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Speaker 1: The School of Humans to be honest with views.

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Speaker 2: It happened so fast, and I mean I just woke

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Speaker 2: up to him banging in my house saying that he

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Speaker 2: just got shot. And the hell, my whole.

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Speaker 1: Porch just covered in blood right now, I mean, he

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Speaker 1: was just covered in blood.

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Speaker 3: On July thirtieth, twenty twenty, in Stark County, Indiana, a

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Speaker 3: nine to one to one call came from North County

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Speaker 3: Road ten to twenty five East just before three thirty am.

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Speaker 3: The caller had worked late that night. He had gotten

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Speaker 3: home and climbed into bed when he said that he

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Speaker 3: and his fiancee were woken up by someone pounding on

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Speaker 3: their door. The man was twenty seven year old Nicholas Rudd.

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Speaker 3: Nick said that he had been shot, but neither the

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Speaker 3: caller nor his fiancee had hurt any gunshots. What the

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Speaker 3: caller didn't know was that Nick had not been shot.

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Speaker 3: He had been attacked with a hammer and stabbed in

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Speaker 3: the neck. He was bleeding to death on their door step,

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Speaker 3: and the killer was still outside.

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Speaker 4: I'm Catherine Townsend.

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Speaker 3: Over the past five years of making my true crime podcast,

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Speaker 3: Helen Gone, I've learned that there is no such thing

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Speaker 3: as a small town where murder never happens. I have

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Speaker 3: received hundreds of messages from people all around the country

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Speaker 3: asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them,

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Speaker 3: their families, and their communities. If you have a case

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Speaker 3: you'd like me and my team to look into, you

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Speaker 3: can reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murder

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Speaker 3: line at six seven eight seven four four six one

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Speaker 3: four five. That's six seven eight seven four four six

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Speaker 3: one four five, or you can send us a message

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Speaker 3: on Instagram at Helen Gonepod. This is Helen Gone Murder Line.

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Speaker 3: So the caller refused to let Nick inside the house. Understandably,

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Speaker 3: they wanted to help, but they were also afraid and

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Speaker 3: wanted to assess the situation first, so they called nine

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Speaker 3: one one, but by the time nine one one got there,

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Speaker 3: Nick was gone. Nick ran to another neighbor's house. Now

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Speaker 3: by this time Nick was bleeding to death. When he

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Speaker 3: got to another neighbor's home, he collapsed. The neighbor ran

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Speaker 3: out into her porch and tried to help him, while

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Speaker 3: also calling nine one one and putting towels over Nick's wounds.

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Speaker 3: While she tried to render first aid. She told the

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Speaker 3: dispatcher that she was talking to Nick. The dispatcher asked

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Speaker 3: the caller to keep talking to him, to ask who

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Speaker 3: shot him?

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Speaker 1: Okay? Can he answer you?

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Speaker 5: Yes?

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Speaker 6: Okay?

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Speaker 5: Who shot.

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Speaker 7: He says he can't breathe.

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Speaker 5: Okay?

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Speaker 4: Did he say who shot him?

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Speaker 2: Honey?

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Speaker 1: That's I need to know, he said, She said, a

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Speaker 1: bald guy.

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Speaker 4: It's very hard to hear.

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Speaker 3: Nick is gasping for air, but the caller was able

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Speaker 3: to get him to say that his name was Nicholas,

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Speaker 3: and Nick said a bald guy had shot him. He

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Speaker 3: died before the paramedics arrived. Police rushed to the scene

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Speaker 3: and quickly realized that Nick had not been shot. He

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Speaker 3: had actually been stabbed. He had defensive wounds on his

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Speaker 3: right arm and a fatal stab wound to his neck.

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Speaker 3: After that s woon, he would have bled out in minutes.

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Speaker 3: But who would want to kill Nick?

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Speaker 4: And why?

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Speaker 3: Nick was twenty seven years old, and though we had

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Speaker 3: a troubled past and became involved with drugs in high school,

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Speaker 3: he had seemed to be trying to get to a

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Speaker 3: better place. He grew up in North Judson, Indiana. It's

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Speaker 3: suburban with a population of about twelve hundred, and like

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Speaker 3: any small town, it's somewhere where everyone seems to know

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Speaker 3: each other, but it's also a place that has had

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Speaker 3: its share of property crimes, drugs, and violence. We talked

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Speaker 3: to Nick's friend Cliff Gosh.

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Speaker 1: I met Nick in fifth or fourth grade. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think he just came back from moved back from Georgia.

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Speaker 2: And we met. We got along pretty much right away, and.

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Speaker 1: We were friends for probably the good part of like

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Speaker 1: ten years, probably best friends all the way through high school.

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Speaker 1: We were pretty much inseparable, everything from like playing guitar

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Speaker 1: and chasing girls, you know, going to party. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's just the high school kids. I think we were

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Speaker 1: safe havings for each other for a lot of things

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Speaker 1: in high school. I know, he had like a really

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Speaker 1: crappy upbringing, and.

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Speaker 2: You know, he would come to stay and me with

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Speaker 2: me and my dad for like a week at a time,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: So we were super close, and then we had a

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Speaker 1: bit of a falling out because he was doing bad stuff.

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Speaker 3: Cliff said that during high school, Nick got into drugs,

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Speaker 3: beginning with marijuana and then eventually methamphetamines. Nick also got

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Speaker 3: involved in crime, and Cliff believed some of those early

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Speaker 3: decisions changed Nick's life Eventually, Cliff said that Nick stole

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Speaker 3: Cliff's father's identity, which led to Nick being arrested and

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Speaker 3: convicted of forgery in twenty eleven. According to court records,

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Speaker 3: he was sentenced to eighteen months in prison.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was pretty much out of our relationship. I

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Speaker 1: didn't talk to him, So we didn't talk for like

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Speaker 1: six years.

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Speaker 3: Nick had been in a relation relationship with the mother

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Speaker 3: of his daughter, and when he got out, the relationship

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Speaker 3: ended acrimoniously after a custody battle. Nick's family said that

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Speaker 3: he no longer saw his daughter. Then he got married

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Speaker 3: to Destiny in twenty fourteen. His family said that she

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Speaker 3: was a very good influence on Nick. They had two

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Speaker 3: sons together, and for a while life was good.

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Speaker 4: It looked like.

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Speaker 3: His life had started to turn around. Cliff said that

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Speaker 3: he actually ran into Nick just a few days before

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Speaker 3: he died.

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Speaker 1: It's it was difficult because we had you done so

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Speaker 1: much for each other. I know, like he's made bad

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Speaker 1: decisions or whatever, but like I always wanted to be

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Speaker 1: his friend, to be there for him.

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Speaker 2: So when I seen him, he was like, hey, man,

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Speaker 2: like you know, you know I'm doing good.

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Speaker 1: We should hang out, play some guitar, and I kind

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Speaker 1: of just say, you know, I don't know, it's still

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Speaker 1: kind of I was almost there, but not lay there,

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Speaker 1: and it's a little I get hold of them.

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Speaker 3: So that was after them, But those times didn't last.

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Speaker 3: A few months before he died, Nick and his wife Destiny, separated.

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Speaker 3: Since he was no longer living at home, he started

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Speaker 3: staying on and off with friends, including a guy named

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Speaker 3: Brandon Combs. On the night he was killed, Nick was

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Speaker 3: hanging out about half a mile away with his sister Stephanie. Stephanie,

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Speaker 3: by the way, knew Brandon from way back. Also, like

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Speaker 3: I said, it's a small town. Nick was planning on

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Speaker 3: going back to Brandon's. At this point, he'd been staying

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Speaker 3: at Brandon's for a few weeks. Stephanie said that she

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Speaker 3: was texting back and forth with Brandon to ask when

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Speaker 3: he would be home, and that finally, I think around

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Speaker 3: three am, Brandon texted back to say that he was

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Speaker 3: there at his house. So Stephanie drove Nick there. When

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Speaker 3: they got there, she went in Brandon's house with Nick.

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Speaker 6: And so when we went down there, I was out

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Speaker 6: of milk at the house, so I got.

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Speaker 2: Some milk from Brandon and I just made sure.

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Speaker 6: I told him to make sure Nicholas got to say,

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Speaker 6: you know, he needed to get to sleep, not to

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Speaker 6: little leave or go with anybody. And he was I mean,

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Speaker 6: he acted normal to me. But like I said, I

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Speaker 6: was using at the time. But as far as I

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Speaker 6: can remember, Brandon act was perfectly normal. The only weird

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Speaker 6: thing is get a huge TV in his room, and

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Speaker 6: that's where that him and Nicholas were at, and he

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Speaker 6: had all of his degree cameras put up on the

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Speaker 6: you know, they were pulled up so you could see

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Speaker 6: every angle of the house.

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Speaker 3: Stephanie left minutes later, and then a few minutes after that,

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Speaker 3: the killer approached the house with a hammer in one

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Speaker 3: hand and a spearlike object in the other. Police quickly

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Speaker 3: figured out the killer kicked the door of Brandon's house down.

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Speaker 3: Brandon and Nick ran out the back. Nick was carrying

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Speaker 3: the hammer when he left the house, so obviously he

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Speaker 3: fought his killer, and then the killer continued to chase

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Speaker 3: him to the neighbor's house. That's where he was stabbed

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Speaker 3: in the neck, which ended up being the fatal wound.

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Speaker 3: He also had a defensive wound on his upper right arm,

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Speaker 3: which he probably sustained while fighting for his life. Brandon's

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Speaker 3: house in the neighbor's houses quickly became crime scenes. After

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Speaker 3: police checked security cameras, they found that Brandon's house did

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Speaker 3: have a camera outside the front door. Unfortunately, there was

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Speaker 3: no footage of the fatal attack, but there was footage

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Speaker 3: of the killer.

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Speaker 4: Lieutenant Calea.

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Speaker 3: Miller described the footage and said, quote, just before that

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Speaker 3: nine to one one call was made, there was a

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Speaker 3: male suspect seen kicking in the door of the home

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Speaker 3: and it appears that the suspect is armed with a

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Speaker 3: hammer and bladed object. He gains entry, we see Nick

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Speaker 3: run out. He is being chased running toward the house

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Speaker 3: where they called nine one one end quote. This footage

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Speaker 3: has not been shown to the public, but Nick's mother, Michelle,

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Speaker 3: and sister Stephanie were allowed to view it at the

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Speaker 3: police station.

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Speaker 2: So you see Nick running out of the house.

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Speaker 7: Nick runs off the porch and he runs into the

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Speaker 7: grass that you can't see him because he run into

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Speaker 7: the house next door. It is a thirty or forty

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Speaker 7: five seconds time before this guy comes out of the

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Speaker 7: house after Nick, a good thirty to forty five seconds,

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Speaker 7: and Nick when he comes out before this guy. He's

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Speaker 7: got the hammer whatever it is, in his hand. I'm

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Speaker 7: sure he fought with the guy. You more or less

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Speaker 7: see the time of the image in the light itself.

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Speaker 7: Walking along the road is Brandon's house. From the porch

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Speaker 7: to the road was not even thirty forty feet something

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Speaker 7: like that, so Nick, of course the guy was looking

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Speaker 7: for Nick.

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Speaker 2: Nick was hiding.

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Speaker 3: Michelle talked to local media and the police. Eventually the

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Speaker 3: police did release an image to the public. They gave

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Speaker 3: it crime stoppers and hope that someone might see something

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Speaker 3: something that would be able to help solve the case.

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Speaker 3: The photograph was taken on night vision and for red camera,

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Speaker 3: so it's very blown out. Everything looks white, but it

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Speaker 3: appears as though the killer was wearing a dark colored

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Speaker 3: possibly a black suit and hoodie. And just thinking back

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Speaker 3: to what Nick said about a bald man shooting him,

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Speaker 3: the killer may have been bald, but in the image,

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Speaker 3: he also looked as if he could have been wearing

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Speaker 3: something that covered his hair, possibly a ball of clava,

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Speaker 3: and it looks like he may even have a mask

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Speaker 3: covering his face. It's just really hard to tell due

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Speaker 3: to the lighting. He also seemed to have on some

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Speaker 3: sort of protective goggles. By the way, I'm saying he

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Speaker 3: because the police have described the suspect as male, obviously

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Speaker 3: we don't know for sure. It does appear to be

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Speaker 3: a male, but that's really all we know. Because the

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Speaker 3: killer was in disguise, we also know he was carrying

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Speaker 3: a hammer in one hand and something else in the other.

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Speaker 3: We talked to the detective in charge the investigation, who

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Speaker 3: confirmed that the killer was holding a homemade weapon of

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Speaker 3: some kind, some type of spear attached to what appeared

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Speaker 3: to be a cattle prod.

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Speaker 4: Stephanie is very.

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Speaker 3: Open about the fact that at the time her brother died,

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Speaker 3: she was a heroin dealer, and she revealed that Nick

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Speaker 3: had also recently begun using heroin. His drug usage was

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Speaker 3: one of the reasons he and his wife, Destiny separated.

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Speaker 3: But besides Stephanie and Nick, Stephanie said almost no one

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Speaker 3: else knew that he was using heroin. Along with the

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Speaker 3: footage from the first caller's front door, police also found

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Speaker 3: video of the front of Brandon's house taken from a

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Speaker 3: doorbell camera. Again, they have not made this footage public,

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Speaker 3: but Michelle and Stephanie have seen it, and they described

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Speaker 3: what they saw to us. The footage shows stephanielling up

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Speaker 3: to Brandon's at around three fifteen am, and then Nick

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Speaker 3: getting out of the car. They both went inside the

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Speaker 3: house for a few minutes. Then the video shows Stephanie

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Speaker 3: going back to her car alone and her vehicle leaving.

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Speaker 3: Then just minutes later, the killer approaches the door. But

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Speaker 3: we don't know where the killer came from. Did he

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Speaker 3: drive there, did he park somewhere or with someone else

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Speaker 3: driving a getaway car. Nick's family finds the timing suspicious.

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Speaker 3: They wonder how did the killer know to come to

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Speaker 3: Brandon's house right after Stephanie left. Stephanie said that due

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Speaker 3: to her drug dealing, she changed vehicles frequently. She said

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Speaker 3: that only a few people knew what kind of car

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Speaker 3: she would be in that night. Was this a coincidence

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Speaker 3: or they wonder could it have been some kind of setup?

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Speaker 3: In that video, right before the killer arrived, Michelle said

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Speaker 3: she could see a car passing Brandon's house. She wondered,

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Speaker 3: could this be the killer?

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Speaker 7: This car drives by really and you can't it's black

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Speaker 7: and white. You can't see the car. You see the lights,

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Speaker 7: you see the headlights, So it passes the house and

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Speaker 7: it probably goes down from just what we gather because.

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Speaker 2: Of the guy walking up to the back porch.

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Speaker 7: He probably goes down and then somebody gets out whatever,

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Speaker 7: and then there's a little side road, and so within

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Speaker 7: a few minutes you see this guy walking up to

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Speaker 7: the deck.

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Speaker 2: Brandon had like patio doors.

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Speaker 7: They were glassed, which is what is another strange thing

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Speaker 7: to me, That you're in the back and not facing

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Speaker 7: the road. You're in the back of the house. He

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Speaker 7: wanted to break in, Right, there's your patio doors. You're

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Speaker 7: looking through them. Then the guy looks heard of the camera.

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Speaker 3: In the video, the killer approaches the house and then

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Speaker 3: kicks the door down and walks inside. About forty five

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Speaker 3: seconds later, by Michelle and Stephanie's descriptions, you can see

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Speaker 3: Brandon coming around from the back of the house. He

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Speaker 3: apparently crawled out of a window and Nick followed him.

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Speaker 3: After they got out of the house, the video shows

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Speaker 3: them taking off in separate directions. Nick ran toward the

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Speaker 3: first caller's house and Brandon, well, it's not clear where

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Speaker 3: he goes.

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Speaker 4: Police found him the next day.

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Speaker 7: They didn't find him until like three or four o'clock

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Speaker 7: that next afternoon.

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Speaker 4: Oh where did he go.

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Speaker 7: He supposedly fell asleep at a ditch bank, that's what

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Speaker 7: he said. When they finally found him, he told a

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Speaker 7: story that he climbed out the window, which is a coward,

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Speaker 7: and he said that Nick was behind him, because when

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Speaker 7: the guy comes up to the porch and kicks the

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Speaker 7: door down, So when the guy goes to the back

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Speaker 7: then you don't see him. But then he comes up

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Speaker 7: to the front porch, of course, and he kicks the

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Speaker 7: door for five or six times at least. Yes, he

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Speaker 7: takes his leg and he's kicking this door.

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Speaker 3: A lot of rumors were flying around after Nick's death,

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Speaker 3: but everyone seemed to agree on one thing. They believed

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Speaker 3: that the killing had been a hit, that someone went

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Speaker 3: there that night because they were targeting someone at that house,

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00:16:03,405 --> 00:16:08,085
Speaker 3: probably nicko commenting on these rumors on social media, and

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Speaker 3: there were even comments about potential suspects on Nick's obituary,

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Speaker 3: asking about two people whose names we keep hearing. We

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Speaker 3: will call them Jay and h their first initials because

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Speaker 3: they have not been arrested or charged with anything. In fact,

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00:16:23,325 --> 00:16:25,685
Speaker 3: no one has been arrested or charged at all in

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Speaker 3: connection with Nick Rudd's murder. Jay was Michelle's cousin, Stephanie,

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Speaker 3: said that she believed Nick had been spending time with

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Speaker 3: Jay's girlfriend. Jay was much older in his fifties, while

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Speaker 3: his girlfriend was closer to Nick's. Ah H was a

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Speaker 3: younger friend of Jay's, so there is a rumor that

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Speaker 3: Nick may have been involved in a love triangle with Jay.

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Speaker 4: But another mode of.

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00:16:48,525 --> 00:16:51,725
Speaker 3: People mentioned was drugs, that Nick might owe money to

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Speaker 3: someone for drugs. In fact, Michelle said that one of

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00:16:55,645 --> 00:16:58,925
Speaker 3: the last texts that Nick sent her involved a drug

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00:16:58,965 --> 00:16:59,885
Speaker 3: debt to Jay.

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Speaker 7: And one of the texts that he had sent Nick

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Speaker 7: one probably the last text that he sent Nick was

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Speaker 7: you know about if he get paid, He's get a killing.

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Speaker 3: So drug debts do seem like they could be a

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Speaker 3: possible motive, but something police told Nick's family made them

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Speaker 3: believe money was not the motive.

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Speaker 2: Here.

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Speaker 3: The police recovered nick wallet from his body and it

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Speaker 3: had five hundred dollars in it, So if money was

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Speaker 3: the motive, surely the killers would have taken that cash.

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Speaker 3: And in talking to local sources, we have not so

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Speaker 3: far found any evidence of a big drug debt. It

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Speaker 3: appears that the debt that Nick o Jay was around

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Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty or two hundred dollars, which doesn't

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Speaker 3: seem on the surface like an amount that would cause

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Speaker 3: someone to take the risk to kill.

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Speaker 4: After Nick Rudd was.

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Speaker 3: Murdered, rumors were flying about possible people of interest, people

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Speaker 3: who supposedly had recent conflicts with Nick. But there were

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Speaker 3: more and more rumors flying around, one involving a love triangle.

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Speaker 3: So might there have been another reason why Jay would

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Speaker 3: have wanted to hurt Nick. As rumors were flying around

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00:18:13,125 --> 00:18:18,005
Speaker 3: Stark County, Indiana, online commenters and Nick's family started suspecting

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Speaker 3: a couple of different motives involving Jay. One that was

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Speaker 3: seeming less and less likely was money. The other was

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Speaker 3: a love triangle. Stephanie said that Jay had a girlfriend

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Speaker 3: and that Nick was in some way involved with this woman.

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Speaker 3: If this is true, it could have made Jay or

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Speaker 3: someone who knew Jay angry. Jay is apparently older, in

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00:18:38,165 --> 00:18:41,845
Speaker 3: his fifties, but people who have seen the photo and

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00:18:41,965 --> 00:18:45,725
Speaker 3: no Jay have told us that Jay has a very

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00:18:45,765 --> 00:18:49,645
Speaker 3: distinctive look, and everyone who has seen the photos agreed

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Speaker 3: the killer looks like a much younger man and also

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Speaker 3: just does not seem to match Jay's description. So Nick's

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00:18:57,365 --> 00:19:01,365
Speaker 3: family wonders if Jay could have possibly hired someone to

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Speaker 3: target Nick. One theory discussed was that Jay and ten

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Speaker 3: for his hip man to just beat Nick up or

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00:19:08,645 --> 00:19:12,045
Speaker 3: scare him, but then Nick surprised the killer by grabbing

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Speaker 3: the hammer and fighting back. I want to back up

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Speaker 3: a bit and talk about some misconceptions about hit men,

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Speaker 3: or to be less sexist, I could say hired assassins,

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00:19:22,125 --> 00:19:23,885
Speaker 3: but just know when I say hit man, I mean

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Speaker 3: hit man and hit women when we see movies. Normally,

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Speaker 3: these assassins are glamorous James Vond style figures like villain

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Speaker 3: l and Killing Eve, or professionals who are quirky like

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Speaker 3: John Cusack and Gross point blank.

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Speaker 4: But the reality is very different.

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Speaker 3: And as someone who handles a lot of fraud cases

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Speaker 3: from my other podcast, Red Collar, I know that most

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Speaker 3: hit men are not like that normally. Very often they're

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Speaker 3: low level gangsters who carry out hits for very little money,

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Speaker 3: a lot of four and five figure amounts, and they

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00:19:55,165 --> 00:19:57,845
Speaker 3: tend to make a lot of mistakes because when you

360
00:19:57,925 --> 00:20:01,165
Speaker 3: hire hit man, you get what you pay for. Also,

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00:20:01,565 --> 00:20:03,565
Speaker 3: a lot of times people who want to kill someone

362
00:20:03,885 --> 00:20:06,445
Speaker 3: will hire one of these low rent hit men, and

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00:20:06,525 --> 00:20:08,565
Speaker 3: to do that they go to their circle of friends.

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00:20:09,125 --> 00:20:11,325
Speaker 3: Now this means there is more loyalty there, but it's

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00:20:11,325 --> 00:20:14,365
Speaker 3: also big problem because there is a connection between the

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00:20:14,405 --> 00:20:17,485
Speaker 3: person who hired the assassin and the assassin. They are friends,

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Speaker 3: they hang out together, and if one of them gets

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Speaker 3: busted by the police, likely sold the other one. There

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00:20:23,605 --> 00:20:26,925
Speaker 3: was a study in twenty fourteen by Birmingham City University

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Speaker 3: in the UK. The professor who ran the study told

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Speaker 3: NBC News quote, these images are Hollywood eyes. The hit

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Speaker 3: man seems like quite an attractive image that people are

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Speaker 3: responding to. They are professional, very confident, hyper masculine.

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Speaker 4: End quote. He goes on to explain that that's a

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Speaker 4: total myth.

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Speaker 3: The professor said, these hits are not taking place in

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Speaker 3: internationally glamorous locations like casinos. They're happening while people are

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00:20:52,005 --> 00:20:54,805
Speaker 3: out walking their dogs or coming home from the grocery store.

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Speaker 3: He said, quote, the hits were not in the underworld.

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Speaker 3: They were in the overworld, and usually with passers by

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Speaker 3: as witnesses looking on in abject horror.

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Speaker 4: End quote.

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Speaker 3: He had some other interesting statistics that I'll share just

384
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Speaker 3: because I am actually fascinated by this stuff. He said,

385
00:21:10,565 --> 00:21:12,605
Speaker 3: Tuesday is the most common day of the week for

386
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Speaker 3: a hit. March, May and July are the most common months,

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00:21:16,925 --> 00:21:20,725
Speaker 3: and the average cost of killing someone is just over

388
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Speaker 3: twenty five thousand dollars. The highest payout he saw was

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00:21:24,525 --> 00:21:27,045
Speaker 3: one hundred and sixty eight thousand dollars, but this was

390
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Speaker 3: back in twenty fourteen, so it might.

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Speaker 4: Have gone up since then.

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Speaker 3: I do find the dark part of myself wondering, as

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Speaker 3: someone who studies this stuff, if hit man are affected

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00:21:35,925 --> 00:21:41,685
Speaker 3: by inflation. The study broke hitman down into four types.

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Speaker 3: Type one they called the novice. This is the inexperienced

396
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Speaker 3: killer like someone's high school cousin, or the very young

397
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Speaker 3: gang members send out in a hit because he's probably

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Speaker 3: too young to be prosecuted, at least that's what the

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00:21:52,845 --> 00:21:56,405
Speaker 3: other members believe. The second type is called the diletant.

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Speaker 3: This is the type of hit man who doesn't really

401
00:21:59,485 --> 00:22:01,485
Speaker 3: want to go through with a hit. When I think

402
00:22:01,485 --> 00:22:03,725
Speaker 3: of the diletant type, I think of the Robert Marshall

403
00:22:03,725 --> 00:22:06,085
Speaker 3: case is a great example of this. This guy was

404
00:22:06,085 --> 00:22:08,845
Speaker 3: living in Tom's River, New Jersey. He wanted to kill

405
00:22:08,845 --> 00:22:11,045
Speaker 3: his wife Maria because he was living way beyond his

406
00:22:11,125 --> 00:22:14,125
Speaker 3: means and having an affair. He couldn't afford to divorce Maria,

407
00:22:14,165 --> 00:22:16,805
Speaker 3: so we hired a hit man from Louisiana. But the

408
00:22:16,885 --> 00:22:20,005
Speaker 3: hit man, for a long time just kept taking Robert

409
00:22:20,005 --> 00:22:23,365
Speaker 3: Marshall's money and blowing him off. Because it turned out

410
00:22:23,405 --> 00:22:26,125
Speaker 3: he actually had a lot of sympathy for Robert Marshall's wife.

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Speaker 3: He didn't really want to kill her, but in the

412
00:22:28,605 --> 00:22:31,245
Speaker 3: end he had taken so much money that he basically

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00:22:31,245 --> 00:22:32,365
Speaker 3: felt he had to go.

414
00:22:32,365 --> 00:22:32,885
Speaker 4: Through with it.

415
00:22:33,605 --> 00:22:35,565
Speaker 3: But because he didn't want to do it himself, he

416
00:22:35,645 --> 00:22:38,005
Speaker 3: brought another accomplice in, which is part of the reason

417
00:22:38,005 --> 00:22:40,725
Speaker 3: he ended up getting caught. The third type of hit

418
00:22:40,805 --> 00:22:43,485
Speaker 3: man they call the journeyman. They explained it in the

419
00:22:43,485 --> 00:22:45,645
Speaker 3: news story as a hit man like John Travolta and

420
00:22:45,725 --> 00:22:49,245
Speaker 3: Samuel L. Jackson's characters in pulp fiction. This is the calm,

421
00:22:49,285 --> 00:22:52,405
Speaker 3: cool and collected hit man. Then there's probably the rarest

422
00:22:52,405 --> 00:22:55,885
Speaker 3: type the group of criminologists conducting the study called the Master.

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Speaker 3: According to NBC, these guys are hard to study because

424
00:22:59,445 --> 00:23:01,405
Speaker 3: when they do carry out a hit, it looks like

425
00:23:01,445 --> 00:23:04,245
Speaker 3: an accident or something random, so most of the time

426
00:23:04,285 --> 00:23:07,805
Speaker 3: they're floating around out there not getting caught. They mostly

427
00:23:07,845 --> 00:23:10,365
Speaker 3: have military backgrounds and her weapons experts.

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00:23:10,965 --> 00:23:12,925
Speaker 4: As I said, a lot of people who have.

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Speaker 3: Looked at Nick Rudd's case agrees that this was some

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00:23:16,845 --> 00:23:23,325
Speaker 3: kind of targeted hit. As we know, Nick was separated

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00:23:23,365 --> 00:23:25,445
Speaker 3: from his wife in the months before his murder. He

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00:23:25,485 --> 00:23:29,765
Speaker 3: had been staying with his friend Brandon. According to Nick's sister, Stephanie,

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00:23:29,805 --> 00:23:32,845
Speaker 3: both Nick and Brandon were involved in drugs during this time.

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Speaker 3: So there are a few possibilities here. One that the

435
00:23:36,405 --> 00:23:39,045
Speaker 3: killer was targeting Brandon or maybe just trying to steal

436
00:23:39,125 --> 00:23:42,205
Speaker 3: drugs from him, and that Nick coming there was something

437
00:23:42,205 --> 00:23:45,565
Speaker 3: the killer hadn't counted on, or this could have been

438
00:23:45,645 --> 00:23:49,165
Speaker 3: some kind of a setup. Brandon had security cameras in

439
00:23:49,205 --> 00:23:53,805
Speaker 3: his back bedroom. Stephanie has wondered why he didn't see

440
00:23:53,805 --> 00:23:56,965
Speaker 3: the killer circling the house. By the way, the police

441
00:23:57,005 --> 00:24:01,445
Speaker 3: also questioned Stephanie extensively. She was very forthcoming about this.

442
00:24:01,565 --> 00:24:03,885
Speaker 3: She believes they questioned her due to the fact that

443
00:24:03,925 --> 00:24:05,965
Speaker 3: she dropped Nick off and because she was a drug

444
00:24:06,045 --> 00:24:10,925
Speaker 3: user and dealer. Also, after police found Brandon the next day,

445
00:24:11,445 --> 00:24:15,125
Speaker 3: remember he'd allegedly slept outside, he was taken into custody

446
00:24:15,125 --> 00:24:19,245
Speaker 3: in question, but Brandon was never charged with anything connected

447
00:24:19,285 --> 00:24:22,765
Speaker 3: to next death, and then the case seemed to stall.

448
00:24:23,765 --> 00:24:26,725
Speaker 3: Michelle talked about her frustrations with the police during this time.

449
00:24:27,205 --> 00:24:29,765
Speaker 3: She believed that they had written this off as just

450
00:24:29,805 --> 00:24:30,765
Speaker 3: another drug murder.

451
00:24:31,565 --> 00:24:34,485
Speaker 7: Stark County is very small. There's three towns in a

452
00:24:34,525 --> 00:24:38,805
Speaker 7: val Stark County in Indiana. There's North Judson where I live, Knox,

453
00:24:39,165 --> 00:24:43,085
Speaker 7: which is where that happened at, and then there's Orban Davis.

454
00:24:43,405 --> 00:24:45,045
Speaker 2: It's all small, very very small.

455
00:24:45,645 --> 00:24:49,125
Speaker 7: Nothing even the three counties, the three areas combined still

456
00:24:49,125 --> 00:24:52,685
Speaker 7: wouldn't make up a small city to you. Probably, so

457
00:24:52,845 --> 00:24:56,085
Speaker 7: everybody knows everything, like especially you know how that is

458
00:24:56,125 --> 00:24:59,685
Speaker 7: in small town talk and talk and gossip. We've heard

459
00:24:59,685 --> 00:25:02,285
Speaker 7: so many different stories. I couldn't even and I wish

460
00:25:02,885 --> 00:25:05,005
Speaker 7: looking back, and of course I wasn't even in my

461
00:25:05,085 --> 00:25:08,805
Speaker 7: right mind, I wrote I would have wrote down everything,

462
00:25:09,405 --> 00:25:11,645
Speaker 7: but I didn't didn't even know the importance of that,

463
00:25:12,565 --> 00:25:14,645
Speaker 7: because I'm sure I've forgotten a lot of things. And

464
00:25:15,965 --> 00:25:19,045
Speaker 7: some of the things was repetitive, you know. And so

465
00:25:19,125 --> 00:25:22,525
Speaker 7: two of the detectives that Stark County, it's out of Knox,

466
00:25:22,605 --> 00:25:26,125
Speaker 7: the Stark County Sheriff's department, well, they had like probably

467
00:25:26,125 --> 00:25:28,685
Speaker 7: three detectives on the case, right away.

468
00:25:29,445 --> 00:25:33,205
Speaker 2: It was just like Barney Fife. I'm not even kidding, Uh,

469
00:25:33,485 --> 00:25:34,645
Speaker 2: it was it was a joke.

470
00:25:35,445 --> 00:25:40,885
Speaker 7: They had really probably never investigated a homicide before and

471
00:25:40,925 --> 00:25:42,045
Speaker 7: they were thrown into it.

472
00:25:42,965 --> 00:25:47,085
Speaker 3: But recently police agreed to let Stephanie and Michelle rewatch

473
00:25:47,125 --> 00:25:50,085
Speaker 3: the video of the night that Nick was murdered. Stephanie

474
00:25:50,125 --> 00:25:53,365
Speaker 3: and Michelle said since they had been talking to this podcast,

475
00:25:53,845 --> 00:25:56,605
Speaker 3: they felt that the police were being more responsive to them.

476
00:25:58,365 --> 00:26:01,325
Speaker 5: You've been involved with the podcast. They've been getting a

477
00:26:01,325 --> 00:26:03,645
Speaker 5: lot more phone calls, which you know, obviously some of

478
00:26:03,645 --> 00:26:08,285
Speaker 5: those are crap, you know, but yeah, yeah, but there's

479
00:26:08,325 --> 00:26:11,685
Speaker 5: more people, you know, people are talking again. He did

480
00:26:11,805 --> 00:26:13,525
Speaker 5: inform us that he had gotten a tip that day.

481
00:26:13,565 --> 00:26:15,845
Speaker 5: Of course, he didn't say what it was or who

482
00:26:15,885 --> 00:26:17,605
Speaker 5: it was, but he did say that they had had

483
00:26:17,605 --> 00:26:17,965
Speaker 5: a call.

484
00:26:19,205 --> 00:26:21,725
Speaker 3: Stephanie told us that when she and her mother rewatched

485
00:26:21,765 --> 00:26:24,845
Speaker 3: the video, they found themselves focusing on details that they

486
00:26:24,845 --> 00:26:28,205
Speaker 3: had not noticed before. And again, these are details that

487
00:26:28,245 --> 00:26:29,365
Speaker 3: have never been made public.

488
00:26:30,165 --> 00:26:32,845
Speaker 5: I did notice, and I told the detectives. I thought

489
00:26:32,885 --> 00:26:35,445
Speaker 5: it was just kind of funny saying it. But in

490
00:26:35,445 --> 00:26:37,725
Speaker 5: the one clip of the guy walking around back, he

491
00:26:37,885 --> 00:26:39,885
Speaker 5: bends over at some point in time. I don't know

492
00:26:39,885 --> 00:26:42,605
Speaker 5: if he dropped something, but he could tell when he

493
00:26:42,685 --> 00:26:46,165
Speaker 5: bent over, like his clothing stretched around it, and you

494
00:26:46,165 --> 00:26:48,405
Speaker 5: could see that he was a little sicker on the hips.

495
00:26:48,485 --> 00:26:52,525
Speaker 5: And so then he walked around and I got to

496
00:26:52,605 --> 00:26:54,805
Speaker 5: watch the video footage that they showed us. It was

497
00:26:54,845 --> 00:26:57,365
Speaker 5: not the original footage that I got to see. It

498
00:26:57,445 --> 00:27:00,485
Speaker 5: was from up. It was up closer, and it was

499
00:27:00,525 --> 00:27:03,725
Speaker 5: at a different direction. The camera the one camera that

500
00:27:03,765 --> 00:27:08,005
Speaker 5: they showed us the footage on, and it was in color,

501
00:27:08,725 --> 00:27:10,685
Speaker 5: and we got to see. I know it's hard to watch,

502
00:27:10,685 --> 00:27:13,805
Speaker 5: but it was Nick running out and then it takes

503
00:27:13,805 --> 00:27:17,125
Speaker 5: a while and then the guy runs out after him.

504
00:27:17,885 --> 00:27:20,485
Speaker 3: Stephanie said the way the person in the video walked

505
00:27:20,485 --> 00:27:23,765
Speaker 3: reminded her of someone. We won't use their name here

506
00:27:23,845 --> 00:27:26,725
Speaker 3: because it's not someone police, to our knowledge, have ever

507
00:27:26,845 --> 00:27:29,605
Speaker 3: mentioned in their investigation at all, and we're not sure

508
00:27:29,605 --> 00:27:33,205
Speaker 3: if they've ever even interviewed this person. Stephanie also said

509
00:27:33,485 --> 00:27:36,525
Speaker 3: she noticed something else when she rewatched the video, the

510
00:27:36,525 --> 00:27:38,685
Speaker 3: fact that the killer walked around to the back of

511
00:27:38,685 --> 00:27:42,085
Speaker 3: the house with the glass patio and made a point

512
00:27:42,125 --> 00:27:44,325
Speaker 3: to come back to the front door to gain entry

513
00:27:44,365 --> 00:27:44,845
Speaker 3: to the house.

514
00:27:51,085 --> 00:27:53,645
Speaker 5: A year prior to all this happening, probably a little

515
00:27:53,645 --> 00:27:56,885
Speaker 5: over year, the couse rated Brandon's house to arrest him

516
00:27:57,045 --> 00:27:59,845
Speaker 5: and literally tried to kick the door in, and eventually

517
00:27:59,845 --> 00:28:01,845
Speaker 5: they had to knock on the door ass be let

518
00:28:01,885 --> 00:28:04,125
Speaker 5: in so they could do this raid because they couldn't.

519
00:28:03,805 --> 00:28:04,565
Speaker 2: Get into the house.

520
00:28:06,325 --> 00:28:10,005
Speaker 5: Brendan had reinforced his door so instead of just you

521
00:28:10,045 --> 00:28:12,845
Speaker 5: know when you put a new door knob on your door,

522
00:28:13,405 --> 00:28:16,445
Speaker 5: instead of those little screws that come in the pack

523
00:28:16,525 --> 00:28:18,965
Speaker 5: that's only like an inch or too long. Yeah, he

524
00:28:19,125 --> 00:28:22,405
Speaker 5: put in like seven eight inch nails like screws through

525
00:28:22,445 --> 00:28:26,485
Speaker 5: the side of the house. So it was reinforced really good. Yeah,

526
00:28:26,645 --> 00:28:28,565
Speaker 5: the guy when he walks up, which I thought was

527
00:28:28,685 --> 00:28:30,485
Speaker 5: kind of and it could have been just a coincidence

528
00:28:30,485 --> 00:28:33,085
Speaker 5: that he did it, but when he walks up, he

529
00:28:33,245 --> 00:28:34,965
Speaker 5: kicked the door in. Before he even kicked the door,

530
00:28:34,965 --> 00:28:36,725
Speaker 5: and he goes to turn the handle like it's like

531
00:28:36,805 --> 00:28:39,685
Speaker 5: he's it's like, I need it to be unlocked. Yeah

532
00:28:40,445 --> 00:28:42,325
Speaker 5: that I know, I locked the door when I walked out,

533
00:28:42,445 --> 00:28:45,885
Speaker 5: so maybe maybe it was opposed to be unlocked, you know.

534
00:28:46,925 --> 00:28:49,725
Speaker 3: Chief Detective David Combs from the Stark County Sheriff's Office

535
00:28:49,765 --> 00:28:52,925
Speaker 3: emailed us and said that h J and Brandon have

536
00:28:53,045 --> 00:28:57,605
Speaker 3: all been interviewed several times. He said, quote, currently, I'm

537
00:28:57,645 --> 00:29:00,565
Speaker 3: not comfortable saying that anyone has been ruled out. As

538
00:29:00,605 --> 00:29:04,085
Speaker 3: of right now, there has not been any suspect DNA identified.

539
00:29:04,565 --> 00:29:07,765
Speaker 3: I've revisited the crime scene and reviewed crime scene photographs

540
00:29:08,125 --> 00:29:11,365
Speaker 3: end quote. There are still a lot of questions in

541
00:29:11,405 --> 00:29:15,525
Speaker 3: this case, like was Nick the target that night, and

542
00:29:15,565 --> 00:29:18,525
Speaker 3: if so, who wanted him dead, who set him up?

543
00:29:18,565 --> 00:29:22,045
Speaker 3: And whin who is the bald guy? Was that a

544
00:29:22,085 --> 00:29:25,725
Speaker 3: crucial clue or just something random? He blurted out. The

545
00:29:25,845 --> 00:29:28,245
Speaker 3: killer may have been wearing a mask or a balaklava.

546
00:29:28,725 --> 00:29:30,965
Speaker 3: That could either mean that Nick somehow fought the guy

547
00:29:31,085 --> 00:29:34,205
Speaker 3: and got the balaklava off or pulled the mask down,

548
00:29:35,045 --> 00:29:37,805
Speaker 3: or that he mistook the smooth surface for a bald head.

549
00:29:38,445 --> 00:29:40,845
Speaker 3: Or it could have just been something random. He blurted out.

550
00:29:41,405 --> 00:29:43,725
Speaker 3: At that point, he was dying and he could have

551
00:29:43,805 --> 00:29:47,565
Speaker 3: been confused. He was wrong about being shot. Then again,

552
00:29:47,725 --> 00:29:50,245
Speaker 3: he did know his own name. He seemed to be

553
00:29:50,365 --> 00:29:52,325
Speaker 3: trying to get a message across I just wish we

554
00:29:52,365 --> 00:29:56,605
Speaker 3: could figure out what that message is. Michelle said that

555
00:29:56,645 --> 00:29:59,765
Speaker 3: one thing that puzzles her is that Nick knew everyone

556
00:29:59,885 --> 00:30:02,365
Speaker 3: who has been named as a potential person of interest.

557
00:30:02,765 --> 00:30:06,085
Speaker 3: So if he recognized his killer, why why wouldn't he

558
00:30:06,165 --> 00:30:07,645
Speaker 3: name them when he was asked who it was?

559
00:30:08,725 --> 00:30:12,125
Speaker 7: Nick knew of them. So I really think the bald

560
00:30:12,125 --> 00:30:16,165
Speaker 7: thing has very little. It's irrelevant because I think that

561
00:30:16,245 --> 00:30:18,445
Speaker 7: in his mind he thought that they were bald.

562
00:30:18,805 --> 00:30:20,525
Speaker 2: But here's another thing that I thought.

563
00:30:20,365 --> 00:30:22,645
Speaker 7: And here's another theory of mine, because the guy, like

564
00:30:22,685 --> 00:30:25,805
Speaker 7: I said, the guy was thirty to forty five seconds later.

565
00:30:26,325 --> 00:30:29,005
Speaker 7: You know, Nick had that much time to run from him,

566
00:30:29,645 --> 00:30:31,565
Speaker 7: and we ran out of the house. So I don't

567
00:30:31,605 --> 00:30:33,565
Speaker 7: know if Nick pulled the mask off of him when

568
00:30:33,605 --> 00:30:36,325
Speaker 7: they were fighting, and it took him a few seconds

569
00:30:36,365 --> 00:30:38,325
Speaker 7: to kind of re situate, put the masks on, put

570
00:30:38,325 --> 00:30:39,325
Speaker 7: the hat on, and their run out.

571
00:30:39,845 --> 00:30:41,085
Speaker 2: That's just the theory of mine.

572
00:30:45,285 --> 00:30:47,605
Speaker 4: There didn't seem to be much other evidence.

573
00:30:48,285 --> 00:30:51,445
Speaker 3: Michelle said that some evidence had been sent for DNA

574
00:30:51,485 --> 00:30:54,405
Speaker 3: testing in South Bend, Indiana, which does have more facilities,

575
00:30:55,125 --> 00:30:57,805
Speaker 3: but she said detectives there have told her so far

576
00:30:57,885 --> 00:31:02,045
Speaker 3: they have not found any matches other than the video footage,

577
00:31:02,365 --> 00:31:05,045
Speaker 3: which is a public The best piece of evidence that

578
00:31:05,045 --> 00:31:05,405
Speaker 3: we have.

579
00:31:05,645 --> 00:31:06,285
Speaker 4: Is that photo.

580
00:31:07,085 --> 00:31:10,245
Speaker 3: I really believe someone out there knows something something that

581
00:31:10,325 --> 00:31:13,685
Speaker 3: could help lead to an arrest. One thing we've heard

582
00:31:14,365 --> 00:31:18,085
Speaker 3: is that h J's friend worked at a fertilizer plant,

583
00:31:18,245 --> 00:31:21,525
Speaker 3: and that apparently people who work at fertilizer plants do

584
00:31:21,725 --> 00:31:26,045
Speaker 3: wear outfits similar to the one on camera. I've also

585
00:31:26,125 --> 00:31:28,445
Speaker 3: heard it could be someone who works in farming or.

586
00:31:28,445 --> 00:31:31,085
Speaker 4: Works with seeds. In this community, there is a.

587
00:31:31,005 --> 00:31:33,125
Speaker 3: Lot of farming, so I know that we have to

588
00:31:33,165 --> 00:31:35,765
Speaker 3: cast a wide net, but we have to start with

589
00:31:35,805 --> 00:31:38,685
Speaker 3: the crime scene. In what we know, someone out there

590
00:31:38,765 --> 00:31:42,445
Speaker 3: might recognize some detail, maybe the writing on the jacket

591
00:31:42,525 --> 00:31:44,645
Speaker 3: or the type of coat, which to me looks a

592
00:31:44,685 --> 00:31:48,165
Speaker 3: little like a rain slicker. The tiniest detail could crack

593
00:31:48,205 --> 00:31:51,605
Speaker 3: this case, and Nick and his family and his children

594
00:31:51,925 --> 00:31:55,765
Speaker 3: deserve that. We'll post that image on our instagram at

595
00:31:55,805 --> 00:31:59,725
Speaker 3: helen gonpot. Crime Stoppers has announced a reward of twenty

596
00:31:59,845 --> 00:32:02,765
Speaker 3: five hundred dollars. You can be totally anonymous with them.

597
00:32:03,165 --> 00:32:05,165
Speaker 3: If the tip leads to the solving of the case

598
00:32:05,285 --> 00:32:09,045
Speaker 3: or an arrest, you're eligible to collect that money. You

599
00:32:09,085 --> 00:32:12,485
Speaker 3: can also contact crime Stoppers at five four eight two

600
00:32:12,565 --> 00:32:15,645
Speaker 3: eight eight stop, or you can call the Star County

601
00:32:15,645 --> 00:32:18,845
Speaker 3: Sheriff's Office at five seven four, seven, seven two three

602
00:32:18,925 --> 00:32:23,125
Speaker 3: seven seven to one. I'm Katherine Townsend. This is Helen

603
00:32:23,165 --> 00:32:26,845
Speaker 3: Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line is a production

604
00:32:26,885 --> 00:32:29,765
Speaker 3: of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and

605
00:32:29,845 --> 00:32:33,285
Speaker 3: narrated by me Katherine Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts.

606
00:32:33,605 --> 00:32:36,925
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Amy Tubbs for her research assistance. Noah

607
00:32:37,005 --> 00:32:39,925
Speaker 3: camer mixed and scored this episode. Our theme song is

608
00:32:39,965 --> 00:32:43,965
Speaker 3: by Ben Salek, Executive producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr,

609
00:32:44,045 --> 00:32:44,445
Speaker 3: and L. C.

610
00:32:44,605 --> 00:32:45,005
Speaker 4: Crowley.

611
00:32:45,605 --> 00:32:48,245
Speaker 3: Listen to Helen Gone ad free by subscribing to the

612
00:32:48,285 --> 00:32:51,365
Speaker 3: iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts.

613
00:32:51,645 --> 00:32:53,125
Speaker 4: If you are interested in seeing.

614
00:32:52,885 --> 00:32:55,325
Speaker 3: Documents and materials from the case, you can follow the

615
00:32:55,365 --> 00:32:58,965
Speaker 3: show on Instagram at Helen Gonpott. If you have a

616
00:32:59,005 --> 00:33:01,045
Speaker 3: case you'd like me and my team to look into,

617
00:33:01,165 --> 00:33:02,885
Speaker 3: you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone

618
00:33:02,965 --> 00:33:06,485
Speaker 3: Murder Line at six seven eight seven four four six

619
00:33:06,565 --> 00:33:09,885
Speaker 3: one four five that six seven eight seven four four

620
00:33:10,205 --> 00:33:11,365
Speaker 3: six one four five.

621
00:33:17,645 --> 00:33:18,565
Speaker 4: School of Humans