WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Paige Autumn White 0:00:46.480 --> 0:00:47.961 School of Humans. 0:00:49.241 --> 0:00:53.000 Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold case murders in 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.200 an effort to raise public awareness invite witnesses to come 0:00:56.241 --> 0:01:00.121 forward and present evidence that could potentially be further investigated 0:01:00.121 --> 0:01:03.761 by law enforcement. While we value insights from family and 0:01:03.801 --> 0:01:07.720 community members, their statements should not be considered evidence and 0:01:07.761 --> 0:01:11.520 point to the challenges of verifying facts inherent in cold cases. 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:15.800 We remind listeners that everyone has presumed innocent until proven 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:19.080 guilty in a court of law. Nothing in the podcast 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.080 is intended to state or imply that anyone who has 0:01:22.161 --> 0:01:25.601 not been convicted of a crime is guilty of any wrongdoing. 0:01:26.241 --> 0:01:27.121 Thanks for listening. 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:34.561 On Saturday, March twenty seventh, twenty twenty one, a hiker 0:01:34.681 --> 0:01:37.240 was taking her dogs through the woods in Hot Springs 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:41.080 National Park near the intersection of Whittington and Black Snake Road. 0:01:41.961 --> 0:01:46.401 According to US News, Arkansas is a relatively dangerous state 0:01:46.481 --> 0:01:49.681 per capita. It's ranked forty seventh out of fifty on 0:01:49.721 --> 0:01:52.880 their list for lowest violent crime rate, one being the 0:01:52.921 --> 0:01:55.121 least violent, fifty being the most violent. 0:01:56.161 --> 0:01:57.840 Some areas are safer than others. 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:01.841 Hot Springs Village, which is a gated community, has some 0:02:01.881 --> 0:02:05.200 of the lowest crime rates in the state. But Hot Springs, 0:02:05.361 --> 0:02:09.001 like a lot of small towns, has its dark side. 0:02:09.121 --> 0:02:10.400 The Hot Springs. 0:02:10.001 --> 0:02:12.881 Mineral baths and casino bring in a ton of tourists, 0:02:13.161 --> 0:02:16.921 which brings a transient population to the area, and like 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.281 a lot of areas, there are disenfranchised people who. 0:02:20.081 --> 0:02:21.041 Have drug addictions. 0:02:21.921 --> 0:02:26.041 The most common crimes in Hot Springs aren't violent. They're 0:02:26.081 --> 0:02:31.601 crimes like theft, including a lot of larceny, petty theft, shoplifting, pickpocketing, etc. 0:02:32.601 --> 0:02:34.921 Followed by motor vehicle theft and burglary. 0:02:36.041 --> 0:02:37.681 So the hiker. 0:02:37.401 --> 0:02:39.961 Felt safe that day heading out to the woods on 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:43.441 her own. She said she'd always love going to remote 0:02:43.441 --> 0:02:46.921 part to the woods, but on that day her perception 0:02:47.041 --> 0:02:50.041 of the woods as a place of peace changed forever. 0:02:50.881 --> 0:02:52.521 We got a chance to get her side of the 0:02:52.521 --> 0:02:56.321 story for the podcast. The hiker asked that we not 0:02:56.401 --> 0:02:59.801 identify her due to the horror of what she saw 0:03:00.441 --> 0:03:02.881 and the fact that a killer could still be on 0:03:02.921 --> 0:03:03.321 the loose. 0:03:04.481 --> 0:03:06.561 Let's see, I had my dogs. I have three dogs, 0:03:06.961 --> 0:03:10.401 And so you can drive downtown Hawk Springs down Whittington 0:03:11.401 --> 0:03:13.041 and it's kind of like a little back road. 0:03:13.081 --> 0:03:15.520 It goes zigzags. 0:03:14.921 --> 0:03:17.201 It goes up over I think it's a music mountain 0:03:17.361 --> 0:03:19.241 in the past, and then you'd come back out on 0:03:19.241 --> 0:03:21.721 the Mountaine Highway and then you know, you can go 0:03:21.761 --> 0:03:23.841 on to Lake Hamilton. So I was taken that background. 0:03:23.881 --> 0:03:24.481 I had my dog. 0:03:24.841 --> 0:03:27.241 There are some trails on that mountain that this is 0:03:27.281 --> 0:03:30.081 not a designated trail. There's two places where you can 0:03:30.121 --> 0:03:32.800 just kind of pull over. So I pulled my car over, 0:03:32.841 --> 0:03:35.201 I let the dogs out, and we kind of rope around. 0:03:35.201 --> 0:03:37.881 And I had been to this place before. 0:03:39.321 --> 0:03:41.521 She went to an area she had been to many 0:03:41.561 --> 0:03:45.121 times before in the National Park, a remote area that 0:03:45.241 --> 0:03:48.001 had served as a dumping ground for trash in the past. 0:03:49.001 --> 0:03:51.881 It's part of the National Park property. I believe that 0:03:51.961 --> 0:03:54.761 one time they used to have it dumps, like way 0:03:54.761 --> 0:03:58.161 back thirties or forties. So there's bottles, there's bricks, and 0:03:58.201 --> 0:03:59.961 you can't see it from the rug. But when you 0:03:59.961 --> 0:04:01.641 get back in there and you walk the trail, there's 0:04:01.641 --> 0:04:03.481 a creek. You know, you can find kind of piles 0:04:03.521 --> 0:04:06.441 of rubble and things like that. So we're just walking 0:04:06.481 --> 0:04:09.641 around the dogs and I'm looking at my newest youngest 0:04:09.681 --> 0:04:12.041 dog barks and I'm like, oh, what you got Because 0:04:12.041 --> 0:04:15.281 they're squirrel dogs, you know. And so I go over 0:04:16.041 --> 0:04:19.921 to where she's barking and I look, and I was 0:04:20.001 --> 0:04:22.641 instantly like, oh shit, like, oh my god, Oh my god, 0:04:22.681 --> 0:04:23.840 it's Annequin. What is that? 0:04:23.921 --> 0:04:24.361 What is that? 0:04:24.561 --> 0:04:27.681 And so I like crouched, I crouched down and kind 0:04:27.721 --> 0:04:30.041 of looked, you know, all around the woods. 0:04:30.521 --> 0:04:33.280 That they've never said in the public release. 0:04:33.601 --> 0:04:37.640 They never publicly acknowledged what type of remains or the 0:04:37.681 --> 0:04:39.880 state of their remains or anything like that. 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:41.121 They just said. 0:04:40.961 --> 0:04:45.161 Remains were found. But she was just me and I 0:04:45.161 --> 0:04:47.241 only found two parts of hers. 0:04:48.001 --> 0:04:50.561 Which parts did you see? 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.601 I found her legs from the knees down. 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:57.001 I'm Catherine Townsend. 0:04:57.401 --> 0:05:00.961 Over the past eight years of making my true crime podcast, 0:05:01.041 --> 0:05:04.161 Helen Gone, I've learned that there's no such thing as 0:05:04.161 --> 0:05:07.841 a small town where murder never happens. I have received 0:05:07.961 --> 0:05:11.801 hundreds of messages from people all around the country asking 0:05:11.841 --> 0:05:15.761 for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families. 0:05:15.561 --> 0:05:16.561 And their communities. 0:05:17.281 --> 0:05:19.241 If you have a case you'd like me and my 0:05:19.281 --> 0:05:21.801 team to look into, you can reach out to us 0:05:21.841 --> 0:05:25.121 at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight seven, 0:05:25.201 --> 0:05:28.641 four four, six, one four or five that's six seven 0:05:28.681 --> 0:05:32.521 eight seven four four six' one four or, five or 0:05:32.721 --> 0:05:35.880 you can send us a message On instagram At helen. 0:05:35.921 --> 0:06:24.681 Gonepod this Is Helen Gone murder. Line because the remains 0:06:24.681 --> 0:06:28.161 were found on federal, land officers from The National Park 0:06:28.241 --> 0:06:31.281 service showed up at the. Scene so the way that 0:06:31.361 --> 0:06:34.881 it works with jurisdiction is that if the homicide occurs 0:06:35.001 --> 0:06:38.561 inside the park, boundary which is federal, land THE Us 0:06:38.681 --> 0:06:41.841 Park rangers are typically the first ones to. Respond The 0:06:41.961 --> 0:06:47.001 National Park Services investigation To branch leads the. Investigation these 0:06:47.041 --> 0:06:50.681 investigators are federal agents and they're highly. Trained they have 0:06:50.761 --> 0:06:53.081 to deal with everything from homicides in the park to, 0:06:53.241 --> 0:06:57.401 poachers property, crime and also things like people growing or 0:06:57.481 --> 0:06:58.601 using drugs inside the. 0:06:58.641 --> 0:07:01.440 Park their job has a lot of. 0:07:01.521 --> 0:07:04.241 Challenges they have to deal with a lot of different 0:07:04.281 --> 0:07:08.601 types of crimes in very large. Areas if someone is 0:07:08.681 --> 0:07:13.241 arrested and, charged then THE Us attorneys. Prosecute very often 0:07:13.321 --> 0:07:16.041 in cases like, this THE fbi is brought in to, 0:07:16.161 --> 0:07:21.441 help along with state and local. Agencies when the hiker 0:07:21.561 --> 0:07:24.441 realized what she was looking, at she was. 0:07:24.481 --> 0:07:27.081 Stunned SO i was. 0:07:27.081 --> 0:07:28.521 Freaking, out, like oh my, God oh my, god oh my. 0:07:28.521 --> 0:07:30.961 God SO i gathered up the dogs AND i went 0:07:30.961 --> 0:07:32.361 and got them back in a. Car and the first 0:07:32.401 --> 0:07:34.081 THING i need IS i callised And i'm, like oh, 0:07:34.081 --> 0:07:34.441 shit oh. 0:07:34.481 --> 0:07:36.561 Shit off to the. Barn she, said are you? 0:07:36.601 --> 0:07:38.721 OKAY i said. Yes she, said go back real quick 0:07:38.721 --> 0:07:41.801 and take a picture and then call the. Police So 0:07:41.881 --> 0:07:44.641 ramball's back over, there AND I i didn't really want to, 0:07:44.641 --> 0:07:47.481 look BUT i took a. Picture and WHEN i first saw, 0:07:47.641 --> 0:07:52.041 them they were laying like side by, side as if 0:07:52.081 --> 0:07:54.041 you had just stretched your legs, out you. Know so 0:07:54.081 --> 0:07:57.841 they're like laying. Them BUT i think my dog may 0:07:57.881 --> 0:08:00.121 have grabbed one or touched it or smelled. It and 0:08:00.161 --> 0:08:02.841 so WHEN i went back and took the, picture the 0:08:02.921 --> 0:08:03.721 leg was a little. 0:08:03.761 --> 0:08:08.361 Moved we're not going to reveal a ton of detail 0:08:08.361 --> 0:08:11.321 about the crime scene to preserve the integrity of the, 0:08:11.321 --> 0:08:15.761 investigation BUT i can say the legs were together and 0:08:15.801 --> 0:08:16.161 out in the. 0:08:16.201 --> 0:08:19.321 Open they were on the surface of the, forest not. 0:08:19.481 --> 0:08:22.161 BURIED i didn't really. LOOK i MEAN i didn't look, 0:08:22.161 --> 0:08:25.081 close you, know it just sort of looked. Bruising so 0:08:25.121 --> 0:08:27.601 that The National Park service police came because it's The 0:08:27.681 --> 0:08:30.881 national Park. LAND a very young officer asked me what was, 0:08:31.001 --> 0:08:33.361 up and then WHEN i was trying to be calm 0:08:33.441 --> 0:08:35.200 AND i feeled out my, REPORT i had a little. 0:08:35.241 --> 0:08:40.841 Sketch The National park personnel did an extensive. Search it's 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.921 not clear if they found more body, parts because this 0:08:44.081 --> 0:08:48.121 is technically still an open and active. Investigation though five 0:08:48.241 --> 0:08:50.920 years have passed and there appears to be little movement 0:08:50.961 --> 0:08:54.521 on the. Case photos of the tattoo on the victim's 0:08:54.521 --> 0:08:58.560 foot were released. Publicly you could see a tattoo of 0:08:58.601 --> 0:09:00.681 an anchor on her foot with some words next to. 0:09:00.761 --> 0:09:03.481 It in one image that was posted on web, slus 0:09:04.001 --> 0:09:07.121 you can see cursive print that reads and your feet 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.801 on the. Ground so that foot might have been part 0:09:10.841 --> 0:09:13.001 of a larger tattoo that continued on to her other. 0:09:13.081 --> 0:09:18.041 Foot given the limited amount of, photographs we can't be. 0:09:18.121 --> 0:09:22.241 Sure the witness said that after her initial, interview THE 0:09:22.321 --> 0:09:24.601 fbi called her to set up an appointment to come 0:09:24.641 --> 0:09:27.401 to her, house which they did a couple of days. 0:09:27.441 --> 0:09:31.001 Later So sunday we go back home AND i tell my, 0:09:31.081 --> 0:09:32.440 Husband i'm going to go back over the mountain and, 0:09:32.521 --> 0:09:34.040 see you, know what's, up what's going on over. 0:09:34.081 --> 0:09:35.961 There, well they had the mountain blocks. 0:09:35.761 --> 0:09:38.040 Like you could not access that whole section of the 0:09:38.081 --> 0:09:40.201 highway BECAUSE i guess they were going to search, obviously 0:09:40.601 --> 0:09:42.321 but THEN i don't. KNOW a couple of days, later 0:09:42.361 --> 0:09:44.201 THE fbi called and said in a point and they 0:09:44.201 --> 0:09:48.280 came to my house and they interviewed, me you, know 0:09:48.761 --> 0:09:50.681 what happened and what did you see and all, that 0:09:50.721 --> 0:09:53.280 And i'm sure just to see IF i wasn't. Involved you, 0:09:53.321 --> 0:09:55.441 know at that, POINT i didn't know who it. Was 0:09:56.201 --> 0:09:57.841 i'm a, mother AND i was just, thinking oh my, 0:09:57.881 --> 0:10:01.001 god why DID i stop? There like WHY i found 0:10:01.001 --> 0:10:03.601 her for a? Reason so that was my. Mission i'm, 0:10:03.641 --> 0:10:05.881 like no one would have found her HAD i not 0:10:06.001 --> 0:10:06.441 stopped that. 0:10:06.521 --> 0:10:09.241 Day who would have, Known no one that would ever. 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:11.281 Known and so then this person's, missing And i'm, like 0:10:11.361 --> 0:10:14.440 someone is wondering who is this and what has. 0:10:14.521 --> 0:10:19.401 Happened after THE fbi spoke to, her she said that 0:10:19.481 --> 0:10:22.841 she continued to be fixated on the young, woman what 0:10:22.961 --> 0:10:25.721 had happened to, her who could have done this to 0:10:25.801 --> 0:10:39.121 her and. WHY a few days, later the victim was 0:10:39.121 --> 0:10:43.241 identified as thirty two year Old Page Autumn. White Page 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:46.761 white was born On august, thirtieth nineteen eighty. Eight we 0:10:46.961 --> 0:10:49.641 know that she lived in The Hot springs general, area 0:10:50.041 --> 0:10:52.441 though we don't know a lot about the time period 0:10:52.481 --> 0:10:56.160 before twenty. Fifteen that was when she started to get 0:10:56.321 --> 0:10:59.881 arrested In. Arkansas she would have been around twenty two 0:11:00.001 --> 0:11:04.961 years old in twenty. Fifteen there were several agencies mentioned 0:11:05.001 --> 0:11:08.601 in connection with the investigation Into page's. Death The National 0:11:08.641 --> 0:11:12.121 Park service was in, charge though early in the investigation 0:11:12.521 --> 0:11:16.241 they announced they were receiving assistance from other, agencies including THE, 0:11:16.321 --> 0:11:20.321 fbi The Garland County Sheriff's, Office Arkansas State, police and 0:11:20.361 --> 0:11:24.521 The Hot Springs Police. Department we filed for your requests 0:11:24.561 --> 0:11:27.321 with all of these. Agencies they came back and told 0:11:27.401 --> 0:11:31.361 us definitively The National Park service was leading the investigation, 0:11:31.481 --> 0:11:35.201 currently and The Park service had all of the records 0:11:35.241 --> 0:11:40.040 pertaining To page's case in their. Custody we did find 0:11:40.121 --> 0:11:43.241 several social media pages that appear to have been created By. 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.241 Page in some of these, profiles she said she lived 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:50.721 in other, areas Including, Columbia South, carolina And, circe but 0:11:50.881 --> 0:11:54.001 we have no way of knowing if that's. Accurate we 0:11:54.121 --> 0:11:57.161 know that between around twenty fifteen and the time she 0:11:57.241 --> 0:12:01.401 died around six, Years page was arrested more than twenty, 0:12:01.441 --> 0:12:03.241 times mostly for petty. 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:05.241 Crimes according to court. 0:12:05.241 --> 0:12:08.281 Records her, Mother, marcia also had a long criminal, record 0:12:08.681 --> 0:12:13.721 including multiple arrests for. Drugs several people who Knew page 0:12:13.721 --> 0:12:17.521 commented on social media That page also had a, Stepfather but, 0:12:17.601 --> 0:12:20.121 again we don't know much about her family set up 0:12:20.601 --> 0:12:24.201 or what she was doing during this. Time what we 0:12:24.361 --> 0:12:26.681 do know from her court arrests is that she was 0:12:26.761 --> 0:12:30.721 clearly someone who struggled with the law and with substance abuse. 0:12:30.761 --> 0:12:35.121 Issues according to social media, Posts page had, children but 0:12:35.201 --> 0:12:37.641 we don't know how many children she, had what their ages, 0:12:37.681 --> 0:12:39.681 are who they were living with at the time of her, 0:12:39.721 --> 0:12:44.001 death or who they're living with. Now what little we 0:12:44.161 --> 0:12:47.401 do know About Page white we mainly picked up from 0:12:47.441 --> 0:12:51.041 social media tributes by friends or her court. Record In, 0:12:51.161 --> 0:12:56.481 arkansas beginning in twenty, Fifteen page was arrested multiple, times 0:12:56.841 --> 0:13:00.841 mostly for small things like public intoxication and drunken disorderly. 0:13:00.881 --> 0:13:05.601 Behavior there was only one felony on, record for residential. Burglary, 0:13:06.201 --> 0:13:09.761 Typically page would be, arrested be sentenced to, probation and 0:13:09.801 --> 0:13:12.561 then either failed to appear or to comply with the 0:13:12.561 --> 0:13:15.801 conditions that the court had imposed on. Her then a 0:13:15.841 --> 0:13:18.841 warrant would be issued for her, arrest but for long 0:13:19.001 --> 0:13:23.681 periods of, Time page just. Disappeared she was one of 0:13:23.801 --> 0:13:26.921 so many young people who struggle with substance abuse and 0:13:26.961 --> 0:13:32.161 slipped through the cracks of the. System according to court, 0:13:32.201 --> 0:13:36.241 Records page was five feet four inches tall and weighed 0:13:36.321 --> 0:13:40.081 around one hundred and fifty. Pounds, Also page had some 0:13:40.201 --> 0:13:44.441 other injuries that predated her. Death she had a missing right, 0:13:44.521 --> 0:13:47.241 eye but the injury to the eye had happened to 0:13:47.241 --> 0:13:50.801 her much earlier and was not something that her killer 0:13:50.961 --> 0:13:54.441 or killers could have done to. Her court records show 0:13:54.521 --> 0:13:56.761 she had an eye surgery back in twenty. 0:13:56.841 --> 0:13:59.361 Nineteen now we have. 0:13:59.481 --> 0:14:03.521 Heard through multiple sources that either someone Who page was 0:14:03.601 --> 0:14:08.201 romantically involved, with or possibly someone she was doing sex work, 0:14:08.321 --> 0:14:12.280 for or, both got into a fight with her and attacked, 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:15.041 her and that as a result of the, Fight page 0:14:15.081 --> 0:14:18.201 lost her. Eye, again we have not been able to confirm, 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:23.281 This so what do we know what happened In march 0:14:23.281 --> 0:14:26.281 of twenty twenty. One we are trying to build a 0:14:26.281 --> 0:14:29.521 timeline of what was going on In page's life during 0:14:29.561 --> 0:14:33.961 that crucial period before her body was. Found as we said, 0:14:34.001 --> 0:14:37.081 Before page's most serious crime was in twenty twenty a. 0:14:37.121 --> 0:14:40.841 Felony she was arrested In april of twenty twenty for 0:14:40.961 --> 0:14:44.201 breaking and entering a. Residence this was after a witness 0:14:44.241 --> 0:14:46.921 saw her leaving a deer cabin in the. Woods she 0:14:47.041 --> 0:14:50.481 was seen walking down the road In, Delight, arkansas with 0:14:50.601 --> 0:14:52.681 a lot of possessions from inside. 0:14:52.321 --> 0:14:53.281 That home in her. 0:14:53.281 --> 0:14:57.561 Hands the officer noted that when he Approached, paige she 0:14:57.681 --> 0:15:03.161 was extremely intoxicated and, incoherent and she was. Arrested, Eventually 0:15:03.241 --> 0:15:05.921 paige was given a thirty six month suspended sentence and. 0:15:05.961 --> 0:15:11.441 Probation On november, nineteenth twenty, twenty state investigators conducted a 0:15:11.521 --> 0:15:14.041 home visit at the address That paige had given the 0:15:14.041 --> 0:15:18.241 courts In, Delight, arkansas and according to court, documents they 0:15:18.281 --> 0:15:20.121 were Told page no longer lived. 0:15:20.121 --> 0:15:22.041 There according to the. 0:15:21.921 --> 0:15:25.801 Conditions Of page's, probation she had to comply with several, 0:15:25.881 --> 0:15:30.281 rules including abstaining from drugs and alcohol and notifying the 0:15:30.321 --> 0:15:33.561 court if she changed her. Address so In february of 0:15:33.561 --> 0:15:37.881 twenty twenty, one her parole was revoked for violating these 0:15:37.921 --> 0:15:41.481 conditions and a warrant was issued for her, arrest but 0:15:41.601 --> 0:15:46.801 again nothing. Happened authorities didn't really take action after That 0:15:47.361 --> 0:15:51.801 page fell off the radar again Until march, third twenty twenty, 0:15:51.801 --> 0:15:55.401 one When page was arrested and charged with disorderly conduct 0:15:55.441 --> 0:15:59.761 and public. Intoxication this was WHEN covid was really ramping. 0:15:59.841 --> 0:16:03.561 Up page appeared in a video visit On march, fifth 0:16:03.761 --> 0:16:04.481 in front Of Judge. 0:16:04.521 --> 0:16:07.481 Graham page ended up making a plea of no. 0:16:07.601 --> 0:16:10.801 Contest she was set to appear again in court from 0:16:10.881 --> 0:16:14.641 mental health hearing On april, ninth twenty twenty, one but 0:16:14.681 --> 0:16:17.921 that mental health hearing never, happened and the last thing 0:16:18.001 --> 0:16:20.921 related To page in the court records was an article 0:16:20.961 --> 0:16:24.161 in The Hot Spring sentinel about her being found. Dead 0:16:26.041 --> 0:16:29.321 according to court, Records page was ordered by the judge 0:16:29.321 --> 0:16:33.081 to go to rehabilitation. Treatment page chose to go To Harbor, 0:16:33.121 --> 0:16:37.121 house a rehab facility In Hot Springs National. Park this 0:16:37.281 --> 0:16:40.881 facility is located right off Of Black Snake, road the 0:16:41.001 --> 0:16:45.441 road her body was found off. Of so what happened 0:16:45.441 --> 0:16:49.521 To page after she went to that rehab. Center the 0:16:49.601 --> 0:16:52.681 next activity on the court document happened On march twenty, 0:16:52.681 --> 0:16:57.041 second twenty twenty, one When page left. Rehab according to court, 0:16:57.081 --> 0:17:01.241 Records page Left Harbor house that day against medical. Advice 0:17:02.201 --> 0:17:05.001 why did she check out early and leave against medical. 0:17:05.041 --> 0:17:07.961 Advice who did she talk to while she was? There 0:17:08.321 --> 0:17:10.880 and did police ever go back to that rehab and 0:17:11.001 --> 0:17:14.041 check the phone? Records was someone with her when she? 0:17:14.161 --> 0:17:17.321 Left did someone pick her? Up there are many unanswered. 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:22.241 Questions five days, Later page's. 0:17:21.761 --> 0:17:23.080 Body was found in the. 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:36.160 Woods the person who Found page's remains took a picture 0:17:36.281 --> 0:17:39.440 of the legs before calling the, authorities which they have 0:17:39.521 --> 0:17:43.521 shared with. Us we considered very carefully whether or not 0:17:43.561 --> 0:17:47.121 to make any of this information. Public, obviously we don't 0:17:47.120 --> 0:17:49.241 want to put any information out there that only the 0:17:49.321 --> 0:17:53.041 killer would, know or to put our witnesses life in any. 0:17:53.121 --> 0:17:53.481 Danger. 0:17:54.201 --> 0:17:57.001 There it can be costs related to revealing, information and 0:17:57.001 --> 0:17:59.921 we take that very. Seriously but at some, point after 0:18:00.041 --> 0:18:04.321 five years with no progress on this, INVESTIGATION i believe 0:18:04.361 --> 0:18:09.041 there's also a cost associated with staying. Silent so we 0:18:09.161 --> 0:18:11.120 have to ask, ourselves as we often do on this, 0:18:11.161 --> 0:18:15.041 podcast are we actually helping to protect the integrity of 0:18:15.041 --> 0:18:18.081 the investigation by staying, quiet or are we. 0:18:18.121 --> 0:18:19.321 Merely helping protect the. 0:18:19.401 --> 0:18:22.961 SILENCE i believe that at this point the time has 0:18:23.001 --> 0:18:26.001 come to reach out to the public with more. Details 0:18:26.481 --> 0:18:29.281 law enforcement may or may not agree with, me so 0:18:29.761 --> 0:18:32.961 we're not revealing all the information that we. Have we're 0:18:32.961 --> 0:18:36.281 not making those photos, public and there are details from 0:18:36.321 --> 0:18:39.920 them that we are not sharing. Publicly so WHEN i 0:18:40.001 --> 0:18:43.521 first read about this, case given pages, HISTORY i was 0:18:44.001 --> 0:18:47.281 under the impression that she may have wandered into the woods. 0:18:46.961 --> 0:18:48.241 On her own and succumbed to the. 0:18:48.281 --> 0:18:52.600 Elements but THE fbi made it clear this is a. 0:18:52.641 --> 0:18:56.721 Homicide something else that the person who Found page's remains 0:18:56.801 --> 0:19:00.880 told us definitely points to a. Homicide there was lime 0:19:01.041 --> 0:19:03.680 found at the crime. Scene here's the hiker. 0:19:03.801 --> 0:19:06.761 Again another thing that they did not relate to AND 0:19:06.801 --> 0:19:09.400 i haven't seen, anywhere and SO i only know, this 0:19:09.561 --> 0:19:11.921 pleasefully know this must supposed to people who did. It 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:16.481 was they put lime on her, legs powdered, lime and 0:19:16.561 --> 0:19:19.481 that helps the. Composition it helps with fail like. THIS 0:19:19.641 --> 0:19:21.080 i use it in my barn like for a. 0:19:21.121 --> 0:19:22.241 Pope you, know it gets for the. 0:19:22.241 --> 0:19:25.721 Smell but it was powdered powdered, lime so it looked, 0:19:26.001 --> 0:19:27.001 chalky like they look. 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:32.761 CHALKY i believe that the lime could be a massive crucial. Clue, 0:19:33.001 --> 0:19:35.321 Again i'm not going to get into the appearance of 0:19:35.321 --> 0:19:37.920 the crime scene or where the line, was BUT i 0:19:38.041 --> 0:19:40.960 do believe the lime could help us figure out the 0:19:40.961 --> 0:19:44.761 identity of the. Killer lime is something that has been 0:19:44.881 --> 0:19:49.241 used in many high profile homicide, cases mainly because people 0:19:49.321 --> 0:19:54.241 mistakenly believe that it speeds up. Decomposition they're probably thinking 0:19:54.281 --> 0:19:58.521 of quicklime calcium. Oxide, now quicklime is very caustic and 0:19:58.601 --> 0:19:59.080 reacts with. 0:19:59.161 --> 0:20:01.241 Water but the lime that you buy at. 0:20:01.161 --> 0:20:03.120 The hardware, store which is the type of lime that 0:20:03.161 --> 0:20:06.041 appeared to be at this crime, scene is. Different this 0:20:06.201 --> 0:20:10.801 is powdered lime calcium. Hydroxide powdered lime can be bought 0:20:10.801 --> 0:20:13.521 at stores like home. Depot it can be used in 0:20:13.561 --> 0:20:17.481 gardening and, construction and it's often used a lot in, 0:20:17.601 --> 0:20:22.401 farming often to camouflage. Smells, again this type of lime 0:20:22.481 --> 0:20:26.401 does not make things decompose. Faster in, fact lime slows 0:20:26.441 --> 0:20:30.001 down the process of decay because it's. Alkaline studies show 0:20:30.161 --> 0:20:32.481 that it preserves the body more than it dissolves. It, 0:20:33.321 --> 0:20:38.120 again neither type of, lime quicklime or powdered, lime dissolves bodies. 0:20:38.121 --> 0:20:41.921 FASTER i found a study In belgium where they buried 0:20:42.161 --> 0:20:46.001 pigs and human rem for six, months some in, quicklime 0:20:46.121 --> 0:20:49.161 some in powdered, lime and they found That in all, 0:20:49.241 --> 0:20:54.360 cases the decomposition was slowed, down not sped. Up rather 0:20:54.481 --> 0:20:57.601 than turning flesh into, liquid which is what we see 0:20:57.601 --> 0:21:01.200 in a lot of, movies lime actually mummifies the. Flesh 0:21:02.241 --> 0:21:05.401 but lime does serve a purpose when dealing with dead. 0:21:05.441 --> 0:21:08.840 Bodies it can help conceal the body by reducing. Odor 0:21:09.401 --> 0:21:11.481 soldiers in battle used to use it on the field 0:21:11.521 --> 0:21:13.600 to mask the smell of death and make it easier 0:21:13.601 --> 0:21:16.761 to live. Around, today in, farming it's often used to 0:21:16.801 --> 0:21:18.481 mask odors in places. 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:19.801 Like chicken, coops pig, sties and. 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:24.640 Horsetalls so if someone knew that lime could mask, odor 0:21:25.041 --> 0:21:26.721 they might have chosen to use it in order to 0:21:26.761 --> 0:21:29.801 cover up the. Smell, this in my, opinion points to 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:34.721 an inexperienced, killer someone who was somewhat. Panicked another question 0:21:34.761 --> 0:21:37.321 that comes up for me is did the killer put 0:21:37.321 --> 0:21:39.080 the lime at the crime scene when the body was 0:21:39.161 --> 0:21:43.321 dumped or could they have come back? Afterwards if, so 0:21:44.001 --> 0:21:47.481 was this someone, local someone who knew the. Area, well 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:50.281 that's what THE fbi seemed to say in the very 0:21:50.321 --> 0:21:55.041 limited information they have released on this. Case shortly After 0:21:55.161 --> 0:21:58.041 page's body was, found there were a lot of rumors 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:01.521 spreading on social Media some people said her body was chopped. 0:22:01.601 --> 0:22:05.201 Up others said it was. Dismembered some people said parts 0:22:05.201 --> 0:22:07.321 of it had been found in a waffle, house dumpster 0:22:07.641 --> 0:22:11.361 or in other. Locations, again there's a lot we don't 0:22:11.361 --> 0:22:14.201 know about this, investigation since it is an, open unsolved, 0:22:14.281 --> 0:22:17.441 case but we can say there has been nothing publicly 0:22:17.481 --> 0:22:19.641 confirmed about any other remains being. 0:22:19.681 --> 0:22:21.801 Found another rumor. 0:22:21.561 --> 0:22:24.080 That went around a lot In april of twenty twenty 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.441 one After page's body was found was could she have 0:22:27.521 --> 0:22:30.721 been the victim of a serial. Killer during that, time 0:22:30.801 --> 0:22:33.721 there were a lot of posts on social media talking 0:22:33.721 --> 0:22:36.041 about how there was a serial killer operating In Hot 0:22:36.041 --> 0:22:39.201 springs and alleging that the police were either under some 0:22:39.321 --> 0:22:42.961 kind of a gag order or covering up. Information but 0:22:43.401 --> 0:22:47.201 is there any truth to these. Rumors One facebook post 0:22:47.201 --> 0:22:50.921 stated five dismembered bodies had been. Found another post had 0:22:50.961 --> 0:22:54.961 the headline five bodies chopped. Up but according to an 0:22:55.041 --> 0:22:58.641 article IN Usa today and other, sources police have stated 0:22:58.761 --> 0:22:59.561 there was no. 0:22:59.481 --> 0:23:00.841 Evidence to back up any of these. 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:05.401 Claims they have stated That page's case was a quote 0:23:05.961 --> 0:23:08.721 isolated incident involving one victim end. 0:23:08.801 --> 0:23:13.681 Quote my question, is how do the police know that that's. 0:23:13.761 --> 0:23:16.801 True do they have evidence pointing to the fact That 0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:21.761 page was targeted for a specific. Reason PolitiFact contacted The 0:23:21.801 --> 0:23:25.481 Hot Springs Police. Department the news outlet spoke To Corporal Patrick, 0:23:25.561 --> 0:23:28.921