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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not supported by the bagpiping Unicycler. Instead,

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Speaker 1: it's supported by the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon.

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Speaker 1: Visit patreon dot com slash Thinking sideways to learn more

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Speaker 1: and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't you never know stories

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Speaker 1: of things we simply don't know the answer too. Well.

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Speaker 1: Here there, welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe,

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Speaker 1: joined as always by my lovely co hosts and Steve.

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Speaker 1: You know he's not talking about me when he says

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Speaker 1: lovely don't care. He was pointing at us. That was

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Speaker 1: a trick, Steve Stevens, the pretty one. Actually yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well so sorry. For the time being. At least we

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Speaker 1: still are a podcast. It talks about unsolved mystery should

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Speaker 1: transfer to cooking. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna do something else.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was we're gonna be a yoga podcast.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna be archery. So we have

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Speaker 1: a lot of work to do to figure out a

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Speaker 1: new podcast. So let's stick with what we got today

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Speaker 1: for the time being. There's still a few usolved mysteries

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Speaker 1: out there. Oh yeah, and before we go any further,

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Speaker 1: I want to thank our our listener, Linda. That's Linda

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Speaker 1: with a Y for suggesting this mystery, which I thought

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Speaker 1: at the beginning was a simple, little mystery, but wow,

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Speaker 1: it turns out it's a lot bigger than I realized.

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Speaker 1: Uh So this week we are going to look into

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Speaker 1: a very very shocking mass murder. Isn't mass murder when

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Speaker 1: five people get killed? Yeah, it's not. It's probably some

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Speaker 1: of you have heard about this, and if you act

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Speaker 1: you live in Britain, of course you've heard about it.

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Speaker 1: And I'm talking about the white House Farm murders, which

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Speaker 1: is one of the most notorious murders in modern British history.

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Speaker 1: I think it's safe to say. Yeah. So, depending on

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Speaker 1: who you talk to, And there's a lot of disagreement

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Speaker 1: about this one, either five people were murdered in cold

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Speaker 1: blood or four people were murdered and then the killer

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Speaker 1: committed suicide. So what's it? Good? I guess we're gonna

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Speaker 1: go through the whole day and then we're gonna flip

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Speaker 1: a coin and saw this thing. Yeah something like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's about how I feel about it. Yeah, well it's yeah.

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Speaker 1: So our murders took place in the wee hours the

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Speaker 1: morning of August seven, although I guess it's it's conceivable

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Speaker 1: that it took place before midnight to so to be

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Speaker 1: August six, but I'm pretty sure it was the morning

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Speaker 1: of the seventh, at least one of them. At least

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Speaker 1: one of them. Yeah. Uh. The place they took the

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Speaker 1: murders took place. That was the farmhouse at the White

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Speaker 1: House Farm in tols and Darcy, England, which some of

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Speaker 1: you have probably not heard of. I've never heard of

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Speaker 1: it before I started reading about this thing. Yeah, I saw.

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Speaker 1: I looked at it on Google. It's a it's a

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Speaker 1: nice little town. It looks like it's about fifty miles

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Speaker 1: northeast east of London. Um. The people who on the

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Speaker 1: farmhouse were Neville in June Bamber, and they were being

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Speaker 1: visited by their adopted daughter, Sheila Capelle and her twin sons,

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Speaker 1: Nicholas and Daniel. They normally lived in London. Sheila had

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Speaker 1: been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia in nineteen three and her

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Speaker 1: mental state was kind of up and down. She was

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Speaker 1: apparently down, yeah, kind of going downhill. Yeah. It turned

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Speaker 1: out that after the murders, a psychiatrist who had treated

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Speaker 1: Sheila's said that she told him. Of course, that didn't

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Speaker 1: come out until later, among other odd statements that she

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Speaker 1: said a lot of weird stuff to them, to her psychiatrist,

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Speaker 1: but she felt that she was capable of murdering her sons.

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Speaker 1: She also also felt like she was capable of, like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, mentally directing them to I was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: murder other people. Yeah, she had delusions that she was

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Speaker 1: in direct communication with God and outso had the delusions

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Speaker 1: that she was like she and her mother and her

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Speaker 1: two kids were like infected by the devil, are possessed

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Speaker 1: by the devil. She was all over the map. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so you can sort to see why, um people

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Speaker 1: draw people jump to this particular conclusion about murder suicide.

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Speaker 1: When the parents and the kids were found shots to death,

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Speaker 1: and Sheila was dead and from what appeared to be

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Speaker 1: too self inflicted gunshot wounds, they jumped to that conclusion

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Speaker 1: murder suicide, and then they changed their minds about a

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Speaker 1: month later. Uh, this is still really controversial. There's there's

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Speaker 1: partisans on both sides of this case. There's a there's

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Speaker 1: a whole you could almost call it a movement to

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Speaker 1: reopen this case and retry the case. Yeah, because of

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Speaker 1: new evidence and stuff like that, and of course the

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Speaker 1: police investigation was really bungled. Yeah, actually it was so bungled.

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Speaker 1: I read somewhere that they said that in the police

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Speaker 1: departments in England often call um bungling a case doing

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Speaker 1: a bamber. Yeah, it was so bungled that it has

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Speaker 1: become the mark by which everybody measures case bungling. It

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Speaker 1: is epic proportions. Yeah, and it's it's really it's really

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Speaker 1: a shame because there's a lot of important evidence that

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Speaker 1: would really resolve this, just like that. Yeah, if they

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Speaker 1: had and yeah, if they if they've done it correctly,

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Speaker 1: if they hadn't destroyed things. I mean, there's a whole

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Speaker 1: there's a list of things that we're going to go through.

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Speaker 1: They could have done better. Oh yeah, yeah, if they

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Speaker 1: have they kept recordings and kept better records and yeah,

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Speaker 1: well I'm sure we'll get into this. Oh yeah, we'll

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about this. Uh yeah, because

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Speaker 1: again I think if we could get a look at

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Speaker 1: one or two key pieces of evidence, we could probably

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Speaker 1: solve it in about a minute probably. Yeah, more on

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Speaker 1: that later though. The Bambers, that's Nevill and June They

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Speaker 1: also had adopted son, Jeremy Bamber, who was twenty fourth

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Speaker 1: time this took place. He is currently in prison for

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Speaker 1: life for the murders for five life sentences. Yeah he has,

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Speaker 1: he sees. Yeah, there are only in Britain, there are

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Speaker 1: only about twenty people who are imprisoned for life without parole.

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Speaker 1: He's one of them, the other ones. Just like serial killers.

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Speaker 1: There are people out there who think that Jeremy is

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Speaker 1: a psychopath who should be locked up forever, and then

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Speaker 1: there are others who think that this thing is a

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Speaker 1: huge miscarriage, miscarriage of justice. So what report you said?

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Speaker 1: We read all. I'd read a little a fair amount

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Speaker 1: about actually the upbringing of these two children, Sheila and Jeremy.

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Speaker 1: And it is very interesting, uh, that a house could

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Speaker 1: have produced at the very least, Jeremy. Jeremy has some

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Speaker 1: sort of disassociative something. He may not be a psychopath,

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Speaker 1: but he's there's some disaffected, disassociative something going on with him.

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Speaker 1: And it's very interesting to me that two children can

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Speaker 1: come from the same family, one with such a dissociative

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Speaker 1: disorder and one with such severe schizophrenias. Well, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think you know, I mean This is a giant debate

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Speaker 1: and we're not going to go too far into it,

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Speaker 1: but the parenting has some influence on that because June

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Speaker 1: this is a pretty good case study in nurture versus nature. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because June was extremely devout and impressed that upon her

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Speaker 1: children in some very strange ways to try to get

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Speaker 1: them to go along with it. So I can see

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Speaker 1: how one of them would kind of breakdown and I

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Speaker 1: don't know if that's the right term to use, but

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Speaker 1: mentally just kind of give up, and then the other

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Speaker 1: one just put up a wall and go on autopilot. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think. Yeah, Jeremy is not an emotional guy at all.

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Speaker 1: As I believe it was his cousin who was involved

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Speaker 1: in this whole thing to a certain extent. This cousin

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Speaker 1: said that you found out at a fairly young age,

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Speaker 1: said he was adopted, So what does that mean. That

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Speaker 1: means that somebody had you, gave birth to you, and

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Speaker 1: didn't want you, and they gave you away to somebody else.

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Speaker 1: And Jeremy's case was was even a little more severe

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Speaker 1: than Sheila's. Sheila's parents were unmarried and she was an

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Speaker 1: legitimate child right um. Whereas Jeremy's parents had him, said no,

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Speaker 1: we don't want him, gave him up, and then got

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Speaker 1: married a few years later and start a family of

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Speaker 1: their own exactly. So I think that, you know, to me,

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Speaker 1: that would be a little more of a harsh reality

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Speaker 1: to face of like, oh no, no, they're still together.

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Speaker 1: They just chose they didn't want you, yeah, exactly. And

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Speaker 1: then um uh and then after that the uh, the

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Speaker 1: parents sent Jeremy away to school, and which probably made

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Speaker 1: him feel even more rejected. And then he made the

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Speaker 1: mistake of confiding to a few of the school may

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Speaker 1: said he had been adopted, and so that people started

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Speaker 1: calling him like a bath the bastard and all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: So that was probably a mistake on his part. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: but you know, with all this rejection, I think Jeremy

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Speaker 1: just sort of shut his emotions off. I also consider

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Speaker 1: him to be stereotypical British man, closed, quiet, reserved, just

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Speaker 1: to a very extreme extent. Well, I know, but it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's what you it's okay, I'm not gonna say

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Speaker 1: this is all British Men, but this is what you

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Speaker 1: always see portrayed, stiff upper lip, and that seems to

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Speaker 1: be that he took it farther than most really far.

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Speaker 1: That's the way I see. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah anyway, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but anyway, jeremmy was working on the farm at the time.

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Speaker 1: Of course, parents are about a hundred and seventy pounds

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Speaker 1: of months, and plus you got to live rent free

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Speaker 1: in the house that was owned by his parents that

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Speaker 1: was about three or three and a half miles away.

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Speaker 1: So he was he was doing okay, but not making

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Speaker 1: money handed for fist. It's not nothing in Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it's a good well, yeah, I mean free were is comfortable. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: free were at and also he supplemented his income by

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Speaker 1: growing pot. They had like three hundred acres and so

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Speaker 1: he was able to find himself a little patch and pot. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: On the evening, the evening of August six, he visited

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Speaker 1: the family house probably you know, for dinner because because

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Speaker 1: his sister was visiting from London the moment. It's the

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Speaker 1: sense that I had is that he did that fairly often. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well he was so close to Yeah, that's good point. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: depending on where here. He was either hunting rabbits a

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Speaker 1: little bit earlier and had his father's father's twenty two

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Speaker 1: rifle out or else. He her other versions. He heard

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Speaker 1: rabbits outside, so he got the rifle and loaded it

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Speaker 1: up because he wanted to go shoot some rabbits. Apparently

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Speaker 1: he likes shooting animals. Well, okay, okay, I know that

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Speaker 1: they said he has said that the family used a

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Speaker 1: gun to shoot rabbits on the property. What I could

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Speaker 1: never find is what was it they were growing on

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Speaker 1: the property. Yeah, I know, I don't know. I've never

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Speaker 1: idea Yea, I looked. I kept looking at it. There's

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Speaker 1: never any mentioned, you know, of weed farmer so and

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Speaker 1: none of that. So I have no idea what they

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Speaker 1: what they grow there? Yeah, well they grow pot and

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Speaker 1: they obviously have a rabbit infestation. Yeah apparently. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you have rabbits on your property, they're pretty easy

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Speaker 1: to kill and they're pretty delicious. So well, good point,

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Speaker 1: they're prettystructive. Yeah, that's true. So it's kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: killing a lot of rabbits with one's done. Yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: welcome back to Yeah, he left the he left the rifle.

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Speaker 1: It was had had a scope on it in a

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Speaker 1: silence there. That's kind that kind of the cool thing

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Speaker 1: about Europe is it's a lot easier to get silencers, yeah,

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Speaker 1: also called moderators, also called suppressors. Yeah, uh rifles yo. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we had a ten round magazine. So fast forward a

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Speaker 1: little bit about he left he when he left the house,

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Speaker 1: he left it on the kitchen table, right, he didn't

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Speaker 1: put it back in the gun cabinet. Now, he left

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Speaker 1: in the table. That's important. Yeah, yeah, later on, later

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Speaker 1: on it wound up the somebody started to scope and

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Speaker 1: the silence are off of the rifle. We don't know

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Speaker 1: who did it or win and those the scope in

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Speaker 1: the silence are wound up back in the young closet.

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Speaker 1: Can I ask why you need a silencer or a

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Speaker 1: suppressor to hunt rabbits. I don't think you need it,

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Speaker 1: but I think if you're trying to kill more than

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Speaker 1: one at a time, you probably don't want the sound

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Speaker 1: of the gun to be really loud and care the

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Speaker 1: rest of the rabbits off if you're hunting with the scope,

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Speaker 1: though they're at a distance, and twenty two aren't that

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Speaker 1: loud to begin with quiet either though. Yeah. That that

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Speaker 1: I say about suppressors is that you can shoot without

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Speaker 1: having to put on put in ear plugs or ear

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Speaker 1: muffs or anything like that. So that's kind of cool,

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Speaker 1: especially if you've got to listen for their little rabbit sounds,

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Speaker 1: you know, to hunt them, and it's a little rabbit rabbits,

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Speaker 1: rabbit calls, yeah, the sounds of eggs and eggs being

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Speaker 1: laid by the rabbits, that kind of thing. Yeah, alright,

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Speaker 1: I just I didn't see the need for the suppressor.

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Speaker 1: Apparently suppressors are fairly popular in Europe just because it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's pleasant, it reduces noise. That I understand it.

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Speaker 1: I've just suppressed. It might have been also that perhaps, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, they did it out of consideration to the neighbors.

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Speaker 1: But and and they did it because they just did

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Speaker 1: again didn't want to wear ear plugs. Well, it seems

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Speaker 1: to safe for the neighbors. I don't really see that

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Speaker 1: that being am because when I looked it up on

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Speaker 1: the map, the nearest neighbors like a half mile away,

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Speaker 1: so it's not like they're right next door, but they

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Speaker 1: might be on the edge of their property when they're

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Speaker 1: shooting rabbits walking around possibility mooching. I heard recently that's

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Speaker 1: the term you can use for walking around. I did

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Speaker 1: not know that, Okay, this is this. This next thing

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Speaker 1: is a little bit contested, and it's either at three

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Speaker 1: twenty six or three thirty six in the morning on

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Speaker 1: August seven, Jeremy called police to pass along a message

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Speaker 1: that he'd gotten from his father. His father had called him,

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Speaker 1: he said, from the farmhouse, saying that Sheila has had

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Speaker 1: gone berserk. That was his words, and that showed up

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Speaker 1: in the police report too, had gone berserk and had

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Speaker 1: the gun. He also apparently at that point called his

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Speaker 1: girlfriend in London for some reason, and then he headed

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Speaker 1: over to meet he had talked to the police. The

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Speaker 1: police told him to meet them over at the farmhouse,

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Speaker 1: so he went over there and the police. One of

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Speaker 1: the police cars passed him on the way. They said

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Speaker 1: he was driving kind of unusually slowly. They thought he

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Speaker 1: was because apparently, as it turns out, he usually was

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Speaker 1: kind of a fast driver. So he was driving slowly

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Speaker 1: through in the morning, and the guy, yeah, I wondering

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Speaker 1: if he wasn't a little loaded. Also, you can just

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Speaker 1: attribute that to if he's telling the truth, being nervous

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Speaker 1: and afraid of what you're gonna find, but still having

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Speaker 1: to go. I have to go fast, exactly want the

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Speaker 1: cops to get there first. Well exactly, That's what I

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Speaker 1: say is he definitely wanted the cops to get there first. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can't really blame him. Uh yeah, Actually, no matter

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Speaker 1: how this shook out, he wanted the cops there first,

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Speaker 1: no matter who's guilty. Yeah, which makes sense to me

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Speaker 1: on all. I don't think that it's I don't think

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Speaker 1: it proves or disproves. I don't. I don't think it

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Speaker 1: does either. Really, I don't think it's suspicious anyway. The

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Speaker 1: police set a car along about four third. I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: getting out of kind of getting out of sequence here.

