Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
Speaker 1: welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our
Speaker 1: mission is to foster allyship empathy and understanding. I'm host
Speaker 1: Rams's job.
Speaker 2: He is Ramsy's job, I am q Ward. You are
Speaker 2: tuned into Civic Scipher.
Speaker 1: Think that the Truth, and we need you to stick
Speaker 1: around because we are going to have a conversation that
Speaker 1: people who have been having at dinner tables and online
Speaker 1: and in family groups and friend groups across the country.
Speaker 1: Should you unfollow somebody with a different political opinion as
Speaker 1: you specifically in our case, should you unfollow Trump's supporters.
Speaker 1: This is something that's come up quite a bit, and
Speaker 1: you know, there's a couple of ways that you know
Speaker 1: you can go about dealing with it, and we intend
Speaker 1: to explore those fully with you to help you determine,
Speaker 1: of course, what is right for you. But that's not
Speaker 1: the only thing. We are also going to spend some
Speaker 1: time talking about the police shooting death of Brandon Durham.
Speaker 1: You may have seen this online. There's a video that's
Speaker 1: circulating of police breaking into a house of a man
Speaker 1: that called them for help, and the man said that
Speaker 1: there was an intruder in the house. The police show up,
Speaker 1: They shoot the man who called him six times, even
Speaker 1: though he was shirtless, and you know, clearly in his
Speaker 1: as comfortable as state as he could be in while
Speaker 1: he was standing next to the intruder himself. He lost
Speaker 1: his life that night, and the intruder was taken into custody.
Speaker 1: And so we're going to break that down and a
Speaker 1: lot of other things. Today is going to be an
Speaker 1: emotional episode, I can imagine. So buckle up with us,
Speaker 1: but know that we're going to do our best to
Speaker 1: get through these things and to process this collectively as
Speaker 1: we do week to week on the show. So I
Speaker 1: believe you're in good hands. But before we move on,
Speaker 1: let's knock out some Ebony excellence.
Speaker 3: Shall we.
Speaker 1: I think you should take this.
Speaker 3: One all right.
Speaker 2: Today's Ebny Excellence is sponsored by Actively Black. There is
Speaker 2: greatness in our DNA. Visit actively black dot com. Story
Speaker 2: is from Afrotech middle schooler Inolia. Chocumbe is making a
Speaker 2: significant impact in classrooms. Chocombe, then a fifth grade student
Speaker 2: at Commodore McDonald stem Academy in Middleton, Connecticut, was tasked
Speaker 2: with developing a solution to address future pandemic challenges. In
Speaker 2: collaboration with her classmates, shot Black reports this inspired the
Speaker 2: creation of an air filter system designed to combat COVID
Speaker 2: nineteen and code viruses within classrooms. As reported by NBC Connecticut,
Speaker 2: Her device, which costs sixty dollars to make, is composed
Speaker 2: of a box, fan fower or furnace filters, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: duct tape, and cardboard. The Environmental Protection Agency in North
Speaker 2: Carolina further validated the invention. It showed that the air
Speaker 2: filter remove ninety nine percent of viruses in the air.
Speaker 2: Chakomb Woo told NBC Connecticut and that it was effective.
Speaker 2: October twenty fourth, eleven and a half million in funding
Speaker 2: was unanimously approved to expand the implementation of these air
Speaker 2: filter system to more schools across the state. The funds
Speaker 2: will be allocated to Yukon under its Supplemental Air Filtration
Speaker 2: and Education Program.
Speaker 1: I think that this is fantastic. A little girl, she's
Speaker 1: eleven years old, came up with something that will knock
Speaker 1: viruses out via air filters, and you know, to know
Speaker 1: that she was a little black girl. I think that
Speaker 1: I don't think Ebony excellence gets any more excellent than this.
Speaker 1: Story so truly inspiring. Shout out to Aolia Shakumbi. All right,
Speaker 1: you have had an interesting go as of late q
Speaker 1: very with respect to the content that you take in online.
Speaker 1: And I know that you have some stories where there
Speaker 1: are people who have really gone off the deep end politically.
