1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: Hello friends, I'm Robert Evans, and this is once again 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards, the show where we tell you everything 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: you don't know about the very worst people in all 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: of history. Today is part two of our epic two 5 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:19,119 Speaker 1: part on Robert Kelly, better known as R. Kelly the King, 6 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: or at least like some level of baron of R 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: and B. Duke maybe count squid, No, that's way too 8 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: Squire of R and B would be like, yeah, I 9 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know enough about R and B 10 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: to make this joke better. How are you doing today, Teresa? 11 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: You're Theresa Lee. You're my guest on the first episode. 12 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: You're currently my guest on the second episode. You are 13 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: host of the podcast. You can tell me anything. You 14 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: are trying to get a word in edgewise as I 15 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: talk over you, like mayan, I was just agreein to 16 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: the things you said. Okay. I felt bad because I 17 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: feel like I definitely interrupted you a couple of times there. No, 18 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: I always look like I'm about to say something that's true. 19 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: I've been that's so true. I don't know why. I 20 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: think it's because I try to like seem attentive. You 21 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: have resting insight face oh, I was told by my 22 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: psychiatrist that I'm not particularly insightful, not told an evaluation. 23 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: I went to, this is not a real digression, quick sentence, 24 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: but I took an a d h D test and 25 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: then I got the whole evaluation and list everything you know, 26 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: like blah blah, like depression of blaa. And one of 27 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: them says insight and just said not extraordinary. I said, what, 28 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: I'm insightful? I mean I got similar feedback on a 29 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: B and E I was part of once, and I was, yeah, 30 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: it's hurtful to hear that from an evaluable, from a 31 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: clinical point of view, from a clinical evaluation of how 32 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: good you are breaking when nobody, nobody likes to hear that. 33 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: All right, you don't even to ask for more information, 34 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: because I will. It will just derail this conversation. Now, 35 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: that's the behind the bastards on me is going to 36 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: be a real great three partner coming out someday when 37 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: I Sophie is taking a picture of us right now. Fantastic. 38 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: All right, let's get back into part two now. When 39 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: we last left Robert Kelly, he had been declared not 40 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: guilty by a jury of his peers. Uh In a 41 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: court of law. So that's I mean, it's good for R. Kelly. 42 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: Let's hear about what happened there though, I mean, like, 43 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: you know, he does need help. Yeah, I would say 44 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: he would probably say that being declared not guilty of 45 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: twenty one counts of child pornographies it was a good 46 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: thing for him, true, Or maybe at this whole time 47 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:39,959 Speaker 1: you wanted to be caught. Maybe the whole time he 48 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: wanted to be caught. Well, we'll see how you feel 49 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: at the end of this. In March of two thousand eleven, 50 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: Billboard magazine declared Robert Kelly the number one R and 51 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: B artist of the last twenty five years. Four years later, 52 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: Billboard published another article, this one ranking the thirty five 53 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,959 Speaker 1: best R and B artists of all time. They put R. 54 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: Kelly at number fifteen, right under Luther Van Draw. I'm 55 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: no expert on the genre, but whenever people talk about 56 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: the goat in that particular type of music, are Kelly's 57 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: name always seems to be in the running. You know. 58 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: Over the course of his career, Kelly has sold more 59 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: than sixty million albums, which is an astonishing feat for 60 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: any artist of any era, in any genre of music. 61 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: Um Now. Whenever a famous person is accused of doing 62 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: terrible things, some chunk of their fan base will inevitably 63 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: rise to defend them. R kelly fans have a reputation 64 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: for being particularly devoted. Their defense of him is helped 65 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: by the fact that he was declared not guilty in 66 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: a court of law, but of course that does not 67 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: wipe away the numerous settled out of court lawsuits, or 68 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: the fact that he married a fifteen year old and 69 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: two thousand eight did not put an end to the 70 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: allegations against Kelly. We will be talking today about the 71 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: numerous details that have come out about his life in 72 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: the decades since his trial. In July of two thousand eleven, 73 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: the same year Billboard declared him the best R and 74 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: B singer of the last quarter century. R Kelly went 75 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: in for an emergency throat surgery who end up recovering 76 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: enough that by the end of that year he was 77 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: out touring again. And it was on that tour, at 78 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: a party after a show in Dallas, that R. Kelly 79 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: first met Kitty Jones. Now in two thousand seventeen, Kitty 80 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: was the subject of a blockbuster Rolling Stone article titled 81 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: Surviving R. Kelly. It's one of the two major pieces 82 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: on Kelly that's broken in the last year. The other 83 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: was a BuzzFeed article written by Jim Durgatis, formerly of 84 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: the Chicago Sun Times eternally mispronounced by me. The title 85 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: of Jim's article parents told police their daughter is being 86 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: held against her will, and R Kelly's cult marks probably 87 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 1: the strongest allegations made against the singer yet. So he 88 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: is now being accused of essentially running a sex cult. 89 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: And that's what we'll be talking about today. You know what, 90 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: nothing goes better with my early January as I'm struggling 91 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: to get off those Christmas pounds and I'm working to 92 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: get back into the groove, you know, getting right and 93 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: the yeah year. I just love listening to forty five 94 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: minutes or so of detailed recitations sex crimes that really 95 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: off the year. Good way to kick off the year, 96 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: Good way to kick off the year. Sometimes I just 97 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: look at pictures of John Wayne Gacy while I'm doing 98 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 1: push ups. That's not relevant, but that's your goals. Yeah, 99 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 1: that's that's that's my vision board. It's just John. It's 100 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: possible this podcast has done some damage to me. It's 101 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: possible Sophie's giving. You know, I think everyone guessed the 102 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:34,679 Speaker 1: looks Sophie's giving me. Um, let's move on. So I'd 103 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: like to start this episode by talking about Kitty's story, 104 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: because it seems like what happened to her is emblematic 105 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: of what happened and is still happening allegedly to a 106 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: lot of other women. And again, I have tried to 107 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: be good about putting it allegedly here. This is all alleged. 108 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: This has been proven in a court of law. There's 109 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: a lot of evidence. But again, allegedly. Add that in 110 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: your head if I forget to drop it in at 111 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: some point. So uh. Kitty Jones says that she and R. 112 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: Kelly hit it off at this party after his show. 113 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: He invited her to hang out with him on the 114 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: next stop of the tour and then handed her a 115 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: piece of paper with his phone number on it. He 116 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: told her to text him. When she did, he instructed 117 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: her to always call him daddy. Next he texted her 118 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: sin Pick, which she did, and like that they were off. 119 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: He flew her out to Denver and here's the rolling Stone. 120 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: The rolling Stone. Here's rolling Stone was like what he's 121 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:31,799 Speaker 1: been he's really been the point man on this story. Uh, 122 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 1: here's rolling stone. I got there before he did because he, 123 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,559 Speaker 1: of course doesn't like to fly, so he's taking the bus. 124 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: Jones says she had sent Kelly racy photos while he 125 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: was en route to the hotel and was excited to 126 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 1: reunite face to face. As she waited in the hotel 127 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: room for Kelly to arrive, she heard a knock at 128 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: the door. He brushed past me. Jones says, I'm thinking 129 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: we're going to hug or peck each other, but he 130 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: plopped down on the couch and pulled out his penis 131 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: and started pleasuring himself. Now that's not a great first move, 132 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: but these are both adults, for one thing, so nothing 133 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: was going on here. And also everything is different for celebrities. Uh. 134 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: I was attracted to him and was just like, well, okay, fine, 135 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: she says. Maybe he just has weird ways of getting off. 136 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: The two had oral sex that weekend, with Kelly, according 137 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: to Jones, saying things like I gotta teach you how 138 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: to be with me and I gotta train you. He 139 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: was like a drill sergeant. Even when he was pleasuring me. 140 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: Jones says he was telling me how to bend my 141 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: back and move my leg here, I'm like, why is 142 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: he directing it like this? It was very uncomfortable. But 143 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: at the same time, he's one of the most famous 144 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: R and B singers in the world, super rich, flying 145 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: you out and giving you a bunch of attentions. So 146 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: while there were a bunch of red flags, it's easy 147 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: to see how someone in Kitty's position could convince yourself 148 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: to ignore them. I think everyone listening to this, if 149 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: you've been in relationships that have turned pear shape, have 150 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: the experience of ignoring red flags. They don't rich for 151 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: me to ignore, they don't have to be rich. So 152 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: if he's got tens of millions of dollars and he's 153 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: one of the most famous people in the industry that 154 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: you're in, it's easier to ignore those red flags. Was 155 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: that a great line from BoJack Horse? When you when 156 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: you're looking at things with rose colored glasses, ignore them. 157 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: All the red flags just look like flags. I just 158 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: interrupted you again. That's a red flag right there. Yeah, 159 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: it's all good. I talk a lot. You should interrupt 160 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: me because I interrupt people. WHOA Hey, now you see 161 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: you've just been You've just been going through some of 162 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: the stuff these victims have been doing. And there you go, Well, 163 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: that's just because I have Libra in my chart. So whoa, Well, 164 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: now I am going to interrupt. Astrology has been brought 165 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: into it, and that's the excuse I need to throw 166 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: my logic brain at this. Let me tell you why 167 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: I clapped the hood of my car whenever I speed 168 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: through a red light, because men are not superstitious. There's things, yeah, 169 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: like if you tap the hood of your car when 170 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: you run through a red light, the police can't catch you. 171 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: Oh that's why I do it and make a wish. 172 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: Oh okay, cool that the police won't catch me. If 173 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: the police won't get that, I feel like we're both 174 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: doing the same thing there. Okay. So yeah there were 175 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: some red flags, but yeah, it's easy to see how 176 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 1: she could have ignored them. At first, Kitty found herself 177 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: drawn more and more into r Kelly's world. She was 178 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: a fresh divorce back on the dating field for the 179 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: first time in years, and not really into you know, 180 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: dating sucks. Dating on just like meeting Randalls in places 181 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: is not the best thing. Ever, So having this rich, 182 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: famous guy whose art she loved to fly her all 183 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: around the world and treat her like the only woman 184 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: on earth seemed pretty great. Uh, you can see how 185 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: it would wipe some of those flags away and why 186 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: it would make her forget the unsettling news report she'd 187 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: been hearing about Kelly for years. They did come up 188 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: in conversations with her friends. Quote Rob kind of makes 189 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: you feel like you have to defend him. It's like 190 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: you and him against the world. If someone brought him 191 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: up in conversation, immediately a wall went up. You know. 192 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: Some of the first stuff Kelly told her was like 193 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: that his girlfriend had died and he'd watched her die 194 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: when he was eight. You know, he talked about his 195 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: mom dying. Like when we started this story. It's easy R. Kelly. 196 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: Just talking about his background can get you on a 197 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: side of it, Like he's been through some ship and 198 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: he'd just been to cleared. Not guilty in accord a law. 199 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: You can again, it's a good tender bio. Not guilty 200 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: in a Coorto law. That's actually my whole resume. Yeah, yeah, 201 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: not in prison currently. Um So. In September of two 202 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: thousand eleven, Kitty Jones flew to Chicago to visit R. 203 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: Kelly's Trump Tower apartment. Robert sent his driver to pick 204 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: her up from the airport and ordered her not to 205 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: talk to him and to report back if he talked 206 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: to her. From this point, she started noticing that all 207 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: the men in Kelly's orbit kept a strict distance from her. 208 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: In total, their relationship would last more than two years. 209 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: Kitty Jones did the thing that I think Hollywood has 210 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: taught all of us to do. She cast caution to 211 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: the wind, let love into her heart, and gave up 212 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: everything to embark on a magical journey with a rich suitor. 213 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: How many romantic comedies have the same basic plot. Working 214 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: woman and like a high demand career like a radio 215 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: DJ or an architect or whatever, you know, suddenly meets 216 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: this ridiculously wealthy man who sweeps her off her carefully 217 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: planned life path and off her feet, and like she 218 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: has this romantic it that's like half of the room 219 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: Ron comes I've seen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty woman. This 220 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,719 Speaker 1: is like the fifty shades of gray fantasy. Like he's 221 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: a little bit harder and creepy in some ways, but 222 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: he's also this super rich, famous guy, And I don't know, 223 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: I feel like it's one of those things where like 224 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: it could be easy to be like, how could you 225 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: let this thing go to where it's about to go. Also, 226 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 1: you want to trust you if you're a nice person, 227 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: you want to think the best of people. So it's 228 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,719 Speaker 1: hard to look someone in the face would be nice 229 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: to you and be like you're bad because people are multifaceted. 230 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: They're not just good at bad and you know, yeah, 231 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: and they do bad things and that we do have 232 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: to take that into account, but they could be kind yeah, 233 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 1: And it's like anyone you're going to get into a 234 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: long term relationship with, you will notice certain red flags 235 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,559 Speaker 1: about them because everybody has aspects of their behavior that 236 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: could turn into serious problems, right, And maybe she thought 237 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: she could fix it. Maybe she was like, oh, he's 238 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: getting better, that we are super good at lying to ourselves. Um, 239 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: And I think she made the same decision and where 240 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: there's a lot of other women that have made these decisions. 241 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: I just want to make it clear, like everything about 242 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: her actions up to this point makes sense to me. Sure. 243 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: I mean it is weird like when survivors come out 244 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: like women, mostly women, but not always women, but oftentimes 245 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: women get blamed for wanting to believe the best in people, 246 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: and so that I why did you, Why did you 247 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: go with them? Why did you Why did you not 248 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: say a thing? Because because they wanted to believe And 249 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: the blame is not pushed on the man for doing 250 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: the bad thing. But yeah, and it's all compounded when 251 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: like this is all happening in luxury, like first class 252 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: airfare and like gigantic, fancy, beautiful, furnished departments and like 253 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: all this like that has an impact. We're trained to 254 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: respond differently to that sort of thing. So in November, 255 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: Jones quit her job and left Texas. She moved to R. 256 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: Kelly's Trump Tower apartment. At least one of her friends 257 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: at the time encouraged her to do it, saying, you 258 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: only live once. I mean, fuck, it's R. Kelly good logic. Uh, 259 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: there was some weirdness right off the bat. In her 260 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: interview with Rolling Stone, Kitty recalled one of the first 261 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: orders Kelly gave her. He said, I have friends, and 262 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: I have girls I've raised. I didn't know what he 263 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: meant by raised at the time. He said, I eventually 264 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: want you to meet them, but I want to make 265 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: sure you're mentally ready for that. Oh no, unsetty. That's 266 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: a real red flag right there. Yeah, that is that's 267 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: like the size of that red flag they unraveled in 268 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: the Reichstag when the Third Reich fell. That that scale 269 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: of red flag. So as soon as she arrived, Kelly 270 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: required her to wear baggy sweatpants anytime Kitty went outside, 271 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: and to text him with extreme regularity so he always 272 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: knew where she was. She would send text like Daddy, 273 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: I need to go to the restroom if she needed 274 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: to like poop or something. Uh. New commands were introduced 275 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 1: with regularity. Kelly would ask her to stand up and 276 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: greet him whenever he entered a room. Kitty says it 277 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: took about a month for R. Kelly to hit her 278 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: for the first time. Um oh yeah, Well, I want 279 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: to like kind of interject a little on because I 280 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: think there's some stuff getting confounded, because I do think 281 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: like clearly he's mountain of his choos and clearly doing 282 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: things that without consent I'm sure with these girls. But 283 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: also like there is like the whole idea of like 284 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: you know, doms and subs that in itself, while if 285 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: you're outside of it could be funny, is not inherently bad. 286 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: Like if it was a consensual relationship of being like 287 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna text daddy whatever that like, it might be 288 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: like weird for someone who doesn't do it, but that 289 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: in itself, I don't think it is inherently a problem. 290 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: It's only a problem if it's non consensual, because there's 291 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: plenty of adults who get in relationships like that where 292 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: it's for both sides pleasurable to be the sub and 293 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: be the doms. So I just want to add that 294 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: because I don't think the idea of texting like, you know, 295 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: some people are into that, like oh text me every 296 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: time you go that a safe word and it's completely 297 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: you know, consensual, I think that would be fine. Clearly, 298 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: I don't think that's the case, but I don't want 299 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: to confound some of the elements with um terminal activity 300 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: number one. Aside from the allegations of physical violence, nothing 301 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: we're talking about right now is clear evidence of criminal activity, 302 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: right because if she's into it, or if she lied 303 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: about being into it, yeah, we should teach a woman 304 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: to be more clear about what they want. But you know, 305 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: if he said this is a thing i'm into, are 306 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: you down and she said yes, and she wasn't. That 307 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: is a little bit gray area because yeah, I don't know. 308 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: I know, like everything up until we hit physical violence point, 309 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: everything we're talking about could potentially be part of something innocuous. 310 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: All the behavior. Yeah, so um Kelly hitting her occurred 311 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: because she went back to Dallas for Thanksgiving and while 312 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: she was there, one of her friends or family members 313 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: showed her the infamous are Kelly Pete. She got angry 314 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: and called him to ask about it. He responded, bitch, 315 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: don't you ever fucking accused me of something like that. 316 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: When she flew back, Kitty claims R Kelly met her 317 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: at the airport. My heart was just beating through my chest. 318 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: He just turned into a monster. I blame myself because 319 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: I was like, maybe I shouldn't have said anything. Jones claims. R. 320 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: Kelly got her back to his car and then began 321 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: slap her repeatedly. I was putting my hand over my 322 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: face and telling him I was sorry. He would start 323 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: kicking me, telling me I was a stupid bitch and 324 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: don't ever get in his business. Kitty Jones alleges that 325 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: seems like this took place roughly ten times in the 326 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: first year they lived together in between things would seem 327 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: to return to normal. They'd shop and have fun, and 328 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: once they've been together for over a year, he even 329 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: asked her to take part in his upcoming tour. At 330 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: the time, it probably looked like things were getting better, 331 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: like maybe she'd fixed some of the fund up things 332 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: about him. The violence dried up, and suddenly the relationship 333 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: started to look like it was going to be the 334 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: awesome ride it was always supposed to be. Here's like 335 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: gaslighting to be like here, I saw you doing a 336 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: bad thing and be like, don't accuse me of doing 337 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: a bad thing. It's like, no, no, I'm not accusing you. 338 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: I saw you do a bad things. It's on tape. Yeah, 339 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: that's that's straight up gas one to one. Yeah, yeah, 340 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: he's definitely gas lighting her. Um. Here's where the Rolling 341 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: Stone describing Kitty's role in the tour because he actually 342 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: gave her a job during the tour. After Kelly brings 343 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: Jones on stage, two men dressed in white lab coats 344 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: makers sign a waiver and chain her arms inside a 345 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: white cage. Kelly enters as a white sheet is draped 346 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: over the cage, obscaring the couple. The cage begins rocking 347 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: as the band's music intensifies, with Jones and Kelly eventually 348 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 1: shown silhouetted after Kelly simulates oral sex on Jones. The 349 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,719 Speaker 1: two re emerge in a mock fatigue Jones has let 350 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: off stage. I've never paraded around anybody before, Jones says. 351 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: Kelly told her before the tour started, I'm going to 352 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: make sure people see us together. Hm, so again, drawing 353 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: her in. On January tween, after they got back from 354 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 1: the tour, R Kelly had Kitty Jones moved out of 355 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,199 Speaker 1: his Trump Tower apartment and into a room in his 356 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: recording studio. She claimed she learned later that Kelly was 357 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: moving another girl into the Trump Tower apartment, but at 358 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 1: the time she thought they were just both kind of 359 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 1: transitioning over to a new place. Now. R Kelly never 360 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: told her this, but she says she eventually grew to 361 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 1: realize she was living with two other women in the 362 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: rooms attached to R. Kelly's recording studio. Kelly did his 363 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: best to stop the women from learning about each other. 364 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: The rooms were filled with cameras and the women weren't 365 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 1: allowed to leave without getting his permission first. It's a 366 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: testament to the degree of control he was exercising over 367 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: these people that it actually took a while for Jones 368 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:06,479 Speaker 1: to realize she wasn't alone. Yeah, when Kitty Jones did 369 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 1: something r Kelly defined his misbehaving, he take away her 370 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: phone for two months, since she had to text him 371 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: to do stuff like use the bathroom or eat, this 372 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: effectively cut her off from being able to maintain essential 373 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: biological functions. She claims it was March two thirteen before 374 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: she actually met another one of R Kelly's girlfriends. Seems 375 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: like the wrong word. She says. He brought the woman 376 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: in naked and said, I raised her. I've trained this bitch. 377 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: This is my pet. Then he made the other woman 378 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: perform oral sex on her. Kelly describes the next chunk 379 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: of their relationship as six months of hell. Yikes. So 380 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: you're essentially grooming them to a point and then cutting 381 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: them off from they're regular lives and relationships. That he's 382 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: done the things that cult does. Yeah, he's doing all 383 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 1: of the things that coult does, except for inventing his 384 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: own language. I guess single ahead and well maybe I 385 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: mean he had to call she had to call him daddy, 386 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: Like there's probably more coded language. They had to use. 387 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 1: You're right, you're right, And there's the Rolling Stone article 388 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: includes images of the texts and stuff they've got her phone, 389 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: like text she would send him saying like I need 390 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: this food or like can I go to the bathroom 391 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So like some of this is documented, again, 392 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 1: not illegal. This, There are consensual relationships that work like this, 393 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: or at least at times there are some seven you know, 394 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: so again we're not condemning that, but clearly Kitty was 395 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: not giving enthusiastic consent, right, and then waits. So the 396 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: thing on stage, she signs a waiver on stage. Yeah, yeah, 397 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: it was part of like like an act. So the 398 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: whole gimmick is that's I think the gimmick is that 399 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: he's pleasuring a random woman. He's just so insatiable or 400 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: what the waiver. I think it's just because it's funny 401 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 1: to be like it's legal or something. Yeah, I mean like, oh, 402 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: you're gonna get hurt because I'm so good, Yeah, something 403 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: like that. Speaking of enthusiastic consent, you remember when I 404 00:19:52,040 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 1: said that a couple of sentences ago. We're back, we're 405 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: talking about products. Do you love a good service? Do 406 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: you like products? I love it. If you had to 407 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: rank products and services, would you put products first or services? 408 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: I think they go hand in hand. Okay, I'm gonna 409 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 1: go product that services me or services that I don't know? Services? 410 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: The product I do love being produced, Sophie. We brought 411 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: that around nicely. All right, let's talk about our Kelly Moore. Okay, great, Okay, 412 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: I thought you were going to go into read or something. 413 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: I am about to. Uh So we had just gotten 414 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: to the point where Kelly introduced Kitty to the women 415 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: other woman he had trained. Which are the other women 416 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: who are living in this weird Do we know how 417 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: many there were? I'll be getting to that. It's unclear 418 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: exactly how many exist. In total. There were three total 419 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: women living in the billing around this recording studio, plus 420 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 1: another woman in Trump Tower at the time, so at 421 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: least four ladies in like the Chicago area. But yeah, 422 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: so Kitty describes Yeah, the next chunk of their relationship 423 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: with six months of hell. This recording studio. Weird Erotic 424 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: Compound is the cult described in the BuzzFeed article. That 425 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: article starts with the story of j a mother who 426 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: alleges that R. Kelly brainwashed her daughter and brought her 427 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 1: daughter into this creepy carousel of abused women that seems 428 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: to exist if all this reporting is accurate. Between them, 429 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,719 Speaker 1: Rolling Stone and BuzzFeed have done their homework. BuzzFeed talk 430 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: to Kitty Jones as well, in addition to two other 431 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 1: members of R. Kelly's inner circles. There's a lot of 432 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: sources for both of these articles. There's a lot of 433 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: research and backup that's been done. What they found suggests 434 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: that six women live in buildings owned by Kelly in Chicago, 435 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: in Atlanta at least six women, or at least in 436 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: two thousands seventeen at least six women. They were all 437 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: subject to the same sort of controls as Kitty Jones. 438 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: Kelly tells themone to eat in bathe makes them do 439 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: what he wants to their bodies, and of course he 440 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 1: films every sex act between them. Uh Jay claims that 441 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 1: her daughter, who of course was an aspiring singer, met 442 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,360 Speaker 1: Kelly backstage after a show in Indio, California. You might 443 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: expect that experience to normally yield an autographed at best, 444 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: but Kelly listened to the nineteen year olds demo c 445 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 1: D and gave her a detailed and insightful critiques of 446 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 1: her performance. Now, this was in two thousand fifteen, and 447 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: most R and B fans would probably agree that R Kelly. 448 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 1: You know, of course, the mom's syched. If you're like 449 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: a fan R and B your daughter wants to be 450 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 1: in that genre and like one of the best guys 451 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: ever is listening to her demo CD and giving her critiques. 452 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 1: Of course, as a mom, you're probably excited. What happened 453 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 1: next was similar enough to what we saw with Kitty. 454 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: Kelly started flying Jay's daughter to hang with him, ostensibly 455 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: so he could help shape and boost your career. Jay 456 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: went along with the situation because, first off, who wouldn't 457 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: want your kid to be rich and successful? And second 458 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: her kid was nineteen, so there's something she could do 459 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: to stop it. And she may be like with parents 460 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: who don't understand the industry, might be like, oh, well, 461 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 1: this might just be part of it. They don't really know. 462 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 1: They don't really know, and again, there's nothing you can do. 463 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: So they were a air of the allegations against Kelly. 464 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: Both Jay and her daughter and Jay and her husband 465 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: tried to make sure that one of them would be 466 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: around whenever their daughter was with Kelly. But you know, R. 467 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: Kelly's a multi millionaire with essentially unlimited resources, so things 468 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: got started um Before too long, Jay's daughter moved in 469 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: with R. Kelly and quickly ceased almost all contact with 470 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: her parents. They still get the occasional scattered phone call, 471 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: but the last time they saw their girl was on 472 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: December one, two thousand and sixteen. It was as if 473 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: she was brainwashed. She looked like a prisoner. It was horrible. 474 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 1: I hugged her and hugged her, but she kept saying 475 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: she's in love and Kelly is the one who cares 476 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: for her. I don't know what to do. I hope 477 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 1: that if I get her back, I can get her 478 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: treatment for victims of colts, they can reprogram her. But 479 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: I wish I could have stopped it from happening. Buzz 480 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: put together a list of some other women. They believe 481 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,199 Speaker 1: you're cut up in this. Whatever the thing is. This 482 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 1: was like seventeen, a thirty one year old din mother 483 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 1: who trained newcomers on how Kelly liked to be pleasured sexually. 484 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: She has been best friends since high school with the 485 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: girl in the videotape for which Kelly was tried in 486 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: two thou and eight, she recently parted well. One of 487 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: them she recently parted ways with Kelly. These sources say 488 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: a twenty five year old woman who has also been 489 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 1: part of Kelly scene for seven years, a recent arrival, 490 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: A nineteen year old model who has been photographed in 491 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: public with Kelly and named on music gossip websites a 492 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: rarity among the women in his circle. An Atlanta songwriter 493 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: who began her relationship with Kelly around two thousand nine, 494 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: when she was nineteen. She is now twenty six, and 495 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: a eighteen year old singer from Polk County, Florida. Max 496 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: said the Florida singer is Kelly's favorite, his number one girl. Now, 497 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 1: you'll notice everyone involved in this is eighteen or older, 498 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: so it's possible that some were younger when things started. 499 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: So you know, there's no law being broken necessarily here, 500 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: except for the alleviations of physical violence. Those are just 501 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: allegations at this point. Now. Years ago, a former young 502 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: protege of R. Kelly had told Jim DeRogatis that quote, 503 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 1: he likes the babies and that's the sickness. He can 504 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: control her and she don't know no better. If the 505 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: details of these women are correct, it is possib well 506 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: Kelly has gotten over that sickness because these are all adults. 507 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: Or it might be evidence that underage women were never 508 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: the draw to him. Maybe it's always been about control 509 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: all along, and that's why he always sought out such 510 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: young women. If you take this view of it, then 511 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: maybe it just took him decades to build up the 512 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: skills necessary to do what he did to an adult 513 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: like Kitty Jones and other adults like who knows in 514 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: his twenties, he can only get away with doing it 515 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: sixteen year olds. Now he's like fifty something, he's able 516 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: to more effectively manipulate adults. And that's what it's about, 517 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: is the control. Maybe that's it. Uh. BuzzFeed also talked 518 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: to the parents of that eighteen year old singer from Florida, 519 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 1: kelly supposed New Favorite. She was seventeen when they met. 520 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: After some of Kelly's people picked her and a few 521 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 1: other young women out at a concert and pulled them 522 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: on stage during the show. Afterwards, one of Kelly's people 523 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: handed her his phone number. Her parents were okay with 524 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,199 Speaker 1: them talking at first, because you know, they figured they 525 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: could make sure one of them was with her whenever 526 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: she met him, and then he thought it would be 527 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: a great opportunity for her if she had a future 528 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: in the music industry. This girl's mother told Jim de 529 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 1: rogattas that quote. My thing was I trusted. I have 530 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: never been in the music industry before. Ever. He is 531 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: a lyrical genius. He's R. Kelly. And the fact is 532 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: that he went to court, he was never found guilty, 533 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 1: he was acquitted, and we were led to believe there 534 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: was no truth in it. Now I got all these 535 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,199 Speaker 1: people asking about why my daughter is there telling me 536 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 1: all of that the charges against Kelly was true? Well, 537 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: how come you didn't tell me before? I'd be pissed 538 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: about the case too. Now it's hard to say if 539 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: Kelly did anything illegal. Here, the girl's mom does alleged 540 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: that one day after school, her daughter met R. Kelly 541 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,919 Speaker 1: after classes without telling her parents. First. They came to 542 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: the hotel and called the cops. Uh, and she came 543 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 1: down and you know, left with them. Uh. Kelly had 544 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: refused to speak to them. Um. Their girl was seventeen 545 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: at this point, and it would have been illegal if 546 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: they did anything at that point. But soon enough she 547 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: was eighteen and old enough to do whatever she wanted, 548 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: and as soon as she was eighteen, she moved in 549 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 1: with R. Kelly. One of Kelly's former close associates who 550 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: spoke with BuzzFeed is the person who claimed this lady 551 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 1: is Kelly's favorite, but he also says he witnessed the 552 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 1: singer punisher quote. He left the Florida woman on the 553 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: tour bus for like three days and she was not 554 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: allowed to come out. He said she didn't do her homework. 555 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: That's why she was punished, which was very confusing because 556 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 1: she had just graduated high school over the summer. Yeah, 557 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: what kind of homework is talking about? Oh boy, that 558 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: look is very ominous. What are you? What kind of homeworking? 559 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: It's something gross, It's something He's homework is standing for 560 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 1: something gross here. I'm gonna guess sure, okay, And that 561 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 1: is more or less the situation today. Kelly and his 562 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 1: representatives deny any wrongdoing. These are all consensual relationships between adults, 563 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: and right now, it truly seems like there is nothing 564 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,959 Speaker 1: that can really be done about this from a legal standpoint. However, 565 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: several boycott campaigns have been raised against the musician hashtag 566 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: a mute R Kelly being the most notable. He has 567 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: had a number of his shows shut down, and it 568 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: does seem like a measure of justice has been done 569 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: via journalism in public outrage. Robert Kelly's popularity has fallen 570 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: significantly in the last decade, and two fifteen he released 571 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 1: The Buffet, his thirteenth studio album. It is the worst 572 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: performing album of his career, selling only twenty six thousand 573 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: copies in his first week. His two thousand sixteen album 574 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: Twelve Nights of Christmas seems to have sold better, peaking 575 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: at one seventy seven on the Billboard two hundred chart, 576 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 1: but he's not putting out the numbers he used to. 577 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,439 Speaker 1: Critical reception to his music has also flattened out in 578 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: recent years. It's possible some of those is just do 579 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: the fact that he's in his fifties now and it's 580 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: not uncommon for people to but yeah, it seems like 581 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: it's possible that all of the reporting and all of 582 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: the boycott campaigns have had an impact. Jim de Rogatis, 583 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,719 Speaker 1: the journalist most responsible for breaking the stories of Kelly's 584 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 1: alleged sexual abuse and exploitation of women, was actually mentioned 585 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: in a recent R Kelly song He's actually appeared on 586 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: several of R kelly songs over the years. In July 587 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: of two eighteen, R Kelly dropped the nineteen minute track 588 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: I admit here are some lyrics. Yeah to Jim Deer Gaddis, 589 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: whatever your name is, you've been trying to destroy him 590 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: for twenty five whole years, right in the same stories, 591 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: over and over again. Off my name, you've done, went 592 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: and made yourself a career. But guess what I pray 593 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: for you in family and all my other enemies. I'm 594 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: not gonna let y'all steal my jo way. I'm just 595 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: gonna keep on doing me now. I don't know what 596 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: else to say except I'm so falsely accused. Tell me 597 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: how you can judge when you've never walked in my shoes? 598 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: So easy to mess up someone else's life. You know, 599 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: I think that R Kelly. I don't because I kind 600 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: of think, like, is he an narcissist? But I don't 601 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: think he quite fits the bill. But the elements of 602 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: like he has some elements of that, like narcissists don't. 603 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: He doesn't believe he's wrong, and I do believe that 604 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: in that part he's telling the truth. So I do 605 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: think he truly believes he's falsely accused, because he in 606 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: his mind in a twisted way, he's justified all of 607 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: his interactions. But that's where it gets tricky, because people 608 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: with someone so famous that they love want that gotcha 609 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: moment where they're like, I'm wrong and I lied. But 610 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: I think they're never going to get that because I 611 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: don't think he believes that he lied. I think he 612 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: believes because he's done these somersults in his head to 613 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: convince himself. I think believes he's innocent because of whatever 614 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: his past or whatever, and so he's never gonna admit 615 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: he wide in that sense. So we just have to decide. Yeah. Now, 616 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: Variety interviewed Jim de Rogatis about this, and I'd like 617 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: to read a quote from that Variety article. This is Jim. 618 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: I've accomplished a lot in my life besides this R. 619 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: Kelly story. But I continue to get calls from sources 620 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: six or seven times a week, as I have for 621 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: eighteen years, saying R. Kelly has hurt me or my 622 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: daughter Allegedly. You're not a journalist or human being if 623 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: you get those calls and do not do your job. 624 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: Has it made me rich laughs. I have not gotten 625 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: rich from reporting on R Kelly. I've had a marriage ruined, 626 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: I've had many sleepless nights, and I have an ulcer, 627 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: which sounds self serving, and I don't mean to, because 628 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: what I've endured over eighteen years is nothing compared to 629 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: the stories I've heard from young women who had relationships 630 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: with him that left them devastated, destroyed their families, in 631 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,959 Speaker 1: their lives to the point of attempting suicide. Those are 632 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: in public court documents and on the record interviews. In 633 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: October two, that's and eighteen, Kelly's wife went public on 634 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: the View with explicit allegations of physical abuse at the 635 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,719 Speaker 1: hands of her ex husband. She says she went public 636 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: in essence to support the other women, like Kitty Jones, 637 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: who have talked openly about the abuse they claim to 638 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: have suffered at the hands of Robert Kelly. I'd like 639 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: to play a little bit of that. I'm gonna try 640 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: and get through without crying. Very difficult. Um. A lot 641 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: of people know that I'm a professional dancer, so my 642 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: body is my work. And I remember one time he 643 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: attacked me in the back of a hummer, and I 644 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: do suffer from PTSD because of it. Whenever hummers, when 645 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: I would see them on the road, I would shake 646 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: my hands with sweat and I would get nervous and 647 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: I couldn't breathe. And he attacked me one time in 648 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: the back of a hummer, and I thought I was 649 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: gonna die in the back of the hummer because what 650 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: he had done. He had taken this left arm and 651 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: pulled it behind me, and his weight was on my body. 652 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: But he didn't realize his forearm was on my neck. 653 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: So as he's pressing down, my breathing is getting labored. 654 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: And the only reason why I think I made it 655 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: out because I said, Robert, you're gonna kill me. I 656 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: can't breathe. You have to get your arm off of 657 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: my neck. And I just remember sitting in the back 658 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: of the hummer and it got blue, and I just thought, 659 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm gonna die in the back of 660 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: this hummer and he's gonna drive off with my body 661 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: in the back, see, and nobody's gonna know. Yeah. I 662 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: don't know what other sound to make at the end 663 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: of that. To end, I would like to go back 664 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: to that two thousands sixteen g Q interview. I quoted 665 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: at the start of the first episode, um, the writer 666 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: of that interviewed Kelly and got a lot of detail 667 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: about Kelly's own sexual abuse as a child. Robert's answers 668 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: to his questions are thoughtful and complex. At one point, 669 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: he reflects on the generational nature of abuse. This is 670 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: Robert Kelly quote. As I'm older, I look at it 671 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: and I know that it had to be not just 672 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: about me and them, but them and somebody older than 673 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: them when they were younger, and whatever happened to them 674 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: when they were younger. I looked at it as if 675 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: it was some sort of, like I don't know, a 676 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: generational curse, so to speak, going down through the family, 677 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: not just started with her doing that to me. Later 678 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: in the interview, r. Kelly admits that this experience caused 679 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: him to be sexual much earlier than was healthy. Then. 680 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: He said, quote, you know, no different from putting a 681 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: loaded gun in a kid's hand, he gonna grow up 682 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: to being a shooter. Probably. I think it affects you 683 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: tremendously when that happens at an early age, to be 684 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: more horny, or your hormones are more up than they 685 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: would be normally. Mine was the reporter asked him, and 686 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: do you think that set you on the path that 687 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: you kept on? R Kelly responded, Yeah, in a lot 688 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: of ways, absolutely, I think so. Dang, so I can 689 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: talk what I said about him not knowing he's wrong. 690 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: That sounds like a guilty man. That does sound like 691 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: a really fucking guilty man, right allegedly. You know what 692 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: sucks is that because people with stories like that, people 693 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: wait so long for that moment too, like you know 694 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: what you know already, but we're waiting for like a 695 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: a moment of truth. But you don't need that we 696 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: have it. But what sucks about that is like, let's 697 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: say he gets to ninety and it's like on his 698 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: deathbed and then he comes back and apologizes. You know, 699 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: people are going to forgive him, and that's the thing. 700 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: It's like, no, we've got to stop it in its tracks. 701 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: We have to stop pushing people to show us the truth. 702 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: We know the truth, Yeah, we know the truth in 703 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: this case, you don't need to wait for him to 704 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: like forgiveness, so we can forgive him because he's going 705 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: to like at the end of before he dies, he's 706 00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: probably gonna be like, funk, all right, I want to 707 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: die and knowing that I made all my wrongs right 708 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: by then, he's already done too many wrongs. Yeah, we 709 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: should stop him from doing it now. But also like 710 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: he can't stop him with any laws. There's probably nothing 711 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: illegal being done other than I'm guessing he's hitting these 712 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: women pretty regularly, which is illegal. But if they don't like, 713 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: you can't just like have a cop hang out next 714 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,280 Speaker 1: to him all the time. This is where I don't 715 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: condone this, but this is why I do think it's 716 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: funny when people make this joke. And for the record, 717 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 1: I don't condone this, but whenever people are like, you 718 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 1: know what, let's just do it back to them, and 719 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: I don't think we should do that. But when women 720 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 1: are very angry and say that, I'm like, yeah, because 721 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: they're not responding to the peaceful protests, Like you know, 722 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: he's just he knows, he's just going to get away 723 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: with it. There is no point where And again I'm 724 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: not actually this kind of joke. I don't really think 725 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,839 Speaker 1: we should abuse him back, but it's like, I don't know, 726 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: there's more to be done than nothing. Yeah, I think 727 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 1: the boycotts are a lot I think trying to like 728 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: a lot of places have stopped reviewing his music. I 729 00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: know Rolling Stone won't anymore. I think we're past that. 730 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: I think we're pass boycotting. I don't know what else 731 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: there is to do, though, other than you try to 732 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 1: take away this guy's money until they're unless they're Like, 733 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: as soon as someone else brings a case to court, 734 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,240 Speaker 1: then you can support that person. But like, up until 735 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: that point, you can't. I don't know. Legally, there's not 736 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: much to do. What cut off his dick? All right? Well, 737 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: how about you and I rolled down to the Los 738 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: Angeles County court House and we file for a writ 739 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 1: of dick removal or just like spend his dick? That 740 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 1: was harsh. I don't think we should cut it off. 741 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: I think we should like suspend it until he stubbs 742 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,840 Speaker 1: a temporary restraining word between him and his own painis confiscated, 743 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: confiscated by the government. I know exactly which l a 744 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: p D officer I would have delivered that. Okay, he 745 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: lives near my street. That all right? We successfully ended 746 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,320 Speaker 1: on a light note with that joke about an L 747 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: A p D officers enormous uncomfortable hand ends. Uh, Teresa, 748 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: you got some plug doubles to plug Sure. I'm at 749 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 1: Larisa Ti on Twitter, on Instagram, and I have a 750 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: podcast called You Can Tell Me Anything. And I'm Robert Evans. 751 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: I have a book called A Brief History of Ice. 752 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 1: You can buy it on Amazon. I hurt myself with drugs, uh, 753 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 1: and you took we I gave you way too many 754 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: mush rooms without meaning to, and you tripped for hours. 755 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,799 Speaker 1: It was a fun night. We were all way too high. 756 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: Well that's gonna do it for us today. You can 757 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: find this podcast behind the Bastards dot com. You can 758 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,879 Speaker 1: find us on Twitter and Instagram and at Bastards pod, 759 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 1: and you can buy our merch at t Public Behind 760 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: the Bastards. We got cups, we got stickers, we got shirts, 761 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: we got hoodies. We have a scale replica of the 762 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: Fat Boy atomic bomb that was dropped in nineteen with 763 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 1: a picture of my face smiling on it. So all 764 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,280 Speaker 1: of those products are more available on our t public 765 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:08,280 Speaker 1: store Behind the Bastards. Check us out and until next week. Remember, 766 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: I love statistically stochastically roughly. You m