WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 82 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.680 Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:06.400 you know this is a compilation episode, So every episode 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:09.440 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.280 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:15.800 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:17.720 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:19.479 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:21.800 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:30.000 Other podcast fans. Today, it's me James, and I'm joined 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.280 by Cave Hoda, who's a doctor in the Bay Area 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.040 and also host of the House of Pod podcast, which 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:38.920 NEXTI podcast. For you to add to what you've done 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.640 listening this podcast, you can add that to your podcast rotation. 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:47.479 But we're talking today about medication abortions, and specifically about 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:53.120 attempts to ban medigation abortions by anti abortion activists, which 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:56.760 included a recent case at the Supreme Court. So, Cave, 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:59.040 would you maybe like you to add anything I'd missed 0:00:59.080 --> 0:00:59.840 from your introduction? 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:02.640 No, yeah, that was pretty much all the good stuff. 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.119 Thank you for having me. This is super fun. I 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:07.920 love all your podcasts. I like your work, so thank 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:12.880 you for having me. And yeah, the topic is. It's 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:18.560 super duper important, and it is in the headlines a lot, 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:21.040 but at the same time, not enough, you know what 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:24.040 I mean. It's like people are talking about it a ton, 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:27.040 but I don't know if they're talking about it enough, 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:31.080 or if the gravity of the situation is really hitting people, 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:33.800 or if it is. We're just overwhelmed by how much 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:36.240 bullshit we've had to deal with in regard to this, 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:38.160 and people are kind of feeling a little bit beaten 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:40.920 about it and feeling a little bit disheartened. But I 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:43.440 am super glad that we're going to discuss it today. 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:48.640 Yeah, I think maybe it is bizarre, how I don't Yeah, 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:51.120 I think we're dealing with so much bullshit and every 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:54.680 day something terrible happens, and so I can understand how 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.040 this kind of came and went in the news cycle. 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:00.760 At the same time, it does seem like why the 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:02.920 fuck where they're not ten million people out in the 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:06.080 street to try to burn things down when like, like, 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.440 if you're listening to this and you don't think you 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:13.959 know anyone who's used this, it's most likely because someone 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:16.000 in your life hasn't shared that with you. Like I 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:18.280 can think of more people than I can count on 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:20.760 my fingers who I care about very dearly who have 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:22.920 used this absolutely. 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:25.120 Someone posted this once and I thought it was really 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:28.280 actually pretty brilliant. It was like, if you don't know 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:31.240 anyone that has, that means they don't trust you enough 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.400 to tell you, or they think you're a douche, So 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:36.560 like there's a reason you know. 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:38.680 So, yeah, it's it's very. 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:42.959 Common, right, and so I think maybe to start out with, 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.000 we should explain, like what is a medication abortion and 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:48.600 how does it work? And why is it so common? 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:50.760 Yeah, I'll talk a little bit about that. 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:53.040 I think maybe we could touch a little bit on 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:54.880 the history of it too, because I think it is 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.720 kind of interesting to look at it from a bigger perspective. 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:02.760 Medication abortions, they account for more than half of all 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.120 abortions nationwide. It's usually done. There are a couple of 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:07.680 different ways of doing it, but the most common one 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:11.720 by far is a two drug combination mif for pristone 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:15.440 and misoprostol, and these are the ones. They are used 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:19.280 generally in the United States and in other countries as well. 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.760 You can use misoprostle alone, but it's just not as 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:28.040 effective as these two drugs together. Mifa prostone blocks progesterone 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:30.720 and what that is. It's a hormone that you need 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:32.480 to make the pregnancy happen. 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:35.520 It makes the uterus a hospitable place for it to occur. 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:37.840 And we'll talk a little bit. 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:43.240 I think about the the mifa prostone the misoprostole as well, 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:46.120 because that's a prostac land and they do a bunch 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:48.400 of things in the body, but one of them is 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.880 to cause contractions of the uterus. In that that's two 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:57.400 these two drugs together. One makes the pregnancy less able 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:00.320 to progress and then the other one expels it. So 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:04.960 that's how these two medications work. What I think is 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:08.520 really interesting about them is a little bit of the 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:13.400 backstory to it. So my understanding that there might be 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:17.120 some medical anthropologists or historians who know more about it 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:20.320 than me. I'm sure that's the case, but it's you 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:22.200 have to put this all in perspective because when I 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:28.640 grew up, abortions were all invasive, surgical essentially, and it 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.320 was a you had to have it done in a 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.440 very specific manner. Now we have the opportunity and the 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:38.520 option to do it in a much I think safer, 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:43.720 control less traumatic way. And you know, it kind of 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:48.360 started in Brazil because in Brazil, you know, I know, 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:51.440 because it doesn't make sense, right, but abortion is illegal there, 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.960 as you might imagine, and women there, like women in 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:57.000 any place, are going to look for ways to have 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.480 abortions if they want or need one. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:01.080 And one of the. 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:03.560 Things they would do is it basically go to like 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:05.560 a drug store or a pharmacy and they would look 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:12.720 for medications that said beware, this could cause abortions. That's 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:14.680 that's one of the ways this all started. One of 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.680 those was mister prostal that medication I mentioned, that's a 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:21.000 prostaglandin Again, prostal glands do a lot of things. I'm 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:24.520 a gi doctor by trade, and you know from my perspective, 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:28.040 they're also used for treatment of ulcers, not really something 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:30.840 we go to that much or anymore, but there are 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:32.760 other uses for it. And so they found that it 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:34.760 could cause these contractions of the uterus and they would 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:38.599 use it there for that purpose. The French were actually 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:42.080 the ones that worked on mifiprostone or RU four eighty six, 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:44.560 and that's the one that blocks the progesterone and stops 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:48.839 the pregnancy from progressing. So the background, I think is 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.599 really interesting and how far it's come during this time. 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:56.080 You know, how it started when our use here, to 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:58.960 how it changed during COVID, I think is a really 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.200 fascinating thing. And where we're at now with these medications. 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.440 I can't we're gonna talk about it. I'm sorry, I 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.960 don't want to jump ahead, but I'm just so I'm 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:12.880 so upset, And I know I should be at this 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.440 point in my life much more used to like these 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:22.200 weirdly cynical bs moves of a Republican judge or whatever 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:26.800 promoting this as being a safety issue. I know I 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.479 shouldn't be surprised and upset by it, but I am. 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.359 And that's the part that really bothers me right now 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:36.320 is the argument they're using against it is so bullshit 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:37.720 and cynical that. 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.560 And again I don't think enough people are talking about it. 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.599 No, it is like I'm the same way, like I 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:47.160 should be, a lot of my work has been border reporting, 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:52.480 and like I should by now be Like, no, I shouldn't, 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:56.599 because those people are fucking terrible. Like there's a group 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:58.800 of journalists who just seem to have lost their capacity 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.479 to care for other human being and can report on 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:05.800 human suffering without taking any toll on their on their 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:09.400 personal mental health, and they congregate on various Facebook groups 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:11.720 and in bars and expensive hotels all around the world. 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:16.560 And I don't like that. But like, similarly, a number 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:21.400 of contive conservatives around word, like anti immigration States used 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:25.000 Title forty two. They soon to keep Title forty two right, 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:29.440 citing the risk of COVID nineteen from migrants crossing our borders. 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:31.640 And these are the same fucking people who have been like, 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:35.160 we don't want to wear masks, we shouldn't have vaccine mandates, 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:41.920 Like yeah, it is infuriating that they can't just be like, yeah, 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:44.080 I don't think you should have the right to bodily autonomy, 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:45.760 and I don't care how I get there, so I'm 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:47.920 just going to use this troll ass methodology. 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:54.000 It bothers me that there were doctors involved in this case, 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:56.240 the court case, and it does bother me that there 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:58.600 are doctors that are fighting this. I mean, I get 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.560 it if not every doctor wants to do an abortion, 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:08.120 I totally understand that. But to not stand for a 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.120 woman's autonomy over her own body is the part that 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.840 I can't get. I mean, it's like it's I'm not 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:17.040 an ethicist by any means, but that's like the bare 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:20.720 minimum is like you're supposed to believe in someone's autonomy 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:24.360 over themselves, and the fact that it's being removed piece 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.120 by piece it should be bothering doctors who are who 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.120 are supposed to be following ethics, you know what I 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:31.440 mean it. 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:33.800 So I'm also a little bit from that end. 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:37.640 I'm mad at our own I'm mad at our own people. 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:40.680 I'm mad at doctors and I and I am on 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:44.400 my little echo chamber in Twitter, where there's lots of 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:45.960 doctors who feel the same way I do, and I 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.840 hear from them, but I know that it's kind. 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:53.000 Of there alone. I'm not hearing it from other doctors 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:55.080 out in the real world, you know, and not enough 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:55.520 at least. 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.960 Yeah, we should explain a little bit that like the 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:03.160 original case, the complainants were doctors, right, who were claiming 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.400 that they were having to treat complications that arose from 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:08.160 medication abortion. Is that right? 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:09.360 Yeah, they're a part of it. 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:10.959 I don't know how big a part of it, or 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.720 if they're just used because they're Like a lot of 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:17.240 times people for good or bad reasons, will bring a 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:19.920 doctor out in a white coat at like a press conference, 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:22.080 which is like, you know, like we're just wearing white 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.280 coats all the time, you know, and just the sand 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:27.320 in the background and sort of add some sort of 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:30.200 weight to the argument. And so I don't know how 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.760 much of it was that in this situation, but I mean, 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:36.320 the argument that they're making that these medications are not 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:40.559 safe just it's a silly argument. I mean, we know 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:45.080 that the mortality rate for medical abortion is less dramatically 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:48.160 than the mortality rate for childbirth. And that changes too 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.840 depending on if you're like a white woman in a 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:55.480 wealthy neighborhood or a black woman. There's different mortality rates, 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:58.280 but pretty much across the board it's going to be safer. 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.480 I mean, the chance so a serious complication is there. 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:05.320 It can happen any medication. It can happen penicillin, it 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.199 can happen higher rates. By the way viagra. 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.640 Viagra came out, there was the first year it came out, 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.440 there was about five hundred and fifty deaths from viagra. 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:19.679 We granted the cardiovascular problems patients had, whatever, but still 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:23.760 there was It's not without risk. You don't see any 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:26.760 judge from Texas you know, coming out to talk about 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:28.120 viagra being an issue. 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:32.000 No, I think you're right to highlight that, like being 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:36.280 pregnant is also a risk, and much greater risk in 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:38.720 many cases, especially like you said, because of these different 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:42.000 intersectional things which can make it a greater risk for 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:45.680 some people. So I would love to talk about why 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:49.480 these became more popular's the wrong way, but maybe more 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:55.040 widely used to facilitate abortions during coviduse. That's super interesting. 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.000 Yeah, So the long and the short of it is 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.480 when they first started doing these tests, I'm sorry, when 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:05.760 they first started doing these medication abortions, there was a 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:07.520 bit of a process that had to go into it, 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:11.720 Like doctors were worried. I mean, we're always conservative. Doctors 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.600 are always conservative. We always start with like probably more 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:18.480 than it's absolutely necessary, and then over time we do 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.600 enough research, we get enough like evidence behind us that 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:23.480 we can peel back parts of it. So when it 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:27.520 first started, you know, people wanted ultrasounds, lab tests make 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:30.400 sure that they weren't people weren't mnemic or didn't have 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.280 a risk of bleeding. They wanted to make sure the 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:37.000 livers were okay, labs are probably weren't totally necessary. The 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:41.120 ultrasound I think scared people a lot or people really 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:42.959 wanted there always be an ultraound just to make sure 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:46.079 there wasn't like an ectopic pregnancy or a pregnancy or 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.920 it doesn't occur where it's supposed to outside of where 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:51.360 we expected to and those can be dangerous. And if 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.720 you do take these medications, you know, obviously you're going 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:56.839 to be a bit more of a risk if you don't. 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:00.200 If you don't know, that's an ectopic pregnancy. So there 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:02.280 was a lot of a lot of things that people 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.320 had to do back then. Then then started to peel 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:07.599 away slowly, like doctors might were starting to be like, 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:09.199 all right, do I really need to get liver tests 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.600 if I'm going to give this patient a medicational abortion. Uh, 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:14.640 And those tests started to peel off slowly. And then 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:19.600 when COVID happened, basically people weren't able to go to 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.000 the doctor as much or as easily. There weren't doctor 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:25.400 offices that were open. It was harder for people to 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:27.720 get to in the beginning, you know, and it only 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:31.720 got harder with COVID. So the ACLU actually sued the 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:37.280 FDA and they actually won and through that the women 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:39.360 did have to come in anymore for these They could 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:42.640 all be done via like teleconference or a video chat basically. 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.440 Okay, so which is a big game changer. 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:50.080 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes it much easier. And so 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:52.280 it used to be the case at least, so you 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:56.440 could get these things in the mail, right particably after 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.840 some kind of teleconference or video chat. Is that still 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:03.600 the Is that still the case in states where there 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.520 isn't like the strictest kind of abortion ban or is 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:07.319 it universal? 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.480 No, it's my understanding it's still, as of now possible. 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:13.520 It's still available. You're supposed to be able to do it. 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:16.920 I think we're going to find that it's becoming more difficult. 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:21.160 We're already seeing cases. I mean they've been highlighted on 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:23.480 social media. How often they're happening now, I don't know, 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:27.000 but there we see cases now of you know, a 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:32.679 pharmacist not fulfilling medical abortion pills. And in the comments 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.240 section when you look at why why not, they're saying 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:37.600 because is now banned by a federal judge. 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:40.920 So, I mean it's not true it was. 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.440 The Supreme Court has you know, has okayed it for now, 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:48.320 I mean for now it's still okay and allowed, but 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:51.439 there's gonna be enough confusion about it. There's going to 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.880 be enough worry about it that people are going to 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.839 have a harder time doing it, getting it or. 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:01.120 Even finding you know, people that are willing to do it. 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.720 At this point, there's probably a lot of concern from 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.320 patients and medical providers. So, you know, even though it 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:11.040 is technically still allowed, I mean, I don't know how 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.280 for how long you know, I am worried. 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:15.160 And also I. 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:18.120 Don't know if this is really hindered you know, people 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:21.680 being able to access this, and I think it probably is. 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:24.760 Yeah, it certainly hasn't made it smoother, as you said, 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.640 right that it it only takes you know, one person 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:29.520 to have delay of a number of weeks or whatever, 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:31.320 and it might not be an option or it might 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:34.440 not be as safe. And how do you know how 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:38.960 long how far along these these medical medication abortions are 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.960 like generally advised, you. 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:47.840 Know, the medicational abortions are considered safe in the second 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:50.800 and I think even parts of the third trimester, but 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:56.600 generally after the first trimester is when it's it's considered 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.720 a little bit more dangerous and most medical professional would 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:02.440 want you to come in to have it done. 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:05.320 So, I mean that's my understanding. 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:09.440 I'm not obigian, I should make that clear, but I 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.720 think for for the most part, within the first trimester, 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.160 people generally consider that's something that's manageable at home. Outside 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:18.960 of that, I think you're probably more likely to have 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:22.320 the medical professional want you to come in and see them. 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.400 Yeah, that makes sense, and in some states it's going 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.440 to be a lot harder, if not impossible, or countries 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:32.240 like I know, for instance, I've come across groups in 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:37.200 Myanmar were distributing these drugs. Abortion has been illegal, they're 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:42.240 more or less for since British colonial rule. I think 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.440 it was United as a as a sort of state, 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:51.120 not really a nation. The it's been a it's been illegal. 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:55.160 They've sort of made some moves towards it being less illegal, 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.120 and then obviously with the with the coup, it's it's 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.080 become more illegal again, and people there have been It 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.920 was a website up in in twenty twenty one about 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.840 how they facilitated mutual aid distribution of it, which I 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.720 found super interesting. And then at some point they obviously 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:10.640 that must have got them some heat and they took 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:13.680 it down, but it's used all over the world in 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:16.880 places where people don't have access to care, right alongside 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.760 being used here where people may or may not have 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:21.480 access to care, which is pretty fucked up. 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:25.840 Yeah, I mean it's funny that, like, you know, we're 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:31.560 comparing ourselves. I mean, it's you would think twenty twenty three, 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.160 we wouldn't be, you know, looking to other countries to 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.400 guide us at this point. You would hopefully we would 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:42.320 have figured this out by ourselves after everything. But yeah, 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.920 I mean it's funny. You look at the historical you 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:47.720 look at it from a global perspective, it is interesting. 