's doing this, and no one really like said
Speaker 5: anything aside from we're so excited for you, like wooh,
Speaker 5: how's it going? You know here and there. And then
Speaker 5: as soon as like I had the time again, the
Speaker 5: first people I called were, you know, we're my close friends,
Speaker 5: and so I feel like it was I mean, it
Speaker 5: was it was hard to like make birthday parties right.
Speaker 5: Sure it was hard to like go to you know,
Speaker 5: dinners that were planned with girlfriends and stuff like that,
Speaker 5: but I think everyone was really understanding.
Speaker 3: So I do feel very lucky of the friends that
Speaker 3: I have. Who in the cat did you have a
Speaker 3: relationship with beforehand?
Speaker 1: I had a relationship with Si, with Uba, I knew Jemma.
Speaker 1: I think it's so.
Speaker 3: Interesting looking at again, like being New Yorkers and looking
Speaker 3: at you guys actually live.
Speaker 1: In all different neighborhoods. Isn't that cool?
Speaker 3: Because I do feel like people tend to get very
Speaker 3: locally focused in the city and like only socialized with
Speaker 3: the people that are kind of in their neighborhoods.
Speaker 5: Well, say, actually lives very close to me, like Tribeca
Speaker 5: and Brooklyn, especially that part of Brooklyn are like, I mean,
Speaker 5: she's like ten minutes in a cab.
Speaker 1: It's so easy. But yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker 1: It is cool that we're in all these different areas.
Speaker 3: So did you have close relationships with them before or
Speaker 3: it was more like you this was the closest time
Speaker 3: you had spent together. Well, with the girls that I mentioned,
Speaker 3: I mean we ran in the same circle. Si and
Speaker 3: I most mostly have like very common friends and uber
Speaker 3: like and I just like fell in love when we
Speaker 3: first met.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we definitely spent the most time together on
Speaker 1: the show for sure. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's actually funny.
Speaker 3: Last summer, I had a different friend who was in
Speaker 3: one of the alternate casts because there were like a
Speaker 3: couple of different groups.
Speaker 1: Don't even know, I feel like I'm breaking news now.
Speaker 3: There were like a couple of different groups that they
Speaker 3: were talking to, and I have a friend.
Speaker 1: Well, don't worry you won, I didn't know. I didn't
Speaker 1: know this. Oh oh oh, okay, Well I have a
Speaker 1: friend who was one of the other ones. What one
Speaker 1: was that? I mean, there wasn't a name for it.
Speaker 3: There was just like a couple of different groups of
Speaker 3: people that they were talking to to see who like
Speaker 3: they did screen groups of friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah, ooh, Jesse, oh yes.
Speaker 3: Well you guys went out, so clearly I was gonna ask,
Speaker 3: what do you think it was about the group that
Speaker 3: that one?
Speaker 1: Honestly, we are hysterical. I am telling you.
Speaker 5: I watched some of the episodes, not many, but I
Speaker 5: tell you, I mean like crying, laughing, like also, when
Speaker 5: we get together, it's just like we riff on each other,
Speaker 5: you know what, you know, friends that you have that
Speaker 5: like you go out and it's just like this one
Speaker 5: comes back with that retort and this response, and everyone's
Speaker 5: just like laughing and it's funny, and it's like we're
Speaker 5: all really witty, we all like get the point, some
Speaker 5: of us, most of us, and it's fun.
Speaker 1: We have fun together. It's just like fun moments.
Speaker 3: I feel like you're describing what every like group of
Speaker 3: friends now thinks to themselves. I was editing the episode
Speaker 3: that we're putting out next week is with a very
Speaker 3: old friend of mine, and she was saying, how like
Speaker 3: the trend now of like group of friends, like, God,
Speaker 3: we're so funny, we.
Speaker 1: Should be a podcast.
Speaker 3: Really, Like that's what I feel like you're describing that, Like, God,
Speaker 3: we're so funny, we should be a show, and now
Speaker 3: everybody will love it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see people like it.
