1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,680
Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

2
00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:06,400
Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode, So every episode

3
00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,440
Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

4
00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,280
Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

5
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,800
Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

6
00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:17,720
Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

7
00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,479
Speaker 1: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

8
00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:21,800
Speaker 1: you can make your own decisions.

9
00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,000
Speaker 2: Other podcast fans. Today, it's me James, and I'm joined

10
00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,280
Speaker 2: by Cave Hoda, who's a doctor in the Bay Area

11
00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,040
Speaker 2: and also host of the House of Pod podcast, which

12
00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,920
Speaker 2: NEXTI podcast. For you to add to what you've done

13
00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,640
Speaker 2: listening this podcast, you can add that to your podcast rotation.

14
00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:47,479
Speaker 2: But we're talking today about medication abortions, and specifically about

15
00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:53,120
Speaker 2: attempts to ban medigation abortions by anti abortion activists, which

16
00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,760
Speaker 2: included a recent case at the Supreme Court. So, Cave,

17
00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,040
Speaker 2: would you maybe like you to add anything I'd missed

18
00:00:59,080 --> 00:00:59,840
Speaker 2: from your introduction?

19
00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:02,640
Speaker 3: No, yeah, that was pretty much all the good stuff.

20
00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,119
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. This is super fun. I

21
00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,920
Speaker 3: love all your podcasts. I like your work, so thank

22
00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 3: you for having me. And yeah, the topic is. It's

23
00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:18,560
Speaker 3: super duper important, and it is in the headlines a lot,

24
00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,040
Speaker 3: but at the same time, not enough, you know what

25
00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,040
Speaker 3: I mean. It's like people are talking about it a ton,

26
00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,040
Speaker 3: but I don't know if they're talking about it enough,

27
00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,080
Speaker 3: or if the gravity of the situation is really hitting people,

28
00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:33,800
Speaker 3: or if it is. We're just overwhelmed by how much

29
00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,240
Speaker 3: bullshit we've had to deal with in regard to this,

30
00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,160
Speaker 3: and people are kind of feeling a little bit beaten

31
00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,920
Speaker 3: about it and feeling a little bit disheartened. But I

32
00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,440
Speaker 3: am super glad that we're going to discuss it today.

33
00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:48,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think maybe it is bizarre, how I don't Yeah,

34
00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,120
Speaker 2: I think we're dealing with so much bullshit and every

35
00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,680
Speaker 2: day something terrible happens, and so I can understand how

36
00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,040
Speaker 2: this kind of came and went in the news cycle.

37
00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,760
Speaker 2: At the same time, it does seem like why the

38
00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:02,920
Speaker 2: fuck where they're not ten million people out in the

39
00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,080
Speaker 2: street to try to burn things down when like, like,

40
00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,440
Speaker 2: if you're listening to this and you don't think you

41
00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,959
Speaker 2: know anyone who's used this, it's most likely because someone

42
00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,000
Speaker 2: in your life hasn't shared that with you. Like I

43
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,280
Speaker 2: can think of more people than I can count on

44
00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,760
Speaker 2: my fingers who I care about very dearly who have

45
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:22,920
Speaker 2: used this absolutely.

46
00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,120
Speaker 3: Someone posted this once and I thought it was really

47
00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,280
Speaker 3: actually pretty brilliant. It was like, if you don't know

48
00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,240
Speaker 3: anyone that has, that means they don't trust you enough

49
00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,400
Speaker 3: to tell you, or they think you're a douche, So

50
00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,560
Speaker 3: like there's a reason you know.

51
00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:38,680
Speaker 4: So, yeah, it's it's very.

52
00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,959
Speaker 2: Common, right, and so I think maybe to start out with,

53
00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,000
Speaker 2: we should explain, like what is a medication abortion and

54
00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,600
Speaker 2: how does it work? And why is it so common?

55
00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:50,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll talk a little bit about that.

56
00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,040
Speaker 3: I think maybe we could touch a little bit on

57
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:54,880
Speaker 3: the history of it too, because I think it is

58
00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,720
Speaker 3: kind of interesting to look at it from a bigger perspective.

59
00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,760
Speaker 3: Medication abortions, they account for more than half of all

60
00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,120
Speaker 3: abortions nationwide. It's usually done. There are a couple of

61
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:07,680
Speaker 3: different ways of doing it, but the most common one

62
00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:11,720
Speaker 3: by far is a two drug combination mif for pristone

63
00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,440
Speaker 3: and misoprostol, and these are the ones. They are used

64
00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,280
Speaker 3: generally in the United States and in other countries as well.

65
00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,760
Speaker 3: You can use misoprostle alone, but it's just not as

66
00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:28,040
Speaker 3: effective as these two drugs together. Mifa prostone blocks progesterone

67
00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,720
Speaker 3: and what that is. It's a hormone that you need

68
00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:32,480
Speaker 3: to make the pregnancy happen.

69
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,520
Speaker 4: It makes the uterus a hospitable place for it to occur.

70
00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:37,840
Speaker 4: And we'll talk a little bit.

71
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:43,240
Speaker 3: I think about the the mifa prostone the misoprostole as well,

72
00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,120
Speaker 3: because that's a prostac land and they do a bunch

73
00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,400
Speaker 3: of things in the body, but one of them is

74
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,880
Speaker 3: to cause contractions of the uterus. In that that's two

75
00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:57,400
Speaker 3: these two drugs together. One makes the pregnancy less able

76
00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,320
Speaker 3: to progress and then the other one expels it. So

77
00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,960
Speaker 3: that's how these two medications work. What I think is

78
00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,520
Speaker 3: really interesting about them is a little bit of the

79
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:13,400
Speaker 3: backstory to it. So my understanding that there might be

80
00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,120
Speaker 3: some medical anthropologists or historians who know more about it

81
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,320
Speaker 3: than me. I'm sure that's the case, but it's you

82
00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,200
Speaker 3: have to put this all in perspective because when I

83
00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:28,640
Speaker 3: grew up, abortions were all invasive, surgical essentially, and it

84
00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,320
Speaker 3: was a you had to have it done in a

85
00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,440
Speaker 3: very specific manner. Now we have the opportunity and the

86
00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,520
Speaker 3: option to do it in a much I think safer,

87
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:43,720
Speaker 3: control less traumatic way. And you know, it kind of

88
00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:48,360
Speaker 3: started in Brazil because in Brazil, you know, I know,

89
00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,440
Speaker 3: because it doesn't make sense, right, but abortion is illegal there,

90
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,960
Speaker 3: as you might imagine, and women there, like women in

91
00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,000
Speaker 3: any place, are going to look for ways to have

92
00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,480
Speaker 3: abortions if they want or need one.

93
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:01,080
Speaker 4: And one of the.

94
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,560
Speaker 3: Things they would do is it basically go to like

95
00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,560
Speaker 3: a drug store or a pharmacy and they would look

96
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:12,720
Speaker 3: for medications that said beware, this could cause abortions. That's

97
00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:14,680
Speaker 3: that's one of the ways this all started. One of

98
00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,680
Speaker 3: those was mister prostal that medication I mentioned, that's a

99
00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,000
Speaker 3: prostaglandin Again, prostal glands do a lot of things. I'm

100
00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,520
Speaker 3: a gi doctor by trade, and you know from my perspective,

101
00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,040
Speaker 3: they're also used for treatment of ulcers, not really something

102
00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,840
Speaker 3: we go to that much or anymore, but there are

103
00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:32,760
Speaker 3: other uses for it. And so they found that it

104
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:34,760
Speaker 3: could cause these contractions of the uterus and they would

105
00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,599
Speaker 3: use it there for that purpose. The French were actually

106
00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,080
Speaker 3: the ones that worked on mifiprostone or RU four eighty six,

107
00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,560
Speaker 3: and that's the one that blocks the progesterone and stops

108
00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,839
Speaker 3: the pregnancy from progressing. So the background, I think is

109
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,599
Speaker 3: really interesting and how far it's come during this time.

110
00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,080
Speaker 3: You know, how it started when our use here, to

111
00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,960
Speaker 3: how it changed during COVID, I think is a really

112
00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,200
Speaker 3: fascinating thing. And where we're at now with these medications.

113
00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,440
Speaker 3: I can't we're gonna talk about it. I'm sorry, I

114
00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,960
Speaker 3: don't want to jump ahead, but I'm just so I'm

115
00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,880
Speaker 3: so upset, And I know I should be at this

116
00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,440
Speaker 3: point in my life much more used to like these

117
00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:22,200
Speaker 3: weirdly cynical bs moves of a Republican judge or whatever

118
00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,800
Speaker 3: promoting this as being a safety issue. I know I

119
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,479
Speaker 3: shouldn't be surprised and upset by it, but I am.

120
00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,359
Speaker 3: And that's the part that really bothers me right now

121
00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,320
Speaker 3: is the argument they're using against it is so bullshit

122
00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:37,720
Speaker 3: and cynical that.

123
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,560
Speaker 4: And again I don't think enough people are talking about it.

124
00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,599
Speaker 2: No, it is like I'm the same way, like I

125
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,160
Speaker 2: should be, a lot of my work has been border reporting,

126
00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:52,480
Speaker 2: and like I should by now be Like, no, I shouldn't,

127
00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,599
Speaker 2: because those people are fucking terrible. Like there's a group

128
00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:58,800
Speaker 2: of journalists who just seem to have lost their capacity

129
00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,479
Speaker 2: to care for other human being and can report on

130
00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,800
Speaker 2: human suffering without taking any toll on their on their

131
00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,400
Speaker 2: personal mental health, and they congregate on various Facebook groups

132
00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,720
Speaker 2: and in bars and expensive hotels all around the world.

133
00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:16,560
Speaker 2: And I don't like that. But like, similarly, a number

134
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:21,400
Speaker 2: of contive conservatives around word, like anti immigration States used

135
00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,000
Speaker 2: Title forty two. They soon to keep Title forty two right,

136
00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:29,440
Speaker 2: citing the risk of COVID nineteen from migrants crossing our borders.

137
00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,640
Speaker 2: And these are the same fucking people who have been like,

138
00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,160
Speaker 2: we don't want to wear masks, we shouldn't have vaccine mandates,

139
00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:41,920
Speaker 2: Like yeah, it is infuriating that they can't just be like, yeah,

140
00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,080
Speaker 2: I don't think you should have the right to bodily autonomy,

141
00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:45,760
Speaker 2: and I don't care how I get there, so I'm

142
00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:47,920
Speaker 2: just going to use this troll ass methodology.

143
00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:54,000
Speaker 3: It bothers me that there were doctors involved in this case,

144
00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,240
Speaker 3: the court case, and it does bother me that there

145
00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,600
Speaker 3: are doctors that are fighting this. I mean, I get

146
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,560
Speaker 3: it if not every doctor wants to do an abortion,

147
00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:08,120
Speaker 3: I totally understand that. But to not stand for a

148
00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,120
Speaker 3: woman's autonomy over her own body is the part that

149
00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,840
Speaker 3: I can't get. I mean, it's like it's I'm not

150
00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,040
Speaker 3: an ethicist by any means, but that's like the bare

151
00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,720
Speaker 3: minimum is like you're supposed to believe in someone's autonomy

152
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,360
Speaker 3: over themselves, and the fact that it's being removed piece

153
00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:28,120
Speaker 3: by piece it should be bothering doctors who are who

154
00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,120
Speaker 3: are supposed to be following ethics, you know what I

155
00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:31,440
Speaker 3: mean it.

156
00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,800
Speaker 4: So I'm also a little bit from that end.

157
00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,640
Speaker 3: I'm mad at our own I'm mad at our own people.

158
00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,680
Speaker 3: I'm mad at doctors and I and I am on

159
00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:44,400
Speaker 3: my little echo chamber in Twitter, where there's lots of

160
00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:45,960
Speaker 3: doctors who feel the same way I do, and I

161
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,840
Speaker 3: hear from them, but I know that it's kind.

162
00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,000
Speaker 4: Of there alone. I'm not hearing it from other doctors

163
00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,080
Speaker 4: out in the real world, you know, and not enough

164
00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:55,520
Speaker 4: at least.

165
00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, we should explain a little bit that like the

166
00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,160
Speaker 2: original case, the complainants were doctors, right, who were claiming

167
00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,400
Speaker 2: that they were having to treat complications that arose from

168
00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:08,160
Speaker 2: medication abortion. Is that right?

169
00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:09,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're a part of it.

170
00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:10,959
Speaker 3: I don't know how big a part of it, or

171
00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,720
Speaker 3: if they're just used because they're Like a lot of

172
00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,240
Speaker 3: times people for good or bad reasons, will bring a

173
00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,920
Speaker 3: doctor out in a white coat at like a press conference,

174
00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,080
Speaker 3: which is like, you know, like we're just wearing white

175
00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,280
Speaker 3: coats all the time, you know, and just the sand

176
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,320
Speaker 3: in the background and sort of add some sort of

177
00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,200
Speaker 3: weight to the argument. And so I don't know how

178
00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,760
Speaker 3: much of it was that in this situation, but I mean,

179
00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,320
Speaker 3: the argument that they're making that these medications are not

180
00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,559
Speaker 3: safe just it's a silly argument. I mean, we know

181
00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:45,080
Speaker 3: that the mortality rate for medical abortion is less dramatically

182
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,160
Speaker 3: than the mortality rate for childbirth. And that changes too

183
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,840
Speaker 3: depending on if you're like a white woman in a

184
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:55,480
Speaker 3: wealthy neighborhood or a black woman. There's different mortality rates,

185
00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,280
Speaker 3: but pretty much across the board it's going to be safer.

186
00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,480
Speaker 3: I mean, the chance so a serious complication is there.

187
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,320
Speaker 3: It can happen any medication. It can happen penicillin, it

188
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,199
Speaker 3: can happen higher rates. By the way viagra.

189
00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,640
Speaker 4: Viagra came out, there was the first year it came out,

190
00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,440
Speaker 4: there was about five hundred and fifty deaths from viagra.

191
00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:19,679
Speaker 3: We granted the cardiovascular problems patients had, whatever, but still

192
00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,760
Speaker 3: there was It's not without risk. You don't see any

193
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,760
Speaker 3: judge from Texas you know, coming out to talk about

194
00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:28,120
Speaker 3: viagra being an issue.

195
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,000
Speaker 2: No, I think you're right to highlight that, like being

196
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,280
Speaker 2: pregnant is also a risk, and much greater risk in

197
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,720
Speaker 2: many cases, especially like you said, because of these different

198
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,000
Speaker 2: intersectional things which can make it a greater risk for

199
00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,680
Speaker 2: some people. So I would love to talk about why

200
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,480
Speaker 2: these became more popular's the wrong way, but maybe more

201
00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:55,040
Speaker 2: widely used to facilitate abortions during coviduse. That's super interesting.

202
00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the long and the short of it is

203
00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,480
Speaker 3: when they first started doing these tests, I'm sorry, when

204
00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,760
Speaker 3: they first started doing these medication abortions, there was a

205
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,520
Speaker 3: bit of a process that had to go into it,

206
00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,720
Speaker 3: Like doctors were worried. I mean, we're always conservative. Doctors

207
00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,600
Speaker 3: are always conservative. We always start with like probably more

208
00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,480
Speaker 3: than it's absolutely necessary, and then over time we do

209
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,600
Speaker 3: enough research, we get enough like evidence behind us that

210
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,480
Speaker 3: we can peel back parts of it. So when it

211
00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,520
Speaker 3: first started, you know, people wanted ultrasounds, lab tests make

212
00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,400
Speaker 3: sure that they weren't people weren't mnemic or didn't have

213
00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,280
Speaker 3: a risk of bleeding. They wanted to make sure the

214
00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,000
Speaker 3: livers were okay, labs are probably weren't totally necessary. The

215
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,120
Speaker 3: ultrasound I think scared people a lot or people really

216
00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:42,959
Speaker 3: wanted there always be an ultraound just to make sure

217
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,079
Speaker 3: there wasn't like an ectopic pregnancy or a pregnancy or

218
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,920
Speaker 3: it doesn't occur where it's supposed to outside of where

219
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,360
Speaker 3: we expected to and those can be dangerous. And if

220
00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,720
Speaker 3: you do take these medications, you know, obviously you're going

221
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:56,839
Speaker 3: to be a bit more of a risk if you don't.

222
00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,200
Speaker 3: If you don't know, that's an ectopic pregnancy. So there

223
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,280
Speaker 3: was a lot of a lot of things that people

224
00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,320
Speaker 3: had to do back then. Then then started to peel

225
00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,599
Speaker 3: away slowly, like doctors might were starting to be like,

226
00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:09,199
Speaker 3: all right, do I really need to get liver tests

227
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,600
Speaker 3: if I'm going to give this patient a medicational abortion. Uh,

228
00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:14,640
Speaker 3: And those tests started to peel off slowly. And then

229
00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:19,600
Speaker 3: when COVID happened, basically people weren't able to go to

230
00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,000
Speaker 3: the doctor as much or as easily. There weren't doctor

231
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,400
Speaker 3: offices that were open. It was harder for people to

232
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,720
Speaker 3: get to in the beginning, you know, and it only

233
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,720
Speaker 3: got harder with COVID. So the ACLU actually sued the

234
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:37,280
Speaker 3: FDA and they actually won and through that the women

235
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,360
Speaker 3: did have to come in anymore for these They could

236
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,640
Speaker 3: all be done via like teleconference or a video chat basically.

237
00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,440
Speaker 4: Okay, so which is a big game changer.

238
00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:50,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes it much easier. And so

239
00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:52,280
Speaker 2: it used to be the case at least, so you

240
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,440
Speaker 2: could get these things in the mail, right particably after

241
00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,840
Speaker 2: some kind of teleconference or video chat. Is that still

242
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,600
Speaker 2: the Is that still the case in states where there

243
00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,520
Speaker 2: isn't like the strictest kind of abortion ban or is

244
00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:07,319
Speaker 2: it universal?

245
00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,480
Speaker 3: No, it's my understanding it's still, as of now possible.

246
00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:13,520
Speaker 3: It's still available. You're supposed to be able to do it.

247
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,920
Speaker 3: I think we're going to find that it's becoming more difficult.

248
00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:21,160
Speaker 3: We're already seeing cases. I mean they've been highlighted on

249
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,480
Speaker 3: social media. How often they're happening now, I don't know,

250
00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:27,000
Speaker 3: but there we see cases now of you know, a

251
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:32,679
Speaker 3: pharmacist not fulfilling medical abortion pills. And in the comments

252
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,240
Speaker 3: section when you look at why why not, they're saying

253
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,600
Speaker 3: because is now banned by a federal judge.

254
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,920
Speaker 4: So, I mean it's not true it was.

255
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,440
Speaker 3: The Supreme Court has you know, has okayed it for now,

256
00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,320
Speaker 3: I mean for now it's still okay and allowed, but

257
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,439
Speaker 3: there's gonna be enough confusion about it. There's going to

258
00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,880
Speaker 3: be enough worry about it that people are going to

259
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,839
Speaker 3: have a harder time doing it, getting it or.

260
00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,120
Speaker 4: Even finding you know, people that are willing to do it.

261
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,720
Speaker 3: At this point, there's probably a lot of concern from

262
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,320
Speaker 3: patients and medical providers. So, you know, even though it

263
00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:11,040
Speaker 3: is technically still allowed, I mean, I don't know how

264
00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,280
Speaker 3: for how long you know, I am worried.

265
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,160
Speaker 4: And also I.

266
00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,120
Speaker 3: Don't know if this is really hindered you know, people

267
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,680
Speaker 3: being able to access this, and I think it probably is.

268
00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it certainly hasn't made it smoother, as you said,

269
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,640
Speaker 2: right that it it only takes you know, one person

270
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,520
Speaker 2: to have delay of a number of weeks or whatever,

271
00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,320
Speaker 2: and it might not be an option or it might

272
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,440
Speaker 2: not be as safe. And how do you know how

273
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:38,960
Speaker 2: long how far along these these medical medication abortions are

274
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,960
Speaker 2: like generally advised, you.

275
00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:47,840
Speaker 3: Know, the medicational abortions are considered safe in the second

276
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,800
Speaker 3: and I think even parts of the third trimester, but

277
00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:56,600
Speaker 3: generally after the first trimester is when it's it's considered

278
00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,720
Speaker 3: a little bit more dangerous and most medical professional would

279
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:02,440
Speaker 3: want you to come in to have it done.

280
00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:05,320
Speaker 4: So, I mean that's my understanding.

281
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,440
Speaker 3: I'm not obigian, I should make that clear, but I

282
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,720
Speaker 3: think for for the most part, within the first trimester,

283
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,160
Speaker 3: people generally consider that's something that's manageable at home. Outside

284
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,960
Speaker 3: of that, I think you're probably more likely to have

285
00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,320
Speaker 3: the medical professional want you to come in and see them.

286
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense, and in some states it's going

287
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,440
Speaker 2: to be a lot harder, if not impossible, or countries

288
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,240
Speaker 2: like I know, for instance, I've come across groups in

289
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:37,200
Speaker 2: Myanmar were distributing these drugs. Abortion has been illegal, they're

290
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:42,240
Speaker 2: more or less for since British colonial rule. I think

291
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,440
Speaker 2: it was United as a as a sort of state,

292
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:51,120
Speaker 2: not really a nation. The it's been a it's been illegal.

293
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,160
Speaker 2: They've sort of made some moves towards it being less illegal,

294
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,120
Speaker 2: and then obviously with the with the coup, it's it's

295
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,080
Speaker 2: become more illegal again, and people there have been It

296
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,920
Speaker 2: was a website up in in twenty twenty one about

297
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,840
Speaker 2: how they facilitated mutual aid distribution of it, which I

298
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,720
Speaker 2: found super interesting. And then at some point they obviously

299
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:10,640
Speaker 2: that must have got them some heat and they took

300
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,680
Speaker 2: it down, but it's used all over the world in

301
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,880
Speaker 2: places where people don't have access to care, right alongside

302
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,760
Speaker 2: being used here where people may or may not have

303
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,480
Speaker 2: access to care, which is pretty fucked up.

304
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's funny that, like, you know, we're

305
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:31,560
Speaker 3: comparing ourselves. I mean, it's you would think twenty twenty three,

306
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,160
Speaker 3: we wouldn't be, you know, looking to other countries to

307
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,400
Speaker 3: guide us at this point. You would hopefully we would

308
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:42,320
Speaker 3: have figured this out by ourselves after everything. But yeah,

309
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,920
Speaker 3: I mean it's funny. You look at the historical you

310
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,720
Speaker 3: look at it from a global perspective, it is interesting.

311
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:49,800
Speaker 4: It's really a global effort to.

312
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,800
Speaker 3: Try and get these medications out to people. One of

313
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:58,080
Speaker 3: the major major companies that sends these pills and mails

314
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,400
Speaker 3: these pills is in Europe, and they try to to

315
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,360
Speaker 3: other countries. It is sort of a global effort at

316
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,560
Speaker 3: this point to try it, which is kind of cool.

317
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,080
Speaker 3: That's one good thing about this. It shows you that

318
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,520
Speaker 3: most of the world seems to be on board with this,

319
00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,919
Speaker 3: whether or not governments are or not. You know, I

320
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,320
Speaker 3: hear eighty percent here in the United States is it's

321
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,840
Speaker 3: for it. I mean, I think that sounds about right,

322
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,160
Speaker 3: you know, and the fact that there's so many people

323
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,000
Speaker 3: in the country and then the world trying to figure

324
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,600
Speaker 3: out ways to get these medications to people. That's one,

325
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,240
Speaker 3: I guess, sort of reaffirming thing about this.

326
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,480
Speaker 2: It's impressive to see people just doing ground streets to

327
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:39,160
Speaker 2: meet too laid. One thing that was very popular around

328
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:40,920
Speaker 2: the time of the Adobe's decision. A lot of people

329
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:46,040
Speaker 2: were sharing these videos on do it yourself abortion pills

330
00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:49,919
Speaker 2: or like homemade I think it was misaprosto, it may

331
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:54,840
Speaker 2: have been both. It may have been Mithipristoine as well. Obviously,

332
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 2: like this is empowering and like we want people to

333
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,320
Speaker 2: be empowered to extitgings about their own body, but perhaps

334
00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,640
Speaker 2: you could explain why, like it's also suboptimal.

335
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's it is definitely suboptimal. I mean

336
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,200
Speaker 3: I'm not every time I say something like that, there's

337
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,760
Speaker 3: always some corner of the Internet that's like, well, you're

338
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 3: a shill for big farm or you're like part of

339
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,240
Speaker 3: the medical industry or whatever, and yeah, sure whatever.

340
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,200
Speaker 4: But I mean it is it's a risk.

341
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,520
Speaker 3: I mean, these medications, like I said, they're safe, but

342
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,480
Speaker 3: they're not without risk. You know, there are things that

343
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,960
Speaker 3: can occur when you have this are contradications to some

344
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,320
Speaker 3: of these medications, like there's contradications to mif aprosta and

345
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,679
Speaker 3: like ectopic pregnancy like I mentioned, and you can get

346
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,239
Speaker 3: that worked up to be evaluated, or you could at

347
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,840
Speaker 3: least have the very basic questionnaire filled out that would

348
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,760
Speaker 3: help at least give you the hint if it's there.

349
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 3: Chronic adrenal failure, porphyria, inherited porphyria. These are things that

350
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:01,399
Speaker 3: are that doctors who do this think about and know

351
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,199
Speaker 3: and as part of the process to get these medications,

352
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,800
Speaker 3: even if it's just a questionnaire that you fill out online.

353
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,280
Speaker 4: So there there are risks.

354
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,720
Speaker 3: There are bad things that can happen with these medications,

355
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:13,919
Speaker 3: as there are with penicillin.

356
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:14,480
Speaker 4: Like I mentioned.

357
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,040
Speaker 3: I've seen people with, you know, life threatening allergies to

358
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,080
Speaker 3: to penicillin. I've seen people with who have liver failure

359
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,480
Speaker 3: from basic stuff that you know people take all the time,

360
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,919
Speaker 3: like tail and all. So you know, it's it's it

361
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 3: doesn't make me very nervous, and I like, do it yourself.

362
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,800
Speaker 3: Is I like that that people are trying to find

363
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,960
Speaker 3: ways around it. But and I hope we never get

364
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,679
Speaker 3: to a place where this is that's absolutely necessary. I

365
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:48,639
Speaker 3: hope you know, but I understand why people are curious

366
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 3: about it and why you're looking into.

367
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:51,359
Speaker 4: It and reading about it.

368
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,960
Speaker 3: I obviously I'm not going to ever really promote do

369
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,359
Speaker 3: it yourself medicine to that Farvard degree.

370
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, like someone, I use insulin every day, right, and

371
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,040
Speaker 2: people have been making their own insulin. I've seen on

372
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 2: the internet for for a long time, and I find

373
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 2: it super fascinating. Incident, also costs fuckle to produce, like

374
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,600
Speaker 2: like a couple of cents, and it costs hundreds of

375
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 2: dollars to buy. Folks can accuse me of being a

376
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,880
Speaker 2: shell for big Farmer, but I have plenty of publications

377
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 2: pointing in the other direction.

378
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:23,600
Speaker 4: You and me both, brother.

379
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, look at us, two guys just rigging in

380
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:29,520
Speaker 2: the pharma doel.

381
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:30,199
Speaker 5: That's it.

382
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's why I'm recording in this shed provided

383
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 2: by FISA. No, and yeah, there is. These things are

384
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 2: not expensive to make, they shouldn't be expensive to buy,

385
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,199
Speaker 2: and they can be had extremely safely. And the things

386
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 2: that are stopping you from accessing them cheaply and safely

387
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:55,160
Speaker 2: and easily are politicians and also pharmaceutical companies. Sometimes.

388
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 6: You know.

389
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,639
Speaker 3: That's the funny thing too, is that you think for

390
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,880
Speaker 3: like these right wing are always talking about like relaxing

391
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 3: regulations and whatever. It's like, I wonder if they recognize

392
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 3: that on some level, what this is doing is it's

393
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 3: just going to impinge on you know, quote unquote innovation

394
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,680
Speaker 3: in pharma. Like if you're a farm company and you're

395
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,359
Speaker 3: thinking about some medication that could be used for this,

396
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,160
Speaker 3: or you're thinking about creating a new medication for something

397
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 3: that could in the slightest way be deemed inappropriate by

398
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 3: some judge somewhere, and then if they're making the decision,

399
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,920
Speaker 3: not the FDA, Like if you're a farm industry, you

400
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:33,640
Speaker 3: may be like, it screwed. I'm not going to worry

401
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 3: about that medication at all, you know, nothing else.

402
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 4: This is going to cut back on innovation in pharmacy.

403
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like anything with a contry indication for being

404
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 2: pregnant would be vulnerable to this. Right, we should probably

405
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 2: explain that the use of myth of pristone as an

406
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 2: abortion drug was approved by the FDA in an expedited process, right,

407
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 2: and that was what was being challenged. Can you explain

408
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 2: why although it's faster that doesn't mean it's any less thorough.

409
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 2: In my understanding, I might be wrong. The FDA went like, yeah,

410
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 2: fuck it, let's give it a try and see what happens.

411
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:10,880
Speaker 3: No, I mean it's a very good question. I mean

412
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 3: we do have safety data behind it. So again, you're

413
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,400
Speaker 3: exactly right. This is not done in a vacuum. It's

414
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 3: not done haphazardly. I mean there is there still always

415
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 3: is a pretty strict process.

416
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 4: To go through for these medications.

417
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 3: It kind of it's the same thing that we had

418
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 3: to deal with with operation warp speed one of the

419
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:41,479
Speaker 3: worst names or a very important medical advancement. So, you know,

420
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 3: people like, how can these things be safe? It's happened

421
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,160
Speaker 3: so quickly, and it's not really true. I mean, there

422
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 3: is years of research behind all these things. There's years

423
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 3: of research behind it. There was a study from the

424
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 3: Newly Journal of Medicine about the safety of these abortion pills.

425
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 3: It had been studied worldwide and been looked at for

426
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,239
Speaker 3: a while. You know, because abortion is so common and

427
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 3: there are so many of so many done that it

428
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 3: makes it easier to see the results. It makes it

429
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 3: easier to see the numbers. Part of the reason we

430
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 3: were able to follow COVID so well and get information

431
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 3: so quickly. Was because it was everywhere, and when it's everywhere,

432
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 3: it does raise the numbers. It makes it easier to

433
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 3: get people enrolled in the study, it makes it easier

434
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 3: to make a study happen. So that's kind of what

435
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 3: was happening here. This is something that was there wasn't

436
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 3: a lot of question about. Again, are there risks to

437
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 3: the medication. Absolutely, there's risks to every single medication that

438
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 3: you get. I mean, I've heard toxicologists say that if

439
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 3: Thailand all had to go through the same vetting process

440
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 3: that we have medications go through today, that talanol wouldn't

441
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 3: make the cut.

442
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 2: Wow.

443
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,360
Speaker 3: And as a liver specialist to myself, I can attest

444
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 3: to that. I mean, how talanell is a great medication

445
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,199
Speaker 3: if it's used, but I've also seen it cause a

446
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 3: lot of liver failure. It's a very common cause of it.

447
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 3: So there's there's a pretty strict and there always is

448
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 3: a pretty strict method to the FDA when it comes

449
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 3: to this sort of thing.

450
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 2: It's not done haphazardly, right, and I think most of

451
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 2: the people attacking it and not attacking it from a

452
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 2: place of deep concern for the health of people who

453
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: can get pregnant. It's quite the opposite. It's an attempt

454
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 2: to control people's bodies, right, right.

455
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're not. These are the same people.

456
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 3: They're not concerned about the fact that the mortality rate

457
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 3: in like African American women who are pregnant is so

458
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 3: much higher.

459
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 4: They'll never hear them talk about that.

460
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 3: They don't give a damn, unless, of course, they want

461
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,360
Speaker 3: to somehow cynically tie this into like racism or something.

462
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 3: They'll find a way to twist it in this weird

463
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 3: way to be like, yes, you see Livprostone is racist

464
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 3: or something, you know, so I yeah, yeah, sorry.

465
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, it's cynical and asinine, empathetic, but sadly like

466
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 2: it's also the reality. Yeah, I wonder, like, obviously none

467
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 2: of us can see the future. And we've talked about

468
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 2: how mister prostal can be used on its own if

469
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken, right.

470
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not as good, it's not as good if

471
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 4: it's used together.

472
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 2: But yeah, do you foresee a world where like that

473
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 2: is targeted next?

474
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 7: Yeah?

475
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 3: I mean, if they're really serious about that, they're going

476
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 3: to try. I mean, I think at the end of

477
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 3: the day. We can keep zelots out of the Supreme

478
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 3: Court somehow.

479
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 2: Get a while before we get another crack at that.

480
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, then I think we should be okay, because I mean,

481
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 3: it's it's a bad argument. The argument doesn't really hold up.

482
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 3: I mean, some judge interpreting the medical data with or

483
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 3: without the help of some you know, quasi scientific group

484
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 3: of like pro life doctors. It's just not going to

485
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 3: hold up to what the FDA has done and has

486
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 3: to go through. So I don't I don't know, I

487
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 3: don't know. I want to say, I really want to say,

488
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 3: I don't think it's going to be an issue, but

489
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 3: I can't guarantee it because the fact that you know,

490
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 3: this is such a relatively safe drug and it's been

491
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 3: called the question, I mean, it's pretty brazen. I think

492
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 3: that they're doing this and well they do it against

493
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 3: other medications. Yeah, probably well win though I hope not.

494
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think this is setting they're setting basically

495
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 3: a roadmap for this to be done again and again

496
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 3: for medications they don't like.

497
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and those are all going the medications they that

498
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 2: like are all going to affect a certain group of people, right, Like,

499
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 2: that's right, that's just that seems to be the sort

500
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 2: of target group and for like you said, a very

501
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 2: small percentage of the of the population who are just

502
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,719
Speaker 2: on their culture or bullshit and don't really care how

503
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 2: this affects thousands of people's lives. Obviously, Like folks are

504
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 2: also facing like they can't access gender firming care and

505
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 2: lots of places, right, this is the other massive area

506
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 2: of healthcare that Republicans seem to be very willing to

507
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 2: ignore the some Democrats ignore the evidence on it and

508
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 2: just attack people for culture war reasons. And I know

509
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 2: that one thing folks do there is organized mutual aid

510
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: networks to help people access medications that they need for

511
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: their gender firm and care with medications like this is

512
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 2: it like like you said, there are lots of contraindications

513
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: and it's not always safe, Like are these things that

514
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,719
Speaker 2: people like people will be inclined and get to be like,

515
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 2: oh shit, maybe I should stock up, maybe I should

516
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 2: like load my medicine cabinet, and maybe we could discuss that,

517
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: like you said that there are risks that come alongside that.

