Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm pim Fox.
Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Bramowitz. Each day we
Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for
Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store
Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L
Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot com. Him.
Speaker 1: I am so excited about our upcoming guest, Ralph Schlastein,
Speaker 1: President and chief executive officer of ever Core, because he
Speaker 1: has such broad perspective on everything that's going on right
Speaker 1: now with respect to tax changes and how it affects
Speaker 1: CEOs and their companies. He joins us now. Ever Court
Speaker 1: was the number one boutique investment bank in mergers and
Speaker 1: acquisitions last year. Ralph also Mr schlast and it was
Speaker 1: also the co founder of black Rock. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for joining us. I wanted to start with getting
Speaker 1: your sense of what the tax bill that is about
Speaker 1: to be passed by the Congress, what effect it will
Speaker 1: have on mergers and acquisitions activity. Well, I think as
Speaker 1: a general matter, there are a number of effects. First
Speaker 1: of all, the passage of the bill itself h takes
Speaker 1: away a major uncertainty about UH taxation and organizations of businesses,
Speaker 1: so things, you know, transactions that made strategic sense, but
Speaker 1: we're held up by uh, you know, deep uncertainty about
Speaker 1: how the world in eighteen would look versus UH. That
Speaker 1: issue has been resolved, and uncertainty as always the enemy
Speaker 1: of M and A activity. UH. The second thing that
Speaker 1: will happen is UH, with the repatriation of you know,
Speaker 1: two plus trillion dollars of cash that's held off shore
Speaker 1: right now by US companies. UH, some amount of that
Speaker 1: unquestionably will go into uh you know, strategic investments UH,
Speaker 1: you know, which you know will be done through M
Speaker 1: and A activity. The third thing that also I believe
Speaker 1: will happen is uh, you know, the strategic repositioning of
Speaker 1: business portfolios at large and particularly diversified companies. So in
Speaker 1: the seventeen world, UH, if a company wanted to sell
Speaker 1: a division that they had a very low tax basis in,
Speaker 1: they had, you know, uh to pay thirty five percent
Speaker 1: of the proceeds plus whatever the state tax was. UH.
Speaker 1: And you know, the hurdle for disposing of businesses, particularly
Speaker 1: low basis businesses, UH is you know a lot lower
Speaker 1: today and then finally the effect on uh you know,
Speaker 1: the general M and A environment. M and A thrives
Speaker 1: when we have uh strong equity evaluations, readily available credit,
Speaker 1: uh you know, good visibility as to the direction of
Speaker 1: the economy. UH and CEO confidence and uh you know,
Speaker 1: the first uh three have been present, and I think
Speaker 1: this bill reinforces CEO confidence and makes you know, it's
Speaker 1: somewhat more probable that M and A activity will continue.
Speaker 1: Mr Slawson, could next year be a record year for
Speaker 1: M and A. Uh you know, it's it's possible to
Speaker 1: predict uh, you know, the level of activity you know,
Speaker 1: in the next quarter, much less the next year. Uh.
Speaker 1: He's certainly true that all of the conditions are in place,
Speaker 1: uh for a very strong year in M and A activity,
Speaker 1: but was an extremely strong year four point two trillion
Speaker 1: dollars of announced transactions last year was about three point
Speaker 1: five This year. It looks to be tracking around that. Uh. So,
Speaker 1: you know, do I think it could possibly uh be
Speaker 1: positive versus the last two years? I would say yes, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, is it going to go back to the
Speaker 1: level of uh you know, I'm not smart enough to
Speaker 1: really know that. Dan Donovan, who is a Republican congressman
Speaker 1: serving uh Staten Island and Brooklyn some areas of Brooklyn,
Speaker 1: said that he's worried about quote mobility of taxpayers in
Speaker 1: the hop income brackets. He says losing even a small
Speaker 1: percentage of those households will decimate the state and city
Speaker 1: tax base. Do you agree with him? I think the
Speaker 1: biggest risk to New York City and New York State
Speaker 1: is precisely that, uh, you know, I honestly don't believe
Speaker 1: uh that you know, this bill will have that much
Speaker 1: of an effect on uh New York being the financial
Speaker 1: capital of the world. Uh. The only competitor to us,
Speaker 1: you know, of real concentration is London, and they have
Speaker 1: a heck of a lot more uncertainty than we do.
Speaker 1: And you know, financial businesses will aggregate and agglomerate in
Speaker 1: places where there are other financial businesses and where they
Speaker 1: can attract uh, you know, super talented young people, and
Speaker 1: the most talented young people are you know, opting with
Speaker 1: their feet to be in the places like New York
Speaker 1: City and this bill because they tend to be you know,
Speaker 1: entry level workers who aren't affected by the size of
Speaker 1: the state and local deduction or the mortgage interest deduction.
Speaker 1: Uh you know, they you know, they will continue to
Speaker 1: come in in in droves, I believe to New York City.
Speaker 1: What I do worry about, uh is people who are
Speaker 1: not uh attached by employment, uh you know, to the city.
Speaker 1: So those who are well off uh and you know,
Speaker 1: have significant net worths and incomes, but are uh you
Speaker 1: know long no longer working full time or retired. And
Speaker 1: you know, for those people, uh, this is a quite
Speaker 1: substantial tax increase and uh you know, they have complete
Speaker 1: discretion as to where they live. And you know, I
Speaker 1: think somewhere on the order of the tax receipts of
Speaker 1: New York State and New York City come from one
Speaker 1: of the population, which is overwhelmingly concentrated in New York
Speaker 1: and the surrounding uh suburbs. So uh, you know, it
Speaker 1: remains to be seen the effect that this will have
Speaker 1: on you know, what is already a you know, somewhat
Speaker 1: of a movement of you know, people who have you know,
Speaker 1: real discretion as to where they live, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: away from high tech states to lower no tech states.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for being with us. Ralph slow Stein,
Speaker 1: all right, I want to bring in Shira every Day,
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Gadfly columnist. When it comes to technology and the
Speaker 1: topic today happens to be Uber, and they lost, didn't they?
Speaker 1: They lost their fight in the European Union. Tell us
Speaker 1: what this loss means for Uber and what it means
Speaker 1: for the taxi and transport companies that have been fighting
Speaker 1: this up start. So there's a there was a case
Speaker 1: pending before the European Court of Justice and the legal
Speaker 1: question was basically is Uber a digital company, a tech
Speaker 1: company or is it a transportation company? And the court
Speaker 1: ruled that that Uber is basically a transportation company and
Speaker 1: it's a matter of law. Practically speaking, not much is
Speaker 1: going to change for Uber. So the way that Uber
Speaker 1: operates in most countries in Europe already complies with the
Speaker 1: idea that they are a transportation company, which means that
Speaker 1: their drivers need to be licensed UM in a way
Speaker 1: that similar to how taxi drivers are licensed. So practically speaking,
Speaker 1: not much changes. The interesting thing for me is kind
Speaker 1: of thinking beyond today's court ruling, UH two broader questions
Speaker 1: about Uber, which is one um will this have implications
Speaker 1: for the idea that Uber drivers are not employees, which
Speaker 1: is another legal matter that's pending in a separate court
Speaker 1: case in Europe. And two, does this mean that local
Speaker 1: transportation regulators will feel more empowered to kind of metal
Speaker 1: in Uber Uber's business in every conceivable country, which, to
Speaker 1: be honest, they've been doing everything they can to do
Speaker 1: that because the Uber drivers are paid a lot less
Speaker 1: than they make, they charge much lower rates, and they
Speaker 1: have gained a lot of market share very quickly. I'm
Speaker 1: just wondering how much cross border influence does this have.
Speaker 1: In other words, are US regulators looking at to what
Speaker 1: the European Union is doing and thinking of doing something similar.
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I I doubt it, at least
Speaker 1: in the US, because you know, the US does not
Speaker 1: really have this kind of the national transportation regulator regulation
Speaker 1: that's much more on a city by city basis. So
Speaker 1: while this ruling in Europe maybe it will empower some
Speaker 1: local transportation regulators in you know, New York or Seattle,
Speaker 1: I don't know that it will have kind of broad
Speaker 1: national implications in the US. So we'll see. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's fair to say that in every market in
Speaker 1: which Uber operates, it is already under intense um regulatory scrutiny.
Speaker 1: So it's hard to imagine that it will get any worse.
Speaker 1: They've got a new chief operating officer, Barty Hartford. Right
Speaker 1: here is the former chief executive officer of Orbits, that's right.
Speaker 1: And notably, the new number two at Uber used to
Speaker 1: work with Uber's new CEO who came from Expedia. So um,
Speaker 1: the two presumably know each other and like each other,
Speaker 1: otherwise they wouldn't agree to work together. And look, this
Speaker 1: is an important higher because Uper Uber's leadership bench has
Speaker 1: been decimated over the last year. So they lost their
Speaker 1: previous number two chief executive in March who left under
Speaker 1: unamicable conditions. Um, they lost chief legal officers now been replaced.
Speaker 1: They're looking for a new board chairman. They lost the
Speaker 1: one and a half billion dollars in the third quarter
Speaker 1: of the year. Yes, they have financial losses as well
Speaker 1: as leadership losses. So it's it's clearly been important to
Speaker 1: the new CEO at Uber to restock the leadership bench
Speaker 1: and preferably restock the leadership bench with people he knows
Speaker 1: or trusts well. Talking about trust, Uber has had some
Speaker 1: issues on that front as certainly with regulators and lawmakers,
Speaker 1: and part of Uber's reputation has been that they do
Speaker 1: kind of, I don't know, test the edges a little bit.
Speaker 1: And how much does the new leadership try to demonstrate
Speaker 1: that it's turning a page with a cultural shift. Look,
Speaker 1: I think that has been Job one for Uber's new
Speaker 1: CEO is basically to change Uber's reputation. He said something,
Speaker 1: Uber got this unfavorable ruling in London that may, at
Speaker 1: least in the future, prohibit Uber from operating in London,
Speaker 1: which is one of the company's largest markets. And the
Speaker 1: Uber CEO basically said, look, this is a sign that
Speaker 1: there is a high cost to a bad reputation. And
Speaker 1: that's what Uber has in almost every market in which
Speaker 1: it operates, at least with regulators and and including with
Speaker 1: drivers too in many cases. And the new CEO's job
Speaker 1: is to basically repair those relationships with regulators, with drivers,
Speaker 1: with customers in some cases, with with you know, writers.
Speaker 1: Sure just quickly Harvard coming in, He's going to oversee
Speaker 1: the regional general managers along with the gentleman who heads
Speaker 1: the food delivery business at Uber. Are they going to
Speaker 1: change the way the companies actually run? Are they going
Speaker 1: to keep the stream structure? I mean, I think it
Speaker 1: remains to be seen that it was interesting that when
Speaker 1: Uber's CEO came in, initially didn't think he needed a
Speaker 1: number two, and then once probably he saw how much
Speaker 1: repair work he was going to have to do with regulators,
Speaker 1: changed his mind and lift. Meanwhile, I was gaining share,
Speaker 1: so let me still see with that right. Shara Ovid,
Speaker 1: technology columnist with Bloomberg gad Fly, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us. She joins us here in our eleven
Speaker 1: three oh studios. It's important to get some perspective on
Speaker 1: bitcoin and get a sense of just how many accounts
Speaker 1: are involved, just how much real money, and just how
Speaker 1: much more institutional interest we have seen as the futures
Speaker 1: contracts start trading. Here to join us and give us
Speaker 1: that insight is Bobby Show, who is head of trading
Speaker 1: at Cumberland in Chicago. Cumberland is DRW Holdings Digital Currency
Speaker 1: unit is one of the world's largest bitcoin trading desks
Speaker 1: and liquidity providers in cryptocurrencies. Bobby, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us. I want to start with just how
Speaker 1: much more money are you seeing come into this market?
Speaker 1: Are you seeing a lot of new accounts being created,
Speaker 1: an institution starting to come in thanks for having me um. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, well, we've kind of experienced over the last
Speaker 1: let's call it twelve to sixteen months, really a shift
Speaker 1: of the profile of the counterparty that we face here
Speaker 1: at Cumberland. So, as you mentioned, Cumberland is one of
Speaker 1: the largest institutional size liquidity providers in the space. So
Speaker 1: we make markets for uh an array of different folks
Speaker 1: in the industry. We're looking to get exposure to different cryptocurrencies.
