Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing.
Speaker 1: Today's program was recorded live at the Two River Theater
Speaker 1: in Red Bank, New Jersey. People always ask me, especially
Speaker 1: at my age, I get a lot of age related comments. Now.
Speaker 1: They always asked me who would you like to work with?
Speaker 1: It you didn't get to work with? And I always say, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, William Holden and Barbara Stanwick and uh Carrie
Speaker 1: Grant and uh, you know, people like that and and
Speaker 1: people who are of my own generation, give or take.
Speaker 1: I don't really, I mean I admire some of them,
Speaker 1: and I don't They've done a lot of them who
Speaker 1: I think I'd crawl over broken glass to work with,
Speaker 1: you know. But there are a few. There are a
Speaker 1: couple of people who their career and the work they've
Speaker 1: done and the way they've lived their lives in addition
Speaker 1: to the to their careers has always been so um
Speaker 1: just inspiring is the word. You know. There's there's not
Speaker 1: many of them, you know, and uh, and one of
Speaker 1: them is the gentleman I'm gonna introduce, so someone I've
Speaker 1: admired my entire life. When I first came to New
Speaker 1: York to go to school in nineteen seventy nine. Soon thereafter,
Speaker 1: you know there's the Paul Davis posters of this guy
Speaker 1: playing Hamlet in New York. This was that you were
Speaker 1: told was you know you wanted to be this guy.
Speaker 1: You know he was like one of four or five
Speaker 1: people this is you wanted to have a career like
Speaker 1: so please welcome Kevin Klein. M What was it that
Speaker 1: was in the an interview? I read that you said
Speaker 1: there was the guy from Juilliards and we taught you
Speaker 1: the guy that taught you this the fencing, he taught
Speaker 1: you how do you is a walking stick? And they
Speaker 1: told you when elizabethan bow? And what's the other kind
Speaker 1: of bow? He taught you, jackolbe any kind of about
Speaker 1: We learned to bow in every single period, restoration, restation, restoration, bow,
Speaker 1: give pick one that's your favorite. Let me see restoration.
Speaker 1: I'd have to go back to my notebook. Let's have
Speaker 1: you appause again, and I remember this bow. This was
Speaker 1: like I don't remember the period, but I thought it
Speaker 1: must have been very silly. My favorite. Someone told me
Speaker 1: that Olivier had a bow where he'd come in and
Speaker 1: he'd taken the house right and then he come over
Speaker 1: and taken the house left, and then he had what
Speaker 1: he called the crush of humility, the crush of humility,
Speaker 1: um in your voice, training and so forth at school
Speaker 1: and beyond what is the St. Louis accident that you've
Speaker 1: got rid of? How do people and saying there was
Speaker 1: talk oh uh, you know I I thought I didn't
Speaker 1: have an accent. I thought, well St. Louis is very
Speaker 1: neutral it And but what they do with Juliard is
Speaker 1: when you get there the day you arrive, as they
Speaker 1: tape you saying a bunch of sentences and then at
Speaker 1: the end of the first year and they play it
Speaker 1: back to you and you do and you start screaming
Speaker 1: in horror at how regional you sound. And Edith Skinner,
Speaker 1: who was who wrote the book, which is the the
Speaker 1: textbook used by every everyone that I know, every every
Speaker 1: drama school. And one of the one of the students
Speaker 1: said Edith, when I went home at Christmas, all my
Speaker 1: friends said I sound affected and phony, and she said,
Speaker 1: change your friends. Now. When you grew up, your dad,
Speaker 1: I mean all the bio was there and there and
Speaker 1: they enter webs everywhere. Um that your dad owned a
Speaker 1: music store and he was an opera singer. He's a
Speaker 1: trained singer. And you describe your mother as being a
Speaker 1: very theatrical character quote unquote. Was she an actress? Never?
Speaker 1: Never know? She was very colorful, she was very dramatic
Speaker 1: of Irish descent. And yeah, and you were went to
Speaker 1: Indiana from music. Yeah. I went there to study music
Speaker 1: two years, and then I realized the degree of mediocrity
Speaker 1: I had achieved. What you were more like your mother
Speaker 1: than your father. You're more actor than a musician. No, no,
Speaker 1: I was a terrible actor. But I thought, this is hopeless.
Speaker 1: I could see my whole future before me, and it
Speaker 1: was utterly mediocre musically. Musically, I said, you'll be a band. Oh.
Speaker 1: In high school, I was playing rock and roll, which
Speaker 1: is part of the problem. When I went to study
Speaker 1: serious music, I had spent too much time, uh playing
Speaker 1: sock hops and bar Mitzvah's Um so yeah, rock and
Speaker 1: roll was my was my demise. But um no, I
Speaker 1: just I could see that I wasn't. I started too late,
Speaker 1: and I didn't have the discipline. And I thought, well,
Speaker 1: what's did someone tell you you were talented as an actor?
Speaker 1: When I started doing plays in the theater department, all
Speaker 1: my musician friends would say, I saw you in the play.
Speaker 1: You should that's really good. You should do more of that.
Speaker 1: And when I would play the piano for my theater friends,
Speaker 1: they say, you really good. You should really stick with that.
Speaker 1: So I actually had to decide myself. And and they're
Speaker 1: from very humble beginnings, you know. I started doing small
Speaker 1: parts and worked my way up. Uh in the theater.
Speaker 1: What was theater and film in your childhood? Meaning were you,
Speaker 1: you know, writing poetry and you were very sophisticated when
Speaker 1: you were young, or were you watching mcchale's Navy like
Speaker 1: the rest of us on TV? The latter I'd say, yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I wasn't. I went to movies. I did not go
Speaker 1: to the theater much until I was in it. Huh.
Speaker 1: Really in college a lot of theater, but um, it
Speaker 1: was movies. I always wanted to I remember, not always,
Speaker 1: but maybe towards the end of my high school thinking, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd like to do that. That looks Did you really
Speaker 1: think that he wanted to do because you know, this
Speaker 1: was in the sixties when being cool was everything. You know,
Speaker 1: he had to be like Paul Newman in hud He
Speaker 1: had to be cool and heartless, and and I had
Speaker 1: massed heartless, heartless? Did you see hud I saw, yeah, heartless?
Speaker 1: Roll down the windowhood? Where was it melt? Melvin Douglas?
Speaker 1: Melvin Douglass? But he was an idol. But anyway, I
Speaker 1: was so cool, and I thought I could never be
Speaker 1: an actor because I I feel nothing. I remember my
Speaker 1: first acting class at at at Juilliard. I mean, I
Speaker 1: had taken some acting classes in college. But I remember you.
Speaker 1: Did you ever do those emotional re holes? Of course?
Speaker 1: And I want you to recreate a time when you
Speaker 1: were really, really angry, and I said, I've never been angry.
Speaker 1: I've never been angry. That's the first year. You're gonna
Speaker 1: have to give me a minute here the fact angry? Now? Now?
Speaker 1: Did you? But but how did you go? I mean
Speaker 1: because obviously people as to this day think of Juilliard
Speaker 1: is this great temple of arts education. And when you
Speaker 1: how do you go from Indiana and you're not sure
Speaker 1: you're an actor? How the hell did you get into Juilliard?
Speaker 1: I asked myself the same question, because a career a
Speaker 1: huge accident. Is it like it's pretty much? But no,
Speaker 1: it is. I think I think chance comes into it
Speaker 1: quite a bit and being at the right place at
Speaker 1: the right time, because I joined Juilliard in the third
Speaker 1: year of the four year program. That year they decided,
Speaker 1: we need so we have thrown so many students out
Speaker 1: and so many have left in desperation. Did we now
Speaker 1: have like twelve actors left out of the original thirty five.
Speaker 1: We need to fill out the class. So they brought
Speaker 1: in David Ogden Styres and me and Mary Joan Negro
Speaker 1: to fill it in. And they brought me in because
Speaker 1: they and they told me that we need a leading
Speaker 1: man because we have all these character actors. And then
Speaker 1: they gave me character parts really because that was the
Speaker 1: whole the part of the training was to be the
Speaker 1: complete actor and to play character roles. And were you
Speaker 1: frightened when you were there? Did it scare you at all?
Speaker 1: Was it intimidating? Yes? And yes and no. I I
Speaker 1: had sort of. I've done it for two years. Well
Speaker 1: I did while I was in music school. That was
Speaker 1: part of the problem. But I did it heavily my
Speaker 1: last two years of college and was actually part of
Speaker 1: a group that we formed our own company off campus
Speaker 1: and had our own theater and it's night and day.
Speaker 1: I was always I was doing a play in the
Speaker 1: main stage at the University Theater and also working at
Speaker 1: the in this little coffeehouse theater, doing satirical political reviews
Speaker 1: every week and improv. And we had a playwright and
Speaker 1: we started doing his plays. Um and so I had confidence.
Speaker 1: I didn't didn't really deserve it. You didn't come from nowhere.
Speaker 1: I mean when you got to Juliard, you've done some theater. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so and so were you in Juilliard? What do
Speaker 1: you I mean, this is a kind of a you know,
Speaker 1: a lazy question, but what what did you take away
Speaker 1: from that? What are your memories of what it did
Speaker 1: for you? What did it do for you? Well, it
Speaker 1: certainly polished me. I mean you asked me what my St.
Speaker 1: Louis accident was. St. Louis has a kind of lateral.
Speaker 1: You know, those are fantastic pants you're wearing, man um
Speaker 1: now with those are fantastic pants. Those official the trousers
Speaker 1: and other pants. You learn not only how to pronounce
Speaker 1: the words correctly, but what are the correct It was
Speaker 1: a brilliant trousers, It's wonderful, but they but the verse,
Speaker 1: how to how to parse verse and break a breakdown
Speaker 1: of Shakespeare scene before it breaks you down, and and
Speaker 1: a lot of movement. I was very very very tight.
Speaker 1: I was an athlete in high school. UM, and I could,
Speaker 1: you know, catch balls and things like that, but I
Speaker 1: couldn't when I was acting. I was very stiff all
Speaker 1: through college. And I was said, you know, I said,
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do with my hands. You
Speaker 1: know all that you know? Um and Juilliard suddenly they said,
Speaker 1: we're now come first thing in the morning with leotard
Speaker 1: and tights. Oh no, no, I I don't do leotards
Speaker 1: and tights. I don't know what sort of modern dances,
Speaker 1: kind of movement with an a Socolo who was a
Speaker 1: student of Martha Graham's brilliant UM choreographer. And I'm an
Speaker 1: amazing teacher. UM. And so anyway, the short answer is, Um,
Speaker 1: I learned to loosen up physically and disinhibited, become more
Speaker 1: disinhibited physically. And now people people say, you really move
Speaker 1: your hands a lot like a European actor. Um. But anyway,
Speaker 1: that's beside the point. But but but but it loosened me up,
Speaker 1: and it polished my speech, and it made me appreciate Um,
Speaker 1: Shakespeare much more. And listen any great conservatory, whether it's
Speaker 1: music or drama or dance. It gives you a protected
Speaker 1: place to practice your craft. And protected. When I say protected,
Speaker 1: I mean it's never more competitive. Once you get out
Speaker 1: as it was then and get up in front of
Speaker 1: the class to do a scene is much scarier than
Speaker 1: an opening night on Broadway. Uh, but um, it is
Speaker 1: protected and you get to you learn by doing it.
Speaker 1: Is for how many people here clap if you're studying
Speaker 1: acting now or you had studied acting to the few
Speaker 1: people when you were there? Did you? Uh? Was it
Speaker 1: very production oriented? Did you do shows? Is? When I
Speaker 1: went to n y U for the Little for the
Speaker 1: brief time I was there, like a year and a half,
Speaker 1: it was the opposite. They were like, you know, you
Speaker 1: are nothing and you don't get the show to the
Speaker 1: Foy and you are nothing, lay on the floor and
Speaker 1: just breathe for three years, practice breathing. You know, not
Speaker 1: very production But was it? Juilliard is exactly the same.
Speaker 1: But I missed those first two years they missed the
Speaker 1: lion on the floor here by by no by going
Speaker 1: into the third year, it became really production oriented. Costumes,
Speaker 1: makeup sets, Yeah, the whole plate. You were assigned a
Speaker 1: role and you did it. I missed those days. Um
Speaker 1: but um yeah, before then you did something in a
Speaker 1: studio with maybe a prop, but it was just about acting,
Speaker 1: pure acting. And I missed all that. And when you
Speaker 1: got out of there, what was the gap between that
Speaker 1: and doing the soap opera? You left Juilliard and you
Speaker 1: were on the soap opera? How long? Three or four years? Oh? God, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no. I was in the I was in the
Speaker 1: acting company for four years, which was a company. I
Speaker 1: was in the first graduating class of Julliard. John Houseman said,
Speaker 1: I just can't bear the idea, with all this training
Speaker 1: that we've given you, that you're gonna go off all
Speaker 1: of you are going to go out and do soap
Speaker 1: operas or sitcoms or movies, credit card commercial credit card commercials, podcasts,
Speaker 1: so whatever. Um so, I'm going to form you into
Speaker 1: a company. And he formed us into the actor We
Speaker 1: were handed equity cars and put on a bus and
Speaker 1: we went and did the four plays that we had
Speaker 1: done in rep in our senior year and towards the country.
Speaker 1: I did that for four years, during which John Houseman
Speaker 1: won an oscar for the paper Chase and then started
Speaker 1: doing sitcoms and commercials and all the things he forbad
Speaker 1: us to do. So anyway, and so I got out
Speaker 1: of the I forced myself out of the acting company
Speaker 1: that I've got to face reality and learn how to
Speaker 1: really wait tables, you know, and do what actors do,
Speaker 1: and pay my dues tables I never did. UM. It
Speaker 1: was such a rare and wonderful gift to have here.
Speaker 1: What what it used to be in the days of
Speaker 1: Olivier and Gilgood and those guys. You'd finished drama school
Speaker 1: and you'd go off to a rep company to Birmingham
Speaker 1: or wherever, and you would learn, you would do rep.
Speaker 1: You would do a lot of plays. And that's what
Speaker 1: we did. UM and I did four years of UH play.
Speaker 1: We do a little season in New York and spend
Speaker 1: the rest of the year touring and UH. There's just
Speaker 1: no experience like it. You just really learn stuff, whether
Speaker 1: you whether you like it or not. But I finally
Speaker 1: had to leave that sort of take on the responsibility
Speaker 1: of a proper career outside the acting company. So UM,
Speaker 1: I did nothing for nine months. I was starving. UM.
Speaker 1: I was doing awful Broadway UM and they would pay
Speaker 1: me subway fair. You know this, they pay for my subway. Um,
Speaker 1: but in those days, you would invite an agent to
Speaker 1: come and see you in your showcase production. That that's
Speaker 1: why I would showcase. Then damn Street, I can't evenmber.
Speaker 1: I don't think the street had a name where I was,
Speaker 1: but I did. I did a bunch of I got
Speaker 1: a job standing by for Raoul Julia and Free Penny Opera,
Speaker 1: which was fantastic because I got I got to I
Speaker 1: had to watch the watch it every night. It was
Speaker 1: a wonderful production, directed by Richard Foreman, and I loved
Speaker 1: Raoul anyway. He never got sick, I never went on.
Speaker 1: But um, my point is that I also, having sworn
Speaker 1: never do a commercial or a soap opera, I got
Speaker 1: a part in a soap opera, Search for Tomorrow, Search
Speaker 1: for Tomorrow, and you played? I played, Would you read?
Speaker 1: And I owned a modeling agency for only the most
Speaker 1: ulterior of motives, surrounded by beautiful and they needed your guidance,
Speaker 1: so I took them under my wing, as it were
Speaker 1: Haines's character. But I remember saying the first I say, please,
Speaker 1: can we come up with another name? Because I have
Speaker 1: to say my name, and to say, would you read
Speaker 1: it's going to come out ready wood or woodwind, flatulent
Speaker 1: or what what do you read? It's just as hideous name. No,
Speaker 1: that's your name. Okay. So I did that for one
Speaker 1: year and it was great because I worked out once
Speaker 1: a week and I could continue doing my off of
Speaker 1: Broadways and standing by for Raoule and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: And then I got a part in a musical and
Speaker 1: the rest is History, and the rest is history, which
Speaker 1: a hecked m well yeah, and a bunch of people.
Speaker 1: It was a musical based on a play that you
Speaker 1: did magnificently. I closed the Iron Door on I Closed
Speaker 1: the Iron Door and John Barramore did played this character
Speaker 1: on film with Carol Lombard. It was called twentieth Century,
Speaker 1: A brilliant film, Thank you and um. This was a
Speaker 1: musical version that help Prince directed. Comden and Green wrote
Speaker 1: the book and lyrics like Coleman wrote the music, and
Speaker 1: Madeline con and John Column I did a little little
Speaker 1: nothing in the play that the Oscar and uh and
Speaker 1: Lily Garland. Lily Garland, Uh, they are in the musical
Speaker 1: more featured than her young Lotharia and in the musical,
Speaker 1: it's different. In the musical, your part is a big
Speaker 1: the part you played the young boyfriend, and that was
Speaker 1: a huge part of the music. No, it wasn't. It
Speaker 1: wasn't it became a huge part. Do tell well it
Speaker 1: was a nothing part that I a friend of mine
Speaker 1: who turned down. My agent told me to turn it down.
Speaker 1: I turned it down. But when I was delivering the
Speaker 1: script back, Joanna Merlin, who was helped Princess was wonderful
Speaker 1: actress and a brilliant casting director, said, oh, are you
Speaker 1: sure you don't want to do this, because it's you know,
Speaker 1: it would be a great You'd be part of the family,
Speaker 1: and the part could grow in rehearsals. You know, you
Speaker 1: never know. Well, okay, I'll try it, and uh And
Speaker 1: I did it and the part did grow, and thanks
Speaker 1: to Madeline Cohn, who another action went He said, um,
Speaker 1: the guy who's doing all the stick and bouncing off
Speaker 1: the walls and doing all this stuff that's not written,
Speaker 1: could you fire him please? She didn't. In fact, she said,
Speaker 1: let's develop this, and we developed all this stuff and
Speaker 1: then we took the show out of town on thes like.
Speaker 1: Coleman wrote a song for me to do a duet.
Speaker 1: It grew and grew and grew, and I won a
Speaker 1: Tony award. Um, no, no, And it was who was
Speaker 1: Oscar and that John call Um? Come on, come on,
Speaker 1: come on, come brilliant? Yeah, And you did that for
Speaker 1: how long? One year? One year? And right for the
Speaker 1: I won the Tony. I left. I said, are you crazy?
Speaker 1: You just want to Tony? How can you leave? I said, well,
Speaker 1: is this a great part of this wonderful Michael Weller
Speaker 1: play they're doing down at the Arena stage in Washington waiting.
Speaker 1: You're leaving New York to go to and to go
Speaker 1: to Loose Ends. It was a play called Loose Ends. Um,
Speaker 1: and I love the play and Alan Schneider directed it,
Speaker 1: and then it moved to Broadway and I did it
Speaker 1: for nine months. But um, I was told I was
Speaker 1: crazy to do that. But does that become a guiding
Speaker 1: principle for you that you want to go do what
Speaker 1: you want to do that excites you, and you know,
Speaker 1: after you win the Tony, it's like we're done. Yeah. Either,
Speaker 1: I'd say it's a combination of doing what I want
Speaker 1: and being talked into things, Um, I don't want it,
Speaker 1: but then making the most of them. Have you ever
Speaker 1: been talked to I can pour and talk at the
Speaker 1: same time. Have you ever been talked into things? Many things? Yeah,
Speaker 1: something you were talked into well where people would say, oh, no,
Speaker 1: you've got to do that, You've got to it's only
Speaker 1: four weeks. And like Pirates Appenzance, I had done. I've
Speaker 1: done this very physical comedy in on the twentieth Century,
Speaker 1: and then I went off into this serious Michael Weller
Speaker 1: played for a year and then oh that was offered
Speaker 1: this silly Gilbert and Sullivan. I wasn't a huge Gilbert
Speaker 1: and Soul and Sullivan fan. And I was riding through
Speaker 1: the park on my girlfriend then girlfriend's bicycle and it
Speaker 1: was a beautiful day and four weeks in the park.
Speaker 1: What you know, how bad can it be? Um? And
Speaker 1: um I was. So I was riding my bike to
Speaker 1: my agents in order to turn it down. Um. The
Speaker 1: party had originally been offered to Raoul Julia and Raoul
Speaker 1: had to leave to go to Francis Coppola's Zootrope. Come.
Speaker 1: But he had a rep company and when you've had that,
Speaker 1: we first started the Zoo Trope and he had this
Speaker 1: literally repertory company. So Raoul had to bow out, so
Speaker 1: suddenly the part was open and anyway, I said, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll do it four weeks with the hell and then
Speaker 1: it moved to Broadway for a year, and then we
Speaker 1: made a movie of it and did you win another Tony?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. But it was a combination of it being
Speaker 1: a beautiful day and my agents ayn't come on, it's
Speaker 1: four weeks, Well why not? It won't won't kill you.
Speaker 1: At the beginning of a relationship with Joe, yes, well,
Speaker 1: I admit him because I carried his spear one summer
Speaker 1: before I ever started Juilliard. Um, it came came up
Speaker 1: early before September and got a job carrying a spear
Speaker 1: and other items and actors carried Charles Derning once with
Speaker 1: seven other guys. M on a beer anyway, several beers.
Speaker 1: Any case, Um, long story short, it's too late for that. Um,
Speaker 1: never mind what Joe Joe? Yeah, I met him, but
Speaker 1: I and then I met him. I met him when
Speaker 1: I was standing by for Rold Julia. I met him,
Speaker 1: but then when I did Pirates, then I met him
Speaker 1: and he kept saying nice to meet you, and I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, I didn't want to tell him
Speaker 1: that I had met it. Sure, but yeah, that's when
Speaker 1: I started. That was when he really met you and
Speaker 1: really I know you. Yeah, Oh, Joe Pap Joe Pap
Speaker 1: and describe what he was like when he first worked
Speaker 1: with him. Well, uh, I love Joe. I missed him
Speaker 1: every day. He became a mentor and a kind of
Speaker 1: strict but loving father guide mentor um, and I'm very
Speaker 1: He came to the dress rehearsal and Wilfred Leach, the durgor, said,
Speaker 1: now Joe is probably gonna give you all notes. Be
Speaker 1: sure to ignore them. And uh, and Joe said to
Speaker 1: me after the brother he said, you know, uh, the pirates,
Speaker 1: these are all gentlemen, their peers of the realm, you know,
Speaker 1: so it's all. They're very sophisticate, there's not They're not goofballs,
Speaker 1: you know. I went, That's that's all I'm doing is
Speaker 1: goofball you know. Um, that's all I got. So I went.
Speaker 1: I went to the director and to Grazilla Danielle de Carrever.
Speaker 1: I said, Joe says that the should be gentlemanly and dignified.
Speaker 1: They said, I told you not to listen to Joe
Speaker 1: because Joe he was right, um, but we had sort
Speaker 1: of gone another direction. Joe was Joe was great. The
Speaker 1: one thing that sometimes the notes you had to take.
Speaker 1: But but you know, any actor who's had enough experience
Speaker 1: knows to take any note from your director, from your
Speaker 1: best friend, from your wife, from your fellow actor, take
Speaker 1: it all with a grain of salt. I remember John
Speaker 1: Travolta called when they announced we're gonna make a movie
Speaker 1: of Pirates. Depend sense John Travolta apparently I heard called
Speaker 1: Joe and said I want to play the pirate king.
Speaker 1: And Joe said, we have our pirate king. That was Joe.
Speaker 1: Joe was utterly loyal and um and demanded loyalty and
Speaker 1: got it. And I would whether it was whatever, whatever
Speaker 1: play opening night, you'd come back and say, you say, okay,
Speaker 1: so next next year, what's it going to be? What
Speaker 1: are you ready to do Richard to or Hamlet or
Speaker 1: what do you want to do next? And he sort
Speaker 1: of exact a commitment and I needed that. And how
Speaker 1: soon after you do Pirates do you go to make
Speaker 1: your first films right after that? Right? Yes, it was
Speaker 1: right during Pirates of Penzance we were still running it
Speaker 1: on Broadway and Alan Pacola offered me the part in
Speaker 1: Sophie's Choice, and and and he said it was something
Speaker 1: he saw in Pirates of Penzance that made him want
Speaker 1: to cast me. And I wasn't about to talk him
Speaker 1: out of it, but I thought, what an imagination. And
Speaker 1: he was all, I couldn't have had a better first
Speaker 1: director for a movie. He totally indulged the actors. It
Speaker 1: was all, oh, yeah, the actors. We came on the
Speaker 1: set first thing in the morning. There's no crew, there's
Speaker 1: no shot that's been designed. It's like, what do you
Speaker 1: want to do? Shows where it shows? Show me where
Speaker 1: you want to go. And then he'd bring Nestor Elmendro
Speaker 1: is one of the great cinematographers, and the rest of
Speaker 1: the coup. Okay, watch this, and then we do what
Speaker 1: we wanted. Did you know Merril before the No, you've
Speaker 1: met her on that time? No, I met her once. Uh.
Speaker 1: She came back to stage after Pirates of Penzance. In fact,
Speaker 1: I think that's right, bet her. And did you I mean,
Speaker 1: you've done the soap, You've done no TV, other TV,
Speaker 1: you'd only done the soap and uh, and so when
Speaker 1: you're on the set a coola Nestor Admiral been making
Speaker 1: a lot of films by then. She's just done The
Speaker 1: French Woman and Cramer Versus Creamer, a couple of others,
Speaker 1: but she's that was her first, big, big, her most
Speaker 1: recent in Manhattan. Yeah. Yeah, And so when you do
Speaker 1: this film, do you like, are you sitting there saying
Speaker 1: to yourself, I wanna I'm gonna learn how to act
Speaker 1: differently in front of a camera. I remember Gracila Danielle,
Speaker 1: the choreographer for Pirates, because when we were as I
Speaker 1: said that the show was still going on Pirates, she said,
Speaker 1: you know, you can't do that, all that face stuff
Speaker 1: you do on film. You can't make those faces, okay.
Speaker 1: And other people have said, you know, it's film. Acting
Speaker 1: is completely different from age. Acting is say oh no, oh, dear, well, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll just give it a shot. Um. But I learned
Speaker 1: after a while that acting is acting. The audience is
Speaker 1: much closer on film, and in fact, you can do more,
Speaker 1: uh in some ways on film that you can't do
Speaker 1: in the in the theater because the first row wouldn't
Speaker 1: even hear you. Um but um, but it wasn't adjustment
Speaker 1: fear ye, well because but I'm saying this to be
Speaker 1: just flattering. I mean, you are someone who's done both
Speaker 1: at the highest level. You've given great, great performances in
Speaker 1: films and you've given great, great performances in the theater.
Speaker 1: But was it tough for you? Was it difficult fear? No? No,
Speaker 1: I didn't know. No, I mean it was scary because
Speaker 1: I thought, what if everything I've learned in the last
Speaker 1: whatever ten years of acting professionally on stage, if it's
Speaker 1: not applicable itself as a whole new skill set and
Speaker 1: I have to learn, it's going to be pretty daunting.
Speaker 1: But no, it was. And Pecula said, think of filmmaking
Speaker 1: as rehearsal, where you try at a bunch of different
Speaker 1: times and then I'm going to pick the best one.
Speaker 1: But that's what rehearsing is. And each day you work
Speaker 1: on a scene or two of the play in the film,
Speaker 1: you shoot a scene or two of of the thing,
Speaker 1: and you work on it and do it a few times,
Speaker 1: and you trust the director. And also he invited me
Speaker 1: to dailies. Did you find that helpful? Totally? And I
Speaker 1: am always taken aback when certain insecure directors don't want
Speaker 1: the actors to come to dailies because the first day
Speaker 1: I went, I saw, oh, the first of all, the
Speaker 1: way I was being lit was brilliant. Um, I mean
Speaker 1: that's the character, I thought. And then I would go
Speaker 1: to Pocula and I'd say, okay, the it was the
Speaker 1: the first take of the first take, the for the
Speaker 1: beginning was good, and then right in the middle it
Speaker 1: was like taking why did you say that take three?
Speaker 1: Right for for for the middle part and the ending
Speaker 1: I thought worked best in take four, and he said,
Speaker 1: I totally agree. And then I knew that we were
Speaker 1: on the same page as it were, and the what
Speaker 1: I was seeing and what he was seeing, that we
Speaker 1: were all in sync, that we were it was great. Actually,
Speaker 1: Meryl was a tremendous help. She remember once I was
Speaker 1: making a huge meal out of just me doing had
Speaker 1: to give Stingo, the character's name. I had to give
Speaker 1: him some money because he had been robbed, and I
Speaker 1: was doing, you know, you're a writer, you need this
Speaker 1: money in Biliba and I was just emoting, and she said,
Speaker 1: just just give him money and just or you can
Speaker 1: just say it, you know, just say it. You don't
Speaker 1: have to and and so yeah, probably, I guess I
Speaker 1: was doing too much. I know, I certainly was, but
Speaker 1: but I was helped by Pecula and U and Meryl.
Speaker 1: And what a great thing to have your first movie
Speaker 1: with a great director like Pecola. God, he was so
Speaker 1: such a spoiler. Who were some of the other directors
Speaker 1: even in the theater that helped you well. Jerry Friedman
Speaker 1: directed my class in school for Scandal when we were
Speaker 1: still at Juilliard, and then we went into our repertory,
Speaker 1: and then years later he directed to Live Danner and
Speaker 1: me in What You Do About Nothing in the Park.
Speaker 1: He was a wonderful director. Um and uh, I learned
Speaker 1: he was the first one like Pecula. Pecula did the
Speaker 1: same thing in terms of empowering the actor. Pecola would
Speaker 1: say to me, look, whatever we've talked about in this scene,
Speaker 1: what we think it's about, or what you know, what
Speaker 1: could happen if you get a different impulse during that scene.
Speaker 1: Forget what I said, forge at what we plan. You
Speaker 1: follow your impulses. The character was this psychopath and had
Speaker 1: to be unpredictable, and he wanted it to be as
Speaker 1: spontaneous as possible. And then again I was blessed with Meryl,
Speaker 1: who Meryl's. Meryl said don't don't. Don't be afraid you're
Speaker 1: gonna hurt me, because a lot of it was very physical.
Speaker 1: She said, you can't, which I took us a challenge,
Speaker 1: of course, but she was right. And and Picola said
Speaker 1: do what you want. And the same way Jerry Friedman
Speaker 1: on in the theater was the first director to say, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're just gonna sit around the table and read it,
Speaker 1: and when you feel like moving, get up and move.
Speaker 1: And pretty soon the tables are cleared away and we're
Speaker 1: moving around, and we're moving when we want to move.
Speaker 1: We're not waiting for the director to say you can
Speaker 1: now walk over there, now, put your hand in your pocket,
Speaker 1: now say it this way. Now, that's what And he
Speaker 1: was the and it was that empowerments like you decide
Speaker 1: what does this mean to you? What? What? How do
Speaker 1: you want to do this? And that that was the
Speaker 1: that was the key to for me, both on stage
Speaker 1: and film, and those directors, the directors I love. Larry
Speaker 1: Kastin is the same way Larry's how many movies have
Speaker 1: you made with Casson? Why what about him? He lets
Speaker 1: you contribute, He doesn't tell you what to do. He
Speaker 1: wants to see what you're gonna do, and he'll guide
Speaker 1: you back to the road if you've strayed too far
Speaker 1: afield and make a suggestion. But he loves actors. Peter
Speaker 1: Bogdanovitch told me a story about was it Howard Hawks
Speaker 1: or John Ford who directed Big River? Whoever did john
Speaker 1: Wayne was saying, Hey, this guy in Montgomery, Cliff, this
Speaker 1: new kid, he's got these big emotional scenes and I
Speaker 1: I've only got a you know, a couple of lines here,
Speaker 1: and I need I need some other big scenes. And
Speaker 1: he said, Duke, you need three good moments in the film.
Speaker 1: The rest of the time you just try not to
Speaker 1: annoy the audience. Kevin Klein has nailed that advice. Coming up,
Speaker 1: how we almost missed his surprise oscar Win and why
Speaker 1: his mom wasn't going to let that happen. Explore the
Speaker 1: here's the thing archives. I speak with Julianne Moore, who
Speaker 1: also spent some of her early years working on a
Speaker 1: soap opera. I used to do what they called emotional applicate,
Speaker 1: where if I had to say something that was really
Speaker 1: just plot oriented, I try to like cry on top
Speaker 1: of it or laugh on top of it. Or anything,
Speaker 1: just to make it mean something. Take a listen that
Speaker 1: here's the thing, dot Org. This is Alec Baldwin and
Speaker 1: you're listening to hear is the thing. A few big
Speaker 1: name actors managed to avoid Hollywood typecasting, but my guest today,
Speaker 1: Kevin Klein has that rare power to reinvent himself and
Speaker 1: delight audiences in the process. Compare his early role in
Speaker 1: Sophie's Choice with a later one like a fish cold Wanda.
Speaker 1: You know, once you start making movies or become a
Speaker 1: big star on Broadway or whatever it is, and you're
Speaker 1: offered things, you don't have to audition anymore, it's a
Speaker 1: terrible burden. Well it's it's it's a great, great it
Speaker 1: really is. No. But in in drama school, you're you're
Speaker 1: assigned or in the old meal days of the early
Speaker 1: days of movies, you were assigned a role. You're gonna
Speaker 1: play Red Butler and gone into it. Well all right, um,
Speaker 1: you know, and you just did it and did what
Speaker 1: you were told. But now you want to do this,
Speaker 1: so you want to do that, You want to do this,
Speaker 1: you want to do that. Uh, I don't know. You
Speaker 1: have to choose your you know, and you have to
Speaker 1: have people that can counsel you, was going to advise you.
Speaker 1: What's the movie like? Did you start to get excited
Speaker 1: about being in movies? And oh, god, I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: What's the one that you just said? God, I'm so
Speaker 1: excited I'm doing this movie Sophie's Choice. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: my first one. It was like insane. I was like,
Speaker 1: I can't believe this is unbelievable. I didn't I didn't
Speaker 1: have to start being the pizza delivery guy with one
Speaker 1: line and work my way up. I just was hit
Speaker 1: the ground running. I mean, I've been toiling desperately in
Speaker 1: the theater for ten years. And God rest his soul,
Speaker 1: and God love him, wanted an unknown. He didn't want
Speaker 1: any baggage. You wanted someone that you couldn't predict what
Speaker 1: they were going to do. And that's me. No one
Speaker 1: knows who the hell I am. What What do you
Speaker 1: think people hire you for. It's very tricky that sometimes
Speaker 1: you you you you become suspicious that it's for the
Speaker 1: wrong reasons. Because now the way the movie business works,
Speaker 1: a lot of times they would like can we use
Speaker 1: your name? Will you attach yourself to this movie? In
Speaker 1: the old days, like the movies green Lit, it's happening,
Speaker 1: you're offered a part. Yes, no, okay, Now it's will
Speaker 1: you attach yourself to this movie? And then if we
Speaker 1: get another a few people to attach themselves and they
Speaker 1: have a certain amount of guaranteed box office revenue in
Speaker 1: foreign sales, blah blah blah, we will be able to
Speaker 1: raise the money to make this movie. Okay. So a
Speaker 1: lot of times I think, well, they obviously just need
Speaker 1: some they just name for that. I'm not right for
Speaker 1: this part. They don't like my work, they hate me,
Speaker 1: they don't care about me, they don't love me. But
Speaker 1: it's like that with those you're in meetings now because
Speaker 1: the business is completely overtaken now by non creative people.
Speaker 1: They don't have any back on as writers or you
Speaker 1: know whatever, as producers. So everything is about gaming at me.
Speaker 1: I mean, the joke in Hollywood is you're having a
Speaker 1: meeting with him about, you know, the biography of Thomas Jefferson,
Speaker 1: and they said, who's gonna play Sally Hemmings And they're like, well,
Speaker 1: Sandra Bullick is gonna play how Sally Hemmings? I who
Speaker 1: else could they be? They complain, you know, I I mean
Speaker 1: it's so it's so cynical that way. When um, when
Speaker 1: I did the movie, Dave uh, I love that movie,
Speaker 1: me too. I love that movie, and I of course
Speaker 1: I turned it down first, but I was I was
Speaker 1: talked into it, and I'm glad I was. But Ivan
Speaker 1: Rightman told me, said, the studio is pressuring me to
Speaker 1: use Arnold Schwarzenegger. And I tried to explain to them
Speaker 1: that if you're Austrian, you cannot be President of the West.
Speaker 1: Of course, the irony is years later he became governor
Speaker 1: of California and probably could have run for president and
Speaker 1: may still who knows, But he just thought it was
Speaker 1: he had to kind of force me on the studio.
Speaker 1: And I'm glad he did. Now a movie, so I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: It's actually it's actually a fish cold wander, right, because
Speaker 1: the British, the British British, you shout out when you're
Speaker 1: expressing love and admiration. For Mr knew exactly a fish
Speaker 1: cold Wanda, which to an American here sounds like, well,
Speaker 1: how did the fish know how to use a telephone?
Speaker 1: Why would they you know? But that's the British, you
Speaker 1: know locution. Anyway, A fish cold Wanda. That part was
Speaker 1: written for me by John Clees. He wrote it. Have
Speaker 1: you known him before him? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I knew him. Um.
Speaker 1: We had met many times over the years and we'd
Speaker 1: always have dinner and we're talking. And then he did
Speaker 1: a little part in Silverado and we actually shared a
Speaker 1: house for a couple of weeks that he worked, and
Speaker 1: it was there when he told me he said, I'm
Speaker 1: thinking of a film, an idea, and I'll and he
Speaker 1: he actually told me he said, I've you know, a
Speaker 1: year or so later when he wrote the first draft,
Speaker 1: and he said, I've written something for you where you
Speaker 1: were the most evil person in the world and you
Speaker 1: were run over by a steamroller and you eat Michael
Speaker 1: Palin's Tropical Fish also sounds great. Um, let's do it, um,
Speaker 1: and never thinking it would ever get made or anything,
Speaker 1: and you want an Oscar for that film? I did
Speaker 1: you have an idea that you were going to win?
Speaker 1: Pardon me? Did you think you were going to win? Oh? God, no,
Speaker 1: you didn't. Not for a moment. I was actually rehearsing
Speaker 1: I Love You to Death in l A at the time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the problem. You see a smattering um, not that
Speaker 1: big a hit, but a wonderful movie. And I was
Speaker 1: working on my Italian accent for the role and UM,
Speaker 1: and the Oscars were coming up, and I was just
Speaker 1: very ensconced in that, trying to master an Italian accent.
Speaker 1: And then I said, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna stay home and work on my accent
Speaker 1: because we start shooting in four days whatever. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to go to the Oscars. Everyone tells me I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna win, apparently people who were following the odds
Speaker 1: makers or whatever. I said, you're not even a dark horse.
Speaker 1: You're not like oh and chemic cut never mind and um.
Speaker 1: And I'm rehearsing with River Phoenix, who's nominated also for
Speaker 1: UM Running on Empty. We're in the same category. And
Speaker 1: he's so sick. He was so sweet. I hope you win.
Speaker 1: I hope you win. You're so great in this movie.
Speaker 1: But anyway, so I'm nominated. I call my home and
Speaker 1: my mother says, we're all gathered around the TV tomorrow
Speaker 1: night to watch. And I said, Mom, I'm I'm not going.
Speaker 1: I got I got a lot of work to do.
Speaker 1: I'm doing this and I'm not gonna win, and I don't.
Speaker 1: I just it's a long evening, so I'm not gonna go.
Speaker 1: She said, who do you think you are? You'll go
Speaker 1: get right out there. You do exactly, and he went,
Speaker 1: I'm not tupsy. Though that was like okay, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll go. Um and then went, I won. I really
Speaker 1: I had. I was stunned when they said your name,
Speaker 1: I was stunn went I was sorry. It's a strange thing.
Speaker 1: Is a strange thing. I remember. I was presented the
Speaker 1: award by Sean Connery, Michael Caine and um, there were
Speaker 1: three Brits and Roger Moore and they were they were
Speaker 1: all They're presenting and doing Britt Britt jokes, you know.
Speaker 1: And then they said and the winner is Kevin and
Speaker 1: then they kind of ushered me off stage, and I
Speaker 1: just said the F word about twenty times, and I thought,
Speaker 1: why am I cursing? This is like a I couldn't
Speaker 1: believe it be it was. There was no contempt on camera, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you know, as they but I thought they must like
Speaker 1: I'm completely insane, and I just kept saying it just
Speaker 1: was a catch all word that covered a myriad of
Speaker 1: emotions from contempt to Disgraced and Rome as what's your head?
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, a scream out fun. I didn't
Speaker 1: know what it meant, and then I learned later on
Speaker 1: it meant nothing except that people Oscar and Kevin Klein
Speaker 1: um and that that was it. But but it didn't change.
Speaker 1: Oh didn't you change your career? No? I was didn't.
Speaker 1: Were you too offered more comedy rules? Yes? But I
Speaker 1: was being offered more comedy rules because I did a
Speaker 1: fish called Wanda, not because I want an Oscar for it?
Speaker 1: What what? What did you go shoot right after that?
Speaker 1: What movies did you make? Right of the one that
Speaker 1: I'd rather not discuss? Uh? But then I did? I
Speaker 1: Love You to Death? And the one you read discuss
Speaker 1: because you just didn't like making the movie wasn't fun.
Speaker 1: It was called The January Man it was it wasn't not. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it wasn't fun because I thought it was a comedy
Speaker 1: and they I don't think the director did. And I
Speaker 1: didn't realize that until halfway through. No, it was a John.
Speaker 1: So everyone's in an operating movement. You're going, yeah, what
Speaker 1: are you doing? Oh I'm a doctor. But but any way,
Speaker 1: you it was a John Patrick Shamley script, and Shamley
Speaker 1: is ironic, and you know, funny, everything's and funny. So
Speaker 1: I saw the whole thing as a satire. And the
Speaker 1: director we talked about it before doing it, and I thought,
Speaker 1: he but it is it didn't it didn't want you
Speaker 1: to do after that, I Love you to death, yea,
Speaker 1: which was the most fun maybe I've ever had. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, it was brilliantly funny script based on the
Speaker 1: true story of a guy who's white. He didn't see it,
Speaker 1: and I've seen love definitely. Who directed the film, Lawrence,
Speaker 1: has have you ever written any films or written any scripts? No?
Speaker 1: I rewrite. I do know, because we were talking earlier
Speaker 1: about both of us having worked on a soap opera
Speaker 1: that someone told me about about the second week, said,
Speaker 1: you don't have to say the lines that are written.
Speaker 1: You can rewrite any of this. No one cares, okay,
Speaker 1: And I started to learn I would because these lines
Speaker 1: were unutterably, inutterable, awful, horrible. So I did a lot
Speaker 1: of rewriting. I learned a lot about rewriting and now,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure you feel the same way, not only
Speaker 1: with comedies, but and it started with Sophie's choice. Meryl said,
Speaker 1: are you saying the lines has written? And I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: just you don't have to if it doesn't fit in
Speaker 1: your mouth, you know, and if it's you can. She
Speaker 1: saw me worrying about saying the line right, you know,
Speaker 1: and getting into the word perfect. And I was used
Speaker 1: to four or five weeks of rehearsal. We had three
Speaker 1: weeks of rehearsal for Sophie's choice. But Meryl didn't want
Speaker 1: to rehearse we want She wanted to, well, let's just talk,
Speaker 1: let's have it happen while the camera's running. Well that's interesting.
Speaker 1: But I didn't have that repetition that you get in rehearsals,
Speaker 1: so the lines. So she saw that I was struggling
Speaker 1: to just say, you know what you're saying. You can
Speaker 1: sprint in your own words. One of my favorite films
Speaker 1: of yours, I mean one of them, I mean there's
Speaker 1: a few, one of my favorite films. It was is
Speaker 1: In and Out, I Love, I Love not Move. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Was that a good experience for you? Was that a
Speaker 1: good experience for you? Yeah, it was a great experience.
Speaker 1: He was, yeah, great fun. And I mean Frank Ozz
Speaker 1: was terrific as a director, and Joan Cusack surprised. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just amazing. Everyone and Tom Selick, everyone was a delight.
Speaker 1: It was. It was most fun and and except for
Speaker 1: rare occasions, Frank ozz was that kind of my favorite
Speaker 1: kind of director, like show me what you want to
Speaker 1: do here he let us do your thing. Oh we
Speaker 1: am I mistaken? I don't think we mistaken? Are we
Speaker 1: going to take some questions? Here? Is that right? Do
Speaker 1: we do we have Mike? Do we have Mike's repet?
Speaker 1: Which one year? What's coming up? In your hand? If
Speaker 1: you have a question, who said what's coming up next? Okay,
Speaker 1: that's my stand un please, and you want to know
Speaker 1: for what's coming up next? For Kevin? Here we go, Kevin,
Speaker 1: what's coming up next? Did I say that right? Um? Nothing,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. I'm I'll be reading
Speaker 1: a script on the car home and my agent wants
Speaker 1: me to call right after I finish it because they're
Speaker 1: offering me a huge pay day. Another question for Kevin,
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Sat, thank you. Another question for
Speaker 1: Kevin Martory? How you no? And I remember I had
Speaker 1: a friend, a producer friend said, oh, you're gonna do
Speaker 1: a movie with John Clees and Michael Palin. From the
Speaker 1: part I mean that that's very British humor. It's not
Speaker 1: the same as our humor. And I said, I don't care.
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, I don't I don't believe
Speaker 1: in I think humor is humor. What's funny is universally
Speaker 1: funny if it's human um And I adored Monty Python
Speaker 1: for me the opportunity to work with Michael Palin and
Speaker 1: John Clees. I don't care if anyone sees it or
Speaker 1: any or if it sucks. I wanna. I want that experience.
Speaker 1: There was no question about doing it. I didn't know
Speaker 1: it was going to be a big hit. I didn't
Speaker 1: know while making it it was going to be a
Speaker 1: hit of any kind at All I knew was it
Speaker 1: was great fun to do. And my favorite day I
Speaker 1: think on this was one day when I was I
Speaker 1: got to direct John and Michael in a scene. I
Speaker 1: wasn't even in the scene, but by directing, all I
Speaker 1: did was remember in rehearsals you did this. It was
Speaker 1: much slower and it was much more excruciating when you're
Speaker 1: trying to get him to say cath Kart Towers and
Speaker 1: I think you're rushing, but if you slow down and
Speaker 1: and he did, and it it's in the movie. And
Speaker 1: I directed John Please and Michael Palin in comedy acting
Speaker 1: that was fun. Um uh. I wanted to say, um.
Speaker 1: I wanted to say a couple of quick things because
Speaker 1: we're out of time, and that is thank you to
Speaker 1: Kevin for making the time. But I'm under the impression
Speaker 1: you don't do a lot of this and U um no.
Speaker 1: But I mean, like a lot of press, I don't.
Speaker 1: I hate I hate interviews. I don't like them at all.
Speaker 1: And and but I want to say that, you know,
Speaker 1: in my lifetime, it's it's always the same thing comes
Speaker 1: back to me. And as that the people I've observed
Speaker 1: that I admire and you are, you know, surely one
Speaker 1: of the most admired actors in my lifetime in this business.
Speaker 1: And I want to say, but I want to say that,
Speaker 1: um that the people who are great like you can't
Speaker 1: be great, You just can't. You can be good if
Speaker 1: you have two of these. You can't be great if
Speaker 1: you have one of these. But if you have two
Speaker 1: of these traits, you can be good. But you can't
Speaker 1: be great. But you can really be great if you
Speaker 1: have all three of these traits for men, and that
Speaker 1: is masculinity, intelligence, and sensitivity, and you exhibit all those
Speaker 1: things in all the films that you've made, and you're
Speaker 1: really great. They're really a pleasure to watch your career.
Speaker 1: What was the middle thing? What was the middle thing?
Speaker 1: What was the middle thing? Yeah, it was intelligence. What
Speaker 1: I'm going to emasculated intelligence, sensitive, sensitivity. Ken. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much, Alec, Thank you all very much. Kevin Klein.
Speaker 1: We want more of you. Here's hoping that script you
Speaker 1: read in the car will give us that opportunity. Thanks
Speaker 1: to everyone at the Two River Theater in Red Bank,
Speaker 1: New Jersey, from making this possible. This is Alec Baldwin
Speaker 1: and you're listening to here's the thing two