Speaker 5: It feels also very I hate to say it because
Speaker 5: it's trite, but Sex and the City, like everyone is
Speaker 5: one of those characters in a sense.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like we're very individual, but we're great
Speaker 1: as a group.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that show like growing up in the city,
Speaker 3: that Sex and City really did revolutionize the way that
Speaker 3: women socialize.
Speaker 1: Like I have a very specific memory. I watched it
Speaker 1: like crazy, and I felt very connected to it.
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean I was obviously we're you are, but
Speaker 3: we were like, yes, like that could be our lives.
Speaker 1: Do you think that now we'll see you guys in
Speaker 1: the show?
Speaker 5: I really hope so, because I think it's a healthier
Speaker 5: not that Housewives isn't healthy, but you know, there's a
Speaker 5: lot of conflict and resolution, there are healthy relationships, there's
Speaker 5: a lot of fun, and there's also like women with
Speaker 5: balancing careers and kids and a lot going on while
Speaker 5: still like you know, spending time with their friends and
Speaker 5: having those healthy friendships as well.
Speaker 1: So I think there's a lot.
Speaker 5: That we're giving younger women, you know, and also women
Speaker 5: of our age that just want to relate and like,
Speaker 5: you know, even like there was there. I remember the
Speaker 5: scene when we were filming it, my son like but
Speaker 5: like starts like peeing.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's going to be on camera,
Speaker 1: but like he just starts peeing, and I'm like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, you know, but this is life. It happens.
Speaker 1: I was potty training and he was being everywhere you know.
Speaker 3: Before this, I was running errands with my three year
Speaker 3: olds in town and she looks over at me and
Speaker 3: she's like, I have to go to the potty.
Speaker 1: And usually when she says that, it means she already did.
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh good, I'm standing in them
Speaker 3: all relax on main Street and she probably just peede
Speaker 3: on the ground.
Speaker 1: She did not, fortunately, but I was like, I.
Speaker 3: Know where this is going to end, with me like
Speaker 3: throwing my purse over it and hoping that I.
Speaker 1: Can stop it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I know, it's like a whole thing. It's not easy
Speaker 5: to potty train, but it's it's good.
Speaker 1: For people to be able to relate to it. No,
Speaker 1: it's very relatable. It's relatable.
Speaker 3: And I do feel like that's been sort of a
Speaker 3: general commentary of like the like the hardcore Bravo fans
Speaker 3: that a lot of these groups that have been on
Speaker 3: Housewives shows for a long time are getting really serious
Speaker 3: and kind of dark, and like they're into it and
Speaker 3: they want to keep following it and they feel very invested,
Speaker 3: but like they're looking for something a little lighter, because
Speaker 3: like it's getting so deep and so dark.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're hoping that this is going to do that.
Speaker 1: I definitely think that. I think this definitely does that.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's just not dark, yeah, like there, and
Speaker 5: I think a lot of us are just I mean,
Speaker 5: I wouldn't say everyone, but I think most of us are.
Speaker 5: So I don't want to say anything negative because I
Speaker 5: don't want to like shit on anyone else. But I
Speaker 5: think we're just in places in our lives where with
Speaker 5: so much going on that we're not.
Speaker 3: Getting like so in the weeds, in like such a
Speaker 3: dark space with each other, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: Like we just don't have the time for that, you know,
Speaker 3: to be like ah, like in our beds, like so
Speaker 3: upset angry in Twitter and all that, like we're busy
Speaker 3: right exactly, Like I can't just like be like precipitating
Speaker 3: over like the thing that we had just talked about,
Speaker 3: or like whatever it is to get like super dark
Speaker 3: and like.
Speaker 1: These writing holes. Like everyone's like, did you reread it?
Speaker 1: What it said? I'm like, I don't even I don't
Speaker 1: know how to read it.
Speaker 5: I should, but I don't know how. I don't have Twitter,
Speaker 5: like I have it, but I don't do anything on it.
