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Speaker 1: This is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case underwere listening podcast.

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Speaker 2: You can't predict.

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Speaker 1: Anything brought to you by first Light. When I'm hunting,

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Speaker 1: I need gear that won't quit. First Light builds, no compromise,

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Speaker 1: gear that keeps me in the field longer, no shortcuts,

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Speaker 1: just gear that works. Check it out at first light

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Speaker 1: dot com. That's f I R S T L I

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Speaker 1: T E dot com. All right, everybody, we got a

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Speaker 1: very special guest today who I'll announce in one minute.

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Speaker 2: But uh, first off, oh did you just move that around? Krinn? No, cren,

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Speaker 2: it moved around.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: The Christmas tour we staw our Christmas tour going Fayetteville,

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Speaker 1: Arkansas has sold out, but uh here's run through December seventeenth.

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Speaker 1: Will be in Birmingham, Alabama. As the lyric, So this

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Speaker 1: is the meat Eater. Meat Eater Live. The Christmas Tour

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Speaker 1: December eighteen, Nashville Marathon Music Works, December nineteen, Memphis, Minglewood Hall.

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Speaker 1: The twentieth is Fayetteville, but those are gone. They've been

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Speaker 1: gone for a few days. Twenty one Dallas, Texas Theater,

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Speaker 1: So Texas Theater in Dallas, twenty second Austin, Texas at

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Speaker 1: the Paramount. What's more, if you're listening on Monday for

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Speaker 1: the Monday Drop. On Tuesday, we're having a special drop

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Speaker 1: with a longtime associate, Ronnie Bame, who's going to tell

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Speaker 1: a dog story that'll warm your little heart.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Joined today by Congressman Ryan Zinky. Ryan Zink is a

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Speaker 1: fifth generation Montana serves as representative for Montana's first congressional district,

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Speaker 1: so it covered sixteen counties. If you live in Bozeman, Butte, Missoula,

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Speaker 1: callspell here in Montana, that's your man. Zinki was first

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Speaker 1: elected to Congress back in twenty fourteen. He served as

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Speaker 1: US Secretary of the Interior under the first Trump administration.

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Speaker 1: Is now serving his fourth term in Congress. UH First off,

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Speaker 1: Congressman Zink, I want to thank you.

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Speaker 2: Again.

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Speaker 1: I haven't thanked you in person. I want to thank

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Speaker 1: you again for your leadership during the recent public land

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Speaker 1: sales efforts, for articulating the side of it that I

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Speaker 1: stand on very well and the.

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Speaker 3: Value of our public lands, the reason why we live

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Speaker 3: out West, the reason why Teddy Rooseveld is revered.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, thank you because I know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I recognize it, like you know that that

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Speaker 1: stuff has to come at some kind of costs.

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Speaker 2: And but you come from a state where that stuff's

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Speaker 2: cherished and uh.

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Speaker 1: And you were very vocal up front, yeah, and laid

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Speaker 1: out what you're laid out what you're at expectations, were

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Speaker 1: laid out what your line was and held firm to it.

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Speaker 2: And I think we.

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Speaker 1: Had, you know, that land where I wanted to see

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Speaker 1: it land, and my all my colleagues and friends wanted

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Speaker 1: to see it land.

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Speaker 2: And I appreciate that.

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Speaker 3: Well, the fight for freedom is not over, and I

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Speaker 3: don't think the land battles over either.

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Speaker 2: No. Yeh.

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Speaker 3: Look, you know I grew up Montana. You know the

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Speaker 3: reason why a lot of us live out West. And

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Speaker 3: you know, I think it should be recognized too that

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Speaker 3: we live out in West from a legacy of the

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Speaker 3: great ones. You know, he had Roosevelt, you had Pinchot,

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Speaker 3: you had mirror a lot of our our great thinkers

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Speaker 3: in the conservation movement. We're blessed to live in an

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Speaker 3: environment we have public lands, and you know the extent

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Speaker 3: of our public lands. Uh. You know, I'm a big

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Speaker 3: management and Teddy Roosevelt guy, with a pin show. Look

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Speaker 3: on public lands, it's best used, best science, best practices,

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Speaker 3: longest term, greatest good. That's the model you use. And

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Speaker 3: you know, during this last dust up, there's a movement

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Speaker 3: by a few that want to divest of America's greatest asset,

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Speaker 3: which is our public lands, and the divesting of it

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Speaker 3: once you sell it, you're not going to get back.

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Speaker 3: But there's also a process. When I was Secretary, I added,

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Speaker 3: I subtracted, I exchanged public lands. There's a process to it.

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Speaker 3: I added Semnoso Wilderness in New Mexico. I added a

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Speaker 3: number of parcels that were LWCF that provided either public

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Speaker 3: access or corridors. I also subtracted around Las Vegas. There's

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Speaker 3: an acronym called Snipplema terrible acronym, but allows areas around

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Speaker 3: Las Vegas when the county and there's a whole procedure

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Speaker 3: looking at it to divest in sections, and look, there's

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Speaker 3: sections the highest and best use of land you know,

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Speaker 3: probably should be looked at. I'll give you an example

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Speaker 3: in Montana. There's thirty acres a U. S. Forest Service

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Speaker 3: property near Lima or Lima and you know, Lineless, a

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Speaker 3: little small little town, but it's right next to the school.

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Speaker 3: At one time, I think the Forest Service is going

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Speaker 3: to put a headquarters in there. They decided not to.

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Speaker 3: It's not used for recreation, it's not used for habitat,

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Speaker 3: it's just thirty acres. I think the highest and best

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Speaker 3: use of that piece of property should be looked at

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Speaker 3: of transferring to the school. I did the same thing

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Speaker 3: on an airport that needed a little more runway. I

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Speaker 3: did it on a school that needed some extra yardage.

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Speaker 3: But you know there's a process to it. And let

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Speaker 3: me take you a little journey. Because you know, most

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Speaker 3: of the land in West was previously occupied by you know,

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Speaker 3: a native tribe, and because a lot of that land

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Speaker 3: is public land, is that they are given the right

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Speaker 3: for cultural activities, for movement, for access to a lot

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Speaker 3: of our public lands. When you take that out of

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Speaker 3: the public domain and put it in private on those tribes,

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Speaker 3: if it's a treaty, which many of the tribes are

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Speaker 3: a treaty tribe, they would lose that right. And by

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Speaker 3: law you have to consult. And then let's talk about

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Speaker 3: water rights, because in the West whiskeys for drinking waters,

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Speaker 3: for fighting, and when you divest of property, do you

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Speaker 3: also divest the of the underwater, right do you divest

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Speaker 3: also of the mineral rights in there? And if you're

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Speaker 3: going to divest the mineral rights, you have to look

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Speaker 3: at what minerals are there, what's the scope of the

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Speaker 3: value so highest and best use. But also the government,

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Speaker 3: you know, it doesn't give something away for free. And

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Speaker 3: and also there's things like the Taylor Grazing Act. A

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Speaker 3: lot of the BLM land on grazing is there at

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Speaker 3: a discount because the Taylor Grazing Act make sure that

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Speaker 3: the number of cattle on public land is controlled so

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Speaker 3: it doesn't overgraze. And also so we had a secure

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Speaker 3: food production in this country. So when you're talking about

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Speaker 3: divesting a public land, there's a whole process to it

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Speaker 3: to include public comment. You know, just because public land

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Speaker 3: is in New Mexico or Utah or Montana, it belongs

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Speaker 3: to all citizens and therefore all citizens of the US

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Speaker 3: should have a comment, you know, on it and be

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Speaker 3: involved in it. So the whole process. What I didn't

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Speaker 3: like about about a number of things was this last

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Speaker 3: assault I think on public lands, and there was no

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Speaker 3: process to it. It didn't have consultation and a fire

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Speaker 3: sale on public land. If it's for a debt, you're

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Speaker 3: not even on the target. You could sell everything, it's

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Speaker 3: not going to reach thirty six truellion dollars.

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Speaker 2: I saw that.

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Speaker 1: I saw that expressed in various ways, and I expressed

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Speaker 1: it in various ways where the actual money into the treasury,

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Speaker 1: it almost winds up being inconsequential.

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Speaker 3: And there's a million acre ranch in Nevada. I think

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Speaker 3: they want twenty three million dollars for it, all right,

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Speaker 3: And it has water and it has buildings, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's a ranch. And then if you're talking about housing, okay,

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Speaker 3: housing is tens of acres. It's called an apartment complex.

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Speaker 3: It's not hundreds of thousands of acres. And it's not

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Speaker 3: you know, when they say family housing, it's not ranchets.

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Speaker 3: It's not luxury ranchets. So you know, I think we

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Speaker 3: are fortunate to live in a great country, and we're

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Speaker 3: fortunate to have the outdoor experience we do, largely driven

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Speaker 3: by public lands and access. Do we need to manage

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Speaker 3: it better? Absolutely? Should we deem it acceptable for a

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Speaker 3: force to burn down you know every season. And look,

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Speaker 3: if you're a climate change believer or denier, it doesn't

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Speaker 3: leave you. We leave you the responsibility of managing our

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Speaker 3: public lands. Get rid of the dead and dying timber.

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Speaker 3: Put in fire brakes where where they're necessary, make sure

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Speaker 3: you have diversity of species. Prescribe burns on the shoulder

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Speaker 3: seasons rather right in the middle on when it gets hot.

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Speaker 3: So I think you know, you look at where it

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Speaker 3: is on appalling. You know, I'd love to share it

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Speaker 3: with you and the viewers. Is that on the Democrat

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Speaker 3: side of the equation, I think it's ninety eight percent

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Speaker 3: of the Democrats oppose selling the land on independence, you're

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Speaker 3: in the high eighties eighty nine. On the Republican side,

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Speaker 3: only ten percent want to sell public land. The other

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Speaker 3: don't that don't know about it. When you say public

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Speaker 3: land sales, is it? Is it thirty acres in in

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Speaker 3: Lima or is it you know, three million acres around

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Speaker 3: Glacier Park? So you know it is for the Republican Party.

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Speaker 3: I can tell you it would be an extinction event

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Speaker 3: because I could write the advertisement you're giving tax bricks

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Speaker 3: the rich while you're selling public land, you know, and it

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Speaker 3: would be true. So stop it. That's focus on managing

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Speaker 3: public land. And if you look at a parcel of

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Speaker 3: land that highest and best use. There's a process to it.

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Speaker 3: So go through the process, go through public comment, you know,

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Speaker 3: make sure we're not diminishing our federal estate from a

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Speaker 3: point of view of public access for hunting, fishing, all

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Speaker 3: those kind of things. Oftentimes exchanges, you know work work magnificently,

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Speaker 3: or some land may be in a position where you

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Speaker 3: don't have public access to it all. All four corners

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Speaker 3: are are are surrounded, and it may be a better

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Speaker 3: deal for the public to exchange it for someplace that's

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Speaker 3: next to a river or access somewhere where you can

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Speaker 3: enjoy the bounty of this great nation.

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Speaker 1: Do you mind, just by way of introduction to people

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Speaker 1: that might not follow politics closely, do you do you

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Speaker 1: mind walking through a little bit of your background. Your

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Speaker 1: family's been in Montana for a very long time, you know,

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Speaker 1: and then you had a pretty storied uh you know,

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Speaker 1: you had a storied military career and were involved in

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. Yeah, involved in a lot of

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Speaker 1: things that a lot of people heard a lot of things

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Speaker 1: about over the last twenty years.

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Speaker 3: Well, I grew up in Whitefish. When Whitefish, Montana now

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Speaker 3: a destination, but when I grew up It was a

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Speaker 3: railroad logging town, you know, smaller town, about five thousand folks.

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Speaker 3: Over a period of time that expanded into a destination.

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Speaker 3: I played football. You went to the University of Oregon.

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Speaker 3: I was a duck, played played ball with it for

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Speaker 3: the Ducks. But in all honesty, i'd played before Phil

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Speaker 3: Knight wrote the check for five hundred million. So I

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Speaker 3: played with Daffy Duck on the side of my helmet

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Speaker 3: when I went walked in the stadium. It wasn't this

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Speaker 3: big fear. Oh, it was a It was a Daffy

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Speaker 3: Duck call. And then I joined in the Navy Seals,

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Speaker 3: spent twenty three years. I was commander at Seal Team six.

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Speaker 1: Tell me real quick the inflection point, like, why did

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Speaker 1: you join the military.

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Speaker 3: Well, to be honest with you, my folks are are

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Speaker 3: not military. Our family in World War One, some of

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Speaker 3: them fought on the German side, some of them fought

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Speaker 3: on our side. But it was when I was at Oregon.

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Speaker 3: It was a great alumni. Admiral Dick he commanded the

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Speaker 3: Enterprise during Vietnam War, and he talked to me about

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Speaker 3: about service, and he talked to me about the United

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Speaker 3: States Navy seals, which he was a pilot, and he

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Speaker 3: didn't lie to me like recruiters don't lie, they may

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Speaker 3: not express the entire truth. Yeah, I remember his words distinctly, said,

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Speaker 3: you know, if you don't like it, you can leave

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Speaker 3: at any time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember that like a cycle.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, as I was in Bud's training getting tortured in

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Speaker 3: the surf zone and going, you know what, Yeah, he's right,

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Speaker 3: you could quit any time. He wasn't lying. Uh, but

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Speaker 3: the seal training is you know, obviously very hard for

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Speaker 3: for a reason. And then uh, I enjoyed, uh, being

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Speaker 3: being a CeAl. I enjoyed being a commander. It's just that,

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Speaker 3: you know, the more senior become, the less and less

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Speaker 3: time you're actually in the field and the more time

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Speaker 3: you're flying what's called a D four was a desk

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Speaker 3: with four drawers. And it came to the point where,

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Speaker 3: you know, I was a deputy commander of Special Forces

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Speaker 3: in Iraq. My destiny was not to go back into command,

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Speaker 3: but uh, you know, to do the staff and and

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Speaker 3: there's a god bless those people that want to do it.

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Speaker 3: So I retired, and I hadn't decided to retire. Was

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Speaker 3: a state senator in Montana. And then I got this

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Speaker 3: wacky idea to run for Congress and uh and was

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Speaker 3: elected uh and then served a term, you know, learned

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Speaker 3: a lot. And then President Trump and forty five asked

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Speaker 3: me to be secretary. I enjoyed that, did that for

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Speaker 3: a command tour for two years, and then took a

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Speaker 3: wonderful absence away from Washington, d C. And then decided,

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Speaker 3: because we got another another seat in Montana, to come back,

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Speaker 3: go back to the front line on the fight for freedom.

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Speaker 3: And and that's where I am. I enjoy you know,

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Speaker 3: representing Montana. Montana has you know, a lot of opportunity,

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Speaker 3: really really good people. Well I has some issues, oh

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Speaker 3: like like every every state. But I'm an optimist. I

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Speaker 3: haven't seen anything that's not fixable. But there are some

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Speaker 3: threats out there. And we talked a little about public Land.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that threat is doused. I don't think

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Speaker 3: that campfire is doust I think I think it has

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Speaker 3: a chance of coming back. So we have to make

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Speaker 3: sure that we do our part to make sure that

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Speaker 3: that it doesn't come back, and if it does, it

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Speaker 3: remains unsuccessful. And in Davy Jones Box where alongs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're you're you want to tell people about the

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Speaker 2: Public Lands Caucus.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's bipartisan. Uh, we have twenty members, ten

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Speaker 3: on on on each side.

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Speaker 2: Is that normal for a caucus to be?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't say normal because I know there's some that

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Speaker 1: are both. But is it is it?

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Speaker 2: Is it caucus? Is it preferential to be bipartisan? There

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Speaker 2: are both?

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Speaker 3: There are both, uh, partisan and non partisan. This is

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Speaker 3: a non partisan caucus because you know, again, public lands

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Speaker 3: isn't the Republican or Democrat or independent issues. It's a red,

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Speaker 3: white and blue issue. We all enjoy it. But I

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Speaker 3: think it's important to have both sides of the aisle.

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Speaker 3: And it's not just about selling public land. It's about

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Speaker 3: management issues. We have wildlife corridors that we have to

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Speaker 3: look at and evaluate to make sure we protect. We

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Speaker 3: have systems, we have watersheds. You know, what happens upstream

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Speaker 3: affects downstream and in a system approach to make sure

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Speaker 3: we have healthy systems our environment. And you know we

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Speaker 3: live in a hyper Parisian world. You know. As a seal,

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Speaker 3: I fought with Americans for Americans. I don't want to

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Speaker 3: fight against Americans. I think it's repulsive that there's so

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Speaker 3: much anger out there that you can't have a normal conversation. Look,

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Speaker 3: we should be able to agree or disagree, but it's

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Speaker 3: not be disagreeable and kind.

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Speaker 2: Of quote yourself back to you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I saw you speak a couple times in DC this

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Speaker 1: year where you were honored by Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership,

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Speaker 1: where I'm a board member, and you had two things

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Speaker 1: you'd said.

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Speaker 2: I told Crane abottom one you gave when you came

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Speaker 2: to speak to us as a group.

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Speaker 1: You talked about this was before it got hot, but

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Speaker 1: you said we need to turn the heat down. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and things got hotter since then.

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Speaker 3: I agree.

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Speaker 1: And then the other thing you said is you were

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Speaker 1: talking about you said if you were talking about public lands,

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Speaker 1: the public estate, and you had said, hey, if you

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Speaker 1: have a hotel and it's not being managed, well, do

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Speaker 1: you sell the motel or do you change the management?

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Speaker 3: Exactly it is, you know, a great point, my great

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Speaker 3: friends from Utah. I understand the frustration about getting a

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Speaker 3: ticket on a county road. I understand the frustration of

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Speaker 3: being locked out of public land of access. I understand

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Speaker 3: the frustration of watching the forest burn down every year,

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Speaker 3: and we burned more too, by fours last year we

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Speaker 3: ever harvested. So I understand the frustration about mismanagement. But

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Speaker 3: the solution, again using the hotel analogy, is not sell

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Speaker 3: the hotel. Let's get better management. And better management is

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Speaker 3: going back to what best science, best practices, greatest good,

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Speaker 3: longest term. That's the conservation American conservation ethic that that

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Speaker 3: Pinchot and Roosevelt and a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 3: superb scientists over the course of time have adhered to.

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Speaker 3: And I think we owe it to those that gave

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Speaker 3: us the legacy to continue that process. And you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of going back to the hyper partisan you know,

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Speaker 3: how do you break through, Well, you find something we

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Speaker 3: both agree on, right, and then you talk about it,

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Speaker 3: and then you have a working relationship. Because Congress is

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Speaker 3: a working relationship. It's four hundred and thirty five different

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Speaker 3: members from different different parts, but you got to work

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Speaker 3: together in order to get things done. So you work together,

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Speaker 3: and then if you find something that's easy to work

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Speaker 3: with together, maybe the next step is finding something a

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Speaker 3: little more difficult. So then it's relationships. But public land

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Speaker 3: should be a rallying call for Americans because Americans revere

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Speaker 3: our public lands, and where the debate is is sometimes

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Speaker 3: how best to manage it? And I sit in the

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Speaker 3: in the corner of the conservationists. That's multiple use. If

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Speaker 3: kind of my background is a boy scout when you

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Speaker 3: when you have a campground, leave the campground and is

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Speaker 3: good or better condition you find it so you can mine.

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Speaker 3: But we're not gonna mine like Butte. We're not gonna

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Speaker 3: mine like Virginia Beach or Virginia City. You know, you

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Speaker 3: bring a paddle board up up the river and destroy

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Speaker 3: the river. If we're gonna minelet's do it correctly. There's

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Speaker 3: new mind techniques and we need to mind. There's there's

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Speaker 3: critical minerals rarer some Montana that are are wonderful that

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Speaker 3: we need. But let's do it right. Let's go through

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Speaker 3: the process. It's not skip steps, but let's go through

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Speaker 3: the process and then make sure we have a reclamation

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Speaker 3: plan that works. And I think all of us would

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Speaker 3: would would get along a lot better if we looked

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Speaker 3: at you know, multiple use and management side of it.

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Speaker 3: And I do agree that you know, wilderness is set

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Speaker 3: aside because wilderness those areas with the lightest touch. But

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Speaker 3: it doesn't mean no touch. I'll give you example in

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Speaker 3: Hawaii when it was secretary, when the Hawaiian volcano on

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Speaker 3: the Big Island was was blowing up a lot of

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Speaker 3: that cauldra is actually in proposed wilderness. And if you

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Speaker 3: by the letter of the law, the superintendent down there

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Speaker 3: would not allow me as a secretary to put scientific

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Speaker 3: instrumentation on the type of that on the side of

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Speaker 3: that cauldron because there was in a proposed wilderness. Now

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Speaker 3: I had to take a visit out there, uh and

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Speaker 3: and relook at that. But let's say in our wilderness

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Speaker 3: in Montana and the Bob Marshall. So what if you

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Speaker 3: have an appearance of zebra muscles and the and the

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Speaker 3: and the upper South Fork. Well, you know, I think

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Speaker 3: when zebra muscles, I think you should use scientific instrumentation

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Speaker 3: out there. And I think it's okay to put a

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Speaker 3: wheel in in order to eradicate and eliminate the threat

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Speaker 3: early enough. We have pine beetle the devastation across. So

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Speaker 3: you can use management techniques. You know, if you if

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Speaker 3: you don't like the sound of a chainsaw, clear and trail,

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Speaker 3: then maybe a couple of times a year you got

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Speaker 3: to be able to use electric chainsaws and clear the

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Speaker 3: trail so people have access.

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Speaker 1: We had a fisheries biologist on the show one time. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me let me real quick, just catch people up

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Speaker 1: on a point here. What we're talking about is about

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Speaker 1: two percent of the country is federally designated wilderness, and

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Speaker 1: it sort of enjoys what I feel is the for

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Speaker 1: my personal opinion, and enjoys kind of like the perfect

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Speaker 1: layer of protection where it's non motorized but you can

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Speaker 1: still hunt it, right, and that picture like a park

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Speaker 1: where you can hunt.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's great.

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Speaker 3: And the Wilderness Act was a great compromise between conservationists

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Speaker 3: between cattlemen. Uh and, And that's why you can hunt

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Speaker 3: on wilderness. That's why you can they can graze in

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Speaker 3: the fish camp yep. Uh And and you're you're limited

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Speaker 3: to what you can do mechanically. You know, you can't

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Speaker 3: bring a week.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the fisheries biologist thing is they were

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Speaker 1: they were working I think it was in the heat

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Speaker 1: of wilderness area and they have these strains of cutthroat

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Speaker 1: trout that's fairly imperiled fish and fires yep will destroy

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Speaker 1: whole rivers. And he was talking about when they were

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Speaker 1: trying to get fish stock samples, couldn't use helicopters, and

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Speaker 1: he wound up.

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Speaker 2: They wound up. I think they thought.

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Speaker 1: About it a little bit, but in the end he

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Speaker 1: wound up taking packstock and trying to figure out how

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Speaker 1: to move fish with packstocks because he couldn't beget a

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Speaker 1: helicopter in there, you know.

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Speaker 3: And then and then you got in New Mexico. You

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Speaker 3: got a lot of areas where where a guzzlers is required,

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Speaker 3: which means that there's not a lot of water out there.

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Speaker 3: So there's guzzlers out there that allow sheep to have

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Speaker 3: access to water. So and in order to make sure

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Speaker 3: that those guzzlers have water in them, you know, I

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Speaker 3: don't have a problem take you to truck and occasionally

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Speaker 3: feeding the guzzlers. So you have wildlife out there.

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Speaker 2: But oh no, well.

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Speaker 3: You got you got to put it in a backpack,

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Speaker 3: you know, one gallon at a time, and it stopped. Guys.

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Speaker 2: The point is the argument is it's a slippery slope.

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Speaker 2: That's a slip.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know what, but a lot of things are

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Speaker 3: a slippy slope. But you know, it's about management. It's

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Speaker 3: about effective management, and and and have some degree of

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Speaker 3: common sense to things. Uh, you know, in willness, I

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Speaker 3: get the lightest, lightest touch because you want to look

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Speaker 3: at the majesty of nature. But but nature can be

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Speaker 3: pretty tough too. So if you have ravaging forest fires

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Speaker 3: and it burns down every tree uh in the watershed,

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Speaker 3: and it puts so much sediment and and silt in

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Speaker 3: the in the watershed that the fish will die, you know,

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Speaker 3: especially if you have you know, a species in trouble,

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Speaker 3: which we do in Montana. You know, what's the purpose?

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Speaker 3: So do you did you prevent uh? You know damage? No?

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Speaker 3: What you did? Is you you allow? How did it happen?

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Speaker 3: So you can you can't do management practices. It's a

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Speaker 3: scale of how much and no one, no one's advocating

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Speaker 3: you know, timber sales in wilderness. But certainly if you

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Speaker 3: have a disease, if you have in the case of

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Speaker 3: bill kill or or disease with aquatic invasive species, then

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Speaker 3: and then I think you do need to be a

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Speaker 3: judgment to get on it quickly and to make sure

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Speaker 3: it make sure it doesn't spread.

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Speaker 2: Here's here's large Y.

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Speaker 1: I'm not large y A big part of why I

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Speaker 1: want to talk to you, and I'm curious how you

433
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: think about things. Is my personal tendency is to be

434
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: something of an absolutist on wilderness protections. I have friends

435
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 1: that are very involved in policy, very involved in the

436
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 1: conservation world, and sometimes they'll make this argument and you

437
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: made it too, that.

438
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: We can't always just.

439
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: There has to be some compromise in order to turn

440
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 1: the heat down a little bit.

441
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 2: And that was some of what you were talking about.

442
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: Where there are people like people that advocate for public land,

443
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: massive public land sell offs, have sets of.

444
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 2: Frustrations, right absolutely, and.

445
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: So like I'm open to at least I'd like to

446
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: hear articulations of ways in which some of those frustrations

447
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: can be addressed where we maintain the integrity of what

448
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,640
Speaker 1: we're trying to protect. And then therefore, as you said,

449
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 1: turn down the heat a little bit by having an

450
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: open ear and being like okay.

451
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 3: And this is exactly what the Public Lands Caucus is

452
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 3: intended to do, to turn the heat down and discuss,

453
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 3: you know, areas where we can agree.

454
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 2: And it seems like fire is a big one, well, fire.

455
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 3: Wildlife corridors management, I think fishing people, you know, Democrats

456
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 3: and Republicans and independence we all hunt. We want to

457
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 3: make sure our herds are healthy. All right, if you

458
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 3: have you know, whether you know, pick a disease, blue

459
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 3: tongue or or chronic waste disease. There's a lot of

460
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 3: things in there and that's not natural. Is it natural?

461
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:14,719
Speaker 3: Or are we going to just let it, you know,

462
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 3: let it, let it go to the end, or are

463
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 3: we going to intervene? And this is where discussion should

464
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 3: should be made. And also the Wilderness Act, well was

465
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty four. That was a product of compromise. Well,

466
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 3: so is our constitution. And in nineteen sixty four America

467
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 3: was a little different. Back in nineteen sixty four, we're

468
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 3: sitting in boze in Montana. I can show you pictures

469
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 3: from nineteen sixty four. I was born here in sixty one.

470
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 3: Bozeman has changed since then, and sometimes you got to

471
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 3: upgrade the plan in order to protect your assets because

472
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 3: things have changed. What's changed in Montana during my lifetime

473
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 3: is that when I grew up, there was never a

474
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 3: problem with public access because there was was any fenses there,

475
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 3: you know there there there was less people out you know,

476
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 3: in the woods, you know, you know, people just most

477
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 3: people lived in town or but there was never a

478
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 3: problem with public access or hunting, and now there are.

479
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 3: There's a lot more fences set up. Public access is

480
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 3: harder to find corners, you know, that's that's a big discussion.

481
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 3: It wasn't in corners when I grew up because no

482
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 3: one was there. Now the discussion, so, you know, looking

483
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 3: at it, upgrading the plan, so you know what's important.

484
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 3: Public access is important. System health is important, not just

485
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 3: a segment of the river, but the river itself, not

486
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 3: just a segment of the forest, but the health of

487
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 3: the forest and the systems and wildlife corridors and flyways

488
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 3: to make sure the systems operate. And that takes again

489
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 3: going back to best science, best practices. You know, what's

490
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 3: the greatest good, what's the longest term? You know, how

491
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 3: to manage assets for the next one hundred years. And

492
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 3: you know, we talked about a little about our you know,

493
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 3: the legacy we were given, and I think the biggest

494
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 3: challenge is how do we manage it for the next

495
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 3: centerd years give them the change that's happened since Roosevelt

496
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 3: was president and over one hundred years ago, he faced

497
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 3: different challenges of what we face today. We do face

498
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 3: rural interface, forest fires, you know, diseases, invasive species. There's

499
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 3: a lot more on the plate about challenges, and not

500
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 3: all of them are impossible, but I think we do

501
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 3: got to look at innovative ways and maybe maybe find,

502
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 3: you know, how to protect what I think are our

503
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 3: greatest treasures. You know, how are we going to protect

504
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 3: the herds? Because if you don't protect you know, wildlife corridors,

505
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 3: because you know, large game they transit between summer range

506
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 3: and winter range and if that is blocked by sets

507
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 3: offenses or highways or development, and then they lose that

508
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 3: access to their feeding grounds too. So how do we

509
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 3: look at the corridors? How do I identify the corridors?

510
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, you prioritize that when you were Secretary of the

511
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: Interior and there was and that kickstarted, I mean a

512
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: ton of work. Then do you do you feel like,

513
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: what do you think is gonna happen with in like

514
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: in Trump too, with the current administration, do you feel

515
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: that there's gonna be sort of a vocalization or rededication

516
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: around some of the work that like that that you

517
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: initiated on on corridors.

518
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 2: I mean you get that kind of that conversation really

519
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 2: came to life during those years.

520
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I like I like Doug Burgham. He's, you know,

521
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 3: from North Dakota, so he has kind of a Western

522
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 3: tilt to his walk. North Dakota's a little different Montana.

523
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 3: But I've talked to him about wildlife corridors and reorganization,

524
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 3: which I think is important. And a lot of times

525
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 3: it's not more money into the system, it's better utilization

526
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 3: of the funding. And I'll give you an example, and

527
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 3: we've got to follow me on this, but let's say

528
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 3: you have a trout and a salmon in the same stream.

529
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 3: Happens everywhere in the West. Let's say upstream you have

530
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 3: a Forest Service holding a National forest and downstream you

531
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 3: have a dam. I've just described every watershed in the West.

532
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 3: So this is how we manage it. So the trout

533
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 3: are managed by Department of Interior through US Fish and

534
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 3: Wildlife Service. The salmon are managed by Department of Commerce

535
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 3: through NOAH. The National forest surface is managed by Department

536
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 3: of Agriculture through US Forest Service subsurfaces Department of Interior

537
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 3: through Bureau of Land Management. Our dam system downstream that

538
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 3: directs the flow, the temperature. It's either the Department of

539
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 3: Army through the Army Corps of Engineers like Libby or

540
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 3: its Department of Interior through Bureau of Reclamation like the

541
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,479
Speaker 3: Dam and Hungry Horse. Even though they're almost you almost

542
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,239
Speaker 3: can see each other. So let's say you want to

543
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 3: put a redo a bridge, or put a pipeline in

544
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 3: or a dock system, you literally have to go through

545
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 3: multiple departments with different agencies, with oftentimes conflicting regulation in

546
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 3: one hundred and sixty three different regions. Even the regions

547
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 3: don't line up. The regions from Bureau of Reclamation is

548
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 3: not the same region as Department or Bureau of any affairs.

549
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 3: They're not even geographically the same. So it's not exactly

550
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,239
Speaker 3: you know, putting more resources in is reorganizing it so

551
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 3: you can make better decisions. So you don't have seven

552
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 3: different biologists from seven different agencies on the same acre

553
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 3: of ground the same section of river giving different views

554
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 3: and a conclusion that that either doesn't move forward or

555
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 3: it it's not a consensus. And thus we were stuck

556
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 3: in the mud and we don't get things done. Decisions.

557
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 3: We have the we have the technology on decisions to

558
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 3: make a decision yes or no within a reasonable amount

559
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 3: of time. But because just the organization of it and

560
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 3: how we're set up. A lot of these decisions wait

561
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 3: and wait and wait and wait and wait. If you're

562
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 3: if you're trying to you know, extract a resource, there's

563
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 3: a lot of fra frustration on that side. You're trying

564
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 3: to protect the resource, there's a lot of frustration on

565
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 3: that side too, So we can do it better.

566
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: Uh, let's jump to one that's heating up right now.

567
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: A lot of conversations about the roleless rule. I hate

568
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: to see the like, not hate to I really don't

569
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: want to see the Roless rule thrown out. Uh, just

570
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: I want to hear but people know what I think

571
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: from your perspective, right, from from your perspective, like, like,

572
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: aren't there some fixes and some adjustments that could be

573
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: made to alleviate.

574
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 2: Some of the concerns?

575
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: Yes, like without like again, I don't want to lecture

576
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: people on what I think about the Roles rule.

577
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 2: I think like the Roles Rule does a great job

578
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 2: of protecting those last bastions of undeveloped landscapes.

579
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: But again, you know, in your role here, you are,

580
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: you have a lot of constituents. You're answering to a

581
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: lot of you know, a lot of people with a

582
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: lot of concerns. I would love to see that there

583
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: was a way to more surgically address concerns as they

584
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: come up, rather than just saying like to hell with it,

585
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: which I feel like we're sinding the role this rules

586
00:33:58,040 --> 00:33:59,719
Speaker 1: a little bit like to hell with y'all.

587
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and all right, when one is, I'll hand over

588
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 3: to you. When the roadless road rule was put in,

589
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 3: there wasn't any public comment on that one either. That

590
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 3: was that was President Clinton, we're gonna do the roadless rule.

591
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 3: I don't remember any public comment, So I think there's

592
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 3: public coming on the way out. I think, you know

593
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 3: a blanket. We're just gonna undo every roadless and make

594
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 3: them roadless again, make them roads. I think that is

595
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 3: not best science, it's not best practices, it's not based

596
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 3: on longest term, greatest good. I think there's there's no

597
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 3: doubt some roads that probably should be opened up that

598
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 3: provide access. Remember, not everyone is in great shape. There's

599
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 3: a lot of older folks that they don't walk so

600
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 3: well that maybe would like to drive. There's a snowmobile

601
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 3: out there. They don't.

602
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: There's a lot of promise you I was gonna stop

603
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: talking about it. But I don't picture running out of

604
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 1: roads like I'm not I'm not a there's like, there's

605
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: no such thing as a road preservation is because there's

606
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 1: always going to be a bunch.

607
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 3: Of those well all right, and uh and and let's

608
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 3: say northwest Montana, there's a lot of existing roads that

609
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 3: when they shut the roads down they probably should have

610
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 3: been opened up. They went they went too far, and

611
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 3: then and over a period of time, if roads overgrow

612
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 3: and then you do have a fire, you're putting a

613
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 3: lot of firefighters in danger because you've got to have

614
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 3: you gotta have access for machinery and stuff like that.

615
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 3: But again, the right step I think is and they's

616
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 3: we're going to do all this or all this. I

617
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 3: think there's a logical you know midway that's that's evaluate

618
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 3: the road system, that's evaluate we should have open up

619
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 3: you know, public access because public access is important. Uh.

620
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 3: And public access isn't always you know, two feet. I

621
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 3: can tell you there's a lot of veterans that would

622
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 3: wish they had two legs that can't walk very far.

623
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 3: There's a lot of older folks that don't have the

624
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 3: ability to walk that far. But you know that they

625
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 3: used to, uh and so I think you can manage it,

626
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 3: you know, well, but this, you know, one side or

627
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 3: the other, I think leads to you know, tension. So

628
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,240
Speaker 3: I do think it's important to look at public access

629
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 3: and evaluate fairly. Look at our roads when when they

630
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 3: were made roadless, there was no comment when when when

631
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 3: if the rule is overturned based on coming what roads

632
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 3: are you going to overturn? I think that's a legitimate discussion.

633
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 3: I think we should have these discussions about where and

634
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 3: why and what purpose. Not every place, you know, some

635
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 3: places have other alternative access points, uh and and a

636
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 3: lot of places of you know, the road probably shouldn't

637
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 3: have been in there in the beginning. So I do

638
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 3: think you got to carefully look at things, and that's

639
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 3: you know, some of these discussions. You know, it isn't

640
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 3: it isn't clear where I have to have it one

641
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 3: way or other. Do I have to have you know,

642
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 3: zero people in it or or zero machinery in the wilderness. Well,

643
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 3: it depends on what the machinery does. If it's scientific

644
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 3: instrumentation on the side of a cauldron in Hawaii, so

645
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 3: you can evaluate the subsurface channels of lava penetrating and threatening,

646
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 3: you know, human life. I think that's a fair the

647
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 3: put put that thing if you if you don't like

648
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 3: to looking at it, then make it look like a rock.

649
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:34,720
Speaker 2: Listen.

650
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 1: I I man, I understand those areas, like those examples

651
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 1: of things that happen where it winds up being it

652
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: almost becomes like a uh those areas where like some

653
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: level of absurdity is demonstrated.

654
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 2: It drives a lot of frustration, you know what I mean.

655
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: It drives like in places that where like the one

656
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: I brought up, where you know, there's almost an irony

657
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: to it, like someone trying to preserve a strain of

658
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: cutthroat trout being hindered in their activities because of the

659
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: roadless rules, so like, and then you're trying to preserve

660
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: the integrity, like you're trying to work on behalf of

661
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: the integrity of the very thing that's preventing you from

662
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: working on the integrity or whatever I'm trying to say.

663
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 2: And I get all, I get those.

664
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 3: And then you have a fire, right, they have a

665
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 3: massive fire, and you have so much settlement that the

666
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 3: trout you're trying to protect are gone. Yeah, and and

667
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 3: and those are those are are real cases. So I

668
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 3: think judgment matters and have a little latitude for the

669
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 3: commander to make a decision based on ground truth, situation

670
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 3: and train dictate. So on the roadless rule, I think

671
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 3: it should be looked at, evaluated, a public couplic public comment. Uh,

672
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 3: there's no doubt that's that. There are some places that

673
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 3: the roads network should be replaced, probably repaired. So if

674
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 3: you need to get in there with fire truck equipment,

675
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 3: a can so you can evaluate it and enjoy your

676
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 3: public landca it's jewrs snowmobiles, you know across Montana. I've

677
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 3: never seen a problem or damage from a snowmobil during

678
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,439
Speaker 3: the summer. I like a lot unless a snowbill hits

679
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 3: a tree, doesn't do a lot of damage out there.

680
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 3: And the four strokes are are are pretty quiet and

681
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,839
Speaker 3: quite frankly, the game if if they're up that high,

682
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 3: where the snowpacks that high, the game is not there.

683
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 3: So as you know, you hunt and.

684
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 2: I have a couple of snowbills.

685
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 3: You do.

686
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: Wild and scenic river work, so you recently I'm a

687
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: little lost awhare like how the process plays out, but

688
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: proposing wild and scenic status for stretches on the Gallatin

689
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: and Madison.

690
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: What does that do? Like, what give me your thinking

691
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 2: on that? Like? What does that do? Is it? Is

692
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 2: it a symbolic gesture like.

693
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:56,240
Speaker 3: You know, all right, and it's looking at the gallat

694
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 3: and you know, and and and and those basins in

695
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 3: the matter. One is that when you when you put

696
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 3: protection on rivers, so you're you're set back, making sure

697
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 3: the flow doesn't get doesn't remains, et cetera. In the

698
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 3: In the case of the River Act, it started at

699
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 3: the county level. They first came to my office in DC,

700
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 3: the group behind it, and said, Oh, I got this

701
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 3: great plan. We're going to do all these rivers, thousands

702
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 3: of miles of rivers, is gonna put them on protection.

703
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 3: And said, well, what do the counties think about it? Oh,

704
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 3: we hadn't talked to the county commissioners.

705
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 2: Ah, well, going right to the big dog.

706
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 3: You know what, uh, you know, I'm a congressman, former

707
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 3: former you know, secretary. I go to the county commissioners

708
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 3: because the county commissioners of the front line, you know,

709
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 3: their their sheriff is voted in, the county commissioners are

710
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 3: voted in. There the front line and if you want

711
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 3: my support, you got to go to the county commissioners

712
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 3: and get their support too. And they did, you know,

713
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 3: good on them. They went in, they worked it, They

714
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 3: got county commissions. They they adjusted the scope where you

715
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 3: had all sides. You had the government side, you know

716
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 3: with me, and you had the county commissioners, and you

717
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 3: had the local the local enthusiastic groups. You know there

718
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 3: there are a lot of them that all got together

719
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 3: and said this is the right plan. And then because

720
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,919
Speaker 3: I'm a representative and I represent people and I'm glad

721
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 3: to do it, is if everyone agrees you know what,

722
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,720
Speaker 3: we'll go forward. Because I also think it's important enough

723
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 3: to make sure that your kids had the same experience

724
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 3: on the Madison and the Gallaton as you did. The

725
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 3: reason why we live in Montana is because the Gallaton

726
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 3: isn't the Sacramento River. That we understand how important it

727
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 3: is on flows and temperature and species in riparian banks

728
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 3: and all that, you know, should be and looked at

729
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 3: as part of Montana our legacy that we're going to

730
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 3: also be behind for the next generation. So I'm glad

731
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 3: to do it. The process is, it starts in the

732
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 3: House we'll get a committee hearing on it. It's not

733
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 3: a contentious issue because I think we did it right.

734
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 3: We went at the front line and it's uh, you know,

735
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 3: frontline driven, and then I'm sure that Senator you know,

736
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,359
Speaker 3: she and Danes, well we'll pick it up on that side.

737
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 3: So I'm actually fairly optimistic that the scope is right

738
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 3: and you had a consensus on it, and it protects

739
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 3: you know, two beautiful rivers and I think that you

740
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 3: and I spend a lot of time on rightfully so

741
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 3: because they are gorgeous rivers, and I just want to

742
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,400
Speaker 3: make sure that again your kids and your grandchildren can

743
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 3: have the same experience.

744
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 2: What's the timeline on something like that look like that, Well, we're.

745
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 3: In government shutdown right now, so I'm sure not not

746
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 3: not much as moving at the at the moment, but

747
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 3: I'm pretty optimist that it'll move forward. You things take time, Uh,

748
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 3: good things take take more time. But you know, I

749
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 3: think I think we're on a good role because we

750
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 3: did it right.

751
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:59,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, on right right, meaning that that procedure

752
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: high that local commission.

753
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 3: You know, people in Utah got really upset when monuments

754
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 3: were put in place that they had no say. Matter

755
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 3: of fact, not only did they not have a say,

756
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 3: they had just the opposite. They were stoniestly against it.

757
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 3: Both the State House, the State Senate, and the representation

758
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 3: all were against that, and yet happened. And you've gotta

759
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 3: you gotta, you gotta be sensitive the state's rights, even

760
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 3: though it's federal property and and monuments. For everyone's listening,

761
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 3: you know, the president's authority to designated monument. Teddy Roosevelt

762
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 3: really pushed it. And it's called the Antiquities Act, and

763
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 3: it's delightfully short. It's it's only about a page and

764
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 3: as four conditions. One, you have to have an object

765
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 3: to protect that object by by law, by definition is

766
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 3: sign as historic, prehistoric, you know, or geologic. Example, historic

767
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 3: would be Battleground geologic, the Devil's Tower, which, by the way,

768
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 3: that's what I was gonna throw out that that's the

769
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 3: first monument. Like Teddy Roseil, I visited that place amazing.

770
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 1: And secondly, it's very understandable when you look at it,

771
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, I know where you're going. You're like

772
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: where it's like that thing?

773
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 2: Yeah.

774
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 3: Well, and you know, the monument at the time was

775
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 3: twelve hundred acres, so there's a pushback is a landgrap

776
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 3: but again you have to have something something that to preserve.

777
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 3: And secondly, it has to be on federal land. You

778
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 3: can't designate a monument on state or private land. It

779
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 3: has to be federal. So some of the recent designations

780
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 3: and monuments also were on state and private land, which

781
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 3: is illegal and I think also important.

782
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: Well because they were those places were encompassed within the encompassed.

783
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 3: But what happens is you start restricting access. You you

784
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 3: start changing prescription on grazing, on time, and so you

785
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 3: put a lot of pressure on either the state for

786
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 3: income because a lot of state properties like Montana best

787
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 3: and highest use the schools, generate income from the property.

788
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 3: Or as your private land rights, you do have some

789
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 3: right to the enjoyment of your property, and when that's

790
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 3: diminished because of a government either it's a action, then

791
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 3: that's a taking. But it lastly, is smallest area compatible

792
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 3: to protection of the object, and that's important. For instance,

793
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 3: if you're going to designate a battlefield a monument, then

794
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 3: it would be logical and the extent of that battlefield

795
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 3: would be where the battle took place or very close by.

796
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 3: It's not in the case of Bear's Ears, which was

797
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 3: a famous one. It's not fifteen hundred square miles. Then

798
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 3: you go, well, fifteen hundred square miles, and for listeners

799
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 3: that remember Bearsiers, it.

800
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 2: Was, oh, this is quite a toll.

801
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 3: So President Clinton went in and he designated Bearziers. I

802
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 3: didn't see the property, but Bearziers was about fifteen hundred

803
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 3: square miles of which eight hundred thousand acres was wilderness.

804
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 3: Now tell me in a wilderness what protections in the wilderness?

805
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 3: You don't have none. And then there was an entirety

806
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 3: of a national forest in there that had no monuments.

807
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 3: I mean it had no areas of known existence of

808
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,720
Speaker 3: anything historical, no Indian artifacts, no dwellings. What it was

809
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 3: was there could be, there could be.

810
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 2: What is that?

811
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,879
Speaker 3: So you can't designate the monument of what could be?

812
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 3: And it's small or sty compatible. So when I did

813
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 3: a review with the state of Utah and with the

814
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 3: governor and locals, I I looked at it and I

815
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 3: made the recommend recommendation. Then President Trump is that on

816
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 3: the eight hundred thousands of wilderness, return it back to wilderness.

817
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 3: It has all the protection it needs. On the national forest.

818
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 3: Return it to National Forest the rest of it a

819
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 3: reasonable boundary. Uh. And the boundary that I recommended was

820
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 3: larger than Bryce Canyon and Zion Park combined. And still

821
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 3: there was there was pushback from it. But at the

822
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:35,879
Speaker 3: end of the day, it was the right decision. You've

823
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 3: got to follow the law on monuments.

824
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 4: Same thing with but you got you got absolutists like

825
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 4: you got absolutes like like like like, I'm kind of well,

826
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 4: you got absolutists like me who would look, would look

827
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 4: and be like, maybe.

828
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 2: Uh, I'm gonna I'm gonna.

829
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,399
Speaker 1: Admit like a certain level of manipulation here where you'd

830
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: look and you'd be like, I I.

831
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 2: Like the the goal. I like the goal of preserving

832
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 2: untouched landscape.

833
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: And and if this is how we got to get there,

834
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: then this is how we got to get there. And

835
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 1: I understand that that winds up, you know, being something

836
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 1: that's that's legally exposed, and it's an approach that's legally vulnerable,

837
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: as we see with a lot of these ping pong

838
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 1: issues that aren't acts of Congress.

839
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:33,359
Speaker 3: Well, and it's interesting the Bears Ears. You have two

840
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 3: sections of the Great Navo Nation, the Navajo Nation in

841
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 3: Utah was against the monument, primarily because they didn't want notoriety.

842
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 3: They do a lot of ceremonial, you know, events on

843
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 3: that land, and they were staunchly against the monument. They

844
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 3: Navajos and Arizona, where you just had the oposite of you.

845
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 3: They wanted the monument, and they they viewed the monument

846
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 3: as a step towards a national park, or they viewed

847
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 3: the monument as a step towards a reconciliation of a

848
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 3: land return, and so that was kind of their their view.

849
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 3: At the end of the day, I viewed it in

850
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 3: the terms of what was written in the law as that, yes,

851
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 3: there is app there's ZOONI, there's a there's a lot

852
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 3: of historical and geological features that I think they would qualify.

853
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 3: I wasn't President Obama, so I gave President Obama deference.

854
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 3: I wasn't President he was, so he decided that he

855
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 3: would sign it, and so I gave deference of it

856
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 3: within the law. But again, the boundaries that I proposed

857
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 3: is still in litigation, by the way, were larger than

858
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 3: Zion and Bryce Canyon combined. There's not one inch, by

859
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 3: the way, that left the federal state, not one inch

860
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 3: of land left the federal state is how it was

861
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 3: designated in for what use and when. But that's an example.

862
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 3: I think you're rightfully brought it up. There's there's people

863
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 3: that will give no quarter on either side because either

864
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,320
Speaker 3: they think it's a slippery slope or the government doesn't

865
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 3: have the right or states rights. There's a lot of

866
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 3: people that are lined up that that get angry when't

867
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 3: you even have a discussion about it. And you know

868
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 3: this leads to the largest thing is we need to

869
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 3: get the anger out of the discussion. It's the distraction

870
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 3: of getting things done. And and look at what's what's

871
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 3: the purpose? The purpose is to maintain and preserve and

872
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 3: protect our outdoor legacy, to improve public access where we can,

873
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 3: and to manage our forests and our wildlife, to make

874
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 3: sure that the herds are are healthy into the future

875
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 3: and our force remain the same. Uh. You know that's

876
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 3: that's the goal, right and and and and how do

877
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 3: you reach the goal? Well, you work together to do it.

878
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 3: You you look at that at threats and there are you

879
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 3: identify what's the source of the threat. Why do people

880
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:06,919
Speaker 3: want to sell land?

881
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 2: Why?

882
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 3: Why why are people so angry? Is it because of

883
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,760
Speaker 3: housing costs, well, housing costs are high. But and housing

884
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 3: it's say you have a million dollar home, which impostman. Yeah,

885
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 3: it's hard to believe it. There's hardly any home that's

886
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 3: not a million dollars.

887
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 1: But yeah, look at a million homes someone coming from

888
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,439
Speaker 1: So I'm not I'm not like picking on or I'm

889
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: just pulling the state out of you know, thin air,

890
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 1: like someone coming from Missouri. And if you said, hey,

891
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,840
Speaker 1: point out a million dollar homes, well they're not going

892
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:39,280
Speaker 1: to be pointing out a million dollars.

893
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and even Missouri, you know, so fort of a

894
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:48,280
Speaker 3: cost of a home is permitting, and and permitting includes

895
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 3: curbs and sewer and water. Right, then you have construction costs.

896
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 3: Materials are not coming down, you're then you have to

897
00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 3: have some profit. Uh. And then you have land costs.

898
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,800
Speaker 3: Of that group, land costs generally and oftentimes are are

899
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 3: the least the least expensive part. And again we talked

900
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,760
Speaker 3: about if it's public housing we want, that's tens of acres,

901
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 3: it's not. It's not hundreds or hundreds of thousands of acres. Right,

902
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:23,879
Speaker 3: And if the purpose is to provide housing, then then yeah,

903
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 3: but if you don't have infrastructure. Then building a house

904
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 3: in the middle of the dirt farm without without water

905
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 3: and sewer, it's not going to get very far. So

906
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 3: you have to, you know, look at it and evaluate.

907
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 3: You know, what's the purpose again. You know, if you

908
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 3: sell land public land. Once you sold, it's gone, you're

909
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 3: not going to get it back. George Will said that

910
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 3: you're not making any more land. So I think again again,

911
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,240
Speaker 3: the point is, I think you look at things, evaluate

912
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 3: highest and best use, and go back to the American

913
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 3: conservation ethic that gid us to this point of why

914
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 3: we have the federal state we do.

915
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 1: I want to move to one where I believe you

916
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:14,800
Speaker 1: and I are in perfect agreement.

917
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 3: That's scary.

918
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: Grizzly bear delisting absolutely, and why it fits in with

919
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 1: some of the theme of what we're talking about for listeners.

920
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:32,720
Speaker 1: Grizzly bears were listed for Endangered Species Act protection very.

921
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 2: Early on in the Act.

922
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:40,720
Speaker 1: When they were listed, we, I mean, the American people,

923
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: all the system agreed on what recovery would look like.

924
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:45,879
Speaker 2: They put numbers to it.

925
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:52,319
Speaker 1: Grizzly bears reached that agreed upon recovery threshold.

926
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 2: Thirty years ago. I'm a little bit lost in time twenty.

927
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 1: Five years ago, thirty years ago, they they hit the

928
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 1: numbers that everyone agreed would be recovery. A thing about

929
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,240
Speaker 1: the Endangered Species Act. I think that only two percent

930
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 1: of the things that go on the Endangered Species Act

931
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:15,839
Speaker 1: come off because they recovered. Things might come off because

932
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,360
Speaker 1: we realized they were extinct. Things might come off because

933
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 1: we realized that they weren't actually warranted in the first place.

934
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 1: But rarely does an animal just rarely do we recover

935
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 1: an animal. We did with peregrine falcons, we did with

936
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 1: bald eagles. When we when bald eagles hit recovery, it

937
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 1: was a big celebration. They were removed from the Endangered

938
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 1: Species Act protection. But somehow with grizzlies we hit recovery

939
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: and they won't delist them, and and and speaking to

940
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: the frustrations, is it winds up making a mockery of

941
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,800
Speaker 1: the Endangered Species Act, and it turns the Endangered Species

942
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 1: Act into a thing where people hear it and they

943
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: reflexively go oh brother, yeah, Like it breeds the frustration

944
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 1: because you're like, we set up, we set up plan,

945
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 1: we achieved the plan, and then someone says, nope, I'm

946
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 1: moving the goalpost because I don't want to live in

947
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: a world where someone might do something bad to a

948
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: grizzly bear.

949
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,360
Speaker 2: So I no longer care about what the Act intended.

950
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:26,320
Speaker 2: I just cared about using it as a legal weapon

951
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 2: to protect my own personal interests.

952
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,320
Speaker 3: Well and in Danger Species Act, by the way, Dick Nixon,

953
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 3: people forget about that. Yeah, Dick Nixon and uh in space,

954
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 3: in Danger Species Act, Clean and Clean Air Act, Clean

955
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:41,839
Speaker 3: Water Act. It was all Dick nixonble No, he had

956
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:45,799
Speaker 3: Democratic Congress. But you know Dick Nixon, all right, he's

957
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 3: a He's the one that signed it.

958
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 1: I had someone there to explain to me that he

959
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:51,720
Speaker 1: didn't actually care about any of that stuff, and I didn't.

960
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 2: I didn't look into it.

961
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 3: He signed it. But you know, on two points. One

962
00:55:56,680 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 3: is is when is you rightfully point out the Endangered

963
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 3: Species Act, the solid idea about it is absolutely essential

964
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 3: to protecting species and make sure we leave a legacy.

965
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 3: But it can be abused, and when it is abused,

966
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 3: that creates anger and frustration.

967
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 2: And people just want to be done with the But.

968
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 3: It spills out into other species, right because if they

969
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 3: if they see the grizzly bear, which has recovered. I mean,

970
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,279
Speaker 3: if you go to Wilvando, every outbuilding has you know,

971
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 3: hot wire on it. They had had a tourist camping

972
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 3: right next to the restaurant and got mauled killed.

973
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 2: You see it.

974
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 3: You know you can't go out there in a bike

975
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 3: anymore with a b begun. We have too many grizzlies.

976
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 3: There's the right number of grizzlies. Let's go by science

977
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 3: and manage the grizzly. And then there's then they have

978
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 3: somehow concocted. Now there's three separate species of grizzlies. There's

979
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:59,839
Speaker 3: the Continental. The Continental, there is the Greater Yellowstone, and

980
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 3: there the Yak, and each of those are different. The

981
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 3: study was completed on the Greater Yellowstone that population has recovered.

982
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 3: When I was Secretary, I led the effort, took it

983
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 3: off the list, and then was put on back on

984
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 3: the list when I left the Continental. That study has

985
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 3: recently been completed that species are recovered, and those are

986
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 3: the ones that are in Levando in the Northwest, and

987
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 3: the Yak there was never endangered because the way the

988
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 3: Endangered Species Act is, you only count the ones that

989
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 3: are in North America, only count the ones that are

990
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 3: in the United States. We don't, we're blind. The ones

991
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 3: that are in in Canada, well, this the northern or

992
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 3: the Yak grizzly Only a small section of their habitat

993
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 3: is actually in the US. Most of the habitat is north.

994
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 3: But all of a sudden, if if the numbers in

995
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 3: the in the South, the smaller, you know, the smaller

996
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 3: section where they live, if that numbers can't prommegate the

997
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 3: entire species, then they remain in the list. And it's

998
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 3: nuts with.

999
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 2: No acknowledgement of the habitats.

1000
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 3: With no acknowledgement, and you got and if you've been

1001
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 3: up there, the forests are dead. They have the canopy.

1002
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 3: Everything below the canopy is dead because the tree density

1003
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 3: is too great. They're dead and dying trees. There is

1004
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 3: no grasses. Grizzly bears don't eat grass, and underlets do.

1005
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 3: But if less there's grass, you know, there's nothing to

1006
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 3: feed on. Pretty you know, pretty much they're having the

1007
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 3: transit hundreds of miles for food. Uh and their food

1008
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 3: oftentimes in the Northwest, and Libby happens to be a

1009
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 3: garbage can because garbage cans are available because there's food.

1010
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 3: There's no food out there, but you know, it's a

1011
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 3: management issue, and we should celebrate that the species has recovered.

1012
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 3: I mean we we all should do a barn dance

1013
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 3: and celebrate and then go, all right, these are the

1014
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 3: numbers we're gonna We're gonna monitor that species very closely.

1015
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 3: It's just off the list. This is the numbers that

1016
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 3: we're going to target it to and manage. Just like

1017
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 3: we manage elk herds, we manage cattle, we manage things.

1018
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 3: The only thing, the only two things we seem not

1019
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 3: to manage are grizzly bears and wild horses and burroughs. Yeah,

1020
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 3: and both of them become dude.

1021
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 1: I don't even put that on our list. But that's

1022
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 1: another one. But we'll not we can avoid that one.

1023
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 1: But let's stand grizzlies for a minute, because what like

1024
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 1: one of the things like being an optimist, you know,

1025
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 1: try to be an optimist.

1026
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 3: I look, I'm an optimist.

1027
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 2: We should be well, I.

1028
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: Look, and I'm like, you got republican you know, you

1029
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: got a republican government Montana.

1030
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 2: You got a republican governor Idaho. You get a republican

1031
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 2: government Wyoming.

1032
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 1: We have a Republican delegation, We have a Republican in

1033
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 1: the White House. I'm like, perhaps in the next four

1034
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: years would be great. It seems like everything's really aligned

1035
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 1: to delist the Grizzly Bears and hand them back to

1036
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 1: state management.

1037
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 2: Is that enough timers is just too legally complicated.

1038
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 3: No, I I think we should in can we have

1039
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 3: a little problem with a couple of judges.

1040
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 1: Like it's like a person a person a person in Missia,

1041
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 1: person in Mozilla.

1042
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 3: He's from Malta.

1043
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 2: I know, but it's like it's like a god. It's

1044
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 2: like a godlike position.

1045
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, every time it's always moved the bar. But I look,

1046
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 3: you know, you don't you don't give up. It's the

1047
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 3: right thing to do because the numbers in the science

1048
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 3: behind it is that it's truthful. So I do think

1049
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 3: and it's not you know, republic and Democrats not really

1050
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 3: quite frankly, the way I see the world, you know,

1051
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 3: I'm kind of red, white and black.

1052
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 2: I know.

1053
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is what I'm saying is, uh,

1054
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 1: the power, the power.

1055
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 3: Should align to get things done when we don't need to.

1056
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 1: Like without fully understood like what And I know everybody

1057
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 1: has their own priority about just saying when I looked

1058
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 1: at it, I'm like, that would be a great outcome here.

1059
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 1: You know, there's other things I care about that will

1060
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 1: be compromised, but would love to see this come through.

1061
01:00:55,880 --> 01:01:00,479
Speaker 1: But it's like you gotta you moved, like you move

1062
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 1: to D list, like the US Fishwaliley Service moves to

1063
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:03,920
Speaker 1: D list.

1064
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 2: Then they make a plan, but then it just gets

1065
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 2: it just gets litigated.

1066
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, And I would say that's part of the

1067
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 3: issue is Congress has to do our job to make

1068
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 3: sure that there is an off ramp based on science

1069
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 3: on the Endangered Species Act. But when it's abused, it

1070
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 3: creates anger on both sides. One is that you are

1071
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 3: thinking about taking an animal off the list, so I'm

1072
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 3: angry about that, and you're not taking the animal off

1073
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 3: off the list because it's recovered. I'm angry about that.

1074
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 3: So I think it's always better look at what's the goal.

1075
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 3: The goal is independent of opinion. The goal is to

1076
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 3: have a healthy number of species, but make sure the

1077
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 3: species that was identified, once it meets that objective, then

1078
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 3: it's off the list. Congress has to do our job

1079
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 3: to make sure that once those numbers have been verified,

1080
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 3: that in fact gets off the list, and doesn't get

1081
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 3: litigated for another series of discovery. Oh what about the

1082
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 3: relationship between the monarch butterfly and the grizzly? Have you

1083
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 3: looked at that? Yeah, No, I haven't looked at it.

1084
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 2: That's that's always the play.

1085
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 3: The play.

1086
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: The play is not to question how many bears are

1087
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 1: out there. The play is the goal, like but did

1088
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 1: you consider this?

1089
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 3: But but did you discovery?

1090
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 1: It's never like, hey, there's not actually enough of them.

1091
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: It's always like some it's like a technicality.

1092
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 3: And and you know, we also reward lawsuits because they

1093
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 3: you if you bring a loaf lawsuit forward, you have

1094
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 3: eleven tenants of that of that lawsuit, and you lose

1095
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 3: on ten of them. But when a minor one, you're

1096
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 3: still going to get fully funded. So you're you're our taxpayers,

1097
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:54,840
Speaker 3: you'll pay for this nonsense. Enough's enough, We're thirty six

1098
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 3: trillion dollars in debt. I can spend. I can see

1099
01:02:56,840 --> 01:03:01,120
Speaker 3: a lot better expense of taxpayer dollars. Then to defend

1100
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 3: a species that by all numbers and by science has

1101
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 3: recovered enough enough, but Congress has to adjust it to

1102
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:13,840
Speaker 3: make sure that the abuse is stopped.

1103
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 1: So if you crystal balled it like, when will that happen?

1104
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:20,640
Speaker 1: I mean, we eventually got there on wolves, right, it

1105
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:22,320
Speaker 1: took a long time. We got there on wolves, at

1106
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 1: least in the northern Rockies. The northern Great Lakes are

1107
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: still dealing with the.

1108
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 3: Problem, and in Colorado is just being introduced to the

1109
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 3: problem and they're not very happy about it.

1110
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 1: But what are the odds or not, however you want

1111
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 1: to put it, like, what are the chances that we

1112
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 1: would see grizzly dlisting in the next handful of years?

1113
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 3: Well, you know, you have influence.

1114
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 2: I've been talking about this since I was.

1115
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 3: But look, you don't. You don't give up. That's you

1116
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 3: never quit, uh, you know, with with with Danes and

1117
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 3: she he and Montana before of us, you know, I yeah,

1118
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:02,560
Speaker 3: it's certainly if priority. I think probably the number one

1119
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:07,920
Speaker 3: priority is is peace. But after peace, you know, the environment.

1120
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 3: You know, I'm an optimist. It can get done. I

1121
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 3: think Berghum understands the importance of it. And you know,

1122
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 3: if you're in New York or Florida, you know, grizzly

1123
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:21,080
Speaker 3: bears probably aren't at the top.

1124
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 2: Of your list. But look, we what black bears are?

1125
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 3: Black bears? You know, think of a bigger black bear,

1126
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 3: a lot bigger. But you know this is where you know,

1127
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 3: the four of us we get along well. We talk

1128
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 3: at least once, if not twice a week, and I'm

1129
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:46,560
Speaker 3: pretty confident we'll see the Greater Yellowstone Grizzly go off

1130
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 3: the list. I think it won't be too long before

1131
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 3: the Continental and the Yak. We're gonna have to change

1132
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 3: the laws so we can we can. You know, it's

1133
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:00,800
Speaker 3: ridiculous if you if you have again, if your if

1134
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 3: your habitat is just a small area, but but but

1135
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 3: absentte boundaries. If the proponers the bears live up up

1136
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 3: in Canada, then there should be some formula to have

1137
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 3: some compensation for those bearris. A lot of them are

1138
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 3: coming from Canada and coming down, eating and returning.

1139
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 1: I'm trying to resist the urge to give listeners my

1140
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 1: standard thirty minute explanation of distinct population segments. But when

1141
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 1: we're one, uh, when when one Congress from Zinkie talking

1142
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: about the Northern Continal Divide the Greater Yellstone. Basically, it's

1143
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:41,640
Speaker 1: a it's a geographical sort of system by which we

1144
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 1: point out areas that could potentially even have grizzlies or

1145
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:48,160
Speaker 1: that have suitable habitat. So instead of talking about grizzlies

1146
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 1: in Golden Golden Gate Park, where there were grizzlies once

1147
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 1: upon a time, we're talking about the places where there's

1148
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:58,920
Speaker 1: suitable habitat and the potential for a population that.

1149
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then they go, well, it's just a subspecies.

1150
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 3: Is a greater Yellowstone so much different than the continental

1151
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 3: in the act, The answer is no. And then if

1152
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:13,320
Speaker 3: you got to go to another subspecies, there's a subspecies.

1153
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 3: If you go further out Montana, there's a cornfield out

1154
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 3: by Chester that the grizzly bears have gone all the

1155
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 3: way out. The chest corn.

1156
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 2: Corn that sit in that cornfield, you know, more or

1157
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:28,640
Speaker 2: less all fall.

1158
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 3: Now, that could be a subspecies too. It's it's the

1159
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 3: it's the corn grizzly. Of course I'm being facetious.

1160
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:37,400
Speaker 1: But no, I understand there is there is a tool.

1161
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 1: There's an environmental tool that gets used where if someone

1162
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:46,200
Speaker 1: you know, you might point out like, hey, we're this

1163
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 1: species is imperiled, and and people will say, well, it's

1164
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 1: not because they're all over the place. And then what

1165
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: you do is your place, you say, well, this one's

1166
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:58,200
Speaker 1: a little different well, and you know, and it's like

1167
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 1: there's like splitters and lumpers into if.

1168
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:04,880
Speaker 3: You're worried about d n A, then they're doing transplanting,

1169
01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 3: you know, programs, and then they'll they'll grab a bear

1170
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 3: from one area and send another bear. If if you

1171
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:12,960
Speaker 3: if you're worried about the gene pool is beginning, you know,

1172
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:17,320
Speaker 3: so reduced, yeah, and yeah, et cetera. But it goes

1173
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 3: back to science. But I'm an optimist on on that

1174
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 3: and then danger species. You need sixty votes in the Senate.

1175
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 3: That's one of the hurdles. So it has to be bipartisan,

1176
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 3: and I think a vehicle for that is we should

1177
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 3: have the discussion in the public Lands Caucus. That's very

1178
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 3: very bipartison and very full spectrum by the way of

1179
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 3: political tone, from the ultra conservative to the l ultraliberal.

1180
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 3: But the common thread, uh is public lands and and

1181
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 3: there and both sides are deeply passionate about public lands.

1182
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 3: The management is a little different in the perspective of

1183
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 3: how to manage it, but they're passion That's a great start.

1184
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 3: At least people are passionate about about about the team.

1185
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 3: A lot of people are passionate about you know, the

1186
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 3: Bobcats and until the Grizzly Bobcat game.

1187
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you something I don't want

1188
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:22,599
Speaker 1: you to take personally. You and I don't agree on everything,

1189
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:24,679
Speaker 1: but I don't agree with my wife on everything.

1190
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:27,800
Speaker 2: Well, so you're you're in her company. Yeah, I gave

1191
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 2: you a hit.

1192
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 3: You know, I don't agree with myself all the time.

1193
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 3: Ask my wife. So but but you know, but again,

1194
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:37,559
Speaker 3: it helps if a person has passion, right, and it

1195
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:38,759
Speaker 3: also helps to listen.

1196
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 1: Well, that's that's kind of what I wanted to end on.

1197
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:46,439
Speaker 1: Here is a thing that I've appreciated being uh, you know,

1198
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 1: one one of your constituents. The thing I've appreciated about

1199
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:56,360
Speaker 1: you is you have a you cultivate intentionally or naturally.

1200
01:08:56,920 --> 01:09:04,240
Speaker 1: You cultivate a tonal that implies compromise, that implies giving

1201
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:07,679
Speaker 1: people the benefit of the doubt, that implies like, let's

1202
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:10,920
Speaker 1: hear all the ideas made the best idea win. You

1203
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:13,320
Speaker 1: point out, you know, talking what we're talking about red

1204
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:16,599
Speaker 1: and blue. You point out being red, white and blue. Right,

1205
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 1: you talk about taking the heat down. Like, dude, this

1206
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 1: is stuff that that I love to hear. I haven't

1207
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 1: read the article yet. I saw a thing this morning

1208
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:32,599
Speaker 1: that most it was a poll. I didn't read ain

1209
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:34,519
Speaker 1: the details of the poll. Who did the poll, I

1210
01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:37,760
Speaker 1: don't know, but just said in a poll, most Americans

1211
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:41,400
Speaker 1: think that the divisions in this country cannot be resolved.

1212
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:47,679
Speaker 1: Which is just sickening to hear that. What's your take?

1213
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:50,640
Speaker 1: I mean, you go, you go, you go out of

1214
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:52,840
Speaker 1: your way to like you said, you go audio way

1215
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 1: to take the heat down, and you go audio way

1216
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 1: to like be a gentleman and to point out this

1217
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 1: is America. Let's figure things out, like like are you

1218
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 1: gonna how do you keep that up well?

1219
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 3: And and how do you how do you get the

1220
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:10,400
Speaker 3: tone and the anger out of it? Right? I guess

1221
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:15,400
Speaker 3: leadership leadership at every level. Uh, the school teachers should

1222
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 3: be talking about looking tone. You know. That's that's celebrate

1223
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:23,639
Speaker 3: our diversity of thought. That celebrate critical thinking, and that's

1224
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:28,879
Speaker 3: that celebrate the solution minded people. Uh. That that celebrate

1225
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:30,760
Speaker 3: our ability as a as a as a great nation

1226
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:33,920
Speaker 3: to get things done. But it has I think it

1227
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:37,040
Speaker 3: has to happen both from the top, uh, and and

1228
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:39,800
Speaker 3: also from from from the from the bottom up. And

1229
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 3: anyone that has a voice I think should be saying

1230
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 3: the same voice. Uh, you know, related as a Charlie

1231
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:51,080
Speaker 3: Kirk incident. You know, terrible. Yeah, anyone that would celebrate

1232
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:53,360
Speaker 3: the death of a father, to celebrate the death of

1233
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:57,920
Speaker 3: a husband over political descent is a is a real problem.

1234
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:01,559
Speaker 3: And and where where they get it from. I don't know. Man.

1235
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:04,080
Speaker 2: My kids would come home from school and they would

1236
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 2: tell me insane things that are being said at school.

1237
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:10,040
Speaker 2: I'm like, listen my kids in speech and debate. I'm like,

1238
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:10,760
Speaker 2: that man was.

1239
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 1: Killed at a debate where he's inviting the people that

1240
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 1: disagree with him most to come up and share their opinion.

1241
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:21,719
Speaker 2: He was killed at a debate.

1242
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:27,720
Speaker 3: To your point, he advocated debate. He had debated do

1243
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 3: you approve me wrong? On an intellectual capacity?

1244
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 2: And whoever disagrees most is the front of the line.

1245
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 3: And and and and have at it. But it was

1246
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 3: a It was an event of communication, of deliberation, of debate.

1247
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:50,240
Speaker 3: It should never resolve to violence. And I can tell

1248
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:53,639
Speaker 3: you this is not my first rodeo. The anger out

1249
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:57,840
Speaker 3: there is a distraction from getting things done. When you

1250
01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:02,519
Speaker 3: have anger. It doesn't allow a con conversation on affordable housing.

1251
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:08,760
Speaker 3: It doesn't allow conversation on economics and prosperity and and

1252
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:13,559
Speaker 3: and how to break through an environment that that's really

1253
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:17,600
Speaker 3: difficult for especially young people to get a job and

1254
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 3: get a house. Uh, you know, how do we how

1255
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:22,600
Speaker 3: do we address that when there's so much anger you

1256
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:24,880
Speaker 3: can't even have the discussion if you want to talk

1257
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:27,600
Speaker 3: about affordable housing to talk about you know, things like

1258
01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 3: title when you buy a house. You don't buy a house,

1259
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:37,639
Speaker 3: you buy a title, right, and it's the title.

1260
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:41,160
Speaker 2: It's the title you buy and sell.

1261
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 3: Right, And so we should look at you know, how

1262
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:45,720
Speaker 3: do we open up so people can have access to

1263
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:48,240
Speaker 3: a title? Is it? Is it? Uh? You know six

1264
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:51,040
Speaker 3: pluses eight plexes is a condos making it easier for

1265
01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:54,080
Speaker 3: people to own title because that's what gains equity and

1266
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 3: so but if if your life is destined to rent,

1267
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:03,840
Speaker 3: uh the entirety of your existence. Uh yeah, you know

1268
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:07,240
Speaker 3: that's that's a change from the American dream.

1269
01:13:07,439 --> 01:13:07,719
Speaker 2: Right.

1270
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:10,519
Speaker 3: The American dream is a couple of cars, a house.

1271
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:13,400
Speaker 3: You know, send the kids to school. They're gonna have

1272
01:13:13,479 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 3: more opportunity than you did. Diminishing it. You know, it's

1273
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 3: probably not possible to if you live in New York

1274
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,040
Speaker 3: City to buy it, buy a building or a block.

1275
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 3: But you can buy a long term lease on on

1276
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:29,320
Speaker 3: an apartment with title and sell that. So there's other

1277
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:32,559
Speaker 3: ways to do it. But you can't get there if

1278
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 3: you're so angry. You clinch your fists and you shut

1279
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:38,360
Speaker 3: off your ears, and all you're going to do is

1280
01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:39,200
Speaker 3: is become angry.

1281
01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 2: Uh.

1282
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:42,640
Speaker 3: And you know, I've been a seal. I've seen a

1283
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:44,599
Speaker 3: lot of things in my life. I've seen I've seen

1284
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:48,719
Speaker 3: the very best of humanity and I have seen the worst.

1285
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 3: I have absolutely seen the worst in humanity. But I

1286
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:56,200
Speaker 3: remain an optimist. Uh that always good will prevail. And

1287
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:58,400
Speaker 3: you know, one of the nice things about it is

1288
01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:01,080
Speaker 3: that we do live in Montana. We're here in Bozeman.

1289
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:05,000
Speaker 3: So sometimes the problems are over the horizon. They're concerned

1290
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:08,920
Speaker 3: because that they're over horizonment in this country. And I

1291
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 3: think the only way to address it is that we

1292
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 3: all should address it, because we all rise and fall

1293
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 3: on the same tide. And you know, go to the

1294
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:23,800
Speaker 3: neighbor you you really dislike and salo, yeah, yeah that.

1295
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're talking about divisions making it that we can't

1296
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 1: get projects done. I just worry about divisions that make

1297
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:34,560
Speaker 1: it the the the American We can't get the American

1298
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:39,200
Speaker 1: experience done, the American experiment done, you know, Like I

1299
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 1: just I don't know, man, I've just been like really.

1300
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:43,080
Speaker 4: Tore up about I think I think it should be

1301
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:47,920
Speaker 4: really really hit like with like with with with.

1302
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:50,479
Speaker 1: The death of Charlie Kirk. It was like not just

1303
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:55,120
Speaker 1: that tragedy, but sort of the the the mindsets that

1304
01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:57,840
Speaker 1: came out of that and some of the opinions that

1305
01:14:57,880 --> 01:14:58,879
Speaker 1: came out of that.

1306
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:03,439
Speaker 4: Stunning it Like it hit dude, It like hit me

1307
01:15:03,560 --> 01:15:06,519
Speaker 4: like a I've been having like a cry, like a

1308
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:08,400
Speaker 4: like a little bit of a of a like an

1309
01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:11,559
Speaker 4: emotional crisis about just since those days.

1310
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:14,240
Speaker 2: It's been hard since those days, Like not.

1311
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:17,000
Speaker 1: Just the like I feel bad, like I feel terrible

1312
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 1: for the person's family, but the symbolism of it and

1313
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:23,559
Speaker 1: this idea that you would this idea that people would

1314
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:26,719
Speaker 1: come out and and act like they were glad about

1315
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:28,800
Speaker 1: something like that, and then the way they would just

1316
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:32,760
Speaker 1: be leveraged by everybody, and the way the motivations of

1317
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:34,640
Speaker 1: the shooter would be leveraged. I don't know, man, just

1318
01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:36,880
Speaker 1: made me feel sick, Like I still feel kind of

1319
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:37,479
Speaker 1: sick from it.

1320
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:43,719
Speaker 3: But we should feel sick because it's one it should

1321
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 3: be unacceptable, and sometimes we're a loss of words. But

1322
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:52,480
Speaker 3: I think it's I think it's a value to reflect

1323
01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:59,919
Speaker 3: and it's only evil if we don't change. And maybe,

1324
01:16:00,280 --> 01:16:02,680
Speaker 3: you know, there's not much of a silver lining in

1325
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:06,559
Speaker 3: in Charlie's death, but maybe we'll give us a moment

1326
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:08,960
Speaker 3: of reflection in the watershed moments that we don't want

1327
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:12,240
Speaker 3: to be that country. We don't want to have shootings

1328
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:18,639
Speaker 3: on political disagreements. We don't want to have anger because

1329
01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:22,600
Speaker 3: what as a results in it results in the dismantling

1330
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:28,200
Speaker 3: of a great nation, uh, dismantling of our our fabric

1331
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:31,800
Speaker 3: as as Americans. We're we are bonded by one nation

1332
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:36,559
Speaker 3: under God, so we should hopefully we were rally. I'm

1333
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 3: seeing some signs of it. You know. It's it's it's my,

1334
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:43,040
Speaker 3: it's my you know, prayer that we don't snap back

1335
01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 3: to where we were, that we actually move forward on

1336
01:16:45,120 --> 01:16:50,559
Speaker 3: it and and his death will have some positive outcome, uh,

1337
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 3: you know if from it. It's only positive if if

1338
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:58,040
Speaker 3: it's recognized and we we change our tone and actions

1339
01:16:58,240 --> 01:17:00,439
Speaker 3: uh to it, and and that that have to come

1340
01:17:00,439 --> 01:17:03,840
Speaker 3: from from everybody. It didn't happen overnight. This anger was

1341
01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:09,240
Speaker 3: allowed to brew, and in some cases it was promoted. Uh,

1342
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:13,599
Speaker 3: you know, calling someone a Nazi three thousand times on TV.

1343
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:16,479
Speaker 3: Eventually someone goes, oh, it must be a Nazi because

1344
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:19,680
Speaker 3: you said, I is it just just you know, I

1345
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:24,360
Speaker 3: understand freedom of speech, but you know you can articulate,

1346
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:27,640
Speaker 3: you know, and like my mom said, you can you

1347
01:17:27,680 --> 01:17:29,040
Speaker 3: know you can use your words?

1348
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:31,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I told dude.

1349
01:17:31,560 --> 01:17:34,120
Speaker 1: I told my kids, I'm like, when all this is

1350
01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:36,680
Speaker 1: going on, I was like, hey, man, I like, I

1351
01:17:36,720 --> 01:17:40,720
Speaker 1: have opinions that are controversial. I'm an outspoken hunter, which

1352
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:42,560
Speaker 1: in some people's minds is controversial.

1353
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:45,120
Speaker 2: I go to colleges and give talks and talk to people.

1354
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:47,559
Speaker 3: I like, I hear you kill animals.

1355
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:50,479
Speaker 1: Well, I imagine, like I'm saying, like, if someone I

1356
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 1: told my kids, someone shoots me out of the college campus,

1357
01:17:53,439 --> 01:17:56,200
Speaker 1: there's gonna be people that are like, well, he deserved it,

1358
01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:57,479
Speaker 1: And I'm like, how are you going to feel in

1359
01:17:57,520 --> 01:17:57,920
Speaker 1: that moment?

1360
01:17:59,120 --> 01:17:59,680
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?

1361
01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:02,400
Speaker 1: It's just like I don't want to keep around that.

1362
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:04,280
Speaker 1: I'm sure glad you came by the talk.

1363
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:07,240
Speaker 2: Here's there's there are some.

1364
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:12,560
Speaker 3: Good things as that you know, the spirit of Americans

1365
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:15,120
Speaker 3: that we're all Americans. And I get I've seen I've

1366
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:18,760
Speaker 3: seen humanity it's worst and I've seen himanity the best. Uh.

1367
01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:22,760
Speaker 3: We have an opportunity, uh to make sure we learned

1368
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:26,040
Speaker 3: from this and move on. And I think if if

1369
01:18:26,120 --> 01:18:29,280
Speaker 3: leadership across the board on both sides of the aisle,

1370
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:31,600
Speaker 3: and there's probably three or fourth different sides in the

1371
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 3: aisle of folks out there, but all of this should

1372
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:38,880
Speaker 3: should recognize and and and push back. And I'm seeing

1373
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:41,960
Speaker 3: that with with you know a lot of tone of

1374
01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:45,120
Speaker 3: the media, people that are are in the influence you know,

1375
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:49,280
Speaker 3: world say the same thing, talk about it not all,

1376
01:18:50,479 --> 01:18:53,320
Speaker 3: but I'm I'm seeing some some good signs. And hey,

1377
01:18:55,400 --> 01:18:58,080
Speaker 3: why it's not perfect. H You wake up the morning

1378
01:18:58,160 --> 01:19:00,240
Speaker 3: the best you can. You influence those things as you

1379
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:03,599
Speaker 3: can influence and accept kind of the things you can't.

1380
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:07,160
Speaker 3: You don't you don't quit, you don't give up. You're

1381
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 3: passionate about your ideas and you kind of associate sometimes

1382
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:13,559
Speaker 3: with people that are also passionate. And it's not so bad.

1383
01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:15,960
Speaker 3: Once in a while go out and meet someone that

1384
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:20,000
Speaker 3: you don't would normally not have a conversation with in

1385
01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:22,760
Speaker 3: the house. Believe it or not, I'll go over the

1386
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:26,640
Speaker 3: Democrats side of the aisle. I'll sit down and uh

1387
01:19:27,439 --> 01:19:30,280
Speaker 3: I have I have. I have a group of people

1388
01:19:30,320 --> 01:19:34,120
Speaker 3: with distinctly different backgrounds in mind. Uh, sit down, we

1389
01:19:34,160 --> 01:19:37,320
Speaker 3: have a I have conversation with it. I've I've learned

1390
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:40,960
Speaker 3: about the Deep South a lot, uh from from from

1391
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:42,160
Speaker 3: comper conversations.

1392
01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:45,839
Speaker 1: Listen, I watched you. You don't know this. I've watched

1393
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:50,920
Speaker 1: you do this now. I watched you go up and

1394
01:19:51,560 --> 01:19:54,800
Speaker 1: out of your way and engage with of all things,

1395
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:55,520
Speaker 1: a democrat.

1396
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:58,120
Speaker 2: I watched you go across the room and do it. Well.

1397
01:19:58,120 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 3: I'll tell you a sick I have a lot of

1398
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:00,639
Speaker 3: friends that are ras too.

1399
01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:05,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I saw that and I appreciated it. Man,

1400
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:06,120
Speaker 1: I appreciated it.

1401
01:20:06,160 --> 01:20:08,160
Speaker 3: Well. I don't think our problems are going to be

1402
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:10,160
Speaker 3: solved from one side of the aisle or the other.

1403
01:20:10,479 --> 01:20:12,880
Speaker 3: And I think the problems it's always the kind of

1404
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:16,560
Speaker 3: the middle lanes that look at and most people, you know,

1405
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:19,640
Speaker 3: I just want government to function, and they just just

1406
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:22,920
Speaker 3: want to cover cover the basics and make sure you

1407
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:27,920
Speaker 3: have a functional government and the resources are put where

1408
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 3: people need them. I think there's a Christian aspect of it. Look,

1409
01:20:32,160 --> 01:20:35,200
Speaker 3: if someone someone's hurting and then you shouldn't walk past.

1410
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:38,320
Speaker 3: You know, you should provide some help. Handout is always

1411
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:40,920
Speaker 3: better than it then, or hand up is better than

1412
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:45,240
Speaker 3: a handout. But in some cases, you know, people just

1413
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:50,040
Speaker 3: aren't able to be you know, they're going to make

1414
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:51,760
Speaker 3: a lot of mistakes in life, and they're going to

1415
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:52,799
Speaker 3: continue to make stakes.

1416
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:53,640
Speaker 2: So what do you do.

1417
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:56,839
Speaker 3: You either can incarcrate them or you try to provide

1418
01:20:56,840 --> 01:21:01,000
Speaker 3: some opportunity to reform. I'm gonna redemption and guy, you know,

1419
01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:04,080
Speaker 3: try to put him in a program where where you

1420
01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:07,599
Speaker 3: know they they work and at something. You know, everyone

1421
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:13,360
Speaker 3: can do something, and and work is healing. Work provides

1422
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:17,880
Speaker 3: purpose a lot of times self worth evaluation. So get

1423
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:21,120
Speaker 3: them in something that they feel good about, even if

1424
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:25,559
Speaker 3: it's picking up garbage. I pick up garbage, I clean

1425
01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:27,960
Speaker 3: toilets at parks. I'm happy with it.

1426
01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:31,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, congress some zincie, thanks for coming on, uh

1427
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:34,800
Speaker 1: talking about conservation issues, talking about American patriotism.

1428
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:37,960
Speaker 3: I appreciate it and just and just around around the block.

1429
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:40,439
Speaker 3: I always enjoy and thanks for what you do. By

1430
01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:44,360
Speaker 3: the way, I think, Uh, you're you're You're insightful. I

1431
01:21:44,360 --> 01:21:46,320
Speaker 3: thank you. You drive the issues.

1432
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:46,680
Speaker 2: UH.

1433
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:49,280
Speaker 3: You have a great following for a reason is that

1434
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:52,759
Speaker 3: I think you bring up some some hard hitting UH

1435
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:56,000
Speaker 3: issues and UH and probably most of all, I understand

1436
01:21:56,040 --> 01:21:56,840
Speaker 3: you're a pretty good hunter.

1437
01:21:57,200 --> 01:22:00,760
Speaker 1: M I got good I got friends that appoint me

1438
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:01,400
Speaker 1: in the right direction.

1439
01:22:01,479 --> 01:22:02,479
Speaker 3: I heard you got a good scope.

1440
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:05,040
Speaker 2: Thank you very much,