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Speaker 1: But he had Jeremy had reported that his father had

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Speaker 1: called him and said all that stuff about Sheila and

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Speaker 1: then he and then the phone just sort of cut off.

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Speaker 1: That's what he said. Although when they found when they

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Speaker 1: went into the house, they found the phone off the hook.

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Speaker 1: About four thirty am, a British telecom phone operator checked

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Speaker 1: check the farm phone line and found that it was

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Speaker 1: off the hook. But all she could hear was a

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Speaker 1: dog barking and nothing else. So that's at four thirty am.

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Speaker 1: That's what happened. What was there? A dog? Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: had a little, a little small dog and what happened

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Speaker 1: to the dog? I'm not sure. That's literally the only

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Speaker 1: thing I've heard about the dog. The dog was fine,

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Speaker 1: dogs running around the house barking. Yeah, dog was unhurt. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's good. I'm sure they found a home for it.

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Speaker 1: They had an extended family. But will be more about

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Speaker 1: the dog later. This is kind of a This might

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Speaker 1: just be one of those dogs, the dog that didn't

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Speaker 1: bark mystery. Maybe. Yeah, So at that point, Jeremy was

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Speaker 1: kind of urging the cops to go into the house

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Speaker 1: so that they didn't want to because they were afraid

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Speaker 1: of getting shot, because he had actually they had made

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Speaker 1: an inventory of the guns that were in the house,

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Speaker 1: and he also made a drawing in the house so

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Speaker 1: show him kind of where everybody would be sleeping, also

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Speaker 1: pointing out some spots where Sheila, if she was still

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Speaker 1: alive and armed, might be hiding and could potentially ambush

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Speaker 1: them from. And he also told them that she knew

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Speaker 1: her way around a gun, didn't she didn't? He Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, she wasn't an expert, but she said. He

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Speaker 1: said that they had done shooting and she used again

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Speaker 1: and yeah, I pick it up a rifle and pulling

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Speaker 1: the triggers not too complicated. Well, I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: would say, like I've used a gun before, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know that, Like, I don't know that I could

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Speaker 1: actually hit. Something about this case, though, is that whoever

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Speaker 1: did the shooting it was close it was it was

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Speaker 1: it was extremely close range. There was no skill involved.

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Speaker 1: I just mean, like if a police officer was like

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Speaker 1: rushing me, I don't know that i'd be able to

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Speaker 1: be like, yes, this is nothing call of duty. You

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Speaker 1: know you're done. Yeah, this isn't. This isn't there is

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Speaker 1: no fallout or anything. Should we not do that again?

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Speaker 1: I think that portal, I know, yeah, but in this

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Speaker 1: in this case, so the I think the longest distance

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Speaker 1: was like two ft yeah right, yeah, so yeah, no

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Speaker 1: skill needed. Yeah yeah. Because the cops were worried about

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Speaker 1: getting shot, they waited for what the equivalent of a

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Speaker 1: swat team, which apparently it's called a tactical firearms group,

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Speaker 1: and those guys showed up about five uh, and everybody

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Speaker 1: decided to wait until daylight to go into the house.

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Speaker 1: Is everybody else consider this timeline just screwy cops showing

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Speaker 1: a three thirty swat team shows up at five. We

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Speaker 1: have had no contact with the inside, but we'll get away.

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Speaker 1: Yeah the hell, I mean, I guess, in fairness, you're

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Speaker 1: not hearing shot. It's not active shot happening. I guess

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Speaker 1: on the one hand, you think, okay, somebody could be

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Speaker 1: bleeding out on the floor, right, they could be dying there,

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Speaker 1: But there's also there's not additional violence happening. It's it's

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Speaker 1: a stable situation in there, whatever it is. If we

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Speaker 1: go in without the support we need, it could quickly

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Speaker 1: become destable. And it wasn't like they have the gear

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Speaker 1: they have now, and they didn't know, you know, so

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Speaker 1: once the SWAT team showed up, they probably were like,

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Speaker 1: well we could or you know, the sun's gonna be

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Speaker 1: up pretty soon, so we could just do it. Then

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Speaker 1: we'll wait another hour and a half. Yeah, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I agree. It seems insane to me, but from the hand,

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Speaker 1: but against now that I think about it, CNN shows

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Speaker 1: stand us for seven hours before the cops go in,

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Speaker 1: So I don't know why I think this is so unusual. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe the cops were thinking, hey, you know, there

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Speaker 1: could be somebody in there with the gun, or maybe

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Speaker 1: the guy calmed her down and got the gun away

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Speaker 1: from where they all went back to bed. Maybe I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Ye, yes, the morning paper here. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: house was dark, by the way, and uh so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe they're gonna wait till the light came on. They

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Speaker 1: see somebody move around in Yes, one of the cops

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Speaker 1: I think, said he saw, and I also, Bamber said,

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Speaker 1: Jeremy Bamber said he saw I saw somebody in the

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Speaker 1: second floor window. But but then another cop said, you know,

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Speaker 1: we were we just sort of moved side to side,

355
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Speaker 1: and it looked like it was really just an illusion

356
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,960
Speaker 1: of like the reflection of some moonlight, and so that's

357
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Speaker 1: not not so No, nobody really knows exactly when the

358
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Speaker 1: last shots were fired. They also said they saw the

359
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Speaker 1: body of a woman in the kitchen. There was that too.

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Speaker 1: Somebody said the body of a woman, but it turned

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Speaker 1: out to be the body of Neville. We're going yeah,

362
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Speaker 1: although I heard one report that somebody saw his body

363
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Speaker 1: and the body of a woman, yeah, which is intriguing. Yeah, yeah,

364
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:36,680
Speaker 1: and then we'll talk more about that in a little

365
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Speaker 1: bit later. But uh so, yeah, And in the meantime,

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Speaker 1: they were they were asking Jeremy questions like whether she

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Speaker 1: really might have gone nuts with the gun and if

368
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Speaker 1: she was really truly dangerous and he according to him,

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Speaker 1: he replied, quote, I don't I don't really know. She

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Speaker 1: is an utter. She's been having treatment unquote. And well

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Speaker 1: that's insensitive, but he said it. I didn't say that, No,

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Speaker 1: I mean, truly, he that's a very simple thing about

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Speaker 1: your family members, that you'll say she's crazy. I don't know. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I would say that about a lot of my family,

375
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Speaker 1: except that you can't see they're getting the treatment. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's if you tag that on, it becomes a completely

377
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Speaker 1: different statement. So I can see why they would be

378
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,720
Speaker 1: a little hesitant. Yeah. Yeah, So eventually they made up

379
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,800
Speaker 1: their minds, and at seven thirty four, they took a

380
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Speaker 1: sledgehammer to the rear door of the house and smashed

381
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Speaker 1: it open and went inside. They found Neville dead on

382
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Speaker 1: the kitchen floor, with seven bullet wounds in him, a

383
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Speaker 1: lot of blood and also he was out. Yeah, I'm

384
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,119
Speaker 1: sure there's blood inside him too, but and he he

385
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 1: also had been beaten pretty harshly around the head. His

386
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:50,240
Speaker 1: had black eyes and broken jaw. Yeah. So, and there

387
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 1: was some furniture overturn looked like they had been a struggle. Yeah. Uh,

388
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Speaker 1: they went upstairs. They found June dead in the master bedroom.

389
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Speaker 1: Also they found she though, also in the master bedroom,

390
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Speaker 1: lying at her back with the rifle laying on top

391
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Speaker 1: of her, two bullet holes in her in her chin,

392
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Speaker 1: underneath her jaw, apparently a suicide. And also her two

393
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,440
Speaker 1: twin sons were both dead in their beds. In their beds,

394
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 1: they've been apparently shot in their sleep. Yeah, one had

395
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Speaker 1: five bullet holes in them and the other one had three.

396
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 1: They had cops go back outside and they talked to

397
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 1: Jeremy Bamber and informed that his entire family is dead

398
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 1: and apparently, uh, he kind of lost it. Well, yeah,

399
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 1: I think he was a little shocked. He cried, He

400
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,880
Speaker 1: even maybe vomited a little bit. Yeah. Everything I've read,

401
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 1: everything I've read says and he appeared to vomit. Yeah,

402
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 1: that's literally how they phreeze it on everything. So I

403
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 1: don't actually have a clear sense of if somebody said, oh, yeah,

404
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 1: he's dry heaving over in the corner, or he was

405
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 1: dry heaving, or walk around the side of a car

406
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 1: and bent over like he was gonna lose his stomach,

407
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,679
Speaker 1: and somebody saw it. That's that's not unusual. I know

408
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 1: a friend of mine, she she lost her little dog

409
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 1: that she loved tremendously. And once he was was showing

410
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 1: the little corpse of her little dog, she did that.

411
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 1: She's like started crying, she and she then she threw

412
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:12,920
Speaker 1: up and then she passed out. Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah. Anyway, Um,

413
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 1: let's go back to the crime scene. So Neville Bamber

414
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 1: was shot eight times, and they concluded that he was

415
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 1: shot four times upstairs in the bedroom. I think that

416
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,399
Speaker 1: this is I'm like like blood spatter and also just

417
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 1: it was it was cartridges. The blood spatter was one

418
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: of the key things. But I think you're right there,

419
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 1: the cartridge probably yeah, that the mpty shell case things

420
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 1: he got downstairs. And it's unclear exactly when he made

421
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 1: the phone call, if he made it at this point

422
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: or I think more likely he made his phone call

423
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 1: before the shooting started, but we don't know now. I

424
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: say that because if you indeed made that phone call,

425
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 1: the phone didn't have any blood on it, that's right. Yeah.

426
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,400
Speaker 1: He also probably couldn't have talked if he had been

427
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: because when he got shot, I'm one of the shots.

428
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: If I remember the Winter's jaw. Yeah, I don't know

429
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 1: if they know which one which which shot was where. Well,

430
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: I think they do know which ones were where, partially

431
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: because of the blood spatter. I wanted to say splatter,

432
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: but I think they have something. That's why I'm pretty

433
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,679
Speaker 1: sure they had figured out that he had the one

434
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 1: that had gone through his jaw had gone gone in

435
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 1: when he was upstairs, so he couldn't have really talked

436
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: on the phone. Yeah. Well, and the other thing unintelligible.

437
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:25,880
Speaker 1: The other thing too, is when you got somebody who's

438
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: trying to kill you, the last thing you do is

439
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 1: go make a phone call. You go to your gun

440
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 1: closet and get a gun out. And so that's probably

441
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: what he had it downstairs to do, That's what I'm guessing,

442
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 1: and not and not to make the phone call. So

443
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,919
Speaker 1: I think he probably made the phone call before the

444
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 1: shooting started. If you made the phone call, there's that's controversial.

445
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 1: He was, so he made his lay downstairs. There was

446
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 1: a struggle. It appears that there was damage to the rifle.

447
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: So it appears that somebody but stroked to him the

448
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: headbutted with the with the rifle, and then it probably

449
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 1: bludging him into unconsciousness. So I'm gonna guess at this

450
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: point in time, this this gun only helped him rent

451
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: ten rounds in them magazine. Uh, the Submisso whoever it

452
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 1: was that did the shooting bludgeoned him into unconsciousness and

453
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 1: then paused, reloaded the gun, and then finished him off

454
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 1: the gun was loaded. Can I ask a question here?

455
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 1: And maybe you don't know. I don't remember seeing it anywhere.

456
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: Did they ever figure out what they thought the order

457
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 1: of the killings had taken place in? No? You know?

458
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: And this is um you see, I don't know how

459
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 1: how well fingerprint ideas hold up under under on a

460
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: cartridge it's been loaded into a magazine and then fired.

461
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: I would think that you would still be able to

462
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: lift prints off of that after that empty showcase showcasing partial. Yeah,

463
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: so the first ten rounds would have had Jeremy's fingerprints

464
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: on him, no matter what, No matter what, because he

465
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: admitted to loading the weapon and then leaving. Yeah, he loaded,

466
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 1: he loaded the weapons, so that would tell you where

467
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 1: the first shots took place. But I don't know if

468
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: they did that. I know they gathered the casings and

469
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 1: they made note of where each one was. But I

470
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: looked around. I was trying to find any information about

471
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: if they lifted prints off the shellcasings, and I couldn't

472
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: find anything. Okay, the only reason I'm asking is that

473
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: I'm imagining that the encounter between Neville and whoever was

474
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: doing the shooting had to have caused quite a bit

475
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: of noise, just with the bludgeoning and the broken furniture.

476
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: So it almost leads me to believe that he was

477
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: maybe one of the last ones to die. Yeah, that's

478
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 1: what what I was thinking to you. If the kids

479
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 1: were killed in their sleep, Let's assumed that the silencer

480
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: was on the rifle for much of the crime. So

481
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: the kids, if the kids were killed in their sleep,

482
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: well they must have been killed first. Maybe or maybe

483
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: June was. I don't know, I think. I mean, my

484
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: my guess would be the boys first. And that's eight rounds.

485
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: Eight rounds. That composes a logistic I say that because

486
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 1: that's a logistical issue. You've got ten rounds total, and

487
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: you've just expended eight of them. Okay, so you you know,

488
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 1: you do that. You go downstairs, you reload. Neville says, oh,

489
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: I heard something. It's weird. Comes downstairs and it's maybe

490
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 1: it's Sheila right in this story and says, what are

491
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 1: you doing? So nothing? Run away, You grab the phone,

492
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 1: make the call here, gunshot go oops, drop, the phone

493
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: line goes dead. You run upstairs. June's dead. Now how

494
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: many shots was that seven? So you've got three? Yep,

495
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: So maybe there's I'm willing to accept in this case,

496
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: there could have been a margin were of one shot

497
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: that was shot up above? Right, he gets shot three times,

498
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 1: run downstairs, he was shot four times upstairs. I think

499
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I'm willing to see what I see

500
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 1: where he is going, and I I suddenly see where

501
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 1: the flaw in my logic is and maybe probably a

502
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: lot of people's logic, which is I played too many

503
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: freaking video games that you expend all the rounds in

504
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 1: the cartride or in the clip before you reload, you know,

505
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: because video games make that easy. But you don't. You're right,

506
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: I just dawned on me. You don't have to do

507
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: it that way, So that could very well be it.