Speaker 1: It's more than an opinion, it becomes their identity. Right,
Speaker 1: this is what you've told me before. And there is
Speaker 1: a place that is too far for you to go
Speaker 1: with folks. And then, you know, I believe you to
Speaker 1: be a fair man. There are people that you know
Speaker 1: and love and have known and loved for decades, decades,
Speaker 1: and they also disagree with you politically. Maybe they have
Speaker 1: not made their political decision their entire identity, but they
Speaker 1: share their political opinion online and you have to wrestle
Speaker 1: with whether or not you want to continue to consume
Speaker 1: their online content. And I want you to give us
Speaker 1: an example of maybe one or both and talk us
Speaker 1: through how you make those decisions. And I'll do my
Speaker 1: best to do this.
Speaker 2: You know, I think it would be easier if some
Speaker 2: of these people just share their political opinions online. It's
Speaker 2: the direct messaging me to share their political opinions that
Speaker 2: bugs me my whole life. I've known people who disagree
Speaker 2: with me or as a child, my mother politically right
Speaker 2: before I was you know, civically engage and participating in
Speaker 2: you know, the electoral system. My mother had close friends
Speaker 2: that she worked with that were Republicans, and on election
Speaker 2: day they would vote for the other candidate, and then
Speaker 2: the day after they would go to lunch like every
Speaker 2: other day, and they would you know, laugh and joke
Speaker 2: and share stories and continue to be friends. Because back then,
Speaker 2: you didn't take on your candidate as your personal identity.
Speaker 2: You didn't worship follow after and have a zealot like
Speaker 2: quote personal investment in the daily life or success of
Speaker 2: your political candidate. You may have shared some ideas on taxes,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. You might have shared some
Speaker 2: ideas on you know, certain parts of that person's political platform,
Speaker 2: but you didn't take on that person personally. And you know,
Speaker 2: so I see people all the time making the quote
Speaker 2: that they kind of all share. Only people on the
Speaker 2: other side of this say it, you know that we
Speaker 2: can disagree on politics and still be friends.
Speaker 3: Only Trump supporters say that.
Speaker 2: I've never heard anyone say that before Donald Trump was
Speaker 2: a candidate, right because I never got into a negative
Speaker 2: personal space with somebody because they voted for George Bush
Speaker 2: the first or the second time, you know, or Ross
Speaker 2: Perot or Ronald Reagan. So in my lifetime, those were
Speaker 2: the candidates that stand out from the Republican Party. Also,
Speaker 2: people like John McCain, who you know, I've learned was
Speaker 2: a decent human being. He just was a Republican and
Speaker 2: he wasn't a person who wished harm on me, on
Speaker 2: people that look like me. He just had different political
Speaker 2: leanings than I do. So the instances that I've had
Speaker 2: and Trump's first presidency and now in this one's people
Speaker 2: that I know, people that I consider to be friends,
Speaker 2: people that I care about, reaching out to me personally
Speaker 2: to defend him, and I always start my rebuttal asking
Speaker 2: them how they're doing, because in most cases these are
Speaker 2: friends I haven't talked to in a little bit, So like,
Speaker 2: you haven't talked to me, you know, in one case,
Speaker 2: you haven't talked to me since I became a father.
Speaker 2: My kids are doing great. Thanks for asking, Like reaching
Speaker 2: out to me in defense of this man you don't know,
Speaker 2: who doesn't know you, and you're defending him against me
Speaker 2: who you know, and care about.
Speaker 3: That doesn't make it.
Speaker 2: It never made any sense, you know, So I would
Speaker 2: always bring the conversation back to the personal relationship. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm doing good. I hope you're doing good. I hope
Speaker 2: your lady's doing good. I hope you guys as kids
Speaker 2: are doing well. They're beautiful, you know, I see the
Speaker 2: pictures of them. How are you?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: And then after some normal conversation, Hey, don't message me
Speaker 2: about dude anymore. I don't rock with him, and it
Speaker 2: has nothing to do with his politics. I could care
Speaker 2: less about his policy. I don't rock with him as
Speaker 2: a human being. And I don't understand you, who I
Speaker 2: know and care about, reaching out to me to defend
Speaker 2: this man you don't know and don't care about, who
Speaker 2: doesn't know you and doesn't care about you. So don't
Speaker 2: make that the center of a conversation.
Speaker 3: You have with me.
Speaker 1: Ever.
Speaker 2: Again, I'm not telling you how to vote. I can't
Speaker 2: guide you in a different direction. You're a grown man
Speaker 2: or you're a grown woman, But don't ever reach out
Speaker 2: to me to have a conversation to defend that man
Speaker 2: who you don't know, unless you've decided you no longer
Speaker 2: care about me.
Speaker 3: Which I don't think is the case.
Speaker 2: But that's fine if he's the person that's going to
Speaker 2: take you down that path, God bless you both.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: There's I remember the first time Donald Trump ran for president,
Speaker 1: and we actually did an episode similar to this one.
Speaker 1: Back then, I had her friend named Joel I went
Speaker 1: to high school with, and Joel was We used to
Speaker 1: skateboard together, you know, we used to do whatever, you
Speaker 1: know fifteen sixteen year olds, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And he thought I was the coolest Jobel was a
Speaker 1: he was Jewish, you know, he looked like your average
Speaker 1: American white guy, right, but that was my guy, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. And he thought I was the
Speaker 1: coolest guy in the world. Right. He liked the music
Speaker 1: I listened to. He did everything about me. He tried to.
Speaker 1: I mean, he would never admit this, but he tried
Speaker 1: to like be like me, right, And we had this
Speaker 1: solid foundation as friends. I know his parents, I know
Speaker 1: kind of the environment he comes from.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: Fast forward to you know, twenty sixteen, and he mentioned
Speaker 1: something to me and we were having a private conversation
Speaker 1: about he mentioned something to me about Donald Trump, and
Speaker 1: I was like, wait a minute. By then, he had
Speaker 1: moved out of state, but we had connected online, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, wait a minute, did you vote for that guy?
Speaker 1: And he's like, yeah, you know, I just I think
Speaker 1: he's like kind of better choice or you know whatever.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, blocked him. I was on
Speaker 1: it heavy back then, right, And I think that back
Speaker 1: then I blocked him and a lot of other people
Speaker 1: simply because I felt like they were being obtuse at
Speaker 1: my expense, right, or they were being willfully ignorant, or
Speaker 1: they were ignoring the fact that just because this benefits you,
Speaker 1: you're ignoring the fact that it's going to harm me
Speaker 1: or reshape my reality into a much scarier place. Whereas
Speaker 1: you know, the alternative, the inverse of this, if Hillary
Speaker 1: Clinton wins, your life is no scarier than it is now. Right,
Speaker 1: So for you, the bottom doesn't fall out of this
Speaker 1: election cycle, no matter what. For me, things change, The
Speaker 1: feeling in the air changes drastically, and it did. For
Speaker 1: four years we lived under that man's administration, and you know,
Speaker 1: people that rocked with him, that felt like he was
Speaker 1: protecting you know, white interests, they you know, they were
Speaker 1: they they turned their dials up a little bit more,
Speaker 1: they turned their dials up a lot more. That's not
Speaker 1: that's not parse words. Yeah, yeah, So you know I
Speaker 1: blocked him in the middle of that because I felt
Speaker 1: really hurt by that. I felt like, yo, man, how
Speaker 1: how how was it? Like you said, how is it
Speaker 1: that you can know me and then admit that to me?
Speaker 1: You know, what a hurtful thing for you to do? Like,
Speaker 1: clearly you're not my friend, Okay, you you you clearly
Speaker 1: are a much more selfish person than I had anticipated.
Speaker 1: You're a more I don't know, I could give you
Speaker 1: a bunch of adjectives, but that was my choice. Fast
Speaker 1: forward a couple of years after that, he and I
Speaker 1: perhaps reconnected through his sister or something like that, and
Speaker 1: he like, he was really hurt that I blocked him, right,
Speaker 1: and he let me know, He's like, yo, man, I
Speaker 1: thought we were friends. You know, you're one of the
Speaker 1: best friends I ever knew. You know, how could this,
Speaker 1: you know, me voting for this guy? How could that
Speaker 1: affect our actual friendship? You know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 1: you're somebody I love seeing you become who you are,
Speaker 1: become this big radio personality, you know, be on TV
Speaker 1: and billboards and whatever. He was hurt because I blocked him,
Speaker 1: and you know I told him why. I gave him everything.
Speaker 1: But that stayed with me. And then you're right. You know,
Speaker 1: this go around. There are people who have said out loud, Okay,
Speaker 1: well you know the election's over, we need to come
Speaker 1: together as a country. And you know I've said on
Speaker 1: this show what we need to do us we here,
Speaker 1: we need to batten down the hatches. There is a
Speaker 1: fundamental change in our future prospects and the opportunities that
Speaker 1: we have to create a more equitable society that come
Speaker 1: with a second Trump presidency. By fundamental change, I mean
Speaker 1: effectively impossible for us to see any meaningful change in
Speaker 1: terms of pursuit pursuing an equitable go at the American
Speaker 1: dream for us in our lifetimes, not with the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court in the figure four leg lock like that. So
Speaker 1: all of the police reform that we want, all of
Speaker 1: the reparations or reparations adjacent policies that we want, all
Speaker 1: of the protections that we want, all the funding that
Speaker 1: we want to go into, you know, offsetting unfavorable health
Speaker 1: care outcomes for black and brown people, to shore up
Speaker 1: you know, housing disparities, to you know, any number of things,
Speaker 1: pick your poison, all gone. And as hurt and as
Speaker 1: disgusted as I was the first go round, I'm not
Speaker 1: numb now. It hurts so much more because there was
Speaker 1: so much more at stake. And what I've seen now
Speaker 1: is people gloating, people who are as you mentioned, they're
Speaker 1: almost like zelots. They're still wearing their Maga Trump stuff
Speaker 1: after the fact, they're showing it off. You know, they
Speaker 1: have their flags. This is a very different phenomenon than
Speaker 1: when Obama was elected because we were excited, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously black people for a very specific reason, but we
Speaker 1: were excited. But I've never in my life had an
Speaker 1: Obama T shirt, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Or Obama flag or bumper sticker or hat or I
Speaker 2: don't have a twenty foot Obama and superimposed on the
Speaker 2: body of the Incredible Hulk or just in this really
Speaker 2: really strange behavior that Trump's supporters, you know, do, And
Speaker 2: it's important to point out you said the second go around.
Speaker 3: This is the third go round.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the third time that some people have
Speaker 2: supported that man.
Speaker 3: And again I watch people downplay the stakes.
Speaker 2: I watched people that I know, I heard people that
Speaker 2: I've known and I'm talking about known twenty thirty years.
Speaker 2: I've held their children, they've held mine. I've been in
Speaker 2: their homes and their parents' homes, and I've heard them
Speaker 2: kind of say leading up to the election, you know, well,
Speaker 2: you know, the the Democrats have some good social stuff,
Speaker 2: but Trump has the good financial stuff. And I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 2: so you've convinced yourself of that, because you'll convince yourself
Speaker 2: of anything to not feel awful for supporting that guy.
Speaker 3: But it's not the truth.
Speaker 2: He doesn't have some awesome financial plan, especially not for
Speaker 2: you or anyone that you know. I saw people say, Man,
Speaker 2: Washington doesn't affect our daily lives.
Speaker 3: It actually does. I think I made it pretty good president.
Speaker 2: He doesn't just vote local and don't worry about it,
Speaker 2: right in Kanye, And I'm like, right, ink, what are
Speaker 2: you people talking about? Why isn't everyone paying attention? Why
Speaker 2: do I feel like I'm crazy? Why do I feel
Speaker 2: like I'm losing it? Because I'm taking this so serious
Speaker 2: and I'm so uncomfortable, And dare I say afraid that
Speaker 2: I know every part of my life will change and
Speaker 2: for the people closest to me, how are we even
Speaker 2: having a conversation about what we're gonna do here. You
Speaker 2: know my kids, you know their mom. So how is
Speaker 2: the guy chanting build that wall? How is the guy
Speaker 2: promoting mass deportation? How is the guy demonizing immigrants? The
Speaker 2: guy your support when you know my kids and you
Speaker 2: know their mom. Even if it's just me, you're a
Speaker 2: single issue voter, right, You know me personally. You know
Speaker 2: what him becoming the president does to my reality. And
Speaker 2: that's still a decision that you're willing to make, and
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to still be your friend.
Speaker 1: YEA.
Speaker 2: For those that don't know, my children are half Mexican,
Speaker 2: I won't disclose more than that, but that should be
Speaker 2: enough to understand why that guy is disgusting to me
Speaker 2: and why I'm personally offended by people who support him.
Speaker 2: It's not about politics. Look up the man's history as
Speaker 2: a person, the decisions that he plans to make and
Speaker 2: will make. Because there are no guard rails anymore, there
Speaker 2: are no checks and balances anymore. Collectively, the world has
Speaker 2: watched white supremacists, oligarchs, and billionaires.
Speaker 3: Collude across national beef.
Speaker 2: Countries that have never gotten along before their governments using
Speaker 2: the Internet and cyber weaponry to help this man become
Speaker 2: the president, because, in case anybody's not paying attention, global
Speaker 2: white supremacy is uniting forces.
Speaker 3: And people who.
Speaker 2: Are not white and that will not benefit from it,
Speaker 2: helped it happen, convincing themselves it was somehow in their
Speaker 2: best interests and it wasn't no big deal that he
Speaker 2: was going to win.
Speaker 3: Everything about our lives will change.
Speaker 2: And we have to figure out some way to survive it,
Speaker 2: figure out some way to prepare our kids to live
Speaker 2: through it, and somehow pray that maybe their kids will
Speaker 2: have a different version of this. People thought this younger
Speaker 2: generation that our adults now would bring along all this progress,
Speaker 2: racism would die off with the old bigots. It didn't.
Speaker 2: They passed those traditions down to their children. Like religion,
Speaker 2: now it exists online and we have to see it,
Speaker 2: and now it exists in mass and they're emboldened to
Speaker 2: be forward and aggressive with it. So women and black
Speaker 2: people and immigrants are getting ran up on in public
Speaker 2: by people with swastikas and maga hats on. Tell me
Speaker 2: how that doesn't affect me every day? Tell me how
Speaker 2: my life is supposed to continue, Like everything's okay and
Speaker 2: how I'm not supposed to be terrorized or terrified rather
Speaker 2: at home wondering if my kids are okay at school.
Speaker 2: My son was getting kicked and called the N word
Speaker 2: before Trump won again. So you tell me how I'm
Speaker 2: supposed to feel now everything's not okay. It is a
Speaker 2: very big deal and things will be very different moving forward.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a tough.
Speaker 1: One, you know. I think that, just like everything, this
Speaker 1: is probably something that you want to tackle on a
Speaker 1: case by case basis. You know, if you come across
Speaker 1: someone online and they are leaning into this, they've kind
Speaker 1: of adopted this political identity and made it their own,
Speaker 1: made it a part of their character, how they present
Speaker 1: themselves to the world, and that's too much for you,
Speaker 1: Like mentally, it's too taxing for you. I think it's
Speaker 1: okay to unfollow, block, remove yourself. Lord knows I do it.
Speaker 1: I won't pretend that I don't. I do it constantly.
Speaker 1: Me being me, I always try to remember that there
Speaker 1: are some people who are maybe they're not Trump zelots,
Speaker 1: but they are Republicans who have supported us and this
Speaker 1: show along the way, And I have to remember that
Speaker 1: there are decent folks who have tremendous blind spots, and
Speaker 1: this is me giving a lot of grace.
Speaker 3: Forgive me for not extending that grace. You know who
Speaker 3: he is.
Speaker 2: You still support them, so forgive me if I don't
Speaker 2: give you any grace or feel like you're still decent.
Speaker 1: Well again, I recognize that that's giving a lot of
Speaker 1: grace to those folks. But that's the only way that
Speaker 1: I can say that. You know, for folks where you
Speaker 1: maybe have a tougher time on following them, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe there might be something to you know, trying to
Speaker 1: come together as a country and move forward and sharing
Speaker 1: your stories with them and sharing your plight and who knows, man,
Speaker 1: you get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar,
Speaker 1: as the saying goes, And as long as you protect yourself,
Speaker 1: block the people you need to block, and try to
Speaker 1: reach out to the people that you don't need to block,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe there's a path forward in there somewhere.
Speaker 3: So good luck,