1
00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:04,680
Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

2
00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,120
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, your

3
00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,840
Speaker 2: weekly podcast about stuff that I think is cool, done

4
00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:15,640
Speaker 2: by people. I'm a person. I'm Margaret Kiljoy. Also People

5
00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:17,680
Speaker 2: is Mia Wong him me.

6
00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:22,720
Speaker 3: A Hello, I am. I'm approximating a person for this one.

7
00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,520
Speaker 3: It's gonna be great. Got very little sleep last night.

8
00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:26,280
Speaker 2: It's good.

9
00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,160
Speaker 3: It's gonna be it's gonna be incredible, or we're gotting.

10
00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,280
Speaker 3: We're getting off the rails via here.

11
00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:32,960
Speaker 2: I was thinking when you're like, I'm approximating a person,

12
00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:34,360
Speaker 2: I was thinking it was like a gender thing like

13
00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,040
Speaker 2: a million years ago. My my friend was like, is

14
00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,239
Speaker 2: your gender identity, Wraith? And I was like, yeah, probably

15
00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,760
Speaker 2: that was more like my gender presentation. To be honest, I.

16
00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,040
Speaker 3: Mean it's a good one. They always always loved to

17
00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:47,600
Speaker 3: be raithing.

18
00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, obliterate the body while wearing cool floey black things.

19
00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,440
Speaker 2: Also a people is Sophie. Hi, Sophie, how are you?

20
00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:57,560
Speaker 3: Last time I checked?

21
00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:03,360
Speaker 2: I am a people. It's seems probable. Oukham's Razor says,

22
00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,399
Speaker 2: in fact, all three of us are people.

23
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, sometimes I'm a person. Some days I don't feel

24
00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:09,920
Speaker 3: that way.

25
00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:15,360
Speaker 2: I think I'm a person today, though, excellent. I'm willing

26
00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,760
Speaker 2: to always pretend on Mike that I am Chipper. No

27
00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:24,640
Speaker 2: one thinks I'm Chipper. Anyway, We're all here for part

28
00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,320
Speaker 2: three of a four parter about the Korean People's Association

29
00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,680
Speaker 2: of Manchuria and the much broader Korean anarchism around it,

30
00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:36,399
Speaker 2: and probably the most ideologically complexed episodes we've done on

31
00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:38,920
Speaker 2: this show. And we did the Russian Civil War.

32
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,880
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, this makes me long for the relative ideological

33
00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:48,160
Speaker 3: simplicity of the seventeen Green Armies. Yeah, exactly.

34
00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,840
Speaker 2: But before we get into that, we want to thank Rory,

35
00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,360
Speaker 2: our audio engineer, hi Rori Hiri, Hi Rory, And you

36
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,760
Speaker 2: want to think Unwoman who did our themis and you

37
00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,080
Speaker 2: can go listen to more of Unwoman's music. Some of

38
00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,880
Speaker 2: it as singing, some of it doesn't. Yay, so many things. Okay,

39
00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:12,000
Speaker 2: So the craziest thing happened in between recording parts one

40
00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,840
Speaker 2: and two and then now actually a week later. Sometimes

41
00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,120
Speaker 2: I pretend like, oh, here we are a week later,

42
00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,760
Speaker 2: it's like, actually a week later, now, the craziest thing happened.

43
00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:25,560
Speaker 2: I learned things. Wow, Usually I learned stuff, but this stuff,

44
00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,280
Speaker 2: I learned stuff in a cool way because I brought

45
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,320
Speaker 2: up a lot of questions that I felt unanswered by

46
00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,560
Speaker 2: my sources, right, and some of those questions a listener

47
00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,920
Speaker 2: messaged me and answered those questions. Oh wow, it rules,

48
00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,000
Speaker 2: So thank you, Joshua Kang. I'm going to talk about

49
00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:44,919
Speaker 2: some of those things that I learned, and then we'll

50
00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,600
Speaker 2: move on. Okay, So remember I was talking about the

51
00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,120
Speaker 2: Sillhack movement or the realism movement or the realist movement,

52
00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,160
Speaker 2: the like old timey folks, like before any other political

53
00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,240
Speaker 2: ideologies developed, where like a like maybe Catholic, maybe Confucian

54
00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,040
Speaker 2: guy was like, what if we all live in communes

55
00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,079
Speaker 2: and it's great? And I was like, I don't understand.

56
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,440
Speaker 2: One source says their Catholic, one sources their confusion, and

57
00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,760
Speaker 2: definitely a lot not Catholic. I found the answer. The

58
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:12,960
Speaker 2: answer is that they are both.

59
00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So as we've predicted, yes, exactly, I like

60
00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:19,760
Speaker 3: learning this one because I learned I was right with

61
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:20,360
Speaker 3: my guests.

62
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,160
Speaker 2: Joshua said that Silhak took a lot of influences as

63
00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,000
Speaker 2: a quote from the Catholics and had a lot of

64
00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,680
Speaker 2: Catholic members. Even the Catholic members of this group would

65
00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,480
Speaker 2: have considered themselves Confucians and so just people who thought

66
00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:35,360
Speaker 2: of themselves as both.

67
00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense, and it's like that's a thing

68
00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:43,240
Speaker 3: where I think what gets considered. I mean, you know,

69
00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,440
Speaker 3: obviously we talked about sort of Korean Christian syncretism, but

70
00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,400
Speaker 3: this isn't even that, because like it's not that hard

71
00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:55,880
Speaker 3: to sort of fuse Confucianism with like another kind of religion,

72
00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,440
Speaker 3: Like people in China do this all the time too,

73
00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,040
Speaker 3: where it's like or people move back and forth between

74
00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:05,360
Speaker 3: them rapidly and like between different sort of religious ideological filiations,

75
00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:06,800
Speaker 3: and then they also just are both at the same

76
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,720
Speaker 3: time and it's not like that difficult of a thing,

77
00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:11,760
Speaker 3: just because of sort of the nature of how Confucianism

78
00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:12,400
Speaker 3: is structured.

79
00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,320
Speaker 2: That makes sense because I've always I don't know enough

80
00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,040
Speaker 2: about Confucianism to be any kind of expert on it,

81
00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,680
Speaker 2: but I've like read about it many times, and it

82
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,240
Speaker 2: always seemed like it was like kind of a not

83
00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,800
Speaker 2: as like we are a religion and more of a

84
00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,159
Speaker 2: like we are a set of ways of thinking about things,

85
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:31,920
Speaker 2: and I don't know.

86
00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:37,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, the whole kind of religion, philosophy, ideology distinction gets

87
00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,920
Speaker 3: kind of gets really blurry, the further out you get

88
00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,240
Speaker 3: for the people who like developed it, which is like.

89
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,760
Speaker 2: So yeah and so yeah, I like that we were right. Okay.