508
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: Or you shoot June once once in the head's all

509
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: it takes. Maybe you shoot her once Neville comes up says,

510
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: well what are you doing? You shoot him? Four times,

511
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: chase him downstairs because he's going for the phone again

512
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: or whatever, beat him to death, come back up, finished

513
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: June off, and now we all know why this story

514
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: is such a mystery, because we could do this for

515
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: another U taking notes, Starry, Gevin and I are gonna

516
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: keep going, So I'm just providing one. I totally, but

517
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: I agree. I think the boys probably would have had

518
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: gone first, because otherwise they would have they would have

519
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: been woken up. They would have been woken up, and

520
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: they would not have been peacefully in bed. Yes, yeah,

521
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: well anyway, so I'm sorry. As a quick question, it

522
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: was a it was a uh not a semi automatic?

523
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 1: What what? What kind of semimatic? Okay, because that also

524
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: explains why there maybe maybe what I would say is

525
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: an excessive amount of shooting happening to like a small

526
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: boy in a bed, right, you need one bullet for that.

527
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: But if you are not experienced with guns and you

528
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: pull the trigger a little too hard, and it just

529
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: would have kept going. Not a full lotto, just semi

530
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: autount you have to pull the trigger every time, every time,

531
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: never mind. But yeah, whoever did it wanted to make

532
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: sure the kids were dead, so you know, I want

533
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 1: to make sure everyone was dead. Yeah you can. Actually

534
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 1: you could actually probably survive a gunshot wounded the head.

535
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: You're probably not going to survive five probably not. Just

536
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: it's pretty rare, not a chance really. Uh So there

537
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: was the shooting that we're not really sure what order

538
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: it all occurred, and I'm guessing that uh let's say

539
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: it was Sheila. She walks into the bedroom and she shoots.

540
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: She shoots Neville four times, thinking well, that'll be enough,

541
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: and then she turns the gun on on her mother

542
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: and start shooting her. Let's say she shoots her. You know,

543
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: I was like four or five maybe six times. Well,

544
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: now she's got an empty gun. Meanwhile, Neville is heading downstairs. Oops,

545
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: he didn't finish him up with those four rounds, and

546
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,479
Speaker 1: you know he's going to go grab himself a shotgun

547
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: or something. So you go, you go after him, You

548
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: take that rifle and you start you start head but

549
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: he started hitting him with that thing until he loses

550
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: cautiousness at least enough that you've got a time. I'll

551
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: just a little bit of time to reload your gun

552
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: and then finish him off. Then you go back upstairs

553
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: and you pop a few more rounds into mother because

554
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: you don't like her. Yeah, yeah, and actually she lived.

555
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:39,239
Speaker 1: Neither of the kids liked their moms work almost no

556
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: matter who killed them, they didn't like June. There's there's

557
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: one option of a person who maybe I didn't really care. Yeah.

558
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: And then of course, you know Jeremy, Jeremy had he

559
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: had problems with his parents, and then he wasn't that

560
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: crazy about his sister. And then he was also really

561
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: kind of angry and jealous about his sister because she

562
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: had had her breakdown and everything, and she's broken up

563
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: with her husband, got into divorce, and so they bought

564
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: her a flat in London, and Jeremy is like, Jeremy

565
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: was a little a little ticked off about that. Yeah,

566
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: they bought a really nice flat. They probably were giving

567
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: her a pretty hefty allowance. She was, I mean, you know,

568
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: she was raising two boys, so she needed more money

569
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: than he did. And of course her husband, her ex

570
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: husband at that time, he reportedly said he was doing

571
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: almost everything four and with the boys before they came

572
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: to live with them. But I also I want to

573
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: point out she was twenty eight or twenty nine when

574
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: she died, so that makes Jeremy twenty four. Twenty four

575
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: year old men are jealous, idiots of everything. Yeah, so,

576
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: I mean part of so I'm not trying to justify behavior,

577
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: but I'm also trying to shine a light on this

578
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: is kind of normal behavior for a twenty four year

579
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: old be angry at everybody else because he's not getting

580
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: his entitled Yeah. Yeah, that certainly doesn't mean he's a psycho. Yeah,

581
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I've don't. I've known a few people that

582
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: had like they were from not superstick and huge rich,

583
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: but very well off families, and when the siblings were

584
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: all like, you know, you know, really kind of a

585
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: yeah at each other's throats some of the money and

586
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Yeah, any way, back to our story

587
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: when we're talking about okay, oh yeah, the twins. Twins,

588
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: they were shot eight times total, and then Sheila was

589
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: on the masterurbiding floor, as I said, on her back,

590
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: shot twice and there were no signs of struggle on

591
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: her body. That's the police set. Her hands were clean,

592
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: no lead or powder residue, there was no blood on

593
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: her feet, even though there was blood on the floor,

594
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: So that was considered kind of significant and it might be,

595
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: but that's significant well because saying the blood, because if

596
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: she had done all the shooting and there was all

597
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,479
Speaker 1: this blood flying around, she should have had it on her.

598
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: She should have walked through some of it. Yeah, yeah,

599
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: uh yeah, but U cour at the same time, you know,

600
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: when she was done slaughtering everybody, she could have washed

601
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: her hands. And there were a pair of socks found

602
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: nearby that we were blood stained. And so if she

603
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: was walking around in her socks and she took her

604
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: socks off because they were blood staining and sticky and

605
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: and gross, so she takes them off, wipes her feet off,

606
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: washes her hands. So there that explains the lack of

607
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: blood and the lack of lead residue. So I think

608
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna I'm willing to say that the evidence

609
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: is strong that Sheila was the last one to die.

610
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: Would you agree with that she was out of the

611
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: last or the first? And here's what I would say,

612
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: she might have been the first, supposing that she didn't

613
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: do the killing, supposing it really was Jeremy. Now, what

614
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: they have said that the police, the prosecution has said

615
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: there are no signs of a struggle on her body,

616
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: you know, no broken, no scratches, no bruises, no broken fingernails,

617
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: nothing like that. Well, if Jeremy had murdered her, and

618
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: this is one of the problem the reasons I kind

619
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: of have my doubts that he did murder her. The

620
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: only way he could have done it without a strug

621
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: would have been to kill her first. Yeah, And I

622
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: guess I'm going off of the evidence that's been presented

623
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: with the crime scene photos and the fact that it

624
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: looks like her blood is like real fresh, still wet.

625
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: That's that's and that's the thing. It looks like she

626
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: was last killed by far yet, right, So I am

627
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: of the camp that says that she died last. And

628
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: if she died last and didn't do the killing, if

629
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: Jeremy or someone else did the killing, it's even more

630
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: suspicious to me that she was clean because I've seen

631
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,479
Speaker 1: crime picture. I mean, there was a sizeable amount of

632
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: blood around June, for instance, There's a lot of blood everywhere.

633
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: There was stuff going on. She definitely would have been

634
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: woken up with whatever is happening with Neville downstairs. Either

635
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: she would have gone down to investigate that, she would

636
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: have seen her mom, and who knows if she would

637
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: have been sad of her mom or not. But she

638
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: would have walked through some blood, there would have been

639
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: some damage, and then they're probably would have been a

640
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: struggle with Jeremy. Probably maybe not. I don't know what.

641
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: I don't know how the drugs she was on affected her.

642
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: They I know they're kind of head seditative qualities. Yeah,

643
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: it was kind of a sedative. Yeah, anti sex. I

644
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 1: don't know if if, I don't know, but I think

645
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: that I think it's having been the first to die.

646
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: Is the coagulation of the blood that doesn't add up

647
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,919
Speaker 1: at all? And I swear correct me if I'm wrong,

648
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 1: if either of you know the answer. But I swear

649
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 1: that while Jeremy and the police were outside they heard gunshots.

650
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 1: Is that incorrect? I swear I read that somewhere. I

651
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: didn't read it did a lot more clicking on some

652
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 1: websites than I did. I know. So that's because you

653
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: hate colored tech. I can't. I'm sorry you guys. Make

654
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: your make them black and white, come on and and

655
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: black on white, not the other way around. The worst, actually,

656
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: right might the worst the worst ones of all are

657
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: the ones where they have they fade away from bright,

658
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 1: the dark, the background behind you. I just hate that.

659
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: My god, it's just it's so hard in your eyes.

660
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: Back to the anyway, I think she likely washed. I

661
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,919
Speaker 1: mean there were notes of things like her nails were

662
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: perfectly manicured. Still, she was in a pristine dread or

663
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: sleeping gown. Everything was perfect and not to me sounds

664
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: like ritualistic cleaning after versus Oh, I just happened to

665
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: make it through this basic blood bath with not a

666
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: single drop of anything on me. Yeah, I think it's

667
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: it's highly possible that that's why she she cleaned up,

668
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: maybe even changed your clothes. Although they probably would have

669
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: found the clothes, maybe they wouldn't have because I know

670
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 1: that they missed some other stuff they were not well.

671
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: There is the other answer, which is she was naked.

672
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: If she cleaned up and she a quick shower, there

673
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: would be no blood on clothes because she had no clothes.

674
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: If she was shooting people naked naked assassin, she was

675
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: a model, or she had been she had been doing

676
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: nude photo shoots. And I make jest, but it is

677
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: completely plausible. In her own home she may have said, well,

678
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: I look naked tonight. Now I'm I'm going off the edge.

679
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: And you know what I'm doing it I'm naked. Well

680
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: she's not gonna stop me. Well it was her parents house. Um,

681
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: but yeah, no, that's true. It could she could have

682
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: been naked. I like that theory. That one other, one

683
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: other thing about Sheila's body is that there was a

684
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: Bible next to it. It was it was open and length,

685
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: print down, facedown, face down. It was June's Bible, right,

686
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: that was actually June's Bible, but it was next to

687
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: Sheila's body. And when you look at the crime scene photos,

688
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: you can see a note sticking out between the pages somebody.

689
00:36:58,200 --> 00:36:59,720
Speaker 1: And I don't know if that was a note written

690
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: by Sheila or by June or you know. I've looked

691
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: at the photo and it's it's the It's hard to tell,

692
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: but I almost wonder if it's just a bookmark. I mean,

693
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 1: I've heard it referred to as the note, but since

694
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: we don't know what it is, I'm just wondering if

695
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: it was some kind of bookmark. I was just going

696
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: to say that I my family members who are intensely

697
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: religious have their study Bibles, and they have notes and

698
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: stuff stuck in there too. You know, they had a

699
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: thought or they have something that they want to remember

700
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: relates to this something, Yeah that relates to that passage

701
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: or or maybe not, but maybe it's something else. I

702
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: don't know. People keep notes in their Bibles sometimes they do,

703
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: so it's not necessarily significant. But here's the thing, is

704
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: the note is gone. Yeah, so that's it's it's weird

705
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,399
Speaker 1: if it pertains to the case. Yeah, it might not.

706
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: I guess it's weird. I guess if it doesn't pertain

707
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: to the case, because then why is it gone? But yeah,

708
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: I mean it might have just been like saying notes

709
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: about various biblical kinds of things, you know, and so

710
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: somebody just thought that we don't need this pitch it

711
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: on the Bible itself. The defense lawyers were asking for,

712
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: like if they had had any separate, isolated pictures of

713
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 1: the Bible, and you know, and like especially they were

714
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: still in finding out what pages it was open too.

715
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: And the police said, uh, now, we never took separate

716
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 1: pictures of it. And then, by the way, the Bible

717
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: itself was destroyed sometimes I don't remember exactly we destroyed it. Great, guys,

718
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: they destroyed a lot of stuff they like ten years

719
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,399
Speaker 1: after the case. Yeah, and then well there's a limit

720
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: I believed how long they were required to keep certain evidence.

721
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: But in a case where it's still being appealed continually,

722
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 1: it's amazing that they did it, that they destroyed it.

723
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: You read you read why they did right. The police

724
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: department that was in charge, the head custody of all

725
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:51,720
Speaker 1: this stuff said, oh, we didn't know the case was ongoing. Yeah.

726
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: That was their official statement, was we burned it because

727
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: we were unaware that the case was ongoing. Yeah, okay,

728
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,919
Speaker 1: I'm going to use that. Great guys. Yeah, know's there's

729
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff in this in this case, like

730
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: the phone calls. If it's true that Neville called the police,

731
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: and there is there is some evidence that Neville Bamber

732
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: called the police there and there's and then he's and

733
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 1: then supposedly he called Jeremy, and then Jeremy called the

734
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 1: police and they called differently, because I know Jeremy didn't

735
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 1: use he called the station's number directly. Yeah, and I

736
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: believe Neville called I think so. Yeah. And the thing

737
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 1: about it is is those were recorded, but the recorder

738
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 1: the recordings were deleted after twenty eight days, which is

739
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 1: a crying shame because that would solve the mystery. Yeah, yeah,

740
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 1: it's a damn shame. I mean, anyway back into this thing, well,

741
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: they had it was a there's a picture even of

742
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: the log. Yeah, there's two different logs of two different

743
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: of apparently two different two different stations. Yeah. Yeah, so

744
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 1: one of them said somebody identifying themselves as a Mr.

745
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,919
Speaker 1: Bamber called and said my daughter who's twenty six years

746
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 1: old and has a gun. And then that was it.

747
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: And then another call was Jeremy Bamber says his dad

748
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: called him, and I mean it's pretty solid evidence. And

749
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: there's there's different time stamps, yeah, about ten minutes difference. Well,

750
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: and that's the funny thing is I remember reading and

751
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 1: it it just stood out his odd to me that

752
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: they have two different time stamps and they're almost exactly

753
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: ten minutes apart. But one of the rationales is obviously

754
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: the officer who was taking the note misread the time

755
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 1: on the clock and it should have been twenty four

756
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 1: instead of thirty four. That was like or whatever. It

757
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: was like, it was like the one of them was

758
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 1: three six and at the endmal was three thirty six. Yes,

759
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: and I believe that Bambers, Jeremy Bamber's call was at

760
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: three thirty six. Right, But here's here's the deal, is

761
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: that in response to Neville's call, they had dispatched a

762
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: car to the farmhouse at three thirty five. Yeah. So,

763
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, it's not not just incompetence at

764
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: a certain point. I mean, it's at some point you

765
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: kind of think that it's suspicious. Yeah, yeah, it's yeah,

766
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: suspiciously incompetent. Yeah, I mean, maybe somebody didn't like Jeremy.

767
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: I don't know. Oh, I'm I have no doubt in

768
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 1: my mind that a lot of people didn't like Jeremy.

769
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,959
Speaker 1: He said, Yeah, it doesn't seem like a lackable guy.

770
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean he should be in prison. No, no,

771
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: But on the bright side, in prison, he has obviously

772
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: got a lot of time to work out. Oh yeah,

773
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: he's got time to He's got lots and lots of

774
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: time to work on his appeals because he just keeps

775
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: appealing this case. But he's also working on his guns, evidently,

776
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: because the photos of him today he is kind of

777
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: a big dude, keeping in shape, you know. Yeah, back

778
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: to our mystery. Three days after the murderers, Jeremy's cousins

779
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 1: went to the house because they felt like the police

780
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: said probably, they didn't feel like the police were really

781
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: paying proper attention, and they wanted to go search the

782
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: house themselves. They were suspicious, right, wasn't capable of that

783
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: sort of thing. So they thought, well, clearly somebody else

784
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 1: did it, and the police didn't search for evidence, which

785
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: is fair. I mean, you know, they said, well, the

786
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: gun always had a suppressor and a scope on it,

787
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: and neither of those things were on the gun when

788
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,439
Speaker 1: you found it, so where were they? And the police said,

789
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: we didn't find it well, and evidently they weren't easy.

790
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: I imagined the suppressor wasn't hard, but the I know,

791
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,479
Speaker 1: the scope required a screwdriver to take it off. Yeah,

792
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: but I mean it's like it's one of those one

793
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: of those things, probably a screwdriver, maybe even just a

794
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: dime or a nickel, you know, something like that. It's

795
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 1: it's not not hard to get off at all. It's

796
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 1: not anybody could do it. And of course the suppressor

797
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 1: just screws right on. They said, when they they're searching

798
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: of the house, they want to the gun closet. The

799
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 1: cousins did, yeah, and they found the silencer and just

800
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: right there, right exactly where I would yeah, exactly, just poppers. Yeah,

801
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: this is and they keep calling this everywhere, they call

802
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: it the gun cabinet, but really what it is. It's

803
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 1: a small, little stubby closet and underneath the Harry Potter closet. Yeah,

804
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: so it they noticed that it had red paint on it,

805
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,760
Speaker 1: and it was also sticky with a little bit of blood.

806
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 1: Uh So they they called the police, and the police

807
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: eventually came by and got it. Three days, took him

808
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 1: two or three days later. I thought it was ten

809
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: three days, three days, three days later they went and

810
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 1: got it. There was something else ten days was it?

811
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: When they took photos official crime scene photo, there was

812
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: something that happened. There was something like that that. Yeah,

813
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: it was how low? How does it take that low? Yeah? Yeah, no, definitely, No,

814
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: they actually took crime scene photos like the day of

815
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: but not great ones, right, yeah, but they were thorough

816
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:53,240
Speaker 1: enough to bring up one one anomally really interesting. Anomally

817
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 1: it really interesting anomally Yeah. Uh So the family, the cousins,

818
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: when they found this thing, they saw that paint. They

819
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: went back to the farmhouse looking for the source of

820
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: this red paint that was on the suppressor and they

821
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: found it in the kitchen where the big fight took place. Uh.

822
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: So there's a there's an august stove, like a big old,

823
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, oil stove, old fashioned kind of stove,

824
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: and there was a red a mantle over it that

825
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:19,800
Speaker 1: was painted red. And there were a bunch of scratches

826
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: and gouges in this thing. And that paint did match

827
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: the paint on the suppressor. Uh. And wasn't there a

828
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: red paint like underneath it too that they matched to

829
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 1: actually the nail polished color that was on Sheila's toes. Boy. Yeah,

830
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: they were looking for a flex of red paint in

831
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: the in the crime scene photos because they the defense

832
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: the Bamber's defense team hired an expert in photo analysis,

833
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,919
Speaker 1: and he he was expecting to find flex of red

834
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: paint underneath where all this happened in the crime scene.

835
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: If that was, he did not see it. He saw

836
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 1: a flack of something red and he finally matched it

837
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: to a chip in Sheila's to hair tonail polish, and

838
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 1: the chunk of that came off. Yeah, apparently, so maybe

839
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: there was a struggle. I don't but the marks on

840
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: the mantel weren't in the original crime scene photos. Right,

841
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: they weren't visible in the original crime scene photos, which

842
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: is crazy. Yeah, so this is really suspicious. That's a

843
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: little suspicious, don't you think. Yeah, so, uh well, okay,

844
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: let's move on and we'll talk about that some more

845
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: later after. So, after the funerals, they had the did

846
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 1: a funeral for Neville in June, and then they had

847
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: a separate funeral for Sheila and the kids. And then

848
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: Jeremy Bambera went to Amsterdam. He tried to buy a

849
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: large amount of drugs and offered to sell some nude

850
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: photos of Sheila. Actually what it what it really was?

851
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. He actually didn't do that in Amsterdam.

852
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: He came he was back in Britain and he went

853
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: to the Sun. What's the tabloid? I was I was

854
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: going to guess it would be the Daily Mail, but yeah,

855
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 1: you had a good shot. Yeah, now you went to

856
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: the He went to the Sun and uh, and he said, hey,

857
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 1: I've got some I've got some. I don't know if

858
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 1: they are totally naked pictures or just kind of revealing

859
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 1: pictures or what they were. But the guys, the guys

860
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,240
Speaker 1: at the Sun thought it was kind of creeping inappropriate,

861
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: even the guys at the Sun. I know it was

862
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: creeping inappropriate. I know, and now seriously, and so I

863
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: mean this is like just not very much, not long

864
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: at all, like after her death and yeah, just weeks. Yeah,

865
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: and he's offering to sell naked pictures ever to the

866
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 1: newspaper because he wants some cash, and so they just

867
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: decided we'll screw him, and so they ran a front

868
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: page story about how he had tried to sell naked

869
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:34,240
Speaker 1: pictures of his freshly dead sister to them. Kind of embarrassing,

870
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 1: not a great story. Yeah, uh yeah. So anyway, after

871
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:43,800
Speaker 1: his little John and after Daim, he and he was

872
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: spending a lot of money because surprisingly he had all

873
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: kinds of funds available to him, like half a million

874
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: dollars right from half million, it was like four hundred

875
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: thirty six thousand pounds and it was a lot of money. Well,

876
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 1: and all of that wasn't cash money. This is yeah,

877
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: that's all that stuff. Ye get a big bank roll available.

878
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: I guess I just want to point out a lot

879
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: of people think it's really really suspicious that he went

880
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: out and was partying and doing a lot of drugs

881
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Frankly, if my whole family died

882
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: in a really gruesome way and then I had a

883
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: lot of money, I would be trying to escape reality

884
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: whatever way I could. I would buy the most amount

885
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: of drugs that I could possibly buy. I would Charlie

886
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: Sheen that stuff. I would be full Charlie Sheen. I

887
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: would like be snorting everything I possibly could, drinking everything

888
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,839
Speaker 1: I could, sleeping with whoever I could, just to get

889
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: away from the reality. And so I think it's just

890
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: so dumb that people are like, well, he did go

891
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: spend a lot of money. It's like, yeah, what what

892
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: else are you gonna do? Your whole family was just

893
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: murder and everybody thinks it's okay. You go to a funeral,

894
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 1: and then afterwards everybody raises a drink to that person.

895
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 1: That's totally okay. Well, in my family we tend to

896
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,800
Speaker 1: raise more than one too where irish. Yeah, well, and

897
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,839
Speaker 1: then you know, so you go, but yeah, you bring

898
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: the great point of his extended family doesn't like him,

899
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: and he probably doesn't like them very much. He doesn't

900
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: now at least, and so he's gonna go grieve and

901
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: the only way that he can figure out as a

902
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: dumb twenty four year old guy. That's the other part

903
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: we forget. He was four years old. And yeah, and

904
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,399
Speaker 1: the other thing to remember is that it might very

905
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: well be that he didn't like anybody his family and

906
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 1: he wasn't that sorry to see him gone. Doesn't necessarily

907
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 1: that doesn't make him a murderer. It makes him a

908
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: big jerk, but probably. I mean, yeah, and Jeremy, about

909
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 1: a month after after the murders, he screwed up big time.

910
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: He was, whether guilty or not, yea guilty of this.

911
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: I think what what I heard happened is is he

912
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,839
Speaker 1: was what Julia as his girlfriend, Julie Mugford, and he'd

913
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 1: been dating her for several years, come two years, and

914
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: he's the one that he called that night. Yeah, yeah,

915
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 1: and she he had apparently told her all kinds of

916
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: details about what he did. Apparently she was in on

917
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 1: she was in to know about the murder, which to

918
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 1: me is telling telling anybody. Supposedly she was. Uh so anyway,

919
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: apparently they were they were together, I mean, I think

920
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: at his place, and he got a phone call from

921
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 1: an ex girlfriend and then he uh she overhears him

922
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 1: making a date with his ex girlfriend, and so she

923
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: flew into a rage, drew some stuff at him, and

924
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: it was kind of kind of a little physical altercation.

925
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 1: He dumped her, and which is a really stupid thing

926
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 1: to do. It's really stupid to tell somebody all these

927
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: details about the murder that you committed and then dump her. Yeah,

928
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,919
Speaker 1: really don't. Yeah, Well, he she like threw a bunch

929
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 1: of stuff at him, and then he twisted her arm

930
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: behind her to get her to stop, and then she

931
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: stormed out. And then wasn't it half the half the

932
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: time I read that she went to the cops, and

933
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: the other half the time I heard that they pulled

934
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: her in for some stuff. She was well, she had been.

935
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: She it had troubles with the with the police to

936
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 1: see several other things. There was some theft, there was

937
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 1: a bad lot, there was pot, there was breaking and entering,

938
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: the theft. Yeah, one other. Yeah, this is one of

939
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: the things that kind of reduces your credibility. But she

940
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: was she was the star prosecution witness and Jeremy Bamber's trial.

941
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: Believe it or not, she told the cops something. So

942
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 1: she watched the police and changed her story because they

943
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: had they had talked to her about what happened and

944
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,839
Speaker 1: everything had at least one that. Yeah, So she goes

945
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,839
Speaker 1: to them and she tells them that actually Bamber said

946
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 1: that they hated his parents, and he thinks he said

947
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 1: at one time when he really really wanted to do

948
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: was go over there for dinner and drug them and

949
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:46,839
Speaker 1: to date to them and then come back a little

950
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 1: later on when they're all passed out and burned the

951
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 1: house down. That was one of apparently his fantasies. And

952
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 1: we had talked about murdering them in other ways. And

953
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: she also said she saw Jeremy's mother's bike at his house.

954
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: It was June's bike. Yeah, yeah, and uh, and that

955
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 1: was that was a key part of the prosecution's case,

956
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 1: was that he bicycled over there to murder everybody. Yeah,

957
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 1: and said so he could leave his car there and

958
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 1: his car wouldn't be seen on the roads. And she

959
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: said that he phoned her. She said a lot of stuff.

960
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell everything. She really did. She

961
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 1: spun a yeah, she did. She she called him up

962
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 1: that night, the night of the murders and said tonight

963
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 1: or never, and then she said that she wanted the farmhouse.

964
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,919
Speaker 1: In the morning of August seventh after the murders, because

965
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 1: apparently Jeremy wanted to see her and then you know,

966
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: you know how somebody that she that he knew to

967
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 1: talk to. Yeah, yeah, and uh so the cops went

968
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: and got her and brought her there, and supposedly he

969
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: took her aside when they got there, and according to her,

970
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 1: and she said, quote, I should have been an actor.

971
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 1: Yeah that he told her, Yeah, that he should have

972
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 1: been an actor he was doing so well or something

973
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: like yeah, although there was the same thing when she

974
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: showed up. There was a son interview with one of

975
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: the policemen who was there investigating at the time. And

976
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 1: so they took them into the house and they found

977
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 1: a room that what didn't have a corpse in it,

978
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: which was hard to do, yeah, yeah, yeah, And then

979
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,839
Speaker 1: they found it didn't have a corpse, and they said, yeah,

980
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 1: you guys can just go in there, and to just

981
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 1: go in there and be together in YadA YadA, And

982
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: then they shut the door. And the cop says he

983
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 1: could swear that just assumed that's that door shut. He

984
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: heard a laugh. He said that he wasn't sure. It

985
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: was like at the time, I thought he was saying,

986
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: I like I thought, well, maybe it was a cough,

987
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 1: but it was like it sounded like a laugh. Well,

988
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: wasn't there some report of when Jeremy was at the

989
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 1: funerals that he was kind of you know, oh, I'm

990
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 1: really really sad and then like gave this huge smile

991
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 1: to his cousins or something like that was his cousins. So, yeah,

992
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:49,320
Speaker 1: they were in the car and as his cousin, David,

993
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: David Boteflower said that he was in the back seat

994
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: and he turned around and you gave him a huge

995
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: grin just as soon as they were outside of the

996
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,319
Speaker 1: funeral And then he said his other cousin, I think

997
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: it was his cousin said, said he did it, didn't he? Again,

998
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: it's you know, one of those just because he didn't

999
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 1: like his family doesn't mean to kill them all. Absolutely not. Especially.

1000
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: The other thing to point out, I guess is that

1001
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:15,879
Speaker 1: in all of these stories, all the tellings that Julie has,

1002
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: of all of his fantasies of killing his family, it

1003
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 1: was it was again, it was not very personal, right,

1004
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 1: it was like poisoned them and set the house on fire,

1005
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 1: not look them in the eye as I shoot them

1006
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 1: point blank twenty times, right, not tell me that's an exaggeration.

1007
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: But most of the things that he said, I think,

1008
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 1: you know, we all read kind of the same stuff.

1009
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 1: And she said that he fantasized about killing them in

1010
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 1: multiple different ways. And I think every single one that

1011
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: I remember reading was poison and do something or drug

1012
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: and burned house down or yeah something, none of it. Yeah,

1013
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 1: he certainly didn't detail anything like hey is the word

1014
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 1: I'm looking for? Yeah, absolutely, you know, And so I

1015
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 1: don't know she made this stuff up or not. Apparently

1016
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 1: her one of the roommates also said that, um that

1017
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 1: Jeremy hated his parents and he just hated his family,

1018
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: So maybe he was going around talking about how much

1019
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 1: he hates But again, the guy was twenty four years old,

1020
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: you know, and you tend to be saying do kind

1021
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 1: of jerkish things at that end. I said stuff like

1022
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 1: that all the time. Yeah, I said about you all

1023
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 1: the time. I meant to murder these two. Start my

1024
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 1: own podcast I do every time I listened to that,

1025
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: and then do a podcast unjust your murders. Yeah, it'll

1026
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: be on Cereal. Yeah, Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna do

1027
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: my own podcast with black Jacks and hookers. Alright, so well,

1028
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 1: you know, she's questionable. Yeah, yeah, So so she also

1029
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: said that Jeremy said that he hadn't done it, but

1030
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: they had hired a plumber named Matthew McDonald to do

1031
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: it for two thou pounds, which is a really really

1032
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: bargain basement price for murdering five people. And it really is, yeah,

1033
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, And actually that guy turned out to

1034
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 1: have an alibi. Obviously the police pulled him in. He

1035
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 1: had a good alibi. So iron cloud is what they say.

1036
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: That's what they say. Wasn't didn't wasn't she granted immunity

1037
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 1: for like all of her crimes, her testimony got out

1038
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 1: of a lot of trouble. Yeah, that's another reason to

1039
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:12,879
Speaker 1: question her, question her reliability. Is a witness again, she's

1040
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 1: angry about being jilted. She did have a history of dishonesty.

1041
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:23,359
Speaker 1: She was motivated, she's motivated by this. Disagree with the testimony, yeah,

1042
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 1: and then she doesn't have to go to jail. Yeah.