518
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I certainly would understand if I was

519
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 3: in a position where I thought my bodily autonomy could

520
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 3: be going away anytime soon. I think I could see

521
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 3: why someone would stock up on it. I mean, I

522
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 3: don't know enough about the medication to tell you about

523
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 3: its shelf life. I know that it is just require

524
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 3: some special handling, So I don't know if it's the

525
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 3: kind of thing that you can keep for long periods

526
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 3: of time. But you know, at that part of it

527
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 3: was worked out, I certainly don't see. I mean, I

528
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 3: could see why you'd want it. Again, it comes down

529
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 3: to the do it yourself nature of it. Now, the

530
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 3: beauty of this is these what these what we've seen

531
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 3: with these medications is when we did the COVID, we

532
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 3: took it when COVID happened, and we kind of took

533
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 3: it out of the doctor's hands and made it more

534
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 3: directly to the patient.

535
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 4: Actually, the outcomes weren't much different. So that seems to

536
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 4: be a very reaffirming thing. But you know, I still

537
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 4: I would like for there to be medical involvement in this.

538
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 4: I would like doctors to be involved in this.

539
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 8: You know.

540
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, perhaps we are progressing towards a place where like

541
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: technology can help with some of that and take way

542
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 2: the liability from doctors in places where they could face

543
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 2: a long time in jail.

544
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, that's that's the other thing.

545
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: It's going to be interesting to see how this pans out,

546
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 3: like from doctors in the future, if there's gonna be

547
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 3: people still willing to learn these skills, you know, because

548
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 3: not every abortion can be done, you know, medically, still

549
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 3: going to be a need for for the the more

550
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: older fashion forms of abortion that's still going to need

551
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 3: to be done. So, you know, I'm hoping that people

552
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 3: are still going to be willing to learn from this,

553
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 3: and if anything, I'm actually hoping that people young medical

554
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 3: students are more interested to learn from it.

555
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 4: So we'll see how it goes. Like you know, when

556
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 4: when COVID.

557
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 3: First started, there was a huge burst of people interested

558
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 3: in medical school and going into facious disease. But then

559
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 3: you know, over time, and and in the ER for

560
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 3: that matter too, they saw the need for it, They

561
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 3: saw the call to arms, you know, and it took

562
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 3: three years of seeing what kind of bullshit ID doctors

563
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 3: and ER doctors had to deal with before those medical

564
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 3: school numbers dropped way off and people interested in those fields,

565
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 3: you know, in fact, er for people trying to go

566
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 3: into er, they have to go through this full match process,

567
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 3: which is like a big deal. Like it's a stressful

568
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 3: thing where you try to get into the best place

569
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 3: you can. And r has always been a pretty like

570
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 3: sought after field. It's not the most competitive, but you know,

571
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 3: there is there is a good amount of competition to

572
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 3: get into the good places. And this was like the

573
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 3: first year I remember where there was a ton of

574
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 3: unfilled spots at good institutions too, So, like you know,

575
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 3: how I do worry will this be the.

576
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:43,959
Speaker 4: Same sort of thing.

577
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 3: Will there be an uptick of people interested in women's

578
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 3: healthcare and and providing that vital that vital need. I

579
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 3: think there probably will be, But will it be sustained?

580
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 4: I don't know.

581
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 3: Will they just give up after seeing how much bullshit

582
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 3: has thrown their way. It's totally feasible.

583
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if you're looking, it has to be

584
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 2: like an idea, Like my sister is an obg wayn

585
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 2: and like does my sister doesn't live in the United States,

586
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 2: who doesn't have to deal with any of this bullshit,

587
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 2: and so like that very much enjoys a job and

588
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 2: it's very passionate about it. But I can see how

589
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 2: doing get here. It would have to be almost a

590
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 2: political idea or your commitment as well, Like you can't

591
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 2: practice your your your career in half the state. I

592
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 2: don't even know if you can go to medical school

593
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 2: in like states where it's banned, And like that's a.

594
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 4: Really interesting question.

595
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 3: I wonder if it will affect the medical training in

596
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 3: medical school. Yeah, in places where that's really interesting and

597
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 3: scary now that I think about it, it, Yeah, it's

598
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 3: gonna be.

599
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 4: It's going to be available for people.

600
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 3: There's always going to be organizations fighting to do this

601
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 3: and to get it out there. But how how hard

602
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 3: it's going to be to find a provider to help

603
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 3: you with this that in the future. I'm hoping U

604
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 3: does not become a problem.

605
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I did all these little sort of It's

606
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 2: really important, I guess like that folks do whatever they

607
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 2: can to preserve these rights because generally, like the state

608
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 2: doesn't give back power that it's able to take from people.

609
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 2: And this could mean a lot like this, And I'm

610
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 2: not like trying to conflate fucking having to have a

611
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 2: vaccine to breathe on someone and and like you know,

612
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 2: like that is not really attacking your body autonomy, like

613
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 2: you're attacking someone else's body autonomy if you want to

614
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 2: give them an effects disease, right, But when it takes

615
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 2: away things like this, they you know, like like that

616
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 2: has other consequences. Even if you're not a person who

617
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 2: can get pregnant and you don't think you're ever going

618
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 2: to be getting somewhat pregnant, like this should matter to you,

619
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: because your autonomy should matter to you.

620
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 3: It seems a matter to most of the people in

621
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 3: the country, So I mean, that's a part of this

622
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 3: I don't understand. I mean, I guess it's all ideologically driven,

623
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 3: but because it doesn't seem like a winning proposition if

624
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 3: you're a politician to do something this unpopular.

625
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 4: But I don't know much about politics, I suppose.

626
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, what is popular and what wins elections

627
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 2: in the United States can be vastly disparate things, as

628
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 2: we've seen, given the system which is deliberately organized to

629
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: befuddle the results of a popular vote.

630
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 5: Okavit.

631
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 2: I wonder if there's anything else you wanted to discuss

632
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 2: around this issue of abortion and bodily autonomy. Obviously it's

633
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 2: going to be one that plays out massively in twenty

634
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 2: twenty four.

635
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 3: But I want to make it clear. I mean, this

636
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 3: should be pretty evident my stance on it. But I

637
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 3: do believe abortion is essential and evidence based healthcare.

638
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 4: It's in that evidence based part of it.

639
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 3: I think is important to reiterate because we do have

640
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 3: data on it, we do have data that it is safe,

641
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 3: we do have data that it's safer than some of

642
00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 3: the other options. And if it's removed as option, we

643
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 3: are not only taking away, you know, a woman's right

644
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 3: to attimey over her own body, but we're putting them

645
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 3: at more health risks potentially for it. And you know,

646
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 3: I'm not an er doctor, I'm not obi gine, but

647
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 3: I can guarantee that they're going to have to deal

648
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 3: with a lot more problems because of this. If that happens,

649
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 3: They're going to be dealing with a lot more complications

650
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 3: and difficulties because of it.

651
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's one thing I wanted to hit that I

652
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 2: totally forgot about. I don't want to I don't want

653
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: to phrase this in terms of like people wanting to

654
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 2: end a pregnancy have any more or less right to

655
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 2: do so than people needing to end a pregnancy, because

656
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 2: everyone should have the right to choose what happens to

657
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 2: their body equally.

658
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, but.

659
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 9: I am.

660
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 2: I believe I'm right in thinking that many of these

661
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: drugs are relied upon by people who have miscarried or

662
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 2: have a pregnancy isn't compatible with life, right And.

663
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean the horror stories about women

664
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 3: that are forced to carry if you know, baby it's

665
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 3: a term that are not compatible with life, or you know,

666
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 3: a severe critical illness it's those are horrifying. And these

667
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 3: are medications that can be done again at home for

668
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 3: some For some patients it can be done at home,

669
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 3: which is you know, not great. You know, it's still

670
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 3: not gonna be maybe a fun process, but it'll be

671
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 3: a much better process for them, much less traumatic, I

672
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 3: would hope, you know, than having to to have it

673
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,839
Speaker 3: done later on and in a hospital in a much

674
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 3: more clinical, cold setting. And we try to make these

675
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 3: things as good as possible. Our nurses are amazing, and

676
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 3: our doctors who do this are are compassionate.

677
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 4: But you know, if someone could do something.

678
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 3: Safely at home, you know, and it can be done safely,

679
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 3: I don't see why not.

680
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it can. The dignity and privacy of your own

681
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 2: sting where you to use your home or you know

682
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 2: whatever with your family. Then yeah, I suppose being forced

683
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 2: to carry a baby which isn't compatible with life like

684
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 2: that's got to really fuck you up. And it's I

685
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't think people are thinking about what

686
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 2: they're doing to other people when they make these these

687
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, horrible decisions, but yeah, I hope they

688
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 2: didn't get to keep making them. I guess we can

689
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: all interpret that however we want. Are there any Are

690
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 2: there any organizations that you'd suggest folks follow get involved with,

691
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 2: like their groups that are helping to facilitate access to care,

692
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 2: either where it's difficult or just trying to campaign to

693
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:40,439
Speaker 2: keep it legal.

694
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 3: You know, I know there's been a lot of criticisms

695
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 3: in the past towards its organization from all sides, But

696
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 3: you know, I've known a lot of people who work

697
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 3: for Planned Parenthood, and I still think they do good work.

698
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 4: You know, They're not perfect by any means, and they have.

699
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 3: Valid criticisms from both from really from from a couple

700
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 3: of different angle but still, the people I know that

701
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 3: are working there are aren't doing their best and are

702
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 3: really want to help.

703
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 4: And then there are international organizations still.

704
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 3: That are involved in the abortion making the abortion pill accessible,

705
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 3: and there's a lot of different ways to get to that.

706
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 3: I don't have one in particular that I would recommend,

707
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 3: but the one that I have worked with people that

708
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 3: I've met in seen and talked to and have learned

709
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 3: so much from a lot of those people are from

710
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 3: Plant Parenthood.

711
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, yeah, And like you said, they have been

712
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 2: criticized that they've also stepped up to meet like what

713
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 2: is a pretty terrible situation, and they're building more clinics

714
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 2: on the borders of states where you don't have the

715
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 2: right to terminate your pregnancy so that people can travel.

716
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 2: And yet it's pretty fucked up that that's what we're

717
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: doing now we have the underground railroad for abortion kind

718
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 2: of thing. But yeah, I mean it takes a big

719
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 2: organization to deal with the organization that is the state

720
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 2: or you know, the state of Texas or whatever. It's

721
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 2: done really well. Is there anything like you'd like to

722
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: plug or do you like to tell people where they

723
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 2: can find you?

724
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 3: So I'm available on Twitter at the House of Pod

725
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 3: if you do Twitter, and you can listen to our podcast,

726
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 3: The House of Pod it's pretty much everywhere you find

727
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 3: your podcast, and guests range from like world Expert physicians

728
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 3: to like Garrison Davis, so like you.

729
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 4: Know, contrasting those two things. They're an expert of their

730
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:39,399
Speaker 4: own way.

731
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 3: And and I'm sure I'll get you on soon enough,

732
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 3: whether you like it or not.

733
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 4: And so we get a lot of the different guests.

734
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 3: The range is pretty wide, and we talk about medical

735
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 3: related health topics and try to do it in a

736
00:38:54,600 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 3: relatively informal way, and so it's I think it's relatively fun.

737
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 3: It's been really educational for me. I'm really enjoying doing

738
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 3: it and I get to be cool people like you.

739
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 3: So it's a good show, I think. But I'm biased

740
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 3: because it's my show.

741
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 2: I enjoy it. People should listen. Thank you, Thank you

742
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 2: very much, Thanks a lot.

743
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 9: Mate.

744
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: Hey everybody, this is Robert Evans. Welcome to It Could

745
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: Happen Here, a podcast about things falling apart and occasionally

746
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: about how to stop things from falling apart. Today we're

747
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: doing one of those latter episodes. I'm happy to say

748
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: we've actually got kind of something that's overall uplifting to

749
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,240
Speaker 1: talk about. If you are someone who pays much attention

750
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: to the right wing, and particularly to the current right

751
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: wing campaign against LGBT and most particularly transgender people. You

752
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: are aware of a guy named Matt Walsh. He is

753
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: a you might call him a pundit at the Daily

754
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: Wire who has taken it upon himself to become kind

755
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: of one of the central figures in the present campaign

756
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: against trans people, to limit their rights to transition, to

757
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: push laws that criminalize their existing in public spaces. He's

758
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: a real piece of shit on, one of the worst

759
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 1: people in the country presently, and like all terrible people,

760
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: he has been going around in a series of speeches

761
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: invited generally by local student body republican organizations at universities.

762
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: It's not the only people who invite him to speak,

763
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: but that's what we're talking about today. Oliver Wyline is

764
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: a local community activist who showed up at one of

765
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 1: these events and who recorded what was happening the reaction

766
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 1: to Matt Walsh being invited to speak at a college

767
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: in Iowa City. And yeah, Oliver, welcome to the program.

768
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 4: First off, Yeah, thank you so much for having me on.

769
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: And yeah, I just kind of wanted you to start with,

770
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 1: how did you become aware of what was happening and decide,

771
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: you know, to show up and do what you did,

772
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 1: because I became aware of you just reading your thread,

773
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: which was a mix of you know, Twitter uh posts

774
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: on what was happening in some videos of what had

775
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: been happening on the ground.

776
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

777
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 10: So I am a towney here in Iowa City. I'm

778
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 10: not a student, but I have you know, I'm very

779
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 10: close both physically and you know, just personally with lots

780
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 10: of activists on campus at Iowa City, lots of young activists,

781
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 10: particularly organizations like the y DSA. They have a couple

782
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:42,280
Speaker 10: immigrants rights associations, some lgbt q IA associations and everything.

783
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 10: So when this was made public that the YAF the

784
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 10: Young Americans Foundation, that's what it stands for, right I think.

785
00:41:54,560 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 10: But they announced that Matt Wall was indeed going to

786
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 10: be speaking in April, and of course, you know, lots

787
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 10: of people just started sending me things like Wow, I

788
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 10: can't believe these motherfuckers are bringing Matt Walsh out of everybody,

789
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 10: even though it wasn't very surprising because they love to

790
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 10: have the YAF here loves to bring people to speak

791
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 10: that are objectively terrible people. They just recently had al

792
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 10: Alan West.

793
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I'm sure you know all about him.

794
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, he's yeah, yeah, playing the hits with

795
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 1: Alan Dubbs.

796
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 11: Yep.

797
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 10: So yeah, the reaction was, you know, just kind of

798
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 10: like a general we should do something about this, that

799
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 10: Matt Walsh has come to campus or is going to

800
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 10: come to campus. So you know, there was lots of

801
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 10: flying campaigns, lots of calls online. There is a petition

802
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 10: circulating trying to get the university to not allow Matt

803
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 10: Walsh on campus. But here in Iowa, the board of

804
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 10: regents is all just appointed by a Republican governor, Kim Reynolds,

805
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 10: so you know, there's no way that they would do that.

806
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 10: And yeah, so that's how everybody found out about it.

807
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 10: And you know, it was just a lot of the

808
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 10: YAF would put up flyers and then they would instantly

809
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,280
Speaker 10: get torn down and they would cry about it. Yeah,

810
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 10: that was a lot of the build up to this event.

811
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's how I knew.

812
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: And one of the things, I mean, the thing that

813
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: because obviously there are different right wing shitheads speaking in

814
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: various places and protests against them, you know every day

815
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: that go a variety of ways.

816
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 8: One of the.

817
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: Reasons I was interested in what you had to say

818
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: and I think that this is a worthwhile one to

819
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: talk to people about. Is that I think the Young

820
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: America's Americans Foundation kids who invited him wound up demoralized

821
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:56,879
Speaker 1: at the end of this. That was my take on this.

822
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: This is not an event that seems to have gone

823
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:00,879
Speaker 1: well to them. So I want you to walk through

824
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: kind of what happened that night, both in terms of

825
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: what you saw from the folks showing up to see

826
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: Walsh and what you saw kind of from the response

827
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 1: to him.

828
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 10: Yeah, I would say it's a fair assumption that the

829
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 10: YAF people were demoralized after this. So the protests, it

830
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 10: was last Wednesday, the nineteenth, and the protest was very

831
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 10: you know, there was no leader. It was very decentralized,

832
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 10: you know, just lots of people showing up and instantly

833
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 10: when everybody showed up, like at four o'clock, when the

834
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 10: documentary was showing before Matt Walsh was going to speak

835
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 10: his you know, shitty documentary What Is a Woman showed beforehand. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

836
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 10: it was like a joyous occasion almost People just were

837
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 10: trickling in on the park right across the street. From

838
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 10: the IMU and more and more people, just hundreds of

839
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 10: people came, you know, not just students, but like people

840
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 10: from Iowa City and Cedar Rapids and you know, just

841
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 10: eastern Iowa in general that were just like, we do

842
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 10: not you know, we're feeling really bad that this absolute

843
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 10: fucking shithead is in our state right now. You know,

844
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 10: the air smells bad, so we got you know, yeah,

845
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:15,760
Speaker 10: So it was it was very joyous, and then people

846
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 10: were like, Okay, the documentary is about to get out.

847
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 10: And the way this event was set up was the

848
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 10: documentary was being shown in a theater that's in the IMU,

849
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 10: the Memorial Union, just a student hangout spot basically, and

850
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 10: then all the people that were in the documentary were

851
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 10: going to then file into the main lounge whereas where

852
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 10: he was speaking. And so when the documentary got let out,

853
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 10: all the activists or just the people that came to

854
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 10: protest him, we're just like, all right, we're going inside.

855
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 10: You know, We're not we're not gonna, you know, just

856
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 10: stand out here. You know, We're going to make sure

857
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 10: that they know every second that this is bullshit that

858
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 10: you came to see this guy speak, and especially in

859
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 10: Iowa city. This isn't going to fly, you know, without

860
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 10: some type of resistance. So everybody that lined up for

861
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 10: the Matt Walsh speaking event and who came out of

862
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 10: the theater after watching his documentary had to wait in

863
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 10: line and be screamed at by protesters for like an

864
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 10: hour at least. And it was so funny just these people,

865
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 10: like they started out at first, you know, for a

866
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 10: few minutes being like haha, look at all these triggered libs.

867
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 10: But then after like twenty minutes they were just kind

868
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 10: of like thousand yards staring, you know.

869
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that's really interesting to me because obviously, like

870
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,720
Speaker 1: one of the particularly with the younger right right, you know,

871
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,919
Speaker 1: I think there is sort of a dividing line, both

872
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 1: in my head and in physical behavior between kind of

873
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:57,319
Speaker 1: like older and maybe even less radical Republicans who are

874
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 1: really tied to this idea of the silent and get

875
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: a degree of emotional comfort from the idea that most

876
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: people do think like them, they just don't want to

877
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: talk about it. And then there's sort of not an

878
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 1: entirely separate, but certainly much more common attitude among the

879
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 1: younger right wing activists, people who were raised online in

880
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 1: places like four Chan about the where a lot of

881
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 1: their focus is on the joy of triggering the left,

882
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: which they see as like controlling the culture to a

883
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: large degree. And so it's interesting to me, you know,

884
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 1: that's something that these people like to talk about a lot.

885
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: They like to at least portray themselves as sort of

886
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: above caring, but very few people are capable of like

887
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 1: just being screamed at by a crowd of people and

888
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 1: not feeling shitty after a while. That makes a lot

889
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: of sense to me.

890
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean it was definitely breaking through to a

891
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 10: lot of them, I could tell, And I even heard

892
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 10: some conversations amongst them, like very taken aback and like

893
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 10: in shock, you know, like voice shaking when talking about it,

894
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 10: just like why are they doing this? You know, I

895
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 10: mean like putting two and two together. Like it was

896
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 10: very fascinating to hear to eavesdrop on these conversations, and

897
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 10: it was a lot of that, and it was also well,

898
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 10: one thing that happened is I don't know if they

899
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:23,720
Speaker 10: oversold tickets or just didn't track like how many people

900
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 10: were going to be there, but half of the people

901
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,720
Speaker 10: that showed up to see Matt Walsh, I would estimate

902
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 10: about half half of them were not able.

903
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 4: To go see him.

904
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,399
Speaker 10: They were told they were keeping track of how many

905
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 10: people were going into the main lounge, and then just

906
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 10: randomly they were just like, all right, that's it. You know,

907
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 10: the cops there and the staff and the Matt Walsh's

908
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 10: private security, which I will say there was more private security,

909
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 10: or there was more security there in general than when

910
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,359
Speaker 10: Mike Pence spoke at the exact same place, at.

911
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: Least obvious security with Pench.

912
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,280
Speaker 4: More obviously more obvious security.

913
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, and you know they had bomb snipping dogs and everything.

914
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: Oh wow, interesting, yep. Do you know how full the

915
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: actual theater was.

916
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 4: The YAF claims seven hundred.

917
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: People, and what's capacity for them, I.

918
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 10: Don't exactly know, but they said that seven hundred people

919
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 10: were able to see Matt Walsh. And then so I

920
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 10: would say more people came to see Matt Walsh, like

921
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 10: maybe a thousand or something. That's another number that the

922
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 10: YAF threw out there. Yeah, but I would say there

923
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 10: was at least an equal amount of protesters there at

924
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 10: its peak too. And I will also say that there

925
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:44,879
Speaker 10: were people keeping track of the cars leaving when they

926
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 10: were able to leave, and there was a considerable amount

927
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 10: of out of state plates and out of county plates.

928
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 10: People traveled pretty far to see Matt wallsh speak is

929
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 10: kind of and there were people that showed up that,

930
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 10: you know, the right wing weird was that I know

931
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 10: that live in Des Moines, which is like two hours away,

932
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 10: and even some in Omaha that came that I recognized personally. So, yeah,

933
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 10: people came pretty far for this, and a bunch of

934
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 10: those people that came pretty far were not able to

935
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 10: see Matt Wall speak, and they were extremely pissed. And

936
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,359
Speaker 10: so I was watching a lot of these people yell

937
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 10: at staff and trying to bargain with police officers like

938
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 10: come on, we drove, like let us in and everything.

939
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 10: The cops were just not having it, and so the

940
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 10: mood turned pretty angry.

941
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 12: At that point.

942
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 1: I would say, I'm interested in sort of are you

943
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,280
Speaker 1: aware kind of like who was organizing the counter response

944
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: and how that was. People were like informed that there

945
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:47,919
Speaker 1: was going to be something, because you know, it's it's

946
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,959
Speaker 1: not usually a simple matter to get that folks. Many

947
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: folks to show up around one thousand for a counter protest.

948
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think mainly there were multiple student orgs. I

949
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 10: think I named them a little bit earlier that you know,

950
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 10: there was the Graduates Union, a Coggs Union, a graduate

951
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 10: students union. They put out a statement inviting you know,

952
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 10: not only their members to come, but everybody to come.

953
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:14,280
Speaker 4: They do a lot of good work around the university.

954
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 10: The why dssay the Young Democratic Socialists of America. They

955
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,760
Speaker 10: have a chapter here and they were organizing. They did

956
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 10: heavy flyering campaigns around town, not just campus, but around

957
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 10: Iowa City itself. And on top of that, I would

958
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 10: say just sharing liars and word of mouth like on

959
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:41,919
Speaker 10: the internet too. People know that Matt Walsh is kind

960
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 10: of public enemy number one when it comes to the

961
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 10: LGBTQ community, specifically the trans communities. So I think a

962
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 10: lot of people were just extremely pissed that he was

963
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 10: here in this town.

964
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 4: In Iowa City.

965
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 10: People call Iowa City a gayer town than San Francisco.

966
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 10: Have referred to Iowa City as that.

967
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: I don't know, if high bar it is San Francisco

968
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: is a very gay town.

969
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:08,839
Speaker 10: Yeah, well if you Iowa City people call it little

970
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 10: San Francisco for that reason.

971
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,879
Speaker 1: That's sweet. I don't think I've actually been to Iowa City.

972
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:17,320
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean it is definitely the place in Iowa

973
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 10: where it is, you know, eastern Iowa. It's considered the

974
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 10: lib part of Iowa, but specifically Iowa City. People call

975
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 10: it the People's Republic of Iowa City because like the

976
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 10: right wingers think it's so left wing here, but in

977
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 10: reality it's our city council is run by like Pete

978
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:39,360
Speaker 10: Boota Judge supporters, but you know, to them, that's communism. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

979
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 10: So I think just the spirit of Iowa City in general,

980
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 10: like everybody was just pissed that this guy was coming

981
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 10: to town, and everybody found out one way or another,

982
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 10: and yeah, people showed up and showed out for sure.

983
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: When it comes to like, uh kind of confrontations and stuff,

984
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 1: how would you describe sort of the uh, the general

985
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 1: mood towards that sort of behavior outside Like, was this

986
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 1: the kind of thing where there was there uh action

987
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 1: sort of taken beyond like the yelling, or was it

988
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:14,360
Speaker 1: kind of like, uh, mostly focused on demoralization and providing

989
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: kind of a visual show of how much resistance there

990
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 1: is to Walsh in his ideas well.

991
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 10: After a lot of them were denied entry, I think

992
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 10: a lot of them were extremely pissed off. And at

993
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 10: that point I saw a bunch of old like, not

994
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 10: a bunch, I would say, a handful of almost scuffles

995
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 10: breaking out. The couple I saw were definitely the fault

996
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 10: and instigated by Matt Walsh attendees, because you know, they

997
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 10: probably drove really far and weren't able to get in.

998
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 10: And now you've got all these people with trans flags

999
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 10: screaming at you and calling you a Nazi and a

1000
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 10: fascist and that you're a piece of shit, you know.

1001
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:56,839
Speaker 5: And so.

1002
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 10: But there was a lot of people and a lot

1003
00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 10: of cops that were really, really really wanting to make

1004
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:07,840
Speaker 10: sure that that didn't happen. So after these people weren't

1005
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 10: allowed in, they were being escorted towards the back entrance

1006
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,399
Speaker 10: where they came in. And so they all went back

1007
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 10: towards the back entrance, and that is when somebody or

1008
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 10: some people I didn't see it, I only heard it

1009
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 10: dumped thousands and thousands of marbles by that exit.

1010
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was my favorite thing that I saw on

1011
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:28,439
Speaker 1: your thread.

1012
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, So then the cops were like, well, shit, sorry, guys,

1013
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 10: you can't come this way, So you have to go

1014
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 10: back through the gauntlet of screaming protesters to get out.

1015
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 5: I love that.

1016
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:42,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, area denial, taking a ya area denial and also

1017
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: kind of rerouting them from an area that's going to

1018
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 1: force them to confront the least pleasant aspect of it.

1019
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's very smart exactly.

1020
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 10: And then even after that, lots of people were going

1021
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 10: to like the way the imus set up. There's a

1022
00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:00,439
Speaker 10: park by it, and there's also a parking garage right

1023
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 10: across the street from it, and there's a one way

1024
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 10: out of the parking garage, so there's one way out

1025
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 10: if you parked in the parking garage. And towards the

1026
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 10: end of his talk and when everybody was filing out

1027
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 10: of the Matt Walsh event, protesters had completely taken over

1028
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 10: that street. So there was no way any of these

1029
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 10: people were getting out. They just kind of like came

1030
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 10: out in a giant like horde of people. And then

1031
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:30,280
Speaker 10: they slowly started realizing, you know, since all these people

1032
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 10: were blocking the street and there is a pet band

1033
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 10: in the middle of the street playing you know, yea,

1034
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 10: they were starting to understand that, oh shit, we're not

1035
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 10: going to be able to leave. So a lot of

1036
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,919
Speaker 10: them were really mad about that, and they started going

1037
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 10: up to police officers and staff saying like, you got

1038
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 10: to get these people out of here.

1039
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 4: I'm trying to leave, you.

1040
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 10: Know, and the cops there was only like outside, I

1041
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,799
Speaker 10: would say, there was only like seven police officers and

1042
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 10: there is no way. Like the cops tried to get

1043
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 10: people to move out of the street. They even put

1044
00:55:59,960 --> 00:56:01,919
Speaker 10: their hands on some people to try to move them,

1045
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 10: but then forty more people would just get in the street,

1046
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:06,720
Speaker 10: and so they realized that that wasn't going to happen.

1047
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:12,240
Speaker 10: So after going through a gauntlet of protesters and stepping

1048
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 10: over marbles, you know, these people are then also not

1049
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 10: able to leave the event when they want to, and

1050
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 10: I would say the road was blocked probably for like

1051
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 10: an hour hour fifteen minutes until the police were finally

1052
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 10: able to kind of like wedge a way out for

1053
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 10: these people. And that's when one confrontation that I know

1054
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:38,280
Speaker 10: happened where one of the Matt Walsh attendees started shining

1055
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 10: a strobe light in people's faces and someone put a

1056
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 10: sign in front of it to stop them from doing that,

1057
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 10: and then that person grabbed the other person and there

1058
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 10: was kind of a fight that happened, But that was

1059
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 10: the only physical confrontation that I saw the entire night,

1060
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 10: besides cops putting their hands on protesters trying to get

1061
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 10: them out of the street at one point.

1062
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 1: So what would you say, we're kind of the main

1063
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 1: takeaways from this for people. You know, this is going

1064
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 1: to continue to be a thing if folks are looking

1065
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 1: at participating in or organizing responses to events like this

1066
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: in the future. What were your kind of big takeaways.

1067
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 1: My takeaways is that marbles obviously great idea. Marbles, Yes,

1068
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 1: marbles are a great idea, you know, But also what

1069
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 1: I think is kind of worth taking from that is

1070
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 1: that like it's not enough. We often see this when

1071
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: like different tactics go viral. Don't like do the cargo

1072
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: cult version of it? Right, The reason why the marbles

1073
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 1: were effective wasn't just that like it made an exit inaccessible.

1074
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: It's that because it made it was in a situation

1075
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 1: where it rerouted people back through that screaming gauntlet of

1076
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 1: counter protesters, which was demoralizing. So strategy is also like

1077
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: worth taking into account when you're adopting new tactics.

1078
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, certainly, And from how it seemed to me is

1079
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 10: that that was intentional, that it was meant to block

1080
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 10: that exit, so they had to go back through the

1081
00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 10: screaming people to get out.

1082
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

1083
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 10: You know, marvels are funny, but it was deployed in

1084
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 10: such a way where it was even more funny, yeah.

1085
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 4: And effective.

1086
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 10: A takeaway that I had was that, you know, there's

1087
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 10: always going to be risk with this type of thing,

1088
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 10: risk of you know, risk of anything really, you know,

1089
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 10: physical harm, emotional harm, people getting in trouble at school

1090
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 10: or something. But I think these kids and a lot

1091
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 10: of these attendees went there expecting to own the libs

1092
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 10: and then walked away really demoralized, you know, And so

1093
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 10: I think it was definitely worth it to put our

1094
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 10: bodies on the line and everything and put ourselves on

1095
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 10: the line to just send that message and also make

1096
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 10: it clear that other people can do this too. And

1097
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 10: Matt Walls speaks, you know, just make it miserable. You know,

1098
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 10: you don't even necessarily have to prevent him from speaking,

1099
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 10: even though that would be pretty cool. But even though

1100
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 10: he did speak, like, no one's talking about that, and

1101
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 10: no one's.

1102
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 4: Talking about what he said.

1103
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 10: People are talking about how all the Matt Walsh people

1104
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 10: got stranded and how there were marbles that blocked their exit.

1105
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 10: And how the pet band came and played to a

1106
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 10: cadence of Buck Matt Walsh you know, yeah, yeah.

1107
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 1: All right, was there anything else you want to talk

1108
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 1: about before we roll out?

1109
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 10: I'd say that about does it for me, unless you

1110
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 10: have any more questions about specifics of the night.

1111
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 1: No, thank you for coming on, Oliver. Is there any

1112
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 1: sort of plugs you've got for anything you want to

1113
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 1: direct listeners towards before we end?

1114
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 10: Yeah, there's an organization around here called Iowa Trans Mutual

1115
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 10: Aid that does a lot of really really really good

1116
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 10: work for people in the state of Iowa that currently

1117
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 10: is experiencing, like so much of the country, really really

1118
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 10: really bad anti trans legislations. So if you find it

1119
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 10: in your heart or have the means to donate to

1120
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 10: such an Iowa Trans Mutual Aid, I really I really

1121
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 10: can't recommend it enough.

1122
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 4: Awesome.

1123
00:59:57,480 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much, Oliver, and a big thank

1124
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 1: you to everybody who showed up that night in Iowa City.

1125
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 1: That is it for us today. Everybody, have a great

1126
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 1: rest of your day.

1127
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 4: All right, thank you so much.

1128
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 5: Welcome to Take It Happened here a podcast about the transgenocide,

1129
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 5: because it keeps happening and so we keep having a

1130
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 5: new episodes about it because it just gets worse. Yeah,

1131
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:36,920
Speaker 5: I'm Mia Wong with me as James.

1132
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 2: I'm yeah, I'm excited to hear more about what people

1133
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:43,960
Speaker 2: are doing to trans people in different partsitive country.

1134
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, the answer is not good.

1135
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 2: So okay, at about.

1136
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 5: Five am this morning, I was watching a video from

1137
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 5: last year, and you know, I had this line about

1138
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 5: how like there's been one hundred anti trans bills in

1139
01:00:55,880 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 5: twenty twenty two alone, and like, oh oh boy, that

1140
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 5: is a quaint figure from a more civilized age. We

1141
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 5: are three months into twenty twenty and there's been five

1142
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 5: hundred anti trans bills across the country.

1143
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,439
Speaker 2: That was a Freudian slip. We have three years into

1144
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, my friend.

1145
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 5: Oh god, yeah, twenty three that one, which I guess

1146
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 5: it won't work out like this, But technically, speaking of

1147
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 5: this pace continues, we're on track for what. Yeah, we're

1148
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 5: on track for I think two thousand this year, which

1149
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 5: would be great.

1150
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 2: Heyce, Yeah, it's good. We'll be rebing Mansona by November.

1151
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 5: Now. Most of these bills, have we've talked about before,

1152
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 5: are going to fail, but a lot of them haven't.

1153
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 5: And the other sort of aspect of this. I think

1154
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 5: it's been less reported on, but is also extremely important.

1155
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 5: Is that. Okay, so if you want to do anti

1156
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 5: trans bullshit, you have like three options. Basically, you have

1157
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 5: you try to get a bill through the legislature, You

1158
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 5: have the governor doing a and date or something, and

1159
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 5: then you have the attorney general doing some bullshit. And

1160
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 5: our first story from the front lines of the worst

1161
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 5: shit that's happening is from Missouri, where Missouri's Attorney General

1162
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 5: Andrew Bailey has issued a quote emergency rule that claims

1163
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 5: that because gender affirming care is quote experimental, it's already

1164
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:29,440
Speaker 5: banned by state law, which is nonsense, but it gets worse.

1165
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's worth like addressing this shit

1166
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:33,920
Speaker 2: head on because it's such so clearly bullshit. But like,

1167
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 2: we have more than a century of people seeving gender

1168
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 2: firming care and auditioning. It's it's like people, people, television

1169
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 2: is more experimental than gender affirming care. Yeah, like this stuff,

1170
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:49,960
Speaker 2: like aeroplanes are more experiment This stuff predates the Nazis,

1171
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 2: Like it's like it's old. Yeah, it definitely predates passenger flight.

1172
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 5: Yeah. Like so okay, I mean that there's like a

1173
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 5: standard turf argument though, is that it's like, oh, it's experimental.