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:49.800 It's really a global effort to. 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:53.800 Try and get these medications out to people. One of 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:58.080 the major major companies that sends these pills and mails 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.400 these pills is in Europe, and they try to to 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:03.360 other countries. It is sort of a global effort at 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:05.560 this point to try it, which is kind of cool. 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.080 That's one good thing about this. It shows you that 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:10.520 most of the world seems to be on board with this, 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:12.919 whether or not governments are or not. You know, I 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:16.320 hear eighty percent here in the United States is it's 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:18.840 for it. I mean, I think that sounds about right, 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.160 you know, and the fact that there's so many people 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.000 in the country and then the world trying to figure 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.600 out ways to get these medications to people. That's one, 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:31.240 I guess, sort of reaffirming thing about this. 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.480 It's impressive to see people just doing ground streets to 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:39.160 meet too laid. One thing that was very popular around 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:40.920 the time of the Adobe's decision. A lot of people 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:46.040 were sharing these videos on do it yourself abortion pills 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.919 or like homemade I think it was misaprosto, it may 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:54.840 have been both. It may have been Mithipristoine as well. Obviously, 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:59.480 like this is empowering and like we want people to 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:02.320 be empowered to extitgings about their own body, but perhaps 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:05.640 you could explain why, like it's also suboptimal. 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:10.080 Yeah, you know, it's it is definitely suboptimal. I mean 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.200 I'm not every time I say something like that, there's 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:15.760 always some corner of the Internet that's like, well, you're 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.800 a shill for big farm or you're like part of 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:22.240 the medical industry or whatever, and yeah, sure whatever. 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.200 But I mean it is it's a risk. 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.520 I mean, these medications, like I said, they're safe, but 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:31.480 they're not without risk. You know, there are things that 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.960 can occur when you have this are contradications to some 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:38.320 of these medications, like there's contradications to mif aprosta and 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:42.679 like ectopic pregnancy like I mentioned, and you can get 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.239 that worked up to be evaluated, or you could at 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:48.840 least have the very basic questionnaire filled out that would 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.760 help at least give you the hint if it's there. 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:56.840 Chronic adrenal failure, porphyria, inherited porphyria. These are things that 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:01.399 are that doctors who do this think about and know 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:05.199 and as part of the process to get these medications, 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:07.800 even if it's just a questionnaire that you fill out online. 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:10.280 So there there are risks. 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:12.720 There are bad things that can happen with these medications, 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:13.919 as there are with penicillin. 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:14.480 Like I mentioned. 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:18.040 I've seen people with, you know, life threatening allergies to 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:22.080 to penicillin. I've seen people with who have liver failure 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:25.480 from basic stuff that you know people take all the time, 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:28.919 like tail and all. So you know, it's it's it 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:33.080 doesn't make me very nervous, and I like, do it yourself. 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.800 Is I like that that people are trying to find 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:39.960 ways around it. But and I hope we never get 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:43.679 to a place where this is that's absolutely necessary. I 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:48.639 hope you know, but I understand why people are curious 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:50.080 about it and why you're looking into. 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:51.359 It and reading about it. 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:54.960 I obviously I'm not going to ever really promote do 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:57.359 it yourself medicine to that Farvard degree. 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:01.320 Yeah, like someone, I use insulin every day, right, and 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:05.040 people have been making their own insulin. I've seen on 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.080 the internet for for a long time, and I find 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:11.240 it super fascinating. Incident, also costs fuckle to produce, like 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:13.600 like a couple of cents, and it costs hundreds of 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:18.280 dollars to buy. Folks can accuse me of being a 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:20.880 shell for big Farmer, but I have plenty of publications 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:21.840 pointing in the other direction. 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:23.600 You and me both, brother. 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:28.639 Yeah, yeah, look at us, two guys just rigging in 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:29.520 the pharma doel. 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:30.199 That's it. 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:34.800 Yeah, that's that's why I'm recording in this shed provided 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:40.359 by FISA. No, and yeah, there is. These things are 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:43.960 not expensive to make, they shouldn't be expensive to buy, 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:47.199 and they can be had extremely safely. And the things 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.000 that are stopping you from accessing them cheaply and safely 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:55.160 and easily are politicians and also pharmaceutical companies. Sometimes. 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:56.000 You know. 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:58.639 That's the funny thing too, is that you think for 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:02.880 like these right wing are always talking about like relaxing 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.639 regulations and whatever. It's like, I wonder if they recognize 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.200 that on some level, what this is doing is it's 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:11.720 just going to impinge on you know, quote unquote innovation 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.680 in pharma. Like if you're a farm company and you're 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:18.359 thinking about some medication that could be used for this, 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:21.160 or you're thinking about creating a new medication for something 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:25.800 that could in the slightest way be deemed inappropriate by 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:29.040 some judge somewhere, and then if they're making the decision, 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:31.920 not the FDA, Like if you're a farm industry, you 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:33.640 may be like, it screwed. I'm not going to worry 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:36.160 about that medication at all, you know, nothing else. 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:39.200 This is going to cut back on innovation in pharmacy. 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:41.640 Yeah, And like anything with a contry indication for being 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:45.560 pregnant would be vulnerable to this. Right, we should probably 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:50.240 explain that the use of myth of pristone as an 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:55.440 abortion drug was approved by the FDA in an expedited process, right, 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:59.760 and that was what was being challenged. Can you explain 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:03.000 why although it's faster that doesn't mean it's any less thorough. 0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:06.800 In my understanding, I might be wrong. The FDA went like, yeah, 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:08.600 fuck it, let's give it a try and see what happens. 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:10.880 No, I mean it's a very good question. I mean 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:15.000 we do have safety data behind it. So again, you're 0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:17.400 exactly right. This is not done in a vacuum. It's 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:22.880 not done haphazardly. I mean there is there still always 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:25.639 is a pretty strict process. 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:27.280 To go through for these medications. 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:29.920 It kind of it's the same thing that we had 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:34.320 to deal with with operation warp speed one of the 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:41.479 worst names or a very important medical advancement. So, you know, 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:45.560 people like, how can these things be safe? It's happened 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:48.160 so quickly, and it's not really true. I mean, there 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:51.600 is years of research behind all these things. There's years 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:54.000 of research behind it. There was a study from the 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:57.440 Newly Journal of Medicine about the safety of these abortion pills. 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:00.919 It had been studied worldwide and been looked at for 0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:05.239 a while. You know, because abortion is so common and 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:08.760 there are so many of so many done that it 0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:11.760 makes it easier to see the results. It makes it 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:14.399 easier to see the numbers. Part of the reason we 0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:17.560 were able to follow COVID so well and get information 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:22.080 so quickly. Was because it was everywhere, and when it's everywhere, 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:25.119 it does raise the numbers. It makes it easier to 0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:27.560 get people enrolled in the study, it makes it easier 0:23:27.560 --> 0:23:30.040 to make a study happen. So that's kind of what 0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:34.960 was happening here. This is something that was there wasn't 0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:37.680 a lot of question about. Again, are there risks to 0:23:37.720 --> 0:23:41.840 the medication. Absolutely, there's risks to every single medication that 0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:46.920 you get. I mean, I've heard toxicologists say that if 0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:49.720 Thailand all had to go through the same vetting process 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:52.919 that we have medications go through today, that talanol wouldn't 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:53.480 make the cut. 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:54.280 Wow. 0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:57.360 And as a liver specialist to myself, I can attest 0:23:57.400 --> 0:23:59.439 to that. I mean, how talanell is a great medication 0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:02.199 if it's used, but I've also seen it cause a 0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:05.040 lot of liver failure. It's a very common cause of it. 0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:09.359 So there's there's a pretty strict and there always is 0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:13.440 a pretty strict method to the FDA when it comes 0:24:13.440 --> 0:24:14.080 to this sort of thing. 0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:17.680 It's not done haphazardly, right, and I think most of 0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:19.600 the people attacking it and not attacking it from a 0:24:19.640 --> 0:24:23.320 place of deep concern for the health of people who 0:24:23.359 --> 0:24:26.040 can get pregnant. It's quite the opposite. It's an attempt 0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:28.320 to control people's bodies, right, right. 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:30.040 Yeah, they're not. These are the same people. 0:24:30.040 --> 0:24:32.320 They're not concerned about the fact that the mortality rate 0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:34.439 in like African American women who are pregnant is so 0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:35.160 much higher. 0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:37.560 They'll never hear them talk about that. 0:24:37.560 --> 0:24:39.639 They don't give a damn, unless, of course, they want 0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:42.360 to somehow cynically tie this into like racism or something. 0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:44.440 They'll find a way to twist it in this weird 0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:47.920 way to be like, yes, you see Livprostone is racist 0:24:48.280 --> 0:24:53.760 or something, you know, so I yeah, yeah, sorry. 0:24:53.560 --> 0:24:58.560 No, Yeah, it's cynical and asinine, empathetic, but sadly like 0:24:58.640 --> 0:25:03.320 it's also the reality. Yeah, I wonder, like, obviously none 0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:06.440 of us can see the future. And we've talked about 0:25:06.440 --> 0:25:10.359 how mister prostal can be used on its own if 0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:11.760 I'm not mistaken, right. 0:25:12.200 --> 0:25:14.439 Yeah, it's not as good, it's not as good if 0:25:14.480 --> 0:25:15.119 it's used together. 0:25:15.200 --> 0:25:18.560 But yeah, do you foresee a world where like that 0:25:18.760 --> 0:25:19.840 is targeted next? 0:25:20.640 --> 0:25:20.800 Yeah? 0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:22.760 I mean, if they're really serious about that, they're going 0:25:22.840 --> 0:25:25.080 to try. I mean, I think at the end of 0:25:25.119 --> 0:25:30.600 the day. We can keep zelots out of the Supreme 0:25:30.680 --> 0:25:31.920 Court somehow. 0:25:32.960 --> 0:25:34.639 Get a while before we get another crack at that. 0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:39.960 Yeah, then I think we should be okay, because I mean, 0:25:40.000 --> 0:25:44.199 it's it's a bad argument. The argument doesn't really hold up. 0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:47.960 I mean, some judge interpreting the medical data with or 0:25:48.000 --> 0:25:51.639 without the help of some you know, quasi scientific group 0:25:51.720 --> 0:25:55.280 of like pro life doctors. It's just not going to 0:25:55.320 --> 0:25:58.040 hold up to what the FDA has done and has 0:25:58.080 --> 0:26:02.119 to go through. So I don't I don't know, I 0:26:02.119 --> 0:26:04.560 don't know. I want to say, I really want to say, 0:26:04.600 --> 0:26:06.439 I don't think it's going to be an issue, but 0:26:06.960 --> 0:26:09.639 I can't guarantee it because the fact that you know, 0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:11.760 this is such a relatively safe drug and it's been 0:26:11.760 --> 0:26:15.240 called the question, I mean, it's pretty brazen. I think 0:26:15.880 --> 0:26:18.520 that they're doing this and well they do it against 0:26:18.520 --> 0:26:22.040 other medications. Yeah, probably well win though I hope not. 0:26:22.720 --> 0:26:26.720 But yeah, I think this is setting they're setting basically 0:26:26.800 --> 0:26:29.040 a roadmap for this to be done again and again 0:26:29.119 --> 0:26:30.879 for medications they don't like. 0:26:31.680 --> 0:26:35.080 Yeah, and those are all going the medications they that 0:26:35.240 --> 0:26:37.159 like are all going to affect a certain group of people, right, Like, 0:26:37.240 --> 0:26:40.200 that's right, that's just that seems to be the sort 0:26:40.200 --> 0:26:43.360 of target group and for like you said, a very 0:26:43.400 --> 0:26:46.919 small percentage of the of the population who are just 0:26:46.960 --> 0:26:49.719 on their culture or bullshit and don't really care how 0:26:49.720 --> 0:26:54.000 this affects thousands of people's lives. Obviously, Like folks are 0:26:54.040 --> 0:26:57.159 also facing like they can't access gender firming care and 0:26:57.240 --> 0:26:59.280 lots of places, right, this is the other massive area 0:26:59.280 --> 0:27:04.040 of healthcare that Republicans seem to be very willing to 0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:06.520 ignore the some Democrats ignore the evidence on it and 0:27:06.800 --> 0:27:09.720 just attack people for culture war reasons. And I know 0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:13.240 that one thing folks do there is organized mutual aid 0:27:13.240 --> 0:27:15.800 networks to help people access medications that they need for 0:27:15.840 --> 0:27:21.480 their gender firm and care with medications like this is 0:27:21.520 --> 0:27:24.440 it like like you said, there are lots of contraindications 0:27:25.359 --> 0:27:28.520 and it's not always safe, Like are these things that 0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:32.719 people like people will be inclined and get to be like, 0:27:32.720 --> 0:27:35.120 oh shit, maybe I should stock up, maybe I should 0:27:35.160 --> 0:27:39.360 like load my medicine cabinet, and maybe we could discuss that, 0:27:39.960 --> 0:27:42.840 like you said that there are risks that come alongside that. 0:27:43.840 --> 0:27:48.280 Yeah, I mean I certainly would understand if I was 0:27:49.320 --> 0:27:53.280 in a position where I thought my bodily autonomy could 0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:57.880 be going away anytime soon. I think I could see 0:27:57.880 --> 0:28:00.560 why someone would stock up on it. I mean, I 0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:02.920 don't know enough about the medication to tell you about 0:28:02.960 --> 0:28:07.040 its shelf life. I know that it is just require 0:28:07.119 --> 0:28:09.320 some special handling, So I don't know if it's the 0:28:09.400 --> 0:28:12.160 kind of thing that you can keep for long periods 0:28:12.160 --> 0:28:14.760 of time. But you know, at that part of it 0:28:14.840 --> 0:28:18.840 was worked out, I certainly don't see. I mean, I 0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:21.920 could see why you'd want it. Again, it comes down 0:28:21.960 --> 0:28:24.280 to the do it yourself nature of it. Now, the 0:28:24.680 --> 0:28:28.560 beauty of this is these what these what we've seen 0:28:28.680 --> 0:28:30.960 with these medications is when we did the COVID, we 0:28:31.000 --> 0:28:33.200 took it when COVID happened, and we kind of took 0:28:33.240 --> 0:28:35.240 it out of the doctor's hands and made it more 0:28:35.320 --> 0:28:36.919 directly to the patient. 0:28:37.359 --> 0:28:41.200 Actually, the outcomes weren't much different. So that seems to 0:28:41.240 --> 0:28:45.320 be a very reaffirming thing. But you know, I still 0:28:45.960 --> 0:28:49.080 I would like for there to be medical involvement in this. 0:28:49.120 --> 0:28:51.440 I would like doctors to be involved in this. 0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:51.959 You know. 0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:56.120 Yeah, perhaps we are progressing towards a place where like 0:28:57.160 --> 0:29:00.200 technology can help with some of that and take way 0:29:00.200 --> 0:29:03.000 the liability from doctors in places where they could face 0:29:03.040 --> 0:29:03.920 a long time in jail. 0:29:05.000 --> 0:29:06.680 Yeah, I mean, that's that's the other thing. 0:29:06.720 --> 0:29:08.960 It's going to be interesting to see how this pans out, 0:29:09.160 --> 0:29:14.440 like from doctors in the future, if there's gonna be 0:29:14.480 --> 0:29:18.720 people still willing to learn these skills, you know, because 0:29:18.800 --> 0:29:22.360 not every abortion can be done, you know, medically, still 0:29:22.360 --> 0:29:26.200 going to be a need for for the the more 0:29:26.200 --> 0:29:29.360 older fashion forms of abortion that's still going to need 0:29:29.400 --> 0:29:33.200 to be done. So, you know, I'm hoping that people 0:29:33.240 --> 0:29:34.640 are still going to be willing to learn from this, 0:29:34.680 --> 0:29:37.360 and if anything, I'm actually hoping that people young medical 0:29:37.360 --> 0:29:40.400 students are more interested to learn from it. 0:29:40.520 --> 0:29:42.320 So we'll see how it goes. Like you know, when 0:29:42.560 --> 0:29:43.880 when COVID. 0:29:43.520 --> 0:29:46.360 First started, there was a huge burst of people interested 0:29:46.400 --> 0:29:49.760 in medical school and going into facious disease. But then 0:29:50.280 --> 0:29:52.760 you know, over time, and and in the ER for 0:29:52.800 --> 0:29:55.480 that matter too, they saw the need for it, They 0:29:56.240 --> 0:29:59.600 saw the call to arms, you know, and it took 0:29:59.640 --> 0:30:04.240 three years of seeing what kind of bullshit ID doctors 0:30:04.320 --> 0:30:07.080 and ER doctors had to deal with before those medical 0:30:07.080 --> 0:30:11.280 school numbers dropped way off and people interested in those fields, 0:30:11.320 --> 0:30:15.320 you know, in fact, er for people trying to go 0:30:15.360 --> 0:30:17.560 into er, they have to go through this full match process, 0:30:17.640 --> 0:30:20.320 which is like a big deal. Like it's a stressful 0:30:20.320 --> 0:30:21.880 thing where you try to get into the best place 0:30:21.920 --> 0:30:24.400 you can. And r has always been a pretty like 0:30:25.080 --> 0:30:28.240 sought after field. It's not the most competitive, but you know, 0:30:28.800 --> 0:30:30.640 there is there is a good amount of competition to 0:30:30.640 --> 0:30:33.320 get into the good places. And this was like the 0:30:33.440 --> 0:30:35.840 first year I remember where there was a ton of 0:30:35.960 --> 0:30:41.160 unfilled spots at good institutions too, So, like you know, 0:30:41.240 --> 0:30:43.400 how I do worry will this be the. 0:30:43.360 --> 0:30:43.959 Same sort of thing. 0:30:43.960 --> 0:30:46.520 Will there be an uptick of people interested in women's 0:30:46.680 --> 0:30:52.280 healthcare and and providing that vital that vital need. I 0:30:52.280 --> 0:30:54.480 think there probably will be, But will it be sustained? 0:30:55.200 --> 0:30:55.680 I don't know. 0:30:55.800 --> 0:30:58.600 Will they just give up after seeing how much bullshit 0:30:58.640 --> 0:31:01.760 has thrown their way. It's totally feasible. 0:31:01.760 --> 0:31:04.320 Yeah, I mean, if you're looking, it has to be 0:31:04.360 --> 0:31:06.640 like an idea, Like my sister is an obg wayn 0:31:07.200 --> 0:31:09.880 and like does my sister doesn't live in the United States, 0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:11.880 who doesn't have to deal with any of this bullshit, 0:31:12.600 --> 0:31:15.480 and so like that very much enjoys a job and 0:31:15.520 --> 0:31:17.320 it's very passionate about it. But I can see how 0:31:17.400 --> 0:31:19.120 doing get here. It would have to be almost a 0:31:19.120 --> 0:31:21.400 political idea or your commitment as well, Like you can't 0:31:21.920 --> 0:31:25.320 practice your your your career in half the state. I 0:31:25.360 --> 0:31:27.160 don't even know if you can go to medical school 0:31:27.200 --> 0:31:32.040 in like states where it's banned, And like that's a. 0:31:32.000 --> 0:31:32.800 Really interesting question. 0:31:32.800 --> 0:31:36.080 I wonder if it will affect the medical training in 0:31:36.200 --> 0:31:40.320 medical school. Yeah, in places where that's really interesting and 0:31:40.400 --> 0:31:45.120 scary now that I think about it, it, Yeah, it's 0:31:45.120 --> 0:31:45.520 gonna be. 0:31:45.600 --> 0:31:47.080 It's going to be available for people. 0:31:47.080 --> 0:31:49.720 There's always going to be organizations fighting to do this 0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:53.960 and to get it out there. But how how hard 0:31:54.000 --> 0:31:56.240 it's going to be to find a provider to help 0:31:56.280 --> 0:31:59.480 you with this that in the future. I'm hoping U 0:31:59.680 --> 0:32:01.240 does not become a problem. 0:32:01.560 --> 0:32:03.720 Right, Yeah, I did all these little sort of It's 0:32:03.760 --> 0:32:07.480 really important, I guess like that folks do whatever they 0:32:07.520 --> 0:32:11.240 can to preserve these rights because generally, like the state 0:32:11.480 --> 0:32:14.960 doesn't give back power that it's able to take from people. 0:32:15.480 --> 0:32:18.600 And this could mean a lot like this, And I'm 0:32:18.640 --> 0:32:20.560 not like trying to conflate fucking having to have a 0:32:20.640 --> 0:32:24.440 vaccine to breathe on someone and and like you know, 0:32:24.480 --> 0:32:26.760 like that is not really attacking your body autonomy, like 0:32:26.800 --> 0:32:28.720 you're attacking someone else's body autonomy if you want to 0:32:28.720 --> 0:32:31.920 give them an effects disease, right, But when it takes 0:32:31.960 --> 0:32:35.680 away things like this, they you know, like like that 0:32:35.720 --> 0:32:37.880 has other consequences. Even if you're not a person who 0:32:37.880 --> 0:32:39.360 can get pregnant and you don't think you're ever going 0:32:39.440 --> 0:32:42.520 to be getting somewhat pregnant, like this should matter to you, 0:32:42.600 --> 0:32:44.880 because your autonomy should matter to you. 0:32:46.320 --> 0:32:48.080 It seems a matter to most of the people in 0:32:48.120 --> 0:32:51.480 the country, So I mean, that's a part of this 0:32:51.560 --> 0:32:54.640 I don't understand. I mean, I guess it's all ideologically driven, 0:32:56.160 --> 0:32:58.960 but because it doesn't seem like a winning proposition if 0:32:59.000 --> 0:33:01.240 you're a politician to do something this unpopular. 0:33:01.320 --> 0:33:04.520 But I don't know much about politics, I suppose. 0:33:04.960 --> 0:33:09.640 Yeah, I mean, what is popular and what wins elections 0:33:09.640 --> 0:33:12.760 in the United States can be vastly disparate things, as 0:33:12.760 --> 0:33:17.080 we've seen, given the system which is deliberately organized to 0:33:18.280 --> 0:33:20.880 befuddle the results of a popular vote. 0:33:21.040 --> 0:33:21.440 Okavit. 0:33:21.640 --> 0:33:26.040 I wonder if there's anything else you wanted to discuss 0:33:26.080 --> 0:33:30.440 around this issue of abortion and bodily autonomy. Obviously it's 0:33:30.520 --> 0:33:32.400 going to be one that plays out massively in twenty 0:33:32.440 --> 0:33:32.960 twenty four. 0:33:33.240 --> 0:33:36.560 But I want to make it clear. I mean, this 0:33:36.600 --> 0:33:38.640 should be pretty evident my stance on it. But I 0:33:38.640 --> 0:33:42.480 do believe abortion is essential and evidence based healthcare. 0:33:42.680 --> 0:33:45.680 It's in that evidence based part of it. 0:33:45.760 --> 0:33:49.680 I think is important to reiterate because we do have 0:33:49.840 --> 0:33:52.320 data on it, we do have data that it is safe, 0:33:52.840 --> 0:33:55.840 we do have data that it's safer than some of 0:33:55.880 --> 0:34:01.080 the other options. And if it's removed as option, we 0:34:01.320 --> 0:34:05.880 are not only taking away, you know, a woman's right 0:34:06.040 --> 0:34:09.000 to attimey over her own body, but we're putting them 0:34:09.040 --> 0:34:13.080 at more health risks potentially for it. And you know, 0:34:13.520 --> 0:34:16.640 I'm not an er doctor, I'm not obi gine, but 0:34:17.040 --> 0:34:19.359 I can guarantee that they're going to have to deal 0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:22.560 with a lot more problems because of this. If that happens, 0:34:22.800 --> 0:34:24.880 They're going to be dealing with a lot more complications 0:34:24.960 --> 0:34:27.200 and difficulties because of it. 0:34:27.600 --> 0:34:29.319 Yeah, there's one thing I wanted to hit that I 0:34:29.360 --> 0:34:32.359 totally forgot about. I don't want to I don't want 0:34:32.360 --> 0:34:36.200 to phrase this in terms of like people wanting to 0:34:36.280 --> 0:34:38.239 end a pregnancy have any more or less right to 0:34:38.280 --> 0:34:40.480 do so than people needing to end a pregnancy, because 0:34:40.560 --> 0:34:42.319 everyone should have the right to choose what happens to 0:34:42.320 --> 0:34:43.320 their body equally. 0:34:43.400 --> 0:34:44.120 Yeah, but. 0:34:45.560 --> 0:34:45.839 I am. 0:34:46.080 --> 0:34:47.960 I believe I'm right in thinking that many of these 0:34:48.000 --> 0:34:52.000 drugs are relied upon by people who have miscarried or 0:34:52.000 --> 0:34:54.399 have a pregnancy isn't compatible with life, right And. 0:34:54.600 --> 0:34:58.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean the horror stories about women 0:34:58.320 --> 0:35:00.880 that are forced to carry if you know, baby it's 0:35:00.920 --> 0:35:03.680 a term that are not compatible with life, or you know, 0:35:04.640 --> 0:35:10.040 a severe critical illness it's those are horrifying. And these 0:35:10.040 --> 0:35:15.000 are medications that can be done again at home for 0:35:15.160 --> 0:35:17.879 some For some patients it can be done at home, 0:35:17.920 --> 0:35:20.600 which is you know, not great. You know, it's still 0:35:20.680 --> 0:35:24.200 not gonna be maybe a fun process, but it'll be 0:35:24.239 --> 0:35:26.719 a much better process for them, much less traumatic, I 0:35:26.760 --> 0:35:29.799 would hope, you know, than having to to have it 0:35:29.840 --> 0:35:33.839 done later on and in a hospital in a much 0:35:33.840 --> 0:35:37.000 more clinical, cold setting. And we try to make these 0:35:37.040 --> 0:35:40.720 things as good as possible. Our nurses are amazing, and 0:35:40.840 --> 0:35:43.439 our doctors who do this are are compassionate. 