90
00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,160
Speaker 2: The other thing another thing I learned, So I was

91
00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,240
Speaker 2: talking about how Korean anarchists set up a ton of

92
00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,120
Speaker 2: schools in China and Korea. Right, it turns out obviously

93
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,680
Speaker 2: Korean anarchists were doing this, but like this is sort

94
00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:05,920
Speaker 2: of a Korean cultural thing, Joshua said. Quote It's very

95
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,200
Speaker 2: much a cultural legacy of the Sian b which are

96
00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,000
Speaker 2: Hermit's scholars who would be disgusted with politics and set

97
00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,680
Speaker 2: up academies in exile so their students would one day

98
00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,160
Speaker 2: restore a righteous government. So it's like an anarchist thing

99
00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,360
Speaker 2: to specifically be like, we're going to go set up

100
00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,920
Speaker 2: schools in exile so that we can fix Korea, which

101
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,040
Speaker 2: is cool, Like that's a cool thing. Yeah, and there's

102
00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,600
Speaker 2: some in the US that were founded in a similar way. Huh,

103
00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,279
Speaker 2: not necessarily by anarchists. But okay. Another thing that I

104
00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:36,760
Speaker 2: learned that I forgot to write into my script, but

105
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:38,279
Speaker 2: now I remember off the top of my head, is

106
00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,000
Speaker 2: that one of the ways that I was talking about

107
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:41,960
Speaker 2: how Korea was like always between all these imperial powers,

108
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,640
Speaker 2: and it was sort of being traded back and forth.

109
00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,800
Speaker 2: Is a modern and slightly incorrect way of looking at

110
00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,440
Speaker 2: the far past of Korea, and that actually, when it

111
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:53,200
Speaker 2: was under Chinese influence, it was a very autonomous place.

112
00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it's always weird with So what are the

113
00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,480
Speaker 3: stories I always remember about, Like thinking about Chinese, especially

114
00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,800
Speaker 3: before like the eighteen hundreds, is like there are a

115
00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:05,599
Speaker 3: lot of records of people in like the fifteen sixteen

116
00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,880
Speaker 3: hundreds who are like European travelers who are in China,

117
00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,800
Speaker 3: and they ask the people that they're talking about about China,

118
00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:13,280
Speaker 3: and and then those people have no idea what the

119
00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,080
Speaker 3: fuck they're talking about, because it's like, well, no, I

120
00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,080
Speaker 3: don't live in China. I live in like this like place, right,

121
00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,240
Speaker 3: that's like any And like the sort of especially the

122
00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,600
Speaker 3: further out in the borders that you get, the sort

123
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,840
Speaker 3: of lines of control get really weird, and there's lots

124
00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,800
Speaker 3: of groups that are like technically under the dynasties. But

125
00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,760
Speaker 3: like in the most air quotes, I guess, okay, well,

126
00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,120
Speaker 3: in Italy, this oracle parallem about the draw here is

127
00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,080
Speaker 3: probably not that useful that many people, but it's it's

128
00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,760
Speaker 3: kind of like Egypt in the late Ottoman Empire, where

129
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:47,440
Speaker 3: like Egypt is like nominally an Ottoman thing, but I

130
00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,560
Speaker 3: mean I think they're actually more independent than that. But

131
00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,880
Speaker 3: like Egypt periodically just conducts its own form policy. It's

132
00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,279
Speaker 3: like basically like a self governing quality, but it makes

133
00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:00,279
Speaker 3: sense periodically kind of like yeah, I think that's like

134
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,680
Speaker 3: Chinese control over Korea is like even more nominal than

135
00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:05,480
Speaker 3: that a lot of the time.

136
00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And if the more I read like David Graeber

137
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,760
Speaker 2: talking about anthropology stuff, the more I was realized that,

138
00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,960
Speaker 2: like the ability to exert control over areas you claim

139
00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:21,480
Speaker 2: to own is a fairly modern technological development, like not

140
00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,120
Speaker 2: like modernism, like only in the eighteen hundreds or whatever, right,

141
00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,840
Speaker 2: but like different places had the technology to actually rule

142
00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,840
Speaker 2: the places that they theoretically ruled, and other places didn't.

143
00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,480
Speaker 2: You know, Like I'm under the impression Rome was better

144
00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:40,520
Speaker 2: at ruling England then English kings were after the fall

145
00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:41,880
Speaker 2: of Rome, you know.

146
00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's like like there's there's sort of bureaucratic

147
00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,640
Speaker 3: and all I mean literally sometimes also literally technology, but

148
00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,000
Speaker 3: a lot of it's like bureaucratic technology that you need to.

149
00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,880
Speaker 2: Like I mean technology like bureaucracy, I mean ways of

150
00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,720
Speaker 2: thinking and applying things, not like wheels that are around

151
00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:02,440
Speaker 2: her or something. Yeah. Okay, then the other note that

152
00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,720
Speaker 2: came up. Okay, So remember how I was like, well,

153
00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,560
Speaker 2: one source was like, well, they're all pretty nationalist, right,

154
00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:10,720
Speaker 2: and then there's that other source, that whole lass book

155
00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,880
Speaker 2: that's like, no, the Korean anarchist movement was super cosmopolitan

156
00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:18,240
Speaker 2: and transnational, right or made it blurry. Well, I'm now

157
00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,280
Speaker 2: going to make an argument back in the other direction. Unfortunately,

158
00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,720
Speaker 2: because we talked a bunch about that Korean anarchist journalist

159
00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,760
Speaker 2: and author Shinchweho who wrote the manifesto that was such

160
00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,240
Speaker 2: a big deal for like revolution Manifesto that I really liked.

161
00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:37,280
Speaker 2: It turns out his legacy is he as he aged,

162
00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,880
Speaker 2: became more and more of an ethnic ulter nationalist while

163
00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,840
Speaker 2: still remaining an anarchist, which unfortunate. I'd rather be abandon

164
00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,760
Speaker 2: the anarchism an ethnic culture nationalist.

165
00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:47,840
Speaker 1: Oh god.

166
00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,760
Speaker 2: And one of the things that they talked about in

167
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:58,800
Speaker 2: that Revolutionary Manifesto that they were against was servile thinking, right,

168
00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:00,880
Speaker 2: And when I read that, I was like, oh, I

169
00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:02,760
Speaker 2: just don't really know what that means in this translation,

170
00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:04,560
Speaker 2: you know, it's like one of those words where I

171
00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,560
Speaker 2: just hear it and I'm like, ah, okay whatever, Like

172
00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,600
Speaker 2: no one likes being told what to do. To quote

173
00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,160
Speaker 2: Joshua again, when he talks about servile thinking, it is

174
00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,160
Speaker 2: a reference to his nationalist thought that revolves around Korean's

175
00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,640
Speaker 2: being nomadic warrior peoples that were then made servile and

176
00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,960
Speaker 2: an effeminate by a Confucian elite and the Chinese. And

177
00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,160
Speaker 2: I'm no longer quoting this ties into the jeuch thing

178
00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,679
Speaker 2: that current North Korean philosophy. I know, you know what

179
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,720
Speaker 2: I'm talking about, but you know, for people don't remember.

180
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,520
Speaker 2: Because he wanted Koreans to be strongly and manly and

181
00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,599
Speaker 2: self sufficient, so that's like where the jew Cha comes from.

182
00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,600
Speaker 2: He also had a kind of manifest destiny kind of

183
00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,400
Speaker 2: thing going on about Manchuria, which isn't quite the best

184
00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,280
Speaker 2: parallel to make, right, but basically being like we should

185
00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:53,719
Speaker 2: take Manchuria as Korea is really puts the whole thing

186
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,360
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about about Korean exiles and Manchuria

187
00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 2: into a different light.

188
00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:03,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this is something that you see this

189
00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,280
Speaker 3: with like kind of someone to let stuff You see

190
00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,920
Speaker 3: this with like the Chinese communists too, where the ways

191
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:15,000
Speaker 3: that colonialism was understood can get very very messy, and

192
00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:19,319
Speaker 3: it can generate kinds of like reactionary anti imperialisms where

193
00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,640
Speaker 3: you have all of these people who you know, because

194
00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,319
Speaker 3: there's a sort of like leftist, like pure leftist read

195
00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,400
Speaker 3: of colonialism, which is sort of about like physical subjugation

196
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,320
Speaker 3: and domination and stuff like that. But there's also a

197
00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,680
Speaker 3: read of it, and this is something that's very popular

198
00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,000
Speaker 3: among sort of modern Chinese nationalists, for example, where it's

199
00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,480
Speaker 3: read as something that was like an emasculating force, something

200
00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,280
Speaker 3: that was read as like specifically an attack on masculinity,

201
00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:46,640
Speaker 3: an attack on like their specific patriarchal authority. And that's

202
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:52,200
Speaker 3: another you know, this is a strand of anti imperalism

203
00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,760
Speaker 3: that almost always gets mixed in with other kinds of movements,

204
00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:57,679
Speaker 3: and it sucks. And these people tend to be the

205
00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,679
Speaker 3: ones who take power after revalutions happened because they are

206
00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,800
Speaker 3: the warshort of conservative action. Yeah, and that kind of

207
00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,199
Speaker 3: nationalism is extremely powerful.

208
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,120
Speaker 2: That makes sense, and that ties into jewche being the

209
00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:16,160
Speaker 2: official philosophy of North Korea, you know. Yeah, Yeah, So

210
00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,319
Speaker 2: those are some updates where we last left our heroes.

211
00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,000
Speaker 2: The Korean Independence movement was doing its thing in all

212
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:24,439
Speaker 2: kinds of ways, and we talked about what it was

213
00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:26,760
Speaker 2: up to in China. Basically, it was embroiled in one

214
00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,720
Speaker 2: of the most complicated moments in political history ever, where

215
00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,079
Speaker 2: an ever shifting alliance of nationalists, communists, and to a

216
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,439
Speaker 2: lesser extent, anarchist was doing all kinds of stuff. And

217
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,000
Speaker 2: I was being grouchy that none of my sources got

218
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,160
Speaker 2: into the stuff I really wanted to know about, like

219
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,760
Speaker 2: the hospitals that they were running, the money that they counterfeited,

220
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,520
Speaker 2: and what Japanese imperialists they were exploding, and there is

221
00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,679
Speaker 2: some information about who they exploded available and stuff. Just

222
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,240
Speaker 2: nothing read like an action movie enough for me. But

223
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:57,160
Speaker 2: that's so Magpie of you. Yeah, yeah, there was probably

224
00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,959
Speaker 2: tunnels and no one mentioned. I'm sure they dug tunnels.

225
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:01,240
Speaker 2: I bet people broke out of prison.

226
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,079
Speaker 3: There has to have bend tunnels.

227
00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:08,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, while a ton of the more ideological rebels

228
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,080
Speaker 2: went to China and a ton of the fighters went

229
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,720
Speaker 2: to Manchuria, a lot of the Righteous Armies went to Manchuria. Oh,

230
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,439
Speaker 2: when I learned more about the Righteous Armies, and I'm

231
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:17,839
Speaker 2: not going to go back and add it because it's

232
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:19,640
Speaker 2: not relevant to a story. But I think I'm going

233
00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,680
Speaker 2: to be doing a couple episodes about the Righteous Armies

234
00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,800
Speaker 2: because they're interesting. Oh interesting haha, and like a bunch

235
00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,960
Speaker 2: of their music and the Dong Hack music is available

236
00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,200
Speaker 2: on YouTube. I also learned this from Joshua, Thank you Joshua,

237
00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:30,920
Speaker 2: and I listened to a bunch of it right before

238
00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:35,280
Speaker 2: we recorded. Anyway, an awful lot of students and workers

239
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,559
Speaker 2: went to Japan, so we're gonna talk about Japan. Japan

240
00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:40,880
Speaker 2: is an island. Now, I'm not going to do that.

241
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:44,560
Speaker 3: There's both of the islands.

242
00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:50,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. Japan was the most modernized country in

243
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,760
Speaker 2: East Asia during all this period and Tokyo. I was

244
00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,760
Speaker 2: learning about how Tokyo was originally seen as sort of

245
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,839
Speaker 2: a symbol of Asian unity against the West, but very

246
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:04,560
Speaker 2: quickly it was like through US imperializing everything. Yeah, Japan

247
00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,520
Speaker 2: is gaining power and things aren't perfect in their empire.

248
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,640
Speaker 2: They're getting a little spooked because anarchists keep trying to

249
00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:14,240
Speaker 2: kill their emperor. The Russian Revolution just happened, and there's

250
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,920
Speaker 2: this whole thing called the Rice Riots. Of nineteen eighteen

251
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,520
Speaker 2: caused by rice and the massive inflation of rice, and

252
00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,040
Speaker 2: if you ever want to hear more about not necessarily

253
00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:24,480
Speaker 2: this one. I don't know if you covered this one,

254
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,120
Speaker 2: but MIA did a whole series on food riots and

255
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,280
Speaker 2: why they're behind everything that happens ever on it could

256
00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,439
Speaker 2: happen here. Yeah, I do think we did the rice riots.

257
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,080
Speaker 3: I think we kind of I think I was kind

258
00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,520
Speaker 3: of soft on the problem with doing a series on

259
00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:42,600
Speaker 3: bread riots is that there's literally so many of them

260
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,040
Speaker 3: that you have to like, you have to pick your

261
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,920
Speaker 3: time periods, not even so much your specific riots.

262
00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:50,920
Speaker 2: It's oh yeah, no, I mean like we could start

263
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,880
Speaker 2: just a whole new podcast called the Great Food Riots

264
00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,800
Speaker 2: of History. I mean, like noting that down. And so

265
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,560
Speaker 2: the rice riots of nineteen eighteen were caused by the

266
00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,760
Speaker 2: massive inflation of the cost of rice, and this brought

267
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,960
Speaker 2: down the Prime Minister and it probably led to further

268
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,079
Speaker 2: we need creator send us more rice. So things aren't

269
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,800
Speaker 2: necessarily going great. Well, they're not going great for anyone,

270
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,800
Speaker 2: including the powers that be. The work studies students in

271
00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,440
Speaker 2: Tokyo were heavily influenced by anarchism, especially by Krapotkin. And

272
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,720
Speaker 2: soon they were publishing all their own newspapers and shit.

273
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,560
Speaker 2: The earliest you asked for the earliest Korean anarchists that

274
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,920
Speaker 2: I found, and the answer was these Koreans in Tokyo

275
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,720
Speaker 2: put out a journal called the Light of Learning or

276
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,960
Speaker 2: called Light of Learning. That journal talked about how tenant

277
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,440
Speaker 2: peasants should use direct action against their landlords. And I

278
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,320
Speaker 2: think that was like nineteen fourteen or something. But why

279
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,760
Speaker 2: would I write the year down in my script when

280
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:44,960
Speaker 2: I'm reading it? Who knows?

281
00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:45,240
Speaker 1: Well?

282
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,960
Speaker 3: Because who cares about years? They're they're boring's more explosions,

283
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,480
Speaker 3: less years. This is what American media has taught me

284
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,960
Speaker 3: about how people learn things. Well, see, eventually you care

285
00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,360
Speaker 3: enough about all the explosions. The only reason years are

286
00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,800
Speaker 3: interesting to me is that they're like the linkages, you know,

287
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,280
Speaker 3: They're like the part you can connect this thing to

288
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,000
Speaker 3: this other thing with the year. But without that context,

289
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,840
Speaker 3: they are a nonsense like all names are just nonsense

290
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,400
Speaker 3: words to me. They go in one a year and

291
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,800
Speaker 3: out the other, unless I like, really apply, I should

292
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,560
Speaker 3: remember that my friend's name is John, you know, like

293
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,880
Speaker 3: Otherwise it's just like they're just like meaningless whatever. I

294
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:24,800
Speaker 3: have a strange brain.

