Speaker 1: I'm Kim Azzarelli and you're listening to Seneca's conversations on
Speaker 1: power and Purpose. I am so delighted to partner with
Speaker 1: Makers on the special six part series called Keep Going.
Speaker 1: In this series, we listen to incredible conversations from Makers
Speaker 1: Conferences with a special focus on d e I. The
Speaker 1: goal is to use these podcasts as a jumping off
Speaker 1: point for conversations about d e I in your own organization.
Speaker 1: I want to give a special thanks to the Maker's
Speaker 1: conference sponsors PNG Price, Waterhouse Coopers an official wellness sponsor
Speaker 1: Lulu Lemon. Now. We launched the Seneca Women Podcast Network
Speaker 1: about a year ago with founding partner PNGNG and I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio with the goal of amplifying the voices of
Speaker 1: women around the world. You probably know that podcasting is
Speaker 1: a fast growing industry, with over fifty cent of podcast
Speaker 1: audience being women. But what you may not know is
Speaker 1: that only twenty of top podcasts are hosted by women.
Speaker 1: We want to change that, so we are launching dozens
Speaker 1: of women focused and women led podcasts. So if you
Speaker 1: have a show where you want to collaborate on a show,
Speaker 1: reach out to us at info at Seneca Women dot
Speaker 1: com Now, it gives me great pleasure to introduce our
Speaker 1: guest host for the Keep Going series, Amina Brown. Amina
Speaker 1: is a spoken word poet, author and host of the
Speaker 1: podcast Her with Amina Brown on the Seneca Women Podcast Network. Amina,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Thanks Kim. I'm so
Speaker 1: honored to be the guest host of this special series
Speaker 1: and collaboration with Makers, and I'm so glad you're tuning
Speaker 1: in with us because these conversations have been inspiring and
Speaker 1: challenging in the best way. Today, we're listening to an
Speaker 1: excerpt from an incredible conversation between two Shonda Brown Duckett,
Speaker 1: President and CEO of t I A A and Janna Rich,
Speaker 1: founder and CEO of Rich Talent Group. They'll be talking
Speaker 1: about how we can create more diverse workplaces. This conversation
Speaker 1: took place at the recent Makers conference, and I know
Speaker 1: you're going to get something out of this conversation because
Speaker 1: when I first listened to it, I felt so charged
Speaker 1: up to continue doing the work of what it means
Speaker 1: for the places we work to be diverse, equitable, and inclusive.
Speaker 1: Following the conversation, I'll be joined by Libra Clemens. Libra
Speaker 1: serves as chief Diversity, Equity and Inclusion officer at Tulio
Speaker 1: the Cloud Communications, a customer engagement platform. Libra and I
Speaker 1: are going to talk about what we're hearing in this conversation,
Speaker 1: and she will give us some practical suggestions that we
Speaker 1: can bring back to the spaces where we work. Here's
Speaker 1: Janna and to Shonda Tee, what would you say? You've
Speaker 1: got a lot of companies who are genuinely committed to
Speaker 1: increasing the opportunities for women, people of color, lgbt Q folks,
Speaker 1: but they may not all know how to push that needle.
Speaker 1: How any words of wisdom for how we create more
Speaker 1: space for great women, people of color and LGBTQ people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, first and foremost, we have to decide, and
Speaker 1: you and I have had this conversation, Um, we have
Speaker 1: to decide that talent is created equally, opportunity is not.
Speaker 1: We have to decide that the way in which we
Speaker 1: may have sourced talent, or the areas of credentializing that
Speaker 1: we hold onto in terms of our past that did
Speaker 1: not include women, black, women, people of color, l g
Speaker 1: b t Q, that was out and proud and unapologetic,
Speaker 1: then we have to say, what else do we need
Speaker 1: to add into this formula so that we can make
Speaker 1: sure that we are identifying great talent. And so I
Speaker 1: think deciding a step one. I think step too, which
Speaker 1: is the accountability of senior leaders, is who are your
Speaker 1: core lieutenants. Who are the people that you are hiring,
Speaker 1: and do they share that same conviction, that same mindset,
Speaker 1: and that same level of action. Because if you do that,
Speaker 1: when you look around your table and you say does
Speaker 1: my table represent the culture that I embody? And if
Speaker 1: the answer is yes, the word that will be in
Speaker 1: your company and your organization, which is just like in
Speaker 1: financial services, the power of compounding, and what we have
Speaker 1: to do is have that compounding mindset that says, if
Speaker 1: we get one, then we get to then we get three.
Speaker 1: And by the way, compounding is additive. We're not taking
Speaker 1: the seat from someone, We're creating the space for everyone
Speaker 1: to be seen to have opportunity. So decide who are
Speaker 1: you hiring in those real key positions that can hire
Speaker 1: the people. This is not a diversity hr solely exercise.
Speaker 1: These are the people that's your CFO, the person snose,
Speaker 1: your CEO, the person who's running the p m L.
Speaker 1: It's their accountability and then lastly, I would say it
Speaker 1: is about being committed inconsistent, just like in running a big,
Speaker 1: powerful business, it's about the overtime performance. We have to
Speaker 1: make sure that diversity and inclusion and all of these
Speaker 1: beautiful words are not the flavor of the month. It's
Speaker 1: not an initiative. It becomes core to your how and
Speaker 1: when we do that, we will change the phase, we
Speaker 1: will change the outcomes, and we will change the level
Speaker 1: of talent that enters the halls of Corporate America or
Speaker 1: quite frankly, any industry and sector that does not have
Speaker 1: the representation that you just outline, Jana. And what would
Speaker 1: you say to women and especially women of color who
Speaker 1: are facing barriers to their advancement, the types of microaggressions
Speaker 1: that they have faced in the workplace, any words of
Speaker 1: wisdom or inspiration for them? Oh? Yeah, I mean, first
Speaker 1: and foremost, I think we have to know that we
Speaker 1: are worthy and deserving of everything and be unapologetic about it.
Speaker 1: And so when you are having those microaggressions or some
Speaker 1: of those um slight remarks, you know where they're almost
Speaker 1: questioning your existence, as if your gender or your complexion
Speaker 1: was the only reason why you got the jobs and
Speaker 1: they were lazy because they didn't do the research. So
Speaker 1: you don't even need to own that narrative. But I
Speaker 1: would say it's important to know that you are worthy
Speaker 1: and deserving because quite frankly, the biggest hurdle that we
Speaker 1: have to overcome many times, especially as black women, is
Speaker 1: the mental gymnastics that we do in our head when
Speaker 1: we see and feel these microaggressions and and just feel
Speaker 1: like we can't get ahead. Secondly, know that your voice
Speaker 1: is necessary and required and do not dim your light.
Speaker 1: And in order to do that, and this is why
Speaker 1: I love this conference. The power of the sister it
Speaker 1: that's where we have to connect. We have to say,
Speaker 1: you know what, I might be the only Black woman
Speaker 1: in a senior role in the company, but there's my
Speaker 1: white sister, or my Asian sister, or my l G
Speaker 1: B t Q sister that we have to come together
Speaker 1: and say, hey, I need you, I need you. And
Speaker 1: so I think we have to create that space for
Speaker 1: that vulnerability, that space for us to really share what's
Speaker 1: on our minds and in our spirit so that we
Speaker 1: can navigate these waters um collectively and together. And then lastly,
Speaker 1: lastly I would say is be unapologetic of the impact
Speaker 1: and the power that you have to make sure that
Speaker 1: that next black girl, or that next woman or person
Speaker 1: of color does not have to have the exact same
Speaker 1: road that you just traveled. We have to make it
Speaker 1: a little easier for the next person, and that is
Speaker 1: why we cannot give up even when we were dealing
Speaker 1: with the storms that we all face and will continue
Speaker 1: to face until we see a lot more representation of
Speaker 1: the sisterhood at every level of corporate America or just
Speaker 1: business in general. What a great conversation between two Shanda
Speaker 1: Brown Duckett and Janna rich Now, I'm delighted to welcome
Speaker 1: Libra Clements, Chief Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Officer at Tulio. Libra,
Speaker 1: it has touched me that this section of the conversation
Speaker 1: we're listening to that we got to hear to Shonda
Speaker 1: say these words specifically two women of color in the workplace,
Speaker 1: and the two phrases that stuck out to me right
Speaker 1: there is when she reminded us you are worthy and
Speaker 1: do not dim your light. Exactly if we weren't recording,
Speaker 1: I would bang on things just hearing that. I mean,
Speaker 1: did you feel this way too? I did I did.
Speaker 1: It hit me to my core because it's something that
Speaker 1: you have to remind yourself on a regular basis when
Speaker 1: you wake up every day, because you wake up, you
Speaker 1: go to work, whatever the organization, whatever the company is,
Speaker 1: and there was something chipping at you, chipping away at
Speaker 1: you on a regular basis. So you have to continue
Speaker 1: to fill yourself up and continue to think and just
Speaker 1: remind yourself that you are worthy, that you cannot demn
Speaker 1: your light. It's hard, it's a process. And I think
Speaker 1: about me like fifteen years ago in the workplace, and
Speaker 1: every little thing used to just break me down. I
Speaker 1: would be like in tears at home, in a fetal position.
Speaker 1: And as I got older, you know, you start to
Speaker 1: figure out and you surround yourself by people and other
Speaker 1: things too. You know, make sure that you know that
Speaker 1: you are worthy, make sure that you are connected to
Speaker 1: folks who are constantly filling your cup and that there
Speaker 1: you know, and they're reminding you not to demn your
Speaker 1: your light at all. But it is it's it's certainly
Speaker 1: a process that they gets a practice. It is a
Speaker 1: practice to remind yourself because the world is not set
Speaker 1: up for you, especially black women. I love the fact
Speaker 1: that you call that black women, let's just call it,
Speaker 1: you know, and as a black woman, every day you
Speaker 1: wake up and you're wondering what is my day going
Speaker 1: to be like because you just don't know what you're
Speaker 1: going to encounter, intentional or not. You know, I'm not
Speaker 1: saying everyone's out to get you, but you have to
Speaker 1: face those obstacles on a regular basis. And so I
Speaker 1: loved it. I think that was like, it just hit
Speaker 1: to the core. Yeah, I I feel similar to you
Speaker 1: in this and just thinking about specifically what it has
Speaker 1: meant for me to come up with that practice. I
Speaker 1: love that you said that word, Libra, that it's a
Speaker 1: practice of walking into these spaces and remembering your worthy,
Speaker 1: remembering not to dim your light. I want to bring
Speaker 1: up another quote that to Shaunda brought up here and
Speaker 1: ask for your reflections on it. To Shaunda said, talent
Speaker 1: is equal, opportunity is not exactly what can we do
Speaker 1: in our workspaces to bring up opportunity so that opportunity
Speaker 1: can of course, in our best, most ideal situation, that
Speaker 1: opportunity is up there with talent. We know that we
Speaker 1: have folks who are black folks, people of color, are
Speaker 1: BIPOP folks, are l G B t Q plus folks,
Speaker 1: are disabled community folks. Right, we know the talents here, right,
Speaker 1: how do we bring how do we bring that opportunity
Speaker 1: up there to to be equal to that. Well two things.
