1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. 5 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 2: my name is Nol. 7 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our 8 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,959 Speaker 3: super producer Paul. Mission control decands. Most importantly, you are 9 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 3: you are here, and that makes this the stuff they 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 3: don't want you to know. Weirdly enough, this episode is 11 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 3: very baseball centric at the beginning. But look, if you 12 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 3: don't love baseball, if you're not a baseball nut like 13 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 3: our pal Max Williams, never fear. Don't let that dissuade you. Because, 14 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 3: fellow conspiracy realists, you may recall in an earlier part 15 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 3: of our weekly Strange News segment, Matt, you brought a 16 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 3: pretty disturbing story about some revelations related to baseball and 17 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 3: long term health consequences, well some possibilities. 18 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 2: Right, there's no We came away from that episode with 19 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 2: the understanding that there is no proof that there's a 20 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 2: link between what we're going to talk about today and 21 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 2: that specific type of brain cancer. 22 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 3: But right. 23 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 2: It doesn't look good. 24 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like playing It's like playing clue, you know, 25 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 3: in the board game Clue, where you have to have 26 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 3: three cards so you can name the person, the weapon, 27 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,199 Speaker 3: and the place. Yeah, they are about two cards in here. 28 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 3: I would say two and a half. And that's just 29 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 3: being diplomatic. 30 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 4: Two toes down perhaps, yeah, not ten toes. 31 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 2: But what we found in the research, like the full 32 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 2: research for this episode, is that it goes way beyond baseball. 33 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 3: Yes, the implications are far past the stadium. Here are 34 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 3: the facts. First, astro turf. It's a cool name. It 35 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 3: sounds a vaguely space related. But what is this stuff? 36 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 3: It might be interesting for a lot of us listening 37 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 3: today to learn that AstroTurf is a brand name. It 38 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 3: is one example of a thing that exists under multiple manufacturers. Right, 39 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 3: Astroturf's actually a proprietary eponym. We're talking about this a 40 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 3: little bit off air. We were naming a couple. Paul 41 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 3: shouted out popsicle from our brain Stuff days And what 42 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 3: is a proprietary eponym? 43 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's basically it's a brand. Essentially, it's 44 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 4: the name of a product that ends up being so 45 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 4: ubiquitously known that it kind of becomes the stand in 46 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 4: for all other you know, sort of I guess you 47 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 4: could call them imitators. But it really does become sort 48 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 4: of a case of parallel thinking where the product is 49 00:02:55,040 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 4: so ubiquitous that probably it was almost invented simultaneous by 50 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 4: multiple parties, but the one with the name that stuck 51 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 4: is the one that kind of, you know, became the one, 52 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 4: and then everyone else is sort of refers to the 53 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 4: other ones by that same name, like xerox, for example, 54 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 4: which is just you know, photo copying, but it is 55 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 4: that people will to say, run a xerox of this, 56 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 4: or even google googling it. 57 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 3: Google it. 58 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 4: Or coke in some places just refers to a carbonated drink. 59 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 2: You know, I need a band aid. 60 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what. That's a great example. I will I 61 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 3: will see. I will share one example, an old war 62 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 3: story that Matt and Nola you guys have already heard. 63 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 2: Uh. 64 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 3: I first ran into proprietary eponyms while working on a 65 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 3: show called Stuff of Genius, a kids show about inventors. 66 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 3: Turns out, you, yeah, that's right. I forgot. Gosh, how 67 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 3: many shows have we worked on together, Matt? 68 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 4: A lot, a. 69 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 3: Lot, Yeah, so so Matt was doing the hard work 70 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 3: on stuff genius, and I was also there, and the 71 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 3: Tyler and Tyler Klaying Yes, Tyler Klayg a good friend 72 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 3: of the show who actually he's kind of a Jerry. 73 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 3: He doesn't appear on air that often. But yeah, so 74 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 3: I first at least learned about proprietary eponyms when I 75 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 3: learned that the makers of Frisbee are pretty litigious, a 76 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 3: lot less fun, a lot less fun than maybe the 77 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 3: image would imply. If it is not a Frisbee brand Frisbee, 78 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 3: it can only be called a flying disc and they 79 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 3: will find you. 80 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 2: So. 81 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 3: AstroTurf, then, is the most popular example the street name 82 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 3: for a product, a kind of product, a genre of 83 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 3: product that exists all over the Western world. It's weird 84 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 3: because we can get in the origin story of inventions. 85 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 3: It can be kind of tough to suss out who 86 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 3: made what because to your point, Oh, there's so much 87 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 3: parallel thinking that can occur. People like good inventors identify 88 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 3: a problem and then try to reverse engineer right work 89 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,799 Speaker 3: back from the problem towards the solution. So it shouldn't 90 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 3: surprise us that there there are a couple of foggy 91 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 3: parts about the AstroTurf or synthetic turf origin story, but 92 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 3: we do know it was not originally named AstroTurf. 93 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 2: No, it was called kim Grass. Kim Yum. That just 94 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 2: sounds great. Give me what I want to frolic on 95 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 2: some kim grass sounds. 96 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 3: That was their original motto too, right, Matt kim Grass Yum. 97 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I think so. 98 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, So we got these, uh, we got these. One 99 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 3: story goes there are these two dudes, James im Faria 100 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 3: and Robert T. Wright. They worked out of a place 101 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 3: called kim chem strand chem Grass. Get it. 102 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, well it has to do with synthetic fibers, right, 103 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 2: and creating synthetic fibers became a big deal back in 104 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: the sixties. 105 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh my gosh, did so much for workouts, 106 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 3: and synthetics fibers still play a big role, I guess 107 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 3: in gym based internet selfies, right. 108 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, way more things than you could possibly imagine. 109 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 2: There are synthetic types of fibers that end up in 110 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 2: those products. 111 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 3: And they're tremendously useful and versatile. The issue is that 112 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 3: they're also in the grand scheme of things, a very 113 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:52,239 Speaker 3: new kind of endeavor for humans. Kim Strand may be 114 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 3: recognizable to some people. I don't know who. You're very 115 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:58,799 Speaker 3: plugged in if you already knew this, because we didn't. 116 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,239 Speaker 3: Kim Strand was a subsidiary of Monsanto, who is back. 117 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 3: Monsanto rides again in stuff they don't want you to know. 118 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 3: And they first put this stuff in a school in 119 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 3: Rhode Island back in the sixties. That was like their 120 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 3: test field. 121 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:17,559 Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty four. 122 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, and schools the ultimate cam testing fields. 123 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. But then in nineteen sixty six that's when 124 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 2: it ended up in Texas where why we know it 125 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 2: as astro turf. 126 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, and want a shout out David Cheney, who is 127 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 3: also often mentioned as the inventor of AstroTurf. Some other 128 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 3: manufacturers cite him. There's a Sports Illustrated article about him. 129 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 3: They say that he's the guy responsible for creating this stuff. 130 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 3: The way they put it, is responsible for indoor Major 131 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 3: League Baseball. Millions of welcome Matt's origin story aside, Matt, 132 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 3: You're absolutely right. The big moment, the real debut comes 133 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 3: in Houston, Texas, nineteen sixty six at the Astrodome. The 134 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 3: Astrodome at the time is cutting edge it's like that. 135 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 3: It's like the beginning of that Simpson's monorail episode. Everybody 136 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 3: wants to have an astrodome. It's an indoor stadium, you 137 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 3: know what I mean. Finally humanity has Humanity has conquered 138 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 3: the gods of weather and said, we don't care what 139 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 3: the environment's like. We're gonna play till the ninth inning. 140 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 2: Well, it's human engineering. It's beautiful human engineering at work. Right. 141 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 2: We need a way to have these baseball games, like 142 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 2: maybe in a pure way. It's pure baseball, right, you 143 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 2: don't got to worry about getting rained out, you don't 144 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 2: got to worry about super crazy hot days when you're 145 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 2: out there playing on the field. Let's do it indoors. 146 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 2: So like that's They solved a ton of problem by 147 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,839 Speaker 2: putting a dome on top of the stadium, but then 148 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 2: it created more problems. 149 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, like these things often do well. 150 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 2: And one of the major problems was they in order 151 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 2: to light that stadium right, like correctly, to get enough 152 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 2: light inside that dome, you had to have crazy strong 153 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 2: lights on the dome all over it. 154 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, and then they had to they actually had to 155 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 3: step some of that back and pint some of the 156 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 3: ceiling lighting area because the lights were too bright for 157 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 3: the players to see the balls coming down. 158 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 2: And well, yeah, imagine the sun is one point of 159 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 2: light in the sky, right and it may not be 160 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 2: directly above you while you're playing. Sometimes it is, but 161 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 2: even then it's one point of light. Now you've got 162 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 2: like dozens. 163 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 3: Now you're in the spotlight no matter where you look. 164 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 3: And they also had a problem with the grass. This 165 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 3: thing that I love that you point out the architecture 166 00:09:55,800 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 3: reminds me of my favorite architecture quote, which is, gosh, 167 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 3: I can't remember who said it, but someone once described 168 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 3: architecture's frozen poetry. Ooh yeah, And I think that's a 169 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 3: really beautiful way to think about it. And things like 170 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 3: the stadium, these massive marvels of human engineering. They really are. 171 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 3: There is poetry to them. But there's also a really 172 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 3: tough landscaping situation, which is nuts, but it makes sense 173 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 3: because they had such a hard time keeping the grass 174 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 3: growing and this enormous indoor cutting edge stadium that by 175 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 3: the second half of the nineteen sixty five baseball season 176 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 3: they literally said, Paul, beat me here. They said, get 177 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 3: We're just gonna have to paint the dead grass green 178 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 3: because we can't grow it. And of course, if you 179 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 3: have ever played baseball, you know the grass the field 180 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 3: itself is a big part of how you play. The 181 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 3: game's right of dreams apparently. 182 00:10:59,600 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 183 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 4: And chemicals. 184 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, so they tried a new option. They tried several 185 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 3: different types of grass. None of it would take, so 186 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 3: they resurfaced the field with chem grass from your friends 187 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 3: at Kimstrand, the subsidiary of Monsanto Global chem Yeah, which 188 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 3: itself is probably a subsidiary of Illumination Global Unlimited. There's 189 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 3: a lot of questions still out there, right, So what 190 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 3: was kim grass? 191 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 4: Well, kim grass is essentially a carpet of fake grass. 192 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 4: You can transport it to like these roles, you know. 193 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,839 Speaker 4: So essentially it is a carpet of half inch thermoplastic 194 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 4: fibers that's attached to a rubber mat and then laid 195 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 4: on top of a base. In this case it would 196 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 4: be an asphalt base. Chemstrand was smart, you know, in 197 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,959 Speaker 4: their branding play here when they thought of this as 198 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 4: an opportunity to rename it based on this new use. 199 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 4: Because you know, we have the team obviously that named 200 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 4: the Astros and the stadium and all of that, but 201 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 4: also Astro just has that kind of thing of the 202 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 4: future vibe, right, So they rename the stuff from the 203 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 4: maybe more accurate and possibly ill advised named Kemgrass to 204 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 4: Astro Turf. 205 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 3: Get it. 206 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it makes a ton of sense from a 207 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 2: branding perspective, right, from a marketing perspective, from a company 208 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 2: that's like, oh, this is kind of working, guys, I 209 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 2: think we could probably do this again like a lot. 210 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 4: Let's create an association with a pre existing beloved brand. 211 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 2: No, right, guys, this is a moment in like history history. 212 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 2: So in the news this thing. People are talking about 213 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 2: this in the New York Times. Oh wow, brand new, 214 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 2: brand new turf going in and it's a stuff of 215 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 2: the future. Everyone look at this Astro too, which. 216 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 3: Is also I think, was it stuff from the future. 217 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 3: We we had another show, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. 218 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 2: Where by the way, Paul worked on stuff of genius. 219 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 2: I don't know if you guys, remember I. 220 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 4: Have a video editor. 221 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,719 Speaker 3: Did I get some reputation for not acknowledging people's work. 222 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 2: No, no, no, I just totally forget well. 223 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 3: Shout out to Paul. Yes, Paul is an absolute mastermind. 224 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 3: And Paul's Paul's parents, many many people, many people's parents 225 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 3: in the show today, as well as some of our 226 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 3: fellow conspiracy realists listening now, may have been alive when 227 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 3: this news hit, and it was nationwide, it was syndicated, 228 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 3: It was a big deal. It was very Jetsons, it's 229 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 3: very futuristic. Also, it's a way better name than Keem Grass. 230 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 3: You know what were their other mottos. Their first one 231 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 3: was young and then their second one was kim Grass 232 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 3: to pay for the ground, like they needed the help 233 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 3: with an AstroTurf was there. It also looked like it's 234 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 3: saw so many problems. You're a stadium owner and you say, okay, 235 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 3: there's an upfront cost here, but over X amounts of years, 236 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 3: I won't have to pay for near as much maintenance. Right, 237 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 3: So this is a long term investment for me, and 238 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 3: I want my stadium to stay around as long as possible. 239 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 3: So it becomes incredibly common in indoor and outdoor stadiums 240 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 3: all through the seventies. It goes beyond the borders of 241 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 3: the US. It's in Canada, it's in Toronto, and well. 242 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, Major League Baseball really really bought into the stuff. 243 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 2: There were a ton of brand new stadiums that were 244 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 2: built with this this turf, artificial turf laid down there, 245 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 2: and it was again touted as, oh man, this is 246 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 2: a great new thing. We got. 247 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 3: This is how the pros play, right. And as of 248 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, there are more than twelve thousand artificial 249 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 3: turf playing fields of some sort the United States, and 250 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 3: according to a trade group that we'll get into a 251 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 3: little bit later called the Synthetic Turf Council, more than 252 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 3: twelve hundred or so or installed every year in recent years, 253 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 3: definitely twenty thirteen, and the pattern seems to have continued 254 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 3: up until at least the pandemic. The idea for ask 255 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 3: Returf comes from a place called the Educational Facilities Laboratory 256 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 3: and nonprofit and they said, we want to help people learn. 257 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 3: We want to create and foster environments that set kids 258 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 3: up for success. And they've found a really interesting study 259 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 3: that showed if you're a military recruit in the fifties 260 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 3: and you come from a rural area, you will tend 261 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 3: to be more physically fit than recruits from urban areas 262 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 3: from big cities. And this is back before the majority 263 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 3: of humans lived in big cities, so it's a little 264 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 3: easier to study this. This this caused someone to urge 265 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 3: Monsanto to create a grass like surface that you could 266 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 3: lay down in city lots so kids have more places 267 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 3: to play. And you can see stuff like this in 268 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 3: playgrounds all across big cities, right Like, if you've ever 269 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 3: walked around New York, then you will see that kind 270 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 3: of green patch with the playground equipment and it's not 271 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 3: real grass, right, but it might be grass like. That's 272 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 3: what they were aiming for. They thought it was the 273 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 3: best thing. It's the turf for the future. A lot 274 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 3: of actual baseball players, because remember this started in Major 275 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 3: League Baseball. They didn't dig it. They were concerned. 276 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, one of the biggest problems is when you're 277 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 2: playing baseball, often you dive for things. 278 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 3: You know. 279 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 2: A lot of that is when you're sliding, you know, 280 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 2: if you're running around the bases doing stuff like that. 281 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 2: But if you're in the outfield, you know that you're 282 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 2: going to be diving for balls every once in a while. 283 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 2: And when you do something like that in your arm, 284 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 2: like you're let's say your elbow scratches along the grass 285 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 2: or something on the ground, you're gonna get cut up 286 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 2: a little bit. Right, It may not be crazy bad, 287 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 2: but you might get cut up a little bit, a 288 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 2: little bruising, but if you're on this artificial turf. The 289 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 2: baseball players started noticing that they were getting what was 290 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 2: akin to rugburn, like really really bad rugburn anytime they 291 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 2: would dive for anything. 292 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 4: Well, I also have to ask, I mean, you know 293 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 4: any you know, any any league play type you know, 294 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 4: sport where yeah, you ultimately are like playing to get 295 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,199 Speaker 4: into playoffs and then some sort of championship. You know, 296 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 4: is it consistency important, like in terms of like the 297 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 4: venues where you play, And couldn't having astro turf on 298 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 4: some stadiums and not others be considered either just kind 299 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 4: of like skewing the figures a little bit. 300 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that could be a concern. And you know, 301 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 3: every uh, every every stadium seat umpire would raise that 302 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 3: and other variables to explain the outcome of a game, 303 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 3: especially if they're team lost. Sorry, folks, But the issue 304 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 3: for the players was not just the rashes, the rugburn, 305 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 3: the skids that these ballplayers are encountering. It's the fact 306 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 3: that they never healed. At least that's what we heard 307 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 3: from folks like former Astros outfielder Bob Watson. Turns out 308 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 3: Bob may have been pretty prescient. This stuff was spreading 309 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 3: to football stadiums as well. By nineteen eighty four, seventeen 310 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 3: out of twenty eight NFL teams we're playing on artificial turf. 311 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 3: And to your point, Nol about the importance of having 312 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 3: a uniform field of play wherever you go, there's a 313 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 3: pretty good argument you can make at this time where 314 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 3: you say, Okay, now we're equalizing things. We need to 315 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 3: make this turf ubiquitous. It needs to be the stand 316 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 3: very convenient for the Globochems of the world. 317 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, a bit of a pain in the butt 318 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 4: for Major League Baseball and anyone that's responsible for retrofitting 319 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 4: all of these stadiums. 320 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 3: I'm picturing. I'm picturing right now. I'm picturing the the 321 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 3: AstroTurf folks making handshake deals and leaning in and saying 322 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,959 Speaker 3: Kim Grass the way that people said Hail Hydras exactly 323 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,199 Speaker 3: in those Marvel movies. 324 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, y'all, not to act like I'm oh, poor major 325 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 4: League Baseball, but I mean, you know, anytime you have 326 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 4: like a sea change like this where a new anything 327 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 4: comes up and it becomes sort of the order of 328 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 4: the day. So there are people who have to kind 329 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 4: of kick into gear and figure out how to make 330 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 4: the change without disrupting their season. 331 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but guys, I think the biggest thing here's 332 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 2: where you're talking about the handshake deal whispering in about 333 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 2: Kim Grass there, because we learned pretty recently. Gosh, I 334 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 2: guess it was a while ago now, but when the 335 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 2: Braves got a new stadium in a different part of Atlanta, 336 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 2: you guys remember this, or I guess not even really 337 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 2: Atlanta in com County, And just how huge of a deal, 338 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 2: how much money was to be made when a new 339 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 2: stadium was being built. And in this time, just before 340 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 2: AstroTurf starts making its way into other major leagues, there 341 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 2: are a ton of brand new fields that are constructed 342 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 2: with specifically chemgrass as one of the major selling points. 343 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, now, it's a feature, you know, like you're 344 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 3: buying a car. You could pony up a little extra 345 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 3: and get the airbags or the power of steering, the 346 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 3: seat belt and so on. Yes, if seat belts gave 347 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 3: you cancer. 348 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 2: Or hey, the tires, you can get the tower. 349 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 3: Go oh god, yeah, we'll get to it. 350 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,360 Speaker 4: I was annoyed to find when I bought my certified 351 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 4: pre owned Honda Fit that it did not come with 352 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 4: floor mats. 353 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 3: I know what later, what are you? What are you 354 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 3: a billionaire? You're buying cars with floor mats? Chassa over here. Uh, 355 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 3: I've been going through a thing where I referenced Monssa. 356 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 4: I don't know who is, but I imagine it's a big 357 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 4: wig of some For a long time, the the most 358 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 4: wealthy dude in history went on a tour on the 359 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 4: African continent back in the day and broke the economies 360 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 4: of every place he went to, just because he rolled with. 361 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 3: That much gold. Uh maybe a ridiculous history episode. 362 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, floor mats equals mansa musa. 363 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, all these fancy these floormat tycoons also artificial turf 364 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 3: floor mats. Probably don't buy them. You'll see why. But 365 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 3: but that is weird just to say on that for 366 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 3: a second though, Like they no floor mats. 367 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 4: Well, he didn't tell me either. 368 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 3: I had. 369 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,239 Speaker 4: I got the car and then I looked in there 370 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 4: and I was just like paper on the floor and 371 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 4: there's no floor mats. And I called him, and the 372 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 4: guy acted like I was asking the most ridiculous question. 373 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 4: I was like, what do. 374 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 3: Formats are of the car? 375 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? 376 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 4: He said that actually, and uh and then yeah, I 377 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,479 Speaker 4: just ended up buying some kind of aftermarket ones or whatever. 378 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 4: Floormats aren't like crazy expensive. I'm sorry at the end 379 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 4: of ramp, they're not crazy expensive. But yeah, you think 380 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 4: that would be stock. 381 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 3: I do a double system. I get the kind of 382 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 3: the shell floormat and then the fabric one on top 383 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 3: of that. It's just easier to clean, ask no one. 384 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 3: So anyhow, the uh, we'll talk about layers in a minute. 385 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 3: That's that's kind of a segway anyway. So the NFL 386 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 3: players also share the concerns of the baseball players when 387 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 3: it comes to AstroTurf. They say, this surface is harder, 388 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 3: We're getting more strains, we're getting more abrass than we 389 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:57,719 Speaker 3: did playing just on natural grass. And they also, this 390 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 3: is interesting. I didn't see a ton of this popping 391 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 3: up a lot. I don't know if you guys saw it, 392 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 3: but there were complaints that abrasions from artificial turf also 393 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 3: led to staff infections. 394 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 2: H yeah, I remember reading that in the Science History 395 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 2: Institute article you shared Ben that. Yeah, I think that's 396 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 2: that's a common thing, like, because they don't heal very 397 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 2: quickly for one reason or another, the infection can set in. 398 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it already feels a little creepy too, right 399 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 3: that the idea that a braiding your skin on this 400 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 3: surface will take longer to heal than if it were 401 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 3: abraided on grass. It's just weird. This didn't phase the 402 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 3: AstroTurf crew nor the other manufacturers entering the market. Were 403 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 3: millions of dollars, millions acres acres of turf, and they 404 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 3: were doing this by expanding past the major leaks, past 405 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 3: the NFL. They were going to minor leaks. We're going 406 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 3: to cope even high school teams, right, and with great 407 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 3: success because they had this beautiful marketing, you know, play 408 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 3: like the big boys essentially. 409 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 2: Well, I think about it again. We talked about this before, 410 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 2: but the number of Major League Baseball stadiums in this 411 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 2: country is very tiny. The numbers NFL teams like twenty 412 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 2: eight or something, I don't even know, thirty That that's 413 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 2: just you can make your money that many times if 414 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 2: you stay there in the big time, but if you 415 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 2: move out to the small time. Every county in the 416 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 2: country has multiple high schools, right, oh yeah. 417 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 4: And if that's entially like farm teams and stuff too, 418 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 4: you know, or like you know, minor league and. 419 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 3: All of that, right, minor leagues are a big thing. 420 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 3: That The the cool thing about this business model too, 421 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 3: if we're being just a bit soulless, is that if 422 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 3: everything goes right, they're going to keep building more schools. Yeah, 423 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 3: and what are those schools need? They need more places 424 00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 3: to play, so kaching players are complaining. And over time 425 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 3: baseball stadiums, we know, the major ones start converting back 426 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 3: to natural surfaces. New varieties and strains of grass come out, 427 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 3: and this enables you know, this enables more hardy plants matter. 428 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 3: And if you go to the nineteen nineties, you'll see 429 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 3: that the synthetic turf manufacturers introduce what they call a 430 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 3: new generation of turf, a new and improved formula, and 431 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,719 Speaker 3: they say this will be safer, softer, more comfortable. 432 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 2: And we'll tell you all about what those changes were 433 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 2: and what they meant for everybody's health. Right after a 434 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 2: word from our sponsors and we're back. 435 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 4: So we sort of teased before the break that there 436 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 4: was a change in this synthetic turf that supposedly would 437 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 4: create a safer and more comfortable playing surface. This is 438 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 4: in the nineties, so what kind of changes are we 439 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 4: talking about. Obviously the goal here is to imitate grass 440 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 4: as much as possible, you know, in terms of the 441 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 4: feel and the length of the fibers or the material 442 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 4: or whatever. But we know, as we mentioned earlier, that 443 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 4: this was causing some kind of nasty injuries. You know, 444 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 4: when folks were skidding around, they were basically getting like 445 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 4: turf rash. So in order to mitigate that, I think, 446 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 4: if I'm not mistaken, guys, the idea was to lengthen 447 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 4: these grass fibers a bit. That could perhaps cause a 448 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 4: little more cushioning, create a little bit more of a 449 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 4: soft landing. 450 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they'll bend a little more when your elbows 451 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 2: and knees and everything land on them. 452 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 3: Yeah. And they also one of the big improvements was 453 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 3: what's called the infill. You can get a good picture 454 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 3: of this if you go to the Synthetic Turf Council. 455 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 3: But of course be aware that they have a horse 456 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 3: in the race, right they have a team there rooting for. 457 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 2: Them. We went on their website, looked at all the companies. 458 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,360 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeh. 459 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 3: Get ready for that one. What you need to know 460 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 3: now is that the infill, the stuff that provides a 461 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 3: lot of this cushioning when they came out with these improvements, 462 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 3: it consisted of something called crumb rubber like cake crumb 463 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 3: with a b rubber from used tires specifically that gets 464 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 3: ground up into particles that are usually about just one 465 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 3: millimeter across, and then they get mixed up with sand. 466 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:43,400 Speaker 3: And this was at the time a very cool solution 467 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 3: to another problem. People had piles and piles and piles 468 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 3: of tires and they didn't know what to do with them, 469 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 3: you know what I mean. They they knew they wouldn't 470 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 3: decompose very easily, and they were in open air dump 471 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 3: They became condos for rats and vermin, mosquitoes, roaches, and 472 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 3: if the weather conditions were right or wrong, then these 473 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 3: piles of tires would catch on fire. 474 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 2: I am just I love this episode, guys, because it 475 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 2: really is human ingenuity and engineering at play, all intertwining. 476 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 2: Just the idea of how important tires are to the 477 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 2: growth of the United States of America, right, and Ben, 478 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 2: I know you know a ton about that with car stuff, 479 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 2: but like just how important building creating something that could 480 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 2: get all of the cars around on these brand new 481 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 2: interstates we had built at one time. 482 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 3: For Henry Ford even built his own town right out 483 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 3: in Brazil just to make tires and a bursty humility. 484 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 3: He called it Fordlandia. Yeah. 485 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 2: But then at some point those tires go back and 486 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 2: there are you know, some companies who special in getting 487 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 2: a tire back ready to go on the road, but 488 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 2: mostly those tires end up in a landfill mm hmm. 489 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. And those dumps are also they're you know, they're 490 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 3: not completely cut off from the environment obviously, so rain 491 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 3: water falls on these tires and that helps chemicals from 492 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 3: the tires leach into the ground. Everybody's saying these tires 493 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 3: are a problems. So if you are an inventor and 494 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 3: you come forward and you say, hey, I've got a 495 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 3: great way to use these, you know, you can forget 496 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 3: about the rat condos and those constant tire fires. Well, 497 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 3: let's play baseball. Then it sounds like a win win, right. 498 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. The mosquitoes for me, it's really the mosquitos. 499 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 3: Is the mosquitoes for you, and just taking like, think 500 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 3: about how many tires they're using too. One one industry 501 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 3: estimate we saw said that covering a NFL regulation football 502 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 3: field with synthetic turf using is the equivalent of twenty 503 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 3: thousand to forty thousand tires, which is a great way 504 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 3: to clean your landfill. 505 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 2: I mean, that's awesome, but I don't I never saw 506 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 2: the statistics for the number of tires scrap tires that 507 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 2: end up in landfills every year. I know it's a ton, right, 508 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 2: it's a problem. Yeah, twenty to forty thousand, that's definitely 509 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 2: making a dent. But is it just a dent? 510 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 4: When you get new tires, you know, and oftentimes the 511 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 4: auto shop or whatever, they'll for a fee dispose of 512 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 4: your tires for you, sort of more of an out 513 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 4: of sight, out of mind convenience. But it isn't really 514 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 4: like they're just vanishing these tires in a puff of smoke. 515 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 4: I mean, they're just going to one of these same places, right. 516 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 2: They'll yeah, ship them to another country sometimes. 517 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 3: Probably exactly, Yeah, and they'll they'll just it's a like 518 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 3: a nimby fee you pay quite literally so that those 519 00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 3: tires are not in your backyard the tire manufacturer. Here's 520 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:06,719 Speaker 3: the tricky part. Tires are definitely not garden variety rubber 521 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 3: like you would get from plant source. They contain a 522 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 3: lot of chemicals that make them reliable on the road, 523 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 3: stuff like oh, here we go, polysicilic aromatic hydrocarbons that 524 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 3: makes it stronger, makes it more durable. But then they 525 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 3: also treat it with zinc oxide. Zinc oxide can have lead, 526 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 3: it can have cabmium, which is also bad. This stuff 527 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 3: makes the tire more elastic, it makes it last longer, 528 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 3: but the entire entire time it is emitting those chemicals 529 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 3: or things generated by those substances. So in two thousand 530 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 3: and nine, the EPA says, all right, all right, we've 531 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 3: heard the people. We're gonna we're gonna check out synthetic 532 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 3: turf in these sports fields and by this point in 533 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 3: the two thousands it's on playgrounds too, and we're going 534 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 3: to see if any of these particulates, any of these 535 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 3: weird metals or chemicals or what are called volatile organic 536 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 3: compounds aka new car smell stuff. We're going to see 537 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 3: if that is dangerous to the people playing there. And surprise, 538 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 3: the EPA said, nah, all good. 539 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course they did. Of course they did. Uh 540 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 2: we kind of I don't want to. I don't want 541 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 2: to glide over this fact too much. It is these 542 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 2: turfs are being used in playgrounds, in playgrounds at schools, 543 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 2: and playgrounds in public parks, all kinds of places. And 544 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 2: you know, if there's potentially a problem, we got a 545 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 2: serious problem. Because it's not only affecting professional you know, 546 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 2: baseball players, football players, high school football players and baseball 547 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 2: players and soccer players. It's affecting little kids who are 548 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 2: just out there innocently playing on a playground. 549 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 3: And you could argue all all the people involved or innocent, no. 550 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 2: One else, No, no baseball player, no Major League baseball 551 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 2: players innocent. I'm just sure no. But I guess what 552 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 2: I mean from a public concern standpoint, right, that ups 553 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 2: the ante when kids are now involved. 554 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 3: Understood, Yeah, and agreed. And today only five professional baseball 555 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 3: teams still use synthetic fields. But just because the things 556 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 3: gone doesn't mean the effects or consequences of it have vanished. 557 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 3: Just last month, as we record, a report came out 558 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 3: via the Philadelphia Enquirer alleging that six former Philadelphia Phillies 559 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 3: may have died from exposure to this stuff. Here's where 560 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 3: it gets crazy. It appears to be true. Again, we 561 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 3: were very careful in the beginning to say, like, we 562 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 3: don't have all of the clue pieces, right. We know 563 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 3: a place, we know a possible weapon, and we know 564 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 3: a possible victim or perpetrator, but we don't have it 565 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 3: all connected. Yet We're still like a card short. 566 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 2: What did the we know a place where glioblastoma exists? Sorry, 567 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 2: oh god, nailed it? 568 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 3: Okay, Well, yeah, let's talk about that. What's what's the scoop? 569 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 3: What did Philly tell us? So? 570 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 4: The Philadelphia Inquirer reported that these six athletes, all of 571 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,320 Speaker 4: whom we talked about this in the Strange News segment, 572 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:33,399 Speaker 4: died from a very rare brain cancer called glioblastoma. Had 573 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 4: played most of their careers with the Phillies, which the 574 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 4: team that competed on artificial turf in Veteran stadium for decades. 575 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 4: Former EPA scientist named Kyla Bennett, who is now with 576 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 4: the Public Employees of Environmental Responsibility nonprofit, have this to 577 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 4: say about the whole the whole situation. There is a 578 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 4: high number of Philadelphia Phillies diagnosed with this rare cancer, 579 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 4: and it looks weird, so that should be a red flag. 580 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 4: We don't know what those chemicals are doing to us. 581 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,800 Speaker 4: What happened to exercising caution when we're talking about human health. 582 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 4: This is a very good question, you know, I mean, 583 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 4: and something that we've talked about many times where something like, 584 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 4: for example, asbestos. You know, at one time it was 585 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 4: promoted as being this magical future material that was you know, 586 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 4: going to be everything should be built out of this stuff, 587 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,800 Speaker 4: and then of course they are off to the races 588 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 4: installing it and everywhere from schools to hospitals, you know, 589 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 4: you name it. Only too fine, through subsequent research and 590 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 4: advances in technology and you know, analysis that this stuff 591 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 4: is just deadly. I mean, it does seem like we 592 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,839 Speaker 4: are very you know, hot for the next new thing 593 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 4: and the next new whatever that thing might be, sometimes 594 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 4: to the point of you know, hedging our bets and saying, oh, 595 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 4: it's fine, we done our due diligence. But then that 596 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 4: due diligence changes and the scope of it changes over 597 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 4: time as new methods become available for checking into this stuff. 598 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 4: Not to mention when you start to see red flags 599 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 4: like these cases we're seeing here. 600 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 2: Well, and remember the connection between the artificial turf and 601 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 2: those rare cancers at this point when we're you know, 602 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,319 Speaker 2: when we're when it's being looked into. Even then when 603 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 2: the Philadelphia Inquirers read is talking about it and writing 604 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 2: about it, it is just a connection, right. It's like, oh, 605 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 2: here's one commonality between these six baseball players that got 606 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 2: this rare cancer. But that's apparently not when the concern 607 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 2: began when it comes to baseball players being affected potentially 608 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 2: by that artificial turf. 609 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 610 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. And for her part too, Kyla Bennett is a 611 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 3: subject matter expert and is not doing some kind of 612 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 3: polemical like hot take. Genuinely say it looks weird. It 613 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 3: should be a red flag. Yeah. I think that's pretty understandable, right, 614 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 3: And like you were saying, Matt, this is I don't 615 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,879 Speaker 3: know about guys. I was surprised to find that concerns 616 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 3: date back so far. It goes beyond players saying like, hey, 617 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 3: I don't care for this from my personal experience. In 618 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, New York Times published an article about this 619 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 3: very thing, and Matt, you want to hit them with 620 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 3: the headline. 621 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, The New York Times says the brain cancer 622 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,280 Speaker 2: that keeps killing baseball players. 623 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 3: Oof, not pulling a lot of punches there. Yeah in 624 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 3: the big Apple. Okay, well this. 625 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,320 Speaker 2: Really is rare. Well you know it's rare to be 626 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,280 Speaker 2: an MLB player. Well yeah, you know, this brain cancer 627 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:49,720 Speaker 2: is really rare. Though. 628 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 3: I like that you're adding that layer too, because now 629 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 3: we're seeing an increased selection, right, So we should note 630 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,800 Speaker 3: that in these studies and reports all the stuff we've found, 631 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 3: multiple experts on brain cancer, like neurooncologists and so on, 632 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 3: take a lot of pains to say there's not a 633 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 3: one hundred percent confirmed causation. And they're they're doing that 634 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 3: because they're doctors, they're experts. They don't want to say 635 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 3: something is confirmed unless they're one hundred percent sure. So 636 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 3: we can we can note that. But while we're noting 637 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 3: that entirely to be fair, that's from the experts, we 638 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:39,320 Speaker 3: also have to note gleo blastoma is incredibly rare. It's 639 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 3: it's it's not like it's not like diabetes or something 640 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 3: or some other widespread condition. 641 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 4: No, And it's something we've talked about in the past too, 642 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 4: with these kinds of class action lawsuits, you know, even 643 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,720 Speaker 4: about you know, the Dark Waters scenario, you know, with 644 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 4: the stuff that's on the nonstick pans. It is difficult 645 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:04,719 Speaker 4: to proof unequivocally that any of these kinds of substances 646 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:09,799 Speaker 4: are one hundred percent responsible for someone's cancer because there 647 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 4: are so many other factors to take into consideration. 648 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 3: You know, yes, but discloblastoma stuff, it has an incidents 649 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,839 Speaker 3: or a frequency rate of only three point two one 650 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 3: per one hundred thousand people. 651 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 4: Like, so, is does that help the case or hurt 652 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,800 Speaker 4: the case? I think it helps. It helps the case, yes, exactly, 653 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 4: because you know, if it was a more general cancer 654 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 4: that was more widely contracted, that would be more of 655 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,840 Speaker 4: a needle in the haystack kind of situation. Because this 656 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 4: is such a narrowed focus, you know, in terms of 657 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 4: like what the what the fallout might have been, you know, 658 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 4: the consequences. Rather then it's a little easier to suggest causation. 659 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yeah, just so, Like I mean, it'd be 660 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 3: different if everybody was dying of some disease called like 661 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 3: baseball at hand, you know what I mean, Like that 662 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 3: would be kind of easy trace. But here you can 663 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,839 Speaker 3: see there's a lot of coincidence. Right. As a matter 664 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,240 Speaker 3: of fact, I think we're being quite diplomatic and deferring 665 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,440 Speaker 3: to the experts when we say this is not one 666 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:20,320 Speaker 3: hundred percent proven, but the stuff we're getting into next 667 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 3: will probably affect the way you think about playgrounds in 668 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 3: your neighborhood. 669 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:26,920 Speaker 2: Oh for sure. I just want to make the point 670 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 2: I this is an estimate, but there are around twelve 671 00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:36,760 Speaker 2: one hundred Major League Baseball players at any given time. Okay, 672 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 2: twelve hundred. How many people live in the United States. 673 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:45,439 Speaker 3: Guys, more than year and thirty million. Yeah, hmmm, very 674 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:51,360 Speaker 3: small sample set, right, And that group of twelve hundred people, 675 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 3: they do a lot of the same stuff. They do 676 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 3: some things that normal people don't do because of their job, right, 677 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:04,279 Speaker 3: Like who's who's most likely to have a space related injury? Astronauts? 678 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 3: You know what I mean. That's like who's most likely 679 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 3: to encounter the dangerous effects of synthetic turf? The people 680 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 3: who are around it the most often, you know. And 681 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 3: so all of this turf, this is the part where 682 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,239 Speaker 3: we have to introduce another recurring villain on the show. 683 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,719 Speaker 3: All of this turf is made with pfas per and 684 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 3: polyfloral aalkal substances, forever chemicals, forever chemicals. 685 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,800 Speaker 2: SHY twelve or fourteen. 686 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,880 Speaker 3: Diamond why by a diamond, get her something that'll last. 687 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 3: Get her pfas exactly I'm getting. She already has it. 688 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,879 Speaker 2: It's already just like yours. 689 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 3: Uh yeah. Some of these turfs are still made with 690 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:58,360 Speaker 3: recycled tires, which means they contain all all the nasty 691 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 3: stuff that is bad for you but great for a 692 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 3: long lasting tire. And as a result of growing number 693 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:10,400 Speaker 3: communities and even states in the US have banned these 694 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 3: specific types of turf or said hey, we should think 695 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 3: about banning these, and even the testing of multiple artificial fields, 696 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 3: the newer ones, the older ones, across the board, they 697 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 3: found that they're still a pretty high and dangerous presence 698 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,760 Speaker 3: of pfas compounds, no matter which one you look into 699 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,239 Speaker 3: and shout out to the Enquirer again over in Philly. 700 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 2: And just one thing I want to point out here. 701 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,800 Speaker 2: We talked about how the EPA in two thousand and 702 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,600 Speaker 2: nine took a look at this artificial turf and said, hey, guys, 703 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,799 Speaker 2: all those concentrations of those things you're worried about, they're 704 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,719 Speaker 2: way below what we would call levels of concern, so 705 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,480 Speaker 2: we're good to go on the turf. There was a 706 00:42:55,560 --> 00:43:01,759 Speaker 2: watchdog nonprofit called Public employees for environmental responsibility, And right 707 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,879 Speaker 2: after the EPA released those findings in two thousand and nine, 708 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 2: they said, hey, guys, you haven't thought about the temperature. 709 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:12,280 Speaker 4: It's a good point. I mean, listen, look, we let's 710 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,879 Speaker 4: just say that. We don't want to besmirch the good 711 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:20,440 Speaker 4: name of the EPA, but it does seem like sometimes 712 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 4: these these allowable levels, these tolerances that end up becoming 713 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 4: codified by them, are just convenient enough for big business. 714 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 4: Just putting that out there. 715 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:35,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like, hey, we can't keep all the rat 716 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,719 Speaker 3: poop out of cereal? What's a reasonable amount? That's still 717 00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 3: one of my favorite things. And this is, you know, 718 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 3: again not to denigrate the EPA. The individuals working there 719 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,879 Speaker 3: are brilliant people who are doing their best. We're talking 720 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,120 Speaker 3: about a systemic problem with corruption in the EPA, that's right. 721 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, the ones that are the regulators that are actually 722 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,920 Speaker 4: you know, the researchers, the regulators, the folks that are 723 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,720 Speaker 4: working there day to day, not the folks that were 724 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 4: thumbing our noses at a little bit. It's the higher ups. 725 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 4: It's the folks that like create past the laws that 726 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:11,360 Speaker 4: ultimately kind of stemy the EPA from actually doing important work. 727 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, but guys, I'm so sorry to just keep going 728 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,279 Speaker 2: back at this, but the the artificial turf testing the 729 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:23,759 Speaker 2: EPA did was so underwhelming. Let's say, because we're talking 730 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,000 Speaker 2: about these forever chemicals that exist in these grasses right 731 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,399 Speaker 2: in these fibers, and then you've got the sun that's 732 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,920 Speaker 2: beating down on them all day if you're not inside 733 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:37,279 Speaker 2: an astrodome, and when that sun hits these artificial chemicals, 734 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,880 Speaker 2: gets surface temperatures of up to one hundred and fifty 735 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:47,560 Speaker 2: degrees fahrenheit, which means you've got plastics and these carbons 736 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:49,880 Speaker 2: that are just getting superheated. 737 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 4: Being released right into the air. I would imagine, well, yeah. 738 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,400 Speaker 2: And then you've got players running around on them with cleats. 739 00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,600 Speaker 4: Nothing's gonna diving, right, Yeah, So they're they're they're roughing 740 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,040 Speaker 4: them up with their cleats. They're already in a state 741 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,359 Speaker 4: of kind of heated, you know, let's just say they're 742 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,919 Speaker 4: being almost what's the word I'm looking for activated, right, 743 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,520 Speaker 4: and then they're getting roughed up with these cleats. People 744 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,960 Speaker 4: are diving into them face first. I'm sure this stuff 745 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,319 Speaker 4: has I mean, even just the layman like us would 746 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,239 Speaker 4: be like what's the deal with that? Why aren't they 747 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,560 Speaker 4: testing for these situations? 748 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:31,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, and add to that, the EPA recently revised its 749 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,320 Speaker 3: health advisory for at least one of these things, PFOS 750 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:41,279 Speaker 3: per fluorooctane sulfonic acid, and they said, huh okay, we 751 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,960 Speaker 3: looked back into it, and no level of exposure to 752 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,720 Speaker 3: this stuff is safe, at least in drinking water. Zero 753 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,839 Speaker 3: percent is good. And one of the reasons we keep 754 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:56,399 Speaker 3: shouting out the Inquirer over in Philly is because they 755 00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:01,239 Speaker 3: obtained pieces of the Phillies artificial turf and they took 756 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,360 Speaker 3: it to not one, but two labs and found it 757 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:09,920 Speaker 3: contained sixteen types of pfas or pfas, including the stuff 758 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,200 Speaker 3: that the EPA said should absolutely not be around. 759 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,360 Speaker 4: Am I the only one that when we talk about 760 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:19,160 Speaker 4: PFA is I think of pf Chang's just putting that 761 00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:19,440 Speaker 4: out there. 762 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:26,520 Speaker 3: I think, Okay, well, was it close to lunchtime, as 763 00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,800 Speaker 3: let's take a you know what, let's take a snack break, 764 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,160 Speaker 3: snack with us. Folks will be right back and get 765 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:45,320 Speaker 3: into probably the most disturbing part of this tale. We've returned. 766 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,560 Speaker 3: So this is a bit like forensic work. Again. We 767 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:52,920 Speaker 3: can't prove exposure cause these cancers, but we can place 768 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 3: the victims in direct, repeated contact with substances that are 769 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:04,200 Speaker 3: proven to cause these conditions. Pfas bad news. Corporations spend 770 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,160 Speaker 3: a lot of time and effort matrix dodging this issue 771 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,839 Speaker 3: in the past and in the present day. These forever chemicals, 772 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:16,040 Speaker 3: they don't break down. They're around, and they cannot wait 773 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:21,719 Speaker 3: to help you get cancer, birth defects, liver problems, kidney disease. 774 00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,920 Speaker 3: They're waiting for you, and they get inside you pretty easily. 775 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,000 Speaker 3: It's not vampire rules. You don't have to invite them in. 776 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,959 Speaker 3: They can be inhaled, ingested. They can be absorbed through 777 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:38,360 Speaker 3: the skin, especially through a scrape or an open wound, 778 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:43,120 Speaker 3: say on a baseball field or a soccer field, or 779 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 3: to playgrounds. 780 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,359 Speaker 2: Dude, did you see the NBC reporting from twenty fourteen 781 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:54,680 Speaker 2: about artificial turf and soccer players, specifically goalies who were constantly, 782 00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,200 Speaker 2: you know, jumping right and landing on the ground as 783 00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 2: they're attempting to stop balls from getting in the goal. 784 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:06,040 Speaker 2: The oh my god, you guys. So many young female 785 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 2: players ended up getting types of leukemia, types of cancers, 786 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,960 Speaker 2: and there were so many goalies. You got to check 787 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,520 Speaker 2: out the reporting out of NBC from twenty fourteen if 788 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,279 Speaker 2: you haven't read that yet, it's called how safe is 789 00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,319 Speaker 2: the artificial turf your child plays on? 790 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:27,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, and again these headlines are speaking volumes. Right. The 791 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,960 Speaker 3: Phillies played on this turf between nineteen seventy one to 792 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:36,040 Speaker 3: two thousand and three. The six people who died died 793 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:40,760 Speaker 3: in their forties or their fifties. Additionally, globlastoma. The median 794 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:45,040 Speaker 3: age for that is sixty four, so they're dying at 795 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:49,239 Speaker 3: about three times the rate of the adult male general population. 796 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,160 Speaker 3: Medical experts will acknowledge the pieces are all there, but 797 00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,640 Speaker 3: they stopped short of a full confirmation. They say, you know, 798 00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,000 Speaker 3: and this is fair. They say. Other factors may have played. 799 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:06,879 Speaker 3: Lifestyle choices, right, temperature, concussions, things like that. But long 800 00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,040 Speaker 3: story short, doesn't look good, doesn't stop in Philly is 801 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,319 Speaker 3: super popular for a long time. There needs to be 802 00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:17,560 Speaker 3: a lot more research. Recommendations include things like hiring epidemiologists, 803 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,920 Speaker 3: let's get some statisticians in there, or maybe, hey, we 804 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,720 Speaker 3: should start a registry of players along with their causes 805 00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,799 Speaker 3: of death. And the fact that there's not something like 806 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,680 Speaker 3: that already is pretty weird. It reminds me of the 807 00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:35,240 Speaker 3: time we learned that the FBI just doesn't bother keeping 808 00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,560 Speaker 3: a list of people who disappear in national parks. 809 00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,719 Speaker 4: I have a question. We talked about this briefly, I 810 00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,000 Speaker 4: think on the Strange News segment, But like, you know, 811 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:47,279 Speaker 4: when someone dies of lung cancer and they were a smoker, 812 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,279 Speaker 4: they can you know, the determination could be made that 813 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:55,040 Speaker 4: smoking may have been a contributing factor, but you can't 814 00:49:55,080 --> 00:50:00,000 Speaker 4: exactly say, yes, smoking is definitely what killed this person. 815 00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,040 Speaker 3: It would be tough. It would be tough because that person, 816 00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,240 Speaker 3: unless they were in a controlled environment for the entirety 817 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,080 Speaker 3: of their life, they would inevitably run into other things 818 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:14,000 Speaker 3: that could be carcinogetic at some point, especially in the US, 819 00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:15,399 Speaker 3: if they drove a. 820 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,359 Speaker 2: Car outside him. 821 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,080 Speaker 4: Well, and again, like we we have this research, but 822 00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,320 Speaker 4: we don't know exactly how much exposure is too much? 823 00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:25,400 Speaker 4: Is one time too much? 824 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:26,440 Speaker 3: You know? 825 00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:31,640 Speaker 4: Is it ten times? Is it one season, one year 826 00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:37,080 Speaker 4: of relatively regular exposure. They don't have those answers. Nobody does, 827 00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,439 Speaker 4: to my understanding, at least, I just wanted to see 828 00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,240 Speaker 4: if that's how y'all saw it as well. 829 00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:43,719 Speaker 3: Well. I am curious there might be a group that 830 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,200 Speaker 3: low key does have the answers. We have to talk 831 00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,759 Speaker 3: about the implications hashtag. No, Dennis Reynolds didn't always going 832 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,560 Speaker 3: to show up so much of the show, but hashtag 833 00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:56,879 Speaker 3: not that kind of implication. So the turf was made 834 00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,560 Speaker 3: from old tires solve a pre existing problem the tires 835 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,560 Speaker 3: from one place to another, doesn't solve the original problem 836 00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,000 Speaker 3: with the tires. It just sort of kicks it into 837 00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:11,320 Speaker 3: another neighborhood. And we found a group that we wanted 838 00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:13,880 Speaker 3: to talk about a little bit today called the Synthetic 839 00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:18,080 Speaker 3: Turf Council. They are the biggest trade group representing AstroTurf, 840 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:22,720 Speaker 3: synthetic turf in general. And there is a lobbyists, right yeah, 841 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:26,600 Speaker 3: or trade association, industry group, whatever phrase you want to 842 00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:27,120 Speaker 3: hang it on. 843 00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:28,560 Speaker 2: They're they're advocates. 844 00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,000 Speaker 3: They're the turf Gang, the turf Boys. 845 00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:32,759 Speaker 4: Yeah, turf Gang. I like that. 846 00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:37,279 Speaker 3: So Turf Gang is in this intense rivalry between proponents 847 00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:43,120 Speaker 3: of natural grass and these applications, and you you can 848 00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:46,480 Speaker 3: go to their website right now, we got under the hood. 849 00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:50,600 Speaker 3: I'm very curious. I want to be fully transparent here. 850 00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:56,360 Speaker 3: I'm very curious what they're members only information is because 851 00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,879 Speaker 3: they have a free public facing side of the site, 852 00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,160 Speaker 3: and then for like a little less than one hundred bucks, 853 00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,480 Speaker 3: they'll give you the you know, they'll give you the 854 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:04,760 Speaker 3: fresh fresh scoop. 855 00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:12,239 Speaker 2: I'm going I'm molling, let's go. Yeah, I might hang 856 00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:16,040 Speaker 2: out with Larry Ridgeway the VC over there. What's up? 857 00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:20,640 Speaker 2: What's up, Larry, We're gonna hang on your members only area. 858 00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:22,120 Speaker 4: Yeah. 859 00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:27,120 Speaker 3: Do they have a Patreon anyway? So the STC Synthetic 860 00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,400 Speaker 3: Turf Council has a lot of information on their public 861 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,120 Speaker 3: side of the site. You can see cool cross sections 862 00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,319 Speaker 3: of how modern synthetic turf is made. You can read 863 00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:42,080 Speaker 3: reports about their their teams answering basic questions. You can 864 00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,640 Speaker 3: find a couple of statistics, but you won't find on 865 00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,239 Speaker 3: the public side of the site much research about the 866 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,200 Speaker 3: possible health dangers of astro turf. 867 00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,640 Speaker 2: No, it's not in their interest to talk about any 868 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:54,360 Speaker 2: of that stuff. 869 00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:58,080 Speaker 4: In their purview, we're here to to flag wave and 870 00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,920 Speaker 4: then we're the boosters for this stuff. Let's he no 871 00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,879 Speaker 4: attention to all of that data. 872 00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:07,000 Speaker 2: Well, but but look like really on the surface, the 873 00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:10,880 Speaker 2: synthetic surface, guys like that person Larry that I mentioned, 874 00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:12,719 Speaker 2: And Larry, I'm sorry for calling you out. You're just 875 00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,120 Speaker 2: your face and name is on the front of the 876 00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:15,920 Speaker 2: about page. 877 00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:17,440 Speaker 3: I thought you were going to say your face and 878 00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:18,239 Speaker 3: name offend me. 879 00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,680 Speaker 2: No, not at all. I'm sure Larry's an awesome person. 880 00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,319 Speaker 2: It's just Larry is the president and CEO of a 881 00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:28,600 Speaker 2: couple of companies. One is called Precision Jet, one's called 882 00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:32,319 Speaker 2: turf Bond. Precision Jet started back in two thousand and one, 883 00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,640 Speaker 2: and what they do is they create the graphics that 884 00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:40,160 Speaker 2: go on top of synthetic fields. Right, so if you've 885 00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,719 Speaker 2: got a football team or whatever, they'll they'll get that 886 00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,759 Speaker 2: going for you. Yeah, and they develop technology back in 887 00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:47,320 Speaker 2: two thousand and one to do this kind of stuff 888 00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:49,840 Speaker 2: and to make precision cutting. I believe they use I 889 00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,360 Speaker 2: think it's water and like sand or something that he 890 00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:58,000 Speaker 2: uses us. No, but he also works with turf Bond, 891 00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:03,399 Speaker 2: which is the big artificial turf adhesive that exists out there. 892 00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,440 Speaker 2: And why would you know a group that runs companies 893 00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,880 Speaker 2: like that that are all based on the business of 894 00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:16,520 Speaker 2: artificial turf Ever want anybody to hear about the potentially 895 00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,240 Speaker 2: bad things that this stuff can cause. 896 00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:21,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, another way to think about it. You go to 897 00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:25,680 Speaker 3: like you go to like the Domino's Pizza website, You're 898 00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:30,120 Speaker 3: not going to see a warning right on the front 899 00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,879 Speaker 3: page of the website about how too much pizza is bad. 900 00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:34,799 Speaker 2: Yeah. 901 00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,640 Speaker 3: Man, you know they're not gonna pump your brakes once 902 00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:39,440 Speaker 3: you got to the website and. 903 00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:43,680 Speaker 2: Nobody out pizza is the hut? I mean, come on, well, true. 904 00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:47,400 Speaker 3: Little Caesars has entered the chat. They're making crazy bread. 905 00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:48,560 Speaker 3: Oh my god. 906 00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:53,239 Speaker 4: All right, so no worried was always worth it? 907 00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,840 Speaker 3: Always Okay, well maybe this will be worth it. We 908 00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,240 Speaker 3: know we're going a little long today, but we wanted 909 00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,239 Speaker 3: to bring this story to bear one to give it 910 00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:06,320 Speaker 3: more attention. Again, not one hundred percent proven, but there's 911 00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,359 Speaker 3: one last part that stuck with me, and I think 912 00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:12,040 Speaker 3: it stuck with all of us, and probably stuck with 913 00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,239 Speaker 3: some of us listening along at home with all the 914 00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,319 Speaker 3: news about cancer coming from artificial turf that was made 915 00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:21,799 Speaker 3: from reused and scrapped tires. What should we think about 916 00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,720 Speaker 3: the tires currently in use, the tires on your car, 917 00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,480 Speaker 3: the tires on your bike, the tires on the countless 918 00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:32,640 Speaker 3: vehicles rolling all across your community today. Just like a 919 00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:38,240 Speaker 3: baseball player sliding on turf. Those tires are sliding on asphalt, right. 920 00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:42,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, didn't we do? Oh man, there's something pinging here, Ben. 921 00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:46,239 Speaker 2: We talked about a new type of tire that was 922 00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:50,520 Speaker 2: completely different. It was not based on rubber like that. 923 00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,439 Speaker 2: It was I think it was stuff for genius. Maybe 924 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,239 Speaker 2: it was stuff of the future, but it was a 925 00:55:56,280 --> 00:56:00,000 Speaker 2: tire that just I've got an image in my mind. 926 00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,080 Speaker 3: It's like a po's like segmented. 927 00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,280 Speaker 2: Yes, and it wasn't made of the same substances. 928 00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:07,600 Speaker 3: There are a couple of different things like that. Segment 929 00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:09,279 Speaker 3: and tires would be one. I guess we could all 930 00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:13,000 Speaker 3: get tank tracks on our vehicles, right and just be 931 00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,640 Speaker 3: prepared to go a little slower. But how do you 932 00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:21,239 Speaker 3: change that whole industry? Well as something you would mentioned too, like. 933 00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:24,640 Speaker 4: How well tires are made of what petroleum? You know? 934 00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:26,640 Speaker 4: I mean, it's all part of the same supply chain, 935 00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:31,239 Speaker 4: that legacy supply chain that it does not behoove you know, 936 00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,080 Speaker 4: the old guard to support changing. 937 00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:38,200 Speaker 3: It's not even an old guard question. What I'm getting 938 00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:42,280 Speaker 3: as the entirety of like you're right about the petroleum, 939 00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:46,000 Speaker 3: the enormity of change, the costs that would have to 940 00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:49,799 Speaker 3: occur ripping up all the artificial turf all across the 941 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:53,280 Speaker 3: United States. Even if it's a thing that should be done, 942 00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:56,439 Speaker 3: it's going to be difficult to do it. And it's 943 00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:59,799 Speaker 3: not if this exposure stuff is true, it's not going 944 00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:04,440 Speaker 3: to undo the consequences from the past decades. It's just 945 00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:08,319 Speaker 3: gonna hopefully prevent further consequences. I don't know, and you know, 946 00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,960 Speaker 3: it's not like turf is the only origin point of 947 00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,200 Speaker 3: this stuff, but it makes you think. I'm here in 948 00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:19,480 Speaker 3: tires outside of where I record right now, I'm gonna 949 00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:21,480 Speaker 3: take a walk after this. I got to go get 950 00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:22,040 Speaker 3: some lunch. 951 00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:24,960 Speaker 4: I don't know, man, you go to PF Changs. 952 00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:28,400 Speaker 3: I don't know. But now we don't have a PF change. 953 00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:34,120 Speaker 3: It's convenient, guys, lucky you. 954 00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:36,160 Speaker 4: We can go to the airport. 955 00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:37,520 Speaker 3: We can go to the airport that the. 956 00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:41,200 Speaker 4: PF changs at the airport serves breakfast. That's like a 957 00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,400 Speaker 4: non PF Chang thing, you know what I mean. 958 00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:47,560 Speaker 3: That's just for you, Heartsfeld, and we want to end 959 00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:50,640 Speaker 3: this episode asking how far does this go? Folks would 960 00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,120 Speaker 3: love to hear your take on the issue, the implications, 961 00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:56,600 Speaker 3: and we'd love to hear other examples of seemingly innocuous 962 00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:01,720 Speaker 3: things with a dangerous, potentially fatal dark side, Or have 963 00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:06,920 Speaker 3: you found research that totally disproves these concerns about turf? Honestly, 964 00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,960 Speaker 3: if that's the case, would love to read it. Make 965 00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,360 Speaker 3: I think everybody feel a little bit better. 966 00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:15,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, you can send it to us and through several 967 00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:19,120 Speaker 4: means on the internet. You can find us at Conspiracy 968 00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:24,000 Speaker 4: Stuff on Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube, Conspiracy Stuff show on 969 00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:26,600 Speaker 4: Instagram and TikTok. 970 00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,800 Speaker 2: Hey, do you like to call people and talk to 971 00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:32,480 Speaker 2: them on your phone? We'll call us. Talk to us 972 00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:38,000 Speaker 2: call one eight three three STDWYTK. It's a voicemail system. 973 00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:40,880 Speaker 2: Leave a message. You've got three minutes. Please give yourself 974 00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:42,840 Speaker 2: a cool nickname and let us know if we can 975 00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:45,880 Speaker 2: use your voice and message on the air. If you've 976 00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:47,880 Speaker 2: got more to say than can fit in that three minutes, 977 00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:50,800 Speaker 2: why not instead send us a good old fashioned email. 978 00:58:51,000 --> 00:59:12,800 Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. 979 00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,040 Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want you to Know is a production 980 00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:19,680 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 981 00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,600 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.