WEBVTT - Ep. 105: Chairman Rob Bishop 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:09.799 This is the me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:15.360 severely bug bitten, in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:28.440 can't predict anything, all right, I'm gonna go so far 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:30.880 as to say we've got a very special guest in 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:36.520 that he's arguably the most influential voice on public lands, 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:42.559 wildlife management, and natural resources management in the country. I'm 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:47.600 talking about US Congressman Rob Bishop from Utah, who chairs 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:52.160 the House Natural Resources Committee. Now, I usually go way 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.360 out of my way to not burden listeners with my 0:00:55.480 --> 0:01:00.560 political views outside of those areas where politics sort of 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:04.120 intersect with the concerns of hunters and anglers and wildlife. 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.160 Meaning I'm not going to go expound on my views 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:11.200 around capital punishment or legalized weed. But I have no 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:14.760 hesitation about giving my political input when it comes to 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:20.120 things like public lands, conservation funding, and attacks on science 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:24.360 based wildlife management. Over the life of the Mediator podcast, 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:28.720 I've definitely stacked the deck in my own favor, so 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:32.560 to speak, by giving voice to a load of guests 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:36.240 who share my basic stance on these issues in that 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:40.360 I support our federally managed public lands, I support robust 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:44.080 protections for game and fish, habitat and wilderness, and I 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.240 support state management of wildlife that allows for a sustainable 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:52.600 harvest of resources. And we've definitely taken some heat for that, 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:56.400 perhaps rightfully so by listeners who feel that I haven't 0:01:56.440 --> 0:02:01.320 been entirely fair to other viewpoints. Well, we are taking 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:04.800 steps to fix that right now by sitting down for 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:09.840 a conversation the Chairman Bishop. We have differing views on 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:12.560 a lot of the issues that will be discussing today, 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:15.679 but I'm excited to hear from him, and I'm thankful 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:17.919 that he's willing to take the time to sit down 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.880 and talk through a handful of issues that we all 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:25.120 feel are very important for us and more importantly, for 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.639 future generations of Americans. One of the things I want 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:31.800 to start out with is to discuss the Land and 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:36.320 Water Conservation fund um and before doing that, I'd like 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:40.359 to open up to Chairman Bishop two, can you really 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.000 quickly lay out sort of the scope of the Natural 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:48.160 Resources Committee and what your primary goals are within the committee. Well, 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:51.920 one of the things that surprised me because when I 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:55.000 first got to Congress, I was concerned about public lands. 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.560 Utah is a public land state, but the scope of 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:01.639 what my committee does is so much broader than that. 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:05.800 It sometimes is almost it's daunting of what kinds of 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:10.840 things I cover with. So anything that deals with public lands, parks, forest, 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:13.480 all of those are in the scope of my committee. 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:17.600 Anything that deals with energy development that is on public lands, 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:21.959 or anything that's energy development offshore is all under my jurisdiction. 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:26.880 Anything that deals with water development or water water maintenance, 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:29.960 not just in the West, but actually anything that will 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:33.160 be done by b O R actually becomes under my jurisdiction. 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:37.840 I have control of all the territories, which means, uh, 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:39.920 you know, you know, all of a sudden, for someone 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:43.240 from northern Utah, Puerto Rico became extremely important to me. 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:47.240 So I get Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands and Guam 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.800 and Marianna's and American Samoa. Those are now part of 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.360 my portfolio, which I'm grateful, especially in the winter because 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:56.640 I think that's when I should be visiting those places 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.320 or on the others. And and anything native of American 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.520 that's in that's in our portfolio. So it's a wide area. 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:08.480 Anything that deals with fishing anywhere, commercial or recreational, it's 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.040 my portfolio. So how long have you served in the 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:15.600 House of Representatives far too long. Uh, this is my 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:19.640 eighth term, right, yeah, so it will be sixteen years 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.320 next January. And in doing that, how long did you 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.520 serve before you became involved in the Natural Resources Committee? 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:28.279 And how long how do you get to where you 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:31.560 achieve chairmanship of the committee on the House in Congress, 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:34.919 because it actually goes back earlier than that. I I 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:37.680 served here in Utah and the state legislature, and I 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:39.800 was there for sixteen years. Also, you came out of 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.080 education originally, right. I've always been a teacher, history teacher, 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:45.880 and in in Utah it's, uh, it's like forty five 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:48.040 calendar day, so it's a part time legislature. So I 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:49.760 was teaching all the way. I was going through that, 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.120 and as a teacher, I was not necessarily as involved 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:54.760 in that. But at the end, especially when I was 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:56.880 Speaker of the House here, I had a couple of 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:58.760 members who came up to me that that got me 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:02.000 involved in land issues where I thought, yeah, I mean, 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:03.920 some of these people are being screwed over and it's 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:07.160 not right. All of a sudden became deeply involved. So 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:11.440 the my speakership, we established the Western States Coalition to 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:13.880 Treme bring other Western states in to try and get 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.640 part of the discussion on how the federal government deals 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:20.640 with land issues um and that spurred my involvement in it. 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:22.880 So when I went to Congress, I wanted to be 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.920 on resources from the very get go. Because the Utah 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.880 se Utah's controlled by the federal government. You gotta be 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:33.360 on the public lands on the Resource Committee. That becomes essential. 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:37.320 And except for the one term I was on the 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:39.880 Rules Committee and they did not let me do both, 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:43.120 I was I've always been on the Resource Committee. Now, 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:48.560 unlike the Senate, where chairmanships come up totally by seniority, 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:51.800 they have limits on the Republicans in the Senate limit 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:54.839 their chairman's of six years, but it's the next senior member. 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.320 The seniority plays a role, but it's not the only 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:00.920 role that's been played in it. So when I went 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:04.200 back into the Resources Committee to get a sub committee chairmanship, 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:06.680 they jumped me over a couple of people, and I 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:08.960 also jumped over a couple of people to become chairman 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:12.360 of the committee. Is that because of having an expertise 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:14.560 or just because having a vested interest based on where 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:17.320 you're coming from. I thought because I was so lovable. 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:22.839 I think it was. It was the expertise. I had 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.040 almost been like groomed by the chairman before me. I 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:28.560 did a lot of things in his in his place. 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:33.040 So I had served for what was it like six 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:37.160 terms on the committee before I became chairman. Um. I'd 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:40.200 served in a lot of different subcommittees. I knew the issues, 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:44.039 probably as well as anyone who was on there, and 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.280 and I had what leadership at the time thought was 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:51.000 the temperament to be the chairman of that committee. If 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.840 you're good with that, are you ready to dive into 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:58.400 land and water Conservation fund? I'd love to, OK, So 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:00.240 what I want to do I want to have I 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:02.960 want to give people a background on what it is, 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:05.719 and then you get but then you get to you 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:08.400 get to add color to that. If you feel like 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.000 I'm missing something important here, no, I'm glad you're doing that, 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:13.560 because most people have no clue of what land even 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:15.520 those that are involved in it don't know what landing 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.640 Water Conservation Fund actually is. Yeah. So the Landing cut 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:23.720 Water Conservation Fund is a fund that draws its revenues 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:28.440 from offshore oil and gas leases. Off Shore is defined 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:31.720 like it's like a very specific mileage from shores, right 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:36.000 mm hm fifty or two nine miles nine Okay, I'm sorry. 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:38.880 States get to control nine miles out. Everything else is federal. 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.400 It's in majistic so like the Gulf of Mexico has 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.720 a lot of offshore a lot of offshore land. So 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:49.080 this fund provides matching grants to state and tribal governments 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:53.320 for the acquisition and development of public parks and other 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:57.960 outdoor recreation sites. Um I was surprised to hear when 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:00.960 I first started looking into this that every county in 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:06.040 the country has had a project funded under the Land 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:10.840 of Water Conservation Fund, things like boat launches, public access sites, 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:19.400 and access for anglers and river users, and also oftentimes 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:23.280 purchasing easements to give public access to what would otherwise 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:27.760 be landlocked public lands. Now the thing used to be 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:29.360 funded for a long time, like I used to have 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.120 like it had like a ten year twenty year funding cycles, 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:35.640 but recent it's fallen into kind of stop gap measures 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.400 and it is now set to the programs now set 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:43.160 to expire at the end of September two thousand eighteen. 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:45.680 And I know that like if you if you follow 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:48.600 sort of the politics of hunting and fishing. You hear 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:50.080 a lot of noise about how we need to get 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:53.880 in there and renew the renew the fund, but there's 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.640 snags in the in the process, and it's not done 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.560 to everyone's satisfaction. Can you kind of explain a little 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:03.800 bit about out what sort of shortfalls you recognize in 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.080 the Land of Water Conservation Fund. That might kind of 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:09.920 explain how something that seems so straightforward and just great 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.920 for everyone, how something like that does become problematic or 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:19.280 controversial or have limited support. Yeah. Um, And it goes 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:21.760 back to when this was originally developed, so that the 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:25.480 plan came back in in the mid sixties. The idea 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:28.840 was as you said, to allow well, actually it was 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.360 Land of Water Conservation Fund was divided into two sections, 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:37.280 so in that time was supposed to go to local projects, 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.959 which is what you just said. So recreation areas, parks, 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:44.000 access and easements. We're all supposed to be funded by 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:48.080 the six of the money that was appropriated, and that 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:51.160 would be determined by local interests. So people at the 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:53.640 local level would decide what kind of recreation they want. 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:55.640 They would go after grants, and it could even be 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:59.360 used for like community swimming pools. Right, Yeah, whatever the 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:03.079 locals wanted was supposed to go to the state of 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:06.240 the federal government to buy in holdings in parks and 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:10.079 other areas, so things that were totally surrounded, there's they 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.040 could do that. It has morphed as that time went on, 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:17.920 so that instead of going to these funding programs that 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:19.920 most of the people who talked to me love and 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:23.079 like and support, that was down to as little as 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:26.240 twelve and ten percent. The rest of it went to 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:31.040 the federal government for buying in holdings, which I'm sorry, 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:33.240 over the years, the amount of money the federal government 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.120 has had, they could have bought every in holding like 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:37.959 four or five times if they really wanted to. So 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:41.400 instead that money that went to the federal side, that 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.960 has gone to basically buying up more land, and unfortunately 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:48.320 in not a nice way. So instead of the Department 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.200 of Interior or the Fourth Service sitting down and saying, okay, 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:54.880 what kinds of areas would be beneficial to us. In 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:59.440 the testimony our committee came came had we had former 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:01.920 employee is the Department of Material who came and simply 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:04.320 said what they do is sit around and say what 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:06.960 land is owned by a special interest group that we 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:11.040 want to reward by buying their stuff. So what has 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.640 happened on the federal side, not the state side, but 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.800 the federal side, is that groups will go out there 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:20.000 and they'll buy property from private owner, they'll sit on 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.400 it for a short period of time, and then sell 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:25.040 it a nice profits of the federal government using land 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:28.480 and water conservation funds and it has become a funding 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.920 mechanism for special interest groups to keep up their lobbying 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:35.680 and their litigation efforts. So to me, the Land and 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:39.040 Water Conservation Fund has has morphed into something it was 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:41.920 never supposed to be and never intended. And that's why 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:45.720 I was literally surprised at the feedback that came when 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:48.080 I said, maybe we should take that money and do 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.520 something useful with it actually helps people out. There are 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:53.400 a lot of groups that just came and glued and 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:57.400 started spreading out what I think is misinformation because I 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:00.400 was attacking their funding source and I don't think federal 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:04.040 government should be a revenue source for special interest groups. 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.600 And that's exactly what has become. So what what we 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:10.920 were trying to do, and normally programs are authorized for 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:14.360 seven years that's what I'm supposed to do with seven years. 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:18.920 The last reauthorization was done for three years, primarily so 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:21.400 I could be around when it's going to be reauthorized again. 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:24.080 But what we try to do is say, okay, let's 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:27.400 put some parameters in here. Let's divide the money back 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:32.239 up again fifty fifty, so still goes for the funding projects, 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:35.240 not the twelve eight percent last couple of years, and 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.320 go to the federal governments for getting in holdings, but 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.160 some parameters on what those in holdings have to be, 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:47.319 like actually in holdings or an area that butts uh 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:52.080 federal land. Like I have a personal experience with this 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:56.200 with with some relatives I knew about a piece of property. 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.800 Please i'd I'd love to hear it. Yeah, who will 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:01.559 be nameless because you know, I want to go to 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.320 family re unions again. They had a piece of property 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:09.560 which was not terribly productive, very steep. They sold it 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:12.680 to one of the special interest groups will be nameless 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:15.080 for but can you give me a sense of like 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.960 what sort of special interest group? Well, like, like what 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:24.000 what an environmental group that that that practices conservation and protection. 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:27.000 They sat on it for a few months and and 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:30.280 like they sold it for six figures. It's a relative 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:33.760 and the first figure was not a one. They they 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:35.600 sold it and then they sat on it and then 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.240 gave it back to the UH. This was to forest 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:42.040 for service land for service to use London Water Conservation 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:44.679 Fund and made a nice, healthy profit for themselves by 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:49.480 doing it supposedly as mule deer habitat. The problem is 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.880 um there's no vegetation on the thing, and it was 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:58.360 surrounded on three sides by homes, so you know, the 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:00.720 community up there would have a fact. They did, like 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:02.240 they came to me and say, can we get this 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.240 piece of property for for a city cemetery so we 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:08.840 can finally use and make it useful. As it was 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:12.240 sold as mule deer habitat, it was totally useless. There 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.280 was no vegetation. Mule deer didn't go there. It was 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:19.240 just land that was controlled by the Fourth Service. Ultimately, 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:22.640 we finally did legislation, although it took how a long time, 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.160 like six years to finally get it through, just to 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.840 transfer this acreage back to the city so it could 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.840 be put into useful production. Now, that's that's the kind 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:34.680 of that's the invitation I had to finding out about 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:38.200 how Land and Water Conservation Fund works on the federal side, 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.760 but please realize on the state side, I'm off four it. 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:45.520 I think it's a great idea. It was originally authorized 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:49.080 to be up to nine hundred million dollars can be 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:52.920 spent on that. It has never been funded more than 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:56.920 four fifty million dollars. Usually it's around three hundred million dollars. 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.400 And put that in some kind of perspective, Um, like 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:04.400 the Robertson Pittman Fund Pittman Robertson Fund that generates a 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:08.720 billion dollars a year from Sportsman's Land and Water Conservation 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:13.560 Fund is three million, and if we are justifiably as 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.360 it was originally intended to be, half of that would 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:21.680 go to to recreation opportunities that were that were desired 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.600 by local people. So what I simply said, Okay, let's 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:29.160 keep the half. Um people can't use imminent domain on 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:32.480 these on these properties, which I think is fair. Keep 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:34.760 the half for them, and that includes the easements that 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.080 you talked about. Is probably the most popular element of 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.600 that I can imagine, because I mean, like yeah, I 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:42.920 mean I think the Eastman's are hugely important to people 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.800 who are coming from the perspective that I hear from 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:47.520 the most of people who are trying to who have 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:53.680 a goal to increase access opportunities on public lands. They're 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:56.320 extremely important for those who do want access. They're also 0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:00.200 extremely important opportunities for especially those in rural rural areas. 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:04.000 They want to maintain agriculture while they're around, so they 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:06.960 grant the easements, they can maintain their property, but it's 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:10.600 still will be there for agricultural purposes, and they have, 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:13.760 but it's it's also some of those easement takes place 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:19.560 in urban areas to like on the Baltimore the highway 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.080 between Baltimore and Washington is actually owned by the Park 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.720 Service and they have easements on it, and they're part 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:30.200 of this LWCF funding for those easements. So with that 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:33.720 no domain. But then take the other half that goes 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.280 to federal government and say, let's make sure that we 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.040 can do something useful with that money. The federal side 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:41.600 of the money. The federal half, for example, we have 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:46.000 a seventeen billion dollar backlog in the Park Service. Let's 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.440 put some of that money into actually solving our our 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.760 park service. Fish and Wildlife and BLM also have double 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.440 digits in the millions of dollars in back billions dollars 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.280 I'm sorry, in backlog in their areas. Put them money 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:00.080 in there. We do payment in lieu of tax is 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:04.199 to states so that they can actually provide services on 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:06.639 the county level where there is massive amount of federal 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:11.000 land that has always been We're doing better than when 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.160 I first came here, but that's around four million years. 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.480 Put some to boost up that. At the same time, 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:18.760 Let's take the federal side of the money and not 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:22.360 just spend it to reward special interest groups, but put 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.280 it on programs that actually help people. That's what I'm 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.960 trying to do. But but it would steer money away 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:34.080 from acquisition. Uh yeah, but I'm telling you that acquisition 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:37.160 I think has pretty well been steered away already. So 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:39.560 but I want to move on to other stuff. I 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:40.960 just want to make sure I understand something. When it 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.480 originally came out, was it not where the percentage is 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:46.760 not codified by law. It was just sort of loose understanding. 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.080 Originally it was sixty and then they how did it drift? 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:54.879 They removed its Congress later on about eight nine years 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:58.240 after that, simply removed it so that the understanding was 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:00.680 they would continue on with that six S forty split, 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.199 but they wanted to give some flexibility to both sides. 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:08.040 The flexibility was basically the stuff that actually gives and 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:10.919 I'm sorry the flexibility was actually moved over to the 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.920 federal side from the local. But also when you say 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:16.960 the local access, especially to some of your listeners, that 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:20.560 comes through the state side, the local funding, not through 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:24.040 the federal acquisition of the land, does not mean there's 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:26.560 I'm going to be access for any kind of recreation 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:31.280 that takes place. It's simply acquisition acquisition of land. Um. 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.360 But if you really want to have have any process 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:38.800 that actually helps with the access for sportsman's that usually 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:42.040 comes to the state side funding of that program, which 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:44.080 I want to maintain. Actually, I want to maintain the 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:47.400 entire program if you could, if you could actually put 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.000 the boundaries that I want so that I know the 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:53.560 money is going to solve problem problem problems, I would 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:55.399 really like to go on lobby to make sure that 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.560 we could spend all nine million of it. In fact, 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:00.439 some of the things we said is the money, as 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:04.720 you said, comes from offshore energy development. That's the money 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:08.360 that keeps going in there. We have an aging workforce. 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:11.720 I mean, the workforce that works on offshore is really 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:16.840 becoming uh, they're all reaching retirement age. We don't do 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.640 anything to try and train people to go into those good, 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:23.199 high paying jobs. Most as as Americans are retiring on 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:25.639 those off shore projects, most of them are being replaced 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.080 by people from South American, a lot of Brazilians that 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.400 are coming up for them. So I said, why don't 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:32.960 you take some of that money and put it into 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:38.680 into colleges, get programs to try and train environmental and 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:45.920 um and uh petroleum not petroleum engineers. There's there's a name, 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:48.440 there's a word. Don't ever become my age. I'm sorry. 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:50.639 Names and nouns go first. And this is this is 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:53.080 the time it happened. Do some of that get make 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:56.919 the money useful. But you mean, so by that, are 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:02.399 you suggesting that by training oil profess artionals and engineers, geologists, whatever, 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:07.280 that you would be facilitating more extraction, which would be 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:10.760 allowing more money to feed in or just like just 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.000 kind of like finding a whole new purpose for the funds. No, 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.840 I mean no, the fund could actually if you're trying 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:21.359 to solve problems on the federal side, you could solve 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:23.720 more of those problems. But the idea is this is 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:25.560 kind of like the ghost is laying the golden egg, 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.520 So feed it, make sure it says vibrant so it 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:30.840 can actually put money into that. That's one of the 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:33.440 things that think he has emphasized as he's been Secretary 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:35.920 of Interior that there used to be a whole lot 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:39.840 of revenue that was coming in from from extraction industries 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:44.919 that funded programs within the Interior Department that over the 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:48.639 last ten years has dissipated to almost almost virtually nothing. 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:50.840 Put it back in there. Make sure that you can 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:52.560 do a whole lot of money with the royalties that 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:56.840 are coming off those programs. So it's it's the extraction 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:59.760 industry is going to exist regardless, it's just will Americans 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:01.440 be part of it. Will they actually have good paying 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:03.480 jobs out of it, or will they all go to 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:07.240 foreign workers coming in there? And can we actually boost 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:10.160 the long long activity so we can get more money 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:13.320 to actually do better things for people. It is a 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:15.160 funny thing that that I find, like when you when 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:20.399 you sort of sniff out your internal like self hypocrisies, 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:24.960 uh personally would be like if you do if you 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:27.800 look at you want to vibrant, well funded land and 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:30.760 water conservation fund because you like the things that it 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:34.480 delivers to and in my case, like the deliverers of 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:36.879 people that I think of as being like me, hunters 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:39.479 and anglers who use boat launches and exers. Sites like 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.200 that I want, right, But then I look and I'll 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:44.320 oftentimes have a little bit of a suspicion or a 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:49.199 leeriness about offshore oil operations, and you do find in 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:52.280 there there's there's a tension between those two ideas because 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:55.159 that's where that money comes from. Yeah, they've funded your 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:58.280 boat ramp, so why Yeah, you know, I recognize that 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:00.160 it wants up being a company, It wants up being 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:04.760 a world that's like a bit more complicated than you'd 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:07.560 like it to be, and and some of the things. 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:10.920 You know, it depends on where your listeners are living. 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:15.400 Especially out here in the West, there is so much land, 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:18.560 there's so much space that their idea that there has 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:24.000 to be a competition between preservation, access and development, preservation, 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:28.800 recreation and development. That's a phony concept. There is plenty 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:31.240 of area to do all three of those. There can 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:33.119 be development, there also can be a whole lot of 0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:36.280 recreation and there can be conservation at the same time. 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:38.680 What what I would rather like to do is make 0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:40.880 sure that we have a wiser way of how we're 0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:44.080 defining where those lands are, so that people know where 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:46.800 they can so businesses know where they can actually develop, 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:49.920 and people know where they can recreate and what will 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:54.639 be set aside strictly for conservation and protection UM, which 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:58.320