Speaker 3: So I feel like another piece of that is like
Speaker 3: actually the spousal relationships that it does feel like over
Speaker 3: the years, a number of people have chosen to go on,
Speaker 3: whether it's Housewives or a different show, because they actually
Speaker 3: wanted to get financial security, to leave their partners, or
Speaker 3: to expose it, or you know, something along those Now.
Speaker 1: I never thought about that, but I've been hearing that
Speaker 1: a lot. It's very interesting. I think it's interesting.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's an interesting take on the
Speaker 3: new feminism that like, if you don't have your own
Speaker 3: income stream, then maybe exposing your partner.
Speaker 1: And getting your own platform.
Speaker 3: It seems like a real painful way to do it,
Speaker 3: like to expose it to America into the world.
Speaker 1: But I was making more money before I got on
Speaker 1: the show. I swear to that. Is that gonna feel
Speaker 1: worth it? Like, I mean, really, that's very interesting.
Speaker 3: I think there is something empowering for a lot of
Speaker 3: women who don't have an income stream to be able
Speaker 3: to like create a character and in themselves, you know,
Speaker 3: which is really just their true self.
Speaker 1: You really can't fake it on these shows. That's another
Speaker 1: you just can't.
Speaker 3: The minute you start being faked, the minute you look
Speaker 3: like a version of yourself that is not real, and
Speaker 3: the fans and the viewers pick up on it in
Speaker 3: five seconds. So I think it's really interesting when you
Speaker 3: see because I've seen these shows where like people start
Speaker 3: to shift and act a certain way and feel it immediately.
Speaker 5: But yeah, that is a really interesting way to put it.
Speaker 5: And yeah, I could definitely see that. I could definitely
Speaker 5: see that.
Speaker 3: I think it's it sort of goes along with the
Speaker 3: debate about like what is feminist in appearance now, like
Speaker 3: is it still feminists to have all of the.
Speaker 1: Implants and surgery is to look the way you want
Speaker 1: or not?
Speaker 5: In my book, but I don't. I respect it. It's
Speaker 5: so funny because I really I breastfed three kids. Like
Speaker 5: I need to get a boob lift. Okay, I have
Speaker 5: no problem in saying it.
Speaker 3: By the way, I think you just heard my producer
Speaker 3: laughing in the back of this, because that's the conversation
Speaker 3: we had at dinner. I last night, at dinner, I
Speaker 3: compared my baby two long tubes socks.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I joke about it. I'm like pancakes
Speaker 1: cleaning the floor. Anybody knew, like a mop anihilate, Like
Speaker 1: that's me. Okay, It's ridiculous. I mean, I probably shouldn't
Speaker 1: have breastfed for as long as I did. But I
Speaker 1: loved it, you know, but it ruined my boobs. I
Speaker 1: have double d's doubles. I'm now a beak. I have
Speaker 1: tiniest book. Okay, that's the best, the biggest. It's crazy.
Speaker 1: I was like known for my big boobs and I
Speaker 1: have tiny boobs now.
Speaker 3: I had a breast reduction before I had kids, so
Speaker 3: I had like giant boobs and now I just sort
Speaker 3: of have empty ones like exactly they're looking so everyone
Speaker 3: to Everyone keeps telling me, like, you're going to have
Speaker 3: to get an implant, but I.
Speaker 1: Really don't want to. I want to not want to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I don't think I will. I mean, I don't.
Speaker 1: I know that everyone's going to like meeting doctors or
Speaker 1: probably try to encourage me to do it, but whatever.
Speaker 1: So it won't be a perfect boob, but it'll be
Speaker 1: higher than now, higher than my meeting my belly buttons
Speaker 1: exactly exactly.
Speaker 5: But yeah, no, I'm I'm very much like into looking
Speaker 5: like yourself. I don't judge anyone who wants to have
Speaker 5: plastic surgery or whatever. I think it's fine. It's all
Speaker 5: about how you feel at the end of the day,
Speaker 5: it doesn't really matter what you're doing. But for me personally,
Speaker 5: I just like looking like myself and I think it's
Speaker 5: okay to age, Like I don't mind those things.
Speaker 3: Where's the line for you when you think about where
Speaker 3: your lines are, like what you open up, like whether
Speaker 3: it's on social media, whether it's on Ronnie, Like if
Speaker 3: you did say the show continues on, if you continue
Speaker 3: on with it, if you did decide to go through
Speaker 3: a surgery like that, Oh, I would you.
Speaker 1: Do it on the show? I would totally show it.
Speaker 1: I would totally. That doesn't bother me at all. Have
Speaker 1: you decided where lines are for you, I'd say, Like
Speaker 1: with my family, Like with my kids, like if anything
Speaker 1: felt too personal with them, like if they were I
Speaker 1: don't know, if they were like having an issue with
Speaker 1: a friend or like something at school, Like I would
Speaker 1: never want their lives because they didn't sign up for
Speaker 1: this at the end of the day. Same with my husband,
Speaker 1: like if he ever.
Speaker 3: Felt like something was really personal for him and he
Speaker 3: didn't want to film, and I would never ask him to, Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: hard stuff.
Speaker 1: For me, I'm.
Speaker 5: Very open, Like I've always been just a very open person.
Speaker 5: I don't have that much that I feel like I
Speaker 5: wouldn't share. I don't know why, I just I don't know.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's the it's like lack of filter,
Speaker 1: maybe because I think it is. Yeah, I'm just like,
Speaker 1: you know, let's go, oh, let's put it all out there.
Speaker 5: I feel like, look, I think once you anybody can
Speaker 5: get to this place whereas you know, if you're okay
Speaker 5: with not being perfect all the time, with not like
Speaker 5: having the right story, with people having backlash, and look,
Speaker 5: granted I have not gone through probably the backlash that
Speaker 5: I will go through in the upcoming season, so I
Speaker 5: don't really know what to expect.
Speaker 1: I don't know how that's going to feel.
Speaker 5: But I'm also going into it knowing that it exists
Speaker 5: and that I'm okay with it. So I think if you,
Speaker 5: if you have that kind of mindset, like what could
Speaker 5: really go wrong in a sense, you know? I mean,
Speaker 5: of course, I'm sure there will be times where I'm like, shit,
Speaker 5: I WI shouldn't say that, or damn, like it sucks
Speaker 5: that people see me this way. But I know who
Speaker 5: I am, I know what my intentions are. I know
Speaker 5: I'm a good person. I care about my friends, and
Speaker 5: family and the viewers. To be honest, I care about
Speaker 5: all of them because I want them to be encouraged
Speaker 5: by the show and encouraged by us and feel like
Speaker 5: for women to feel good and even relationships, Like I
Speaker 5: love showing my relationship because knock on wood, we're not again,
Speaker 5: we're not perfect.
Speaker 1: We're fight in front of our kids apparently, but you apologize,
Speaker 1: We apologize, and we love each other and we have
Speaker 1: like mutual respect, which I think oftentimes on these shows
Speaker 1: you don't always see. You see a lot of.
Speaker 5: Women who don't seem to be respected by their husbands,
Speaker 5: and it's disappointing to watch. And I think that's an.
Speaker 3: Encouraging theme where you get to see a husband who
Speaker 3: really like supports their wives. I think all of our
Speaker 3: husbands are like that on the show, to be honest,
Speaker 3: that's gray of us have husbands that really promote us
Speaker 3: and care about us and want us to do the best.
Speaker 1: We do. Need to see more of that. That's great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you think not in terms of like
Speaker 3: the storylines of that are going to come out, but
Speaker 3: by becoming more public and becoming I guess associated with
Speaker 3: reality TV in general, Like, what do you think are
Speaker 3: like the best case and worst case scenarios for you.
Speaker 3: The best case scenario is that everyone loves me, and
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't really know. That's a good question. I have
Speaker 1: to think that one through.
Speaker 3: I mean, worst case scenario is that someone in my
Speaker 3: family would be upset or hurt, like even my siblings
Speaker 3: because they're on the show a little bit by anything
Speaker 3: I said that would be really work, that would crush me.
Speaker 3: I would never want to hurt like my close friends
Speaker 3: or family in any sort of way.
Speaker 1: Best case would be that people are excited about what
Speaker 1: I have to offer, that women are inspired, and that
Speaker 1: makes me emotional to even say, honestly inspired to be mothers.
Speaker 5: And this is something that I've struggled with for years,
Speaker 5: understanding that women are constantly giving up their careers once
Speaker 5: they have kids. And I'm just so not that type
Speaker 5: of person.
Speaker 3: And I don't judge people giving up their careers because
Speaker 3: I totally understand why you'd want to spend every minute
Speaker 3: with your kids, but they end up going to school.
Speaker 1: And then what are you left with?
Speaker 5: You know, and I really want to know inspire women
Speaker 5: to continue with their career path because I think it's
Speaker 5: so hell healthy, it's healthy for your marriage, it's healthy
Speaker 5: for your kids.
Speaker 1: I think it's healthy for you know, your own mind.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the hard part where people and I
Speaker 3: mean some people just leave the workforce that they want to,
Speaker 3: but I think.
Speaker 1: And I get that, and I don't judge that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think the place that it becomes hard
Speaker 3: is when your career path doesn't match up with the
Speaker 3: amount of bandwidth.
Speaker 1: That you have. That was my problem.
Speaker 3: So I didn't even see a way not just to
Speaker 3: stay in my own job, but to stay in my field,
Speaker 3: because my field was twenty four to seven, Like there's
Speaker 3: no a little bit control your own schedule version.
Speaker 1: Of being a political strategist, like you have to be.
Speaker 3: That's you know, And what's so unbelievable to me about
Speaker 3: it and not that And I don't know what that
Speaker 3: kind of career is like because obviously mine's way more flexible.
Speaker 3: But like men don't have this issue. Yeah for the
Speaker 3: most part, you know, maybe some, but for the most part,
Speaker 3: women are the ones expected.
Speaker 5: I mean, first of all, we have to birth the child,
Speaker 5: we have to feed the child, we have to nourish it.
Speaker 5: But it's like all on us. And then it's then
Speaker 5: what then your husband gets to have this bus career
Speaker 5: and then you're like stuck like taking care of kids,
Speaker 5: and then one day they're ten and you're like, shit,
Speaker 5: I have nothing to do all day, Like what am
Speaker 5: I going to do?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: So I honestly very I'm very impressed with your podcast
Speaker 1: because I think it's so important for women to think
Speaker 1: about pivoting, like how do I turn my original career
Speaker 1: into something that works for me as a mother?
Speaker 3: That's been the piece that is the most fulfilling for me.
Speaker 3: And having these conversations of being able to see because
Speaker 3: I think that people sometimes write off their previous experience
Speaker 3: and saying, oh, well, it's not related to the thing
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about doing, or there's no way to translate
Speaker 3: those skills, or this doesn't translate. But to be able
Speaker 3: to get into the headspace where you can see, yeah,
Speaker 3: it might not be the same field, it might not
Speaker 3: even be the same terms, but the skills that I
Speaker 3: built are transferable. We live in a society now where
Speaker 3: there's social media, there's YouTube, Like there's so much access
Speaker 3: to people and to sell things that you can do
Speaker 3: and create in a different way than it ever was before.
Speaker 5: Like maybe you're good at baking, maybe you want to
Speaker 5: like have a YouTube channel on baking and then you
Speaker 5: see where it goes. It's better than not trying anything, right,
Speaker 5: if you're staying at home anyway. I mean, they're just
Speaker 5: like all, there's all these opportunities now. But I mean again,
Speaker 5: I think being a mother full time is probably way
Speaker 5: harder than what I do.
Speaker 1: It's too hard to be I'm going to do it
Speaker 1: too hard, Like I just can't deal. I just cannot deal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's way. I respect it. I really respect it.
Speaker 3: And I also feel like it's made me less judgmental
Speaker 3: that when I before I had kids, I was very
Speaker 3: judgmental of women who didn't prioritize their careers and didn't
Speaker 3: continue to work after they had kids. Like I have
Speaker 3: this very specific memory of seeing Nicole Wallace being President
Speaker 3: Bush's White House Press secretary and leaving after a year
Speaker 3: and saying that it was for personal reasons, and I
Speaker 3: remember thinking, how could she do that, Like she's betraying
Speaker 3: all of us, all of us women, Like she is
Speaker 3: the White House press secretary. How could she leave after
Speaker 3: a year and do it for personal reasons? And now
Speaker 3: I understand it more and I'm less judgmental, and I
Speaker 3: have a greater respect for the women men who do
Speaker 3: just First of all, they're very busy. It's really a lot,
Speaker 3: oh my god. And they utilize their skills in different ways.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, I think I never really understood it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like now I really do, especially as your kids grow
Speaker 1: up and you have to like have these hard conversations
Speaker 1: with them, you know, Like I'm at that age where
Speaker 1: my son is eight and a half and we have
Speaker 1: to have conversations about feelings and friendships and using his
Speaker 1: iPad and not. Like he has like group chats like
Speaker 1: FaceTime with like four different boys, and one of the
Speaker 1: boys was cursing a lot. Actually it was very scary,
Speaker 1: like bad words, like words, not just like fucking shit
Speaker 1: like bad words. And I'm like, okay, these are not
Speaker 1: And you know, that's a skill and I don't have it,
Speaker 1: so like I'm trying to figure out how to like
Speaker 1: have that skill.
Speaker 5: But I mean, listen, mothers, stay at home moms, I
Speaker 5: respect you tremendously.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, one of the things that I think
Speaker 3: about a lot with my son is how to raise
Speaker 3: a good sensitive boy who become a good sensitive man,
Speaker 3: Like right now. He is sensitive and he always has
Speaker 3: been sensitive. And I don't think that we have good
Speaker 3: models or even language for how we should be raising
Speaker 3: the kind of men that we want to see. Like
Speaker 3: we talk a lot about about like how do rethink it?
Speaker 3: And you know, like how to back up, but like
Speaker 3: starting from the beginning, is that something that you've addressed
Speaker 3: with your son.
Speaker 1: I grew up with a very very very warm Israeli
Speaker 1: father that hugged me and kissed me.
Speaker 5: To this day, he like smooches my face. I'm like,
Speaker 5: I'm not four. You have to stop like he does
Speaker 5: it on camera.
Speaker 1: But I remember, and I still like believe this that
Speaker 1: he would always say all you need is love. You
Speaker 1: need nothing else. You could have nothing, but if you
Speaker 1: have love, that's everything. So I think like if you
Speaker 1: just like overwhelmingly love your kids and like smother them,
Speaker 1: it keeps them grounded and sensitive and in a way
Speaker 1: that carries through. I really believe that as cheesy as
Speaker 1: it sounds, as cheesy as it sounds, you find that
Speaker 1: in your family that the boys are still able to
Speaker 1: access that sensitive So absolutely they're super loving, they're super caring.
Speaker 1: My dad was just like such like a warm, teddy bear, loving,
Speaker 1: loving man. And they're all sweetest boys. You know, they're
Speaker 1: really like amazing. If you need them, they'll be there
Speaker 1: in two seconds. And they're not perfect obviously, but they're
Speaker 1: like they're just great. They're great men. I'm very proud
Speaker 1: of my brothers. So sweet, they're great. But I really
Speaker 1: believe that.
Speaker 3: I really believe that as a parent, Like, and I
Speaker 3: think we're also society now, especially where there's like also
Speaker 3: on Instagram or all these targeted things like don't yell
Speaker 3: your kids, don't put them in.
Speaker 1: A time out, don't do this, You're going to damage
Speaker 1: your kids. Do you get those targets? Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I do put my kids in time out.