Speaker 1: One is, and this is my strategy all the time,
Speaker 1: you need those types of people in senior roles because
Speaker 1: they are setting the tone and the agenda for the
Speaker 1: rest of the organization. And part of the problems that
Speaker 1: have with a lot of diversity programs like oh, we're
Speaker 1: gonna hire all these people at the more the earlier
Speaker 1: career level where there's not a lot of access and
Speaker 1: power and so forth. So if you get them, and
Speaker 1: to Sanda said this, you know, if you get your CFO,
Speaker 1: your c O and all those people, but you hire
Speaker 1: them and those key roles that are decision making, they
Speaker 1: can start to shift that to start to think about
Speaker 1: equality because then that that that like senior level, you know,
Speaker 1: that c suite level, that starts to shift a bit
Speaker 1: and you start to about the opportunities because you hope
Speaker 1: they are creating opportunities for other people. So I say
Speaker 1: shoot high. The second thing is um and this is
Speaker 1: a I've been in the diversity space for a very
Speaker 1: very long time, and the word equity is something that
Speaker 1: you're seeing in the d e I space. Used to
Speaker 1: be diversity, inclusion and belonging. Now it's like all about
Speaker 1: equity because acknowledge that the talent is equal, the opportunities
Speaker 1: are not. And within equity, what does that mean You're
Speaker 1: hiring processes there have to disrupt them to ensure there's
Speaker 1: equity around that. The same thing with how you're being
Speaker 1: evaluatedt promotions and all of that. And if you ask
Speaker 1: anybody what they want in a workplace is they want
Speaker 1: equal treatment. They want equal access, equal opportunities to actually
Speaker 1: make the same amount of money as everyone else, opportunities
Speaker 1: to advance their careers or not, opportunities to actually go
Speaker 1: on leave and come back. And so what I think
Speaker 1: companies have to do is ensure that within their people
Speaker 1: processes they are doing what they can to disrupt all
Speaker 1: those biases to create equity. But I love that line
Speaker 1: because part of the problem is you have this mindset
Speaker 1: that the talent isn't equal. That you know, oh, and
Speaker 1: it tries me crazy when people say lowering the bar amina.
Speaker 1: I literally want to jump out my skin when I
Speaker 1: think about the fact that the bar has been lowered
Speaker 1: by the people that work there, the mediocre folks that
Speaker 1: cons that constitute a company is mediocre. How are you
Speaker 1: kidding me? With the loot? Drives me crazy when people
Speaker 1: say lower the bar for talent as if the talent
Speaker 1: is not equal. That is a falsehood hood all around.
Speaker 1: So what do we do to actually shift those dynamics?
Speaker 1: Shift that mindset. That's why hiring very very senior people
Speaker 1: who are black, Latin x Asian, LGBT, people with distability, veterans, background,
Speaker 1: whatever it is, from the North, from the South, from whatever,
Speaker 1: just to come in and create a different dynamic so
Speaker 1: that they can start to shift how we're starting to
Speaker 1: see an organization. So I love that quote. I actually
Speaker 1: want to write that down and like put it on
Speaker 1: like my sticky notes all over my computer because that
Speaker 1: is something I have to remind myself whatever. Besides worthy,
Speaker 1: I swear she should just have quotes and we should
Speaker 1: make T shirts. Okay to sob to quote T shirt.
Speaker 1: I'm in there. Yeah, I need these quotes on a
Speaker 1: mug right now, on a mug of something. I want
Speaker 1: to ask you this Libra from your experience having worked
Speaker 1: in the d I space for as long as you
Speaker 1: have just I want to speak to this as far
Speaker 1: as people that may be listening to us here that
Speaker 1: are new into this conversation in their workplaces and in
Speaker 1: spaces that are just beginning this process of really thinking
Speaker 1: about what does it look like to do the work
Speaker 1: of diversity, equity inclusion. I think sometimes we get caught
Speaker 1: in the idea that just sitting around the table and
Speaker 1: talking about this or having a conversation or you know,
Speaker 1: air quotes learning from each other is the work, and
Speaker 1: that is not the work. The work requires other action
Speaker 1: steps to actually see these companies make progress for folks
Speaker 1: who are at sort of the conversation the possible Kumbaya moment.
Speaker 1: What would you say, are some beginning things to do
Speaker 1: that are actually going to take action to really make
Speaker 1: things more equitable for folks. Yeah. Well, the first thing
Speaker 1: is that they ever there are a lot of people
Speaker 1: they were like, oh my god, I did this anti
Speaker 1: racist training. It was so fantastic, it was super informative.
Speaker 1: And then what I think, that's diversity. So there are steps.
Speaker 1: One thing is that you have to understand that any
Speaker 1: of these um these trainings or this you know, inclusion
Speaker 1: training or like inclusive leadership, whatever it is, their behavior
Speaker 1: are associated with those and those behaviors have to be
Speaker 1: aligned with how you are evaluating every single person. And
Speaker 1: if those behaviors are not front and center to all
Speaker 1: the work that you are doing, you actually are just
Speaker 1: listening to people talk about anti racism but you're not
Speaker 1: actually doing it. It's kind of this say versus do.
Speaker 1: There's a huge gap, right, and so the way to
Speaker 1: get people to really think about this is to tie
Speaker 1: these behaviors that whatever the inclusion model, whatever the anti
Speaker 1: race or whatever training that you took, there were behaviors
Speaker 1: associated with how you behave and conduct yourself in the workplace.
Speaker 1: Those have to be consistent with how you're evaluating them
Speaker 1: and evaluating, meaning if you don't do them, there are repercussions,
Speaker 1: Like it's there has an impact on your compensation. You
Speaker 1: don't get promoted. You don't just say, oh, well, so
Speaker 1: and so did a great job. He's kind of a
Speaker 1: jerk and he treated such and such and he didn't
Speaker 1: do this to advanced diversity. But oh it's okay, let's
Speaker 1: promote this person. We can't do that, and so that
Speaker 1: is the problem I'm having with a lot of these.
Speaker 1: We sat around, we hugged each other, I cried, you know,
Speaker 1: I've read you know, I read you know how to
Speaker 1: be an anti racist? And then I moved about my day.
Speaker 1: But it's not tied to like what this means to
Speaker 1: be a leader. Oh, by the way, this is what
Speaker 1: our expectation is, is like, this is what it means
Speaker 1: to be a prominent leader in this company, and we
Speaker 1: expect this. And if you don't do it, then you,
Speaker 1: you know, either don't get that bonus or a portion
Speaker 1: of that bonus, or you don't get promoted. Whatever it is,
Speaker 1: there has to be consequences. The second part of it is,
Speaker 1: and it's a this is more like your people processing.
Speaker 1: There's policies and processes that have all types of bias,
Speaker 1: as we talked about earlier, and so we have to
Speaker 1: do an overview and analysis of these policies to ensure
Speaker 1: that there they are as equitable as possible. That's the work.
Speaker 1: That is the work, and that's a lot hot of work,
Speaker 1: especially if you're talking about these companies that are already established,
Speaker 1: that are so big you can't even there's nothing you
Speaker 1: can do. You just kind of inch around you inch
Speaker 1: towards it, but it's a whole process. So it is.
Speaker 1: It takes a lot of work, a lot of tolerance,
Speaker 1: but it's also a lot of experience understanding the process. Libra,
Speaker 1: thank you for giving us this wisdom, giving us some
Speaker 1: things to think about, and giving us some things to do.
Speaker 1: That's what we hope, folks listening, that you are able
Speaker 1: to get some action steps to take in your own workplaces. Libra,
Speaker 1: thank you for joining us, thank you for having me,
Speaker 1: and thank you for facilitating this discussion. Really appreciate it, Libra. Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I'm so glad Libra was able to join us and
Speaker 1: share her wisdom and her experience with us. I want
Speaker 1: you to ask yourself three questions as we reflect on
Speaker 1: what Libra shared with us here. Question one, how can
Speaker 1: you ensure that diversity is reflected and who gets hired
Speaker 1: for the top roles in your workplace? Question too, how
Speaker 1: can you make sure that diversity in your workplace also
Speaker 1: means equitable pay and equitable promotion processes? And what are
Speaker 1: the consequences for those in leadership who do not practice diversity,
Speaker 1: equity and inclusion? And Question three, how can you do
Speaker 1: the work of overhauling and updating policies to ensure that diversity, equity,
Speaker 1: and inclusion actually takes place. As Libra reminded us, it
Speaker 1: takes work to do these things, a lot of work,
Speaker 1: but it is work that is worth it. So let's
Speaker 1: do it, and let's do it together. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1: What an incredible conversation. I hope you found it as
Speaker 1: valuable as I did, so tune in next Wednesday for
Speaker 1: another amazing makers conversation about how we can all contribute
Speaker 1: to making progress in the workplace. You're listening to Seneca's
Speaker 1: Conversations on Power and Purpose, brought to you by the
Speaker 1: Seneca Women podcast Network and I Heart Radio with support
Speaker 1: from founding partner PNG. Listen to Seneca's Conversations on power
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Speaker 1: website at Seneca Women dot com.