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Speaker 1: Hey, Sminty listeners, Bridget here your favorite parces. It's a

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Speaker 1: birthday coming up and guess what, y'all are all invited.

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Speaker 1: I'm hosting a birthday party in Washington, d C on Sunday,

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Speaker 1: March eleven, to benefit Thrive DC, an organization that fights homelessness.

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Speaker 1: Want a party with me? All you need to do

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Speaker 1: is to bring a box of heavy flow or overnight

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Speaker 1: maxipads or tampons to donate to a d C woman

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Speaker 1: experiencing homelessness. Look out for more deets on this Sminty Facebook, Twitter,

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Speaker 1: and Instagram channels, and I hope to see all there. Hey,

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Speaker 1: this is Bridget and you're listening the stuff I'm ever

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Speaker 1: told you, and yes, it does sound a little bit

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Speaker 1: strange to be saying that alone. First, a little housekeeping,

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Speaker 1: I want to thank all you sminthy listeners for speaking

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Speaker 1: with us during this transition. Emily will be missed so much.

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Speaker 1: In the spirit of radical transparency, I want to let

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Speaker 1: y'all all know that we're working on putting together something

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Speaker 1: great and people all love it going forward. In the meantime,

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Speaker 1: we're doing some experimenting here. It's Minty. You'll be hearing

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Speaker 1: from some new voices, some old voices, in a mix

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Speaker 1: of everything in between. So please let us know what

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Speaker 1: you think, what you like, what you don't like. It

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Speaker 1: will take it from there, and I'm so glad that

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Speaker 1: you are taking this journey with us. Speaking of voices,

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Speaker 1: if mine sounds a little bit nervous right now, that's

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Speaker 1: because I'm about to be joined in studio by none

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Speaker 1: other than miss Yard Lee Smith, who you might know

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Speaker 1: a little better as Lisa Being Simpson. That's right, y'all,

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Speaker 1: we've got Lisa s in the studio. In our series

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Speaker 1: Fictional Feminists, M and I unpacked some of our favorite

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Speaker 1: fictional feminist characters on the small and big screens, and

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Speaker 1: y'all really couldn't get enough of talking about Lisa Simpson.

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Speaker 1: If you didn't listen to that episode, here's a little

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Speaker 1: taste of how it went down. Right, Growing up, Lisa

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Speaker 1: was this figure who was allowed to be political and

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Speaker 1: activisty and um, but still was this like sweet, precocious

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Speaker 1: little girl. And it was sort of subtle the way

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Speaker 1: the writers wrote her in right. They didn't pigeonhole her

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Speaker 1: as an activist, but she her activism sort of came

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Speaker 1: out in everyday exchanges in a way that it truly

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Speaker 1: does in real life, you know what I mean. It's

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Speaker 1: just like having a woke kid. Yeah, you don't. People

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Speaker 1: don't really, at least people that I know, don't really

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Speaker 1: walk around, you know, um proclaiming they're that they're involved

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Speaker 1: in some sort of activist crusade. It just comes out

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Speaker 1: when you talk to them. And I think over the

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Speaker 1: years that we've gotten to know Lisa, it's just sort

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Speaker 1: of whether it's her, you know, vegetarianism. You know, when

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Speaker 1: Friends with Salad, Emily, is that a Lisa, that's a

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Speaker 1: Homer quote? You know, when Friends with Salad? You know,

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Speaker 1: when Friends with Salad? This is that you can unpack

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Speaker 1: as a vegan, you can unpack that whole episode. Are

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Speaker 1: you Gonna Marry a Carrot? Oh my god, You're pulling

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Speaker 1: all these like great quotes that I'm not picking up

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Speaker 1: at all. This is like my this was this is

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Speaker 1: a microclass of my whole life quoting the Simpsons and

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Speaker 1: people looking at me like I have three heads. Growing

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Speaker 1: up in Washington, d C. Yardley Smith was to tease

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Speaker 1: because of her voice. She got her first big break

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Speaker 1: when she was cast in the Broadway production of Tom

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Speaker 1: Stoppard's the real thing. When she auditioned for The Simpsons

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Speaker 1: in n she initially read for the role of Bart,

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Speaker 1: but the casting director thought her voice was too high,

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Speaker 1: giving her the part of Lisa instead. That's something I

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Speaker 1: can really identify with the Distinctiveness of Yardley's voice means

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Speaker 1: that all other voice actors on The Simpsons voice several characters.

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Speaker 1: Smith is actually banned from doing so because her voice

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Speaker 1: is just too specific. Like many women, Yardley saw her

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Speaker 1: professional pursuits as a means of achieving perfection and personal fulfillment.

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Speaker 1: She hoped that success would quiet the growing chorus of

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Speaker 1: her own internal insecurities, which she once called a bottomless

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Speaker 1: pit of wanting global adoration. I can just get the

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Speaker 1: world to adore me. Then I will feel better about

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Speaker 1: myself and all my insecurities will go away. Everybody will

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Speaker 1: adore me, and that must mean that I'm worthwhile, she

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Speaker 1: told Vanity Fair last month. Yardley's career has been unquestionably successful.

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Speaker 1: She won a Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Voiceover Performance

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Speaker 1: in but despite her massive success, Smith didn't always feel

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Speaker 1: fulfilled by her voice over work. As much as she

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Speaker 1: loves being Lisa Simpson to Smith, being a voice actor

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Speaker 1: wasn't being a quote real actor. It was his acting

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Speaker 1: from the neck up, as she put it. Like a

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Speaker 1: lot of women, Smith struggled with bolimia and in security

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Speaker 1: around her looks. In the nineties, she spent more than

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Speaker 1: forty dollars on plastic surgery, which he hope would help

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Speaker 1: her get more acting work. This really sounds like a

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Speaker 1: difficult time for Smith. She was aging out of playing

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Speaker 1: the daughter roles she had spent so much of her

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Speaker 1: career on, but her youthful voice and looks made mother

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Speaker 1: roles a challenge to Growing older helps Smith break out

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Speaker 1: of her cycle of self doubt. Turning forty helped her

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Speaker 1: let go of the arbitrary timeline of achieving her ideal

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Speaker 1: of success by a certain age. You know that classic

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Speaker 1: Simpsons episode when Lisa is devastated that her substitute teacher

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Speaker 1: and Mr Burnistrom is leaving. At the end of the episode,

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Speaker 1: Mr Burnistrom was getting out of train. Lisa runs alongside

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Speaker 1: the train to catch up with them to say goodbye.

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Speaker 1: He hands her note I'm gonna miss you. I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you what whenever you feel like you're alone and there's

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Speaker 1: nobody you can rely on this school. You need to know.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Mr. You are Lisa Simpson. The note reads,

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Speaker 1: Yardley told Vanity Fair that she actually never understood this

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Speaker 1: iconic scene until she understood herself. Your identity isn't your work.

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Speaker 1: Your identity isn't who you are professionally. Who you are

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Speaker 1: really comes from what's inside. Yardley says, I went, Oh,

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Speaker 1: my god, Oh you need is already inside of you.

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Speaker 1: To actually admit that it is such an admission of

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Speaker 1: the fact that I obviously didn't feel and still struggle

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Speaker 1: with the notion that everything I need is inside of me.

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Speaker 1: After this quick break, we'll hear from Yardly about this

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Speaker 1: AHA moment and about her work breaking everyone's favorite fictional

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Speaker 1: feminist to life. So Yardly, we're so so happy to

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Speaker 1: have you here today in studio, and we were just

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Speaker 1: talking about how Lisa Simpson really did sort of change

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Speaker 1: the lives of a lot of girls, con generation of

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Speaker 1: women and girls who could finally see themselves reflected on screen.

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Speaker 1: What is it like to have people tell you that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'd like to say, at least I don't

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Speaker 1: feel completely responsible because I always maintained and I'm thirty

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Speaker 1: three and third percent of the success of Lisa Simpson,

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Speaker 1: the other two thirds per site coming from the writers

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Speaker 1: and the animators. But I completely get it. Is really

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Speaker 1: all I can say. She's certainly one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: characters of all time, and I I would truly say

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Speaker 1: that even if I didn't UM give voice to her.

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Speaker 1: She is so funny and she's so smart, and one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite characteristics about her is that is her resilience.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, if you know the show, you

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Speaker 1: know they put Lisa Simpson through so much. They constantly

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Speaker 1: give her things and then by the end of the

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Speaker 1: episode twenty two minutes later, she doesn't have them anymore,

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Speaker 1: and there it's a pony or friends or um you know,

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Speaker 1: some fantastic achievement, and so she really has to draw

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Speaker 1: on these inner resources in a way that UM I

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Speaker 1: struggled with as a kid. And so if you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're if you're lucky enough to be in a

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Speaker 1: position to set a great example like that through your work,

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Speaker 1: then UM, I do think that you have a tremendous

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Speaker 1: responsibility to honor that. Yeah, one of the things I'm

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Speaker 1: so interested in when it comes to representation is that

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Speaker 1: the data is very clear that if young women and

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Speaker 1: girls can't see themselves reflected on screen, then they almost

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Speaker 1: don't see their own experiences and sort of stop believing

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Speaker 1: in the power of their own their own agency. And

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Speaker 1: you know, so few characters on screen are girls and women,

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Speaker 1: so few of them, and you know, having a character

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Speaker 1: likely said who is flawed, who is struggling, who gets things,

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Speaker 1: and by the end of the episode those things are

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Speaker 1: taken away, it really can show girls that you know,

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Speaker 1: we're here, we exist, our stories are important, our lived

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Speaker 1: experiences are important and have value, and that even if

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Speaker 1: you don't often see them reflected on screen, they're still

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Speaker 1: really important. I think that's really well said. And certainly,

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Speaker 1: as you know, I meaning the last six or nine months,

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Speaker 1: there's just great. Hopefully it's a movement that sustains itself

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Speaker 1: where I wouldn't say women are finding their voices, but

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Speaker 1: our voices are finally being heard. And but you're right

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Speaker 1: to your point that there haven't been a lot of

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Speaker 1: female heroes on screen in particular, and certainly not ones

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Speaker 1: that are truly flawed and still survive and thrive even

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Speaker 1: and can make you feel like I'm can make you

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Speaker 1: feel like I identify with that, and that is awesome

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Speaker 1: and not so we somehow need to be fixed. I

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Speaker 1: think that as women, we we do two things really well.

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Speaker 1: We apologize needlessly for almost everything, yes, and we take

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Speaker 1: it upon ourselves to try to fix ourselves when perhaps

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Speaker 1: there really isn't anything broken, Which isn't to say that

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Speaker 1: you shouldn't know is strive to improve yourself or learn

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Speaker 1: something new, or um, stay curious about people in the world,

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Speaker 1: but the notion that you are inherently broken in some

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Speaker 1: way somehow less than um. I think it's there's generations

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Speaker 1: and generations of terrible, terrible messaging going on. I completely

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Speaker 1: completely agree, and that's one of the reasons why I

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Speaker 1: feel like people connect with Lisa so much. So often

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Speaker 1: as women and female characters were on this binary where

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Speaker 1: you're a good girl or a bad girl, or you

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Speaker 1: know you're you're always one or the other, and I

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Speaker 1: think Lisa shows that you can be smart and driven

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Speaker 1: in ambitious, but also jealous and petty and have struggles

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Speaker 1: and up and all of that and still be this authentic,

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Speaker 1: multifaceted person that we all are. I feel like women

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Speaker 1: on screen don't really get the benefit of being multifaceted

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Speaker 1: people were either sweet and good or bad and slutty,

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Speaker 1: or bad and vengeful. And Lisa shows us that we

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Speaker 1: can be that we that are, we exist on a spectrum,

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Speaker 1: that we can be all things, we can exist in multitudes.

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Speaker 1: I completely agree, it's really beautifully said. Absolutely nothing to

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Speaker 1: add to that. As of our girl, I love that

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Speaker 1: you call her our girl. I mean, what's what is

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Speaker 1: your like? Do you look up to Lisa? Do you

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Speaker 1: admire her? Absolutely? And I also have this have a

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Speaker 1: very um quite I think unique relationship to the character.

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Speaker 1: And as far as because she doesn't look like me, um,

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Speaker 1: although oddly I do see myself in some of her

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Speaker 1: facial expressions, you know, but obviously she's bright yellow, she

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Speaker 1: has four fingers, she you know, she has her hair

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Speaker 1: is you can't tell her hairline from her complexion. Um,

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Speaker 1: and she has this massive overbyte and yet she couldn't

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Speaker 1: be cuter. But I do feel like Lisa Simpson is

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Speaker 1: so well formed that and and has been part of

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Speaker 1: our culture for so long now we just started recording

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Speaker 1: season thirty um this week, and that she really exists

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Speaker 1: quite separately from me, that she exists so successfully on

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Speaker 1: her own as her own little being. And I think

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Speaker 1: that if and if she didn't, I would maintain that

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't have hashtags on Twitter that say Lisa Simpson

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Speaker 1: suggesting that she should run for president in like, if

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Speaker 1: she was just a character that you sort of that

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Speaker 1: you didn't attach to, you would never get something that

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Speaker 1: goes viral in that way. Absolutely, And I think that's

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Speaker 1: a testament to not only your brilliant work as voice talent,

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Speaker 1: but the writers who give her life. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: clear that Lisa is someone on the show who I

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Speaker 1: don't want to say she's beat up on the show,

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Speaker 1: but she's someone who up right, I mean, you just

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Speaker 1: you see they put her through hell they do. They

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Speaker 1: hold her feet to the fire like like nobody else

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Speaker 1: I feel, and then they expect her to, um to

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Speaker 1: recover from that, and of course she always does. But

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Speaker 1: I always think, oh god, if she ever gets past

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Speaker 1: the age of paid that girls it's sub serious therapy,

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Speaker 1: Well maybe she'll teach the therapist for all you know,

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Speaker 1: she can be a therapist herself for sure. Um. And

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Speaker 1: I just think that that really to me, and you

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Speaker 1: can correct me if I'm wrong. It speaks to the

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Speaker 1: talent of you know, not only the writers, but the

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Speaker 1: you know, the amazing, the amazing voice talent that you

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Speaker 1: have on the Simpsons, so many of whom are female.

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Speaker 1: I actually didn't know that the first episode of the

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Speaker 1: Simpsons was written by Mimi Pond, a woman. Um and

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Speaker 1: you know, initially appeared on The Tracy Ullman Show, which

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Speaker 1: you know, amazing female powerhouse driven show. So what is

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Speaker 1: the what is the situation like in terms of gender

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Speaker 1: in the cast and croup the Simpsons is that the

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Speaker 1: you know, voice talent is certainly full of amazing female talent.

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Speaker 1: But what does the writer's room look like? The writer's

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Speaker 1: room is mostly male, actually by a lot like male.

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Speaker 1: I think we have we have quite a large staff

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Speaker 1: because everybody who writes on the Simpsons, um, they they

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Speaker 1: will because you've written on the Simpsons and you know,

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Speaker 1: the standard is set very high there. They then go

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Speaker 1: off and right for somebody else. And then they realized,

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Speaker 1: oh crap, we get nothing but studio and network notes,

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Speaker 1: and they all come back in some capacity to work

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Speaker 1: on The Simpsons again and and so. And that reference

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Speaker 1: is that in our writer's room when James L. Brooks,

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Speaker 1: our executive producer, made the deal with Fox too transfer

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Speaker 1: the Simpsons to a half hour series. He said, I'll

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Speaker 1: let me do it if we get no studio or

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Speaker 1: network notes, which is almost unheard of. But because he's

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Speaker 1: James L. Brooks, you know, Mary Tyler Moore and Bob

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Speaker 1: Newhart and um, terms of endearment and so many like

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Speaker 1: the guys. Just he's got walls and walls of of

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Speaker 1: trophies from our industry and um, so he's obviously incredibly

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Speaker 1: well regarded. And at that time I also have heard

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Speaker 1: that twentieth century Fox was like, sure, give the guy

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Speaker 1: whatever he wants. The show isn't gonna last more than

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Speaker 1: thirteen a half hour episodes, so falket who cares? And

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Speaker 1: then of course we hit so big and we're still

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Speaker 1: on and so but that um, you know, did a

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Speaker 1: fine print on his contract that says no to your

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Speaker 1: network notes still exists. So um. And the other one

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Speaker 1: of the other things he did actually, which was cool

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Speaker 1: as a little side bought as he said, he wanted

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Speaker 1: the music for the show to be scored by a

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Speaker 1: live orchestra. So every week for dpiece orchestra scores the

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Speaker 1: Simpson's music. There's nothing canned about it. It's it's pretty remarkable.

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Speaker 1: Um that never happens. Um So, But to that point,

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Speaker 1: the we have, most of the writers in that room

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Speaker 1: are men. And the other thing I've heard, and I

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Speaker 1: have actually recently heard confirmed, is that Lisa Simpson represents

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Speaker 1: all of those guys. She's there alter ego as well.

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Speaker 1: So if you consider that all of these male writers,

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Speaker 1: and maybe although I feel like the female writers, I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking of one in particular, Caroline o'mine who's been there

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Speaker 1: a really long time. She's such a phenomenal writer, and

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Speaker 1: she's an incredible woman, and I would say like she

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Speaker 1: has such a strong sense of herself, so maybe this

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Speaker 1: theory doesn't apply to her. But what I was going

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Speaker 1: to say is all these men when they were in school,

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Speaker 1: high school, and then they went to all these Ivy

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Speaker 1: League colleges, and um, I think when you're incredibly academically gifted,

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Speaker 1: as they were, it sets you apart from your peer group.

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Speaker 1: In fact, if you're gifted at anything, whether it's sports

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Speaker 1: for me it was school drama, um, whatever it is

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Speaker 1: that you're better at that most of your classmates, it

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Speaker 1: will bring you praise and jealousy all at the same time.

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Speaker 1: And certainly as a kid, when you're growing up, all

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Speaker 1: you want to do is belong And so these writers

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Speaker 1: who were also gifted, and some graduating from college when

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Speaker 1: they were sixteen kind of thing. You know every bit

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Speaker 1: what it was, what it's like for Lesa Simpson to

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Speaker 1: be the black sheep of her family and even in

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Speaker 1: her town. And so I think they get to to

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Speaker 1: write out a lot of the angst that they experienced

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Speaker 1: as young people. In our Little Lisa Simpsons, she's a

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Speaker 1: vessel for a lot of things. I can definitely see

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Speaker 1: how that plays out on the show. But again, I

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Speaker 1: think that is such a fascinating part of the character

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Speaker 1: that it's true if you grow up being good at something,

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Speaker 1: particularly as a girl, it may be a blessing in

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Speaker 1: your life, whether it's drama or sports or academics, but

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Speaker 1: it also will be something that maybe sets you apart,

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Speaker 1: that makes it hard. And I'm happy that on the

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Speaker 1: show we see Lisa grappling with that, because you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not always going to be easy for a little

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Speaker 1: smart girl who is precocious or is really into something

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Speaker 1: or very ambitious about something. You might get teased, you

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Speaker 1: might be a loner, you might be ostracized. But on

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Speaker 1: the Simpsons we see that it's okay, it's okay, Like

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Speaker 1: she's not she's you know, compare her to the character

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Speaker 1: of Martin, who is so smart never, you know, never

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Speaker 1: lets a chance go by to let people not see

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Speaker 1: that he is smart and talented, and you think like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is someone who's going to be you know, bullied

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Speaker 1: his whole life whatever. Through LISTA, you see that it's okay.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be something that consumes your entire identity,

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Speaker 1: that you're good at something or smart or ambitious, but

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Speaker 1: that you can it can exist within you, that you

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Speaker 1: can be a normal, happy, well adjusted person and also

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Speaker 1: be good at saxophone and be good at math, be

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Speaker 1: good at whatever. Yes, I agree, And I also think,

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Speaker 1: what are the things that so inspiring about Lisa's that

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Speaker 1: even if those talents, her academic prowess and her being

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Speaker 1: a saxophone prodigy, um, even as those things don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: win her any friends, she never ever gives up on them,

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Speaker 1: like she she never is. There's that one episode called

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Speaker 1: Summer or four ft two where she does pretend to

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Speaker 1: be one of the cool kids who isn't um a brainiac,

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Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, Bart outs her right.

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Speaker 1: He tells those school kids when they go to Flanders's

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Speaker 1: beach house and they have this weekend and she meets

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Speaker 1: these kids and she's like, oh my god, I think

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Speaker 1: they liked me. And she's so excited by that, and

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Speaker 1: Bart is so jealous that he then goes to them

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Speaker 1: and says, you know, my sister is actually a super

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Speaker 1: straight a student, and she's you know, nerdy and all

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Speaker 1: the things that you guys aren't, and they have them.

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Speaker 1: They pause for a moment, and at the end of

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Speaker 1: the episode they end up liking her just for who

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Speaker 1: she is, and of course that's the best message of

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Speaker 1: all times. But even as Lisa has a moment here,

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Speaker 1: she of course expresses her rage to bar which I

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Speaker 1: always love, and but she I don't think my recollection

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Speaker 1: is that she never it's apart from that initial idea

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Speaker 1: that if I don't tell them who I am, they'll

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Speaker 1: still like me, she never doubles down on thinking I

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Speaker 1: need to figure out how to change myself entirely. She

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Speaker 1: tries to. Instead, she approaches it as though I need

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Speaker 1: to see if I can hang on to who I

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Speaker 1: am and still have friends who get me and who

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Speaker 1: I get something from in return? Yeah, And that's that

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Speaker 1: episode is so poignant because she does kind of come

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Speaker 1: to this realization that she's okay. She doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: change herself to get friends to be popular. I see

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Speaker 1: that in another great episode, the episode where she decides

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Speaker 1: she has a crush on the school bully um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you know, she tries to make him become sort

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Speaker 1: of like her version of a successful mate, like putting

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Speaker 1: him in a sweater vest and having him eat fig bars,

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Speaker 1: and by the end she realizes, one, this isn't gonna work.

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Speaker 1: Isn't who he is. He's always going to be the

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Speaker 1: guy who wants to take a poop in Principal Skinner's

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Speaker 1: bird bath or whatever. And then that's okay, Like she's

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Speaker 1: it's okay that she is never going to be the

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Speaker 1: kind of girl that he likes, and she still likes

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Speaker 1: herself and that at the end of the episode they're

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Speaker 1: not in relationship and that's okay, right, but she still

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Speaker 1: really likes him, you know she. I do always feel

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Speaker 1: as though since that episode, Lisa and Nelson kind of

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Speaker 1: have a lasting affection for each other, even if they're

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Speaker 1: not going to be a couple. There's another episode further

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Speaker 1: on after that one where it's an episode about microfinance

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Speaker 1: and Nelson turns out to be really good at fixing bicycles,

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Speaker 1: and Lisa supports his business anonymously. And what I love

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Speaker 1: about her is that again, I mean, she knows Nelson,

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Speaker 1: she knows him quite well, and she knows they're nothing alike,

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Speaker 1: but she is all about supporting that, saying that he's

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Speaker 1: good at that she doesn't know anything about, but the

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Speaker 1: fact that he's good at it, and then it might

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Speaker 1: give him confidence, might give him a leg up even

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Speaker 1: in his own standing, is meaningful to her, And so

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Speaker 1: she's all about it. I mean, come on, you can't

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Speaker 1: have a better ole model in that. And and on

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Speaker 1: the flip side of all of the sort of all

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Speaker 1: of the things she does that are wise beyond her years,

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Speaker 1: she still has a fantastic sense of humor. She still

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Speaker 1: thinks that Issue and Scratchy is the funniest thing she's

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Speaker 1: ever seen, and that I think is super important element

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Speaker 1: in creating the character. If he just made her really

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Speaker 1: precocious and this now at all, she becomes pretty insufferable

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Speaker 1: as long as you don't forget that she's always eight

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Speaker 1: and needs to have some childlike characteristics that are very

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Speaker 1: much like an eight year old like her, you know,

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Speaker 1: loving of the issue and scratchy cartoons. Then you create

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Speaker 1: a really successful balance. I think, Yeah, I agree. Something

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Speaker 1: that you had said that to jump out at me

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Speaker 1: is that, you know, for a show that is notable

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Speaker 1: for a sort of showing toxic, dysfunctional romantic relations and

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Speaker 1: ships and friendships as well. You know, you've got the

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Speaker 1: Homer who was often choking bird and Homer who can

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Speaker 1: be sort of like not the best husband to marche

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Speaker 1: Lisa kind of presents this this interesting healthy model for

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Speaker 1: like what healthy relationships can look like, where you know, hey,

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Speaker 1: even if we didn't work out as a romantic couple,

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Speaker 1: I still support your I still support you. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting I didn't think about that until you just

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Speaker 1: mentioned it, that her relationships really do illustrate what healthy

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Speaker 1: relationships can look like, even if they don't work out

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Speaker 1: the way that we have planned. I'm so glad you

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Speaker 1: because way back in the day, back in the early nineties,

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Speaker 1: when we first went into a half hour, it was

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Speaker 1: George H. W. Bush who said, we need more families

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Speaker 1: like the Waltons and less like the Simpsons and everybody.

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Speaker 1: Of course he was on the show of For one thing,

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Speaker 1: it made our show even more popular, because anytime you

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Speaker 1: have to be really careful of about how you're going

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Speaker 1: to do something. Um. But what was really um emblematic

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Speaker 1: about that comment was the Simpsons, despite their dysfunction, really

419
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Speaker 1: genuinely care about each other. So even if they're not

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Speaker 1: really even if they're not expert at expressing it, even

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Speaker 1: if they're they don't always do the right thing, and

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Speaker 1: they often don't, their intention is pure. And even if

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Speaker 1: at the end, at the beginning it seems as though

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Speaker 1: the intention is not even pure, they always come around,

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Speaker 1: as you say, like the Simpson realizing Nelson is never

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Speaker 1: going to be like me, but I still can like

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Speaker 1: Nelson for who he is. And that's of course a

428
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: universal lesson that to appreciate somebody's differences. Even if you

429
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 1: don't necessarily the I to Y, or you're not going

430
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: to hang out seven days a week, that's all okay.

431
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: They could still be a really interesting occasional friend. They

432
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: can just be They can hold that point on the

433
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: circle that you will never hold. So anybody who who

434
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 1: says the Simpsons is a bad influence. I think, Um,

435
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: I was steel sort of sad, as though you've actually

436
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: you've missed the larger point of this family. Yeah, I

437
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: mean growing up. Not not to make it very too personal,

438
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 1: but growing up, we planned family meals around when The

439
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: Simpsons came on TV. So when I was growing up,

440
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: came on at seven, So we had family meals around

441
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 1: the Simpsons. And you know, I I've talked on the

442
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: show about my family, and my family is great and

443
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: I love them very much. But we were the big,

444
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: loud family that was always involved in something. It was just,

445
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,679
Speaker 1: you know, we didn't have that cookie cutter family that

446
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 1: you saw on The Brady Bunch where everything was happy

447
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 1: and nobody ever screamed and nobody ever did anything wrong.

448
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: We had a real family and my parents worked, they

449
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: were cranky, the kids were, the kids lied, we were stealth.

450
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 1: We got that great. It's like all the things that

451
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 1: happened in normal families. And I would often feel so

452
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: alienated watching these perfect families on TV, and I have

453
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: would think, gee, what are we doing wrong? Like what's

454
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: wrong with our family? That doesn't look like that? And

455
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 1: The Simpsons was a show that reminded me, Hey, families

456
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: don't always look like the perfect happy Huxtables. Sometimes it

457
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: looks like the Simpsons. And sometimes your house is a mess,

458
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: your parents are cranky, your kids are you know, they're

459
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: good kids, but they live, they get into scrapes, they

460
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 1: get into trouble, and that doesn't mean they don't love

461
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: each other. And that show was so was such a

462
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: big part of my understanding of my own family and

463
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: help families look and behave you know, large and I

464
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: think you know, to your points, certainly back in if

465
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: we we sput off in a half hour show, uh

466
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: in January, Well, the first actually the first half hour

467
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 1: episode was December rating nine because it was a Christmas

468
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: special where they get a little helper, and um, I

469
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: think at that time to your point, there were most

470
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: of the shows were reflecting the family that was much

471
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: more pristine than what the Simpsons was about to um

472
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: reveal and so, and you either loved it or you

473
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: hated it. You either wanted to buy into the we

474
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: need to be more like debit Brady Bunch or you

475
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 1: were willing to go, oh, crap, awesome, look at that,

476
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: there's a family just like ours. And maybe you're a

477
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: little bit worse. I think we're doing okay, you know, UM,

478
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,479
Speaker 1: so it's great. You know, always to um have a

479
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: mirror held up in a wider sense, I think is

480
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: always incredibly important and valuable, as like you were saying

481
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the interview about girls not seeing

482
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: a lot of um flawed but still ambitious and uh successful,

483
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: but not outrageously not not unrealistically so not having a

484
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 1: lot of role models like that On television. You often

485
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: hear um people of color saying I didn't see anybody

486
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: like me in movies and television, and hopefully that conversation

487
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: is changing now. But you know, as a white woman

488
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 1: with blue eyes grew up in a middle class family

489
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,479
Speaker 1: in the United States, I have no idea what that's like.

490
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: I certainly knew what it was like as a girl

491
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: not to see that many role models. But but if

492
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: there were girls on film and television, they were probably white.

493
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: So at least I had one thing that I could

494
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: identify with, right and UM, imagine growing up, you know,

495
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: I can't obviously imagine growing up as somebody who doesn't

496
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: see anybody who looks like them, sounds like them, acts

497
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: like them, lives like them anywhere in entertainment, which is

498
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: somehow supposed to reflect all of our lives. Yeah, you

499
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: you kind of grow up feeling like your own experiences

500
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: just aren't validated because they're not seen. And you, you know,

501
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: the studies have been very clear that it's so important

502
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: to have your own experience is reflected back at you,

503
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: to have that agency and that grounding, and to feel

504
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: like you are, you know, part of the conversation. So

505
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: I want to switch gears really quickly. Um. Earlier this week,

506
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: there was a really poignant Vanity Fair piece that just

507
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: came out called Why Lisa Simpson Matters, And if folks

508
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: haven't read it, they should totally read it. It's very

509
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: very poignant. But one of the things I found so

510
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: great about that piece was you really are very candid

511
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: about your own struggles with perfection and an industry that

512
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: often expects women to be you know, the best looking,

513
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: the most talented, all of that, and that's something that

514
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: I see Lisa struggle with quite a bit. There's an

515
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: episode where she gets an eating disorder when she's doing ballet,

516
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: and I wondered, like, what, like, what made you want

517
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: to be so candid about your sort of struggles with

518
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: trying to you know, be this perfect, you know, perfect

519
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: looking person. I think, certainly, the while not a calculated

520
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: move to talk about those things that I for me,

521
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: it's always it was a cautionary tale that there was.

522
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: There was a lot of pain in trying to somehow

523
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: fix something that I perceived as being broken and it's

524
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: not working. So you know, the takeaway from for instance,

525
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: having um LIFEO suction or dieting or there was. I

526
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: put a lot of emphasis on my appearance because I

527
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: wasn't five not still not five ft nine, um, you know,

528
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: a hundred and five pounds soaking wet. I'm I'm athletic,

529
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: I'm super strong, I am what I am right. But certainly,

530
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: as I was growing up and never ever ever cast

531
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: as the pretty girl, and people made fun of my

532
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: looks when I was growing up and all this stuff,

533
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: all the things that every girl goes through, but I

534
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: took it really personally, and so I did these things

535
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: and hopes that it would make me feel um better

536
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: about my appearance, more successful, more acceptable in the wide world.

537
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: And it didn't work. And that is my only regret

538
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: in doing those things that I tried every which way

539
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: I possibly knew to fill up the inside from the outside.

540
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: And so whatever your modus operandi is, whether it's this

541
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: relationship will fix me, this job will fix me, this

542
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: award will fix me, this plastic surgery will fix me.

543
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: I'm not saying you shouldn't pursue any of those things.

544
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: Just know why you're pursuing them, and don't assume, don't

545
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: ever assume that doing those things will fill that hole

546
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: inside of you. It might start of coat it with

547
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: a little lining, but at the end of the day,

548
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: you're going to have to figure out a way to

549
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: fill it up from the inside, which and even having

550
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: said that, it's sort of almost a daily struggle for me.

551
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: I have in no way mastered this, but at least

552
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: there's some awareness that, okay, okay, all those things I

553
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: did before, I know it's not going to work the

554
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: way I wanted to. I still wanted to, but at

555
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: least I've learned that it doesn't work. So really, if

556
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: you could say, you know, I guess it comes down

557
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: to if I could save one person from doing something

558
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: for the wrong reason and again do it if you

559
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: want to do it, then that that would have it

560
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: was worth it too to bear my soul. I think

561
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: it was definitely worth it. You could count me among

562
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: that one. I'm sure it's plenty of women, but I'm

563
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: definitely one of the one of the one women for

564
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: whom that will make it worth it. Um. I think

565
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: as women, we so often feel like we have to

566
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: measure up to this imagined ideal of what success looks

567
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: like for me. I always think, if I can just

568
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: get published in this one outlet, or if I could

569
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: just get this one professional goal or just have this,

570
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: I would finally feel like I had quote made it right,

571
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: I finally feel successful. And you know when I if

572
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: I ever reach those goals, I would still feel empty.

573
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: And I think it's one of those things where you

574
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: have to come to realize making X, what meeting X,

575
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: y Z goal isn't actually the end all be all.

576
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: It's the process, It's the journey. It's how we get

577
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: there that really kind of can be fulfilling, and that

578
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if you get published an X outlet

579
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: or if you can X award or whatever. If you

580
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: if it isn't going to be what actually makes you

581
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: feel fulfilled. Right well, and I would say I think

582
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: you should give yourself the credit where credit is due.

583
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: That of course it matters. You could get published in that,

584
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: in that um publication, whatever that goal is for you.

585
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: But if you think just because you get published in

586
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: whatever that thing is, that that's going to be the

587
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: end of your trying to attain goals, You've got another income.

588
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 1: And that's what I learned. Have learned. You know that

589
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: even if if I when I drove onto the Fox

590
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: slot and where we record the Simpsons and saw they

591
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: have all these skillboards at the entrance of course rights

592
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: advertising shows and films that they own and that they're

593
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: that are on their channels and that they produced. And

594
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: let's say I drove in onto the Fox slot and

595
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:41,399
Speaker 1: saw Yardley Smith starring in blah blah blah whatever it was. Um,

596
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,479
Speaker 1: if I think that, that's like, Wow, that's it. I've

597
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 1: made it now, I couldn't retire. I'm good, I'm good

598
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: to go. That was the like, that's just not who

599
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: I am. So if you are a person who is

600
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: always trying to set the bar higher, then it's a

601
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: really delicate balance. And I again, I I haven't mastered it,

602
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: but for many many years, at the beginning of my career,

603
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: I equated my value and my identity with my successes.

604
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: And of course success is a matter of perception, and

605
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 1: so is failure. So if you know at the age

606
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: by the age of twenty five, I hadn't won an oscar,

607
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: that felt like a failure to me. Whereas people are like, well, jus, yardly,

608
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: that's an incredibly lofty goal, I'm like, yeah, well, why

609
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't you set a lofty goal? But the precarious part

610
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: of that is if you don't achieve that goal, does

611
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: that mean that you end up missing all of the

612
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: great things that you have done along the way, but

613
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 1: just because they weren't on your checklist, you don't count.

614
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: And that was the set of rules that I had

615
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 1: set for myself. What do you say that you're someone

616
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: who would call yourself a perfectionist? Yes, yes, um, certainly

617
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: less so now, Oh it's been a really hard one battle.

618
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: But I was tortured by my notions of perfection growing

619
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: up and well into my twenties, probably even I'm like

620
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: I'm fifty three now, so probably into my mid thirties,

621
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: I would say, um, so that would under that same

622
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: umbrella would be the plastic surgery, would be the holding

623
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: myself to somehow assuming that when I went to an

624
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: audition and got down to UM went to network. As

625
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: we used to say, we don't do it so much anymore,

626
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: but when you go to the network on a pilot,

627
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 1: you that means you've passed all You've jumped through all

628
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 1: the various hoops. This is the last stop. You're going

629
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: to audition for the network executive, and in that moment

630
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: they will decide whether or not you get the job.

631
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: And that was for television pilots. And so I was

632
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: really good at it. I was. I was a strong auditioner.

633
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: I had nerves of steel, which is not to say

634
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: I was fearless. I was. I really am sort of

635
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: afraid of everything, but I just have this overbundance of

636
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: courage and that carried me through. And so, but it

637
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 1: came to the point where I would blame myself for

638
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: not being able to basically control their minds. Right, if

639
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: I didn't get the job, I would think, well, what

640
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: did I do wrong? And that was it. There wasn't

641
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: anything else I could do. I hadn't done anything wrong.

642
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,760
Speaker 1: I had done all of my homework. I was super

643
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: super prepared in those situations. Always UM and for whatever

644
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: reason they decided they wanted to go with six ft

645
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 1: two in blonde, or they decided to make the part

646
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: in uh something for a man, or you know what

647
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like, there were so many factors beyond my control,

648
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: but because I wasn't able to control them somehow, that

649
00:37:54,719 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: was my fault. And that that's when perfectionism, I think,

650
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: really becomes a zero sum game. Again. I think it's

651
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: everything to have goals and to strive for them, but

652
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 1: you have to be nimble along the way. And I

653
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: think I was certainly never a person who was interested

654
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: in the journey. I was only interested in the destination. Um.

655
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 1: That's how I was brought up to achieve at a

656
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: very high standard. And it didn't include necessarily what you

657
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: had learned along the way, or if it did, that

658
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: was an implied success. But because it's never spoken about,

659
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 1: it didn't you know, it didn't mean anything to me. Um,

660
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: So I've kind of had to arrive at that on

661
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: my own, and I go back and forth. Still I'm

662
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: by no means the zen master in this. I mean, seriously,

663
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: Bridge check back tomorrow and be like, so, yardly, how

664
00:38:54,600 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: is the journey today? I'm like, but yeah, it's it's

665
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: it's almost like a meta thing because it's it's your

666
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: It's like a large version of you learning or or

667
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: figuring out again and again that it is the journey,

668
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: not the destination. Right that you know tomorrow you might

669
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: be in a different place. And that's okay because ultimately

670
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 1: it isn't about where you're at, it's about how you

671
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: get there. Absolutely, And I think something that you said earlier,

672
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: I do my sense of it is is that accepting

673
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: the journey is harder for women because and and maybe

674
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: obviously there are men who like, dude, I never accepted

675
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: the journey. It was all about the goal. But I

676
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: feel as though when when women share their share their journey,

677
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: that it can often be perceived as oh, oh, you

678
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: haven't made it yet. Oh well that's too bad, dear.

679
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: That there's um, there's just a different there's a double

680
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: standard that you that either you won't make it because

681
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: of course the phrase glass ceiling means something to all

682
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 1: of us, and that if you're still on the journey,

683
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: you must not be doing something right. And um, it's

684
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: and it's not always imposed. I'm not saying that men

685
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: are holding us down. I think we work against ourselves

686
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 1: as women. Um, there's a very different social structure for

687
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: men and women. I think men, for instance, obviously are

688
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: much better at the romance UM, and women I think

689
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: if we're successful, we contend to divide and conquer instead

690
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: of banding together. Again, I think that narrative is changing

691
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: and hopefully permanently um as we go forward for where

692
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: we are now. But when there's a movie that's all

693
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 1: about women and we call it a chick flick. But

694
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: when there's a movie all about men, we don't call

695
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: it a man flick. It's just a movie, right, right.

696
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: So I don't think that we've always been encouraged to

697
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: band together, and when women do, it's like, oh, yeah,

698
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: you know, it's just a bunch of women getting together

699
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: doing a thing, as opposed to a bunch of people

700
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: getting together doing a thing who all happened to be

701
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: the same gender. Yeah. I think that's so true. And

702
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 1: something that you said that resonated so well with me

703
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: personally is this idea that for women, it almost seems

704
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: like we have to have this facade that we have

705
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 1: it all together all the time, that we know exactly

706
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: what we're doing, and that when women kind of Women

707
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: are not given the same leeway as men to show

708
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: their flaws, their vulnerabilities, and we have to sort of

709
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: pretend that we have it all together lest we look

710
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 1: like complete screw ups, because like, there's something worse than

711
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: being a woman who like doesn't have it all together.

712
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 1: Men are given the latitude to be these eccentric geniuses

713
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: who are complete messes but still get it together and

714
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: like produce awesome stuff. Women, on the other hand, don't

715
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 1: get that leeway. And I'll never forget the first time

716
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: that a woman that I really professionally admired admitted like

717
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: one of her biggest, most crucial work mistakes, and I

718
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 1: thought she this was someone who I thought was so perfect,

719
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: never messed up, blah blah blah, And she was like,

720
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: you you think that about me? I mess up all

721
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: the time. And it made me realize, Oh, I have

722
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: this idea in my head that if a woman has

723
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 1: made it, that means she has never up, She's never

724
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: made a mistake, she has always been on her game

725
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 1: all the time. And that's the story that we tell

726
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 1: ourselves about successful women is not true, right, And there

727
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: was that movement way back in the I probably started

728
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: in the seventies, um, where there was this notion that

729
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: women could have it all, that you could be a

730
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 1: career woman, you could be a mother, and you could

731
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: be a wife, and you would do all of those things.

732
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 1: Seen a slee without any stress, without one ball, without

733
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: any of the balls being dropped and rolling under the sofa.

734
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: And of course the revelation over the last forty years

735
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:16,240
Speaker 1: has been like, oh, wait a minute, that's impossible because

736
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,439
Speaker 1: there are still only twenty four hours of a day

737
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: and that that balancing act. Um. I mean, and I

738
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 1: don't have any kids, so I don't even know firsthand,

739
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: but that's like, but I from women that I am

740
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: friends with who have tried to do that, is like, yeah,

741
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: it's impossible. There will be this some something is going

742
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: to suffer, and it's usually, uh, the self care. Of course,

743
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: we'll hear more from Yardley after this quick break and

744
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 1: we're back. Let's get back to Yardly. So I want

745
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 1: to switch gears again here, um In one of the

746
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: ways that you are very similar to Lisa Simpson is

747
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: that Lisa, one of the ways that her feminism comes

748
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: through is that she always feels very empowered to you know,

749
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: figure out what's going on in the world around her,

750
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: whether it's solving the mystery of who shot Mr Burns

751
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: or figuring out what this you know, what this weird

752
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: angels skeleton thing that was found in her in her community.

753
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 1: Mall like what that was about? Is it really an angel?

754
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 1: Is it something else going on? I love that Lisa

755
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: is always feels empowered to know more than the adults

756
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 1: around her, and like completely runs with that. And so

757
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 1: you sort of have done that a little bit yourself

758
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: with Small Town dis your true crime podcast, Oh nice

759
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: Gangue their break kid um. Well, I will say one

760
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: day one of my other favorite qualities about Lisa Sinton

761
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 1: is she has a very strong sense of justice. Lisa

762
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: has it an absolutely unshakable moll center as in terms

763
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: of and not a whole elier than thou kind of motality,

764
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 1: but uh, we are all equal and we need to

765
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: be treated equally and so and I love that about her.

766
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: She's she's always for the underdog, and I like to

767
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: think I share that with her. And I've always had

768
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: a love of true crime, and I feel as though

769
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: for me, if there was something really comforting and optimistic

770
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: about the good guys winning, I really I get. I

771
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: get a visceral fire of rage in my gut when

772
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 1: somebody gets away with something bad or something they've done

773
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: something wrong and nobody's calling them out on it, or

774
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: they just haven't gotten caught. And it can be anything

775
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: from uh, somebody who you know lies to their best friend,

776
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: to somebody who has committed a murder or um inflicted

777
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: some terrible crime or harm on somebody else. And so

778
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 1: this true crime podcast that we've started, that we launched

779
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 1: in September and has had massive success. We're so thrilled.

780
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 1: I started it with my best friend, who's another actress

781
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: named zb Allen, and our two friends, these identical twin

782
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: detectives named Dan and Dave, and Dan and Dave. We

783
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:37,280
Speaker 1: we never say their last names because Dave Dana has retired,

784
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: but Dave is still a working detective. And we also

785
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,919
Speaker 1: wanted the premise of the show is the big time

786
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 1: crimes are happening in small towns everywhere, just not with

787
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,720
Speaker 1: the frequency that they happened in say Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington,

788
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: d C. But the level of depravity and evil is

789
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: in no way diminished because the population is smaller. And

790
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: so we were Zibbie and I were fascinated by this,

791
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: and so we were we were um all together having

792
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: drinks one night at Christmas, and we were like, we

793
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: should do a podcast. Oh, like yeah, And then three

794
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 1: months later we were like okay. And we all had

795
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: always loved listening to Dan and Dave's stories about the

796
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 1: cases that were breaking in because and they were the

797
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: ones who had worked the cases. We got incredible detail

798
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 1: and we were so fascinated by the actual process of

799
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: how do you break a case, And so that's sort

800
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: of how the podcast was born. And we decided we

801
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 1: would only have detectives on the show who actually investigated

802
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: the cases they're talking about, and we've been able to

803
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: stick to that. So now we go around the country

804
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: interviewing detectives about cases, and we also try to get

805
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: cases that are lesser known. A couple of them have

806
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: had national attention, but by and large, um, they aren't

807
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: the things that you always read about on Wikipedia. Because

808
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: for us it was many fold. We wanted to highlight

809
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: really stellar police work, of which there's a lot, and

810
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 1: we wanted the criteria for the detective is just tell

811
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 1: us about a case that you're proud of. So it

812
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be the glorious murder that you ever

813
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 1: came across, uh Dan. For instance, there's an episode in

814
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: season one Grid Dan tells a story about breaking them

815
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 1: this case wide open of a home invasion robbery, and

816
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: the only clue he had was um, uh, two ice

817
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: tea bottles that were unopened, so no d n A

818
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: and an unmarked plastic grocery bag that said thank you

819
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: for your business. And through the series of just some

820
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 1: good old fashioned detective work, Dan figured out where the

821
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: bag came from, who had bought it, uh, where they

822
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: got on the bus because he knew that they didn't

823
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 1: have a car, um, and on and on and on,

824
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: and then linked them to several other burglaries. So and

825
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: that stuff like, it's such a win, it's such a

826
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: win for the good guys, and we love that. And

827
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: on the foot side, we have some really really dark

828
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: cases where um, there's a case about child abuse that

829
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: ended up changing the law and this state and the

830
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 1: way they do welfare checks on children in this date

831
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: and that one's really hard to hear, but we did

832
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 1: get the detective is quite some time ago, in the eighties,

833
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 1: eighties or early nineties. Um, we got the detective who

834
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 1: worked in that case to talk about it, and we

835
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: just we can't get enough of it. But we're getting

836
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 1: all these five star reviews, and so we're on iTunes

837
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: and we're now we're on the Stitcher premium too, UM,

838
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,240
Speaker 1: Google play anywhere you like to listen to your podcast.

839
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: And I think that you brought a clip for us

840
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: to hear. Oh yes, I did. So we put together this.

841
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 1: We just launched season two, UM in the middle of February,

842
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,359
Speaker 1: so before that we wanted to We have recorded all

843
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,439
Speaker 1: our episodes, we hadn't edited them all because we're we're

844
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 1: a super small team bridget we are. We have means

845
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: to be doing the editing, and then we pass it

846
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 1: on to our two actual editors who know not how

847
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: to work pro tools and all that. UM. And that's

848
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: the team, Thank you very much. UM. So we have

849
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: our own equipment, so we pack it up in um

850
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: palaquint cases and go to the small towns. But so

851
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,319
Speaker 1: we wanted to put together this trailer of clips from

852
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: season two and it's fantastic. There are a couple of

853
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: calls in there, UM, some sound bites from the some

854
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 1: of the detectives that we talked to for a season two.

855
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: I think it's a really great compilation and of what

856
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: you can look forward to. Let's hear a bit now.

857
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: I just witness to man driving a vehicle intoxicated. It's

858
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 1: got a star of child screaming and running in the

859
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: car chase. Really, it almost immediately turns into a pretty

860
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: significant car chase. We can't let this guy get away.

861
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: This guy gets away. This little girl's dead. I have

862
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 1: never in my ten years of doing this, seen somebody

863
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: that on first glance looks so dead. I remember he

864
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 1: put both hands on my shoulders and he looked me

865
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: in the eye and he said, Yardley. He repeated my

866
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 1: name three times, Yardley, Yardley, Yardley. I wanted to call

867
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 1: you last night and tell you I love you and

868
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: I'll take care of you and don't worry. She was

869
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: a very religious person, and so she really felt like

870
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,799
Speaker 1: it was her purpose to save Mark. One woman described

871
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: her coming to work with marks on her arm to

872
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:09,839
Speaker 1: show emergency who shot her. The investigator says, I don't

873
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: know if you need a lawyer. Did you kill your wife?

874
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:15,879
Speaker 1: Doesn't answer, just kind of looks away, and then he says,

875
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 1: I think I should get a lawyer. Well, that's amazing.

876
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 1: I hope that folks check it out. I've listened to

877
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 1: a few episodes and it's really really compelling stuff. And

878
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 1: I've got to say it is a little bit interesting

879
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 1: to hear who I think of as Lisa Simpson talking

880
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: about these are very grisly crimes. Do people tell you

881
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 1: that we do? We have we have heard that where

882
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 1: people are either really kind of pickled by it or

883
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 1: slightly unnerved by it. Um. Luckily, I actually to be

884
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 1: and I by no means to do most of the

885
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: talking in our podcast. We really are. We're sort of

886
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 1: the we're the audience obviously, and I think some of

887
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 1: the best feedback we get UM is from fans who say,

888
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: I love this podcast. One of my favorite things is

889
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 1: that the ladies asked the question that I would have asked,

890
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: right when I would have asked it. And that's the

891
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 1: purpose that we serve. That we're there to draw out

892
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: the details that these detectives, because they live with these cases,

893
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 1: either feel like that's that important or maybe not that interesting,

894
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 1: and they're wrong about all of that. It's all important

895
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,319
Speaker 1: and it's all interesting, and so Zaber and I are

896
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: there sort of the Greek chorus to go, hey, what

897
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:34,879
Speaker 1: about that? And it's really been so rewarding. I I

898
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 1: don't know that. I don't know that we had any

899
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 1: expectations when we started it. Really. I people like, well,

900
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: what did you hope to get out of it? I'm like,

901
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:45,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just some really great stories because

902
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: I love true crime and I love the good guys

903
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:52,319
Speaker 1: to win UM and it's just in many ways been

904
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:56,280
Speaker 1: so much more than that. It's interesting. I've actually found

905
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: that most of people that get drunk and say let's

906
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: start a podcast, it actually does end up being kind

907
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: of cool, so you're you're in good company. My theory is,

908
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 1: and this obviously everybody won't agree with this, but I

909
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: think you have to approach everything that you do with

910
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 1: a huge measure of passion. Like if you think, Okay,

911
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this because it's a money making scheme

912
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: other than the fact, and I'm not talking about jobs

913
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 1: that you need to take in order to make your

914
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 1: mortgage or buy your groceries, like those are jobs. But

915
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 1: if you're going to initiate something UM from scratch and

916
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: you don't do it because it moves you in some way,

917
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 1: then I think that your success will be more difficultly one. Um,

918
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 1: I think when I because I had a shoe company

919
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,439
Speaker 1: for five years and I and I started the shoe

920
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 1: company literally on a whim, because my my motto is

921
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: sort of screw it, let's do it. And I didn't

922
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:00,879
Speaker 1: have a lot of clothes, but I didn't have any

923
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 1: beautiful shoes that were comfortable enough to carry me through

924
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: my day. And I'm like, well, that I can be

925
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: part of this solution. So without knowing anything about designing shoes,

926
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: but knowing a lot about what I like, I founded

927
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 1: a company called Marsha Vu in two thousand and ten,

928
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 1: and I made the shoes in Italy. And I would

929
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 1: go to Italy twice a year to visit the factories

930
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 1: and the tanneries and take my materials. And I had

931
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:27,919
Speaker 1: a woman who was a graphic designer, and I would

932
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 1: tell her what I wanted and she would draw the

933
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: sketches for the specs and give those to the factories.

934
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 1: But my point is, if I didn't have my heart

935
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 1: in and if I didn't really think this is really

936
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,439
Speaker 1: exciting for me. I'm learning all this stuff. I had

937
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: never started a company before. There were so many other

938
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:52,319
Speaker 1: things that it entailed that I didn't realize would be

939
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 1: part of the process when I started it, but that

940
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 1: I ended up really loving. Then it would have felt

941
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 1: like the tremendous failure, I think when at the end

942
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 1: of the day after five years we still hadn't made

943
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 1: a profit. We had made money, but not a profit,

944
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,359
Speaker 1: and I sort of started to really get to lay

945
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 1: the end of the big market shot company. It's kind

946
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 1: of a racket, which is fine, UM, And I realized,

947
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 1: you know what, it takes as much courage to say

948
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: no to something as it does to say as to something.

949
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:26,240
Speaker 1: And so I closed the company and started a new company,

950
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: sort of went back to show business, UM, which is

951
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: what how small town they started. I have a development

952
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 1: company with a my partner, Ben Cornwell, and we developed

953
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:42,320
Speaker 1: projects in all mediums at their very earliest stages. And again,

954
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 1: that's really exciting to me. To be able to be

955
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 1: the people who get to say yes first. UM is

956
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 1: a unique position and something that's really meaningful to me

957
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: because somebody gave me a chance way back in the day,

958
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 1: and now you get to give that chance to others.

959
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 1: You get to be the person that says yes, the

960
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,919
Speaker 1: decider yes so I can and pay you to write

961
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 1: a script. I'm not I don't have to ask you

962
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: to write it on spec and I don't know what's

963
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 1: going to happen with it. Even if nothing happens with it,

964
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 1: we both invested something in it. You invested you know,

965
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 1: your blood, sweat and tears, and I invested money, and

966
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: together we were able to move the needle in some way.

967
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 1: I love that. That's that's so powerful. This is my

968
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: last question, um, So, I have to ask. Last week,

969
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: Ted Cruise said this about Lisa Simpson. I think the

970
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: Democrats are the party of Lisa Simpson and Republicans are

971
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 1: happily the party of Homer and Bark and Maggie and Marge. So, Yardley,

972
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 1: what do you think about that? You know, first of all,

973
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 1: I was surprised that the guy he's Ted Cruises talking

974
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 1: at two at at t Peck says before that, um

975
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: for Ted Cruise says Lisa's sent as a party of

976
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: the Democrats, that Ted Cruiz is a huge fan of

977
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 1: the show, because I feel like if he was really

978
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 1: a fan of the show, he wouldn't say he wouldn't

979
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 1: include at least Marge and Maggie as being Republicans, because

980
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: that seems ridiculous to me, at least, not Republicans who

981
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 1: aren't completely inclusive. They would have to be moderate Republicans,

982
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 1: and I don't necessarily consider Ted Cruz a moderate Republican, um.

983
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: But what really struck me about that comment when I

984
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 1: heard it, because I actually hadn't seen it, and then

985
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 1: of course, you know, my text messages blew up and

986
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 1: the Twitter feed blew up, like Yarderie, Ardie, what are

987
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 1: you gonna say about this? And so I watched the

988
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: clip and I think the thing that was most striking

989
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 1: to me is that although he was sort of he

990
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 1: sort of tried to, you know, pass it off as

991
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 1: a joke, Ted Cruz said that Lisa since as the

992
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 1: party of the Democrats with so much disdain and so

993
00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 1: that was a bad thing. And I thought, this is

994
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 1: absolutely indicative of the way the government is, um not

995
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 1: functioning at the moment, that there doesn't seem to be

996
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 1: any um business, seem to be a lot of reaching

997
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:17,240
Speaker 1: across the aisle. And I'm not saying that, um it's

998
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 1: just on the Republican side, and certainly the Democrats have

999
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: dug their heels in, but I do feel that because

1000
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: the Republicans are the party in power across the board,

1001
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 1: the burden falls more heavily on them to reach across

1002
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: the aisle and say, hey, how can we reach a compromise,

1003
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, government is compromised.

1004
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about how difficulties to get

1005
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 1: four friends to decide where to eat dinner on any

1006
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: given night, you get like ten different suggestions. Right, you

1007
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 1: think you're gonna get what is it, you know, between

1008
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 1: the House and the Senate people to agree on one day?

1009
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 1: That's ever going to happen. People, Everybody's gonna have to

1010
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 1: give something up. So um, I I was quite disappointed,

1011
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: but of course I had to answer, and I also

1012
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: had to be in people what I did tweet Cruise

1013
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 1: back although he didn't tweet it, he said it, but

1014
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 1: I crafted tweet um saying, hey, take CRUs you say

1015
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 1: that Lisa Simpson is the Party of the Democrats like

1016
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 1: it's a bad thing. But I'm sure what you mean is,

1017
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 1: even though she sits across the aisle from me, I

1018
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 1: look forward to working with her on gun reform, um,

1019
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 1: l G B, t q I, equality and saving the planet.

1020
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 1: Smiley place that's perfect also that's a classic Lisa Simpson response, like,

1021
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 1: that's exactly exactly what she would have tweeted. And I think,

1022
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: you know, in this moment, we actually do have young, precocious, smart,

1023
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 1: badass young people leading the charge on this issue. And

1024
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 1: so I think Lisa Simpson is kind of this. This

1025
01:00:57,200 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 1: can be thought of as this sort of torch leading

1026
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:02,959
Speaker 1: the way of young people who are you know, being

1027
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 1: the voices of reason in this debate. It's so exciting,

1028
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 1: it's and clearly the only thing that has gotten these

1029
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 1: mostly white middle aged men to sit up and take notice,

1030
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 1: because God knows they're they're not listening to anybody else,

1031
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 1: including each other. By the way, so um, hats off

1032
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 1: to those survivors of the Parkland massacre. And what a

1033
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 1: tragedy that it has taken the events that transpired to

1034
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 1: affect that change. I mean, really, it's going to take

1035
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 1: that I find it. I mean, you if you, if

1036
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 1: you think about it for half a second, you can

1037
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 1: really get into how discouraging that is. But I think

1038
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 1: it's probably better to take the optimistic view and and

1039
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 1: cheer them on and join them in their fight. That's

1040
01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:59,120
Speaker 1: exactly what at least the would do that's what we're

1041
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:02,479
Speaker 1: doing here on stuff Mom never told you. Um terly,

1042
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for this. Uh just in

1043
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 1: terms of you know, here at stuff I've ever told you,

1044
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 1: we're trying to be all about radical transparency. So for

1045
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 1: our listeners out there that are thinking, oh, bridish, it

1046
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 1: sounds a bit strange today. One it's because I'm talking

1047
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 1: to one of my literal heroes. Uh too, It's because

1048
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 1: a little behind the scenes info We had done an

1049
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 1: entire interview earlier this week that was unfortunately lost in

1050
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,880
Speaker 1: the sauce, and Yardley was nice enough to talk to

1051
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: us again, and I honestly could not be more thrilled.

1052
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I grew up watching The Simpsons, idolizing the

1053
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:42,720
Speaker 1: Simpson finally feeling like I saw myself in a small

1054
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 1: way reflected on screen. And you were such a big

1055
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 1: part of that for me, And honestly, I'm so sure

1056
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 1: that you were such a big part of that for

1057
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: a generation of young women and girls. And so from

1058
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: the bottom of my heart, I thank you for talking

1059
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: to me today. I thank you for all of your

1060
01:02:56,080 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 1: amazing work really shaping our culture. I would say, Rachett,

1061
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 1: that's such a tall order what what an enormous compliment

1062
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 1: and really such a privilege always to hear that my

1063
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: work in some way has inspired in or comforted um

1064
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 1: anyone anywhere, and so to do hear that firsthand from

1065
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Speaker 1: you makes means the world to me. I really appreciate it. Well,

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Speaker 1: Smithy listeners, if you can't tell, that was pretty much

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Speaker 1: the coolest thing that has ever happened to me. And

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Speaker 1: I need to sign off so I can cry tears

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01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 1: of Joey, not really, but maybe a little. I want

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01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 1: to know what did you think of what Yardley had

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01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 1: to say? Can you identify with her quest for perfection?

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01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:48,040
Speaker 1: Was Lisa Simpsons someone that you looked up to growing up?

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01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:51,360
Speaker 1: Was your family more Simpsons than it was Huxtables or

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Speaker 1: Brady Bunch. We want to hear from you. Find us

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01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 1: on Instagram at stuff bomb ever told you, Find us

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01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, and as always I

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01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 1: love getting your email. Else at mom Stuff at House

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Speaker 1: of Works dot com. M