Speaker 1: So what are you talking about today? We are talking
Speaker 1: about sex in the city. Mom. Wait a minute, I'm
Speaker 1: doing cosmos. I'm ordering Chinese food. Yea for and just
Speaker 1: like that and for just like that. Wait, Mom, who
Speaker 1: do you think I am? Yeah, you could be a Carrie,
Speaker 1: but you might have a little Samantha in there. That's right,
Speaker 1: that's the corect answer. That's right. Okay, well, definitely not Charlotte. Okay,
Speaker 1: love you bye, love you by John Donna. John, Dump dump,
Speaker 1: don don't dump, don't I'm a finished Rose. You're putting
Speaker 1: this in serious legal tuba dum dude, du dude, dude. Well,
Speaker 1: it sounds like we have our new theme music that
Speaker 1: you're looking for. Honestly, I feel like I'm giving day
Speaker 1: Kim control. We are invoking your name today. You are
Speaker 1: with us in spirit now that you have passed on
Speaker 1: to the other world. No, I'm just saying like, I
Speaker 1: want her energy around me. Dumb bitch as unite, right,
Speaker 1: But social culturally, a lot of people are treating her
Speaker 1: like she's dead, which I'm sure she would appreciate because not.
Speaker 1: Samantha is the one that figured it out, both in
Speaker 1: the show and in real life. She was like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's actually huge toxicity and dysfunctionality to this friend group,
Speaker 1: and I'm out, Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Speaker 1: Let's take a little trip to New York City, a
Speaker 1: New York city that like definitely isn't the real New
Speaker 1: York snow but not based in any sort of reality. Um,
Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about Carrie, Miranda, Charlotte and Samantha.
Speaker 1: We're not talking about Charlotte. We will have anything to say.
Speaker 1: I will talk about Charlotte and her shiny shiny hair
Speaker 1: of course. Um, this is like a Virgin the show
Speaker 1: where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm Rose
Speaker 1: Damo and I'm fran Toronto. Unlike Carrie, who only was
Speaker 1: ever thinking about what was going on in her life,
Speaker 1: let's think about what's going on in the world right now.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's good look at what's going on
Speaker 1: in pop culture. The biggest thing I think this week
Speaker 1: was Spotify wrapped hit Yes, the breaking news of Spotify wrapped,
Speaker 1: and watching so many of my ex funk buddies post
Speaker 1: about the fact that they again, for the third year
Speaker 1: in a row, we're in the top point five percentile
Speaker 1: of Ariana Grande listeners. Very so grateful to know that
Speaker 1: my top five artists this year were no surprised to me.
Speaker 1: Number one Taylor Swift, obviously Taylor Allison Swift. Say her name,
Speaker 1: I keep forgetting Her middle name is Alison. That's so jarring.
Speaker 1: Number two was Lord, No surprise there. I love Lord.
Speaker 1: She had a new album come out this year, and
Speaker 1: you and I had the same number one and number
Speaker 1: two arts. I listened to her a lot that that tracks.
Speaker 1: Number three Kate Bush, Yes, God, I listened. I mean
Speaker 1: Kate Bush is one of my favorites of all time,
Speaker 1: and I do listen to her all the time. Number
Speaker 1: four Livia Rodrigo Sour was big this year for me.
Speaker 1: Number five Phoebe Bridgers. This was the year that I
Speaker 1: became a Phoebe Bridgers stand What what are Bridgers stands called?
Speaker 1: I don't know, little little skeletons, corpses. Yeah, well I'm
Speaker 1: sure there's a stand name. Have you seen Have you
Speaker 1: heard that TikTok sound where it's like someone who anytime
Speaker 1: they see someone as a skeleton, they're like, Phoebe, you
Speaker 1: are sick and you are married. So top artists obviously
Speaker 1: are all thematically linked and that they're all women. They
Speaker 1: all make like a very kind of, you know, personal
Speaker 1: kind of music. I also subscribed to the exact same
Speaker 1: genre of music, which is soft spoken like alt girls
Speaker 1: who love writing songs about personal growth, girls that love therapy,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So who are your Who
Speaker 1: are your artists? So my top artists were Taylor Swift
Speaker 1: in Lord's Same as You, then Phoebe as a as
Speaker 1: a number three coming in Hot, and then I did
Speaker 1: listen to Kasey mus Graves quite a lot this year,
Speaker 1: but I will say that it was more of continual
Speaker 1: re listening of Golden Hour and maybe not as much
Speaker 1: of the new album, which I still loved, but you know,
Speaker 1: it had its hits and its misses. It was it
Speaker 1: was mostly okay. I don't know this for a fact,
Speaker 1: but I would also wager that m part of the
Speaker 1: reason She's in my top five is because I really
Speaker 1: love the song from her Christmas special gliter E, which
Speaker 1: she does with choice of and I'm not even a
Speaker 1: choice of on stand but the song is a really
Speaker 1: good well you are sick in the head, I'm sick
Speaker 1: in the head. So wait. So in my fifth was
Speaker 1: Billie Eilish. Interesting, Well we can talk about it. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about it. Well, I'm curious to know I'm not
Speaker 1: a little eyelash. I you know, I have grown. I
Speaker 1: like her, but I just don't like her that much.
Speaker 1: So Taylor was your top artist, Taylor was my top artist.
Speaker 1: What was your most listen to Taylor song? It was
Speaker 1: Ivy at the number two underneath Moon Song. My top
Speaker 1: song of the year was Kyoto by Phoebe Bridgers, which
Speaker 1: I love because Boebe sings with kind of like a
Speaker 1: lockjaw and so it's like a do youen Kyoto before seven?
Speaker 1: Like she has her jaw wire chut but is singing
Speaker 1: through it. And I, you know, as much as I
Speaker 1: loved Solar Power, Soila solo Pala really brought me back
Speaker 1: to melodrama, which all leudes back to melo drama. I
Speaker 1: all wrote. I'm ashamed to say when it first came out,
Speaker 1: I didn't love it, and so I never really gave
Speaker 1: a trail. Okay, I'm thinking of The Love Club the
Speaker 1: Love Club EP. When that came out, I just had
Speaker 1: an idea of what I wanted Lord to be, and
Speaker 1: so when it went into Jack Antonovs territory. I felt
Speaker 1: like it wasn't my music anymore, and in hindsight, like
Speaker 1: I don't think that I was thinking about it in
Speaker 1: a very well rounded way and also didn't really know
Speaker 1: who Jack Antonoff was. But I basic all I'm trying
Speaker 1: to say, if we need to give him a break,
Speaker 1: the girls need to like take his cock cage off
Speaker 1: and give him like a year or two to to
Speaker 1: get the creative juices like refilled one, especially since I
Speaker 1: don't really feel like his imprint was really on Solar
Speaker 1: Power at all. Like I feel like Lord really drove
Speaker 1: all of the album and pushed him. I I hear
Speaker 1: it a lot on songs like um Fallen Fruit was
Speaker 1: is maybe my favorite song on the album, and I
Speaker 1: think like that the instrumentals and the harmonies on that,
Speaker 1: to me, you sound like very Jock anton Off. Anyways,
Speaker 1: Basically I discovered melodrama and Solar Power this year, which
Speaker 1: is why Lord is a great second. You know who
Speaker 1: else I think needs a little break culturally is lin
Speaker 1: Manuel Miranda, who um you know, love love him, has
Speaker 1: made a cool body of work. He's like very polarizing
Speaker 1: to some people, I think to the gay Yeah, but
Speaker 1: we saw Encanto on a Friday, which I loved. I
Speaker 1: thought it was a great movie. Did not love the music.
Speaker 1: UM did not also love, hate to say it, the
Speaker 1: vocal ability in the movie. I felt like the voicing
Speaker 1: was perfect, characterization perfect, the vocal ability not. Therefore, what
Speaker 1: were media song? Well, you know, these aren't the days
Speaker 1: where you, you know, hire celebrity to voice a Disney
Speaker 1: character and then I have someone else sing the song.
Speaker 1: You know, you have someone do it all right, and
Speaker 1: not everyone can hit the notes find the note. I also,
Speaker 1: I mean, I appreciated what felt like maybe an intentionality
Speaker 1: to give slightly raw vocals, like there was pretty much
Speaker 1: nor raw. There was like nor the raw jar, there
Speaker 1: was no there was no auto tune. I don't think
Speaker 1: or what I detected, I didn't hear auto. That was
Speaker 1: not one of the magical powers they had. For those
Speaker 1: of you that haven't seen, we're not going to spoil
Speaker 1: anything but the premises. It's like a family in Colombia that,
Speaker 1: um all, every member of the family kind of possesses
Speaker 1: these kind of little mystical powers. Um that all come
Speaker 1: down to like this magical candle that they have that
Speaker 1: keeps this like living breathing house. It's it's a magical
Speaker 1: dipteak candle. It's a magical dipta. It's a birato candle,
Speaker 1: and it burns forever, it burns forever. Um, and this
Speaker 1: it was other outside of so we lead with the
Speaker 1: negative critique, but overall you and I loved the movie.
Speaker 1: We've sobbed. So I will say it. The film had
Speaker 1: kind of an abrupt ending and I did leave the
Speaker 1: theater with my face still went from my tear phenomen
Speaker 1: I have to say excited for Incanto two. I don't
Speaker 1: want to spoil the movie, but I will say also
Speaker 1: a beautiful meditation on what it means to you know,
Speaker 1: upgrade your home, to stop buying Ikea furniture and to
Speaker 1: start investing in the Urban outfitters catalog, perhaps the Junglow
Speaker 1: line at Target. Um, it's about what it means to
Speaker 1: one up your interior design. I think that was I
Speaker 1: love that for you as someone who doesn't own any
Speaker 1: furniture from outfitters, as someone who doesn't own any furniture period.
Speaker 1: That is true. Um. But I am, you know right
Speaker 1: now consuming a lot of Christmas things like I'm trying
Speaker 1: to get you to watch twelve Dates of Christmas? Would
Speaker 1: you like, are kind of refusing to watch? I'm not refusing,
Speaker 1: I'm just I have it's what. It's a watch season
Speaker 1: right now. Maybe a lot of things on my play,
Speaker 1: But baby girl, we the way we loved fun Boy Island,
Speaker 1: and this is twelve Days of Christmas is funck Boy
Speaker 1: Island mixed with the bisexual season of Are You the
Speaker 1: one mixed with Love? Actually a little more pan sexual.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I understood what you were saying. All I've
Speaker 1: been able to think about while I'm looking at you
Speaker 1: is how cozy your skims already looks. I do not
Speaker 1: want you have to get over this because you keep
Speaker 1: like talking about skims. It's as if it's like this
Speaker 1: dirty secret you have but you every time you buy
Speaker 1: a new item, you tweet about it and they're like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, l O L no, I but another skim.
Speaker 1: It's like, girl, just accept it. You love kim crash
Speaker 1: your skim an you're a skimmy stuff. I do you
Speaker 1: not a skimfluencer because they haven't sent you anything for free? Well,
Speaker 1: they famously do, not Like there are no skim slundcers.
Speaker 1: There's no, but they're there, but they're like actual, like
Speaker 1: famous people. But I do think I might need to
Speaker 1: get that sweatshirt. It looks stream right. You should, you
Speaker 1: should get it. Get it. Um speaking of Cozy, I've
Speaker 1: been listening to a lot of Christmas music lately and
Speaker 1: I feel like, um, you have really told, like been
Speaker 1: sending me everything. Kelly Clarkson this sea there is there
Speaker 1: is a new Queen of Christmas. I'm not saying like
Speaker 1: she's coming from Mariah No, no, no no, I'm not saying
Speaker 1: that right, it's the undisputed Queen of Christmas. But I
Speaker 1: have known for years that Kelly Clarkson was a voice
Speaker 1: in this space quite literally. Um. I love Wrapped in
Speaker 1: Red and Underneath the Tree I think is one of
Speaker 1: the best contemporary Christmas pop songs. But Kelly Clarkson is
Speaker 1: coming really hard for the Christmas season this year, you know,
Speaker 1: because she has a new Christmas album out. She did
Speaker 1: a song with Ari question Mark. Yeah, there's a there's
Speaker 1: a song on her album which is called Um Santanta,
Speaker 1: Can't you hear Me? Santa? Can't you hear Me? It
Speaker 1: is a bob oh. And also she just covered seven
Speaker 1: Rings on her talk show What Yes Wait it's so
Speaker 1: she ate, she ate. But the thing is she does that.
Speaker 1: She can do that till literally any song she does.
Speaker 1: That's what she does every day on her show. She
Speaker 1: would do that. She covers a song on her show
Speaker 1: every day. I've never watched her show, but like the
Speaker 1: most annoying, Like what's like the most annoying song, like
Speaker 1: Felice Navidad? Like that song sucks. And I say that
Speaker 1: as as a lad person, I think it's fun. Felice Navidad.
Speaker 1: That is the most annoying Christmas song, point blank period. Anyways,
Speaker 1: I love this for Kelly. I feel like, um, the
Speaker 1: thing that makes seven rings is the fact that Ariana
Speaker 1: Grande does not enunciate a single word. And Kelly Clarkson
Speaker 1: is a theater girl, and so she will give you
Speaker 1: you know what to do to die today? And lyrics
Speaker 1: are important, as I was reminded this week when I,
Speaker 1: out of curiosity, listened to Joshua Bassett's new song do
Speaker 1: you know who Joshua Bassett is? I remember him as
Speaker 1: the full subject matter of Hour You're right he is
Speaker 1: the subject. He is the uh co star of Olivia's
Speaker 1: from High School Musical, The musical, the series um who
Speaker 1: she dated, and it is widely known is the breakup
Speaker 1: that inspired sour and like most famously Driver's License and
Speaker 1: trader Um. He dropped like an ep I. Guess this week.
Speaker 1: I only listened to one song because I heard it
Speaker 1: was like the song that was about Olivia and it's
Speaker 1: called it's called crisis, and the first lyric and it
Speaker 1: is my My label said to never waste a crisis.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of all about like using pain for
Speaker 1: profit in the music industry. On Wednesday, Okay, sorry, honey,
Speaker 1: you wasted the crisis. This happened months and months ago,
Speaker 1: like he did not, but it's still like it was trending,
Speaker 1: like the girls were fighting, um he and so like
Speaker 1: in the song, he basically accuses her of like, you know,
Speaker 1: reframing everything to make her look like, you know, like
Speaker 1: more of the victim in their relationship than she actually was.
Speaker 1: Like he even he even eludes the fact that she
Speaker 1: was the one who broke up with him and not
Speaker 1: the other way around. Oh, that's a serious accustion, and
Speaker 1: and that like you know, he was like reaching out
Speaker 1: to her and all she was doing was you know,
Speaker 1: like you like making the best of a crisis and
Speaker 1: becoming famous from it, and you know what, baby, it worked.
Speaker 1: She went to the Taylor Swift school of turning your
Speaker 1: interpersonal drama into un profitable art. Yes, I don't think
Speaker 1: it's surprised going to be surprising for anyone to hear
Speaker 1: that Sex and City is deeply were to me was
Speaker 1: extremely formative for me. Fran was it for you? You know? Um,
Speaker 1: it is very easily a top three favorite TV shows
Speaker 1: for me of all time. But I didn't start watching
Speaker 1: it until late college, and then I think I didn't
Speaker 1: finish it until I moved to New York like five
Speaker 1: or six years ago. I think it's like a distinctly
Speaker 1: like kind of like late twenties early thirties show because
Speaker 1: they've grown out of, um, they're still really messy, but
Speaker 1: they've grown out of a lot of like, you know,
Speaker 1: things that you're doing like your first like kind of
Speaker 1: decade of relationships and doing relationships stuff, and now alongside
Speaker 1: that they're dealing with all this adult stuff related to
Speaker 1: getting an apartment, getting a job, like all, you know,
Speaker 1: the things that the show kind of followed. It is
Speaker 1: people who are a little more settled into their selves
Speaker 1: and their identities on their careers. Like it's not a
Speaker 1: show where you know, Carrie moves to the big city
Speaker 1: and like has to figure out what she wants to do.
Speaker 1: Like she starts the show as an established writer. Everyone
Speaker 1: else is like established in their professions. You are kind
Speaker 1: of dropped very immediately into all of their identities. And
Speaker 1: then it's this thing that I'm now finding as I
Speaker 1: get older, when all of that stuff is kind of
Speaker 1: figured out, like when you have a stable job and
Speaker 1: income and like basically all of your basic human needs
Speaker 1: are met, then you start being like, oh, what else
Speaker 1: is there to focus on love and relationships? And it's
Speaker 1: like that is so ta I've never thought about it
Speaker 1: that way. What do you think people think misguidedly about
Speaker 1: Sex in the City. I think that people take for
Speaker 1: granted the fact that despite how like problematic and of
Speaker 1: its time slash dated now it is, it still is
Speaker 1: a really deep show that introduces ideas that were ahead
Speaker 1: of their time. That doesn't mean the whole show was
Speaker 1: head of its time, but there's so many different encapsulated
Speaker 1: moments and ideas that have stuck with me as a
Speaker 1: person forever period, even though it's also so stupid. Well,
Speaker 1: if you have been living under a rock or I
Speaker 1: guess are like a teenager and you don't know what
Speaker 1: Sex in the City is about. Sex in the City
Speaker 1: is based on a column that Candice Bushnell used to write,
Speaker 1: and it is a fictionalized version of her named Carrie Bradshaw,
Speaker 1: And it's about Carrie Bradshaw, who's a columnist for the
Speaker 1: New York Star, which is not a real newspaper. She
Speaker 1: writes a weekly column called Sex in the City where
Speaker 1: she talks about her romantic exploits and also the exploits
Speaker 1: of her friends, um, and which I also like, did
Speaker 1: her friends read her column ever? And we're like, um,
Speaker 1: can you stop talking about that my personal life? Okay. Actually,
Speaker 1: the only time that her column does affect her personal life,
Speaker 1: which it should every episode, but the one episode where
Speaker 1: I did was when she is dating of the politicians, yes,
Speaker 1: which is the only guy that she really should have
Speaker 1: stayed Well he is what one of We'll get to
Speaker 1: this later, but like it is one of my favorite
Speaker 1: love interests for Sherry's and maybe the whole show, the
Speaker 1: one who wants her to pee on him in the shower,
Speaker 1: which is like such a fine ass, but that's the
Speaker 1: thing is that okay. So if we were to talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, the things that people get wrong about the show,
Speaker 1: the things that they get right about this show is
Speaker 1: that it is so kind of prudish, prudent. Well, Harry
Speaker 1: is the worst sex columnist the word. She is such
Speaker 1: a prude. She wears a bra to bed, she never unless,
Speaker 1: she never curses. She's like so sexually unadventurous and so boring,
Speaker 1: and so she all she does is mine her friends
Speaker 1: personalized for her column because she isn't getting any not
Speaker 1: she's doing missionary, you know, like she just has the
Speaker 1: most vanilla idea of like what it means to have sex,
Speaker 1: because all of her ideas around like sex and intimacy
Speaker 1: are too tied to a storybook fairy tale of what
Speaker 1: love is, and I think it convolutes the goals that
Speaker 1: she actually has, and therefore she doesn't have anything. Well,
Speaker 1: Carrie is a romantic at heart um. But thankfully the
Speaker 1: show is rounded out with characters who have different perspectives
Speaker 1: on love and sex and dating and relationships. There is Miranda,
Speaker 1: who's a high powered lawyer who very much is like
Speaker 1: guarded and doesn't want to let love in. There's Charlotte,
Speaker 1: who is you know, like um an art gallerist weirdly,
Speaker 1: which makes her feel like she should be much more
Speaker 1: progressive than she is. But it's actually like a park
Speaker 1: Avenue Pollyanna who just wants to find Prince Charming and
Speaker 1: get married. And then there's Samantha who is a publicist
Speaker 1: and a very good publicist, a very good publicist and
Speaker 1: a sex positive icon who just wants to fuck her
Speaker 1: way through New York and has They are all like um,
Speaker 1: identifiably very good at their jobs. But what's confused thing
Speaker 1: is that Carrie is a columnist and still like she
Speaker 1: shouldn't make that much money, but she can still afford
Speaker 1: like Manola blonics and an apartment that has a corner
Speaker 1: you can turn. Yeah, but like this is a fantasy
Speaker 1: that to me is like when people have critiques of
Speaker 1: sex in the City, that one which is like, how
Speaker 1: does she afford all those shoes? It's like, no, don't, baby,
Speaker 1: we got big we got bigger fish to fry. I
Speaker 1: think it's she's independent. It's a it's a fantasy. It's
Speaker 1: not about that, of course, but of course you couldn't
Speaker 1: afford that, But like, if you really want to if
Speaker 1: you really want to find like some kind of rational excuse,
Speaker 1: like Carrie Bradshaw's an it girl, she is maybe like
Speaker 1: a proto influencer that I was going to say, a
Speaker 1: primordial influencer for sure. I feel like, um, if we
Speaker 1: were to kind of create a maybe a little bit
Speaker 1: of a rationale for the writers, I do think that
Speaker 1: maybe in this age, when did the show come out?
Speaker 1: So inn maybe this was before print media crashed. Do
Speaker 1: you remember this was like during the newspaper but the
Speaker 1: cave the caveman ears of the internet and in that era,
Speaker 1: but actually premiered. Okay, so in that era or like
Speaker 1: a little bit before that era, like writers were getting
Speaker 1: paid really well, Like you could get paid like a
Speaker 1: few thousand dollars to write one feature and you have
Speaker 1: like a month or two to write. She definitely could
Speaker 1: have made a living off of her column, but not
Speaker 1: the kind, not the kind of living she had. They
Speaker 1: do make allusions to, like she's in an extreme amount
Speaker 1: of credit card debt. There's a you know, there's an
Speaker 1: episode in season four after she's broken up with Aidan
Speaker 1: where she has to like get a loan from Charlotte
Speaker 1: to buy her apartment. She says, I'm literally going to
Speaker 1: be the old woman who lived in her shoes. Wait, wait,
Speaker 1: let's break this down quickly, because it's actually that she
Speaker 1: needed to get a loan from Charlotte. It's that Carrie
Speaker 1: looks at her bank account for the first time in
Speaker 1: her adult life, and she goes, Oh, I'm a ba
Speaker 1: billion dollars in credit card debt. Charlotte. If you don't
Speaker 1: lend me thirty dollars, you don't love me and you're
Speaker 1: not my friend. She literally does that. You know, I
Speaker 1: actually always used to think about how much money, like
Speaker 1: in that episode Carrie sees is in her checkings and
Speaker 1: savings account, and have kind of like helped that to
Speaker 1: myself as like, I never want to be at that
Speaker 1: point where I have like as little money as carry
Speaker 1: the number in it. I want to know, she says it.
Speaker 1: She says she has like seven hundred in her checking
Speaker 1: and like fifteen hundred and savings, and she is so
Speaker 1: I wonder how much credit card that she had A
Speaker 1: lot I have a well. There's an episode in season one,
Speaker 1: The Power of Female Sex, where Carrie Um goes to
Speaker 1: buy a pair of Dulce and Gabana canceled um, fuzzy
Speaker 1: shoes and the cashier cuts up her credit card because
Speaker 1: the company told him to do that. Like, can you
Speaker 1: imagine any whatever? Can you imagine going to Trader Joe's
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, the like you try to use
Speaker 1: Apple Bay and they're like they told me to do this.
Speaker 1: They take your phone and throw it on the ground.
Speaker 1: Can we imagine your Trader Joe's cashier crushed doing That's
Speaker 1: not speak of him because I'm I think I might
Speaker 1: have to go there later today and he's going to
Speaker 1: be there, and I'm like not prepared to see him.
Speaker 1: I love that you said that. He's like because I
Speaker 1: kind of cute, you know, in his shifts. I I
Speaker 1: do know when when my Trader Joe's crushed. Trader Joe's
Speaker 1: cashiers are diabolical. They are trained, They're trained in the
Speaker 1: art of seduction like James Bond villains. It is disgusting
Speaker 1: and insidious. Speaking though, of crushes and love interests, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously a huge part of Sex in the City is
Speaker 1: all of the different love interests that Carrie, Samantha Brandon,
Speaker 1: Charlotte have had over the years. Who is your favorite
Speaker 1: of I guess like, let's start out with like the
Speaker 1: big ones. Samantha, you know, she is mostly about sexual exploits,
Speaker 1: but she does have some very significant relationships, which are
Speaker 1: Smith Jared and Richard Wright. Charlotte has her two husbands,
Speaker 1: Harry and Trey. Miranda really kind of only has Steve Um. Well,
Speaker 1: she has a lot of like yeah, yeah, but Steve
Speaker 1: is the main relationship. They all kind of high key dates,
Speaker 1: some like really busted men. And then Carrie has big
Speaker 1: Burger Aiden and Alexander fucking Petrovski. Oh, I forgot about
Speaker 1: the guy, the fucking aggression guy. I forgot about this.
Speaker 1: So of for for all of the women, who's your
Speaker 1: favorite of their relationships? Unfortunately I am extremely basic and predictable.
Speaker 1: And I do think that Smith Jared is is so
Speaker 1: gorgeous and a really good lover to Samantha, and he
Speaker 1: does invite her out. He he kind of invites her
Speaker 1: out of her old ways, like he says, like, Samantha,
Speaker 1: you have intimacy issues, you can't really love someone. I'm
Speaker 1: showing you away that I can love you, but you
Speaker 1: can still be your own woman. And I thought that
Speaker 1: that was actually really well done. And even though he's
Speaker 1: so much younger than her, that they are perfect, a
Speaker 1: perfect match. But in terms of who I am like,
Speaker 1: I have absolutely been the Miranda in a relationship with
Speaker 1: at least two Steve's, if not three, and and every
Speaker 1: single time it's like this guy who is an abundance
Speaker 1: of like Golden Retriever esque love, like wants nothing more
Speaker 1: than to just love and hold this person. And I'm Miranda,
Speaker 1: like cannot understand or comprehend why someone would love me,
Speaker 1: and so I hold that person at an arm's length
Speaker 1: and it creates all of this at tension that that
Speaker 1: rings true for me as well. I like what you
Speaker 1: said about Smith, Jared. I do think that I like
Speaker 1: Richard right because he's the person that first really cracks
Speaker 1: Samantha open and like the relationship ends in a very
Speaker 1: devastating way. But is that the one that ends with
Speaker 1: the shot with a dance in the shot with the
Speaker 1: shot a song and the I don't know anyways that
Speaker 1: know they go swimming to a shot I song? Um?
Speaker 1: But yes, um. Richard is the first person who kind
Speaker 1: of makes Samantha vulnerable. And even though you know, obviously
Speaker 1: we love Samantha being the like bitchy slut icon that
Speaker 1: she is. I also like those moments where she gets vulnerable.
Speaker 1: Interesting about the four women's Loves Love Lives is all
Speaker 1: four of them, like throughout all six seasons are dealing
Speaker 1: with basically one singular intimacy issue, and all all four
Speaker 1: of them have intimacy issues for different reasons. It's like
Speaker 1: Samantha has conflated like love with sex and only pursue
Speaker 1: sex and can't say love around that. And then Charlotte
Speaker 1: has you know, a worm brain that has been you know,
Speaker 1: demented by I don't know, Anglo Saxon Christianity, and she
Speaker 1: thinks that like women should be pure and wives and
Speaker 1: like whatever, and it makes her enable unable to likely.
Speaker 1: I also think with her it's that she thinks that
Speaker 1: the way things look is more important than how they
Speaker 1: actually are, which is what you see happen with her
Speaker 1: first marriage with Trey, like is on paper the perfect
Speaker 1: husband and then they have all of these intimacy issues
Speaker 1: and end up getting divorced. But I mean, I am
Speaker 1: team Tray because he's played by Kyle McLaughlin. I mean
Speaker 1: that he's so fucking sexy and Kyle McLaughlin is He's
Speaker 1: so good in that role it's such it's a perfect alrighty,
Speaker 1: a true character like character. And he gave us Bunny McDougall,
Speaker 1: his mother, who is one of the best character she
Speaker 1: I honestly, I don't know if she's alive, um, but
Speaker 1: I wish she was going to be in and just
Speaker 1: like that, I wish she was replacing Samantha right, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, that would be incredible. So and so Charlotte, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like caught up in this idea of like being
Speaker 1: a wife. And then Miranda is the quintessential like I'm
Speaker 1: not in love with a man, I'm in love with
Speaker 1: my job girl, Like she is like conflating herself worse
Speaker 1: with with yes, her career and like how she goes
Speaker 1: to work. And then Carrie is caught up in this
Speaker 1: fairy tale esque idea of love that is an artifice
Speaker 1: and like not real, you know. And but for me,
Speaker 1: like with Charlotte specifically, I think it's such a dag
Speaker 1: that she got married to Kyle McLaughlin and had they
Speaker 1: had never had sex, and only after they get married
Speaker 1: she discovers that he can't get an owner. But you
Speaker 1: know what, like you you think about sex in the city,
Speaker 1: and like when you think about the sex, you like
Speaker 1: immediately think about Samantha, but I think of all of them,
Speaker 1: especially in the early seasons, Charlotte has the most boyfriends
Speaker 1: and has the most sex because the tension comes from
Speaker 1: her values like bumping up against what men wanted. And
Speaker 1: also I think the fact that deep down she was
Speaker 1: like an embodied sexual person as you see, Like I
Speaker 1: love that scene where she and Trey are working through
Speaker 1: his his impotence and like they've been talking about the
Speaker 1: whole like Madonna horror dichotomy, and she's like, I'm a woman,
Speaker 1: Like I'm not a Madonna and I'm not a horror
Speaker 1: And like I think it's a really like nice moment
Speaker 1: of her like owning her sexuality, and she gives us
Speaker 1: in the early season some of the best like funniest
Speaker 1: moments dealing with sexuality. Like I always think about the
Speaker 1: scene in the cab when like one of her the
Speaker 1: men she's dating, wants to do anal and so she
Speaker 1: picks all the women up in a taxi and they're
Speaker 1: they're talking about it and like carry lights a cigarette
Speaker 1: and the cab drivers like you can't smoke in here,
Speaker 1: and she's like we're talking up the butt a cigarette
Speaker 1: was required, and then the cab stopped short and Charlotte goes,
Speaker 1: what was that? And they go a preview? But umm,
Speaker 1: like talking about anal sex on TV, like no one
Speaker 1: was doing it. To my point, That's why, like, there
Speaker 1: are so many moments of the show where it's just like, oh,
Speaker 1: that really was ahead of its time. I really want
Speaker 1: to know who your favorite like love interests were. But
Speaker 1: you also reminded me of a quick moment where when
Speaker 1: Charlotte dates that guy who like checks all the boxes.
Speaker 1: He's like basically perfect, except for the fact that every
Speaker 1: time he comes he goes, you fucking horror, you fucking bitch,
Speaker 1: you fucking horror. And every time he does it, she's like,
Speaker 1: why did you say? He's like what, I didn't say anything,
Speaker 1: Like he just like blacks out. It's really funny, Like
Speaker 1: that is like that stays funny. That's that's another thing
Speaker 1: about the show that I really adores. Like, yes, so
Speaker 1: much of it is so dated, but things like that,
Speaker 1: it's like that will be funny for decades. Anyways, Who
Speaker 1: were your favorite love interests? Who what we've already kind
Speaker 1: of talked about like some of the other women, but
Speaker 1: I will say like, I think some of the biggest
Speaker 1: divides are about Carrie's boyfriends, because Carrie is the main character.
Speaker 1: And I do think like in a way, she's kind
Speaker 1: of like an avatar for the audience, Like she's a
Speaker 1: little bit of an every woman. And I am not
Speaker 1: team Big. I am team Aiden. I Okay, I knew
Speaker 1: you were a team Aiden. However, Big is your type.
Speaker 1: Big is one of my type, one of your types,
Speaker 1: one of my types. But I think actually Aiden's are
Speaker 1: the men I go for, so when I go for men's.
Speaker 1: So if you were to answer that question, Aiden is
Speaker 1: your favorite love interest, He's for Carrie, definitely. He's Aidan
Speaker 1: is the love interest that causes her to grow the
Speaker 1: most um because of the things that she experiences through him,
Speaker 1: which are cheating on someone getting engaged like Aiden really
Speaker 1: forces her to grow up in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: And I just think he's he's really hot both times
Speaker 1: he shows up when like the first time when he's
Speaker 1: a little more crunchy, the second time when he's a
Speaker 1: hair kind the haircut furniture designer. He makes her that
Speaker 1: amazing chair that's in her apartment, which I love the
Speaker 1: fact that he makes like furniture is actually like two
Speaker 1: on the nose, and he has like a house up state,
Speaker 1: doesn't he. Yes, a lot of suffered and very relatively
Speaker 1: a lot of the women's love interests are kind of
Speaker 1: oriented based on the fact of whether or not their
Speaker 1: love interest owns property, like the fact that, yes, that's
Speaker 1: relatable people just because they had a place on Fire
Speaker 1: Island exactly. I definitely stayed with a guy for like
Speaker 1: an extra month because he had like an apartment the
Speaker 1: Upper east Side that his parents paid for that like
Speaker 1: I needed to like live in from n And also,
Speaker 1: let let this be said, like I think it's prescient
Speaker 1: that I bring up that Fire Island analogy because this
Speaker 1: show was created and for all of its run helmed
Speaker 1: by gay men, and even though there were a lot
Speaker 1: of SIS hetero women in the room, I do think
Speaker 1: that these characters, to varying degrees, do not do not
Speaker 1: actually behave like sis hetero women. They behave like gay men.
Speaker 1: That is, yeah, I'm sure there's something. Yeah, And then
Speaker 1: and there is like an element of sex in the
Speaker 1: city where it is like gay men's ideas of how
Speaker 1: SIS women engage in the world. Yes, oh my god,
Speaker 1: like oh my god. That's so oh my god, Rose,
Speaker 1: you just blew my mind with that. That's so true
Speaker 1: because like they're so kind of like again like very
Speaker 1: rudimentary ideas of like sex and intimacy, because intimacy, because
Speaker 1: like gay men have these issues, and like, if there's
Speaker 1: one thing we have to thank Michael Patrick King for
Speaker 1: it is that he is an arbiter of gay idiot culture.
Speaker 1: And that, to me is like something the show does
Speaker 1: really well is like these moments where it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: how many times I rewatch it. When Samantha has sex
Speaker 1: on viagra for the first time, I will rewatch that
Speaker 1: scene over and over again until I die. There is
Speaker 1: nothing funnier another episode that does feel like it's it's
Speaker 1: something that happened to a gay man, Yes, exactly, but
Speaker 1: you know, I think the seeds of that are planted
Speaker 1: really early on. You know, there is obviously Sex in
Speaker 1: the City is a big part of queer culture, and
Speaker 1: there's so much potential for queer readings of it, and
Speaker 1: the show itself sets it up from the very beginning.
Speaker 1: You know, Carrie's first question in the entire show, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously she has a question in every episode. Her first
Speaker 1: question is can women have sex like men? Which is
Speaker 1: like the show starts off with this gender subversion. We're
Speaker 1: blowing my mind right now, Rose dam I never thought
Speaker 1: about I have thought very deeply and critically about sex
Speaker 1: in the City, and I also consume a lot of
Speaker 1: like very smart people's takes on sex in the City. Um,
Speaker 1: if you want, you know, like a more continuous version
Speaker 1: of this conversation we're having today, I would definitely recommend
Speaker 1: you check out the podcast. So I got to thinking,
Speaker 1: which is um, Juno Dawson and Dylan P. Jones. They
Speaker 1: go through episode by episode and give like a contemporary
Speaker 1: queer reading of sex in the City. But as I
Speaker 1: was saying, you know, the show starts in this place
Speaker 1: where I think women had and I think they even
Speaker 1: say this in the show, Um, this is the first
Speaker 1: time in the history of the world. They do say
Speaker 1: this in the first episode, this is the first time
Speaker 1: in the history of the world that women have had
Speaker 1: as much money and power as men, And that very
Speaker 1: It's a great pilot episode that it like very succinctly
Speaker 1: sets up the worldview, the universe and the you know,
Speaker 1: the questions that the show will will be exploring and
Speaker 1: a lot of them are like very deeply about gender
Speaker 1: and sexuality in ways that like, yes, I think have
Speaker 1: been you know, largely applied as the show has grown
Speaker 1: in popularity, have been largely applied to since hetero relationships.
Speaker 1: But there there is queerness insects in the city, both
Speaker 1: in terms of like what's on the page and on
Speaker 1: the screen, and also the people who are behind the
Speaker 1: scenes and in you know, the people who are consuming
Speaker 1: it and like applying it to the ways that we
Speaker 1: think about ourselves, our identities and relationships. So you have
Speaker 1: very you have given a very salient reading of like
Speaker 1: implicit queerness in the show, gender role reversal, gay men
Speaker 1: as avatars for these women, etcetera. Um. But there is
Speaker 1: also like literal quote unquote queer characters and moments in
Speaker 1: the show. Well, I mean Stanford Blatch, Willie Garson rest
Speaker 1: in peace. We've talked about him on this podcast before
Speaker 1: he died a couple of months ago. I think a
Speaker 1: lot about the episode where Carrie does a runway show
Speaker 1: with Dolce and Gabana canceled um, and there they basically
Speaker 1: keep making things for her and she's not really satisfied
Speaker 1: with them, and no one's really listening to her, and
Speaker 1: Stanford is like behind is like behind the scenes on
Speaker 1: the Runway show. She's like all dolled up, and she's
Speaker 1: frustrated because she feels like she's not being set up
Speaker 1: for success. And she turns to Stanford and I wonder
Speaker 1: if they did this knowingly or unknowingly. But she turns
Speaker 1: to Stanford and she says, Stanford, no one is listening
Speaker 1: to me. All they're doing is telling me I'm fabulous.
Speaker 1: And to me, it's like a very meta moment because
Speaker 1: the failure of Stanford as a character is that all
Speaker 1: the women and characters of the show do exact like
Speaker 1: that to Stanford, Like, he has a lot of like
Speaker 1: human moments and a lot of nuance, but for the
Speaker 1: most part, he is and the quintessential like accessory of
Speaker 1: like a friend, and more often than not, they don't
Speaker 1: care about his life or his interior and interiority. They're
Speaker 1: just kind of like, oh my god, Standford, your fabulous.
Speaker 1: He has a couple of you know, like b plots
Speaker 1: in episodes, but the fact that they made him marry
Speaker 1: that asshole like like that it's so annoying. You know.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about the second movie a bit, but like
Speaker 1: it's so it's so basic, like Michael Patrick King really
Speaker 1: to have the only two gay characters in the show
Speaker 1: marry each other when they have actively hated each other
Speaker 1: for the entire series. And not just that, but like
Speaker 1: the guy, the guy that isn't Stanford Anthony Marantina a
Speaker 1: great actor, but the character openly makes fun of Stanford's
Speaker 1: appearance constantly, even like at his wedding, And it's like
Speaker 1: that to me, was that's hard to watch, Like and
Speaker 1: I someone who loves crass humor, loves like asshole humor,
Speaker 1: loves veep stuff like that. It just didn't transcend. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just it's like too easy, like try harder, write better.
Speaker 1: But that is, you know, throughout Sex in the City,
Speaker 1: Like obviously, you know, we say this is a show
Speaker 1: that is very of its time. That means that the
Speaker 1: times when queerness was presented in explicit ways, it was
Speaker 1: very very of the moment um in uh not not
Speaker 1: great ways, like you know, of course, there is the
Speaker 1: episode in which Carry dates a bisexual man and like
Speaker 1: completely repeatedly invalidates his identity. Easily one of my favorite
Speaker 1: episodes to date because so profoundly bad. Yes, and she
Speaker 1: does kiss Atlanta's morrist at the end of the game
Speaker 1: of spin the bottle. My favorite part about that climax is, like,
Speaker 1: you know, she spent the whole episode being very dubious
Speaker 1: of queerness by sexuals, that it's even a real thing.
Speaker 1: Like Samantha has this whole moment where she checks her
Speaker 1: and to me, it feels like it's reading on cultural
Speaker 1: sentiment at the time. Maybe criticism of the show at
Speaker 1: the time was Carrie, why are you supprued? And there's
Speaker 1: a moment where Samantha maybe the writers took this into
Speaker 1: account or like took this feedback. Samantha says to Carry,
Speaker 1: like carry for a sex calumnist, you're pretty close minded, Like,
Speaker 1: which is such tea, such tea? And I don't know
Speaker 1: how they weren't, you know, saying that to her every
Speaker 1: episode every episode. But one of the one of the
Speaker 1: few episodes that like explore that has a queer subplot
Speaker 1: that I think actually kind of gets it right a
Speaker 1: little better is the one where Charlotte Um becomes friends
Speaker 1: with like the lesbian mafia who are buying paintings from
Speaker 1: her art gallery and like really wants to be one
Speaker 1: of them and like it like shows off this really cool,
Speaker 1: fun rich group of hot lesbians. And ultimately, like Charlotte
Speaker 1: is told, baby, if you're not gay, you can't hang
Speaker 1: with us. You can't keep like you know, like string
Speaker 1: so long. Um, and she's like, if you don't eat pussy,
Speaker 1: you don't belong here. Yeah, but I do. I do
Speaker 1: like that that like moment of a queer person asserting
Speaker 1: that a straight person can't literally gatekeeping in the best
Speaker 1: way possible. But that the resolution of that episode, to me,
Speaker 1: what I was saying before about the bisexual episode has
Speaker 1: like a similar kind of like like kind of like
Speaker 1: resolution where the characters kind of spend this whole arc
Speaker 1: being like very doubtful of like a queer culture that
Speaker 1: any of this is real, and then they have this
Speaker 1: crystallizing moment i e. Kissing Alanis Morisset or Charlotte deciding
Speaker 1: whether or not she's going to go on this ski
Speaker 1: trip with these art buying lesbian mafia people, and um,
Speaker 1: you know, after she kisses Alanas Morrisset carries just like,
Speaker 1: well called me old fashioned, but I'm a homophobe, and
Speaker 1: she like walks down like the kind of like Brooklyn Warehouse,
Speaker 1: like walk up, and she's like, I also love that
Speaker 1: in that that episode, she's like devastated by the prospect
Speaker 1: of like going to Brooklyn, Like she like doesn't consider
Speaker 1: it like a viable thing. But at the end of
Speaker 1: the chart of that Charlotte episode, I I do love
Speaker 1: that she kind of maybe understands her place. And both
Speaker 1: of these women in these two episodes, respectively, are looking
Speaker 1: to be included in our basic are struggling with the
Speaker 1: idea of being included in something that they don't actually
Speaker 1: belong to, something that isn't for them, something that isn't
Speaker 1: for them, and they, as white women, cannot actually fathom that,
Speaker 1: and that's why they get as far as they do,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yes, Um, And you know
Speaker 1: there's there's other little moments of queerness, like the episode
Speaker 1: where UM one of shares and it's it's funny how
Speaker 1: Charlotte is the one who kind of like and keeps
Speaker 1: interacting with this UM. Charlotte has a client and an
Speaker 1: artist of the gallery who does these UM takes these
Speaker 1: photos of drag kings and has her dress up in drag.
Speaker 1: And it's when she's in drag that she becomes like
Speaker 1: sexually powerful and that the man is like into her,
Speaker 1: and it's like such a great moment of gender fuckory
Speaker 1: with no explicit kind of like you know, criticism on
Speaker 1: like the gender of it all. It's so like unset,
Speaker 1: but it's still all there. Yeah, and um, of course
Speaker 1: you know Samantha does date a woman, Maria, Maria, I
Speaker 1: just I just like my my favorite moment of that
Speaker 1: whole thing is when Samantha takes them out to dinner
Speaker 1: to tell them and she goes, yes, ladies, I'm a lesbian,
Speaker 1: and Miranda's like sitting right there like the fun you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like I and the women have
Speaker 1: like the worst reaction to her telling them that. Like,
Speaker 1: of course, we've all had that experience of you go
Speaker 1: out with a friend, they tell you something, and then
Speaker 1: you leave with your other friends and you just spend
Speaker 1: the whole walk home talking shit about this. That is
Speaker 1: extremely relatable. It is also still very problem out. Yeah
Speaker 1: it's sucked up, but you know, not to give these
Speaker 1: women the benefit benefit of the doubt, but Samantha is
Speaker 1: I'm a lesbian, yes, And Samantha is very prone to
Speaker 1: one hyperbole like, ladies, I'm a yes, but to like
Speaker 1: saying shitty things for attention, like Samantha loves doing that,
Speaker 1: and so I think they are kind of trying to.
Speaker 1: I mean, Samantha speaks in memes, yes, yeah, she does,
Speaker 1: and they're they're both they're obviously being like openly homophobic
Speaker 1: about it, but they but they down to the bottom.
Speaker 1: They see they understand Samantha, Samantha's character and her personality,
Speaker 1: and that there's something about this relationship that is doesn't
Speaker 1: quite lader up now now I'm just thinking about like
Speaker 1: iconic sex and the City Line readings that I have
Speaker 1: to say this before I forget it. But when Miranda
Speaker 1: finds out she's pregnant, Um, there's the scene where she
Speaker 1: and Carrie go to get pizza afterwards and they're like
Speaker 1: talking about what how Steve wants her to keep the baby,
Speaker 1: and Carrie's like, well, what if you did? And Miranda's like,
Speaker 1: you know what, You're right, Fuck my life, I'm having
Speaker 1: Steve's baby pizza for everybody. And it is like the
Speaker 1: one of the funniest moments in sex in this Do
Speaker 1: you think that Miranda should have had the baby? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You do? Yeah, I thought that she shouldn't have had
Speaker 1: the baby. I actually like that it is. I think
Speaker 1: her keeping the baby is so much more interesting from
Speaker 1: a story perspective when when you're thinking about Miranda specifically,
Speaker 1: and it does turn the character of Miranda on her head,
Speaker 1: you know, oh yeah, it's it's what forces her to
Speaker 1: open up a diametric and let love in. Um. While
Speaker 1: we're talking about, you know, problematic queerness as it is
Speaker 1: represented in Sex in the City, we have to talk
Speaker 1: about season three, episode eighteen, cockadoodle do do we have
Speaker 1: to talk about it? So earlier in season three, Samantha
Speaker 1: moves to the fashionable meatpacking district, which, as Carrie said,
Speaker 1: is full of friendly neighborhood transsexual And it should be
Speaker 1: also quickly mentioned that in season three there is a
Speaker 1: tree odd of what are maybe the three of the
Speaker 1: most problematic episodes of the show, which is the episodehere
Speaker 1: Carry dates a bisexual and then right after that the
Speaker 1: episode where Samantha dates a black guy, and that's the
Speaker 1: whole plot is the fact that she's that he's black.
Speaker 1: And then this third episode where this the trans women
Speaker 1: in her neighborhood are like introduced. Yes, in the last
Speaker 1: episode of the season, you know, Samantha is trying to
Speaker 1: live her best life in the meatpacking district, but she
Speaker 1: can't because there are you know, trans sex workers out
Speaker 1: her window who are making too much noise, and she
Speaker 1: like calls them like basically every slur you can call
Speaker 1: a trans person um refers to their anatomy and really
Speaker 1: gross ways as to all the other women's. Um. She
Speaker 1: uh pours a pot of water out the window onto
Speaker 1: one of them, UM like and yeah, and they throw
Speaker 1: eggs at her in retaliation um. And then ultimately the
Speaker 1: episode and with them all having a lovely barbecue together
Speaker 1: on her roof when they again like make a joke
Speaker 1: about one of their you know, Genitalia. I forgot that
Speaker 1: they have this like kumbayam moment and and oh and
Speaker 1: and Carrie definitely does like a black scent um in
Speaker 1: that in that episode, which is like so, but she
Speaker 1: is wearing an amazing vintage Louis of Baton like romper
Speaker 1: while she does it, So I guess it's okay. I wonder,
Speaker 1: and this is like so complicated to an earth like
Speaker 1: I wonder what my reaction was to it watching it
Speaker 1: for the first time. I also wonder, well, when when
Speaker 1: did you watch it for the first time when it
Speaker 1: was airing. I mean, like, where were you in your life?
Speaker 1: I was a teenager so and I'm also wondering though, like,
Speaker 1: even though this is awful representation, was this one of
Speaker 1: the first times that I understood what a transperson was?
Speaker 1: Did Sex in the City introduce me to that? Like,
Speaker 1: because I'm trying to think of what other portrayals I
Speaker 1: would have seen, and they would have been like ace Ventura,
Speaker 1: Rocky horror picture show, and then probably this episode of
Speaker 1: Sex in the City. Yeah, so like as problematic, which
Speaker 1: you know, I hate that word because it's just like
Speaker 1: so overused. Um, but it in a way like is
Speaker 1: was part of me even forming like the beginnings of
Speaker 1: an understanding of trans identity. So that is that is
Speaker 1: the legacy of this of of like this era where
Speaker 1: you know, um, there was all of this media being
Speaker 1: made that kind of like popped the lid off of
Speaker 1: how people were living like more progressively in cities like
Speaker 1: New York. Like you know, they were putting queer people
Speaker 1: on the TV screens of people in Middle America, but
Speaker 1: you know, not not in the best way. You know,
Speaker 1: New York City really is like this adjust as you're
Speaker 1: saying a fifth character in the show, but it's not
Speaker 1: the real New York City. It's like, um, an Emerald
Speaker 1: City version of New York City. It's like a New
Speaker 1: York City where everything in that city is exaggerated. And
Speaker 1: something that I do appreciate about the fact that it
Speaker 1: may have moved so many people to New York City
Speaker 1: or you know, in the reverse, injected a lot of
Speaker 1: things that Manhattanites were talking about, um into the rest
Speaker 1: of the country where they're not talking about, which must
Speaker 1: have been like maybe for some people of barrier of
Speaker 1: entry because um, you know, we were texting about Gossip
Speaker 1: Girl this week and you were saying, like, this feels
Speaker 1: so insider baseball, Like they're making all of these references
Speaker 1: that like, how could people who don't live in New
Speaker 1: York even understand them? And I was saying, well, like
Speaker 1: that was the whole thing that the original Gossip Girl did,
Speaker 1: which was really following the Sex and the City playbook.
Speaker 1: You know, they were talking about places and things and
Speaker 1: references that people who are watching the show, like know,
Speaker 1: in the Midwest or like in Florida or like whatever,
Speaker 1: still still enjoying it and having no idea what they
Speaker 1: were talking about still love Broad City, and that's like
Speaker 1: all New York, but it also created this fantasy version
Speaker 1: of New York City that then the people who eventually
Speaker 1: went there, they're going expecting the New York City of
Speaker 1: sex in the City. And I do think like that
Speaker 1: fantasy version of New York like does exist for the
Speaker 1: people who believe in it, who go there and who
Speaker 1: like go on Sex in the City tours, and like
Speaker 1: even me, you know, I, um, when I moved to
Speaker 1: Los Angeles last year, my last weekend in New York,
Speaker 1: my best friend and I did, like he he had
Speaker 1: rented a car, and like we went around to all
Speaker 1: my favorite places in the city and not even just
Speaker 1: my favorite places, but like the most kind of like
Speaker 1: quintessentially New York places. Um, we went to CATS's Delhi,
Speaker 1: We went to mid Town and went to Wicked. Um
Speaker 1: like not I mean, this was during the pandemic, so
Speaker 1: obviously wasn't open. We didn't see the show, but we
Speaker 1: just like went to the theater by the Wicked Theater,
Speaker 1: and and we like went by my old apartment on
Speaker 1: the Lower East Side and we went to Carrie Bradshaw's apartment,
Speaker 1: which is in the West Village, like her apartment is
Speaker 1: like in the show is uptown. That's like the actual
Speaker 1: like building that they filmed in is in the West Village.
Speaker 1: And there's like a little there's a little sign, there's
Speaker 1: like a little chain so that you won't go on
Speaker 1: the steps. And where do you go after that? To
Speaker 1: Magnolia Bakery because because it's right around the corner, and
Speaker 1: like also is like a Sex in the City like spot,
Speaker 1: because there's a scene where Carrie and Miranda have cupcakes
Speaker 1: outside of it, and like Sex in the City put
Speaker 1: places like Magnolia Bakery on the map, which we are
Speaker 1: not grateful for. We don't need Magnolia Bakery on the map.
Speaker 1: And it's because of the prevalence of Magnolia Bakery that
Speaker 1: after you know, those moments in the show, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, every block had a fucking cupcake shop and
Speaker 1: the arrow where do you not like cupcakes? Cupcakes are stupid?
Speaker 1: They are there. First of all, cake in general is
Speaker 1: like an unfinished idea. Okay, I have I have no
Speaker 1: space to hold I'm not holding space for that conversation. Well,
Speaker 1: that's because vanilla dessert. You are a vanilla cake with
Speaker 1: vanilla Frosting Girl, and that says everything that Magnolie Bakery.
Speaker 1: They're not the best cupcakes in New York. I do
Speaker 1: think the best cupcakes in New York are at Billy's
Speaker 1: Bakery and Chelsea on Avenue. But I will not hear
Speaker 1: cakes slander on this podcast. Well, you know, we're talking
Speaker 1: about kind of the legacy of Sex in the City
Speaker 1: and the ways in which it has like stuck around
Speaker 1: in pop culture. You know, the show ended UM and
Speaker 1: the set, but it didn't really end because then, of
Speaker 1: course we had Sex in the City the movie, which
Speaker 1: I do remember like going to see the midnight release
Speaker 1: of UM. I think the first movie is really good
Speaker 1: UM and a great translation of the series to that medium,
Speaker 1: but Sex in the City to Oh my God rotted.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think they're both really bad in very
Speaker 1: different ways. But you and I watched the second movie
Speaker 1: together and it had been a long time since i'd
Speaker 1: seen it, and I mean, for the versions, they must
Speaker 1: know that. Like we clicked it on, we were like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, I think we were like winding down for
Speaker 1: the evening. We're like, let's just watch the first fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes of this, and then we watched the whole thing.
Speaker 1: And it's not it's not a short movie. No, it's not.
Speaker 1: And and I will I will definitely I can say
Speaker 1: without a doubt if it's not the most problematic movie
Speaker 1: I've ever scene, it's like one of the most egregiously
Speaker 1: problematic movies I've ever seen, for reasons we don't need
Speaker 1: to get into, but are mostly around what um the
Speaker 1: writer's idea of like the Middle East is. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I do. I had forgotten about this. There is one
Speaker 1: scene in the movie that I really like that UM,
Speaker 1: I want to have stuck with me. And it's the
Speaker 1: scene where Charlotte and Miranda have a drink at their
Speaker 1: hotel and talk about like how hard it is leaving
Speaker 1: their kids at home. And it's the first time in
Speaker 1: maybe the entirety of the show, um, except for UM,
Speaker 1: some of the scenes around when Miranda was pregnant and
Speaker 1: there was the tension because Charlotte hadn't been able to
Speaker 1: conceive where Miranda and Charlotte acknowledge that there's this thing
Speaker 1: that that unites them, which is motherhood. That the two
Speaker 1: characters don't have a ton of like moments together in general. Yeah, UM,
Speaker 1: this thing that unites them, which is mother hood that
Speaker 1: the other two women don't share with them, don't want
Speaker 1: to share with them, and like really can't understand and
Speaker 1: it and I think it's a really nice scene in
Speaker 1: an otherwise terrible movie. I so, I I think, um,
Speaker 1: culturally it's terrible, but I would rewatch that movie unfortunately anytime,
Speaker 1: Oh to see Liza Minnelli sing single Ladies. And also
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, I mean we can. I mean we
Speaker 1: don't even need to get into the wedding, but I
Speaker 1: do think, you know what, one of the greatest cultural
Speaker 1: contributions of that year, Liza Minnelli covering single Ladies, I mean,
Speaker 1: one of Beyonce's best songs, most beloved songs, really what
Speaker 1: put Beyonce on the map. Yeah, definitely, definitely for the
Speaker 1: virgins that don't know we are being facetious, it is
Speaker 1: not Beyonce's best song. But like I I unfortunately really
Speaker 1: and again problematic. But my favorite scene in the movie,
Speaker 1: aside from the scene that you named, which I remember
Speaker 1: like watching it together and we had just been watching
Speaker 1: scene after scene after scene after scene of like the
Speaker 1: worst garbage, laugh out loud trash we had ever watched,
Speaker 1: and then that scene happened, and we both kind of
Speaker 1: turned to each other and we were like, oh, that
Speaker 1: was that was really nice, Like you know about this,
Speaker 1: like we recognize it immediately. But right after that, there's
Speaker 1: this scene where you know, they're kind of like rushing
Speaker 1: out to catch their like Emirates flight or whatever out
Speaker 1: of the out of the country, and um, they need
Speaker 1: to go back to the soup to like get Carrie's
Speaker 1: wallet or something. And as they're rushing through the soup,
Speaker 1: Samantha's like bag breaks open while she's like in heat.
Speaker 1: She's been off her like menopause meds, which I like
Speaker 1: as an ark for her character and all that stuff,
Speaker 1: and he literally she's readers out there literal heat and
Speaker 1: also and she's having a hot flash. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what they call it, right, I know that I'm
Speaker 1: being Yeah, um, when all the condoms spill out on
Speaker 1: the floor and they know, like all the people around
Speaker 1: them are like, oh my god, these women have sex.
Speaker 1: That's crazy. And she stands up and she holds the
Speaker 1: condoms in her hand. She's like, yes, condoms, condoms. Yes.
Speaker 1: It's like it's just like moments like that where it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: like the show can handle handle slapstick. Samantha especially does
Speaker 1: slapstick so well, so well, and Carrie does too sometimes.
Speaker 1: But I think, um, the main issue with the movies,
Speaker 1: and like I know you said they're bad, I don't
Speaker 1: think the first one is bad. I think the first
Speaker 1: one is a great movie, well setting aside of course
Speaker 1: the Jennifer Hudson stuff. Oh and also speaking of Jennifer Hudson,
Speaker 1: if anyone wants to see someone bring up the Uglyton
Speaker 1: Purse to Jennifer Hudson in person, I did that when
Speaker 1: I interviewed her at the Cats. What did she say
Speaker 1: about it? Um, she thought it was very funny that
Speaker 1: I thought it was super ugly, but she liked it.
Speaker 1: But you can you can go look on my Instagram
Speaker 1: into that interview. Um. I think the problem with the
Speaker 1: film is that they, like of course, as Sex in
Speaker 1: the City went on, it became less and less grounded
Speaker 1: in any sort of reality or like realistic version of
Speaker 1: New York City, and both Sex in the City the
Speaker 1: movie and Sex in the City to what they increasingly
Speaker 1: do is they completely detached and blast off from reality
Speaker 1: and Sex in the City to just like does not
Speaker 1: take place in our world? And what I am kind
Speaker 1: of seeing from all of the like trailers and promo
Speaker 1: we've seen from and just like that, which is the
Speaker 1: Sex in the City UM continuation reboot revival show that
Speaker 1: actually launches the same day as this podcast episode. It
Speaker 1: does look like it's attempting to bring those characters back
Speaker 1: to some kind of reality. You see. I guess we'll
Speaker 1: see how they do the in the writing. To me,
Speaker 1: that feels like it'll almost like ruin makes the show good.
Speaker 1: It's almost like what I enjoy about the show are
Speaker 1: its moments of a reality how it is so as
Speaker 1: you said, like off from this plane that we're on
Speaker 1: in terms of like human relationships. Um, but you know,
Speaker 1: I do you know it could happen. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: do think it's kind of like the only way it
Speaker 1: works and also like and also the only like justifiable
Speaker 1: reason to bring it back because we are, like, especially
Speaker 1: in the moment we're living in, like still in a
Speaker 1: global pandemic, is like we definitely don't want to see
Speaker 1: the same level of like fantastical extravagance that that like
Speaker 1: I think Sex in the City was known for, Like
Speaker 1: I want to see these characters be just a little
Speaker 1: bit more grounded in reality, And I think like since
Speaker 1: it was first teased, like do you remember this time
Speaker 1: last year, the first teaser for and just like that
Speaker 1: came out and was this kind of like grainy video
Speaker 1: on the subway, and not to me was like a
Speaker 1: signaling of Okay, this is taking place in a more
Speaker 1: realistic version of New York than we have ever seen,
Speaker 1: because none of these girls have ever taken never ever.
Speaker 1: And I think I think Carrie is on the subway
Speaker 1: at some point, and and just like that, I hope
Speaker 1: that it doesn't suffer from you know, something that I
Speaker 1: think is a reboot problem, wherein the show is way
Speaker 1: too obsessed with the idea of correcting what was wrong
Speaker 1: with the original to create a good story for the reboot.
Speaker 1: I think that happens with things like you know, the
Speaker 1: Will and Grace reboot and others like it. Um, I
Speaker 1: do as you're saying it, Like I have faith that
Speaker 1: like Sex and the City is one of these singular
Speaker 1: things that because it is actually all around such a
Speaker 1: good show and such good characters, that it does have
Speaker 1: the capacity to evolve and still be entertaining. I really
Speaker 1: hope that that's true. Yeah, what I wanted to do
Speaker 1: is apply the critique to the show in a way that,
Speaker 1: at least from the casting it looks like is actually
Speaker 1: it's actually doing without getting to as you said, caught
Speaker 1: up in like see we learned our lesson. We have
Speaker 1: sat Ramirez playing a podcaster, um, which I do feel
Speaker 1: like right now we're giving very much. You know, Carrie
Speaker 1: Bradshaw's podcast. Okay, so she does have a podcast in
Speaker 1: the region. I think so at least that's what it
Speaker 1: looks like. Either she's like a guest on someone's podcast
Speaker 1: or she has a podcast. And she also, weirdly was
Speaker 1: wearing the Heart of the Ocean necklace from Titan I
Speaker 1: never would have noticed that, but that is so Yeah,
Speaker 1: I saw your tweet about that. It's so true. The looks,
Speaker 1: I must say, like some of them have been good.
Speaker 1: They're not quite giving what there's us to give. But
Speaker 1: that is like because Patricia Field is not part of
Speaker 1: the reboot, and Patricia Field is what made Sex in
Speaker 1: the City the fashion jugger, not that it was. And
Speaker 1: of course I want to know what the tea is
Speaker 1: with Samantha because as we all know by now, Kim
Speaker 1: Cantrall refused to do the reboot because of tensions between
Speaker 1: her and Sarah Jessica Park that were like season's long tension,
Speaker 1: the whole I think, the whole show, which is like
Speaker 1: kind of devastating to know that they hated each other,
Speaker 1: because their chemistry is incredible and I think, and I
Speaker 1: think like more than any of Carrie's singular relationships with
Speaker 1: other women, the relationship between Carrie and Samantha is my
Speaker 1: favorite because Carry is the only person who Samantha lets
Speaker 1: herself be vulnerable with. Carrie gets that out of her,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's it's just sad to know that
Speaker 1: that was maybe all acting and that they hated each other.
Speaker 1: But obviously Kim Cantrell was asked over and over again
Speaker 1: about her involvement in the reboot, and she said something
Speaker 1: to the effect of, like, I don't ever want to
Speaker 1: be in a situation for even an hour when I'm
Speaker 1: not enjoying myself, which is gold, which which has been
Speaker 1: like you know, refracted through the internet to just the
Speaker 1: meme of I don't ever want to be in a
Speaker 1: situation which I you know, rings for me. Well, no
Speaker 1: matter our thoughts on the show, I think it must
Speaker 1: be said that, you know, the person that Carrie was
Speaker 1: destined to be with was Miranda. Yeah, it wasn't Miranda,
Speaker 1: it was No, it was actually John Sladdery's character. Like
Speaker 1: Carrie really could have enjoyed a life of love, happiness,
Speaker 1: being wiped up with an extremely successful man while getting
Speaker 1: piste on and wearing vintage Halston, Yes, wearing vintage Halston.
Speaker 1: Being a piss queen, the piss queen that we know
Speaker 1: should piss are go piss girl. Um. Now I think
Speaker 1: it's time to talk about the question that you know,
Speaker 1: like which Hogwarts house are you? Is like a touchstone
Speaker 1: of like I guess we'll say, like millennial BuzzFeed culture. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is actually kind of insufferable. I feel bad for
Speaker 1: the gen zs that listen to this podcast. But you
Speaker 1: know who who? Which of the Sex and the City
Speaker 1: girls are you? Well? Actually, which one do you think
Speaker 1: I am? Rose? Um? Okay, you can only pick one
Speaker 1: and on this sun Moon Rising ship. Okay, Um, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say you are a Miranda. That's correct, Yeah, that's correct. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say that you are I mean, okay, I
Speaker 1: actually would say that you're a Samantha. But I think
Speaker 1: you know that you're Carrie. That is rings true for me.
Speaker 1: It has been kind of the like not struggle, but
Speaker 1: like evolution of my life. Is when I first watched
Speaker 1: the show when I was a teenager, I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm a Carry. And then when I got older and
Speaker 1: like sex in the City became something I liked in
Speaker 1: um maybe a more ironic way, which you know, we
Speaker 1: we reject. And when you get to that irony period,
Speaker 1: you grow to hate carry, yes, and you go to
Speaker 1: hate carry, which is something I've held on to carry
Speaker 1: is not a good um. So like at that point
Speaker 1: in my life, I you know, it was like I'm
Speaker 1: a Samantha. Now I have swung back around and like
Speaker 1: I see the parts of Carry that I don't like,
Speaker 1: our things that I don't like in myself, and I
Speaker 1: do I think I'm a Carry, which in a way
Speaker 1: is like kind of the most boring answer, because like
Speaker 1: Carrie is kind of meant to be a person that
Speaker 1: you can like that you can graft yourself and your
Speaker 1: identity onto pretty easily. And when it comes to side
Speaker 1: by side comparison, I mean it starts with your shopping addiction.
Speaker 1: It starts with my shopping addiction and my propensity for
Speaker 1: wearing Bras to bed, you know, you're like I would
Speaker 1: never but you know, it's I think it's about like
Speaker 1: Carrie is incredibly selfish and also but like if I'm
Speaker 1: being more generous, like carry as a person who asks questions,
Speaker 1: who is very curious about the world, like unfortunately a
Speaker 1: lot of it dead ends with her own experience. But
Speaker 1: I think I have like that same level of curiosity.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, as I talked already about why
Speaker 1: I'm a lot like Miranda, I think that self involved
Speaker 1: nous is you know, maybe an attribute that all of
Speaker 1: the women have, and I see that in Miranda. For me,
Speaker 1: it's like the conflation of like self worth with your
Speaker 1: career and how that makes you like hold men at
Speaker 1: an arm's length. But I will also say that you
Speaker 1: and I do have a lot of Samantha esque qualities,
Speaker 1: even if we're not Samantha. And every time I take
Speaker 1: a quiz, do get Samantha even though I know I'm
Speaker 1: a Miranda. Well, you know, I think next week we'll
Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about if any of our
Speaker 1: hypotheses about and just like that came true, And next
Speaker 1: week we will be talking about a truly one of
Speaker 1: my favorite holiday movies Last Holiday starring Queen Latifa Canon
Speaker 1: and we will be having Ira Madison, the third Queen
Speaker 1: Latifa Expert, to come on in and give us a
Speaker 1: little holiday episode. So please, um, if you have never
Speaker 1: seen it, watch Last Holiday, pay for it if you must.
Speaker 1: You can call to confess a thing that you just
Speaker 1: are so obsessed with. You have to show your best
Speaker 1: friend what it is. You can call us at three
Speaker 1: to three pennants that is three to three seven three
Speaker 1: six to six to three. Also, please um tweet us
Speaker 1: your thoughts about this week's episode. I want to hear.
Speaker 1: Are you a Samantha or you a Charlotte? Are your Miranda?
Speaker 1: Are you a Carry? Are you a Stanford? Are you
Speaker 1: a funky spunk guy? Who you know? Who are you?
Speaker 1: I'm the funky spunk guy. I also will say we've
Speaker 1: been getting a lot of great reviews on Apple podcasts.
Speaker 1: Please keep leaving them. I'm Rose Damn You. You can
Speaker 1: find me online at Rose Damn You on Twitter, Instagram.
Speaker 1: I'm fran you can find me at Franz squish co
Speaker 1: wherever you want on social media and sub stack. You
Speaker 1: can subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere you listen to
Speaker 1: podcasts and please leave us a review. We really want
Speaker 1: to hear what you think. Like a Virgin is an
Speaker 1: I Heeart radio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter, who
Speaker 1: does identify as a Samantha, with support from Lindsay Hoffman,
Speaker 1: Julian Weller, Just Cranechitch and Nikki Etre. Until next week,
Speaker 1: See you later, Virgins Lulu, Dude, dude, dude, you really
Speaker 1: hit that last note. Thank you so much. On the
Speaker 1: nose