1174
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 5: It's like, now it's not okay, so these rules are

1175
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 5: oh boy, okay, here's from so I think it was

1176
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 5: Saint Louis. Yeah, the city government of stint Lewis put

1177
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 5: out a thing about it that was basically like, this

1178
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 5: is bullshit. They said, quote the Interney General's Emergency Regulations

1179
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 5: institute extreme restrictions that require one medically documented gender just

1180
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 5: for you for three years, to at least fifteen consecutive

1181
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:30,439
Speaker 5: therapy sessions over eighteen months, and three that all mental

1182
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 5: health conditions are treated and resolved prior to gaining access

1183
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:38,840
Speaker 5: to gender affirming care. There's also this section that is

1184
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 5: I'm just gonna read it. I don't have any words,

1185
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 5: I don't have any analysis for this, so it's saying

1186
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 5: like you can't have care. That quote fails with respect

1187
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 5: to a patient who is a minor to ensure that

1188
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 5: the patient has received a comprehensive screening at least annually

1189
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 5: for social media addiction or compulsion, and has not for

1190
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 5: at least six months prior to the beginning of any

1191
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 5: intervention suffered from social media addiction or compulsion. So wow. Yeah. Now,

1192
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:12,960
Speaker 5: so the good news is that this rule is supposed

1193
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 5: to go into effects, like before this episode is recorded,

1194
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 5: it was there instantly. There are a bunch of lawsuits.

1195
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 5: It's been blocked by a judge until May fifteenth, so

1196
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 5: hopefully the judge will be like, this is obviously illegal,

1197
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:28,440
Speaker 5: not holding out hope for that.

1198
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 4: This is.

1199
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 5: Probably the worst law in the books anywhere in the

1200
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 5: country right now. Maybe we'll also I'll show you the

1201
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 5: other really bad one and what we'll see. But okay,

1202
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 5: so the notable thing about this law is that this

1203
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 5: is not just a band from minors. This is for everyone.

1204
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 5: And you know, there's lots of atrocious stuff in here, right,

1205
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 5: Like if you have autism, for example, and there's a

1206
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 5: bitfy thing about screening for autism. If you have autism,

1207
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 5: you cannot transition Jesus, and you know, and then you

1208
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:01,439
Speaker 5: know there are right, even if you're like a ninety

1209
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 5: nine year old on your fucking deathbed, you can't transition

1210
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:07,680
Speaker 5: unless you feel fill all of these bullshit requirements. There's

1211
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 5: this like there's a social media compulsion thing, which is

1212
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 5: this sort of bizarre like social contagient bullshit that these

1213
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 5: people have been spreading for a.

1214
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 2: Long time, especially given like where the fuck do we

1215
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 2: think their trans panic comes from? It's because they logged

1216
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 2: onto Facebook and you're racist. Uncle Joey had posted to

1217
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 2: think about like how Twitter is transing his niece's gender.

1218
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know, and like all of this stuff

1219
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:34,040
Speaker 5: is very like we're getting into we're getting into the

1220
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 5: part of this where it's just sort of like they're

1221
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:42,600
Speaker 5: like copying and pasting turf rants into like laws. The

1222
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:45,960
Speaker 5: mental healthcare thing is like just awful.

1223
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 8: You know.

1224
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:48,200
Speaker 5: For example, if you have depression, one of the reasons

1225
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 5: you might have depression if your trans is because you

1226
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:52,920
Speaker 5: have dysphoria. So you're caught in this loop. If you

1227
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:54,800
Speaker 5: try to get care for the depression, you can't get

1228
01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:57,919
Speaker 5: like treatment for the dysphoria. What if you get treating

1229
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:00,120
Speaker 5: for the dysphoia, you can't get it for the depressions, right.

1230
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're totally alienated from getting care. And like I'm

1231
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 2: sure living in a fucking state which is trying with

1232
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 2: surgical precision to force you to pick which way you

1233
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 2: want to be suffering. It's not like great for your

1234
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 2: mental health to be like being a trans person in

1235
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 2: Missouri would be pretty hard, given that the state is

1236
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 2: taking or its powers to stop you getting anything of care.

1237
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 5: And you know, I mean everything that's about this is

1238
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 5: like the therapy requirement, the fifteen therapy things over eighteen

1239
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 5: months is just effectively a ban because you know, do

1240
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 5: you know how fucking hard it is to get an

1241
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:40,360
Speaker 5: appointment with a gender therapist, Like it is so like

1242
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 5: there are we are talking about something where there are

1243
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 5: optimistically dozens of these people for an entire state. It

1244
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 5: is fucked. It is so bad even in states where

1245
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 5: it's legal. Right this this is sort of the grim

1246
01:06:57,520 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 5: joke of like the anti trans canard that like it's

1247
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 5: too easy for kids to get gender firming care and

1248
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,840
Speaker 5: they're giving out hormones like candy. It's like, no, no,

1249
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 5: it's really even in states where it's legal to get

1250
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 5: gender firming care, it's hard as fuck, takes forever and

1251
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:12,840
Speaker 5: is expensive, and you know, given how through few therapists

1252
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 5: there are and how hard it is to clear these requirements,

1253
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:17,439
Speaker 5: the Missouri rule is just effectively a ban on gender

1254
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:21,400
Speaker 5: ferman care for everyone. Now it's been stayed for now,

1255
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 5: but this is really bad. People are fleeing the state,

1256
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 5: we're gonna talk more about trans refugees yeah later, But

1257
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 5: you know, basically every state that has passed one of

1258
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 5: these laws has refugees already. I know, I personally know

1259
01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 5: multiple people who fled multiple states. Yeah, it's really fucking bad.

1260
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 5: It's also you know, I mean, like it is genuinely

1261
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 5: important to make sure that people get supported and make

1262
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:55,920
Speaker 5: sure people have a way out. It's also not a

1263
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 5: solution because there's just going to be new trans kids

1264
01:07:58,360 --> 01:07:59,760
Speaker 5: born into these states.

1265
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:03,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, we can't fix it by the existing

1266
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 2: trans people leaving, and like obviously those people have their

1267
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 2: friends in their family and their community there. Like we

1268
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:11,720
Speaker 2: didn't fix it by them getting someone completely different.

1269
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, so now we're gonna move to the next state

1270
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:18,519
Speaker 5: where shit's happening that this one, I don't know. The

1271
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 5: stuff that's happening in Kansas is also like, okay, relative

1272
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:27,320
Speaker 5: to the amount of media attention it's gotten, this is

1273
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 5: the worst thing that's happening in absolute terms, it's unbelievably bad. Okay.

1274
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:35,120
Speaker 5: So there's a bill in Kansas that people are calling

1275
01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 5: a bathroom bill, and they're calling it that because bathroom

1276
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:39,880
Speaker 5: bill is the terminology that they have This is not

1277
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 5: a bathroom bill. We need to be very clear about this.

1278
01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 5: This is way, way, way, way fucking worse than a

1279
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 5: bathroom bill. So this is a bill that what it

1280
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:54,839
Speaker 5: does is in the eyes of the state, it legally

1281
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 5: assigns you a gender by defining male and female in

1282
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:01,559
Speaker 5: all states, in all state laws as and I'm going

1283
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:04,760
Speaker 5: to let the legislature take it from here. Women are

1284
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 5: those who quote biologically whose biological reproductive system is developed

1285
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:14,640
Speaker 5: to produce OVA, and men are those quote whose biological

1286
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:18,120
Speaker 5: reproductive system is developed to fertilize the OVA of a female.

1287
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:22,559
Speaker 5: Which hey yeah, hey Radfams, I hope you're fucking happy.

1288
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:24,960
Speaker 5: Now you've gotten the state to legally define your gender

1289
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:27,600
Speaker 5: as based on your reproductive capacity.

1290
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've great job. Feed run of the fucking what's

1291
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:33,599
Speaker 2: the thing where they will wear the bonnets?

1292
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1293
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1294
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 5: And here here's it just intersects people kind of exist.

1295
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:43,640
Speaker 5: You're fucking it's worse, Okay, So again here here's kas NT,

1296
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:47,600
Speaker 5: which is a news outlet in Kansas. In addition to restrooms,

1297
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:51,800
Speaker 5: the legislation would define words like women, man, mother, and

1298
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 5: father are in areas like athletics, prisons, or other detention facilities,

1299
01:09:56,439 --> 01:10:01,639
Speaker 5: domestic violent centers, rape crisis centers, locker rooms, and quotes

1300
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 5: other areas where biology, safety or privacy are implicated that

1301
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:07,360
Speaker 5: could result in separate accommodations.

1302
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:09,799
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ.

1303
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:13,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, so supposedly this is going to be on a

1304
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:16,200
Speaker 5: case by case basis, but you know, like this is

1305
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:18,759
Speaker 5: going to lead to trans women being put in Ben's

1306
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:21,320
Speaker 5: prisons where they will be raped and almost certain like

1307
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:24,479
Speaker 5: almost certainly will be raped, quite possibly will be killed

1308
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:28,439
Speaker 5: because that happens all the time. You know, this is

1309
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 5: i mean, like kicking trans women out of domestic violence

1310
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:35,720
Speaker 5: centers and rape crisis centers when you know, and this

1311
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:38,400
Speaker 5: is going to happen, and you know, similar like bullshits

1312
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:41,320
Speaker 5: gonn happen to trans men and also to non binary

1313
01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:44,640
Speaker 5: people who all of whom are abused and assaulted at

1314
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:49,639
Speaker 5: rates that are fucking indescribable. I mean, there is also

1315
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:51,720
Speaker 5: the bathroom bill shit, and like the worst version of

1316
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:55,479
Speaker 5: bathroom billshit we've ever seen. And you know, but also

1317
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,120
Speaker 5: so this is not the only one of these bills.

1318
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:00,600
Speaker 5: That's what we'll talk about. The other one in Montana

1319
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:04,680
Speaker 5: and a little bit. But because the Kansas Republicans are

1320
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:07,479
Speaker 5: somehow even more cretnius than their colleagues in Montana. They

1321
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 5: have written the bill in such a way that, in

1322
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 5: the words of Pink News, quote definitions outlined in the

1323
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:16,240
Speaker 5: bill also state that a female the female is a

1324
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:20,040
Speaker 5: person who produces over in other words, eggs. Meeting sis,

1325
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:22,839
Speaker 5: Women who are infertile and are unable to produce eggs

1326
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 5: could be barred from spaces under the legislation's legal terms.

1327
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 2: Likewise, sis, man, I guess yeah, it's it's yeah, like

1328
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 2: or like you have like fucking had an accident or

1329
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:42,799
Speaker 2: you know, like yeah, you know, and and it's bullshit,

1330
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:46,519
Speaker 2: like it pointing out the logical errors. It doesn't really

1331
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:49,080
Speaker 2: work because that's not really the point, is it. Like,

1332
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:51,759
Speaker 2: like that point is not to be like logically found,

1333
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 2: it's to be cruel.

1334
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:55,840
Speaker 5: Yeah. But but but I think there is something very

1335
01:11:55,840 --> 01:11:58,720
Speaker 5: important about this, which is that this this is a

1336
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:02,200
Speaker 5: very very firm example of how the struggle for trans

1337
01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:05,439
Speaker 5: rights and sort of you know, like trans bodily autonomy

1338
01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 5: is intimately connected with the struggle with abortion rights. Because

1339
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:11,480
Speaker 5: if you look at what's happened here right, Republican lawmakers

1340
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:14,400
Speaker 5: are literally defining women by their by their capacity to

1341
01:12:14,439 --> 01:12:19,000
Speaker 5: produce children for them. Yeah, so you know this is

1342
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 5: this is not like the these are these are two

1343
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:25,680
Speaker 5: very very interconnected struggles and the same people have the

1344
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 5: same absolutely dog shit like horrific patriarchal politics in both

1345
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:34,880
Speaker 5: of them. So okay, so we're we're gonna we're gonna

1346
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:37,200
Speaker 5: leave camp in Nebrette. Okay, so we've we've had two

1347
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:38,880
Speaker 5: really grim stories in a row. We're gonna have one

1348
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:43,439
Speaker 5: that saw less grim, which is Nebraska. So okay, there

1349
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:46,160
Speaker 5: has been a bill to ban genuaryfirmin caare for minors,

1350
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 5: but it is being staved off, basically single handedly by

1351
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:53,120
Speaker 5: the genuinely heroic efforts of state Senators Megan Hunt and

1352
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:57,559
Speaker 5: Michelle Kavanaugh, who have been philibustering literally every bill that

1353
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:00,719
Speaker 5: goes through the State Senate the stopman from happening, which

1354
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 5: fucking rips. Yeah, and like you know, because basically the

1355
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:05,600
Speaker 5: things like we will, we will, we will fill a

1356
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 5: buster literally every single bill until they stop trying to

1357
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 5: patch this band through. And you know this is the thing. Okay,

1358
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:12,000
Speaker 5: So like there was there was a thing that happened

1359
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:15,640
Speaker 5: in the early twenty tens where in the US, like

1360
01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 5: they're the big US Senate, Right, they change the rules

1361
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:19,800
Speaker 5: about philibustering so that you don't actually have to stand

1362
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:23,920
Speaker 5: there and talk for eight hours because they're fucking cowards

1363
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:27,800
Speaker 5: and almays pieces of shit. Uh in that is not

1364
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 5: true in Nebraska. If you want to fill a buster

1365
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:32,240
Speaker 5: a bill, you have to fucking stand up there and

1366
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 5: talk for eight hours. And they have been doing this

1367
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 5: for months. Yeah, and it's it's it's it's holding that

1368
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:41,760
Speaker 5: you know. Basically, So the way philibuster works where it

1369
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:44,439
Speaker 5: is you can't kind of like in the Senate, and

1370
01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:46,719
Speaker 5: then also in the state Senate, you can't stop someone

1371
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:50,040
Speaker 5: from talking unless they like dream debate. You can't stop

1372
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:52,120
Speaker 5: someone talking unless you get a two thirds vote of

1373
01:13:52,160 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 5: the body for emotion to cloture. So they've just been

1374
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:56,800
Speaker 5: forcing you to do it for every single bill, and

1375
01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:58,040
Speaker 5: they don't have the votes in some of the bills.

1376
01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:00,960
Speaker 5: So yeah, you know, and the reason I think this

1377
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 5: is this is happening, you know, the reason that they've

1378
01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:09,040
Speaker 5: been doing this and not sort of just like doing

1379
01:14:09,080 --> 01:14:11,280
Speaker 5: bullshit like most of the Democrats. Well, partially it's because

1380
01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:13,600
Speaker 5: there's a Senate and partially because Senator Hunt has a

1381
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:17,080
Speaker 5: twelve year old trans son yeah, which yeah, has has

1382
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 5: given her, you know, a sort of urgency that's absent

1383
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:20,799
Speaker 5: from Democrats and other states.

1384
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is theoretical for her.

1385
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:25,960
Speaker 5: Yeah. And I mean, like, this is one of the

1386
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:27,760
Speaker 5: things that sucks about this right is like it it

1387
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:32,880
Speaker 5: should not fall on you know, like literally the trend,

1388
01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:36,040
Speaker 5: like the rights of the children of an entire state

1389
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 5: are falling on like one mom and the few other

1390
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 5: Democrats who decided to take a stand with her, And

1391
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:46,600
Speaker 5: that's fucked. That is nonsense.

1392
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:55,320
Speaker 2: Like it's yeah, it's great that she's doing it, but like, yeah.

1393
01:14:52,680 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 5: This is this is horrible. Yeah. Do you know what

1394
01:14:56,200 --> 01:14:57,040
Speaker 5: else is horrible?

1395
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:03,720
Speaker 2: A is it the product services that support podcast.

1396
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 5: By FTC regulations. I don't think I can legally say that, but.

1397
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:09,080
Speaker 2: No, no, we do, don't know, it's not not that.

1398
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, and we're back. Okay, So now we're gonna get

1399
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:16,479
Speaker 5: to I think the most famous story or most most

1400
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:19,840
Speaker 5: well known story of an anti trans fight that's been

1401
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:25,639
Speaker 5: happening recently, and that is Montana. So Montana has passed

1402
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:29,200
Speaker 5: a bill that bands gender for macare from binners and

1403
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:32,360
Speaker 5: also opposes legal sanctions anyone who does it. Governor greg

1404
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:36,240
Speaker 5: Giofanti like has a non binary son who's he they

1405
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:39,759
Speaker 5: and he like gave a speech it was like dad,

1406
01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:44,680
Speaker 5: fucking don't sign these bills, and his dad signed them. Anyways. Yeah,

1407
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:47,400
Speaker 5: one of the co sponsors of this bill, on the

1408
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:51,040
Speaker 5: floor of of of the Montana House said she'd rather

1409
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:55,320
Speaker 5: her children die in transition and then had it yeah yeah,

1410
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 5: And she had to give a press commence later saying

1411
01:15:56,920 --> 01:15:59,639
Speaker 5: she didn't actually mean that, but like, no, she that's

1412
01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:01,840
Speaker 5: literally what she said on the floor of the fucking house.

1413
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:05,760
Speaker 5: So these people are ghouls and monsters. They are the

1414
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:11,200
Speaker 5: dogs of the sort of the Republican Freedom Caucus, which

1415
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:17,640
Speaker 5: is their like absolutely deranged like Matt Gates fucking weirdos

1416
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:20,160
Speaker 5: in Congress who are if you remember that giant fight

1417
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:21,960
Speaker 5: over the speaker of the house, like that was those

1418
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:26,120
Speaker 5: freaks like the Yeah, these people are like their local

1419
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:30,639
Speaker 5: sort of like dogs. There's two other absolutely terrifying bills

1420
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:33,639
Speaker 5: that are about to become law. There's HB three fifty nine,

1421
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:36,479
Speaker 5: which is a ban on kids attending drag shows, which

1422
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:40,200
Speaker 5: like that bill has gotten less bad than it was,

1423
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 5: which is it's now a ban on kids attending adult entertainments.

1424
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:45,599
Speaker 5: But you know, guess he gets to decide what adult

1425
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:48,679
Speaker 5: entertainment is eta, et cetera. Right, yeah, and that bill

1426
01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:51,200
Speaker 5: has passed both the House and Senate is waiting for reconciliation.

1427
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:54,960
Speaker 5: There is the even worse SB four fifty eight, which

1428
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:58,000
Speaker 5: is basically the bill from Kansas, except I'm just gonna

1429
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:00,600
Speaker 5: read some of it. Female. He is a member of

1430
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:04,360
Speaker 5: the human species who, under normal developments, has produced xx

1431
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:08,880
Speaker 5: chromosomes and producers, and would produce regular, relatively large, immobile

1432
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:12,800
Speaker 5: gammeys or eggs dreen her life cycle, and has reproductive

1433
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:15,400
Speaker 5: and endocrine system oriented around those production of gammes. An

1434
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:18,519
Speaker 5: individual who would otherwise fall within this definition but for

1435
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:21,840
Speaker 5: a biological or genetic condition, is female. So this is

1436
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:24,120
Speaker 5: straight turf shit, right. This is the straight up like

1437
01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:27,160
Speaker 5: a woman as an adult human female thing that like, yeah,

1438
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 5: these people walk around saying thinking is like a normal

1439
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:32,480
Speaker 5: thing to say, oh.

1440
01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:35,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, and thinking that like specifically the chromosonality thing we

1441
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:37,360
Speaker 2: know has been bull shit for a very long time.

1442
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:40,040
Speaker 5: There was nonsense. These people don't underst biology.

1443
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:44,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, yeah, and we can like the example is

1444
01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:47,719
Speaker 2: this woman called Mario Jose Martinez Patino, who is a

1445
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:52,280
Speaker 2: hurdler who won a number of events and then lost

1446
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:56,719
Speaker 2: her medals because she failed a chromosonality test and fucking

1447
01:17:56,760 --> 01:17:59,880
Speaker 2: ruined her life right, lost her fiance, lost her job,

1448
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:03,040
Speaker 2: lost all her competitions, and was able to successfully sue

1449
01:18:03,080 --> 01:18:05,120
Speaker 2: with the help of leading experts in the field, to

1450
01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:07,960
Speaker 2: prove that like I think she had like mosaics, she

1451
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:12,040
Speaker 2: exhibited mosaicism like xx y, and that like this is

1452
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:15,600
Speaker 2: in fact a normal fucking variation in the human species.

1453
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:17,880
Speaker 2: And like this was in the eighties and we're still

1454
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:18,599
Speaker 2: doing this shit.

1455
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:19,200
Speaker 8: Yeap.

1456
01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 2: Her papers are really good, by the way, she's a

1457
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:26,639
Speaker 2: professor of philosophy. Now, oh cool, Yeah, yeah, she's yeah,

1458
01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:28,559
Speaker 2: she's great. I specator a few times, but.

1459
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:32,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, rare rare w. Yeah. But like these people are

1460
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 5: doing you know, like they are you know this this

1461
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:39,760
Speaker 5: this this bill legally rights trans people out of existence,

1462
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:42,519
Speaker 5: and it is again another one of these gender pariograph

1463
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:45,479
Speaker 5: things where this the state is legally defining what gender

1464
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:48,479
Speaker 5: you are. But also you know, but again, like they

1465
01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:51,360
Speaker 5: have to do all this like bullshit, because you know,

1466
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:53,080
Speaker 5: there's other thing I said, like these guys, these people

1467
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:57,160
Speaker 5: are like slightly I don't know smarter is the right word,

1468
01:18:57,200 --> 01:19:00,599
Speaker 5: but they're slight there. They're slightly more engaged in turf shit.

1469
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:05,840
Speaker 5: So they have a more convoluted, like biological misconception of

1470
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:09,000
Speaker 5: what a woman is, which they can't define because it's

1471
01:19:09,080 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 5: not a thing, like.

1472
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a social constructagy yeah, because they can't society. Yeah,

1473
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:17,000
Speaker 2: And put in mind of South Africa constantly chasing the

1474
01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:20,640
Speaker 2: fucking definition of what race was and like trying to

1475
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:24,720
Speaker 2: define like a multi racial kids into one box or

1476
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:25,439
Speaker 2: another box.

1477
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:27,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's you know, it doesn't work. But the problem

1478
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:28,840
Speaker 5: is this bill is going to be signed by the

1479
01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:33,600
Speaker 5: governor like next week, probably possibly this week, like in

1480
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:35,320
Speaker 5: the next couple of weeks, is going to be signed.

1481
01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:40,760
Speaker 5: So that's really fucking bad. So the part of the

1482
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:43,600
Speaker 5: story that thinks the most well known is Montana Republican's

1483
01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:49,440
Speaker 5: crusade against Montana House Rep. Zoe Zephyr. Zoe Zephyr is trans.

1484
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:51,840
Speaker 5: She is a Rep for a part of Missoula, which

1485
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:54,479
Speaker 5: is a college town home to the University of Montana.

1486
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:57,960
Speaker 5: We talked about this a bit when Zoe won her seat,

1487
01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:00,280
Speaker 5: but I really before we really get into what's been

1488
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:01,960
Speaker 5: happening to Zoie, I want to talk a bit about

1489
01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:05,960
Speaker 5: Missoula and a bit about the sort of the geography

1490
01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:11,360
Speaker 5: of transmigration, because the way the media talks about this,

1491
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:15,600
Speaker 5: right is that you know, transmit like trans trans refugees

1492
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:18,080
Speaker 5: and transmigration is something that started with these anti trans bills,

1493
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:23,320
Speaker 5: And that's not true. This is this, all of this stuff,

1494
01:20:23,439 --> 01:20:27,000
Speaker 5: all of the sort of fleeing, all the refugee stuff,

1495
01:20:27,240 --> 01:20:32,479
Speaker 5: predates Tennessee, it predates Missouri. It's always been happening, yeah,

1496
01:20:32,640 --> 01:20:35,800
Speaker 5: you know, because and the the actual process of this

1497
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:39,160
Speaker 5: is that, you know, for for generations and generations, the

1498
01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:41,400
Speaker 5: retcht of the earth get fed to the wolves, and

1499
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:43,040
Speaker 5: then the wolves spit them out of their homes and

1500
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:48,000
Speaker 5: their communities, and they fled. They fled to places like Portland,

1501
01:20:48,200 --> 01:20:52,040
Speaker 5: in Philadelphia, in Atlanta and Chicago, places where people like

1502
01:20:52,120 --> 01:20:54,120
Speaker 5: us had clawed out in existence in a world that

1503
01:20:54,160 --> 01:20:57,559
Speaker 5: wants us dead, where we countinuously survive off the shit

1504
01:20:57,680 --> 01:21:00,519
Speaker 5: end of urban labor markets. And this is something that

1505
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:02,560
Speaker 5: has happened beneath the notice or even the contempt of

1506
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:04,960
Speaker 5: BOSHWS society. But it's been going on for longer than

1507
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:06,920
Speaker 5: we've had words that we've had the words that we

1508
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:10,200
Speaker 5: used today to describe it. And you know, Missoula is

1509
01:21:10,240 --> 01:21:11,720
Speaker 5: one of those places where you can go when your

1510
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:13,800
Speaker 5: family kicks you out, and then you know and that

1511
01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:15,680
Speaker 5: that's not the only way people end up here, right,

1512
01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:18,240
Speaker 5: Like there's a lot of people who you know, you know,

1513
01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:21,080
Speaker 5: have better stories, right they go to college, they discover themselves.

1514
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:23,880
Speaker 5: There are people who go here because it's where they've

1515
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:27,120
Speaker 5: chosen to make new lives. And you know something, there's

1516
01:21:27,160 --> 01:21:29,840
Speaker 5: also just people who are from Missulu who just realize

1517
01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:32,880
Speaker 5: their trans and you know, it's this mix of sort

1518
01:21:32,960 --> 01:21:37,559
Speaker 5: of trans refugees, transmigrants and the local trans community that

1519
01:21:37,960 --> 01:21:41,040
Speaker 5: you know all fuse together and becomes a sort of

1520
01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:44,320
Speaker 5: beautiful community that we've been you know, has finally like

1521
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:49,160
Speaker 5: stepped out of the shadows in the last like ten years.

1522
01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:52,200
Speaker 5: And you know, and this is why it's not enormously

1523
01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:54,800
Speaker 5: surprising that Missoula sent Zoe's efforts to all let it

1524
01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:56,559
Speaker 5: to represent them, because this is, you know again like

1525
01:21:56,600 --> 01:22:00,719
Speaker 5: this is one of these places that like collects people

1526
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:03,639
Speaker 5: from all over Montana and you know, from all over

1527
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:06,320
Speaker 5: like eastern Washington too. Some of these people go to Seattle,

1528
01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:09,519
Speaker 5: some of these people go to Portland's but yeah, they're there.

1529
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:13,160
Speaker 5: There have always been these massive networks of migration that

1530
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:16,080
Speaker 5: just you know, no one ever, no one researches, no

1531
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:19,560
Speaker 5: one talks about, no one even It's it's hard to

1532
01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:22,360
Speaker 5: even know they exist unless you know the people who

1533
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:26,640
Speaker 5: like have been moved along them. The product of this

1534
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:30,000
Speaker 5: now is that Zoe zephyr is Trans is in the

1535
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:32,040
Speaker 5: you know, on the floor of the House debating with

1536
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:36,639
Speaker 5: Republican legislatures this bill to uh uh like ban health

1537
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:40,280
Speaker 5: care for for like trans youth, and she says, quote,

1538
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:43,280
Speaker 5: if you vote yes on this bill and yes on

1539
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:45,800
Speaker 5: these amendments, I hope the next time there's an invocation

1540
01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:47,920
Speaker 5: when you bow your hands in prayer, you see the

1541
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:51,439
Speaker 5: blood on your hands, which I really wish because I mean,

1542
01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:53,000
Speaker 5: it talks about the blood on your hands. Thing costs,

1543
01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:54,680
Speaker 5: and I wish they read the whole quote because it

1544
01:22:54,720 --> 01:22:57,640
Speaker 5: fucking rips like it's great.

1545
01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:00,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you need to do you. There's no

1546
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:02,559
Speaker 2: fucking point in bourgeois civility with this stuff.

1547
01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:04,680
Speaker 5: Is that that's noo. And then and this is what

1548
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:05,759
Speaker 5: has been one of things that's been happening.

1549
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:05,880
Speaker 13: Right.

1550
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:08,680
Speaker 5: It's like like the Republicans, their backlash that this been

1551
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:11,240
Speaker 5: has been a sort of like, oh, you're not being

1552
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:14,479
Speaker 5: civil thing right and like in uh like Senator Hunt

1553
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:20,679
Speaker 5: in uh uh Nebraska was like literally didn't actually literally

1554
01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 5: say fuck you. But you know, like I said, like yeah,

1555
01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:25,080
Speaker 5: like no, I'm I'm not gonna I'm not gonna like

1556
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:27,519
Speaker 5: show up to like your like your dinner parties or whatever,

1557
01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:29,439
Speaker 5: like like you don't don't say hi to me in

1558
01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:32,519
Speaker 5: the halls, like you know, my fucking kid, and you

1559
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:34,040
Speaker 5: know what you're doing to them.

1560
01:23:34,240 --> 01:23:36,000
Speaker 2: That's the way to approach it, right, like like the

1561
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:40,680
Speaker 2: person trying to legislate your little trans son out of existence.

1562
01:23:41,040 --> 01:23:43,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was like fuck these people, they're gonna do

1563
01:23:43,200 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 5: this ship. Okay. So there's a couple of theories as

1564
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:49,040
Speaker 5: to why what happened next happened next. There's been a

1565
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:51,120
Speaker 5: lot of speculation that it's been like, oh, this is

1566
01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:54,560
Speaker 5: like a gambit by the the the Freedom Caucus to

1567
01:23:54,920 --> 01:23:57,519
Speaker 5: like turn Zoe's ephyr into like the face of the

1568
01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:00,160
Speaker 5: Montana Democratic parties they can win a Senate race. Like

1569
01:24:00,200 --> 01:24:04,559
Speaker 5: I actually don't buy that. I think very specifically the

1570
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:07,120
Speaker 5: when you close your hands to pray, you see the

1571
01:24:07,120 --> 01:24:08,880
Speaker 5: blood in your hands thing, I think they got really

1572
01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:12,040
Speaker 5: fucking pissed off and then they just kept escalating. So

1573
01:24:12,240 --> 01:24:16,800
Speaker 5: after that happens, the Montana Republicans formally censor her and

1574
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:19,720
Speaker 5: they prevent her from speaking on the floor until she

1575
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:22,880
Speaker 5: apologizes and as long as like, no, fuck you, I

1576
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:26,160
Speaker 5: got much, but she said no, I'm I'm not gonna apologize. Right,

1577
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:28,960
Speaker 5: there are there are a bunch of like pretty large

1578
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:33,080
Speaker 5: protests like in Helena that are like you know that

1579
01:24:33,240 --> 01:24:36,240
Speaker 5: that are that are like pro trans protests and protests

1580
01:24:36,320 --> 01:24:39,280
Speaker 5: to like let Zoe speak, and they arrest seven of

1581
01:24:39,280 --> 01:24:40,120
Speaker 5: the protesters.

1582
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:40,400
Speaker 9: Uh.

1583
01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:42,960
Speaker 5: One of the people they arrest was I think a

1584
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:48,000
Speaker 5: woman on crutches who like couldn't clear the area fast enough. Yeah,

1585
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:49,120
Speaker 5: she was on crutches.

1586
01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:50,240
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1587
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:52,800
Speaker 2: I was like I did go down before people didn't. Yeah,

1588
01:24:53,360 --> 01:24:53,840
Speaker 2: kinds of shit.

1589
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:56,800
Speaker 5: And then and then the so there's like these are

1590
01:24:56,800 --> 01:25:01,080
Speaker 5: these protests in the gallery right, and the the Montana

1591
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:03,800
Speaker 5: Republicans start doing this whole thing about how this is

1592
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:06,800
Speaker 5: this is this is the democratic January sixth, and like

1593
01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:09,400
Speaker 5: they were storming the capital, the capitals in the seats.

1594
01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 2: They tried to do that in Tennessee as well, Like

1595
01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:14,920
Speaker 2: it's so pathetic, like so asinine.

1596
01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:18,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the other thing I want to mention about

1597
01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:22,240
Speaker 5: this right is like okay, like the Montana Freedom Cocus

1598
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:24,920
Speaker 5: people and all, like the censors and the fucking press

1599
01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:27,280
Speaker 5: releases are just constantly misgendering Zoe.

1600
01:25:27,479 --> 01:25:27,760
Speaker 8: It is.

1601
01:25:28,640 --> 01:25:33,640
Speaker 5: It's really fucking ugly. Uh yeah. And you know, so

1602
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:36,000
Speaker 5: after these protests, the house like banishes her from the

1603
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:39,080
Speaker 5: floor and kicks her out of her offices, and so

1604
01:25:39,400 --> 01:25:42,959
Speaker 5: she shows up like to work from a bench outside

1605
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:46,320
Speaker 5: the chambers where like legally they can't kick her out

1606
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:49,639
Speaker 5: of But then like this is an ongoing saga, right,

1607
01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:52,800
Speaker 5: like like this morning she showed up and there were

1608
01:25:52,840 --> 01:25:55,559
Speaker 5: like three really old white women sitting on.

1609
01:25:55,520 --> 01:25:58,519
Speaker 2: The bed speaker of the house's mum oh speak of

1610
01:25:58,520 --> 01:25:59,080
Speaker 2: the house as much.

1611
01:25:59,240 --> 01:25:59,680
Speaker 5: Yeah nice.

1612
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:02,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, like this this fucking big Montana tough guy had

1613
01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:05,439
Speaker 2: to call his mom to fight his battles for him.

1614
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:12,680
Speaker 2: Like they just insanely puerile, asinine nonsense. But it's unfortunately

1615
01:26:12,840 --> 01:26:14,480
Speaker 2: has very real consequences.

1616
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:17,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, and like you know, so she was like at

1617
01:26:17,439 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 5: like a lut She was like like had her like

1618
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:23,519
Speaker 5: tablet like on a lunch counter, taking meetings from like

1619
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:26,240
Speaker 5: like standing at the counter. Yeah, it's it's been a

1620
01:26:26,240 --> 01:26:30,040
Speaker 5: whole thing. Also, I think earlier today someone someone tried

1621
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:34,360
Speaker 5: to swat her girlfriend. Yeah, because the journalist Aaron Reid.

1622
01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:36,880
Speaker 5: Uh so that's bad.

1623
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:37,720
Speaker 8: Uh.