1043
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 1: And so at this point, the police put him under surveillance,

1044
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: and that's I'm talking about Jeremy, and they saw that

1045
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 1: he was selling off the family silver and antiques and

1046
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:37,359
Speaker 1: stuff like that to raise cash and doing a lot

1047
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: of partying. And so at one point he's gone off

1048
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: to Santra Pe for a vacation. When he came back

1049
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,240
Speaker 1: and he got off the plane, they arrested him. And

1050
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: that was in September eighty five, about a month after

1051
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:51,720
Speaker 1: the murders, and then a year later the trial started

1052
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:56,280
Speaker 1: this Actuby six. The prosecution's theory was that Jeremy left

1053
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 1: the farm about ten pm and went back to his

1054
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 1: house and then came back by bicycle in the wee

1055
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:05,360
Speaker 1: hours of August seven. He broke into the house to

1056
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: the bathroom window, which apparently I think the latch was

1057
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: defect the ever broken or was he could use had

1058
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: an you could use that to unlatch it so it

1059
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 1: sneck in. Here's the problem that I have with this

1060
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 1: is that if he snuck in and surprised everybody in

1061
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 1: their sleep, what about the dog? What do you mean

1062
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 1: what about the dog? The dog knew him, well, the

1063
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,280
Speaker 1: dog still would have barked up until the dog established

1064
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 1: who he was. The dog was here, he was, if

1065
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:33,760
Speaker 1: he was breaking, if he was coming in through a window,

1066
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 1: dog would have barked, yeah, my dog, my parents dog

1067
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,839
Speaker 1: barks at me when I walk in the front door. Yeah,

1068
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: but I have known plenty of dogs who sleep on

1069
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 1: the bed with their master and something falls on the

1070
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 1: floor downstairs and the dog doesn't budge. That's true. But

1071
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,919
Speaker 1: just because they have a dog doesn't mean the dog

1072
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 1: is gonna go bananas. That's the dog was doing a

1073
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:03,839
Speaker 1: lot of barking. Later on, of course, that there were

1074
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: there were a bunch of corpses in that time. Yeah,

1075
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:08,839
Speaker 1: but no, I mean just because there's a dog doesn't

1076
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: mean he couldn't that the dog would have gone haywire

1077
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 1: when he came in. The dog may have walked into

1078
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:16,920
Speaker 1: the hallway and he would hey, poo jams, how's it going.

1079
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: Oh it's you okay? Big? Oh yeah, don't you call

1080
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 1: your dog down and have a dog? I have two

1081
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 1: cats that think they're dogs. Well yeah, anyway, where are

1082
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 1: we at here? So I will try to reconstruct the

1083
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: whole crime thing. So assuming that Jared this is just

1084
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 1: what the prosecution says, he got the rifle, one up

1085
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: and shot his parents, never runs downstairs. It's a fight

1086
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: and he finishes. Nevill Off goes up and shoots, shoots Sheila,

1087
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 1: and then shot the twins as they slept. Then he

1088
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: arranged the scene to incriminate Sheila the Bible, and then

1089
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: he put the silencer away because he figured out at

1090
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: this point in time that her her arms were just

1091
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: not long enough for to pull that trigger when the

1092
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: silence was on the end of that gun took He

1093
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 1: also took the phone off the hook, went out the window,

1094
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: cycled home, and then called the police and said he've

1095
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 1: gotten a phone call from his dad. They argued the

1096
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 1: prosecution that this argued that member had not received a

1097
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 1: call from his father, and I don't know how how

1098
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 1: they could hardly really argued that how can he say

1099
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 1: that he didn't receive a call? Again, he approved that

1100
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 1: he would think we're very spoiled in this day and

1101
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 1: age with phone records. Oh yeah, I know. And I

1102
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: don't know if they just weren't logged or what. Well.

1103
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: I think also, the argument was right that since Neville

1104
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 1: had been shot through the jaw in the bedroom and

1105
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 1: the phone that was off the hook was the one

1106
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 1: in the kitchen, the argument was that by the time

1107
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 1: he had made it to the kitchen, there was no

1108
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 1: way that he could have made the phone call, and

1109
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 1: there was the assumption that that would have been the

1110
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 1: only time he was in the kitchen that evening and

1111
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: that was happening. Yeah, I think it's shoddy, but I

1112
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 1: don't think that was probably the argument. Yeah, I wouldn't

1113
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 1: assume that that, and that's what they do too. I don't.

1114
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:06,919
Speaker 1: I don't assume that because I think I would think

1115
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:11,439
Speaker 1: he made that. Again, if she's acting looney with a gun,

1116
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 1: that's when you that's when you pick up the phone.

1117
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 1: If she's already shooting, you don't go for the phone

1118
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 1: for the shotgun. That's the other thing that is if

1119
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 1: Neville got shot several times and he called and he

1120
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 1: calls his son, and I know that Jeremy said well,

1121
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: and people said, well, he was the keep it in

1122
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: the family kind of guy. But I've just been shot

1123
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 1: three or four times, call an ambulance. Why didn't you

1124
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 1: call the ambulance yourself? Well, that's it. And that's one

1125
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 1: of the things that they were saying too, is that

1126
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 1: why would he have called Jeremy instead of he did

1127
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 1: call the police It appears thee but he would have

1128
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 1: said to the police, I've been shot three or four times,

1129
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 1: sending him exactly. Is why I think it's reasonable to

1130
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 1: assume that he called before he got shot. He did.

1131
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 1: I think he called before the shooting started. He did,

1132
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 1: and he called him. He called. I think he likely

1133
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: called the cops. And then he called his son and said,

1134
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 1: you are three miles away and you've got a car.

1135
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:15,480
Speaker 1: Come talk your sister down, come help me. Called the

1136
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 1: cops before you leave, so there's more people coming, but

1137
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 1: your sister's gone crazy. Or he called his son first

1138
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:26,439
Speaker 1: and said, hey, call the cops and get over here,

1139
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 1: or just get over here, if he didn't want to

1140
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: keep it in the family, right, I don't think he

1141
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 1: just said. He just said, hey, your your sister's gone crazy,

1142
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 1: get over here. Please. The line goes dead because he said,

1143
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 1: you know, he said, he said what he needs to say,

1144
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,720
Speaker 1: stiff upper lip, you know, shortened to the point. Line

1145
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:49,120
Speaker 1: goes dead, touches the receiver. I'm doing I'm mining it

1146
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 1: touches the receiver because I remember those phones, right. Dallas

1147
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 1: completes the call that was logged at the other spot, says, okay,

1148
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 1: there's these you know, and then drops the phone and

1149
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 1: to pursue whatever I think, or the phone could have

1150
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 1: gotten knocked and knocked off the cradle during the struggle, struggle, Yeah,

1151
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 1: and for the cops could have done. I mean again,

1152
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 1: I I there's no blood on the phone. Because the

1153
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,479
Speaker 1: phone call was made before the shooting started. It has

1154
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:22,920
Speaker 1: to be nobody. Nobody tries to make there was a yeah.

1155
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: So I have one question for the police records of

1156
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 1: the calls. Did they they traced the phone number that

1157
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 1: the call came from, or the caller identified where they

1158
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:38,480
Speaker 1: were coming from? You know, times the caller identified when.

1159
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so the collar gave their phone number. I

1160
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 1: think I don't think there was. I don't even know

1161
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 1: if there was a phone number. Okay, now there were

1162
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 1: phone numbers on those reports. I mean the one that

1163
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:51,439
Speaker 1: supposedly came from Neville had the address the White House

1164
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 1: farm and number. My reason for asking that is the

1165
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 1: timelines weird, and the call to Jeremy is weird, and

1166
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 1: the whole thing doesn't really make a lot of sense

1167
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: to me. And so it made me start to wonder

1168
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 1: if maybe it wasn't Nevill that called him, but if

1169
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 1: it wasn't his sister that called, Hey, I've killed mom

1170
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 1: and dad. I don't know what's going on. I've got

1171
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 1: some problems. So then he hangs up he calls the

1172
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 1: cops saying he's nevill to get them to go over,

1173
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 1: and then ten minutes later it's like, um, um crap,

1174
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call the cops again, but I can't be

1175
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 1: Dad this time, so I'll just be myself. Especially if

1176
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 1: they don't they're not identified by a trace number. Did

1177
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 1: they have photo or did they Did they have cared?

1178
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 1: I don't think they do, and that's why they can't.

1179
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 1: They can't confirmed this phone called to Jeremy from the house,

1180
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 1: so I suddenly wonder if maybe it I mean, I

1181
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: don't want to sully on the dead, but maybe it

1182
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:06,280
Speaker 1: really was her. And she called up her brother's confessing

1183
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 1: what she had done and saying, I don't know what

1184
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 1: to do. I just realized that killed them all. Guess

1185
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 1: holy crap. The only argument against that is that the

1186
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 1: relationship between the siblings did not seem to be particularly

1187
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 1: the robust. It seems like she would have probably called

1188
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: her ex husband before she would have called her brother

1189
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,320
Speaker 1: husband and said, hey, I just killed her. I think

1190
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 1: she had a better relationship with her ex husband than

1191
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 1: she did hers. Sounds like it wasn't a totally bad relationship,

1192
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 1: but he was away in London. That's true. Yeah, yeah,

1193
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 1: and it just that's not a bad point. Again, I

1194
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: just these are things that I keep thinking about because

1195
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 1: there's so many weird things in this case. Well you know,

1196
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 1: it could potentially fit. Yeah, but then why would she

1197
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 1: have killed herself? Guilt? It's usually why the person at

1198
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: the end does themselves in is they can't stand what

1199
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:03,560
Speaker 1: they've done. Are maybe maybe she called Jeremy, and Jeremy says, well,

1200
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 1: you killed them all, and and she says, yes, I've

1201
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 1: killed them all. What am I gonna do this as well?

1202
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 1: Usually what people do in these cases is killed themselves.

1203
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 1: We probably should should probably keep going a little bit

1204
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 1: because Joe and I talked about a theory we have, Okay,

1205
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 1: anyway to summarize what I think is wrong with the

1206
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 1: prosecutions theory Again, Now, that was too badly injured to

1207
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 1: have spoken anyway, No blood in the kitchen phone, he

1208
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 1: was not, and he he had to have made that

1209
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 1: phone call if he made it before the shooting started. Yeah,

1210
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:38,720
Speaker 1: almost certainly I disagree with that at all. Yeah, So

1211
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 1: that's uh, So let's get back to the silencer for

1212
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 1: a second. Yeah, the one that the one that was

1213
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 1: on from the two that had the blood on it

1214
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 1: and inside it. Well, but it's not the only silencer

1215
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 1: that was in the house now I know, But that

1216
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 1: was the one that actually went with that twenty two rifle.

1217
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:55,960
Speaker 1: Is that true? Because I know that there was several

1218
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 1: silencers and there were several guns, and that the guns

1219
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 1: gotten mixed up and relabeled in police custody at least

1220
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 1: once again, great investigation, which okay, makes me wonder if

1221
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 1: there wasn't more. And I don't remember, I don't remember

1222
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 1: seeing it specified what type, but I do remember seeing

1223
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 1: suspicions that they had mixed them up and that the

1224
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:25,320
Speaker 1: one that had the blood in it wasn't actually the

1225
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 1: one that the prosecution was saying originally had been used.

1226
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 1: That's always possible, But the police wound up with the

1227
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 1: silence in their possession that did have red paint on

1228
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,280
Speaker 1: it. It It did have blood on on the outside and

1229
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:42,720
Speaker 1: also inside, because you know how silences work, right, They're

1230
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 1: like a two with a bunch of baffles that I

1231
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:47,560
Speaker 1: have just a hole through the middle of them. And

1232
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 1: so apparently there was not a huge amount but a

1233
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 1: little bit of back spatter, which makes sense that a

1234
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 1: short distance, short distance, even contact wounds, you know. So

1235
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 1: the first four or five of these baffles had some

1236
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 1: blood on them and they said it was the same

1237
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 1: blood type of Sheila's. They said it was the same

1238
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:11,560
Speaker 1: blood blood blood group. Yeah, and I assume that's British

1239
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 1: for blood type. It's not. Here's how this goes, because

1240
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 1: I actually bread into this. So in humans, evidently they

1241
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 1: are one of two blood groups, or at least in

1242
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 1: that family, there was one of two blood groups, A

1243
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 1: K one and a K two DASH one. I don't

1244
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 1: understand what those things. I don't know what they it's.

1245
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 1: I don't know what it means either. If I saw

1246
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 1: it in front of me, I could say the words.

1247
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 1: But they are different groups. And the thing is is

1248
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 1: that the technology wasn't all that great. It wasn't as

1249
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:46,800
Speaker 1: if they were sequencing the d N A. A K

1250
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 1: one is not only present in human blood, apparently from

1251
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:54,240
Speaker 1: the stuff I've read. I don't know if that's true,

1252
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 1: but what I read is that well, actually this this

1253
01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:59,880
Speaker 1: um and I can't remember exactly what the a K

1254
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 1: one stands for, but it's in the blood of other critters,

1255
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 1: rabbits and yeah, so there's there there's some issue in

1256
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 1: that we found blood on it. Bit Yeah, so it's

1257
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like and there was some I'll talk

1258
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 1: about this in a little bit. The now that we

1259
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 1: have d n A. Of course, I don't know if

1260
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:23,479
Speaker 1: the silence are still around if they destroyed that too.

1261
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:25,440
Speaker 1: I think it's still around and they did a little checking.

1262
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 1: That was my understanding. To my understanding is that they

1263
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 1: tracked out Sheila's actual bio mother. But I'll talk about

1264
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 1: that in a minute. So, because there was that blood

1265
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:39,360
Speaker 1: from Sheila's blood group in that silence, Sir Than, the

1266
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 1: prosecution argued that she was shot with the silence here

1267
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 1: on the gun and therefore she couldn't have done it herself.

1268
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 1: It had to have been murder because her arms again

1269
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:50,680
Speaker 1: were not long enough to reach the trigger. And I'll

1270
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:54,520
Speaker 1: mention I read somewhere online somebody saying, well, she was barefoot,

1271
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 1: so she could have pulled it with her toe. But

1272
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,560
Speaker 1: please remember, the silencer was not on the gun when

1273
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 1: it was found owned, so there's no way she could

1274
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 1: have pulled it with her toe. Yeah, okay, And there's

1275
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 1: no way she could have shot herself, taken it off,

1276
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 1: put it in the cabinet, and then gone back to

1277
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 1: where she died, at least not as pristina as she was. Well,

1278
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 1: no one are the shots. No, I know, I'm just saying,

1279
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 1: but like additionally, actually that neck one apparently would have

1280
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 1: not immediately killed her. It was the one that went

1281
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 1: into her head, so she would have killed it would

1282
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:26,160
Speaker 1: have eventually said if she had shot herself on the neck,

1283
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:28,560
Speaker 1: thought oh, just kidding, this isn't gonna work with the

1284
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:31,760
Speaker 1: silence or on for some reason, took it off, went

1285
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:34,120
Speaker 1: down to the gun cabinet, put it back in the

1286
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:38,960
Speaker 1: gun cabinet, came back upstairs, shot herself again. That's not possible. Yeah,

1287
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 1: there's a just yeah, it's h I mean, there's a

1288
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:45,840
Speaker 1: competing theory out there, which is that she was going

1289
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 1: to try to shoot herself. She realized it wouldn't work,

1290
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:50,000
Speaker 1: so even the first shot, she just she took the

1291
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 1: suppressor off. And I don't know how much how a

1292
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 1: bunch of a neat freak Sheila was, she took to

1293
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:57,200
Speaker 1: suppress her off. She put it away. I mean, you know,

1294
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 1: you know, for all I know, the suppressor she took

1295
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 1: it off in the kitchen and set it on the table.

1296
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:05,080
Speaker 1: And then somebody came along, like the police and they

1297
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 1: said that what's this doing laying out? And I'll just

1298
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:08,840
Speaker 1: I'll just put it in the gun cabinet over there,

1299
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:11,040
Speaker 1: because this is something we haven't actually addressed you. It

1300
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:12,920
Speaker 1: is the number of people who came through this crime

1301
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:19,040
Speaker 1: so like people came through this crime scene before anybody.

1302
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 1: And there's even evidence to suggest that the bodies were

1303
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 1: moved before they were before pictures were taken of them.

1304
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:31,839
Speaker 1: That would absolutely corrupt any kind of body placement anything

1305
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 1: of a suicide. Yeah, and there's pictures that are taken

1306
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:39,600
Speaker 1: that show the gun having been moved and laying I

1307
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:42,040
Speaker 1: think it's leaned up against a wall near a window,

1308
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:45,840
Speaker 1: and you can see it in another photo accidentally, but

1309
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 1: then it's back, so that that's also worth mentioning as well.

1310
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:55,799
Speaker 1: It's totally possible that, you know, there was just a silence,

1311
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 1: are rolling around and somebody thought I'll just put this away. Yeah,

1312
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 1: it's totally he was unlikely, but I guess I'm not.

1313
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be shocked to find out that that happened me.

1314
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:08,600
Speaker 1: Neither uh or the prosecution. Last to set up the

1315
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:12,479
Speaker 1: prosecution argus, it was claimed that she had no knowledge

1316
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:14,400
Speaker 1: of guns and no interest in guns. She lacked the

1317
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 1: strength to overcome her father. Uh, and there was no

1318
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 1: evidence in her clothes or body that she had moved

1319
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 1: around the crime scene or been involved in a struggle.

1320
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:25,719
Speaker 1: But again, I I don't find that this positive myself,

1321
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:28,519
Speaker 1: because she had the rifle. So the rifle was at

1322
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:31,360
Speaker 1: her father was still up and about but wounded. He

1323
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:34,080
Speaker 1: was wounded, had four bullets of him. So and she

1324
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 1: had a rifle. It made a nice handy club, and

1325
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 1: so it wouldn't have been hard to bludgeon him until

1326
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 1: I tell he was unconscious. And it's also hard to

1327
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:45,720
Speaker 1: know if in a situation like this, you want assumes

1328
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 1: that a that a person would fight back, But sometimes

1329
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:54,479
Speaker 1: you find you read about these cases where you know,

1330
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:58,160
Speaker 1: a daughter's like just totally beaten on their dad, and

1331
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:00,800
Speaker 1: their dad isn't fight back because they don't hurt their daughter.

1332
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:04,599
Speaker 1: It could be it's possible. It's not likely in this situation.

1333
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:06,720
Speaker 1: It's more likely he was just too injured to fight back,

1334
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 1: but it's always possible. Yeah. I mean, he's losing blood

1335
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 1: and he's got four bullet holes in him, and yeah, yeah.

1336
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:22,840
Speaker 1: So the trial ended with a conviction um October six. Uh,

1337
01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 1: the jury found ten to two that he was guilty.

1338
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:29,000
Speaker 1: So if he had gotten one more, one more not

1339
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:31,600
Speaker 1: guilty vote from a jury, he would have been let go,

1340
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:35,200
Speaker 1: but he was. He was found guilty, sentenced to five

1341
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:37,640
Speaker 1: life terms. And by the way, the judge in this

1342
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 1: case really I think moved the goal posts on him

1343
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 1: when he said, when you know what I'm talking about.

1344
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:45,640
Speaker 1: It was supposed to well, it was originally supposed to

1345
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 1: be unanimous verity, but they were having trouble reaching a verdict,

1346
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:51,680
Speaker 1: so the judge basically said, hey, you don't. You just

1347
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:54,960
Speaker 1: need to You just need to get at least nine

1348
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,400
Speaker 1: out of twelve, So I'm going to change the rules

1349
01:11:57,439 --> 01:11:59,720
Speaker 1: on you, you know, so instead of having to be unanimous.

1350
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 1: We also said that they could convict solely on the

1351
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 1: testimony of the ex girlfriends. Those were his instructions. Yeah,

1352
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:10,519
Speaker 1: that you can convict solely under testimony, which I think

1353
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 1: I think is a highly questionable movement. Yeah, you know, well,

1354
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:19,679
Speaker 1: I think the evidence against Jeremy Bamber is really kind

1355
01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 1: of thin. It doesn't it doesn't mean he didn't do it.

1356
01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:25,480
Speaker 1: But let's let's examine this. For example, there is absolutely

1357
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 1: no forensic evidence that links into the crime scene. I mean,

1358
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:31,320
Speaker 1: his one of his fingerprints was found on the rifle,

1359
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,479
Speaker 1: but he was handling the rifle just to night before.

1360
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 1: So you know, that's not exactly damning evidence. And are

1361
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:40,120
Speaker 1: we doing handled it in the past, Are we doing

1362
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:42,920
Speaker 1: theories now or I think we should? Well, yeah, I

1363
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:45,640
Speaker 1: just you know, I just I'm just saying that. I

1364
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:47,760
Speaker 1: just wanted to sum it up by saying, it's kind

1365
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 1: of remarkable that they got a conviction in this case,

1366
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:55,240
Speaker 1: considering I think how thin their their their case really was. Okay,

1367
01:12:55,320 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 1: let's talk about the theories. So we got some some

1368
01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:01,880
Speaker 1: possible perpetrae ys here, and we've talked about some of

1369
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:05,000
Speaker 1: this stuff. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we have. Again, I

1370
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:07,400
Speaker 1: wanted I wanted to talk about the cases for a

1371
01:13:07,439 --> 01:13:10,960
Speaker 1: little bit. I don't know if they were fingerprinted or not.

1372
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:12,600
Speaker 1: I was that for all my looking, I was not

1373
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 1: able to find it. I know they I know they

1374
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:17,880
Speaker 1: picked them up, they cataloged him. How many were in

1375
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:19,559
Speaker 1: this room, how many in that room in Yadi Goda.

1376
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:22,799
Speaker 1: But I don't know if they fingerprinted them. But if

1377
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:26,120
Speaker 1: any of them had had had Sheila's fingerprints on them,

1378
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 1: a single one of them then I'm the case is solved, kid, Yeah,

1379
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 1: I have no idea those things are still around, probably not.

1380
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 1: And if none of them had Sheila's fingerprints on them,

1381
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 1: it's a yeah, then there you go. That explains it too.

1382
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 1: And it would have been nice to take a look

1383
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:46,519
Speaker 1: at the note that was in the viable because it

1384
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:49,200
Speaker 1: probably was not a suicide note, but it would have

1385
01:13:49,240 --> 01:13:51,160
Speaker 1: been nice, you know, it would have been good if

1386
01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:52,760
Speaker 1: they could have at least taken a picture of it

1387
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:55,719
Speaker 1: before they lost it. But we also mentioned, just briefly,

1388
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:57,880
Speaker 1: the phone logs. It turns out there are records of

1389
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:01,360
Speaker 1: a phone call from Neville as well this year. Right, yep,

1390
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:05,200
Speaker 1: we talked about that. Okay, Uh, Sheila was on I

1391
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:09,040
Speaker 1: think this is pronounced hello, parat al halo parat all.

1392
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:11,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's a NATI psychotic drug and

1393
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:13,920
Speaker 1: some of some of which was was found in your

1394
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:18,080
Speaker 1: system during the autopsy. Wait, so we've moved into theories

1395
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 1: and based on what we're talking about, we're talking about Okay,

1396
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:25,360
Speaker 1: we're talking about Sheila did it? Okay, because I was sorry,

1397
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:27,639
Speaker 1: I was sitting here. I'm like, okay, so we're talking

1398
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:31,600
Speaker 1: more about Sheila was Okay, this is the justification that

1399
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:35,400
Speaker 1: Sheila did it in the theory, Scott continue, Yeah, these

1400
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:37,840
Speaker 1: are reasons to believe Sheila did it. She was on

1401
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:41,160
Speaker 1: a drug. Yeah, so she was on I think it's

1402
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:44,080
Speaker 1: halo pear at all or something like that. It's anti

1403
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:47,559
Speaker 1: psychotic drugs. She had been on a HERD dose has

1404
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,080
Speaker 1: just been reduced, right, Yeah. I had heard that they

1405
01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 1: cut it in half. Yeah, so that was it was

1406
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:54,519
Speaker 1: an injection she had. It was like a monthly thing,

1407
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:56,040
Speaker 1: and so I don't know how long ago she had

1408
01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:58,240
Speaker 1: gotten her shirt. Her monthly and it was like a week.

1409
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:02,800
Speaker 1: Just say it's a weekly. And I think I do

1410
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:05,479
Speaker 1: want to mention while we're talking about the drugs that

1411
01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:07,680
Speaker 1: she was on and all that stuff. I know that

1412
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:12,560
Speaker 1: perception is that people with schizophrenia are violent, but realistically,

1413
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 1: clinically that's not the case. In fact, people with schizophrenia

1414
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 1: are more often the victims of violent cases than perpetrators

1415
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 1: of violent cases. That's not to say that they can't

1416
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 1: go crazy sometimes, and and actually usually that's linked to

1417
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:36,280
Speaker 1: drug use. And Sheila was using some drugs bipolar, so

1418
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:40,200
Speaker 1: she would have fits of mania, which and so the

1419
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:42,439
Speaker 1: whole thing was schizophrenia, right, is that very often you

1420
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:45,360
Speaker 1: just disassociate from reality. You can't tell what's going on

1421
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 1: in your head and what's going on reality. She thought

1422
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:50,960
Speaker 1: she was the devil, she thought, But I just want

1423
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:52,680
Speaker 1: to make sure that because your mother called her the

1424
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:56,639
Speaker 1: devil child. But I do think that were the devil too. Yeah,

1425
01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:58,479
Speaker 1: she thought. She kind of thought everyone was the devil

1426
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:00,960
Speaker 1: for a while, was a devil. Ye. So, but I

1427
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 1: do want to just mention that just because she schizophrenic

1428
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:07,760
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that she was violent capable of something. But

1429
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:11,640
Speaker 1: it does seem that her specific case, she might have

1430
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:13,519
Speaker 1: been capable of something like this, and she might have

1431
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:17,240
Speaker 1: actually just kind of been guano crazy. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, totally.

1432
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:21,720
Speaker 1: Uh see. Also another reason I suspect she could have

1433
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:25,120
Speaker 1: done it is again I already mentioned this Neville. When

1434
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:26,960
Speaker 1: they had their struggle, if there was between the two

1435
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 1: of them, had already been shot four times. She had

1436
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:33,040
Speaker 1: a rifle to use as a club. She also had,

1437
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:38,000
Speaker 1: like we talked about before, the relatively fresh blood. Yeah. Yeah,

1438
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:40,080
Speaker 1: the ones that the wounds in her neck. And it

1439
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:42,000
Speaker 1: does like in the front the pictures, there's some nice

1440
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:44,400
Speaker 1: close up pictures. I shouldn't say nice, it's you know

1441
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:48,400
Speaker 1: they're but they're close up and they appeared the blood

1442
01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:51,720
Speaker 1: appears to be still fresh and wet and not coagulated.

1443
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:54,040
Speaker 1: Not that's nice and bright red you know, have that

1444
01:16:54,160 --> 01:16:58,080
Speaker 1: dried blood. It's wet. Yeah, and it's thin too. That's

1445
01:16:58,080 --> 01:16:59,840
Speaker 1: the other thing, right, is that like, okay, if it

1446
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:04,599
Speaker 1: is like thick, really gooey things of blood, well, if

1447
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:06,920
Speaker 1: it was even if it was just a lot of blood,

1448
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:10,639
Speaker 1: you would assume, Okay, it's maybe it hasn't a jailia,

1449
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:13,439
Speaker 1: there's a lot there, but it's like it's pretty thin

1450
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 1: streams because it does appear that she was shot and

1451
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:19,240
Speaker 1: then fell backwards, so it's not as though, you know,

1452
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:21,479
Speaker 1: blood was rushing out of her. It was just trickles

1453
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:24,800
Speaker 1: of blood. And it does it looks real fresh and well.

1454
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:27,120
Speaker 1: And the other thing that I will point out that

1455
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:30,479
Speaker 1: I had noticed is that it is there two bullet

1456
01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:34,479
Speaker 1: wounds and they're pretty close together, but there, you know,

1457
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:36,519
Speaker 1: they're I mean, it's what what is under the john?

1458
01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:38,920
Speaker 1: What is in the neck? Am I correct? Yeah? And

1459
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:42,040
Speaker 1: they're about two inches apart or so. And when she

1460
01:17:42,200 --> 01:17:47,880
Speaker 1: fell backwards, you notice the blood runs in the same direction.

1461
01:17:48,439 --> 01:17:51,639
Speaker 1: In other words, the path of it is is pretty uniform.

1462
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:53,760
Speaker 1: I mean they start to come together eventually, just because

1463
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:55,439
Speaker 1: of the calling towards every neck. But it would have

1464
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:58,120
Speaker 1: been pretty quick, one after the other, right, And there

1465
01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:02,519
Speaker 1: was that burnmark or something they originally there was, but

1466
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:05,520
Speaker 1: there was a little powder burn there, so she definitely

1467
01:18:06,240 --> 01:18:10,320
Speaker 1: it was it was quick and it was point blank. Yeah.

1468
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:12,680
Speaker 1: Now it's like that they think the first one was

1469
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:14,920
Speaker 1: maybe three inches away and then it's the second one

1470
01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 1: was a contact. Yeah. And you know, I mean again,

1471
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 1: twenty two rifles don't aren't terribly noisy, but especially if

1472
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:24,680
Speaker 1: you get it pressed up against your I guess your chin,

1473
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:26,720
Speaker 1: it's not gonna make much noise at all. So it

1474
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:28,880
Speaker 1: could have even happened. It probably happened when they were

1475
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:33,360
Speaker 1: outside the house if it was Sheila. And also the

1476
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:37,639
Speaker 1: defense team got a blood sample from they found Sheila's

1477
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:40,680
Speaker 1: bile mom and they compared to her DNA to the

1478
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:43,040
Speaker 1: DNA and the blood of the silencer. This is according

1479
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:45,479
Speaker 1: to the defense team, and they say the blood of

1480
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:50,120
Speaker 1: the silence here wasn't Sheila's um. So if that's true,

1481
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:54,280
Speaker 1: then the only real physical evidence prosecution has, which is

1482
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:57,040
Speaker 1: that the silencer had to have been on the gun

1483
01:18:57,320 --> 01:19:00,600
Speaker 1: because her blood was inside the silencer, and therefore she

1484
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:04,040
Speaker 1: couldn't have committed suicide because she couldn't have reached the trigger.

1485
01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:07,559
Speaker 1: That whole theory is out the window. Well, it's also

1486
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:12,920
Speaker 1: probably worth mentioning that the burn marks that were on

1487
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:15,320
Speaker 1: her body, right, they were consistent with the muzzle of

1488
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:19,880
Speaker 1: the gun. Not the same thing with Neville, That they

1489
01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:22,840
Speaker 1: were consistent with the muzzle of the gun, not the silencer.

1490
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:26,160
Speaker 1: So I think that speaks pretty clearly to the fact

1491
01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:30,439
Speaker 1: that the silencer was probably not on when the attack

1492
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:33,880
Speaker 1: was carried out. And you know, and this again comes

1493
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:36,839
Speaker 1: back to my point of they're not very loud guns

1494
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:40,800
Speaker 1: and people are a half a mile away, so over

1495
01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 1: the course of let's say, half an hour, twenty gun

1496
01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:47,880
Speaker 1: shots that are from a twenty two rifle in a

1497
01:19:47,960 --> 01:19:51,800
Speaker 1: closed house probably aren't going to be heard, which is

1498
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:56,160
Speaker 1: why the use of the suppressor is so just off

1499
01:19:56,240 --> 01:19:59,240
Speaker 1: kilter for me. They're far enough away it doesn't have

1500
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:03,080
Speaker 1: to have been on the gun during this entire thing. Yeah, no,

1501
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:06,599
Speaker 1: I mean it would make sense. I don't know, maybe

1502
01:20:07,640 --> 01:20:10,639
Speaker 1: maybe shoot the kids, shoot the kids first and then

1503
01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:13,840
Speaker 1: so nobody else knows. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I mean,

1504
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:16,040
Speaker 1: this is of course saying it's planned out, but I

1505
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:19,479
Speaker 1: don't know, I know you've got more here for for

1506
01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:23,519
Speaker 1: the fact that Sheila is responsible. Yeah, so yeah, there's uh.

1507
01:20:23,920 --> 01:20:27,640
Speaker 1: I think I've mentioned that there's also has found gun experts,

1508
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:32,439
Speaker 1: as we talked about. And then lastly, if I talked

1509
01:20:32,479 --> 01:20:36,000
Speaker 1: about this earlier, if Jeremy Bamber shot his sister Sheila,

1510
01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 1: how did he do it without a struggle? Yeah, she

1511
01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:40,640
Speaker 1: had no signs of literally no signs of struggle on

1512
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:43,200
Speaker 1: her right, not even bruises or anything. Yeah, I mean,

1513
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:45,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't she have had a strongest sent up to try

1514
01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:47,280
Speaker 1: to at least either fight back or try to get

1515
01:20:47,280 --> 01:20:49,880
Speaker 1: the hell out of the house, you know, And wouldn't

1516
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:51,720
Speaker 1: have had to go and grab her and drag her back?

1517
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:53,640
Speaker 1: Wouldn't she have that? They've made a lot about the

1518
01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 1: fact that she had perfect fingernails and no break, no

1519
01:20:56,520 --> 01:21:00,640
Speaker 1: broken fingernails. Wouldn't she have been like following all over

1520
01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:02,519
Speaker 1: herself to unlock the door and get out of the

1521
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:05,360
Speaker 1: house and keeps grabbing her pulling her back in? And well, yeah,

1522
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:07,360
Speaker 1: and I guess that comes a little bit back to

1523
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:10,559
Speaker 1: me for the I don't know how strong the dosage

1524
01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:12,680
Speaker 1: of the medication she was on. I know it was

1525
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:15,160
Speaker 1: cut in half, but I don't know. You know, some

1526
01:21:15,200 --> 01:21:17,800
Speaker 1: people are affected more by side effects than others. If

1527
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:23,320
Speaker 1: she was dru was known to make people very sleepy. Yeah,

1528
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:25,640
Speaker 1: so she was heavily sedative. If that was one of

1529
01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:28,439
Speaker 1: the side effects she was experiencing, it would it would

1530
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:31,559
Speaker 1: be it would make sense. But there's no mention of

1531
01:21:31,600 --> 01:21:34,360
Speaker 1: that being a side effect of hers. So yeah, and

1532
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:37,720
Speaker 1: it seems like that would be a strong didn't set Yeah,

1533
01:21:37,720 --> 01:21:39,920
Speaker 1: there were there were people that were that had witnessed

1534
01:21:40,360 --> 01:21:42,280
Speaker 1: over the past day or two at the farm and

1535
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:46,240
Speaker 1: said that she didn't seem seem normal. She didn't seem

1536
01:21:46,320 --> 01:21:49,040
Speaker 1: all drugged out or anything like that. Alright, So, so

1537
01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:51,560
Speaker 1: much for Sheila. So Sheila is a strong contender. I

1538
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:54,559
Speaker 1: think I think she actually could be the guilty party here.

1539
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:58,519
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Jeremy bamber. So what do we got

1540
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:01,519
Speaker 1: against him? What makes him like he goes to suspect

1541
01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:04,840
Speaker 1: So it's girlfriend. The girlfriend testified against him and said

1542
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:07,960
Speaker 1: that he said all kinds of stuff. Her roommates testified

1543
01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:10,479
Speaker 1: that he had said that he hated his family. Again,

1544
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:14,280
Speaker 1: though again that doesn't prove really much of anything year

1545
01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:17,960
Speaker 1: old bag, stupid thing. His extended family thinks that he

1546
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:20,000
Speaker 1: did it, and in fact, those guys went to the

1547
01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:22,679
Speaker 1: police with their suspicions a long time before the girlfriend

1548
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:25,040
Speaker 1: went to the police, and they said they thought Jeremy

1549
01:22:25,120 --> 01:22:28,719
Speaker 1: was a suspect, and he should be a suspect. It appears,

1550
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:31,479
Speaker 1: you know, he didn't. He wasn't a great guy, but

1551
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:34,240
Speaker 1: everybody thought he was insincere in his grief and that

1552
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:37,519
Speaker 1: he was acting at the funerals. Uh. And then of

1553
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:40,000
Speaker 1: course we talked about the big, huge grin in the

1554
01:22:40,080 --> 01:22:45,040
Speaker 1: bar after the funeral. Uh. You think in Bamber's defense

1555
01:22:45,080 --> 01:22:48,160
Speaker 1: and Jeremy Bamber's defense, it almost makes me think of

1556
01:22:48,400 --> 01:22:53,000
Speaker 1: Gone Girl. There's that scene where he some woman comes

1557
01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:56,120
Speaker 1: up and says, can I take my picture with you? Okay, sure,

1558
01:22:56,479 --> 01:23:01,160
Speaker 1: and just automatically smiles in the picture and he goes, oh, crap,

1559
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:03,519
Speaker 1: that might not have been the best thing. And I

1560
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:06,840
Speaker 1: can just see that same kind of weird brain process

1561
01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:09,960
Speaker 1: sitting in the back of the car person turns around

1562
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:14,000
Speaker 1: like just kind of moons at him just because he

1563
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:16,400
Speaker 1: didn't know what else to do. Okay. But also I

1564
01:23:16,439 --> 01:23:19,000
Speaker 1: will say again, you know, Joe has said this before.

1565
01:23:19,160 --> 01:23:22,479
Speaker 1: We reiterated again and again and again. Just because he

1566
01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:25,439
Speaker 1: didn't like his family, doesn't he kill them? They do

1567
01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:28,920
Speaker 1: not outside the realm of possibilities to say he did

1568
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:31,840
Speaker 1: not like his family. He just inherited a bunch of

1569
01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:37,080
Speaker 1: money and he was happy that the growth that. It

1570
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:41,120
Speaker 1: feels ikey to say, but it's totally possible. Just because

1571
01:23:41,160 --> 01:23:43,479
Speaker 1: he was happy his family was dead didn't doesn't mean

1572
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:47,120
Speaker 1: he killed his family. Yeah. I don't remember Devon managing

1573
01:23:47,160 --> 01:23:49,320
Speaker 1: to ski herself out in a long time. Been a while.

1574
01:23:50,600 --> 01:23:53,639
Speaker 1: Good job, Yeah, let's see. And he had a lot

1575
01:23:53,680 --> 01:23:56,959
Speaker 1: of like anti character witnesses. One of the family's employees

1576
01:23:57,040 --> 01:24:01,280
Speaker 1: said that Jeremy was quote quite a nasty work unquote.

1577
01:24:01,439 --> 01:24:03,040
Speaker 1: They had a farm, and one of the farm hands

1578
01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:06,720
Speaker 1: reported that Jeremy was cruel to the animals, and then

1579
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:12,080
Speaker 1: Neville Bamber's assistant, Barbara Wilson, said that Neville said to

1580
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:14,160
Speaker 1: her once quote, I must never turned my back and

1581
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:17,040
Speaker 1: that young man unquote. And he also told her in

1582
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:21,360
Speaker 1: great confidence not long before the murders that he he

1583
01:24:21,439 --> 01:24:23,719
Speaker 1: felt that his life his life might be cut short

1584
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:27,280
Speaker 1: and that he thinks it would be Jeremy probably a

1585
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:31,360
Speaker 1: shooting accident, but he felt like there's a real possibility

1586
01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:35,240
Speaker 1: that Jeremy might be killing him. So that's another reason

1587
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:39,479
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of suspective. Well, maybe some psychiatrists have

1588
01:24:39,680 --> 01:24:42,800
Speaker 1: have diagnosed it as being a psychopath, although I have

1589
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:46,120
Speaker 1: to admit of the psychiatrists have said he's not. I

1590
01:24:46,160 --> 01:24:49,880
Speaker 1: read a really interesting thing, um, because this case came

1591
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:53,880
Speaker 1: up on read it recently, and that is that the

1592
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:56,360
Speaker 1: one where there's that mega long post about summarizing the

1593
01:24:56,360 --> 01:24:59,160
Speaker 1: whole thing that about thirteen comments undernew this one was

1594
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:04,640
Speaker 1: what what case are you? What do you like it?

1595
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:06,920
Speaker 1: Could this person could be just as innocent as they

1596
01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:09,880
Speaker 1: could be guilty, And one person said, um, you know

1597
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:11,519
Speaker 1: what the thing is is that I like I just

1598
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:15,519
Speaker 1: don't like Jeremy. Member he gives me the creeps, and

1599
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:18,320
Speaker 1: I'm scared that I think he's guilty because I don't

1600
01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:22,200
Speaker 1: like him. And I think that's a really good thought,

1601
01:25:22,840 --> 01:25:24,719
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of times we're not willing

1602
01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:27,640
Speaker 1: to admit to ourselves that because this person gives me

1603
01:25:27,680 --> 01:25:30,599
Speaker 1: the creeps doesn't necessarily mean that they're a murderer, but

1604
01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:33,920
Speaker 1: it also doesn't mean they're innocent. It's hard this one's

1605
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:36,800
Speaker 1: a hard one. Are they? I guess are they the

1606
01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:39,439
Speaker 1: only two people? Because I I kind of think there's

1607
01:25:39,439 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 1: a there's a third there's a third party. But no, Actually,

1608
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:45,320
Speaker 1: I wanted to say one thing about Jeremy, even though

1609
01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:49,040
Speaker 1: I think there's no evidence whatsoever except for one thing,

1610
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:52,240
Speaker 1: which is the lights were out when the popo, when

1611
01:25:52,240 --> 01:25:54,559
Speaker 1: the pepo got there and Jeremy got there, the lights

1612
01:25:54,560 --> 01:25:57,000
Speaker 1: in the house were out. They've never had gotten up

1613
01:25:57,040 --> 01:25:58,400
Speaker 1: to make his phone call. He would have turned the

1614
01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:01,120
Speaker 1: lights on. I guess it's cause seevable that if she

1615
01:26:01,400 --> 01:26:04,639
Speaker 1: wanted to rampage, she would have turned the lights off

1616
01:26:04,920 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 1: before she shot herself. But he would have done the

1617
01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:09,840
Speaker 1: rampage in the dark well now, but never would have

1618
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:13,080
Speaker 1: turned the lights on to make his phone call. So

1619
01:26:13,160 --> 01:26:15,200
Speaker 1: he would have turned the lights on, and I'm I'm

1620
01:26:15,240 --> 01:26:16,720
Speaker 1: sure he wouldn't have shut the lights up and gone

1621
01:26:16,760 --> 01:26:19,240
Speaker 1: straight back to bed when he's got a looney sicho

1622
01:26:19,400 --> 01:26:21,600
Speaker 1: with a rifle roaming the house. But I guess he

1623
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:23,720
Speaker 1: could have turned the lights off to try to hide

1624
01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:25,519
Speaker 1: from her. But he doesn't seem like the kind of

1625
01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:31,800
Speaker 1: hiding guy. It was a big guy, a big strong yeah,

1626
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:33,600
Speaker 1: I mean sixty one or something like that. But he

1627
01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:37,840
Speaker 1: was still big guy. Yeah, It's not as if he

1628
01:26:37,960 --> 01:26:40,840
Speaker 1: was a weakling that was going to hide behind a chair. Yeah, no,

1629
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:43,120
Speaker 1: I think. And it's if you want to, like, if

1630
01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:45,439
Speaker 1: you're running to get your shotgun or whatever, you want

1631
01:26:45,439 --> 01:26:46,960
Speaker 1: to have the lights on so you can see what

1632
01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:51,120
Speaker 1: you're shooting at. So, I mean, I guess it's conceivable

1633
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:54,599
Speaker 1: that if Sheila did it, that after she got herself

1634
01:26:54,600 --> 01:26:57,920
Speaker 1: all cleaned up and everything, she would have shut the

1635
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:01,040
Speaker 1: lights back off. Well, if she herself, I guess if

1636
01:27:01,080 --> 01:27:05,040
Speaker 1: she saw the cops arriving, because it's conceivable and actually

1637
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:07,439
Speaker 1: likely given the amount of time between when the cops

1638
01:27:07,439 --> 01:27:09,360
Speaker 1: showed up and when they finally went into the house,

1639
01:27:09,439 --> 01:27:12,479
Speaker 1: that she was still alive when they showed up, that

1640
01:27:13,240 --> 01:27:19,200
Speaker 1: she heard the sirens or whatever and thought, okay, if

1641
01:27:19,240 --> 01:27:21,360
Speaker 1: these lights are on, they can see they can see me.

1642
01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:25,200
Speaker 1: Turn these lights off, or even that she was the

1643
01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:29,759
Speaker 1: female body she played dead in the kitchen right because

1644
01:27:29,800 --> 01:27:33,880
Speaker 1: they were hanging around, she waited until they walked away,

1645
01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:37,840
Speaker 1: creeped upstairs, turn you know, keeps the lights off. That

1646
01:27:38,160 --> 01:27:40,799
Speaker 1: she would have been trying to, I don't know, hide,

1647
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:45,400
Speaker 1: preserve herself, something like that, or even that she had

1648
01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:48,640
Speaker 1: some sort of episode and realized what had happened and

1649
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:50,040
Speaker 1: turned the lights off because she don't want to be

1650
01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:52,360
Speaker 1: around it, she didn't want to see it. Yeah, I mean,

1651
01:27:52,439 --> 01:27:54,479
Speaker 1: all that stuff is possible. I'm just I'm just saying that,

1652
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:58,000
Speaker 1: But I agree it's it is hinky the lights. The

1653
01:27:58,080 --> 01:28:00,760
Speaker 1: lights are a little hanky. I'm of course it could

1654
01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:02,640
Speaker 1: have been somebody else entirely. It didn't have to be

1655
01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:05,639
Speaker 1: necessarily just La or just Jeremy, somebody else. I think

1656
01:28:05,680 --> 01:28:08,200
Speaker 1: we do. We all think it's the same, do I say?

1657
01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:10,040
Speaker 1: On the kunt of three? Who we think the third

1658
01:28:10,080 --> 01:28:13,879
Speaker 1: person is? What? The cousins. I don't think the cousins

1659
01:28:13,880 --> 01:28:17,560
Speaker 1: did it. No, Actually I think the cousins called wolf.

1660
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:23,519
Speaker 1: I think that the cousins cried wolf after staging some

1661
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:28,200
Speaker 1: things that we see in the photos that weren't there before.

1662
01:28:28,400 --> 01:28:31,439
Speaker 1: Well exactly like the whole the whole silencer thing. I

1663
01:28:31,479 --> 01:28:34,360
Speaker 1: think that somebody went, hey, this got some blood on it?

1664
01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:37,880
Speaker 1: Where where where where I'm whacking it on the thing

1665
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:43,280
Speaker 1: the mantel, Oh hey I'll take this home. Hey I

1666
01:28:43,320 --> 01:28:46,280
Speaker 1: know you brought that silencer home? Because they did, They

1667
01:28:46,320 --> 01:28:48,280
Speaker 1: didn't leave it in the house. They took it to

1668
01:28:48,320 --> 01:28:51,760
Speaker 1: their own home. You should call the cops. Oh wow,

1669
01:28:51,800 --> 01:28:54,960
Speaker 1: that's great, Like I can just see it because this

1670
01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:57,639
Speaker 1: family has just got They all got gobs of money

1671
01:28:57,640 --> 01:29:00,000
Speaker 1: out of this whole thing. Joe and I were actually

1672
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:03,640
Speaker 1: talking about the fact that, um, there's also the possibility

1673
01:29:03,680 --> 01:29:07,280
Speaker 1: that Jeremy may have not done it, but we didn't

1674
01:29:07,360 --> 01:29:11,160
Speaker 1: mention might have engineered it. Oh yeah, we didn't mention that.

1675
01:29:11,720 --> 01:29:14,920
Speaker 1: The dinner conversation of the night was, Hey, Sheila, you're

1676
01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:17,320
Speaker 1: not doing so great. Remember how your sons were in

1677
01:29:17,400 --> 01:29:21,120
Speaker 1: foster care for a while. We're going to do that again. Yes,

1678
01:29:21,560 --> 01:29:24,599
Speaker 1: she probably did not react super great to that. And

1679
01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:27,320
Speaker 1: under the guise of oh I heard rabbits and I'm

1680
01:29:27,320 --> 01:29:31,200
Speaker 1: gonna go kill them. Jeremy, you know, loads the gun,

1681
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:33,200
Speaker 1: leaves it out instead of putting it away in the

1682
01:29:33,240 --> 01:29:38,680
Speaker 1: cabinet where it belongs, regardless of his intents, and says, hey, Sheila,

1683
01:29:39,200 --> 01:29:41,240
Speaker 1: that's not going to go super great for you. And

1684
01:29:41,280 --> 01:29:48,760
Speaker 1: there's there's a gun there, so so or you know

1685
01:29:48,920 --> 01:29:51,559
Speaker 1: new But we all have siblings, we all know how

1686
01:29:51,560 --> 01:29:53,880
Speaker 1: to push their buttons right that he would have said, oh,

1687
01:29:53,880 --> 01:29:55,280
Speaker 1: this is the button I need to push right now,

1688
01:29:55,360 --> 01:29:58,839
Speaker 1: to just drive her by the way. If this happens,

1689
01:29:58,920 --> 01:30:01,559
Speaker 1: your ex is going to end up with the kids

1690
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:03,439
Speaker 1: and you're never going to see him again, and mom

1691
01:30:03,479 --> 01:30:07,520
Speaker 1: and dad are gonna lock you up, get you committed.

1692
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:11,120
Speaker 1: So she thinks, okay, my only option is to kill

1693
01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:14,599
Speaker 1: She calls Jeremy. He says, all right, turn the lights off,

1694
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:19,639
Speaker 1: you know whatever, right the lights, I'll bring yourself up.

1695
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:22,479
Speaker 1: I'll be over there, comes with the police. She goes,

1696
01:30:22,479 --> 01:30:29,200
Speaker 1: oh crap, shoots herself, realizes she's the cousins, then realize, okay, uh,

1697
01:30:29,360 --> 01:30:32,400
Speaker 1: that didn't go super great for anyone. But Jeremy's a

1698
01:30:32,479 --> 01:30:34,479
Speaker 1: kind of shady guy. We don't think he deserves the money.

1699
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:38,120
Speaker 1: We think he's kind of a jerk. And this he did,

1700
01:30:38,280 --> 01:30:40,400
Speaker 1: so we'll see what we can do. Fabricates, you know,

1701
01:30:40,520 --> 01:30:45,080
Speaker 1: just a few bits of key evidence, and he's in

1702
01:30:45,160 --> 01:30:47,240
Speaker 1: jail for that, and this whole thing is really hinges

1703
01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:51,360
Speaker 1: on a few key pieces of that all came out.

1704
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:55,400
Speaker 1: That all happily came out after the cousins brought those

1705
01:30:55,640 --> 01:30:58,920
Speaker 1: And you know, your girlfriend had never come forward, this

1706
01:30:59,160 --> 01:31:02,800
Speaker 1: guy would have ever served a day exactly. It was

1707
01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:06,719
Speaker 1: her testimony only, So yeah, I think if that's true,

1708
01:31:07,200 --> 01:31:12,639
Speaker 1: there was four days, right, so they said, oh, hey, Julia,

1709
01:31:13,040 --> 01:31:17,200
Speaker 1: we here's things aren't going super great. You are you sure?

1710
01:31:17,400 --> 01:31:20,840
Speaker 1: That's what are you? Are you sure? Because here's here's

1711
01:31:20,840 --> 01:31:24,200
Speaker 1: a couple thousand pounds that says uh and a no

1712
01:31:24,479 --> 01:31:27,360
Speaker 1: jail time that says that maybe maybe that's not what

1713
01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:30,040
Speaker 1: Jeremy said to you. You know, for her, she might

1714
01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:31,360
Speaker 1: have realized it was the only way she was going

1715
01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:34,280
Speaker 1: to rule sixes. She had to. She just had to

1716
01:31:34,320 --> 01:31:38,080
Speaker 1: turn over on him and lie. So I'm not willing

1717
01:31:38,120 --> 01:31:41,160
Speaker 1: to necessarily say that anybody is free of guilt, but

1718
01:31:41,240 --> 01:31:47,479
Speaker 1: I also I don't. I think the evidence points I

1719
01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:50,439
Speaker 1: think it, but then you know, it's it is. It's

1720
01:31:50,439 --> 01:31:52,479
Speaker 1: genuinely one of those things where I think I'm like

1721
01:31:52,560 --> 01:31:58,120
Speaker 1: fifty five, I'm a little more. I'm a little more

1722
01:31:58,120 --> 01:32:01,439
Speaker 1: two thirds to once there then think at Sheila, although

1723
01:32:01,560 --> 01:32:04,639
Speaker 1: I do think it is a possibility that because after all,

1724
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:07,320
Speaker 1: you know, when you've got a paranoid schizophrenic in the house,

1725
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:09,280
Speaker 1: is it really a good idea to lead a leave

1726
01:32:09,280 --> 01:32:13,559
Speaker 1: a loaded rifle, particularly when they're probably having some sort

1727
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:15,840
Speaker 1: of episode because they've received some bad news. Yeah, there

1728
01:32:15,880 --> 01:32:19,200
Speaker 1: might and their their medication is lower than he normally is,

1729
01:32:19,280 --> 01:32:22,080
Speaker 1: and then your family sprung something. Yeah, yeah, it's like

1730
01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:24,240
Speaker 1: it doesn't make him a murderer, just kind of means

1731
01:32:24,280 --> 01:32:28,040
Speaker 1: he pulled a sneaky one, that kind of crappy. See,

1732
01:32:28,080 --> 01:32:33,640
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm and my is I'm seventy five, that

1733
01:32:33,800 --> 01:32:38,519
Speaker 1: she did the killing, I'm twenty five, that the police

1734
01:32:38,560 --> 01:32:44,000
Speaker 1: screwed it up so badly, and the cousins medaled so well, Yeah,

1735
01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:47,240
Speaker 1: that he was you know, he was the patsy. Yeah,

1736
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:50,800
Speaker 1: he was. I think that it's I'm yeah, but he's

1737
01:32:50,920 --> 01:32:54,240
Speaker 1: most likely he's innocent. So that's especially Yeah, when if

1738
01:32:54,240 --> 01:32:56,479
Speaker 1: they see things like the two phone logs said that

1739
01:32:56,520 --> 01:33:01,439
Speaker 1: it appears and damn it, it's so too bad that

1740
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:06,960
Speaker 1: they erased those tapes, you know, burned all the other evidence. Yeah,

1741
01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:09,320
Speaker 1: you know, and when it comes right down to it,

1742
01:33:10,000 --> 01:33:13,800
Speaker 1: Jeremy Bamber would have been infinitely better off if if

1743
01:33:13,800 --> 01:33:17,639
Speaker 1: his girlfriend had rolled over on him right away. Yeah,

1744
01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:22,080
Speaker 1: and that all that evidence would would have maybe been preserved. Yeah. Yeah,

1745
01:33:22,160 --> 01:33:24,320
Speaker 1: And so it's too bad for him. And she didn't

1746
01:33:24,320 --> 01:33:26,880
Speaker 1: I'm sure mean to do him any favors, but she

1747
01:33:26,880 --> 01:33:30,040
Speaker 1: she didn't. I mean, what's the word I'm thinking up here.

1748
01:33:30,680 --> 01:33:33,639
Speaker 1: She didn't mean to do him any harm. Well she did, obviously,

1749
01:33:33,720 --> 01:33:36,040
Speaker 1: she didn't mean to No, that was none of it

1750
01:33:36,080 --> 01:33:38,719
Speaker 1: was deliberate. She didn't like, oh, I'm gonna wait exactly

1751
01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:41,720
Speaker 1: a month because I know twenty eight days. No, it

1752
01:33:41,800 --> 01:33:44,439
Speaker 1: wasn't at all. But anyway, the whole thing is just

1753
01:33:44,840 --> 01:33:47,120
Speaker 1: really ashamed. I mean, I kind of hope he did

1754
01:33:47,200 --> 01:33:53,440
Speaker 1: do it because he's been in jail now for thirty yeah,

1755
01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:56,040
Speaker 1: almost thirty years, you know, so I kind of almost

1756
01:33:56,040 --> 01:33:58,840
Speaker 1: hope he did do it, because if he didn't do it, then,

1757
01:33:58,840 --> 01:34:03,320
Speaker 1: oh my god, that's more. Yeah, it really is. Alright, Well,

1758
01:34:03,360 --> 01:34:05,599
Speaker 1: if you guys have any guys have any other thoughts

1759
01:34:05,720 --> 01:34:10,639
Speaker 1: or theories or anything. I think that I don't really

1760
01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:13,400
Speaker 1: know what I think. Jeremy Bamber may just be innocent.

1761
01:34:14,640 --> 01:34:19,360
Speaker 1: I think it's possible. I think it's likely. Actually, uh, anyway,

1762
01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:22,120
Speaker 1: well that's that. I'm just gonna do a little, um,

1763
01:34:22,760 --> 01:34:27,360
Speaker 1: a little book keeping here to rep this thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1764
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:29,120
Speaker 1: you want to know what our website is. I'm sure

1765
01:34:29,240 --> 01:34:31,040
Speaker 1: you probably already know, but in case you don't, our

1766
01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:35,800
Speaker 1: website is thinking Sideways podcast dot com. It's a place

1767
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:38,560
Speaker 1: where you can listen to episodes. You can leave comments

1768
01:34:38,680 --> 01:34:43,759
Speaker 1: so you can check our links to various informational stuff. Um.

1769
01:34:43,920 --> 01:34:46,599
Speaker 1: You can also find us on iTunes. Subscribe, review us

1770
01:34:47,040 --> 01:34:50,840
Speaker 1: a nice review, preferably you know, it's not required. As

1771
01:34:50,880 --> 01:34:54,599
Speaker 1: far as streaming, it's anywhere. There's lots. There's millions, billions

1772
01:34:54,640 --> 01:35:00,200
Speaker 1: and billions of them streaming services. Well maybe not that

1773
01:35:00,200 --> 01:35:02,760
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of them. We are on Facebook. We

1774
01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:05,280
Speaker 1: have we have our our page, and we also have

1775
01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:09,120
Speaker 1: a group, right yeah, yeah, and so like us, follow us,

1776
01:35:09,880 --> 01:35:12,519
Speaker 1: like us and follow us joint friend us, don't friend us.

1777
01:35:12,880 --> 01:35:16,639
Speaker 1: We don't do anything on our regular page. Okay, what else?

1778
01:35:16,680 --> 01:35:20,320
Speaker 1: We were on the Twitter? We are thinking Sideways. That's

1779
01:35:20,320 --> 01:35:23,320
Speaker 1: with that that g and of course we have an

1780
01:35:23,320 --> 01:35:26,680
Speaker 1: email it's Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com and

1781
01:35:26,720 --> 01:35:31,639
Speaker 1: the Sidebreddit don't care called thinking Sideways. Yeah, I just

1782
01:35:31,640 --> 01:35:34,479
Speaker 1: just find us. These guys always look at me like

1783
01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:37,360
Speaker 1: I'm crazy. No, I know you've been championing, championing these

1784
01:35:37,400 --> 01:35:41,920
Speaker 1: subred getting there, Oh yeah for sure. Last of all,

1785
01:35:42,120 --> 01:35:46,240
Speaker 1: we were on Patreon. Patreon is like where you go

1786
01:35:46,320 --> 01:35:48,120
Speaker 1: if you want to pledge a certain amount of money

1787
01:35:48,160 --> 01:35:51,479
Speaker 1: per episode. It's like run for the arts. It's kind

1788
01:35:51,479 --> 01:35:55,680
Speaker 1: of like that yeah podcast that's totally optional, but if

1789
01:35:55,680 --> 01:35:57,479
Speaker 1: you feel like doing that, if you want to support us,

1790
01:35:57,880 --> 01:36:00,640
Speaker 1: because you know, actually would just paid the bill for

1791
01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:05,599
Speaker 1: our hosting for the Yeah, we appreciate all that. Yeah,

1792
01:36:06,320 --> 01:36:10,160
Speaker 1: I think, keep going. Yeah, Patreon dot com forward slash

1793
01:36:10,240 --> 01:36:15,040
Speaker 1: thicking sideways And that's it. So anyway, everybody, Next week

1794
01:36:15,240 --> 01:36:19,679
Speaker 1: we'll be back with another hard hitting mystery. Yeah alright,

1795
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:22,639
Speaker 1: a couple of them. Yeah alright, bye bye bye, guys,