0:35:43.800 --> 0:35:46.560 But you know, if someone could do something. 0:35:46.280 --> 0:35:50.600 Safely at home, you know, and it can be done safely, 0:35:50.640 --> 0:35:51.440 I don't see why not. 0:35:52.200 --> 0:35:54.640 Yeah, it can. The dignity and privacy of your own 0:35:54.680 --> 0:35:57.040 sting where you to use your home or you know 0:35:57.239 --> 0:36:00.640 whatever with your family. Then yeah, I suppose being forced 0:36:00.680 --> 0:36:03.719 to carry a baby which isn't compatible with life like 0:36:04.040 --> 0:36:06.800 that's got to really fuck you up. And it's I 0:36:06.840 --> 0:36:08.480 don't know, I don't think people are thinking about what 0:36:08.480 --> 0:36:11.279 they're doing to other people when they make these these 0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:16.200 I don't know, horrible decisions, but yeah, I hope they 0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:21.839 didn't get to keep making them. I guess we can 0:36:21.880 --> 0:36:27.160 all interpret that however we want. Are there any Are 0:36:27.200 --> 0:36:31.360 there any organizations that you'd suggest folks follow get involved with, 0:36:31.880 --> 0:36:36.319 like their groups that are helping to facilitate access to care, 0:36:36.480 --> 0:36:39.800 either where it's difficult or just trying to campaign to 0:36:39.880 --> 0:36:40.439 keep it legal. 0:36:41.680 --> 0:36:44.040 You know, I know there's been a lot of criticisms 0:36:44.120 --> 0:36:46.840 in the past towards its organization from all sides, But 0:36:47.120 --> 0:36:48.799 you know, I've known a lot of people who work 0:36:48.840 --> 0:36:52.040 for Planned Parenthood, and I still think they do good work. 0:36:52.120 --> 0:36:55.799 You know, They're not perfect by any means, and they have. 0:36:55.800 --> 0:36:59.399 Valid criticisms from both from really from from a couple 0:36:59.440 --> 0:37:02.440 of different angle but still, the people I know that 0:37:02.480 --> 0:37:05.560 are working there are aren't doing their best and are 0:37:05.760 --> 0:37:07.320 really want to help. 0:37:08.280 --> 0:37:11.600 And then there are international organizations still. 0:37:11.400 --> 0:37:16.839 That are involved in the abortion making the abortion pill accessible, 0:37:17.960 --> 0:37:19.560 and there's a lot of different ways to get to that. 0:37:19.640 --> 0:37:22.480 I don't have one in particular that I would recommend, 0:37:22.560 --> 0:37:26.160 but the one that I have worked with people that 0:37:26.280 --> 0:37:31.040 I've met in seen and talked to and have learned 0:37:31.040 --> 0:37:32.799 so much from a lot of those people are from 0:37:32.880 --> 0:37:34.400 Plant Parenthood. 0:37:34.440 --> 0:37:37.400 Okay, yeah, yeah, And like you said, they have been 0:37:37.440 --> 0:37:41.279 criticized that they've also stepped up to meet like what 0:37:41.400 --> 0:37:46.680 is a pretty terrible situation, and they're building more clinics 0:37:46.800 --> 0:37:49.640 on the borders of states where you don't have the 0:37:49.719 --> 0:37:52.240 right to terminate your pregnancy so that people can travel. 0:37:52.600 --> 0:37:55.480 And yet it's pretty fucked up that that's what we're 0:37:55.520 --> 0:37:58.799 doing now we have the underground railroad for abortion kind 0:37:58.840 --> 0:38:02.719 of thing. But yeah, I mean it takes a big 0:38:02.880 --> 0:38:06.360 organization to deal with the organization that is the state 0:38:06.560 --> 0:38:09.239 or you know, the state of Texas or whatever. It's 0:38:09.239 --> 0:38:12.160 done really well. Is there anything like you'd like to 0:38:12.160 --> 0:38:13.680 plug or do you like to tell people where they 0:38:13.719 --> 0:38:14.239 can find you? 0:38:15.480 --> 0:38:18.839 So I'm available on Twitter at the House of Pod 0:38:18.960 --> 0:38:23.000 if you do Twitter, and you can listen to our podcast, 0:38:23.200 --> 0:38:25.600 The House of Pod it's pretty much everywhere you find 0:38:25.880 --> 0:38:31.080 your podcast, and guests range from like world Expert physicians 0:38:31.160 --> 0:38:34.839 to like Garrison Davis, so like you. 0:38:34.840 --> 0:38:39.080 Know, contrasting those two things. They're an expert of their 0:38:39.080 --> 0:38:39.399 own way. 0:38:39.480 --> 0:38:42.799 And and I'm sure I'll get you on soon enough, 0:38:43.040 --> 0:38:44.000 whether you like it or not. 0:38:44.280 --> 0:38:47.960 And so we get a lot of the different guests. 0:38:48.040 --> 0:38:51.680 The range is pretty wide, and we talk about medical 0:38:51.840 --> 0:38:54.520 related health topics and try to do it in a 0:38:54.600 --> 0:39:00.600 relatively informal way, and so it's I think it's relatively fun. 0:39:00.680 --> 0:39:03.480 It's been really educational for me. I'm really enjoying doing 0:39:03.520 --> 0:39:05.840 it and I get to be cool people like you. 0:39:06.040 --> 0:39:09.960 So it's a good show, I think. But I'm biased 0:39:10.040 --> 0:39:11.040 because it's my show. 0:39:11.800 --> 0:39:14.640 I enjoy it. People should listen. Thank you, Thank you 0:39:14.719 --> 0:39:15.680 very much, Thanks a lot. 0:39:15.719 --> 0:39:29.680 Mate. 0:39:31.000 --> 0:39:33.680 Hey everybody, this is Robert Evans. Welcome to It Could 0:39:33.760 --> 0:39:37.719 Happen Here, a podcast about things falling apart and occasionally 0:39:38.440 --> 0:39:42.040 about how to stop things from falling apart. Today we're 0:39:42.040 --> 0:39:45.000 doing one of those latter episodes. I'm happy to say 0:39:45.000 --> 0:39:48.200 we've actually got kind of something that's overall uplifting to 0:39:48.239 --> 0:39:52.240 talk about. If you are someone who pays much attention 0:39:52.480 --> 0:39:55.960 to the right wing, and particularly to the current right 0:39:55.960 --> 0:40:00.400 wing campaign against LGBT and most particularly transgender people. You 0:40:00.440 --> 0:40:02.440 are aware of a guy named Matt Walsh. He is 0:40:02.680 --> 0:40:04.880 a you might call him a pundit at the Daily 0:40:04.920 --> 0:40:08.480 Wire who has taken it upon himself to become kind 0:40:08.520 --> 0:40:12.360 of one of the central figures in the present campaign 0:40:12.880 --> 0:40:16.920 against trans people, to limit their rights to transition, to 0:40:17.800 --> 0:40:21.000 push laws that criminalize their existing in public spaces. He's 0:40:21.040 --> 0:40:23.040 a real piece of shit on, one of the worst 0:40:23.080 --> 0:40:26.240 people in the country presently, and like all terrible people, 0:40:26.480 --> 0:40:29.120 he has been going around in a series of speeches 0:40:29.480 --> 0:40:34.120 invited generally by local student body republican organizations at universities. 0:40:34.120 --> 0:40:35.799 It's not the only people who invite him to speak, 0:40:35.840 --> 0:40:39.799 but that's what we're talking about today. Oliver Wyline is 0:40:39.920 --> 0:40:43.120 a local community activist who showed up at one of 0:40:43.160 --> 0:40:46.240 these events and who recorded what was happening the reaction 0:40:46.360 --> 0:40:49.760 to Matt Walsh being invited to speak at a college 0:40:49.760 --> 0:40:53.960 in Iowa City. And yeah, Oliver, welcome to the program. 0:40:54.000 --> 0:40:56.600 First off, Yeah, thank you so much for having me on. 0:40:57.040 --> 0:40:59.080 And yeah, I just kind of wanted you to start with, 0:40:59.640 --> 0:41:02.800 how did you become aware of what was happening and decide, 0:41:02.880 --> 0:41:04.400 you know, to show up and do what you did, 0:41:04.400 --> 0:41:06.320 because I became aware of you just reading your thread, 0:41:06.600 --> 0:41:09.520 which was a mix of you know, Twitter uh posts 0:41:09.560 --> 0:41:12.000 on what was happening in some videos of what had 0:41:12.040 --> 0:41:13.000 been happening on the ground. 0:41:13.680 --> 0:41:13.960 Yeah. 0:41:14.080 --> 0:41:18.239 So I am a towney here in Iowa City. I'm 0:41:18.239 --> 0:41:22.920 not a student, but I have you know, I'm very 0:41:22.920 --> 0:41:26.480 close both physically and you know, just personally with lots 0:41:26.520 --> 0:41:32.000 of activists on campus at Iowa City, lots of young activists, 0:41:32.960 --> 0:41:36.640 particularly organizations like the y DSA. They have a couple 0:41:36.719 --> 0:41:42.280 immigrants rights associations, some lgbt q IA associations and everything. 0:41:42.800 --> 0:41:48.520 So when this was made public that the YAF the 0:41:48.600 --> 0:41:52.080 Young Americans Foundation, that's what it stands for, right I think. 0:41:54.560 --> 0:42:01.000 But they announced that Matt Wall was indeed going to 0:42:01.000 --> 0:42:05.799 be speaking in April, and of course, you know, lots 0:42:05.800 --> 0:42:08.200 of people just started sending me things like Wow, I 0:42:08.200 --> 0:42:12.680 can't believe these motherfuckers are bringing Matt Walsh out of everybody, 0:42:12.760 --> 0:42:16.560 even though it wasn't very surprising because they love to 0:42:16.560 --> 0:42:20.080 have the YAF here loves to bring people to speak 0:42:20.120 --> 0:42:24.319 that are objectively terrible people. They just recently had al 0:42:24.480 --> 0:42:26.840 Alan West. 0:42:26.080 --> 0:42:29.600 Oh yeah, I'm sure you know all about him. 0:42:29.600 --> 0:42:31.920 Oh no, yeah, he's yeah, yeah, playing the hits with 0:42:32.000 --> 0:42:32.840 Alan Dubbs. 0:42:33.480 --> 0:42:33.719 Yep. 0:42:34.640 --> 0:42:39.960 So yeah, the reaction was, you know, just kind of 0:42:40.000 --> 0:42:43.799 like a general we should do something about this, that 0:42:43.840 --> 0:42:46.560 Matt Walsh has come to campus or is going to 0:42:46.560 --> 0:42:49.640 come to campus. So you know, there was lots of 0:42:49.680 --> 0:42:56.120 flying campaigns, lots of calls online. There is a petition 0:42:56.760 --> 0:43:01.000 circulating trying to get the university to not allow Matt 0:43:01.000 --> 0:43:05.279 Walsh on campus. But here in Iowa, the board of 0:43:05.360 --> 0:43:10.440 regents is all just appointed by a Republican governor, Kim Reynolds, 0:43:10.440 --> 0:43:13.279 so you know, there's no way that they would do that. 0:43:14.239 --> 0:43:18.560 And yeah, so that's how everybody found out about it. 0:43:19.040 --> 0:43:21.719 And you know, it was just a lot of the 0:43:21.840 --> 0:43:24.320 YAF would put up flyers and then they would instantly 0:43:24.360 --> 0:43:28.280 get torn down and they would cry about it. Yeah, 0:43:28.400 --> 0:43:30.360 that was a lot of the build up to this event. 0:43:31.080 --> 0:43:31.960 Yeah, that's how I knew. 0:43:32.480 --> 0:43:34.040 And one of the things, I mean, the thing that 0:43:34.560 --> 0:43:37.520 because obviously there are different right wing shitheads speaking in 0:43:37.600 --> 0:43:40.480 various places and protests against them, you know every day 0:43:40.520 --> 0:43:42.000 that go a variety of ways. 0:43:43.200 --> 0:43:43.640 One of the. 0:43:43.560 --> 0:43:45.560 Reasons I was interested in what you had to say 0:43:45.640 --> 0:43:47.520 and I think that this is a worthwhile one to 0:43:47.520 --> 0:43:49.319 talk to people about. Is that I think the Young 0:43:49.360 --> 0:43:55.200 America's Americans Foundation kids who invited him wound up demoralized 0:43:55.239 --> 0:43:56.879 at the end of this. That was my take on this. 0:43:56.880 --> 0:43:59.520 This is not an event that seems to have gone 0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:00.879 well to them. So I want you to walk through 0:44:00.920 --> 0:44:03.920 kind of what happened that night, both in terms of 0:44:03.960 --> 0:44:07.040 what you saw from the folks showing up to see 0:44:07.040 --> 0:44:09.000 Walsh and what you saw kind of from the response 0:44:09.040 --> 0:44:09.359 to him. 0:44:11.600 --> 0:44:14.799 Yeah, I would say it's a fair assumption that the 0:44:14.880 --> 0:44:19.000 YAF people were demoralized after this. So the protests, it 0:44:19.040 --> 0:44:24.120 was last Wednesday, the nineteenth, and the protest was very 0:44:24.719 --> 0:44:27.920 you know, there was no leader. It was very decentralized, 0:44:27.920 --> 0:44:30.480 you know, just lots of people showing up and instantly 0:44:30.520 --> 0:44:33.680 when everybody showed up, like at four o'clock, when the 0:44:33.760 --> 0:44:37.160 documentary was showing before Matt Walsh was going to speak 0:44:37.200 --> 0:44:41.120 his you know, shitty documentary What Is a Woman showed beforehand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:44:41.360 --> 0:44:43.960 it was like a joyous occasion almost People just were 0:44:44.000 --> 0:44:47.000 trickling in on the park right across the street. From 0:44:47.040 --> 0:44:50.360 the IMU and more and more people, just hundreds of 0:44:50.400 --> 0:44:52.880 people came, you know, not just students, but like people 0:44:52.920 --> 0:44:56.920 from Iowa City and Cedar Rapids and you know, just 0:44:57.360 --> 0:44:59.680 eastern Iowa in general that were just like, we do 0:44:59.800 --> 0:45:04.920 not you know, we're feeling really bad that this absolute 0:45:04.960 --> 0:45:08.120 fucking shithead is in our state right now. You know, 0:45:08.160 --> 0:45:11.520 the air smells bad, so we got you know, yeah, 0:45:11.560 --> 0:45:15.760 So it was it was very joyous, and then people 0:45:15.760 --> 0:45:17.680 were like, Okay, the documentary is about to get out. 0:45:17.680 --> 0:45:20.080 And the way this event was set up was the 0:45:20.120 --> 0:45:24.000 documentary was being shown in a theater that's in the IMU, 0:45:24.200 --> 0:45:29.040 the Memorial Union, just a student hangout spot basically, and 0:45:29.080 --> 0:45:33.160 then all the people that were in the documentary were 0:45:33.600 --> 0:45:36.279 going to then file into the main lounge whereas where 0:45:36.280 --> 0:45:42.399 he was speaking. And so when the documentary got let out, 0:45:42.920 --> 0:45:45.279 all the activists or just the people that came to 0:45:45.320 --> 0:45:47.760 protest him, we're just like, all right, we're going inside. 0:45:48.000 --> 0:45:50.840 You know, We're not we're not gonna, you know, just 0:45:50.880 --> 0:45:53.560 stand out here. You know, We're going to make sure 0:45:53.600 --> 0:45:58.200 that they know every second that this is bullshit that 0:45:58.239 --> 0:46:00.200 you came to see this guy speak, and especially in 0:46:00.239 --> 0:46:03.360 Iowa city. This isn't going to fly, you know, without 0:46:03.800 --> 0:46:07.319 some type of resistance. So everybody that lined up for 0:46:07.400 --> 0:46:10.400 the Matt Walsh speaking event and who came out of 0:46:10.680 --> 0:46:15.839 the theater after watching his documentary had to wait in 0:46:15.920 --> 0:46:19.359 line and be screamed at by protesters for like an 0:46:19.520 --> 0:46:25.160 hour at least. And it was so funny just these people, 0:46:25.600 --> 0:46:27.680 like they started out at first, you know, for a 0:46:27.680 --> 0:46:30.360 few minutes being like haha, look at all these triggered libs. 0:46:30.920 --> 0:46:34.799 But then after like twenty minutes they were just kind 0:46:34.800 --> 0:46:36.680 of like thousand yards staring, you know. 0:46:37.239 --> 0:46:40.680 Yeah, Yeah, that's really interesting to me because obviously, like 0:46:41.320 --> 0:46:44.720 one of the particularly with the younger right right, you know, 0:46:44.960 --> 0:46:47.919 I think there is sort of a dividing line, both 0:46:47.920 --> 0:46:51.799 in my head and in physical behavior between kind of 0:46:51.880 --> 0:46:57.319 like older and maybe even less radical Republicans who are 0:46:57.360 --> 0:47:00.799 really tied to this idea of the silent and get 0:47:00.920 --> 0:47:03.319 a degree of emotional comfort from the idea that most 0:47:03.320 --> 0:47:05.080 people do think like them, they just don't want to 0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:08.120 talk about it. And then there's sort of not an 0:47:08.280 --> 0:47:11.880 entirely separate, but certainly much more common attitude among the 0:47:12.000 --> 0:47:14.799 younger right wing activists, people who were raised online in 0:47:14.800 --> 0:47:18.759 places like four Chan about the where a lot of 0:47:18.760 --> 0:47:22.200 their focus is on the joy of triggering the left, 0:47:22.239 --> 0:47:26.200 which they see as like controlling the culture to a 0:47:26.280 --> 0:47:29.239 large degree. And so it's interesting to me, you know, 0:47:29.280 --> 0:47:31.839 that's something that these people like to talk about a lot. 0:47:31.920 --> 0:47:35.440 They like to at least portray themselves as sort of 0:47:35.600 --> 0:47:40.400 above caring, but very few people are capable of like 0:47:40.520 --> 0:47:44.840 just being screamed at by a crowd of people and 0:47:45.280 --> 0:47:47.400 not feeling shitty after a while. That makes a lot 0:47:47.440 --> 0:47:47.960 of sense to me. 0:47:48.480 --> 0:47:51.160 Yeah, I mean it was definitely breaking through to a 0:47:51.200 --> 0:47:53.080 lot of them, I could tell, And I even heard 0:47:53.160 --> 0:47:58.000 some conversations amongst them, like very taken aback and like 0:47:58.120 --> 0:48:01.879 in shock, you know, like voice shaking when talking about it, 0:48:02.000 --> 0:48:05.279 just like why are they doing this? You know, I 0:48:05.280 --> 0:48:08.000 mean like putting two and two together. Like it was 0:48:08.080 --> 0:48:12.480 very fascinating to hear to eavesdrop on these conversations, and 0:48:13.520 --> 0:48:16.319 it was a lot of that, and it was also well, 0:48:16.480 --> 0:48:19.640 one thing that happened is I don't know if they 0:48:19.719 --> 0:48:23.720 oversold tickets or just didn't track like how many people 0:48:23.719 --> 0:48:26.360 were going to be there, but half of the people 0:48:26.400 --> 0:48:28.720 that showed up to see Matt Walsh, I would estimate 0:48:28.719 --> 0:48:30.640 about half half of them were not able. 0:48:30.400 --> 0:48:31.080 To go see him. 0:48:32.080 --> 0:48:35.399 They were told they were keeping track of how many 0:48:35.400 --> 0:48:38.480 people were going into the main lounge, and then just 0:48:38.760 --> 0:48:41.719 randomly they were just like, all right, that's it. You know, 0:48:42.239 --> 0:48:45.560 the cops there and the staff and the Matt Walsh's 0:48:45.600 --> 0:48:50.080 private security, which I will say there was more private security, 0:48:50.239 --> 0:48:53.279 or there was more security there in general than when 0:48:53.320 --> 0:48:56.359 Mike Pence spoke at the exact same place, at. 0:48:56.360 --> 0:48:58.920 Least obvious security with Pench. 0:48:59.080 --> 0:49:01.280 More obviously more obvious security. 0:49:01.360 --> 0:49:06.000 Yeah, and you know they had bomb snipping dogs and everything. 0:49:06.200 --> 0:49:08.960 Oh wow, interesting, yep. Do you know how full the 0:49:09.040 --> 0:49:10.000 actual theater was. 0:49:10.920 --> 0:49:13.560 The YAF claims seven hundred. 0:49:13.120 --> 0:49:17.520 People, and what's capacity for them, I. 0:49:17.440 --> 0:49:21.080 Don't exactly know, but they said that seven hundred people 0:49:21.120 --> 0:49:23.120 were able to see Matt Walsh. And then so I 0:49:23.120 --> 0:49:25.840 would say more people came to see Matt Walsh, like 0:49:25.880 --> 0:49:28.719 maybe a thousand or something. That's another number that the 0:49:28.840 --> 0:49:32.520 YAF threw out there. Yeah, but I would say there 0:49:32.680 --> 0:49:36.319 was at least an equal amount of protesters there at 0:49:36.360 --> 0:49:40.640 its peak too. And I will also say that there 0:49:40.640 --> 0:49:44.879 were people keeping track of the cars leaving when they 0:49:44.880 --> 0:49:48.840 were able to leave, and there was a considerable amount 0:49:48.880 --> 0:49:51.320 of out of state plates and out of county plates. 0:49:51.360 --> 0:49:55.200 People traveled pretty far to see Matt wallsh speak is 0:49:56.000 --> 0:49:57.880 kind of and there were people that showed up that, 0:49:58.160 --> 0:50:00.719 you know, the right wing weird was that I know 0:50:01.520 --> 0:50:04.799 that live in Des Moines, which is like two hours away, 0:50:04.840 --> 0:50:08.759 and even some in Omaha that came that I recognized personally. So, yeah, 0:50:08.760 --> 0:50:11.560 people came pretty far for this, and a bunch of 0:50:11.560 --> 0:50:13.160 those people that came pretty far were not able to 0:50:13.200 --> 0:50:16.000 see Matt Wall speak, and they were extremely pissed. And 0:50:16.040 --> 0:50:18.359 so I was watching a lot of these people yell 0:50:18.520 --> 0:50:23.799 at staff and trying to bargain with police officers like 0:50:23.920 --> 0:50:26.480 come on, we drove, like let us in and everything. 0:50:27.719 --> 0:50:31.200 The cops were just not having it, and so the 0:50:31.239 --> 0:50:34.640 mood turned pretty angry. 0:50:34.239 --> 0:50:34.880 At that point. 0:50:34.920 --> 0:50:39.120 I would say, I'm interested in sort of are you 0:50:39.160 --> 0:50:42.280 aware kind of like who was organizing the counter response 0:50:42.280 --> 0:50:45.560 and how that was. People were like informed that there 0:50:45.640 --> 0:50:47.919 was going to be something, because you know, it's it's 0:50:47.920 --> 0:50:50.959 not usually a simple matter to get that folks. Many 0:50:50.960 --> 0:50:54.040 folks to show up around one thousand for a counter protest. 0:50:54.320 --> 0:50:59.360 Yeah, I think mainly there were multiple student orgs. I 0:50:59.400 --> 0:51:01.759 think I named them a little bit earlier that you know, 0:51:01.920 --> 0:51:05.920 there was the Graduates Union, a Coggs Union, a graduate 0:51:05.960 --> 0:51:10.000 students union. They put out a statement inviting you know, 0:51:10.080 --> 0:51:12.200 not only their members to come, but everybody to come. 0:51:12.440 --> 0:51:14.280 They do a lot of good work around the university. 0:51:15.400 --> 0:51:20.319 The why dssay the Young Democratic Socialists of America. They 0:51:20.320 --> 0:51:23.760 have a chapter here and they were organizing. They did 0:51:24.080 --> 0:51:28.160 heavy flyering campaigns around town, not just campus, but around 0:51:28.200 --> 0:51:31.520 Iowa City itself. And on top of that, I would 0:51:31.520 --> 0:51:36.719 say just sharing liars and word of mouth like on 0:51:36.760 --> 0:51:41.919 the internet too. People know that Matt Walsh is kind 0:51:41.960 --> 0:51:46.239 of public enemy number one when it comes to the 0:51:46.360 --> 0:51:49.600 LGBTQ community, specifically the trans communities. So I think a 0:51:49.600 --> 0:51:52.880 lot of people were just extremely pissed that he was 0:51:52.960 --> 0:51:53.799 here in this town. 0:51:53.840 --> 0:51:54.600 In Iowa City. 0:51:55.040 --> 0:51:59.920 People call Iowa City a gayer town than San Francisco. 0:52:00.160 --> 0:52:01.440 Have referred to Iowa City as that. 0:52:01.880 --> 0:52:04.480 I don't know, if high bar it is San Francisco 0:52:04.600 --> 0:52:05.600 is a very gay town. 0:52:06.400 --> 0:52:08.839 Yeah, well if you Iowa City people call it little 0:52:08.880 --> 0:52:10.480 San Francisco for that reason. 0:52:10.480 --> 0:52:12.879 That's sweet. I don't think I've actually been to Iowa City. 0:52:13.280 --> 0:52:17.320 Yeah, I mean it is definitely the place in Iowa 0:52:17.760 --> 0:52:22.319 where it is, you know, eastern Iowa. It's considered the 0:52:22.360 --> 0:52:25.799 lib part of Iowa, but specifically Iowa City. People call 0:52:25.840 --> 0:52:30.120 it the People's Republic of Iowa City because like the 0:52:30.200 --> 0:52:33.000 right wingers think it's so left wing here, but in 0:52:33.040 --> 0:52:35.719 reality it's our city council is run by like Pete 0:52:35.719 --> 0:52:39.360 Boota Judge supporters, but you know, to them, that's communism. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:52:39.360 --> 0:52:43.480 So I think just the spirit of Iowa City in general, 0:52:43.520 --> 0:52:46.239 like everybody was just pissed that this guy was coming 0:52:46.280 --> 0:52:48.400 to town, and everybody found out one way or another, 0:52:49.040 --> 0:52:52.560 and yeah, people showed up and showed out for sure. 0:52:53.040 --> 0:52:56.520 When it comes to like, uh kind of confrontations and stuff, 0:52:56.560 --> 0:52:59.480 how would you describe sort of the uh, the general 0:53:00.719 --> 0:53:03.480 mood towards that sort of behavior outside Like, was this 0:53:03.520 --> 0:53:07.719 the kind of thing where there was there uh action 0:53:07.880 --> 0:53:09.880 sort of taken beyond like the yelling, or was it 0:53:09.960 --> 0:53:14.360 kind of like, uh, mostly focused on demoralization and providing 0:53:14.440 --> 0:53:18.520 kind of a visual show of how much resistance there 0:53:18.560 --> 0:53:21.440 is to Walsh in his ideas well. 0:53:22.080 --> 0:53:25.000 After a lot of them were denied entry, I think 0:53:25.040 --> 0:53:27.680 a lot of them were extremely pissed off. And at 0:53:27.719 --> 0:53:31.120 that point I saw a bunch of old like, not 0:53:31.200 --> 0:53:34.480 a bunch, I would say, a handful of almost scuffles 0:53:34.520 --> 0:53:39.880 breaking out. The couple I saw were definitely the fault 0:53:40.280 --> 0:53:44.880 and instigated by Matt Walsh attendees, because you know, they 0:53:44.880 --> 0:53:47.000 probably drove really far and weren't able to get in. 0:53:47.040 --> 0:53:50.920 And now you've got all these people with trans flags 0:53:50.960 --> 0:53:52.840 screaming at you and calling you a Nazi and a 0:53:52.880 --> 0:53:56.440 fascist and that you're a piece of shit, you know. 0:53:56.520 --> 0:53:56.839 And so. 0:53:58.360 --> 0:54:00.120 But there was a lot of people and a lot 0:53:59.960 --> 0:54:04.040 of cops that were really, really really wanting to make 0:54:04.080 --> 0:54:07.840 sure that that didn't happen. So after these people weren't 0:54:08.320 --> 0:54:11.880 allowed in, they were being escorted towards the back entrance 0:54:11.920 --> 0:54:14.399 where they came in. And so they all went back 0:54:14.440 --> 0:54:18.839 towards the back entrance, and that is when somebody or 0:54:18.880 --> 0:54:21.719 some people I didn't see it, I only heard it 0:54:22.280 --> 0:54:25.680 dumped thousands and thousands of marbles by that exit. 0:54:26.000 --> 0:54:28.000 Yeah, that was my favorite thing that I saw on 0:54:28.040 --> 0:54:28.439 your thread. 0:54:28.560 --> 0:54:31.920 Yeah, So then the cops were like, well, shit, sorry, guys, 0:54:31.960 --> 0:54:34.520 you can't come this way, So you have to go 0:54:34.680 --> 0:54:37.920 back through the gauntlet of screaming protesters to get out. 0:54:38.120 --> 0:54:38.560 I love that. 0:54:38.760 --> 0:54:42.399 Yeah, area denial, taking a ya area denial and also 0:54:42.440 --> 0:54:45.440 kind of rerouting them from an area that's going to 0:54:45.480 --> 0:54:47.719 force them to confront the least pleasant aspect of it. 0:54:47.800 --> 0:54:49.400 Yeah, that's very smart exactly. 0:54:49.560 --> 0:54:53.440 And then even after that, lots of people were going 0:54:54.040 --> 0:54:56.480 to like the way the imus set up. There's a 0:54:56.520 --> 0:55:00.439 park by it, and there's also a parking garage right 0:55:00.480 --> 0:55:03.600 across the street from it, and there's a one way 0:55:04.000 --> 0:55:06.239 out of the parking garage, so there's one way out 0:55:06.320 --> 0:55:09.719 if you parked in the parking garage. And towards the 0:55:09.840 --> 0:55:12.920 end of his talk and when everybody was filing out 0:55:13.360 --> 0:55:17.759 of the Matt Walsh event, protesters had completely taken over 0:55:17.800 --> 0:55:19.799 that street. So there was no way any of these 0:55:19.800 --> 0:55:23.000 people were getting out. They just kind of like came 0:55:23.040 --> 0:55:27.680 out in a giant like horde of people. And then 0:55:27.719 --> 0:55:30.280 they slowly started realizing, you know, since all these people 0:55:30.520 --> 0:55:34.560 were blocking the street and there is a pet band 0:55:34.600 --> 0:55:37.120 in the middle of the street playing you know, yea, 0:55:37.560 --> 0:55:39.600 they were starting to understand that, oh shit, we're not 0:55:39.600 --> 0:55:40.960 going to be able to leave. So a lot of 0:55:40.960 --> 0:55:43.919 them were really mad about that, and they started going 0:55:44.000 --> 0:55:46.960 up to police officers and staff saying like, you got 0:55:46.960 --> 0:55:48.040 to get these people out of here. 0:55:48.080 --> 0:55:49.239 I'm trying to leave, you. 0:55:49.200 --> 0:55:51.719 Know, and the cops there was only like outside, I 0:55:51.760 --> 0:55:54.799 would say, there was only like seven police officers and 0:55:54.920 --> 0:55:57.040 there is no way. Like the cops tried to get 0:55:57.040 --> 0:55:59.960 people to move out of the street. They even put 0:55:59.960 --> 0:56:01.919 their hands on some people to try to move them, 0:56:01.920 --> 0:56:05.000 but then forty more people would just get in the street, 0:56:05.000 --> 0:56:06.720 and so they realized that that wasn't going to happen. 0:56:07.200 --> 0:56:12.240 So after going through a gauntlet of protesters and stepping 0:56:12.239 --> 0:56:15.560 over marbles, you know, these people are then also not 0:56:15.719 --> 0:56:18.640 able to leave the event when they want to, and 0:56:18.680 --> 0:56:21.640 I would say the road was blocked probably for like 0:56:21.680 --> 0:56:26.880 an hour hour fifteen minutes until the police were finally 0:56:26.920 --> 0:56:30.160 able to kind of like wedge a way out for 0:56:30.239 --> 0:56:34.200 these people. And that's when one confrontation that I know 0:56:34.360 --> 0:56:38.280 happened where one of the Matt Walsh attendees started shining 0:56:38.280 --> 0:56:41.759 a strobe light in people's faces and someone put a 0:56:41.800 --> 0:56:44.839 sign in front of it to stop them from doing that, 0:56:44.920 --> 0:56:47.520 and then that person grabbed the other person and there 0:56:47.560 --> 0:56:49.840 was kind of a fight that happened, But that was 0:56:49.880 --> 0:56:54.040 the only physical confrontation that I saw the entire night, 0:56:54.320 --> 0:56:57.440 besides cops putting their hands on protesters trying to get 0:56:57.440 --> 0:56:58.840 them out of the street at one point. 0:56:59.840 --> 0:57:01.239 So what would you say, we're kind of the main 0:57:01.320 --> 0:57:03.520 takeaways from this for people. You know, this is going 0:57:03.560 --> 0:57:05.440 to continue to be a thing if folks are looking 0:57:05.480 --> 0:57:09.319 at participating in or organizing responses to events like this 0:57:09.400 --> 0:57:11.960 in the future. What were your kind of big takeaways. 0:57:13.480 --> 0:57:18.200 My takeaways is that marbles obviously great idea. Marbles, Yes, 0:57:18.360 --> 0:57:21.920 marbles are a great idea, you know, But also what 0:57:21.960 --> 0:57:24.160 I think is kind of worth taking from that is 0:57:24.200 --> 0:57:26.520 that like it's not enough. We often see this when 0:57:26.560 --> 0:57:29.640 like different tactics go viral. Don't like do the cargo 0:57:29.680 --> 0:57:31.600 cult version of it? Right, The reason why the marbles 0:57:31.640 --> 0:57:35.000 were effective wasn't just that like it made an exit inaccessible. 0:57:35.040 --> 0:57:37.880 It's that because it made it was in a situation 0:57:37.960 --> 0:57:41.680 where it rerouted people back through that screaming gauntlet of 0:57:41.720 --> 0:57:45.720 counter protesters, which was demoralizing. So strategy is also like 0:57:45.760 --> 0:57:48.360 worth taking into account when you're adopting new tactics. 0:57:48.960 --> 0:57:52.000 Yeah, certainly, And from how it seemed to me is 0:57:52.040 --> 0:57:54.880 that that was intentional, that it was meant to block 0:57:55.800 --> 0:57:57.600 that exit, so they had to go back through the 0:57:57.600 --> 0:57:59.160 screaming people to get out. 0:57:59.560 --> 0:58:01.320 Yeah, yeah, definitely. 0:58:01.440 --> 0:58:04.280 You know, marvels are funny, but it was deployed in 0:58:04.320 --> 0:58:09.400 such a way where it was even more funny, yeah. 0:58:08.160 --> 0:58:08.840 And effective. 0:58:09.440 --> 0:58:13.000 A takeaway that I had was that, you know, there's 0:58:13.040 --> 0:58:14.720 always going to be risk with this type of thing, 0:58:14.840 --> 0:58:18.040 risk of you know, risk of anything really, you know, 0:58:18.360 --> 0:58:23.040 physical harm, emotional harm, people getting in trouble at school 0:58:23.080 --> 0:58:27.520 or something. But I think these kids and a lot 0:58:27.600 --> 0:58:31.920 of these attendees went there expecting to own the libs 0:58:31.960 --> 0:58:36.480 and then walked away really demoralized, you know, And so 0:58:36.720 --> 0:58:39.840 I think it was definitely worth it to put our 0:58:39.880 --> 0:58:43.000 bodies on the line and everything and put ourselves on 0:58:43.040 --> 0:58:47.040 the line to just send that message and also make 0:58:47.080 --> 0:58:48.800 it clear that other people can do this too. And 0:58:48.880 --> 0:58:51.680 Matt Walls speaks, you know, just make it miserable. You know, 0:58:51.920 --> 0:58:54.160 you don't even necessarily have to prevent him from speaking, 0:58:54.240 --> 0:58:57.480 even though that would be pretty cool. But even though 0:58:57.520 --> 0:59:01.280 he did speak, like, no one's talking about that, and 0:59:01.320 --> 0:59:01.880 no one's. 0:59:01.680 --> 0:59:02.720 Talking about what he said. 0:59:03.640 --> 0:59:06.640 People are talking about how all the Matt Walsh people 0:59:06.680 --> 0:59:09.600 got stranded and how there were marbles that blocked their exit. 0:59:09.800 --> 0:59:12.520 And how the pet band came and played to a 0:59:12.600 --> 0:59:18.560 cadence of Buck Matt Walsh you know, yeah, yeah. 0:59:17.280 --> 0:59:18.880 All right, was there anything else you want to talk 0:59:18.880 --> 0:59:20.320 about before we roll out? 0:59:20.920 --> 0:59:24.320 I'd say that about does it for me, unless you 0:59:24.320 --> 0:59:26.600 have any more questions about specifics of the night. 