1624
01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:40,759
Speaker 5: This whole thing has been getting like an unbelievable amount

1625
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:45,320
Speaker 5: of media attention, and you know, in a very very

1626
01:26:45,320 --> 01:26:47,760
Speaker 5: short period of time, Zoe Zephyr goes from someone who

1627
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:50,280
Speaker 5: I know about because I'm trans, and like all trans

1628
01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:52,519
Speaker 5: people are like four hops away from each other, something

1629
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:56,080
Speaker 5: I probably shouldn't say, but like it's true. Yeah, you

1630
01:26:56,160 --> 01:26:59,479
Speaker 5: kind of get there aren't that many of us, and

1631
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:02,680
Speaker 5: a lot of sor extremely online, so like, you know,

1632
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:05,120
Speaker 5: I'm like two hops away from this person, right, like

1633
01:27:06,120 --> 01:27:09,040
Speaker 5: from multiple strangles with her, right, Yeah, I met her

1634
01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:11,720
Speaker 5: like very briefly in a stream. She's you know, like

1635
01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:15,680
Speaker 5: she's a good person. She I don't know, she's just

1636
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:17,599
Speaker 5: like this is one of the things that I think,

1637
01:27:17,640 --> 01:27:20,760
Speaker 5: like I've met a couple of the or a few

1638
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:24,760
Speaker 5: of the like very famous like trans people who sort

1639
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:29,320
Speaker 5: of come under the gun, and they're just normal fucking people,

1640
01:27:30,120 --> 01:27:36,080
Speaker 5: like just normal trans people, and this bullshit happens to them.

1641
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:40,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so like bullshit that like, like I know

1642
01:27:40,080 --> 01:27:42,080
Speaker 2: a number of trans ladies who are bike racist, right

1643
01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:45,720
Speaker 2: and like they like, it must be pretty clear that

1644
01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:47,960
Speaker 2: if you win a fucking race, you win a big race,

1645
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 2: like you know what's coming for you know, fucking bright

1646
01:27:50,360 --> 01:27:52,240
Speaker 2: Barton News is going to have you on there the

1647
01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:55,200
Speaker 2: next year. It's and the same for her. Right, she

1648
01:27:55,960 --> 01:27:58,439
Speaker 2: likely would have been aware that at the moment she

1649
01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:02,519
Speaker 2: like tried to defend right to fucking exist all the

1650
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:06,240
Speaker 2: very worst people around the country with baying for blood.

1651
01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:10,280
Speaker 2: She's very brave she did. Anyway, like that she should

1652
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:12,040
Speaker 2: fuck them. They shouldn't be able to side and.

1653
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:17,880
Speaker 5: Say yeah, okay, we should take an ad break. Yeah,

1654
01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:20,479
Speaker 5: one more time and then yeah we'll come back and.

1655
01:28:20,400 --> 01:28:24,000
Speaker 2: Say something funny. Bit more che che che church Chumber.

1656
01:28:25,280 --> 01:28:29,280
Speaker 5: Oh, okay, we're back. Okay. So in the middle of

1657
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:33,920
Speaker 5: all of this, Zoe went home to I think there

1658
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:37,479
Speaker 5: was like a recess or something, because legislatures work like

1659
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:41,960
Speaker 5: two days a year, rich people hours. Yeah it's bullshit, like,

1660
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:43,680
Speaker 5: yeah they have.

1661
01:28:43,720 --> 01:28:47,040
Speaker 2: Like a break for fucking horse racing and yeah, had

1662
01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:48,200
Speaker 2: to do polo or whatever.

1663
01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:51,639
Speaker 5: Yeah, But so she she went home to Missoula and

1664
01:28:51,920 --> 01:28:55,680
Speaker 5: there was a just like a massive march. There was

1665
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:58,040
Speaker 5: this rally that turned into like this basically like a

1666
01:28:58,080 --> 01:29:02,680
Speaker 5: twenty four hour long party. People my favorite story for this.

1667
01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:06,080
Speaker 5: There's some people who Okay, so they brought beer they

1668
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:12,400
Speaker 5: had got from rowing a boat out to a derailed train. Yes,

1669
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:18,120
Speaker 5: I say, the two media narratives of twenty twenty three. Yeah, yeah,

1670
01:29:18,160 --> 01:29:21,720
Speaker 5: I mean it's great and like you know, I mean,

1671
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:26,599
Speaker 5: I think in these sort of moments, right, you can

1672
01:29:26,640 --> 01:29:29,120
Speaker 5: see the new world there, right, you can see a

1673
01:29:29,160 --> 01:29:31,360
Speaker 5: world where you know, we no longer live in fear.

1674
01:29:32,160 --> 01:29:34,800
Speaker 5: This you can see this world where we're free to

1675
01:29:34,840 --> 01:29:38,320
Speaker 5: create joy and meeting in art in our lives, you know,

1676
01:29:38,439 --> 01:29:40,800
Speaker 5: can be a celebration of the beauty that's in and

1677
01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:45,400
Speaker 5: around us. But that world, the world that generations and

1678
01:29:45,640 --> 01:29:49,120
Speaker 5: generations with trans people have fought and died to sort

1679
01:29:49,160 --> 01:29:51,080
Speaker 5: of claw out of the dirt the world tried to

1680
01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:54,559
Speaker 5: bury us in, that world will die unless we fight

1681
01:29:54,640 --> 01:29:57,280
Speaker 5: for it. And that fight cannot be left to individual

1682
01:29:57,360 --> 01:30:01,519
Speaker 5: state representatives. There's not enough of them. Eventually they will lose.

1683
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:03,360
Speaker 5: And and this is this is the other story of

1684
01:30:03,439 --> 01:30:06,400
Speaker 5: Montana rights. As much as you know, as much as

1685
01:30:06,439 --> 01:30:08,320
Speaker 5: what's been going on in Montana, is a story about

1686
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:11,680
Speaker 5: a trans woman defying like all of the sort of

1687
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:15,200
Speaker 5: organized power for state, like all of those bills passed,

1688
01:30:16,240 --> 01:30:20,000
Speaker 5: and there is not enough power to If we keep

1689
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:22,320
Speaker 5: trying to fight them in legislatures, and we keep trying

1690
01:30:22,360 --> 01:30:26,080
Speaker 5: to only fight them in in the legislatures and in court,

1691
01:30:26,160 --> 01:30:30,280
Speaker 5: we're going to lose. But okay, I probably shouldn't say

1692
01:30:30,280 --> 01:30:32,439
Speaker 5: this before I know we've we've locked in the title.

1693
01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:35,920
Speaker 5: But the projected title of this is the trans is

1694
01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:38,120
Speaker 5: the Transgendocide. A siege and a counter attack, And I

1695
01:30:38,160 --> 01:30:41,320
Speaker 5: promised a counterattack, So now I'm gonna give it to you.

1696
01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:44,320
Speaker 2: You didn't want like brief notes on the seage, like

1697
01:30:44,800 --> 01:30:46,719
Speaker 2: you could have gone full maoist on the side.

1698
01:30:46,760 --> 01:30:48,240
Speaker 5: Why we will, but we did. We did that with

1699
01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:51,120
Speaker 5: the other one, and I realized after the last episode

1700
01:30:51,120 --> 01:30:52,280
Speaker 5: we did on this that I could have just called

1701
01:30:52,280 --> 01:30:54,599
Speaker 5: it counterattack and that would be better. So I've saved

1702
01:30:54,640 --> 01:30:55,479
Speaker 5: it for this moment.

1703
01:30:57,200 --> 01:30:58,680
Speaker 2: I'm glad that you get to ease it.

1704
01:30:59,200 --> 01:31:03,599
Speaker 5: So, Okay. One of the things that's become incredibly apparent

1705
01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:06,160
Speaker 5: in the last in the last few years is that

1706
01:31:07,200 --> 01:31:10,599
Speaker 5: as as much as there is sort of passive transphobia society,

1707
01:31:10,640 --> 01:31:13,320
Speaker 5: transphobia is not a sort of nebulous idea that just

1708
01:31:13,360 --> 01:31:16,920
Speaker 5: like floats freely around the world. It is brought into

1709
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:19,880
Speaker 5: this world by men. And you know, we know the

1710
01:31:19,920 --> 01:31:22,880
Speaker 5: foundational story of how these men and women gain power. Right,

1711
01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:25,439
Speaker 5: they cut a deal with capital to reconstitute the Republican

1712
01:31:25,479 --> 01:31:29,080
Speaker 5: Party in the eighties. But you know this is this

1713
01:31:29,120 --> 01:31:30,559
Speaker 5: is both their weakness and their strength.

1714
01:31:30,760 --> 01:31:31,000
Speaker 8: Right.

1715
01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:33,559
Speaker 5: It's their strength because this gives them an enormous amount

1716
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:35,720
Speaker 5: of resources to pull on. It gives them the institutional

1717
01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:39,720
Speaker 5: backing of an entire political party. But it's weakness is

1718
01:31:39,720 --> 01:31:42,400
Speaker 5: and it means that capital and the transphobes are bound together.

1719
01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:44,920
Speaker 5: And this means that when you scratch a capitalist of

1720
01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:52,559
Speaker 5: transphobe bleeds. Now, the other things that we know are A,

1721
01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:55,160
Speaker 5: there are power in there's power and logistics, and b

1722
01:31:55,280 --> 01:31:59,479
Speaker 5: there are companies profiting from genocide. FedEx, for example. FedEx's

1723
01:31:59,479 --> 01:32:02,559
Speaker 5: headquarters are in Tennessee. Tennessee has passed a bunch of pennesces,

1724
01:32:02,680 --> 01:32:05,720
Speaker 5: like the state where this shit all fucking started, right

1725
01:32:05,840 --> 01:32:08,720
Speaker 5: with the original bathroom bills, with their drag bills, with

1726
01:32:08,760 --> 01:32:12,519
Speaker 5: their n you know, they've also passed bands on miners

1727
01:32:12,560 --> 01:32:15,320
Speaker 5: getting gender firm and care. There are other states where

1728
01:32:15,320 --> 01:32:17,160
Speaker 5: you know, you can look at the largest sort of

1729
01:32:17,200 --> 01:32:20,880
Speaker 5: companies in the states like Missouri is probably like Panera, Montana,

1730
01:32:21,000 --> 01:32:26,000
Speaker 5: Schnyder Electric, Kentucky's probably KFC, And you know those companies

1731
01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:27,880
Speaker 5: are weaknesses. So what am I talking about here? I'm

1732
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:29,880
Speaker 5: not talking about a boycott because this is the US.

1733
01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:33,040
Speaker 5: Nobody fucking knows how to do a boycott. Like when

1734
01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:35,559
Speaker 5: when Americans try to do a boycott, they buy like

1735
01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:38,160
Speaker 5: sixteen pallets of bud light and shoot it with a bazuka,

1736
01:32:38,560 --> 01:32:40,560
Speaker 5: right Like, this is the This is a boycott.

1737
01:32:40,560 --> 01:32:41,000
Speaker 8: It is not.

1738
01:32:42,640 --> 01:32:45,400
Speaker 5: What I'm talking about here is something a lot more serious.

1739
01:32:46,439 --> 01:32:48,760
Speaker 5: You know, we we we've we've we've seen this sort

1740
01:32:48,800 --> 01:32:54,240
Speaker 5: of so let me praise this. We've sort of the

1741
01:32:54,320 --> 01:32:56,400
Speaker 5: sort of echoes of what this kind of campaign could

1742
01:32:56,479 --> 01:32:59,960
Speaker 5: look like with the subcop City protest with you know,

1743
01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:02,559
Speaker 5: you have protests outside the offices of banks and outside

1744
01:33:02,560 --> 01:33:07,000
Speaker 5: of corporations that are backing that are backing cop City.

1745
01:33:07,040 --> 01:33:09,040
Speaker 5: But I'm talking you know that and that at the

1746
01:33:09,080 --> 01:33:11,479
Speaker 5: most mild is something that we should be doing. Right,

1747
01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:13,800
Speaker 5: These companies that are profiting from genocide, the companies that

1748
01:33:13,800 --> 01:33:17,640
Speaker 5: are you know, funded by the fucking tax exemptions that

1749
01:33:17,640 --> 01:33:19,599
Speaker 5: are given out by these states, the companies that are

1750
01:33:20,080 --> 01:33:24,400
Speaker 5: you know, giving money to the seple political campaigns. But

1751
01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:26,880
Speaker 5: I'm talking about more than that. I'm talking about blockades.

1752
01:33:27,240 --> 01:33:29,280
Speaker 5: This is you know, very speifically FedEx is quite post

1753
01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:31,280
Speaker 5: is possibly the best example of a company that you

1754
01:33:31,280 --> 01:33:35,120
Speaker 5: can that you can just target. Right talking about blockades,

1755
01:33:35,120 --> 01:33:38,680
Speaker 5: we're talking about supply like disrupting their supply chains. I'm

1756
01:33:38,680 --> 01:33:42,280
Speaker 5: talking about very specifically a campaign that put the trans

1757
01:33:42,280 --> 01:33:44,920
Speaker 5: sword to the arteries of capital and make the bassards bleed.

1758
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:48,800
Speaker 5: I'm talking about a counter attack. Now. The advantage of

1759
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:52,720
Speaker 5: the strategy of picking corporations, targeting them and disrupt like

1760
01:33:52,880 --> 01:33:56,040
Speaker 5: not not not just necessarily protesting outside of their office

1761
01:33:56,040 --> 01:33:59,479
Speaker 5: so though doing that, but specifically actually making them fucking bleed,

1762
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:01,799
Speaker 5: actually just rupting their ability to function as a company.

1763
01:34:02,479 --> 01:34:02,639
Speaker 8: Right.

1764
01:34:02,720 --> 01:34:04,680
Speaker 5: The advantage of this strategy, which is developed and sort

1765
01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:07,080
Speaker 5: of broad strokes of my dear friend Vicky Ostroweil, is

1766
01:34:07,080 --> 01:34:09,439
Speaker 5: that what one of the big, one of the big

1767
01:34:09,439 --> 01:34:11,920
Speaker 5: problems we have in this whole fight is this sort

1768
01:34:11,960 --> 01:34:15,439
Speaker 5: of weird is this geo the geographic mismatch, right, the

1769
01:34:15,560 --> 01:34:18,160
Speaker 5: you know, the majority of people in the US and

1770
01:34:18,160 --> 01:34:21,040
Speaker 5: also the majority of people in most of the states

1771
01:34:21,040 --> 01:34:23,240
Speaker 5: where this is happening, right, don't support this ship, but

1772
01:34:23,240 --> 01:34:25,360
Speaker 5: it doesn't matter because you know, the district are jerry

1773
01:34:25,400 --> 01:34:28,640
Speaker 5: mandered to fuck and you know, but but it means that,

1774
01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:30,800
Speaker 5: like there's a lot of people who like me, for example,

1775
01:34:30,840 --> 01:34:35,120
Speaker 5: like I live in Illinois, right, like the the you know,

1776
01:34:35,160 --> 01:34:37,080
Speaker 5: under normal circumstances, the best I can do is help

1777
01:34:37,120 --> 01:34:39,799
Speaker 5: my friends in Missouri get out and try to help,

1778
01:34:41,200 --> 01:34:46,280
Speaker 5: like you know, do do do things like secure access

1779
01:34:46,280 --> 01:34:49,000
Speaker 5: to transport and housing for refugees, secure access to hormones

1780
01:34:49,000 --> 01:34:52,240
Speaker 5: of people. But if we're if we're going after if

1781
01:34:52,240 --> 01:34:54,639
Speaker 5: you're going after capital, if we're going after the companies,

1782
01:34:55,479 --> 01:34:58,200
Speaker 5: the banks, the financial institutions that are funding this ship,

1783
01:34:59,080 --> 01:35:01,679
Speaker 5: we can hit them everywhere where because states have borders,

1784
01:35:01,720 --> 01:35:05,519
Speaker 5: but capital doesn't. And that means that you know, you know,

1785
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:08,320
Speaker 5: we can if if if if you are specifically you

1786
01:35:08,360 --> 01:35:10,519
Speaker 5: want to target the legislature of Kentucky, you can go

1787
01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:13,240
Speaker 5: after fucking KFC, right, you can go after their banks,

1788
01:35:13,240 --> 01:35:14,760
Speaker 5: you can go after you can go after anyone who

1789
01:35:14,800 --> 01:35:17,400
Speaker 5: funds them. We can hit them on multiple fronts here, right,

1790
01:35:17,479 --> 01:35:19,880
Speaker 5: we can hit them with protests, but these companies also

1791
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:21,960
Speaker 5: they rely on our labor, right, a lot of these

1792
01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:24,880
Speaker 5: places are you know, are either sort of fast food

1793
01:35:24,960 --> 01:35:27,280
Speaker 5: change or logistics networks, and that's that's a place where

1794
01:35:27,400 --> 01:35:29,640
Speaker 5: you know, trans people are overrepresented because trans people are

1795
01:35:29,680 --> 01:35:33,519
Speaker 5: overrepresented in the service sector, you know, again, because it's

1796
01:35:33,560 --> 01:35:36,120
Speaker 5: easier to get jobs there and institutional transphobia locks you

1797
01:35:36,160 --> 01:35:41,360
Speaker 5: out of better jobs. They also rely on public infrastructure.

1798
01:35:41,400 --> 01:35:44,639
Speaker 5: They rely on you know, streets being open, right, they

1799
01:35:44,640 --> 01:35:48,400
Speaker 5: rely on an entire logistics network to make sure and

1800
01:35:48,439 --> 01:35:50,519
Speaker 5: not only are they extracting the labor of people that

1801
01:35:50,560 --> 01:35:54,160
Speaker 5: they are like you know, the sort of like theoretical

1802
01:35:54,240 --> 01:35:55,200
Speaker 5: term for this is realization.

1803
01:35:55,280 --> 01:35:55,439
Speaker 8: Right.

1804
01:35:55,439 --> 01:35:56,840
Speaker 5: They have to actually be able to sell, They have

1805
01:35:56,840 --> 01:35:57,960
Speaker 5: to be able to assemble their product, and they have

1806
01:35:57,960 --> 01:35:59,840
Speaker 5: to be able to sell it. And you can stop

1807
01:35:59,840 --> 01:36:03,200
Speaker 5: them those things, right, I mean the KFC. And sometimes

1808
01:36:03,200 --> 01:36:05,439
Speaker 5: it's also kind of hard because there's franchise shit going on.

1809
01:36:05,960 --> 01:36:09,160
Speaker 5: But that's not true with FedEx, Like every FedEx office

1810
01:36:09,280 --> 01:36:13,880
Speaker 5: is FedEx, and you know, the these are these are

1811
01:36:13,920 --> 01:36:17,880
Speaker 5: companies that like, maybe we can't fucking drive them underground, right,

1812
01:36:18,360 --> 01:36:20,479
Speaker 5: but we can make them bleed, and we can make

1813
01:36:20,520 --> 01:36:22,919
Speaker 5: it we can make it painful enough to be complicit

1814
01:36:22,960 --> 01:36:25,639
Speaker 5: in this genocide that these people that you know, these

1815
01:36:25,640 --> 01:36:28,760
Speaker 5: people get fucking asked, right, we can, we can, we

1816
01:36:28,800 --> 01:36:30,160
Speaker 5: can make them bleed, we can go And you know

1817
01:36:30,200 --> 01:36:32,200
Speaker 5: another another thing that you know people can do, right

1818
01:36:32,320 --> 01:36:34,840
Speaker 5: is it's not that you know, if if if you

1819
01:36:35,200 --> 01:36:38,559
Speaker 5: have like a spare afternoon on a weekend, Right, it's

1820
01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:40,759
Speaker 5: not that hard to figure out that, like the specific

1821
01:36:40,800 --> 01:36:44,120
Speaker 5: business interests of the legislators who are voting for this stuff.

1822
01:36:45,000 --> 01:36:47,559
Speaker 5: You can just do this. All these people are unbelievably corrupt.

1823
01:36:47,720 --> 01:36:49,200
Speaker 5: They have land deals that they're doing.

1824
01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:52,559
Speaker 2: And so you know, open records and let you see

1825
01:36:52,560 --> 01:36:54,439
Speaker 2: who donates to all those people as well.

1826
01:36:54,560 --> 01:36:57,200
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, and there are websites that you can just like,

1827
01:36:57,800 --> 01:36:59,479
Speaker 5: like you can just google who gives the notions to

1828
01:36:59,520 --> 01:37:02,120
Speaker 5: people and yeah, it's like donations trackers, and you can

1829
01:37:02,560 --> 01:37:04,120
Speaker 5: like plug in their name and it will show you

1830
01:37:04,280 --> 01:37:05,120
Speaker 5: whe who donates to them.

1831
01:37:05,240 --> 01:37:05,439
Speaker 14: Yeah.

1832
01:37:06,160 --> 01:37:08,880
Speaker 5: And so we have learned through the through sort of

1833
01:37:08,920 --> 01:37:13,320
Speaker 5: the experience of the past few years, right, that these

1834
01:37:13,360 --> 01:37:16,759
Speaker 5: people cannot be swayed by logic. They cannot be swayed

1835
01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:19,960
Speaker 5: by they can't be swayed by logic, they cannot be

1836
01:37:20,000 --> 01:37:23,080
Speaker 5: swayed by science. They cannot be swayed by. You know,

1837
01:37:23,160 --> 01:37:25,519
Speaker 5: they cannot be swayed by the emotional appeals. They do

1838
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:27,679
Speaker 5: not give a shit about trans people. They would literally

1839
01:37:27,800 --> 01:37:32,519
Speaker 5: rather have their kids die than be trans. But again,

1840
01:37:33,880 --> 01:37:36,840
Speaker 5: the one thing they do care about is capital. And

1841
01:37:36,960 --> 01:37:38,960
Speaker 5: if you, if you, if you, if you, if you

1842
01:37:39,040 --> 01:37:42,400
Speaker 5: make capital bleed, these people will bleed to and that

1843
01:37:42,439 --> 01:37:45,040
Speaker 5: will actually fucking hurt them, and that will give you

1844
01:37:45,080 --> 01:37:47,720
Speaker 5: the leverage you need to let these people make a choice. Right,

1845
01:37:48,000 --> 01:37:51,040
Speaker 5: it's either us or the world of capital burns.

1846
01:38:05,320 --> 01:38:09,160
Speaker 12: It's a warm spring afternoon in Atlanta, Georgia. You and

1847
01:38:09,200 --> 01:38:11,439
Speaker 12: some of your friends are dancing in the sunlight at

1848
01:38:11,439 --> 01:38:14,920
Speaker 12: a music festival in South Atlanta. It's day two of

1849
01:38:14,960 --> 01:38:17,840
Speaker 12: the South River Music Festival. Last night you stayed up

1850
01:38:17,880 --> 01:38:21,280
Speaker 12: till three am, alternating between mashing in the pit and

1851
01:38:21,360 --> 01:38:23,880
Speaker 12: laying down on a blanket looking up at the night sky,

1852
01:38:24,520 --> 01:38:28,400
Speaker 12: trying to see stars through the light pollution. After you

1853
01:38:28,439 --> 01:38:30,400
Speaker 12: had your fill of edm you called it a night

1854
01:38:30,520 --> 01:38:33,240
Speaker 12: and hastily set up a tent in the forest near

1855
01:38:33,280 --> 01:38:35,880
Speaker 12: the edge of the festival. You tried to sleep as

1856
01:38:35,920 --> 01:38:38,479
Speaker 12: long as you could, but soon enough the hustle and

1857
01:38:38,520 --> 01:38:40,639
Speaker 12: bustle around the forest beckoned you out.

1858
01:38:40,640 --> 01:38:41,160
Speaker 4: Of your tent.

1859
01:38:41,640 --> 01:38:44,080
Speaker 12: As you mosied on over back to the music festival.

1860
01:38:44,439 --> 01:38:48,360
Speaker 12: Immediately something new caught your eye, a large, multi colored

1861
01:38:48,400 --> 01:38:51,120
Speaker 12: inflatable bouncy castle sitting right in the middle of the

1862
01:38:51,120 --> 01:38:56,639
Speaker 12: field with a big stopcop City banner hung along the side.

1863
01:38:56,720 --> 01:38:59,519
Speaker 12: After you fully woke up, you grabbed a free breakfast

1864
01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:03,000
Speaker 12: burrito and took a nice walk through the winding forest.

1865
01:39:03,760 --> 01:39:06,439
Speaker 12: Now that you've finished your breakfast, you're back at the

1866
01:39:06,560 --> 01:39:09,000
Speaker 12: far end of the open field, in front of the

1867
01:39:09,040 --> 01:39:12,000
Speaker 12: stage where there's been live music playing for the past

1868
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:15,759
Speaker 12: few hours. You and some friends briefly try a stint

1869
01:39:15,800 --> 01:39:18,799
Speaker 12: in the bouncy castle, but quickly return to the festival

1870
01:39:18,800 --> 01:39:22,200
Speaker 12: stage as you tire out much faster than you expected.

1871
01:39:23,120 --> 01:39:26,760
Speaker 12: As the sun is barely starting to set around six pm,

1872
01:39:26,760 --> 01:39:30,639
Speaker 12: suddenly you notice the faint scream of police sirens piercing

1873
01:39:30,680 --> 01:39:34,200
Speaker 12: through the music being blasted from on stage. You stand

1874
01:39:34,280 --> 01:39:37,680
Speaker 12: up as the sirens get louder and closer, until a

1875
01:39:37,800 --> 01:39:40,880
Speaker 12: burst of police cars zoom past the music festival at

1876
01:39:41,080 --> 01:39:46,920
Speaker 12: high speed. A short sigh of relief is followed by confusion.

1877
01:39:47,640 --> 01:39:50,160
Speaker 12: Where else would a whole bunch of police cars be going,

1878
01:39:50,840 --> 01:39:53,439
Speaker 12: But as nothing seems to come of it, everyone starts

1879
01:39:53,479 --> 01:39:56,880
Speaker 12: to relax and begin enjoying music once again with the

1880
01:39:57,280 --> 01:40:01,880
Speaker 12: apparent absence of police. There's a few brief moments of

1881
01:40:01,920 --> 01:40:06,080
Speaker 12: peace at the festival as things continue as scheduled, except

1882
01:40:06,160 --> 01:40:09,000
Speaker 12: you can't help but notice the police helicopter is flying

1883
01:40:09,080 --> 01:40:13,160
Speaker 12: across the forest toward the festival. As you take note

1884
01:40:13,160 --> 01:40:15,320
Speaker 12: of the chopper, you receive a signal message from a

1885
01:40:15,360 --> 01:40:19,080
Speaker 12: friend quote cops have entered the parking lot with AR

1886
01:40:19,200 --> 01:40:23,040
Speaker 12: fifteen's unquote. You lift up your mask and start running

1887
01:40:23,080 --> 01:40:26,320
Speaker 12: across the field to the parking lot at Willawne People's Park,

1888
01:40:26,760 --> 01:40:29,559
Speaker 12: But before you even make it halfway across, you notice

1889
01:40:29,640 --> 01:40:32,680
Speaker 12: up ahead a few dozen police officers sprinting into the

1890
01:40:32,680 --> 01:40:40,080
Speaker 12: open field from the festival side entrance. As the sun

1891
01:40:40,280 --> 01:40:43,120
Speaker 12: is setting, a group of cops run past the bouncy

1892
01:40:43,160 --> 01:40:47,160
Speaker 12: house and starts chasing down seemingly random concert goers and

1893
01:40:47,320 --> 01:40:51,320
Speaker 12: loan stragglers. One officer points his rifle at the bouncy

1894
01:40:51,360 --> 01:40:52,440
Speaker 12: house as another.

1895
01:40:52,280 --> 01:40:53,600
Speaker 4: Turns off the generator.

1896
01:40:54,560 --> 01:40:57,160
Speaker 12: You group up with other people from the festival in

1897
01:40:57,240 --> 01:41:01,040
Speaker 12: hopes of working together to incentivize police to leave the area.

1898
01:41:01,800 --> 01:41:05,240
Speaker 12: As you get closer, the cops start getting more aggressive.

1899
01:41:06,040 --> 01:41:08,400
Speaker 12: Just up ahead a bit further into the woods, close

1900
01:41:08,439 --> 01:41:10,600
Speaker 12: to where you set up your tent, you hear some

1901
01:41:10,840 --> 01:41:14,559
Speaker 12: loud bangs and see a flash of bright light. First,

1902
01:41:14,600 --> 01:41:17,639
Speaker 12: you assume it's just fireworks being used to hold off

1903
01:41:17,680 --> 01:41:21,559
Speaker 12: the cops until you start coughing and see the faint

1904
01:41:21,680 --> 01:41:25,439
Speaker 12: plume of tear gas seeping in from the forest. You're

1905
01:41:25,479 --> 01:41:27,840
Speaker 12: forced to fall back to the festival and regroup with

1906
01:41:27,880 --> 01:41:31,240
Speaker 12: people by the stage, where music is still being played.

1907
01:41:32,040 --> 01:41:34,240
Speaker 12: As you're running back, you can see dozens of people

1908
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:37,200
Speaker 12: in zip ti cuffs, many still pinned to the ground,

1909
01:41:38,280 --> 01:41:40,840
Speaker 12: still coughing from the gas. You make your way back

1910
01:41:40,880 --> 01:41:44,240
Speaker 12: to where you are washing the previous night. The crowd

1911
01:41:44,280 --> 01:41:47,400
Speaker 12: of festivalgoers tightens up as riot vans and a bear

1912
01:41:47,479 --> 01:41:50,920
Speaker 12: cat pull into the field next to the deflated bouncy castle.

1913
01:41:51,720 --> 01:41:55,240
Speaker 12: Police swat teams surround the South River Music Festival and

1914
01:41:55,360 --> 01:41:59,240
Speaker 12: creep towards the stage, threatening to charge hundreds of people

1915
01:41:59,479 --> 01:42:03,360
Speaker 12: with demes stick terrorism. Hanging on the backdrop of the

1916
01:42:03,400 --> 01:42:06,760
Speaker 12: stage is a massive banner that reads, quote in the

1917
01:42:06,760 --> 01:42:10,480
Speaker 12: eyes of the state, all who resist white supremacy, colonialism,

1918
01:42:10,760 --> 01:42:19,920
Speaker 12: environmental racism, gentrification, and police militarization are domestic terrorists unquote.

1919
01:42:21,400 --> 01:42:25,800
Speaker 12: That was the evening of Sunday, March fifth, twenty twenty three.

1920
01:42:25,840 --> 01:42:29,360
Speaker 12: This is it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. I

1921
01:42:29,479 --> 01:42:32,519
Speaker 12: arrived in Atlanta a few days prior in preparation for

1922
01:42:32,600 --> 01:42:35,439
Speaker 12: the March Week of Action to Defend the Atlanta Forest

1923
01:42:35,520 --> 01:42:38,840
Speaker 12: and Stop cop City. This is part one of a

1924
01:42:38,880 --> 01:42:43,440
Speaker 12: four part series covering this week of action, featuring interviews, reportbacks,

1925
01:42:43,439 --> 01:42:47,439
Speaker 12: and analysis from both participants and observers like myself. This

1926
01:42:47,520 --> 01:42:49,880
Speaker 12: four part series will be a follow up of sorts

1927
01:42:49,920 --> 01:42:52,679
Speaker 12: to the four stop Coop City episodes we put together

1928
01:42:52,840 --> 01:42:57,120
Speaker 12: last January following the death of forest defender Tortigita at

1929
01:42:57,120 --> 01:43:00,639
Speaker 12: the hands of the Georgia State Patrol, as well as

1930
01:43:00,720 --> 01:43:03,639
Speaker 12: building off my previous year of work covering the movement

1931
01:43:03,760 --> 01:43:06,679
Speaker 12: to defend the Atlanta Forest. But in case you're new

1932
01:43:06,880 --> 01:43:10,600
Speaker 12: or need a refresher, for over two years now, activists

1933
01:43:10,600 --> 01:43:13,040
Speaker 12: and community members have been in a fight to save

1934
01:43:13,080 --> 01:43:16,400
Speaker 12: the Wallani Forest from being turned into a massive ninety

1935
01:43:16,439 --> 01:43:20,360
Speaker 12: million dollar police training facility stretching across one hundred and

1936
01:43:20,360 --> 01:43:23,760
Speaker 12: seventy acres, with plans to include a mock city for

1937
01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:28,719
Speaker 12: urban combat training. To quell civil descent. The cop City

1938
01:43:28,800 --> 01:43:31,720
Speaker 12: project is being led by the Atlanta Police Foundation, one

1939
01:43:31,760 --> 01:43:34,320
Speaker 12: of the most powerful police lobbying groups in the country.

1940
01:43:35,080 --> 01:43:38,040
Speaker 12: Following seventeen hours of public comment, seventy percent of which

1941
01:43:38,200 --> 01:43:41,320
Speaker 12: was against the facility, the Atlanta City Council voted to

1942
01:43:41,360 --> 01:43:44,760
Speaker 12: approve the project's lease in September of twenty twenty one,

1943
01:43:45,360 --> 01:43:50,240
Speaker 12: despite months of protests and community organizing. Later that fall,

1944
01:43:50,280 --> 01:43:53,439
Speaker 12: people started occupying and camping out in the Wallani Forest

1945
01:43:53,640 --> 01:43:56,840
Speaker 12: to maintain a physical presence in the woods in hopes

1946
01:43:56,880 --> 01:44:00,920
Speaker 12: of preventing or delaying construction. Infrastructure sure to support long

1947
01:44:01,040 --> 01:44:04,599
Speaker 12: term encampments grew over the next year, with forest defenders

1948
01:44:04,600 --> 01:44:08,360
Speaker 12: erecting treehouses, road blockades, and making the forest a place

1949
01:44:08,400 --> 01:44:12,200
Speaker 12: that people could actually live in, with outdoor kitchens, community gardens,

1950
01:44:12,200 --> 01:44:14,240
Speaker 12: and places to sleep, whether that be up in a

1951
01:44:14,280 --> 01:44:17,799
Speaker 12: tree or in a tent. For a while it seemed

1952
01:44:17,840 --> 01:44:22,000
Speaker 12: to be working. Throughout twenty twenty two, construction continued to stall.

1953
01:44:22,160 --> 01:44:25,320
Speaker 12: Almost every time cops and workers came in to start

1954
01:44:25,360 --> 01:44:29,599
Speaker 12: cutting trees, they were met with resistance. Construction equipment left

1955
01:44:29,640 --> 01:44:33,160
Speaker 12: around the forest was routinely sabotaged, and last year, a

1956
01:44:33,240 --> 01:44:36,800
Speaker 12: tertiary targeting campaign resulted in the general contract of for

1957
01:44:36,840 --> 01:44:39,920
Speaker 12: a cop City, reeves Young Construction to drop out of

1958
01:44:39,960 --> 01:44:44,000
Speaker 12: the project. Police enacted multiple raids on the forest in

1959
01:44:44,040 --> 01:44:47,240
Speaker 12: twenty twenty two, trying to flush out any forest defenders

1960
01:44:47,240 --> 01:44:50,560
Speaker 12: camping out in the woods and tear down encampment infrastructure,

1961
01:44:51,200 --> 01:44:54,759
Speaker 12: but the occupation was generally able to bounce back pretty quick.

1962
01:44:55,439 --> 01:44:58,240
Speaker 12: As the movement to stop cop City was seemingly winning,

1963
01:44:58,520 --> 01:45:02,360
Speaker 12: police intensified their oppression as a series of raids in

1964
01:45:02,400 --> 01:45:05,280
Speaker 12: December of last year decimated much of the infrastructure that

1965
01:45:05,320 --> 01:45:07,240
Speaker 12: was built up over the course of that year and

1966
01:45:07,360 --> 01:45:11,080
Speaker 12: left six people with domestic terrorism charges. But things got

1967
01:45:11,120 --> 01:45:14,960
Speaker 12: worse just a month later. In January of twenty twenty three,

1968
01:45:15,400 --> 01:45:18,400
Speaker 12: multiple police agencies engaged in a mass raid of the

1969
01:45:18,400 --> 01:45:23,320
Speaker 12: Wallani Forest, destroying all remaining campsites. About an hour into

1970
01:45:23,360 --> 01:45:26,439
Speaker 12: the January eighteenth raid, the Georgia State Patrol swat team

1971
01:45:26,600 --> 01:45:29,479
Speaker 12: killed the twenty six year old forest defender Manuel Tehran,

1972
01:45:29,760 --> 01:45:34,040
Speaker 12: also known by their forest name Torti Ghita. Decab County's

1973
01:45:34,040 --> 01:45:38,280
Speaker 12: autopsy found at least fifty seven gunshot wounds from multiple officers.

1974
01:45:38,880 --> 01:45:42,200
Speaker 12: We'll talk more about the results from various autopsies in

1975
01:45:42,240 --> 01:45:45,519
Speaker 12: a later episode, but just a few weeks ago, tort

1976
01:45:45,560 --> 01:45:49,160
Speaker 12: would have turned twenty seven. The other side of the

1977
01:45:49,160 --> 01:45:52,639
Speaker 12: Defend the Forest movement is focused on a smaller section

1978
01:45:52,720 --> 01:45:57,160
Speaker 12: of the Wallani Forest just east of Entrenchment Creek. Initially

1979
01:45:57,200 --> 01:46:00,799
Speaker 12: in hopes of expanding his movie studios, the now former

1980
01:46:00,880 --> 01:46:04,400
Speaker 12: owner of Blackhall Studios, Ryan Millsap, has been trying to

1981
01:46:04,439 --> 01:46:08,040
Speaker 12: gain control of forty acres of public parkland through a

1982
01:46:08,200 --> 01:46:12,160
Speaker 12: shady landswap deal with Decap County that's currently subject to

1983
01:46:12,280 --> 01:46:15,439
Speaker 12: legal disputes. The slate of land in question contains the

1984
01:46:15,439 --> 01:46:18,200
Speaker 12: popular meeting spot in the forest known as the Living Room,

1985
01:46:18,479 --> 01:46:21,400
Speaker 12: which acts as a sort of central hub, as well

1986
01:46:21,439 --> 01:46:24,599
Speaker 12: as what's referred to as Wilauni People's Park, where the

1987
01:46:24,640 --> 01:46:27,640
Speaker 12: park gazebe used to be before Ryan Millsap demolished it,

1988
01:46:28,280 --> 01:46:30,800
Speaker 12: later ripping out all of the grass and sidewalks in

1989
01:46:30,840 --> 01:46:35,960
Speaker 12: a once again legally questionable move. In January, Wilani People's

1990
01:46:35,960 --> 01:46:39,160
Speaker 12: Park also became home to the vigil site for Torteguita.

1991
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:42,599
Speaker 12: All at Let Matt from the Atlantic Community Press Collective

1992
01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:46,360
Speaker 12: explain the other happenings in the woods since January.

1993
01:46:46,880 --> 01:46:50,680
Speaker 15: They got their land disturbance permit in late January, and

1994
01:46:50,920 --> 01:46:54,080
Speaker 15: the first phase of the land disturbance permit only allows

1995
01:46:54,160 --> 01:46:59,280
Speaker 15: for soil erosion control work. So to this point, essentially

1996
01:46:59,280 --> 01:47:02,200
Speaker 15: what they've done is they've they've clear cut some paths

1997
01:47:02,240 --> 01:47:08,120
Speaker 15: into the forest into the proposed site, and then around

1998
01:47:08,240 --> 01:47:12,000
Speaker 15: the exterior of the site they've clear cut a line

1999
01:47:12,120 --> 01:47:16,639
Speaker 15: in order to install silt fencing. So there isn't a

2000
01:47:16,760 --> 01:47:19,160
Speaker 15: large amount of infrastructure. They're not allowed to do a

2001
01:47:19,240 --> 01:47:22,800
Speaker 15: large amount of disturbance right now. They're in like the

2002
01:47:22,920 --> 01:47:27,760
Speaker 15: pre construction phase right now. So they started in February

2003
01:47:27,800 --> 01:47:30,320
Speaker 15: and they did a lot of work very quickly. They

2004
01:47:30,360 --> 01:47:32,599
Speaker 15: installed a privacy fence so you can't really see what's

2005
01:47:32,640 --> 01:47:35,559
Speaker 15: going on, so our general understanding of it like comes

2006
01:47:35,560 --> 01:47:39,519
Speaker 15: from drone footage. It actually slowed down a couple weeks later,

2007
01:47:40,120 --> 01:47:42,720
Speaker 15: and from what I understand, they began to pull some

2008
01:47:42,800 --> 01:47:45,840
Speaker 15: construction equipment out, probably not wanting to leave you know,

2009
01:47:45,920 --> 01:47:51,520
Speaker 15: a target for shall we say, any sort of spicy activities.

2010
01:47:52,240 --> 01:47:55,880
Speaker 12: But not all of their construction equipment was removed. As

2011
01:47:56,040 --> 01:48:01,960
Speaker 12: everyone would soon find out, the deadly January raid left

2012
01:48:02,000 --> 01:48:05,120
Speaker 12: the community in the morning and unsure of how the

2013
01:48:05,120 --> 01:48:08,080
Speaker 12: fight to stop copp City would evolve with the use

2014
01:48:08,160 --> 01:48:11,600
Speaker 12: of lethal force and the loss of a friend. The

2015
01:48:11,640 --> 01:48:15,400
Speaker 12: Forest Defender's semi permanent occupation of the Wallani Forest ended

2016
01:48:15,560 --> 01:48:18,599
Speaker 12: after that raid, but the fight was far from over.

2017
01:48:19,400 --> 01:48:23,320
Speaker 12: About a month after the January raid, local Atlantans put

2018
01:48:23,320 --> 01:48:26,800
Speaker 12: out a call for supporters across the country to converge

2019
01:48:26,840 --> 01:48:30,639
Speaker 12: in Atlanta in early March for a mass gathering known

2020
01:48:30,720 --> 01:48:34,320
Speaker 12: as a Week of Action. There have been four previous

2021
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:37,240
Speaker 12: Weeks of Action, but this one, more than any other,

2022
01:48:37,640 --> 01:48:40,720
Speaker 12: would be crucial in reifying what the next stage of

2023
01:48:40,800 --> 01:48:44,400
Speaker 12: the movement would be. I started off this episode with

2024
01:48:44,720 --> 01:48:48,400
Speaker 12: the Sunday night police raid on the South River Music Festival, because,

2025
01:48:48,560 --> 01:48:51,519
Speaker 12: for better or worse, what happened on that evening set

2026
01:48:51,560 --> 01:48:54,240
Speaker 12: the proverbial stage for what the majority of this Week

2027
01:48:54,280 --> 01:48:57,000
Speaker 12: of Action would look like and how its effects would

2028
01:48:57,040 --> 01:48:59,880
Speaker 12: ripple out in the coming months. But before we get

2029
01:48:59,880 --> 01:49:02,160
Speaker 12: to the rest of the week, we first have to

2030
01:49:02,240 --> 01:49:04,360
Speaker 12: go back to the official start of this Week of

2031
01:49:04,400 --> 01:49:07,559
Speaker 12: Action to explain how we got here in the first place.

2032
01:49:08,240 --> 01:49:10,640
Speaker 12: To kick off the Week of Action, a rally was

2033
01:49:10,680 --> 01:49:14,160
Speaker 12: planned for the morning of Saturday, March fourth, at Gresham

2034
01:49:14,200 --> 01:49:18,519
Speaker 12: Park in southeast Atlanta. By the time I arrived around

2035
01:49:18,560 --> 01:49:21,759
Speaker 12: eleven am, hundreds of people were already in the park.

2036
01:49:22,160 --> 01:49:26,320
Speaker 12: Music was blaring from loudspeakers. Some kids and a few

2037
01:49:26,320 --> 01:49:30,200
Speaker 12: brave adults were running around throwing multicolored powdered paint at

2038
01:49:30,200 --> 01:49:34,000
Speaker 12: each other. It was a pretty festive time. Soon enough,

2039
01:49:34,040 --> 01:49:37,400
Speaker 12: it was time for things to begin. Matthew Johnson, the

2040
01:49:37,439 --> 01:49:41,679
Speaker 12: interim executive director of Beloved Commune, formerly kicked off the week.

2041
01:49:42,120 --> 01:49:48,200
Speaker 7: Hoday, let's get started, all right.

2042
01:49:48,240 --> 01:49:51,040
Speaker 16: I just want to make sure that everybody.

2043
01:49:50,439 --> 01:49:51,719
Speaker 8: Is in the right place.

2044
01:49:54,080 --> 01:50:00,400
Speaker 14: I came here to stop cop city.

2045
01:50:01,680 --> 01:50:06,200
Speaker 16: What did you all come here to do? What did

2046
01:50:06,200 --> 01:50:10,280
Speaker 16: we come to do? What are we coming to do?

2047
01:50:12,360 --> 01:50:13,679
Speaker 16: What have we come here to do?

2048
01:50:16,280 --> 01:50:19,799
Speaker 8: All right? I'm glad that everybody found the right address.

2049
01:50:22,840 --> 01:50:25,719
Speaker 14: Thank you everybody for joining us.

2050
01:50:26,520 --> 01:50:28,200
Speaker 8: It's about two years ago.

2051
01:50:29,439 --> 01:50:32,840
Speaker 14: In what was formerly known as Entrenchment Creek Park now

2052
01:50:32,840 --> 01:50:40,760
Speaker 14: known as Wolani People's Park, where a ragtag bunch of

2053
01:50:40,840 --> 01:50:48,280
Speaker 14: individuals gathered under a gazebo. That gazebo was illegally destroyed

2054
01:50:49,160 --> 01:51:00,679
Speaker 14: by Ryan Millsap and his henchman an attempt to break

2055
01:51:00,720 --> 01:51:06,439
Speaker 14: this movement. In an attempt to bury this movement, Yet

2056
01:51:06,520 --> 01:51:10,800
Speaker 14: every single time that they have tried to bury us.

2057
01:51:11,400 --> 01:51:20,240
Speaker 14: They have forgotten that we were seeds. Every time they

2058
01:51:20,240 --> 01:51:23,120
Speaker 14: thought that they backed us into a corner with their repression,

2059
01:51:24,040 --> 01:51:27,839
Speaker 14: we had more of you show up and support this movement,

2060
01:51:28,120 --> 01:51:29,800
Speaker 14: and we thank you so much.

2061
01:51:34,760 --> 01:51:38,639
Speaker 17: They have set every hurdle in the way of every

2062
01:51:38,720 --> 01:51:42,439
Speaker 17: day at lanterns to intimidate them and stop them from

2063
01:51:42,520 --> 01:51:46,360
Speaker 17: supporting this movement, and we still show up.

2064
01:51:52,880 --> 01:51:55,800
Speaker 14: We appreciate every single person that has come here to

2065
01:51:55,840 --> 01:51:59,639
Speaker 14: support us in spite of the terror that.

2066
01:51:59,720 --> 01:52:02,400
Speaker 8: They has tried to instill in us.

2067
01:52:03,920 --> 01:52:07,280
Speaker 14: We must be very careful and understand the gravity of

2068
01:52:07,280 --> 01:52:10,840
Speaker 14: the situation that we are in, especially after we've lost

2069
01:52:10,840 --> 01:52:11,200
Speaker 14: a friend.

2070
01:52:12,080 --> 01:52:17,800
Speaker 8: Okay, thank you for standing with us.

2071
01:52:19,040 --> 01:52:22,040
Speaker 14: And now there are many things that we do not

2072
01:52:22,120 --> 01:52:24,920
Speaker 14: agree on, But what did we all come here to do?

2073
01:52:29,439 --> 01:52:33,640
Speaker 14: So let's remember what got us this far was a

2074
01:52:33,680 --> 01:52:41,759
Speaker 14: diversity of tactics, and now it's.

2075
01:52:41,640 --> 01:52:42,840
Speaker 8: Time for us to double down.

2076
01:52:44,640 --> 01:52:47,080
Speaker 12: The crowd gathered was a pretty diverse mix of people

2077
01:52:47,120 --> 01:52:51,400
Speaker 12: from a variety of backgrounds, beliefs, and preferred tactics. On

2078
01:52:51,560 --> 01:52:54,680
Speaker 12: this is Saturday morning, everyone felt pretty united. Whether you

2079
01:52:54,720 --> 01:52:57,479
Speaker 12: were a kid running around with paint all over your body,

2080
01:52:57,960 --> 01:53:00,320
Speaker 12: or an anarchist dressed head to toe and camp though.

2081
01:53:01,000 --> 01:53:04,280
Speaker 12: Next up, somebody read a statement from the Muscogee elder

2082
01:53:04,600 --> 01:53:05,880
Speaker 12: Miko Chabon, Colonel.

2083
01:53:06,479 --> 01:53:07,360
Speaker 8: I'm here to read.

2084
01:53:07,240 --> 01:53:12,439
Speaker 11: A statement from my Miko, Miko Shabbon.

2085
01:53:13,720 --> 01:53:14,719
Speaker 8: Yeah, my name is Marty.

2086
01:53:15,640 --> 01:53:19,000
Speaker 11: I'm Muscoge on my father's side. On my mother's side,

2087
01:53:19,080 --> 01:53:24,360
Speaker 11: I'm Atham both Acmel and Thana, and my dad's also Filipino.

2088
01:53:24,920 --> 01:53:29,040
Speaker 11: Miko asked me to read this statement. Band Strijaio mart

2089
01:53:29,600 --> 01:53:32,760
Speaker 11: At this time, I would like to express my gratitude

2090
01:53:32,840 --> 01:53:36,640
Speaker 11: to all who have converged onto these ancestral territories of

2091
01:53:36,760 --> 01:53:40,600
Speaker 11: Muskogean ancestors and modern spiritual inhabitants of the earth that

2092
01:53:40,680 --> 01:53:45,800
Speaker 11: we now stand on today. We represent a vast society

2093
01:53:45,880 --> 01:53:50,640
Speaker 11: of peoples whose presence in the colonized named states of Georgia, Alabama,

2094
01:53:50,800 --> 01:53:55,720
Speaker 11: and Florida have existed for over thirteen thousand years. We

2095
01:53:55,880 --> 01:53:59,120
Speaker 11: represent a way of life that strove to minimize the

2096
01:53:59,160 --> 01:54:03,320
Speaker 11: harm that human can do to the earth, to other species,

2097
01:54:03,360 --> 01:54:07,320
Speaker 11: and to each other. Today, we continue this movement that

2098
01:54:07,400 --> 01:54:10,080
Speaker 11: begun many years ago, and we honor those who have

2099
01:54:10,120 --> 01:54:14,240
Speaker 11: taken footsteps to protect this forest and our relative who

2100
01:54:14,280 --> 01:54:19,080
Speaker 11: gave the greatest of sacrifices, just as ancestors existed on

2101
01:54:19,160 --> 01:54:23,800
Speaker 11: these very grounds and carried of faith and confidence in

2102
01:54:23,840 --> 01:54:27,320
Speaker 11: what our ancient ones passed on to us. May the

2103
01:54:27,360 --> 01:54:30,840
Speaker 11: hope of peaceful existence for all be achieved for many

2104
01:54:30,880 --> 01:54:34,880
Speaker 11: more centuries to come. This existence can only occur when

2105
01:54:34,920 --> 01:54:38,920
Speaker 11: we realize the sacredness of the Wailani Forest, that all

2106
01:54:38,920 --> 01:54:42,200
Speaker 11: that is natural on this earth, Mother. This type of

2107
01:54:42,240 --> 01:54:45,600
Speaker 11: existence can only occur when we realize that we all

2108
01:54:45,600 --> 01:54:48,680
Speaker 11: belong to this earth and she does not belong to us.

2109
01:54:49,880 --> 01:54:52,600
Speaker 11: This type of holy existence can only occur when we

2110
01:54:52,680 --> 01:54:56,200
Speaker 11: realize that no cop city can ever exist because more

2111
01:54:56,240 --> 01:55:05,200
Speaker 11: weapons only create more violence. Wo With these efforts that

2112
01:55:05,280 --> 01:55:09,520
Speaker 11: begin today, perhaps reason will prevail and we could create

2113
01:55:09,560 --> 01:55:10,960
Speaker 11: a future where all people.

2114
01:55:10,720 --> 01:55:12,320
Speaker 8: Have the right to exist.

2115
01:55:13,040 --> 01:55:15,600
Speaker 11: Today, May our dreams for this forest and the surrounding

2116
01:55:15,600 --> 01:55:19,840
Speaker 11: community come true. For those who can hear, let them hear.

2117
01:55:20,920 --> 01:55:24,000
Speaker 12: The next speaker was from Community Movement Builders, a local

2118
01:55:24,000 --> 01:55:28,280
Speaker 12: black collectives that focuses on combating and gentrification and police violence.

2119
01:55:29,080 --> 01:55:32,680
Speaker 18: I may be a little bit selfish, and my reason

2120
01:55:32,720 --> 01:55:37,920
Speaker 18: for being here I want to be free.

2121
01:55:38,160 --> 01:55:41,360
Speaker 19: I want my children to be free. I want my

2122
01:55:41,440 --> 01:55:44,360
Speaker 19: mother to be free. I want my father, my brothers

2123
01:55:44,360 --> 01:55:46,880
Speaker 19: and sisters to be free. And I don't want to

2124
01:55:46,920 --> 01:55:50,160
Speaker 19: have to live a life in ten years when my babies.

2125
01:55:49,800 --> 01:55:51,600
Speaker 7: My nieces, and my nephews come to me and.

2126
01:55:51,640 --> 01:55:53,120
Speaker 8: Ask, come, I see.

2127
01:55:54,680 --> 01:55:57,520
Speaker 18: Where were you What were you doing when they destroyed

2128
01:55:57,560 --> 01:56:01,600
Speaker 18: our clean water, destroyed our clean What happened?

2129
01:56:02,000 --> 01:56:03,040
Speaker 8: Why were you not around?

2130
01:56:03,200 --> 01:56:05,520
Speaker 18: What were you doing when when my baby's twenty ten

2131
01:56:05,600 --> 01:56:07,840
Speaker 18: years and they say, come, I see what were you

2132
01:56:07,920 --> 01:56:10,360
Speaker 18: doing when this country turned into a fascist dystopia?

2133
01:56:10,840 --> 01:56:11,400
Speaker 7: What were you doing?

2134
01:56:11,400 --> 01:56:13,680
Speaker 8: Where were you where you're around? I can't sit here.

2135
01:56:13,640 --> 01:56:16,440
Speaker 18: Best shit back and saying I just sat home and

2136
01:56:16,480 --> 01:56:18,080
Speaker 18: watched this whole well burn to hell.

2137
01:56:22,040 --> 01:56:23,839
Speaker 7: I don't believe in the power.

2138
01:56:24,760 --> 01:56:29,040
Speaker 18: I don't believe in the power of being periless. I

2139
01:56:29,120 --> 01:56:35,880
Speaker 18: believe in the power of the people. So I say

2140
01:56:35,960 --> 01:56:39,520
Speaker 18: to everyone today that during this week of action, I

2141
01:56:39,560 --> 01:56:42,120
Speaker 18: don't know where you will be. I don't know what

2142
01:56:42,160 --> 01:56:42,640
Speaker 18: you will be.

2143
01:56:42,600 --> 01:56:45,800
Speaker 7: Doing, but we standing behind you and were staying with you.

2144
01:56:46,600 --> 01:56:48,200
Speaker 7: And we want to show the city of Atlanta.

2145
01:56:48,520 --> 01:56:50,880
Speaker 18: We want to show Mary Dickens that he is not

2146
01:56:51,000 --> 01:56:56,680
Speaker 18: fit to rule and he does not runing city.

2147
01:56:56,880 --> 01:56:59,440
Speaker 7: You want to show them, said the ninety million.

2148
01:56:59,160 --> 01:57:02,440
Speaker 18: Dollars that they took to build this warfare training facility

2149
01:57:02,840 --> 01:57:10,280
Speaker 18: will not cross our communities, Wheo. And we also want

2150
01:57:10,320 --> 01:57:14,160
Speaker 18: to ShW the city of that letter that again we

2151
01:57:14,200 --> 01:57:17,040
Speaker 18: are ready to stop really surviving, to start living.

2152
01:57:20,800 --> 01:57:24,680
Speaker 12: Finally, our last person Reverend Leo'she is a Baptist minister

2153
01:57:24,880 --> 01:57:28,200
Speaker 12: part of the Stop Copp City Clergy coalition, which we'll

2154
01:57:28,240 --> 01:57:30,480
Speaker 12: talk a bit more about in the next episode.

2155
01:57:31,280 --> 01:57:34,400
Speaker 13: And I believe my faith compels me and convicts me

2156
01:57:34,440 --> 01:57:38,560
Speaker 13: that in this moment, the work that has been done

2157
01:57:39,520 --> 01:57:42,560
Speaker 13: and the work that is to come to defend this,

2158
01:57:43,120 --> 01:57:47,960
Speaker 13: our beloved family, this, our siblings, the earth.

2159
01:57:48,360 --> 01:57:50,840
Speaker 4: Is a holy and righteous work.

2160
01:57:56,280 --> 01:57:59,720
Speaker 13: It is a holy and righteous work that is grounded

2161
01:58:00,760 --> 01:58:04,960
Speaker 13: in a faithful rage.

2162
01:58:03,920 --> 01:58:07,600
Speaker 20: A rage which has been boiling in the human family's

2163
01:58:07,640 --> 01:58:12,360
Speaker 20: blood for centuries, and meets us care at this moment

2164
01:58:12,480 --> 01:58:18,160
Speaker 20: and asks us, what will you do to defend those

2165
01:58:18,600 --> 01:58:19,760
Speaker 20: who have no defense?

2166
01:58:20,160 --> 01:58:23,920
Speaker 6: What will you do to protect those who have no shelter?

2167
01:58:24,640 --> 01:58:26,000
Speaker 7: What will you do.

2168
01:58:26,840 --> 01:58:31,520
Speaker 6: When the time comes to decide on whose side you

2169
01:58:31,560 --> 01:58:35,440
Speaker 6: are on? Will you stand for oppression or will you

2170
01:58:35,560 --> 01:58:47,960
Speaker 6: stand for the liberation of all people? My friends, I

2171
01:58:48,080 --> 01:58:51,680
Speaker 6: come with some good news if that's okay. And the

2172
01:58:51,720 --> 01:58:55,440
Speaker 6: good news is that God stands on the side of

2173
01:58:55,520 --> 01:58:56,200
Speaker 6: the oppress.

2174
01:58:58,760 --> 01:59:01,120
Speaker 7: God stands on the side.

2175
01:59:00,920 --> 01:59:06,320
Speaker 13: Of the forest defenders, Law stands on the side of

2176
01:59:06,360 --> 01:59:11,960
Speaker 13: the most marginalized. And let us make no mistake that

2177
01:59:12,040 --> 01:59:15,000
Speaker 13: in our protests and in our rage, we.

2178
01:59:14,880 --> 01:59:18,960
Speaker 7: Also have to cry out and lament.

2179
01:59:20,600 --> 01:59:23,880
Speaker 13: We cannot be silent as do Dujita's blood cries out

2180
01:59:23,920 --> 01:59:32,280
Speaker 13: from the ground. We must honor a life that did

2181
01:59:32,320 --> 01:59:34,720
Speaker 13: not have to be lost. It did not have to

2182
01:59:34,760 --> 01:59:39,920
Speaker 13: be this way. Do not listen to anyone who tells

2183
01:59:39,960 --> 01:59:41,640
Speaker 13: you that there is.

2184
01:59:41,520 --> 01:59:42,200
Speaker 8: Not a better way.

2185
01:59:42,240 --> 01:59:48,640
Speaker 13: There is always a better way. Do I come with

2186
01:59:48,800 --> 01:59:53,040
Speaker 13: my faith and the conviction that in this work, in

2187
01:59:53,120 --> 01:59:59,240
Speaker 13: this moment, a prophetic imagination, a creative vision is needed

2188
02:00:00,120 --> 02:00:01,720
Speaker 13: in the wall that we.

2189
02:00:01,600 --> 02:00:04,600
Speaker 7: Want to see. I'm not here to wait for the

2190
02:00:04,680 --> 02:00:05,440
Speaker 7: Kingdom of God.

2191
02:00:05,640 --> 02:00:09,560
Speaker 13: I want the Kingdom of God right now.

2192
02:00:10,240 --> 02:00:10,840
Speaker 20: Right now.

2193
02:00:13,680 --> 02:00:17,040
Speaker 12: After the speeches were finished, it was announced that the crowd,

2194
02:00:17,360 --> 02:00:21,080
Speaker 12: now nearing a thousand strong, would gather up together and

2195
02:00:21,200 --> 02:00:25,160
Speaker 12: march to Wilani People's Park to retake the forest. As

2196
02:00:25,240 --> 02:00:27,880
Speaker 12: everyone was getting ready to leave, you could see the

2197
02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:31,200
Speaker 12: care and solidarity people had for each other. On full display.

2198
02:00:31,720 --> 02:00:33,840
Speaker 12: Bike scouts were checking to see if the path was clear.

2199
02:00:34,240 --> 02:00:37,560
Speaker 12: Volunteer street medics ready to help anyone in need. Water

2200
02:00:37,600 --> 02:00:40,640
Speaker 12: bottles are being handed out to keep everyone hydrated, while

2201
02:00:40,680 --> 02:00:44,560
Speaker 12: others autonomously coordinated rides for people unable to make. The

2202
02:00:44,640 --> 02:00:50,240
Speaker 12: walk looks like approximately one thousand people marching from Gresham

2203
02:00:50,240 --> 02:00:52,520
Speaker 12: Park to Alana People's Park on.

2204
02:00:52,520 --> 02:00:53,200
Speaker 5: The bike path.

2205
02:00:54,440 --> 02:00:57,680
Speaker 12: That's a I can't even see the end of where,

2206
02:00:59,160 --> 02:01:01,960
Speaker 12: of where the of where the people stop. It's a long,

2207
02:01:02,200 --> 02:01:05,680
Speaker 12: long stretch of people marching hundreds and hundreds of feet.

2208
02:01:06,480 --> 02:01:08,240
Speaker 12: There's some banners in front of the march. One of

2209
02:01:08,280 --> 02:01:14,280
Speaker 12: them reads disarm, defund, dismantle, no cop City. There's one

2210
02:01:14,440 --> 02:01:18,520
Speaker 12: of the sun shining over a pink sky with a

2211
02:01:18,560 --> 02:01:23,960
Speaker 12: little blue turtle and their shell is the earth massive

2212
02:01:24,080 --> 02:01:30,240
Speaker 12: like ten person banner that reads defend the Forest. The

2213
02:01:30,400 --> 02:01:32,960
Speaker 12: energy of the march remained high as people chanted to

2214
02:01:32,960 --> 02:01:35,560
Speaker 12: the beat of drums. I sat down with Matt from

2215
02:01:35,600 --> 02:01:38,320
Speaker 12: the Atlantic Community Press Collective towards the end of the

2216
02:01:38,320 --> 02:01:41,080
Speaker 12: week to talk about what we saw throughout this week

2217
02:01:41,120 --> 02:01:41,520
Speaker 12: of action.

2218
02:01:42,120 --> 02:01:45,880
Speaker 15: At one point, the entire crowd, seemingly the entire crowd

2219
02:01:45,920 --> 02:01:48,320
Speaker 15: was chanting if you build it we will burn it,

2220
02:01:48,400 --> 02:01:50,040
Speaker 15: which seems.

2221
02:01:49,800 --> 02:01:51,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, almost like a thousand people.

2222
02:01:51,280 --> 02:02:03,800
Speaker 15: Yeah, and it was being chanted, like you know, looking

2223
02:02:03,840 --> 02:02:06,840
Speaker 15: around the crowd, you saw everyone for the most part

2224
02:02:06,840 --> 02:02:09,800
Speaker 15: partaking in that. So that was a very interesting moment

2225
02:02:09,920 --> 02:02:13,440
Speaker 15: where it felt like there was that sort of solidarity

2226
02:02:13,680 --> 02:02:17,400
Speaker 15: amongst the varied groups that make up the Defend the

2227
02:02:17,440 --> 02:02:18,400
Speaker 15: Atlanta Forest movement.

2228
02:02:18,920 --> 02:02:22,120
Speaker 12: As the march went on, the path was getting increasingly forested.

2229
02:02:22,680 --> 02:02:25,040
Speaker 12: About two thirds of the way to Wallani People's Park,

2230
02:02:25,320 --> 02:02:28,840
Speaker 12: after turning a bend, the crowd noticed three deer frolicking

2231
02:02:28,920 --> 02:02:39,320
Speaker 12: alongside the march from further within the tree line. To

2232
02:02:39,480 --> 02:02:42,360
Speaker 12: quote the Atlanta Community Press Collectives right up of the

2233
02:02:42,400 --> 02:02:46,640
Speaker 12: march quote, the joyous mood shifted slightly as the protest

2234
02:02:46,840 --> 02:02:50,200
Speaker 12: closed in on the People's Park, passing over the remains

2235
02:02:50,200 --> 02:02:53,600
Speaker 12: of the bike path destroyed in December by film executive

2236
02:02:53,680 --> 02:02:57,840
Speaker 12: Ryan Millsap, activists were uncertain what they were walking into

2237
02:02:58,400 --> 02:03:00,960
Speaker 12: or whether the police would offer any resistance.

2238
02:03:01,520 --> 02:03:03,200
Speaker 15: Activists thought that there was going to be an issue.

2239
02:03:03,360 --> 02:03:08,120
Speaker 15: They were concerned about the police being in Willani People's Park.

2240
02:03:08,200 --> 02:03:12,520
Speaker 15: So about halfway we saw that stack of makeshift shields

2241
02:03:12,880 --> 02:03:14,680
Speaker 15: made out of plastic rain barrels.

2242
02:03:15,280 --> 02:03:21,160
Speaker 12: About two dozen of those five Gatlandrum shields just mysteriously

2243
02:03:21,160 --> 02:03:24,680
Speaker 12: showed up along the bike path. We are arriving at

2244
02:03:24,680 --> 02:03:27,800
Speaker 12: Willannee People's Park, no cops.

2245
02:03:28,880 --> 02:03:33,240
Speaker 15: But then when we got there there was no police whatsoever.

2246
02:03:34,040 --> 02:03:37,600
Speaker 15: From what the scanner people told us, there were police around,

2247
02:03:37,840 --> 02:03:40,720
Speaker 15: they were just kind of monitoring from afar, but no

2248
02:03:40,800 --> 02:03:44,200
Speaker 15: police ever entered the park. And it was I would

2249
02:03:44,240 --> 02:03:48,280
Speaker 15: say it was a really nice high point return to the.

2250
02:03:48,160 --> 02:03:53,560
Speaker 12: Forest, banners and shields moving around willane People's Park as

2251
02:03:53,760 --> 02:03:56,520
Speaker 12: hundreds and hundreds of more people still pour in from.

2252
02:03:56,320 --> 02:03:56,960
Speaker 5: The bike path.

2253
02:03:58,360 --> 02:04:01,000
Speaker 12: As the back of the march finally arrived, the crowd

2254
02:04:01,080 --> 02:04:03,560
Speaker 12: gathered up one more time to all chant out a

2255
02:04:03,600 --> 02:04:05,840
Speaker 12: promise in unison, I Will.

2256
02:04:09,400 --> 02:04:19,560
Speaker 7: I Will.

2257
02:04:20,840 --> 02:04:23,600
Speaker 12: One of the activists I interviewed during the Week of

2258
02:04:23,640 --> 02:04:26,240
Speaker 12: Action was Matthew Johnson, the person who kicked off the

2259
02:04:26,320 --> 02:04:29,920
Speaker 12: rally at Gresham Park. We talked about the methodology of

2260
02:04:30,000 --> 02:04:32,880
Speaker 12: starting off this Week of Action with this big inclusive

2261
02:04:32,920 --> 02:04:35,480
Speaker 12: march and how that may have helped achieve the goal

2262
02:04:35,600 --> 02:04:36,760
Speaker 12: of retaking the forest.

2263
02:04:36,880 --> 02:04:37,840
Speaker 5: That first day.

2264
02:04:38,880 --> 02:04:44,240
Speaker 21: We wanted to be sure that we would be able

2265
02:04:44,320 --> 02:04:50,320
Speaker 21: to reoccupy the park and what that would entail is

2266
02:04:50,360 --> 02:04:54,560
Speaker 21: having a wide swath of the larger public involved with

2267
02:04:56,040 --> 02:05:01,440
Speaker 21: any efforts to enter into the park. And so we

2268
02:05:01,640 --> 02:05:06,200
Speaker 21: had the rally Aggresham Park and there was a march

2269
02:05:06,400 --> 02:05:13,400
Speaker 21: planned from that part to Wolani People's Park. There is

2270
02:05:13,600 --> 02:05:18,120
Speaker 21: violence that people have become accustomed to when it is

2271
02:05:18,240 --> 02:05:21,920
Speaker 21: people on the political fringes. That's just where we're at

2272
02:05:22,520 --> 02:05:26,160
Speaker 21: in the political situation in Atlanta. However, when you have

2273
02:05:27,160 --> 02:05:31,280
Speaker 21: several people that you would consider more normal, liberal, progressive, etc.

2274
02:05:32,320 --> 02:05:38,480
Speaker 21: Like representatives from NGOs, non profit organizations, just normal people

2275
02:05:38,480 --> 02:05:43,640
Speaker 21: that also wanted to see the project shut down cop City,

2276
02:05:44,840 --> 02:05:48,800
Speaker 21: that's when you have the ability to move towards people

2277
02:05:49,320 --> 02:05:52,400
Speaker 21: that want to reoccupy, having the space to do that

2278
02:05:52,720 --> 02:05:56,120
Speaker 21: without seeing tons of police repression as we have seen

2279
02:05:56,720 --> 02:05:57,879
Speaker 21: in the movement recently.

2280
02:06:02,240 --> 02:06:05,960
Speaker 12: After reaching Wolaanni People's Park, many of those who arrived

2281
02:06:06,000 --> 02:06:08,440
Speaker 12: from out of town for this week of action, myself

2282
02:06:08,440 --> 02:06:12,840
Speaker 12: included stopped by the shrine for Tortigita just off of

2283
02:06:12,840 --> 02:06:16,680
Speaker 12: the tree line. People added new wildflowers and packs of

2284
02:06:16,720 --> 02:06:19,640
Speaker 12: fruit snacks. I'm going to walk over to the Torti

2285
02:06:19,640 --> 02:06:23,480
Speaker 12: Guita vigil site. Looks about the same as last time.