Speaker 5: I mean true, Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it. But
Speaker 5: however you do things is how you do them. And
Speaker 5: as long as you keep showing your kids, I think
Speaker 5: like love and affection and those things that are important
Speaker 5: for them for their soul, whatever whatever tactic you use
Speaker 5: to get them to like stop climbing up your pantry
Speaker 5: is okay.
Speaker 1: Right, No, I totally agree with you.
Speaker 3: I think that there's I think there's like we are
Speaker 3: raising the first generation where there's gonna be like a
Speaker 3: little bit of a confusion, Like I do believe in
Speaker 3: some version of gentle parenting for some children. Yeah, like
Speaker 3: in fact, some of my own children and some of
Speaker 3: my own children, it does not work with right but
Speaker 3: also holding high standards and holding them accountable for their actions.
Speaker 3: Like I worry that we're a little bit over correcting
Speaker 3: and gentle parenting so that we're not holding children accountable
Speaker 3: for their actions.
Speaker 1: I agree with you that it depends on the kids. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1: That being said, like it's not a free for all.
Speaker 1: There are rules, and the minute that they decide that
Speaker 1: there aren't, or they're taught that there aren't, they will
Speaker 1: not follow rules for I think for the rest.
Speaker 3: Of their lab I know that, Like everything is for
Speaker 3: negotiation nothing. Yeah that and you know a teacher taught
Speaker 3: me this actually this year where my son is a negotiator,
Speaker 3: like big time, all my kids are, but my older son,
Speaker 3: I mean he learns.
Speaker 1: It from us, from both negotiating. I was aware, do
Speaker 1: they possibly?
Speaker 5: I mean all we do is negotiate with each other, abe,
Speaker 5: and I like, I'll be like, can I have a
Speaker 5: massage people on my back?
Speaker 1: Is? So what am I gonna get?
Speaker 3: Everything is a negotiation, But one of the teachers who
Speaker 3: were talking about and they were like, you know, LEVI say,
Speaker 3: he's not like having trouble listening, but like a couple
Speaker 3: of things here and there have happened. They're like, you know,
Speaker 3: we find that strong boundaries work with him.
Speaker 1: If you say no, just stay, stay with it, stay
Speaker 1: with the no, do not shift, do not say if
Speaker 1: he does this, you said no the first time and
Speaker 1: that's it.
Speaker 5: And I and I put it into practice in it
Speaker 5: like changed him. Yeah, it changed him, Like I say
Speaker 5: no and that's it.
Speaker 1: He moves on. Yeah, totally. And I think it really
Speaker 1: does depend on the kid.
Speaker 3: Like I feel like, yeah, with my older two, they're
Speaker 3: all a little bit negotiators, but they understand like Okay,
Speaker 3: I think I see that you've had a well formed
Speaker 3: argument here, Like I'm willing to go for it. With
Speaker 3: my third one, she will just push every boundary possible
Speaker 3: and so no needs to be now. Yeah, otherwise I'll
Speaker 3: regret it for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting. Yeah, that's that's another I think that's.
Speaker 3: A really important tip for parents, Like they're not all
Speaker 3: the same, you know, like you have to treat each
Speaker 3: one as the individual that they are, yeah, And I
Speaker 3: explain it to my other kids, So why can that
Speaker 3: one do something when this one? And I'm like, well,
Speaker 3: you don't listen so much, so that's why you're a
Speaker 3: little bit of a better listener.
Speaker 1: Then I can trust you are, yeah. And also being honest,
Speaker 1: like some of my kids are more honest than others.
Speaker 1: If you're more honest, you'll get more. Yeah, we've started
Speaker 1: to enter that phase too.
Speaker 3: Just to wrap up, what is one thing We're going
Speaker 3: to do a big overview here, okay, but what is
Speaker 3: one thing that you think that at the time you
Speaker 3: saw it's like a real negative, a kind of a
Speaker 3: low point, and you weren't sure how you were going
Speaker 3: to get out of it, and that now in retrospect
Speaker 3: you see that it really launched you.
Speaker 5: My failing handbag business. There you go. It was the hardest.
Speaker 5: People don't know this about us. Nobody asks. I feel
Speaker 5: like people assume that I am like I mean, they
Speaker 5: say this on the show too, Like then I'm like
Speaker 5: this trust fund kid, and like everything's perfect. I went
Speaker 5: through a really hard time where I started a fashion
Speaker 5: business and then my husband left his firm and he
Speaker 5: worked there, very big firm at the time to start
Speaker 5: it with me, and we had it. It was going
Speaker 5: for years and years, and it was always like we
Speaker 5: were always like catching up. Fashion business is so incredibly hard.
Speaker 5: We were making leather handbags like, we didn't have anyone
Speaker 5: behind us. We didn't know what a strategic investor was like.
Speaker 5: We didn't know anything back then. But it got to
Speaker 5: a point where our car got literally repossessed, like I
Speaker 5: saw it taken like we couldn't afford the car like
Speaker 5: it like, and we were too proud to go to
Speaker 5: our parents and they did help us a little bit.
Speaker 3: But weren't going to like keep asking for help. But
Speaker 3: we put ourselves in that position, so we had to
Speaker 3: crawl out of it. And I remember there were certain
Speaker 3: times where when we were going through it, I was like,
Speaker 3: I'll never get out of this, but I knew that
Speaker 3: I would, and.
Speaker 1: He was very positive, always so positive.
Speaker 3: But it was the lowest part of my life, yet
Speaker 3: somehow it turned into the most incredible experience ever. From that,
Speaker 3: I started my design build firm because I knew how
Speaker 3: to like market do market research and and design really
Speaker 3: you know, a trend forecast from my history and fashion.
Speaker 3: And my husband started his law firm that did incredibly,
Speaker 3: incredibly well, and we just learned how to be business owners.
Speaker 3: It was like the most we always joke was the
Speaker 3: most expensive.
Speaker 5: Degree that we ever got, because we both have, you know,
Speaker 5: degrees after we went to college, but hardest experience.
Speaker 1: Best thing we ever learned. Do you think there was
Speaker 1: a change in perspective for you? Absolutely.
Speaker 5: I knew what it felt like for so many Americans
Speaker 5: to go through failing businesses. I understood what it felt
Speaker 5: like to have children and not know if you could
Speaker 5: like pay the bills. Like I never thought I would
Speaker 5: be in that position. I come from a comfortable family and.
Speaker 1: So does Abe. But we saw what that was like,
Speaker 1: and it's incredibly hard, you know.
Speaker 5: And I think having friendships, having people to talk to
Speaker 5: about it, you know, being able to like to fall
Speaker 5: back on the people that were closest to us really
Speaker 5: got us through.
Speaker 1: And having each other got us through. But also, more
Speaker 1: than anything, just knowing that you would get through.
Speaker 5: Inside of myself, I knew somewhere beneath it all that
Speaker 5: I would get through it, and I think it gave
Speaker 5: me the courage to actually like crawl out of the
Speaker 5: hole we were in.
Speaker 1: What have we not covered that we should. I think
Speaker 1: we've covered a lot. You better watch the show July
Speaker 1: sixteenth on the premiere. Thank you so much, Erin for
Speaker 1: coming on with us. Been really fun, really really fun.
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to this candid convo episode off she Pivots.
Speaker 3: Check back in weekly for more conversations with inspiring women.
Speaker 3: To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram
Speaker 3: at she pivots the podcast. Leave a rating and comment
Speaker 3: if you enjoyed this episode to help others learn about it.
Speaker 3: A special thank you to our partner Marie Claire and
Speaker 3: the team that made this episode possible.
Speaker 1: Talk to you next week.
Speaker 3: She Pivots is hosted by me Emily Tish Susman, produced
Speaker 3: by Emily eda Veloshik, with sound editing and mixing from
Speaker 3: Nina Pollok, and research and planning for Christine Dickinson and
Speaker 3: Hannah Cousins.
Speaker 1: I endorse che Pivots