0:59:26.880 --> 0:59:28.680 No, thank you for coming on, Oliver. Is there any 0:59:28.680 --> 0:59:31.000 sort of plugs you've got for anything you want to 0:59:31.040 --> 0:59:33.320 direct listeners towards before we end? 0:59:33.880 --> 0:59:37.200 Yeah, there's an organization around here called Iowa Trans Mutual 0:59:37.240 --> 0:59:39.680 Aid that does a lot of really really really good 0:59:39.680 --> 0:59:42.400 work for people in the state of Iowa that currently 0:59:43.520 --> 0:59:45.800 is experiencing, like so much of the country, really really 0:59:45.840 --> 0:59:50.200 really bad anti trans legislations. So if you find it 0:59:50.200 --> 0:59:51.800 in your heart or have the means to donate to 0:59:51.800 --> 0:59:55.120 such an Iowa Trans Mutual Aid, I really I really 0:59:55.160 --> 0:59:56.200 can't recommend it enough. 0:59:56.800 --> 0:59:57.200 Awesome. 0:59:57.480 --> 0:59:59.480 Well, thank you so much, Oliver, and a big thank 0:59:59.520 --> 1:00:02.040 you to everybody who showed up that night in Iowa City. 1:00:02.800 --> 1:00:06.040 That is it for us today. Everybody, have a great 1:00:06.560 --> 1:00:07.320 rest of your day. 1:00:07.480 --> 1:00:08.520 All right, thank you so much. 1:00:24.160 --> 1:00:27.000 Welcome to Take It Happened here a podcast about the transgenocide, 1:00:27.040 --> 1:00:30.280 because it keeps happening and so we keep having a 1:00:30.360 --> 1:00:34.200 new episodes about it because it just gets worse. Yeah, 1:00:34.440 --> 1:00:36.920 I'm Mia Wong with me as James. 1:00:36.840 --> 1:00:40.400 I'm yeah, I'm excited to hear more about what people 1:00:40.400 --> 1:00:43.960 are doing to trans people in different partsitive country. 1:00:44.280 --> 1:00:45.800 Yeah, the answer is not good. 1:00:46.480 --> 1:00:48.720 So okay, at about. 1:00:48.400 --> 1:00:50.760 Five am this morning, I was watching a video from 1:00:50.840 --> 1:00:53.680 last year, and you know, I had this line about 1:00:53.680 --> 1:00:55.840 how like there's been one hundred anti trans bills in 1:00:55.880 --> 1:01:00.320 twenty twenty two alone, and like, oh oh boy, that 1:01:00.960 --> 1:01:05.520 is a quaint figure from a more civilized age. We 1:01:06.040 --> 1:01:08.280 are three months into twenty twenty and there's been five 1:01:08.400 --> 1:01:11.080 hundred anti trans bills across the country. 1:01:11.200 --> 1:01:14.439 That was a Freudian slip. We have three years into 1:01:14.480 --> 1:01:16.040 twenty twenty, my friend. 1:01:16.080 --> 1:01:22.280 Oh god, yeah, twenty three that one, which I guess 1:01:22.760 --> 1:01:24.960 it won't work out like this, But technically, speaking of 1:01:25.040 --> 1:01:28.880 this pace continues, we're on track for what. Yeah, we're 1:01:28.920 --> 1:01:31.360 on track for I think two thousand this year, which 1:01:31.360 --> 1:01:32.480 would be great. 1:01:33.160 --> 1:01:36.960 Heyce, Yeah, it's good. We'll be rebing Mansona by November. 1:01:37.560 --> 1:01:39.840 Now. Most of these bills, have we've talked about before, 1:01:39.840 --> 1:01:41.920 are going to fail, but a lot of them haven't. 1:01:42.800 --> 1:01:45.280 And the other sort of aspect of this. I think 1:01:45.320 --> 1:01:48.040 it's been less reported on, but is also extremely important. 1:01:48.120 --> 1:01:51.160 Is that. Okay, so if you want to do anti 1:01:51.160 --> 1:01:54.480 trans bullshit, you have like three options. Basically, you have 1:01:54.600 --> 1:01:57.000 you try to get a bill through the legislature, You 1:01:57.160 --> 1:02:01.680 have the governor doing a and date or something, and 1:02:01.720 --> 1:02:04.640 then you have the attorney general doing some bullshit. And 1:02:05.840 --> 1:02:09.160 our first story from the front lines of the worst 1:02:09.200 --> 1:02:13.160 shit that's happening is from Missouri, where Missouri's Attorney General 1:02:13.200 --> 1:02:18.080 Andrew Bailey has issued a quote emergency rule that claims 1:02:18.080 --> 1:02:21.520 that because gender affirming care is quote experimental, it's already 1:02:21.560 --> 1:02:29.440 banned by state law, which is nonsense, but it gets worse. 1:02:29.920 --> 1:02:31.800 I don't know if it's worth like addressing this shit 1:02:31.880 --> 1:02:33.920 head on because it's such so clearly bullshit. But like, 1:02:33.960 --> 1:02:36.720 we have more than a century of people seeving gender 1:02:36.840 --> 1:02:41.480 firming care and auditioning. It's it's like people, people, television 1:02:41.560 --> 1:02:45.200 is more experimental than gender affirming care. Yeah, like this stuff, 1:02:45.440 --> 1:02:49.960 like aeroplanes are more experiment This stuff predates the Nazis, 1:02:50.240 --> 1:02:55.160 Like it's like it's old. Yeah, it definitely predates passenger flight. 1:02:55.760 --> 1:02:58.120 Yeah. Like so okay, I mean that there's like a 1:02:58.160 --> 1:03:01.720 standard turf argument though, is that it's like, oh, it's experimental. 1:03:01.760 --> 1:03:04.120 It's like, now it's not okay, so these rules are 1:03:05.080 --> 1:03:08.040 oh boy, okay, here's from so I think it was 1:03:08.080 --> 1:03:11.480 Saint Louis. Yeah, the city government of stint Lewis put 1:03:11.480 --> 1:03:13.320 out a thing about it that was basically like, this 1:03:13.440 --> 1:03:18.000 is bullshit. They said, quote the Interney General's Emergency Regulations 1:03:18.040 --> 1:03:22.840 institute extreme restrictions that require one medically documented gender just 1:03:22.880 --> 1:03:26.680 for you for three years, to at least fifteen consecutive 1:03:26.760 --> 1:03:30.439 therapy sessions over eighteen months, and three that all mental 1:03:30.520 --> 1:03:34.000 health conditions are treated and resolved prior to gaining access 1:03:34.000 --> 1:03:38.840 to gender affirming care. There's also this section that is 1:03:40.240 --> 1:03:42.720 I'm just gonna read it. I don't have any words, 1:03:42.760 --> 1:03:45.320 I don't have any analysis for this, so it's saying 1:03:45.360 --> 1:03:48.600 like you can't have care. That quote fails with respect 1:03:48.640 --> 1:03:50.760 to a patient who is a minor to ensure that 1:03:50.800 --> 1:03:54.760 the patient has received a comprehensive screening at least annually 1:03:54.800 --> 1:03:59.160 for social media addiction or compulsion, and has not for 1:03:59.200 --> 1:04:01.240 at least six months prior to the beginning of any 1:04:01.280 --> 1:04:10.280 intervention suffered from social media addiction or compulsion. So wow. Yeah. Now, 1:04:10.320 --> 1:04:12.960 so the good news is that this rule is supposed 1:04:12.960 --> 1:04:15.320 to go into effects, like before this episode is recorded, 1:04:16.200 --> 1:04:18.320 it was there instantly. There are a bunch of lawsuits. 1:04:18.400 --> 1:04:23.520 It's been blocked by a judge until May fifteenth, so 1:04:23.720 --> 1:04:26.520 hopefully the judge will be like, this is obviously illegal, 1:04:26.960 --> 1:04:28.440 not holding out hope for that. 1:04:28.480 --> 1:04:29.000 This is. 1:04:31.040 --> 1:04:33.440 Probably the worst law in the books anywhere in the 1:04:33.480 --> 1:04:36.760 country right now. Maybe we'll also I'll show you the 1:04:36.760 --> 1:04:40.480 other really bad one and what we'll see. But okay, 1:04:40.520 --> 1:04:43.200 so the notable thing about this law is that this 1:04:43.280 --> 1:04:46.600 is not just a band from minors. This is for everyone. 1:04:48.080 --> 1:04:50.240 And you know, there's lots of atrocious stuff in here, right, 1:04:50.280 --> 1:04:52.280 Like if you have autism, for example, and there's a 1:04:52.280 --> 1:04:54.320 bitfy thing about screening for autism. If you have autism, 1:04:54.360 --> 1:04:59.640 you cannot transition Jesus, and you know, and then you 1:04:59.640 --> 1:05:01.439 know there are right, even if you're like a ninety 1:05:01.520 --> 1:05:04.480 nine year old on your fucking deathbed, you can't transition 1:05:05.120 --> 1:05:07.680 unless you feel fill all of these bullshit requirements. There's 1:05:07.720 --> 1:05:10.960 this like there's a social media compulsion thing, which is 1:05:10.960 --> 1:05:13.520 this sort of bizarre like social contagient bullshit that these 1:05:13.520 --> 1:05:14.560 people have been spreading for a. 1:05:14.560 --> 1:05:17.200 Long time, especially given like where the fuck do we 1:05:17.240 --> 1:05:20.400 think their trans panic comes from? It's because they logged 1:05:20.400 --> 1:05:23.280 onto Facebook and you're racist. Uncle Joey had posted to 1:05:23.520 --> 1:05:26.600 think about like how Twitter is transing his niece's gender. 1:05:27.160 --> 1:05:29.800 Yeah, and you know, and like all of this stuff 1:05:29.880 --> 1:05:34.040 is very like we're getting into we're getting into the 1:05:34.080 --> 1:05:36.160 part of this where it's just sort of like they're 1:05:36.200 --> 1:05:42.600 like copying and pasting turf rants into like laws. The 1:05:42.640 --> 1:05:45.960 mental healthcare thing is like just awful. 1:05:46.440 --> 1:05:46.640 You know. 1:05:46.640 --> 1:05:48.200 For example, if you have depression, one of the reasons 1:05:48.240 --> 1:05:50.560 you might have depression if your trans is because you 1:05:50.560 --> 1:05:52.920 have dysphoria. So you're caught in this loop. If you 1:05:52.920 --> 1:05:54.800 try to get care for the depression, you can't get 1:05:55.320 --> 1:05:57.919 like treatment for the dysphoria. What if you get treating 1:05:57.920 --> 1:06:00.120 for the dysphoia, you can't get it for the depressions, right. 1:06:00.720 --> 1:06:05.120 Yeah, you're totally alienated from getting care. And like I'm 1:06:05.160 --> 1:06:08.840 sure living in a fucking state which is trying with 1:06:08.920 --> 1:06:12.600 surgical precision to force you to pick which way you 1:06:12.640 --> 1:06:17.000 want to be suffering. It's not like great for your 1:06:17.000 --> 1:06:19.840 mental health to be like being a trans person in 1:06:19.880 --> 1:06:21.880 Missouri would be pretty hard, given that the state is 1:06:21.960 --> 1:06:25.040 taking or its powers to stop you getting anything of care. 1:06:25.120 --> 1:06:27.200 And you know, I mean everything that's about this is 1:06:27.240 --> 1:06:32.520 like the therapy requirement, the fifteen therapy things over eighteen 1:06:32.560 --> 1:06:35.680 months is just effectively a ban because you know, do 1:06:35.760 --> 1:06:37.360 you know how fucking hard it is to get an 1:06:37.360 --> 1:06:40.360 appointment with a gender therapist, Like it is so like 1:06:40.400 --> 1:06:44.240 there are we are talking about something where there are 1:06:44.360 --> 1:06:49.480 optimistically dozens of these people for an entire state. It 1:06:49.600 --> 1:06:54.480 is fucked. It is so bad even in states where 1:06:54.520 --> 1:06:57.400 it's legal. Right this this is sort of the grim 1:06:57.520 --> 1:06:59.480 joke of like the anti trans canard that like it's 1:06:59.480 --> 1:07:01.280 too easy for kids to get gender firming care and 1:07:01.320 --> 1:07:03.840 they're giving out hormones like candy. It's like, no, no, 1:07:03.920 --> 1:07:06.320 it's really even in states where it's legal to get 1:07:06.320 --> 1:07:08.680 gender firming care, it's hard as fuck, takes forever and 1:07:08.800 --> 1:07:12.840 is expensive, and you know, given how through few therapists 1:07:12.880 --> 1:07:14.960 there are and how hard it is to clear these requirements, 1:07:14.960 --> 1:07:17.439 the Missouri rule is just effectively a ban on gender 1:07:17.480 --> 1:07:21.400 ferman care for everyone. Now it's been stayed for now, 1:07:21.520 --> 1:07:24.800 but this is really bad. People are fleeing the state, 1:07:27.360 --> 1:07:31.840 we're gonna talk more about trans refugees yeah later, But 1:07:33.440 --> 1:07:35.560 you know, basically every state that has passed one of 1:07:35.600 --> 1:07:38.440 these laws has refugees already. I know, I personally know 1:07:38.520 --> 1:07:44.120 multiple people who fled multiple states. Yeah, it's really fucking bad. 1:07:45.720 --> 1:07:51.560 It's also you know, I mean, like it is genuinely 1:07:51.600 --> 1:07:53.560 important to make sure that people get supported and make 1:07:53.560 --> 1:07:55.920 sure people have a way out. It's also not a 1:07:55.920 --> 1:07:58.360 solution because there's just going to be new trans kids 1:07:58.360 --> 1:07:59.760 born into these states. 1:08:00.360 --> 1:08:03.360 So yeah, yeah, we can't fix it by the existing 1:08:03.560 --> 1:08:07.880 trans people leaving, and like obviously those people have their 1:08:07.880 --> 1:08:09.640 friends in their family and their community there. Like we 1:08:09.640 --> 1:08:11.720 didn't fix it by them getting someone completely different. 1:08:12.360 --> 1:08:14.000 Yeah, so now we're gonna move to the next state 1:08:14.000 --> 1:08:18.519 where shit's happening that this one, I don't know. The 1:08:18.800 --> 1:08:25.439 stuff that's happening in Kansas is also like, okay, relative 1:08:25.479 --> 1:08:27.320 to the amount of media attention it's gotten, this is 1:08:27.320 --> 1:08:33.200 the worst thing that's happening in absolute terms, it's unbelievably bad. Okay. 1:08:33.240 --> 1:08:35.120 So there's a bill in Kansas that people are calling 1:08:35.160 --> 1:08:38.200 a bathroom bill, and they're calling it that because bathroom 1:08:38.240 --> 1:08:39.880 bill is the terminology that they have This is not 1:08:39.920 --> 1:08:43.240 a bathroom bill. We need to be very clear about this. 1:08:43.240 --> 1:08:47.360 This is way, way, way, way fucking worse than a 1:08:47.360 --> 1:08:51.880 bathroom bill. So this is a bill that what it 1:08:51.920 --> 1:08:54.839 does is in the eyes of the state, it legally 1:08:54.880 --> 1:08:59.000 assigns you a gender by defining male and female in 1:08:59.120 --> 1:09:01.559 all states, in all state laws as and I'm going 1:09:01.600 --> 1:09:04.760 to let the legislature take it from here. Women are 1:09:04.760 --> 1:09:09.280 those who quote biologically whose biological reproductive system is developed 1:09:09.280 --> 1:09:14.640 to produce OVA, and men are those quote whose biological 1:09:14.680 --> 1:09:18.120 reproductive system is developed to fertilize the OVA of a female. 1:09:19.720 --> 1:09:22.559 Which hey yeah, hey Radfams, I hope you're fucking happy. 1:09:22.560 --> 1:09:24.960 Now you've gotten the state to legally define your gender 1:09:25.000 --> 1:09:27.600 as based on your reproductive capacity. 1:09:28.120 --> 1:09:32.160 Yeah, we've great job. Feed run of the fucking what's 1:09:32.160 --> 1:09:33.599 the thing where they will wear the bonnets? 1:09:34.400 --> 1:09:35.280 Yeah? 1:09:35.400 --> 1:09:36.040 Yeah? 1:09:36.080 --> 1:09:39.320 And here here's it just intersects people kind of exist. 1:09:39.680 --> 1:09:43.640 You're fucking it's worse, Okay, So again here here's kas NT, 1:09:43.800 --> 1:09:47.600 which is a news outlet in Kansas. In addition to restrooms, 1:09:47.680 --> 1:09:51.800 the legislation would define words like women, man, mother, and 1:09:51.880 --> 1:09:55.920 father are in areas like athletics, prisons, or other detention facilities, 1:09:56.439 --> 1:10:01.639 domestic violent centers, rape crisis centers, locker rooms, and quotes 1:10:01.960 --> 1:10:05.439 other areas where biology, safety or privacy are implicated that 1:10:05.479 --> 1:10:07.360 could result in separate accommodations. 1:10:08.720 --> 1:10:09.799 Jesus Christ. 1:10:10.280 --> 1:10:13.040 Yeah, so supposedly this is going to be on a 1:10:13.080 --> 1:10:16.200 case by case basis, but you know, like this is 1:10:16.240 --> 1:10:18.759 going to lead to trans women being put in Ben's 1:10:18.800 --> 1:10:21.320 prisons where they will be raped and almost certain like 1:10:21.640 --> 1:10:24.479 almost certainly will be raped, quite possibly will be killed 1:10:25.040 --> 1:10:28.439 because that happens all the time. You know, this is 1:10:28.479 --> 1:10:32.040 i mean, like kicking trans women out of domestic violence 1:10:32.080 --> 1:10:35.720 centers and rape crisis centers when you know, and this 1:10:35.760 --> 1:10:38.400 is going to happen, and you know, similar like bullshits 1:10:38.400 --> 1:10:41.320 gonn happen to trans men and also to non binary 1:10:41.360 --> 1:10:44.640 people who all of whom are abused and assaulted at 1:10:44.720 --> 1:10:49.639 rates that are fucking indescribable. I mean, there is also 1:10:49.680 --> 1:10:51.720 the bathroom bill shit, and like the worst version of 1:10:51.720 --> 1:10:55.479 bathroom billshit we've ever seen. And you know, but also 1:10:55.520 --> 1:10:58.120 so this is not the only one of these bills. 1:10:57.920 --> 1:11:00.600 That's what we'll talk about. The other one in Montana 1:11:01.160 --> 1:11:04.680 and a little bit. But because the Kansas Republicans are 1:11:04.720 --> 1:11:07.479 somehow even more cretnius than their colleagues in Montana. They 1:11:07.479 --> 1:11:10.320 have written the bill in such a way that, in 1:11:10.360 --> 1:11:13.760 the words of Pink News, quote definitions outlined in the 1:11:13.760 --> 1:11:16.240 bill also state that a female the female is a 1:11:16.240 --> 1:11:20.040 person who produces over in other words, eggs. Meeting sis, 1:11:20.040 --> 1:11:22.839 Women who are infertile and are unable to produce eggs 1:11:22.880 --> 1:11:26.200 could be barred from spaces under the legislation's legal terms. 1:11:27.200 --> 1:11:34.160 Likewise, sis, man, I guess yeah, it's it's yeah, like 1:11:34.520 --> 1:11:38.320 or like you have like fucking had an accident or 1:11:38.760 --> 1:11:42.799 you know, like yeah, you know, and and it's bullshit, 1:11:42.920 --> 1:11:46.519 like it pointing out the logical errors. It doesn't really 1:11:46.560 --> 1:11:49.080 work because that's not really the point, is it. Like, 1:11:49.080 --> 1:11:51.759 like that point is not to be like logically found, 1:11:51.800 --> 1:11:52.880 it's to be cruel. 1:11:53.439 --> 1:11:55.840 Yeah. But but but I think there is something very 1:11:55.840 --> 1:11:58.720 important about this, which is that this this is a 1:11:58.840 --> 1:12:02.200 very very firm example of how the struggle for trans 1:12:02.280 --> 1:12:05.439 rights and sort of you know, like trans bodily autonomy 1:12:05.479 --> 1:12:08.080 is intimately connected with the struggle with abortion rights. Because 1:12:08.080 --> 1:12:11.480 if you look at what's happened here right, Republican lawmakers 1:12:11.479 --> 1:12:14.400 are literally defining women by their by their capacity to 1:12:14.439 --> 1:12:19.000 produce children for them. Yeah, so you know this is 1:12:19.040 --> 1:12:20.960 this is not like the these are these are two 1:12:21.040 --> 1:12:25.680 very very interconnected struggles and the same people have the 1:12:25.760 --> 1:12:30.760 same absolutely dog shit like horrific patriarchal politics in both 1:12:30.800 --> 1:12:34.880 of them. So okay, so we're we're gonna we're gonna 1:12:34.960 --> 1:12:37.200 leave camp in Nebrette. Okay, so we've we've had two 1:12:37.200 --> 1:12:38.880 really grim stories in a row. We're gonna have one 1:12:38.920 --> 1:12:43.439 that saw less grim, which is Nebraska. So okay, there 1:12:43.479 --> 1:12:46.160 has been a bill to ban genuaryfirmin caare for minors, 1:12:46.160 --> 1:12:49.559 but it is being staved off, basically single handedly by 1:12:49.680 --> 1:12:53.120 the genuinely heroic efforts of state Senators Megan Hunt and 1:12:53.200 --> 1:12:57.559 Michelle Kavanaugh, who have been philibustering literally every bill that 1:12:57.640 --> 1:13:00.719 goes through the State Senate the stopman from happening, which 1:13:00.760 --> 1:13:04.320 fucking rips. Yeah, and like you know, because basically the 1:13:04.320 --> 1:13:05.600 things like we will, we will, we will fill a 1:13:05.600 --> 1:13:08.000 buster literally every single bill until they stop trying to 1:13:08.000 --> 1:13:09.920 patch this band through. And you know this is the thing. Okay, 1:13:09.920 --> 1:13:12.000 So like there was there was a thing that happened 1:13:12.000 --> 1:13:15.640 in the early twenty tens where in the US, like 1:13:15.680 --> 1:13:17.800 they're the big US Senate, Right, they change the rules 1:13:17.840 --> 1:13:19.800 about philibustering so that you don't actually have to stand 1:13:19.800 --> 1:13:23.920 there and talk for eight hours because they're fucking cowards 1:13:23.920 --> 1:13:27.800 and almays pieces of shit. Uh in that is not 1:13:28.040 --> 1:13:30.040 true in Nebraska. If you want to fill a buster 1:13:30.120 --> 1:13:32.240 a bill, you have to fucking stand up there and 1:13:32.280 --> 1:13:33.960 talk for eight hours. And they have been doing this 1:13:34.000 --> 1:13:38.960 for months. Yeah, and it's it's it's it's holding that 1:13:39.080 --> 1:13:41.760 you know. Basically, So the way philibuster works where it 1:13:41.880 --> 1:13:44.439 is you can't kind of like in the Senate, and 1:13:44.479 --> 1:13:46.719 then also in the state Senate, you can't stop someone 1:13:46.760 --> 1:13:50.040 from talking unless they like dream debate. You can't stop 1:13:50.080 --> 1:13:52.120 someone talking unless you get a two thirds vote of 1:13:52.160 --> 1:13:55.160 the body for emotion to cloture. So they've just been 1:13:55.160 --> 1:13:56.800 forcing you to do it for every single bill, and 1:13:56.800 --> 1:13:58.040 they don't have the votes in some of the bills. 1:13:58.160 --> 1:14:00.960 So yeah, you know, and the reason I think this 1:14:01.040 --> 1:14:04.160 is this is happening, you know, the reason that they've 1:14:04.160 --> 1:14:09.040 been doing this and not sort of just like doing 1:14:09.080 --> 1:14:11.280 bullshit like most of the Democrats. Well, partially it's because 1:14:11.280 --> 1:14:13.600 there's a Senate and partially because Senator Hunt has a 1:14:13.600 --> 1:14:17.080 twelve year old trans son yeah, which yeah, has has 1:14:17.120 --> 1:14:19.439 given her, you know, a sort of urgency that's absent 1:14:19.479 --> 1:14:20.799 from Democrats and other states. 1:14:21.680 --> 1:14:23.479 Yeah, which is theoretical for her. 1:14:24.320 --> 1:14:25.960 Yeah. And I mean, like, this is one of the 1:14:25.960 --> 1:14:27.760 things that sucks about this right is like it it 1:14:27.960 --> 1:14:32.880 should not fall on you know, like literally the trend, 1:14:33.000 --> 1:14:36.040 like the rights of the children of an entire state 1:14:36.680 --> 1:14:41.000 are falling on like one mom and the few other 1:14:41.040 --> 1:14:43.240 Democrats who decided to take a stand with her, And 1:14:43.280 --> 1:14:46.600 that's fucked. That is nonsense. 1:14:47.000 --> 1:14:55.320 Like it's yeah, it's great that she's doing it, but like, yeah. 1:14:52.680 --> 1:14:56.160 This is this is horrible. Yeah. Do you know what 1:14:56.200 --> 1:14:57.040 else is horrible? 1:14:57.880 --> 1:15:03.720 A is it the product services that support podcast. 1:15:04.000 --> 1:15:06.479 By FTC regulations. I don't think I can legally say that, but. 1:15:06.760 --> 1:15:09.080 No, no, we do, don't know, it's not not that. 1:15:09.560 --> 1:15:13.000 Yeah, and we're back. Okay, So now we're gonna get 1:15:13.040 --> 1:15:16.479 to I think the most famous story or most most 1:15:16.560 --> 1:15:19.840 well known story of an anti trans fight that's been 1:15:19.840 --> 1:15:25.639 happening recently, and that is Montana. So Montana has passed 1:15:25.640 --> 1:15:29.200 a bill that bands gender for macare from binners and 1:15:29.240 --> 1:15:32.360 also opposes legal sanctions anyone who does it. Governor greg 1:15:32.400 --> 1:15:36.240 Giofanti like has a non binary son who's he they 1:15:36.720 --> 1:15:39.759 and he like gave a speech it was like dad, 1:15:39.960 --> 1:15:44.680 fucking don't sign these bills, and his dad signed them. Anyways. Yeah, 1:15:45.000 --> 1:15:47.400 one of the co sponsors of this bill, on the 1:15:47.439 --> 1:15:51.040 floor of of of the Montana House said she'd rather 1:15:51.080 --> 1:15:55.320 her children die in transition and then had it yeah yeah, 1:15:55.320 --> 1:15:56.920 And she had to give a press commence later saying 1:15:56.920 --> 1:15:59.639 she didn't actually mean that, but like, no, she that's 1:15:59.680 --> 1:16:01.840 literally what she said on the floor of the fucking house. 1:16:02.200 --> 1:16:05.760 So these people are ghouls and monsters. They are the 1:16:05.880 --> 1:16:11.200 dogs of the sort of the Republican Freedom Caucus, which 1:16:11.240 --> 1:16:17.640 is their like absolutely deranged like Matt Gates fucking weirdos 1:16:17.680 --> 1:16:20.160 in Congress who are if you remember that giant fight 1:16:20.240 --> 1:16:21.960 over the speaker of the house, like that was those 1:16:22.000 --> 1:16:26.120 freaks like the Yeah, these people are like their local 1:16:26.400 --> 1:16:30.639 sort of like dogs. There's two other absolutely terrifying bills 1:16:30.640 --> 1:16:33.639 that are about to become law. There's HB three fifty nine, 1:16:33.840 --> 1:16:36.479 which is a ban on kids attending drag shows, which 1:16:36.560 --> 1:16:40.200 like that bill has gotten less bad than it was, 1:16:40.320 --> 1:16:43.400 which is it's now a ban on kids attending adult entertainments. 1:16:43.960 --> 1:16:45.599 But you know, guess he gets to decide what adult 1:16:45.720 --> 1:16:48.679 entertainment is eta, et cetera. Right, yeah, and that bill 1:16:48.680 --> 1:16:51.200 has passed both the House and Senate is waiting for reconciliation. 1:16:52.080 --> 1:16:54.960 There is the even worse SB four fifty eight, which 1:16:55.040 --> 1:16:58.000 is basically the bill from Kansas, except I'm just gonna 1:16:58.040 --> 1:17:00.600 read some of it. Female. He is a member of 1:17:00.680 --> 1:17:04.360 the human species who, under normal developments, has produced xx 1:17:04.439 --> 1:17:08.880 chromosomes and producers, and would produce regular, relatively large, immobile 1:17:08.920 --> 1:17:12.800 gammeys or eggs dreen her life cycle, and has reproductive 1:17:12.800 --> 1:17:15.400 and endocrine system oriented around those production of gammes. An 1:17:15.400 --> 1:17:18.519 individual who would otherwise fall within this definition but for 1:17:18.560 --> 1:17:21.840 a biological or genetic condition, is female. So this is 1:17:21.920 --> 1:17:24.120 straight turf shit, right. This is the straight up like 1:17:24.600 --> 1:17:27.160 a woman as an adult human female thing that like, yeah, 1:17:27.600 --> 1:17:30.519 these people walk around saying thinking is like a normal 1:17:30.560 --> 1:17:32.480 thing to say, oh. 1:17:32.280 --> 1:17:35.519 Yeah, and thinking that like specifically the chromosonality thing we 1:17:35.560 --> 1:17:37.360 know has been bull shit for a very long time. 1:17:37.720 --> 1:17:40.040 There was nonsense. These people don't underst biology. 1:17:40.400 --> 1:17:44.439 Yeah, sorry, yeah, and we can like the example is 1:17:44.520 --> 1:17:47.719 this woman called Mario Jose Martinez Patino, who is a 1:17:47.800 --> 1:17:52.280 hurdler who won a number of events and then lost 1:17:52.520 --> 1:17:56.719 her medals because she failed a chromosonality test and fucking 1:17:56.760 --> 1:17:59.880 ruined her life right, lost her fiance, lost her job, 1:18:00.080 --> 1:18:03.040 lost all her competitions, and was able to successfully sue 1:18:03.080 --> 1:18:05.120 with the help of leading experts in the field, to 1:18:05.160 --> 1:18:07.960 prove that like I think she had like mosaics, she 1:18:08.000 --> 1:18:12.040 exhibited mosaicism like xx y, and that like this is 1:18:12.080 --> 1:18:15.600 in fact a normal fucking variation in the human species. 1:18:15.840 --> 1:18:17.880 And like this was in the eighties and we're still 1:18:17.920 --> 1:18:18.599 doing this shit. 1:18:19.000 --> 1:18:19.200 Yeap. 1:18:20.160 --> 1:18:21.920 Her papers are really good, by the way, she's a 1:18:21.960 --> 1:18:26.639 professor of philosophy. Now, oh cool, Yeah, yeah, she's yeah, 1:18:26.680 --> 1:18:28.559 she's great. I specator a few times, but. 1:18:29.320 --> 1:18:32.720 Yeah, rare rare w. Yeah. But like these people are 1:18:32.760 --> 1:18:36.840 doing you know, like they are you know this this 1:18:36.840 --> 1:18:39.760 this this bill legally rights trans people out of existence, 1:18:40.439 --> 1:18:42.519 and it is again another one of these gender pariograph 1:18:42.560 --> 1:18:45.479 things where this the state is legally defining what gender 1:18:45.600 --> 1:18:48.479 you are. But also you know, but again, like they 1:18:48.520 --> 1:18:51.360 have to do all this like bullshit, because you know, 1:18:51.439 --> 1:18:53.080 there's other thing I said, like these guys, these people 1:18:53.120 --> 1:18:57.160 are like slightly I don't know smarter is the right word, 1:18:57.200 --> 1:19:00.599 but they're slight there. They're slightly more engaged in turf shit. 1:19:01.280 --> 1:19:05.840 So they have a more convoluted, like biological misconception of 1:19:05.840 --> 1:19:09.000 what a woman is, which they can't define because it's 1:19:09.080 --> 1:19:10.080 not a thing, like. 1:19:10.400 --> 1:19:14.400 Yeah, it's a social constructagy yeah, because they can't society. Yeah, 1:19:14.439 --> 1:19:17.000 And put in mind of South Africa constantly chasing the 1:19:17.040 --> 1:19:20.640 fucking definition of what race was and like trying to 1:19:20.640 --> 1:19:24.720 define like a multi racial kids into one box or 1:19:24.760 --> 1:19:25.439 another box. 1:19:25.640 --> 1:19:27.599 Yeah, it's you know, it doesn't work. But the problem 1:19:27.640 --> 1:19:28.840 is this bill is going to be signed by the 1:19:28.840 --> 1:19:33.600 governor like next week, probably possibly this week, like in 1:19:33.640 --> 1:19:35.320 the next couple of weeks, is going to be signed. 1:19:37.240 --> 1:19:40.760 So that's really fucking bad. So the part of the 1:19:40.760 --> 1:19:43.600 story that thinks the most well known is Montana Republican's 1:19:43.600 --> 1:19:49.440 crusade against Montana House Rep. Zoe Zephyr. Zoe Zephyr is trans. 1:19:49.479 --> 1:19:51.840 She is a Rep for a part of Missoula, which 1:19:51.880 --> 1:19:54.479 is a college town home to the University of Montana. 1:19:55.520 --> 1:19:57.960 We talked about this a bit when Zoe won her seat, 1:19:58.080 --> 1:20:00.280 but I really before we really get into what's been 1:20:00.280 --> 1:20:01.960 happening to Zoie, I want to talk a bit about 1:20:01.960 --> 1:20:05.960 Missoula and a bit about the sort of the geography 1:20:05.960 --> 1:20:11.360 of transmigration, because the way the media talks about this, 1:20:11.760 --> 1:20:15.600 right is that you know, transmit like trans trans refugees 1:20:15.600 --> 1:20:18.080 and transmigration is something that started with these anti trans bills, 1:20:18.120 --> 1:20:23.320 And that's not true. This is this, all of this stuff, 1:20:23.439 --> 1:20:27.000 all of the sort of fleeing, all the refugee stuff, 1:20:27.240 --> 1:20:32.479 predates Tennessee, it predates Missouri. It's always been happening, yeah, 1:20:32.640 --> 1:20:35.800 you know, because and the the actual process of this 1:20:36.040 --> 1:20:39.160 is that, you know, for for generations and generations, the 1:20:39.200 --> 1:20:41.400 retcht of the earth get fed to the wolves, and 1:20:41.400 --> 1:20:43.040 then the wolves spit them out of their homes and 1:20:43.080 --> 1:20:48.000 their communities, and they fled. They fled to places like Portland, 1:20:48.200 --> 1:20:52.040 in Philadelphia, in Atlanta and Chicago, places where people like 1:20:52.120 --> 1:20:54.120 us had clawed out in existence in a world that 1:20:54.160 --> 1:20:57.559 wants us dead, where we countinuously survive off the shit 1:20:57.680 --> 1:21:00.519 end of urban labor markets. And this is something that 1:21:00.520 --> 1:21:02.560 has happened beneath the notice or even the contempt of 1:21:02.600 --> 1:21:04.960 BOSHWS society. But it's been going on for longer than 1:21:05.000 --> 1:21:06.920 we've had words that we've had the words that we 1:21:07.000 --> 1:21:10.200 used today to describe it. And you know, Missoula is 1:21:10.240 --> 1:21:11.720 one of those places where you can go when your 1:21:11.720 --> 1:21:13.800 family kicks you out, and then you know and that 1:21:13.920 --> 1:21:15.680 that's not the only way people end up here, right, 1:21:15.760 --> 1:21:18.240 Like there's a lot of people who you know, you know, 1:21:18.280 --> 1:21:21.080 have better stories, right they go to college, they discover themselves. 1:21:21.439 --> 1:21:23.880 There are people who go here because it's where they've 1:21:23.920 --> 1:21:27.120 chosen to make new lives. And you know something, there's 1:21:27.160 --> 1:21:29.840 also just people who are from Missulu who just realize 1:21:29.840 --> 1:21:32.880 their trans and you know, it's this mix of sort 1:21:32.960 --> 1:21:37.559 of trans refugees, transmigrants and the local trans community that 1:21:37.960 --> 1:21:41.040 you know all fuse together and becomes a sort of 1:21:41.040 --> 1:21:44.320 beautiful community that we've been you know, has finally like 1:21:45.640 --> 1:21:49.160 stepped out of the shadows in the last like ten years. 1:21:50.400 --> 1:21:52.200 And you know, and this is why it's not enormously 1:21:52.240 --> 1:21:54.800 surprising that Missoula sent Zoe's efforts to all let it 1:21:54.840 --> 1:21:56.559 to represent them, because this is, you know again like 1:21:56.600 --> 1:22:00.719 this is one of these places that like collects people 1:22:00.720 --> 1:22:03.639 from all over Montana and you know, from all over 1:22:03.720 --> 1:22:06.320 like eastern Washington too. Some of these people go to Seattle, 1:22:06.360 --> 1:22:09.519 some of these people go to Portland's but yeah, they're there. 1:22:09.600 --> 1:22:13.160 There have always been these massive networks of migration that 1:22:13.360 --> 1:22:16.080 just you know, no one ever, no one researches, no 1:22:16.080 --> 1:22:19.560 one talks about, no one even It's it's hard to 1:22:19.600 --> 1:22:22.360 even know they exist unless you know the people who 1:22:23.240 --> 1:22:26.640 like have been moved along them. The product of this 1:22:26.760 --> 1:22:30.000 now is that Zoe zephyr is Trans is in the 1:22:30.160 --> 1:22:32.040 you know, on the floor of the House debating with 1:22:32.080 --> 1:22:36.639 Republican legislatures this bill to uh uh like ban health 1:22:36.680 --> 1:22:40.280 care for for like trans youth, and she says, quote, 1:22:41.080 --> 1:22:43.280 if you vote yes on this bill and yes on 1:22:43.320 --> 1:22:45.800 these amendments, I hope the next time there's an invocation 1:22:45.920 --> 1:22:47.920 when you bow your hands in prayer, you see the 1:22:47.960 --> 1:22:51.439 blood on your hands, which I really wish because I mean, 1:22:51.520 --> 1:22:53.000 it talks about the blood on your hands. Thing costs, 1:22:53.040 --> 1:22:54.680 and I wish they read the whole quote because it 1:22:54.720 --> 1:22:57.640 fucking rips like it's great. 1:22:58.240 --> 1:23:00.479 Yeah, I think you need to do you. There's no 1:23:00.560 --> 1:23:02.559 fucking point in bourgeois civility with this stuff. 1:23:02.640 --> 1:23:04.680 Is that that's noo. And then and this is what 1:23:04.720 --> 1:23:05.759 has been one of things that's been happening. 1:23:05.800 --> 1:23:05.880 Right. 1:23:05.880 --> 1:23:08.680 It's like like the Republicans, their backlash that this been 1:23:08.720 --> 1:23:11.240 has been a sort of like, oh, you're not being 1:23:11.320 --> 1:23:14.479 civil thing right and like in uh like Senator Hunt 1:23:14.880 --> 1:23:20.679 in uh uh Nebraska was like literally didn't actually literally 1:23:20.720 --> 1:23:23.320 say fuck you. But you know, like I said, like yeah, 1:23:23.360 --> 1:23:25.080 like no, I'm I'm not gonna I'm not gonna like 1:23:25.120 --> 1:23:27.519 show up to like your like your dinner parties or whatever, 1:23:27.600 --> 1:23:29.439 like like you don't don't say hi to me in 1:23:29.479 --> 1:23:32.519 the halls, like you know, my fucking kid, and you 1:23:32.560 --> 1:23:34.040 know what you're doing to them. 1:23:34.240 --> 1:23:36.000 That's the way to approach it, right, like like the 1:23:36.080 --> 1:23:40.680 person trying to legislate your little trans son out of existence. 1:23:41.040 --> 1:23:43.160 Yeah, it was like fuck these people, they're gonna do 1:23:43.200 --> 1:23:45.840 this ship. Okay. So there's a couple of theories as 1:23:45.880 --> 1:23:49.040 to why what happened next happened next. There's been a 1:23:49.080 --> 1:23:51.120 lot of speculation that it's been like, oh, this is 1:23:51.160 --> 1:23:54.560 like a gambit by the the the Freedom Caucus to 1:23:54.920 --> 1:23:57.519 like turn Zoe's ephyr into like the face of the 1:23:57.560 --> 1:24:00.160 Montana Democratic parties they can win a Senate race. Like 1:24:00.200 --> 1:24:04.559 I actually don't buy that. I think very specifically the 1:24:04.800 --> 1:24:07.120 when you close your hands to pray, you see the 1:24:07.120 --> 1:24:08.880 blood in your hands thing, I think they got really 1:24:08.920 --> 1:24:12.040 fucking pissed off and then they just kept escalating. So 1:24:12.240 --> 1:24:16.800 after that happens, the Montana Republicans formally censor her and 1:24:17.600 --> 1:24:19.720 they prevent her from speaking on the floor until she 1:24:19.800 --> 1:24:22.880 apologizes and as long as like, no, fuck you, I 1:24:22.880 --> 1:24:26.160 got much, but she said no, I'm I'm not gonna apologize. Right, 1:24:27.120 --> 1:24:28.960 there are there are a bunch of like pretty large 1:24:29.000 --> 1:24:33.080 protests like in Helena that are like you know that 1:24:33.240 --> 1:24:36.240 that are that are like pro trans protests and protests 1:24:36.320 --> 1:24:39.280 to like let Zoe speak, and they arrest seven of 1:24:39.280 --> 1:24:40.120 the protesters. 1:24:40.280 --> 1:24:40.400 Uh. 1:24:41.040 --> 1:24:42.960 One of the people they arrest was I think a 1:24:43.000 --> 1:24:48.000 woman on crutches who like couldn't clear the area fast enough. Yeah, 1:24:48.080 --> 1:24:49.120 she was on crutches. 1:24:50.040 --> 1:24:50.240 Yeah. 1:24:50.400 --> 1:24:52.800 I was like I did go down before people didn't. Yeah, 1:24:53.360 --> 1:24:53.840 kinds of shit. 1:24:54.080 --> 1:24:56.800 And then and then the so there's like these are 1:24:56.800 --> 1:25:01.080 these protests in the gallery right, and the the Montana 1:25:01.120 --> 1:25:03.800 Republicans start doing this whole thing about how this is 1:25:03.880 --> 1:25:06.800 this is this is the democratic January sixth, and like 1:25:06.840 --> 1:25:09.400 they were storming the capital, the capitals in the seats. 1:25:09.520 --> 1:25:11.840 They tried to do that in Tennessee as well, Like 1:25:11.960 --> 1:25:14.920 it's so pathetic, like so asinine. 1:25:16.320 --> 1:25:18.160 Yeah, and the other thing I want to mention about 1:25:18.200 --> 1:25:22.240 this right is like okay, like the Montana Freedom Cocus 1:25:22.280 --> 1:25:24.920 people and all, like the censors and the fucking press 1:25:24.960 --> 1:25:27.280 releases are just constantly misgendering Zoe. 1:25:27.479 --> 1:25:27.760 It is. 1:25:28.640 --> 1:25:33.640 It's really fucking ugly. Uh yeah. And you know, so 1:25:33.720 --> 1:25:36.000 after these protests, the house like banishes her from the 1:25:36.000 --> 1:25:39.080 floor and kicks her out of her offices, and so 1:25:39.400 --> 1:25:42.959 she shows up like to work from a bench outside 1:25:43.000 --> 1:25:46.320 the chambers where like legally they can't kick her out 1:25:46.320 --> 1:25:49.639 of But then like this is an ongoing saga, right, 1:25:49.640 --> 1:25:52.800 like like this morning she showed up and there were 1:25:52.840 --> 1:25:55.559 like three really old white women sitting on. 1:25:55.520 --> 1:25:58.519 The bed speaker of the house's mum oh speak of 1:25:58.520 --> 1:25:59.080 the house as much. 1:25:59.240 --> 1:25:59.680 Yeah nice. 1:25:59.760 --> 1:26:02.960 Yeah, like this this fucking big Montana tough guy had 1:26:02.960 --> 1:26:05.439 to call his mom to fight his battles for him. 1:26:05.560 --> 1:26:12.680 Like they just insanely puerile, asinine nonsense. But it's unfortunately 1:26:12.840 --> 1:26:14.480 has very real consequences. 1:26:15.000 --> 1:26:17.360 Yeah, and like you know, so she was like at 1:26:17.439 --> 1:26:19.960 like a lut She was like like had her like 1:26:20.439 --> 1:26:23.519 tablet like on a lunch counter, taking meetings from like 1:26:23.520 --> 1:26:26.240 like standing at the counter. Yeah, it's it's been a 1:26:26.240 --> 1:26:30.040 whole thing. Also, I think earlier today someone someone tried 1:26:30.080 --> 1:26:34.360 to swat her girlfriend. Yeah, because the journalist Aaron Reid. 1:26:34.760 --> 1:26:36.880 Uh so that's bad. 1:26:37.600 --> 1:26:37.720 Uh. 1:26:37.800 --> 1:26:40.759 This whole thing has been getting like an unbelievable amount 1:26:41.000 --> 1:26:45.320 of media attention, and you know, in a very very 1:26:45.320 --> 1:26:47.760 short period of time, Zoe Zephyr goes from someone who 1:26:47.800 --> 1:26:50.280 I know about because I'm trans, and like all trans 1:26:50.280 --> 1:26:52.519 people are like four hops away from each other, something 1:26:52.560 --> 1:26:56.080 I probably shouldn't say, but like it's true. Yeah, you 1:26:56.160 --> 1:26:59.479 kind of get there aren't that many of us, and 1:26:59.520 --> 1:27:02.680 a lot of sor extremely online, so like, you know, 1:27:02.920 --> 1:27:05.120 I'm like two hops away from this person, right, like 1:27:06.120 --> 1:27:09.040 from multiple strangles with her, right, Yeah, I met her 1:27:09.120 --> 1:27:11.720 like very briefly in a stream. She's you know, like 1:27:11.800 --> 1:27:15.680 she's a good person. She I don't know, she's just 1:27:15.720 --> 1:27:17.599 like this is one of the things that I think, 1:27:17.640 --> 1:27:20.760 like I've met a couple of the or a few 1:27:20.840 --> 1:27:24.760 of the like very famous like trans people who sort 1:27:24.760 --> 1:27:29.320 of come under the gun, and they're just normal fucking people, 1:27:30.120 --> 1:27:36.080 like just normal trans people, and this bullshit happens to them. 1:27:36.680 --> 1:27:40.080 Yeah, it's so like bullshit that like, like I know 1:27:40.080 --> 1:27:42.080 a number of trans ladies who are bike racist, right 1:27:42.200 --> 1:27:45.720 and like they like, it must be pretty clear that 1:27:45.760 --> 1:27:47.960 if you win a fucking race, you win a big race, 1:27:48.000 --> 1:27:50.320 like you know what's coming for you know, fucking bright 1:27:50.360 --> 1:27:52.240 Barton News is going to have you on there the 1:27:52.240 --> 1:27:55.200 next year. It's and the same for her. Right, she 1:27:55.960 --> 1:27:58.439 likely would have been aware that at the moment she 1:27:58.600 --> 1:28:02.519 like tried to defend right to fucking exist all the 1:28:02.640 --> 1:28:06.240 very worst people around the country with baying for blood. 1:28:07.520 --> 1:28:10.280 She's very brave she did. Anyway, like that she should 1:28:10.560 --> 1:28:12.040 fuck them. They shouldn't be able to side and. 1:28:12.080 --> 1:28:17.880 Say yeah, okay, we should take an ad break. Yeah, 1:28:17.920 --> 1:28:20.479 one more time and then yeah we'll come back and. 1:28:20.400 --> 1:28:24.000 Say something funny. Bit more che che che church Chumber. 1:28:25.280 --> 1:28:29.280 Oh, okay, we're back. Okay. So in the middle of 1:28:29.320 --> 1:28:33.920 all of this, Zoe went home to I think there 1:28:34.000 --> 1:28:37.479 was like a recess or something, because legislatures work like 1:28:37.920 --> 1:28:41.960 two days a year, rich people hours. Yeah it's bullshit, like, 1:28:42.760 --> 1:28:43.680 yeah they have. 1:28:43.720 --> 1:28:47.040 Like a break for fucking horse racing and yeah, had 1:28:47.080 --> 1:28:48.200 to do polo or whatever. 1:28:48.640 --> 1:28:51.639 Yeah, But so she she went home to Missoula and 1:28:51.920 --> 1:28:55.680 there was a just like a massive march. There was 1:28:55.840 --> 1:28:58.040 this rally that turned into like this basically like a 1:28:58.080 --> 1:29:02.680 twenty four hour long party. People my favorite story for this. 1:29:02.800 --> 1:29:06.080 There's some people who Okay, so they brought beer they 1:29:06.120 --> 1:29:12.400 had got from rowing a boat out to a derailed train. Yes, 1:29:13.880 --> 1:29:18.120 I say, the two media narratives of twenty twenty three. Yeah, yeah, 1:29:18.160 --> 1:29:21.720 I mean it's great and like you know, I mean, 1:29:22.000 --> 1:29:26.599 I think in these sort of moments, right, you can 1:29:26.640 --> 1:29:29.120 see the new world there, right, you can see a 1:29:29.160 --> 1:29:31.360 world where you know, we no longer live in fear. 1:29:32.160 --> 1:29:34.800 This you can see this world where we're free to 1:29:34.840 --> 1:29:38.320 create joy and meeting in art in our lives, you know, 1:29:38.439 --> 1:29:40.800 can be a celebration of the beauty that's in and 1:29:40.840 --> 1:29:45.400 around us. But that world, the world that generations and 1:29:45.640 --> 1:29:49.120 generations with trans people have fought and died to sort 1:29:49.160 --> 1:29:51.080 of claw out of the dirt the world tried to 1:29:51.120 --> 1:29:54.559 bury us in, that world will die unless we fight 1:29:54.640 --> 1:29:57.280 for it. And that fight cannot be left to individual 1:29:57.360 --> 1:30:01.519 state representatives. There's not enough of them. Eventually they will lose. 1:30:01.560 --> 1:30:03.360 And and this is this is the other story of 1:30:03.439 --> 1:30:06.400 Montana rights. As much as you know, as much as 1:30:06.439 --> 1:30:08.320 what's been going on in Montana, is a story about 1:30:08.320 --> 1:30:11.680 a trans woman defying like all of the sort of 1:30:11.760 --> 1:30:15.200 organized power for state, like all of those bills passed, 1:30:16.240 --> 1:30:20.000 and there is not enough power to If we keep 1:30:20.000 --> 1:30:22.320 trying to fight them in legislatures, and we keep trying 1:30:22.360 --> 1:30:26.080 to only fight them in in the legislatures and in court, 1:30:26.160 --> 1:30:30.280 we're going to lose. But okay, I probably shouldn't say 1:30:30.280 --> 1:30:32.439 this before I know we've we've locked in the title. 1:30:32.560 --> 1:30:35.920 But the projected title of this is the trans is 1:30:35.960 --> 1:30:38.120 the Transgendocide. A siege and a counter attack, And I 1:30:38.160 --> 1:30:41.320 promised a counterattack, So now I'm gonna give it to you. 1:30:41.800 --> 1:30:44.320 You didn't want like brief notes on the seage, like 1:30:44.800 --> 1:30:46.719 you could have gone full maoist on the side. 1:30:46.760 --> 1:30:48.240 Why we will, but we did. We did that with 1:30:48.240 --> 1:30:51.120 the other one, and I realized after the last episode 1:30:51.120 --> 1:30:52.280 we did on this that I could have just called 1:30:52.280 --> 1:30:54.599 it counterattack and that would be better. So I've saved 1:30:54.640 --> 1:30:55.479 it for this moment. 1:30:57.200 --> 1:30:58.680 I'm glad that you get to ease it. 1:30:59.200 --> 1:31:03.599 So, Okay. One of the things that's become incredibly apparent 1:31:03.760 --> 1:31:06.160 in the last in the last few years is that 1:31:07.200 --> 1:31:10.599 as as much as there is sort of passive transphobia society, 1:31:10.640 --> 1:31:13.320 transphobia is not a sort of nebulous idea that just 1:31:13.360 --> 1:31:16.920 like floats freely around the world. It is brought into 1:31:16.920 --> 1:31:19.880 this world by men. And you know, we know the 1:31:19.920 --> 1:31:22.880 foundational story of how these men and women gain power. Right, 1:31:22.920 --> 1:31:25.439 they cut a deal with capital to reconstitute the Republican 1:31:25.479 --> 1:31:29.080 Party in the eighties. But you know this is this 1:31:29.120 --> 1:31:30.559 is both their weakness and their strength. 1:31:30.760 --> 1:31:31.000 Right. 1:31:31.120 --> 1:31:33.559 It's their strength because this gives them an enormous amount 1:31:33.560 --> 1:31:35.720 of resources to pull on. It gives them the institutional 1:31:35.760 --> 1:31:39.720 backing of an entire political party. But it's weakness is 1:31:39.720 --> 1:31:42.400 and it means that capital and the transphobes are bound together. 1:31:42.960 --> 1:31:44.920 And this means that when you scratch a capitalist of 1:31:44.960 --> 1:31:52.559 transphobe bleeds. Now, the other things that we know are A, 1:31:52.880 --> 1:31:55.160 there are power in there's power and logistics, and b 1:31:55.280 --> 1:31:59.479 there are companies profiting from genocide. FedEx, for example. FedEx's 1:31:59.479 --> 1:32:02.559 headquarters are in Tennessee. Tennessee has passed a bunch of pennesces, 1:32:02.680 --> 1:32:05.720 like the state where this shit all fucking started, right 1:32:05.840 --> 1:32:08.720 with the original bathroom bills, with their drag bills, with 1:32:08.760 --> 1:32:12.519 their n you know, they've also passed bands on miners 1:32:12.560 --> 1:32:15.320 getting gender firm and care. There are other states where 1:32:15.320 --> 1:32:17.160 you know, you can look at the largest sort of 1:32:17.200 --> 1:32:20.880 companies in the states like Missouri is probably like Panera, Montana, 1:32:21.000 --> 1:32:26.000 Schnyder Electric, Kentucky's probably KFC, And you know those companies 1:32:26.040 --> 1:32:27.880 are weaknesses. So what am I talking about here? I'm 1:32:27.880 --> 1:32:29.880 not talking about a boycott because this is the US. 1:32:29.960 --> 1:32:33.040 Nobody fucking knows how to do a boycott. Like when 1:32:33.080 --> 1:32:35.559 when Americans try to do a boycott, they buy like 1:32:35.680 --> 1:32:38.160 sixteen pallets of bud light and shoot it with a bazuka, 1:32:38.560 --> 1:32:40.560 right Like, this is the This is a boycott. 1:32:40.560 --> 1:32:41.000 It is not. 1:32:42.640 --> 1:32:45.400 What I'm talking about here is something a lot more serious. 1:32:46.439 --> 1:32:48.760 You know, we we we've we've we've seen this sort 1:32:48.800 --> 1:32:54.240 of so let me praise this. We've sort of the 1:32:54.320 --> 1:32:56.400 sort of echoes of what this kind of campaign could 1:32:56.479 --> 1:32:59.960 look like with the subcop City protest with you know, 1:33:00.080 --> 1:33:02.559 you have protests outside the offices of banks and outside 1:33:02.560 --> 1:33:07.000 of corporations that are backing that are backing cop City. 1:33:07.040 --> 1:33:09.040 But I'm talking you know that and that at the 1:33:09.080 --> 1:33:11.479 most mild is something that we should be doing. Right, 1:33:11.760 --> 1:33:13.800 These companies that are profiting from genocide, the companies that 1:33:13.800 --> 1:33:17.640 are you know, funded by the fucking tax exemptions that 1:33:17.640 --> 1:33:19.599 are given out by these states, the companies that are 1:33:20.080 --> 1:33:24.400 you know, giving money to the seple political campaigns. But 1:33:24.520 --> 1:33:26.880 I'm talking about more than that. I'm talking about blockades. 1:33:27.240 --> 1:33:29.280 This is you know, very speifically FedEx is quite post 1:33:29.439 --> 1:33:31.280 is possibly the best example of a company that you 1:33:31.280 --> 1:33:35.120 can that you can just target. Right talking about blockades, 1:33:35.120 --> 1:33:38.680 we're talking about supply like disrupting their supply chains. I'm 1:33:38.680 --> 1:33:42.280 talking about very specifically a campaign that put the trans 1:33:42.280 --> 1:33:44.920 sword to the arteries of capital and make the bassards bleed. 1:33:45.640 --> 1:33:48.800 I'm talking about a counter attack. Now. The advantage of 1:33:48.840 --> 1:33:52.720 the strategy of picking corporations, targeting them and disrupt like 1:33:52.880 --> 1:33:56.040 not not not just necessarily protesting outside of their office 1:33:56.040 --> 1:33:59.479 so though doing that, but specifically actually making them fucking bleed, 1:33:59.520 --> 1:34:01.799 actually just rupting their ability to function as a company. 1:34:02.479 --> 1:34:02.639 Right. 1:34:02.720 --> 1:34:04.680 The advantage of this strategy, which is developed and sort 1:34:04.680 --> 1:34:07.080 of broad strokes of my dear friend Vicky Ostroweil, is 1:34:07.080 --> 1:34:09.439 that what one of the big, one of the big 1:34:09.439 --> 1:34:11.920 problems we have in this whole fight is this sort 1:34:11.960 --> 1:34:15.439 of weird is this geo the geographic mismatch, right, the 1:34:15.560 --> 1:34:18.160 you know, the majority of people in the US and 1:34:18.160 --> 1:34:21.040 also the majority of people in most of the states 1:34:21.040 --> 1:34:23.240 where this is happening, right, don't support this ship, but 1:34:23.240 --> 1:34:25.360 it doesn't matter because you know, the district are jerry 1:34:25.400 --> 1:34:28.640 mandered to fuck and you know, but but it means that, 1:34:28.680 --> 1:34:30.800 like there's a lot of people who like me, for example, 1:34:30.840 --> 1:34:35.120 like I live in Illinois, right, like the the you know, 1:34:35.160 --> 1:34:37.080 under normal circumstances, the best I can do is help 1:34:37.120 --> 1:34:39.799 my friends in Missouri get out and try to help, 1:34:41.200 --> 1:34:46.280 like you know, do do do things like secure access 1:34:46.280 --> 1:34:49.000 to transport and housing for refugees, secure access to hormones 1:34:49.000 --> 1:34:52.240 of people. But if we're if we're going after if 1:34:52.240 --> 1:34:54.639 you're going after capital, if we're going after the companies, 1:34:55.479 --> 1:34:58.200 the banks, the financial institutions that are funding this ship, 1:34:59.080 --> 1:35:01.679 we can hit them everywhere where because states have borders, 1:35:01.720 --> 1:35:05.519 but capital doesn't. And that means that you know, you know, 1:35:05.680 --> 1:35:08.320 we can if if if if you are specifically you 1:35:08.360 --> 1:35:10.519 want to target the legislature of Kentucky, you can go 1:35:10.560 --> 1:35:13.240 after fucking KFC, right, you can go after their banks, 1:35:13.240 --> 1:35:14.760 you can go after you can go after anyone who 1:35:14.800 --> 1:35:17.400 funds them. We can hit them on multiple fronts here, right, 1:35:17.479 --> 1:35:19.880 we can hit them with protests, but these companies also 1:35:19.920 --> 1:35:21.960 they rely on our labor, right, a lot of these 1:35:22.000 --> 1:35:24.880 places are you know, are either sort of fast food 1:35:24.960 --> 1:35:27.280 change or logistics networks, and that's that's a place where 1:35:27.400 --> 1:35:29.640 you know, trans people are overrepresented because trans people are 1:35:29.680 --> 1:35:33.519 overrepresented in the service sector, you know, again, because it's 1:35:33.560 --> 1:35:36.120 easier to get jobs there and institutional transphobia locks you 1:35:36.160 --> 1:35:41.360 out of better jobs. They also rely on public infrastructure. 1:35:41.400 --> 1:35:44.639 They rely on you know, streets being open, right, they 1:35:44.640 --> 1:35:48.400 rely on an entire logistics network to make sure and 1:35:48.439 --> 1:35:50.519 not only are they extracting the labor of people that 1:35:50.560 --> 1:35:54.160 they are like you know, the sort of like theoretical 1:35:54.240 --> 1:35:55.200 term for this is realization. 1:35:55.280 --> 1:35:55.439 Right. 1:35:55.439 --> 1:35:56.840 They have to actually be able to sell, They have 1:35:56.840 --> 1:35:57.960 to be able to assemble their product, and they have 1:35:57.960 --> 1:35:59.840 to be able to sell it. And you can stop 1:35:59.840 --> 1:36:03.200 them those things, right, I mean the KFC. And sometimes 1:36:03.200 --> 1:36:05.439 it's also kind of hard because there's franchise shit going on. 1:36:05.960 --> 1:36:09.160 But that's not true with FedEx, Like every FedEx office 1:36:09.280 --> 1:36:13.880 is FedEx, and you know, the these are these are 1:36:13.920 --> 1:36:17.880 companies that like, maybe we can't fucking drive them underground, right, 1:36:18.360 --> 1:36:20.479 but we can make them bleed, and we can make 1:36:20.520 --> 1:36:22.919 it we can make it painful enough to be complicit 1:36:22.960 --> 1:36:25.639 in this genocide that these people that you know, these 1:36:25.640 --> 1:36:28.760 people get fucking asked, right, we can, we can, we 1:36:28.800 --> 1:36:30.160 can make them bleed, we can go And you know 1:36:30.200 --> 1:36:32.200 another another thing that you know people can do, right 1:36:32.320 --> 1:36:34.840 is it's not that you know, if if if you 1:36:35.200 --> 1:36:38.559 have like a spare afternoon on a weekend, Right, it's 1:36:38.640 --> 1:36:40.759 not that hard to figure out that, like the specific 1:36:40.800 --> 1:36:44.120 business interests of the legislators who are voting for this stuff. 1:36:45.000 --> 1:36:47.559 You can just do this. All these people are unbelievably corrupt. 1:36:47.720 --> 1:36:49.200 They have land deals that they're doing. 1:36:50.000 --> 1:36:52.559 And so you know, open records and let you see 1:36:52.560 --> 1:36:54.439 who donates to all those people as well. 1:36:54.560 --> 1:36:57.200 Yeah. Yeah, and there are websites that you can just like, 1:36:57.800 --> 1:36:59.479 like you can just google who gives the notions to 1:36:59.520 --> 1:37:02.120 people and yeah, it's like donations trackers, and you can 1:37:02.560 --> 1:37:04.120 like plug in their name and it will show you 1:37:04.280 --> 1:37:05.120 whe who donates to them. 1:37:05.240 --> 1:37:05.439 Yeah. 1:37:06.160 --> 1:37:08.880 And so we have learned through the through sort of 1:37:08.920 --> 1:37:13.320 the experience of the past few years, right, that these 1:37:13.360 --> 1:37:16.759 people cannot be swayed by logic. They cannot be swayed 1:37:16.800 --> 1:37:19.960 by they can't be swayed by logic, they cannot be 1:37:20.000 --> 1:37:23.080 swayed by science. They cannot be swayed by. You know, 1:37:23.160 --> 1:37:25.519 they cannot be swayed by the emotional appeals. They do 1:37:25.520 --> 1:37:27.679 not give a shit about trans people. They would literally 1:37:27.800 --> 1:37:32.519 rather have their kids die than be trans. But again, 1:37:33.880 --> 1:37:36.840 the one thing they do care about is capital. And 1:37:36.960 --> 1:37:38.960 if you, if you, if you, if you, if you 1:37:39.040 --> 1:37:42.400 make capital bleed, these people will bleed to and that 1:37:42.439 --> 1:37:45.040 will actually fucking hurt them, and that will give you 1:37:45.080 --> 1:37:47.720 the leverage you need to let these people make a choice. Right, 1:37:48.000 --> 1:37:51.040 it's either us or the world of capital burns. 1:38:05.320 --> 1:38:09.160 It's a warm spring afternoon in Atlanta, Georgia. You and 1:38:09.200 --> 1:38:11.439 some of your friends are dancing in the sunlight at 1:38:11.439 --> 1:38:14.920 a music festival in South Atlanta. It's day two of 1:38:14.960 --> 1:38:17.840 the South River Music Festival. Last night you stayed up 1:38:17.880 --> 1:38:21.280 till three am, alternating between mashing in the pit and 1:38:21.360 --> 1:38:23.880 laying down on a blanket looking up at the night sky, 1:38:24.520 --> 1:38:28.400 trying to see stars through the light pollution. After you 1:38:28.439 --> 1:38:30.400 had your fill of edm you called it a night 1:38:30.520 --> 1:38:33.240 and hastily set up a tent in the forest near 1:38:33.280 --> 1:38:35.880 the edge of the festival. You tried to sleep as 1:38:35.920 --> 1:38:38.479 long as you could, but soon enough the hustle and 1:38:38.520 --> 1:38:40.639 bustle around the forest beckoned you out. 1:38:40.640 --> 1:38:41.160 Of your tent. 1:38:41.640 --> 1:38:44.080 As you mosied on over back to the music festival. 1:38:44.439 --> 1:38:48.360 Immediately something new caught your eye, a large, multi colored 1:38:48.400 --> 1:38:51.120 inflatable bouncy castle sitting right in the middle of the 1:38:51.120 --> 1:38:56.639 field with a big stopcop City banner hung along the side. 1:38:56.720 --> 1:38:59.519 After you fully woke up, you grabbed a free breakfast 1:38:59.520 --> 1:39:03.000 burrito and took a nice walk through the winding forest. 1:39:03.760 --> 1:39:06.439 Now that you've finished your breakfast, you're back at the 1:39:06.560 --> 1:39:09.000 far end of the open field, in front of the 1:39:09.040 --> 1:39:12.000 stage where there's been live music playing for the past 1:39:12.000 --> 1:39:15.759 few hours. You and some friends briefly try a stint 1:39:15.800 --> 1:39:18.799 in the bouncy castle, but quickly return to the festival 1:39:18.800 --> 1:39:22.200 stage as you tire out much faster than you expected. 1:39:23.120 --> 1:39:26.760 As the sun is barely starting to set around six pm, 1:39:26.760 --> 1:39:30.639 suddenly you notice the faint scream of police sirens piercing 1:39:30.680 --> 1:39:34.200 through the music being blasted from on stage. You stand 1:39:34.280 --> 1:39:37.680 up as the sirens get louder and closer, until a 1:39:37.800 --> 1:39:40.880 burst of police cars zoom past the music festival at 1:39:41.080 --> 1:39:46.920 high speed. A short sigh of relief is followed by confusion. 1:39:47.640 --> 1:39:50.160 Where else would a whole bunch of police cars be going, 1:39:50.840 --> 1:39:53.439 But as nothing seems to come of it, everyone starts 1:39:53.479 --> 1:39:56.880 to relax and begin enjoying music once again with the 1:39:57.280 --> 1:40:01.880 apparent absence of police. There's a few brief moments of 1:40:01.920 --> 1:40:06.080 peace at the festival as things continue as scheduled, except 1:40:06.160 --> 1:40:09.000 you can't help but notice the police helicopter is flying 1:40:09.080 --> 1:40:13.160 across the forest toward the festival. As you take note 1:40:13.160 --> 1:40:15.320 of the chopper, you receive a signal message from a 1:40:15.360 --> 1:40:19.080 friend quote cops have entered the parking lot with AR 1:40:19.200 --> 1:40:23.040 fifteen's unquote. You lift up your mask and start running 1:40:23.080 --> 1:40:26.320 across the field to the parking lot at Willawne People's Park, 1:40:26.760 --> 1:40:29.559 But before you even make it halfway across, you notice 1:40:29.640 --> 1:40:32.680 up ahead a few dozen police officers sprinting into the 1:40:32.680 --> 1:40:40.080 open field from the festival side entrance. As the sun 1:40:40.280 --> 1:40:43.120 is setting, a group of cops run past the bouncy 1:40:43.160 --> 1:40:47.160 house and starts chasing down seemingly random concert goers and 1:40:47.320 --> 1:40:51.320 loan stragglers. One officer points his rifle at the bouncy 1:40:51.360 --> 1:40:52.440 house as another. 1:40:52.280 --> 1:40:53.600 Turns off the generator. 1:40:54.560 --> 1:40:57.160 You group up with other people from the festival in 1:40:57.240 --> 1:41:01.040 hopes of working together to incentivize police to leave the area. 1:41:01.800 --> 1:41:05.240 As you get closer, the cops start getting more aggressive. 1:41:06.040 --> 1:41:08.400 Just up ahead a bit further into the woods, close 1:41:08.439 --> 1:41:10.600 to where you set up your tent, you hear some 1:41:10.840 --> 1:41:14.559 loud bangs and see a flash of bright light. First, 1:41:14.600 --> 1:41:17.639 you assume it's just fireworks being used to hold off 1:41:17.680 --> 1:41:21.559 the cops until you start coughing and see the faint 1:41:21.680 --> 1:41:25.439 plume of tear gas seeping in from the forest. You're 1:41:25.479 --> 1:41:27.840 forced to fall back to the festival and regroup with 1:41:27.880 --> 1:41:31.240 people by the stage, where music is still being played. 1:41:32.040 --> 1:41:34.240 As you're running back, you can see dozens of people 1:41:34.280 --> 1:41:37.200 in zip ti cuffs, many still pinned to the ground, 1:41:38.280 --> 1:41:40.840 still coughing from the gas. You make your way back 1:41:40.880 --> 1:41:44.240 to where you are washing the previous night. The crowd 1:41:44.280 --> 1:41:47.400 of festivalgoers tightens up as riot vans and a bear 1:41:47.479 --> 1:41:50.920 cat pull into the field next to the deflated bouncy castle. 1:41:51.720 --> 1:41:55.240 Police swat teams surround the South River Music Festival and 1:41:55.360 --> 1:41:59.240 creep towards the stage, threatening to charge hundreds of people 1:41:59.479 --> 1:42:03.360 with demes stick terrorism. Hanging on the backdrop of the 1:42:03.400 --> 1:42:06.760 stage is a massive banner that reads, quote in the 1:42:06.760 --> 1:42:10.480 eyes of the state, all who resist white supremacy, colonialism, 1:42:10.760 --> 1:42:19.920 environmental racism, gentrification, and police militarization are domestic terrorists unquote. 1:42:21.400 --> 1:42:25.800 That was the evening of Sunday, March fifth, twenty twenty three. 1:42:25.840 --> 1:42:29.360 This is it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. I 1:42:29.479 --> 1:42:32.519 arrived in Atlanta a few days prior in preparation for 1:42:32.600 --> 1:42:35.439 the March Week of Action to Defend the Atlanta Forest 1:42:35.520 --> 1:42:38.840 and Stop cop City. This is part one of a 1:42:38.880 --> 1:42:43.440 four part series covering this week of action, featuring interviews, reportbacks, 1:42:43.439 --> 1:42:47.439 and analysis from both participants and observers like myself. This 1:42:47.520 --> 1:42:49.880 four part series will be a follow up of sorts 1:42:49.920 --> 1:42:52.679 to the four stop Coop City episodes we put together 1:42:52.840 --> 1:42:57.120 last January following the death of forest defender Tortigita at 1:42:57.120 --> 1:43:00.639 the hands of the Georgia State Patrol, as well as 1:43:00.720 --> 1:43:03.639 building off my previous year of work covering the movement 1:43:03.760 --> 1:43:06.679 to defend the Atlanta Forest. But in case you're new 1:43:06.880 --> 1:43:10.600 or need a refresher, for over two years now, activists 1:43:10.600 --> 1:43:13.040 and community members have been in a fight to save 1:43:13.080 --> 1:43:16.400 the Wallani Forest from being turned into a massive ninety 1:43:16.439 --> 1:43:20.360 million dollar police training facility stretching across one hundred and 1:43:20.360 --> 1:43:23.760 seventy acres, with plans to include a mock city for 1:43:23.960 --> 1:43:28.719 urban combat training. To quell civil descent. The cop City 1:43:28.800 --> 1:43:31.720 project is being led by the Atlanta Police Foundation, one 1:43:31.760 --> 1:43:34.320 of the most powerful police lobbying groups in the country. 1:43:35.080 --> 1:43:38.040 Following seventeen hours of public comment, seventy percent of which 1:43:38.200 --> 1:43:41.320 was against the facility, the Atlanta City Council voted to 1:43:41.360 --> 1:43:44.760 approve the project's lease in September of twenty twenty one, 1:43:45.360 --> 1:43:50.240 despite months of protests and community organizing. Later that fall, 1:43:50.280 --> 1:43:53.439 people started occupying and camping out in the Wallani Forest 1:43:53.640 --> 1:43:56.840 to maintain a physical presence in the woods in hopes 1:43:56.880 --> 1:44:00.920 of preventing or delaying construction. Infrastructure sure to support long 1:44:01.040 --> 1:44:04.599 term encampments grew over the next year, with forest defenders 1:44:04.600 --> 1:44:08.360 erecting treehouses, road blockades, and making the forest a place 1:44:08.400 --> 1:44:12.200 that people could actually live in, with outdoor kitchens, community gardens, 1:44:12.200 --> 1:44:14.240 and places to sleep, whether that be up in a 1:44:14.280 --> 1:44:17.799 tree or in a tent. For a while it seemed 1:44:17.840 --> 1:44:22.000 to be working. Throughout twenty twenty two, construction continued to stall. 1:44:22.160 --> 1:44:25.320 Almost every time cops and workers came in to start 1:44:25.360 --> 1:44:29.599 cutting trees, they were met with resistance. Construction equipment left 1:44:29.640 --> 1:44:33.160 around the forest was routinely sabotaged, and last year, a 1:44:33.240 --> 1:44:36.800 tertiary targeting campaign resulted in the general contract of for 1:44:36.840 --> 1:44:39.920 a cop City, reeves Young Construction to drop out of 1:44:39.960 --> 1:44:44.000 the project. Police enacted multiple raids on the forest in 1:44:44.040 --> 1:44:47.240 twenty twenty two, trying to flush out any forest defenders 1:44:47.240 --> 1:44:50.560 camping out in the woods and tear down encampment infrastructure, 1:44:51.200 --> 1:44:54.759 but the occupation was generally able to bounce back pretty quick. 1:44:55.439 --> 1:44:58.240 As the movement to stop cop City was seemingly winning, 1:44:58.520 --> 1:45:02.360 police intensified their oppression as a series of raids in 1:45:02.400 --> 1:45:05.280 December of last year decimated much of the infrastructure that 1:45:05.320 --> 1:45:07.240 was built up over the course of that year and 1:45:07.360 --> 1:45:11.080 left six people with domestic terrorism charges. But things got 1:45:11.120 --> 1:45:14.960 worse just a month later. In January of twenty twenty three, 1:45:15.400 --> 1:45:18.400 multiple police agencies engaged in a mass raid of the 1:45:18.400 --> 1:45:23.320 Wallani Forest, destroying all remaining campsites. About an hour into 1:45:23.360 --> 1:45:26.439 the January eighteenth raid, the Georgia State Patrol swat team 1:45:26.600 --> 1:45:29.479 killed the twenty six year old forest defender Manuel Tehran, 1:45:29.760 --> 1:45:34.040 also known by their forest name Torti Ghita. Decab County's 1:45:34.040 --> 1:45:38.280 autopsy found at least fifty seven gunshot wounds from multiple officers. 1:45:38.880 --> 1:45:42.200 We'll talk more about the results from various autopsies in 1:45:42.240 --> 1:45:45.519 a later episode, but just a few weeks ago, tort 1:45:45.560 --> 1:45:49.160 would have turned twenty seven. The other side of the 1:45:49.160 --> 1:45:52.639 Defend the Forest movement is focused on a smaller section 1:45:52.720 --> 1:45:57.160 of the Wallani Forest just east of Entrenchment Creek. Initially 1:45:57.200 --> 1:46:00.799 in hopes of expanding his movie studios, the now former 1:46:00.880 --> 1:46:04.400 owner of Blackhall Studios, Ryan Millsap, has been trying to 1:46:04.439 --> 1:46:08.040 gain control of forty acres of public parkland through a 1:46:08.200 --> 1:46:12.160 shady landswap deal with Decap County that's currently subject to 1:46:12.280 --> 1:46:15.439 legal disputes. The slate of land in question contains the 1:46:15.439 --> 1:46:18.200 popular meeting spot in the forest known as the Living Room, 1:46:18.479 --> 1:46:21.400 which acts as a sort of central hub, as well 1:46:21.439 --> 1:46:24.599 as what's referred to as Wilauni People's Park, where the 1:46:24.640 --> 1:46:27.640 park gazebe used to be before Ryan Millsap demolished it, 1:46:28.280 --> 1:46:30.800 later ripping out all of the grass and sidewalks in 1:46:30.840 --> 1:46:35.960 a once again legally questionable move. In January, Wilani People's 1:46:35.960 --> 1:46:39.160 Park also became home to the vigil site for Torteguita. 1:46:40.000 --> 1:46:42.599 All at Let Matt from the Atlantic Community Press Collective 1:46:43.000 --> 1:46:46.360 explain the other happenings in the woods since January. 1:46:46.880 --> 1:46:50.680 They got their land disturbance permit in late January, and 1:46:50.920 --> 1:46:54.080 the first phase of the land disturbance permit only allows 1:46:54.160 --> 1:46:59.280 for soil erosion control work. So to this point, essentially 1:46:59.280 --> 1:47:02.200 what they've done is they've they've clear cut some paths 1:47:02.240 --> 1:47:08.120 into the forest into the proposed site, and then around 1:47:08.240 --> 1:47:12.000 the exterior of the site they've clear cut a line 1:47:12.120 --> 1:47:16.639 in order to install silt fencing. So there isn't a 1:47:16.760 --> 1:47:19.160 large amount of infrastructure. They're not allowed to do a 1:47:19.240 --> 1:47:22.800 large amount of disturbance right now. They're in like the 1:47:22.920 --> 1:47:27.760 pre construction phase right now. So they started in February 1:47:27.800 --> 1:47:30.320 and they did a lot of work very quickly. They 1:47:30.360 --> 1:47:32.599 installed a privacy fence so you can't really see what's 1:47:32.640 --> 1:47:35.559 going on, so our general understanding of it like comes 1:47:35.560 --> 1:47:39.519 from drone footage. It actually slowed down a couple weeks later, 1:47:40.120 --> 1:47:42.720 and from what I understand, they began to pull some 1:47:42.800 --> 1:47:45.840 construction equipment out, probably not wanting to leave you know, 1:47:45.920 --> 1:47:51.520 a target for shall we say, any sort of spicy activities. 1:47:52.240 --> 1:47:55.880 But not all of their construction equipment was removed. As 1:47:56.040 --> 1:48:01.960 everyone would soon find out, the deadly January raid left 1:48:02.000 --> 1:48:05.120 the community in the morning and unsure of how the 1:48:05.120 --> 1:48:08.080 fight to stop copp City would evolve with the use 1:48:08.160 --> 1:48:11.600 of lethal force and the loss of a friend. The 1:48:11.640 --> 1:48:15.400 Forest Defender's semi permanent occupation of the Wallani Forest ended 1:48:15.560 --> 1:48:18.599 after that raid, but the fight was far from over. 1:48:19.400 --> 1:48:23.320 About a month after the January raid, local Atlantans put 1:48:23.320 --> 1:48:26.800 out a call for supporters across the country to converge 1:48:26.840 --> 1:48:30.639 in Atlanta in early March for a mass gathering known 1:48:30.720 --> 1:48:34.320 as a Week of Action. There have been four previous 1:48:34.320 --> 1:48:37.240 Weeks of Action, but this one, more than any other, 1:48:37.640 --> 1:48:40.720 would be crucial in reifying what the next stage of 1:48:40.800 --> 1:48:44.400 the movement would be. I started off this episode with 1:48:44.720 --> 1:48:48.400 the Sunday night police raid on the South River Music Festival, because, 1:48:48.560 --> 1:48:51.519 for better or worse, what happened on that evening set 1:48:51.560 --> 1:48:54.240 the proverbial stage for what the majority of this Week 1:48:54.280 --> 1:48:57.000 of Action would look like and how its effects would 1:48:57.040 --> 1:48:59.880 ripple out in the coming months. But before we get 1:48:59.880 --> 1:49:02.160 to the rest of the week, we first have to 1:49:02.240 --> 1:49:04.360 go back to the official start of this Week of 1:49:04.400 --> 1:49:07.559 Action to explain how we got here in the first place. 1:49:08.240 --> 1:49:10.640 To kick off the Week of Action, a rally was 1:49:10.680 --> 1:49:14.160 planned for the morning of Saturday, March fourth, at Gresham 1:49:14.200 --> 1:49:18.519 Park in southeast Atlanta. By the time I arrived around 1:49:18.560 --> 1:49:21.759 eleven am, hundreds of people were already in the park. 1:49:22.160 --> 1:49:26.320 Music was blaring from loudspeakers. Some kids and a few 1:49:26.320 --> 1:49:30.200 brave adults were running around throwing multicolored powdered paint at 1:49:30.200 --> 1:49:34.000 each other. It was a pretty festive time. Soon enough, 1:49:34.040 --> 1:49:37.400 it was time for things to begin. Matthew Johnson, the 1:49:37.439 --> 1:49:41.679 interim executive director of Beloved Commune, formerly kicked off the week. 1:49:42.120 --> 1:49:48.200 Hoday, let's get started, all right. 1:49:48.240 --> 1:49:51.040 I just want to make sure that everybody. 1:49:50.439 --> 1:49:51.719 Is in the right place. 1:49:54.080 --> 1:50:00.400 I came here to stop cop city. 1:50:01.680 --> 1:50:06.200 What did you all come here to do? What did 1:50:06.200 --> 1:50:10.280 we come to do? What are we coming to do? 1:50:12.360 --> 1:50:13.679 What have we come here to do? 1:50:16.280 --> 1:50:19.799 All right? I'm glad that everybody found the right address. 1:50:22.840 --> 1:50:25.719 Thank you everybody for joining us. 1:50:26.520 --> 1:50:28.200 It's about two years ago. 1:50:29.439 --> 1:50:32.840 In what was formerly known as Entrenchment Creek Park now 1:50:32.840 --> 1:50:40.760 known as Wolani People's Park, where a ragtag bunch of 1:50:40.840 --> 1:50:48.280 individuals gathered under a gazebo. That gazebo was illegally destroyed 1:50:49.160 --> 1:51:00.679 by Ryan Millsap and his henchman an attempt to break 1:51:00.720 --> 1:51:06.439 this movement. In an attempt to bury this movement, Yet 1:51:06.520 --> 1:51:10.800 every single time that they have tried to bury us. 1:51:11.400 --> 1:51:20.240 They have forgotten that we were seeds. Every time they 1:51:20.240 --> 1:51:23.120 thought that they backed us into a corner with their repression, 1:51:24.040 --> 1:51:27.839 we had more of you show up and support this movement, 1:51:28.120 --> 1:51:29.800 and we thank you so much. 1:51:34.760 --> 1:51:38.639 They have set every hurdle in the way of every 1:51:38.720 --> 1:51:42.439 day at lanterns to intimidate them and stop them from 1:51:42.520 --> 1:51:46.360 supporting this movement, and we still show up. 1:51:52.880 --> 1:51:55.800 We appreciate every single person that has come here to 1:51:55.840 --> 1:51:59.639 support us in spite of the terror that. 1:51:59.720 --> 1:52:02.400 They has tried to instill in us. 1:52:03.920 --> 1:52:07.280 We must be very careful and understand the gravity of 1:52:07.280 --> 1:52:10.840 the situation that we are in, especially after we've lost 1:52:10.840 --> 1:52:11.200 a friend. 1:52:12.080 --> 1:52:17.800 Okay, thank you for standing with us. 1:52:19.040 --> 1:52:22.040 And now there are many things that we do not 1:52:22.120 --> 1:52:24.920 agree on, But what did we all come here to do? 1:52:29.439 --> 1:52:33.640 So let's remember what got us this far was a 1:52:33.680 --> 1:52:41.759 diversity of tactics, and now it's. 1:52:41.640 --> 1:52:42.840 Time for us to double down. 1:52:44.640 --> 1:52:47.080 The crowd gathered was a pretty diverse mix of people 1:52:47.120 --> 1:52:51.400 from a variety of backgrounds, beliefs, and preferred tactics. On 1:52:51.560 --> 1:52:54.680 this is Saturday morning, everyone felt pretty united. Whether you 1:52:54.720 --> 1:52:57.479 were a kid running around with paint all over your body, 1:52:57.960 --> 1:53:00.320 or an anarchist dressed head to toe and camp though. 1:53:01.000 --> 1:53:04.280 Next up, somebody read a statement from the Muscogee elder 1:53:04.600 --> 1:53:05.880 Miko Chabon, Colonel. 1:53:06.479 --> 1:53:07.360 I'm here to read. 1:53:07.240 --> 1:53:12.439 A statement from my Miko, Miko Shabbon. 1:53:13.720 --> 1:53:14.719 Yeah, my name is Marty. 1:53:15.640 --> 1:53:19.000 I'm Muscoge on my father's side. On my mother's side, 1:53:19.080 --> 1:53:24.360 I'm Atham both Acmel and Thana, and my dad's also Filipino. 1:53:24.920 --> 1:53:29.040 Miko asked me to read this statement. Band Strijaio mart 1:53:29.600 --> 1:53:32.760 At this time, I would like to express my gratitude 1:53:32.840 --> 1:53:36.640 to all who have converged onto these ancestral territories of 1:53:36.760 --> 1:53:40.600 Muskogean ancestors and modern spiritual inhabitants of the earth that 1:53:40.680 --> 1:53:45.800 we now stand on today. We represent a vast society 1:53:45.880 --> 1:53:50.640 of peoples whose presence in the colonized named states of Georgia, Alabama, 1:53:50.800 --> 1:53:55.720 and Florida have existed for over thirteen thousand years. We 1:53:55.880 --> 1:53:59.120 represent a way of life that strove to minimize the 1:53:59.160 --> 1:54:03.320 harm that human can do to the earth, to other species, 1:54:03.360 --> 1:54:07.320 and to each other. Today, we continue this movement that 1:54:07.400 --> 1:54:10.080 begun many years ago, and we honor those who have 1:54:10.120 --> 1:54:14.240 taken footsteps to protect this forest and our relative who 1:54:14.280 --> 1:54:19.080 gave the greatest of sacrifices, just as ancestors existed on 1:54:19.160 --> 1:54:23.800 these very grounds and carried of faith and confidence in 1:54:23.840 --> 1:54:27.320 what our ancient ones passed on to us. May the 1:54:27.360 --> 1:54:30.840 hope of peaceful existence for all be achieved for many 1:54:30.880 --> 1:54:34.880 more centuries to come. This existence can only occur when 1:54:34.920 --> 1:54:38.920 we realize the sacredness of the Wailani Forest, that all 1:54:38.920 --> 1:54:42.200 that is natural on this earth, Mother. This type of 1:54:42.240 --> 1:54:45.600 existence can only occur when we realize that we all 1:54:45.600 --> 1:54:48.680 belong to this earth and she does not belong to us. 1:54:49.880 --> 1:54:52.600 This type of holy existence can only occur when we 1:54:52.680 --> 1:54:56.200 realize that no cop city can ever exist because more 1:54:56.240 --> 1:55:05.200 weapons only create more violence. Wo With these efforts that 1:55:05.280 --> 1:55:09.520 begin today, perhaps reason will prevail and we could create 1:55:09.560 --> 1:55:10.960 a future where all people. 1:55:10.720 --> 1:55:12.320 Have the right to exist. 1:55:13.040 --> 1:55:15.600 Today, May our dreams for this forest and the surrounding 1:55:15.600 --> 1:55:19.840 community come true. For those who can hear, let them hear. 1:55:20.920 --> 1:55:24.000 The next speaker was from Community Movement Builders, a local 1:55:24.000 --> 1:55:28.280 black collectives that focuses on combating and gentrification and police violence. 1:55:29.080 --> 1:55:32.680 I may be a little bit selfish, and my reason 1:55:32.720 --> 1:55:37.920 for being here I want to be free. 1:55:38.160 --> 1:55:41.360 I want my children to be free. I want my 1:55:41.440 --> 1:55:44.360 mother to be free. I want my father, my brothers 1:55:44.360 --> 1:55:46.880 and sisters to be free. And I don't want to 1:55:46.920 --> 1:55:50.160 have to live a life in ten years when my babies. 1:55:49.800 --> 1:55:51.600 My nieces, and my nephews come to me and. 1:55:51.640 --> 1:55:53.120 Ask, come, I see. 1:55:54.680 --> 1:55:57.520 Where were you What were you doing when they destroyed 1:55:57.560 --> 1:56:01.600 our clean water, destroyed our clean What happened? 1:56:02.000 --> 1:56:03.040 Why were you not around? 1:56:03.200 --> 1:56:05.520 What were you doing when when my baby's twenty ten 1:56:05.600 --> 1:56:07.840 years and they say, come, I see what were you 1:56:07.920 --> 1:56:10.360 doing when this country turned into a fascist dystopia? 1:56:10.840 --> 1:56:11.400 What were you doing? 1:56:11.400 --> 1:56:13.680 Where were you where you're around? I can't sit here. 1:56:13.640 --> 1:56:16.440 Best shit back and saying I just sat home and 1:56:16.480 --> 1:56:18.080 watched this whole well burn to hell. 1:56:22.040 --> 1:56:23.839 I don't believe in the power. 1:56:24.760 --> 1:56:29.040 I don't believe in the power of being periless. I 1:56:29.120 --> 1:56:35.880 believe in the power of the people. So I say 1:56:35.960 --> 1:56:39.520 to everyone today that during this week of action, I 1:56:39.560 --> 1:56:42.120 don't know where you will be. I don't know what 1:56:42.160 --> 1:56:42.640 you will be. 1:56:42.600 --> 1:56:45.800 Doing, but we standing behind you and were staying with you. 1:56:46.600 --> 1:56:48.200 And we want to show the city of Atlanta. 1:56:48.520 --> 1:56:50.880 We want to show Mary Dickens that he is not 1:56:51.000 --> 1:56:56.680 fit to rule and he does not runing city. 1:56:56.880 --> 1:56:59.440 You want to show them, said the ninety million. 1:56:59.160 --> 1:57:02.440 Dollars that they took to build this warfare training facility 1:57:02.840 --> 1:57:10.280 will not cross our communities, Wheo. And we also want 1:57:10.320 --> 1:57:14.160 to ShW the city of that letter that again we 1:57:14.200 --> 1:57:17.040 are ready to stop really surviving, to start living. 1:57:20.800 --> 1:57:24.680 Finally, our last person Reverend Leo'she is a Baptist minister 1:57:24.880 --> 1:57:28.200 part of the Stop Copp City Clergy coalition, which we'll 1:57:28.240 --> 1:57:30.480 talk a bit more about in the next episode. 1:57:31.280 --> 1:57:34.400 And I believe my faith compels me and convicts me 1:57:34.440 --> 1:57:38.560 that in this moment, the work that has been done 1:57:39.520 --> 1:57:42.560 and the work that is to come to defend this, 1:57:43.120 --> 1:57:47.960 our beloved family, this, our siblings, the earth. 1:57:48.360 --> 1:57:50.840 Is a holy and righteous work. 1:57:56.280 --> 1:57:59.720 It is a holy and righteous work that is grounded 1:58:00.760 --> 1:58:04.960 in a faithful rage. 1:58:03.920 --> 1:58:07.600 A rage which has been boiling in the human family's 1:58:07.640 --> 1:58:12.360 blood for centuries, and meets us care at this moment 1:58:12.480 --> 1:58:18.160 and asks us, what will you do to defend those 1:58:18.600 --> 1:58:19.760 who have no defense? 1:58:20.160 --> 1:58:23.920 What will you do to protect those who have no shelter? 1:58:24.640 --> 1:58:26.000 What will you do. 1:58:26.840 --> 1:58:31.520 When the time comes to decide on whose side you 1:58:31.560 --> 1:58:35.440 are on? Will you stand for oppression or will you 1:58:35.560 --> 1:58:47.960 stand for the liberation of all people? My friends, I 1:58:48.080 --> 1:58:51.680 come with some good news if that's okay. And the 1:58:51.720 --> 1:58:55.440 good news is that God stands on the side of 1:58:55.520 --> 1:58:56.200 the oppress. 1:58:58.760 --> 1:59:01.120 God stands on the side. 1:59:00.920 --> 1:59:06.320 Of the forest defenders, Law stands on the side of 1:59:06.360 --> 1:59:11.960 the most marginalized. And let us make no mistake that 1:59:12.040 --> 1:59:15.000 in our protests and in our rage, we. 1:59:14.880 --> 1:59:18.960 Also have to cry out and lament. 1:59:20.600 --> 1:59:23.880 We cannot be silent as do Dujita's blood cries out 1:59:23.920 --> 1:59:32.280 from the ground. We must honor a life that did 1:59:32.320 --> 1:59:34.720 not have to be lost. It did not have to 1:59:34.760 --> 1:59:39.920 be this way. Do not listen to anyone who tells 1:59:39.960 --> 1:59:41.640 you that there is. 1:59:41.520 --> 1:59:42.200 Not a better way. 1:59:42.240 --> 1:59:48.640 There is always a better way. Do I come with 1:59:48.800 --> 1:59:53.040 my faith and the conviction that in this work, in 1:59:53.120 --> 1:59:59.240 this moment, a prophetic imagination, a creative vision is needed 2:00:00.120 --> 2:00:01.720 in the wall that we. 2:00:01.600 --> 2:00:04.600 Want to see. I'm not here to wait for the 2:00:04.680 --> 2:00:05.440 Kingdom of God. 2:00:05.640 --> 2:00:09.560 I want the Kingdom of God right now. 2:00:10.240 --> 2:00:10.840 Right now. 2:00:13.680 --> 2:00:17.040 After the speeches were finished, it was announced that the crowd, 2:00:17.360 --> 2:00:21.080 now nearing a thousand strong, would gather up together and 2:00:21.200 --> 2:00:25.160 march to Wilani People's Park to retake the forest. As 2:00:25.240 --> 2:00:27.880 everyone was getting ready to leave, you could see the 2:00:28.000 --> 2:00:31.200 care and solidarity people had for each other. On full display. 2:00:31.720 --> 2:00:33.840 Bike scouts were checking to see if the path was clear. 2:00:34.240 --> 2:00:37.560 Volunteer street medics ready to help anyone in need. Water 2:00:37.600 --> 2:00:40.640 bottles are being handed out to keep everyone hydrated, while 2:00:40.680 --> 2:00:44.560 others autonomously coordinated rides for people unable to make. The 2:00:44.640 --> 2:00:50.240 walk looks like approximately one thousand people marching from Gresham 2:00:50.240 --> 2:00:52.520 Park to Alana People's Park on. 2:00:52.520 --> 2:00:53.200 The bike path. 2:00:54.440 --> 2:00:57.680 That's a I can't even see the end of where, 2:00:59.160 --> 2:01:01.960 of where the of where the people stop. It's a long, 2:01:02.200 --> 2:01:05.680 long stretch of people marching hundreds and hundreds of feet. 2:01:06.480 --> 2:01:08.240 There's some banners in front of the march. One of 2:01:08.280 --> 2:01:14.280 them reads disarm, defund, dismantle, no cop City. There's one 2:01:14.440 --> 2:01:18.520 of the sun shining over a pink sky with a 2:01:18.560 --> 2:01:23.960 little blue turtle and their shell is the earth massive 2:01:24.080 --> 2:01:30.240 like ten person banner that reads defend the Forest. The 2:01:30.400 --> 2:01:32.960 energy of the march remained high as people chanted to 2:01:32.960 --> 2:01:35.560 the beat of drums. I sat down with Matt from 2:01:35.600 --> 2:01:38.320 the Atlantic Community Press Collective towards the end of the 2:01:38.320 --> 2:01:41.080 week to talk about what we saw throughout this week 2:01:41.120 --> 2:01:41.520 of action. 2:01:42.120 --> 2:01:45.880 At one point, the entire crowd, seemingly the entire crowd 2:01:45.920 --> 2:01:48.320 was chanting if you build it we will burn it, 2:01:48.400 --> 2:01:50.040 which seems. 2:01:49.800 --> 2:01:51.080 Yeah, almost like a thousand people. 2:01:51.280 --> 2:02:03.800 Yeah, and it was being chanted, like you know, looking 2:02:03.840 --> 2:02:06.840 around the crowd, you saw everyone for the most part 2:02:06.840 --> 2:02:09.800 partaking in that. So that was a very interesting moment 2:02:09.920 --> 2:02:13.440 where it felt like there was that sort of solidarity 2:02:13.680 --> 2:02:17.400 amongst the varied groups that make up the Defend the 2:02:17.440 --> 2:02:18.400 Atlanta Forest movement. 2:02:18.920 --> 2:02:22.120 As the march went on, the path was getting increasingly forested. 2:02:22.680 --> 2:02:25.040 About two thirds of the way to Wallani People's Park, 2:02:25.320 --> 2:02:28.840 after turning a bend, the crowd noticed three deer frolicking 2:02:28.920 --> 2:02:39.320 alongside the march from further within the tree line. To 2:02:39.480 --> 2:02:42.360 quote the Atlanta Community Press Collectives right up of the 2:02:42.400 --> 2:02:46.640 march quote, the joyous mood shifted slightly as the protest 2:02:46.840 --> 2:02:50.200 closed in on the People's Park, passing over the remains 2:02:50.200 --> 2:02:53.600 of the bike path destroyed in December by film executive 2:02:53.680 --> 2:02:57.840 Ryan Millsap, activists were uncertain what they were walking into 2:02:58.400 --> 2:03:00.960 or whether the police would offer any resistance. 2:03:01.520 --> 2:03:03.200 Activists thought that there was going to be an issue. 2:03:03.360 --> 2:03:08.120 They were concerned about the police being in Willani People's Park. 2:03:08.200 --> 2:03:12.520 So about halfway we saw that stack of makeshift shields 2:03:12.880 --> 2:03:14.680 made out of plastic rain barrels. 2:03:15.280 --> 2:03:21.160 About two dozen of those five Gatlandrum shields just mysteriously 2:03:21.160 --> 2:03:24.680 showed up along the bike path. We are arriving at 2:03:24.680 --> 2:03:27.800 Willannee People's Park, no cops. 2:03:28.880 --> 2:03:33.240 But then when we got there there was no police whatsoever. 2:03:34.040 --> 2:03:37.600 From what the scanner people told us, there were police around, 2:03:37.840 --> 2:03:40.720 they were just kind of monitoring from afar, but no 2:03:40.800 --> 2:03:44.200 police ever entered the park. And it was I would 2:03:44.240 --> 2:03:48.280 say it was a really nice high point return to the. 2:03:48.160 --> 2:03:53.560 Forest, banners and shields moving around willane People's Park as 2:03:53.760 --> 2:03:56.520 hundreds and hundreds of more people still pour in from. 2:03:56.320 --> 2:03:56.960 The bike path. 2:03:58.360 --> 2:04:01.000 As the back of the march finally arrived, the crowd 2:04:01.080 --> 2:04:03.560 gathered up one more time to all chant out a 2:04:03.600 --> 2:04:05.840 promise in unison, I Will. 2:04:09.400 --> 2:04:19.560 I Will. 2:04:20.840 --> 2:04:23.600 One of the activists I interviewed during the Week of 2:04:23.640 --> 2:04:26.240 Action was Matthew Johnson, the person who kicked off the 2:04:26.320 --> 2:04:29.920 rally at Gresham Park. We talked about the methodology of 2:04:30.000 --> 2:04:32.880 starting off this Week of Action with this big inclusive 2:04:32.920 --> 2:04:35.480 march and how that may have helped achieve the goal 2:04:35.600 --> 2:04:36.760 of retaking the forest. 2:04:36.880 --> 2:04:37.840 That first day. 2:04:38.880 --> 2:04:44.240 We wanted to be sure that we would be able 2:04:44.320 --> 2:04:50.320 to reoccupy the park and what that would entail is 2:04:50.360 --> 2:04:54.560 having a wide swath of the larger public involved with 2:04:56.040 --> 2:05:01.440 any efforts to enter into the park. And so we 2:05:01.640 --> 2:05:06.200 had the rally Aggresham Park and there was a march 2:05:06.400 --> 2:05:13.400 planned from that part to Wolani People's Park. There is 2:05:13.600 --> 2:05:18.120 violence that people have become accustomed to when it is 2:05:18.240 --> 2:05:21.920 people on the political fringes. That's just where we're at 2:05:22.520 --> 2:05:26.160 in the political situation in Atlanta. However, when you have 2:05:27.160 --> 2:05:31.280 several people that you would consider more normal, liberal, progressive, etc. 2:05:32.320 --> 2:05:38.480 Like representatives from NGOs, non profit organizations, just normal people 2:05:38.480 --> 2:05:43.640 that also wanted to see the project shut down cop City, 2:05:44.840 --> 2:05:48.800 that's when you have the ability to move towards people 2:05:49.320 --> 2:05:52.400 that want to reoccupy, having the space to do that 2:05:52.720 --> 2:05:56.120 without seeing tons of police repression as we have seen 2:05:56.720 --> 2:05:57.879 in the movement recently. 2:06:02.240 --> 2:06:05.960 After reaching Wolaanni People's Park, many of those who arrived 2:06:06.000 --> 2:06:08.440 from out of town for this week of action, myself 2:06:08.440 --> 2:06:12.840 included stopped by the shrine for Tortigita just off of 2:06:12.840 --> 2:06:16.680 the tree line. People added new wildflowers and packs of 2:06:16.720 --> 2:06:19.640 fruit snacks. I'm going to walk over to the Torti 2:06:19.640 --> 2:06:23.480 Guita vigil site. Looks about the same as last time. 2:06:23.520 --> 2:06:28.200 I was here, many candles, little turtles, still a few 2:06:28.320 --> 2:06:32.640 fruit snacks. Although the vigil shrine was the same as 2:06:32.760 --> 2:06:35.680 last time I saw it, almost everything else about being 2:06:35.680 --> 2:06:38.400 in this place was different. When I was here last 2:06:38.440 --> 2:06:41.720 time in January, it was a dark place of grief. 2:06:42.280 --> 2:06:44.800 The forest was barren, with all of the trees in 2:06:44.840 --> 2:06:48.480 their bare winter state. But looking around the forest this 2:06:48.880 --> 2:06:51.960 first sunny day, you could see new life growing all 2:06:52.000 --> 2:06:55.600 around you. To quote the Community Press Collective again quote, 2:06:55.880 --> 2:06:59.080 small campsites begin to crop up across the landscape. Some 2:06:59.240 --> 2:07:02.760 nestled in sight on air spaces, others tucked into thickets, 2:07:02.840 --> 2:07:07.120 providing shelter and cooler climate for the new residence. The 2:07:07.160 --> 2:07:11.240 trees themselves reflected this next phase. Sprigs of new growth 2:07:11.320 --> 2:07:14.920 leaves appeared on the ends of barren branches. Small white 2:07:14.920 --> 2:07:18.240 flowers bloomed along the periphery of the parking lot. After 2:07:18.320 --> 2:07:23.440 months of desolation and death, life prevailed and spring arrives 2:07:23.520 --> 2:07:27.600 in the forest. I'm excited to get back into the 2:07:27.600 --> 2:07:32.320 forest because it is so hot, and get back in 2:07:32.360 --> 2:07:35.480 the forest I did. One of the events that happened 2:07:35.520 --> 2:07:39.120 almost daily throughout the week was tours of the eastern 2:07:39.240 --> 2:07:42.560 side of the Wallani Forest. The walks through the woods 2:07:42.600 --> 2:07:44.960 were led by Joe Perry, a member of the South 2:07:45.040 --> 2:07:48.640 River Forest Coalition. I was able to attend the first 2:07:48.680 --> 2:07:51.520 tour during the Week of Action and got consent to 2:07:51.600 --> 2:07:53.520 record some of the forest walk. 2:07:53.600 --> 2:07:57.960 All right, hey, y'all, welcome to the living Room. So 2:07:58.160 --> 2:08:00.960 named because it's it's a very vital and comfortable place 2:08:01.000 --> 2:08:03.680 to relax. This is where a lot of the meetings 2:08:04.080 --> 2:08:09.400 happened during the previous Week of Action. People gather and 2:08:10.080 --> 2:08:19.960 have different events here. Oftentimes it will be food available here, campfires, silverware. 2:08:22.200 --> 2:08:25.480 So it's also just a very very comfortable place to 2:08:25.520 --> 2:08:31.360 relax because it's in this pine forest and so not 2:08:31.400 --> 2:08:34.560 really any undergrowth and just super comfortable. It's a really 2:08:34.600 --> 2:08:38.720 good place to have meetings and just kind of get 2:08:38.720 --> 2:08:39.840 to know each other and. 2:08:41.880 --> 2:08:42.920 Establish some calm. 2:08:44.000 --> 2:08:45.960 We made our way from the living Room to the 2:08:46.040 --> 2:08:49.280 Grandmother Tree, a large oak that is estimated to be 2:08:49.280 --> 2:08:52.000 a few hundred years old. On our way to Ryan 2:08:52.040 --> 2:08:55.760 Millsaps proposed a site for so called Michelle Obama Park, 2:08:55.840 --> 2:08:58.960 which is currently a forty acre mount of dirt about 2:08:58.960 --> 2:09:02.280 thirty feet high. We walked past some old tents that 2:09:02.320 --> 2:09:06.600 were slashed apart during the January raid. Among the destroyed 2:09:06.600 --> 2:09:09.600 remains were little pink flowers growing out of the ground. 2:09:10.480 --> 2:09:14.520 Next we headed to Entrenchment Creek. Joe Perry explained some 2:09:14.560 --> 2:09:18.040 of the background regarding the environmental state of the watershed 2:09:18.400 --> 2:09:20.920 and how protecting the forest is a crucial step in 2:09:20.960 --> 2:09:23.440 the process of helping the land heal itself. 2:09:24.560 --> 2:09:28.280 I got involved with a group called the South River 2:09:28.320 --> 2:09:32.400 Forest Coalition. We are trying to help further the vision 2:09:32.600 --> 2:09:35.800 of the South River Forest that Ryan Gravelle and the 2:09:35.880 --> 2:09:40.440 Nature Conservancy came up with to try to interweave about 2:09:40.480 --> 2:09:45.200 thirty five hundred acres of forest with the other businesses 2:09:45.240 --> 2:09:48.560 and homes and lands around this area that are in 2:09:48.600 --> 2:09:52.520 the watershed of the South River Forest. And Entrenchment Creek, 2:09:52.680 --> 2:09:56.120 which we will see on this tour, is the main 2:09:56.200 --> 2:09:59.320 tributary to the South River. The South River is the 2:09:59.360 --> 2:10:03.200 fourth most dangered river in this country and trenchmck Creek 2:10:03.280 --> 2:10:08.000 is one of the most polluted creeks in this county. 2:10:08.560 --> 2:10:11.960 And so that is what we're trying to protect. And 2:10:12.000 --> 2:10:14.920 in order to protect a river and a creek and 2:10:14.960 --> 2:10:17.600 a watershed, you have to protect the forest that's around it. 2:10:18.360 --> 2:10:21.720 I've been exploring these woods for the last decade and 2:10:22.040 --> 2:10:25.040 leading tours and talking to people about it, trying to 2:10:25.080 --> 2:10:27.600 explain what's going on with a lawsuit, trying to explain 2:10:27.640 --> 2:10:30.040 what's going on, the difference between in Trenchmth Creek Park 2:10:30.080 --> 2:10:33.760 and you know, the prison farm and the acreage and 2:10:33.800 --> 2:10:35.880 all these other things and all that stuff. It's just 2:10:36.040 --> 2:10:39.440 like it's just gears turning in your head because when 2:10:39.480 --> 2:10:41.560 you come out here and enjoy this, I mean, this 2:10:41.640 --> 2:10:43.480 is really what it's all about. This is all we 2:10:43.560 --> 2:10:46.360 have to do to convince people that this is worth 2:10:46.400 --> 2:10:49.160 saving it. Just bring you out here and let you 2:10:49.200 --> 2:10:50.200 appreciate it. 2:10:50.280 --> 2:10:54.280 As masses of people converged at Wallani People's Park Saturday afternoon, 2:10:54.840 --> 2:10:57.880 almost immediately a whole bunch of pop up infrastructure was 2:10:57.960 --> 2:11:01.000 set up to facilitate an encampment in the woods once again, 2:11:01.680 --> 2:11:03.600 really for the first time in any kind of large 2:11:03.600 --> 2:11:08.760 capacity since January and even December. The December raids decimated 2:11:08.920 --> 2:11:12.160 much of the camp infrastructure, which still had not been 2:11:12.200 --> 2:11:16.640 rebuilt since then. But upon arriving from Gresham Park on Saturday, 2:11:17.000 --> 2:11:19.680 both first time of visitors to the Wallani Forest and 2:11:19.880 --> 2:11:23.720 seasoned forest defenders worked together to rebuild a lot of 2:11:23.760 --> 2:11:26.920 that infrastructure to support camp life for the next week. 2:11:27.360 --> 2:11:28.960 One of the things that we saw on the march 2:11:29.560 --> 2:11:33.840 in was like eight cinder blocks right at the entrance 2:11:33.880 --> 2:11:37.200 to the living room, and then you and I went 2:11:37.240 --> 2:11:40.000 into the living room, we saw these huge water tanks. 2:11:40.000 --> 2:11:43.280 So later they moved those water tanks to those those 2:11:43.320 --> 2:11:47.320 cinder blocks, and that has become or a watering point 2:11:47.360 --> 2:11:50.800 for everyone. So like twice a day a truck comes 2:11:51.360 --> 2:11:53.480 with a water tank on the back and then they 2:11:53.600 --> 2:11:57.000 go through the arduous process of filling that water so 2:11:57.040 --> 2:12:01.120 that everybody in camp can have water. They had this 2:12:01.200 --> 2:12:04.880 system that was seemingly self organized. And then that first 2:12:04.960 --> 2:12:07.640 day we were sitting in the parking lot and it 2:12:07.680 --> 2:12:09.560 seemed like every time you turn around there was like 2:12:09.600 --> 2:12:15.360 a different train of people carrying supplies into the living room. 2:12:15.800 --> 2:12:20.960 The second day, there was a woman who was shoveling 2:12:21.160 --> 2:12:25.920 gravel from the torn up concrete on the side, and 2:12:25.960 --> 2:12:28.600 she was filling all of the random holes in the 2:12:28.640 --> 2:12:32.440 ground so that carts could go up them. And I 2:12:32.920 --> 2:12:35.680 was like, you know, did somebody assign this to you? 2:12:35.760 --> 2:12:38.320 She's like, no, I saw this. It just needed to 2:12:38.320 --> 2:12:40.520 be done, and I did it. And that was very 2:12:40.600 --> 2:12:44.960 much the entire vibe of those first I would say 2:12:44.960 --> 2:12:47.440 twenty four hours was okay, what do we need to 2:12:47.480 --> 2:12:48.680 do to get this thing running? 2:12:49.400 --> 2:12:54.320 As encampments were being established, simultaneously, infrastructure for the South 2:12:54.440 --> 2:12:57.960 River Music Festival was being erected in the adjacent radio 2:12:58.080 --> 2:13:01.600 control field. Within a short amount of time, a full 2:13:01.640 --> 2:13:06.360 stage was constructed, complete with lights and speakers, lining the 2:13:06.400 --> 2:13:09.960 sides of the field, where various tables and booths. One 2:13:10.000 --> 2:13:13.000 side featured a large variety of refreshments, as well as 2:13:13.000 --> 2:13:15.680 a medic tent, and the other side was home to 2:13:15.960 --> 2:13:19.840 free hot food and freshly grilled burgers and hot dogs. 2:13:19.880 --> 2:13:22.560 Next to the food were a few tables distributing an 2:13:22.680 --> 2:13:26.880 array of radical literature posters and stickers. What was your 2:13:26.880 --> 2:13:28.320 favorite stuff at the music FESTE tu? 2:13:28.680 --> 2:13:31.600 Well, there was an arepa table, and I'm very food motivated. 2:13:31.600 --> 2:13:34.880 So the arapas were delicious, and we had walked a 2:13:34.920 --> 2:13:38.280 bunch that day, so yeah, I needed sustenance. And then 2:13:39.280 --> 2:13:41.240 there was the burger table as well, but we I 2:13:41.280 --> 2:13:43.400 don't think. I don't know if you got a burger, 2:13:43.440 --> 2:13:44.480 but I did not get a burger. 2:13:44.600 --> 2:13:46.440 I got I got one burger, but they were out 2:13:46.440 --> 2:13:48.360 of buns when I got a burger, so I had 2:13:48.360 --> 2:13:52.600 a lettuce burger, and then soon after they they got 2:13:52.600 --> 2:13:53.440 the buns. 2:13:53.120 --> 2:13:54.839 Back, and I was kind of kind of bummed. 2:13:55.280 --> 2:13:58.080 Yeah, I did not, Well, at least you got something, 2:13:58.680 --> 2:13:59.600 but I had the arapis. 2:13:59.600 --> 2:14:02.440 So I mean stundth To be fair, hundreds of people 2:14:02.480 --> 2:14:05.040 were they've fed for They've said five hundred people, you know, 2:14:05.280 --> 2:14:08.200 And at one point they made announcement that like they 2:14:08.240 --> 2:14:10.360 needed to do another food run just to go get 2:14:10.400 --> 2:14:14.200 more more food, and like a bunch of people volunteered. 2:14:13.640 --> 2:14:15.520 And you know, only I think two or three went 2:14:15.720 --> 2:14:17.480 down to Walmart to get a bunch of more burgers 2:14:17.480 --> 2:14:19.720 and hot dogs. And it was just a really cool moment. 2:14:19.720 --> 2:14:21.760 And so I think by the end the end of 2:14:21.800 --> 2:14:23.440 the night when I was there, they were about five 2:14:23.480 --> 2:14:27.320 hundred people just enjoying the music and looking at the sky. 2:14:27.440 --> 2:14:29.720 It was just an immaculate vibe. There was a little 2:14:29.840 --> 2:14:33.560 fire pick off to the side. And yeah, you talked 2:14:33.560 --> 2:14:35.480 about the setting up the stage. You know, I didn't 2:14:35.520 --> 2:14:39.560 know what to expect walking in there, was not expecting 2:14:40.520 --> 2:14:43.080 quite that much of a production. I wasn't expecting a 2:14:43.240 --> 2:14:47.040 light fledged stage with lights all around sort of in 2:14:47.080 --> 2:14:50.160 this really like the lighting worked really well for it's 2:14:50.720 --> 2:14:53.440 it backdropped the surrounding for it like. 2:14:53.480 --> 2:14:54.960 Nice like green and purple lighting. 2:14:55.040 --> 2:14:55.680 Yeah, it was, it was. 2:14:55.960 --> 2:14:56.440 It was great. 2:14:56.760 --> 2:14:59.440 And then they had that green room tent back there, 2:14:59.480 --> 2:15:01.400 and then they had a separate ten for equipment. Like 2:15:01.800 --> 2:15:05.960 it was a very well thought out festival in the 2:15:05.960 --> 2:15:06.640 middle of nowhere. 2:15:07.040 --> 2:15:10.480 The South River Music Festival began early Saturday evening at 2:15:10.520 --> 2:15:13.560 five point thirty, kicking off two days of local musical 2:15:13.680 --> 2:15:17.880 artists playing shows free of charge. Before the lineup of 2:15:17.920 --> 2:15:21.320 live music began, someone on stage read out a small 2:15:21.360 --> 2:15:25.000 flyer that was being passed around, detailing the reasoning for 2:15:25.080 --> 2:15:28.200 the festival and its place within the fight to defend 2:15:28.200 --> 2:15:31.760 the forest. And I got permission to share that reading. 2:15:32.440 --> 2:15:36.160 In the limitless possibilities of the cosmos, in the mad 2:15:36.280 --> 2:15:40.640 flocks of events, reactions, and anomalies of the past twelve 2:15:40.760 --> 2:15:44.440 billion years since the birth of our universe, it's a 2:15:44.520 --> 2:15:49.560 statistical impossibility that we would be here now, But here 2:15:49.600 --> 2:15:50.520 we are alive. 2:15:50.600 --> 2:15:51.000 Together. 2:15:51.720 --> 2:15:56.000 Such incredible circumstances have brought us here, among them the 2:15:56.080 --> 2:15:59.800 incredible and innovative resistance to defend this place. 2:15:59.800 --> 2:16:03.160 For becoming a police training compound. 2:16:06.240 --> 2:16:07.600 Magic rooms. 2:16:08.840 --> 2:16:12.040 This resistance, which brings us together the most cunning and 2:16:12.080 --> 2:16:16.920 resilient techniques of the radical environmentalist movement with the incredible 2:16:16.960 --> 2:16:20.600 courage and ferocity of the George Floyd Uprising, is not 2:16:20.720 --> 2:16:22.320 just about a small piece of land. 2:16:22.840 --> 2:16:24.440 It's not about being fought. 2:16:24.200 --> 2:16:27.360 Between police and their goons on one hand and some 2:16:27.440 --> 2:16:30.640 activists and their friends on the other. We are witnessing 2:16:30.680 --> 2:16:33.920 a collision of two competing ideas of happiness, of. 2:16:33.959 --> 2:16:35.160 Life, of the future. 2:16:38.160 --> 2:16:41.640 In this competition, experiments with new types of Greek culture 2:16:41.680 --> 2:16:43.039 play a decisive role. 2:16:43.600 --> 2:16:45.640 This movement cannot be reduced. 2:16:45.240 --> 2:16:48.840 To what is happening in city hall, on social media, 2:16:49.040 --> 2:16:53.240 or in meetings. For two years we have descended on 2:16:53.280 --> 2:16:56.440 these woods, finding refuge from the high rents and predatory 2:16:56.440 --> 2:17:00.200 bookings fees of the corporate venues and bars, and not 2:17:00.360 --> 2:17:04.760 come here to redecorate the actions of some activists as allies, 2:17:04.879 --> 2:17:07.760 lending our service to the drab and loveless militancy of 2:17:07.800 --> 2:17:11.760 something we do not otherwise care about. As the gentrification 2:17:11.920 --> 2:17:15.920 of Atlanta intensifies, more and more diy venues and clubs 2:17:16.160 --> 2:17:19.039 are shutdown, and free spaces to play shows and dance 2:17:19.080 --> 2:17:22.440 are push further and further from the city center. Our 2:17:22.480 --> 2:17:25.480 free time is pinched as rents increase and traffic keeps 2:17:25.520 --> 2:17:26.920 us waiting longer and longer. 2:17:27.480 --> 2:17:32.720 That is going to change. 2:17:32.920 --> 2:17:35.840 Music is not like other forms of human culture. It 2:17:35.920 --> 2:17:40.680 is different from painting, drawing, poetry, literature, or film art. 2:17:40.760 --> 2:17:45.640 Politics and symbolic culture in general represent the passions conjuring 2:17:45.720 --> 2:17:49.000 strong feelings from the shadows of reality, pulling them from 2:17:49.000 --> 2:17:52.720 the depths of the soul or the back of consciousness. Music, 2:17:52.840 --> 2:17:56.080 on the other hand, is perhaps the only form of 2:17:56.160 --> 2:18:01.360 human creativity that contacts those feelings without any media. Music 2:18:01.480 --> 2:18:06.240 is physics, music is reality. The system we live in 2:18:06.400 --> 2:18:11.599 is at war with reality. The system is destroying forests, rivers, mountaintops, 2:18:11.600 --> 2:18:15.920 and oceans. It's destroying our imaginations, our bodies, and our world. 2:18:16.520 --> 2:18:19.760 To defend ourselves from certain annihilation, it will not be 2:18:19.800 --> 2:18:22.200 sufficient to strike the right notes at the right time. 2:18:23.680 --> 2:18:25.800 We will have to make recourse to other means, to 2:18:25.879 --> 2:18:30.640 more direct means, and that is why we're all here. 2:18:33.040 --> 2:18:36.600 The defend the Atlanta Forest Revolution will be economic, political, 2:18:36.720 --> 2:18:39.600 as well as cultural. We're building a new era of 2:18:39.680 --> 2:18:42.360 human history where music will be at the steering wheel. 2:18:42.920 --> 2:18:45.720 What is needed cannot be taught without first being discovered. 2:18:46.120 --> 2:18:49.600 We are those adventurers plunging the depths of the cosmos 2:18:49.640 --> 2:18:52.760 for the contours and textures of a free existence, of 2:18:52.800 --> 2:18:56.160 a life without dead time. When it is necessary, we 2:18:56.160 --> 2:18:58.800 will defend ourselves by the means appropriate to the task. 2:18:59.360 --> 2:19:00.560 Not with words. It's not with. 2:19:00.560 --> 2:19:05.320 Denunciations, but with actions, real and concrete, actions as real 2:19:05.360 --> 2:19:09.920 as the sounds, as real as reality. 2:19:11.040 --> 2:19:13.200 I'm so lucky to be here with y'all. Thank you. 2:19:14.480 --> 2:19:17.120 Across the middle of the field, hundreds of people laid 2:19:17.120 --> 2:19:21.520 out blankets on the grass and dirt. Concertgoers alternated between 2:19:21.520 --> 2:19:24.360 a dancing in front of the stage and relaxing and 2:19:24.400 --> 2:19:28.440 eating food on picnic blankets. As the night approached, over 2:19:28.480 --> 2:19:31.440 a thousand people were spread out across the RC field. 2:19:32.000 --> 2:19:34.440 Amoshe pit had formed directly in front of the stage. 2:19:35.000 --> 2:19:39.520 Musicians led stop Kopcity chants, and between sets, people spoke 2:19:39.560 --> 2:19:40.800 on mic about the movement. 2:19:41.640 --> 2:19:46.959 Everybody say stop cop City, Stop cop City. 2:19:49.000 --> 2:19:50.039 That's right, that's right. 2:19:50.360 --> 2:19:53.920 Saturday Night was headlined by local Atlanta rapper Zach Fox. 2:19:54.600 --> 2:19:57.160 Zach told stories about how he and his friends used 2:19:57.200 --> 2:19:59.879 to hang out in this very forest as teenagers. 2:20:00.400 --> 2:20:03.480 All Right, y'all, man, hey, I'm gonna say this. Fuck 2:20:03.520 --> 2:20:08.560 the mayor. I'm gonna say this, Fuck the mayor, and 2:20:09.120 --> 2:20:13.880 fuck all this shit. And I love everybody for coming 2:20:13.920 --> 2:20:14.960 out to support this ship. 2:20:15.040 --> 2:20:16.439 Do you're really fucking. 2:20:20.440 --> 2:20:22.160 When I tell you me, Archie. 2:20:22.240 --> 2:20:24.560 Everybody used to walk back in these woods and drink 2:20:24.600 --> 2:20:29.800 red stripes and and walk our dogs and shoot guns 2:20:29.879 --> 2:20:33.600 and shit. So I really don't want to see this 2:20:33.640 --> 2:20:36.800 shit happen. And I really appreciate alli y'all for coming 2:20:36.800 --> 2:20:37.480 out to do this shit. 2:20:38.920 --> 2:20:42.400 Fuck a cop City Chance erupted pretty regularly throughout the night. 2:20:43.080 --> 2:20:44.520 And this is all I'm gonna tell the police. This 2:20:44.560 --> 2:20:46.080 is all I'm gonna tell the police. Okay, hold on, 2:20:46.240 --> 2:20:47.560 let me make sure I push the right button. 2:20:54.840 --> 2:20:59.480 Say that ship. Let's go fucking right it fucking right 2:20:59.560 --> 2:21:06.560 it fucking running, fucking running, fucking running, fucking run it, 2:21:07.480 --> 2:21:08.320 fucking run it. 2:21:12.360 --> 2:21:12.840 Atlanta. 2:21:13.600 --> 2:21:20.600 I love y'all so much, man, Hell yeah, hey, man, 2:21:22.200 --> 2:21:23.320 let me say something real quick. 2:21:23.440 --> 2:21:24.800 Let me say something real quick before I get the 2:21:24.800 --> 2:21:26.520 fuck out, savee. Let my hummies right this shit. 2:21:26.640 --> 2:21:28.520 I love y'all so much for supporting this shit. 2:21:29.000 --> 2:21:29.200 I have. 2:21:29.920 --> 2:21:30.440 Let me tell you. 2:21:30.640 --> 2:21:31.440 Let me tell you something. 2:21:31.959 --> 2:21:32.560 I'm thirty two. 2:21:32.640 --> 2:21:34.600 A lot of niggas start getting old and they lose. 2:21:34.440 --> 2:21:35.920 Faith in the youth. I got so much faith in 2:21:36.000 --> 2:21:37.480 everybody in this motherfucking bitch. 2:21:41.640 --> 2:21:44.360 Wherever y'all going, I'm going, I truly believe that y'all 2:21:44.360 --> 2:21:45.640 gonna save this motherfucking world. 2:21:45.800 --> 2:21:46.640 So I'm with y'all. 2:21:47.920 --> 2:21:55.080 Fuck Cop City, fuck cops in general, fuck twelve, fuck authoritarianism, 2:21:55.200 --> 2:21:56.920 fuck capitalism, fuck all that bullshit. 2:21:56.920 --> 2:21:59.880 I'm with y'all to the end. So I motherfucking die. 2:22:03.040 --> 2:22:04.880 So let me hear y'all say this one more time. 2:22:05.200 --> 2:22:09.200 Start bud Wow, Start Bob Wow. 2:22:10.520 --> 2:22:14.400 Start bob whow stiite Bob Wow. 2:22:15.560 --> 2:22:18.760 Besides the domestic terrorism banner I mentioned in the opening 2:22:18.800 --> 2:22:22.040 of this episode, another banner was hung up beside the 2:22:22.080 --> 2:22:27.160 stage featuring turtles and butterflies, along with the Asada Shakur quote. 2:22:27.680 --> 2:22:30.440 Love is our sword, truth is our compass. 2:22:32.120 --> 2:22:34.360 This kind of music is about the naty of nature, 2:22:35.520 --> 2:22:39.000 filling the trees, feeling the crowd filling each other. 2:22:40.680 --> 2:22:43.840 Look right up there, look at the fucking moon. 2:22:47.560 --> 2:22:51.480 To quote a communicate from the Sonic Defense Committee quote, 2:22:51.720 --> 2:22:54.800 at this point, it was impossible to imagine a meaningful 2:22:54.879 --> 2:22:58.800 police intervention. The crowd was made up of elderly people, 2:22:59.000 --> 2:23:04.879 university students, rappers, indigenous activists, toddlers and newborns, skaters, people 2:23:05.000 --> 2:23:09.320 of all imaginable Atlanta demographics. The night ended around three 2:23:09.480 --> 2:23:12.760 thirty am to sounds of house techno and drum and 2:23:12.800 --> 2:23:14.520 bass without any notable incident. 2:23:14.800 --> 2:23:15.279 Unquote. 2:23:16.240 --> 2:23:18.960 Tents were set up all over the eastern side of 2:23:19.040 --> 2:23:22.000 the forest, with many people choosing to sleep under the 2:23:22.040 --> 2:23:25.119 tree canopy between the living room and the music festival 2:23:25.240 --> 2:23:28.240 for that first night. As the night went on, people 2:23:28.400 --> 2:23:32.320 carefully tended small campfires both in the festival field and 2:23:32.560 --> 2:23:34.680 in the middle of the living room. To quote the 2:23:34.680 --> 2:23:38.600 press collective, the movement was once again living in joyous 2:23:38.640 --> 2:23:43.039 harmony with the forest it had promised to protect. Tomorrow's 2:23:43.080 --> 2:23:46.200 episode will cover day two of the music festival, the 2:23:46.360 --> 2:23:50.360 frankly unprecedented direct action that took place Sunday afternoon, and 2:23:50.600 --> 2:23:53.640 a more detailed look at the police raid that happened 2:23:53.760 --> 2:23:59.600 later that evening. See You on the other Side. Music 2:23:59.640 --> 2:24:12.600 Festival audio courtesy of Unicorn Riot Welcome back to it 2:24:12.680 --> 2:24:15.720 could happen here. This is part two of my mini 2:24:15.840 --> 2:24:18.920 series detailing the March Week of Action to defend the 2:24:18.920 --> 2:24:23.240 Atlanta Forest and stop Coop City. Last episode, we covered 2:24:23.320 --> 2:24:26.280 the Week of Action kickoff rally at Gresham Park and 2:24:26.720 --> 2:24:30.080 Day one of the South River Music Festival. Will be 2:24:30.160 --> 2:24:33.040 picking up basically right where we left off, starting with 2:24:33.160 --> 2:24:36.480 my conversation with Matt from the Atlanta Community Press Collective. 2:24:37.000 --> 2:24:39.320 Saturday night, there was music going on to like four am. 2:24:39.560 --> 2:24:42.280 It was a long night, but like a really good night. 2:24:43.160 --> 2:24:44.080 What was your Sunday? 2:24:44.200 --> 2:24:48.480 Like Sunday, You know, Sunday started off really great, like 2:24:49.320 --> 2:24:51.280 walking in the first thing you see when you walked 2:24:51.320 --> 2:24:55.080 back onto the festival grounds was this amazing bouncy house 2:24:55.200 --> 2:24:58.760 that they had written some guidelines up there that it 2:24:58.920 --> 2:25:02.160 did seem like everyone fall foh you could fit six adults, 2:25:02.200 --> 2:25:05.600 which like for a bouncy house, that's pretty large. 2:25:05.760 --> 2:25:07.120 It was a big bouncy house. 2:25:07.600 --> 2:25:09.160 It was like six of dollars through twelve kids or 2:25:09.200 --> 2:25:13.200 something like that. So, yeah, you see this bouncy house, 2:25:13.240 --> 2:25:15.720 and like when you see that the first thing, but 2:25:15.959 --> 2:25:20.880 I think that visually sets the entire expectation, Like that 2:25:21.360 --> 2:25:23.480 is a statement in and of itself of like what 2:25:24.040 --> 2:25:25.600 they were going for that first. 2:25:25.480 --> 2:25:29.039 Day Day two of the music festival started around noon. 2:25:29.680 --> 2:25:31.600 Right in the middle of the rc field was this 2:25:31.959 --> 2:25:35.920 large rainbow colored bouncy castle adorned with a stop Copcity banner. 2:25:36.520 --> 2:25:39.480 People slowly trickled in all over the course of the afternoon, 2:25:39.800 --> 2:25:42.600 culminating in about one thousand people scattered across the field 2:25:42.680 --> 2:25:46.279 by four pm. Just like the night before, people enjoyed 2:25:46.360 --> 2:25:50.160 free food, Defend the Forest related literature, and a bustling 2:25:50.240 --> 2:25:53.960 refreshment booth while listening to live music. People played a 2:25:54.000 --> 2:25:57.200 soccer and frisbee in the open field, while others were 2:25:57.280 --> 2:26:00.400 continuing to build camp infrastructure in the forest. 2:26:01.080 --> 2:26:03.960 So I think the bousing castle set the tone and 2:26:04.040 --> 2:26:07.120 everything was really lighthearted for the first few hours. I 2:26:07.200 --> 2:26:13.120 spent most of that day walking around watching this like 2:26:13.320 --> 2:26:16.080 autonomous infrastructure in the forest kind of pop up on 2:26:16.200 --> 2:26:19.400 its own. It's like everywhere I went, you know, to 2:26:19.480 --> 2:26:23.320 the parking lot, you saw trains of people carrying like 2:26:24.040 --> 2:26:28.760 water and supplies deep into the forest. Everyone seemed to 2:26:28.840 --> 2:26:30.680 just be trying to find a place to fit in 2:26:31.000 --> 2:26:34.200 and to work and to really participate in the Week 2:26:34.240 --> 2:26:34.560 of Action. 2:26:35.400 --> 2:26:38.400 As the day went on, rumors started to circulate about 2:26:38.480 --> 2:26:43.240 inaction happening Later that afternoon, word quickly spread that people 2:26:43.240 --> 2:26:46.360 would meet up in the RC field at five pm. 2:26:47.120 --> 2:26:50.720 Eventually a flyer was posted to social media, and sure enough, 2:26:50.879 --> 2:26:53.680 come five o'clock, a group of a few hundred people 2:26:53.959 --> 2:26:57.640 made up of individuals and affinity groups, gathered behind the 2:26:57.720 --> 2:27:00.960 bouncy castle, most of whom were masked up and a 2:27:01.080 --> 2:27:04.920 donning some form of black block or camo block. A 2:27:05.000 --> 2:27:08.080 communicating posted later on the website scenes dot no blogs 2:27:08.080 --> 2:27:11.640 dot org described the feeling on the ground quote, the 2:27:11.760 --> 2:27:16.720 air was tense, no visible rage, just a stealed determination. 2:27:17.480 --> 2:27:19.840 No one knew what was coming next, but we knew 2:27:19.920 --> 2:27:20.880 it was something big. 2:27:21.840 --> 2:27:23.920 That was that was quite the visual like this, this 2:27:24.240 --> 2:27:26.960 this crowd of camo and black block, and like some 2:27:27.120 --> 2:27:30.280 people wearing normal clothes who I don't think quite knew 2:27:30.280 --> 2:27:33.880 what they were about to do next to this massive 2:27:34.040 --> 2:27:39.440 bouncy castle. And I think that that the visual of 2:27:39.520 --> 2:27:43.760 it kind of represents like two aspects of the movement, 2:27:43.920 --> 2:27:47.680 right like the militant aspect and the joyful aspect, and 2:27:47.760 --> 2:27:52.160 I think they're both very central to to what you know, 2:27:52.360 --> 2:27:53.040 the movement is. 2:27:53.280 --> 2:27:56.680 Yeah, it's a pretty good encapsulation of the diversity present 2:27:57.520 --> 2:27:59.920 around the defend the forest and stop cup City move. 2:28:00.840 --> 2:28:04.680 There's a few hundred people in camera block walking down 2:28:04.760 --> 2:28:08.160 I believe is a constitution A lot of people just 2:28:08.440 --> 2:28:17.200 in black block, mix of legal observers here, police shoppers 2:28:17.280 --> 2:28:26.080 overhead are Currently people are marching west in the direction 2:28:27.080 --> 2:28:31.040 of the old Atlanta Prison Farm, the slate of the 2:28:31.160 --> 2:28:33.560 forest that cop City is. 2:28:34.000 --> 2:28:35.240 Planned to be built on. 2:28:35.879 --> 2:28:38.720 There has not really been a mass convergence of people 2:28:39.120 --> 2:28:43.400 like this in the forest in a long long time. 2:28:43.560 --> 2:28:45.920 I cannot remember the last time there was anything quite 2:28:46.000 --> 2:28:48.280 like this. This is definitely the biggest group of people 2:28:48.320 --> 2:28:52.279 who's ever like converged on marching on the old Atlanta 2:28:52.959 --> 2:28:57.680 Prison Farm area. Last year, people were occupying and living 2:28:57.720 --> 2:28:59.959 in the forest in that side. Since there are pres 2:29:00.240 --> 2:29:03.840 has intensified, more people have moved over across on the 2:29:03.920 --> 2:29:06.640 other side of Intrenchment Creek Park, on a slate of 2:29:06.720 --> 2:29:10.960 land closer to Willane People's Park and the section that 2:29:11.280 --> 2:29:15.200 Lyon MILSAP is wanting to develop. Definitely never seen this 2:29:15.320 --> 2:29:20.360 many people marching like this near the forest in a 2:29:21.040 --> 2:29:24.800 much more militant seeming group of the crowd, as opposed 2:29:24.840 --> 2:29:28.560 to Saturday's first march, which was like a thousand people 2:29:29.400 --> 2:29:33.000 of various types. Everyone here looks much more willing to 2:29:33.520 --> 2:29:38.080 throw down. As the group, around three hundred strong, left 2:29:38.120 --> 2:29:42.160 the RC field, they calmly marched west down Constitution Road 2:29:42.440 --> 2:29:46.280 toward the power line cut, accompanied overhead by a police 2:29:46.360 --> 2:29:48.560 chopper equipped with a thermal camera. 2:29:49.640 --> 2:29:50.640 Popter's still overhead. 2:29:50.640 --> 2:29:51.400 I'm sure you can hear it. 2:29:53.440 --> 2:29:56.039 To get a clear picture of what actually happened that day. 2:29:56.440 --> 2:29:59.960 It's useful to understand the geography of the Wilaanni Forest, 2:30:00.680 --> 2:30:03.040 especially since the police have tried to make it sound 2:30:03.160 --> 2:30:06.000 like the individuals who were arrested later that night were 2:30:06.200 --> 2:30:09.080 apprehended at the scene of the crime, which is not 2:30:09.280 --> 2:30:10.080 actually the case. 2:30:10.560 --> 2:30:13.520 The entire area that the defenders are trying to defend, 2:30:13.560 --> 2:30:18.000 the entire Weilani Forest, the contiguous part of it, is 2:30:18.440 --> 2:30:22.240 surrounded in sort of a triangle by three different roads, 2:30:22.280 --> 2:30:26.560 Constitution Key and Bouldercrest. All the way to the east 2:30:26.720 --> 2:30:30.680 is Wilani People's Park, and like just to the west 2:30:30.720 --> 2:30:33.640 of that is the RC Field where the music festival 2:30:33.720 --> 2:30:37.120 was happening, where the bouncy castle is and where our 2:30:37.600 --> 2:30:40.880 group that we're following here starts to gather. And then 2:30:41.480 --> 2:30:46.680 all the way to the west is the proposed site 2:30:46.720 --> 2:30:50.720 of copp City along Key Road. So to get there 2:30:51.360 --> 2:30:55.640 through the forest takes a good thirty forty five minutes 2:30:56.680 --> 2:30:58.320 to get there. You know, if you're on the road, 2:30:58.440 --> 2:31:00.960 is still like a twenty five thirty minute walk. It 2:31:01.360 --> 2:31:07.200 is not like anywhere close on foot. No, it's from 2:31:07.240 --> 2:31:07.960 point A to point B. 2:31:08.120 --> 2:31:09.720 And if you're crossing through those you also have to 2:31:09.840 --> 2:31:13.359 like jump over Entrenchment Creek, which is not the easiest 2:31:13.520 --> 2:31:14.440 creek to cross over. 2:31:15.080 --> 2:31:17.360 It's not the easiest and it's not the cleanest. It's 2:31:17.400 --> 2:31:18.200 something you want to step in. 2:31:18.840 --> 2:31:21.120 I'm at the back of the march now. Everyone's kind 2:31:21.160 --> 2:31:24.480 of tightened up into one larger, larger group. They've paused 2:31:24.560 --> 2:31:28.360 briefly and are retrieving some tires that have been found 2:31:29.879 --> 2:31:34.600 near the ditch on the road here, dozens and dozens 2:31:34.640 --> 2:31:39.480 of tires are blocking are blocking the road. They're getting 2:31:39.520 --> 2:31:42.400 moved out pretty quick, and the march is moving on. Oh, 2:31:42.600 --> 2:31:44.640 and looks like people arrived at the power line cut, 2:31:45.760 --> 2:31:49.400 this massive clearing for power lines to run north south. 2:31:50.160 --> 2:31:54.280 People are now marching on the green grass underneath the 2:31:54.400 --> 2:31:58.000 power lines. The thin clear cut for power lines has 2:31:58.080 --> 2:32:01.320 been there for years and directly leads to where cop 2:32:01.400 --> 2:32:04.800 City pre construction work is taking place near the north Gate. 2:32:05.680 --> 2:32:08.200 The open area makes it easy to traverse, but on 2:32:08.240 --> 2:32:10.560 the flip side, that also makes it easy to surveil. 2:32:11.280 --> 2:32:14.120 There were only a little over a dozen cops stationed 2:32:14.160 --> 2:32:16.520 at the north gate, as well as the police chopper 2:32:16.640 --> 2:32:20.640 circling overhead. The group of block is slowly, slowly moving 2:32:20.720 --> 2:32:24.440 north along the power line cut. I'm keeping my distance 2:32:24.480 --> 2:32:27.360 for now so that I can continue doing stuff without 2:32:27.840 --> 2:32:31.680 being extremely jeopardized. The block approached the north gate in 2:32:31.760 --> 2:32:35.279 broad daylight, with shields in hand and people behind throwing 2:32:35.320 --> 2:32:39.359 projectiles in the direction of police. A barrage of fireworks, 2:32:39.520 --> 2:32:43.120 rocks and just the sheer size of the crowd overwhelmed police, 2:32:43.240 --> 2:32:46.520 causing officers to retreat as a swarm of hundreds of 2:32:46.560 --> 2:32:50.640 people overtook the proposed cop City construction site and current 2:32:50.760 --> 2:32:54.120 police security upost within the Wollani Forest. All right, the 2:32:54.160 --> 2:32:56.840 group has marched a decent ways up. There's now fireworks 2:32:56.920 --> 2:33:00.400 in the distance. A police helicopter is still over head. 2:33:00.760 --> 2:33:02.240 Looks like most of the crowd is still in the 2:33:02.320 --> 2:33:05.920 area of the power line cut. A pretty condensed large 2:33:05.920 --> 2:33:09.160 group of people up there lots of fireworks. Like I said, 2:33:09.879 --> 2:33:12.960 some individuals chose to focus their efforts on repelling the 2:33:13.040 --> 2:33:16.560 nearby police, giving the opportunity for others to set their 2:33:16.640 --> 2:33:20.200 sights on various targets. The large number of people in 2:33:20.280 --> 2:33:23.920 the block together allowed for individuals to feel more safe 2:33:24.000 --> 2:33:27.200 and capable of taking action. The APDs put a call 2:33:27.240 --> 2:33:29.120 out to get any available units down here by the 2:33:29.160 --> 2:33:31.880 old line of prison farm property and a quote from 2:33:31.879 --> 2:33:36.720 the scanner audios get here now, assholes. Forest defenders smashed 2:33:36.800 --> 2:33:40.640 up and set ablaze and office trailer, two UTVs, a 2:33:40.720 --> 2:33:44.279 surveillance tower, and a front end loader as the police 2:33:44.320 --> 2:33:48.560 ran for cover behind a fenced off secondary smaller outpost across. 2:33:48.200 --> 2:33:49.000 From Key Road. 2:33:49.600 --> 2:33:53.920 Despite the police helicopter circling overhead the gathering spot for 2:33:53.920 --> 2:33:56.680 a good thirty minutes, it seems APD was not fully 2:33:56.760 --> 2:33:59.840 prepared in their response or just did not know what 2:34:00.200 --> 2:34:03.000 going on, because they made it a decent way without 2:34:03.040 --> 2:34:07.480 any visible resistance so far. A communicate posted online reads 2:34:07.680 --> 2:34:11.040 quote when we approached the gate. Finally it was not chaos, 2:34:11.280 --> 2:34:14.640 but it was something like it. Our crowd unleashed a 2:34:14.760 --> 2:34:17.720 wild burst of energy. It was incredible and I will 2:34:17.760 --> 2:34:21.760 never forget it. It was rhythmic almost We devastated all 2:34:21.840 --> 2:34:25.280 of their work, their vehicles, the trailer, everything. But it 2:34:25.320 --> 2:34:28.760 looks like Atlanta Police is now trying to converge. Lots 2:34:28.800 --> 2:34:30.560 of fireworks are still I see smoke. 2:34:31.640 --> 2:34:32.400 Oh, a lot of smoke. 2:34:32.600 --> 2:34:34.800 WHOA a lot of smoke. 2:34:34.640 --> 2:34:38.039 Very fast is filling up, filling up the area around 2:34:38.760 --> 2:34:40.840 the little It looks like it's by the little control 2:34:40.920 --> 2:34:42.680 tower in the middle of the power line. 2:34:42.680 --> 2:34:42.880 Cut. 2:34:43.560 --> 2:34:47.400 Wow, that smoke is thick. That's a fire. That is 2:34:47.480 --> 2:34:49.480 a decent fire. You can I can see the orange 2:34:49.520 --> 2:34:52.600 flame now. As the few police officers stationed at the 2:34:52.600 --> 2:34:55.920 North Gate were forced to fall back under pressure, force 2:34:56.000 --> 2:34:59.279 defenders leveled months of their work within a few minutes. 2:35:00.040 --> 2:35:03.000 To quote the scenes dot no blogs communicate quote. This 2:35:03.360 --> 2:35:07.920 act of mass collective sabotage was done methodically and without anxiety. 2:35:08.560 --> 2:35:12.440 The crowd destroyed all of their equipment with ease and confidence. 2:35:12.959 --> 2:35:18.480 So the excavator there was a utility train vehicle, which 2:35:18.560 --> 2:35:21.000 is what the police have been using to sort of 2:35:21.640 --> 2:35:25.320 move in and around the woods, and sort of motorized 2:35:25.400 --> 2:35:26.640 move in and around the woods. 2:35:27.200 --> 2:35:28.959 And then the. 2:35:30.440 --> 2:35:35.920 Office space and the storage space. We're all torched. I 2:35:36.000 --> 2:35:38.120 think that that comprised like everything that. 2:35:38.240 --> 2:35:42.280 Was over there, and then the police surveillance tower, which 2:35:42.280 --> 2:35:43.680 has been taken down a few times. 2:35:43.680 --> 2:35:45.960 Surveillance towers in that area, they have this tendency to 2:35:46.040 --> 2:35:46.440 fall over. 2:35:47.200 --> 2:35:50.279 The fire has gotten a lot lot bigger. Police scanner 2:35:50.280 --> 2:35:54.160 audio is saying officer needs help, calling for all available 2:35:54.240 --> 2:35:56.080 units to converge on the spot. 2:35:56.240 --> 2:35:56.400 Wow. 2:35:56.400 --> 2:35:57.960 Ok, the fire is getting so much brighter. 2:35:58.760 --> 2:36:02.040 Smoke is incredibly It looks like some people are starting 2:36:02.080 --> 2:36:03.720 to move out of the area back into the woods. 2:36:04.320 --> 2:36:05.480 But wow, that is a. 2:36:07.240 --> 2:36:10.200 Huge fire. There was at least two separate things lit 2:36:10.280 --> 2:36:13.000 on fire. There were, in fact more than two things 2:36:13.120 --> 2:36:15.920 on fire. Looks like crowd is going to be starting 2:36:15.920 --> 2:36:18.240 to move because a lot of police is about to 2:36:18.280 --> 2:36:20.480 show up. I'm sure what the response will be for 2:36:20.680 --> 2:36:23.760 people at the music festival or at a Wolani People's 2:36:23.760 --> 2:36:25.480 park who are camping out for the Week of Action. 2:36:26.240 --> 2:36:29.720 But this is a pretty pretty big action for Week 2:36:29.760 --> 2:36:33.640 of Action Day two. Wow, this smoke plume is massive. 2:36:37.800 --> 2:36:41.240 While the action itself was a success, the notion of 2:36:41.320 --> 2:36:45.320 an overall one sided victory was about to come crashing down. 2:36:45.720 --> 2:36:48.760 A whole bunch of sirens just flew by about a 2:36:48.800 --> 2:36:52.040 dozen cop cars, Lots of cop cars by the music 2:36:52.080 --> 2:36:55.280 festival entrants as well by the RC field. Looks like 2:36:55.360 --> 2:36:59.400 the cop cars are converging at the festival, not at 2:36:59.680 --> 2:37:03.560 the fire here. Okay, back at the music festival. As 2:37:03.640 --> 2:37:08.240 you can hear, it is it is, It is still ongoing. 2:37:08.280 --> 2:37:11.080 There's still hundreds of people, probably like five hundred people 2:37:11.120 --> 2:37:14.000 gathered here at the music festival. You can see smoke 2:37:14.080 --> 2:37:18.000 in the air from this vantage point, from the spot 2:37:18.160 --> 2:37:22.600 by the power line cut where those two fires took place. 2:37:23.520 --> 2:37:26.160 One indication that this night was far from over was 2:37:26.240 --> 2:37:29.680 that the police helicopter seemed to be moving toward the festival. 2:37:30.160 --> 2:37:31.359 The chopper has moved. 2:37:31.480 --> 2:37:34.120 From being the power line cut to the music festival 2:37:34.200 --> 2:37:37.600 and Wailani people's spark vibe seems to be pretty chill 2:37:37.680 --> 2:37:39.280 on the ground here. I'm not sure how many people 2:37:39.360 --> 2:37:42.720 that are present know what's going on, but the chopper 2:37:42.800 --> 2:37:46.400 is still stationed above the entrance to the festival, so 2:37:46.480 --> 2:37:49.520 I think they're they're looking to see if the group 2:37:49.560 --> 2:37:51.440 that march is going to march back the same direction, 2:37:51.760 --> 2:37:55.400 which I don't think they will, but that is what's 2:37:55.440 --> 2:37:58.680 currently going on. People still still seem to be coming 2:37:58.840 --> 2:38:02.720 like to and from the fast. Sure enough, within minutes, 2:38:03.120 --> 2:38:06.920 an increasingly large number of police started to stage by 2:38:07.000 --> 2:38:10.560 the entrance to the RC Field. Doesn't the police cars 2:38:10.560 --> 2:38:12.440 are now stationed outside the entrance to the RC field 2:38:12.440 --> 2:38:15.200 where the music festival is taking place. There's a lot 2:38:15.240 --> 2:38:18.520 of police here, some with rifles. They're getting their zip 2:38:18.560 --> 2:38:22.240 tie cuffs ready. They've not entered the festival area yet, 2:38:22.520 --> 2:38:24.760 but I got word from somebody that they have entered 2:38:24.840 --> 2:38:28.880 the Wolaani People's Park parking lot and it looks like 2:38:29.320 --> 2:38:33.800 movement is to be expected very soon. At around six 2:38:33.959 --> 2:38:37.080 thirty pm, police began to raid the South River Music 2:38:37.160 --> 2:38:40.119 Festival and started what I think is accurately described as 2:38:40.440 --> 2:38:44.040 the police's own counter protest to the events that transpired 2:38:44.160 --> 2:38:44.879 the past hour. 2:38:45.520 --> 2:38:49.480 So when the police came running up onto the tarmac 2:38:49.480 --> 2:38:51.440 at RC Field where the bouncy castle was, of course 2:38:51.680 --> 2:38:55.440 they had to point a rifle at the bouncy castle. 2:38:55.920 --> 2:38:57.760 And if that doesn't show that police are not here 2:38:57.840 --> 2:38:59.720 to have fun and have joy, I don't know what 2:39:00.120 --> 2:39:02.720 what is. I don't know if anyone was in it 2:39:02.800 --> 2:39:05.200 at the time, I don't think so. I think they 2:39:05.240 --> 2:39:08.960 were literally just pointing a gun at an empty bouncy 2:39:09.280 --> 2:39:14.640 castle which they have they destroyed, and I think we 2:39:14.800 --> 2:39:16.520 have to take a moment to mourn that. 2:39:17.160 --> 2:39:20.520 Lots of police running into the music festival. They're rowing 2:39:20.560 --> 2:39:25.880 someone down, chasing down a few people, Cops approaching for 2:39:25.959 --> 2:39:30.440 multiple sides. Instead of immediately trying to confront the hundreds 2:39:30.480 --> 2:39:34.480 of music festival attendees head on, the still extremely outnumbered 2:39:34.520 --> 2:39:37.720 cops ran to the opposite side of the music festival 2:39:37.800 --> 2:39:43.040 and started to indiscriminately go after isolated stragglers. People running 2:39:43.080 --> 2:39:51.240 into the woods, chase by police. Someone's tackled, no one 2:39:51.320 --> 2:39:59.680 early around it to arrest someone else being arrested. One, two, three, 2:40:00.840 --> 2:40:05.240 four or five six people currently arrested that I can see, 2:40:06.640 --> 2:40:07.560 or at least being detained. 2:40:08.879 --> 2:40:10.560 Looks like an NLG person's on the ground. 2:40:11.600 --> 2:40:15.199 Eventually the concertgoers realized what was happening, and a little 2:40:15.240 --> 2:40:18.119 over one hundred people mobilized to pressure the cops out 2:40:18.160 --> 2:40:21.200 of the field. People from the music festival are now 2:40:22.160 --> 2:40:27.000 running behind the police that have rushed into the rc field, 2:40:29.520 --> 2:40:31.080 cops being flanked by hundreds of people. 2:40:32.640 --> 2:40:35.800 So the first thing that happened was a few officers 2:40:35.920 --> 2:40:39.560 entered the RC field, which is where the music festival 2:40:39.640 --> 2:40:42.800 was happening, and made a few quick arrests. Yeah, like 2:40:42.920 --> 2:40:44.959 five or six, I would say, And I would assume, 2:40:45.240 --> 2:40:49.680 seeing like the crowd and realizing that a small force 2:40:49.760 --> 2:40:52.840 of officers is easily overwhelmed, kind of pulled back with 2:40:52.920 --> 2:40:56.360 their arrests. And then just after that, over in Wheelani 2:40:56.440 --> 2:40:58.879 People's Park, that's when the cab came in with their 2:40:58.879 --> 2:41:01.920 SWAT teams. There was a group that was meeting in 2:41:02.040 --> 2:41:06.000 the gazebo and they report like dozens of police officers 2:41:06.400 --> 2:41:10.480 running by. One of them stood up to record and 2:41:11.080 --> 2:41:13.480 an officer with an ar fifteen yelled at them and 2:41:13.560 --> 2:41:16.879 told them to sit the fuck back down, and they did. 2:41:17.000 --> 2:41:20.760 They were allowed to finish their meeting, but they report 2:41:20.840 --> 2:41:24.400 this very surreal experience of just officers like flying by 2:41:25.080 --> 2:41:28.920 and also making arrest of individuals who were running. And 2:41:29.000 --> 2:41:32.800 then the third wave, I would say, came in on 2:41:32.920 --> 2:41:36.760 the back of a armored police vehicle with an L RAD. 2:41:38.040 --> 2:41:42.040 Good old dj L rad brings it brings back all 2:41:42.080 --> 2:41:42.959 the memories. 2:41:42.760 --> 2:41:45.040 And so from there they sort of launched into the forest, 2:41:45.240 --> 2:41:46.039 launching tear. 2:41:45.920 --> 2:41:53.720 Gas again also brings back all of the memories. Police 2:41:53.760 --> 2:41:56.640 are starting to come back into the music festival. Fireworks 2:41:56.680 --> 2:41:58.800 are happening in the woods. 2:41:58.560 --> 2:41:59.320 Near the living room. 2:41:59.360 --> 2:41:59.800 It looks like. 2:42:01.920 --> 2:42:05.120 The police that entered via the RCA field advanced up 2:42:05.240 --> 2:42:07.440 to join another group of cops who came in from 2:42:07.560 --> 2:42:11.160 Wollani People's Park and were already in the woods. What 2:42:11.320 --> 2:42:14.840 I first assumed were just fireworks were actually in exchange 2:42:14.879 --> 2:42:18.400 of munitions, with cops firing explosive tear gas canisters into 2:42:18.440 --> 2:42:21.000 the forest and people trying to hold the cops off 2:42:21.080 --> 2:42:24.400 with fireworks. Tear gas is in the woods. 2:42:25.680 --> 2:42:27.560 Fuck, it's hard. 2:42:27.640 --> 2:42:30.360 I can't get any I didn't I didn't bring my 2:42:30.360 --> 2:42:33.560 gas masks because this was a music festival. It's just 2:42:34.320 --> 2:42:36.600 the woods are completely caked and gas. Everyone who's inside 2:42:37.240 --> 2:42:39.720 I don't know how they're going to get out. Cops 2:42:39.760 --> 2:42:41.720 have the place surrounded. It's so gassed up in there. 2:42:42.360 --> 2:42:43.440 Police raided. 2:42:44.120 --> 2:42:47.000 They tear gased a section of the woods close to 2:42:47.040 --> 2:42:50.039 the RCA field, kind of blocking off the RCA field 2:42:50.520 --> 2:42:53.960 from from the Wallani People's Park parking lot and the 2:42:54.000 --> 2:42:56.720 Campsit's nearby, so you couldn't like really get away or 2:42:56.800 --> 2:43:00.160 run through that area because your breathing would stop. As 2:43:00.240 --> 2:43:03.040 mine temporarily did as I tried, as I tried to 2:43:03.160 --> 2:43:07.240 run through there, and then policer just took over this 2:43:07.400 --> 2:43:11.560 entire section of southeast Atlanta, just this entire section of 2:43:12.160 --> 2:43:13.720 the woods, all the intersections in. 2:43:13.720 --> 2:43:18.520 This area, except for the very small space that the 2:43:18.640 --> 2:43:22.400 music festival was still going on during this entire time. 2:43:22.760 --> 2:43:24.800 The section like right in front of the stage where 2:43:24.840 --> 2:43:27.520 people continued to have the music festival for the next 2:43:27.560 --> 2:43:30.760 few hours. As police were as like, I kid you not, 2:43:30.959 --> 2:43:34.760 Like over five hundred police officers were in this surrounding area. 2:43:34.920 --> 2:43:37.560 There was the most amount of police I've ever seen 2:43:37.720 --> 2:43:39.360 respond to anything ever. 2:43:39.879 --> 2:43:41.080 It was wild. 2:43:42.080 --> 2:43:44.039 I am currently heading out. 2:43:44.040 --> 2:43:46.200 I will try to loop back around to Blanna People's 2:43:46.200 --> 2:43:47.600 Park because there's just no way through it right now 2:43:47.680 --> 2:43:48.400 with all the tear gas. 2:43:48.879 --> 2:43:51.160 But a cop van has. 2:43:51.080 --> 2:43:54.280 Pulled into the rc Field music customal people. Some of 2:43:54.320 --> 2:43:56.520 them are study by the stage, others are kind of dispersing. 2:43:57.400 --> 2:44:02.200 Night's getting pretty hectic. Cops fully surrounding a lot of 2:44:02.240 --> 2:44:06.440 People's Park and the music festival on all sides. There 2:44:06.480 --> 2:44:08.760 was at least one individual of note who was witnessed 2:44:08.800 --> 2:44:11.400 to be at the music festival the entire time. During 2:44:11.440 --> 2:44:13.880 the direct action, and they were one of the very 2:44:13.959 --> 2:44:18.800 first arrests. Police chased this person down, tased and violently 2:44:18.920 --> 2:44:21.480 tackled them. Were you on the festival at that time. 2:44:22.360 --> 2:44:25.920 I was around the festival at that time. I even 2:44:26.120 --> 2:44:31.680 saw the police tackle someone at the festival and tackle 2:44:31.760 --> 2:44:36.440 and tase an Indigenous person at the festival. And initially 2:44:36.760 --> 2:44:40.000 the police officer Georgia State Patrol, and these are the 2:44:40.040 --> 2:44:43.600 folks that were responsible for killing Tortigita and making up 2:44:43.600 --> 2:44:47.400 a lie about it. They started running and there were 2:44:47.520 --> 2:44:49.879 three people in front of them. All three of those 2:44:49.959 --> 2:44:53.760 people started running, and then there were two white folks 2:44:53.840 --> 2:44:56.880 that veered off to the left and one Indigenous person 2:44:56.920 --> 2:45:00.920 that veered off to the right. Go figure, the Georgia 2:45:00.959 --> 2:45:04.120 State Patrol veered to the right and then tased and 2:45:04.160 --> 2:45:09.120 tackled the indigenous person. And then and there's the footage 2:45:09.120 --> 2:45:12.240 of this that may may not be released, uh, where 2:45:13.400 --> 2:45:16.320 I was trying to de escalate the situation because this 2:45:16.480 --> 2:45:20.760 police officer, with no grounds to attack this person, is 2:45:21.040 --> 2:45:24.240 choking them on the ground and then really just asking 2:45:24.280 --> 2:45:26.520 you like literally what are you doing? 2:45:27.440 --> 2:45:29.240 Like why are you doing? 2:45:29.800 --> 2:45:32.000 And then the persons that I didn't do anything, and 2:45:32.160 --> 2:45:36.000 then the uh Georgia State Patrol officer responded, well, you 2:45:36.280 --> 2:45:40.880 ran right, as if running when somebody with a gun 2:45:41.680 --> 2:45:45.520 chasing you is an admission of guilt of something. Uh 2:45:45.879 --> 2:45:51.400 So the response was nonsensical and stupid. 2:45:52.160 --> 2:45:55.720 So they they're tear gassing the forest and again, you know, uh, 2:45:55.920 --> 2:46:01.280 grabbing from reports anyone who who's who's running? Anyone who 2:46:01.840 --> 2:46:06.160 who you know rightfully runs from a police officer running 2:46:06.200 --> 2:46:09.440 at them with an AR fifteen, which you know, we've 2:46:09.480 --> 2:46:12.640 been around police all week, and like the instinct to run, 2:46:13.240 --> 2:46:16.560 you know, even even now is still pretty high. 2:46:16.920 --> 2:46:16.960 No. 2:46:17.040 --> 2:46:21.080 Absolutely, And if you've never been chased by police before, 2:46:21.800 --> 2:46:24.840 your first instinct isn't to like let them get you, 2:46:26.000 --> 2:46:29.200 like I've had police just charge at me for filming 2:46:29.400 --> 2:46:33.120 police brutality before. And yeah, you generally want to move away. 2:46:33.520 --> 2:46:34.879 It is your immediate reaction. 2:46:35.360 --> 2:46:38.800 Yeah, anyone running at you with a gun is caused 2:46:38.840 --> 2:46:41.800 for fear, and a police officer even more so. Okay, 2:46:42.040 --> 2:46:43.520 I am out of the area. 2:46:43.760 --> 2:46:46.440 Police have surrounded on basically every side of the Lone 2:46:46.480 --> 2:46:49.080 People's Park, the section of the four people are camping 2:46:49.120 --> 2:46:53.039 out of the music festival, all entrances and exits are stage, 2:46:53.160 --> 2:46:56.160 a whole bunch of intersections, this police stage. They're letting 2:46:56.200 --> 2:46:58.200 some people go, obviously they're arresting a whole bunch of 2:46:58.400 --> 2:47:01.760 other people. No clear indication on who their arresting or why. 2:47:03.280 --> 2:47:04.440 It's pretty chaotic right now. 2:47:05.080 --> 2:47:06.760 They put out this officer needs help. 2:47:06.800 --> 2:47:06.959 Call. 2:47:07.120 --> 2:47:10.640 That expanded beyond just APD, But the first thing they 2:47:10.680 --> 2:47:15.480 did was was calling every available APD officer. Fulton County 2:47:15.959 --> 2:47:18.560 Sheriff's Office joint to Cab County started to mount up, 2:47:19.040 --> 2:47:22.040 and then of course the Georgia State Patrol definitely had 2:47:22.040 --> 2:47:26.320 to get onto this action. So jurisdictionally wide or this 2:47:26.520 --> 2:47:31.400 multi jurisdiction wide force of police amassed on Key Road 2:47:32.280 --> 2:47:35.000 with the cab kind of coming in on the other side. 2:47:35.600 --> 2:47:38.680 I passed through at least five hundred individual police officers. Yeah, 2:47:38.760 --> 2:47:41.920 that like that would check out, because I walked a 2:47:42.000 --> 2:47:46.240 decent a decent, a decent ways. I passed by many 2:47:46.280 --> 2:47:49.640 an intersection with at least fifty to one hundred cops 2:47:49.680 --> 2:47:50.920 was stationed at like each intersection. 2:47:51.320 --> 2:47:54.920 Oh and we can't forget the Sandy Springs Police Department also, 2:47:55.240 --> 2:47:57.520 and its way down from outside the premier. 2:47:57.400 --> 2:48:00.960 Multiple swat teams there was like thinks read from Bearcats. 2:48:01.280 --> 2:48:04.119 After I evacuated the area, I was still in shock 2:48:04.200 --> 2:48:07.760 about how many police officers mobilized to raid the festival. 2:48:08.480 --> 2:48:11.040 This is the biggest police response I've seen to anything 2:48:11.840 --> 2:48:14.920 in Atlanta in the time that I've been here. This 2:48:15.040 --> 2:48:16.800 is bigger than the police responses to most of like 2:48:17.080 --> 2:48:20.840 Portland actions compared to Like twenty twenty. Massive, massive amount 2:48:20.840 --> 2:48:24.920 of cops from multiple agencies taking over a huge area 2:48:25.480 --> 2:48:33.760 of South Atlanta and de kep County. As the second 2:48:33.840 --> 2:48:37.720 wave of police charged in and detained several music festival attendees, 2:48:38.320 --> 2:48:41.960 panic spread throughout the crowd. Hundreds of people rushed to 2:48:42.040 --> 2:48:45.600 the exits in an attempt to evacuate. Police blocked exits 2:48:45.720 --> 2:48:50.000 and arrested, detained, or harassed and threatened those trying to leave. 2:48:50.760 --> 2:48:54.600 One concertgoer reported that they received death threats from an 2:48:54.680 --> 2:49:04.800 intruding officer quote you're going to get shot. I don't 2:49:04.840 --> 2:49:06.800 know how to put it, but you're gonna get shot 2:49:06.879 --> 2:49:10.400 with a bullet unquote. That same person who recorded that 2:49:10.480 --> 2:49:14.000 interaction also reported that she heard an officer with his 2:49:14.240 --> 2:49:16.800 side arm drawn in the living room say, quote, I 2:49:16.959 --> 2:49:20.640 swear to God, I will fucking kill you unquote. Some 2:49:20.800 --> 2:49:24.000 people opted for safety in numbers and decided they'd rather 2:49:24.080 --> 2:49:26.879 stay together as a group as opposed to the risk 2:49:27.000 --> 2:49:29.760 of trying to escape through the woods alone. That night, 2:49:30.600 --> 2:49:33.400 about one hundred and fifty people congregated in front of 2:49:33.520 --> 2:49:37.200 the festival stage, and musicians that stuck around continued to 2:49:37.280 --> 2:49:37.959 play music. 2:49:38.400 --> 2:49:43.800 So the music festival continues unhindered until dusk, and about 2:49:43.920 --> 2:49:51.240 then is when DJ l Rad comes up and officers 2:49:51.280 --> 2:49:55.160 get out and call over like five people from the crowd. 2:49:55.600 --> 2:49:57.279 And so at this point I think there's like somewhere 2:49:57.360 --> 2:50:01.760 between one hundred seventy five to one hundred people still 2:50:01.800 --> 2:50:05.600 at the music pest watching the music, and people are 2:50:06.080 --> 2:50:08.520 calling out from the stage like we have a legal 2:50:08.600 --> 2:50:11.640 right to be here, this is public property. 2:50:12.120 --> 2:50:17.160 We had We had dueling, dueling loud speakers trying to 2:50:17.800 --> 2:50:21.440 two people having a regular conversation across a field via 2:50:21.720 --> 2:50:22.920 opposing loud speakers. 2:50:23.080 --> 2:50:24.879 Ry Scott Pilgrim versus the world right like. 2:50:26.560 --> 2:50:28.360 You know, as the police are trying to shut down 2:50:28.400 --> 2:50:31.840 a concert, and there's like pulks screaming into the bike 2:50:32.560 --> 2:50:35.320 and police officers using they all read to scream back. 2:50:35.920 --> 2:50:38.560 It's just amazing I mean, the visuals of this whole 2:50:38.640 --> 2:50:42.240 day I think are kind of really easy to imagine, 2:50:42.320 --> 2:50:43.240 even if you're not there. 2:50:43.440 --> 2:50:43.680 Yeah. 2:50:44.360 --> 2:50:47.720 Roughly after two hours of hunting down and detaining stragglers 2:50:47.760 --> 2:50:51.000 from the festival, dozens of swat in riot gear with 2:50:51.120 --> 2:50:55.200 high end rifles and armored vehicles slowly moved in towards 2:50:55.280 --> 2:50:59.280 the stage. Police told festivalgoers that they had three minutes 2:50:59.280 --> 2:51:03.360 to leave the festival under threat of arrest for domestic terrorism, 2:51:04.040 --> 2:51:08.880 to which festivalgoers responded by shouting no. In front of 2:51:08.920 --> 2:51:12.080 the stage. The crowd linked arms enchanted, let us go 2:51:12.240 --> 2:51:13.920 home and we have children. 2:51:14.879 --> 2:51:21.560 Go WHOA. 2:51:22.000 --> 2:51:24.959 Apparently unable to mass arrest one hundred and fifty people 2:51:25.080 --> 2:51:28.760 for whatever reason, police called for five individuals from the 2:51:28.800 --> 2:51:32.720 festival to engage in a brief discussion. After this odd 2:51:32.840 --> 2:51:37.120 negotiation with a handful of random concert goers, festival attendees 2:51:37.200 --> 2:51:39.520 were told they had ten minutes to walk to their 2:51:39.600 --> 2:51:43.439 cars and go home or else be charged with domestic terrorism. 2:51:43.920 --> 2:51:47.200 About half the crowd has cars parked in the rc field, 2:51:48.160 --> 2:51:50.680 and the police allow them to go to their cars 2:51:50.800 --> 2:51:54.880 and leave, leaving like somewhere between you know, three dozen 2:51:56.080 --> 2:51:59.600 somewhere around three dozen people without cars still remaining at 2:51:59.600 --> 2:52:04.440 the FESTI and this whole time they're also chanting, we 2:52:04.640 --> 2:52:07.720 have kids, let us go, and like, it's this very 2:52:07.760 --> 2:52:11.280 big moment of solidarity that I've been told from like 2:52:11.520 --> 2:52:14.480 people who were there that you could tell that everybody 2:52:14.600 --> 2:52:16.920 was like really interested in keeping each other safe. 2:52:17.320 --> 2:52:18.080 Yeah, it was, It was. 2:52:18.240 --> 2:52:20.240 It was weird because police were definitely they were letting 2:52:20.280 --> 2:52:22.760 some people walk away and leave a place, some people 2:52:22.840 --> 2:52:26.520 drive away, arresting others not really with no clear indication 2:52:26.600 --> 2:52:28.840 for why they're letting some go and not not letting 2:52:28.879 --> 2:52:32.720 others go. But then this this crowd of people around 2:52:32.760 --> 2:52:35.920 the stage were eventually allowed to leave the music festival 2:52:36.400 --> 2:52:39.160 in big rent of vans. The police then id'd the 2:52:39.680 --> 2:52:42.000 people who rented the vans and were driving the vans, 2:52:42.560 --> 2:52:46.560 but but everyone was able to exit who stayed by 2:52:47.120 --> 2:52:51.400 the music festival. Around midnight, the Atlanta Police Department posted 2:52:51.480 --> 2:52:55.400 a press release saying that thirty five people have been detained, 2:52:56.080 --> 2:52:59.320 which was kind of weird language because everyone assumed that 2:52:59.400 --> 2:53:01.760 those who had been taken by police were all going 2:53:01.800 --> 2:53:04.560 to be arrested and charged. But then less than an 2:53:04.560 --> 2:53:08.600 hour later, twelve individuals were suddenly released from police custody 2:53:08.959 --> 2:53:13.120 back to Gresham Park. Since then, witnesses and lawyers have 2:53:13.240 --> 2:53:16.880 claimed that police separated out people with Atlanta addresses on 2:53:17.000 --> 2:53:21.520 their IDs and released those individuals, and then the remaining 2:53:21.600 --> 2:53:24.320 twenty three people, mostly with out of state IDs or 2:53:24.440 --> 2:53:28.199 a non Atlanta address, were arrested and charged with domestic 2:53:28.360 --> 2:53:33.360 terrorism to continue the outside agitator narrative, bringing the total 2:53:33.440 --> 2:53:36.360 number of people charged with domestic terrorism to forty two. 2:53:37.800 --> 2:53:40.760 Ever since Sunday night, there's been this effort from police 2:53:40.879 --> 2:53:44.400 and their media allies to frame these arrests as if 2:53:44.480 --> 2:53:47.240 they happened at the scene of the crime, alleging that 2:53:47.440 --> 2:53:50.920 the twenty three people arrested were themselves torching equipment or 2:53:51.000 --> 2:53:55.160 actively engaged in domestic terrorism. Yet all of the arrests 2:53:55.240 --> 2:53:57.959 took place almost a mile away at the music festival, 2:53:58.120 --> 2:54:00.400 and even further away in some cases, like in the 2:54:00.480 --> 2:54:03.240 parking lot, which is on the other side of the 2:54:03.320 --> 2:54:06.160 forest from the north gate. To quote an article in 2:54:06.240 --> 2:54:09.520 Truth Out by Candice Burned, quote, law enforcement failing to 2:54:09.640 --> 2:54:14.120 apprehend specific individuals at the site itself, indiscriminately targeted the 2:54:14.240 --> 2:54:18.080 music festival, pouring into the field, campgrounds and parking lot 2:54:18.280 --> 2:54:22.280 with weapons drawn, they issued commands, chased people down, and 2:54:22.400 --> 2:54:27.160 threatened to shoot and arrest festival attendees unquote. Still, major 2:54:27.240 --> 2:54:30.600 news outlets all but ignored the fact that all arrests 2:54:30.600 --> 2:54:33.960 occurred seemingly at random during a police raid of the 2:54:34.080 --> 2:54:37.360 nearby South River Music Festival, where people gathered to see 2:54:37.760 --> 2:54:40.600 Zack Fox Live, to jump in a bouncy castle and 2:54:40.800 --> 2:54:44.320 enjoy the outdoors. Many attendees had little to no idea 2:54:44.400 --> 2:54:47.000 of what had occurred at the copp City construction site. 2:54:47.640 --> 2:54:50.039 Those who got lucky were forced to walk through tier 2:54:50.120 --> 2:54:53.039 gas to get to their cars, while others were assaulted 2:54:53.080 --> 2:54:56.520 by police and charged with domestic terrorism, risking thirty five 2:54:56.600 --> 2:55:00.520 years in prison. Here's a clip from NBC's Today Show. 2:55:00.640 --> 2:55:03.600 Got breaking news out of Atlanta. Over nine dozens arrested 2:55:03.680 --> 2:55:07.080 after what's being described as a coordinated criminal attack. It 2:55:07.160 --> 2:55:09.640 happened at the future site of a police training center. 2:55:09.680 --> 2:55:11.960 And this is Blaine Alexander's on the story for US 2:55:12.000 --> 2:55:12.800 Blaine Good Morning. 2:55:13.480 --> 2:55:17.440 Officials say protesters burned construction vehicles and a trailer and 2:55:17.560 --> 2:55:20.360 set off fireworks toward officers stationed nearby. 2:55:20.959 --> 2:55:22.760 This wasn't about a public safety training center. 2:55:22.840 --> 2:55:25.200 This was about anarchy and this was about the attempt 2:55:25.240 --> 2:55:25.959 to destabilize. 2:55:26.080 --> 2:55:29.520 Police point to a group of what they call outside agitators, 2:55:29.720 --> 2:55:32.840 saying they left an event nearby, changed into black clothing, 2:55:33.040 --> 2:55:37.760 and mounted a coordinated attack on construction equipment and police officers. 2:55:38.360 --> 2:55:41.040 To quote a statement from the Sonic Defense Committee. Quote, 2:55:41.640 --> 2:55:45.720 the indiscriminate brutalization and arrest of festivalgoers suggests that law 2:55:45.800 --> 2:55:48.200 enforcement agencies will go to great lengths to paint the 2:55:48.240 --> 2:55:50.520 movement to stop Coop City and Defend the Atlanta Forest 2:55:50.879 --> 2:55:54.760 as a criminal organization. It is in fact a broad, 2:55:54.959 --> 2:56:01.119 decentralized movement with no ideological or organizational unity of shared goal. 2:56:01.800 --> 2:56:04.120 They believe that the movement is made up of bad 2:56:04.240 --> 2:56:09.000 actors who betray otherwise peaceful protesters, but the movement is 2:56:09.080 --> 2:56:13.040 not committed to any particular tactic, instead accepting the diversity 2:56:13.080 --> 2:56:16.240 of approaches to stop the project. The police claim that 2:56:16.440 --> 2:56:19.080 the movement is not made up of any Atlantans, while 2:56:19.400 --> 2:56:23.879 Atlanta University Center, students, local clergy, faith leaders, small businesses, 2:56:24.000 --> 2:56:28.480 and dozens of locally famous artists and musicians organize themselves 2:56:28.560 --> 2:56:32.640 within the movement. The police's false narrative and heavy handed 2:56:32.680 --> 2:56:35.160 approach to dealing with the opposition to the COP City 2:56:35.240 --> 2:56:39.280 project is slowly starting to enclose them in. As the 2:56:39.360 --> 2:56:42.800 movement grows and city and state officials refuse to see 2:56:42.840 --> 2:56:45.440 the reality of what they are dealing with, their own 2:56:45.480 --> 2:56:49.080 authority is being brought into question. If they are not careful, 2:56:49.240 --> 2:56:51.920 the stakes of the movement will soon exceed the bounds 2:56:52.000 --> 2:56:55.959 of the forest and COP City. In fact, that process 2:56:56.200 --> 2:56:57.640 may already have begun. 2:56:58.360 --> 2:57:01.600 I think to talk about what happened, we we kind 2:57:01.600 --> 2:57:04.560 of do have to go back to put it in context, 2:57:05.600 --> 2:57:09.680 and going back to January, that was the end of 2:57:09.800 --> 2:57:15.000 the occupation or the you know, continuous encampments in Wilani 2:57:17.360 --> 2:57:21.520 and then flash, uh fast forward to to late January. 2:57:21.600 --> 2:57:24.840 They get the LDP and so all of these people 2:57:24.959 --> 2:57:28.680 who have been protecting the forest for so long are 2:57:28.760 --> 2:57:32.720 now watching construction equipment roll in and they're watching clear 2:57:32.800 --> 2:57:38.160 cutting and they can't do anything about it. And you 2:57:38.280 --> 2:57:42.000 had that action, uh just after Tortigita's death in January, 2:57:42.320 --> 2:57:46.920 which was a very targeted you know, only two funders 2:57:46.959 --> 2:57:50.240 and other supporters of cop City and you know, maybe 2:57:50.280 --> 2:57:53.640 a random police vehicle. But it wasn't really like this, 2:57:54.000 --> 2:57:57.519 this letting of energy it was a very like specific 2:57:58.040 --> 2:58:00.600 sort of purpose. And so you have this like build 2:58:00.720 --> 2:58:03.880 up of energy that I think is really important to 2:58:04.720 --> 2:58:08.120 keep in mind with what is about to happen in 2:58:08.200 --> 2:58:11.920 this story. And they so they can't do anything, and 2:58:12.000 --> 2:58:17.120 then you have Saturday where you see this massive people 2:58:17.640 --> 2:58:22.279 return to the forest, and I think it's almost unavoidable 2:58:22.920 --> 2:58:26.440 in retrospect to look at that and for them not 2:58:26.600 --> 2:58:29.400 to have said, what can we do now that we 2:58:29.480 --> 2:58:35.360 couldn't do before? So they gather and they do what 2:58:35.440 --> 2:58:39.480 they couldn't do before they head over to the construction site. 2:58:40.080 --> 2:58:42.080 There had not been an action like this in the 2:58:42.120 --> 2:58:46.120 woods for a long time. Bulldozers and equipment had not 2:58:46.200 --> 2:58:49.080 been damaged in quite a while. But on Sunday people 2:58:49.120 --> 2:58:51.560 were able to use the safety in numbers that comes 2:58:51.600 --> 2:58:54.240 with a week of action to feel more empowered to 2:58:54.360 --> 2:58:58.119 take direct action against the actual machinery that is destroying 2:58:58.160 --> 2:59:01.680 the forest and building cop City. Sunday's action can be 2:59:01.760 --> 2:59:04.560 seen as a demonstration of the pent up righteous anger 2:59:04.879 --> 2:59:09.119 from watching the slow destruction of the forest. Participants view 2:59:09.200 --> 2:59:12.800 what happened as a justified strike against the active destruction 2:59:12.920 --> 2:59:16.000 of the forest, a strike back made an anger after 2:59:16.120 --> 2:59:19.080 watching the Atlanta Police Foundation make steady progress over the 2:59:19.160 --> 2:59:20.520 course of the past few months. 2:59:21.240 --> 2:59:24.680 The day before, there was this chant that was taken 2:59:24.760 --> 2:59:26.280 up by the entire crowd, and I think we talked 2:59:26.280 --> 2:59:27.120 about this and. 2:59:28.879 --> 2:59:29.279 Earlier. 2:59:30.800 --> 2:59:33.280 If you build it, we will burn it. And that 2:59:33.560 --> 2:59:36.199 was something that if you looked all throughout the crowd, 2:59:36.360 --> 2:59:41.240 like they were chanting everybody, everybody, like not just people 2:59:41.320 --> 2:59:44.760 wearing camera or black block, like a thousand people, everybody. Yeah, 2:59:44.760 --> 2:59:47.160 a thousand people marching from Gresham Park. And I think 2:59:47.200 --> 2:59:50.720 that this is that promise come true. 2:59:51.480 --> 2:59:54.400 Sunday's action was itself a pretty unique moment in the 2:59:54.440 --> 2:59:59.040 recent history of environmental and anti police struggles. Watching hundreds 2:59:59.080 --> 3:00:02.199 of people go on the offensive to participate in a mass, 3:00:02.280 --> 3:00:05.960 coordinated sabotage in defense of both the forest and targets 3:00:05.959 --> 3:00:09.440 of police of isolence felt like an unprecedented moment in 3:00:09.560 --> 3:00:13.600 our modern paradigm of resistance in the United States. But 3:00:13.840 --> 3:00:16.480 the raid on the music festival on March fifth was 3:00:16.520 --> 3:00:19.560 also just the start of an unparalleled wave of police 3:00:19.600 --> 3:00:23.000 repression during this week of action, which we will cover 3:00:23.240 --> 3:00:26.760 in the next episode, but throughout the whole week, the 3:00:26.840 --> 3:00:31.360 assurance that Copcity will never be built never faltered, as 3:00:31.440 --> 3:00:34.680 demonstrated by common chance, such as I believe that we 3:00:34.800 --> 3:00:38.600 will win. So I'm going to end this episode with 3:00:38.800 --> 3:00:42.360 the final chant from the Saturday Gresham Park rally right 3:00:42.440 --> 3:00:47.080 before a thousand people marched to the Wallani Forest in Atlanta. 3:00:47.160 --> 3:00:47.959 We always in. 3:00:48.120 --> 3:00:49.200 With the asslogan. 3:00:49.760 --> 3:00:52.000 We're with the words of the love or. 3:00:51.959 --> 3:00:58.200 Assata Spoor because we have a tuning. There's been so 3:00:58.440 --> 3:01:04.080 much bliss built here. Repeat that to me, our duty 3:01:04.160 --> 3:01:16.080 to fight for our freedom to each other each other. 3:01:19.640 --> 3:01:22.240 I'm not gonna lose, but on change. 3:01:24.720 --> 3:01:35.360 I'm not gonna loose, Bonchin, I'm nothnna those but on Chinee. 3:01:37.560 --> 3:01:50.199 Say Music Festival audio courtesy of Unicorn Riot. 3:01:50.840 --> 3:01:51.000 Hey. 3:01:51.160 --> 3:01:54.240 We'll be back Monday, with more episodes every week from 3:01:54.280 --> 3:01:55.959 now until the heat death of the Universe. 3:01:56.560 --> 3:01:58.920 It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 3:01:59.160 --> 3:02:01.800 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:02:01.879 --> 3:02:05.000 Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 3:02:05.000 --> 3:02:07.520 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 3:02:07.959 --> 3:02:10.080 You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 3:02:10.160 --> 3:02:14.160 monthly at Coolzonmedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening,