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Speaker 1: Body backs with Joseph Scott Morgan over the course of

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Speaker 1: many years of talking to police officers, not so much detectives,

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Speaker 1: but from people that have been on the beat, as

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Speaker 1: they say, patrolman, people that work a specific zone. They're

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Speaker 1: called different things and different jurisdictions. You always hear them

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Speaker 1: say every single rollout, every single location they're summoned to.

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Speaker 1: Though some of the cases might appear you're to be

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Speaker 1: the same on the surface that they go out to work.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing out there that is the same over and

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Speaker 1: over and over again. Everything has some little nuance, some

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Speaker 1: little change. And most of the time, when you show

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Speaker 1: up at a scene and you hear a lady screaming

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Speaker 1: and you see blood pouring out of her leg, and

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Speaker 1: you walk on through the house and you see an

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Speaker 1: individual that has been restrained and executed, you can't take

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Speaker 1: the measure of it.

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Speaker 2: Initially.

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Speaker 1: First off, you're afraid. If you're the police officer, you're afraid.

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Speaker 1: You're afraid. There might be other dangers that lurk around

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Speaker 1: every corner, but you have to get her out of

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Speaker 1: there to make sure that she gets a medical attention

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Speaker 1: that she needs. But when you begin your assessment of

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Speaker 1: the scene. Sometimes things just don't add up. Today we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about a lady named Deborah Fraser and

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Speaker 1: a tale that she told the patrolman that at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day took them down a path that

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Speaker 1: I can assure you when their watch started, they had

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Speaker 1: not anticipated being upon. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this

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Speaker 1: is body Bags. I've gotten to the point my life, Dave,

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Speaker 1: where I realized that the phrase I didn't come down

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Speaker 1: with the last drop of rain means more and more.

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Speaker 1: It's really hard for someone to defeat my so called

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Speaker 1: BS meter. That comes with age, it comes with experience.

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Speaker 1: You don't have it. And I can tell you and

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Speaker 1: I have had conversations off Mike for a long time

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Speaker 1: now where we've talked about this that we're not as naive.

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Speaker 1: Our muscle twitch might not be like it used to

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Speaker 1: be when we were kids, might not can run up

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Speaker 1: a hill as well as we once could. But there's

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Speaker 1: something about your senses that sharpen, and you see enough

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Speaker 1: BS come across your decks, your meeter becomes acutely attuned

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Speaker 1: to that. And I think that this case today is

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Speaker 1: certainly first off, it's filled with forensics, but it's also

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Speaker 1: filled with stuff that you fertilize the garden with too.

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Speaker 3: I think it was an interesting plan that Deborah Frasier

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Speaker 3: came up with. It really was think about it. She

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Speaker 3: meets this man while she's working at Kroger, and I

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Speaker 3: think about Thomas Waddell. He's sixty six years old, she's

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Speaker 3: thirty six, and they've been in an on and off

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Speaker 3: in relationship for a number of years, even though there's

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Speaker 3: a thirty year age difference. I mentioned they were working

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Speaker 3: together at Kroger because I always wonder how does somebody

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Speaker 3: get into a romantic relationship with that big of a

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Speaker 3: difference of age. Yeah, and it really comes down to

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Speaker 3: to him for many other things, you know. And he

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Speaker 3: apparently liked helping people that were kind of down and

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Speaker 3: out on their luck. And anyway, Donna Fraser and Thomas

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Speaker 3: Waddell were in a relationship of sorts, and Dona Fraser

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Speaker 3: also had another person she was involved with as well romantically.

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Speaker 3: I'm so glad you pointed me into the direction of

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Speaker 3: the statement of facts, because I'm going to give you

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Speaker 3: the end of the story. This is the Paul Harvey

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Speaker 3: instead of the rest of the story the end of

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Speaker 3: the story, because here it is. After days of planning,

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Speaker 3: on the evening of August ninth, twenty twenty three, Deborah

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Speaker 3: Fraser stood behind Thomas Waddell as he sat in his recliner.

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Speaker 3: She raised his twenty two caliber pistol, aimed it at

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Speaker 3: the back of his head, and executed him in his

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Speaker 3: living room. Those are the facts of the case.

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Speaker 1: Those are the facts of the case.

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Speaker 3: Yes, but the story that she told. She calls nine

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Speaker 3: to one one. There's a burglar he had happening right

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Speaker 3: now at my boyfriend's house. Send help right away. Oh

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Speaker 3: wait a minute, pop, Yeah, gunshot in the background.

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Speaker 2: I've been shot in the hope.

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Speaker 3: In a small town. The entire police force, on and

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Speaker 3: off duty, showed up. But thankfully the chief of police

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Speaker 3: got there first, so the most experienced guy, at least

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Speaker 3: the most responsible. I don't know how chief works, but

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Speaker 3: I would think if the chief shows up and take's

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Speaker 3: command of the zine, you've got a good investigation going on.

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Speaker 3: That's what I'm thinking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he can throw, he can throw whatever resource. You

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Speaker 1: don't have to wait around for the resources to show up.

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Speaker 1: Your primary resource is there. And if the chief understands

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Speaker 1: that he's out of his depth or his department rather

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Speaker 1: is out of their depth. It's not an insult to

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Speaker 1: their intelligence in any way. It's literally comes down to resources.

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Speaker 1: In a smaller jurisdiction, you want to get in this

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Speaker 1: case happened in Ohio, so you want to get what's

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Speaker 1: referred to as BCI involved, which is the Bureau of

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Speaker 1: Criminal Investigations, that's the state, and they eventually do become

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Speaker 1: involved in this because I'm sure that, look, this is

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Speaker 1: one of those cases that when you're old and retired

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Speaker 1: from the police force, this will be one of the

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Speaker 1: cases like if somebody comes up to you and finds

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Speaker 1: out you are a cop and they'll say, what's the

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Speaker 1: most bizarre case you ever? Yeah, exactly a small town.

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Speaker 1: I guarantee hands are going to go up and people

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Speaker 1: will say, hey, I got one for you, you know,

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Speaker 1: because it is it is that bizarre. But Dave, you

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Speaker 1: know the thing about it is this, this man, mister Waddell,

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Speaker 1: was found in his apartment and he's he's essentially been

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Speaker 1: kind of wrapped and contained. He's got duct tape that's

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Speaker 1: wrapping him up. He's been executed, and here's look you know,

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Speaker 1: we always say this in in uh, when we're teaching

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Speaker 1: or or when we're writing reports, there's and it's wrote.

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Speaker 1: It's like you could take it and just kind of

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Speaker 1: boilerplate stamp every report with this, or conversely, say you

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Speaker 1: did see something, but most reports are going to say

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Speaker 1: we saw no signs of forced entry or struggle. They

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Speaker 1: they didn't, they didn't. To try to marry up with

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Speaker 1: what miss Fraser was putting forth here that there were

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Speaker 1: two assailants, she actually named them as white males, so

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Speaker 1: she's getting more more specific with her descriptor. It's not

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Speaker 1: just two random dudes, two white males. They are burglarizing

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Speaker 1: the place and oops, I've been shot. Right.

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Speaker 3: I was going to ask you about the bushy haired

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Speaker 3: stranger and very quickly the story you're laying out that

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Speaker 3: Donna Fraser told them. I wonder sometimes how quickly do you?

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Speaker 3: I mean, you're I put you as part of the

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Speaker 3: investigation and know you're the forensic person baker right right. Ultimately,

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Speaker 3: you know you do have a lot of forensics here

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Speaker 3: because according to Donna Frasier's story, when she calls nine

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Speaker 3: to one one, she claims to have been shot in

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Speaker 3: the leg she claims that there were two other burglars

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Speaker 3: in the house that left her boyfriend. As you mentioned,

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Speaker 3: he's found in a back room of his own apartment,

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Speaker 3: wrapped in a blanket and a garbage bag, and it's

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Speaker 3: all secured with duct tape. And they hear the gunshot

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Speaker 3: on the nine to one one call. This is what

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Speaker 3: they're walking into. And I'm thinking, how did they uncover

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Speaker 3: it to find out that she stood behind mister freu

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Speaker 3: Waddell and shot him in the head.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, here's here's the other piece to this is that

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Speaker 1: these perpetrators apparently left their weapon behind, because there's a

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Speaker 1: twenty two caliber revolver lying on the floor adjacent to

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Speaker 1: her as she's bleeding out on the floor having been

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Speaker 1: shot in the shot in the leg. One of the

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Speaker 1: things always fascinates me with these staged events like this

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Speaker 1: where people will self inflict injuries. You know, you see

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Speaker 1: old movies and stuff where people try to make themselves

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Speaker 1: look beat up, where they'll throw theirselves down the set

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Speaker 1: of steps or something like that to bruise themselves all

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Speaker 1: up and everything, but with gunshot wounds in particular. And

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Speaker 1: I know I'll get some blowback from this and say

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Speaker 1: that leg shots are not fatal. They are fatal. I've

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Speaker 1: worked them. You know, if you're shot in the leg,

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Speaker 1: if you clip a femeral artery, there's a there's a

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Speaker 1: good chance you could bleed out. But let's just it's

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Speaker 1: not like being shot center mass in the chest. It's

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Speaker 1: you see a lot of these stage crimes where people

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Speaker 1: will shoot themselves in the periphery, you know, they shoot

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Speaker 1: themselves in the hand. In a case in Georgia famously,

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Speaker 1: where where a deputy sheriff had shot himself in the

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Speaker 1: palm of the hand in order to make it look

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Speaker 1: like he was fighting with an assailant, it just so

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Speaker 1: happens that the weapon turned out to be his own weapon.

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Speaker 1: That and he was a drug seeker. And isn't it amazing.

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Speaker 1: They don't get shot in the chest or the abdomen.

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Speaker 1: It's always like in the leg or the arm or

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Speaker 1: maybe the shoulder, you know, to kind of cover these

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Speaker 1: things up. They certainly don't shoot themselves in the head.

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Speaker 3: If somebody shoots themselves in the leg and they're trying

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Speaker 3: to claim that the shot was from somebody else, can

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Speaker 3: you tell how close they were?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, because look, your arms have a if it's

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Speaker 1: self inflicted, your arms have a terminal distance. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can't you can't extend beyond that. I guess you

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Speaker 1: could if you set up some kind of apparatus. And

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Speaker 1: I've had people, I've actually had suicides. I've worked where

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Speaker 1: people have set up a weapon that has a rather

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Speaker 1: complex mechanism. When another individual opens the door, it actually

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Speaker 1: initiates the firing sequence and shoots the person that's sitting

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Speaker 1: there in the chair in anticipation of the person arriving.

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Speaker 1: And yes, that does happen, but that requires try quite

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Speaker 1: a bit of planning and let's face it, precision.

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Speaker 3: Mostly behind a lot of evidence too.

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Speaker 1: Yes you do. You know you've got this contraption, and

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Speaker 1: so I don't know that that's necessarily set up to

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Speaker 1: stage as much as it is in the case of suicide,

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Speaker 1: to punish the other person that's opening the door. So

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Speaker 1: that's a completely separate set of facts.

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Speaker 3: So you talk this wounded leg and say, yeah, that

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Speaker 3: didn't come from across the room.

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Speaker 1: No it didn't. Because let's just say, now we're dealing

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Speaker 1: with what's referred to as a twenty two caliber revolver,

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Speaker 1: and we can get into that more in just a moment.

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Speaker 1: But let's just say she's got something with an exceedingly

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Speaker 1: long barrel length. And there's not a lot of them

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Speaker 1: out there that are on market that you're going to purchase.

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Speaker 1: But I suppose there's something with a really But even

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Speaker 1: if it's got a long barrel length, that powder along

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Speaker 1: with the projectile, of course, but the powder itself is

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Speaker 1: what I'm interested in. It's going to be contained and

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Speaker 1: it'll come to a full point that delivers on target.

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Speaker 1: So let's just say if she's able to extend the

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Speaker 1: muzzle length even out to eighteen inches twenty inches away

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Speaker 1: from her body when she initiates that firing sequence, probably

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Speaker 1: pulling it, well, I guess she could take it. If

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Speaker 1: it all depends on where she shot in the leg

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Speaker 1: on the inner thigh. She could certainly hold it normally

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Speaker 1: and fire into her thigh. That way, you're going to

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Speaker 1: have something that's left behind. Now, defense can argue in

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Speaker 1: a case like that, we don't you understand my client

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Speaker 1: was struggling, Well, Dave, you mentioned just a moment ago

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Speaker 1: that the report of the weapon could be heard by

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Speaker 1: the nine to eleven operator. That's not like a struggle

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Speaker 1: ensued a protracted it. You know, the nine to eleven

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Speaker 1: operators saying yeah, I heard furniture being broken, and people

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Speaker 1: say no, no, no, no. What they heard was oh wait, pain,

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Speaker 1: you know, like this, And so that means that this

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Speaker 1: thing is shot pretty immediately once this call is initiated.

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Speaker 1: So that's very fascinating this case. Yeah, and we can

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Speaker 1: do range of fire, and I can guarantee you in

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Speaker 1: this case, they certainly did, and what they found out

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Speaker 1: just didn't quite job with what Miss Brent Fraser.

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Speaker 2: Was laying down.

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Speaker 1: To this point, Dave, we've talked about the potential of

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Speaker 1: self inflicted gunshop when with a twenty two caliber revolver,

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Speaker 1: that is as it applies to Miss Fraser. But you know,

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Speaker 1: we're kind of dancing around this topic of this poor man,

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Speaker 1: mister Waddell, who, by the way, I think had recently retired.

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Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken.

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Speaker 3: That was the saddest part of all of this, Joe, is.

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Speaker 1: You live, you live your life, and you get to

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Speaker 1: this point.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you've got a woman in your life that

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Speaker 3: on again, off again relationship, but she's considerably younger. But ultimately,

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Speaker 3: in his head, you know, this man was one of

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Speaker 3: those people that liked to help people. That was the

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Speaker 3: one thing that was consistent. It said, mister Wadell just

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Speaker 3: liked helping people that needed help. But one of the

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Speaker 3: things that did catch me here, Joe and I'm curious.

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Speaker 3: Officers are on the scene and they immediately cleared the scene. Okay,

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Speaker 3: we know that there's no arm burglars in the house anymore.

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Speaker 3: We do have a wounded victim right now. We believe

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Speaker 3: she is the victim and she's hurt. But there's also

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Speaker 3: the body of a guy in the back of the house,

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Speaker 3: back of the apartment, and he's been wrapped up. As

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Speaker 3: we mentioned, he was wrapped in a blanket, a big

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Speaker 3: garbage bag, and duct tape. Now it's possible that he

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Speaker 3: might not be dead. He's wrapped up in all of that.

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Speaker 3: But do the police unwrap him right there and determined

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Speaker 3: what's going on with his body or do they look

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Speaker 3: at him and go, okay, there's some there's a body

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Speaker 3: in here. They're not alive. I mean, how how does

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Speaker 3: that take place? I'm curious because they got to determine

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Speaker 3: if he's alive or dead.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they have to, and they have to. It all

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Speaker 1: depends on what their comfort level is really with this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not anop on that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well for me, if I'm coming across a wrapped

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Speaker 1: body like this, I'm going to air more toward it.

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Speaker 1: We at least need to assess externally if we can

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Speaker 1: hear through this. The EMTs need to if you can

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Speaker 1: find his chest, see if you can listen for a pulse,

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Speaker 1: make sure you got your gloves are here for you know,

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Speaker 1: the heart sounds or maybe respirations. But to the e MTS,

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Speaker 1: I would say keep your gloves on because if he's

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Speaker 1: wrapped in plastic, all right, that's a non poor surface.

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Speaker 1: So that means that any kind of fingerprint latent print

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Speaker 1: can be transferred onto that bag. And it's not so

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Speaker 1: something you would necessarily want to cut through, because it's

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Speaker 1: so fine and so very fragile that you can take

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Speaker 1: those bags and if you take them off very carefully

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Speaker 1: in a controlled environment where everybody's gloved up, they're paying

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Speaker 1: attention to precisely what they're doing, you can retrieve prints

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Speaker 1: off of those bags very easily. And you've also got

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Speaker 1: this thing involving tape, and the exterior of the tape

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Speaker 1: is very important as well, because again it kind of

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Speaker 1: has a plastic coating on the outside of it. You

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Speaker 1: can lift a print there. But you know what's even

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Speaker 1: more important is the adhesive side. And if you'll think

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Speaker 1: of the adhesive on the sticky side of duct tape,

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Speaker 1: it's a lot like messing around with putty when you're

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Speaker 1: a kid, any kind of you know, play do o

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Speaker 1: or silly putty or whatever you're going to leave behind.

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Speaker 1: It's almost what we're to is a plastic print where

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Speaker 1: you can if you hold it just right, you can

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Speaker 1: actually make out the friction ridge lines the details of

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Speaker 1: the print itself in that And so you can if

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Speaker 1: you use something like iodine fuming in that particular sensuation.

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Speaker 3: Explain what that is.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's you apply I dying or something similar to it.

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Speaker 1: I think you can use ninhydrone as well as one

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Speaker 1: of the other things that fingerprint people use, and it

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Speaker 1: will literally freeze that fingerprint in that position. It won't

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Speaker 1: go anywhere, and it has kind of a brown appearance

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Speaker 1: to it after they do that. If the print examiner

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Speaker 1: is really good, they'll be able to pick up on

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Speaker 1: what we refer to as the minutia and the print,

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Speaker 1: which are like the little details in the friction ridge

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Speaker 1: lines that are left behind. You have things like pores, crossovers, deltas,

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Speaker 1: ending ridges. I could go on and on and on.

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Speaker 1: There's all these bits of ANUSI and you do a

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Speaker 1: general classification on the print. You know, people hear whirls

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Speaker 1: and loops and all these sorts of things, and then

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Speaker 1: you tighten that down as you go through your assessment

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Speaker 1: of it so you can recover that stuff off this

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Speaker 1: guy's body. And what's fascinating about this is that they

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Speaker 1: had a deputy corner out at the scene. Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: and that individual is speaking with the forensic pathologists, and

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Speaker 1: the forensic pathologist tells them, look, don't unwrap the body.

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Speaker 1: Bring the body into the morgue in its pristine state.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that we like to do in these cases,

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Speaker 1: particularly if somebody has been down, and this is one

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Speaker 1: other thing I fail to mention. I think that it's important.

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Speaker 1: You're talking about after death assessment. One of the things

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Speaker 1: that we have these seven cardinal signs of death that

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Speaker 1: we look for. In one of those cardinal signs, well,

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Speaker 1: one is lack of respiration, all right, that's one of

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Speaker 1: the cardinal signs. But another thing that we look for

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Speaker 1: are mortem changes. Now you can't necessarily see through a

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Speaker 1: plastic bag and blood is settled on a body, but

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Speaker 1: what you can appreciate is rigidity in the body. If

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Speaker 1: the body is stiff, you can feel that through a

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Speaker 1: plastic bag and you can say, yeah, this person's gone

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Speaker 1: on to their reward. But the forensic pathologist, they requested

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Speaker 1: that the body be brought to the morgue in its

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Speaker 1: pristine shape, unwrapped totally. And when you get that body

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Speaker 1: into a controlled environment where you have perfect lighting, and

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Speaker 1: they have in most autopsy suites there'll be surgical style lighting,

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Speaker 1: so it blasts out all of the shadows that are possible, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that they can possibly do because you know with surgical

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Speaker 1: lighting you need you need perfect clarity so that you

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Speaker 1: can see every little detail, and you bring a photographer

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Speaker 1: that's in there and you can capture everything on there.

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Speaker 1: You can pick up on some little nuances you might

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Speaker 1: not otherwise see at the scene, and the forensic pathologist

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Speaker 1: is aware of that. But probably most fascinating of all

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Speaker 1: relative to the decision that this forensic pathologist made, and

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Speaker 1: it's not necessarily something I would normally agree with, but

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Speaker 1: I understand it that forensic pathologist felt as though that

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Speaker 1: if they could receive that body still wrapped up and

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Speaker 1: in its pristine state, he could get an estimation of

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Speaker 1: post mortem interval, that is, how long had mister Whitell

338
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Speaker 1: been deceased. And we all know that one of the

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Speaker 1: most important points along this entire case is this interesting

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Speaker 1: nine to eleven call in her statements, that is Miss

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Speaker 1: Frasier's statements from the scene. And as it turned out,

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Speaker 1: the forensic pathologist was right. Twelve hours. That's half a day.

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Speaker 1: For those of you counting math hard, I know it's

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Speaker 1: hard for me, man, it really is. I was never

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Speaker 1: a great math student, but I do know that twelve

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Speaker 1: hours is half a day. What can you do with

347
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Speaker 1: twelve hours? If you had twelve hours of what could

348
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Speaker 1: you do with it? Well, if you're a scheming murderer,

349
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Speaker 1: I suppose that you could try to get your story straight.

350
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Speaker 1: I suppose you could kill someone maybe on the front

351
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Speaker 1: end of that twelve hours, and then contemplate how in

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Speaker 1: the world are you going to handle this moving forward,

353
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Speaker 1: because you're left with a body that someone is going

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Speaker 1: to have to answer for. In this case, I think

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Speaker 1: that the forensic pathologists made the right choice here.

356
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Speaker 3: You know, it's amazing to me how many things have

357
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Speaker 3: to go right in an investigation to lead you down

358
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Speaker 3: a path. This was not something that the suspect here,

359
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,120
Speaker 3: Deborah Fraser thought of in the space of thirty minutes

360
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Speaker 3: and said, I'm done with this guy. You know, this

361
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Speaker 3: was a long game here. Yeah. She During the investigation,

362
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Speaker 3: police uncovered a number of things, because the first thing

363
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Speaker 3: they do nowadays is start looking at your cell phone,

364
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 3: your computers, things like that to find out what your

365
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 3: history is, your search history, what have you been looking at,

366
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Speaker 3: what have you been reading online? What are some of

367
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 3: the things that are happening. And in this case, I

368
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Speaker 3: mentioned at the very beginning that while she had an

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Speaker 3: on again, off again relationship with mister Waddell, with Thomas Waddell,

370
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Speaker 3: she also had another boyfriend, and the other boyfriend was

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Speaker 3: not aware of mister Waddell. Mister Waddell don't think he

372
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Speaker 3: was aware of the other guy either. So Deborah Fraser

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Speaker 3: was able to play things in such a way that

374
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Speaker 3: she was able to convince her boyfriend to pose as

375
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Speaker 3: a bank fraud investigator and started calling Thomas Waddell. Now,

376
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Speaker 3: remember Deborah Fraser is thirty six years old. Mister Waddell.

377
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Speaker 3: Her boyfriend is sixty six and recently retired, and now

378
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Speaker 3: he's getting calls from a guy about fraud regarding his account.

379
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Speaker 3: And the man making the calls doesn't realize he is

380
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 3: calling Deborah Fraser's sometime boyfriend. He doesn't really know why

381
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Speaker 3: he's doing it, the second boyfriend, So there are now

382
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Speaker 3: three people involved in this. Deborah Fraser playing her second

383
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 3: boyfriend into doing things to terrorize her first boyfriend to

384
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Speaker 3: get information, obviously about a bank account. And we find

385
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 3: out that Deborah Fraser created a fake fraud email account

386
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Speaker 3: where she posed as a fraud claims representative who was

387
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 3: reaching out to Thomas Waddell, the victim. Here, investigators ended

388
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Speaker 3: up concluding that the motive for the murder is financial gain.

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Speaker 3: The second boyfriend gave Deborah Fraser rides the night of

390
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Speaker 3: the killing. The second boyfriend did not know Fraser was

391
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Speaker 3: in a relationship with mister Waddell, and the second boyfriend

392
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Speaker 3: was manipulated by Fraser into making the calls to Thomas Waddell.

393
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 3: So we have Deborah Fraser with a current new boyfriend

394
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 3: terrorizing her current old boyfriend into a financial ploy that

395
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 3: required her to get all this information and then kill

396
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Speaker 3: Thomas Waddell. But they found out something else, Jessein Scott

397
00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 3: Morgan and in their online research they call it the

398
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 3: forensic search of Fraser's phone. Yeah, they found that she

399
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 3: researched how to load a revolver and how to uncock

400
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 3: the hammer on a revolver. They also found that she

401
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:22,199
Speaker 3: researched how long does GSR stay on the skin Joe?

402
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 3: That was searched at eight sixteen am on August tenth,

403
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 3: about five hours before she called nine to one one. Yeah,

404
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 3: what is GSR for those of us who don't know

405
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 3: the technical issues here.

406
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's actually a test that we run to

407
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 1: see if someone has not necessarily fired a weapon, but

408
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: has been in proximity close enough to a weapon so

409
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 1: that the gunshot residue. The GSR essentially comes in lights

410
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: on these exposed areas of the body most of the time.

411
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: What you're to be looking for if someone has held

412
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: a weapon in their hand. If you think about the

413
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: kind of U shape that you that your handmakes with

414
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: the thumb and the index finger, if you placed a

415
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: weapon in there, pistol, perhaps that when you initiate the

416
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: firing sequence that there's going to be this cloud that

417
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: kind of rises up and settles down, and so this

418
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 1: agent that they're applying to the hand, what they're looking

419
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: to do is to try to find the presence of barium, antimony,

420
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 1: and lead, and all of those are components of propellant,

421
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: which is what you know sends the projectile down range.

422
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: And it's really hard to explain away the presence of

423
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 1: those three elements of the package as it applies to

424
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 1: gunshot residue. It's hard to you know. You can say, well,

425
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,199
Speaker 1: I don't know. I was using a lead pencil and

426
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: I was sharpening a lead pencil and I got a

427
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: lead on my hand. All right, how do you account

428
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 1: for the bearing in the antimony? Well, they all go

429
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: into the process of manufacturing, you know, the propellant, and

430
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: so you believe that it's going to be there. Now

431
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: this is superficial. Okay, this is superficial. So it's fragile.

432
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: One of the things we try to do at scenes

433
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: is if we have a suspect, you know, we we

434
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: try to keep them away from water and prevent them

435
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: from washing their hands just until they can get that

436
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 1: GSR test. And as a matter of fact, she was

437
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: so acutely aware of it, Dave that that she kind

438
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: of flipped her story around here. She tried to state that, oh, yeah, well,

439
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 1: the reason I would have just you know, if you're

440
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 1: going to do the test on me, the reason that

441
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 1: you would find it on me is that I had

442
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: my hands down trying to protect myself when I was

443
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 1: shot in the leg, and that the shower of powder

444
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: came down on me and it contained the bury him

445
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: in the antimony and the lead, and you know, that's

446
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: one of the things we try to try to understand,

447
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: you know, is the position. That's why it's so important

448
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: to try to understand the deposition of say any kind

449
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: of powder deposition that's on the that's visible, you know,

450
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: where you get unburned grains of powder, gunpowder that's embedded

451
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: in the skin, you can determine a range of fire.

452
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: But she's trying to account for all of this stuff

453
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: as she's moving down the road in her mind. But

454
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 1: one of things she didn't count on was the fact

455
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 1: that it go back to the forensic pathologist, is that he

456
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: was able to determine because they did not unwrap that body.

457
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: So it's not perfect calculus, but he was able to

458
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: determine that this individual had been dead for at least

459
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: twelve hours okay when this nine one one call was

460
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: was initiated, And so that that bit of science skews

461
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: the entire timeline, and he would have been assessing, well,

462
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: he would have done a body temperature more than likely

463
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: to try to assess that, to try to understand if

464
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: the person had essentially assumed room temperature, because a lot if.

465
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 3: They're wrapped in a blanket and a bag and duct

466
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 3: table with that not hold some of the body.

467
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: Would contain some of the heat. And so you're going

468
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: to have to when you're doing that formula and you're

469
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: trying to understand that, you're going to have to do

470
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: that calculation within it, and it's going to skew the data.

471
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: I think it will, because if the body was just

472
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: laying out, say exposed, doesn't have to be nude, but

473
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: just exposed. You know what does mama tell you when

474
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: you're little. You got to put a hat on your

475
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: head because you're gonna lose heat. You got to put

476
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: mittens on your hands because you're gonna lose heat. You

477
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: got to put shoes, socks and shoes on. You're gonna

478
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: lose heat. We lose it out of our extremities. You

479
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: retain it in your core for the longest period of time.

480
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: But theoretically what's held forth is that we retain the

481
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: longest time that we retain the heat that is generated

482
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: by the energy that our body produced is in life

483
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: maximum is twelve hours. Day. After that, your body essentially

484
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: becomes inanimate. It becomes like a desk or a chair

485
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: or anything else that occupies it space. It's impacted by

486
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: the environment in which it rest at that point in time.

487
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: And so that bit of valuable information went into the

488
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,719
Speaker 1: police when they're examining her. When I say examining her,

489
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about her physical person, but when they're

490
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: doing their investigation and they're trying to marry up her alibi.

491
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons I emphasized to my students

492
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: all the time. It's so important for PMI post mortem

493
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: interval that you glean that information because somebody's going to

494
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: try to alibi themselves at some point toime. And when

495
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: you look at a body and you see that body

496
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: is at full rigidity or lividity is fixed or the

497
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: core body temperature is skewed based upon the timeline they're

498
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: giving you. You can look to the science and say,

499
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: this is the ultimate light detector right here. This is

500
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: not a polygraph, this is a science. Tell them that

501
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: what you're saying doesn't compute with what the body is

502
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: telling me.

503
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 3: But don't investigators Still they look at what they're seeing

504
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 3: in front of them, but they still have to investigate

505
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 3: the story. They're told. They have witness and they still

506
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 3: have to. Okay, she said there were two burglars in

507
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 3: here and that she came in. They have to investigate

508
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 3: it based on this is what she said happened. Now, granted,

509
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 3: nothing in here looks legit to her story, but we

510
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,959
Speaker 3: still have to investigate, which means as they're going to

511
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 3: research everything, they're pulling anything that costs could possibly have

512
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 3: been touched by one of the two alleged burglars that

513
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 3: were in the house. It all happened bam, bam bam,

514
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 3: according to her story. So there was a lot going

515
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 3: in in this apartment before the police arrived, and in

516
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 3: minutes actually, because again on the nine to one one call,

517
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 3: well what did we hear? We heard the gunshot? We've

518
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 3: got all police on the scene very quickly, including the

519
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 3: chief of police who arrived first. And you've got a

520
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 3: body back there now that is wrapped up, you know,

521
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 3: the blanket, the garbage bag, duct tape. There's a lot

522
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 3: happening in this apartment in a very short period of time. So, yeah,

523
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 3: what did you do? I mean, you're the forensic guy.

524
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 3: What do you do when you walk into that.

525
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: First Off, you're going to be very careful in this environment.

526
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: You're going to get her out of there, which they did.

527
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: They essentially evacuated her out to the to the extractor

528
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: and took her to the hospital to treat her for

529
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: this this gunshot one.

530
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 3: How bad was the gunshot wound in her leg?

531
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: It was bad enough so that she was pooling blood

532
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: around her. But that's it's it's almost an elementary procedure

533
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: when you go into an emergency room. Particularly if you

534
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: can rule out that she hasn't severely broken a bone

535
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: and she hasn't clipped an artery, they can patch her

536
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: up pretty quickly, so it's not as ghastly as it sounds.

537
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,479
Speaker 1: It's not going to be like her leg's been blown

538
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: off or something like this. That's not what happened. And

539
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: the weapon that's used is very it's as far as

540
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: calibers of weapon, it's on the low end. It's a

541
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: twenty two caliber on it's a small repellt gun from

542
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: a pellet Yeah, from a pellet gun, and which is

543
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: zero point one seven seven there. And look that don't

544
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: come at me with all the numbers because there's a

545
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: lot of stuff that's in between there. But the most

546
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: common uh so, the the point two two is very

547
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: small and looks small, small as deadly as well. You

548
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: can't think that it's not. But it was sufficient to

549
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: the task for mister Waddell that when he.

550
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 3: Was fined with him when they actually unwrapped him, Joe,

551
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 3: I mean, now he's in the morgue right about the

552
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 3: Emmy's office. I don't know the right term, but when

553
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 3: they started wrapping him, there's going to have to be

554
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 3: a lot of documentation, right.

555
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, there would be, and you know how how he

556
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: was packing. And also I'm very curious, which they've never

557
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: truly revealed in this case that if you look at

558
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 1: someone that has first off, I've never heard of someone

559
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: being wrapped up that is a victim of a burglary.

560
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: It sounds I've heard of people I've had.

561
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: I didn't think about that at all.

562
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 3: I did not think about that.

563
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's just it's not like this is

564
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: a kidnapping or a body dump I have now, I

565
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: have worked cases, some of the most brutal cases where

566
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: a homeowner came home and they surprised a burglar and

567
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 1: they were beaten to death. But the burglar doesn't go

568
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: to the trouble of wrapping and let's face it, packaging

569
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: the body. So one of the most important things is

570
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: did that round because he was shot in the back

571
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: of the head. You famously said at the beginning of

572
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: this episode, Dave, that they talked about how she stood

573
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: behind him with his that's the possessive his weapon and

574
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: shot him in the back of the head. Did the

575
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: round pass thro any of the so called wrapping or packaging,

576
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: because if that's the case, then you would have a

577
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: grown man that was wrapped up in a comforter trash

578
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: backs with tape all around it, and he is then

579
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: shot through the bag or was he shot first and

580
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: then wrapped in the bags and was anything cleaned up afterwards?

581
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: Because it doesn't matter. Look, even if you're shot in

582
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: the head with a we'll go back to the pellet rifle.

583
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: If you're shot in the head with a pellet rifle,

584
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: you're going to bleed. It's probably not going to break

585
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: the skull, but it's going to break the scalp. And

586
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 1: we go back to the thing I always talked about,

587
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: how vascular the head is, You're going to bleed some.

588
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: So where did this actually happen in the home? Was

589
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: he contained in the bathtub and had it been rented down?

590
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: Where was there evidence of bloody claws around? And who

591
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: facilitated this? Because again, if you're a burglar, which you

592
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: know by this time, the police are thinking that this

593
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: is a load of bull crap, Because with burglaries, unless

594
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: you're going in to look for something specific and you

595
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: know where it's located, they're going to participate in something

596
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: called rifling. That means that they'll rifle through the desk drawers,

597
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 1: that'll throw them all aside, kitchen cabinets, everything, because nothing

598
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: in that house has any value to them other than

599
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 1: those things that they're looking for, money, jewelry, drugs, anything

600
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: like that. Other than that, they don't care about the

601
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 1: pennant that your mama passed down to you. They don't

602
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: care about that unless it's entrusted with diamonds.

603
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 3: And so I'm not kidding. I don't please, I'm not

604
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 3: trying to offend anyone. But I missed it, okay when

605
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 3: in doing this story, Yeah, I missed the entire idea

606
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 3: that in order to believe her story, you have to

607
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 3: believe that two burglars came in there, shot a guy

608
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 3: in the head and then wrapped him up in a quill,

609
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 3: wrapped him up in a garbage bag, you tape took

610
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 3: him to the very back of the house because they

611
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 3: were not in any kind of hurry at all to

612
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 3: steal everything and get out of there. I mean, that's

613
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,879
Speaker 3: what you actually have to believe to believe her story. Yeah,

614
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 3: where if you're gonna kill somebody in a robbery, you're

615
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 3: gonna kill them. They're gonna die where they sit, and

616
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,399
Speaker 3: you're gonna grab stuff and run and run.

617
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: You know why, why are you going to go to

618
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: all this trouble? That's why this makes this so absurd.

619
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: The police would have to so buy in to this narrative,

620
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: hook line and sinker that they're going to throw all

621
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: common sense and reasoning out out the door. When it

622
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: comes to what miss Frasier is laying down. And of

623
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: course in this case, they determined that this is not

624
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: only was she fraudulent in trying to steal this old

625
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 1: man's money, you know from you know, from a life

626
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 1: that was spent that got him too retirement. Might I

627
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: might I add, but she, she, the whole the whole

628
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: scenario was fraudulent everything before them. And this is truly

629
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: in the pure sense, what we refer to as a

630
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: staged as a stage to death. This is something other

631
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: than the way it appears. And isn't it interesting You

632
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: can have a staged homicide that's actually a result of

633
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: the homicide. Most of the time when we're talking about staging,

634
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,479
Speaker 1: we'll talk about suicide homicides that are made to look

635
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: like suicides. That's the most common thing. But here you

636
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: have a staged homicide that was actually a homicide, and

637
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 1: she tried to make it look like someone else committed

638
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: the homicide. And she went to such a great length

639
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: that she decided to shoot herself with the same weapon,

640
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 1: by the way, that was owned by this man. And

641
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: he had many weapons in his house, had he had weapons,

642
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: he had cash, he had other things in that whole,

643
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 1: none of those items that were taken away, but one

644
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: of the things that was really glaring in this case,

645
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: and I think probably at the end of the day,

646
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: tells the tale. One thing that they did find in

647
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,959
Speaker 1: that home that was destroyed and it was lying about

648
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 1: on the ground or images of miss Frazier.

649
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 2: Mister white Belt together.

650
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks