Speaker 1: Raffie is the voice of some of the happiest songs
Speaker 1: of our generation, Babyga, So who is the Man behind
Speaker 1: Baby Bluga? Every human beings wants to feel respected. When
Speaker 1: we start with, all good things can grow from there.
Speaker 1: I'm Chris Garcia, comedian, new dad and host of Finding Raffie,
Speaker 1: a new podcast from My Heart Radio and Fatherly. Listen
Speaker 1: every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. I'm John Gonzalez, the host of
Speaker 1: s i s new podcast, Sports Illustrated Weekly. Sports Illustrated
Speaker 1: has delivered some of the best storytelling in sports for
Speaker 1: seventy years, and now that continues. On our show. Each
Speaker 1: week will dive deep into the best stories from around
Speaker 1: the sports world. Sports Illustrated Weekly is available every Wednesday
Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Subscribe now. Raf He is the
Speaker 1: voice of some of the happiest songs of our generation,
Speaker 1: Baby So Who is the Man behind Baby Bluga? Every
Speaker 1: human being wants to feel respected. When we start with,
Speaker 1: all good things can grow from there. I'm Chris Garcia, Comedian,
Speaker 1: new dad and host of Finding Raffie, a new podcast
Speaker 1: from my heart Radio and fatherly listen every Tuesday on
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody,
Speaker 1: Robert Evans here and I wanted to let you know.
Speaker 1: This is a compiletion episode. So every episode of the
Speaker 1: week that just happened is here in one convenient and
Speaker 1: with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to
Speaker 1: in a long stretch if you want. If you've been
Speaker 1: listening to the episodes every day this week, there's gonna
Speaker 1: be nothing new here for you, but you can make
Speaker 1: your own decisions. Wellcome to spook Oooky Week, a week
Speaker 1: where we are not really any spooky or honestly than
Speaker 1: the average things happening, because everything happening is is terrifying
Speaker 1: and like ghosts and ghoules are are a lot more fun. Anyway,
Speaker 1: hang up in this podcast, don't listen, Go watch Herbert
Speaker 1: West reanimat or have some fun um. But if you
Speaker 1: decide to keep listening to podcasts for some reason, we
Speaker 1: have a bunch of spooky content for you this week.
Speaker 1: How was that? How was that introduction? Sophie? Oh bad?
Speaker 1: All right, Garrison, get going do your thing? Yeah, my
Speaker 1: my thing. So yeah, we're doing. We're doing spooky spooky Week,
Speaker 1: which is very excited about. But yeah, every everyone ive
Speaker 1: told about spooky Week, They're like, oh, so it's just
Speaker 1: a regular week for for the show, Like, yeah, pretty much,
Speaker 1: it's more fun, but it is in a few ways.
Speaker 1: It is actually gonna be more fun because this the
Speaker 1: spook key spooky goddamn yes, spookoky mind bedding tales actually
Speaker 1: do have do have some more fun than just the
Speaker 1: solely depressing ones. I mean, this was this was the
Speaker 1: first theme week that we all agreed upon. This was
Speaker 1: the first like can we do something around spooky nous
Speaker 1: near Halloween? And everybody younestly said yes, yes, yes, this
Speaker 1: is the first theme week. Um, we have we we have.
Speaker 1: We have been promising Nut Week coming up. Eventually we're
Speaker 1: going to tease about things that made us nut or
Speaker 1: where we talk about the legumes mostly legumes. Okay, that's fair, Um,
Speaker 1: but anyway, we should we should have start off our first,
Speaker 1: our first spooky tale. Um, so I'm going I'm going
Speaker 1: to tell a very very spooky tale of a of
Speaker 1: an entire French town going going mad over the course
Speaker 1: of a single week. Yeah, probably probably with the help
Speaker 1: of psychoactive drugs and a certain three letter agency. You
Speaker 1: know what, I think we're going to get to do
Speaker 1: Garrison accent. You can't be racist against the French. They're
Speaker 1: like the British or Americans. I didn't get a new
Speaker 1: messages saying that your French accent was very racist, Tore.
Speaker 1: There is a certain number. It's like the Germans. There's
Speaker 1: a certain number of genocides after which people get to
Speaker 1: make fun of your country and it's not racist. And
Speaker 1: that number is, let's say three. Honestly, the worst part
Speaker 1: of this story is that we're probably doing critical support
Speaker 1: for France. I mean in a way. Well, honestly, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be kind of more critical support to the CIA
Speaker 1: by the end of this one. Um yeah, that's that
Speaker 1: is the most critical support can be. So anyway, our
Speaker 1: very spooky tail begins in ninet one in a small,
Speaker 1: charming French village called Pont Saint a Spray, which is
Speaker 1: how I'm gonna say that. Yeah, there you go. Um so,
Speaker 1: not much happened in this little picturesque, little little town
Speaker 1: on the south side of France. You know, Uh, on
Speaker 1: the day we start, it's just like a regular summer
Speaker 1: day people are going about their routine, going to their jobs,
Speaker 1: kids are playing in the street, enjoying some delicious freshly
Speaker 1: baked bread. Um. But suddenly strange things begin happening. Um.
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna start off with some of the more mild,
Speaker 1: mild mild effects here. So on in August, first dozens,
Speaker 1: then hundreds of people began first just complaining of nausea,
Speaker 1: uh you know, and some people with some like stomach
Speaker 1: and abdominable pain. They're coming up less often, less often. Noted,
Speaker 1: there was a few instances of like vomiting and diarrhea
Speaker 1: um only, but the represented people had diarrhea. That is
Speaker 1: that is a weirder, weirder thing. Yeah, that is on
Speaker 1: like a town wide basis three significant thirty Sorry, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a significant strain on the sewage. The people affected.
Speaker 1: It's just gonna be like a few hundred versus I
Speaker 1: was taking drugs with a group of friends. Third of
Speaker 1: them had diarrhea. I would say, we might need to
Speaker 1: go to a hospital that we have taken someone that
Speaker 1: perhaps what we got was tainted. There is there is Yeah,
Speaker 1: well we'll be talking about what actually what the actual
Speaker 1: drugs being used here are going to be, but that's
Speaker 1: something where that's not an uncommon side effect. But yeah, first,
Speaker 1: first nausea, a little a little bit of vomiting, stomach pains, cramping. Um.
Speaker 1: Hospitals began reporting people experiencing alternating warm and cold waves
Speaker 1: over their body. Uh. The British Medical Journal recalls abundant
Speaker 1: sweating and a disagreeable odor, which I'm guessing the odor
Speaker 1: is just because there's all those sting people in the
Speaker 1: same cramped hospital room in the summer. In the summer heats. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so anyway in their French so a lot of scargo sweats.
Speaker 1: I don't want to get more messages saying that I
Speaker 1: have to stopped to do it more. By the way,
Speaker 1: do we know that the diarrhea was the result of
Speaker 1: whatever substance or maybe it's just the wine ships again,
Speaker 1: we don't we there's no way to tell. So yeah.
Speaker 1: Patients began complaining about weird pains and pressure around their neck,
Speaker 1: which yeah, um. And one of the one of the
Speaker 1: most reported symptoms was in insomnia, in some cases lasting
Speaker 1: several days. Uh. Quoting the British Medical Journal, the first
Speaker 1: symptoms appeared after a latent period of six to forty
Speaker 1: eight hours. The digestive disorders quickly became worse, with burning
Speaker 1: sensations through the entire digestive tract. Some experienced sensations of
Speaker 1: burning at the anus. A state giddiness persisted. I mean,
Speaker 1: who's not giddy when your anus is burning? Am I? Right?
Speaker 1: I fear like like this is like this is like
Speaker 1: the like the clear side that there's like some some
Speaker 1: psychoactive job going on, because like your anus is burning
Speaker 1: and yet your very you are born. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: that sign from that what is that from a rejected
Speaker 1: by what? What? What's the cartoonist? Like my anus is bleeding,
Speaker 1: but like you're down, you know, you're down for it? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're you're John Millenny impression. No, no, no, it's it
Speaker 1: wasn't a John Linney impression. So far, that's just your
Speaker 1: poison millennial brain. Don Hertzfeld. Yeah, great artist, Yeah, great artist.
Speaker 1: So these pale and limp patients, still quoting the British
Speaker 1: Medical Journal, these pale and limp patients showed inconspicuous trembling
Speaker 1: of the extremities, and they complained of disorders of the
Speaker 1: visual accommodation and especially being unable to read. So this
Speaker 1: this is this is the more mild. This is the
Speaker 1: could one ar So this is for many people affected,
Speaker 1: this is where the symptoms stopped. After suffering for insomnia
Speaker 1: for a while, with you know, mild disorders of the
Speaker 1: visual accommodation um and you know, and the stomach pains
Speaker 1: and like weird like neck things, after they were able
Speaker 1: to sleep. That was the sign of their recovery. Is
Speaker 1: like the ability to sleep again. African insomnia war off.
Speaker 1: But in a in around fifty of the cases reported,
Speaker 1: the effects were much more intense. Um. I'm going to
Speaker 1: continue from from the medical journal first and then get
Speaker 1: into some of the more colorful reporting around the incident. Uh.
Speaker 1: Quoting the Medical journal again, Vivid visual hallucinations appeared, in
Speaker 1: particular themes of visions of animals and of flames. All
Speaker 1: of these visions were fleeting, invariable in many of the patients.
Speaker 1: They were followed by dreamy delirium. Yeah, that's that's about right.
Speaker 1: That's actually pretty good description of like l s A LSD.
Speaker 1: Those kind of like that. Movies always get it wrong
Speaker 1: because you're not usually not like you're not seeing some
Speaker 1: sort of like visual like cartoon world. It's it's these
Speaker 1: kind of like fleeting impressions of visions and things in
Speaker 1: the corner of your eyes. Yeah, it's a pretty good
Speaker 1: especially on lower like it is unclear what exactly they
Speaker 1: were on because then they definitely can be the more
Speaker 1: cartoon la. I mean, you can get full open eyed hallucination,
Speaker 1: like especially the shogun chemicals will do that that I
Speaker 1: don't get it so much with like LSD, L, S A,
Speaker 1: and L say, if you want to shoot yourself that
Speaker 1: is that is right some Hawaiian baby wood rows seats
Speaker 1: from home depot and have yourself a horrible right. So
Speaker 1: the delirium seems to be systematized with animal hallucinations and
Speaker 1: self accusation. It's weird, weird terms from them from self accusations. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's I think I think they're trying to get at
Speaker 1: ego death, but they don't have terms for it yet
Speaker 1: do that or that, Like sometimes you're hallucinating it like
Speaker 1: overcoming like guilt like oh I did this terrible thing,
Speaker 1: or yeah, yeah, everybody's angry at me or whatever, like
Speaker 1: continuing from the Medical journal, self accusation and and it
Speaker 1: was sometimes mystical or macabre in some cases terrifying visions
Speaker 1: were followed by fugus, which is an old um for
Speaker 1: like fugues. Says fugues. Yeah, it's pronounced fugue. It's it's
Speaker 1: like it's it's like, it's like extreme, it's extreme disassociation. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're kind of zombified a little bit. Yeah, and two
Speaker 1: and two patients threw themselves out the window. Um. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The delirium was of a confusal kind, which could be
Speaker 1: interpreted for some moments by a strong stimulation. Every attempt
Speaker 1: at restraint increased the agitation. Well, yeah, that's restraining. I've
Speaker 1: had to restrain a number of people and it does
Speaker 1: not calm anyone down, especially especially when you're tripping hard. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this sounds like a real, real bad time to do.
Speaker 1: In severe cases, muscular spasms appeared. The duration of these
Speaker 1: periods of delirium was varied. They lasted several hours, several
Speaker 1: hours and some patients and in others they persisted overnight.
Speaker 1: So that and then here it's it's we're gonna get
Speaker 1: a little bit darker and then we're gonna have more fun. Um.
Speaker 1: We observed four fatal cases, three men and one woman.
Speaker 1: Three of these people were old and in bad health.
Speaker 1: One of the men was only twenty five years old
Speaker 1: and had been in good health previously. They died in
Speaker 1: a muscular spasm in a state of cardiovascular collapse. I
Speaker 1: think this is probably mostly due to how the doctors
Speaker 1: were handling these patients. I mean, obviously your your blood pressure,
Speaker 1: want that can elevate when you're hallucinating. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it also has a lot to do with the
Speaker 1: way they were being handled. Yeah, you're right. Um, the
Speaker 1: disorder has developed more quickly in children, but also left
Speaker 1: them more quickly. An interesting feature some of the cases
Speaker 1: was that the delirium it was the first sign to
Speaker 1: be noted, So it depends people come up him up
Speaker 1: on different ways, or some of them first had a
Speaker 1: weird body feel like some of them first started just
Speaker 1: seeing stuff. Um. One other interesting tidbit that we're not
Speaker 1: going to spend much time talking about, but like around
Speaker 1: two weeks after this initial incident, some symptoms started to reappear,
Speaker 1: either through like a secondary poison egg or it was
Speaker 1: like some kind of like acid flashback. Yeah, it must,
Speaker 1: it must, because I've done a buckload to ASCID. I've
Speaker 1: never had a flashback. Um, I did at one point
Speaker 1: I mean, I have like done some damage and so
Speaker 1: I have permanent tracers. But it's not like my guess
Speaker 1: is they got I think the idea that there are
Speaker 1: like acid flashbacks that are vivid hallucinations has been pretty
Speaker 1: heavily debunked. My guesses they got redosed. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I might fight you good. It's like it could be
Speaker 1: that it was traumatic enough that like they're having they're
Speaker 1: dealing with PTSD and kind of that that's what's happening.
Speaker 1: But I don't know, And I think I definitely have
Speaker 1: seen enough reports that would see acid flashbacks definitely actually
Speaker 1: being a thing in some cases, especially in the early
Speaker 1: days of studying these types of rugs and like the sixties,
Speaker 1: like the CIA reported a lot of stuff around acid
Speaker 1: flashbacks around the people that they tortured. But I guess
Speaker 1: it's it's tied to torture. That couldn't be PTSD. Stuff
Speaker 1: could be PTSD. It's also, I mean, one thing you
Speaker 1: have to know, and I don't know what kind of
Speaker 1: dose these people were getting. With the CIA, with dosed people,
Speaker 1: they were sometimes giving people doses people do not take
Speaker 1: like you do not take that much like hundreds or
Speaker 1: thousands or millions of yeah, ridiculous, irresponsible doses. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: now now we're going to get to some of the
Speaker 1: some of the more fun descriptions here, which we can
Speaker 1: actually kind of like, based on our experiences, can actually
Speaker 1: kind of see like what was actually going on in
Speaker 1: these people's heads. Um, So basically we had at least
Speaker 1: dozens and dozens of people tripping very very hard. Um.
Speaker 1: The local postman was doing his rounds on his bicycle
Speaker 1: when he was suddenly overwhelmed by nausea and wild hallucinations.
Speaker 1: Quoting him, it was terrible. I had the sense, I
Speaker 1: had the sensation of shrinking and shrinking, and the fire
Speaker 1: and the serpents coiling around by arms. Yeah, that guy
Speaker 1: had some other stuff going. Yeah, because the very first
Speaker 1: acid trip was on a bicycle when Heinrich Kaufman like
Speaker 1: made it and dosed himself. He started coming up. I
Speaker 1: believe it was an Amsterdam like riding his bicycle, which
Speaker 1: is like, well, this is lovely, Yeah, I've made something cool.
Speaker 1: Why was the postman riding a bicycle to deliver packages?
Speaker 1: And because because we do not have vis It's fifties,
Speaker 1: it's not there to France, I mean that I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: pot So. Yeah, the mailman fell off his bike and
Speaker 1: was taken to the taking to a hospital in a
Speaker 1: nearby town. He was putting a straight jacket, and he
Speaker 1: shared a room with three teenagers who were also tripping,
Speaker 1: and the teenagers were changed to their beds to keep
Speaker 1: them under control. Yeah, that's that's how it sounds horrible.
Speaker 1: Flashbacks to this, to being chained to a bed tripping. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so bad. Some of my friends trying to get
Speaker 1: out the window. They were thrashing wildly, screaming in the
Speaker 1: sound of the metal beds and jumping up and down.
Speaker 1: The noise was terrible. I would prefer I would prefer
Speaker 1: to die then go through that again. This sounds like
Speaker 1: like the worst acid trip you could go. That sounds
Speaker 1: like about the worst way you could have a trip go.
Speaker 1: It sounds awful. So back in the French town, a
Speaker 1: little girl screamed as she was being chased by man
Speaker 1: eating tigers. A woman sobbed about how her children had
Speaker 1: been ground into sausages. Oh great, and specific a large
Speaker 1: men founded off terrific beasts by smashing its furniture and
Speaker 1: using the wood as weapons. Good for you, buddy, good
Speaker 1: for you. Husband and wife right around chasing each other
Speaker 1: with nys. Again, probably something else going on there. My
Speaker 1: guesses we're not just talking the acid and that because
Speaker 1: I have been on acid a lot around knives and
Speaker 1: other weapons. I've never chased some money. I've never chased
Speaker 1: someone around with knives like the couple who was on
Speaker 1: the verge of a knife chick. I think, I think,
Speaker 1: I think the important part here is that like in
Speaker 1: this French town, like acid wasn't a thing yet, Like
Speaker 1: like like lucinogenic drugs weren't a thing, right, even like
Speaker 1: even like mushrooms weren't popular around this time, no one
Speaker 1: knew what what the hell was going on. Like they
Speaker 1: just think that they're just basically losing their minds, like
Speaker 1: they're like there's there's no other explanation for what's happening
Speaker 1: to them. And let's just say that the most shocking
Speaker 1: thing that has come out so far as that when
Speaker 1: Robert was on acid, he wasn't chasing people with knives.
Speaker 1: That seems like it's honest, Like, depending on your acid trip,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't want to chase someone with a knife. Like,
Speaker 1: it's not it's not the kind of we would we
Speaker 1: would like during this, Yeah, we would. We would take
Speaker 1: a bunch of drugs and grab my A K forty
Speaker 1: seven and hike out into the woods and we would
Speaker 1: shoot down a fir tree and we would drag it
Speaker 1: back to a clearing and we would bury it standing up,
Speaker 1: and we would drape it in pig intestines and put
Speaker 1: a pig's heart on it, and when we cover it
Speaker 1: in gasoline and lighted with firecrackers and dance around it
Speaker 1: like the pagans of old. But there was nothing aggressive
Speaker 1: about no. You you you very rarely would want to
Speaker 1: hurt somebody on acid. And my experience like you generally
Speaker 1: generally are at least like way more compassionate in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways. Um, But if you have no idea
Speaker 1: what acid is and you're just you're in the nineteen
Speaker 1: fifties and you're losing your mind and you're seeing weird
Speaker 1: things that, Yeah, I can see how this would maybe
Speaker 1: cause some other types of behavior. You just think that
Speaker 1: because is angry at you, like like like it's like
Speaker 1: they're not they're not dosing themselves either, like they're being
Speaker 1: dosed rights like they don't. It's very different where like
Speaker 1: you're deciding to go with a trip versus this is
Speaker 1: happening to you when you have no decision. I think
Speaker 1: for basically anyone in this position, the logical assumption would be, oh,
Speaker 1: the devil has taken over our town and our minds
Speaker 1: have we have been infested with demons. Like that's what
Speaker 1: else are you going to assume? You're not gonna be like, Oh,
Speaker 1: this drug that's just barely been invented and that nobody
Speaker 1: really knows about yet except are weird nerds. It must
Speaker 1: be some version of that that I've taken accidentally. No,
Speaker 1: you're going to do in your blood. So one interesting tid.
Speaker 1: But before we before we go and break, um, even
Speaker 1: some of the local animals had been affected by whatever
Speaker 1: poison in the town. Um there there was there was
Speaker 1: one dog in particular that kept chewing on rocks until
Speaker 1: its teeth chipped away like this, And and ducks were
Speaker 1: behaving very odd. Um it's described it. They were. They
Speaker 1: were walking around erect and upright, like penguins in a line.
Speaker 1: And they're just like weird, weird behavior from ducks I've
Speaker 1: heard so far that kind of makes me want to
Speaker 1: dose our ducks. Scares. We are not We're not wasting
Speaker 1: acid on the ducks a lot. I mean, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of things you could give ducks. We're not. We're
Speaker 1: not giving ducks assets. That's not a thing about giving
Speaker 1: ducks drugs. Is they're all monsters. That is true. They
Speaker 1: are monsters and rapists, every one of them. Yeah, ducks.
Speaker 1: So anyway, re occurring theme was that people were running
Speaker 1: around wildly and being very fearful of like monstery animals
Speaker 1: and encroaching flames. Um, it sounds like the ducks are
Speaker 1: having a good time doing their ministry of silly walk shit. Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what all these people are bummed about.
Speaker 1: This is rad okay. So when when you first said that,
Speaker 1: I heard dogs and I was like, that is the
Speaker 1: most terrible ever heard ducks. It's like ducks standing like
Speaker 1: very upright, like penguins walking around in the line. I
Speaker 1: think ducks might enjoy it. I think dogs are a
Speaker 1: little too aware of what's going on. Dog. The stone
Speaker 1: thing was about the dog, Yeah with the dog. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just don't know that the dogs enjoy because, like
Speaker 1: I've seen dogs accidentally eat large amounts of pot and
Speaker 1: whatnot and they get weird. They they they're they're pretty scared.
Speaker 1: They're pretty're pretty scared. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know what
Speaker 1: is also very spooky? Yeah, capitalism and all of these
Speaker 1: spooky advertising to sell things. Advertisements are also a form
Speaker 1: of mind control. Speaking of the CIA in the fifties anyway,
Speaker 1: profoundly damaging. We are back from the spooky advertised yeah anyway. Um. So,
Speaker 1: I think another another reoccurring factor for why a lot
Speaker 1: of these people have very similar types of experiences around
Speaker 1: like snakes, um, which we're talking about later, and like flames,
Speaker 1: is like with this many people tripping and no one
Speaker 1: knows what tripping is. I think it's really easy for
Speaker 1: an idea or a fear to spread from one person
Speaker 1: to another while they're tripping. Um. With like this many people,
Speaker 1: I think if someone says something, it's going to start
Speaker 1: happening to someone else, and it's kind of kind of
Speaker 1: this like cascading effect where they're all developed these very
Speaker 1: similar fear is because it's almost like being spread like
Speaker 1: an infection. Um. So there was there was a one
Speaker 1: man convinced that red snakes were devouring his brain and
Speaker 1: he jumped out a window. Oh did he live to this?
Speaker 1: He did live? Um? I'm guessing a lot of these
Speaker 1: It's it's like France in the fifties, So I'm guessing
Speaker 1: most of these buildings are not super They're not super
Speaker 1: high up. No, No, you're like falling a foot or two.
Speaker 1: Although here we have another one. Another mad reportedly left
Speaker 1: for a window yelling, look, everyone, I'm a dragonfly. The
Speaker 1: men broke. The men broke both legs, but he stood
Speaker 1: up and continued running. Rad king Sigma stigma behavior absolute sigma.
Speaker 1: This is a new kind of man. Just drapped. Look everyone,
Speaker 1: I have a dragonfly, breaks both legs to keeps running.
Speaker 1: Based on the information you've provided us, I can't say
Speaker 1: he's not a dragon. No, he is an absolute, absolute king.
Speaker 1: Good for I hope he had a great life. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Another one saw his heart escape through his feet and
Speaker 1: beseeched the doctor to try to put it back into place.
Speaker 1: You don't want to have that happen. That doesn't sound fun.
Speaker 1: You want to keep that somewhere around the middle of
Speaker 1: your body. Someone sprinted down the lane, claiming that he
Speaker 1: was being chased by bandits with donkey ears. A nearby river.
Speaker 1: A man was convinced that he was a circus tight
Speaker 1: rope walker and attempted to balance his way across the
Speaker 1: cables of a suspension bridge. No, it doesn't say. The
Speaker 1: report does not tell you. He's not in the death report.
Speaker 1: Yeah he's. And therefore another another person did try to
Speaker 1: die in the river. He tried to jump into the river,
Speaker 1: only to be saved by his friends. And he was screaming,
Speaker 1: I am dead, I am dead, and my head is
Speaker 1: made of copper, and I have snakes in my stomach
Speaker 1: and they are burning me. It's such a weird description
Speaker 1: of like tripping and saying like my head is made
Speaker 1: of copper. I'm trying to think of what was going on, what,
Speaker 1: like what what series of events did did he spiral
Speaker 1: down in his brain to have that sentence I did?
Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure. It's it's it's it's definitely. I
Speaker 1: can definitely see it happening. I just I just I'm
Speaker 1: trying to think, like we're exactly what what happened to
Speaker 1: get to that point. It's really really interesting. I think
Speaker 1: some of these are hard because again it's like these
Speaker 1: people just think literally think they're going insane or that
Speaker 1: like this stuff is just actually happening to them, Like
Speaker 1: you were like when when you're tripping on acid, you
Speaker 1: already kind of have the feeling that there is moments
Speaker 1: where you feel like this is like this is like
Speaker 1: never gonna end, even though even though you know you
Speaker 1: know you're on acid. These people don't know that, right,
Speaker 1: Like these people don't have the reascernce to like, no,
Speaker 1: I took acid, I'm on a drug. This is gonna
Speaker 1: be over. They think this is gonna last forever, right
Speaker 1: Like they think this this is just the world now,
Speaker 1: like this is just one of those Anton Wilson, who
Speaker 1: is a thinker I enjoy a lot, writes a lot
Speaker 1: about how to calm people down when they've taken too much,
Speaker 1: and most of his advices around talking about like, okay,
Speaker 1: well how long ago did you take it? Hey, well
Speaker 1: that the good news is that this is going to
Speaker 1: end here you know it's only gonna last this long,
Speaker 1: like you're you're through this point. Oh, this is the
Speaker 1: this is the second hour, freakies, and by the third
Speaker 1: hour you'll be fine again and enjoying it. Like it's
Speaker 1: all about making keeping in people's minds like this is
Speaker 1: going to pass. So yeah, you're right, Like this is
Speaker 1: the fucking worst way to take drugs. Alright, So local
Speaker 1: newspapers uh and also like in national newspapers described described
Speaker 1: this as a among the stricken delirium rose patients thrash
Speaker 1: wildly on their beds, screaming that red flowers were blossoming
Speaker 1: from their bodies, people throwing themselves some rooftops, men and
Speaker 1: women throwing their clothes off and running in the streets naked,
Speaker 1: and children complaining their stomachs were infested with coils and snakes.
Speaker 1: Which I mean, half of that sounds like, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: like a normal good time just running around the streets
Speaker 1: naked on acid. Other I was like, yeah, that that
Speaker 1: doesn't seem pleasant with coils and snakes in your stomach,
Speaker 1: but also like flowers blossoming fund your body. I can,
Speaker 1: I can, I can understand that kind of sensation. Um,
Speaker 1: but like it definitely definitely wasn't all horrible and the
Speaker 1: night like nightmare we were. We already mentioned the giddy
Speaker 1: people with burning anuses, um, but for like the full
Speaker 1: and tripping folks. According to the New York Times, there's
Speaker 1: reports of people like hearing heavenly choruses and seeing you know,
Speaker 1: bright colors the world look beautiful to them. Apparently the
Speaker 1: head of the farming co op wrote hundreds of pages
Speaker 1: of like enlightened tripping poetry. That that guy must be
Speaker 1: sick as ship because knowing nothing, he starts tripping. Not
Speaker 1: knowing he's tripping. It's just like time to make some
Speaker 1: fucking art. You know what, this head state is good
Speaker 1: for writing some ship. He just went to his cabinets
Speaker 1: wrote poetry. That's fucking awesome. That's a guy. I'll bet
Speaker 1: he handled just everything that life through it. Well, Like
Speaker 1: that says a lot about you when you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: demons have infiltrated my brain. Yes, I'm gonna hang out
Speaker 1: in my cabin and write some poems hundreds of pages. Wow,
Speaker 1: like I could. I can hardly write ship on acid.
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine trying to write poetry. I've done a
Speaker 1: lot of creative stuff on acid. Creative stuff. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: just feel like specifically, like reading and typing can can
Speaker 1: be hard at certain points. You know, if if you're
Speaker 1: like coming down that it can be easier. But like
Speaker 1: a good for like writing, it's good for ideas that
Speaker 1: you later can flesh out into writing. But yeah, so unfortunately,
Speaker 1: you know, because this was you know, no one who
Speaker 1: was going on. Many people were taken to local asylums
Speaker 1: in straight jackets and tied onto beds, making things undoubtedly
Speaker 1: worse for people tripping. It's one of those things I
Speaker 1: can't even be angry at them because like they don't
Speaker 1: know what's going you know, like you no idea what's
Speaker 1: going on the whole, Like every attemptant restraint increase the
Speaker 1: agitation line. It's like horrifying from the concept of like
Speaker 1: you're tripping, you do you do? You don't know what's
Speaker 1: going on, and people are tying you down to beds,
Speaker 1: making you feel like you're even more stuck in this
Speaker 1: permanent set of delirium. It's just it's just it is
Speaker 1: the worst nightmare. Yeah, if this is horrible, The mayor
Speaker 1: of the town said, like, I've seen healthy men and
Speaker 1: women suddenly become terrorized, ripping in their bed sheets, hiding
Speaker 1: themselves beneath their blankets to escape their hallucinations. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's if you, if you, if you don't know
Speaker 1: what's going on, pretty pretty pretty scary, except for the
Speaker 1: poetry guy. Good for him, yeah, good for him. Um yeah, so,
Speaker 1: but by by the time the effects had subsided for
Speaker 1: everyone affected, which is around like a few days after
Speaker 1: the initial reported like nausea, like you know, not it
Speaker 1: didn't affect everyone at the same time. You know, some
Speaker 1: people got dosed later on. It's it's it's unclear what
Speaker 1: exactly because it's of the fifties, we didn't have a
Speaker 1: great idea of the exact timeline of events of like
Speaker 1: when the first effects were felt and like how all
Speaker 1: the was spaced out. But this whole instant arrassed lasted
Speaker 1: around like a few days for like everyone, everyone totaled. UM.
Speaker 1: It was supported that anywhere between like three hundred and
Speaker 1: five hundred people had felt the effects UM, you know,
Speaker 1: around fifty feeling very very extreme like open i like
Speaker 1: hallucinations of objects that aren't even there, like like very
Speaker 1: extreme hallucinations. UM. And and four people did die in
Speaker 1: connection to the poisoning UM at least where people died.
Speaker 1: It's again it's unclear for exact numbers for a lot
Speaker 1: of this stuff. UM. An investigation into the sudden outbreak
Speaker 1: of the madness was probably underway. Town officials wanted to
Speaker 1: get to the bottom of this as quickly as possible.
Speaker 1: Do you want to figure out what was happening? Um,
Speaker 1: and the blame fell onto a single batch of bread,
Speaker 1: so among the common denominator among those affected that they
Speaker 1: all allegedly consumed bread from one specific baker. He was
Speaker 1: accused of using er got contaminated rye flower, and he
Speaker 1: was arrested and a temporarily imprisoned um. Also, a nearby
Speaker 1: miller that he got the flower from was also arrested
Speaker 1: and given some of the blame um. The funny part
Speaker 1: is that around this time, the French government had a
Speaker 1: very top down grain distribution system that originally controlled everything
Speaker 1: about where the grains were milled, where they were sent,
Speaker 1: and what bakers could use which flower, so bakers had
Speaker 1: no choice and what type of flower to use or
Speaker 1: what kind of a grain they could use some baking.
Speaker 1: It was all decided by other people because France bread
Speaker 1: is like real big deal and pretty pretty pretty important. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for the record, just like air got poisoning. There are
Speaker 1: a lot of cases of like different like dancing manias
Speaker 1: and whatnot in like the medieval in medieval Europe, or
Speaker 1: like whole towns will be well, everyone will start like
Speaker 1: dancing or like hallucinating, and you know they always came
Speaker 1: down as like these people assumed apocryphal of stories about
Speaker 1: like demon possessions or whatnot. And now a lot of
Speaker 1: the suspicion is like, oh yeah, some air god gotten No,
Speaker 1: yeah it was. It was just poisoning. It seems like
Speaker 1: one of the rougher trips to go on. It's not
Speaker 1: super clean, it's no. I mean I've done L s A,
Speaker 1: which I think is similar and similar to their tripp
Speaker 1: to means that are like really rough in it's I
Speaker 1: would not don't don't do L s A. No. Hawaiian
Speaker 1: baby wood roase seeds for if you're going to take
Speaker 1: L s A, than actually like synthesizing, which is fel um.
Speaker 1: But you can just buy Hawaiian baby wood roase seeds
Speaker 1: and eat them and you will have maybe the worst
Speaker 1: trip of your life. Great advice from the from the
Speaker 1: pod um. So yeah, on on on on the on
Speaker 1: the On the rye and ergot topic, the past growing
Speaker 1: season was especially wet and orgot fun guy did grow
Speaker 1: across the country's rye fields. Um, but the amount of
Speaker 1: ergot on the rye and the amount of rye used
Speaker 1: in baking was thought to not be enough to induce
Speaker 1: any any type of poisoning. Um. In fact that the
Speaker 1: last time or like orgot poisoning had struck France was
Speaker 1: back in was back in eighteen sixteen, so almost like
Speaker 1: a century and a half before this incident, and a
Speaker 1: century if it's the fifties, right, litt less than a century. No,
Speaker 1: So the last instant was eighteen sixteen. This was nine no, no,
Speaker 1: a century and a half ago. Um. And no other
Speaker 1: towns anything, and no other part of France was affected
Speaker 1: by anything similar to this. Um. So the ur got
Speaker 1: thing is kind of iffy um it. But the explanation
Speaker 1: was the only thing that doctors investigators could come to
Speaker 1: would do, like you know, the their their limited knowledge
Speaker 1: around brain altering substances, and just pressure from town officials
Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of this so that they
Speaker 1: had something to blame and people could move on. Um.
Speaker 1: But you know, as a result, not much evidence really
Speaker 1: backs up there backs up there got claim, and a
Speaker 1: lot of experts today kind of deemon bunk um it
Speaker 1: doesn't There's and and there's a bunch of like, um,
Speaker 1: there's this thing hike on that the Greeks would take
Speaker 1: that was like this Greek collucinatory thing that they think
Speaker 1: it was because they were putting grain and wine and
Speaker 1: it might have been air got poisoned, but also like
Speaker 1: people enjoyed it, and so there's a lot of debate
Speaker 1: over whether or not it could have been ergot But
Speaker 1: I don't know, Um, I don't know what else is
Speaker 1: There are other other theories about what it might Boy
Speaker 1: is it the CIA? Where can they get to it? So, yeah,
Speaker 1: it doesn't really make much sense that the high amounts
Speaker 1: of urgot rye would only be in one batch of
Speaker 1: grain used in a single batch of bread from just
Speaker 1: one bakery in one small town. Doesn't doesn't really make sense. Um.
Speaker 1: Other explanations um that people have come to includes like
Speaker 1: mercury poisoning and overuse of other fungicides. These have been
Speaker 1: mostly disproven that seem like mercury poisoning. No, but there
Speaker 1: is a guy who likes to drink some mercury, you know, boy.
Speaker 1: So yeah, So there's a lot of other theories around,
Speaker 1: like fungic sides being used, but those have been kind
Speaker 1: of disproved by some people, but others still a point
Speaker 1: to them as possible explanations. But but there is one
Speaker 1: other theory that we will focus on that features two
Speaker 1: of my favorite things uh LSD and the nineteen fifties
Speaker 1: CIA because if you're gonna pick a c I A,
Speaker 1: they had the most fun. They had the most right,
Speaker 1: Like you know who else has a lot of fun?
Speaker 1: Garrison who is also the nineteen fifties c i A
Speaker 1: whom our sponsors. Oh really gonna happen here is sponsored
Speaker 1: only by the fifties c i A. Only the one
Speaker 1: from the fifties. Yeah, when you order any of our
Speaker 1: product products, they will come to your house and inject
Speaker 1: you with seven thousand hits of LSD. Hey free, Hey,
Speaker 1: that is that sounds like a great deal. Honestly, you're
Speaker 1: saving a lot of money. You are saying that that
Speaker 1: is a lot of free a lot of acid for
Speaker 1: the amount of money you're spending that you won't do
Speaker 1: more acid, that's for sure. You that that's acid for life.
Speaker 1: You do it again? Yeah, you might, you probably, You
Speaker 1: won't have to do it, you won't. You want to
Speaker 1: do any expenses ever again. Yeah, you'll survive. You'll just
Speaker 1: be a very different person by the end of the Yeah,
Speaker 1: you you won't survive your body with it. At the
Speaker 1: end of that someone else will wake up. So I
Speaker 1: speaking of taking up here as a products so nineteen
Speaker 1: fifties c I A UM wild time in two US
Speaker 1: and nine. Hank P. Albarelli is an an American writer
Speaker 1: and journalist released a book called A Terrible Mistake, which
Speaker 1: focuses on the suspicious death of a CIA scientist named
Speaker 1: Frank Olson, who worked on the CIA mind control experiments
Speaker 1: during the late forties and early fifties. While researching the book,
Speaker 1: Albarelli claims to have come across a number of old
Speaker 1: CIA and White House documents referencing the Pont Saint de
Speaker 1: Sprite incident, and he claims that the village was the
Speaker 1: target of a CIA experiment on the mass effects of
Speaker 1: LSD and that around the time that Frank Olsen wanted
Speaker 1: to sever his ties with the Army and CIA, Frank
Speaker 1: started talking about his participation in the experiment, which may
Speaker 1: have led to the government off in Olson. So I
Speaker 1: know that is a lot and it is slightly more
Speaker 1: than justice speculation. We're going to get into the evidence
Speaker 1: here shortly, UM, but by now it's pretty well known
Speaker 1: that throughout the forties, fifties, and sixties, both the U. S.
Speaker 1: Army and the CIA tried to use hallucinoge hallucinogenic drugs
Speaker 1: such as LSD as both an offensive weapon and as
Speaker 1: a way to make like psychic super soldiers. Programs like
Speaker 1: mk Ultra and k Naomi Project Bluebird, Project Artichoke, UM,
Speaker 1: Lots of lots of these things were trying to find
Speaker 1: different ways of using LSD for like offensive and defensive means. UM.
Speaker 1: Some of the interest was promoted by was was prompted
Speaker 1: by reports of the Soviet Union doing experiments with drugs
Speaker 1: around the same time. Also stuff around like you know,
Speaker 1: hYP like like like like psychic powers and hypno says.
Speaker 1: This was very popular around this time for for lots
Speaker 1: of different intelligence agencies. UM. But so Albert Ellie uncovered
Speaker 1: report from nineteen forty nine by the director of the
Speaker 1: Edwood Arsenal which many which which was where many US
Speaker 1: government LSD experiments were carried out, and this report stated
Speaker 1: that the Army should do everything, everything is post everything,
Speaker 1: everything possible to launch so called field experiments using this drug.
Speaker 1: And later in his to US A nine book a
Speaker 1: Really claims that he found references to a government document
Speaker 1: with the label rett SPRI and f Olsen files s
Speaker 1: O SPAN slash France Operation File inclusive Olsen intel files.
Speaker 1: Hand Carrie to Bellan, tell him to see to it
Speaker 1: that these are buried. Um, this document does exist like
Speaker 1: we we we like we we we we we do
Speaker 1: have this label on on this document um, but like
Speaker 1: the actual contents of the documents are are gone. But
Speaker 1: this is this is this is this is just a
Speaker 1: label that is being referenced asle. So the document label
Speaker 1: references Frank Olson and David Bellan. So. Bellan was the
Speaker 1: executive director of the Rockefeller Commission, created by the White
Speaker 1: House in the mid seventies to investigate abuses carried out
Speaker 1: worldwide by the Central Intelligence Agency. So Albrely believes that
Speaker 1: the that the French town lst incident um, which is
Speaker 1: like the pont Stre which is the name of the town,
Speaker 1: and the f Olson files mentioned in the document would
Speaker 1: definitely show that if the document hadn't been buried as
Speaker 1: it was said in the in the label the CIA,
Speaker 1: it would show that the CIA was experimenting on the
Speaker 1: townspeople by dosing them with what he thinks was lsd UM.
Speaker 1: Now there is also a bit more to it than that. Um.
Speaker 1: Using Foya's he got ahold of another CIA document, a
Speaker 1: two page report from nine Team fifty four detailing a
Speaker 1: conversation between a CIA agent and a representative of the
Speaker 1: San DAWs Chemical Company. So this the Sandas base was
Speaker 1: the place where Albert Hoffman invented LSD in night Um
Speaker 1: and it was it was it was only a few
Speaker 1: hundred kilometers away from pont St Ausprie, the town where
Speaker 1: this happened, So the chemical company was actually pretty pretty
Speaker 1: close relatively to like europe Um and it was also
Speaker 1: the only place where LSD was being made at the time.
Speaker 1: And they were providing both the Army and the CIA
Speaker 1: with a lot of a lot of acid. But you
Speaker 1: mean they're also giving it like they're also giving it
Speaker 1: to universities. They gave lots to Timothy Laria initially they were.
Speaker 1: They were, and a lot to tim Larry they were.
Speaker 1: They were giving a g out to a lot of
Speaker 1: different universities and people, but including the US government. So
Speaker 1: the c I A the CIA agent wrote um in
Speaker 1: this report that was like he was detailing a dinner
Speaker 1: he had with this representative of the chemical company, and
Speaker 1: he reported that after having several drinks, the scientists started
Speaker 1: talking about the pomp St Desprite incident. The send off official,
Speaker 1: burned out the pomt st a spirit secret was that
Speaker 1: it was not the bread at all. Continued to send
Speaker 1: off official for weeks. The French tied up our laboratories
Speaker 1: with analysis of the bread. It was not the grain ergot,
Speaker 1: It was a die ethyl laminated Sorry it's it's the
Speaker 1: last part of the LSD. Yeah, the die ethel lemonide
Speaker 1: like compound. So yeah, the surgic diethyl acid is what
Speaker 1: LSD stands for. So yeah, he the side just said
Speaker 1: that it was. It was like it was like basically
Speaker 1: an LSD like compound. Um, So that's that was the
Speaker 1: that was report or to detail like a dinner that
Speaker 1: a CIA agent had with this scientist um, and that
Speaker 1: document was uncovered that it was from like the fifties.
Speaker 1: Now this this, this next part has a little bit
Speaker 1: less proof to it because there's no documents backing this up.
Speaker 1: But al Brelli also claims that Dirk is digging too forward.
Speaker 1: CIA researchers reached out to him and revealed that revealed
Speaker 1: some details of some possible details of the method of
Speaker 1: the poisoning. They told him that the village was subjected
Speaker 1: to an air blitz of pulverized LSD. I'm sorry, that's
Speaker 1: fucking based so to force the people taking the substance
Speaker 1: through the air. According to the researchers, this manner of
Speaker 1: just of this manner of distribution proved mostly unsuccessful, um,
Speaker 1: forcing the CIA to move onto phase two, which was
Speaker 1: contaminating local food. So apparently the if the if if
Speaker 1: the air blitz was a thing, it didn't work super well. Um.
Speaker 1: Although actually about to have Sophie Bias a plane. We
Speaker 1: will talk about this later, but um, the c A
Speaker 1: did do more air blitzing um of of acid in
Speaker 1: New York City. Actually, they would ride around in cars
Speaker 1: um in like poorer and poorer more like multicultural areas, UM,
Speaker 1: shooting LSD out of the back of the car to
Speaker 1: see what would happen if, I mean take out the racism.
Speaker 1: And that really is a dream job, just driving around
Speaker 1: cities air dosing people with acid and random smoking cigarettes.
Speaker 1: Probably so with the conclusion drawn that it was one
Speaker 1: of the town's bakeries being the source of the poisoning,
Speaker 1: Albrel says it was possible that LSD was put in
Speaker 1: or onto the bread um. So yeah, and also lots
Speaker 1: of the scientists lots of the scientists dispatched to investigate
Speaker 1: the poisoning after it took place, where actually from the
Speaker 1: Sandals Chemical Company me. UM. They studied the situation for
Speaker 1: like two or three weeks UM and gave the explanation
Speaker 1: that would later be kind of disproven, uh, that it
Speaker 1: was got poisoning, which they they told the town officials
Speaker 1: and the British medical journal. Um what what, What no
Speaker 1: one knew at the time was that one the existence
Speaker 1: of LSD in the first place, UM, and two that
Speaker 1: San DAWs was the company making it and giving these
Speaker 1: drugs to the U. S. Army and to the CIA. UM.
Speaker 1: And apparently apparently Albert Hoffman himself went to the town
Speaker 1: to investigate this incident. UM. So yeah. And one last
Speaker 1: thing on like the physical evidence side of things UM.
Speaker 1: Albarelli also found an undated White House document that appeared
Speaker 1: to be part of a larger file that had been
Speaker 1: sent to members of the Rockefeller Commission, containing the names
Speaker 1: of two French nationals who had been secretly employed about
Speaker 1: the CIA and made direct references to the quote pont
Speaker 1: Saint Sprit incident UM. Also it was linked the document
Speaker 1: linked former CIA biological warfare expert and the chief of
Speaker 1: the Fort Derrick's Special Operations to vision. So those are
Speaker 1: all places that they were experiencing with this similar kind
Speaker 1: of thing. Um we we we have mentioned the Rockefeller
Speaker 1: Commission a few times now for remember the names, uh,
Speaker 1: Frank Olsen, the guy one of the CIA researchers on LSD,
Speaker 1: and David Bellan. Where they were they were they were
Speaker 1: on the label of that missing document. So but Bellin
Speaker 1: was the executive director of the White House Commission to
Speaker 1: investigate the CIA's abuses and crimes, which was called the
Speaker 1: Rockefeller Commission. It was formed by President Ford in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy five to investigate abuses and other activities by the
Speaker 1: CIA and a few other intelligence agencies that were operating
Speaker 1: within the States. Um. So, the Rockefeller Commission revealed not
Speaker 1: only like the reason why we know but m Kaeltro
Speaker 1: was because the Rockefeller Commission. This is this is how
Speaker 1: we know this was a thing. Um. So it not
Speaker 1: only revealed stuff about like programs around m k Ultra,
Speaker 1: but also revealed the details of the CIA dosing their
Speaker 1: own scientist, Frank Olsen with LSD and possibly killing him.
Speaker 1: Um there's also like there's like a Netflix series about
Speaker 1: this called Would Work and Haven't. I haven't actually watched yet,
Speaker 1: so I don't know how good or accurate it is,
Speaker 1: but they did. They did make a series a few
Speaker 1: years ago about the death of Frank Olson Um and
Speaker 1: all of the weirds get yourself, surrounding both his job
Speaker 1: and and and and and his death. Um. We do
Speaker 1: love the CIA, folks. So the The commission also concluded
Speaker 1: that the head of the CIA's LSD program, doctor Sydney
Speaker 1: ghost Leap, destroyed all of the drug programs records in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three to hide the details of possibly illegal actions,
Speaker 1: and he was personally involved in the torture of Frank
Speaker 1: Olsen Um. Twenty years after Mr Olsen's death and ten
Speaker 1: years after the elistic experiments were halted, a doctor Godlieb
Speaker 1: ordered the destruction of all the records of the program,
Speaker 1: including a total of one hundred and fifty two separate files.
Speaker 1: This came shortly after other reports that that that records
Speaker 1: were being destroyed by Richard helms That, the then Director
Speaker 1: of Central Intelligence. So it's undoubtedly true that the CIA
Speaker 1: was up to up to some ship involving les D
Speaker 1: around around the exact time period of this French Town incident. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's certainly not like you're not coming out of nowhere
Speaker 1: suggesting the CIA may have dosed all these people, but
Speaker 1: they set it to a bunch of folks. If they
Speaker 1: didn't do it here, they've done similar ship. And it's
Speaker 1: also it's also worth mentioning at this point that like
Speaker 1: this is like the point where the CIA is also
Speaker 1: running this like enormous heroin network out of France, as
Speaker 1: like if they basically basically have this whole they have
Speaker 1: this deal with the French where they're like, okay, so
Speaker 1: the French mob can like basically move all the heroin
Speaker 1: they want in exchange they'll like stop the communists and
Speaker 1: taking control of the point of Marseillas. And so this
Speaker 1: is this is all also going on like at the
Speaker 1: same time that they're doing the LSD stuff. It's great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so's there's some storians that think the LSD theories not
Speaker 1: hold enough water. Um Stephen Kaplan, it's a US historian
Speaker 1: specializing in the French food history and the author of
Speaker 1: the two book Cursed Bread, which follows this incident. Um
Speaker 1: He says that he is I have numerous objections to
Speaker 1: this whole tree evidence that this that this against the CIA.
Speaker 1: First of all, it's clinically incoherent. LSD takes effects in
Speaker 1: just a few hours, whereas the inhabitants, where the inhabitants
Speaker 1: showed symptoms only after thirty six hours or more. For
Speaker 1: the more, LSD does not cause that the digestive elements
Speaker 1: or the vegetative effects described by the townspeople. Um. And
Speaker 1: So to both those claims, I say, they're not necessarily true. Um,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's unclear how soon the delirious effects took
Speaker 1: place for some people they were they first effect felt. Um.
Speaker 1: So the whole thing about like the effects only taking
Speaker 1: effect after thirty six hours, that's not that's not necessarily true. Um.
Speaker 1: And Also LSD can definitely have nauseating or digestive effects yeast.
Speaker 1: So that's that's that's that's not that's yeah. And and
Speaker 1: but but like there were other types of symptoms that
Speaker 1: are not common for what we think of as like
Speaker 1: modern LST. Again, this is the ninetifties, and we don't
Speaker 1: know what they were actually on it did it's maybe not.
Speaker 1: It may not be what we think of as like LSD.
Speaker 1: Now it could be slightly that you know that this
Speaker 1: is a whole class of psychoactive drugs that's unclear what
Speaker 1: they were all actually being dosed with. Yeah, who the
Speaker 1: funk knows what they were being given and who the
Speaker 1: funk knows what the actual like dose amount was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we have no no idea. It's also you know, I
Speaker 1: think it's Leary was the origin of the phrase that
Speaker 1: like the things that determine what happens on a trip
Speaker 1: or set setting in dose, so your mindset, where you
Speaker 1: take it and who you take it around, and the
Speaker 1: dose and the fact that these are somewhat unique symptoms
Speaker 1: could be to the fact that like other people taking
Speaker 1: acid have never taken it this way and without knowing
Speaker 1: what acid is like. So Kaplan's other objections revolve around
Speaker 1: like the delivery system. He says, it's absurd this idea
Speaker 1: of transmitting a very toxic drug by putting by putting
Speaker 1: it in the bread as for pulver as to get
Speaker 1: for ingestion through the air. That technology wasn't even possible
Speaker 1: at the time. Most compelling Lee why would they choose
Speaker 1: the town of pont Sta Spree to conduct these tests.
Speaker 1: It was half destroyed by the U. S Army during
Speaker 1: fighting with the Germans in the Second World War. It
Speaker 1: makes no sense. And and to that, I say, that
Speaker 1: makes it the perfect town for the CIA to fun with. Me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they generally would choose to dose someone with acid because
Speaker 1: it sounded funny. Like I think the fact that this
Speaker 1: town was already kind of like only half inhabited and
Speaker 1: half destroyed by the by the Second World War, that
Speaker 1: makes the perfect town to work with like. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: also they also, the CIA and the government very much
Speaker 1: did have the means to try to distribute stuff via
Speaker 1: the air, because we can see other we can see
Speaker 1: other documents around the time of them doing this too,
Speaker 1: specific areas of of New York City. They also tried
Speaker 1: to poison the entire New York Subway with LSD in
Speaker 1: the fifties, but that was shut down by higher ups
Speaker 1: in in the Central Intelligence. Um. Fortunately, God what a
Speaker 1: time that would have been. But but cap But but
Speaker 1: Caplan isn't sure or got responsible either. Um. He says
Speaker 1: that inhabination would not have worked because it doesn't make
Speaker 1: sense that only one sack of grain would have been affected. Um.
Speaker 1: And he says if it was or got the the
Speaker 1: effects would have been way more widespread. Yeah, that does.
Speaker 1: He rules out LSD in the grounds and the symptoms
Speaker 1: of people suffered, although similar don't quite fit what we
Speaker 1: modernly think of the drug. Also, I don't I don't
Speaker 1: think Caplin's ever taken LSD, So I don't think I
Speaker 1: think he's right about it probably not being air got.
Speaker 1: But I don't think he knows much. Yeah, hell he
Speaker 1: also he also He also points out that LSD probably
Speaker 1: wouldn't have survived the fierce temperatures of the Baker's oven,
Speaker 1: although Albarelli counters that it could have been that LSD
Speaker 1: could have been added after the fact to the surface
Speaker 1: of the breach. You could just drop it on, you
Speaker 1: could you just drop it on with like with like
Speaker 1: liquid blodders, which also explain how the effects were so
Speaker 1: different from person to person, because one person may be
Speaker 1: having a whole drop of LSD, where somebody maybe only
Speaker 1: have like a tiny little like you know, speck of
Speaker 1: like speck of like like moist liquid. So I can
Speaker 1: explain some things, but you know, this is still pretty
Speaker 1: much a mystery. You know, it's very clear this very much,
Speaker 1: very well could have been some kind of hidden LSD.
Speaker 1: C I a experiment um or the CIA could have
Speaker 1: just been you know, interested in studying what happened in
Speaker 1: the town since they were also doing studies into psychoactives
Speaker 1: substances at the time. Um, it could be either or um.
Speaker 1: And that's where it's spooky because you'll never know. So, yes,
Speaker 1: that is that. That is the spooky incident of a
Speaker 1: French town basically thinking that they lost their minds and
Speaker 1: then you know they love to see it, do we.
Speaker 1: It is a little funny. It is definitely a little funny. Um,
Speaker 1: it's it is a great example of like the worst
Speaker 1: way to trip. Yeah that that's that's pretty high up there. Um. Anyway,
Speaker 1: critical support to the CIA for doosing random people with acid.
Speaker 1: Always one of my favorite sets of stories. You you
Speaker 1: love to see it, so yeah, tune tune in, tune
Speaker 1: in tomorrow for more spooky, spooky story and you can
Speaker 1: follow the spooky social media that poisons your brain at
Speaker 1: pap in here, pod and cool Zone media which yes,
Speaker 1: Twitter will poison your brain. That is just as spooky, um, spooky,
Speaker 1: way worse for your brain than surprise c I a askeid.
Speaker 1: To be honest, the acid wears off the gangster Chronicles
Speaker 1: podcast is a weekly conversation that revolves around the underworld
Speaker 1: and criminals and entertainers to victims's crime and law enforcement.
Speaker 1: We cover all facets of the game Gainst. The Chronicles
Speaker 1: podcast doesn't glorify promotilstit activities. We just discussed the ramifications
Speaker 1: and repercussions of these activities because at the wall she
Speaker 1: played gainst games. You are ultimately rewarded with gangster prizes.
Speaker 1: Our Heart Radios number one for podcasts, but don't take
Speaker 1: our award for it. Find Against the Chronicles podcast and
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio app or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to our show. I'm Zoie de Chanel
Speaker 1: and I'm so excited to be joined by my friends
Speaker 1: and cast mates Hannah Simone and Lamar and Morris to
Speaker 1: recap our hit television series New Girl. Join us every
Speaker 1: Monday on the Welcome to Our Show podcast, where we'll
Speaker 1: share behind the scenes stories of your favorite New Girl episodes,
Speaker 1: reveal the truth behind the legendary game True American, and
Speaker 1: discuss how this show got made with the writers, guest stars,
Speaker 1: and directors who made the show so special. Fans have
Speaker 1: been begging us to do a New Girl recap for years,
Speaker 1: and we finally made a podcast where we answer all
Speaker 1: your burning questions like is there really a bear? In
Speaker 1: every episode of New Girl. Plus each week you'll hear
Speaker 1: hilarious stories like this at the end, when he says,
Speaker 1: you got some schmid on your face. I feel like
Speaker 1: I pitched that joke. I believe that. I feel like
Speaker 1: I did. I'm not on a thousand percent I want
Speaker 1: to say that was I tossed that one out. Listen
Speaker 1: to the Welcome to Our Show podcast on the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: From Cavalry Audio comes the new true crime podcast The
Speaker 1: Shadow Girls. I Always wanted to kill somebody started laughing.
Speaker 1: Prosecutors described him as a serial killer survant, kicking up
Speaker 1: these girls, getting him in a position of vulnerability when
Speaker 1: he got hold of their neck. That was it. I'm
Speaker 1: Caroline Asia, a journalist and lifelong resident at the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker 1: I grew up near the banks of the Green River
Speaker 1: and in the shadow of the killer that bears its name.
Speaker 1: How many times did you bring the camera? One of time?
Speaker 1: Just want He started fantasizing about having sex with his mother,
Speaker 1: and he fantasized about killing her. But this podcast isn't
Speaker 1: only about tracking down the killer. It's about the victims.
Speaker 1: We stayed in the woods. He always liked to go
Speaker 1: in the woods, all of the kind of strange, you
Speaker 1: know how he feels about prostitutes. Listen to the Shadow
Speaker 1: Girls on the I Heart Radio app, on Apple podcasts
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm so to clicking
Speaker 1: leaf meeting. Every time that that bullshit comes up, It's like, yes,
Speaker 1: I can sent. That's why I'm fucking here. All right.
Speaker 1: So we we're starting with that line from Daniel Well,
Speaker 1: come to spooky. It could happen here today. We are
Speaker 1: discussing a truly spooky topic, one that everyone is just
Speaker 1: really gonna hate. Uh. And it's we're talking about let's
Speaker 1: say esoteric Kecki is um and me magic. So Shanni A,
Speaker 1: my brothers and sisters come along on a Rhow we
Speaker 1: read a whole book for this? Oh? I at least
Speaker 1: I did you read a book just for this? I
Speaker 1: would say that like all of the books I read
Speaker 1: from age nineteen to twenty two prepared me have been
Speaker 1: preparing here for that. Yeah, the books I read while
Speaker 1: I was doing psychedelics twice a week. All really, we're
Speaker 1: good background on this subject. That is true. You want
Speaker 1: to kick us off and I don't. So I think
Speaker 1: firstly we're talking about we're gonna we're gonna emphasize awareness
Speaker 1: over amplification or that kind of my my goal for
Speaker 1: this is that we can all be more aware of
Speaker 1: kind of the power that images on the Internet can
Speaker 1: have over influencing the actual world, and talking about people
Speaker 1: who believe this to a ridiculous degree and how they
Speaker 1: actually have been able to institute change not only because
Speaker 1: of this belief, just because of their dedication to this practice,
Speaker 1: because it's it's because it's a thing that exists and
Speaker 1: it has had real world ramifications, and it's good to
Speaker 1: understand that that's a thing, and that also maybe we
Speaker 1: can influence the way we like us use the internet
Speaker 1: to also maybe make good things happen as opposed to
Speaker 1: just being doomers all the time. Um So that's kind
Speaker 1: of what I wanted to start with. Many jobs to
Speaker 1: that Garrison complete keck with you God. Although to be fair,
Speaker 1: the past few days I have just been spamming the
Speaker 1: it could happen here a group chat with horrible nonsense
Speaker 1: surround cack. It has been the most insufferable week of
Speaker 1: my life. Horrible nonsense like like paragraphs, paragraphs, paragraphs, walls
Speaker 1: of text so big. Any any actually safe working environment
Speaker 1: that cared about its employees would have fired you long ago. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: I think the other thing that we should definitely mention
Speaker 1: is that any type of like occultism, mysticism or like
Speaker 1: woo woo um has actually does have a decent history
Speaker 1: within right wing political ideas, and specifically like you know,
Speaker 1: like more extreme like right wing um stuff in the
Speaker 1: past few years, like everyone's most people know that like
Speaker 1: the modern not like the like the early Nazis had
Speaker 1: some mystical stuff going on. There's a lot more stuff
Speaker 1: going behind the scenes. A lot of their favorite authors
Speaker 1: also were like practicing occultists. Um so this is this
Speaker 1: is this is a thing that goes back awhile you
Speaker 1: can even see this to some degree with like how
Speaker 1: close Christianity is to a lot of the right wing,
Speaker 1: to a lot of like the modern right wing the
Speaker 1: States as well, a lot of what we would consider
Speaker 1: evangelical Christianity has a lot of stuff that's actually very
Speaker 1: similar to occultism. They just use different terms because occultism
Speaker 1: and and like magic is taboo. But it's actually the
Speaker 1: same things. It's all like just it's inter it's interacting
Speaker 1: with the same systems, just with different words. So like
Speaker 1: this is this is the thing that is is not
Speaker 1: it's it's not just on the internet. This is thing
Speaker 1: that's been going on for thousands of years. In particular
Speaker 1: the past one years, we've seen a big rise in
Speaker 1: the amount of like occultism and mysticism specifically tied to politics. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and there's this. I mean, there have been a couple
Speaker 1: of articles written just recently about the fact that a
Speaker 1: lot of like the Woo Woo left, the kind of
Speaker 1: um not really esoteric but kind of mainstream a culti left,
Speaker 1: like the popa culti left has has increasingly turned towards
Speaker 1: stuff like Q and on and a big chunk of
Speaker 1: it is like this, this openness to like feel power
Speaker 1: in coincidences, synchronicity would be they and and just a
Speaker 1: general open mindedness to um maybe too many things. Sure, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's you can see this on on on
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of sides because it's yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it is definitely not just the right wing. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like the biggest example of this would probably be
Speaker 1: facets of Q and on the past few years have
Speaker 1: done very similar types of things. Uh, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of other stuff going on behind the scenes, like how
Speaker 1: how Pepe operated was very similar to that, which is
Speaker 1: what we're mainly talking about today. Um, but you know,
Speaker 1: there is also stuff like this on on the left wing,
Speaker 1: whether it be like New a g type stuff that
Speaker 1: seems to kind of mostly be bullshit, but there's a
Speaker 1: you know, other other type of like like like like
Speaker 1: folk magic or like indigenous traditions that have that have
Speaker 1: i would say slightly more uh significantly more like there's
Speaker 1: reasonable actually stuff going on as opposed to just like
Speaker 1: new Age selling books and that kind of stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 1: One of the things that also separates actual religion from
Speaker 1: religion that kind of has formed in this nomadic way
Speaker 1: recently is that all of this stuff, particularly what we're
Speaker 1: talking about today, formed simultaneously with political sentiment and as
Speaker 1: and and was was crafted and in a lot of cases,
Speaker 1: like they they state facts wrong specifically because they are
Speaker 1: trying to craft a political narrative alongside this like weird
Speaker 1: quasi spiritual things. I mean, speaking of spiritualism coming to
Speaker 1: the same kind of coming to the same and this
Speaker 1: is you know, we're all kind of anarchistic adjacent here.
Speaker 1: And one of the things that really came up around
Speaker 1: the same time as anarchism in the twentieth century was
Speaker 1: a concept called chaos magic, which was really really really
Speaker 1: tied to a lot of old really tied to a
Speaker 1: lot of like anarchist thought and anarchists kind of thinkers.
Speaker 1: Some of the most same with chaos magicians are like
Speaker 1: explicitly anarchist, someone like Grant Morrison. Um. Others are like Discordians,
Speaker 1: which have a lot of like anarchists crossover stuff, like
Speaker 1: like Robert Enton Wilson, which kind of operates in that
Speaker 1: same ocean. Yeah, he played a big role in kind
Speaker 1: of pulling me away from proto alt right style beliefs.
Speaker 1: And I think also a lot of his work was
Speaker 1: very intelligently crafted because he wrote about conspiracies, he wrote
Speaker 1: about esoteric magic, but always with a really intent eye
Speaker 1: on increasing people's defenses to this kind of stuff what
Speaker 1: we're talking about today. Um, he was very like cognizant
Speaker 1: of that, Like he wrote about conspiracy as an enthusiast,
Speaker 1: but also as someone who was trying to stop um
Speaker 1: kind of unchecked conspiratorial belief. Yeah, he went away about
Speaker 1: that in peculiar ways, but he was an odd man. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the reason why I've been getting more into this
Speaker 1: type type of stuff the past year, uh increase. And
Speaker 1: the reason why I really like chaos magic as I
Speaker 1: like it as like a post modern system of magic
Speaker 1: of looking at how basically if magic is just ideas
Speaker 1: and trying to figure out how our brains can interact
Speaker 1: with the physical world, then chaos magic in produces a
Speaker 1: lot of interesting stuff around like late stage capitalism, because
Speaker 1: it is is it's explicitly tied to to like postmodern
Speaker 1: art and postmodern thought um in the way you know,
Speaker 1: brands and marketing and specifically the Internet all affects our minds,
Speaker 1: all the stuff it gets talked about in charismatic a lot.
Speaker 1: And I really like look using that framework for things
Speaker 1: um and speaking of that kind of stuff specifically around
Speaker 1: the Internet, we're gonna be talking about. The first thing
Speaker 1: I want to mention is like the concept of searching
Speaker 1: for something and then you're like you're and you're gonna
Speaker 1: find it, whether that you know, Robert Enton Wilson and
Speaker 1: um like the Illuminatious Trilogies has like and like, and
Speaker 1: Discordianism has like twenty three and the Law of Fives. Right,
Speaker 1: I I read that book when I was twenty and
Speaker 1: I have been like seeing twenty three's repeatedly at like
Speaker 1: significant moments in my life for the last fourteen years
Speaker 1: or so. Like, Yeah, it's it's like, once you get
Speaker 1: that kind of meme implanted in your brain, it can
Speaker 1: stick with you for forever. And and this this happens
Speaker 1: to everything. You know, this happens to This happens to everyone.
Speaker 1: Like once you learn about a new topic, the next day,
Speaker 1: you'll see it somewhere right, You'll be like, you'll you'll
Speaker 1: like it. And it's in all these places that that
Speaker 1: you didn't see it before. This happens all of the
Speaker 1: time with everything. This is how this is like how
Speaker 1: synchronicity works, and this is where religions come from, yeah,
Speaker 1: throughout history. And it's because like this all has its
Speaker 1: roots in why we're very good hunters. We are patterned
Speaker 1: were pattern recognition, Like our brains are pattern recognizing machines.
Speaker 1: That's what we're best at. And it means that we're
Speaker 1: good at spotting berries and tracking deer. And it also
Speaker 1: means that we can't stop making religions. We can religion
Speaker 1: and if we have one too many synchronicities, we can
Speaker 1: change the entire way we view about the like the
Speaker 1: whole world, which can have varying degrees of effects. Sometimes
Speaker 1: I can if it's just a little bit that can
Speaker 1: maybe ahould be very helpful. Um, if you join a
Speaker 1: weird cult that does messed up stuff, then it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a problem. Yeah, sometimes it ends in burning man
Speaker 1: and sometimes it ends in burning men. Yeah, drop the
Speaker 1: bomb on that one. So first thing I want to
Speaker 1: kind of discuss before we get into the actual timeline
Speaker 1: of how pepangcasm became a thing, I want to just
Speaker 1: do a brief overview of sigils and memes um and
Speaker 1: the idea of what like, let's let's take the original
Speaker 1: concept of the meme, which is like you know, the
Speaker 1: it's genes are genetic, memes are cultural. There's are cultural
Speaker 1: ideas that can spread like a virus um and usually memes.
Speaker 1: In the since since since the Internet has become way
Speaker 1: more popular, memes have become more tied to images like
Speaker 1: like memes are a much more visual thing now, whereas
Speaker 1: in the nineties they were more of just like like
Speaker 1: an idea concept, but now they have like in this
Speaker 1: extra visual backing. So a sigil is a is a
Speaker 1: magical concept and mostly to chaos magic, which is basically
Speaker 1: an abstract concept um or or like a specific con
Speaker 1: scept put into an abstract image that then gets charged
Speaker 1: and then it's going to manifest itself in your life.
Speaker 1: The reason why this works is because part part of
Speaker 1: this desire gets implanted deep in your brain when you
Speaker 1: charge it through like a trance or that there's a
Speaker 1: there's there's like there's different methods of charging sigils, but
Speaker 1: you have this, you have this concept and this idea
Speaker 1: and this desire and it gets put into you. So
Speaker 1: you're gonna kind of subconsciously do things that that influence
Speaker 1: it into becoming something that you can see. Just like
Speaker 1: you know, if you're if you're looking, if you hear
Speaker 1: about twenty three, you're gonna see it. Same thing for this.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's it's the same kind of based concept
Speaker 1: um and then Grant Morrison of Comic Book Writers my
Speaker 1: my favorite comic book writer. He he was, he's really
Speaker 1: the only person that's developed sigils more since their inception.
Speaker 1: UM with the concept of a hyper sigil, which is
Speaker 1: taking this theme idea of like wanting to influence change
Speaker 1: in the world via this visual medium of a sigil,
Speaker 1: and instead of just having it be like an abstract
Speaker 1: glyph that you charge, hyper sigil is an entire work
Speaker 1: of art with this express interest. Um. So everything that
Speaker 1: you do in this is trying to get some type
Speaker 1: of real world change, and it's very very intentional, right,
Speaker 1: And a lot of art already oprights like this. This
Speaker 1: is why a lot of postmodern magic is very similar
Speaker 1: just to like making art, because it's the same kind
Speaker 1: of basic idea, whether that be something like you know,
Speaker 1: like the matrix or you know, any any type of
Speaker 1: art kind of does this already if it is good, um,
Speaker 1: and it in it can find ways to influence reality.
Speaker 1: So memes operate on this same way. And eventually people
Speaker 1: actually found eventually people on four ch and realized that
Speaker 1: they that they were doing the ceduls and started using
Speaker 1: this word because it's really the same thing when you're
Speaker 1: when you're altering all of these images of this frog
Speaker 1: and posting it into all these different kind of more
Speaker 1: abstract more like ugly obscure kind of like weird, like
Speaker 1: surreal types of types of memes, and you're spamming them
Speaker 1: on politicians Twitter account. You're basically doing a group a
Speaker 1: group schedule, and a group hyper cygil. Because you're all
Speaker 1: making these individual things and are spamming them into the world,
Speaker 1: and because there's so many of them, Yeah, they're gonna
Speaker 1: have they're gonna have a real world effect, and they're
Speaker 1: gonna have a real world effect in part because of
Speaker 1: the way human brains work, in part because of the
Speaker 1: way algorithms work, which is one of the things where
Speaker 1: like it's it's easy, especially if you're an impressionable kid,
Speaker 1: to mistake the algorithm doing what it's designed to do,
Speaker 1: which is find patterns groups of people sharing something and
Speaker 1: expand that to a larger group of people, because oh,
Speaker 1: if this cluster of people like this, this will probably
Speaker 1: be something that's very Algorithms are great at making synchronicities
Speaker 1: because that's what they're designed to do. That's what they're
Speaker 1: supposed that's the whole point of why they exist, and
Speaker 1: that's why this is that that that's why are because
Speaker 1: as you stated a little earlier, and one of these
Speaker 1: days on Bastards we're gonna talk about Helena Blovotsky and
Speaker 1: like the Theosophy movement and more detail, like all of
Speaker 1: the occult stuff that fed into the Third the early
Speaker 1: stage of the Third Reich. But the occult back then
Speaker 1: is very different from the kind of occult feeding into
Speaker 1: fascism now, which is heavily based around synchronicity, because it's
Speaker 1: also heavily based around social media, the way memes bread. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why I thinks what the chaos magic has really
Speaker 1: gotten kind of a resurgence the past few years with
Speaker 1: social media and how algorithms developed, because they do mirror
Speaker 1: a lot of the concepts within chaos magic, because the
Speaker 1: Internet is kind of a chaotic place. But it's also
Speaker 1: it's not just pure chaos. It is chaos within a
Speaker 1: framework of order, which is why I like the like
Speaker 1: the like the chaos star, like the like the actual
Speaker 1: like chaos like sigil. Yes, the errors a pointing in
Speaker 1: every direction, but you can make a perfect circle around
Speaker 1: all of the arrows. It's because it's not just pure chaos.
Speaker 1: It actually is contained with within this other framework. And
Speaker 1: by the way, Garrison when you started talking about synchronyge
Speaker 1: cities and sigils. I checked my phone for a second
Speaker 1: and saw that it was five seventeen on October five.
Speaker 1: Of course contains both two and three and as thus
Speaker 1: a sacred number October twenty three. I shouldn't have to
Speaker 1: explain why that significant, and it's yeah, but it's the
Speaker 1: twenty three on my phone. Why is my phone's fucked up?
Speaker 1: Because because the universe, baby, that's the synchronicity. I'm living
Speaker 1: in the future. Motherfucker's And what time is it that
Speaker 1: it's not right now? It was my phone and the
Speaker 1: other time it is. I I don't need to know
Speaker 1: what time it is the default reality. No, no, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're you're you're on a different, different dimensional plane. Now
Speaker 1: we have two into two different ones. I think I
Speaker 1: think that I think this gives up gives us a
Speaker 1: perfect opportunity for the audience to find their own synchronicities
Speaker 1: in these ads, because who knows what's going to happen,
Speaker 1: what's gonna play, So look for patterns and you'll find them.
Speaker 1: Here's some mass I hope it's an ad for the
Speaker 1: Egyptian goddess Mott, and we are back, We're gonna, We're
Speaker 1: gonna now actually kind of get into some of the
Speaker 1: some of the actual Peppe nonsense. Um. I think another
Speaker 1: important part to mention is that like for a lot
Speaker 1: of people doing this online, this, this is like an
Speaker 1: online pattern that happens all the time. Um, it happens
Speaker 1: with It happens with stuff like this, It happens with
Speaker 1: with with cat Boys, it happens with a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff. Is that like stuff starts as a joke
Speaker 1: and then you do it a lot and the repetition
Speaker 1: basically makes you do it genuinely. Yeah, like me talking
Speaker 1: about getting all of my followers to a compound in
Speaker 1: Idaho where we die fighting the f d A exactly
Speaker 1: Interually that turns into an actual death cult. So it's
Speaker 1: it's it starts as a joke and then under repetition
Speaker 1: it becomes genuine. This happens so basically almost everything on
Speaker 1: the internet. Yeah, this this, this, this, this leads to
Speaker 1: Garrison and I doing the inevitable Robert Evans Behind the
Speaker 1: Bastards episode. This episode it's a three part or if
Speaker 1: I ever heard one you you hope so you wish
Speaker 1: what what are what are cat Boys. This is different.
Speaker 1: That is a different you're here, that is a different podcast.
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, Hi, sorry, I know, I only inser
Speaker 1: Jake briefly. Is that is that? Are they? Are they
Speaker 1: like pre furries? Is that different? No, Cowboys post fury,
Speaker 1: it's kind of it's it's it's it's rehumanizing the it's
Speaker 1: rehumanizing the furies. So like the same way, the same way,
Speaker 1: the same way. Sonic the Hedgehog is a re Mickey
Speaker 1: mossification of vegeta. Uh, cowboys are a humanification of furries.
Speaker 1: This is a whole process on the I can explain
Speaker 1: this in great detail in the later episode, but I
Speaker 1: think we have enough. We have enough to talk about already.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, my dog. Okay, sure would someone
Speaker 1: be willing to sacrifice their own mentality to describe the
Speaker 1: rise of Pepe and just originally in the early twenty teens, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it started. Is this guy's comic that there was
Speaker 1: nothing particularly about. Yeah, it was just it was a
Speaker 1: dude's comic. He was like, uh, feels good Man was
Speaker 1: kind of fel good Man. He was a chill dude.
Speaker 1: He was a chill dude. Yeah, not a fascist comic.
Speaker 1: Peppe is actually pretty fun. Yeah, comic Pepe, he's like
Speaker 1: he's like a millennial slacker who doesn't really know what
Speaker 1: to do with his life after like after nine eleven,
Speaker 1: after the financial crash. He's just trying to kind of
Speaker 1: get by the comics fine. Yeah, the comics fine, but
Speaker 1: the art just that kind of the specifics of how
Speaker 1: he drew Pepe made him very well suited for a
Speaker 1: meme because he's expressive and he so he shows up
Speaker 1: and starts getting spread in four chan, and you know,
Speaker 1: that kind of idea goes viral, and it particularly gets
Speaker 1: attached to a lot of like the political ship on
Speaker 1: Pole and the people who are like churning into gamer
Speaker 1: Gate and the right sad Pepe gets very popular, Smug
Speaker 1: Pepe gets very popular. Yeah yeah. And then as so
Speaker 1: kick is text of it, Like later on, I think
Speaker 1: we'll go over more for like how Pepe is like
Speaker 1: the cartoon character got you know, as soon as it
Speaker 1: becomes a meme, it spreads out into all corners. And
Speaker 1: the people who meaned this hardest we were on Fortune.
Speaker 1: So this is how pep Peppe became kind of tied
Speaker 1: to this. And I think the last bullet in Pepe
Speaker 1: really solidifying him as as an alt right meanings specifically
Speaker 1: was the Richard Spencer punch. I think I think that's
Speaker 1: the thing that actually was like done. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: Pepe is just this now, he can't be anything else
Speaker 1: because but when when when Richard Spencer was being punched,
Speaker 1: he was describing what Pepe was. That was what's happening
Speaker 1: in that specific viral moment. If you want to talk
Speaker 1: about like magical terms, this is Pepe getting like charged,
Speaker 1: Like this is the idea of like this idea getting
Speaker 1: getting charged because it is now going to be perflated
Speaker 1: to the masses in this in this moment of like
Speaker 1: pure motion. So that's when Pepe really gets tied to
Speaker 1: And I think Hillary Clinton made it very, very worse
Speaker 1: the way she talked about this kind of stuff on
Speaker 1: her speeches basically gave gave the all right a baseball
Speaker 1: bat to hit her with. The the problem that Clinton
Speaker 1: and everyone else because a big part of I would
Speaker 1: argue that like the largest part of why Pepe became
Speaker 1: a thing that was destined to last was that pundits
Speaker 1: and politicians, including Hillary and media people kept talking about
Speaker 1: it as a fascist symbol and kept discussing like what
Speaker 1: it was, and that anyone who grew up on the Internet,
Speaker 1: who grew up around these communities, knows that you ignore
Speaker 1: them as much as possible, to the extent that that's possible.
Speaker 1: You don't feed the troll you don't give them power. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't. And and talking about it again, this is
Speaker 1: like chasmetic like referencing it, bringing it up, bringing it
Speaker 1: into the real world gives it power. That's the thing
Speaker 1: that feeds it. Yeah, So that that's how it got
Speaker 1: so much more power. The more Clinton talked about it,
Speaker 1: the more news media wrote about it, everyone got so
Speaker 1: excited on the four change. That's like, that's that's that's like,
Speaker 1: that is them winning than them seeing this thing. And
Speaker 1: and then and then this goes back pre even being far.
Speaker 1: I can't remember because I was in these spaces when
Speaker 1: they first started doing ship like raids on the Church
Speaker 1: of Scientology. Every time there would actual like news coverage
Speaker 1: of what people on the Internet did, it got people
Speaker 1: so fucking excited because like, the Internet had been this
Speaker 1: thing that didn't matter for the longest. I think in
Speaker 1: the in the book I read about this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: They they did use the example of like Anonymous and
Speaker 1: the raids on centology being like a precursor to this
Speaker 1: type of like me magic of this thing, like like
Speaker 1: internet forums influencing the real world through repetition and getting
Speaker 1: getting to grow power. We're getting people who don't use
Speaker 1: Internet to talk about these same things. It was like
Speaker 1: a precursor to then what we what we saw the
Speaker 1: al right, which is which is a pretty pretty common opinion. Um.
Speaker 1: And then and then enter enter the Egyptian gods, Roberts,
Speaker 1: do wanna do you wanna? Don't wanna? I don't wanna
Speaker 1: discuss that. We're gonna That's what we're gonna say. Next
Speaker 1: is how is this intersex with Egyptian gods? The ancient
Speaker 1: Pharaoh's played a card game of ancient and terrible power man.
Speaker 1: Nobody watched you as a kid, now, Robert, do you wanna?
Speaker 1: Do you wanna? Do you wanna? Do you want to
Speaker 1: discuss keck? Yeah, I mean so way back in the day.
Speaker 1: Um And I think I think this even pre dates
Speaker 1: World War Craft. I remember at first happening on like
Speaker 1: StarCraft games online, there would be like gamers from Korea
Speaker 1: and like when you were doing like a Zurg rush
Speaker 1: or something, which is when you have a bunch of
Speaker 1: guys and they all attack the enemy base or whatever.
Speaker 1: They would type out their term for l O L,
Speaker 1: which was like keck k e K yeah okay u
Speaker 1: K so would usually just look like a stream of
Speaker 1: ku k e k k k over and over and
Speaker 1: over again. This really took off in world of warcraft,
Speaker 1: where like there were Korean gold farmers were a big thing,
Speaker 1: and like keck was something that like everyone kind of
Speaker 1: knew what it meant because it was often the only
Speaker 1: thing you can understand. You could you could understand as
Speaker 1: an American that like these people would be typing um
Speaker 1: and it as a result of kind of all of that,
Speaker 1: it took off an internet culture as just an l
Speaker 1: O and specifically like one of the things that's going
Speaker 1: on here. So as the mid auts dawn and the
Speaker 1: Internet becomes serious business and like social media really and
Speaker 1: everybody's even before social media is dominant, but just when
Speaker 1: everybody's taking the Internet seriously, it's clear there's a lot
Speaker 1: of money in it. It's it's mainstream. You have this
Speaker 1: this kind of second generation of Internet people who got
Speaker 1: on in the late nineties early two thousands, when they
Speaker 1: were kids who get frustrated at the fact that all
Speaker 1: of these different terms and phrases and like bits of
Speaker 1: internet culture that they had identified with our going mainstream
Speaker 1: and normalies are using them. Yeah. Yeah, And keck is
Speaker 1: everyone knows what l O l is. People don't know
Speaker 1: what keck is. So in places like four Chan, that
Speaker 1: becomes a really popular thing. And keck kind of is
Speaker 1: like so keck as a as a term for laughters,
Speaker 1: like floating around at the same time as like pepe
Speaker 1: A memes, and so whenever you whenever you like meme
Speaker 1: something into the mainstream, whenever like some four Chan opera
Speaker 1: whatever you wanna call it, like succeeds in getting mainstreams it.
Speaker 1: It's it as a clud and mentions pepping on stage.
Speaker 1: Everyone fortune goes kick because they're laughing. They go can
Speaker 1: they say stuff like top kick and whatnot, and and
Speaker 1: and eventually somebody realizes that there's an Egyptian goddess. One
Speaker 1: of the translations of that god and goddess his name
Speaker 1: is k k Um. Now there's a couple of other translations.
Speaker 1: There's there's there's a whole bunch of issues with this.
Speaker 1: If you wanted to look at it. That's with the
Speaker 1: rational kind of brain is because like this there was
Speaker 1: this old family of god's are very very old old
Speaker 1: Egyptian gods. They all had male and female versions. The
Speaker 1: male versions all had frog heads, um and but around
Speaker 1: frogs can change their gender. Yeah, so like so like
Speaker 1: all of the all this whole era of Egyptian gods
Speaker 1: all had frog heads. So there was one of them
Speaker 1: that was named Keck, who was a god of chaos.
Speaker 1: And this also played into how Fortune was using Trump
Speaker 1: because like they liked Trump mostly as like as like
Speaker 1: a chaotic reforce that got people angry, because that's what
Speaker 1: that's what Fortune wanted to do as well. They wanted
Speaker 1: to be a chaotic force again that gets people angry.
Speaker 1: That's why they really latched onto true ump Um. And
Speaker 1: then when they found out that, oh there's this god
Speaker 1: named Keck who is like the lord of like like
Speaker 1: like um like pro that what's the word um primordial darkness,
Speaker 1: primorial darkness. Yeah, and this idea yeah kind of like
Speaker 1: um um urinus and like Greco Roman faith, right, like
Speaker 1: a god kind of before the gods that are are
Speaker 1: more well known, but like this was a synchronicity so
Speaker 1: they took it as like, you know, the same way
Speaker 1: religions take take synchronicity and create and create like divinity.
Speaker 1: They took this as like this take they took this
Speaker 1: as like divinity. Again this this starts as a joke,
Speaker 1: but you do it enough and you start to take
Speaker 1: it seriously, and there's a you get a mix of um,
Speaker 1: you get a mix of of real. Like Egyptology was that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was a god named Kick, like among a bunch
Speaker 1: of other gods. One of the ways he was depicted
Speaker 1: was with a frog head. But also like bad Egyptology, Like,
Speaker 1: I found an article on the word plus press blog
Speaker 1: Peppe the Frog Faith, which oh, I'm sure this, I'm
Speaker 1: sure this is like a bastion of archaeology, and and
Speaker 1: the title is amateur Egyptologist weighs in on the frog
Speaker 1: statue hieroglyphs. And one of the things he points out
Speaker 1: are talking about the frog statues that isn't check but
Speaker 1: they thought it was Kick, Yeah, yeah, yeah, and a
Speaker 1: number of things. So like one of the things this
Speaker 1: guy claims is that the hieroglyphics for Keeck are a
Speaker 1: frogman um and then a couple of what he calls
Speaker 1: baskets first, up their cups not baskets. Second, the actual
Speaker 1: um uh hieroglyphics for for K e K don't include
Speaker 1: the little frogman. They're like the two of the little
Speaker 1: cups in this weird T shaped thing. Like yeah, it's
Speaker 1: all it's all like it's bad again amateur egyptologist Like
Speaker 1: he's just a kid who was googling stuff and like
Speaker 1: got some either lied or got some hieroglyphics wrong. But
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff compounds. But keck as like an
Speaker 1: idea is like now we have a backing of an
Speaker 1: ancient god again first as a joke, but then some
Speaker 1: people started to take it more seriously, really really caught on.
Speaker 1: Among people could because because it's funny, like it's it's
Speaker 1: just funny, and it's funny. It's gonna catch on on
Speaker 1: for chat because it's hilarious, right, so they're gonna start
Speaker 1: using this and repeating this and creating whole new memes,
Speaker 1: creating like there's like there's like an eight eight part
Speaker 1: book series that's like fake books written by like someone
Speaker 1: who's like just me bing but pretending to take it seriously.
Speaker 1: But like the authenticity doesn't actually matter because because it exists,
Speaker 1: it doesn't actually matter how authentic it is. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 1: and there's there's weird coincidences that continue to occur, Like
Speaker 1: one of the biggest being there's this like phrase shadow,
Speaker 1: which creeps up in all of this and becomes like
Speaker 1: this exhortation that they use like a way of like
Speaker 1: exclaiming and such. And then somebody figures out that shadow
Speaker 1: is also a song, like an Italo disco song I
Speaker 1: think from the seventies, and the album that Shadow is
Speaker 1: on has like a frog man face on the cover. Um,
Speaker 1: and so they're like, it's a sign because you're gonna
Speaker 1: find frogs wherever you look now because that has becomes
Speaker 1: the think of uncommon frogs. You're gonna find them everywhere
Speaker 1: now and there are every ancient religion everywhere in the world.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get guarantee there's some fucking frogs in it
Speaker 1: because like they're everywhere, and that they're old creatures people,
Speaker 1: frogs they've been around for a long times, have been around.
Speaker 1: So the other the other thing that happened, so people
Speaker 1: not only basically created their whole mythology around this, creating
Speaker 1: different types of religion. There was like kecki is Um
Speaker 1: as a religion, the cult of keck Um esoter Keechism,
Speaker 1: all of their own distinct differences. Because these people spend
Speaker 1: all their time on the internet. Um, they developed all
Speaker 1: these things. And they also found this old frog statue
Speaker 1: that they said was keck it Actually it isn't it's
Speaker 1: actually it's actually a gold called heck it Um. But
Speaker 1: on the basis does it doesn't matter. But on the
Speaker 1: base of the statue it had it had gliphs which
Speaker 1: appear to us modern humans as they they look like
Speaker 1: someone sitting on a computer like they look like like
Speaker 1: someone sitting in front of a monitor on a keyboard. Um.
Speaker 1: And on the other side of the keyboard is a
Speaker 1: DNA is like what looks like a DNA spiral. So
Speaker 1: this is like jes like jeans, right, jeans jeans are
Speaker 1: d NA memes our cultural DNA. This is a glyph
Speaker 1: of the god teck on a statue with someone on
Speaker 1: a computer with a DNA spiral. Of course they're gonna
Speaker 1: take this is like some like message from the from
Speaker 1: the gods. You're like, yes, I'm supposed to be. I
Speaker 1: am supposed to be by my meming, I'm doing Chex's
Speaker 1: work to put Trump into office. Yeah, it's um god,
Speaker 1: that's frustrating insurance. Uh, it sure is. But like all
Speaker 1: of those in the in group, this is like the
Speaker 1: statue was just a depiction of what the check people
Speaker 1: and the and the pepper spanders were doing posting on
Speaker 1: the Internet to manifest real world change. And that's that's
Speaker 1: all it is. If you want to see other examples
Speaker 1: of this, like if you look at the ancient alien stuff,
Speaker 1: there's this like famous Mayanna higher glyph of the astronomer
Speaker 1: that's like if you if you know what a telescope is,
Speaker 1: because you're looking at it a thousand years after it
Speaker 1: was carved, it kind of looks like it might be
Speaker 1: a telescope, and it's part of what like people say like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is proof that like that this is an alien
Speaker 1: Like he's looking at a fucking telescope. No, it was.
Speaker 1: There's other explanations for it. It was something like that
Speaker 1: somebody carved. Yeah, I think there's another thing that you started.
Speaker 1: And I see this like not even like I see
Speaker 1: this just this is just on the end of all time,
Speaker 1: like I see left just do this or like so
Speaker 1: like okay, so you learn something and then oh it's
Speaker 1: not true. But then people will keep spreading the thing
Speaker 1: because they'll say, yeah, yeah, well it has more power
Speaker 1: with it, so you're still going to believe it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like when we talk about the fact that Will Wheaton
Speaker 1: murdered three people in if you want to this is
Speaker 1: the message, like yeah, yeah with a knife, what's horrible? Yeah, Now,
Speaker 1: I mean he was in Thailand at the time, so
Speaker 1: he was able to get out and we don't extra die.
Speaker 1: So's he's he's got out Scott for But yeah, but
Speaker 1: I mean like this is like the same this is
Speaker 1: this is the same thing that Trump does, which we'll
Speaker 1: talk about it, but we'll talk about a bit. It's
Speaker 1: like if you would appeate the thing enough, it becomes
Speaker 1: true for large swats of the population that that's that's
Speaker 1: that's all truth actually needs to be for people. Um,
Speaker 1: I think I think we're gonna go and break uh
Speaker 1: and come back and close us, close us up, and
Speaker 1: finally finished this horrible discussion. Um. Anyone know who won't
Speaker 1: meme fascism? Well, actually, KFC the the have you seen
Speaker 1: have you seen the KFC fascist posting on Twitter? Yea,
Speaker 1: there's like a Spanish KFC account that has been doing that.
Speaker 1: That is up to some ship. Yeah, I hate I
Speaker 1: hate that. That's a sentence that that that you got
Speaker 1: to say, I just hated for products. And we are back.
Speaker 1: I have finished and entire dark meat bucket and I
Speaker 1: am so full. Um yep. And now I'm sad. I'm
Speaker 1: sad because I'm still thinking of the fascist KFC Twitter account.
Speaker 1: Um so we we. The other thing I want to do,
Speaker 1: want to mention is kind of Trump's own uh power
Speaker 1: of belief kind of idea and how Trump was basically
Speaker 1: using esoteric terms, was able to basically create an alternate
Speaker 1: reality for millions of people to live in. Um And
Speaker 1: there's really no getting through to them now because they're
Speaker 1: literally just in a just in a different dimension, and
Speaker 1: there's just there's there's no way to pierce that other dimension.
Speaker 1: They're basically living in just a totally alternate reality there.
Speaker 1: There's there's no use saying that it is the one
Speaker 1: that we live in. UM. So Trump was obsessed with
Speaker 1: a few of these ideas. He's less than like the like,
Speaker 1: He's less interested in like the woo and more interested
Speaker 1: in like the power of positive thinking, power of your
Speaker 1: own belief. Um, he grew up in a movement and
Speaker 1: specific appeal stuff. Yeah, he grew up following a specific
Speaker 1: movement and church called that falls under the umbrella called
Speaker 1: New Thought, um, which is where Trump's you know, Trump's
Speaker 1: like like how strong Trump's ego is comes from this
Speaker 1: idea of that you need to reinforce yourself and reinforce
Speaker 1: your own victories because if you do that, you're gonna
Speaker 1: you're you're gonna find them. Right if if you're looking
Speaker 1: for you're gonna find it. If you're looking for your
Speaker 1: own victories, you're going to force them to happen, um,
Speaker 1: even if they don't happen into other people. Right. But like,
Speaker 1: so that we see this happening successfully with the election,
Speaker 1: we see both like all of the meming everything that
Speaker 1: happened in the trusteen election worked for Trump um. And
Speaker 1: you know, you know, of course, of course he didn't
Speaker 1: win the popular vote, but that doesn't actually matter, but
Speaker 1: it worked into in getting him to office now it
Speaker 1: you know, it worked less well for the election, um,
Speaker 1: but still his real assertions that he won still gave
Speaker 1: us a lot of real world results, like the January
Speaker 1: six Capital insurrection. So like it's this right, So this
Speaker 1: type of idea that if you read, if you if
Speaker 1: you reinforce this thing, if you reinforce this belief, if
Speaker 1: you can, if you have if you have this idea
Speaker 1: and you keep putting it out into the world, it's
Speaker 1: gonna manifest some type of real, real world result. And
Speaker 1: that that was January six That's what that was. And
Speaker 1: and that's the kind of the world we live in now.
Speaker 1: It's like the weaponized unreality world where people because of
Speaker 1: how media works, because are the Internet works, they're able
Speaker 1: to create this like chaotic like like sphere of of
Speaker 1: energy and ideas that can like spread so much faster
Speaker 1: than anything used to be. That could everyone can segment
Speaker 1: their own reality into two degrees that we've never really
Speaker 1: seen before because of how fast information can travel. Now, um,
Speaker 1: it is, it is. It is a new it's it
Speaker 1: is a relatively new thing. The way that the way
Speaker 1: that this this this can operate so like memes, memes
Speaker 1: themselves like Pepe and all this kind of stuff undoubtedly
Speaker 1: had had an impact on not only just the twenties
Speaker 1: sixteen election, but just the entire political climate surrounding the
Speaker 1: whole Trump presidency. Uh Now, to the degree to which
Speaker 1: we can credit me magic or the god kick, that
Speaker 1: part is meaningless because because the effect is the same
Speaker 1: that like the synchronicities were still experienced and and truth
Speaker 1: is just is just experiential. So it's the beliefs that
Speaker 1: we kind of hold will shape how we experience things anyway,
Speaker 1: and that will experience what the actual truth is. There's
Speaker 1: there there is a great Robert Anton Wilson quote that
Speaker 1: is like reality is what you can get away with,
Speaker 1: ye And that's that's like that that like summarizes how
Speaker 1: Trump was able to be so successful is because he
Speaker 1: was able to shape reality, right. I think me, me
Speaker 1: and me and Chris were talking about this the other
Speaker 1: day about how, Chris, do you want to say the
Speaker 1: thing about like the Democratic Party and Republican Party and
Speaker 1: how yeah, okay, okay, So there's there's there's there's a thing.
Speaker 1: And Garrison I think was too young for this. But
Speaker 1: there's a very famous thing that that one of the
Speaker 1: Bushman pedietrition people said about how Democrats lived in the
Speaker 1: reality based community and this this is like a whole
Speaker 1: thing in the in like the two thousands, this is
Speaker 1: in the Bush administration and everyone loses their minds and
Speaker 1: this is like a whole meme when the Democrats that's like, oh,
Speaker 1: where the reality based community? And they're not. But but
Speaker 1: then this is the interesting part. If you look at
Speaker 1: the second part of that quote, right, what he's actually
Speaker 1: saying is that so the Democrats are the reality based community, right,
Speaker 1: they they analyze reality. The Republican Party is the party
Speaker 1: that creates reality because other people in control the empire.
Speaker 1: And this is this is what neo conservative this was, right,
Speaker 1: And you know, the argument here basically is that the
Speaker 1: Democrats are you know, they're always going to be a
Speaker 1: step behind because they're merely analyzing reality, whereas Republicans using
Speaker 1: the powers or of the state to you know, change
Speaker 1: and define it. And this this worked for them, you
Speaker 1: know what. I would argue that this is how they
Speaker 1: came into power, This is how there's this is what
Speaker 1: they're still doing. Yeah. Yeah, why every president since Ronald
Speaker 1: Reagan has just been Ronald Reagan with a mask. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But but I think I think there's something very important here,
Speaker 1: specifically about how Bush took off this right, because Bush,
Speaker 1: Bush steals the election. Right, Bush does like the thing
Speaker 1: that Trump was trying to do is what George Bush
Speaker 1: did into in two thousands, but with a riot, just
Speaker 1: with a very kind of riot. Yeah. But but this
Speaker 1: is the thing, the thing, this is the thing that
Speaker 1: Bush and the neo kons understood that the Trump is
Speaker 1: kind of understand but never quite solidified because they're not
Speaker 1: like they're not sort of insider political actors. Which is that. Okay,
Speaker 1: so all of the stuff about saying something and it
Speaker 1: becoming real, right, there's there there's sort of a limit
Speaker 1: to this if if you don't have a gun. Now,
Speaker 1: if you have a gun, then the limits of that
Speaker 1: are are you know, it's it's you can do basically
Speaker 1: whatever you want because you can just you can force
Speaker 1: everyone else to also accept this as reality. You know,
Speaker 1: this is what the state is, right, and there's there's
Speaker 1: a whole there's a whole thing. This is a couple
Speaker 1: of performance theory. Like yeah, so like you you saying
Speaker 1: the thing makes it so right? Well, this is this
Speaker 1: is what a state is. And this is how Bush
Speaker 1: won the election because he, unlike Trump, who's people tried
Speaker 1: to like take power directly about like Stormy in the Capitol.
Speaker 1: Bush was smart and Bush was like, oh okay, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna de clare that I won the election.
Speaker 1: And but but but instead of like openly doing it right,
Speaker 1: I'm going to get the Supreme Court to declare that
Speaker 1: I'm president. And you know, and this this, this requires
Speaker 1: the Brook's brothers riot stop the counts and all the stuff.
Speaker 1: Were like, you know, it's doesn't yeah, yeah, it's great,
Speaker 1: but it's like it doesn't it doesn't matter that, you know,
Speaker 1: he he didn't win Florida, like if if if if
Speaker 1: if if if the if the votes had actually been counted,
Speaker 1: he would not have won Florida. But because he was
Speaker 1: able to get the courts to say that he was president,
Speaker 1: he was president. And and that's that is the concept
Speaker 1: of magic words yep, yep, and this is this is this,
Speaker 1: this is this is all the state is right, it's
Speaker 1: this this this the state is magic with a gun
Speaker 1: behind it. Yeah it is, yeah, the state of magic.
Speaker 1: Because he's like, yeah, you're right. It's like magic can
Speaker 1: have a hard cap. There's gonna be a certain people that,
Speaker 1: you know, with with with Trump's reality altering kind of power,
Speaker 1: there's a certain that there is a hardcap on how
Speaker 1: much I can influence the general population. But if you
Speaker 1: have a gun behind that, that gives us so much
Speaker 1: more enforceable power. And to go back to Egyptian mythology,
Speaker 1: one of the attitudes they had about the pharaoh is
Speaker 1: that reality was whatever the pharaoh declared. Other a lot
Speaker 1: of societies of this idea towards their monarchs, and the
Speaker 1: duty of his people is to make reality conform to
Speaker 1: the Pharaoh's will, and like, that's that's what the GOP does.
Speaker 1: Like that, I think I think the quote surrounding like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the Democrats are the reality based party because they because
Speaker 1: they you know, observe it, except the reality and like
Speaker 1: and yeah and and like and like and like. Libs
Speaker 1: and Democrats are like, yes, they like they take some
Speaker 1: private like yes, we are rational, we observe reality. Meanwhile
Speaker 1: the Republicans are like, no, you just observe it, but
Speaker 1: we can just we can create it. I think that
Speaker 1: is a great example of how those two parties operate
Speaker 1: politically and how because like, yes, they're both they're both
Speaker 1: the right leading parties. But here's the difference for how
Speaker 1: they actually operate is that one of them is way
Speaker 1: more passive in their observing of reality, and one is
Speaker 1: is okay with getting their hands dirty and actually forcing
Speaker 1: this type of reality altering changes. I will say, I
Speaker 1: think like one thing to close this out is that
Speaker 1: you know, we can we when we can tie this
Speaker 1: all the way back to the second part of the
Speaker 1: Due of Higher episode, which is that the Niokon Neokon
Speaker 1: project doesn't work. And the reason it doesn't work is
Speaker 1: that you know, they they like they basically they lose
Speaker 1: militarily and that just that implodes the entire project. And
Speaker 1: so you know, and if if if if you look
Speaker 1: back at like all of this stuff about how we
Speaker 1: can shape reality, we can shape reality, we can shape reality.
Speaker 1: That stopped being true the moment that you know, like
Speaker 1: they lose control of Bosra or like you know, all
Speaker 1: like they when the other people uh Alsader is to
Speaker 1: be unkillable by all the weapons of Empire. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like you know, and and Sawder and Solder does
Speaker 1: this by like you know, Sauder sets up a bunch
Speaker 1: of baby clinics, right, He's like, here's a bunch of clinics.
Speaker 1: Here we we we will will give help the pregnant mothers,
Speaker 1: like are you guys really gonna shoot us? And you know,
Speaker 1: he build a militia around this and he's and he's
Speaker 1: able to like he's one of the smartest people on
Speaker 1: the planet. He's yeah, and it's not a good guy,
Speaker 1: but like completely shatter the neo kons like they they're dead,
Speaker 1: Like they don't like that that project which was like
Speaker 1: the culmination of this this incredible like that described on
Speaker 1: electro prodectsble military project and they got their absolute as
Speaker 1: kick by watch of people doing dual power. Yep, I think,
Speaker 1: and I I really, I do want to talk more
Speaker 1: about kind of chaos magic and there's a lot on
Speaker 1: the pot ground and I think, but yeah, I think
Speaker 1: this is a great interesting how the how these concepts
Speaker 1: overlapped with politics and reality. Disagree on the end of
Speaker 1: this with one aspect, Garrison, because you said their reality
Speaker 1: can't be pierced, but the ancient texts speak of a
Speaker 1: spear that once pierced the side of Christ itself, and
Speaker 1: while Hitler held it, his armies were send it, but
Speaker 1: it was stolen. And if we can find the Sparrison,
Speaker 1: we can pierce their reality. Hey, I have a Fedora,
Speaker 1: I have a whip. We could we all have fedora, Garrison,
Speaker 1: Let's do it. Let's go. We are. We are off
Speaker 1: to find the spear that sides us off, the Spear
Speaker 1: of Destiny. You can follow our adventures happened here pod
Speaker 1: and Nicolson Media on Twitter. Um and yeah, I'm sure
Speaker 1: we will give you updates for our spirit ventures at
Speaker 1: the pod. Sophie, we need half a million dollars to
Speaker 1: find the Spirit of Destiny. Okay, great, see you on
Speaker 1: the other side, Hey, lead the listeners take here. Last
Speaker 1: season on Lethal Lit, you might remember I came to
Speaker 1: Hollow Falls on a mission clearing my aunt best name
Speaker 1: and making sure justice was finally served. But I hadn't
Speaker 1: counted on a rap show of new murders tearing apart
Speaker 1: the town. My mission put myself and my friends in danger.
Speaker 1: Though it wasn't all bad, I'm going to be real
Speaker 1: Ify Tig, I like you, But now all signs point
Speaker 1: to a new serial killer in Hollow Falls. If this
Speaker 1: game is just starting, you better believe I'm gonna win.
Speaker 1: I'm Tig Torres and this is Lethal Lit. Catch up
Speaker 1: on season one of the hit murder mystery podcast Lethal Lit.
Speaker 1: A tag Torre's mystery out now, and then tune in
Speaker 1: for all new thrills in the season two, dropping weekly
Speaker 1: starting February nine. Subscribe now to never miss an episode.
Speaker 1: Listen to Leave a Lit on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The art
Speaker 1: world it is essentially a money laundering business. The best
Speaker 1: fakes are still hanging off people's walls. You know they
Speaker 1: don't even know or suspect that they're fakes. I'm out
Speaker 1: like Baldwin and this is a podcast about deception, greed
Speaker 1: and forgery in the art world. You knew the painting
Speaker 1: was fake. Um. Listen to Art Fraud starting February one
Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. I call the Union Hall as
Speaker 1: his matter, life and death. I thank these peoples of
Speaker 1: planning to kill Dr King. On April four, Dr Martin
Speaker 1: Luther King was shot and killed in Memphis. A petty
Speaker 1: criminal named James Earl Ray was arrested. He pled guilty
Speaker 1: to the crime and spent the rest of his life
Speaker 1: in prison. Case closed right, James L. Ray was upon
Speaker 1: for the official story. The authorities would parade all we
Speaker 1: found a gun the James L. Ray bought in Birmingham
Speaker 1: the kill Dr King, except it isn't the gun that
Speaker 1: killed Dr. King. One of the problems that came out
Speaker 1: when I got the ray case was that some of
Speaker 1: the evidence, as far as I was concerned, did not
Speaker 1: match the circumstances. This is the MLK tapes. The first
Speaker 1: episodes are available now. Listen on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Kill them
Speaker 1: All this has been it could happen here. The show
Speaker 1: where I just kill them all. Harrison and Chris want
Speaker 1: to let's take over. Oh boys, woke up. I haven't
Speaker 1: have coffee yet. That is incredibly spooky, urging murder. Well,
Speaker 1: it is spooky. You're right, this is true. I didn't
Speaker 1: realize that until just now. But retroactively that makes it fine,
Speaker 1: extreme spoky. Yeah, what are we doing? Who are we?
Speaker 1: We're we're doing We're where it can happen here. We're
Speaker 1: doing this is this is This is a a podcast
Speaker 1: where we talk about spooky stuff that happens around Halloween,
Speaker 1: and today we are doing the spookiest thing of all,
Speaker 1: which will be revealed shortly. Oh boy, I hope it's
Speaker 1: Will Wheaton. Is not what Wheaton? Well, unfortunately, I really
Speaker 1: I really should have looked for that tie in because
Speaker 1: there might be one is a CIA asset, we might
Speaker 1: get there. I don't know. Okay, see this is this
Speaker 1: is I'm hacking a fraud and I didn't actually look
Speaker 1: into this. Well we missed it, you and most journalists. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, what are we? What are we doing? What
Speaker 1: are we doing? On June four, a rancher named W. W.
Speaker 1: Mac Brazil and his son Vernon We're driving me across
Speaker 1: their property when they encountered quote a large area of
Speaker 1: bright wreckage made up of strips, tinfoil, and rather tough
Speaker 1: paper and sticks. Yeah me too, Just a regular night
Speaker 1: in in in Oregon. But yeah, yeah, well buzzles back
Speaker 1: in a time where people are baffled when weird things happened,
Speaker 1: instead of going oh it's Tuesday, so oh man, what
Speaker 1: a time. Yeah, so they didn't just go straight to Twitter. No, no,
Speaker 1: he he, you know, he doesn't. That was actually, you know,
Speaker 1: I kind of like reasonably a reasonably responsible thing to do,
Speaker 1: in which is that he spends about a week like
Speaker 1: picking up all of the scraps that he can and
Speaker 1: like putting them in a box and he he drives
Speaker 1: it to the sheriff and the sheriff, his name is George.
Speaker 1: That says a lot about the difference in urgency back then,
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, this is important, I'll spend a
Speaker 1: week getting everything together, take it off to the share.
Speaker 1: Like before the Internet you could really afford to sit.
Speaker 1: It was an era in which like if you had
Speaker 1: a busy life, three things happened. Okay, yeah. So so
Speaker 1: George Wilcox, the sheriff, looks at this and it's like,
Speaker 1: I have no idea what any of this crap is, Like,
Speaker 1: what is happening? So he takes it to Roswell Air
Speaker 1: Force Base for further investigation. Now, Colonel Butch Blanche, the
Speaker 1: commander of Roswell Airfields five O nine Composite Group you
Speaker 1: know it send sends a team out to analyze the wreckage,
Speaker 1: which includes an Air Force intelligence officer named Major Major
Speaker 1: Jesse Marcel. Now Marcel gives a now infamous series of
Speaker 1: quotes to the media that results in the Roswell Daily
Speaker 1: Record running the sentence quote. The Intelligence office of the
Speaker 1: five O ninth Bombardment Group at Roswell Airfield announced that
Speaker 1: noon that the field has come into possession of a
Speaker 1: flying saucer. Now this is the birth. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: this isn't the birth of modern ufiology, but this is
Speaker 1: you know this, this is one of the most important
Speaker 1: error events. And the pictures do rule all of all
Speaker 1: of the Roswell pictures are super rat because it's just
Speaker 1: random ship in the field, and they're like, it's aliens.
Speaker 1: There's a random ship in the field. Now this this
Speaker 1: is all happening to be just like like scattered sort
Speaker 1: of reports of UFOs that have been cropping up throughout
Speaker 1: the sort of like the post war era. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: the next day, the Air Force releases a statement saying
Speaker 1: there's no flying saucer in the wreckage. Is just an
Speaker 1: air balloon? Is this you know it's it's it's just yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the airport sure air Force weather balloon. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're lying. Everyone knows they're lying. But this is where
Speaker 1: things get bad because when Mark Brasil really discovered with
Speaker 1: something even spookier and more sinister than aliens. Mark Brazil
Speaker 1: had discovered was the American military Industrial complex. It turned out,
Speaker 1: Oh it's it's it's real spooky. It's yeah, we're right.
Speaker 1: By by the end of this episode, they will have
Speaker 1: I had to cut two times they almost killed everyone
Speaker 1: on Earth. Okay, well all right, so we're gonna be
Speaker 1: judging folks for almost killing everyone on Earth, like you
Speaker 1: haven't almost killed everyone on Earth. Come on, that's true,
Speaker 1: that's true. Podcasting saves me from a mass distinction of
Speaker 1: the entire human race and will eventually end all life
Speaker 1: on this planet. I believe in podcasting's potential to kill
Speaker 1: absolutely everyone. Yeah, it's it's great, it's it's a time.
Speaker 1: It's actually you know this part part of this is
Speaker 1: actually going to be about how we get to the
Speaker 1: point where everyone is podcasting on the internet. De belt
Speaker 1: things that that does. This does absolutely plagued in to
Speaker 1: the Swell incident. Yeah, because there's a there's a strong
Speaker 1: line between ship like Coast to Coast FM and the
Speaker 1: old like conspiracy you know, the precursors to that alien
Speaker 1: UFO whatever radio shows and ship on the on the
Speaker 1: wide band back in the day, and uh in podcasts
Speaker 1: where we are right now. Yep, it's it's great, it's
Speaker 1: a it's a good time. We're descended from great media.
Speaker 1: We're going to continue to produce green media where totally
Speaker 1: not just like an extremely a much larger version of
Speaker 1: the radio broadcast you get right before genocide. That's like,
Speaker 1: that's not what's happening here. It's all in fact good
Speaker 1: and cool. I mean, this is why I tell people
Speaker 1: too get machetes. It's true that was a bad made
Speaker 1: that made that comment. Look, we just we we just
Speaker 1: we just we just got to make sure only ways
Speaker 1: to blaze on right ahead. Now, the Air Force is
Speaker 1: lying out of its ass. But the Air Force isn't
Speaker 1: lying out of its ass because they have a flying saucer.
Speaker 1: The Air Force knows precisely what they've gotten their hands
Speaker 1: on here because the other identified flying object that has
Speaker 1: trashed at Roswell is actually something called Project Mogul. Now
Speaker 1: to understand Project Mogul, we need to go back a
Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, in the US drops two nuclear bombs
Speaker 1: of Japan. And this does a lot of things literally
Speaker 1: all of which are bad um. And what one of
Speaker 1: which is that it sets off a sort of and
Speaker 1: it's it sets off you know, the thing that we
Speaker 1: all live in now, which is the nuclear arms race
Speaker 1: between the U S and the U S s R.
Speaker 1: Who you know, but pretty quickly after World War two
Speaker 1: are just bitter enemies, and you know, but there's just
Speaker 1: bores raging across the world between communist anti companist forces.
Speaker 1: This is what's war in China, I mean in Greece,
Speaker 1: which I think people know. People know more about the
Speaker 1: Chinese of war, people know less about Greece. Were just
Speaker 1: like the British. The British are like, oh, the Communist
Speaker 1: are gonna take power, So they just like give all
Speaker 1: the guns back to the fascist and they start doing
Speaker 1: the Holocaust again, and that you know, sets off this
Speaker 1: own another civil war there. And you know, as as
Speaker 1: as Europe becomes you know, divided between the two great powers,
Speaker 1: the US becomes increasingly worried about the USS are crying
Speaker 1: acquiring their own nuclear weapons. So to detect the potential
Speaker 1: Soviet nuclear test, the US embarked on Project Mogil. Project
Speaker 1: Mogil sent six d and fifty seven foot balloons. These
Speaker 1: are like massively, they're twice the size that's actually of liberty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: those balloons are bigger than a balloon needs to be. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're they're too large. It's too big for balloons. And
Speaker 1: they so they load these balloons with like sensor and
Speaker 1: listening equipment to like detecting nuclear detonation. They like they
Speaker 1: like float them into the upper jet stream and the
Speaker 1: jetteam like pushed them to Russia. Is sort of the
Speaker 1: plan behind it, and this sort of works, except the
Speaker 1: Russians don't have nukes yet. So yeah, this, by the way,
Speaker 1: is also why the song Red Balloons was not just
Speaker 1: a banger but also very realistic, because we absolutely could
Speaker 1: have had a nuclear exchange over some fucking balloons. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: actually I don't I'm not sure there's any direct balloon
Speaker 1: related near nuclear exchanges in this episode, but don't worry.
Speaker 1: It happened. Yeah, well, you know, and what what what
Speaker 1: it did actually do was you know, set off the
Speaker 1: modern UFO thing because you know, one of these balloons
Speaker 1: like fails and it's it's views the records around and
Speaker 1: you know there's, yeah, this this, you know, this is this.
Speaker 1: Then you see a bunch of the problems that are
Speaker 1: gonna happen with the rest of how the course of
Speaker 1: UFOs go, because you know, you have initially the government's
Speaker 1: like we have a flying saucer and then they turn
Speaker 1: around and do this like incredibly half ass cover up
Speaker 1: that like everyone knows his fake and you know, so
Speaker 1: you know, because Americans are Americans, they don't assume that
Speaker 1: like the US is, you know, creating a devastating new
Speaker 1: surveillance and intelligence program that would be used to further
Speaker 1: total nuclear war. Instead they go, it's aliens, Yeah, because
Speaker 1: we're great at okoins Razor. Yeah, yeah, it's it's a time.
Speaker 1: But I think what's really important here is it what
Speaker 1: Brazil had actually made first contact with was America's new
Speaker 1: thermal nuclear monarchy. And this is something that I think
Speaker 1: more people should talk about, which is that having nukes
Speaker 1: just as a thing massively centralizes power into sort of
Speaker 1: individual people and the executive branch. Because you know, so
Speaker 1: if you have nuclear weapons, right, the theory is that
Speaker 1: you have to have one person who presses the button
Speaker 1: to shoot them, and you can't have like, you know,
Speaker 1: there's not enough time for like a parliamentary delivered or
Speaker 1: body to like set the dukes off. And so this
Speaker 1: becomes this rationale for enormously centralizing the party executive branch.
Speaker 1: And this this produces an absolutely terrifying new wage of
Speaker 1: state secrecy, filled with increasingly powerful and clandestine government agencies
Speaker 1: and bureaucracies ranging from the CIA are Good Friends to
Speaker 1: the much lesser known Atomic Energy Commission and these agencies
Speaker 1: the power of their secrecy is so strong that I mean,
Speaker 1: by the Atomic Energy Commissions, like successor agency decides that
Speaker 1: they can keep secrets from the president on the basis
Speaker 1: that the president does not need to know, which is
Speaker 1: absolutely horrifying. Well yeah, I mean, look, it's just you've
Speaker 1: got a democracy, and that's going to be a problem
Speaker 1: because it in democracy people presumably to make choices, and
Speaker 1: if you don't want them to decide not to continue
Speaker 1: making weird ship to throw into the sky, then you
Speaker 1: know why, you probably should just not tell anybody anything. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: and that that particular story is also grim I it's
Speaker 1: one thing that was debating covering they're they're covering up
Speaker 1: the fact that they deliberately poisoned enormous like hundreds and
Speaker 1: hundreds of people with radiation to do human testing on them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it doesn't need to know this, Like it doesn't need
Speaker 1: to know about you know. I mean it's like we
Speaker 1: don't tell Sophie. Guys, a lot of the things that
Speaker 1: we do our budget. Um, like when we irradiated all
Speaker 1: those people for a podcast, we're we're still not telling
Speaker 1: Sophie that, Yeah, it could happen here black budget remain secret. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is a lot of money. Please continue. Now. All
Speaker 1: of the secrecy around this, and the fact that these
Speaker 1: cover ups are like the most half asked ship anyone
Speaker 1: has ever seen, you know it could it fuels his
Speaker 1: rampant speculation around UFOs and the conspiracy theorists are also
Speaker 1: aided by the fact that people keep seeing weird flying objects.
Speaker 1: Be sure, do we love We love to see weird
Speaker 1: ship in this guy. We are very good at it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's we're incredible. It's see it and this guy is
Speaker 1: full of weird. It's true. I saw crow the other day. Anyway. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in hundreds of people start who are on airplanes start
Speaker 1: seeing these just enormous flaming crosses flying in possibly high
Speaker 1: and possibly fastened the sky, and publicly KKs gained space flight.
Speaker 1: It's it's worse than that. It's it's the people. The
Speaker 1: people doing this are worse than the KKK, which is
Speaker 1: what a sentence. It's great, it's yeah. So so you know,
Speaker 1: in public, the US governments like whatever, these aren't the thing,
Speaker 1: they're fake, whatever their mediological disservices. In private, the passengers
Speaker 1: who are on these jets that that see these flaming
Speaker 1: Crosses are all detained the FBI and sworn to secrecy
Speaker 1: after providing accounts of what they'd seen. Awesome and yeah,
Speaker 1: and this this is also part of the surf uf
Speaker 1: OL mythology. And this does actually happen like that, The
Speaker 1: FBI does actually show up to these people. Well, that's
Speaker 1: who you send in when you want people to stop
Speaker 1: wondering if something shady is going on. Yeah. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: when I hear the FBI is telling people to shut
Speaker 1: up about something, I think, well, that's not worth looking
Speaker 1: into it all. When you have five men in suits
Speaker 1: and sunglasses show at your door and talk about something,
Speaker 1: you know, that means definitely thing is fine and normal.
Speaker 1: You know what I don't think of when I think
Speaker 1: of the FBI UFO cover ups. It's great. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is this is This is America's first contact with yet
Speaker 1: another new part of his clandestine military military bureaucracy. Area
Speaker 1: fifty one. Area fifty one is a secret military aeronautics
Speaker 1: research and development facility built on a salt flat called
Speaker 1: Lake Groom inside the massive Nevada Test and Training Range UM.
Speaker 1: This place, by the way, this place is massive. This
Speaker 1: place is like the size of connect Like, it's like
Speaker 1: larger than Connecticut, It's larger than than most of the
Speaker 1: eastern state. Yeah, it's enormous. And but you know, it's
Speaker 1: something I think it's very interesting about this is that,
Speaker 1: for all it's mystique, Area fifty one is not the
Speaker 1: most dangerous facility on the Nevada tests and training right now.
Speaker 1: That's they're fifty two, the sub level below where they
Speaker 1: store the real weird ship. Yeah. Okay, so I watched
Speaker 1: I watched a few YouTube videos. I think I know
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about definitely, so that we are actually
Speaker 1: going to get to all right, Yeah, well, the thing,
Speaker 1: the thing that's actually really dangerous is areas twelve, nineteen,
Speaker 1: and twenty, because that's the Nevada areas. Do these motherfucker's names.
Speaker 1: There's a damn all these things, yeah, all the others,
Speaker 1: because I mean this, this this is like a state
Speaker 1: sized like testing facility. Right, Okay, they get all these
Speaker 1: fucking areas, but the branch Davidians have one compound where
Speaker 1: they don't even do very many illegal things, and suddenly
Speaker 1: it's a problem. Here's the thing that let's see how
Speaker 1: it is. Video has never had nukes and that that
Speaker 1: that that could could you imagine though, pretty amazed. You
Speaker 1: know what, if they'd had nukes about like a D,
Speaker 1: people would still be alive maybe for everyone would be dead. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's two a D people would be alive or everyone
Speaker 1: on Earth would be dead. So Area fifty one is
Speaker 1: the partner of the Nevada test site, which which is
Speaker 1: areas twelveth, nineteen and twenty, and that's where the real
Speaker 1: dangerous ship happens, which is the US test nuclear weapons there. Okay,
Speaker 1: but we need to make it clear at the outset
Speaker 1: we should not be underestimating Area fifty one. That place
Speaker 1: has done irreparable harm to the cause of world peace
Speaker 1: and very nearly like cause us all to go extinct
Speaker 1: several times. So do not underestimate the power of of
Speaker 1: of military spy airplanes yeah can lead us all destruction.
Speaker 1: Are honestly way more way more spooky than any little
Speaker 1: gray creatures at large. Different various planes, just with cameras
Speaker 1: on them have gotten us closer to the extermination of
Speaker 1: all life on Earth and basically anything else except for
Speaker 1: that one computer buck that the Russians had that would
Speaker 1: have killed us all if not for Petrov. I think
Speaker 1: his name is I forget his last name. That one
Speaker 1: guy who was like, we're not going to have a
Speaker 1: nuclear war right now, Well, there's there's a lot this is.
Speaker 1: This is Weirdly the Soviets come out looking like yeah,
Speaker 1: so yeah. It's like every every time there's almost a
Speaker 1: nuclear war, it's like it doesn't happen because the Soviets
Speaker 1: are like no, and the Americans are like, we want
Speaker 1: this war and the like. When it comes to atomic
Speaker 1: apocalypse stories, if you, if you, if you tally up
Speaker 1: all the columns, because the Soviets definitely have a few
Speaker 1: in their side, but it winds up way more fucked
Speaker 1: up nuke incidents on the U S side of things
Speaker 1: than the Soviet side of things, although there wasn't. That
Speaker 1: time they built a bomb so big that it might
Speaker 1: have changed to the tilt of the earth if they had,
Speaker 1: and at the last moment they were like, let's take
Speaker 1: half of the zile material out of this. This like
Speaker 1: a bad idea, It's it's great. Yeah, so so speak
Speaker 1: speaking of bad ideas involving in involving nuclear weapons. So
Speaker 1: oh no, I thought, speaking speaking ideas, you know what
Speaker 1: else will change the tilt of the earth? The products
Speaker 1: and services, their quality. It's so intent that it's like
Speaker 1: the Czarre bomba. It is just like that explosive potential. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Area fifty one was founded in nineteen fifty one by
Speaker 1: the Atomic Energy Commission, a federal agency established as a
Speaker 1: successor to the mother of all black projects, the Manhattan Project.
Speaker 1: Now black projects are secret off the book's military defense projects,
Speaker 1: the existence of which are kept secret even from Congress,
Speaker 1: which is a totally cool and normal thing to have
Speaker 1: in a democracy when you're representative body does not know
Speaker 1: what what out what what the military is doing. Now,
Speaker 1: Avery fifty one is interesting because it's it's basically like
Speaker 1: a black project of a black project. It's so secret
Speaker 1: that like the Vice President lb J, who is like
Speaker 1: not a funk off vice president, right, is this is
Speaker 1: lb J? Like LBJ, He's he's like type yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: And and she's also gonn show up the story briefly
Speaker 1: but yeah, like even he didn't actually really know what
Speaker 1: was going on there until like after JFK was assassinated.
Speaker 1: So this this place is really secret, and as best
Speaker 1: we can tell, in its first four years, it was
Speaker 1: essentially the Atomic Energy Commission I basically wanted a place
Speaker 1: to do off the books, like pilot and aircraft testing,
Speaker 1: and they were able to do the successfully that like
Speaker 1: we basically don't know what they did for four years.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but but but in the facility has taken
Speaker 1: over by an even spooky organization, the Central Intelligence Agency,
Speaker 1: our our old friends. Now that the CIA, you know,
Speaker 1: this is this n and the CIA has spent the
Speaker 1: early years of the Cold War getting just it's absolute
Speaker 1: ass handed to it in Europe because you know, this
Speaker 1: is what happens with a bunch of different Harvard grads
Speaker 1: in like yeah, because the people with acid and that's
Speaker 1: all they're doing. Yeah, yeah, but probise. So they're running
Speaker 1: into a real intelligence stategency, which is the KGB, who like,
Speaker 1: like those guys do not sunk around. They don't just
Speaker 1: poison people with acid. They they they're they they're they're
Speaker 1: much much more intense than than the early fifties the CIA. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and so and so they have this real problem which
Speaker 1: is that they the CIA basically can't get intelligence out
Speaker 1: of Eastern Europe, which is bad when your whole, like
Speaker 1: your entire like state is based off of like fighting
Speaker 1: Eastern Europe. So the kin of your main target. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So the solution is to fly a plane really high
Speaker 1: over Russia and uses to take pictures. Now seems good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I think like this sounds like I think kind
Speaker 1: of banal to us in the twenty one century, where
Speaker 1: like this is this is like this is like this
Speaker 1: is like pre satellite Yeah yeah, and and you know,
Speaker 1: like like we were all just sort of used to
Speaker 1: the fact that like the government is buying on us
Speaker 1: at all times. We sure are, but you know, in
Speaker 1: in in the nine this is incredibly radical. Like the
Speaker 1: the US, the US has only had intelligent agencies for
Speaker 1: like ten years, and there is no precedent at all.
Speaker 1: There's none, no precedent for flying surveillance over a country
Speaker 1: you aren't actively at war with, Like the only reason
Speaker 1: you flying airplane over countries if you're about to bomb them.
Speaker 1: People should note also that like the first ten years
Speaker 1: or so that we had an intelligence industry, every single
Speaker 1: or that we had ant like intelligence agencies, every single
Speaker 1: vote for funding them, every single like vote for giving
Speaker 1: them new powers was like universally supported by both parties.
Speaker 1: There was there was zero dissent about whether or not
Speaker 1: we should have a c I, A and they should
Speaker 1: have a giant black budget to do all sorts of
Speaker 1: scary ship that might provoke a nuclear war. People are
Speaker 1: just like, well, of course it's really bad. And I
Speaker 1: think this is this is you know, this is what
Speaker 1: Area fifty one actually is. The Area fifty one is
Speaker 1: the place where the development is, the permanent intelligent industrial
Speaker 1: complex is permanently solidified. And this all starts with the
Speaker 1: U two. Now, the CIA brings in Lucked Martin and
Speaker 1: a little known but very powerful and influential defense contractor
Speaker 1: called E. G and G. Who I mean, they do
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff, but that's such a defense contractor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's like it's the ultimate defense contra nation,
Speaker 1: actual name, and nobody knows who they are because they
Speaker 1: make like cameras and like film equipment and stuff. But like,
Speaker 1: you know, so these are the people who like made
Speaker 1: the cameras that could take pictures of nuclear Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, and so and so the CIA brings
Speaker 1: them all to this like remote testing Rage in Nevada
Speaker 1: to work in a secret project called Dragon Lady. Now
Speaker 1: in its early stages, Area fifty one is so secret
Speaker 1: that like even the Air Force doesn't know about it,
Speaker 1: and this like really pisss off the Air Forces senior
Speaker 1: senior generals, in particular a guy who was going to
Speaker 1: become very important to the story, Air Force General Curtis LeMay,
Speaker 1: who like that man like that. I I don't say
Speaker 1: this very often about historical figures, but like if someone
Speaker 1: had assassinated General Curtis Lemie, the world like we would
Speaker 1: like the amount safer that the world would have been.
Speaker 1: Described the architects of saturation bombing started in World War
Speaker 1: Two and continuing. Uh and from up to now we
Speaker 1: didn't stop. And that is that is not the worst
Speaker 1: thing he's involved in. Yeah, now, but in Lomay is
Speaker 1: extremely piste off that the CIA doesn't tell them about this,
Speaker 1: and he's going to remember that that that's gonna become
Speaker 1: important later in this story. But eventually the CIA is
Speaker 1: forced to bring the Air Force into Area fifty one
Speaker 1: for a number of reasons, partially because they're flying airplanes
Speaker 1: and partially because the YouTube is kind of a piece
Speaker 1: of ship, you know, and part of it Okay, so
Speaker 1: they're learning how to fly plane is really high for
Speaker 1: the first time, but you know the YouTube if you
Speaker 1: fly it too slowly. It's stalls, which is like, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's kind of a normal airplane. The you the YouTube
Speaker 1: is an amazing aircraft because it just as the most
Speaker 1: absurd pieces of aviation equipment ever designed, and like watching
Speaker 1: those things take off and land is the most funny
Speaker 1: thing on that's wild. Like the other problem is like
Speaker 1: as a stalling problem, but also has the problem if
Speaker 1: you fly it too fast, the wings will fall off.
Speaker 1: Okay's plane, Chris. It's so it's so massive and so fragile.
Speaker 1: The wings are so heavy and so large. It's one
Speaker 1: of the most ridiculous pieces of equipment ever designed. It's
Speaker 1: it's it's incredible. So yeah, so the CIA needs help
Speaker 1: to get this thing working. And so the result is
Speaker 1: that Area fifty one at this point is is staffed
Speaker 1: by about it's one third CIA, one third Air Force,
Speaker 1: and one third Locking Martin. What a what a combination
Speaker 1: these are the god, can you imagine that cafeteria. The conversations.
Speaker 1: It's wild too, because it's like, because you have a
Speaker 1: bunch of just like spooks, right, You're a bunch of
Speaker 1: just like people. And then there's just like a bunch
Speaker 1: of test pilots who are like just nuts and have
Speaker 1: been like a bunch of like like people who are
Speaker 1: like genuine war heroes who like fought in World War
Speaker 1: two but then went turned around and like it did
Speaker 1: horrible war crimes and like Koreas like Tom Cruise from
Speaker 1: Top Gun but with horrible PTSD and Michael Douglas from
Speaker 1: falling down. He hasn't picked up a gun yet. We can,
Speaker 1: we can, we can mention this now. So top the
Speaker 1: reason that Top Gun exists is actually also AREAFT one?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, Because at one point the US, like
Speaker 1: so the Israeli's managed to convince it was three pilots
Speaker 1: to defect, and then they gave the airplane to the US,
Speaker 1: and so the US spent a bunch of time like
Speaker 1: flying this big twenty three a round and figuring out
Speaker 1: how it worked. And that's how they like trained they
Speaker 1: basically trained all their pilots because they suddenly do how
Speaker 1: the Biggs worked, and that's that's the origin of the
Speaker 1: top Gun program. But then also hilariously that the Biggs
Speaker 1: got their revenge when when an Air Force general whose
Speaker 1: name is whose name is I am not making this up.
Speaker 1: His name is General Bond and he was like he's
Speaker 1: like shows up you want like I want to fly,
Speaker 1: I want to fly and make eighteen and they're like okay, buddy,
Speaker 1: And then he just flew into a mountain and died,
Speaker 1: which okay, well all right, we have turned my opinions.
Speaker 1: Yeah he was, which is like a really that is
Speaker 1: the fast, difficult to control plane. Just that rules, that
Speaker 1: rules so hard. I see, I was. You just completely
Speaker 1: changed my opinion of this man. That is that is
Speaker 1: the that is incredibly based. Unfortunately, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: other way more depressing plane crashes that happens here. And
Speaker 1: part of the reason it's bad is because you know
Speaker 1: this this whole thing is a black I have trouble
Speaker 1: imagine being depressed about anyone there die. Oh it's it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of so there there's a I don't really
Speaker 1: care as much about the people. But like so there's
Speaker 1: a bunch of like fourteen of the people who are
Speaker 1: flying you twos like die and they like they crashed
Speaker 1: into a mountain and one of that about and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but but that sucks about it? Is it like like
Speaker 1: the U. S. Government lies to their families for like
Speaker 1: half a century about how they died. It's like this sucks,
Speaker 1: But then it gets even worse because again this is
Speaker 1: you know, this, this is the Black Project of like
Speaker 1: all black projects, and that means that they have a
Speaker 1: bunch of people from Operation paper Clip, because again this
Speaker 1: is a facility run by the CIA in the nineteen fifties,
Speaker 1: and so they let these literal not a bunch of
Speaker 1: literal Nazi Nazi doctors rut in durance test on potential
Speaker 1: YouTube pilots. Now, these doctors are Nazi concentration camp doctors
Speaker 1: who had performed horrific human experiments on people in the camps.
Speaker 1: So naturally when they do endurance test, they torture people.
Speaker 1: So they would do things like they would force pilots
Speaker 1: to like hold their arms under ice water for like
Speaker 1: it's on me long times. They would traft with the
Speaker 1: chairs just like randomly electrocute different parts of their body,
Speaker 1: and it was like it's it's a nightmare, Like it's yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, this is what happens when you give the
Speaker 1: Nazis free reign over completely secretesting facility where no one
Speaker 1: can even talk about what people did to them. It's
Speaker 1: it's great, it's great, it's it's this is this is
Speaker 1: why you don't have black projects because the Nazis wind
Speaker 1: up in charge of them and they torture people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think we're pretty we're pretty all on the same
Speaker 1: page of not having really in the project's bad. Now,
Speaker 1: the CIA has another problem, which is which is a
Speaker 1: much weirder and funnier problem, which that people keep seeing
Speaker 1: their spy planes. Yeah, and so part of this is
Speaker 1: the original you twos were silver, which means that they
Speaker 1: reflected the sun and the flaming cross. Yeah, because first two,
Speaker 1: because they not that all Matt black yea like a
Speaker 1: chromed a chrome. Doubt you too, what do th like?
Speaker 1: It looks like us incredible? Yeah, and it's but you know,
Speaker 1: like this this this is you know, this causes like
Speaker 1: a huge number of the UFO settings just people seeing
Speaker 1: this thing and and eventually they're like, wait, we have
Speaker 1: to make this black because like having a spy plane
Speaker 1: that glows in the sun. Yes, that idea now and
Speaker 1: worse yet, so you know, the you two can fly
Speaker 1: at like sixty five feet, which is its way outside
Speaker 1: the range of anti aircraft guns. It is ridiculously how
Speaker 1: hig how high that plane can go. But the CIA,
Speaker 1: in their eternal hubrists assumes that it's also too high
Speaker 1: for the Soviet radar to work, and so what happens
Speaker 1: instead is that they fly a YouTube directly over the
Speaker 1: Kremlin to like take pictures of Recruise Trevice sleeping, and
Speaker 1: the Soviets just immediately see it and they get really
Speaker 1: piste off because again, like there's no precedent for flying
Speaker 1: a spy plane over a country you're not at war with,
Speaker 1: and they're like, what the funk? Why are you flying planes?
Speaker 1: The problem is that they can't actually like shoot them
Speaker 1: down because the plane is too high up, so there's
Speaker 1: some they can just see it. Yeah, yeah, And but
Speaker 1: but the US is like, okay, this is not provocative enough, right,
Speaker 1: Like we've we've now flown we've now flown planes over
Speaker 1: the house of like a guy who can fire nuclear weapons.
Speaker 1: That's not that's incredibly funny. It is very funny. But
Speaker 1: they're like the So Curtis LeMay, who's all, anyway, we
Speaker 1: don't need to actions in front of Russian embassies, continues,
Speaker 1: So Lemmy is this guy, this guy is a threat
Speaker 1: to all humanity and he has this idea. Okay, he
Speaker 1: wants to figure out how the he want to figures
Speaker 1: out like how the the USR radar system works, and
Speaker 1: so his plan is he's going to get the USS
Speaker 1: are to trigger the radar system, and he's going to
Speaker 1: do this by flying a thousand B forty seven bombers
Speaker 1: over Alaska and fly them like right at Soviet air
Speaker 1: space and then turn around the moment before they get in. Guys,
Speaker 1: come on, there's other ways to do trolling, Like you
Speaker 1: don't need to Like, you don't need to risk the
Speaker 1: entire populations. Yeah, Garrison, see this is why you're not
Speaker 1: an A level troll. Level trolls know that if you're
Speaker 1: not risking the entire future of possibly all life in
Speaker 1: the known universe, then you're just there's other ways to
Speaker 1: make some friends. Makes makes some friends and troll your friends.
Speaker 1: It's not that hard. Come on, guys, troll the world
Speaker 1: by by playing chicken with its continued ability to any
Speaker 1: life above the microbial level, like the he has in
Speaker 1: credle about this. She was the only reason any of
Speaker 1: this works is that the Soviets, like in Soviets are
Speaker 1: not good. But the Soviets aren't who the Americans say
Speaker 1: they are, Like, you're not Like if if if the
Speaker 1: US had done this against the US, everyone on earth
Speaker 1: would have gone on the end of it. And and
Speaker 1: may like you can say, like wholmy. Someone asked him
Speaker 1: about this afterwards and his and she says, and I quote,
Speaker 1: with a little bit more luck, we could have started
Speaker 1: World War three. Oh man, this guy, this guy's a king.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, they are like that. They are all just
Speaker 1: like like this this is so bad that like the
Speaker 1: c i A. Sends a panel of like advisers to
Speaker 1: the President telling him that, like, you can't do this
Speaker 1: again because the Soviets will think it's an actual attack.
Speaker 1: When is calling you out, then yeah, I think it's
Speaker 1: time to it's time to wrap up shop. Think we're done.
Speaker 1: And the thing is like this is not the like
Speaker 1: the only just absolutely psychotic thing going on in this period,
Speaker 1: like a round are one. So in seven, the US
Speaker 1: test the first dirty bomb and they really don't know
Speaker 1: what this thing is gonna do. And it's like this
Speaker 1: is extremely danious or detonating a bomb it spiced putonium
Speaker 1: if youwhere, but just wait, uh, lest you think that
Speaker 1: detonating a dirty bomb was not dangerous enough. In they
Speaker 1: dropped something called the hood bomb, and this bomb, like
Speaker 1: the blast this. Okay, they drop this, brought this bomb
Speaker 1: in Nevada, right, the blast of this bomb blows out
Speaker 1: windows and l a people people see this is in
Speaker 1: people see the explosion in Canada. Great, they see in Mexico,
Speaker 1: like you can see it from eight hundred miles out
Speaker 1: to see. And the funniest part is that it temporarily
Speaker 1: renders Area fifty one uninhabitable and they forgot to tell
Speaker 1: the people and are if you want to evacuate, that
Speaker 1: is incredible. Everybody cancer incredibly Yeah, and then you know
Speaker 1: the people still want to work there and so they
Speaker 1: but this is like before they have hasmat suits. So
Speaker 1: they send a bunch of people in lab coats with
Speaker 1: like magnets to go collect radioactive bomb fragments so people
Speaker 1: can bring Great, that's extremely fun, just killing all of
Speaker 1: their I have no yeah, I have no problems with this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is fine. This is completely fine. We have had
Speaker 1: probably saved a lot of lives, honestly. Yeah. Well, the
Speaker 1: problem the problem is though they they like Area fifty
Speaker 1: one was allowed to resume and that like very nearly
Speaker 1: killed us all. Yeah, it's been like the more people
Speaker 1: that die there, if you want to get cancer, that
Speaker 1: probably odds are that contributes to it is it is
Speaker 1: It is slow death. I guess that's what everyone says
Speaker 1: about radiation poisoning. It happens too slowly. Yeah yeah, Now, okay,
Speaker 1: So every fifty ones you two's are like continuing to
Speaker 1: do flights and pissing off the Soviets. But unbeknown to
Speaker 1: the Americans, the Soviet anti air capacity was rapidly improving,
Speaker 1: and on Mayday nineteen sixty, the US pushes it too
Speaker 1: far and they send a pilot and Gary Powers to
Speaker 1: fly over the Soviet Union, and the Soviets just like
Speaker 1: shoot the shift out of him and this this is
Speaker 1: actually this really cute moment where like he crashes and
Speaker 1: he survived, and he's found by some radi Soviet farmer,
Speaker 1: and the Soviet farmer just like it's like, oh hey cool,
Speaker 1: just like gives them a cigarette with Lucky of the
Speaker 1: Space Dog on it, and they have this very nice
Speaker 1: moment where they smoke a cigarette together, and then Powers
Speaker 1: gets arrested by the Soviet government and put on show
Speaker 1: for espionage. Now the interesting part about this is that
Speaker 1: so the US assumes that Powers is dead because when
Speaker 1: they designed the you tube, the Cia was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: if this they didn't tell the pilots, everyone will die.
Speaker 1: You are done. Yeah yeah. It's like but but you know,
Speaker 1: Powers lives through it, and so they they they the
Speaker 1: US is like claiming on life television that Powers was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this wasn't the spy plane. He was collecting high altitude
Speaker 1: weather data for the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics. This
Speaker 1: lets Kristiev has like his finest hour here is like
Speaker 1: incredible theatrical moment. He gives this incredible speech that's like
Speaker 1: he's he's like he's like asking like comrades, like what
Speaker 1: what would happen if Soviet planes flew over Detroit? An
Speaker 1: immediate war? And he goes on this thing about how
Speaker 1: he's accusing, like he's like, okay, so who who said
Speaker 1: the spy plane? And he's like, well, it couldn't be
Speaker 1: the American people. It must have been the American militarist
Speaker 1: running this spiplane program without the knowledge of the commander
Speaker 1: in chief. And so the US like keeps denying it,
Speaker 1: and then Christief a couple days later gainst this another
Speaker 1: incredible line. I'm gonna quote from this speech because it
Speaker 1: rules comrades. He said, I must let you win on
Speaker 1: a secret. When I made a report two days ago,
Speaker 1: I delivered refrained from mentioning that we have the remains
Speaker 1: of the plane and we also have the pilot who
Speaker 1: was quite alive and kicking, and the US just like
Speaker 1: it gets owned because safe. Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure
Speaker 1: this state is I'm sure this state isn't thrilled. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's like, it's an enormous embarrassment for this and
Speaker 1: this this is this is a couple of other great lines. So,
Speaker 1: so Gary Powers gets tried for espionage, and there's there's
Speaker 1: this incredible line this trial where Sergey Rodenko, who is
Speaker 1: this he's an Air Force general and he's also part
Speaker 1: of the trial, and he calls area fifty one quote
Speaker 1: a criminal conspiracy between quote a major American capitalist company
Speaker 1: and espionage and reconnaissance center and the military of the US.
Speaker 1: And this because this is this is literally what um
Speaker 1: you know, but but this is where everything goes to
Speaker 1: ship because there was supposed to be a massive like
Speaker 1: US USSR Pace summit to like look at the nuclearization
Speaker 1: uh huh yeah yeah, and so and and Kristef is like, okay, Eisenhower,
Speaker 1: you un need to apologize for flying spy planes over
Speaker 1: our country. And Eisenhower is like no, and this this, yeah,
Speaker 1: the conference is canceled and the world has plunged into
Speaker 1: mortal peril that will only barely survive. And but barely,
Speaker 1: I mean it's oh yeah, we got extremely lucky. Um
Speaker 1: all all of this basically causes cruise shift to like
Speaker 1: start the military build up in Cuba. And you know,
Speaker 1: you can see where this is going. But but don't
Speaker 1: worry less less you think that Area fifty one is
Speaker 1: only indirectly responsible for this. They are in fact directly
Speaker 1: responsible for the Cuban missile crisis. You know, they they
Speaker 1: they Air fifty one does they did? They do a
Speaker 1: bunch of other stuff that like funk with the Cubans
Speaker 1: that they have this thing with it. They send in
Speaker 1: pilots like right up the right up to to Cuban
Speaker 1: airspace and like have them basically trade missile locks with
Speaker 1: Soviet pilots so that they can test the Soviets like
Speaker 1: electronic weapons capacity. And it's like again, once again, we
Speaker 1: only didn't die because the Soviets didn't shoot after the
Speaker 1: U S did some like just absolutely we would have
Speaker 1: absolutely them people have done. Yeah, if if a MiG
Speaker 1: had buzzed like Washington, d C, we would have ended
Speaker 1: all humanity. Yeah, we share would have they fucking knew that. God?
Speaker 1: That has to be so frustrating. Yeah, Like not a
Speaker 1: lot of sympathy for the U S s R in
Speaker 1: my book, but just being like, well, this is unacceptable.
Speaker 1: But if we do literally just what they're doing to us,
Speaker 1: so I guess we have to be chills here. It's
Speaker 1: like yeah, well, and speaking of doing things, there's also
Speaker 1: there's also an incredible Bay of Pigs connection, which is
Speaker 1: that Richard Bassell, who's the guy who did Bay of Pigs,
Speaker 1: was the guy who read one. And one of the
Speaker 1: reasons why it fails is that so remember I talked
Speaker 1: about how the CIA piste off Curtis LeMay by not
Speaker 1: telling him about every one. So, uh, the May is
Speaker 1: supposed to send a bunch of B fifty two bombers
Speaker 1: to support the Bay of Pigs and he doesn't do it.
Speaker 1: And this defense is that he sucked like He's defense
Speaker 1: is that he sucked up the time zones, which I've missed. Hey,
Speaker 1: we've all missed meetings because of that I'm late all
Speaker 1: the time because at time zones. It's that that you
Speaker 1: know what, Curtis Lamy did nothing wrong. Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 1: And this this causes the cell, but yeah it doesn't
Speaker 1: work because it's a cluster fuck and this you know this,
Speaker 1: this causes the cell to get kicked out of the
Speaker 1: security establishment. But it it doesn't stop the U S
Speaker 1: fucking with Cuba. We still haven't stopped fighting. Yeah, we're
Speaker 1: like never going to It's it's incredible. And and but
Speaker 1: because this is the time that came closest to killing
Speaker 1: us all, which is that well, Chris, you know what
Speaker 1: will also eventually kill us all products and services. Yeah
Speaker 1: that's not even a joke, that's just true. Yeah, all
Speaker 1: of these things that is being sold for fake money.
Speaker 1: So yep, by products. And this is when Garrison goes
Speaker 1: on a rant about Fiat currency. We're back and we're
Speaker 1: talking about the the Fiat, which is certainly a car.
Speaker 1: I lost all I lost I lost with all the Fiat.
Speaker 1: Please everyone everyone sent me, send me what you can.
Speaker 1: I'll reinvest and give you back your money in a
Speaker 1: few days. You're gonna buy one of those fucking one
Speaker 1: of those eight bit illustration and f T s that
Speaker 1: costs two million dollars, aren't you Garrison? Oh you bet see?
Speaker 1: I heard, I heard now that they're making physical copies.
Speaker 1: This is a brand new phenomenon, making physical versions of
Speaker 1: an n f T so you can actually like have something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's basic, there is there's nothing else like this. It's
Speaker 1: like art, but you actually can have it. It's the
Speaker 1: first time. It's really Robert. You guys, you can't. You
Speaker 1: can't tell the public how are how how how how
Speaker 1: we funnel all of our money around for our black projects.
Speaker 1: You're not allowed to explain our money laundering schemes on air?
Speaker 1: You know. One one surprising thing about all of this,
Speaker 1: like Air one stuff is honestly the degree to which
Speaker 1: the government does not deflect stuff by using alien ship
Speaker 1: more often, because if they were smart, they could just
Speaker 1: use alien ship more often to deflect any suspicion about
Speaker 1: what's actually happening. So they I don't know, they go
Speaker 1: back and so so part of what's going so they
Speaker 1: go back and forth on this, and part of what's
Speaker 1: going on is the CIA when when when people start
Speaker 1: first reporting UFOs like they have to like concerns. One
Speaker 1: of which is that it's just going to cause panic
Speaker 1: in the US public and they don't want that they're
Speaker 1: doing this sort of like elite panic thing, and they're
Speaker 1: afraid they're once they will go insane or whatever. But
Speaker 1: the second thing that they're worried about is that they're
Speaker 1: really concerned that the Soviet Union is going to block
Speaker 1: out the U s IS early warning system by sending
Speaker 1: a bunch of a QFO reports, which would be very Funnyeah,
Speaker 1: it would be very funny, but you know, but so
Speaker 1: so they their initial line on UFOs is like they're
Speaker 1: they try, They spent a lot of time trying to
Speaker 1: get everyone to like not believe in them, because they're like,
Speaker 1: this is this is treading a sterea and it's like
Speaker 1: damaging our early warning capacity because people keep reporting, and
Speaker 1: also because people just keep seeing their spy planes and
Speaker 1: so they're just like, guys, there's no UFOs. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: we'll get to in a little bit of some more
Speaker 1: about that, because there's a lot of very weird stuff
Speaker 1: going on there. But first we have to almost end
Speaker 1: the world. All right, Let's let's just do that at first,
Speaker 1: and then in six two the CIA flies, It flies
Speaker 1: a YouTube over over Cuba and they get a bunch
Speaker 1: of pictures of nuclear weapons and this this is basically
Speaker 1: the thing that starts to cube At missile crisis. Although
Speaker 1: I also I also we need to talk about LeMay
Speaker 1: one more time because before they get these pictures, Lemy
Speaker 1: is convinced there's there's no nukes there. And LeMay wants
Speaker 1: to do a preactive strike on Cuba to stop the
Speaker 1: Soviets and bring missiles in, which again literally would have
Speaker 1: killed us. All yeah, yeah, but but let's let make
Speaker 1: us voted down. So the CIA, you know, sends the
Speaker 1: youtubes in and this this is the thing that starts
Speaker 1: to the starts to Cuban missile crisis, and you have
Speaker 1: the Soviets and Americans like staring each other down at sea.
Speaker 1: And but again because these people are just like like
Speaker 1: because there are if you do want people to see
Speaker 1: how people are just nuts, they keep sending UFOs and
Speaker 1: if they keep sending you twos over Cuba, and they
Speaker 1: they're sending youtubes over Cuba, and and the Americans like
Speaker 1: lyne on the you Tuesday sendever is if they shoot
Speaker 1: down a YouTube, we're going to invade. And so the
Speaker 1: Soviets actually do shoot shoot down a YouTube. But for
Speaker 1: like the only time ever in history, uh, the US
Speaker 1: is like, wait, maybe we shouldn't end all like literally
Speaker 1: end all humanity, and like we we got this because
Speaker 1: this moment, we're just like, you know, you get to
Speaker 1: actually so you have all the like just horrific leadership
Speaker 1: stuff that has got you here, but you get a
Speaker 1: moment where like the soul of humanity is tested in
Speaker 1: like a very small number of people, and it's like
Speaker 1: if any one of these people on either side flinches
Speaker 1: or like decides that they want to end all life
Speaker 1: on earth, everyone is going to die. And for one
Speaker 1: of like this is you know, this is like this
Speaker 1: is like one of the only times ever that it
Speaker 1: has actually mattered that we're not all just like terrible
Speaker 1: pieces of ship. And we didn't do it, and we
Speaker 1: didn't end all humanity, and eventually the whole, the whole
Speaker 1: thing is wound down. Alternatively, the people in charge realized
Speaker 1: that if they were doing this, they could no longer
Speaker 1: do whatever fun stuff they didn't their spare time. And
Speaker 1: it's only for selfish reason. Oh yeah, I mean, because yeah,
Speaker 1: the lead let me say, it's like the leaders get
Speaker 1: no credit here at all. The people who do get
Speaker 1: credit are just like the random assholes on a ship
Speaker 1: who like got sent over to the other side of
Speaker 1: the world and had to just like sit there knowing
Speaker 1: that they could be destroyed in any moments and then
Speaker 1: didn't panic and like held and kept kept everyone on
Speaker 1: Earth from dying by just not just like holding it
Speaker 1: together in a situation that would have just like destroyed
Speaker 1: most people. So so good good on, good on like
Speaker 1: the cruise of the ships for not killing us all. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: depending on how I feel now. Part part part of
Speaker 1: what's happening here is is the you tu is getting
Speaker 1: shot down. It makes the area fifty one people go,
Speaker 1: we need to build a faster plane. Sure, And so
Speaker 1: there's their solution to this is the A twelve ox cart.
Speaker 1: And the l oxcar is interesting because this is another
Speaker 1: thing that everyone thinks is the UFO but actually isn't.
Speaker 1: And I mean there's a very famous UFO picture of
Speaker 1: like one of NASA's like X fifteen rocket jets, and
Speaker 1: in the very like in the very corner of this
Speaker 1: rocket picture of the rocket jet, there's there's an A
Speaker 1: twelve and everyone is like, oh, this is UFO. Is
Speaker 1: the UFON is like, no, it's not, it's this. But
Speaker 1: you know, the CIA keeps doing these like halfass cover ups,
Speaker 1: but like like you can just see these out of
Speaker 1: passenger planes, like if you're in a plane, you just
Speaker 1: see it. It's like, oh, this thing looks like a
Speaker 1: cigar's flute past and they they do looking they do
Speaker 1: look incredibly weird. Yeah, and it just doesn't work. And eventually,
Speaker 1: in the mid sixties, Walter Cronkite like goes on TV
Speaker 1: and tells the American public at the CIA have been
Speaker 1: doing a UFO cover up, which is true, but everyone
Speaker 1: assumes this is about aliens. But it's not about aliens.
Speaker 1: Nothing you with aliens. It has everything to do with
Speaker 1: the fact that people keep seeing this biplanes. And so
Speaker 1: the Air Force gets put in charge of an investigation
Speaker 1: of UFOs. But the problem is that only a few
Speaker 1: top Air Force generals know about the A twelve. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they only a few people know what the existence of
Speaker 1: this aircraft. Yeah yeah, And so the low level investigators
Speaker 1: are like, oh, the Air Force is doing a uh
Speaker 1: cover up, which they are, but they assume that it's
Speaker 1: about aliens. And so a bunch of these people like
Speaker 1: turned into aliens like UFO conspiracy theorists, and yeah, because
Speaker 1: this is you know, and we're getting to see this
Speaker 1: the the US basically through it sort of like the
Speaker 1: secrecy on these programs, it just it keeps creating UFO conspiracies.
Speaker 1: And yeah, there there's some Okay, there's some question as
Speaker 1: to how to liberally they're doing this. Um So, the
Speaker 1: head of the National Investigation Committee on Aerial Phenomena, which
Speaker 1: is like the uf U s IS UFO Study Group
Speaker 1: in nine is taken over by Joseph Bran the Third, who,
Speaker 1: Joseph Brian the Third was the CIA's first chief of
Speaker 1: Political and Psychological Warfare. He seems like a solid dude
Speaker 1: to hang out with. Yeah, so I have no idea
Speaker 1: what that means does And there's there's some reports that
Speaker 1: there have been a couple of like books and documentaries
Speaker 1: and a lot and in the last like ten years
Speaker 1: that have repared that. Yes, but it basically reported that
Speaker 1: that people in the CIA deliberately fed like fake UFO
Speaker 1: information to people to cause people to like go even
Speaker 1: deeper into their conspiracy. Absolutely believe, Yeah, I would. I
Speaker 1: will say this, Okay, so, like this is the kind
Speaker 1: of thing the CIA would do, but the people who
Speaker 1: are giving the evidence are sketchy, and I mean, of course, yeah,
Speaker 1: like that that is yeah, that is kind of how
Speaker 1: that mean they probably feed it to a lot of people,
Speaker 1: and the people who talk about it, well, I mean
Speaker 1: so that the people were testifying a bet are people
Speaker 1: who allegedly did it, Yeah, which is interesting. But but
Speaker 1: the thing that well, the probably is weird about those
Speaker 1: people also just sort of they're like, oh, I spread
Speaker 1: this conspiracy, but like they they also want to get
Speaker 1: into the UFO scene. And so the question it's it's
Speaker 1: weird and it's a lot of weird conflicting interests going on.
Speaker 1: And this is this is one of the problems with
Speaker 1: the CIA, which is that like, okay, so there's there's
Speaker 1: there's a couple of there's like some important things you
Speaker 1: need to understand about the CIA. They're bad. You don't
Speaker 1: need conspiracy theories for that. They're just they're bad. They
Speaker 1: do a lot of bad things. Um, the CIA having
Speaker 1: done something is not in and of itself proof that
Speaker 1: they did another thing. So for example, like you can
Speaker 1: say that you like you know, you says think like
Speaker 1: the CIA is a mood base, right, and someone asked
Speaker 1: you for evidence that you can go, oh, well, they
Speaker 1: did Operation paper Clip and they're involved in development of
Speaker 1: rocket technology. But just because the CIA did Operation paper
Speaker 1: Clip and had rockets does not mean they have a
Speaker 1: moon base, right, Like this is this is this is
Speaker 1: something this something happens all the time when people talk
Speaker 1: about the CIA falling into Yeah, yeah, you cannot. You
Speaker 1: cannot use something that the CIA has done as direct
Speaker 1: evidence they did something else less there's a direct time
Speaker 1: between unless unless you have evidence that the other thing happened.
Speaker 1: There's other people who suck yeah yeah, And if the
Speaker 1: everything is, they're not omnipotence. And then this is what
Speaker 1: the example I always bring up because it's really funny.
Speaker 1: So the c i A just completely missed two two
Speaker 1: different Indian nuclear weapons tests like across two decades, Like
Speaker 1: not only did they not realize that that they were
Speaker 1: testing me happening soon like they didn't even know that
Speaker 1: India was doing tests at all. And then they yeah,
Speaker 1: so these news would go off and they would learn
Speaker 1: that the India was doing tests when Indiana of renounced
Speaker 1: on TV. So like they're they're not actually omnipotent. I think,
Speaker 1: I think what is this interesting. I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: you're in a type I'm not sure if you can
Speaker 1: bring this up shortly, but like this sort of thing
Speaker 1: is definitely is still happening in terms of like like
Speaker 1: air force pilots seeing weird stuff in this guy and
Speaker 1: then going to talk about it be like you know,
Speaker 1: it's just like this is some other aircraft. Usually it's
Speaker 1: it's usually usually we're able to actually like prove what
Speaker 1: these things are. Um, but like you know, military or
Speaker 1: people see stuff, they talk talk about the news, and
Speaker 1: the time, it was always weird. It's always been like
Speaker 1: some other like like civil arrest is happening when like
Speaker 1: we get some weird piece of information about UFL is
Speaker 1: like oh really, what a coincidence? And it's it's it's
Speaker 1: an interesting thing to be though, because like there's this
Speaker 1: kind of like weird interplace because like a lot of
Speaker 1: like like like senators and presidents like actually believe that
Speaker 1: there's UFOs and and this is like I mean the
Speaker 1: weird things, but like the different do you mean like
Speaker 1: UFOs are do mean like aliens? Well, like like aliens
Speaker 1: like this like that there are there are a lot
Speaker 1: of people in the government who do believe in aliens,
Speaker 1: and and and it's it's this weird tension because and
Speaker 1: a lot like everything is like like I don't know,
Speaker 1: Like Harry Read for example, was a big alien dude, right,
Speaker 1: but Harry Reid, like, I mean, I know he's very
Speaker 1: powerful in Nevadas, like maybe he knew, but like Harry
Speaker 1: Reid is not someone who knows what's happening in these
Speaker 1: black projects because they don't tell. They don't tell Congress, right,
Speaker 1: I mean he he might know because of how powerfully is,
Speaker 1: but like again, it's up in the even even the
Speaker 1: people who are supposed to be in charge, I don't
Speaker 1: know what's actually happening. And that means they fall for
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories because yeah, they felt conspiracy theories. And at
Speaker 1: this point, it's more of a it's more of a
Speaker 1: fandom than anything else. It's really easy to get sucked
Speaker 1: into a fandom. Like so I can't I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't trust any Congressman on any level specifically around this issue,
Speaker 1: because this is solely a fandom issue. It It's like
Speaker 1: it's like it's like taking their opinion on like religion.
Speaker 1: It's like I care zero amount because it's only a fandom,
Speaker 1: and I think I think that the thing that is
Speaker 1: very dangerous about this stough is that again, Area fifty
Speaker 1: one is like the existence of Area fifty one is
Speaker 1: like an atrocity to anyone who thinks you live in
Speaker 1: a democracy. They have almost killed us, like multiple multiple times,
Speaker 1: and everyone is like, oh, it's the Aliens. Was like, nope,
Speaker 1: they they literally almost ended life on Earth like four times,
Speaker 1: and and yeah, you know what we're gonna get into
Speaker 1: they they you know, will get into the other horrible
Speaker 1: stuff they do at a second. But I do want
Speaker 1: to talk about the one cool thing they did, because okay,
Speaker 1: they did one thing that was incredibly awesome. That was
Speaker 1: the greatest thing the American Empires ever produced, which is
Speaker 1: they made the SR seventy one. The SR seventy one
Speaker 1: is fucking sick. This is this is the coolest airplane anyone.
Speaker 1: It's like, just like, go google a picture of it.
Speaker 1: It looks so cool. It could hit it could hit
Speaker 1: Mock three point four. Like it's just fast. It's faster
Speaker 1: than bullets. Uh it is. It doesn't any weapons on it,
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's defense strategy, so missile is to
Speaker 1: outrun the missile. Yeah, it's what's the man It does
Speaker 1: look just like the X Wing and it does look
Speaker 1: just like the X Men's Yeah, well yeah, it's specifically
Speaker 1: there modified. Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's shiitest thing ever.
Speaker 1: And it's like from that was like that was the
Speaker 1: pinnacle of the American empires when they made this, this
Speaker 1: one just absolutely incredible machine, and then they used to
Speaker 1: do war crimes in Vietnam and then they were like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's too expensive. Dick Cheney, who is a demon in
Speaker 1: human form who will one day returned to the Hell
Speaker 1: that spawned him and spend the rest of his days
Speaker 1: between an apport by Satan, has the program killed because
Speaker 1: he wants to make B two bombers, and he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: we've got to be able to drop nukes from weird
Speaker 1: triangle planes. We can't run the coolest plane of all
Speaker 1: time ever anymore. So he kills it, and it's depressing
Speaker 1: and it's it's everything is bad now, and he will
Speaker 1: rotten Hell eternally for of his many crimes. Killing the
Speaker 1: SR seventy one. The only good thing the Americans ever did.
Speaker 1: He should have This is the only thing we should
Speaker 1: have ever spent money on us a kind yeah, but
Speaker 1: if look if the roads just a network of SR
Speaker 1: seventy it was that was almost three d million dollars
Speaker 1: in today's money for one. Yeah. Sure, but like is
Speaker 1: like just like a trillion dollar Look at how much
Speaker 1: worse that plane looks than the SR seventy one. Like
Speaker 1: if I success flying around in FT, they're so wet,
Speaker 1: they're so bad because Professor Xavier has has fucking style unfortunately.
Speaker 1: So there's the other things they're building there are horrifying. Um.
Speaker 1: One of the most important ones that I think people
Speaker 1: have sort of like forgotten the real impact of is
Speaker 1: is that the F one sevent Night Hawk and so
Speaker 1: so uh Eric fifty one is basically where American steuth
Speaker 1: technology is developed, which really does on the conspiracy. But
Speaker 1: like no, this is actually like yeah, this, this is
Speaker 1: this is what they're doing. They're doing, Yeah, they're doing
Speaker 1: seuth technology and the Nighthawk. The night Hawk is really bad.
Speaker 1: And the night Hawk is really bad because it fundamentally
Speaker 1: changes the balance of power between anti A weapons and bombers.
Speaker 1: And this means that the US can just like I
Speaker 1: don't know, for example, just obliterate an army of fleeing
Speaker 1: Iraqi conscripts without having to like worry about someone shooting
Speaker 1: down their planes. To be fair, I do think I
Speaker 1: do think the night Hawk looks way better than the
Speaker 1: previous plane we mentioned. That's for so many one. Now
Speaker 1: that's not a bad looking plane, but the night beautiful plane,
Speaker 1: it's a it is a horrible killing machine. It's all
Speaker 1: designed for and it looks like it. It looks like death.
Speaker 1: Like the plane looks like It's true, it doesn't look
Speaker 1: like well that's why I likely there's only one because
Speaker 1: seventy one just looks like it looks like looks like death, yeah,
Speaker 1: whereas where this one looks like like. This one looks
Speaker 1: like like like like like yeah, like a government put
Speaker 1: into a plane that is death, that is and that
Speaker 1: is what it looks like. And so yeah, this is
Speaker 1: this is this is part of a transition the night
Speaker 1: Hawks actually is there's an interesting tansition that's happening here,
Speaker 1: which is that so a night Hawks. Uh, the Nighthawk
Speaker 1: is tested at at Airy fifty one. But this is
Speaker 1: the first plane that like can actually drop bombs that
Speaker 1: Airy fifty one ever made, because up until up until
Speaker 1: this point they've been doing Becconnissance aircraft and be doing
Speaker 1: the YouTube that seventy one A twelve, which is like
Speaker 1: they're just capable of accidentally ending the world, these deliberately
Speaker 1: ending it by dropping bombs. Yeah, and and this this
Speaker 1: this is when is that the CIA gives control of
Speaker 1: A fifty one to the Air Force one. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: this is all. This is also where airy fifty two
Speaker 1: comes in, because every fifty two wih it's it's it's
Speaker 1: literally just the facility X fifty one. And so they
Speaker 1: air fifty one is like, I sorry. Air fifty two
Speaker 1: is built up basically to like house the night Hawks
Speaker 1: now it is it is interesting that like the older
Speaker 1: night Hawks look a lot more like UFOs than the
Speaker 1: newer night Hawks. Like the newer night Hawks look more
Speaker 1: like the stupid like Tumbler batmobile, but in a plane,
Speaker 1: the older night Hawks look a lot more sci fi
Speaker 1: um And it is interesting with the difference to be
Speaker 1: like if I saw the older night Hawk and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's the UFO. If I saw the new er knight Hawk,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh that is like a military plane. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: and I was, I will say this. So they start
Speaker 1: doing a lot of things to like reduce the number
Speaker 1: of UFO sightings they produce. So, like they said, they
Speaker 1: start flying, they start flying at night because it's actually
Speaker 1: really hard to see a black airplane at night. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But but you know, the the other thing that they're
Speaker 1: doing in air fifty one, and they've been doing this
Speaker 1: really since the sixties is Air fifty one is where
Speaker 1: the US basically develops its drones. Yeah, and that is
Speaker 1: that that is the modern thing that pilots talk of
Speaker 1: it on CBS or whatever, and and you know, and
Speaker 1: it's interestingly so so I I mean I've been sort
Speaker 1: of aware of this, I didn't fully understand it. The
Speaker 1: US like had drones in the sixties, which just put
Speaker 1: them for a lot. Yeah. Yeah, like they like one
Speaker 1: of the things they do with the A twelve is
Speaker 1: they put like they had this like Ramjet drone on
Speaker 1: top of it, which just like pretty like a Ramjet
Speaker 1: joone is sick. Like that's like that's just like a
Speaker 1: cool thing. Yeah. If it wasn't used for killing people,
Speaker 1: then all these things are designed to people. Well yeah,
Speaker 1: but the thought about the ram Jet things, they had
Speaker 1: to stop using it because it kept it kept just
Speaker 1: like like cutting the airplane that kept cutting the A
Speaker 1: twelve and a half. Okay, well to the ram Jet drone.
Speaker 1: But yeah, and I think that the last thing we
Speaker 1: should talk about is that, Yeah, so Area fifty ones.
Speaker 1: The latest thing that we know that they did that
Speaker 1: is horrifying and awful is so up up until nine eleven,
Speaker 1: there had been a line in the U. S. MILT
Speaker 1: and that line was you do not put weapons on
Speaker 1: unarmed drones. After after oh what a time? Yeah, and
Speaker 1: every note eleven, uh, the Air Force in the CIA
Speaker 1: basically get together and they're trying to draw up a
Speaker 1: plan to kill Ben Laden and so their their plan
Speaker 1: to do this is to put health fire missiles on
Speaker 1: a drone. And this is this is this is the
Speaker 1: origin of what a horrible series of event. Drone like
Speaker 1: the few decisions that have impacted the course of humanity
Speaker 1: for the next century that are being responsible for so
Speaker 1: many and and this thing, you can you can see
Speaker 1: where this is going in the initial thing, because so
Speaker 1: when when when when they're testing the missiles on this
Speaker 1: right in Airy fifty one that they set up like
Speaker 1: a mock version of like Ben Lawden's house, and they're
Speaker 1: setting it up so that they can figure out how
Speaker 1: many children they are going to kill when they blow
Speaker 1: this thing up, and yeah, that's that's that's that's that's been,
Speaker 1: that's been air fifty ones modern. No, the worst, the
Speaker 1: worst thing to come from places like this is putting
Speaker 1: guns on robots and drums. This is like the worst thing,
Speaker 1: almost almost almost ending the world with nuclear weapons, and
Speaker 1: then now drones deciding to put deciding to put bombs
Speaker 1: and weapons on little tiny things that fly and little
Speaker 1: and little robots that crawl around. This is the worst
Speaker 1: thing imaginable that we could have We could have just
Speaker 1: not done, but we're like, nope, let's do it. And
Speaker 1: now because the things about it, even even though like
Speaker 1: seventies c. I A Was like, this is a bad idea.
Speaker 1: I know, it's one of one of the first laws
Speaker 1: of like one of the first laws of first of robotics,
Speaker 1: the first lave of robotics. Yeah, but we stopped talking
Speaker 1: about that years ago, and now we have those. Now
Speaker 1: we have those fucking robot dogs with that fucking like
Speaker 1: five five six rifles SI even worse, even worse. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's the episode and yet more, a rifle a
Speaker 1: little go right through a robot yeah, I'm really excited
Speaker 1: for the Robot Wars and then it's gonna suck so bad.
Speaker 1: We're already in the Robot Wars. Yeah, I know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's well, it's happened. Well, but you know what will
Speaker 1: never happen. It would have been so much it would
Speaker 1: have been so much better if it was just Aliens.
Speaker 1: God what no not? Yeah, you know, I would though,
Speaker 1: if we ever do Stomry, we should just destroy it
Speaker 1: like that. That's just that place. That place should be
Speaker 1: raised to the ground and like left as a monument
Speaker 1: to the people that killed, because that should be most
Speaker 1: of the states. Yes, specifically, we fill every inch of
Speaker 1: it with concrete and we top it with a statue
Speaker 1: of Fox Molder. You know. You know what we do
Speaker 1: is we do the thing like for the theoretical, the
Speaker 1: theoretical nuclear waste disposal site. Yeah, that is what we do.
Speaker 1: It is also still sort of a radiant and also
Speaker 1: it is still also radiant. So yeah, nothing, nothing, nothing,
Speaker 1: nothing of value is kept here. Turn to turn away. Yep, yeah,
Speaker 1: well I wish it was aliens. Aliens. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: see that's the episode. You can follow our cia exploits
Speaker 1: that that happened here upon on Twitter and Instagram. Gotta
Speaker 1: hate social media. All right, that's the episode. Here's to
Speaker 1: the great American settlers. The millions of you have settled
Speaker 1: for unsatisfying jobs because they pay the bills, and you
Speaker 1: just kind of fell into it, and you know, it's
Speaker 1: like totally fine, just another few decades or so and
Speaker 1: then you can enjoy yourself. Of course, there is something
Speaker 1: else you could do. If you've got something to say.
Speaker 1: You could, I don't know, start up podcast with spreaker
Speaker 1: from my heart and unleash your creative freedom and spend
Speaker 1: all day researching and talking about stuff you love and
Speaker 1: maybe even earn enough money to one day tell your
Speaker 1: irritating boss as you quit and walk off into the sunset. Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm no settler, I'm an explorer spreaker dot com. That's
Speaker 1: spr e a k e er hustle on over Today.
Speaker 1: I'm Jake Halbern, host of deep Cover. Our new season
Speaker 1: is about a lawyer who helped the mob run Chicago.
Speaker 1: We controlled the courts, we controlled absolutely everything. He broughbed
Speaker 1: judges and even helped a hit man walk free, until
Speaker 1: one day when he started talking with the FBI and
Speaker 1: promised that he could take the mob down. I've spent
Speaker 1: the past year trying to figure out why he flipped
Speaker 1: and what he was really after. From my perspective, Bob
Speaker 1: was too good to be true. There's got to be
Speaker 1: something wrong with this. I wouldn't trust that guy. He
Speaker 1: looks like a little scum, big liar stool Pidgeon, you
Speaker 1: looked like what he was or at I can say
Speaker 1: with all certainty I think he's a hero because he
Speaker 1: didn't have to do what he did, and he did
Speaker 1: it anyway. The moment I put the wire around the
Speaker 1: first time, my life was over. If it ever got out,
Speaker 1: they would kill me. In the heartbeat, listen to deep
Speaker 1: Cover on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. When P. T. Barnum's Great
Speaker 1: American Museum burned to the ground in eighteen sixty five,
Speaker 1: what rose from its ashes would change the world. Welcome
Speaker 1: to Grim and Mild presents an ongoing journey into the strange,
Speaker 1: the unusual, and the fascinating. For our inaugural season, we'll
Speaker 1: be giving you a backstage tour of the always complex
Speaker 1: and often misunderstood cultural artifact that is the American Side Show.
Speaker 1: So come along as we visit the shadowy corners of
Speaker 1: the stage and learn about the people who were at
Speaker 1: the center of it all in a place where spectacle
Speaker 1: was king. We will soon discover there's always more to
Speaker 1: the story than meets the eye. So step right up
Speaker 1: and get in line. Listen to Grim and Mile Presents
Speaker 1: now on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts. Learn more over at Grim
Speaker 1: and Mild dot com. Slash presents a spooky All right,
Speaker 1: We're done. Um, Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show
Speaker 1: that this is on the week that this is, which
Speaker 1: is the spooky week of the year where things are spooky. Today,
Speaker 1: my guest Katie Golden Katie sit say hello to the audience. Hello, audience,
Speaker 1: now say goodbye. Okay by audience, now tell the audience
Speaker 1: that acts of industrial sabotage are always morally justified in
Speaker 1: defense of the climate. Uh acts of Wait, okay, so
Speaker 1: are you do you guys have a team of lawyers
Speaker 1: that I can access or absolutely they say it's fine.
Speaker 1: They say it's fine. If you tell people that, then
Speaker 1: you know, industrial sabbatui or whatever he said, it is cool.
Speaker 1: I love it, all right, everybody. I wouldn't have made
Speaker 1: that kind of claim, but but you heard Katie, so
Speaker 1: you know, there you go. Full We've now made a
Speaker 1: full throated defense of the Niger Delta Avengers. That is true.
Speaker 1: That is an upcoming episode of Chris Um Katie, What
Speaker 1: do you? What do you do? What do we? What
Speaker 1: do we? What do we? What? What are we? What
Speaker 1: are we? What are We're? All star dust Robert? Okay,
Speaker 1: well that sounds soothing. Actually well well first, Katie of
Speaker 1: of of the Goldens is the host of Creature. You
Speaker 1: right for some more news. You're the host of Creature
Speaker 1: feature Jesus Sophie, you gotta remember these things. Yeah, um m,
Speaker 1: everything's always beautiful. What are we? What are we doing today?
Speaker 1: What do you got? What? What are what's happening? I mean,
Speaker 1: this is your podcast. But I thought, all right, fine,
Speaker 1: it's my podcast. Now, welcome to it could happen? We
Speaker 1: are hosted by Katie Golden. I thought we could talk.
Speaker 1: I thought we could talk about animals because I like animals.
Speaker 1: All right, you got a spooky thing about an animal
Speaker 1: for us? Yeah, I thought because the theme of your
Speaker 1: podcast seems to be, you know, sort of the future
Speaker 1: and how things could get pretty fucky in the future,
Speaker 1: and I thought there are some examples of things getting
Speaker 1: fucky with animals in the current present. That seems to
Speaker 1: it could maybe be a bit of a crystal ball
Speaker 1: for things that could happen in the future with climate change.
Speaker 1: That is kind of spooky. All right, let's do it.
Speaker 1: Have you guys heard of this? I get antelope. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've heard of antelopes, and I've heard of the saiga,
Speaker 1: and I guess I'm not surprised that there's antelopes in
Speaker 1: the Saga. Do me a quick favor and just google
Speaker 1: siga antelope and just take a gander. Take them on
Speaker 1: in as I I'll describe them to the aud Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they are kind of some of the cutest, dufiest little
Speaker 1: in the world. Little little they have the best little face.
Speaker 1: I know, it's weird. It looks it's like just too
Speaker 1: it's just a big nose. Yeah, it's just a big,
Speaker 1: ridiculous nose. My god, that looks silly. They must be
Speaker 1: endangered because they look they look like they're terrible at
Speaker 1: staying alive. Their their faces all nose. It's like someone's
Speaker 1: whole face was just a nose like someone stuck an
Speaker 1: ant eater to like an They look delicious. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna say it. I would hunt and eat them. They
Speaker 1: like incredibly with Voldemort's nostrils in the Harry Potter movie.
Speaker 1: But like long, Yeah, they look ridiculous. Yes, they like
Speaker 1: a Star Wars animal. Yeah, some of them. They're patterning
Speaker 1: makes it look like they have tear drop tattoos under
Speaker 1: their eyes, which I think means they've all killed someone
Speaker 1: in prison the hard correctly. Yeah, anyways, are you going
Speaker 1: to tell something that is happening with them, Katie? Yes?
Speaker 1: Are they raist? Are these racist antelope? Katie? We're gonna
Speaker 1: milkshake duck these antelopes. Yeah, they're They're all um as
Speaker 1: far as I know, they're not too racist. They have
Speaker 1: some problematic views on like, you know, gender abortion. Yeah
Speaker 1: that's I mean, all antelope have really regressive attitudes towards
Speaker 1: women's reproductive healthy I mean frustrating. Yeah, yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: but these guys look like Star Wars animals to me,
Speaker 1: they kind of look like a Star Wars anal named
Speaker 1: like a grass honker or something. Yeah, they look extremely fake.
Speaker 1: It's a like a guy you'd meet at the bar
Speaker 1: where the Aliens played jizy. Yes, that type of music
Speaker 1: that Katie's doing is canonically and and if you and
Speaker 1: if you are, if you are, if you are a
Speaker 1: musician who plays jiz, you are a jiz whaler. And
Speaker 1: the best thing about that is that I know all
Speaker 1: of the thought that George Lucas put to that was, Oh,
Speaker 1: someone asked what the type of music they played in jazz?
Speaker 1: Jazz is a real kind of music. Let me just
Speaker 1: put an eye in the vowel. Now, well, that's gonna
Speaker 1: be the day for me put an apostrophe in which
Speaker 1: it could have it could have, it could have been
Speaker 1: so even the effort wasn't there because these are okay, sorry, no,
Speaker 1: I can talk about this for hours. I just the
Speaker 1: differences between J. K. Rowling and and George Lucas as
Speaker 1: creators who both made very popular fiction franchise is and
Speaker 1: want people to think they thought about them more than
Speaker 1: they did. Is absolutely hysterical because J. K. Rowling does
Speaker 1: that by creating all these convoluted backstories, and George Lucas
Speaker 1: replaced the A and jazz with an eye and didn't
Speaker 1: realize that, right, what an incredible person. It is pretty good. Sorry, Katie, No,
Speaker 1: it's fine, it's fine. So these saga antelope a k a.
Speaker 1: Jizz whalers are found in the grasslands and semi deserts
Speaker 1: in Central Asia, Russia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Uzbekistan, and Turkmenistan. They
Speaker 1: actually used to have a much wider range, but because
Speaker 1: of all the Roberts out there wanting to taste their
Speaker 1: delicious delicious, uh just that nose on a plate, their
Speaker 1: population declined and is now limited to a small territory.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so there's still enough for meat to eat
Speaker 1: a couple. No, Robert, if you try to kill one,
Speaker 1: I'll kill you first. Antelope hunting, we have to. We
Speaker 1: have to protect the look they look stupid as shit.
Speaker 1: It can't possibly be good at stuff. Actually what that knows?
Speaker 1: I bet their senses are. They could do a lot
Speaker 1: of interesting things. Yeah, anybody, let Katie tell the story.
Speaker 1: You interrupting, Fox go sorry, we all got jiz pill
Speaker 1: now not so it's okay, it's I understand the excitement
Speaker 1: about these guys. Um. I do want to paint a
Speaker 1: mental picture for the audience, just so they get like
Speaker 1: why people are freaking out. So they have this elephant,
Speaker 1: Like imagine a little antelope and they're they're small. They're
Speaker 1: about two three ft tall, about six pounds. Yeah, they're
Speaker 1: little babies. And it looks like you took like a
Speaker 1: cute little deer and just glued like a big elephant
Speaker 1: nose to it. It's not as long as an elephant trunk,
Speaker 1: but it's sort of a like a it curls under
Speaker 1: like an elephant seal nose stuck to a little deer
Speaker 1: and that's out. Is called a proboscis, And yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a they're kind of a they have sort of a
Speaker 1: light tan white coat. Uh, they can get really fluffy
Speaker 1: in the winter. Uh. They have these really huge tubular
Speaker 1: nostrils on that nose and that gigantic conquer helps them
Speaker 1: filter dirt as the huge herds sort of trample on
Speaker 1: the ground and kick up dirt clouds um And it
Speaker 1: can also act as an ac unit that cools the
Speaker 1: syga antelopes blood. So as blood flows through it, you
Speaker 1: have this spacious chamber and it cools the blood and
Speaker 1: it recirculates. And then in the winter it can act
Speaker 1: as a space heater that warms the air before they
Speaker 1: breathe it in so ac heater. Yeah, filter system. It's
Speaker 1: really a cool nose, which is why it was absolutely
Speaker 1: horrifying when entire herds of the Saga antelope started dropping
Speaker 1: dead on mass within like days of each other, just
Speaker 1: like a biblical plague. So there are photos. What's properly unbelievable.
Speaker 1: You're so embarrassing sometimes, Katie, I'm so sorry. No, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's fine. Um, I'm I mean, I don't know
Speaker 1: how else to sort of add levity to just the
Speaker 1: most adorable little antelope in the world just all suddenly dying. Uh. There.
Speaker 1: So there are photos in Kazakhstans of in Kazakhstan of
Speaker 1: these fields just littered with these white lumps, and when
Speaker 1: you zoom in you realize they're all Saga antelope corpses
Speaker 1: just covering the ground. It's pretty bone chilling. It kind
Speaker 1: of looks okay, this is a little bit, uh. It
Speaker 1: kind of looks like a cult death, a mass cult death,
Speaker 1: like jonestown antelope. Oh boy, I was going to say,
Speaker 1: when you go grenade fishing, but yeah, the same kind
Speaker 1: of idea grenade fishing. Yeah, what did you drop a
Speaker 1: grenade in a lake and then it kills all the
Speaker 1: fish and they float to the top, so you can. Okay,
Speaker 1: I thought it was like you were fishing for fishing,
Speaker 1: like running around a field going like it's that if
Speaker 1: you go fishing in a lake where people go grenade fishing,
Speaker 1: you may in fact catch a grenade. But but two
Speaker 1: grenades with one stone, well kind of I'm having this
Speaker 1: image of bobbing for apples. But like above, the apple
Speaker 1: pareful with lakes in Iraq? Is it because they've got
Speaker 1: grenades in them? Yeah? Really that's how you fish? Yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: if I'm still obsession looking at these pictures, Okay, so
Speaker 1: what what caused all this? This this nightmare plague that
Speaker 1: killed all of the all of the weird nos the
Speaker 1: gonzo antelope, right, the gonzo antelope. It was kind of
Speaker 1: a mystery. So in two hundred thousand siga died off
Speaker 1: in that year alone, and like literally not that many.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was like the it wiped out the
Speaker 1: majority of the global population because they were already endangered.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, they just like keeled over died without explanation,
Speaker 1: and so researchers were obviously horrified and confused and slightly
Speaker 1: curious and started that's more than left. Yeah. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: they're like a hundred thousand left. Um. And so they
Speaker 1: started investigating the mass deaths and they found that the
Speaker 1: cause was a bacterial infection of pastor Ella multosita type
Speaker 1: B bacteria, which is a really catchy name um, and
Speaker 1: it caused hemorrhagic sceptics simia um, which is a horrible
Speaker 1: I looked up the symptoms. It's like internal bleeding and
Speaker 1: just it's like the worst cold ever, but also with
Speaker 1: your organs bleeding inside, which doesn't sound great. It sounds
Speaker 1: and honestly looks like Captain trips, like the plague from
Speaker 1: Stephen King's The Stand that killed all of the people.
Speaker 1: Like just this horrible plague that makes everybody bleed out
Speaker 1: and drop where they're standing. Yeah, that's essentially what it happened.
Speaker 1: What happens also with a lot of snots, like a
Speaker 1: lot of ye that's also very captain trips. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean maybe that yeah yeah, so meat fun. So yeah,
Speaker 1: what is thought to have happened is that basically this bacteria,
Speaker 1: pastor Ella has often been found in siga antelope large noses.
Speaker 1: They're also found in other like a yell at noses
Speaker 1: that have big, these big sort of proboscus noses and
Speaker 1: it lives in there. But it's normally not a problem
Speaker 1: because the immune system is able to fight it off
Speaker 1: fine and maintains this balance. But the climate, I don't
Speaker 1: know if you guys have heard, but climate is kind
Speaker 1: of getting weird. That is something I've I've heard of, yeah,
Speaker 1: learning about it. It may be it may be changing
Speaker 1: from what it used to be a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's called change of climate kind of on a global scale,
Speaker 1: everything getting slightly warmer. Yeah, usually it's climate hottening. Climate hottening.
Speaker 1: Because of climate hottening, this bacteria it had much more ideal, uh,
Speaker 1: kind of of an environment to grow. So inside the
Speaker 1: beautiful proboscis of the antelope, you can imagine, it's moist,
Speaker 1: it's warm, it's great, it's moister, yeah, with fester inside
Speaker 1: the nose right exactly. And so when it gets more
Speaker 1: humid on the outside, more hot and humid, that nose
Speaker 1: increases in temperature as well, and it became the perfect
Speaker 1: incubator for hosting this bacteria such that it overwhelmed the
Speaker 1: antelopes immune system and literally they just started dropping like
Speaker 1: flies from this infection, like an entire herd dying within
Speaker 1: a couple of days. When when we first mentioned this,
Speaker 1: you're talking about how they can use their nose as
Speaker 1: like an air conditioner. I was thinking like, oh, maybe
Speaker 1: maybe these animals will be like well adapted to climate
Speaker 1: change so they can stuff regulate. But no, of course not.
Speaker 1: Of course it's not a good story. Um yea. Now
Speaker 1: I think that's what's so creepy about climate change to
Speaker 1: me is there's like the obvious effects are things like
Speaker 1: more fire, we get real hot and we die because
Speaker 1: it's too hot. But things like oh, this means bacteria
Speaker 1: loves loves living life and like starts eating us from
Speaker 1: the inside out. Like that's not a really I guess
Speaker 1: in two of consequence of global warming, but it is
Speaker 1: one of the things that seems to be likely to happen.
Speaker 1: So it's really creepy. Well it's fun is when you
Speaker 1: started this and talked about like a whole herd of
Speaker 1: of of these antelopes dropping at once, I thought it
Speaker 1: was going to be like, oh, another one of those
Speaker 1: like horrible sulfur bubbles that killed like a city's worth
Speaker 1: of animals in a matter of seconds. Because a bunch
Speaker 1: of ice melted um and I'm not sure which is creepier. Actually,
Speaker 1: this is worse, Like they died in like horrible pain. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think the sulfur wasn't painful. But yeah, they're
Speaker 1: both horrifying, the sulfurs at least faster. They're both very frightening.
Speaker 1: And it's also both things that like, oh yeah that
Speaker 1: could that could they that could drop some people that
Speaker 1: could just jump right across. There's there's a couple of
Speaker 1: ways this could go bad for us. This is the thing.
Speaker 1: And Robert was looking a little bit into to put
Speaker 1: together the first five scripted episodes of The Daily Is
Speaker 1: we In a few books we read, there were there
Speaker 1: were there were section, like large sections about this is
Speaker 1: gonna basically just make plagues be a thing forever. Now, Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be hard for people to really get
Speaker 1: their heads around. But imagine a plague hit in in
Speaker 1: in the twenty one century. How scary that would be,
Speaker 1: just really trying to get your head around that global plague. Yeah,
Speaker 1: people drop into frightening, you know. So the coronavirus coronavirus
Speaker 1: is technically it's not a plague, right because it's not
Speaker 1: it's not bacteria. It's yeah, it's like it's it's it's
Speaker 1: both both both Like vitral pathogens, bacterial pathogens are with
Speaker 1: with globalization, can spread it much faster, right, and now
Speaker 1: with global warming there's gonna be more breeding ground for
Speaker 1: literally new bacterias. And this is and with with stuff
Speaker 1: melting in the ice caps and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: There's just a lot of reasons to just assume that, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're just gonna kind of live with plugues constantly being
Speaker 1: a problem now, Like it's that's just the were there there.
Speaker 1: There never is going to be a post COVID nineteen world.
Speaker 1: It's just this forever. COVID was just the first plague
Speaker 1: that really got through the defenses that we're never going
Speaker 1: to hold up to the damage we're doing to the climate.
Speaker 1: Like there were a couple of plagues beforehand that like
Speaker 1: we we were able to kind of cat tamp down
Speaker 1: on get a lit on, and COVID was just the
Speaker 1: system actually finally shattering and it's never gonna get fixed
Speaker 1: and the plagues are just gonna get plague gear and uh,
Speaker 1: it'll be fun. But on the other side, on the upside,
Speaker 1: here's some mats. Okay, Yeah, on the upside, capitalism, we
Speaker 1: are back. I've I've unfortunately, I've got to the point
Speaker 1: where I'm scrolling through these pictures where I've now found
Speaker 1: the mountain of dead animals. Yeah, it's real, fucking the
Speaker 1: stand ship. Yeah, it's a lot of them, a lot
Speaker 1: of them dead, just in a giant pile. Like imagine
Speaker 1: the cutest Sesame Street character, cuter than snuffle Off, I guess,
Speaker 1: just lying in heaps, and that big nose has to
Speaker 1: make him extra vulnerable to fucking how horrible nose bacteria.
Speaker 1: That's what we were just talking about. It's literally that's
Speaker 1: just what we said. Katie just explained that. I know.
Speaker 1: But it's so sad. It is very sad. It's very sad,
Speaker 1: and there's this is not an isolated case that will
Speaker 1: never happen again. Researchers warn that it's very likely stuff
Speaker 1: like this will keep happening with climate change, and they're
Speaker 1: warning that reindeer populations are at risk because reindeer actually
Speaker 1: also have a really even though it doesn't seem like
Speaker 1: they have a huge boss, because they have a very
Speaker 1: impressive nose. It's very spacious. It also actually works like
Speaker 1: a little space heater and warms up the air as
Speaker 1: they breathe it in. It's pretty amazing. But those same
Speaker 1: characteristics that are so beneficial to the reindeer now could
Speaker 1: actually become very dangerous for them with climate change if
Speaker 1: this bacterial growth happened. So we're looking at potential, um,
Speaker 1: you know, risk to reindeer population, and there's also a
Speaker 1: lot of risk to farm animals as well, like for
Speaker 1: something similar have to happen, where this bacteria can infect
Speaker 1: farm animals like cows and other types of ungulate farm animals. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so you know, even if people don't care about
Speaker 1: the adorable psyched antelope, which I guess would be just psychopaths, murders,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, But like you know, we also have
Speaker 1: very important species like you know, reindeer that are keystone
Speaker 1: species and also you know our farm animals that you know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're very for a lot of people to basically how
Speaker 1: they live their lives are based around cultivating these animals
Speaker 1: and hunting and raising it. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, every species, even if no matter how
Speaker 1: obscured it is, it is typically something very important for humans.
Speaker 1: It's just it's sort of the like seven degrees of
Speaker 1: Kevin Bacon. It's like you don't have to get too
Speaker 1: far away to realize that Kevin Bacon, like his survival
Speaker 1: is really important to the planet um. Except instead of
Speaker 1: Kevin Bacon, it's like any animal. And that is basically
Speaker 1: all animals and all ecosystems, no matter even if you
Speaker 1: feel like they're not super important the way our world
Speaker 1: works and how it doesn't work, they're all incredibly intrinsic
Speaker 1: and reliant on each other. So even you know that's
Speaker 1: that we're seeing stuff about, like why don't we just
Speaker 1: like turn entire deserts into solar fields and be like, well, no,
Speaker 1: because the desert equisystem actually, like if they serves a
Speaker 1: very important purpose, Like you can't just be like, oh,
Speaker 1: deserts are important, Like no, like they have an actual
Speaker 1: egoistm that's actually very important to the surrounding areas. We
Speaker 1: can't just bulldoze it and turn into a solar just
Speaker 1: sand garrison, which is coarse and irritating and it gets everywhere.
Speaker 1: It's everywhere. It's an actual quote from from episodes episode two,
Speaker 1: Attack of the Clones by hearing Christensen playing Anakin Skywalker
Speaker 1: the Padawan with with the rat tail. Yeah, yeah, classic
Speaker 1: that Yeah, his rat tail amazing. The courage they used
Speaker 1: to the courage of two three stunning. Yeah, How could
Speaker 1: pad May not How could she not want that? How
Speaker 1: could you resist? It's like that Ween song Every girl
Speaker 1: wants a guy with a rat tail. Yeah, I'm just
Speaker 1: assuming if that were a song, it would be by
Speaker 1: Ween called it's called a like a love Lover. I
Speaker 1: think that's right, that's right. So what's up with these animals? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you want some more animals because I talked about how
Speaker 1: those animals mostly all died. Oh I'm I'm just thinking,
Speaker 1: like what's like, what's what like? Do you know, like,
Speaker 1: what's happened with them since they all dropped? A whole
Speaker 1: four thousand of them left alive? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, they're
Speaker 1: not currently all dying of this bacterial infection. I think,
Speaker 1: like some of them are. They apparently outside of the
Speaker 1: danger zone. I guess outside of the area where there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's about the best you can say for any species.
Speaker 1: Some of them aren't in the danger area occurringly, but
Speaker 1: obviously that's going to change as global warming progresses. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a it's pretty grim. It's Also, I think, you know, obviously,
Speaker 1: when you think about these things, humans obviously don't have
Speaker 1: like these big snuffle off a guess noses, which is
Speaker 1: really sad because I'm imagining us with it, and we're
Speaker 1: we'd all be dead, would all be dead? But really,
Speaker 1: which would be better for the planet? So but we
Speaker 1: but we we would we would be way better at
Speaker 1: whaling jizz. And honestly, I feel like we would be
Speaker 1: whaling the hell out of some jizz man. One can dream.
Speaker 1: We would be nose deep in a big old pilages.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, how would How does the Bible quantify jizz?
Speaker 1: Um cubits? Okay, that's what Noah said, but he wanted
Speaker 1: to get the j on the ark. God's like, you
Speaker 1: must two jis of every kind. Well, Noah was big
Speaker 1: into Now we're just like drawing that it was ever
Speaker 1: about music? All right? Sorry, Katie, No, that's all right,
Speaker 1: I asked, so, h yeah, I mean I thought another
Speaker 1: thing we could talk about is how animal folklore is
Speaker 1: really important to pay attention to and to kind of
Speaker 1: listen to as both information and warnings for the future. Um,
Speaker 1: because we often dismissed folklore as like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: these are just spooky stories that we tell around the campfire.
Speaker 1: They're just legends. They don't mean anything. We're especially dismissive,
Speaker 1: I think when it comes to indigenous peoples. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: your folklore, Oh that's so cute and quaint. But yeah,
Speaker 1: we listen to it. We we look at it as
Speaker 1: we we like really like infantilize it as like, oh,
Speaker 1: look at you primitive people still doing folklore, which is
Speaker 1: extremely extremely disrespectful and also like very naive about how
Speaker 1: things work when you look at how heavily engineered all
Speaker 1: of like the forests were in the entirety of the
Speaker 1: America's like from the Amazon of the up to the
Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest. It's a little like like the architect of
Speaker 1: a building comes in and says, hey, you can't knock
Speaker 1: out that retaining while the building is gonna collapse, and
Speaker 1: we're gonna be like, oh, Mr architect with his magic walls,
Speaker 1: and then the building. You know, there's there's a bunch
Speaker 1: of paintings. You're like, there's like these drawings from like
Speaker 1: this is like the early sixteen hundreds of people like
Speaker 1: in North America, and and it will be the drawing
Speaker 1: and it's all these European guys standing on a tree
Speaker 1: and what they're watching is like it's it's one of
Speaker 1: one of the I forget exactly what tried. This is
Speaker 1: one of one of the people. Like they figured out
Speaker 1: how to have like a fire that's like it burns
Speaker 1: it like exactly, like like perfectly in this ring around
Speaker 1: the tree does not catch anything else inside of it.
Speaker 1: Like and it's funny because it's like you look at
Speaker 1: this and it's like, okay, like the people, like the
Speaker 1: people who are drawing this painting cannot do this. And
Speaker 1: it's like it's very clear that they're just like incredibly
Speaker 1: befuddled by this. But it's like you know, and just
Speaker 1: it's it's just sitting there and then all the people
Speaker 1: who paint, who paint that, you like, all the European
Speaker 1: artists who like do this each like no, no, not,
Speaker 1: it's fine. We don't know how they're doing this fire
Speaker 1: control stuff. But we're Europeans. Everything we every ignoring everything
Speaker 1: other people say is gonna go fine and great, and
Speaker 1: we're not gonna like turn half the country into a
Speaker 1: dust bowl. What do they got to hs? We figured
Speaker 1: out how to make boats that only kill half the
Speaker 1: people on them, only half barely. I mean that, I
Speaker 1: mean that is a really good point. Uh. Controlled burns
Speaker 1: have been practiced by a number of civilizations for millennia.
Speaker 1: But when European settlers came and colonized North America, were
Speaker 1: like controlled burns. But we want to sell the timber
Speaker 1: and that sounds dangerous, so let us handle it. But
Speaker 1: this is all immortalized in the biographical song Timber Bye
Speaker 1: Bye pit Bull, which which which tells this story in
Speaker 1: in lyrical version please continue, and in uh and in
Speaker 1: uh Timberland boots, and in Timberland boots. That's right, every
Speaker 1: Timberland boot has a piece of the story. Yeah, and timberwolves.
Speaker 1: The I'm gonna say, a hockey team. Yes, the hockey
Speaker 1: team is yeah, okay, yeah, Sophie is shaking your head.
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry, Sophie, Minnesota Wolves. I'm sorry everyone, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean so in North America, especially in California. Uh,
Speaker 1: Indigenous American tribes practice controlled burns for thousands and thousands
Speaker 1: of years. Uh. The europe Carrack and Hoopa tribes of
Speaker 1: California did controlled burns, which, in addition to preventing larger,
Speaker 1: more dangerous wildfires by getting grid of dead brush. It
Speaker 1: also promoted new growth of vegetation like really important plant
Speaker 1: species like oak and hazel. It even had unexpected effects
Speaker 1: like supporting the salmon population because as you did these
Speaker 1: controlled burns created a block from the sun so that
Speaker 1: the ash clouds and then that would cool down the
Speaker 1: temperatures of the streams. And I know what you're thinking, that, hey,
Speaker 1: to counter global warming, we should burn everything so that
Speaker 1: I cooled down. Um, the problem with burning everything like
Speaker 1: these uncontrolled burns is they also kill living vegetation. And
Speaker 1: it's just like it burns everything in sight and leaves
Speaker 1: basically nothing, and it burns off a huge amount of
Speaker 1: carbon stores. So the great thing about controlled burns is
Speaker 1: it very slowly burns off these carbon stores in this
Speaker 1: dead wood, and then it gives it time to re
Speaker 1: grow so that you recapture the carbon rather than just
Speaker 1: like burning all this carbon at once, releasing it all
Speaker 1: at once, and then it's like trying to play catchup.
Speaker 1: It's like if you still like a little bit of
Speaker 1: milk on the table and you use a paper towel
Speaker 1: and wipe it up, it works. But if you just
Speaker 1: like pour out the entire milk jug on the table. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, on like a sloppy Saturday, just pouring out
Speaker 1: that milk. It's like a paper towel is not gonna
Speaker 1: do anything. That's like trees carbon you know what I'm saying. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: I do, I do, I do. I do pick up
Speaker 1: what you are putting down. They say, although I still
Speaker 1: think melk analogy, we should try a controlled burn on.
Speaker 1: Let's say Boston, see how it goes, right, I didn't
Speaker 1: care for it. I didn't care for Boston. Don't see
Speaker 1: how we need it? Even North End, Yeah, I didn't
Speaker 1: care for it. M hm. They've got good Canolis there, though,
Speaker 1: I'm sure they do. You know where else has good Canolis?
Speaker 1: I don't because I don't care for Canoli's either. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: all right, that's uh. I'm actually living in Italy, and
Speaker 1: so if they find out I've been on this podcast,
Speaker 1: I'm going to get kicked out of the Oh you
Speaker 1: need to be yeah, very careful. It's filled with Italians.
Speaker 1: They're everywhere. If you can get up to the Alps,
Speaker 1: there might be some Swiss nearby who can protect. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's you're in dangerous territory. I didn't realize their
Speaker 1: Italians here, that's scary. Yeah, it's one of the main
Speaker 1: problems that Italy has. Yeah so uh yeah so. But
Speaker 1: when basically um indigenous tribes had a pretty good system
Speaker 1: of controlled burns in California, and then when you know,
Speaker 1: colonizers came to North America, we were like, hey, stop that.
Speaker 1: In fact, we're gonna make it illegal to do controlled
Speaker 1: burns because that seems dangerous. And they focused on fire
Speaker 1: suppression and protection of timber stores rather than you know,
Speaker 1: paying attention to the way people had been doing this
Speaker 1: for thousands and thousands of years and how it kind
Speaker 1: of worked. And so they just thought like, hey, if
Speaker 1: we just stopped fires from ever happening, they'll never happen.
Speaker 1: But spoilers they just started happening still happen and it's
Speaker 1: worse and they're out of control and they're big problems
Speaker 1: every year. And yeah, learned nothing, yep um. But another
Speaker 1: thing is that we could have learned about controlled burns
Speaker 1: much much earlier if we had decided to listen to
Speaker 1: the Aboriginal people's in northern Australia UM about fire hawks.
Speaker 1: So fire hawks are raptors. That is like birds of
Speaker 1: prey who seemed to either accidentally or intentionally spread wildfire
Speaker 1: by picking up smoldering twigs and sticks from a burning
Speaker 1: area and dropping them elsewhere. And then once they start
Speaker 1: that fire, they watch for all the little scared mice
Speaker 1: and rodents and lizards and just feast upon the fleeing animals.
Speaker 1: It's extremely metal. It does sound like that does sound
Speaker 1: very fun, yeah, uh, And so research published in eighteen
Speaker 1: uh detailed about how three species of birds of prey
Speaker 1: in Australia seemed to do this. But of course this
Speaker 1: is not news because aber original people's have known about
Speaker 1: this for thousands and thousands of years and have documented
Speaker 1: this in their own folklore. There's uh even a ceremony
Speaker 1: called yabada in which people act out birds carrying smoldering branches,
Speaker 1: which sounds amazing, but essentially they are teaching this uh
Speaker 1: sort of naturalist history of sorry of how they have
Speaker 1: seen these uh, these hawks, these fire hawks, carrying these
Speaker 1: burning sticks and distributing it. And if this, if we
Speaker 1: had listened to this, you know, earlier, we may have
Speaker 1: had more research on how you know, maybe these birds
Speaker 1: of prey have been terraforming the Australian out back for
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of years, and that's really cool and
Speaker 1: it may be really informative, but unfortunately we kind of
Speaker 1: really only decided to start researching in and those researchers
Speaker 1: started doing it because they listened to, uh, these stories
Speaker 1: from the Aboriginal people. So yeah, yeah, I feel like
Speaker 1: everyone should. I feel like everyone should be more okay
Speaker 1: with understanding why folklore exists and what purpose it serves.
Speaker 1: This is this, this is something I got into years
Speaker 1: ago because of the because of the Lower podcast, learning
Speaker 1: about just how folklore influences culture and politics and a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of really interesting and weird ways, And that
Speaker 1: is something I wanted to talk about more because it's
Speaker 1: it's a thing, and folklore is different for us now
Speaker 1: in terms of how we have like a cultural stories,
Speaker 1: but it's it's it's still the same, it's still the
Speaker 1: same purpose and we just couldn't deny it in a
Speaker 1: way that is kind of silly. Yep. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: there's often this idea of there is a clear distinction
Speaker 1: between fact and folklore, and well, it's true, like we
Speaker 1: can't necessarily just take folklore for at its exact word
Speaker 1: because like it's sort of like a telephone game throughout
Speaker 1: years and years. Folklore is going to take on new
Speaker 1: shapes every generation. But we really should take it seriously
Speaker 1: as a part of very important data set of like
Speaker 1: this is human observational history. Maybe some of it has
Speaker 1: been sort of uh turned into myth, but a lot
Speaker 1: of it could be genuine observation that people are relaying
Speaker 1: over many, many generations, which I think is really important. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you Katie Golden for talking about those those very
Speaker 1: silly Gonzo things that are unfortunately dropping dead at the
Speaker 1: little Gonzo climate change genocide. And then and then the
Speaker 1: other climate change issues are on folklore. Um where where
Speaker 1: can people find you on the old internet in interwebs? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got a podcast. I don't know if you've heard
Speaker 1: about those. Uh, it's called Creature Feature. And I talk
Speaker 1: about stuff like this all the time about animals. It's
Speaker 1: not always about animals dying in horrible ways, but sometimes
Speaker 1: it is. It's a good mix, you know, it's like
Speaker 1: sometimes animals being alive, sometimes animals being dead. Sometimes some
Speaker 1: animals making other animals dead and interesting way animals, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can never predict them. Uh, And you know, uh,
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at Katie Golden. That's
Speaker 1: ka E T I E G O L D I
Speaker 1: N uh yeah where I just you know, just posted
Speaker 1: on the Twitter doing that to creature feature. Find Katie
Speaker 1: on Twitter and uh shoplift Sure what's up guys on
Speaker 1: my shop allowed and I am Troy Millions and we
Speaker 1: are the host of the Earnier Leisure podcast where we
Speaker 1: break down business models and examine the latest trends and finance.
Speaker 1: We hold court and have exclusive interviews with some of
Speaker 1: the biggest names of business, sport, and entertainment, from DJ
Speaker 1: Khaled to Mark Cuban, Rick Ross and Shaquille O'Neil. I
Speaker 1: mean our alumni lists expansive. Listen to as our guests
Speaker 1: reveal their business models, hardships and triumphs and their respective fields.
Speaker 1: The knowledge is in death and the questions are always
Speaker 1: delivered from your standpoint. We want to know what you
Speaker 1: want to know. We talked to the legends of business,
Speaker 1: sports and entertainment about how they got their start and
Speaker 1: most importantly, how they make their money. Earn your Leisia
Speaker 1: is a college business class mixed with pop culture. Want
Speaker 1: to learn about the real estate game? Unclears how the
Speaker 1: stock market works. We got you interested in starting a
Speaker 1: truck and company or vending machine business. Not really sure
Speaker 1: about how taxes or credit work. We got it all covered.
Speaker 1: The Earnier Leisure podcast is available now. Listen to Earnier
Speaker 1: Leisure on the Black Effect Podcast Network, I Heart Radio, app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What grows
Speaker 1: in the forest trees? Sure you know what else grows
Speaker 1: in the forest. Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and
Speaker 1: our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect from
Speaker 1: this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other.
Speaker 1: The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest
Speaker 1: near you and start exploring. I discover the Forest dot Org,
Speaker 1: brought to you by the United States Forest Service and
Speaker 1: the AD Council. It's spook all right, I didn't so
Speaker 1: if I'm done for the day, taking the rest off,
Speaker 1: we sure do. Uh. So, you know, normal, This is
Speaker 1: a show about collapse, all that good stuff, YadA, YadA, YadA,
Speaker 1: But fucking it's Halloween week. So we're we're we're, we're
Speaker 1: we're making sure all of our stuff has a little
Speaker 1: bit of an extra spooky twist. It's like when you
Speaker 1: you make a Martini and you decide to actually put
Speaker 1: vermuth inside it, as opposed to just kind of waving
Speaker 1: it nearby. That's what we're doing this week with Spookiness
Speaker 1: being the vermouth and mixing up our martini. Today is
Speaker 1: Margaret Killjoy, Margaret Hello, Hello, I'm a famous mixologist, so
Speaker 1: clearly this will be very good now Margaret today for
Speaker 1: this very special episode of it could happen here on
Speaker 1: spooky week. You have written us while you've written a
Speaker 1: short story, and you're going to read it and and
Speaker 1: and we're all gonna enjoy it. Is that is that accurate? Um?
Speaker 1: I hope at least I can I can testify to
Speaker 1: the first parts, and I hope for the last part. Excellent.
Speaker 1: All right, Well with without further ado or with minimal
Speaker 1: further ado. Let's uh, let's let's let's you know, with
Speaker 1: the with the stuff, with the stuff, Margaret with the stuff. Well,
Speaker 1: this is great because this is actually a short story
Speaker 1: that you start reading of Oh ship, Yeah, where's that link?
Speaker 1: You tasted it to me? But I don't have my
Speaker 1: phone on me. Okay, let me put it in the
Speaker 1: chat here. Um. Based impressive, to say the least, based
Speaker 1: in fiction. Pilled. Okay, I start reading the italics. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the first, a couple of paragraphs of introduction, and
Speaker 1: that you're you're interviewing me. Alright, motherfucker's let's get it started.
Speaker 1: The Northern Host, for all it's lingering horror and misery,
Speaker 1: the wake of a war is rich to reign for
Speaker 1: a folkloreist like myself. More people report more supernatural experiences
Speaker 1: during times of war than times of peace. Some of
Speaker 1: my peers have argued the stress and shock of battle
Speaker 1: leaves our brains more susceptible to mass delusion. Others claim
Speaker 1: that the veil between worlds remains thin when so many
Speaker 1: are passing from life to death. The Second American Civil
Speaker 1: War has been no exception. Most famously, of course, soldiers
Speaker 1: from each of the three armies present at the fifteen
Speaker 1: day Siege of Saint Louis reported a wailing man who
Speaker 1: walked among the wounded, healing some and ending the lives
Speaker 1: of others. On the Cascadian Front, rebel forces spoke of
Speaker 1: black bears, who in effect stood sentry for their guerrilla positions.
Speaker 1: During the White Army's occupation of Washington, d C. Civilians
Speaker 1: and soldiers alike reported apparitions pouring out from the Pentagon
Speaker 1: Crater every new moon. Of all the various myths and
Speaker 1: legends to spring up in the wake of the recent conflict, however,
Speaker 1: I find myself most strongly drawn to the stories of
Speaker 1: the Northern Host. Never have I heard a myth recounted
Speaker 1: in such detail by such a wide variety of people.
Speaker 1: My favorite telling comes from Private Sarah Dollar in the
Speaker 1: Battle of Asheville. This interview was recorded in the spring
Speaker 1: of twenty thirty five and lightly edited for clarity with
Speaker 1: permission of the subject. Note that the subject refers to
Speaker 1: the White Army by pejoratives throughout. These have been left
Speaker 1: intact for the historical record. Could you introduce yourself and
Speaker 1: tell me what you saw. Yeah, my my name is
Speaker 1: Sarah Daher. I'm thirty one years old. I live in
Speaker 1: Asheville and the Appalachian region of the United States of
Speaker 1: America on stolen Cherokee Land. My u S military rank
Speaker 1: was private. They made us all privates when they incorporated
Speaker 1: the irregulars into the army, but I only served in
Speaker 1: the Union to fight the White Army a year later.
Speaker 1: I'm one of those crazy radicals who doesn't think the
Speaker 1: reconfiguration goes far enough. I never fired a gun in
Speaker 1: my life before the Irregulars, and I hope I never
Speaker 1: fired another one again. By temperament, I'm neither a lover
Speaker 1: nor a fighter. I'm just your average trans girl who
Speaker 1: likes cats and hates Nazis. I fought in three engagements
Speaker 1: in Weaverville, Leicester, and Asheville. I think I killed two people.
Speaker 1: One of them I know I killed him. I saw
Speaker 1: him bleed out and I saw him taken away in
Speaker 1: a black bag. The other person was a man I
Speaker 1: shot in the thigh during the Battle of Ashville. I
Speaker 1: didn't know you could die from a bullet in the thigh,
Speaker 1: but I've spent a lot of time looking at casualty records,
Speaker 1: and someone who fit that man's general description died in
Speaker 1: that battle from a bullet to the thigh. Does that
Speaker 1: bother you? Yes? No, I don't know. I don't lose
Speaker 1: sleep over it, but I think about it a lot.
Speaker 1: I look at the docks on both of them. The
Speaker 1: first guy was a true believer, a real blood and
Speaker 1: soil type. It doesn't bother me that I mingled those
Speaker 1: two things for him. The second man, though I'm not
Speaker 1: so sure he signed up because his son signed up.
Speaker 1: I don't have any kids myself, but I could see
Speaker 1: myself doing that. His son survived the war. Have you
Speaker 1: been in contact with his son? No funk. That guy
Speaker 1: that kids a fucking Nazi, and I don't know he
Speaker 1: talked his way out of the tribunals. Can you tell
Speaker 1: me what you saw at the Battle of Asheville. This
Speaker 1: was during the Fascist Spring offensive last year, you know
Speaker 1: Hitler's birthday April. By that point, the White Army was
Speaker 1: pretty much done, but they weren't about to go down
Speaker 1: without doing some major symbolic damage. So there were about
Speaker 1: forty of us, all irregulars, with our own commanders, no
Speaker 1: army oversight. Morale was down. We felt pretty abandoned, common
Speaker 1: sentiment in the South. I was on the street out
Speaker 1: in front of the library, walking rounds. Downtown was half
Speaker 1: rubble at that point. Only the library was standing because
Speaker 1: symbols matter and all that bullshit. So that's where we
Speaker 1: were making a stand. Neither side had artillery really by
Speaker 1: that point, the brass had just commandeered even our RPGs
Speaker 1: for the quote real fight. Air support wasn't coming, not
Speaker 1: for them and not for us. Really, the Battle of
Speaker 1: Ashville was was like nothing to the rest of the world,
Speaker 1: and we knew it. So I was doing the rounds,
Speaker 1: thinking about my ship luck, thinking maybe I was going
Speaker 1: to die, and how so many people had died, and
Speaker 1: what's another dead girl to add to the pile. I
Speaker 1: was thinking about how at least this dead girl is
Speaker 1: going to die surrounded by or in defense of books.
Speaker 1: And then I heard dogs from around the side of
Speaker 1: the building. One barked loud and near, the other sort
Speaker 1: of distant and echoy. I went to check it out.
Speaker 1: Turned the corner and there was this naked guy. He
Speaker 1: was pale as hell, tall, tattooed and scarred, and like
Speaker 1: I said, he was naked as the sun. I stared
Speaker 1: at him, he stared at me. I got so distracted
Speaker 1: trying to figure him out that it took me a
Speaker 1: moment to realize there were nine others behind him, or
Speaker 1: maybe they weren't there at first, I don't know. Most
Speaker 1: of them were men, mostly of the tall, Norse looking variety,
Speaker 1: but there was a Middle Eastern man and three women,
Speaker 1: including one who by my read was Latin X. No
Speaker 1: dogs anywhere that I could see. The man closest to me,
Speaker 1: he asked me something in a language I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I just kind of stared. He asked me another question
Speaker 1: in another language. What I asked? Who are you? Who
Speaker 1: are we fighting? He asked? His accent was thick, and
Speaker 1: I couldn't place it for the life of me. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know now, but I sure as ship didn't know
Speaker 1: it then we I asked what I was due back
Speaker 1: out front, because I was a century doing the rounds
Speaker 1: and this sure needed reporting. But what the hell was
Speaker 1: I going to tell? People? Who were we fighting? Where
Speaker 1: are we? You're in Asheville? Who are you? Ah? The
Speaker 1: American conflict, the man said behind him, others nodded. Their
Speaker 1: movements were sloppy, dream like they were drunk. I later
Speaker 1: realized one of them had dried blood running down from
Speaker 1: her lip onto a not insubstantial belly. You're fighting the nationalists,
Speaker 1: the first one said, We're here to help you. Who
Speaker 1: are you? I asked this third time he actually answered,
Speaker 1: my name is bell Gear. We are the dead. We
Speaker 1: are the Eynhyar from Valhalla. Every day we are sent
Speaker 1: to a battle to fight, and we die. The others
Speaker 1: behind him nodded, definitely drunk. Now, I know there were
Speaker 1: good folks on our side who were into European paganism,
Speaker 1: but you have to understand that a lot more of
Speaker 1: the fashion were into that ship than anybody else. If
Speaker 1: they hadn't been naked and drunk, I might have mistaken
Speaker 1: them for the enemy and shot them Valhalla, I said,
Speaker 1: reciting the tiny But I knew that's where Vikings go
Speaker 1: if they die in battle, feast every day and fight
Speaker 1: every night in Odin's hall until the end of the world,
Speaker 1: where you like also fight and die but wolf feeds
Speaker 1: the sun or something close enough, Belgar said. I mean,
Speaker 1: Odin only gets half the battle dead, and Viking isn't
Speaker 1: a good name for us. But sure, and you're here
Speaker 1: because we are to take arms alongside you, fight your
Speaker 1: enemies and die today, and are going to die today.
Speaker 1: Only the seers and the gods know that. I've been
Speaker 1: calling myself a witch half of my life, but honestly
Speaker 1: that was mostly because I like taro and astrology and
Speaker 1: panagrams and ship. I've never been someone who took the
Speaker 1: supernatural all that seriously. But nothing in the world made
Speaker 1: sense like it used to. Fascists had just been driven
Speaker 1: out of d C. Cascadia had not only succeeded, but
Speaker 1: was in a civil war of its own. Now Mexico
Speaker 1: was gone and replaced by self governing states of almost
Speaker 1: every stripe in the political rainbow. China had backed white
Speaker 1: supremacists and other nationalist types, and in Amry in civil
Speaker 1: war and anti government leftists were fighting alongside weirdos like
Speaker 1: me in the damn u s Army. I can't say
Speaker 1: those things were as weird as naked dead don't call
Speaker 1: us vikings talking to me in the street. But somehow
Speaker 1: all of that was just comparably bizarre. Come let us
Speaker 1: arm ourselves and fight together. You and I belger said.
Speaker 1: So that's how I met the Northern host. Most people
Speaker 1: don't believe me, assume it was just some kind of
Speaker 1: drunk wing nuts, maybe some irregulars I've never met before.
Speaker 1: But I saw what I saw, and I believe it.
Speaker 1: The rest of us who survived they saw it too.
Speaker 1: And how did it go? Yeah? Pardon the battle? How
Speaker 1: did it go? We got the inn here yard into
Speaker 1: irregular's garb and armed them. There were plenty of guns
Speaker 1: at that point in the forgotten hellhole up front, Bullets
Speaker 1: not so much but plenty of guns. They were all
Speaker 1: comfortable with firearms. The one fellow groused about what he
Speaker 1: wouldn't do for an axe and shield, and another said
Speaker 1: what we had was fine, but monofilament web guns were
Speaker 1: better than any combat shotgun. To hear them, tell it,
Speaker 1: funk it? Why am I pretending like I don't believe them?
Speaker 1: I believe them with every bit of my soul, and
Speaker 1: damn what people think of me for it. The Northern
Speaker 1: Host fight every night and every night. They are in
Speaker 1: a different time and place. Most battles in human history
Speaker 1: were in the past, they said, which sounds optimistic, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: But they said they fought in every century up to
Speaker 1: nothing happens after the century Ragnarok most likely the end
Speaker 1: of the world, wolves eating the sun and the moon.
Speaker 1: All that. They stood guard out with me out front.
Speaker 1: Around midday we got hit with an e MP. We
Speaker 1: knew that was coming. It didn't screw us up much.
Speaker 1: We had a hardened phone in the basement, and all
Speaker 1: our weapons operated just as well in dumb mode a
Speaker 1: smart mode, including our own e MPs. The White Army
Speaker 1: showed up maybe a hundred men, all men. That's their
Speaker 1: whole stick. They came in on motorcycles and a t
Speaker 1: v s and horses more stick, Like, how fucking folksy
Speaker 1: they are. We hit them with the m e mp
Speaker 1: s anyway, level the field, took out the a t
Speaker 1: v s, the bikes were retrofitted, no electric and a horse.
Speaker 1: You can't imp a horse. I don't know if there
Speaker 1: was a skirmish in that war that didn't start with
Speaker 1: both sides ritually knocking the other one back to basically
Speaker 1: the twentieth century. I think the tactical e MP is
Speaker 1: the reason there's anything left of this country. We took
Speaker 1: a few pot shots while they were still at range,
Speaker 1: but we didn't have the AMMO to waste on anything else.
Speaker 1: I don't think we did any damage. They took up
Speaker 1: position further up the hill and the ruins of the
Speaker 1: old Basilica. Then we waited. We should have mined the church.
Speaker 1: That old thing was blown half to ship. Anyway, It
Speaker 1: wouldn't have made the world any worse if we'd either
Speaker 1: leveled it or hidden explosives throughout. But you know, ethical
Speaker 1: war or whatever, don't mind churches. The other side leveled
Speaker 1: every mosques, synagogue and quote heretic church. They got their
Speaker 1: hands on, not to mention libraries and universities and even
Speaker 1: the goddamn Statue of Liberty because they had immigrants. But
Speaker 1: we were supposed to be fighting a quote ethical war.
Speaker 1: Those two words don't got nothing to do with one another,
Speaker 1: and everyone knows it. So they hold up in the
Speaker 1: basilica and we pulled back into the library and we
Speaker 1: had one of those good old fashioned standoffs where people
Speaker 1: die slowly from sniper fire and everything is awful. That's
Speaker 1: when Laura got shot right in the head because we
Speaker 1: missed a spot when we bullet proof of the facade.
Speaker 1: She's dead. She had natural red hair, but she always
Speaker 1: died at redder and her favorite show was Buffy the
Speaker 1: Vampire Slayer, and she liked to drink water out of
Speaker 1: long stem glasses. She was I think she was thirty seven,
Speaker 1: way past rafting age. She volunteered. It was her first engagement.
Speaker 1: She was only there because she loved books, had plenty
Speaker 1: of time to avoid looking at her corpse while she
Speaker 1: was in there with us dead. Dwight was another one
Speaker 1: of my friends in the unit, one of my favorite people,
Speaker 1: hands down, total weirdo, and he was all obsessed with
Speaker 1: that Viking ship in Dark Ages in general. Both his
Speaker 1: parents had come over from Sweden, though his dad was
Speaker 1: originally from Nigeria. Dwight had one degree in medieval studies
Speaker 1: in another African history, and I I can't tell you
Speaker 1: how many times during basic run down the details of
Speaker 1: this or that ancient battle, whether in Europe or Africa.
Speaker 1: If there were guns involved, he didn't care about it.
Speaker 1: But if there were swords and armor or spears and shields,
Speaker 1: he was all in. He started talking to the Vikings.
Speaker 1: First thing. He was the first person to believe them,
Speaker 1: to to really believe them, and his faith was contagious.
Speaker 1: While we were pinned down, he asked them everything. Mostly
Speaker 1: they were quiet, even taciturn, but there was one thing
Speaker 1: they were very insistent on and that I overheard them
Speaker 1: talking about Nazis don't go to Valhalla. But why not?
Speaker 1: Dwight asked, It takes two things to go to Valhalla.
Speaker 1: The spokesperson said, you have to die in battle and
Speaker 1: you have to venerate odin a bunch of those fuckers
Speaker 1: or oldness. He said, no, they aren't. Their nationalist, fascist,
Speaker 1: racial separatists. They're all kinds of things, but they don't
Speaker 1: venerate Odin. Whatever they think, What do you mean? They
Speaker 1: only know one half of Odin. They know the masculine side,
Speaker 1: the heterosexual side, the Christian side. They worship a bastardization
Speaker 1: of our God, a bastardization first created by a nationalist
Speaker 1: Christian eight hundred years ago that's only gotten further afield
Speaker 1: since our Odin practices women's magic, the magic of these
Speaker 1: sexually penetrated. We also worshiped female gods of war, and
Speaker 1: male gods of the hearth, and gods who change their
Speaker 1: gender when they're bored. Nazis don't understand that any of it.
Speaker 1: In life, we raided, sometimes traded, other times. We also
Speaker 1: did all sorts of things that won't fit your modern sensibilities,
Speaker 1: things that were I alive you might kill me for.
Speaker 1: But we're not Nazis. And people who worship a Christian
Speaker 1: version of our God most certainly do not go to Valhalla.
Speaker 1: It was as if the man had used up every
Speaker 1: word allotted to him for the day, because I don't
Speaker 1: believe a one of them spoke again before the battle
Speaker 1: began in earnest And how long was that another hour?
Speaker 1: Maybe the sun was still right overhead when the white
Speaker 1: army rushed us. It was a bullshit move, rushing us
Speaker 1: one part over confidence in one part desperation. If you
Speaker 1: can imagine that they knew they were losing the war
Speaker 1: at that point, but they had us more than two
Speaker 1: to one, and we all know that KKK commanders don't
Speaker 1: give two ships about the lives of their men. That's
Speaker 1: when I put a bullet on a man's leg while
Speaker 1: he was in the street running. It was a good shot.
Speaker 1: He was running, and I led the target and everything.
Speaker 1: I've been aiming for center body mass, but but still
Speaker 1: at least a hundred yards against a moving target. I
Speaker 1: was proud of that shot at the time on a
Speaker 1: technical level, even if I'm not sure i'm proud of
Speaker 1: it anymore now that I know the man's name. We
Speaker 1: expected the charge. What we didn't expect was the ordinance
Speaker 1: that knocked the reinforced front off its hinges. But that happened,
Speaker 1: and almost all the fighting happened right there on the
Speaker 1: first floor, among the empty shelves. The whole thing felt
Speaker 1: like it lasted half an hour. I've looked it up since,
Speaker 1: from the time of the first blast at the time
Speaker 1: the last shot was fired, we're talking about three minutes.
Speaker 1: In twelve seconds, we thought they were going to pour
Speaker 1: in through the door after they blew it the funk off.
Speaker 1: So James got in there with our one functioning automatic
Speaker 1: and he took at least ten of the fashion down
Speaker 1: with him before someone got him in the neck. It
Speaker 1: was a faint and they blew a hole in the
Speaker 1: side of the building. Well, well that was going on,
Speaker 1: and that's where they got in close quarters combat as
Speaker 1: a whole different beast, a worse one, maybe maybe a
Speaker 1: better one. I go back on fourth on that. Sometimes
Speaker 1: instead of sleeping, I think about the pros and cons
Speaker 1: of various types of absolute horror. Is it better to
Speaker 1: see your death coming or to get picked off without
Speaker 1: knowing it? I would have thought the Vikings would expend
Speaker 1: themselves right off. I mean Vikings. They were starting to
Speaker 1: sober up by that point, but still they'd been drinking,
Speaker 1: and they were already dead, and they were doomed to die.
Speaker 1: But they were smarter than that, never risked themselves unnecessarily.
Speaker 1: Your next assumption of a comrade you know is doomed
Speaker 1: is that they'll sacrifice themselves to save others. None of
Speaker 1: that either. They knew they were the best trained soldiers
Speaker 1: on the field, and that in order for us to win,
Speaker 1: they had to be in the fight as long as
Speaker 1: they could. They were smart like that, assholes like that.
Speaker 1: I stationed myself in the back. I fancy myself more
Speaker 1: of a sniper than the assault sort, so I watched
Speaker 1: the whole thing go down. I also only hit three
Speaker 1: targets out of a hundred and seventeen bullets I fired.
Speaker 1: But that's another story. I watched us whin. We took
Speaker 1: casualties of fifty percent, half of those were Kia, but
Speaker 1: we defeated a force twice our strength. I watched the
Speaker 1: inn hangar bayonet men and shoot them, and I saw
Speaker 1: one of the Viking women break a man's face apart
Speaker 1: with her fists. Soon after, a bullet found her heart
Speaker 1: and she collapsed with a smile on her lips. She disappeared,
Speaker 1: like literally she phased out of existence. Being me up, Scotty.
Speaker 1: We pushed them back onto the pavement, And when I
Speaker 1: say we, I'm honestly not being fair because I didn't
Speaker 1: do much of it myself. We had them scattered and running,
Speaker 1: most of them. Dwight was out there waving a pistol
Speaker 1: in one hand and swinging a wooden stock rifle like
Speaker 1: a club in the other. A Viking with a shotgun
Speaker 1: stood beside him. I think the same fashy little ship
Speaker 1: killed them both, maybe in the same three round burst.
Speaker 1: I tagged Fashion in his belly, and his friends helped
Speaker 1: him get away, and the remaining Nazis ran. He survived
Speaker 1: his wound. Why do we have so much information about
Speaker 1: the war? Does it do me any good to know
Speaker 1: who I killed and who I didn't? And Dwight. Dwight
Speaker 1: lay alone in the concrete, face down. There wasn't much blood,
Speaker 1: but he was dead. Two ravens sat atop him, one
Speaker 1: on each shoulder. I've never seen a raven in Asheville
Speaker 1: in my life, not before, not since. There were two
Speaker 1: of them, as big as people say those things are.
Speaker 1: They barked and they sounded like dogs. One was loud,
Speaker 1: like it was right where I was. The other was distant, echoing.
Speaker 1: Then they flew away, directly up and towards the sun,
Speaker 1: and I tried to watch to see where they went,
Speaker 1: but you can't look directly at the sun like that.
Speaker 1: I looked back down and Dwight was gone. Okay, so
Speaker 1: his body was still there, but there was there was
Speaker 1: something about him that was gone, and I don't know
Speaker 1: how to tell you what it was. That that was
Speaker 1: that we won sort of. They didn't storm the library,
Speaker 1: guess means we won. But sometimes I'd think I'd burn
Speaker 1: every single book in that place. It would bring back
Speaker 1: Lord or Dwight or any of the rest of my friends.
Speaker 1: The war was over at that point, even if we
Speaker 1: didn't know it yet. So what did they die for?
Speaker 1: I guess for symbols. Maybe symbols matter that much. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I deserted after that. Half the survivors of
Speaker 1: the Battle of Asheville died less than a week later
Speaker 1: up in Pittsburgh. And I suppose I'd be dead if
Speaker 1: I had gone, And it probably makes me a coward
Speaker 1: that I didn't. It's not that I was afraid of dying.
Speaker 1: It's that I was afraid of dying in battle because
Speaker 1: I believe in Odin. Now it's hard not to believe
Speaker 1: in a god without venerating him. I don't want to
Speaker 1: go to Valhalla. I don't want to fight ever again,
Speaker 1: let alone every night. I don't want to serve with
Speaker 1: the iron and yard at the twilight of the gods
Speaker 1: sometime in the twenty fifth century. If I don't want
Speaker 1: to do that, then I don't want to die in
Speaker 1: battle Dwight, though I expect he's happy. I expect he
Speaker 1: dies every day with a smile on his lips and
Speaker 1: meat in his belly. He won't have to fight alongside
Speaker 1: the monsters of the human race either, because, as I
Speaker 1: learned in Nashville, Nazis don't go to Valhalla. All right,
Speaker 1: that was awesome, Margaret, Thank you. Yeah, thanks Dan. I'll
Speaker 1: put a bunch of applause noise here because translating over
Speaker 1: yeah as an end and and uh an air horn
Speaker 1: stick an. I don't think the air horn is going
Speaker 1: to be that as Garrison air horn. Thank you, Thank
Speaker 1: you Garrison. Margaret, Um, how long ago did you write that?
Speaker 1: I wrote that I believe in seventeen maybe. Yeah, Well
Speaker 1: it's not gotten less relevant. Yeah, man, I uh, there's
Speaker 1: definitely some times where I've I've wished for a platoon
Speaker 1: of vikings uh to deal with some ship. Yeah. Uh,
Speaker 1: well this has been it could happen here and this
Speaker 1: has been spooky week. I hope you enjoyed this scary
Speaker 1: story that's also relevant to our theme. Of collapse, Margaret,
Speaker 1: you want to tell the people where they can find you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Magpie kill Joy. I'm on Instagram
Speaker 1: at Margaret kill Joy. I'm on Patreon at patreon dot
Speaker 1: com slash Margaret Killjoy, where this story and many other
Speaker 1: stories are available for anyone who sponsors me at a
Speaker 1: dollar a month. Then if you make less money than
Speaker 1: I do, then just message me and I'll give you
Speaker 1: all my ship for free. And I have an upcome
Speaker 1: because you've asked me to plug things and I'm definitely
Speaker 1: just gonna go ahead and plug things. Um. I have
Speaker 1: a book coming out from a K Proces. It's a
Speaker 1: reissue of my anarchist utopian book, A Country of Ghosts.
Speaker 1: If you like my very I like writing war stories,
Speaker 1: but I specifically like writing war stories that are actually
Speaker 1: sad and how about how war is horrible? Um, and
Speaker 1: so A Country Ghosts is such a book and this
Speaker 1: story will eventually I'm excited to say I just signed
Speaker 1: a contract for a K Press is going to put
Speaker 1: out a story anthology of mine which will include this.
Speaker 1: Yeah that sounds incredibly rad Yes, great publisher. Yeah, not
Speaker 1: biased at all in that. No, no, no, nor towards
Speaker 1: stories of the Second American Civil War with superior I've
Speaker 1: been introduced to just today. UM, all right, we'll check
Speaker 1: out Margaret's book Parentheses. S uh and and UM check
Speaker 1: out this show when it comes back someday one day.
Speaker 1: You'll never know when, but you'll hear a whisper on
Speaker 1: the wind, and there will be where it will be
Speaker 1: the next weekday after one of those two. Hey, we'll
Speaker 1: be back Monday with more episodes every week from now
Speaker 1: until the heat death of the universe. It Could Happen
Speaker 1: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone
Speaker 1: Media dot com, or check us out on the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated
Speaker 1: monthly at cool Zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening. I'm John Gonzalez, the host of s i
Speaker 1: s new podcast, Sports Illustrated Weekly. Sports Illustrated has delivered
Speaker 1: some of the best storytelling in sports for seventy years,
Speaker 1: and now that continues. On our show. Each week, we'll
Speaker 1: dive deep into the best stories from around the sports
Speaker 1: World Sports Illustrated Weekly is available every Wednesday on the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Subscribe now. I'm Colleen with join me the
Speaker 1: host of Eating Wall Broke podcast while I eat a
Speaker 1: meal created by self made entrepreneurs, influencers and Sela pritties
Speaker 1: over a meal they once eight when they were broke.
Speaker 1: Today I have the lovely aj Crimson, the official Princess
Speaker 1: of Compton, Asia Kindink and Asia. This is the professor.
Speaker 1: We're here on Eating Wall Broken. Today, I'm gonna break
Speaker 1: down my meal that got me through the time when
Speaker 1: I was broken. Listen to Eating Wall Broke on the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, on Apple podcast or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Here's to the great American settlers. The
Speaker 1: millions of you have settled for unsatisfying jobs because they
Speaker 1: paid the bills. Of course, there is something else you
Speaker 1: could do. If you've got something to say, Start a
Speaker 1: podcast with Spreaker from my heart and unleash your creative freedom,
Speaker 1: maybe even earn enough money to one day tell your
Speaker 1: old bus hey, I'm no settler, I'm an explorer. Spreaker
Speaker 1: dot com spr e a k E R Hustle on
Speaker 1: Over Today