Speaker 1: Um you know, heavily dominated in bitcoin and ethereum. So
Speaker 1: what we've seen when we started the business in was
Speaker 1: we were catering to many folks who were very specific
Speaker 1: to the crypto space, payment processors, minors and and other
Speaker 1: individuals that were early adopters. Well, that shifted dramatically again
Speaker 1: in the last year or a year and a half,
Speaker 1: where you saw a number of cryptocurrency funds starting to
Speaker 1: pop up, a number of other institutional investors coming into
Speaker 1: the market. And really what that signals to me is
Speaker 1: that there was a lot of money and still is
Speaker 1: a lot of money sitting on the sidelines waiting to
Speaker 1: get exposure to this asset class. Right, So this class
Speaker 1: currently is sits around six billion dollars and that's obviously
Speaker 1: grown tremendously over the last few years. Bubby, when you
Speaker 1: talk about the hedge funds or funds that are specifically
Speaker 1: focused on cryptocurrencies, that triggered my interest because I saw
Speaker 1: that hedge Hedge Fund Research put out an end X
Speaker 1: of cryptocurrency hedge fund returns, and I'm trying to get
Speaker 1: a sense. Do you have a sense of the a
Speaker 1: U M under cryptocurrency specific funds? You know, Uh, what
Speaker 1: we've seen is the number of cryptocurrency funds has continued
Speaker 1: to increase month over month. So to give you some perspective,
Speaker 1: right in August that number was right around eighty cryptocurrency funds.
Speaker 1: This is globally um that number probably sits somewhere around
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty. And we don't see that number
Speaker 1: stopping um or slowing down anytime soon. Mainly because of this,
Speaker 1: this ability to access the market continues to be limited,
Speaker 1: and so what people are doing if if they are
Speaker 1: looking to get access into these market is they're looking
Speaker 1: to actually invest in kind of traditional um fund structures
Speaker 1: or vehicles like those that that we mentioned, crypto funds
Speaker 1: or hedge funds. Bobby, can you just tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about Cumberland, how many people are working on this,
Speaker 1: and maybe just tell us where you got the original
Speaker 1: inventory of bitcoin. Sure so, so Cumberland, as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: we're one of the largest liquidity providers in the world,
Speaker 1: um in terms of just our team and our desk,
Speaker 1: so we are global. Um. So, Cumberland's headquarters is here
Speaker 1: in Chicago, we have an office in London and we
Speaker 1: actually just opened up Singapore a few weeks ago, and
Speaker 1: so that allows us to kind of service our counterparties
Speaker 1: on the basis we are looking to open up in
Speaker 1: the near term um. And so basically, uh, we're we're
Speaker 1: great in the fifteen now, mainly just because the expansion
Speaker 1: and we see that number only growing over the next
Speaker 1: few months. UM. And so in terms of I guess
Speaker 1: inventory and things like that, when we had gotten started
Speaker 1: in the idea really came about in twenty twelve, give
Speaker 1: or take, when obviously through the walls of d r
Speaker 1: W and some of the folks here just trying to
Speaker 1: conceptualize what bitcoin is, how bitcoin is going to change
Speaker 1: the world, and and fundamentally, how we're gonna look at
Speaker 1: this thing in the future. But hang on, I understand
Speaker 1: that you actually, or at least Cumberland bought a lot
Speaker 1: of the bitcoins from ross Albrick. That's the founder of
Speaker 1: Silk Road who's now serving a life sentence right for
Speaker 1: narcotics trafficking. You bought seventy thousand bitcoins that were auctioned
Speaker 1: by US and overseas authorities. Is that correct? So we
Speaker 1: had bought seventy thousand bitcoins from the U. S. Marshal's
Speaker 1: office at auction. Okay, that's correct, yes, And do you
Speaker 1: still have those seventy thousand bitcoins or what what form
Speaker 1: did they currently take? So we still manage a large
Speaker 1: portfolio of cryptocurrencies, and that really allows us to do
Speaker 1: what one of our main kind of responsibility here is
Speaker 1: and and services that we provide is providing over the
Speaker 1: counter trading for large institutional sized positions. So when someone
Speaker 1: comes in and says, hey, I'd like to buy fifty
Speaker 1: million dollars a bitcoin, well, we have a portfolio that
Speaker 1: we managed to be able to supply that from our
Speaker 1: own inventory and so, um, we still manage a large
Speaker 1: portfolio of cryptocurrencies and and that obviously helps to support
Speaker 1: our business in making markets over the counter. Bobby how
Speaker 1: do you hedge against any downs it swings in your portfolio.
Speaker 1: So that's obviously something that is UM super important to
Speaker 1: us because as much as trading UH that we do
Speaker 1: during the day, from my perspective, we really take a
Speaker 1: lens of risk management. That's kind of the first thing
Speaker 1: that we look at um and so if we try
Speaker 1: to be aware of everything that's kind of happening in
Speaker 1: the market, Obviously it's very difficult to do so, mainly
Speaker 1: because this is a product that's traded seven around the
Speaker 1: world and can be accessed by a number of different
Speaker 1: types of folks in the market. And so with the
Speaker 1: advent of futures out there in the market, that kind
Speaker 1: of helps in terms of being able to hedge exposure.
Speaker 1: Although we'll kind of see what how much traction games
Speaker 1: in the futures market, but we are just trying to
Speaker 1: prepare and be aware of kind of everything that's out there.
Speaker 1: Thanks very much for joining us. Bobby Chow is head
Speaker 1: of trading for Cumberland and that's d r W holding
Speaker 1: digital currency unit. He's a joining us from Chicago and
Speaker 1: much appreciated for giving us a little bit of a
Speaker 1: window into the world of trading bitcoin. And other cryptocurrencies.
Speaker 1: It almost sounds like a joke or a story. The
Speaker 1: couple that went on a vacation, stayed in a particular location,
Speaker 1: liked it so much they decided to stay there permanently.
Speaker 1: Man Deep Singers are technology industry analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence
Speaker 1: and he's here to tell us about Airbnb launching their
Speaker 1: own apartment complexes. Man Deep tell us the story of Airbnb,
Speaker 1: I guess leveraging their brand and their expertise into a
Speaker 1: new market. Sure, so when you think about you know,
Speaker 1: online travel or online logistics, it's really about scale and
Speaker 1: network effects. These are the two most important things that
Speaker 1: any company that operates in this space has to have,
Speaker 1: and airbnbi had the first more vantage in vacation rentals.
Speaker 1: That space is getting crowded now with price sign and
Speaker 1: Expedia also expanding inventory. So what Airbnb is trying to
Speaker 1: do is essentially kind of grow their scale by getting
Speaker 1: into this new segment of you know, owning their apartments
Speaker 1: and really they're trying to offer you know, uh accommodations
Speaker 1: for business travelers. So that's a new segment they want
Speaker 1: to cater to. So we're talking about this in part
Speaker 1: because Brookfields, the big developer, just agreed to invest as
Speaker 1: much as two hundred million dollars in a joint venture
Speaker 1: with Needo. It's a multi family development partner of airbnbs,
Speaker 1: and this would go toward building a few apartment complexes
Speaker 1: I believe in Florida. Right. Uh, that would allow residents
Speaker 1: and owners to rent out their properties through the Airbnb
Speaker 1: website for up to half the year. Is that correct?
Speaker 1: Is this a first time type of thing or is
Speaker 1: there a model for this? So Airbnb is really the
Speaker 1: disruptor in this space, and they have helped, you know,
Speaker 1: for people to share their homes and you know kind
Speaker 1: of uh basically draw like inventory where it wasn't available before,
Speaker 1: especially in urban cities or even for that matter, you
Speaker 1: know in holiday locations. And and the way they're able
Speaker 1: to do it is provided technology platform that's Airbnb strength. Well,
Speaker 1: but what's the advantage to somebody who's buying one of
Speaker 1: these homes? I mean, what what would what would it takes?
Speaker 1: It's up to a half a year, so it's not
Speaker 1: more than that. So is this for basically snowbirds that
Speaker 1: want to make some income on the property while they're
Speaker 1: not there? Exactly? Yeah, and and a lot of these
Speaker 1: times these properties were vekend. So by allowing these owners
Speaker 1: to actually you know, put their properties on Airbnb's platform,
Speaker 1: it's free income and Airbnb knows how to manage these properties,
Speaker 1: so it's a win win for both of them, you know, man, Deep,
Speaker 1: I want to go back to something you said earlier,
Speaker 1: which is the business traveler and how this might be
Speaker 1: a real game changer when it comes to business travel.
Speaker 1: Rather than checking into a hotel where you're overcharged for
Speaker 1: everything from the coffee to the use of the business
Speaker 1: center if there is one, and paying for WiFi if
Speaker 1: you have to. They're going to architecturally design these new
Speaker 1: properties in order to cater specifically to these kinds of
Speaker 1: potential customers, isn't that right? Correct? And and they want
Speaker 1: to move up markets so till now their core customer
Speaker 1: base airbnbs core customer base for price conscious customers who
Speaker 1: are looking for the cheapest price on you know, urban
Speaker 1: dwellings and and really looking for a price that was
Speaker 1: cheaper than a hotel. Now, I think the fact that
Speaker 1: they have scaled, they the fact that they have created
Speaker 1: a brand name, they want to cater to all the
Speaker 1: segments and they want to have you know, separate uh,
Speaker 1: you know entities which serve these segments. So business travel
Speaker 1: is a big market it in itself, and are just
Speaker 1: going to add that they don't necessarily then have all
Speaker 1: of that inventory that they have to rent out all
Speaker 1: the time, just as a hotel group would, because that's
Speaker 1: stagnant inventory unless you know, you occupy it. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: the benefit of Airbnb is they are so good with
Speaker 1: crunching data that's available on their platform, and that's really
Speaker 1: their advantage that they're able to, you know, assess the
Speaker 1: supply demand equation much better than a hotel or you know,
Speaker 1: some of the smaller hotels will be able to do themselves,
Speaker 1: so they really have a good stock of what the
Speaker 1: current supply demand dynamics are. You know. I'm struck by
Speaker 1: the fact that Uber right now, which will talk about
Speaker 1: later in the show, is facing some increased regulatory pressure
Speaker 1: in Europe in part because they are designating them a
Speaker 1: taxi company, not necessarily a gig company. The way they
Speaker 1: attach company, the way that they sort of build themselves
Speaker 1: to investors. I wonder at what point this type of
Speaker 1: thing it's Airbnb and they start getting treated more like
Speaker 1: a hotel company than a tech upstart. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: very much of a risk. And when I look at
Speaker 1: all the new sharing economy companies like Uber, like Airbnb,
Speaker 1: they started off as a technology platform, they picked an
Speaker 1: area to focus on, and they really you know, leverage
Speaker 1: technology to mass scale. There is a risk that there's
Speaker 1: a cost side of the equation that obviously could get
Speaker 1: affected once you become regulated. So once you know, Uber
Speaker 1: gets regulated or n B Airbnb gets regulated, it's gonna
Speaker 1: have an impact on the cost side, and that's always
Speaker 1: a risk. But having this investment from Brookfield, that's got
Speaker 1: to be a stamp of approval, or at least that
Speaker 1: conditional stamp of approval. Absolutely, and no one is doubting
Speaker 1: that Airbnb is a viable business. It's there for the
Speaker 1: long term just because they have the scale, they have
Speaker 1: the network effects, and in this business that's what matter.
Speaker 1: So it's not going over anytime soon. It's just that
Speaker 1: the margin dynamics may change depending on whether they are
Speaker 1: regulated entity or not. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: Definitely something that we will watch to see who wants
Speaker 1: to buy these, how often they rent them out, and
Speaker 1: what is airpnths regulatory fate Man Deep saying thank you
Speaker 1: so much, tech industry analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence, joining us
Speaker 1: here in our eleven three studios. Thanks for listening to
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg P and L podcast. You can subscribe and
Speaker 1: listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whatever podcast
Speaker 1: platform you prefer. I'm pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at
Speaker 1: pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at Lisa Abramo. It's one
Speaker 1: before the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio