1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: So I really don't like the word diet. That word, 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: to me is just so negative and it's just, you know, 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: the thoughts that come with that word are like deprivation, starving, 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: and just not getting to have anything. That was the 5 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: voice of a YouTuber named Stephanie Rose. Stephanie posts this 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: video almost four years ago about how she lost fifty 7 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: pounds in five months, and pretty early on in the 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: video she has basically a disclaimer about her weight lost story. 9 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: Stephanie goes on to say that even though she lost weight, 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: she didn't really diet. I like to use the word 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,279 Speaker 1: journey because for me, this wasn't really a diet. I 12 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: didn't really diet. This was more of a lifestyle change 13 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: and a journey to become healthy overall, just saying, you know, 14 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: I like the word journey. The word diet is very little, 15 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: very don't like dieting. Stephanie sa is that to lose weight, 16 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: she started eating healthier, but she still didn't want to 17 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: call that a diet. Even though eating healthier is part 18 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: of dieting. Still, dieting sounded bad to her. Negative. It 19 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: reminded her of suffering, and she didn't want to deprive 20 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 1: herself or starve herself. She just wanted to lose weight 21 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: and feel confident again. And Stephanie is not the only 22 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: person fed up with diets. It's this funny trend I 23 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: noticed recently. People aren't really using the word diet anymore, 24 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: even when what they're talking about is definitely dieting. Like 25 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: this British personal trainer named James Smith. He writes this 26 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: whole book called Not a Diet Book. It was alish 27 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: in early on his website. Jam Smith calls himself a 28 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: disruptor of the billion dollar diet industry, but he also 29 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: says that among the things the book will help people 30 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: do is change bad habits and lose fat. It's called 31 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 1: not diet books. It's not. It's more of an empowering book, 32 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: an education book, a liberation book to you fully understand 33 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: the things that you need to so the rather you 34 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: work in with your diet, your diet works for you. 35 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: What I'm hearing here is the not a diet book 36 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: is actually a diet book. One more example. There's another 37 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: personal trainer. This one is a woman named Lucy Bergen. 38 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: She gained some weight during the pandemic, like a lot 39 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: of us did. Then she starts working out intensely for 40 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: a competition, and as part of that, she takes a 41 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: photo of herself every single day. Lucy ends up putting 42 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: all the photos together in a video. She's wearing the 43 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: same outfit in each photo. It's sort of a rust 44 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: colored bikini, and there's a calendar in the background with 45 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: exces over the dates. In the video, you can see 46 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,679 Speaker 1: the ex's stack up on the calendar as time passes. 47 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: Six months of weight loss fly by in about thirty seconds, 48 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: and sure enough, as that happens, you can also see 49 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: Lucy's body changing over time. She drops about thirty pounds. 50 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: In the beginning of the video, Lucy looks unhappy, she's 51 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: grabbing her stomach and shooting the camera a thumbs down. 52 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: By the end, she looks thinner. She's also dyed her 53 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: hair at some point from brown to blonde. It makes 54 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: her look almost like a different person. The whole video 55 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: is kind of like a live action before and after photo, 56 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: and people love before and after photos, so maybe you 57 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: can guess what happened when Lucy posted the video on 58 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: the internet this morning on Take It Off Today, an 59 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: incredible transformation On TikTok her weight loss video went viral 60 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: with twelve million views. The Today Show has Lucy on 61 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: as a guest. They asked her what were you thinking 62 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: when you took these photos each day? And she says, 63 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: I just get to find myself. That it was a 64 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: short term goal. It wasn't a diet. It was a 65 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: lifestyle change and that's what's so important. And I loved 66 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: you hear that it wasn't a diet. Lucy last weight 67 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: by working out and changing what she ate, but not 68 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: a diet, a lifestyle change. I reached out to Stephanie 69 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: James and Lucy about all this, but they didn't provide 70 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: any comment for this episode. There's a reason everyone is 71 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: shying away from using the word diet lately. After hundreds 72 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: of years of dieting, people have suddenly grown tired of it. 73 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: Diets are a drag and they don't work so well, 74 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: so we're questioning them more than ever. Dieting has become 75 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: kind of a bad word, the d word. But somehow, 76 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: no matter how hard we try to ban it from 77 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: our collective vocabularies, we still can't seem to get away 78 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: from dieting. We're still trying to lose weight and show 79 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: off our before and after photos and tell people our 80 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: secrets to success. We're just following a non diet to 81 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: do it and refusing to fuss up that it is 82 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: actually a diet. Company is are getting in on the 83 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: action too. One of the most prominent examples is now, 84 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: a popular new weight loss app that's been called weight 85 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:15,239 Speaker 1: Watchers for millennials. Newon says it uses psychology to help 86 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: people build new, healthier habits. But that's not why we're 87 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: talking about Noon right now. We're talking about Noon because 88 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: new actually describes itself in its ads as you guessed, 89 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: it not a diet. It's different. It's something that I 90 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 1: can actually live with if I wouldn't even call it 91 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: a diet. In this episode, I'm going to get into 92 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: why people are so done with diets, or at least 93 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: done with calling them diets anyway. The diet backlash starts 94 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: with one simple fact diets aren't fun. But there's more 95 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: going on here too. I'm also going to look at 96 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: how companies in the huge and very profitable diet industry 97 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: are responding, like new which is selling dieting without actually 98 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: calling it dieting. Are they just tricking us? I'm Bloomberg 99 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: News Health reporter em A Court and from the Prognosis podcast, 100 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: this is losing. So the word diet has gotten a 101 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: bad reputation. Twenty years ago, the South Beach Diet became 102 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: a multi platform, multimillion dollar phenomenon with a book that 103 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: had the word diet on it in huge block letters. Today, 104 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: fewer people are buying diet books, and fewer diet books 105 00:07:56,040 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 1: are making bestseller lists, according to data from NPD E 106 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: Book Scan and USA Today company is selling weight loss meanwhile, 107 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: are working over time to assure people that they are 108 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: anything but a diet. If you're counting calories, or cutting carbs, 109 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: or generally changing how you eat to lose weight, that's 110 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: a diet. And there are lots of reasons to take 111 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: issue with dieting, especially the fact that most people really 112 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: can't maintain weight loss long term. But the word diet, 113 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: that's not exactly the issue. So I don't people want 114 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 1: to diet anymore? I put the question to Darren Cipher, 115 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: who is a food and beverage industry analysts for the 116 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 1: Market Research Company and p D Group. Well, simply put, 117 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: dieting is not fun and eating is Darren's right. Dieting 118 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: is not fun. And in many cases it could drive 119 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: you crazy and not literally, but yeah, I could do 120 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: some interesting things with your moods. People think of dieting 121 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: now and they think of punishment, like our YouTuber Stephanie 122 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: Rose said earlier, But dieting used to be well, maybe 123 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: not fun, but trendy. People used to all go on 124 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: the same diets and complain about them at parties. It 125 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: was like a group activity. Somewhere along the line, though, 126 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: things shifted. NPD group has found that interest in dieting 127 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: has been declining of American adults say they're on a 128 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: diet today compared with and at one point about a 129 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: decade ago, as few as twenty of people were dieting, 130 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: and Darren says people aren't just interested in how their 131 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: bodies look anymore, they're also interested in how they feel. 132 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: This notion of just feeling like your well is becoming 133 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: much stronger and much more important with consumers because it's 134 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: not just about the physical anymore. It's also about the mental. Wealthy, 135 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: and it's not just the dieting isn't fun. Ideas about 136 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 1: what people's bodies should look like are becoming a bit 137 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: more inclusive, especially for women. I've always been battling this 138 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: idea that if I was skinnier, if I looked exactly 139 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: the way I wanted to look, then so many of 140 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: my problems would go away and I would just be happier. 141 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: When the ideal body is portrayed as skinny, people try 142 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: to lose weight. But the bodies we see are changing 143 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: at least a little. People in bigger bodies are getting 144 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: featured on the covers of magazines, in TV shows, on 145 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: social media, and even on some high fashion runways where 146 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: ultra thin models have long been the norm. The early 147 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 1: Internet played a big role here, helping activists in the 148 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: fat acceptance movement get the word out about their cause 149 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 1: and use tools like blogging to build communities of like 150 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: minded people. It's called the body positive movement. Body except 151 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: in stemmed out of that, and it kind of widens 152 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: the scope to um people of all racist gender expressions 153 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: sizes wildly. Eventually, culture started to catch up. In two 154 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: thousand four, for example, the soap brand Dove made huge 155 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: waves with its campaign for Real Beauty. One of its 156 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: most well known ads featured an artist drawing women, first 157 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: based only on how they described themselves, and then based 158 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: on another person's description. When the sketches were displayed side 159 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: by side, it showed that the women didn't see themselves 160 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: very accurately. Do you think you're more beautiful than you? Say? Yeah? 161 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: Companies began realizing they might actually sell more products to people, 162 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: especially women, by casting models and bigger bodies and expanding 163 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: the sizes they carry, and media has been changing too. 164 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: She's already the first curving model to land the cover 165 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: of the Sports Illustrated Swim Student issue, and now it 166 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: seems she's ready for world domination she being the model 167 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: Ashley Graham. This happened in TV shows like Girls recast 168 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: the archetype of a female lead, with Lena Dunham sporting 169 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: crop tops alongside what she herself has described as belly rolls. 170 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: Platforms with no gatekeepers like TikTok and YouTube have throw 171 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: us even more types of bodies into the spotlight. Today, 172 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: celebrities look a little less like the celebrities many of 173 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: us grew up seeing, and some of them, like the 174 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: actress Jamila Jamil, are even making names for themselves by 175 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: calling out diet culture for being toxic. The diet industry 176 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: can just off, I'm going off to the diet and 177 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: details industry, and it doesn't exist anymore. Despite all this change, 178 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 1: much of popular culture still looks the same in lots 179 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: of ways. The thin ideal remains incredibly prevalent. But we 180 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: are seeing bigger butts and underwear ads and even stretch 181 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,079 Speaker 1: marks and plus size models on the covers of magazines. 182 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: We're all perfectly imperfect. Body positivity always and forever. The 183 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: authentic and real us focus on how you feel. Forget 184 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: what other people say. You are enough, exactly as you are. 185 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 1: You don't need to change. And this may sound like 186 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: some kind of motivational speech, but it's actually an ad 187 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: part of the underwear company aries body positivity campaign. Underwear 188 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: companies used to be practically the CEO of wanting us 189 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: to change our bodies, but these days they've got a 190 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: new line, except yourself the way you are. Maybe some 191 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: of this is an increasing recognition that dieting doesn't work 192 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: so well, especially among younger people, people like me who 193 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: saw their parents diet and diet and diet some more 194 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: without ever really getting anywhere. We're also a lot more 195 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: aware of the dangers of diets these days, dangers like 196 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: eating disorders. Today we're talking about body image. According to 197 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: the National Institute of Mental Health, one in five women 198 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: struggle with an eating disorder or disordered. Eating. Restricting how 199 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: much food you eat is actually a very common risk 200 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: factor for developing and eating disorder. People are talking much 201 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: more about these things than they used to, so there's 202 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: a lot at play here. We've finally realized that dieting 203 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: isn't fun. People want to feel good instead and be healthy, 204 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: which is more than a number on a scale. Body 205 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: ideals are changing, becoming a bit more inclusive, and there's 206 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: way more awareness about eating disorders, which are a risk 207 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: of dieting. All this stuff sounds good, right, positive, We're 208 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: turning away from diets and more towards feeling good and 209 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: being healthy. But the diet industry had an answer for that, 210 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: and it was wellness. Diets are out and wellness is in. 211 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: In the same way that people used to all go 212 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: on the South Beach diet together, Now they're meditating and 213 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: taking over priced vitamins, sporting apple watches, browsing Goop's website, 214 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: maybe even drinking those weird wellness shops they sell by 215 00:15:54,920 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: the checkout at Whole Foods. Dieting is restrictive by its 216 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: very nature, but wellness. Wellness means pursuing good health, and 217 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: that's pretty vague. Wellness can be anything, anything you want 218 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: it to mean, or more realistically, anything marketers want it 219 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: to mean. Wellness can even mean dieting. Tried now and 220 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: I lost ten pounds, which to me was huge. Remember now, 221 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: the weight loss app I mentioned earlier now very much 222 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: fits into this trend. Here's how it works. New maps 223 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: out how many weeks or months it will take to 224 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: reach your goal weight, and then new tries to use 225 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: psychology and wellness concepts like mindfulness to help you eat 226 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: differently and also change the way you approach eating. When 227 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: I went to the doctors, it was just a very 228 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: cut and dry move more eat less, that's it. Noon 229 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: taught me. It was more about why I was eating. 230 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: That helped me take the first few steps and find 231 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: that new path. You log your meals on the app, 232 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: and it teaches you to recognize and eat less caloric foods. 233 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: But Noon is not a diet, or at least that's 234 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 1: what it says. Here's how NEWM advertises itself online. These 235 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: are all direct quotes, by the way, But now stop 236 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: the yoyo dining. Now stop dining get lifelong results. I'm 237 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: focusing on Noon here because it's a high profile window 238 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: into this trend. Noon and other companies understand that the 239 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: culture has changed. Surviving as a weight loss company in 240 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: a world that at least wants to be done with 241 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: diets means taking a new approach. To understand how Noom 242 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: got here, we have to start at the very beginning. 243 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 1: For now, that's two thousand eight, Ardem Pakov and S. J. Jong, 244 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: who are now the company's president and CEO. We're very 245 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: interested in helping people get healthier. The first product they built, 246 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: in fact, wasn't a weight loss program, but technology for 247 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: an exercise bike. Get Ready one week, Put the bike 248 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: and other early approaches looked promising at first, but then 249 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: Artem and say you realized most people don't really exercise consistently, 250 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: so how many people could their bike really help anyway? 251 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: And it seemed like a broader issue that people don't 252 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: really make the kinds of changes that would improve their health. 253 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: One thing seemed like the exceptions that rule. Though. That's right, 254 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: weight loss people just don't act if you say, hey, 255 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: let's get you healthier, but they do. However, when the 256 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: question is how do I lose this weight. You can 257 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 1: practically see the gears and Artem and Sager's minds turning 258 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: weight loss. Weight loss is their way in, it's their 259 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: business opportunity, and that gets you then to start caring 260 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,239 Speaker 1: about what you're eating, what you're exercising. You know how 261 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: you're exercising, whether you're sleeping right, stressing right. Many of 262 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: the things that help people lose weight are also good 263 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 1: for them in other words, of course, that isn't always true, 264 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: and before you know it, that sort of becomes to 265 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: all consuming thing that really helps people get healthier Holistically, 266 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: Artem likes to call weight loss trojan horse, if you will, 267 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: to people's health. What he means is that weight loss 268 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: can get people to care about their health. Weight Loss, 269 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: in his mind, isn't the goal. It's a means to 270 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: an end. In the end is being healthier overall, not 271 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: just thinner. Of course, we also know from research that 272 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: people can improve their health without getting thinner, but this 273 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: is how Artem thinks about it. It's worth pointing out 274 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: too that his background is actually in software engineering. He's 275 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: not a doctor or anything. In fact, newm is kind 276 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: of a classic Silicon Valley story these days. Of tech 277 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: entrepreneurs trying to disrupt the health care space. But remember 278 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: there are tons of weight loss programs out there. Newm 279 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: saw an opportunity to set itself apart with psychology, the 280 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: why and how of losing weight. Most diets are lacking 281 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: what what they really lack are the actual mechanism, the how. 282 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: They're telling you what to do, but they're not telling 283 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 1: you how to do it. And that's just like having 284 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: a car without wheels, where it won't go anywhere. Because 285 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: the hard part is the how Noon launched their weight 286 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: loss app in and what Artom just described. It's an 287 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: approach that has really worked for now the app has 288 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: become really popular. How popular well, Noon told us that 289 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: it has millions of users, but they wouldn't be any 290 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: more specific. A little tidbit about that name. It's actually 291 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 1: moon spelled backwards. Artem says. It's because the moon is 292 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: there at night, shining like a guiding light when your 293 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: willpower is running low. And it sounded very calm and 294 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: peaceful and sort of psychologically oriented, so we wanted to 295 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: people to come in and sort of have this more 296 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: calming effects, sort of like an ulm, right, or the 297 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: moon indeed, maybe you're wondering how new works in practice. 298 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 1: Each time you open up the app, Noon gives you 299 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: little articles to read and quizzes to do. That's supposed 300 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: to be how you learn and change your habits. I 301 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: actually tried new Mount for this episode. So as an 302 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: example today, the app had me set a shorter term 303 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: weight loss goal that would actually be achievable. Here's a 304 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: little snippet of that lesson. So your short term smart 305 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 1: goal could be to limit yourself to a dessert every 306 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: other day. There was another lesson about making your calorie 307 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 1: budget last. It's simple planning. The easiest way to stay 308 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,719 Speaker 1: within your calorie budget without going hungry is to plan ahead. 309 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: Shall we design you a plan to tap below to 310 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: get started planning, like thinking about whether you prefer large 311 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: meals or snacking that kind of thing, and then break 312 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: down your calories on a per meal and per snack basis. 313 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: Then I took another lesson about how to prioritize your 314 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: goals based on what's actually realistic. The final one was 315 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: about how to buy yourself more calories to eat in 316 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: a day. Did you know you can increase your calorie 317 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: budget every single day? It's not magic. It's exercise, but 318 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,199 Speaker 1: do please let us know if you have found a 319 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: magical way to burn calories. Remember how Artem said earlier 320 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: that diets tell you to eat differently, but they don't 321 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: tell you how, and so without that, it's like a 322 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: car without wheels. There's a car, but you cannot drive 323 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: it anywhere without it having wheels. These lessons plus things 324 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: like tracking food weigh ins and working with new coaches, 325 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: these are the how part the car wheels that are 326 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: supposed to help get you moving. You might have noticed 327 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 1: when we were going through the lessons before that the 328 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: tone of new is friendly, virgin on goofy person. Really, 329 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: I found the tone a bit condescending. It came off 330 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: like pop psychology. Like one of the questions at the 331 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: beginning asked what do you need to succeed in weight loss? 332 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: It was a multiple choice format and I chose exercise 333 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: for thirty minutes a day. Nope, the right answer. Simply 334 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: believe I was selling some friends about it over dinner 335 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: one day. Pizza Noom's app would call it a red 336 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: food and salad a green food. My friends I am 337 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 1: called it the goop of weight loss. It kind of 338 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: is down to the made up sounding name Goop, which 339 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 1: is the actress Gwyneth Paltrow's wellness company is known for 340 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 1: making questionable claims about their products having health benefits. Back 341 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 1: to Noon. Behind all the psychology, nom is kind of 342 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: your typical weight loss app. New has a food log 343 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 1: with a calorie budget. NEWM breaks food down into red, yellow, 344 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: and green categories. Yes, like traffic light colors. And you 345 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 1: can use the app to track things like exercise and 346 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: your weight. But somehow though it's not a diet. I 347 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 1: put that question directly to artem Pedacough. There's a big 348 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: difference between a typical diet and a weight loss program. 349 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: I'm listening a lot of the diets that we're talking about, 350 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: and then people have experience with our things that are 351 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: short term that are fads, you know, something like raspberry 352 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: keytones or cabbage soup or and our prescriptive eat this, 353 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: not that, And NEWM doesn't believe in any of those things. 354 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: So when they say new isn't a diet, what they 355 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: really mean is NEWM isn't a fad diet. But that's 356 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: not what the marketing copy says. It says not a 357 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: diet period. Everyone who goes on NOUM goes on it 358 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 1: to lose weight, that's what it's for. This is Tracy Mann, 359 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: a psychologist who runs a health and eating lab at 360 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: the University of Minnesota. I think people who go on it, 361 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: I believe that it's using different, sort of more scientific methods, 362 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean that you'll lose the weight and 363 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: keep it off. When I asked NOM about evidence of 364 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: its long term weight loss results, a spokeswoman pointed me 365 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 1: to studies showing people can lose about five of their 366 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: body weight or more, a medically significant amount. Those were 367 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 1: only a year long, though. NEUM is also working on 368 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: a two year study that should finish next year, and 369 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: it says that its methods have been studied and it's 370 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,919 Speaker 1: always trying to find the best way to help people 371 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: back to the non die a trend. Tracy says that 372 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: this is the biggest change she's seen in the almost 373 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 1: thirty years she's been working in this area. She believes 374 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: that people are finally waking up to the problems with dieting. 375 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: Something has sort of seeped into people's minds about diets 376 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: not working. But again, people are not exactly giving up 377 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: on weight loss here and so The change isn't to 378 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: not diet changes that people change how they talk about 379 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 1: dieting and don't use that word. This isn't exactly the 380 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: kind of change Tracy wants to see happen. She actually 381 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:43,679 Speaker 1: finds it really frustrating to completely superficial rebranding. It's almost 382 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: a trick that brings me to another point about what 383 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: NEWM is trying to do here. Artam told me that 384 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: NEWMS started off in wheat loss because they believe that's 385 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: how you get people to play an active role in 386 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: their health. But if health is really the goal of 387 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 1: new why track calories at all? Why put food into 388 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 1: categories like red, which everyone knows means stop. Here's what 389 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: Andreas Michaelidis Nemes chief of psychology, had to say about that. 390 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: Andreas is a psychologist. Things like our our calorie trackers, 391 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: and uh, you know those are meant to Those are 392 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 1: meant to just increase your awareness of your daily habits, 393 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,919 Speaker 1: increase your awareness of of what you're eating. It's you 394 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: don't have to log every single meal to be in 395 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,959 Speaker 1: the program. It's not a mandatory log or you know, 396 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: that's it. It's not about the food that you love 397 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: is what I'm trying to say, because that screams to 398 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: me just like diet. Okay, But Newmes app does encourage 399 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: you to log your food, Like when I pull it 400 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: up right now, it's telling me you haven't logged any 401 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: meals today. And isn't the whole point of logging your 402 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: meals to become more aware of the food you eat 403 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: so you make healthier choices or at least less caloric ones. 404 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: Newm has also been criticized for putting people on a 405 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: twelve hundred calorie diet, which is really on the low 406 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: end in terms of how many calories a person should 407 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: be eating. Noum says it used to put some women 408 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: on a twelve hundred calorie diet. It was the minimum 409 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: amount of daily calories a person using the app could get, 410 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: but last year it increased that amount by about ten 411 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: Newm says that although that number is safe and effective, 412 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: they changed it after feedback from customers. Then there's the 413 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: traffic light system for foods Andrews says they use it 414 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: because it's simple and people like simple. Newmes. Whole thing 415 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: is psychology, remember, and a traffic light system is easy 416 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: to keep in mind when people go to the grocery 417 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: store or make themselves lunch at home. As for red 418 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: means top, this is what Andreas says about that maybe 419 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: some people do we have that association, but it's very 420 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: clear that it's not a do not eat this. In fact, 421 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: Andreas says red means eat less of this if you 422 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: want to lose weight, and to be fair, Noon does 423 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: make that clear in the app that red doesn't mean 424 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: cut chocolate cake out of your life forever, which is 425 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: good because chocolate cake is delicious. But it's worth pointing 426 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: out that this system doesn't exist in a vacuum. We 427 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: lived our whole lives getting cues about food from all 428 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: over the place. When I log a red food on Noon, 429 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: I feel like a bad person, like I screwed up. 430 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: And maybe I might have felt that way anyway neum 431 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: or not, But NOWM isn't exactly changing the narrative, And 432 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: I think most people are gonna try to avoid those 433 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: red foods and maybe twitch a little when they see 434 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: a red food in the office pantry. Again, that's a 435 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: diet thing. Everyone knows. Red means stop. We do talk about, 436 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: by the way, you know, I always like transparency. We 437 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: do talk about. Is the red color the optimal one. 438 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: We've so far stuck because it's a traffic light. The 439 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: simplicity of it has so far been overriding it. Those 440 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: are exactly the kinds of things that we sort of 441 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:29,479 Speaker 1: spend hours discussing internally. What's the perfect color for it? 442 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: And is there another? Is there something else we can do? 443 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: And you might see us change that in the future 444 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: to lower that confusion. What other color are you thinking 445 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: about replacing it with? No, that's a that's a that's 446 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: a I think it trade secret. Noon told me in 447 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: July that it is in the process of changing the 448 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: system from red to orange. Look. Noon is, at the 449 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: end of the day, a company. It was started by 450 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: entrepreneurs who brought technology to the world of weight loss, 451 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: putting the whole psychology thing aside. What makes this app 452 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: a good business is the technology here. You can put 453 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: a lot of people through a standardized program relatively little expense. 454 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: But calling a weight loss program anything but a diet 455 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: just seems disingenuous, like gas lighting, like new is trying 456 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: to trick us like a trojan horse. I asked Artem 457 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: about that when we talked, Okay, I think it's a 458 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: it's complicated. People have all kinds of feelings about that word, 459 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: a k. A diet, and have all kinds of associations 460 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: with anything and have strong feelings about them in terms 461 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 1: of either succeeding or failing or uh, you know, are 462 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: having mixed success, and so you know, it's it's sort 463 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: of a contentious word. So I think we have to 464 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: be very careful when we use it. UM. I think 465 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: going back to UM, you know, going back to the 466 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 1: basics and the sort of the core principles here is 467 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: we think a lot of people are What I feel 468 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: the worst about is a lot of people blame themselves 469 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: for their lack of success and they said I was 470 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: given a diet and I failed. In other words, people 471 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: have had bad experiences with diets. The word brings up 472 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: feelings of guilt and shame, so we're battling that perception 473 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: a little bit. That makes sense as a company, you 474 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: wouldn't want people to have a negative association with your 475 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: product right off the bat, But logging a red food 476 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: in the new map brings up feelings of guilt and 477 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: shame too. Without having a more in depth understanding of 478 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: the actual program, it's easy to say, oh, it's a diet, 479 00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 1: because that's the category that I'm taking a picture or 480 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: of and putting it into that bucket, and that, you know, 481 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,479 Speaker 1: that kind of feels good. But the truth is is 482 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 1: that we don't know if the category of what we 483 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: do exists out there with other kinds of things. We really, really, 484 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: really believe that this is behavior change, not a diet. This, 485 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,800 Speaker 1: I have to admit, is where they lost me. Like, sure, 486 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: I'll concede that people have a tendency to sort things 487 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: into categories, but I think it's pretty clear why people 488 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: are sorting this particular program into this particular category. In fact, 489 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: NUMA has encouraged it. Since I started New, I've lost 490 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: seventy pounds. I've lost ninety seven pounds with New I 491 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 1: lost on New. We've all seen these kinds of ads 492 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,760 Speaker 1: a million times before. They're as much of a tired 493 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: cliche as before and after photos or diets claiming to 494 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: bring some original innovation to the table that no other 495 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: diet has ever done before. NEWM is capitalizing on that, 496 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: embracing it, not rejecting it, and NEWM is also capitalizing 497 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 1: on the diet backlash at the same time. Either way, 498 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 1: NEWM wins so If new isn't a diet, what is it? 499 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: I pose the question to artem. It is a behavior 500 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: change program that helps you take control all of your 501 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 1: health through understanding what's up here. He's pointing to his head. Here. 502 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: It's a holistic program. But let's you do that. Notice 503 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: that he didn't say the words weight loss at all, 504 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 1: even though that's why people come to this new program 505 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: to lose weight. NEWM even has you put in a 506 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: goal weight when you sign up. I'm not the only person, 507 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: by the way, who takes issue with how NEWM describes itself, 508 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,359 Speaker 1: and specifically with the company's claim that it is not 509 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 1: a diet. Noon came under pressure about this pretty recently 510 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: and ended up responding we'll talk more about that in 511 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: a moment, but first, it isn't just new Nothing is 512 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 1: a diet anymore. Take weight Watchers, the iconic weight loss 513 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: company that's been around for about sixty years. Listen to 514 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: what Gary Foster, the company's chief scientific officer, had to say. Well, 515 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,720 Speaker 1: we started to hear around two thousand sixteen, but heard 516 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: even clearly and more consistently in two thousand eighteen, was 517 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: that when people were thinking about their overall wellness and 518 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 1: particularly weight in that context that they're thinking had changed 519 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: that formerly they were ready to metaphorically leave their life 520 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: to lose weight. They were willing to do draconian owners 521 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: things like always eat this, never eat that, eat at 522 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: this time of day, but not at that time of day, 523 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: eat high, this low that. Gary also calls this kind 524 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:08,479 Speaker 1: of mindset dieters prison. And that is how people think 525 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: about dieting right, not just as punishment, but as something 526 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,879 Speaker 1: you go do and then come back and resume your 527 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 1: real life. That's a diet myth we've talked about before. 528 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: The South Beach diet that was so popular in the 529 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 1: early two thousand's was structured like that, you finished it 530 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: and went back to your life. But the company then 531 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: known as Weight Watchers was hearing something different from people, 532 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 1: and they said, I'm not willing to leave my life 533 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 1: to lose weight, and you've got to address the whole 534 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: met So no longer am I willing to eat in 535 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,400 Speaker 1: wacky ways. I want to come out of this program 536 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 1: eating more healthy, not less healthy. I want to come 537 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: out more active, not less active. I want to come 538 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: out with a more helpful mindset. And I'm want to 539 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: come out sleeping better, so they were very clear that 540 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 1: weight loss is still an outcome they were seeking, but 541 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: they wanted to do it within a wellness ecosystem. We 542 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: Watchers took that to heart. The company rebranded to ww 543 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: literally taking the word weight out of its name. Gary 544 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,880 Speaker 1: says the name change reflected something deeper, a pivot to 545 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 1: focusing on overall health, not just weight loss. At one 546 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: point when we were talking, Gary mentioned that people can 547 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: feel like weight loss is punishment for something they've done wrong. 548 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: It's almost like I have to go and make up 549 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: for my past transgressions. That's diet talk. So I had 550 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 1: to ask the obvious question, does ww call itself a diet? No, 551 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: absolutely not. We were just talking with Gary Foster, chief 552 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:04,800 Speaker 1: scientific officer at ww. WW formerly known as Weight Watchers, 553 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: is arguably one of the best known weight loss programs around. 554 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: But Gary told us that the program is not a diet, 555 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: and remember Noon doesn't call itself a diet either. In fact, 556 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: NOME says pretty clearly in its advertising that it's not 557 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: a diet. People don't love this, Like I said before, 558 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: it feels like gas lighting. It also raises some other issues. 559 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: People who have eating disorders or a history of them 560 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,319 Speaker 1: might come to NOM thinking it's a safe space, like 561 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:44,320 Speaker 1: NOM itself saying it's not a diet. Reactions to NEWMS 562 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:48,799 Speaker 1: advertising finally boiled over earlier this year. The whole thing 563 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: seems to have been sparked by a tweet. Every new 564 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 1: MAD is like, We're not a diet, We're an eating disorder. 565 00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: That was Elena Stone, a twenty eight year old in St. Louis, Missouri, 566 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: reading that aforementioned tweet. Elena wrote it and what she 567 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:11,800 Speaker 1: wrote hit a nerve. Elena's tweet racked up around a 568 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: hundred thirty five thousand likes and ten thou retweets. Was 569 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: just digging constantly all day noon, started trending on Twitter 570 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,719 Speaker 1: after that, and the company actually ended up responding. But 571 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 1: first Elena's story. It turns out she had been hearing 572 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:35,360 Speaker 1: a lot of new mads all over the place, YouTube 573 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: podcasts many times a day. It felt inescapable and actually, 574 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: she says, she's never used now, but a close family 575 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 1: member has what really uh got me upsets um. They 576 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 1: always start with We're not a diet, but they absolutely are. 577 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 1: Elena refers to herself as fat. She's used apps similar 578 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,279 Speaker 1: to Neon in the past. Like my fitness pal, but 579 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,920 Speaker 1: eventually she became pretty firmly anti diet. It's, you know, 580 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 1: for me, been a lifetime of being told what to eat, 581 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: and I just don't want to do that anymore. I 582 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 1: love food, I love cooking, I love baking, um, I 583 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: love cheese, I love coffee. You know, I don't want 584 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: to be drinking up an eighth of a cup of 585 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: black coffee and choking down iceberg lettuce. Like that's not 586 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:31,400 Speaker 1: a life to me. The weave of anti NEWM sentiment 587 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:36,799 Speaker 1: that Elena's tweet unleashed online didn't escape the attention of 588 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:41,560 Speaker 1: new The company soon published a post on its website 589 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,840 Speaker 1: in response, and you can probably guess what it said, 590 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 1: which is to say that its program is more than 591 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 1: just a diet. Now also said in the post that 592 00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:01,800 Speaker 1: it takes eating disorders seriously and has several safeguards in place. 593 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: People can't enter a below normal b m I as 594 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: their goal weight or join if they report an active 595 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 1: eating disorder or a history of disordered eating. NEWM also 596 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,880 Speaker 1: says coaches are trained to spot issues users might be having. 597 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: So okay, we're over diets because they're not fun when 598 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: people lose weight. Now it's a lifestyle change, not a diet, 599 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:39,240 Speaker 1: and companies like NEWM and WW are marketing us these 600 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:45,759 Speaker 1: non diets too, but they sure sound a lot like diets. 601 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:52,799 Speaker 1: All the stuff does what's really going on here? At 602 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:57,319 Speaker 1: the surface, All this can seem like positive change. At 603 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 1: the very least, fad diets seemed to be a thing 604 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 1: of the past. People shouldn't be going to diet ors 605 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,920 Speaker 1: prison black coffee and iceberg lettuce. Isn't a life like 606 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 1: Alina said, Maybe we should be thinking about health more 607 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:16,840 Speaker 1: broadly than the scale, adding in exercise and eating our veggies, 608 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,799 Speaker 1: sleeping better. The problem is that we're over dieting in 609 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 1: name only. Remember that data from the Market Research Company 610 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:30,959 Speaker 1: and p D Group that interest in dieting is declining. Well. 611 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,480 Speaker 1: MPP Group also found that people still want to lose 612 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 1: weight even if they don't want to diet. What that 613 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 1: tells us is that we're not really over diets. Maybe 614 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:47,240 Speaker 1: we want to be, but we're not. And the reasons 615 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,760 Speaker 1: for that they're actually old reasons. They're the same reasons 616 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: diets have had a pull on us for hundreds of years. 617 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 1: Here's Peter Stearns, a history professor at George Mason University. 618 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,839 Speaker 1: We spoke to him in our second episode. I think 619 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,239 Speaker 1: partly we're hoping that this will be easier than it 620 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,920 Speaker 1: actually turns out to be. We humans love a quick fix, 621 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:14,759 Speaker 1: especially for something like wait that makes us uncomfortable. And 622 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,799 Speaker 1: then there are those other classic things that draw us 623 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,239 Speaker 1: to diets, like wanting to look good and wanting to 624 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: be healthier. It's a combination of a cultural and a 625 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 1: medical issue, and too much emphasis on either one or 626 00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 1: the other oversimplifies the problem. So will we ever actually 627 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 1: be done with diets or will diets always be with us? 628 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,880 Speaker 1: I put the question to Sabrina Strings, an associate professor 629 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:48,959 Speaker 1: of sociology at the University of California, Irvine, A scary thought. 630 00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:54,520 Speaker 1: Sabrina says that it's complicated. People are pushing back on dieting, 631 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,960 Speaker 1: but then there are others who are still restricting what 632 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,160 Speaker 1: they eat because they think it's better for them that 633 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:05,279 Speaker 1: they'll lose weight and be healthier. And so I think 634 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:10,360 Speaker 1: what we often want to see is straightforward progress, but 635 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,480 Speaker 1: life is a lot messier than that. And this is true, 636 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:17,440 Speaker 1: and we're talking about any form of oppression. As long 637 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,319 Speaker 1: as weight is important in society, there will be an 638 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:25,000 Speaker 1: opening for dieting, even if it's called a lifestyle change 639 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:29,360 Speaker 1: or wellness. And that makes sense because for all the 640 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 1: changes going on, there's still an intense focus on weight 641 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:37,160 Speaker 1: loss that we have in our culture. In fact, that's 642 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,799 Speaker 1: exactly what we're going to talk about in our next episode. 643 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,759 Speaker 1: We're going to tackle the big billion dollar question of 644 00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:48,280 Speaker 1: weight and health. After all, everyone knows that it's healthier 645 00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:54,640 Speaker 1: to be thinner, right right, Well, there's a lot more 646 00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 1: to it than that, and actually the evidence about weight 647 00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:02,680 Speaker 1: and health is a whole lot sketcher than advertised. We're 648 00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,399 Speaker 1: going to find out why the prevailing narrative isn't quite 649 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,160 Speaker 1: right and also what happens when someone dares to put 650 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,799 Speaker 1: out research undermining the narrative. And so there's just like 651 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:17,480 Speaker 1: this constant level of harassment, not just like a scientific discussion, 652 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,360 Speaker 1: which is what I would have expected, but more like insults. 653 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:29,400 Speaker 1: In short, things get nasty. Losing. It is written and 654 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:34,320 Speaker 1: reported by me em A Court and edited by Kristin V. Brown. 655 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:40,840 Speaker 1: Magnus Hendrickson is our senior producer, Stacy Wong our associate producer, 656 00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:46,080 Speaker 1: and Blake Maples, our audio engineer. Our theme was composed 657 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:51,520 Speaker 1: and performed by Hannis Brown. Thanks to francesco Leavy and Timnette. 658 00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,240 Speaker 1: Be sure to subscribe to Prognosis if you haven't already, 659 00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,400 Speaker 1: and if you like our show, please leave us a 660 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:02,960 Speaker 1: review that helps others find out about it. Thanks for listening, 661 00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:17,440 Speaker 1: See you next time, h