2286
02:06:23,520 --> 02:06:28,200
Speaker 12: I was here, many candles, little turtles, still a few

2287
02:06:28,320 --> 02:06:32,640
Speaker 12: fruit snacks. Although the vigil shrine was the same as

2288
02:06:32,760 --> 02:06:35,680
Speaker 12: last time I saw it, almost everything else about being

2289
02:06:35,680 --> 02:06:38,400
Speaker 12: in this place was different. When I was here last

2290
02:06:38,440 --> 02:06:41,720
Speaker 12: time in January, it was a dark place of grief.

2291
02:06:42,280 --> 02:06:44,800
Speaker 12: The forest was barren, with all of the trees in

2292
02:06:44,840 --> 02:06:48,480
Speaker 12: their bare winter state. But looking around the forest this

2293
02:06:48,880 --> 02:06:51,960
Speaker 12: first sunny day, you could see new life growing all

2294
02:06:52,000 --> 02:06:55,600
Speaker 12: around you. To quote the Community Press Collective again quote,

2295
02:06:55,880 --> 02:06:59,080
Speaker 12: small campsites begin to crop up across the landscape. Some

2296
02:06:59,240 --> 02:07:02,760
Speaker 12: nestled in sight on air spaces, others tucked into thickets,

2297
02:07:02,840 --> 02:07:07,120
Speaker 12: providing shelter and cooler climate for the new residence. The

2298
02:07:07,160 --> 02:07:11,240
Speaker 12: trees themselves reflected this next phase. Sprigs of new growth

2299
02:07:11,320 --> 02:07:14,920
Speaker 12: leaves appeared on the ends of barren branches. Small white

2300
02:07:14,920 --> 02:07:18,240
Speaker 12: flowers bloomed along the periphery of the parking lot. After

2301
02:07:18,320 --> 02:07:23,440
Speaker 12: months of desolation and death, life prevailed and spring arrives

2302
02:07:23,520 --> 02:07:27,600
Speaker 12: in the forest. I'm excited to get back into the

2303
02:07:27,600 --> 02:07:32,320
Speaker 12: forest because it is so hot, and get back in

2304
02:07:32,360 --> 02:07:35,480
Speaker 12: the forest I did. One of the events that happened

2305
02:07:35,520 --> 02:07:39,120
Speaker 12: almost daily throughout the week was tours of the eastern

2306
02:07:39,240 --> 02:07:42,560
Speaker 12: side of the Wallani Forest. The walks through the woods

2307
02:07:42,600 --> 02:07:44,960
Speaker 12: were led by Joe Perry, a member of the South

2308
02:07:45,040 --> 02:07:48,640
Speaker 12: River Forest Coalition. I was able to attend the first

2309
02:07:48,680 --> 02:07:51,520
Speaker 12: tour during the Week of Action and got consent to

2310
02:07:51,600 --> 02:07:53,520
Speaker 12: record some of the forest walk.

2311
02:07:53,600 --> 02:07:57,960
Speaker 22: All right, hey, y'all, welcome to the living Room. So

2312
02:07:58,160 --> 02:08:00,960
Speaker 22: named because it's it's a very vital and comfortable place

2313
02:08:01,000 --> 02:08:03,680
Speaker 22: to relax. This is where a lot of the meetings

2314
02:08:04,080 --> 02:08:09,400
Speaker 22: happened during the previous Week of Action. People gather and

2315
02:08:10,080 --> 02:08:19,960
Speaker 22: have different events here. Oftentimes it will be food available here, campfires, silverware.

2316
02:08:22,200 --> 02:08:25,480
Speaker 22: So it's also just a very very comfortable place to

2317
02:08:25,520 --> 02:08:31,360
Speaker 22: relax because it's in this pine forest and so not

2318
02:08:31,400 --> 02:08:34,560
Speaker 22: really any undergrowth and just super comfortable. It's a really

2319
02:08:34,600 --> 02:08:38,720
Speaker 22: good place to have meetings and just kind of get

2320
02:08:38,720 --> 02:08:39,840
Speaker 22: to know each other and.

2321
02:08:41,880 --> 02:08:42,920
Speaker 4: Establish some calm.

2322
02:08:44,000 --> 02:08:45,960
Speaker 12: We made our way from the living Room to the

2323
02:08:46,040 --> 02:08:49,280
Speaker 12: Grandmother Tree, a large oak that is estimated to be

2324
02:08:49,280 --> 02:08:52,000
Speaker 12: a few hundred years old. On our way to Ryan

2325
02:08:52,040 --> 02:08:55,760
Speaker 12: Millsaps proposed a site for so called Michelle Obama Park,

2326
02:08:55,840 --> 02:08:58,960
Speaker 12: which is currently a forty acre mount of dirt about

2327
02:08:58,960 --> 02:09:02,280
Speaker 12: thirty feet high. We walked past some old tents that

2328
02:09:02,320 --> 02:09:06,600
Speaker 12: were slashed apart during the January raid. Among the destroyed

2329
02:09:06,600 --> 02:09:09,600
Speaker 12: remains were little pink flowers growing out of the ground.

2330
02:09:10,480 --> 02:09:14,520
Speaker 12: Next we headed to Entrenchment Creek. Joe Perry explained some

2331
02:09:14,560 --> 02:09:18,040
Speaker 12: of the background regarding the environmental state of the watershed

2332
02:09:18,400 --> 02:09:20,920
Speaker 12: and how protecting the forest is a crucial step in

2333
02:09:20,960 --> 02:09:23,440
Speaker 12: the process of helping the land heal itself.

2334
02:09:24,560 --> 02:09:28,280
Speaker 22: I got involved with a group called the South River

2335
02:09:28,320 --> 02:09:32,400
Speaker 22: Forest Coalition. We are trying to help further the vision

2336
02:09:32,600 --> 02:09:35,800
Speaker 22: of the South River Forest that Ryan Gravelle and the

2337
02:09:35,880 --> 02:09:40,440
Speaker 22: Nature Conservancy came up with to try to interweave about

2338
02:09:40,480 --> 02:09:45,200
Speaker 22: thirty five hundred acres of forest with the other businesses

2339
02:09:45,240 --> 02:09:48,560
Speaker 22: and homes and lands around this area that are in

2340
02:09:48,600 --> 02:09:52,520
Speaker 22: the watershed of the South River Forest. And Entrenchment Creek,

2341
02:09:52,680 --> 02:09:56,120
Speaker 22: which we will see on this tour, is the main

2342
02:09:56,200 --> 02:09:59,320
Speaker 22: tributary to the South River. The South River is the

2343
02:09:59,360 --> 02:10:03,200
Speaker 22: fourth most dangered river in this country and trenchmck Creek

2344
02:10:03,280 --> 02:10:08,000
Speaker 22: is one of the most polluted creeks in this county.

2345
02:10:08,560 --> 02:10:11,960
Speaker 22: And so that is what we're trying to protect. And

2346
02:10:12,000 --> 02:10:14,920
Speaker 22: in order to protect a river and a creek and

2347
02:10:14,960 --> 02:10:17,600
Speaker 22: a watershed, you have to protect the forest that's around it.

2348
02:10:18,360 --> 02:10:21,720
Speaker 22: I've been exploring these woods for the last decade and

2349
02:10:22,040 --> 02:10:25,040
Speaker 22: leading tours and talking to people about it, trying to

2350
02:10:25,080 --> 02:10:27,600
Speaker 22: explain what's going on with a lawsuit, trying to explain

2351
02:10:27,640 --> 02:10:30,040
Speaker 22: what's going on, the difference between in Trenchmth Creek Park

2352
02:10:30,080 --> 02:10:33,760
Speaker 22: and you know, the prison farm and the acreage and

2353
02:10:33,800 --> 02:10:35,880
Speaker 22: all these other things and all that stuff. It's just

2354
02:10:36,040 --> 02:10:39,440
Speaker 22: like it's just gears turning in your head because when

2355
02:10:39,480 --> 02:10:41,560
Speaker 22: you come out here and enjoy this, I mean, this

2356
02:10:41,640 --> 02:10:43,480
Speaker 22: is really what it's all about. This is all we

2357
02:10:43,560 --> 02:10:46,360
Speaker 22: have to do to convince people that this is worth

2358
02:10:46,400 --> 02:10:49,160
Speaker 22: saving it. Just bring you out here and let you

2359
02:10:49,200 --> 02:10:50,200
Speaker 22: appreciate it.

2360
02:10:50,280 --> 02:10:54,280
Speaker 12: As masses of people converged at Wallani People's Park Saturday afternoon,

2361
02:10:54,840 --> 02:10:57,880
Speaker 12: almost immediately a whole bunch of pop up infrastructure was

2362
02:10:57,960 --> 02:11:01,000
Speaker 12: set up to facilitate an encampment in the woods once again,

2363
02:11:01,680 --> 02:11:03,600
Speaker 12: really for the first time in any kind of large

2364
02:11:03,600 --> 02:11:08,760
Speaker 12: capacity since January and even December. The December raids decimated

2365
02:11:08,920 --> 02:11:12,160
Speaker 12: much of the camp infrastructure, which still had not been

2366
02:11:12,200 --> 02:11:16,640
Speaker 12: rebuilt since then. But upon arriving from Gresham Park on Saturday,

2367
02:11:17,000 --> 02:11:19,680
Speaker 12: both first time of visitors to the Wallani Forest and

2368
02:11:19,880 --> 02:11:23,720
Speaker 12: seasoned forest defenders worked together to rebuild a lot of

2369
02:11:23,760 --> 02:11:26,920
Speaker 12: that infrastructure to support camp life for the next week.

2370
02:11:27,360 --> 02:11:28,960
Speaker 15: One of the things that we saw on the march

2371
02:11:29,560 --> 02:11:33,840
Speaker 15: in was like eight cinder blocks right at the entrance

2372
02:11:33,880 --> 02:11:37,200
Speaker 15: to the living room, and then you and I went

2373
02:11:37,240 --> 02:11:40,000
Speaker 15: into the living room, we saw these huge water tanks.

2374
02:11:40,000 --> 02:11:43,280
Speaker 15: So later they moved those water tanks to those those

2375
02:11:43,320 --> 02:11:47,320
Speaker 15: cinder blocks, and that has become or a watering point

2376
02:11:47,360 --> 02:11:50,800
Speaker 15: for everyone. So like twice a day a truck comes

2377
02:11:51,360 --> 02:11:53,480
Speaker 15: with a water tank on the back and then they

2378
02:11:53,600 --> 02:11:57,000
Speaker 15: go through the arduous process of filling that water so

2379
02:11:57,040 --> 02:12:01,120
Speaker 15: that everybody in camp can have water. They had this

2380
02:12:01,200 --> 02:12:04,880
Speaker 15: system that was seemingly self organized. And then that first

2381
02:12:04,960 --> 02:12:07,640
Speaker 15: day we were sitting in the parking lot and it

2382
02:12:07,680 --> 02:12:09,560
Speaker 15: seemed like every time you turn around there was like

2383
02:12:09,600 --> 02:12:15,360
Speaker 15: a different train of people carrying supplies into the living room.

2384
02:12:15,800 --> 02:12:20,960
Speaker 15: The second day, there was a woman who was shoveling

2385
02:12:21,160 --> 02:12:25,920
Speaker 15: gravel from the torn up concrete on the side, and

2386
02:12:25,960 --> 02:12:28,600
Speaker 15: she was filling all of the random holes in the

2387
02:12:28,640 --> 02:12:32,440
Speaker 15: ground so that carts could go up them. And I

2388
02:12:32,920 --> 02:12:35,680
Speaker 15: was like, you know, did somebody assign this to you?

2389
02:12:35,760 --> 02:12:38,320
Speaker 15: She's like, no, I saw this. It just needed to

2390
02:12:38,320 --> 02:12:40,520
Speaker 15: be done, and I did it. And that was very

2391
02:12:40,600 --> 02:12:44,960
Speaker 15: much the entire vibe of those first I would say

2392
02:12:44,960 --> 02:12:47,440
Speaker 15: twenty four hours was okay, what do we need to

2393
02:12:47,480 --> 02:12:48,680
Speaker 15: do to get this thing running?

2394
02:12:49,400 --> 02:12:54,320
Speaker 12: As encampments were being established, simultaneously, infrastructure for the South

2395
02:12:54,440 --> 02:12:57,960
Speaker 12: River Music Festival was being erected in the adjacent radio

2396
02:12:58,080 --> 02:13:01,600
Speaker 12: control field. Within a short amount of time, a full

2397
02:13:01,640 --> 02:13:06,360
Speaker 12: stage was constructed, complete with lights and speakers, lining the

2398
02:13:06,400 --> 02:13:09,960
Speaker 12: sides of the field, where various tables and booths. One

2399
02:13:10,000 --> 02:13:13,000
Speaker 12: side featured a large variety of refreshments, as well as

2400
02:13:13,000 --> 02:13:15,680
Speaker 12: a medic tent, and the other side was home to

2401
02:13:15,960 --> 02:13:19,840
Speaker 12: free hot food and freshly grilled burgers and hot dogs.

2402
02:13:19,880 --> 02:13:22,560
Speaker 12: Next to the food were a few tables distributing an

2403
02:13:22,680 --> 02:13:26,880
Speaker 12: array of radical literature posters and stickers. What was your

2404
02:13:26,880 --> 02:13:28,320
Speaker 12: favorite stuff at the music FESTE tu?

2405
02:13:28,680 --> 02:13:31,600
Speaker 15: Well, there was an arepa table, and I'm very food motivated.

2406
02:13:31,600 --> 02:13:34,880
Speaker 15: So the arapas were delicious, and we had walked a

2407
02:13:34,920 --> 02:13:38,280
Speaker 15: bunch that day, so yeah, I needed sustenance. And then

2408
02:13:39,280 --> 02:13:41,240
Speaker 15: there was the burger table as well, but we I

2409
02:13:41,280 --> 02:13:43,400
Speaker 15: don't think. I don't know if you got a burger,

2410
02:13:43,440 --> 02:13:44,480
Speaker 15: but I did not get a burger.

2411
02:13:44,600 --> 02:13:46,440
Speaker 12: I got I got one burger, but they were out

2412
02:13:46,440 --> 02:13:48,360
Speaker 12: of buns when I got a burger, so I had

2413
02:13:48,360 --> 02:13:52,600
Speaker 12: a lettuce burger, and then soon after they they got

2414
02:13:52,600 --> 02:13:53,440
Speaker 12: the buns.

2415
02:13:53,120 --> 02:13:54,839
Speaker 4: Back, and I was kind of kind of bummed.

2416
02:13:55,280 --> 02:13:58,080
Speaker 15: Yeah, I did not, Well, at least you got something,

2417
02:13:58,680 --> 02:13:59,600
Speaker 15: but I had the arapis.

2418
02:13:59,600 --> 02:14:02,440
Speaker 12: So I mean stundth To be fair, hundreds of people

2419
02:14:02,480 --> 02:14:05,040
Speaker 12: were they've fed for They've said five hundred people, you know,

2420
02:14:05,280 --> 02:14:08,200
Speaker 12: And at one point they made announcement that like they

2421
02:14:08,240 --> 02:14:10,360
Speaker 12: needed to do another food run just to go get

2422
02:14:10,400 --> 02:14:14,200
Speaker 12: more more food, and like a bunch of people volunteered.

2423
02:14:13,640 --> 02:14:15,520
Speaker 15: And you know, only I think two or three went

2424
02:14:15,720 --> 02:14:17,480
Speaker 15: down to Walmart to get a bunch of more burgers

2425
02:14:17,480 --> 02:14:19,720
Speaker 15: and hot dogs. And it was just a really cool moment.

2426
02:14:19,720 --> 02:14:21,760
Speaker 15: And so I think by the end the end of

2427
02:14:21,800 --> 02:14:23,440
Speaker 15: the night when I was there, they were about five

2428
02:14:23,480 --> 02:14:27,320
Speaker 15: hundred people just enjoying the music and looking at the sky.

2429
02:14:27,440 --> 02:14:29,720
Speaker 15: It was just an immaculate vibe. There was a little

2430
02:14:29,840 --> 02:14:33,560
Speaker 15: fire pick off to the side. And yeah, you talked

2431
02:14:33,560 --> 02:14:35,480
Speaker 15: about the setting up the stage. You know, I didn't

2432
02:14:35,520 --> 02:14:39,560
Speaker 15: know what to expect walking in there, was not expecting

2433
02:14:40,520 --> 02:14:43,080
Speaker 15: quite that much of a production. I wasn't expecting a

2434
02:14:43,240 --> 02:14:47,040
Speaker 15: light fledged stage with lights all around sort of in

2435
02:14:47,080 --> 02:14:50,160
Speaker 15: this really like the lighting worked really well for it's

2436
02:14:50,720 --> 02:14:53,440
Speaker 15: it backdropped the surrounding for it like.

2437
02:14:53,480 --> 02:14:54,960
Speaker 5: Nice like green and purple lighting.

2438
02:14:55,040 --> 02:14:55,680
Speaker 12: Yeah, it was, it was.

2439
02:14:55,960 --> 02:14:56,440
Speaker 5: It was great.

2440
02:14:56,760 --> 02:14:59,440
Speaker 15: And then they had that green room tent back there,

2441
02:14:59,480 --> 02:15:01,400
Speaker 15: and then they had a separate ten for equipment. Like

2442
02:15:01,800 --> 02:15:05,960
Speaker 15: it was a very well thought out festival in the

2443
02:15:05,960 --> 02:15:06,640
Speaker 15: middle of nowhere.

2444
02:15:07,040 --> 02:15:10,480
Speaker 12: The South River Music Festival began early Saturday evening at

2445
02:15:10,520 --> 02:15:13,560
Speaker 12: five point thirty, kicking off two days of local musical

2446
02:15:13,680 --> 02:15:17,880
Speaker 12: artists playing shows free of charge. Before the lineup of

2447
02:15:17,920 --> 02:15:21,320
Speaker 12: live music began, someone on stage read out a small

2448
02:15:21,360 --> 02:15:25,000
Speaker 12: flyer that was being passed around, detailing the reasoning for

2449
02:15:25,080 --> 02:15:28,200
Speaker 12: the festival and its place within the fight to defend

2450
02:15:28,200 --> 02:15:31,760
Speaker 12: the forest. And I got permission to share that reading.

2451
02:15:32,440 --> 02:15:36,160
Speaker 23: In the limitless possibilities of the cosmos, in the mad

2452
02:15:36,280 --> 02:15:40,640
Speaker 23: flocks of events, reactions, and anomalies of the past twelve

2453
02:15:40,760 --> 02:15:44,440
Speaker 23: billion years since the birth of our universe, it's a

2454
02:15:44,520 --> 02:15:49,560
Speaker 23: statistical impossibility that we would be here now, But here

2455
02:15:49,600 --> 02:15:50,520
Speaker 23: we are alive.

2456
02:15:50,600 --> 02:15:51,000
Speaker 24: Together.

2457
02:15:51,720 --> 02:15:56,000
Speaker 23: Such incredible circumstances have brought us here, among them the

2458
02:15:56,080 --> 02:15:59,800
Speaker 23: incredible and innovative resistance to defend this place.

2459
02:15:59,800 --> 02:16:03,160
Speaker 24: For becoming a police training compound.

2460
02:16:06,240 --> 02:16:07,600
Speaker 8: Magic rooms.

2461
02:16:08,840 --> 02:16:12,040
Speaker 23: This resistance, which brings us together the most cunning and

2462
02:16:12,080 --> 02:16:16,920
Speaker 23: resilient techniques of the radical environmentalist movement with the incredible

2463
02:16:16,960 --> 02:16:20,600
Speaker 23: courage and ferocity of the George Floyd Uprising, is not

2464
02:16:20,720 --> 02:16:22,320
Speaker 23: just about a small piece of land.

2465
02:16:22,840 --> 02:16:24,440
Speaker 24: It's not about being fought.

2466
02:16:24,200 --> 02:16:27,360
Speaker 23: Between police and their goons on one hand and some

2467
02:16:27,440 --> 02:16:30,640
Speaker 23: activists and their friends on the other. We are witnessing

2468
02:16:30,680 --> 02:16:33,920
Speaker 23: a collision of two competing ideas of happiness, of.

2469
02:16:33,959 --> 02:16:35,160
Speaker 24: Life, of the future.

2470
02:16:38,160 --> 02:16:41,640
Speaker 23: In this competition, experiments with new types of Greek culture

2471
02:16:41,680 --> 02:16:43,039
Speaker 23: play a decisive role.

2472
02:16:43,600 --> 02:16:45,640
Speaker 24: This movement cannot be reduced.

2473
02:16:45,240 --> 02:16:48,840
Speaker 23: To what is happening in city hall, on social media,

2474
02:16:49,040 --> 02:16:53,240
Speaker 23: or in meetings. For two years we have descended on

2475
02:16:53,280 --> 02:16:56,440
Speaker 23: these woods, finding refuge from the high rents and predatory

2476
02:16:56,440 --> 02:17:00,200
Speaker 23: bookings fees of the corporate venues and bars, and not

2477
02:17:00,360 --> 02:17:04,760
Speaker 23: come here to redecorate the actions of some activists as allies,

2478
02:17:04,879 --> 02:17:07,760
Speaker 23: lending our service to the drab and loveless militancy of

2479
02:17:07,800 --> 02:17:11,760
Speaker 23: something we do not otherwise care about. As the gentrification

2480
02:17:11,920 --> 02:17:15,920
Speaker 23: of Atlanta intensifies, more and more diy venues and clubs

2481
02:17:16,160 --> 02:17:19,039
Speaker 23: are shutdown, and free spaces to play shows and dance

2482
02:17:19,080 --> 02:17:22,440
Speaker 23: are push further and further from the city center. Our

2483
02:17:22,480 --> 02:17:25,480
Speaker 23: free time is pinched as rents increase and traffic keeps

2484
02:17:25,520 --> 02:17:26,920
Speaker 23: us waiting longer and longer.

2485
02:17:27,480 --> 02:17:32,720
Speaker 24: That is going to change.

2486
02:17:32,920 --> 02:17:35,840
Speaker 23: Music is not like other forms of human culture. It

2487
02:17:35,920 --> 02:17:40,680
Speaker 23: is different from painting, drawing, poetry, literature, or film art.

2488
02:17:40,760 --> 02:17:45,640
Speaker 23: Politics and symbolic culture in general represent the passions conjuring

2489
02:17:45,720 --> 02:17:49,000
Speaker 23: strong feelings from the shadows of reality, pulling them from

2490
02:17:49,000 --> 02:17:52,720
Speaker 23: the depths of the soul or the back of consciousness. Music,

2491
02:17:52,840 --> 02:17:56,080
Speaker 23: on the other hand, is perhaps the only form of

2492
02:17:56,160 --> 02:18:01,360
Speaker 23: human creativity that contacts those feelings without any media. Music

2493
02:18:01,480 --> 02:18:06,240
Speaker 23: is physics, music is reality. The system we live in

2494
02:18:06,400 --> 02:18:11,599
Speaker 23: is at war with reality. The system is destroying forests, rivers, mountaintops,

2495
02:18:11,600 --> 02:18:15,920
Speaker 23: and oceans. It's destroying our imaginations, our bodies, and our world.

2496
02:18:16,520 --> 02:18:19,760
Speaker 23: To defend ourselves from certain annihilation, it will not be

2497
02:18:19,800 --> 02:18:22,200
Speaker 23: sufficient to strike the right notes at the right time.

2498
02:18:23,680 --> 02:18:25,800
Speaker 23: We will have to make recourse to other means, to

2499
02:18:25,879 --> 02:18:30,640
Speaker 23: more direct means, and that is why we're all here.

2500
02:18:33,040 --> 02:18:36,600
Speaker 23: The defend the Atlanta Forest Revolution will be economic, political,

2501
02:18:36,720 --> 02:18:39,600
Speaker 23: as well as cultural. We're building a new era of

2502
02:18:39,680 --> 02:18:42,360
Speaker 23: human history where music will be at the steering wheel.

2503
02:18:42,920 --> 02:18:45,720
Speaker 23: What is needed cannot be taught without first being discovered.

2504
02:18:46,120 --> 02:18:49,600
Speaker 23: We are those adventurers plunging the depths of the cosmos

2505
02:18:49,640 --> 02:18:52,760
Speaker 23: for the contours and textures of a free existence, of

2506
02:18:52,800 --> 02:18:56,160
Speaker 23: a life without dead time. When it is necessary, we

2507
02:18:56,160 --> 02:18:58,800
Speaker 23: will defend ourselves by the means appropriate to the task.

2508
02:18:59,360 --> 02:19:00,560
Speaker 24: Not with words. It's not with.

2509
02:19:00,560 --> 02:19:05,320
Speaker 23: Denunciations, but with actions, real and concrete, actions as real

2510
02:19:05,360 --> 02:19:09,920
Speaker 23: as the sounds, as real as reality.

2511
02:19:11,040 --> 02:19:13,200
Speaker 24: I'm so lucky to be here with y'all. Thank you.

2512
02:19:14,480 --> 02:19:17,120
Speaker 12: Across the middle of the field, hundreds of people laid

2513
02:19:17,120 --> 02:19:21,520
Speaker 12: out blankets on the grass and dirt. Concertgoers alternated between

2514
02:19:21,520 --> 02:19:24,360
Speaker 12: a dancing in front of the stage and relaxing and

2515
02:19:24,400 --> 02:19:28,440
Speaker 12: eating food on picnic blankets. As the night approached, over

2516
02:19:28,480 --> 02:19:31,440
Speaker 12: a thousand people were spread out across the RC field.

2517
02:19:32,000 --> 02:19:34,440
Speaker 12: Amoshe pit had formed directly in front of the stage.

2518
02:19:35,000 --> 02:19:39,520
Speaker 12: Musicians led stop Kopcity chants, and between sets, people spoke

2519
02:19:39,560 --> 02:19:40,800
Speaker 12: on mic about the movement.

2520
02:19:41,640 --> 02:19:46,959
Speaker 14: Everybody say stop cop City, Stop cop City.

2521
02:19:49,000 --> 02:19:50,039
Speaker 8: That's right, that's right.

2522
02:19:50,360 --> 02:19:53,920
Speaker 12: Saturday Night was headlined by local Atlanta rapper Zach Fox.

2523
02:19:54,600 --> 02:19:57,160
Speaker 12: Zach told stories about how he and his friends used

2524
02:19:57,200 --> 02:19:59,879
Speaker 12: to hang out in this very forest as teenagers.

2525
02:20:00,400 --> 02:20:03,480
Speaker 25: All Right, y'all, man, hey, I'm gonna say this. Fuck

2526
02:20:03,520 --> 02:20:08,560
Speaker 25: the mayor. I'm gonna say this, Fuck the mayor, and

2527
02:20:09,120 --> 02:20:13,880
Speaker 25: fuck all this shit. And I love everybody for coming

2528
02:20:13,920 --> 02:20:14,960
Speaker 25: out to support this ship.

2529
02:20:15,040 --> 02:20:16,439
Speaker 8: Do you're really fucking.

2530
02:20:20,440 --> 02:20:22,160
Speaker 5: When I tell you me, Archie.

2531
02:20:22,240 --> 02:20:24,560
Speaker 25: Everybody used to walk back in these woods and drink

2532
02:20:24,600 --> 02:20:29,800
Speaker 25: red stripes and and walk our dogs and shoot guns

2533
02:20:29,879 --> 02:20:33,600
Speaker 25: and shit. So I really don't want to see this

2534
02:20:33,640 --> 02:20:36,800
Speaker 25: shit happen. And I really appreciate alli y'all for coming

2535
02:20:36,800 --> 02:20:37,480
Speaker 25: out to do this shit.

2536
02:20:38,920 --> 02:20:42,400
Speaker 12: Fuck a cop City Chance erupted pretty regularly throughout the night.

2537
02:20:43,080 --> 02:20:44,520
Speaker 25: And this is all I'm gonna tell the police. This

2538
02:20:44,560 --> 02:20:46,080
Speaker 25: is all I'm gonna tell the police. Okay, hold on,

2539
02:20:46,240 --> 02:20:47,560
Speaker 25: let me make sure I push the right button.

2540
02:20:54,840 --> 02:20:59,480
Speaker 26: Say that ship. Let's go fucking right it fucking right

2541
02:20:59,560 --> 02:21:06,560
Speaker 26: it fucking running, fucking running, fucking running, fucking run it,

2542
02:21:07,480 --> 02:21:08,320
Speaker 26: fucking run it.

2543
02:21:12,360 --> 02:21:12,840
Speaker 24: Atlanta.

2544
02:21:13,600 --> 02:21:20,600
Speaker 25: I love y'all so much, man, Hell yeah, hey, man,

2545
02:21:22,200 --> 02:21:23,320
Speaker 25: let me say something real quick.

2546
02:21:23,440 --> 02:21:24,800
Speaker 5: Let me say something real quick before I get the

2547
02:21:24,800 --> 02:21:26,520
Speaker 5: fuck out, savee. Let my hummies right this shit.

2548
02:21:26,640 --> 02:21:28,520
Speaker 25: I love y'all so much for supporting this shit.

2549
02:21:29,000 --> 02:21:29,200
Speaker 8: I have.

2550
02:21:29,920 --> 02:21:30,440
Speaker 14: Let me tell you.

2551
02:21:30,640 --> 02:21:31,440
Speaker 7: Let me tell you something.

2552
02:21:31,959 --> 02:21:32,560
Speaker 8: I'm thirty two.

2553
02:21:32,640 --> 02:21:34,600
Speaker 25: A lot of niggas start getting old and they lose.

2554
02:21:34,440 --> 02:21:35,920
Speaker 14: Faith in the youth. I got so much faith in

2555
02:21:36,000 --> 02:21:37,480
Speaker 14: everybody in this motherfucking bitch.

2556
02:21:41,640 --> 02:21:44,360
Speaker 25: Wherever y'all going, I'm going, I truly believe that y'all

2557
02:21:44,360 --> 02:21:45,640
Speaker 25: gonna save this motherfucking world.

2558
02:21:45,800 --> 02:21:46,640
Speaker 23: So I'm with y'all.

2559
02:21:47,920 --> 02:21:55,080
Speaker 25: Fuck Cop City, fuck cops in general, fuck twelve, fuck authoritarianism,

2560
02:21:55,200 --> 02:21:56,920
Speaker 25: fuck capitalism, fuck all that bullshit.

2561
02:21:56,920 --> 02:21:59,880
Speaker 8: I'm with y'all to the end. So I motherfucking die.

2562
02:22:03,040 --> 02:22:04,880
Speaker 8: So let me hear y'all say this one more time.

2563
02:22:05,200 --> 02:22:09,200
Speaker 5: Start bud Wow, Start Bob Wow.

2564
02:22:10,520 --> 02:22:14,400
Speaker 26: Start bob whow stiite Bob Wow.

2565
02:22:15,560 --> 02:22:18,760
Speaker 12: Besides the domestic terrorism banner I mentioned in the opening

2566
02:22:18,800 --> 02:22:22,040
Speaker 12: of this episode, another banner was hung up beside the

2567
02:22:22,080 --> 02:22:27,160
Speaker 12: stage featuring turtles and butterflies, along with the Asada Shakur quote.

2568
02:22:27,680 --> 02:22:30,440
Speaker 12: Love is our sword, truth is our compass.

2569
02:22:32,120 --> 02:22:34,360
Speaker 3: This kind of music is about the naty of nature,

2570
02:22:35,520 --> 02:22:39,000
Speaker 3: filling the trees, feeling the crowd filling each other.

2571
02:22:40,680 --> 02:22:43,840
Speaker 5: Look right up there, look at the fucking moon.

2572
02:22:47,560 --> 02:22:51,480
Speaker 12: To quote a communicate from the Sonic Defense Committee quote,

2573
02:22:51,720 --> 02:22:54,800
Speaker 12: at this point, it was impossible to imagine a meaningful

2574
02:22:54,879 --> 02:22:58,800
Speaker 12: police intervention. The crowd was made up of elderly people,

2575
02:22:59,000 --> 02:23:04,879
Speaker 12: university students, rappers, indigenous activists, toddlers and newborns, skaters, people

2576
02:23:05,000 --> 02:23:09,320
Speaker 12: of all imaginable Atlanta demographics. The night ended around three

2577
02:23:09,480 --> 02:23:12,760
Speaker 12: thirty am to sounds of house techno and drum and

2578
02:23:12,800 --> 02:23:14,520
Speaker 12: bass without any notable incident.

2579
02:23:14,800 --> 02:23:15,279
Speaker 5: Unquote.

2580
02:23:16,240 --> 02:23:18,960
Speaker 12: Tents were set up all over the eastern side of

2581
02:23:19,040 --> 02:23:22,000
Speaker 12: the forest, with many people choosing to sleep under the

2582
02:23:22,040 --> 02:23:25,119
Speaker 12: tree canopy between the living room and the music festival

2583
02:23:25,240 --> 02:23:28,240
Speaker 12: for that first night. As the night went on, people

2584
02:23:28,400 --> 02:23:32,320
Speaker 12: carefully tended small campfires both in the festival field and

2585
02:23:32,560 --> 02:23:34,680
Speaker 12: in the middle of the living room. To quote the

2586
02:23:34,680 --> 02:23:38,600
Speaker 12: press collective, the movement was once again living in joyous

2587
02:23:38,640 --> 02:23:43,039
Speaker 12: harmony with the forest it had promised to protect. Tomorrow's

2588
02:23:43,080 --> 02:23:46,200
Speaker 12: episode will cover day two of the music festival, the

2589
02:23:46,360 --> 02:23:50,360
Speaker 12: frankly unprecedented direct action that took place Sunday afternoon, and

2590
02:23:50,600 --> 02:23:53,640
Speaker 12: a more detailed look at the police raid that happened

2591
02:23:53,760 --> 02:23:59,600
Speaker 12: later that evening. See You on the other Side. Music

2592
02:23:59,640 --> 02:24:12,600
Speaker 12: Festival audio courtesy of Unicorn Riot Welcome back to it

2593
02:24:12,680 --> 02:24:15,720
Speaker 12: could happen here. This is part two of my mini

2594
02:24:15,840 --> 02:24:18,920
Speaker 12: series detailing the March Week of Action to defend the

2595
02:24:18,920 --> 02:24:23,240
Speaker 12: Atlanta Forest and stop Coop City. Last episode, we covered

2596
02:24:23,320 --> 02:24:26,280
Speaker 12: the Week of Action kickoff rally at Gresham Park and

2597
02:24:26,720 --> 02:24:30,080
Speaker 12: Day one of the South River Music Festival. Will be

2598
02:24:30,160 --> 02:24:33,040
Speaker 12: picking up basically right where we left off, starting with

2599
02:24:33,160 --> 02:24:36,480
Speaker 12: my conversation with Matt from the Atlanta Community Press Collective.

2600
02:24:37,000 --> 02:24:39,320
Speaker 12: Saturday night, there was music going on to like four am.

2601
02:24:39,560 --> 02:24:42,280
Speaker 12: It was a long night, but like a really good night.

2602
02:24:43,160 --> 02:24:44,080
Speaker 12: What was your Sunday?

