Speaker 1: Hey guys, I'm Jackie Goldschneiner, I'm Essler, and we are
Speaker 1: two Jersey Jays and we have pretty juicy so for
Speaker 1: you today.
Speaker 2: I think that it's like the episode, in my mind
Speaker 2: is like one that I would want to talk about
Speaker 2: or hear about. I want to listen to this episode
Speaker 2: because I think it's there's so much to say about it.
Speaker 2: We're talking about money.
Speaker 1: Yes, we're talking about money, and since we are in
Speaker 1: the Housewives world, we're going.
Speaker 2: To start there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I think that the Housewives have become synonymous
Speaker 1: with having a lot of money, but I don't think
Speaker 1: that that's actually so true.
Speaker 2: I think that part of the appeal of the Housewives,
Speaker 2: and as of viewer, I think I felt this way too,
Speaker 2: is watching women who you know, supposedly had it all
Speaker 2: a lot of that had to do with money, but
Speaker 2: also looks and you know, the perfect husbands and children
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, and then sort of watching their demise
Speaker 2: because I think we are so caught up in as
Speaker 2: a culture money and there's so much that affects us
Speaker 2: in terms of like our own self worth in terms
Speaker 2: of money. So I almost feel like the Housewives show
Speaker 2: that money doesn't buy happiness.
Speaker 1: Yes, but I originally thought that like all the housewives
Speaker 1: had a lot of money, and that is just absolutely
Speaker 1: not the case. And what I have found in recent
Speaker 1: years is that people who look like they have a
Speaker 1: ton of money a lot of times it's it's just
Speaker 1: a lot of spending of money that people don't necessarily have. Now, Listen,
Speaker 1: there are people on these shows that legit have a
Speaker 1: ton of money, and I have no I have no
Speaker 1: privy to anyone's bank accounts, so I'm just guessing. But
Speaker 1: if I had to guess, I would say that it's
Speaker 1: definitely like Lisa Vanderpom definitely rich, Kyle Rich right, Suntrack rich.
Speaker 2: Right, Candy, Yes, of course, yes. And then there are
Speaker 2: those of us who are not, you know, flying our
Speaker 2: own private jets and are I think comfortable with that
Speaker 2: and represent ourselves accurate? And I think there are those
Speaker 2: that cry to fake it and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, well for documented news stories about many people.
Speaker 3: And I'll tell you who.
Speaker 1: I just in my head, it's so crazy to me
Speaker 1: that they don't have much money. Was this whole thing
Speaker 1: with cry and Kim. Now I didn't watch Atlanta when
Speaker 1: she was on it. I actually there's a few housewild shows.
Speaker 3: I don't watch.
Speaker 1: Atlanta's one of them, so I don't really know the
Speaker 1: people on there, but I know that Kim was on
Speaker 1: Atlanta Housewives for what five seasons, and then she had
Speaker 1: her own show for I think eight seasons.
Speaker 2: He wasn't party for the party, yes to watch that.
Speaker 2: I watched a little bit of it, and I definitely
Speaker 2: watched when Kim was on it and she was involved
Speaker 2: with that older guy. They called him back a daddy,
Speaker 2: big daddy daddy or something. And I mean, that's an
Speaker 2: interesting study right there.
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, she had an NFL contract where I
Speaker 1: date him billions of dollars also, and I mean they're broke.
Speaker 1: She's selling her wigs on eBay, So how do you
Speaker 1: go from all that income?
Speaker 2: Isn't it interesting? It's the thing, potentially I don't know,
Speaker 2: that brought her so much money, was representing herself as
Speaker 2: a rich woman, right, And that's the thing that is
Speaker 2: part of what made her so interesting, watching her in
Speaker 2: the biggest state, watching her dripping in diamonds, and so
Speaker 2: to keep that up. I'm not their financial advisor, but
Speaker 2: I guess she put forth too much effort in terms
Speaker 2: of like showing and being showy, and then she didn't
Speaker 2: have anything to back it up, or it all went
Speaker 2: away because she was so busy showing off her wealth.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I think a lot of people think that being on
Speaker 4: the show itself is going to bring you the kind
Speaker 4: of money that you're presenting, which you don't really have, right,
Speaker 4: But that really doesn't happen.
Speaker 1: It's very rare. I think to make enough money on
Speaker 1: this show that you can catch up to what you're presenting.
Speaker 1: You get what I'm saying and why and.
Speaker 2: The bigger picture, right, like why does it matter so much?
Speaker 1: Why does it matter? Well, I think it used to
Speaker 1: matter a lot more than it does now. I think
Speaker 1: it used to be that house I was were synonymous
Speaker 1: with having a lot of money, maybe not like billion,
Speaker 1: like not sudden money, but like living in a really
Speaker 1: big house, driving your range Rover, you know, occasionally flying
Speaker 1: out a private jet.
Speaker 2: Now I think it's different. It is different now, It
Speaker 2: definitely has changed. Having said that, I also see a
Speaker 2: lot of the housewives representing themselves as down to earth relatable.
Speaker 2: I don't have as much money as you guys do,
Speaker 2: and the women that are doing that have still beautiful lives.
Speaker 2: They may not live in a states with yachts and
Speaker 2: private jets, but they live in beautiful homes. They have enough,
Speaker 2: they have enough to you know, dress themselves up. And
Speaker 2: yet there's this whole I feel like, even just recently
Speaker 2: with Salt Lake City, that whole piece of it that
Speaker 2: you know, Monica didn't like whatever was happening with the
Speaker 2: ring you saw, Yeah, yeah, right, melt it she was
Speaker 2: that rubbed her the wrong way and she had to
Speaker 2: buy a Louis bag or something so that she didn't
Speaker 2: feel inferior when they all went on trip. But this
Speaker 2: whole sort of and that people could relate to that, right,
Speaker 2: But Monica is still I don't know Monica. I don't
Speaker 2: know what she has in her bank, but she still lives.
Speaker 2: It looks to me like a really nice life. She
Speaker 2: has four kids, there's food on the table, she seems
Speaker 2: to take very good care of herself. She's driving around
Speaker 2: in a Range Rover. So you know that sort of
Speaker 2: feeling that maybe if I have less, that makes me
Speaker 2: more authentic and relatable. And I don't think that's true either.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think it's true either, But I will
Speaker 1: tell you I think that people love seeing a downfall.
Speaker 1: It's part of the whole I cancel culture. But like
Speaker 1: when Erin got sued, I have no I'm not taking
Speaker 1: a side on who's telling the truth in this one.
Speaker 1: But when Erin got sued Erin from New York by
Speaker 1: her landlord for unpaid rent and it was all over
Speaker 1: the news, I think people love that kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: that kind of ooh, maybe she's not who she says
Speaker 1: she is. Whenever there's a story about Durie in the news,
Speaker 1: whenever there's a story about Erika Jean in the news.
Speaker 2: Well that's because I think that it's natural for us. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: part of what makes a human human is sometimes feelings
Speaker 2: of jealousy, feelings of wanting more, not being content, comparing
Speaker 2: yourself to others. I think that is, you know something
Speaker 2: I try to fight against it, but it's also I
Speaker 2: do the same thing right, Like I can look at
Speaker 2: a woman who is so uberwealthy, like a door Rate
Speaker 2: or a Kyle Richards, and say to myself, you know, wow,
Speaker 2: you know I like my own jet, I like my
Speaker 2: own yacht. And the truth is I am blessed above
Speaker 2: and beyond. I have everything I need. My kids have
Speaker 2: food on the table. You know, God forbids someone get
Speaker 2: sick in my family, I'll have enough money to fly
Speaker 2: them to wherever the hospital, the best hospital is. That's
Speaker 2: what counts, right. Money doesn't buy happiness, But yet still
Speaker 2: we covet these things, and whether it's right or wrong,
Speaker 2: I think everyone has like a certain degree of that right,
Speaker 2: and it's it's hard to fight against it. But specifically
Speaker 2: with the Housewives, it's so showy. Everybody is trying so
Speaker 2: hard to show so much.
Speaker 1: Yes on our cast included, but we won't go into
Speaker 1: detail on that. So I think that also, you know,
Speaker 1: we live in towns where money is everywhere. People like
Speaker 1: to show off. I mean New Jersey. People like their
Speaker 1: big cars and their big lives, and they like to
Speaker 1: live large, and so it's hard to separate yourself from it.
Speaker 1: It's not just Housewives world. It's suburbs, it's in the cities,
Speaker 1: it's everywhere.
Speaker 2: I grew up in sort of a unique financial situation.
Speaker 2: My parents were divorced when I was like three, and
Speaker 2: I moved with my mom and my sister to Sugarland, Texas.
Speaker 2: My mother was a secretary now we would say assistant,
Speaker 2: and we just didn't have a lot. We lived in
Speaker 2: a very small house. I remember, you know, kids in
Speaker 2: junior high lived in Sugar Creek, and I would go
Speaker 2: through these gates and see these homes and I would just,
Speaker 2: you know, feel less than And my dad at the
Speaker 2: time in the eighties was very, very wealthy, so I
Speaker 2: would fly to see him and he was literally his
Speaker 2: apartment was across from the met ten ten fifth Avenue
Speaker 2: in the city, and then he had a an estate
Speaker 2: in Bedford and eventually he ended up living in Trump
Speaker 2: Tower for a while. And when I was about nineteen,
Speaker 2: we had been named Mitzvah, so I hadn't been bought Mitzvoot.
Speaker 2: It was myself and my sister and my half brother. Anyway,
Speaker 2: it was on the Queen Elizabeth. It was like on
Speaker 2: the front page of the Metropolitan Section and Ivan Boski
Speaker 2: like flew brivate jet onto the ship. It was over
Speaker 2: the top, right. And then my father didn't have money.
Speaker 2: But my point is it was always sort of that
Speaker 2: back and forth and that sort of I don't know,
Speaker 2: I used to have so much financial insecurity, Like you know,
Speaker 2: I'd wake up sometimes in my twenties and be afraid,
Speaker 2: like I have these nightmares about like being under the
Speaker 2: bridge with nowhere to live, and you know, being or
Speaker 2: being being homeless or just struggling, and I don't know,
Speaker 2: I am part of why. I think I'm so grateful
Speaker 2: that we have what we have now. And again we're
Speaker 2: not bazillionaires, but it's just the safety that comes with
Speaker 2: having money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a weird relationship with money. I've always
Speaker 1: had a weird relationship with money, and I think it
Speaker 1: also stems from my childhood. So when I first got
Speaker 1: on the show, I was really uncomfortable showing off my wealth.
Speaker 1: I didn't want the producers to know that I had money.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to seem like I was like regular
Speaker 1: suburban well off, right. I drove a minivan at the time.
Speaker 1: It wasn't even a new minivan, and it was like
Speaker 1: very stereotypical, like oldfish on the floor, shit everywhere, bird
Speaker 1: poop in the windows, and you know, my house is beautiful,
Speaker 1: but it's not mine no day and it's my house
Speaker 1: is beautiful, but it's not like you knowlous house at right.
Speaker 1: So I think that my second season, when I took
Speaker 1: the ladies to my Hampton's house, which is quite a
Speaker 1: beach house. They were like, wait what because everyone assumed
Speaker 1: that I was like the poor one on the cast,
Speaker 1: and they were like, does Jackie have money? I remember
Speaker 1: I was listening to another podcast and they said that
Speaker 1: they think that I was like the first house I
Speaker 1: was ever to pretend that I had less money than
Speaker 1: I actually, which was really funny. But I grew up
Speaker 1: with a really weird relationship with money because I grew
Speaker 1: up the first part of my childhood it was in
Speaker 1: Staten Island, New York, which was very very We were
Speaker 1: very middle class. We had like a small home and
Speaker 1: you know, like we just didn't have a ton of money,
Speaker 1: like me and my friends, like we would play in
Speaker 1: our garages. And then my parents their businesses really took
Speaker 1: off and they wanted to move out of Staten Island,
Speaker 1: so they bought a McMansion in New Jersey and it
Speaker 1: was one of the first homes on in the new
Speaker 1: development in this new area of the town, and we
Speaker 1: were like the only house on the block, and I
Speaker 1: was really isolated. My parents, who are wonderful people, but
Speaker 1: they dropped me off at this house and they were like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're going to work full time. And I had no friends,
Speaker 1: I had no rides to go anywhere, and I moved
Speaker 1: to this mcmahonsion and I was very isolated. I was
Speaker 1: very lonely. I had no friends. I would at a
Speaker 1: new school, and I money. Essentially, suddenly we were wealthy,
Speaker 1: and I was so miserable, whereas I was so happy
Speaker 1: in Staten Island, and I was so miserable as friends
Speaker 1: and laughing and yes as a kid everything, and I
Speaker 1: think I resented all the money. And then to pile
Speaker 1: on top of that, my parents continued to make a
Speaker 1: lot of money. And when I was in college, one
Speaker 1: day the IRS came in and raided my mother's business
Speaker 1: and shut everything down. And then I had to watch
Speaker 1: my parents go to trial for tax evasion and wonder
Speaker 1: how much jail time they were going to get, and
Speaker 1: watch them get sentenced, and it was horrific. So I
Speaker 1: think that I've felt like when I didn't have the money,
Speaker 1: I was so much happier. I was just happier. And
Speaker 1: then when I had all the money, nothing about it
Speaker 1: brought me happiness. So I was always very very scared.
Speaker 1: I want to tell you something really really interesting, So
Speaker 1: I never would spend money, right, and I had this
Speaker 1: thing where I would always hold onto money and I
Speaker 1: never wanted to spend it on anything. And so when
Speaker 1: I a few years ago. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: guys followed my story, my personal story, or read my
Speaker 1: book The Way to Beautiful, but I recovered from a
Speaker 1: twenty year really severe anorexia. I recovered about two and
Speaker 1: a half years ago. I chose to recover, and when
Speaker 1: I first went into therapy my therapist, I didn't want
Speaker 1: to do so many sessions because I didn't want to
Speaker 1: spend all that money on therapy. It was all part
Speaker 1: of me hanging on to all my money. So she
Speaker 1: said to me, you know, if you can't afford it,
Speaker 1: we can, you know, work out a payment plan. And
Speaker 1: I said, no, I can. I can afford it.
Speaker 2: I just don't want to.
Speaker 1: I just didn't want to spend the money. And she
Speaker 1: opened my eyes to the most interesting fucking thing. It's called,
Speaker 1: and it's a legit thing. It's called financial anorexia. And
Speaker 1: it's the same way that you think about food like
Speaker 1: and you're anorexic, or any kind of dieting like you.
Speaker 1: I was hoarding my calories so like I wouldn't eat
Speaker 1: all day and then at night I would have enough
Speaker 1: to make me not feel super hungry anymore. And I
Speaker 1: was always like saving calories and I wouldn't eat, and
Speaker 1: like I was just afraid to eat because I was
Speaker 1: afraid it would spiral. And I was the same way
Speaker 1: with money. I was afraid to let go of any
Speaker 1: of my money because I was so afraid that something
Speaker 1: bad would happen.
Speaker 2: And that's how. I don't know that he has financial
Speaker 2: anorex yet, but I think for a lot of people
Speaker 2: like my husband, like Jeff, he works so hard and
Speaker 2: he is successful, and yet I if it were up
Speaker 2: to him, we would spend nothing because and I don't
Speaker 2: think it's about I really sort of hate this part
Speaker 2: because it's I feel like Jews are always labeled when
Speaker 2: it comes to money, right, and Jeff Sessler's not cheap.
Speaker 2: He would spend everything on his kids in two seconds,
Speaker 2: but like the little things he gets concerned about, and
Speaker 2: I think that's about financial insecurity. It's you know, I
Speaker 2: think that he's for whatever reason, whatever background he comes from,
Speaker 2: he's always scared of running out right or like, what's
Speaker 2: going to happen if I don't have enough? Especially as
Speaker 2: the primary breadwinner. I think a lot of men, you know,
Speaker 2: identify also with how much money that they make. That's
Speaker 2: maybe for another day. Yeah, but I think a lot
Speaker 2: of people have fear when it comes to money. And
Speaker 2: then there are those, by the way, who I think,
Speaker 2: you know, have so much, there's so much excess, and
Speaker 2: feel good. The more they have, the better they feel
Speaker 2: about themselves. Right, I don't think you were justing that.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's true? Like there are people in
Speaker 1: the housewives world that definitely keep accumulating and accumulating. There
Speaker 1: are people on our cast that have fifteen cars lined
Speaker 1: up in front of their house.
Speaker 5: I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Does that could that possibly make someone happy?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 2: Wait, I didn't. That is not believe me. I don't.
Speaker 2: I think that everything that people say, right, it's so
Speaker 2: cliche that money doesn't buy happiness one hundred percent. I
Speaker 2: don't not think it buys happiness. I think that though
Speaker 2: people are sometimes their esteem is fed by things, yes,
Speaker 2: and it's never lasting. It can't last. Like when I
Speaker 2: moved into this house. We were bidding on this house
Speaker 2: and I walked into it and I thought, if we
Speaker 2: get this house for whatever reason, I just loved it.
Speaker 2: I still do. I will never have an unhappy day. Well,
Speaker 2: about three days into owning this house, something came up.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't even remember what it was, but
Speaker 2: I'm just saying it's not that's not realistic. Things of course,
Speaker 2: and we know this, right, things don't make us happy.
Speaker 2: But having said that, things, especially in today's day, and
Speaker 2: especially yes in the world of housewives, have become so important.
Speaker 2: I always say to myself when I'm watching Beverly Hills,
Speaker 2: there's like, like, the birken Bag is like the eighth housewife.
Speaker 2: I don't know how many housewives there are, right, it
Speaker 2: should happen, right, It's like, well, it's like a friend
Speaker 2: of a housewife. It it shouldn't hold a diamond, but
Speaker 2: it has like its own importance.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: I may argue that the friends of the housewives are
Speaker 1: the most important.
Speaker 2: Part, fair enough, but like I'd feel like the birken
Speaker 2: Bag is real, like the eighth Beverly Hills housewife, and
Speaker 2: like you know who has one? You know, like they'll
Speaker 2: they'll do a shot of one, then they'll put one
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars underneath. Or Garcel got one, but she
Speaker 2: got maybe a used one and we know how much
Speaker 2: of that cost. And it's all about, you know, when
Speaker 2: the new ones come in, and it's an interesting thing, right,
Speaker 2: Like Burke and bag can cost one hundred thousand dollars?
Speaker 2: Is that okay? I don't know. You could feed a
Speaker 2: small country with that. But guess what, I have excess.
Speaker 2: There's somebody else who I'm I listened to on TikTok
Speaker 2: Who TikTok who talks about like the Kardashians and how
Speaker 2: bad it is for girls today to watch their lives
Speaker 2: because they live with so much excess and it's so obnoxious.
Speaker 2: This it's so bad. They're such a bad example. But
Speaker 2: yet that person has so much, there's so much excess
Speaker 2: in her own life, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're talking about you guys remain.
Speaker 2: Nameless, but I like to say her name. No, I
Speaker 2: don't say anyone's name. I really don't. It's not and
Speaker 2: you guys know what I'm talking about. You don't have
Speaker 2: to name people. But the point is that, like you know,
Speaker 2: some when is excess okay and when is it not.
Speaker 1: I don't like to be okay with the ship we
Speaker 1: see on social media because nobody has to live their
Speaker 1: lives for our approval, so we all have to be
Speaker 1: okay with it. I just, you know, I think that
Speaker 1: there's a lot of smoke and mirrors. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of people who are presenting a life that they don't
Speaker 1: really live.
Speaker 2: I think that some of my happiest friends, and who knows,
Speaker 2: I don't know how to measure that. But like some
Speaker 2: of my friends that seem at least to me so
Speaker 2: content are the ones who maybe could live larger, but
Speaker 2: they live smaller lives by choice, right, Like they don't
Speaker 2: have anything to prove, and they they have other whatever
Speaker 2: it is that brings them happiness. You know, it's not
Speaker 2: about their money, and that's what I strive for. I
Speaker 2: get caught up in also, this world of trying to
Speaker 2: prove that yeah you know, I'm glamorous too, Yeah, and
Speaker 2: it doesn't work.
Speaker 1: It's I mean, my town's a tough town. How is
Speaker 1: your town like my town? The people are great, but
Speaker 1: they live very large. Like in the summer when everyone's
Speaker 1: kids go off to sleep boy camp, they are on
Speaker 1: yachts in Capri. They are at their like a massive
Speaker 1: Southampton homes. They are just living in my town.
Speaker 2: But my friends, now, my friend camp. We were in
Speaker 2: my backyard getting wasted.
Speaker 1: Yeah later Yeah, so you know what else? Also, like
Speaker 1: I grew up, this is I guess tied to like finances.
Speaker 1: I grew up my dad gambled a lot, So every
Speaker 1: single weekend we'd be at a casino. So I lived
Speaker 1: at casinos, and very curiously, my dad taught me how
Speaker 1: to gamble, Like he taught me every single detail about
Speaker 1: craps when I was probably like twelve years old, so
Speaker 1: I knew craps inside and album by the time I
Speaker 1: was eighteen. We used to go to the Islands and
Speaker 1: I would be gambling. I was gambling when I was
Speaker 1: like fifteen. I had fake ID and so I think
Speaker 1: that I developed this relationship with casinos. You saw me
Speaker 1: even during BRAVOCM Like, I do not want to gamble
Speaker 1: because there was so much, like always tension between my
Speaker 1: parents when my dad would lose, and it's so funny
Speaker 1: he would bet on sports also, And when I was
Speaker 1: a kid my dad. I always thought if there was
Speaker 1: a broom outside my parents' room, it meant they were
Speaker 1: getting along, and I never understood what it meant. But
Speaker 1: my dad would put a broom outside their bedroom when
Speaker 1: he swept his games, and I only knew that it
Speaker 1: meant that my parents were getting along. Wow, yeah, they
Speaker 1: were like like the money took over everything. It was crazy.
Speaker 2: I love gambling. I love playing and not like blackjack,
Speaker 2: I'm not. I can't keep up with that shit. But
Speaker 2: like wheel a fortune, like sitting there because there's this
Speaker 2: feeling right that, like this quarter it changed my life,
Speaker 2: and I mean, why do I want to change my
Speaker 2: life again? I have healthy children and I have food
Speaker 2: on the table, but it's that sort of feeling. And then,
Speaker 2: of course when I always do lose my money, and
Speaker 2: then it's like the depression of that, right, But it's
Speaker 2: like such a high to like, yeah, put the quarter
Speaker 2: in that little slot and think what I write all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, now like what if, yes, be.
Speaker 1: Rich, I'm going to be rich.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: We have a very interesting guest today.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm so excited to talk to this person. Need
Speaker 2: too so.
Speaker 1: Her name is Nadine Macaluso.
Speaker 2: And you all may know her as the Duchess from
Speaker 2: a movie called The Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah.
Speaker 1: She was married to Jordan Felferd, who was the infamous
Speaker 1: stockbroker who was immortalized in the Wolf of Wall Streets,
Speaker 1: and Nadine met and married him and suddenly he was
Speaker 1: thrust into this like unbelievably wealthy life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I love that movie. So, uh, I
Speaker 2: guess she met him at least in the movie on
Speaker 2: a yacht and then they bought this state and he
Speaker 2: bought her yacht. It was called the Duchess and it
Speaker 2: was like so glamorous, and then the movie is about
Speaker 2: the downfall.
Speaker 1: So let's talk to her. Who played her in the movie,
Speaker 1: the one that just played Barbie mart So gorgeous.
Speaker 2: I mean, just like Nadine. Actually, yeah, she's gorgeous, stunning.
Speaker 1: And she has a new book out, so we'll hear
Speaker 1: about everything. So hang on, we're gonna get Nadine on.
Speaker 2: Hi.
Speaker 1: God, it's Nadine. It's so nice to meet you.
Speaker 3: So nice to meet too, my favorite new Jersey Housewives.
Speaker 2: Oh thank you for saying that. While Nadine, we are
Speaker 2: so excited to have you on this show. And uh,
Speaker 2: first and foremost, we know that you have a new
Speaker 2: book that's out and we've been doing our research and
Speaker 2: it looks I have not read it yet, but it
Speaker 2: looks amazing.
Speaker 3: It's very exciting.
Speaker 7: I'm actually in Los Angeles right now, so part in
Speaker 7: my background because I had my book launch party last round.
Speaker 3: So congratulations, so called run like hell, what is it
Speaker 3: about here?
Speaker 2: It goes ooh pretty about trauma bonds.
Speaker 1: It's all about dysfunctional relations that what is trauma bonds.
Speaker 7: Trauma bonds is a dysfunctional relationship between two people who
Speaker 7: are emotionally connected. And so one of the people is
Speaker 7: usually the abuse or a perpetrator or a gas slider,
Speaker 7: and then the other one is victim to that and
Speaker 7: doesn't know that they're in it and things, they're just
Speaker 7: madly in love.
Speaker 2: Basically sort of relationship also with like I'm malignant narcissist
Speaker 2: exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Yeah, So I lived to that myself.
Speaker 2: I'm guessing you're talking about Georgie Belfort. It's just a guess, Yeah,
Speaker 2: just a guess. Yeah.
Speaker 7: Yeah, So I looked through that myself. And you know,
Speaker 7: at thirty nine, I went back to school to become
Speaker 7: married doctor, right sarahs got my PhD. And I never
Speaker 7: thought I would go into that sort of expertise around
Speaker 7: that subject. But I saw so many bright, smart, beautiful
Speaker 7: women coming into my office and I was like we
Speaker 7: have a problem, and so I just went to research
Speaker 7: and wrote the book.
Speaker 2: Do you think so are? We're talking right now about money?
Speaker 2: Which is reely relevant and one of the reasons that
Speaker 2: we wanted to have you on because clearly you lived
Speaker 2: with crazy amounts of money. I don't know what happened
Speaker 2: after you and Jordan separated, but the women that come
Speaker 2: to you and experience that kind of trauma, Bonnie, do
Speaker 2: you think that what draws them in a lot of
Speaker 2: times and what maybe the men us is the money
Speaker 2: in terms of like, yeah, so yeah, and I guess
Speaker 2: that happened to you. Yeah, tells me all about experience.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so you know, I mean I was twenty two
Speaker 7: years old, I was modeling in the city, and my
Speaker 7: ex husband was twenty eight and uberly successful, right, a
Speaker 7: self made guy. So I really respected that. And I
Speaker 7: grew poor in Brooklyn with a single mom, and so
Speaker 7: you know, I wanted to have the nicer things in life.
Speaker 7: And also money represents power, right, and so it just does,
Speaker 7: especially in our society. And so we did fall madly
Speaker 7: in love, for sure, I mean, and yet of course
Speaker 7: the money was alluring.
Speaker 2: So we were discussing, you know, having all of that
Speaker 2: money and I've never had that kind of.
Speaker 1: Well any kind of money did you have? Like, what
Speaker 1: what did you guys do?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 7: So, I mean so when I first met him, you know,
Speaker 7: this is how crazy he was. Like he would send
Speaker 7: his driver to my house with a Bulgari watch in
Speaker 7: fifteen thousand dollars in cash when you were first dating.
Speaker 3: Yeah, twenty to cash. Yeah, you have to think just cash,
Speaker 3: just for the fuck of it. I couldn't even spend it.
Speaker 7: I'd be running around shopping buying my mother like h stereo,
Speaker 7: you know back then.
Speaker 1: And stereo, find mom Stereo.
Speaker 2: It was like that.
Speaker 1: Movie Brewsters Millions. Do you remember that where he had
Speaker 1: to spend all the money?
Speaker 3: Yes, right, So I didn't even know or you know,
Speaker 3: he would.
Speaker 7: He was so over the top with the love bombing,
Speaker 7: Like that's a big part of the love bombing is
Speaker 7: just spending and spending and you know, getting me crazy jewelry,
Speaker 7: taking me to Cardier for a watch, and just just
Speaker 7: the money just seemed endless.
Speaker 2: And isn't do you think that that was? I know
Speaker 2: you you've said you guys were madly in love, but
Speaker 2: experiencing that from where you had come from and all
Speaker 2: of a sudden to be you know, put to have
Speaker 2: this glamorous world surrounding you.
Speaker 3: It was it must have.
Speaker 7: Yeah, And that's one of the reasons why I put
Speaker 7: myself in therapy right away at twenty two twenty three,
Speaker 7: because I was like, I don't know how to manage
Speaker 7: a staff, you know, I mean I had Then we
Speaker 7: moved to Long Island and at twenty four I think
Speaker 7: I lived in a ten thousand square foot house. Had
Speaker 7: to learn how to decorate it, right, So I went
Speaker 7: to interior design school because I'm always trying to learn,
Speaker 7: and you know, I didn't know how to deal really
Speaker 7: with any of it. So so that's why I went
Speaker 7: to school and learned. I went to like wine class,
Speaker 7: interior design school, I went to therapy.
Speaker 2: Do you have that imposter syndrome?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I remember like going on vacation sometimes, even
Speaker 2: when I was younger, places like I don't know, Saint Arts,
Speaker 2: and I would look around and see these all of
Speaker 2: these beautiful people in their white linen, and you know,
Speaker 2: they would have all the yachts and I was there,
Speaker 2: I was looking at the same ocean, I was eating
Speaker 2: the same food. But I would feel like this is
Speaker 2: realy not me, This is not I.
Speaker 7: Just feeling super insecure, right, not experienced that before, and
Speaker 7: me being a type a personality, you know, wanting to
Speaker 7: do it.
Speaker 3: Right whatever that meant, right, you know.
Speaker 7: And then of course, you know, he put it over
Speaker 7: the edge when he bought one hundred and eighty foot yacht.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, so you were you were vacationing
Speaker 1: on yachts, You lived in a in a massive mansion,
Speaker 1: you had tons of jewelry.
Speaker 2: Were you happy?
Speaker 1: Was he good to you?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing about a trauma bond.
Speaker 7: Is there something called intermittent abuse or intimate and reinforcement,
Speaker 7: meaning that you have these extreme experiences of love and
Speaker 7: love bombing and gifts and adoration, but then you also
Speaker 7: have extreme experiences of abuse and cruelty and control.
Speaker 3: So it's the two. It's the too.
Speaker 7: It's the extremity of those two experiences that actually causes
Speaker 7: the bond.
Speaker 1: And did you feel like you had to stay married
Speaker 1: to him so that you can this lifestyle. Were you
Speaker 1: terrorized by the thought of going back to not having money.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 7: And also I loved him and we had children right away,
Speaker 7: and so I really wanted to make it work. But yeah,
Speaker 7: I mean that that was a big piece of it
Speaker 7: for sure. For sure, and the fear of can I
Speaker 7: make it on my own?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Did you feel when you were surrounded by so much?
Speaker 2: Because this is sort of what we've been talking about today,
Speaker 2: But did you feel happier? Did you feel No? No, well,
Speaker 2: that's right, we'll talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think that money makes you happier.
Speaker 7: I think that, you know, coming from not having money
Speaker 7: and then going into money, I think we've been fed
Speaker 7: this American dream or this American myth that money is
Speaker 7: going to make you happier. Now, yes, does it allow
Speaker 7: us certain freedoms and does it give us certain comforts
Speaker 7: for sure?
Speaker 3: And access any things?
Speaker 7: So I would never deny that, But I don't think
Speaker 7: I think happiness is an inside job as a therapist especially,
Speaker 7: and I don't think it made me happier. I think
Speaker 7: actually what it did is it became a trap.
Speaker 2: Right. I think that's so interesting. When you and Jordan
Speaker 2: broke up, were you still wealthy? Did you? Or or
Speaker 2: your whole lifestyle change?
Speaker 3: I walked, I walked away with nothing.
Speaker 1: What happened? So he got he got. You know, I
Speaker 1: saw the movie a very long time ago, so I
Speaker 1: don't really remember. But he got, he got arrested, he
Speaker 1: went to jail, he got arrested, he got he went
Speaker 1: to jail. But you didn't file for divorce for.
Speaker 7: A little while after that, right, No, So what happened
Speaker 7: was that he got arrested for eleven counts of money laundering, and.
Speaker 1: You were completely blindsided.
Speaker 3: Completely blindsided. And then like that week, I filed for divorce.
Speaker 7: I told him we get divorced because he had an
Speaker 7: ankle bracelet on, and I knew I was safe because
Speaker 7: he was very scary person. So I knew, like, no,
Speaker 7: he's the government's problem, and so the government had a skill.
Speaker 7: I gave a ten million dollars of all of our
Speaker 7: homes and everything we owned for his bail. I drove
Speaker 7: a million dollars worth of jewelry to the courthouse and
Speaker 7: said take it all because I didn't want anything, because
Speaker 7: it was all blood money.
Speaker 2: How I think that is, first of all, so admirable.
Speaker 2: I think that, you know, we can talk about a
Speaker 2: lot of examples of women that would not want to
Speaker 2: drive their jewelry to the courthouse, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you watched The Housewives there, right, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: right about Beverly Hillsman.
Speaker 3: Yes, but that actually gets me very angry.
Speaker 1: But the Erika Jane Earings situation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because I have a direct experience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But the blessing that you had enough wherewithal to
Speaker 2: know that that stuff wasn't treating you happiness, right, I
Speaker 2: mean I think that that's how how blessed are you?
Speaker 2: And I'm curious as to when you did get rid
Speaker 2: of all of that, and you couldn't have been It
Speaker 2: could have been a hard time. You were divorcing your
Speaker 2: husband and your whole life was changing, But how how
Speaker 2: much of you was affected by the fact that you
Speaker 2: were no longer a millionaire, a billionaire whatever.
Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, just like everything, it was a paradox,
Speaker 7: you know, I find that in life as I get older.
Speaker 7: I was it felt freeing to give it up because
Speaker 7: it was such a trap, and then it it actually
Speaker 7: began to mean something terrible to me.
Speaker 5: Jackie, you were just yeah, I had this say, very
Speaker 5: not to your degree, but I grew up, like the
Speaker 5: first half of my childhood, very middle class, and then
Speaker 5: my parents made a lot of money and those were
Speaker 5: the worst years They were the worst years because I was.
Speaker 1: Lonely, I was isolated. My parents were fighting over the money.
Speaker 1: Then they ended up, you know, getting shut down by
Speaker 1: the irs and they went to they had their own issues.
Speaker 3: So you had your own trauma around that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So after you got divorced, did you have the
Speaker 1: option of fighting for money or was there nothing left?
Speaker 7: I you know, I know many people that were in
Speaker 7: that same case that did go and fight for money.
Speaker 3: I didn't.
Speaker 7: I didn't want that to be my plight in life.
Speaker 7: I was thirty one, two little kids, and I had
Speaker 7: a maternity company at the time, so I had my
Speaker 7: own little business that I was kind of relying on,
Speaker 7: and it just yeah, no, I was happy to give
Speaker 7: it up.
Speaker 2: And wow, I'm falling in love as we as we know,
Speaker 2: I really am. Forget about that you're gorgeous, but also.
Speaker 3: Which is that great?
Speaker 2: I know what? But anyway, also just hearing this kind
Speaker 2: of knowledge and this kind of uh, I don't know, fortitude,
Speaker 2: and I love that hearing that with women. And I
Speaker 2: love that you were, even back then when you were
Speaker 2: so young, not as swayed by you know, the money.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 1: So it's like going from how quickly did you go
Speaker 1: from everything to You didn't go to nothing, right, but
Speaker 1: you went to it like a very.
Speaker 3: I went to very low. Yeah.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I went to like where I was really worrying
Speaker 7: about money and how I was going to make money.
Speaker 3: And I did, oh wow, And then.
Speaker 1: What was that? Like? What was that? Like?
Speaker 3: That's super scary.
Speaker 7: It was super scary because you know when you're when
Speaker 7: I was that wealthy.
Speaker 3: Also, I was supporting my whole family.
Speaker 7: That's like another one of those traps that you get into.
Speaker 3: And so it wasn't even just.
Speaker 1: Wait, tell us about that because they asked you to
Speaker 1: or you felt like that's what you should do.
Speaker 7: I think it was a bit of a combination of both.
Speaker 7: And so I so that was like another piece of
Speaker 7: it too, Like it was a lot. It wasn't just
Speaker 7: giving up for me. It was like, Okay, now I'm
Speaker 7: not taking care of my parents anymore. And so and
Speaker 7: then I had two little kids, so then I was like, okay,
Speaker 7: I can't take care of my parents. I got to
Speaker 7: worry about my two little kids because they're three and five.
Speaker 7: And so for about a year, I, like I said,
Speaker 7: I was I had a maternity store in Roslyn, New York,
Speaker 7: and I had a catalog and a website, so I
Speaker 7: was working at that and then, as fate would have it,
Speaker 7: I fell in love on a blind date with a
Speaker 7: guy like a year and a half later who lives
Speaker 7: in California.
Speaker 3: And so then I picked my kids up and I.
Speaker 7: Moved to LA to just have let us all have
Speaker 7: a fresh start, because I just didn't want them to
Speaker 7: live with the legacy. Now, little did I know my
Speaker 7: ex was going to write a book and make a movie, right, all.
Speaker 1: Right, so tell us about that. So he was in
Speaker 1: jail for how long? Because I know that there are
Speaker 1: laws around, like moving your kids across the country when
Speaker 1: the father is in one place.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know.
Speaker 7: But luckily what happens is when your ex is a criminal.
Speaker 2: The judge a little more leeway. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 7: The judge was like, listen, your homes are getting taken
Speaker 7: from you, your right, your husband's a felon, Like, you
Speaker 7: can move. Actually just saw the new water in five minutes,
Speaker 7: and so I was about to move.
Speaker 2: But now in this day and age, and I know,
Speaker 2: obviously you're a doctor and you take care of yourself,
Speaker 2: and you're also married, I don't know anything about you husband,
Speaker 2: How attached are you now the things to money, to wealth?
Speaker 7: Well, you know, listen, I still like my nice things.
Speaker 7: I won't say, I won't deny that, but as a
Speaker 7: fifty six year old woman, I'm not that attached to it.
Speaker 7: I'm much more attached to wisdom and knowledge and having
Speaker 7: a moral compass and values and health. Again, that meat
Speaker 7: that I don't appreciate money now, But you have to remember,
Speaker 7: like when I grew up.
Speaker 3: Maybe I'm a little older than you guys.
Speaker 2: You know, it was pretty five.
Speaker 7: Okay, so it was pretty woman, right, it was greed
Speaker 7: is good. I mean, we were fed these.
Speaker 3: Messages about us.
Speaker 7: Right, we are got an older and wiser to know
Speaker 7: about them. And I'm married for twenty four years now.
Speaker 7: My husband and I he had three children, I had two.
Speaker 7: We blended a family, and we had a modern day
Speaker 7: Brady bunch. And so I picked up and moved to
Speaker 7: La to start over.
Speaker 1: Right, I have a whole bunch of questions. Go ahead,
Speaker 1: what was your.
Speaker 2: We're just all over the place because we have so
Speaker 2: much to ask you.
Speaker 1: Okay, So from you, first question before we get into
Speaker 1: anything else, is do you have any contact with Jordan today?
Speaker 1: How are the kids with him?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I do.
Speaker 7: I do have contact with him. My children are thirty
Speaker 7: and twenty eight. My daughter's a therapist, and you know,
Speaker 7: she just got married, she had a baby. So Jordan
Speaker 7: and I ironically actually got along pretty well afterwards. Oh,
Speaker 7: you wrote this book, you know, he Listen, my book
Speaker 7: isn't about him, but he certainly is the inspiration for it.
Speaker 3: And we've had our.
Speaker 7: Struggles a little bit with you know, me coming a
Speaker 7: lot on social media and telling my story.
Speaker 3: But you know, like I.
Speaker 7: Said to him, you hed a book, you made a movie.
Speaker 7: I also get to tell my narrative.
Speaker 1: So I have a question. So, for a very brief
Speaker 1: period of time in my twenties, I was a divorce
Speaker 1: lawyer and one of the things that really I was
Speaker 1: at a very high end Park Avenue divorce firm, and
Speaker 1: I would have a lot of we were very female heavy,
Speaker 1: so a lot of wives coming in and it would
Speaker 1: break my heart because you would have these women whose
Speaker 1: husbands were going on their third or fourth marriage divorcing
Speaker 1: them as like their second or third wife, and they
Speaker 1: were just lost. They didn't know what to do with
Speaker 1: themselves now, and they were all kind of young and beautiful,
Speaker 1: but they gave up. They stopped working because they thought
Speaker 1: this was forever and now they had no career and
Speaker 1: they had kids, and now they had no money anymore,
Speaker 1: and they didn't and you know, like the partners would
Speaker 1: be like, you should look at, you know, getting a
Speaker 1: new job and getting your resume in order, and they
Speaker 1: were like resume, Like, I haven't worked in ten years
Speaker 1: and I have little kids. So what's your advice to
Speaker 1: any woman? I mean, because I know at my age
Speaker 1: I see some of my friends' marriages drop in like flies,
Speaker 1: So like, what's your advice to a woman who gives
Speaker 1: up her career to basically marry and raise kids and
Speaker 1: stay home and then suddenly they don't want to be broke?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean that is so common, and thank you
Speaker 7: for bringing that up. Well, first of all, in a
Speaker 7: trauma bond, the number one thing that happens is you
Speaker 7: lose yourself. That is the number one symptom that happens.
Speaker 7: And so that comes along with a career, even hobbies,
Speaker 7: even like what do you authentically want to do? So
Speaker 7: what I always say, and you're facing your biggest fear.
Speaker 7: For a lot of them, a lot of them will
Speaker 7: say that's my cancer innatine to me when I work
Speaker 7: with them about it, And the only thing you can
Speaker 7: do is to you've always been so focused on this
Speaker 7: other person, is turn the mirror back on you, get
Speaker 7: really curious about you and really finds out authentically what
Speaker 7: you want to do. I mean, I went back to
Speaker 7: school at thirty nine to become a therapist, So it
Speaker 7: is never too late to restart your life. That doesn't
Speaker 7: mean it's not scary, and that doesn't mean that it's
Speaker 7: not hard, but you certainly.
Speaker 3: Can do it.
Speaker 2: Dean, Uh, here's a question. Do you watch the Housewives?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm obsessed. Really, I watch every single
Speaker 3: one I do, deep dead out really Oh yeah, really,
Speaker 3: it's my good pleasure. I love it.
Speaker 1: You feeling about the trend of like some new housewives
Speaker 1: coming in with like who are not wealthy, like the
Speaker 1: Monica on Salt Lake City, or like even some recent
Speaker 1: New Jersey housewives, or like some I think, like Gina
Speaker 1: on the OC who I have? But like, how do
Speaker 1: you feel about that? Do you think that the Housewives
Speaker 1: should be this fairy tale about money or should it
Speaker 1: might like have on.
Speaker 7: Just like everything in life, it's good to have socioeconomic
Speaker 7: diversity because women can relate to different types of women.
Speaker 2: Well, I want to ask you how you think, and
Speaker 2: this is obviously there are a lot of housewives, but
Speaker 2: how do you think watching all of the different franchises
Speaker 2: these how do you think money affects the women? Some
Speaker 2: of them have more, some of them have less. Do
Speaker 2: you feel like there is so much buying for attention
Speaker 2: and I have this and I have that and every
Speaker 2: you know, it's a The house is a microcosm of
Speaker 2: the of I feel like, you know the world we
Speaker 2: live in. But what do you think is really driving
Speaker 2: these women when it comes to money?
Speaker 7: You mean, like their desire to be on the show
Speaker 7: or and like become famab what do you think.
Speaker 1: Is behind this? Like showing off things that you very
Speaker 1: often don't have, oh yeah, or even that you.
Speaker 2: Do have the showing off period, like watching it do that?
Speaker 7: I mean I never understood that really, but I get
Speaker 7: you know, I mean, listen, I can only think that
Speaker 7: a lot of people place their personal value on the
Speaker 7: things that they have. So if there were in a
Speaker 7: Gucci belt, that means they're of value, right, true?
Speaker 3: Because everybody's worth love just for being born.
Speaker 2: I discuss that in therapy all the time, and not
Speaker 2: just when it comes to money, right, when it comes
Speaker 2: to fame. I think a lot of housewives feel like
Speaker 2: they are when they are at the top of their game.
Speaker 2: They're always afraid of losing it, and that causes misery.
Speaker 2: And then if they're at the bottom of their game
Speaker 2: and they've been demoted or you know, even help put
Speaker 2: on pause, is that affects them. And the truth is,
Speaker 2: of course that we're enough when we are at the
Speaker 2: top of our game and we are on it and
Speaker 2: we are the most popular housewife, or when we are
Speaker 2: you know, the one that's been recently fired, none of
Speaker 2: it really matters, right. It's living in dignity and living
Speaker 2: in a place where you know you're enough.
Speaker 3: And you can't you know this what I work with
Speaker 3: all my patients on. You can't get your sense of
Speaker 3: worth totally from external validation.
Speaker 2: Right, And I think so much of that happens on
Speaker 2: the housewife.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean it's a hard job to be a housewife.
Speaker 7: My hat's off to you, guys. I mean I couldnot
Speaker 7: do that. It says, yeah, well, I'll tell you.
Speaker 1: I have these moments of real clarity especially in the
Speaker 1: past few months where ever since everything that happened in Israel,
Speaker 1: and I'm Israel, my mother's from Israel, so I will
Speaker 1: have these moments where I'm like and nothing matters to
Speaker 1: me except being with my children right now, Like you
Speaker 1: could take everything from me. The fact that I can
Speaker 1: sit next to my children while there are you know,
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty plus people still being held hostage,
Speaker 1: is like, nothing else matters.
Speaker 2: Get perspective, I think. Unfortunately, sometimes also when bad things happen, right,
Speaker 2: like God forbid, someone gets sick, the only thing I saved.
Speaker 2: Michael Strahan say that, yeah, his daughter has brain cancer,
Speaker 2: and he said everything stopped. Of course, everything stopped when
Speaker 2: somebody you love gets sick. But I guess that comes
Speaker 2: with perspective, right, So all of this stuff at the.
Speaker 1: End of the day doesn't matter, means very little.
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter.
Speaker 7: And that's why I became a therapist because therapy saved
Speaker 7: my life. And what I love about therapy is you
Speaker 7: can't really get perspective unless you're reflective, right, if you
Speaker 7: don't pause and think about, like, really, what is important,
Speaker 7: what is making me happy?
Speaker 3: And taking that time to do that is what gives
Speaker 3: us perspective and.
Speaker 2: It's the only thing, right, like all this other stuff, right,
Speaker 2: and all this other these feelings of grandiosity that I
Speaker 2: think we fallen intimto as people that have been on TV.
Speaker 2: It always fads and you're always left with you know
Speaker 2: you and being happy with who you are outside of money.
Speaker 2: That's a side of any kind of theme.
Speaker 1: So how are you now? Are you comfortable again?
Speaker 6: Are you Do you ever wish that you could go
Speaker 6: back to some of that grand lifestyle or are you
Speaker 6: completely content?
Speaker 3: I'm content? I mean, so would it be fun to
Speaker 3: go on a yacht maybe for a weekends.
Speaker 7: Sure, But and you know I my daughters escaped birth
Speaker 7: and we have a six month congratulation. Yeah, and we
Speaker 7: just spent like a quiet, simple Christmas in Boca with
Speaker 7: family and it's calm and there's no drama. And you
Speaker 7: know I worked hard to have that life. Yeah, that
Speaker 7: emotional richness, right, that emotional intelligence.
Speaker 2: And all of that. I know I'm repeating myself, but
Speaker 2: all of that stuff that you had and it didn't
Speaker 2: fill you up, And like right, it's just I wish
Speaker 2: that you know, everybody, we could all agree that all
Speaker 2: this stuff is so unnecessary, but I used to work
Speaker 2: on my own desire.
Speaker 6: Can I ask you another question, just you your thoughts
Speaker 6: on this. I read an article in the New York
Speaker 6: Post last week about this new trend of the stay
Speaker 6: at home girlfriend.
Speaker 3: Have you heard about this?
Speaker 2: No? Please?
Speaker 6: It's about women choosing to slow down.
Speaker 3: There.
Speaker 6: What was the exact words they used was they're choosing
Speaker 6: a softer life than the go getter, girl boss life.
Speaker 6: It's like they're they're getting rid of the girl boss
Speaker 6: and they just.
Speaker 8: Want to go stay home, take care of their boyfriend,
Speaker 8: and take care of themselves so they could be their
Speaker 8: best self for their boyfriend.
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, they are not.
Speaker 2: They don't.
Speaker 6: There's no emphasis on marriage, so there's there's no promise
Speaker 6: of financial security for you. Treating your career and your
Speaker 6: you know, your future for the comfort of this person.
Speaker 3: What do you think of that? Well, I mean the
Speaker 3: purse of who you are. So yeah, I mean.
Speaker 6: Good.
Speaker 3: They want to slow down and not.
Speaker 6: Buy into the whole girl bloss thing, which I can
Speaker 6: see that guns committed to that.
Speaker 7: I can stand that wanting a slower, softer, easier life. However,
Speaker 7: I do think you run into trouble when you get
Speaker 7: very focused on just your partner, and again you can
Speaker 7: lose yourself in them. I think it's very important, especially
Speaker 7: as a woman, because we've been taught to be so relational,
Speaker 7: which is beautiful, but it's very important to still stay
Speaker 7: very connected to yourself. Like that's what I work on
Speaker 7: with my women. How do you stay connected in your
Speaker 7: own power, in your own authenticity to yourself and still
Speaker 7: stay connected to another.
Speaker 3: Right, that's the valle and you know when there's I
Speaker 3: don't think that it's black or white.
Speaker 2: You don't have to be a girl boss, no to yea,
Speaker 2: but saying that, you know, the new way is to
Speaker 2: simply take care of someone else, and again without marriage
Speaker 2: or any kind of if you're going to give up
Speaker 2: everything and that's the way you want to live is
Speaker 2: just to you know, make someone else happy that makes
Speaker 2: you happy. Well, you better be careful because because it's
Speaker 2: maybe there's potentially that it might.
Speaker 3: Not work out. And then what.
Speaker 6: Why do you think I personally signed a pren up
Speaker 6: with Evan because I came into the marriage with a
Speaker 6: lot of my parents' money, which I don't spend my parents'
Speaker 6: money at all, but I had to protect that out
Speaker 6: of respect for them. He had absolutely no issues signed
Speaker 6: your prenup. He's in finance, he's made his own money.
Speaker 6: But I feel like prenups get such a bad rap,
Speaker 6: and I think that they're so like, there's nothing wrong
Speaker 6: with them.
Speaker 7: I agree with you. I think they're so important because
Speaker 7: marriage is a legal commitment.
Speaker 3: As we know, people so against them. What is the
Speaker 3: bad rap with them?
Speaker 7: Because it's like that fairy tale love thing, you know,
Speaker 7: but we know people fall out of love.
Speaker 3: We know we're living much longer, we know change is inevitable.
Speaker 2: I would not have signed when I don't think and
Speaker 2: I'll tell you because is it' kind of about the
Speaker 2: it's about romanticizing marriage.
Speaker 3: How many what percentages? There are more than half marriages
Speaker 3: and and divorce?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: But I think, honestly because of my own security and
Speaker 3: knowing that, you know, we were going to enter into
Speaker 3: this partnership and.
Speaker 2: I was going to be home taking care of the
Speaker 2: kids and raising them, and Jeff was going to be
Speaker 2: bringing in, you know, the money, and.
Speaker 3: So what did that what would that look like at
Speaker 3: the end of the marriage.
Speaker 9: And this is the point I think that people think
Speaker 9: that a seen is going to automatically work against the woman.
Speaker 3: But I think that you can actually make it work
Speaker 3: in your favor. You can set up because if you
Speaker 3: leave it to the court, it's different. States have different
Speaker 3: rules on how what you're going to get, but you're
Speaker 3: going to do Yes, that's true. And have you ever
Speaker 3: known a woman?
Speaker 6: Have you ever known a woman to sign a prenup
Speaker 6: because she thought it would help her out.
Speaker 1: In the end.
Speaker 6: I only know women whould sign if the man would
Speaker 6: demand that she signed a prenup. I think that, do
Speaker 6: you do you you know women that signed prenups because
Speaker 6: they wanted to.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 7: But I think what Jackie's talking about is I think
Speaker 7: actually an interesting new way to look at prenups where
Speaker 7: it can protect both parties.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 7: I love that parties came in and like really decided,
Speaker 7: like mine intentionally, this is if we did break up,
Speaker 7: this is how we would do it. So I think traditionally,
Speaker 7: I don't think that's been Additionally it has not been
Speaker 7: like that. Like in my second I don't have pree up, right,
Speaker 7: I came with nothing, so worry about.
Speaker 3: That, right, you know.
Speaker 7: But the thing about one of the reasons why I
Speaker 7: wrote my book too is that I love this conversation.
Speaker 7: Is that education is what empowers us. So having these
Speaker 7: conversations and talking about different concepts, right, and then we get.
Speaker 3: Then we get to choose. Yeah, that's right, and we
Speaker 3: get to choose.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, listen, after the show is overall, meet you for
Speaker 2: dinner at what time?
Speaker 3: Because I'm obsessed so going to New York next week.
Speaker 6: Please let's get together. Really we would love to say
Speaker 6: you're amazing.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm going to to Good Morning America and NBC
Speaker 7: so to promote my boss.
Speaker 3: Amazing.
Speaker 6: It was such a pleasure of meeting you, and honestly,
Speaker 6: I love your perspective.
Speaker 3: So much. I love you so watching you. Thank you
Speaker 3: for entertaining me.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Need to go on. She was amazing, amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved her, and I was so taken with
Speaker 2: the fact that she was not so taken with the money.
Speaker 2: I mean, to go from you know, being poor and
Speaker 2: then thrust into a world of glamour and luxury and
Speaker 2: still drive all your stuff right to the courthouse.
Speaker 3: Good for her. I don't think it sounds like it
Speaker 3: was that hard. I think she's very grounded.
Speaker 2: I mean, she and I think that a lot of
Speaker 2: people are not when you get you know, when you
Speaker 2: become that wealthy, you lose perspective. That's why I think
Speaker 2: I really just liked her.
Speaker 9: Well, I think that the money didn't bring her happiness,
Speaker 9: and when she saw that or made it easier because
Speaker 9: a lot of unhappy people that have money, they'll still
Speaker 9: cling to it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, right, listen, here's the truth of it. I'm
Speaker 2: not above any of that. I don't have what some
Speaker 2: people have, and I have more than other people have.
Speaker 3: But guess what.
Speaker 2: I think that if I my lifestyle was about to change,
Speaker 2: I hope that I would be okay with that and
Speaker 2: be strong enough and say I'm not getting I'm not
Speaker 2: happy because I have a five bedroom colonial in Versaddle River.
Speaker 2: I could be happy and you know, with much less.
Speaker 9: Yeah. Well, you know what, Margaret Robby played her in
Speaker 9: a movie, a.
Speaker 3: Movie about me, and Marco Rockie played me. I could
Speaker 3: do that. Yeah, well that means that I'm pretty fucking gorgeous.
Speaker 1: Gorgeous.
Speaker 3: This was so good, it was it was really I
Speaker 3: loved hearing your upbringing story. I didn't know that about
Speaker 3: your dad.
Speaker 6: Really, that's well, Yeah, one of the divorce clients that
Speaker 6: I had lived in that same Trump Edding Tower.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Hi, I was in.
Speaker 2: I moved to New York City after college and I
Speaker 2: was in acting school and at that time he had
Speaker 2: moved to Dallas, so he had like six months left
Speaker 2: on his lease. So I moved in. I lived in
Speaker 2: a power and I would have these like parties, and
Speaker 2: the doormen were like, what the fuck it would be like,
Speaker 2: you know, kids coming in driving their bikes the goals,
Speaker 2: barking their bikes and bringing up like whatever, booze and
Speaker 2: paper bags.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's another great.
Speaker 2: Example of like being there at that time, I think
Speaker 2: made me feel fed into this feeling that I was
Speaker 2: somehow special. You know. Meanwhile, I was at that time
Speaker 2: in my life like it fed into that, and yet
Speaker 2: at the same time, I was not happy.
Speaker 3: At that point in my life.
Speaker 2: I was I was struggling with an eating disorder and
Speaker 2: feeling less than in so many different areas in my life,
Speaker 2: you know, and not feeling good about myself, not feeling attractive,
Speaker 2: not feeling like I really knew what I wanted to
Speaker 2: do with my life. But that fed into that part
Speaker 2: of me, you know, is attack to money. I have
Speaker 2: this apartment, I'm just as good as I'm better than
Speaker 2: while I was miserable.
Speaker 3: I'm so glad that you found yourself. Thank you. Not
Speaker 3: complete late act saying happy and briving.
Speaker 6: Do wait all right, guys, well, we are so happy
Speaker 6: that you tuned in and leave us five stars if
Speaker 6: you love us, we don't. No, don't tell them not
Speaker 6: to be. We're fucking five stars. Do it easy, all right?
Speaker 6: So until next time, guys, thank you so much. We
Speaker 6: are two Jersey days and we will see you next time.
Speaker 5: We b