295
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,320
Speaker 2: But by the early nineteen twenties there are anarchist books

296
00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,160
Speaker 2: everywhere and groups are popping up all over the place.

297
00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,680
Speaker 2: It helped that even though they were students, the Korean

298
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,920
Speaker 2: work study students were rather dramatically oppressed along class, national,

299
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:41,920
Speaker 2: and ethnic lines, and they were forced to work the

300
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,240
Speaker 2: lowest wage jobs is in the city. They were like

301
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,720
Speaker 2: peddling in the streets distributing newspapers that kind of shit.

302
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,440
Speaker 2: When I say it helped, it helped radicalize them. It

303
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:55,280
Speaker 2: didn't help them with their lives to be happy or logged. Yeah,

304
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 2: Korean anarchists and communists together formed something called the BLA

305
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,800
Speaker 2: Black Wave Society in nineteen twenty one. But nineteen twenty

306
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,440
Speaker 2: one wasn't like the best year for left unity speaking

307
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:12,000
Speaker 2: of years tying shit together, ah, because this is the

308
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,560
Speaker 2: year that the Bolsheviks firmly crushed all leftist resistance to

309
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,440
Speaker 2: their dictatorship in Russia. So, for whatever reason, who knows,

310
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,120
Speaker 2: the communist and the anarchists and the Black Wave Society split.

311
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,320
Speaker 2: The anarchists formed the Black Labor Society, the communists into

312
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,400
Speaker 2: the North Star Society. Points to the Communist here, that's

313
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:31,960
Speaker 2: a better name.

314
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,880
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, definitely. I feel I feel like most of

315
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,000
Speaker 3: the names of anic descripts in Japan tend to be

316
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,480
Speaker 3: really good, but that one, we're working. We're kind of

317
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,760
Speaker 3: slipping there, guys, you gotta do better. But their journal

318
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:48,600
Speaker 3: name Ruled. The Black Labor Society published the journal The

319
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:54,160
Speaker 3: Recalcitrant Koreans at rips. We we love to see it. Yeah,

320
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:55,640
Speaker 3: good stuff on that part.

321
00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,480
Speaker 2: And they believe that the way to find the self

322
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,840
Speaker 2: is through metal aid with others, a thing that I

323
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:06,119
Speaker 2: also believe, and they wrote a ton of philosophy around that.

324
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,400
Speaker 2: Like I just really like when people are like, hey,

325
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,720
Speaker 2: the self and the community are not in contradiction with

326
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,840
Speaker 2: each other but instead work well. And they also, in

327
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,840
Speaker 2: something I'll continue to underline throughout this episode, wanted a

328
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,439
Speaker 2: cosmopolitan world where the border between Japan and Korea was gone.

329
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,000
Speaker 2: They wanted the inversion of the Pan Asian imperialist writings

330
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,560
Speaker 2: of colonial Japan, right because colonial Japan's like, oh, we're

331
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:34,000
Speaker 2: all Asian under Japanese rule, yeah, you know, and the

332
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,960
Speaker 2: anarchists were like, oh, we're all people under our own

333
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,320
Speaker 2: self governance, yeah, which.

334
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,719
Speaker 3: Which is interesting because I think I don't know, I mean,

335
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:48,040
Speaker 3: Pan Asianism kind of got killed off really fast, both

336
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,800
Speaker 3: by the fact that it was you know, in a

337
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,119
Speaker 3: way that sort of like Pan Arabisines and Pan Africanism

338
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,159
Speaker 3: didn't like largely because it was so much of a

339
00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,880
Speaker 3: Japanese project. But it's interesting that you get a Kai

340
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,000
Speaker 3: to ruciate of it, that's like, hold on, why do

341
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,120
Speaker 3: we have these borders and not the sort of Japanese

342
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,720
Speaker 3: like the borders are there for quality markings?

343
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, And it's interesting and it comes out of Japan.

344
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,680
Speaker 2: It comes out of Koreans in Japan, and also Japanese

345
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,199
Speaker 2: people in Japan, and also probably Chinese and other folks

346
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,240
Speaker 2: in Japan. But so Japan is super tense at this time.

347
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,040
Speaker 2: Leftism is going wild in the early nineteen twenties, and

348
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,720
Speaker 2: they're critiquing and attacking the colonial and war machines of

349
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,879
Speaker 2: Japan from within. A lot of this tension came to

350
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,160
Speaker 2: a head in nineteen twenty three when the Great Tokyo

351
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,160
Speaker 2: Earthquake hit. And this is a sort of physical manifestation

352
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,280
Speaker 2: of fault lines that can't handle tension anymore. The first

353
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,600
Speaker 2: time I heard I'm now off script, let's go. The

354
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:46,640
Speaker 2: first time I ever heard about the Great Japanese Earthquake

355
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,080
Speaker 2: or the Great Tokyo Earthquake was. I was at the

356
00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,040
Speaker 2: anarchist book fair in San Francisco and there was this

357
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,560
Speaker 2: group of folks from Tokyo there and they were tabling

358
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,639
Speaker 2: an English translation of a book that they had written

359
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:04,200
Speaker 2: in Esperanto about Japanese anarchism that rules, and it wasn't

360
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,919
Speaker 2: the best English translation, and they had all of these

361
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,720
Speaker 2: scenes about like the martyrs of the Japanese anarchist movement,

362
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,960
Speaker 2: and I'm flipping through it and there's all these children

363
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,719
Speaker 2: and it's just the names of children who died, and

364
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:21,680
Speaker 2: I'm like, what's going on? And the answer was the

365
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,920
Speaker 2: Great Tokyo Earthquake. If you want to hear more about

366
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,199
Speaker 2: this period in detail, check out our episode about all

367
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,440
Speaker 2: the Japanese anarchists women who kept trying to kill emperors.

368
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,280
Speaker 2: The short of it was that nineteen twenty three, a

369
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,119
Speaker 2: buck off big earthquake hit Tokyo or near Tokyo, and

370
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,080
Speaker 2: it turned into a massive race riot where six thousand

371
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,119
Speaker 2: Korean immigrants were hunted down and killed by folks.

372
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, the story I always remember from this was there's

373
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 3: a bunch of stories of guys who'd been like old

374
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,479
Speaker 3: like Japanese officers and like people who'd fought in China,

375
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,879
Speaker 3: like in like this the Sino Japanese War, like taking

376
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,400
Speaker 3: their swords off through mantlepieces and like going to hunt

377
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:00,120
Speaker 3: people down.

378
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

379
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 3: Just one of the worst, like one of the worst

380
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 3: moments in a period of Japanese history, in which every

381
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,360
Speaker 3: single thing they do is going to be terrible. Yeah,

382
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 3: really horrible stuff.

383
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:18,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And almost certainly there's some historical contention about the

384
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,960
Speaker 2: cause and effect here. Almost certainly the government consciously used

385
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,239
Speaker 2: this as a period to also go and kill a

386
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,640
Speaker 2: lot of the anarchists and entire families and like throw

387
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,720
Speaker 2: them into wells and shit. There's some argument that I've

388
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,959
Speaker 2: read a while ago that like maybe maybe they were

389
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 2: hunted down organically instead of by the government, you know,

390
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 2: but whatever, it was, whole families slaughtered, thrown into wells.

391
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,680
Speaker 2: And then they thought, say, like literally blamed Korean people

392
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 2: in anarchists the earthquake. They blamed the earthquake on them,

393
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 2: not just the chaos of it. Yeah, And that didn't

394
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,120
Speaker 2: hold up, and that that part didn't last very long.

395
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 2: The authorities arrested a few anarchists for the quote high

396
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 2: treason case, which was especially in the Korean anarchist scene,

397
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,679
Speaker 2: which was our A Korean anarchist man named paciol and

398
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,680
Speaker 2: a Japanese anarchist woman named Kanikofumiko were accused of trying

399
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,720
Speaker 2: to assassinate the emperor. The trial became a huge show trial.

400
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:14,639
Speaker 2: They were more or less on trial for being against

401
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,959
Speaker 2: the colonization of Korea, and one of my favorite love

402
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 2: stories of all time is in that episode. And I'm

403
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 2: not going to tell you it here do you have

404
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:25,120
Speaker 2: to listen? But in the end their death senses were

405
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 2: commuted to life in prison. Kaniko Fumiko took her own life.

406
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 2: Pacuol survived and was freed after the empire fell nineteen

407
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 2: forty five, made it home to Korea, where I have

408
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,200
Speaker 2: read a ton of different arguments about how he lived

409
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 2: the rest of his life. I suspect more information is

410
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,440
Speaker 2: available in English now than there was when I first

411
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 2: learned about this. But whatever have you ever seen an anarchist from colony?

412
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,160
Speaker 3: Oh? I is that the one that has the show

413
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 3: me a nation I refuse to be killed by an abstraction?

414
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 3: Or is that a different one?

415
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 1: Oh?

416
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 2: That sounds right, I think So.

417
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 3: There's like aes, because I know there's a few, like

418
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 3: there's a kind of genre of both Korean and Jeffanese

419
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 3: cinema that's sort of about this kind of thing that

420
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,400
Speaker 3: that could be from a different one of those movies

421
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 3: that I'm confusing in my head because you know this

422
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,639
Speaker 3: is this is my plug for sleep. This episode is

423
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 3: sponsored by getting enough sleep. Please do it. It's great.

424
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 3: Damages your brain if you don't.

425
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 2: And if you don't get enough sleep, you'll forget to

426
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 2: do AD transitions when you're supposed to and have to

427
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 2: go with that one. So this show brought to you

428
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 2: by between seven and fourteen hours of sleep, whatever you

429
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 2: would prefer.

430
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 1: I also didn't sleep, and I thought you did one

431
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: around nineteen minutes and you didn't.

432
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 2: Nope, yep, you did not. Here we go.

433
00:22:46,000 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 1: We're doing great everyone.

434
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 2: And we're back from that nap that's seven to fourteen

435
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: hour nap depending.

436
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 3: On what you know, feeling rejuvenated. I'm alive.

437
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, Sadly it's not true on our end, none of

438
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:12,199
Speaker 2: us have swept since we went to ads. But Anarchism Colony,

439
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 2: I really like it. It's a South Korean movie about

440
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 2: paciol and kinkofumicco and about the love story. So I

441
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 2: guess you can actually watch it by watching it, But

442
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 2: it's interesting because this whole thing is part of the

443
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,880
Speaker 2: whole like Korea as a country that cannot and does

444
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 2: not ignore its anarchists past. You know that there's like

445
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 2: a lot of work to sometimes nationalize the anarchist heroes.

446
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 2: But I really like that movie. Top five fictional representations

447
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 2: of anarchism at cinema easily maybe my favorite one. Honestly

448
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 2: probably my favorite just in terms of like accuracy and

449
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,120
Speaker 2: also it's a good movie anyway. The Japanese anarchist movement

450
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,719
Speaker 2: was splitting hard in the early nineteen twenties between anarcho

451
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: syndicalism and then the thing that my friend Miowong did

452
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 2: a bunch of episodes about pure anarchism, which is developed

453
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: in Japan anarchist tendency that didn't want to be watered

454
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 2: down by being part of the labor movement. And the

455
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 2: Korean anarchists were split by this as well, but mostly

456
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 2: in Japan. Actually in Korea they were like, we got

457
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 2: bigger problems.

458
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really like that split is really just a

459
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 3: Japan I think every other anarchist in the world who

460
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 3: have ever read who's looked at it was like, what

461
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 3: on earth are you people doing? Yeah, Rico Balatesa is

462
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 3: a very famous was.

463
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 2: It was it? Mala Tesla was a roough Rocker, either.

464
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 3: Mela Tesla, who's a very famous Italian anarchist or Rudoff

465
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 3: Rocker who's probably the most famous German. And Arcosynicolas like

466
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 3: reads about like the split that they're having. It says

467
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 3: them a letter being like, hey, y'all should work this

468
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 3: out instead of splitting. The Japanese actors like, no, we're

469
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 3: gonna worr to split every single federation in movement between

470
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 3: these two kind of all along sort of semi baffling

471
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 3: ideological lines.

472
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so that happened to the Korean anarchist there

473
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 2: as well. But I think I think overall the Korean

474
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,239
Speaker 2: anarchists movement in Japan was more or in Tokyo at

475
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 2: least was more split by the fact that a lot

476
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 2: of them were arrested, one of them was one of

477
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 2: their friends was in prison, and a lot of them

478
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 2: basically fled Tokyo and went to either China or Korea.

479
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 2: And nineteen twenty three hard time to be Korean an anarchist,

480
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 2: or especially a Korean anarchist in Tokyo.

481
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, dear God.

482
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 2: After nineteen twenty three, a ton of the Korean Tokyo

483
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 2: anarchists went back to Korea itself to start organizing groups there,

484
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 2: including a lot of Pocuo's friends. The other big center

485
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 2: of Korean anarchist activity in Japan was in Osaka, an

486
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 2: industrial city with a higher population density than Tokyo did

487
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 2: at that time, and the cheap labor that built that

488
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 2: industry was, of course immigrant labor from Korea. About fifteen

489
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 2: to twenty thousand Korean people came there every year. I'm

490
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 2: uncertain if this was seasonal labor where they're like showing up,

491
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 2: if it's the same fifteen twenty thousand people, or if

492
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 2: it's like that's how many people were pouring in every

493
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 2: single year and it was adding up. I'm not sure

494
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: these folks brought anarchism with them to Osaka. One of

495
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 2: them had already been in jail in Korea for organizing,

496
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: and a ton of them grew up as child laborers.

497
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 2: These are not theory focused folks, yet one of them

498
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: formed a As you pointed out, some fucking good names here.

499
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: One group that they formed had the sick name the

500
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 2: Alliance of Societies of Korean Property List people that rules. Yeah,

501
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 2: like what other people with nothing?

502
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 3: Fuck you.

503
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 2: I don't know a ton about what they got up to.

504
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 2: I know that they were. They held mass demos in

505
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty four alongside others for the free speech of

506
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 2: Korean immigrants. It was a big Korean immigrant rights movement.

507
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 2: In nineteen twenty four in Osaka, folks organized labor night

508
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 2: schools in Osaka where they taught how workers could free

509
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 2: themselves by uniting and fighting capitalism and just going into

510
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 2: the like Koreans and exile set up schools and it's cool. So, yeah,

511
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: that is Korean anarchism in Japan. But what about two

512
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 2: and a half hours into us learning about Korean anarchism,

513
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 2: what about Korean anarchists in Korea overall? I think people

514
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 2: talk about a story less because it's it's not nearly

515
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,959
Speaker 2: as well documented because it was all underground and it

516
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 2: mostly it was really sad. But the way Korean anarchism

517
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 2: moreton Korea itself was people would organize underground at first,

518
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 2: and formally there's tons of anarchists. They would create a

519
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 2: group with a name and membership lists, which was that

520
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 2: worked out against them, To be clear.

521
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, not a great idea if you're trying to organize

522
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 3: an underground group.

523
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 2: No, like when in doubt, if your group is illegal

524
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 2: or very likely to be, don't keep lists, which they

525
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 2: then got good at. And now we don't know shit

526
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 2: about what happened. But they would form a group with

527
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 2: a name, try and get shit done. Then all the

528
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 2: organizers would be arrested and the group would break up.

529
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 2: And even though they were given like fairly light sentences

530
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 2: like two to five years in prison for free speech,

531
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 2: they would usually die in jail or at least multiple

532
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 2: of the times that I've read about it. Survivors and

533
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:06,959
Speaker 2: new folks would form another group, and so it went.

534
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: In colonial Korea, socialism was part of the daily conversation

535
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 2: among the youth again in the early nineteen twenties. This

536
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 2: socialism was primarily anarchism. There's a you know, major split,

537
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: like obviously communism and stuff is part of everything too,

538
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 2: but that comes a little bit later in terms of

539
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: which one has more influenced when one of the major

540
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 2: ways that anarchism spread was through esperantism. Our friend the

541
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 2: constructed language. We've talked about this a bunch on the show. Basically,

542
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 2: there's this constructed language called Esperanto. It was invented by

543
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: this Eastern European anti Zionist Jew in the nineteenth century

544
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 2: whose name I didn't write into the script, but I

545
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 2: talked about it a whole bunch In fuck, I've done

546
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 2: so many episodes, I don't remember which one. Listen to

547
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 2: all one hundred episodes and you'll find out more about

548
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 2: esperantism and hear that guy talking about why he doesn't

549
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 2: think Zionism is a good idea. It became the language

550
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 2: of the left across the world, and it was an

551
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 2: attempt to destroy national borders through a common tongue that

552
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 2: was no one's mother tongue, as best as I can tell.

553
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 2: And this is sort of an inference. Part of how

554
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,479
Speaker 2: anarchism was spreading in Korea is that, like, the fucking

555
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 2: sensors didn't know how to read esperanto, so books and

556
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 2: esperanto just contained secret anarchism messages that the sensors couldn't

557
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 2: they didn't notice.

558
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 3: I bet Also to another contributing factor is that, I mean,

559
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 3: we've talked about this a bit, but the people who

560
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 3: absolutely love ESPERANTOI the Japanese anarchists, like they really really

561
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 3: love Esperanto, So there's probably books moving from there too.

562
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 2: Oh totally. It was actually called the Wind from the

563
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: East Anarchism was, which I think is cool.

564
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's awesome.

565
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I didn't know where to put that into

566
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 2: the script, so thanks for me bringing that up. At

567
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: the end of every single time I write scripts, I

568
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: have all my scattered notes that I haven't yet figured

569
00:29:58,400 --> 00:29:59,959
Speaker 2: out where to plug in, and then I just like

570
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 2: highlight them all and delete them and it makes me

571
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 2: sad every time.

572
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 3: You know, Glen, glad, we got this one. We need

573
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 3: to found that group that can be the like successive

574
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 3: organization Asian anarchists. You should make an anarchist group or something.

575
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, hell yeah. So Korean anarchists in Korea, we're

576
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 2: actually the least radical in terms of what they were

577
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 2: saying of the five geographies of Korean anarchism that I'm

578
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 2: the one who made up that there's five geographies of it.

579
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 2: This is not an accurate thing. But you know, like

580
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: most of China, Manchuria, Tokyo and Osaka and then Korea

581
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 2: all have very different personalities of Korean anarchism. Right during

582
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: this period, elsewhere, the anarchists are like, all right, here's

583
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 2: the deal. We're gonna kill all the Japanese invaders, reclaimed Korea,

584
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 2: build a bottom up society built on mutual aid and solidarity,

585
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 2: and then get into arguments about how I know, nationalists

586
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: we should be like. That's like overall the vibe most places.

587
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 2: Right inside Korea, the anarchists at this point are like, Hey,

588
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 2: we're activists working to improve everyone's material conditions, and we

589
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 2: happen to like theilosophy books, but we're not going to

590
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 2: say anything about the colonies and the empire because then

591
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 2: we'll die.

592
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, censorship does tend to have that effect. I guess.

593
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. They kept independence out of the rhetoric because they

594
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 2: kept getting murdered in jail as it was. But the

595
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 2: softening of the rhetoric did not save them. But what

596
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: could have saved them was products, especially if those products

597
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 2: were This show is brought to you by international solidarity

598
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 2: and mutual aid, which, to be fair, they had, and

599
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: it wasn't enough to save them. Even more were brought

600
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 2: to you by even more international solidarity and mutual aid.

601
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 2: That's the only sponsor, and also whoever gave us money,

602
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 2: here's that and for back. One thing that being under

603
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 2: the gun helped prevent them from doing is getting caught

604
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 2: up in ideological differences. Mentioned that, yeah, the pure anarchism.

605
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: So the split was felt between syndicalism and pure anarchism,

606
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: and it was discussed, and it was not nearly so

607
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 2: important to anarchists in Korea, although one thing I read

608
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: is said that the most prevalent strem was pure anarchism.

609
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: But another thing I read was like, here's all the

610
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 2: labor unions they started.

611
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah. Also, I will say that the peer anarchists,

612
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 3: like as much as their whole thing is opposition to

613
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 3: societies based around organization around production, like they do, also

614
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 3: have a bunch of labor unions. So it's hard to tell. Okay,

615
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 3: it's hard to tell what formation is which just based

616
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 3: on what the formation is because well, just like how

617
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 3: national borders are nonsense, but people live in different places.

618
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 3: Lines between ideologies are nonsense and artificially constructed, but there

619
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 3: is still differences between different places.

620
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 2: That's that's my deep thoughts for today. The first group

621
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 2: of anarchists that I found was actually the first labor

622
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 2: association in Korea as best as I can sort out,

623
00:32:58,600 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 2: and by that I mean a source said it was

624
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 2: the first labor association in Korea. But anytime anyone says

625
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 2: the first something something, I don't believe them.

626
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

627
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 2: In nineteen twenty folks who liked Krapotkin but didn't go

628
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 2: explicitly anarchists until nineteen twenty four formed the Association for

629
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: Labor and Mutual Relief in Korea. This was a combo

630
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 2: labor union and mutual aid group. As best as I

631
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 2: can tell, The Black Labor Society was founded explicitly anarchist

632
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 2: in Seoul in nineteen twenty three. Soon it disappeared due

633
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 2: to repression. Next, the League of the Black Flag was formed,

634
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 2: which is a good name. Anything with a league is

635
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: a good name. I've read it that it was formed

636
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 2: in nineteen twenty four, and I've read it was formed

637
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 2: in nineteen twenty five. Everyone listed in their membership was

638
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 2: arrested and sentenced to a year in prison. So the

639
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 2: government didn't like the League for some reason. I think

640
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 2: it was the name. They were like, we don't like

641
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 2: the name.

642
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, his name is. His name's too cool.

643
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 2: It's cool.

644
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 3: If any of the names we've come up with, we've got,

645
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 3: we must put every single one of these people in prison.

646
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and almost all of them died, even though there

647
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 2: sense to a year in prison, they almost all died

648
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 2: in prison or killed themselves immediately after release because of

649
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 2: how badly they've been treated.

650
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 3: Oo.

651
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 2: And this was a strong message to the anarchists, but

652
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 2: not one that stopped anarchism. Bachiol, the political prisoner in Japan,

653
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 2: was heavily influential on these groups. Right, he's a guy,

654
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 2: and he's in fucking prison in Japan, And some of

655
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 2: the founders of a lot of these groups had already

656
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 2: been arrested in Japan in nineteen twenty three during his trial.

657
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 2: Another group set up only a few months later was

658
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 2: the True Friends League. I promised up at the top

659
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 2: of this there was going to be a lot of

660
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 2: like friends leagues. And there's so many group names that

661
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 2: I didn't put into this script, but a lot of

662
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 2: the ones that are not in it are like eighteen

663
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 2: different versions of the Best Friends and the True Friends

664
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 2: and the Black Friends and the Yeah, True Friends League

665
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 2: is also good. Although I think League of True Friends,

666
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,879
Speaker 2: but that's probably just a translation difference. This lasted about

667
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 2: a year before all of this founders were arrested. Everyone

668
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 2: got two to five years for Darien to try and

669
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 2: build new society on anarchist principles. At least one of

670
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 2: those members died of pneumonia during hunger strike in prison.

671
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: Just like in China and Japan, anarchist groups in Korea

672
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 2: were multi ethnic. When the True Friendsly headquarters was raided,

673
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 2: there were at least two Japanese anarchists present who went

674
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 2: to prison as well. A Christian anarchist named Kim Son

675
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 2: opened a church in Korea after he came back from

676
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 2: China convinced that the Bible was anarchistic. So he started

677
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 2: off as a Christian and then he was like, oh,

678
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 2: now I'm an anarchist Christian and I'm going to go

679
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 2: open a church about how the Bible is anarchistic. He

680
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 2: was always in and out of prison for that work.

681
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: And he also tried to set up an anarchist village

682
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 2: in northern Korea. And I don't know more about it.

683
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 3: Probably they all got arrested, unfortunately, that that seems like

684
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 3: the arc of the story. Yeah, in Korea, that they

685
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 3: all got arrested.

686
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, they might have fucked off to Manchuria. That's the

687
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: other thing people successfully do. Yeah, maybe where they all

688
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 2: eventually whatever, We'll get to that. Several times, I think,

689
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 2: partly to evade all of this getting arrested for doing

690
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 2: political groups, they would set up groups that were explicitly

691
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 2: art and literature movements, not political movements. Ah, these were

692
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: still crushed.

693
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

694
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 2: In nineteen twenty five they tried another left unity one

695
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 2: all types of socialist art came together, and by that

696
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 2: I mean Bolsheviks and anarchists. These are the two primary

697
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 2: forces at this point, called the Korean Artists Proletarian Federation.

698
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 2: They split because the Bolsheviks kept arguing that all literature

699
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 2: must be political propaganda or else it isn't proletarian, and

700
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 2: that everything had to be Bolshevik. The anarchist position was,

701
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 2: what if art can just be art sometimes, or it

702
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 2: can be anarchistic and it can even be Bolshevik.

703
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 3: What if art is okay, if it's art proto actually know,

704
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 3: what is this even proto socialist realism or were we

705
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 3: just in their socialist realism by this point I think

706
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 3: we might be.

707
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 2: I actually don't know exactly. I have this whole plan

708
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 2: where I want to do it like futurists versus Soviet realism,

709
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 2: and like.

710
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,240
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, there is a whole bunch of interesting

711
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 3: stuff about, like Soviet art communes that I only sort

712
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 3: of know about. Oh cool, that I've heard interesting stuff about.

713
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 3: But they also get eventually wiped out by piped out

714
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 3: by the Stalinists. Yeah.

715
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 2: I don't remember whether I covered this enough, but it

716
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 2: might be later in the script too. All the Korean

717
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 2: folks who sided with the Soviets, they went really badly

718
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,439
Speaker 2: for them. There was a whole ethnic cleansing that happens. Oh,

719
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:25,280
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ.

720
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really one of those old Bolshevik war hero

721
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 3: d next to their name, nineteen thirty six.

722
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah, it's mostly nineteen thirty seven for the Korean Soviets.

723
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,879
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think about twenty five thousand of them

724
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: killed anyway, Okay, I think it's in the script, Jesus Christ.

725
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 2: I think it's in the scrip. We'll get to it.

726
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 3: Oh No.

727
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 2: In May nineteen twenty nine, folks from the Chungho Artist

728
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,439
Speaker 2: Movement Society were arrested and given two to five years.

729
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 2: So they're getting the same as everyone else, right, And

730
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: they were as they claimed they were just an art

731
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 2: movement members happened to be anarchists. At their trial, no

732
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 2: one bothered bringing up evidence that they were like doing

733
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 2: anything that was criminal even under the fucking statute at

734
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 2: the time they all went to prison. The movement seemed

735
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 2: to have been strongest on Jaju Island, which is the

736
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 2: largest island off Korea, and some Korean anarchists who left

737
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: Japan moved there started a mutual aid group called Our

738
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 2: Mutual Loan Club, which did a Taoist anarchist thing and

739
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 2: combined anarchism with Daoism's idea of the three treasures diligence, frugality,

740
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 2: and modesty. Just for another syncretism, I'm going to shove

741
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 2: as many into this episode as I can. Yeah, most

742
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 2: of the groups started in southern Korea, where the capital

743
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 2: of Korea was right, but as those groups were all repressed,

744
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 2: the spirit moved north by like nineteen twenty seven or so.

745
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 2: There anarchist theory was developed that sort of replaced the

746
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,240
Speaker 2: proletarian class of Marx with the desperate and humble class

747
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 2: by a Korean anarchist, ying Yong that felt more appropriate

748
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 2: to the Korean in context. Because it included peasants and

749
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 2: it includes like well, Iron is desperate and humble, right

750
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 2: or humbled by society.

751
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like the Japanese pur anarchists like do a

752
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 3: kind of move like this too, And it's interesting that

753
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 3: they get here kind of in some ways before the

754
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 3: Marxists are really getting to this place where like they're

755
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,439
Speaker 3: they're running into problems with the fact that like they're

756
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 3: sort of you know, Marxist idealized the revolutionary subject kind

757
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 3: of like isn't the only person who's being a revolutionary

758
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 3: subject around it? Also isn't even necessarily the primary thing

759
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 3: that you're dealing with if you're in a colony.

760
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. And also like oh crap, I

761
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 2: forget the name of it. The different like modes of

762
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 2: production that Marx describes, one of them isn't one of

763
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 2: them called the asiatic mode or like something horrible and

764
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 2: like just like racist and wrong.

765
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 3: It's really people have tried to rehabilitate the asiatic mode

766
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 3: of production, but like, well, one of the things that

767
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 3: if you really go into the marks, you realize he's

768
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 3: kind of just making up like there's a slow vonic

769
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 3: mode of production. He's kind of just he's kind of

770
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 3: just freestyling with it, and they're they're not very good.

771
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: He's like, here there be monsters mode of production.

772
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

773
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like there's a really good David Graeber piece

774
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 3: called turning modes of Production inside out and which you

775
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 3: kind of ar he's trying to kind of rehabilitate the

776
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 3: idea of it. And his argument basically is that like

777
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,919
Speaker 3: capitalism as a mode of production is a form of slavery. Yeah,

778
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 3: like it's just like a different version of that. But

779
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 3: if if you want to get if you want a

780
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 3: good thing about how the whole sort of modes of

781
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 3: production thing gets really incoherent really fast about what you

782
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 3: poke at it with a stick, and Marxist is trying

783
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 3: to explain the slavonic motive production to you. Yeah, that's

784
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 3: a good one.

785
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 2: And it's like overall, I would say the economic work

786
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 2: of Marx is like the thing that I like Marx

787
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 2: about whatever put that sense together correctly. The thing I

788
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 2: like the most about Marxist stuff is overall, like I

789
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 2: think it was a decent economist. He wasn't flawless. He

790
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 2: did a lot of work that no one else did

791
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 2: at the time. It's my general takeaway. But obviously he

792
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 2: got some shit wrong. Yeah, it just makes a lot

793
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 2: of sense that people like in their own context are

794
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 2: like the proletarian thing, isn't. We're in Korea, just different.

795
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 2: We're gonna talk with a desperate and humble you know.

796
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 2: And so there they formed another Black Friends Society and

797
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 2: organized workers in the unions and opened to labor night school,

798
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,879
Speaker 2: because that's what you do. In August nineteen twenty nine,

799
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 2: the yich On Freedom Group was caught and everyone was

800
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 2: sentenced to three to four years in prison.

801
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 3: Je's Christ, did they all die in prison?

802
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 2: I don't know about that one or not, you know,

803
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: like maybe they made it out Hope springs eternal, Yeah, exactly.

804
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 2: And they slowly got better at secrecy, and then they

805
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 2: secretly formed the Korean Anarco Communist Federation on November tenth,

806
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty nine. And the KAF had a rule that

807
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 2: its members weren't allowed to get into physical fights with communists,

808
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 2: And I think that's funny. They tried to hold a convention.

809
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 2: This was not a good idea. It was like a

810
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 2: secret convention. They didn't like put flyers up right, But

811
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 2: it wasn't a good idea to have a Korean anarchist convention.

812
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 2: Almost everyone was arrested. Families of those who were arrested

813
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 2: were punished as well, mostly like economically, I think they

814
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: were denied jobs and kicked out of different situations, like

815
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 2: they weren't necessarily like murdered or whatever. I mean, well

816
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 2: take away people's livelihood and a colony sort of murdering them.

817
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 2: But international anarchists from Manchuria and Japan were deported. The

818
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 2: first convention of the Korean and Arco Communist Federation where

819
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 2: everyone didn't get arrested was in nineteen forty six, after

820
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. It wasn't a colony anymore. No, I don't

821
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 2: think they like tried every year in between, but that

822
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 2: would have been funny. It's our duty to go get

823
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: arrested at the anarchist convention. That's what it means be

824
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 2: an anarchist. The Korean Anarchist Federation was the last major

825
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 2: anarchist organization in Korea until nineteen forty five. For the

826
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 2: rest of the colonial period, anarchism was a thing discussed

827
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 2: in bookstores and shit. But shout out to the people

828
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 2: who kept radical bookstores. Everyone who talks about the shit's

829
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 2: going to fucking prison and dying there. And then there's

830
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 2: these bookstores that are like, we're going to have our

831
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 2: anarchists book clubs here, and we're going to sell books.

832
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 2: It's like one of the things that we take for

833
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:21,439
Speaker 2: granted in a place that currently has wait, we can't

834
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 2: take free speech in publishing for granted in the United

835
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 2: States anymore. Never mind, people are going to prison. Librarians

836
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 2: and teachers are going to prison in the United States

837
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 2: right now for having books about queerness and shit. So

838
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 2: never mind. Shout out to the bookkeepers in Korea during

839
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 2: this period who fucking made sure that the spirit didn't die.

840
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 2: There's also an implication that's hard to pin down. I

841
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 2: know that's the recurring theme of this episode, that some

842
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 2: Korean anarchists, including at least one woman, went to Soviet

843
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 2: Russian to fight against the Bolsheviks. I'm guessing this would

844
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,439
Speaker 2: have been on the Siberian Front of the Civil War,

845
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 2: which is where one of the two places that anarchists

846
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 2: held out the longest there in Ukraine. So that's Korea itself.

847
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 2: And when we come back part four of our four

848
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 2: parter about the Korean People's Association of Manchuria is going

849
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 2: to be about.

850
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 3: Aiation in Yeah, that's extremely exciting. I'm glad we're finally

851
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:19,280
Speaker 3: getting there four parts.

852
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 2: I know this is like I felt it was necessary,

853
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 2: and I think that I hope you all enjoyed the ride.

854
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 2: But the peak of it, we're reaching our destination where

855
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 2: two million people are going to live in an anarchist

856
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,240
Speaker 2: society for I think longer than actually people usually talk about.

857
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:39,959
Speaker 2: People usually talk about as a two year project. There's

858
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 2: it could have been a six year anyway. That's what

859
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about on Wednesday. But first, Mia,

860
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 2: what do you want to talk about?

861
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 3: Uh? Oh, yeah, I have I have a podcast. It's

862
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 3: called akadept here. There's a bunch of other people on

863
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 3: it too, who are great. If I died before this

864
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 3: has come out, I was assassinated by Boeing. By the

865
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 3: time this comes out, you will know why. You won't

866
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 3: know why. Oh shit, Okay, Yeah, it's gonna be great.

867
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, I mean not you getting assassinated, but you

868
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 2: fucking yeah, Okay, I'm sorry for sending you that story.

869
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, Sophie, you must avenge me if Bowie hit Man

870
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 3: comes for me.

871
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I promise I will do an amazing.

872
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 2: Podcast about you. I promise I'll organize a funeral with

873
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,720
Speaker 2: a you know, black and red and a coffin parade

874
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 2: into the street.

875
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 3: I like that.

876
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: Bagpie is like, I'll give you a great funeral, and

877
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'll do a wonderful true crime podcast about

878
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: your dad.

879
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so dark, I have great friends, and then all

880
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 2: of us at cool Zone Media will.

881
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 3: Oh, there we go.

882
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 2: That's nice. So you know, everything will and happily that way.

883
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 2: I'm going to go on book tour if I'm not

884
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 2: assassinated by Boeing. I have no reason I'll be assassinated

885
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 2: by Boeing unless I jack. Oh, but I'm going on

886
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 2: book tour. I'll be coming to a city near you.

887
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's true or not, but I'm

888
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 2: going to a lot of them. If you live in

889
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 2: the Northeast or anywhere, I will be driving from Pittsburgh

890
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 2: to Washington and down to Portland. You can check out.

891
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 2: I'll have all the dates on my substack, which is

892
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 2: Margaret Kiljoy do at substack dot com. You don't have

893
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 2: to sign up in order to see that. That would

894
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 2: be ridiculous. And also on my Instagram at Margaret Kiljoy

895
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 2: and also at my Twitter at Magpie Kiljoy. I will

896
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 2: be posting all of the dates of my tour for

897
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 2: my book, The Sapling Gage, which comes out tomorrow.

898
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 3: Holy crap. Yeah wow.

899
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 2: So not as we record it, but as you if

900
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 2: you listen on time comes out September twenty fourth, twenty

901
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 2: twenty four, and you all be glad because then I'll

902
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 2: stop plugging it at the end of every episode. But

903
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 2: you would be even more glad if you read it.

904
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 2: This is good. See you on Wednesday, Bay.

905
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

906
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

907
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: visit our website foolzonmedia dot com or check us out

908
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts

909
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 3: Or wherever you get your podcasts.