2603
02:24:44,200 --> 02:24:48,480
Speaker 15: Like Sunday, You know, Sunday started off really great, like

2604
02:24:49,320 --> 02:24:51,280
Speaker 15: walking in the first thing you see when you walked

2605
02:24:51,320 --> 02:24:55,080
Speaker 15: back onto the festival grounds was this amazing bouncy house

2606
02:24:55,200 --> 02:24:58,760
Speaker 15: that they had written some guidelines up there that it

2607
02:24:58,920 --> 02:25:02,160
Speaker 15: did seem like everyone fall foh you could fit six adults,

2608
02:25:02,200 --> 02:25:05,600
Speaker 15: which like for a bouncy house, that's pretty large.

2609
02:25:05,760 --> 02:25:07,120
Speaker 5: It was a big bouncy house.

2610
02:25:07,600 --> 02:25:09,160
Speaker 15: It was like six of dollars through twelve kids or

2611
02:25:09,200 --> 02:25:13,200
Speaker 15: something like that. So, yeah, you see this bouncy house,

2612
02:25:13,240 --> 02:25:15,720
Speaker 15: and like when you see that the first thing, but

2613
02:25:15,959 --> 02:25:20,880
Speaker 15: I think that visually sets the entire expectation, Like that

2614
02:25:21,360 --> 02:25:23,480
Speaker 15: is a statement in and of itself of like what

2615
02:25:24,040 --> 02:25:25,600
Speaker 15: they were going for that first.

2616
02:25:25,480 --> 02:25:29,039
Speaker 12: Day Day two of the music festival started around noon.

2617
02:25:29,680 --> 02:25:31,600
Speaker 12: Right in the middle of the rc field was this

2618
02:25:31,959 --> 02:25:35,920
Speaker 12: large rainbow colored bouncy castle adorned with a stop Copcity banner.

2619
02:25:36,520 --> 02:25:39,480
Speaker 12: People slowly trickled in all over the course of the afternoon,

2620
02:25:39,800 --> 02:25:42,600
Speaker 12: culminating in about one thousand people scattered across the field

2621
02:25:42,680 --> 02:25:46,279
Speaker 12: by four pm. Just like the night before, people enjoyed

2622
02:25:46,360 --> 02:25:50,160
Speaker 12: free food, Defend the Forest related literature, and a bustling

2623
02:25:50,240 --> 02:25:53,960
Speaker 12: refreshment booth while listening to live music. People played a

2624
02:25:54,000 --> 02:25:57,200
Speaker 12: soccer and frisbee in the open field, while others were

2625
02:25:57,280 --> 02:26:00,400
Speaker 12: continuing to build camp infrastructure in the forest.

2626
02:26:01,080 --> 02:26:03,960
Speaker 15: So I think the bousing castle set the tone and

2627
02:26:04,040 --> 02:26:07,120
Speaker 15: everything was really lighthearted for the first few hours. I

2628
02:26:07,200 --> 02:26:13,120
Speaker 15: spent most of that day walking around watching this like

2629
02:26:13,320 --> 02:26:16,080
Speaker 15: autonomous infrastructure in the forest kind of pop up on

2630
02:26:16,200 --> 02:26:19,400
Speaker 15: its own. It's like everywhere I went, you know, to

2631
02:26:19,480 --> 02:26:23,320
Speaker 15: the parking lot, you saw trains of people carrying like

2632
02:26:24,040 --> 02:26:28,760
Speaker 15: water and supplies deep into the forest. Everyone seemed to

2633
02:26:28,840 --> 02:26:30,680
Speaker 15: just be trying to find a place to fit in

2634
02:26:31,000 --> 02:26:34,200
Speaker 15: and to work and to really participate in the Week

2635
02:26:34,240 --> 02:26:34,560
Speaker 15: of Action.

2636
02:26:35,400 --> 02:26:38,400
Speaker 12: As the day went on, rumors started to circulate about

2637
02:26:38,480 --> 02:26:43,240
Speaker 12: inaction happening Later that afternoon, word quickly spread that people

2638
02:26:43,240 --> 02:26:46,360
Speaker 12: would meet up in the RC field at five pm.

2639
02:26:47,120 --> 02:26:50,720
Speaker 12: Eventually a flyer was posted to social media, and sure enough,

2640
02:26:50,879 --> 02:26:53,680
Speaker 12: come five o'clock, a group of a few hundred people

2641
02:26:53,959 --> 02:26:57,640
Speaker 12: made up of individuals and affinity groups, gathered behind the

2642
02:26:57,720 --> 02:27:00,960
Speaker 12: bouncy castle, most of whom were masked up and a

2643
02:27:01,080 --> 02:27:04,920
Speaker 12: donning some form of black block or camo block. A

2644
02:27:05,000 --> 02:27:08,080
Speaker 12: communicating posted later on the website scenes dot no blogs

2645
02:27:08,080 --> 02:27:11,640
Speaker 12: dot org described the feeling on the ground quote, the

2646
02:27:11,760 --> 02:27:16,720
Speaker 12: air was tense, no visible rage, just a stealed determination.

2647
02:27:17,480 --> 02:27:19,840
Speaker 12: No one knew what was coming next, but we knew

2648
02:27:19,920 --> 02:27:20,880
Speaker 12: it was something big.

2649
02:27:21,840 --> 02:27:23,920
Speaker 15: That was that was quite the visual like this, this

2650
02:27:24,240 --> 02:27:26,960
Speaker 15: this crowd of camo and black block, and like some

2651
02:27:27,120 --> 02:27:30,280
Speaker 15: people wearing normal clothes who I don't think quite knew

2652
02:27:30,280 --> 02:27:33,880
Speaker 15: what they were about to do next to this massive

2653
02:27:34,040 --> 02:27:39,440
Speaker 15: bouncy castle. And I think that that the visual of

2654
02:27:39,520 --> 02:27:43,760
Speaker 15: it kind of represents like two aspects of the movement,

2655
02:27:43,920 --> 02:27:47,680
Speaker 15: right like the militant aspect and the joyful aspect, and

2656
02:27:47,760 --> 02:27:52,160
Speaker 15: I think they're both very central to to what you know,

2657
02:27:52,360 --> 02:27:53,040
Speaker 15: the movement is.

2658
02:27:53,280 --> 02:27:56,680
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's a pretty good encapsulation of the diversity present

2659
02:27:57,520 --> 02:27:59,920
Speaker 12: around the defend the forest and stop cup City move.

2660
02:28:00,840 --> 02:28:04,680
Speaker 12: There's a few hundred people in camera block walking down

2661
02:28:04,760 --> 02:28:08,160
Speaker 12: I believe is a constitution A lot of people just

2662
02:28:08,440 --> 02:28:17,200
Speaker 12: in black block, mix of legal observers here, police shoppers

2663
02:28:17,280 --> 02:28:26,080
Speaker 12: overhead are Currently people are marching west in the direction

2664
02:28:27,080 --> 02:28:31,040
Speaker 12: of the old Atlanta Prison Farm, the slate of the

2665
02:28:31,160 --> 02:28:33,560
Speaker 12: forest that cop City is.

2666
02:28:34,000 --> 02:28:35,240
Speaker 2: Planned to be built on.

2667
02:28:35,879 --> 02:28:38,720
Speaker 12: There has not really been a mass convergence of people

2668
02:28:39,120 --> 02:28:43,400
Speaker 12: like this in the forest in a long long time.

2669
02:28:43,560 --> 02:28:45,920
Speaker 12: I cannot remember the last time there was anything quite

2670
02:28:46,000 --> 02:28:48,280
Speaker 12: like this. This is definitely the biggest group of people

2671
02:28:48,320 --> 02:28:52,279
Speaker 12: who's ever like converged on marching on the old Atlanta

2672
02:28:52,959 --> 02:28:57,680
Speaker 12: Prison Farm area. Last year, people were occupying and living

2673
02:28:57,720 --> 02:28:59,959
Speaker 12: in the forest in that side. Since there are pres

2674
02:29:00,240 --> 02:29:03,840
Speaker 12: has intensified, more people have moved over across on the

2675
02:29:03,920 --> 02:29:06,640
Speaker 12: other side of Intrenchment Creek Park, on a slate of

2676
02:29:06,720 --> 02:29:10,960
Speaker 12: land closer to Willane People's Park and the section that

2677
02:29:11,280 --> 02:29:15,200
Speaker 12: Lyon MILSAP is wanting to develop. Definitely never seen this

2678
02:29:15,320 --> 02:29:20,360
Speaker 12: many people marching like this near the forest in a

2679
02:29:21,040 --> 02:29:24,800
Speaker 12: much more militant seeming group of the crowd, as opposed

2680
02:29:24,840 --> 02:29:28,560
Speaker 12: to Saturday's first march, which was like a thousand people

2681
02:29:29,400 --> 02:29:33,000
Speaker 12: of various types. Everyone here looks much more willing to

2682
02:29:33,520 --> 02:29:38,080
Speaker 12: throw down. As the group, around three hundred strong, left

2683
02:29:38,120 --> 02:29:42,160
Speaker 12: the RC field, they calmly marched west down Constitution Road

2684
02:29:42,440 --> 02:29:46,280
Speaker 12: toward the power line cut, accompanied overhead by a police

2685
02:29:46,360 --> 02:29:48,560
Speaker 12: chopper equipped with a thermal camera.

2686
02:29:49,640 --> 02:29:50,640
Speaker 2: Popter's still overhead.

2687
02:29:50,640 --> 02:29:51,400
Speaker 4: I'm sure you can hear it.

2688
02:29:53,440 --> 02:29:56,039
Speaker 12: To get a clear picture of what actually happened that day.

2689
02:29:56,440 --> 02:29:59,960
Speaker 12: It's useful to understand the geography of the Wilaanni Forest,

2690
02:30:00,680 --> 02:30:03,040
Speaker 12: especially since the police have tried to make it sound

2691
02:30:03,160 --> 02:30:06,000
Speaker 12: like the individuals who were arrested later that night were

2692
02:30:06,200 --> 02:30:09,080
Speaker 12: apprehended at the scene of the crime, which is not

2693
02:30:09,280 --> 02:30:10,080
Speaker 12: actually the case.

2694
02:30:10,560 --> 02:30:13,520
Speaker 15: The entire area that the defenders are trying to defend,

2695
02:30:13,560 --> 02:30:18,000
Speaker 15: the entire Weilani Forest, the contiguous part of it, is

2696
02:30:18,440 --> 02:30:22,240
Speaker 15: surrounded in sort of a triangle by three different roads,

2697
02:30:22,280 --> 02:30:26,560
Speaker 15: Constitution Key and Bouldercrest. All the way to the east

2698
02:30:26,720 --> 02:30:30,680
Speaker 15: is Wilani People's Park, and like just to the west

2699
02:30:30,720 --> 02:30:33,640
Speaker 15: of that is the RC Field where the music festival

2700
02:30:33,720 --> 02:30:37,120
Speaker 15: was happening, where the bouncy castle is and where our

2701
02:30:37,600 --> 02:30:40,880
Speaker 15: group that we're following here starts to gather. And then

2702
02:30:41,480 --> 02:30:46,680
Speaker 15: all the way to the west is the proposed site

2703
02:30:46,720 --> 02:30:50,720
Speaker 15: of copp City along Key Road. So to get there

2704
02:30:51,360 --> 02:30:55,640
Speaker 15: through the forest takes a good thirty forty five minutes

2705
02:30:56,680 --> 02:30:58,320
Speaker 15: to get there. You know, if you're on the road,

2706
02:30:58,440 --> 02:31:00,960
Speaker 15: is still like a twenty five thirty minute walk. It

2707
02:31:01,360 --> 02:31:07,200
Speaker 15: is not like anywhere close on foot. No, it's from

2708
02:31:07,240 --> 02:31:07,960
Speaker 15: point A to point B.

2709
02:31:08,120 --> 02:31:09,720
Speaker 12: And if you're crossing through those you also have to

2710
02:31:09,840 --> 02:31:13,359
Speaker 12: like jump over Entrenchment Creek, which is not the easiest

2711
02:31:13,520 --> 02:31:14,440
Speaker 12: creek to cross over.

2712
02:31:15,080 --> 02:31:17,360
Speaker 15: It's not the easiest and it's not the cleanest. It's

2713
02:31:17,400 --> 02:31:18,200
Speaker 15: something you want to step in.

2714
02:31:18,840 --> 02:31:21,120
Speaker 12: I'm at the back of the march now. Everyone's kind

2715
02:31:21,160 --> 02:31:24,480
Speaker 12: of tightened up into one larger, larger group. They've paused

2716
02:31:24,560 --> 02:31:28,360
Speaker 12: briefly and are retrieving some tires that have been found

2717
02:31:29,879 --> 02:31:34,600
Speaker 12: near the ditch on the road here, dozens and dozens

2718
02:31:34,640 --> 02:31:39,480
Speaker 12: of tires are blocking are blocking the road. They're getting

2719
02:31:39,520 --> 02:31:42,400
Speaker 12: moved out pretty quick, and the march is moving on. Oh,

2720
02:31:42,600 --> 02:31:44,640
Speaker 12: and looks like people arrived at the power line cut,

2721
02:31:45,760 --> 02:31:49,400
Speaker 12: this massive clearing for power lines to run north south.

2722
02:31:50,160 --> 02:31:54,280
Speaker 12: People are now marching on the green grass underneath the

2723
02:31:54,400 --> 02:31:58,000
Speaker 12: power lines. The thin clear cut for power lines has

2724
02:31:58,080 --> 02:32:01,320
Speaker 12: been there for years and directly leads to where cop

2725
02:32:01,400 --> 02:32:04,800
Speaker 12: City pre construction work is taking place near the north Gate.

2726
02:32:05,680 --> 02:32:08,200
Speaker 12: The open area makes it easy to traverse, but on

2727
02:32:08,240 --> 02:32:10,560
Speaker 12: the flip side, that also makes it easy to surveil.

2728
02:32:11,280 --> 02:32:14,120
Speaker 12: There were only a little over a dozen cops stationed

2729
02:32:14,160 --> 02:32:16,520
Speaker 12: at the north gate, as well as the police chopper

2730
02:32:16,640 --> 02:32:20,640
Speaker 12: circling overhead. The group of block is slowly, slowly moving

2731
02:32:20,720 --> 02:32:24,440
Speaker 12: north along the power line cut. I'm keeping my distance

2732
02:32:24,480 --> 02:32:27,360
Speaker 12: for now so that I can continue doing stuff without

2733
02:32:27,840 --> 02:32:31,680
Speaker 12: being extremely jeopardized. The block approached the north gate in

2734
02:32:31,760 --> 02:32:35,279
Speaker 12: broad daylight, with shields in hand and people behind throwing

2735
02:32:35,320 --> 02:32:39,359
Speaker 12: projectiles in the direction of police. A barrage of fireworks,

2736
02:32:39,520 --> 02:32:43,120
Speaker 12: rocks and just the sheer size of the crowd overwhelmed police,

2737
02:32:43,240 --> 02:32:46,520
Speaker 12: causing officers to retreat as a swarm of hundreds of

2738
02:32:46,560 --> 02:32:50,640
Speaker 12: people overtook the proposed cop City construction site and current

2739
02:32:50,760 --> 02:32:54,120
Speaker 12: police security upost within the Wollani Forest. All right, the

2740
02:32:54,160 --> 02:32:56,840
Speaker 12: group has marched a decent ways up. There's now fireworks

2741
02:32:56,920 --> 02:33:00,400
Speaker 12: in the distance. A police helicopter is still over head.

2742
02:33:00,760 --> 02:33:02,240
Speaker 12: Looks like most of the crowd is still in the

2743
02:33:02,320 --> 02:33:05,920
Speaker 12: area of the power line cut. A pretty condensed large

2744
02:33:05,920 --> 02:33:09,160
Speaker 12: group of people up there lots of fireworks. Like I said,

2745
02:33:09,879 --> 02:33:12,960
Speaker 12: some individuals chose to focus their efforts on repelling the

2746
02:33:13,040 --> 02:33:16,560
Speaker 12: nearby police, giving the opportunity for others to set their

2747
02:33:16,640 --> 02:33:20,200
Speaker 12: sights on various targets. The large number of people in

2748
02:33:20,280 --> 02:33:23,920
Speaker 12: the block together allowed for individuals to feel more safe

2749
02:33:24,000 --> 02:33:27,200
Speaker 12: and capable of taking action. The APDs put a call

2750
02:33:27,240 --> 02:33:29,120
Speaker 12: out to get any available units down here by the

2751
02:33:29,160 --> 02:33:31,880
Speaker 12: old line of prison farm property and a quote from

2752
02:33:31,879 --> 02:33:36,720
Speaker 12: the scanner audios get here now, assholes. Forest defenders smashed

2753
02:33:36,800 --> 02:33:40,640
Speaker 12: up and set ablaze and office trailer, two UTVs, a

2754
02:33:40,720 --> 02:33:44,279
Speaker 12: surveillance tower, and a front end loader as the police

2755
02:33:44,320 --> 02:33:48,560
Speaker 12: ran for cover behind a fenced off secondary smaller outpost across.

2756
02:33:48,200 --> 02:33:49,000
Speaker 5: From Key Road.

2757
02:33:49,600 --> 02:33:53,920
Speaker 12: Despite the police helicopter circling overhead the gathering spot for

2758
02:33:53,920 --> 02:33:56,680
Speaker 12: a good thirty minutes, it seems APD was not fully

2759
02:33:56,760 --> 02:33:59,840
Speaker 12: prepared in their response or just did not know what

2760
02:34:00,200 --> 02:34:03,000
Speaker 12: going on, because they made it a decent way without

2761
02:34:03,040 --> 02:34:07,480
Speaker 12: any visible resistance so far. A communicate posted online reads

2762
02:34:07,680 --> 02:34:11,040
Speaker 12: quote when we approached the gate. Finally it was not chaos,

2763
02:34:11,280 --> 02:34:14,640
Speaker 12: but it was something like it. Our crowd unleashed a

2764
02:34:14,760 --> 02:34:17,720
Speaker 12: wild burst of energy. It was incredible and I will

2765
02:34:17,760 --> 02:34:21,760
Speaker 12: never forget it. It was rhythmic almost We devastated all

2766
02:34:21,840 --> 02:34:25,280
Speaker 12: of their work, their vehicles, the trailer, everything. But it

2767
02:34:25,320 --> 02:34:28,760
Speaker 12: looks like Atlanta Police is now trying to converge. Lots

2768
02:34:28,800 --> 02:34:30,560
Speaker 12: of fireworks are still I see smoke.

2769
02:34:31,640 --> 02:34:32,400
Speaker 2: Oh, a lot of smoke.

2770
02:34:32,600 --> 02:34:34,800
Speaker 5: WHOA a lot of smoke.

2771
02:34:34,640 --> 02:34:38,039
Speaker 12: Very fast is filling up, filling up the area around

2772
02:34:38,760 --> 02:34:40,840
Speaker 12: the little It looks like it's by the little control

2773
02:34:40,920 --> 02:34:42,680
Speaker 12: tower in the middle of the power line.

2774
02:34:42,680 --> 02:34:42,880
Speaker 16: Cut.

2775
02:34:43,560 --> 02:34:47,400
Speaker 12: Wow, that smoke is thick. That's a fire. That is

2776
02:34:47,480 --> 02:34:49,480
Speaker 12: a decent fire. You can I can see the orange

2777
02:34:49,520 --> 02:34:52,600
Speaker 12: flame now. As the few police officers stationed at the

2778
02:34:52,600 --> 02:34:55,920
Speaker 12: North Gate were forced to fall back under pressure, force

2779
02:34:56,000 --> 02:34:59,279
Speaker 12: defenders leveled months of their work within a few minutes.

2780
02:35:00,040 --> 02:35:03,000
Speaker 12: To quote the scenes dot no blogs communicate quote. This

2781
02:35:03,360 --> 02:35:07,920
Speaker 12: act of mass collective sabotage was done methodically and without anxiety.

2782
02:35:08,560 --> 02:35:12,440
Speaker 12: The crowd destroyed all of their equipment with ease and confidence.

2783
02:35:12,959 --> 02:35:18,480
Speaker 15: So the excavator there was a utility train vehicle, which

2784
02:35:18,560 --> 02:35:21,000
Speaker 15: is what the police have been using to sort of

2785
02:35:21,640 --> 02:35:25,320
Speaker 15: move in and around the woods, and sort of motorized

2786
02:35:25,400 --> 02:35:26,640
Speaker 15: move in and around the woods.

2787
02:35:27,200 --> 02:35:28,959
Speaker 14: And then the.

2788
02:35:30,440 --> 02:35:35,920
Speaker 15: Office space and the storage space. We're all torched. I

2789
02:35:36,000 --> 02:35:38,120
Speaker 15: think that that comprised like everything that.

2790
02:35:38,240 --> 02:35:42,280
Speaker 12: Was over there, and then the police surveillance tower, which

2791
02:35:42,280 --> 02:35:43,680
Speaker 12: has been taken down a few times.

2792
02:35:43,680 --> 02:35:45,960
Speaker 15: Surveillance towers in that area, they have this tendency to

2793
02:35:46,040 --> 02:35:46,440
Speaker 15: fall over.

2794
02:35:47,200 --> 02:35:50,279
Speaker 12: The fire has gotten a lot lot bigger. Police scanner

2795
02:35:50,280 --> 02:35:54,160
Speaker 12: audio is saying officer needs help, calling for all available

2796
02:35:54,240 --> 02:35:56,080
Speaker 12: units to converge on the spot.

2797
02:35:56,240 --> 02:35:56,400
Speaker 16: Wow.

2798
02:35:56,400 --> 02:35:57,960
Speaker 5: Ok, the fire is getting so much brighter.

2799
02:35:58,760 --> 02:36:02,040
Speaker 12: Smoke is incredibly It looks like some people are starting

2800
02:36:02,080 --> 02:36:03,720
Speaker 12: to move out of the area back into the woods.

2801
02:36:04,320 --> 02:36:05,480
Speaker 15: But wow, that is a.

2802
02:36:07,240 --> 02:36:10,200
Speaker 12: Huge fire. There was at least two separate things lit

2803
02:36:10,280 --> 02:36:13,000
Speaker 12: on fire. There were, in fact more than two things

2804
02:36:13,120 --> 02:36:15,920
Speaker 12: on fire. Looks like crowd is going to be starting

2805
02:36:15,920 --> 02:36:18,240
Speaker 12: to move because a lot of police is about to

2806
02:36:18,280 --> 02:36:20,480
Speaker 12: show up. I'm sure what the response will be for

2807
02:36:20,680 --> 02:36:23,760
Speaker 12: people at the music festival or at a Wolani People's

2808
02:36:23,760 --> 02:36:25,480
Speaker 12: park who are camping out for the Week of Action.

2809
02:36:26,240 --> 02:36:29,720
Speaker 12: But this is a pretty pretty big action for Week

2810
02:36:29,760 --> 02:36:33,640
Speaker 12: of Action Day two. Wow, this smoke plume is massive.

2811
02:36:37,800 --> 02:36:41,240
Speaker 12: While the action itself was a success, the notion of

2812
02:36:41,320 --> 02:36:45,320
Speaker 12: an overall one sided victory was about to come crashing down.

2813
02:36:45,720 --> 02:36:48,760
Speaker 12: A whole bunch of sirens just flew by about a

2814
02:36:48,800 --> 02:36:52,040
Speaker 12: dozen cop cars, Lots of cop cars by the music

2815
02:36:52,080 --> 02:36:55,280
Speaker 12: festival entrants as well by the RC field. Looks like

2816
02:36:55,360 --> 02:36:59,400
Speaker 12: the cop cars are converging at the festival, not at

2817
02:36:59,680 --> 02:37:03,560
Speaker 12: the fire here. Okay, back at the music festival. As

2818
02:37:03,640 --> 02:37:08,240
Speaker 12: you can hear, it is it is, It is still ongoing.

2819
02:37:08,280 --> 02:37:11,080
Speaker 12: There's still hundreds of people, probably like five hundred people

2820
02:37:11,120 --> 02:37:14,000
Speaker 12: gathered here at the music festival. You can see smoke

2821
02:37:14,080 --> 02:37:18,000
Speaker 12: in the air from this vantage point, from the spot

2822
02:37:18,160 --> 02:37:22,600
Speaker 12: by the power line cut where those two fires took place.

2823
02:37:23,520 --> 02:37:26,160
Speaker 12: One indication that this night was far from over was

2824
02:37:26,240 --> 02:37:29,680
Speaker 12: that the police helicopter seemed to be moving toward the festival.

2825
02:37:30,160 --> 02:37:31,359
Speaker 5: The chopper has moved.

2826
02:37:31,480 --> 02:37:34,120
Speaker 12: From being the power line cut to the music festival

2827
02:37:34,200 --> 02:37:37,600
Speaker 12: and Wailani people's spark vibe seems to be pretty chill

2828
02:37:37,680 --> 02:37:39,280
Speaker 12: on the ground here. I'm not sure how many people

2829
02:37:39,360 --> 02:37:42,720
Speaker 12: that are present know what's going on, but the chopper

2830
02:37:42,800 --> 02:37:46,400
Speaker 12: is still stationed above the entrance to the festival, so

2831
02:37:46,480 --> 02:37:49,520
Speaker 12: I think they're they're looking to see if the group

2832
02:37:49,560 --> 02:37:51,440
Speaker 12: that march is going to march back the same direction,

2833
02:37:51,760 --> 02:37:55,400
Speaker 12: which I don't think they will, but that is what's

2834
02:37:55,440 --> 02:37:58,680
Speaker 12: currently going on. People still still seem to be coming

2835
02:37:58,840 --> 02:38:02,720
Speaker 12: like to and from the fast. Sure enough, within minutes,

2836
02:38:03,120 --> 02:38:06,920
Speaker 12: an increasingly large number of police started to stage by

2837
02:38:07,000 --> 02:38:10,560
Speaker 12: the entrance to the RC Field. Doesn't the police cars

2838
02:38:10,560 --> 02:38:12,440
Speaker 12: are now stationed outside the entrance to the RC field

2839
02:38:12,440 --> 02:38:15,200
Speaker 12: where the music festival is taking place. There's a lot

2840
02:38:15,240 --> 02:38:18,520
Speaker 12: of police here, some with rifles. They're getting their zip

2841
02:38:18,560 --> 02:38:22,240
Speaker 12: tie cuffs ready. They've not entered the festival area yet,

2842
02:38:22,520 --> 02:38:24,760
Speaker 12: but I got word from somebody that they have entered

2843
02:38:24,840 --> 02:38:28,880
Speaker 12: the Wolaani People's Park parking lot and it looks like

2844
02:38:29,320 --> 02:38:33,800
Speaker 12: movement is to be expected very soon. At around six

2845
02:38:33,959 --> 02:38:37,080
Speaker 12: thirty pm, police began to raid the South River Music

2846
02:38:37,160 --> 02:38:40,119
Speaker 12: Festival and started what I think is accurately described as

2847
02:38:40,440 --> 02:38:44,040
Speaker 12: the police's own counter protest to the events that transpired

2848
02:38:44,160 --> 02:38:44,879
Speaker 12: the past hour.

2849
02:38:45,520 --> 02:38:49,480
Speaker 15: So when the police came running up onto the tarmac

2850
02:38:49,480 --> 02:38:51,440
Speaker 15: at RC Field where the bouncy castle was, of course

2851
02:38:51,680 --> 02:38:55,440
Speaker 15: they had to point a rifle at the bouncy castle.

2852
02:38:55,920 --> 02:38:57,760
Speaker 15: And if that doesn't show that police are not here

2853
02:38:57,840 --> 02:38:59,720
Speaker 15: to have fun and have joy, I don't know what

2854
02:39:00,120 --> 02:39:02,720
Speaker 15: what is. I don't know if anyone was in it

2855
02:39:02,800 --> 02:39:05,200
Speaker 15: at the time, I don't think so. I think they

2856
02:39:05,240 --> 02:39:08,960
Speaker 15: were literally just pointing a gun at an empty bouncy

2857
02:39:09,280 --> 02:39:14,640
Speaker 15: castle which they have they destroyed, and I think we

2858
02:39:14,800 --> 02:39:16,520
Speaker 15: have to take a moment to mourn that.

2859
02:39:17,160 --> 02:39:20,520
Speaker 12: Lots of police running into the music festival. They're rowing

2860
02:39:20,560 --> 02:39:25,880
Speaker 12: someone down, chasing down a few people, Cops approaching for

2861
02:39:25,959 --> 02:39:30,440
Speaker 12: multiple sides. Instead of immediately trying to confront the hundreds

2862
02:39:30,480 --> 02:39:34,480
Speaker 12: of music festival attendees head on, the still extremely outnumbered

2863
02:39:34,520 --> 02:39:37,720
Speaker 12: cops ran to the opposite side of the music festival

2864
02:39:37,800 --> 02:39:43,040
Speaker 12: and started to indiscriminately go after isolated stragglers. People running

2865
02:39:43,080 --> 02:39:51,240
Speaker 12: into the woods, chase by police. Someone's tackled, no one

2866
02:39:51,320 --> 02:39:59,680
Speaker 12: early around it to arrest someone else being arrested. One, two, three,

2867
02:40:00,840 --> 02:40:05,240
Speaker 12: four or five six people currently arrested that I can see,

2868
02:40:06,640 --> 02:40:07,560
Speaker 12: or at least being detained.

2869
02:40:08,879 --> 02:40:10,560
Speaker 15: Looks like an NLG person's on the ground.

2870
02:40:11,600 --> 02:40:15,199
Speaker 12: Eventually the concertgoers realized what was happening, and a little

2871
02:40:15,240 --> 02:40:18,119
Speaker 12: over one hundred people mobilized to pressure the cops out

2872
02:40:18,160 --> 02:40:21,200
Speaker 12: of the field. People from the music festival are now

2873
02:40:22,160 --> 02:40:27,000
Speaker 12: running behind the police that have rushed into the rc field,

2874
02:40:29,520 --> 02:40:31,080
Speaker 12: cops being flanked by hundreds of people.

2875
02:40:32,640 --> 02:40:35,800
Speaker 15: So the first thing that happened was a few officers

2876
02:40:35,920 --> 02:40:39,560
Speaker 15: entered the RC field, which is where the music festival

2877
02:40:39,640 --> 02:40:42,800
Speaker 15: was happening, and made a few quick arrests. Yeah, like

2878
02:40:42,920 --> 02:40:44,959
Speaker 15: five or six, I would say, And I would assume,

2879
02:40:45,240 --> 02:40:49,680
Speaker 15: seeing like the crowd and realizing that a small force

2880
02:40:49,760 --> 02:40:52,840
Speaker 15: of officers is easily overwhelmed, kind of pulled back with

2881
02:40:52,920 --> 02:40:56,360
Speaker 15: their arrests. And then just after that, over in Wheelani

2882
02:40:56,440 --> 02:40:58,879
Speaker 15: People's Park, that's when the cab came in with their

2883
02:40:58,879 --> 02:41:01,920
Speaker 15: SWAT teams. There was a group that was meeting in

2884
02:41:02,040 --> 02:41:06,000
Speaker 15: the gazebo and they report like dozens of police officers

2885
02:41:06,400 --> 02:41:10,480
Speaker 15: running by. One of them stood up to record and

2886
02:41:11,080 --> 02:41:13,480
Speaker 15: an officer with an ar fifteen yelled at them and

2887
02:41:13,560 --> 02:41:16,879
Speaker 15: told them to sit the fuck back down, and they did.

2888
02:41:17,000 --> 02:41:20,760
Speaker 15: They were allowed to finish their meeting, but they report

2889
02:41:20,840 --> 02:41:24,400
Speaker 15: this very surreal experience of just officers like flying by

2890
02:41:25,080 --> 02:41:28,920
Speaker 15: and also making arrest of individuals who were running. And

2891
02:41:29,000 --> 02:41:32,800
Speaker 15: then the third wave, I would say, came in on

2892
02:41:32,920 --> 02:41:36,760
Speaker 15: the back of a armored police vehicle with an L RAD.

2893
02:41:38,040 --> 02:41:42,040
Speaker 12: Good old dj L rad brings it brings back all

2894
02:41:42,080 --> 02:41:42,959
Speaker 12: the memories.

2895
02:41:42,760 --> 02:41:45,040
Speaker 15: And so from there they sort of launched into the forest,

2896
02:41:45,240 --> 02:41:46,039
Speaker 15: launching tear.

2897
02:41:45,920 --> 02:41:53,720
Speaker 12: Gas again also brings back all of the memories. Police

2898
02:41:53,760 --> 02:41:56,640
Speaker 12: are starting to come back into the music festival. Fireworks

2899
02:41:56,680 --> 02:41:58,800
Speaker 12: are happening in the woods.

2900
02:41:58,560 --> 02:41:59,320
Speaker 5: Near the living room.

2901
02:41:59,360 --> 02:41:59,800
Speaker 2: It looks like.

2902
02:42:01,920 --> 02:42:05,120
Speaker 12: The police that entered via the RCA field advanced up

2903
02:42:05,240 --> 02:42:07,440
Speaker 12: to join another group of cops who came in from

2904
02:42:07,560 --> 02:42:11,160
Speaker 12: Wollani People's Park and were already in the woods. What

2905
02:42:11,320 --> 02:42:14,840
Speaker 12: I first assumed were just fireworks were actually in exchange

2906
02:42:14,879 --> 02:42:18,400
Speaker 12: of munitions, with cops firing explosive tear gas canisters into

2907
02:42:18,440 --> 02:42:21,000
Speaker 12: the forest and people trying to hold the cops off

2908
02:42:21,080 --> 02:42:24,400
Speaker 12: with fireworks. Tear gas is in the woods.

2909
02:42:25,680 --> 02:42:27,560
Speaker 3: Fuck, it's hard.

2910
02:42:27,640 --> 02:42:30,360
Speaker 12: I can't get any I didn't I didn't bring my

2911
02:42:30,360 --> 02:42:33,560
Speaker 12: gas masks because this was a music festival. It's just

2912
02:42:34,320 --> 02:42:36,600
Speaker 12: the woods are completely caked and gas. Everyone who's inside

2913
02:42:37,240 --> 02:42:39,720
Speaker 12: I don't know how they're going to get out. Cops

2914
02:42:39,760 --> 02:42:41,720
Speaker 12: have the place surrounded. It's so gassed up in there.

2915
02:42:42,360 --> 02:42:43,440
Speaker 5: Police raided.

2916
02:42:44,120 --> 02:42:47,000
Speaker 12: They tear gased a section of the woods close to

2917
02:42:47,040 --> 02:42:50,039
Speaker 12: the RCA field, kind of blocking off the RCA field

2918
02:42:50,520 --> 02:42:53,960
Speaker 12: from from the Wallani People's Park parking lot and the

2919
02:42:54,000 --> 02:42:56,720
Speaker 12: Campsit's nearby, so you couldn't like really get away or

2920
02:42:56,800 --> 02:43:00,160
Speaker 12: run through that area because your breathing would stop. As

2921
02:43:00,240 --> 02:43:03,040
Speaker 12: mine temporarily did as I tried, as I tried to

2922
02:43:03,160 --> 02:43:07,240
Speaker 12: run through there, and then policer just took over this

2923
02:43:07,400 --> 02:43:11,560
Speaker 12: entire section of southeast Atlanta, just this entire section of

2924
02:43:12,160 --> 02:43:13,720
Speaker 12: the woods, all the intersections in.

2925
02:43:13,720 --> 02:43:18,520
Speaker 15: This area, except for the very small space that the

2926
02:43:18,640 --> 02:43:22,400
Speaker 15: music festival was still going on during this entire time.

2927
02:43:22,760 --> 02:43:24,800
Speaker 12: The section like right in front of the stage where

2928
02:43:24,840 --> 02:43:27,520
Speaker 12: people continued to have the music festival for the next

2929
02:43:27,560 --> 02:43:30,760
Speaker 12: few hours. As police were as like, I kid you not,

2930
02:43:30,959 --> 02:43:34,760
Speaker 12: Like over five hundred police officers were in this surrounding area.

2931
02:43:34,920 --> 02:43:37,560
Speaker 12: There was the most amount of police I've ever seen

2932
02:43:37,720 --> 02:43:39,360
Speaker 12: respond to anything ever.

2933
02:43:39,879 --> 02:43:41,080
Speaker 5: It was wild.

2934
02:43:42,080 --> 02:43:44,039
Speaker 2: I am currently heading out.

2935
02:43:44,040 --> 02:43:46,200
Speaker 12: I will try to loop back around to Blanna People's

2936
02:43:46,200 --> 02:43:47,600
Speaker 12: Park because there's just no way through it right now

2937
02:43:47,680 --> 02:43:48,400
Speaker 12: with all the tear gas.

2938
02:43:48,879 --> 02:43:51,160
Speaker 5: But a cop van has.

2939
02:43:51,080 --> 02:43:54,280
Speaker 12: Pulled into the rc Field music customal people. Some of

2940
02:43:54,320 --> 02:43:56,520
Speaker 12: them are study by the stage, others are kind of dispersing.

2941
02:43:57,400 --> 02:44:02,200
Speaker 12: Night's getting pretty hectic. Cops fully surrounding a lot of

2942
02:44:02,240 --> 02:44:06,440
Speaker 12: People's Park and the music festival on all sides. There

2943
02:44:06,480 --> 02:44:08,760
Speaker 12: was at least one individual of note who was witnessed

2944
02:44:08,800 --> 02:44:11,400
Speaker 12: to be at the music festival the entire time. During

2945
02:44:11,440 --> 02:44:13,880
Speaker 12: the direct action, and they were one of the very

2946
02:44:13,959 --> 02:44:18,800
Speaker 12: first arrests. Police chased this person down, tased and violently

2947
02:44:18,920 --> 02:44:21,480
Speaker 12: tackled them. Were you on the festival at that time.

2948
02:44:22,360 --> 02:44:25,920
Speaker 21: I was around the festival at that time. I even

2949
02:44:26,120 --> 02:44:31,680
Speaker 21: saw the police tackle someone at the festival and tackle

2950
02:44:31,760 --> 02:44:36,440
Speaker 21: and tase an Indigenous person at the festival. And initially

2951
02:44:36,760 --> 02:44:40,000
Speaker 21: the police officer Georgia State Patrol, and these are the

2952
02:44:40,040 --> 02:44:43,600
Speaker 21: folks that were responsible for killing Tortigita and making up

2953
02:44:43,600 --> 02:44:47,400
Speaker 21: a lie about it. They started running and there were

2954
02:44:47,520 --> 02:44:49,879
Speaker 21: three people in front of them. All three of those

2955
02:44:49,959 --> 02:44:53,760
Speaker 21: people started running, and then there were two white folks

2956
02:44:53,840 --> 02:44:56,880
Speaker 21: that veered off to the left and one Indigenous person

2957
02:44:56,920 --> 02:45:00,920
Speaker 21: that veered off to the right. Go figure, the Georgia

2958
02:45:00,959 --> 02:45:04,120
Speaker 21: State Patrol veered to the right and then tased and

2959
02:45:04,160 --> 02:45:09,120
Speaker 21: tackled the indigenous person. And then and there's the footage

2960
02:45:09,120 --> 02:45:12,240
Speaker 21: of this that may may not be released, uh, where

2961
02:45:13,400 --> 02:45:16,320
Speaker 21: I was trying to de escalate the situation because this

2962
02:45:16,480 --> 02:45:20,760
Speaker 21: police officer, with no grounds to attack this person, is

2963
02:45:21,040 --> 02:45:24,240
Speaker 21: choking them on the ground and then really just asking

2964
02:45:24,280 --> 02:45:26,520
Speaker 21: you like literally what are you doing?

2965
02:45:27,440 --> 02:45:29,240
Speaker 8: Like why are you doing?

2966
02:45:29,800 --> 02:45:32,000
Speaker 21: And then the persons that I didn't do anything, and

2967
02:45:32,160 --> 02:45:36,000
Speaker 21: then the uh Georgia State Patrol officer responded, well, you

2968
02:45:36,280 --> 02:45:40,880
Speaker 21: ran right, as if running when somebody with a gun

2969
02:45:41,680 --> 02:45:45,520
Speaker 21: chasing you is an admission of guilt of something. Uh

2970
02:45:45,879 --> 02:45:51,400
Speaker 21: So the response was nonsensical and stupid.

2971
02:45:52,160 --> 02:45:55,720
Speaker 15: So they they're tear gassing the forest and again, you know, uh,

2972
02:45:55,920 --> 02:46:01,280
Speaker 15: grabbing from reports anyone who who's who's running? Anyone who

2973
02:46:01,840 --> 02:46:06,160
Speaker 15: who you know rightfully runs from a police officer running

2974
02:46:06,200 --> 02:46:09,440
Speaker 15: at them with an AR fifteen, which you know, we've

2975
02:46:09,480 --> 02:46:12,640
Speaker 15: been around police all week, and like the instinct to run,

2976
02:46:13,240 --> 02:46:16,560
Speaker 15: you know, even even now is still pretty high.

2977
02:46:16,920 --> 02:46:16,960
Speaker 8: No.

2978
02:46:17,040 --> 02:46:21,080
Speaker 12: Absolutely, And if you've never been chased by police before,

2979
02:46:21,800 --> 02:46:24,840
Speaker 12: your first instinct isn't to like let them get you,

2980
02:46:26,000 --> 02:46:29,200
Speaker 12: like I've had police just charge at me for filming

2981
02:46:29,400 --> 02:46:33,120
Speaker 12: police brutality before. And yeah, you generally want to move away.

2982
02:46:33,520 --> 02:46:34,879
Speaker 12: It is your immediate reaction.

2983
02:46:35,360 --> 02:46:38,800
Speaker 15: Yeah, anyone running at you with a gun is caused

2984
02:46:38,840 --> 02:46:41,800
Speaker 15: for fear, and a police officer even more so. Okay,

2985
02:46:42,040 --> 02:46:43,520
Speaker 15: I am out of the area.

2986
02:46:43,760 --> 02:46:46,440
Speaker 12: Police have surrounded on basically every side of the Lone

2987
02:46:46,480 --> 02:46:49,080
Speaker 12: People's Park, the section of the four people are camping

2988
02:46:49,120 --> 02:46:53,039
Speaker 12: out of the music festival, all entrances and exits are stage,

2989
02:46:53,160 --> 02:46:56,160
Speaker 12: a whole bunch of intersections, this police stage. They're letting

2990
02:46:56,200 --> 02:46:58,200
Speaker 12: some people go, obviously they're arresting a whole bunch of

2991
02:46:58,400 --> 02:47:01,760
Speaker 12: other people. No clear indication on who their arresting or why.

2992
02:47:03,280 --> 02:47:04,440
Speaker 12: It's pretty chaotic right now.

2993
02:47:05,080 --> 02:47:06,760
Speaker 15: They put out this officer needs help.

2994
02:47:06,800 --> 02:47:06,959
Speaker 13: Call.

2995
02:47:07,120 --> 02:47:10,640
Speaker 15: That expanded beyond just APD, But the first thing they

2996
02:47:10,680 --> 02:47:15,480
Speaker 15: did was was calling every available APD officer. Fulton County

2997
02:47:15,959 --> 02:47:18,560
Speaker 15: Sheriff's Office joint to Cab County started to mount up,

2998
02:47:19,040 --> 02:47:22,040
Speaker 15: and then of course the Georgia State Patrol definitely had

2999
02:47:22,040 --> 02:47:26,320
Speaker 15: to get onto this action. So jurisdictionally wide or this

3000
02:47:26,520 --> 02:47:31,400
Speaker 15: multi jurisdiction wide force of police amassed on Key Road

3001
02:47:32,280 --> 02:47:35,000
Speaker 15: with the cab kind of coming in on the other side.

3002
02:47:35,600 --> 02:47:38,680
Speaker 12: I passed through at least five hundred individual police officers. Yeah,

3003
02:47:38,760 --> 02:47:41,920
Speaker 12: that like that would check out, because I walked a

3004
02:47:42,000 --> 02:47:46,240
Speaker 12: decent a decent, a decent ways. I passed by many

3005
02:47:46,280 --> 02:47:49,640
Speaker 12: an intersection with at least fifty to one hundred cops

3006
02:47:49,680 --> 02:47:50,920
Speaker 12: was stationed at like each intersection.

3007
02:47:51,320 --> 02:47:54,920
Speaker 15: Oh and we can't forget the Sandy Springs Police Department also,

3008
02:47:55,240 --> 02:47:57,520
Speaker 15: and its way down from outside the premier.

3009
02:47:57,400 --> 02:48:00,960
Speaker 12: Multiple swat teams there was like thinks read from Bearcats.

3010
02:48:01,280 --> 02:48:04,119
Speaker 12: After I evacuated the area, I was still in shock

3011
02:48:04,200 --> 02:48:07,760
Speaker 12: about how many police officers mobilized to raid the festival.

3012
02:48:08,480 --> 02:48:11,040
Speaker 12: This is the biggest police response I've seen to anything

3013
02:48:11,840 --> 02:48:14,920
Speaker 12: in Atlanta in the time that I've been here. This

3014
02:48:15,040 --> 02:48:16,800
Speaker 12: is bigger than the police responses to most of like

3015
02:48:17,080 --> 02:48:20,840
Speaker 12: Portland actions compared to Like twenty twenty. Massive, massive amount

3016
02:48:20,840 --> 02:48:24,920
Speaker 12: of cops from multiple agencies taking over a huge area

3017
02:48:25,480 --> 02:48:33,760
Speaker 12: of South Atlanta and de kep County. As the second

3018
02:48:33,840 --> 02:48:37,720
Speaker 12: wave of police charged in and detained several music festival attendees,

3019
02:48:38,320 --> 02:48:41,960
Speaker 12: panic spread throughout the crowd. Hundreds of people rushed to

3020
02:48:42,040 --> 02:48:45,600
Speaker 12: the exits in an attempt to evacuate. Police blocked exits

3021
02:48:45,720 --> 02:48:50,000
Speaker 12: and arrested, detained, or harassed and threatened those trying to leave.

3022
02:48:50,760 --> 02:48:54,600
Speaker 12: One concertgoer reported that they received death threats from an

3023
02:48:54,680 --> 02:49:04,800
Speaker 12: intruding officer quote you're going to get shot. I don't

3024
02:49:04,840 --> 02:49:06,800
Speaker 12: know how to put it, but you're gonna get shot

3025
02:49:06,879 --> 02:49:10,400
Speaker 12: with a bullet unquote. That same person who recorded that

3026
02:49:10,480 --> 02:49:14,000
Speaker 12: interaction also reported that she heard an officer with his

3027
02:49:14,240 --> 02:49:16,800
Speaker 12: side arm drawn in the living room say, quote, I

3028
02:49:16,959 --> 02:49:20,640
Speaker 12: swear to God, I will fucking kill you unquote. Some

3029
02:49:20,800 --> 02:49:24,000
Speaker 12: people opted for safety in numbers and decided they'd rather

3030
02:49:24,080 --> 02:49:26,879
Speaker 12: stay together as a group as opposed to the risk

3031
02:49:27,000 --> 02:49:29,760
Speaker 12: of trying to escape through the woods alone. That night,

3032
02:49:30,600 --> 02:49:33,400
Speaker 12: about one hundred and fifty people congregated in front of

3033
02:49:33,520 --> 02:49:37,200
Speaker 12: the festival stage, and musicians that stuck around continued to

3034
02:49:37,280 --> 02:49:37,959
Speaker 12: play music.

3035
02:49:38,400 --> 02:49:43,800
Speaker 15: So the music festival continues unhindered until dusk, and about

3036
02:49:43,920 --> 02:49:51,240
Speaker 15: then is when DJ l Rad comes up and officers

3037
02:49:51,280 --> 02:49:55,160
Speaker 15: get out and call over like five people from the crowd.

3038
02:49:55,600 --> 02:49:57,279
Speaker 15: And so at this point I think there's like somewhere

3039
02:49:57,360 --> 02:50:01,760
Speaker 15: between one hundred seventy five to one hundred people still

3040
02:50:01,800 --> 02:50:05,600
Speaker 15: at the music pest watching the music, and people are

3041
02:50:06,080 --> 02:50:08,520
Speaker 15: calling out from the stage like we have a legal

3042
02:50:08,600 --> 02:50:11,640
Speaker 15: right to be here, this is public property.

3043
02:50:12,120 --> 02:50:17,160
Speaker 12: We had We had dueling, dueling loud speakers trying to

3044
02:50:17,800 --> 02:50:21,440
Speaker 12: two people having a regular conversation across a field via

3045
02:50:21,720 --> 02:50:22,920
Speaker 12: opposing loud speakers.

3046
02:50:23,080 --> 02:50:24,879
Speaker 15: Ry Scott Pilgrim versus the world right like.

3047
02:50:26,560 --> 02:50:28,360
Speaker 12: You know, as the police are trying to shut down

3048
02:50:28,400 --> 02:50:31,840
Speaker 12: a concert, and there's like pulks screaming into the bike

3049
02:50:32,560 --> 02:50:35,320
Speaker 12: and police officers using they all read to scream back.

3050
02:50:35,920 --> 02:50:38,560
Speaker 15: It's just amazing I mean, the visuals of this whole

3051
02:50:38,640 --> 02:50:42,240
Speaker 15: day I think are kind of really easy to imagine,

3052
02:50:42,320 --> 02:50:43,240
Speaker 15: even if you're not there.

3053
02:50:43,440 --> 02:50:43,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3054
02:50:44,360 --> 02:50:47,720
Speaker 12: Roughly after two hours of hunting down and detaining stragglers

3055
02:50:47,760 --> 02:50:51,000
Speaker 12: from the festival, dozens of swat in riot gear with

3056
02:50:51,120 --> 02:50:55,200
Speaker 12: high end rifles and armored vehicles slowly moved in towards

3057
02:50:55,280 --> 02:50:59,280
Speaker 12: the stage. Police told festivalgoers that they had three minutes

3058
02:50:59,280 --> 02:51:03,360
Speaker 12: to leave the festival under threat of arrest for domestic terrorism,

3059
02:51:04,040 --> 02:51:08,880
Speaker 12: to which festivalgoers responded by shouting no. In front of

3060
02:51:08,920 --> 02:51:12,080
Speaker 12: the stage. The crowd linked arms enchanted, let us go

3061
02:51:12,240 --> 02:51:13,920
Speaker 12: home and we have children.

3062
02:51:14,879 --> 02:51:21,560
Speaker 8: Go WHOA.

3063
02:51:22,000 --> 02:51:24,959
Speaker 12: Apparently unable to mass arrest one hundred and fifty people

3064
02:51:25,080 --> 02:51:28,760
Speaker 12: for whatever reason, police called for five individuals from the

3065
02:51:28,800 --> 02:51:32,720
Speaker 12: festival to engage in a brief discussion. After this odd

3066
02:51:32,840 --> 02:51:37,120
Speaker 12: negotiation with a handful of random concert goers, festival attendees

3067
02:51:37,200 --> 02:51:39,520
Speaker 12: were told they had ten minutes to walk to their

3068
02:51:39,600 --> 02:51:43,439
Speaker 12: cars and go home or else be charged with domestic terrorism.

3069
02:51:43,920 --> 02:51:47,200
Speaker 15: About half the crowd has cars parked in the rc field,

3070
02:51:48,160 --> 02:51:50,680
Speaker 15: and the police allow them to go to their cars

3071
02:51:50,800 --> 02:51:54,880
Speaker 15: and leave, leaving like somewhere between you know, three dozen

3072
02:51:56,080 --> 02:51:59,600
Speaker 15: somewhere around three dozen people without cars still remaining at

3073
02:51:59,600 --> 02:52:04,440
Speaker 15: the FESTI and this whole time they're also chanting, we

3074
02:52:04,640 --> 02:52:07,720
Speaker 15: have kids, let us go, and like, it's this very

3075
02:52:07,760 --> 02:52:11,280
Speaker 15: big moment of solidarity that I've been told from like

3076
02:52:11,520 --> 02:52:14,480
Speaker 15: people who were there that you could tell that everybody

3077
02:52:14,600 --> 02:52:16,920
Speaker 15: was like really interested in keeping each other safe.

3078
02:52:17,320 --> 02:52:18,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was, It was.

3079
02:52:18,240 --> 02:52:20,240
Speaker 12: It was weird because police were definitely they were letting

3080
02:52:20,280 --> 02:52:22,760
Speaker 12: some people walk away and leave a place, some people

3081
02:52:22,840 --> 02:52:26,520
Speaker 12: drive away, arresting others not really with no clear indication

3082
02:52:26,600 --> 02:52:28,840
Speaker 12: for why they're letting some go and not not letting

3083
02:52:28,879 --> 02:52:32,720
Speaker 12: others go. But then this this crowd of people around

3084
02:52:32,760 --> 02:52:35,920
Speaker 12: the stage were eventually allowed to leave the music festival

3085
02:52:36,400 --> 02:52:39,160
Speaker 12: in big rent of vans. The police then id'd the

3086
02:52:39,680 --> 02:52:42,000
Speaker 12: people who rented the vans and were driving the vans,

3087
02:52:42,560 --> 02:52:46,560
Speaker 12: but but everyone was able to exit who stayed by

3088
02:52:47,120 --> 02:52:51,400
Speaker 12: the music festival. Around midnight, the Atlanta Police Department posted

3089
02:52:51,480 --> 02:52:55,400
Speaker 12: a press release saying that thirty five people have been detained,

3090
02:52:56,080 --> 02:52:59,320
Speaker 12: which was kind of weird language because everyone assumed that

3091
02:52:59,400 --> 02:53:01,760
Speaker 12: those who had been taken by police were all going

3092
02:53:01,800 --> 02:53:04,560
Speaker 12: to be arrested and charged. But then less than an

3093
02:53:04,560 --> 02:53:08,600
Speaker 12: hour later, twelve individuals were suddenly released from police custody

3094
02:53:08,959 --> 02:53:13,120
Speaker 12: back to Gresham Park. Since then, witnesses and lawyers have

3095
02:53:13,240 --> 02:53:16,880
Speaker 12: claimed that police separated out people with Atlanta addresses on

3096
02:53:17,000 --> 02:53:21,520
Speaker 12: their IDs and released those individuals, and then the remaining

3097
02:53:21,600 --> 02:53:24,320
Speaker 12: twenty three people, mostly with out of state IDs or

3098
02:53:24,440 --> 02:53:28,199
Speaker 12: a non Atlanta address, were arrested and charged with domestic

3099
02:53:28,360 --> 02:53:33,360
Speaker 12: terrorism to continue the outside agitator narrative, bringing the total

3100
02:53:33,440 --> 02:53:36,360
Speaker 12: number of people charged with domestic terrorism to forty two.

3101
02:53:37,800 --> 02:53:40,760
Speaker 12: Ever since Sunday night, there's been this effort from police

3102
02:53:40,879 --> 02:53:44,400
Speaker 12: and their media allies to frame these arrests as if

3103
02:53:44,480 --> 02:53:47,240
Speaker 12: they happened at the scene of the crime, alleging that

3104
02:53:47,440 --> 02:53:50,920
Speaker 12: the twenty three people arrested were themselves torching equipment or

3105
02:53:51,000 --> 02:53:55,160
Speaker 12: actively engaged in domestic terrorism. Yet all of the arrests

3106
02:53:55,240 --> 02:53:57,959
Speaker 12: took place almost a mile away at the music festival,

3107
02:53:58,120 --> 02:54:00,400
Speaker 12: and even further away in some cases, like in the

3108
02:54:00,480 --> 02:54:03,240
Speaker 12: parking lot, which is on the other side of the

3109
02:54:03,320 --> 02:54:06,160
Speaker 12: forest from the north gate. To quote an article in

3110
02:54:06,240 --> 02:54:09,520
Speaker 12: Truth Out by Candice Burned, quote, law enforcement failing to

3111
02:54:09,640 --> 02:54:14,120
Speaker 12: apprehend specific individuals at the site itself, indiscriminately targeted the

3112
02:54:14,240 --> 02:54:18,080
Speaker 12: music festival, pouring into the field, campgrounds and parking lot

3113
02:54:18,280 --> 02:54:22,280
Speaker 12: with weapons drawn, they issued commands, chased people down, and

3114
02:54:22,400 --> 02:54:27,160
Speaker 12: threatened to shoot and arrest festival attendees unquote. Still, major

3115
02:54:27,240 --> 02:54:30,600
Speaker 12: news outlets all but ignored the fact that all arrests

3116
02:54:30,600 --> 02:54:33,960
Speaker 12: occurred seemingly at random during a police raid of the

3117
02:54:34,080 --> 02:54:37,360
Speaker 12: nearby South River Music Festival, where people gathered to see

3118
02:54:37,760 --> 02:54:40,600
Speaker 12: Zack Fox Live, to jump in a bouncy castle and

3119
02:54:40,800 --> 02:54:44,320
Speaker 12: enjoy the outdoors. Many attendees had little to no idea

3120
02:54:44,400 --> 02:54:47,000
Speaker 12: of what had occurred at the copp City construction site.

3121
02:54:47,640 --> 02:54:50,039
Speaker 12: Those who got lucky were forced to walk through tier

3122
02:54:50,120 --> 02:54:53,039
Speaker 12: gas to get to their cars, while others were assaulted

3123
02:54:53,080 --> 02:54:56,520
Speaker 12: by police and charged with domestic terrorism, risking thirty five

3124
02:54:56,600 --> 02:55:00,520
Speaker 12: years in prison. Here's a clip from NBC's Today Show.

3125
02:55:00,640 --> 02:55:03,600
Speaker 27: Got breaking news out of Atlanta. Over nine dozens arrested

3126
02:55:03,680 --> 02:55:07,080
Speaker 27: after what's being described as a coordinated criminal attack. It

3127
02:55:07,160 --> 02:55:09,640
Speaker 27: happened at the future site of a police training center.

3128
02:55:09,680 --> 02:55:11,960
Speaker 27: And this is Blaine Alexander's on the story for US

3129
02:55:12,000 --> 02:55:12,800
Speaker 27: Blaine Good Morning.

3130
02:55:13,480 --> 02:55:17,440
Speaker 28: Officials say protesters burned construction vehicles and a trailer and

3131
02:55:17,560 --> 02:55:20,360
Speaker 28: set off fireworks toward officers stationed nearby.

3132
02:55:20,959 --> 02:55:22,760
Speaker 21: This wasn't about a public safety training center.

3133
02:55:22,840 --> 02:55:25,200
Speaker 5: This was about anarchy and this was about the attempt

3134
02:55:25,240 --> 02:55:25,959
Speaker 5: to destabilize.

3135
02:55:26,080 --> 02:55:29,520
Speaker 28: Police point to a group of what they call outside agitators,

3136
02:55:29,720 --> 02:55:32,840
Speaker 28: saying they left an event nearby, changed into black clothing,

3137
02:55:33,040 --> 02:55:37,760
Speaker 28: and mounted a coordinated attack on construction equipment and police officers.

3138
02:55:38,360 --> 02:55:41,040
Speaker 12: To quote a statement from the Sonic Defense Committee. Quote,

3139
02:55:41,640 --> 02:55:45,720
Speaker 12: the indiscriminate brutalization and arrest of festivalgoers suggests that law

3140
02:55:45,800 --> 02:55:48,200
Speaker 12: enforcement agencies will go to great lengths to paint the

3141
02:55:48,240 --> 02:55:50,520
Speaker 12: movement to stop Coop City and Defend the Atlanta Forest

3142
02:55:50,879 --> 02:55:54,760
Speaker 12: as a criminal organization. It is in fact a broad,

3143
02:55:54,959 --> 02:56:01,119
Speaker 12: decentralized movement with no ideological or organizational unity of shared goal.

3144
02:56:01,800 --> 02:56:04,120
Speaker 12: They believe that the movement is made up of bad

3145
02:56:04,240 --> 02:56:09,000
Speaker 12: actors who betray otherwise peaceful protesters, but the movement is

3146
02:56:09,080 --> 02:56:13,040
Speaker 12: not committed to any particular tactic, instead accepting the diversity

3147
02:56:13,080 --> 02:56:16,240
Speaker 12: of approaches to stop the project. The police claim that

3148
02:56:16,440 --> 02:56:19,080
Speaker 12: the movement is not made up of any Atlantans, while

3149
02:56:19,400 --> 02:56:23,879
Speaker 12: Atlanta University Center, students, local clergy, faith leaders, small businesses,

3150
02:56:24,000 --> 02:56:28,480
Speaker 12: and dozens of locally famous artists and musicians organize themselves

3151
02:56:28,560 --> 02:56:32,640
Speaker 12: within the movement. The police's false narrative and heavy handed

3152
02:56:32,680 --> 02:56:35,160
Speaker 12: approach to dealing with the opposition to the COP City

3153
02:56:35,240 --> 02:56:39,280
Speaker 12: project is slowly starting to enclose them in. As the

3154
02:56:39,360 --> 02:56:42,800
Speaker 12: movement grows and city and state officials refuse to see

3155
02:56:42,840 --> 02:56:45,440
Speaker 12: the reality of what they are dealing with, their own

3156
02:56:45,480 --> 02:56:49,080
Speaker 12: authority is being brought into question. If they are not careful,

3157
02:56:49,240 --> 02:56:51,920
Speaker 12: the stakes of the movement will soon exceed the bounds

3158
02:56:52,000 --> 02:56:55,959
Speaker 12: of the forest and COP City. In fact, that process

3159
02:56:56,200 --> 02:56:57,640
Speaker 12: may already have begun.

3160
02:56:58,360 --> 02:57:01,600
Speaker 15: I think to talk about what happened, we we kind

3161
02:57:01,600 --> 02:57:04,560
Speaker 15: of do have to go back to put it in context,

3162
02:57:05,600 --> 02:57:09,680
Speaker 15: and going back to January, that was the end of

3163
02:57:09,800 --> 02:57:15,000
Speaker 15: the occupation or the you know, continuous encampments in Wilani

3164
02:57:17,360 --> 02:57:21,520
Speaker 15: and then flash, uh fast forward to to late January.

3165
02:57:21,600 --> 02:57:24,840
Speaker 15: They get the LDP and so all of these people

3166
02:57:24,959 --> 02:57:28,680
Speaker 15: who have been protecting the forest for so long are

3167
02:57:28,760 --> 02:57:32,720
Speaker 15: now watching construction equipment roll in and they're watching clear

3168
02:57:32,800 --> 02:57:38,160
Speaker 15: cutting and they can't do anything about it. And you

3169
02:57:38,280 --> 02:57:42,000
Speaker 15: had that action, uh just after Tortigita's death in January,

3170
02:57:42,320 --> 02:57:46,920
Speaker 15: which was a very targeted you know, only two funders

3171
02:57:46,959 --> 02:57:50,240
Speaker 15: and other supporters of cop City and you know, maybe

3172
02:57:50,280 --> 02:57:53,640
Speaker 15: a random police vehicle. But it wasn't really like this,

3173
02:57:54,000 --> 02:57:57,519
Speaker 15: this letting of energy it was a very like specific

3174
02:57:58,040 --> 02:58:00,600
Speaker 15: sort of purpose. And so you have this like build

3175
02:58:00,720 --> 02:58:03,880
Speaker 15: up of energy that I think is really important to

3176
02:58:04,720 --> 02:58:08,120
Speaker 15: keep in mind with what is about to happen in

3177
02:58:08,200 --> 02:58:11,920
Speaker 15: this story. And they so they can't do anything, and

3178
02:58:12,000 --> 02:58:17,120
Speaker 15: then you have Saturday where you see this massive people

3179
02:58:17,640 --> 02:58:22,279
Speaker 15: return to the forest, and I think it's almost unavoidable

3180
02:58:22,920 --> 02:58:26,440
Speaker 15: in retrospect to look at that and for them not

3181
02:58:26,600 --> 02:58:29,400
Speaker 15: to have said, what can we do now that we

3182
02:58:29,480 --> 02:58:35,360
Speaker 15: couldn't do before? So they gather and they do what

3183
02:58:35,440 --> 02:58:39,480
Speaker 15: they couldn't do before they head over to the construction site.

3184
02:58:40,080 --> 02:58:42,080
Speaker 12: There had not been an action like this in the

3185
02:58:42,120 --> 02:58:46,120
Speaker 12: woods for a long time. Bulldozers and equipment had not

3186
02:58:46,200 --> 02:58:49,080
Speaker 12: been damaged in quite a while. But on Sunday people

3187
02:58:49,120 --> 02:58:51,560
Speaker 12: were able to use the safety in numbers that comes

3188
02:58:51,600 --> 02:58:54,240
Speaker 12: with a week of action to feel more empowered to

3189
02:58:54,360 --> 02:58:58,119
Speaker 12: take direct action against the actual machinery that is destroying

3190
02:58:58,160 --> 02:59:01,680
Speaker 12: the forest and building cop City. Sunday's action can be

3191
02:59:01,760 --> 02:59:04,560
Speaker 12: seen as a demonstration of the pent up righteous anger

3192
02:59:04,879 --> 02:59:09,119
Speaker 12: from watching the slow destruction of the forest. Participants view

3193
02:59:09,200 --> 02:59:12,800
Speaker 12: what happened as a justified strike against the active destruction

3194
02:59:12,920 --> 02:59:16,000
Speaker 12: of the forest, a strike back made an anger after

3195
02:59:16,120 --> 02:59:19,080
Speaker 12: watching the Atlanta Police Foundation make steady progress over the

3196
02:59:19,160 --> 02:59:20,520
Speaker 12: course of the past few months.

3197
02:59:21,240 --> 02:59:24,680
Speaker 15: The day before, there was this chant that was taken

3198
02:59:24,760 --> 02:59:26,280
Speaker 15: up by the entire crowd, and I think we talked

3199
02:59:26,280 --> 02:59:27,120
Speaker 15: about this and.

3200
02:59:28,879 --> 02:59:29,279
Speaker 4: Earlier.

3201
02:59:30,800 --> 02:59:33,280
Speaker 15: If you build it, we will burn it. And that

3202
02:59:33,560 --> 02:59:36,199
Speaker 15: was something that if you looked all throughout the crowd,

3203
02:59:36,360 --> 02:59:41,240
Speaker 15: like they were chanting everybody, everybody, like not just people

3204
02:59:41,320 --> 02:59:44,760
Speaker 15: wearing camera or black block, like a thousand people, everybody. Yeah,

3205
02:59:44,760 --> 02:59:47,160
Speaker 15: a thousand people marching from Gresham Park. And I think

3206
02:59:47,200 --> 02:59:50,720
Speaker 15: that this is that promise come true.

3207
02:59:51,480 --> 02:59:54,400
Speaker 12: Sunday's action was itself a pretty unique moment in the

3208
02:59:54,440 --> 02:59:59,040
Speaker 12: recent history of environmental and anti police struggles. Watching hundreds

3209
02:59:59,080 --> 03:00:02,199
Speaker 12: of people go on the offensive to participate in a mass,

3210
03:00:02,280 --> 03:00:05,960
Speaker 12: coordinated sabotage in defense of both the forest and targets

3211
03:00:05,959 --> 03:00:09,440
Speaker 12: of police of isolence felt like an unprecedented moment in

3212
03:00:09,560 --> 03:00:13,600
Speaker 12: our modern paradigm of resistance in the United States. But

3213
03:00:13,840 --> 03:00:16,480
Speaker 12: the raid on the music festival on March fifth was

3214
03:00:16,520 --> 03:00:19,560
Speaker 12: also just the start of an unparalleled wave of police

3215
03:00:19,600 --> 03:00:23,000
Speaker 12: repression during this week of action, which we will cover

3216
03:00:23,240 --> 03:00:26,760
Speaker 12: in the next episode, but throughout the whole week, the

3217
03:00:26,840 --> 03:00:31,360
Speaker 12: assurance that Copcity will never be built never faltered, as

3218
03:00:31,440 --> 03:00:34,680
Speaker 12: demonstrated by common chance, such as I believe that we

3219
03:00:34,800 --> 03:00:38,600
Speaker 12: will win. So I'm going to end this episode with

3220
03:00:38,800 --> 03:00:42,360
Speaker 12: the final chant from the Saturday Gresham Park rally right

3221
03:00:42,440 --> 03:00:47,080
Speaker 12: before a thousand people marched to the Wallani Forest in Atlanta.

3222
03:00:47,160 --> 03:00:47,959
Speaker 5: We always in.

3223
03:00:48,120 --> 03:00:49,200
Speaker 29: With the asslogan.

3224
03:00:49,760 --> 03:00:52,000
Speaker 24: We're with the words of the love or.

3225
03:00:51,959 --> 03:00:58,200
Speaker 29: Assata Spoor because we have a tuning. There's been so

3226
03:00:58,440 --> 03:01:04,080
Speaker 29: much bliss built here. Repeat that to me, our duty

3227
03:01:04,160 --> 03:01:16,080
Speaker 29: to fight for our freedom to each other each other.

3228
03:01:19,640 --> 03:01:22,240
Speaker 29: I'm not gonna lose, but on change.

3229
03:01:24,720 --> 03:01:35,360
Speaker 30: I'm not gonna loose, Bonchin, I'm nothnna those but on Chinee.

3230
03:01:37,560 --> 03:01:50,199
Speaker 31: Say Music Festival audio courtesy of Unicorn Riot.

3231
03:01:50,840 --> 03:01:51,000
Speaker 16: Hey.

3232
03:01:51,160 --> 03:01:54,240
Speaker 1: We'll be back Monday, with more episodes every week from

3233
03:01:54,280 --> 03:01:55,959
Speaker 1: now until the heat death of the Universe.

3234
03:01:56,560 --> 03:01:58,920
Speaker 15: It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

3235
03:01:59,160 --> 03:02:01,800
Speaker 12: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3236
03:02:01,879 --> 03:02:05,000
Speaker 12: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3237
03:02:05,000 --> 03:02:07,520
Speaker 12: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

3238
03:02:07,959 --> 03:02:10,080
Speaker 10: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated

3239
03:02:10,160 --> 03:02:14,160
Speaker 10: monthly at Coolzonmedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening,