WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Molly Bish 0:00:46.480 --> 0:00:51.961 School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:55.361 case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 0:00:55.401 --> 0:00:58.761 witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:02.961 be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 0:01:03.001 --> 0:01:06.160 from family and community members, their statements should not be 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.961 considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 0:01:10.041 --> 0:01:14.000 inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:17.160 presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 0:01:17.961 --> 0:01:20.840 Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 0:01:21.041 --> 0:01:23.601 that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 0:01:24.121 --> 0:01:27.121 is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 0:01:31.761 --> 0:01:35.321 On June twenty seventh, two thousand, Maggie Bish drove her 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:38.481 sixteen year old daughter, Molly and Bish to her job 0:01:38.961 --> 0:01:43.721 lifeguarding at Commons Pond in the town of Warren, Massachusetts. 0:01:43.721 --> 0:01:46.280 Ellie was excited about her new job, which she had 0:01:46.321 --> 0:01:50.001 just started eight days earlier. Mollie came from a close 0:01:50.081 --> 0:01:53.721 knit family. She grew up with her mom Maggie, her 0:01:53.841 --> 0:01:57.481 dad John, her sister Heather, and her brother John Junior. 0:01:58.321 --> 0:02:01.721 Mollie was the baby of the family. According to New 0:02:01.761 --> 0:02:05.401 England dot Com, Molly's father, John, had been living in 0:02:05.441 --> 0:02:08.281 Detroit and was on track to become a priest when 0:02:08.361 --> 0:02:11.201 he met and fell in love with Maggie. Then he 0:02:11.281 --> 0:02:15.881 left seminary and they got married. The newlyweds relocated to 0:02:15.921 --> 0:02:20.001 Warren because it was John's hometown and because they believed 0:02:20.041 --> 0:02:21.841 that it would be a safe place to raise a family, 0:02:22.441 --> 0:02:26.521 and for a long time it was. Maggie was a 0:02:26.561 --> 0:02:31.121 first grade teacher, John was a probation officer. Mollie's brother, 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.841 John Junior, also worked as a lifeguard at Commons Pond. 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.721 He actually trained Mollie during her first six days on 0:02:38.761 --> 0:02:42.400 the job before she started lifeguarding and teaching swimming lessons 0:02:42.401 --> 0:02:46.001 to children on her own. At school, Molly was on 0:02:46.041 --> 0:02:48.881 the Hona roll. She had just been to her first prom, 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:51.321 and she was looking forward to starting her senior year. 0:02:51.961 --> 0:02:56.481 She was athletic and played soccer, basketball, and softball. Her 0:02:56.521 --> 0:03:01.241 obituary red quote, funny and social, Molly loved everyone. She 0:03:01.401 --> 0:03:05.800 was a blend of lucy and forst gump end quote. 0:03:05.841 --> 0:03:09.961 Maggie and Molly had a routine. Maggie dropped Molly off 0:03:10.001 --> 0:03:13.041 at work every day. She would later tell police that 0:03:13.121 --> 0:03:15.641 the day before on June twenty six, when she dropped 0:03:15.641 --> 0:03:18.401 Molly off at work, she saw something weird in the 0:03:18.441 --> 0:03:22.521 parking lot. She noticed a man with a mustache smoking 0:03:22.561 --> 0:03:26.401 a cigarette. He was driving a white sedan, and this 0:03:26.521 --> 0:03:30.961 man was staring at Molly and at one point, Maggie said, 0:03:31.041 --> 0:03:34.041 she looked over at this man and locked eyes with him. 0:03:34.561 --> 0:03:37.561 Maggie said there was nothing overtly threatening about the guy, 0:03:38.001 --> 0:03:40.201 but as a mother, he made the hair on the 0:03:40.281 --> 0:03:43.961 back of her neck stand up. She was so unnerve 0:03:44.321 --> 0:03:47.521 that on June twenty six she waited for about twenty 0:03:47.521 --> 0:03:51.761 minutes until the mustache stranger drove away. The next morning, 0:03:51.841 --> 0:03:54.921 on June twenty seventh, she didn't see any sign of 0:03:54.921 --> 0:03:58.921 the creepy stranger, so she felt safe dropping Mollie off 0:03:58.961 --> 0:03:59.361 at work. 0:04:00.281 --> 0:04:01.801 When Mollie got out of the car. 0:04:01.721 --> 0:04:04.801 Ahead of the beach that day, her mother later told 0:04:04.881 --> 0:04:08.001 CBS that Mollie's last words to her were. 0:04:08.401 --> 0:04:09.761 I love you, Mom. 0:04:10.161 --> 0:04:13.521 That was the last time that Maggie bish ever saw 0:04:13.561 --> 0:04:19.241 her daughter alive. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past seven 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.440 years of making my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've 0:04:22.521 --> 0:04:25.080 learned that there's no such thing as a small town 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:29.080 where murder never happens. I have received hundreds of messages 0:04:29.121 --> 0:04:31.760 from people all around the country asking for help with 0:04:31.801 --> 0:04:35.921 an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families and their communities. 0:04:36.561 --> 0:04:38.440 If you have a case you'd like me and my 0:04:38.481 --> 0:04:40.801 team to look into, you can reach out to us 0:04:40.841 --> 0:04:43.400 at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven, eight 0:04:43.481 --> 0:04:46.721 seven even four four, six, one four or five. That's 0:04:46.721 --> 0:04:50.081 six seven eight seven four, four, six, one, four or five, 0:04:51.041 --> 0:04:53.801 or you can send us a message on Instagram at 0:04:53.921 --> 0:05:42.281 Helen Gonepod. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Police say 0:05:42.601 --> 0:05:44.961 Molly would have been alone at the beach at Commins 0:05:45.081 --> 0:05:48.761 Pond for no more than ten to fifteen minutes before 0:05:48.841 --> 0:05:52.401 the parents started arriving for their children's swimming lessons at 0:05:52.441 --> 0:05:55.961 around ten twenty am. A woman named Sandra Woodworth, who 0:05:56.001 --> 0:05:58.481 was one of the parents and her children showed up 0:05:58.521 --> 0:06:01.281 for the swimming lessons, but they noticed there was no 0:06:01.321 --> 0:06:05.481 one at the lifeguard station. Mollie was gone, but her 0:06:05.561 --> 0:06:08.961 stuff was still there. Mollie's backpack was there with her 0:06:09.001 --> 0:06:12.281 beeper inside it. Remember this was the pre cell phone era, 0:06:12.721 --> 0:06:17.161 so teenagers didn't go anywhere without their beeper and the 0:06:17.201 --> 0:06:19.721 first aid kit that she used was there and open. 0:06:20.561 --> 0:06:23.041 There was also a towel draped over the beach chair 0:06:23.161 --> 0:06:26.361 she was using. Her whistle was there, and so were 0:06:26.401 --> 0:06:30.761 her shoes and her poland Spring's water bottle. Mollie also 0:06:30.841 --> 0:06:33.721 had a radio, so every morning Mollie had to pick 0:06:33.841 --> 0:06:35.961 up her two way radio that she used at work 0:06:36.041 --> 0:06:40.801 from the police station. It was also sitting there. Mollie 0:06:40.841 --> 0:06:45.401 never showed up. At eleven am, Mollie's Bok Park's commissioner 0:06:45.601 --> 0:06:49.281 ed Fett showed up and Sandra told him Mollie was 0:06:49.321 --> 0:06:53.681 nowhere to be found. At first, people thought maybe Molly 0:06:53.721 --> 0:06:55.961 had just stepped away for a minute, since all of 0:06:55.961 --> 0:06:59.641 her stuff had been left behind pretty much undisturbed. The 0:06:59.681 --> 0:07:03.361 park's commissioner later told police that at first he thought 0:07:03.561 --> 0:07:06.761 Mollie may be in the water swimming, but when she 0:07:06.801 --> 0:07:10.961 didn't reappear at eleven forty four am, ed Fett called 0:07:10.961 --> 0:07:14.481 the Warren Police department. He called from Mollie's two way 0:07:14.561 --> 0:07:17.761 radio to report that she was missing. Since there were 0:07:17.801 --> 0:07:21.321 no signs of a struggle, the police didn't initially assume 0:07:21.441 --> 0:07:24.561 that Molly had been abducted. They also thought she might 0:07:24.601 --> 0:07:27.321 have ditched work. Maybe she was hanging out with her friends, 0:07:28.081 --> 0:07:31.161 or they even considered the possibility that she'd jumped in 0:07:31.201 --> 0:07:35.721 to go swimming and drowned. Mollie's sister, Heather told a 0:07:35.801 --> 0:07:39.041 journalist much later that, in addition to a delay in 0:07:39.081 --> 0:07:42.521 figuring out that this could be a potential abduction, the 0:07:42.561 --> 0:07:45.961 police were already that day. It was a small town 0:07:46.041 --> 0:07:49.481 with a small police force, and the night before one 0:07:49.521 --> 0:07:52.441 of Molly's friends had been hit by a car, so 0:07:52.521 --> 0:07:55.401 when they got the call about Molly, they were already 0:07:55.441 --> 0:08:00.481 occupied investigating that. But Molly's family points out they believe 0:08:00.521 --> 0:08:03.041 from the beginning they thought it was very unlikely that 0:08:03.081 --> 0:08:05.241 she would have left, because even if she did have 0:08:05.281 --> 0:08:07.841 to step away for some reason, why would she leave 0:08:07.881 --> 0:08:11.161 all of her stuff behind, and why was the first 0:08:11.201 --> 0:08:19.481 aid kit open. Finally, about three hours after Molly's shift started, 0:08:19.881 --> 0:08:23.321 State police showed up and called Molly's family. This was 0:08:23.361 --> 0:08:27.281 at around one thirty PM. That's when Molly's mother, Maggie, 0:08:27.321 --> 0:08:30.281 found out that her daughter was missing. Police talked to 0:08:30.281 --> 0:08:34.241 Maggie about her drive with Mollie and their morning routine. 0:08:34.441 --> 0:08:36.921 Maggie told them she and Molly had stopped by a 0:08:36.961 --> 0:08:40.601 local convenience store at nine to fifty am. The store's 0:08:40.641 --> 0:08:44.681 camera had Molly on camera in that storey water bottles. 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.361 At nine fifty six am, Maggie and Molly stopped by 0:08:48.361 --> 0:08:51.121 the local police station to pick up Molly's two way 0:08:51.241 --> 0:08:54.881 radio that she used for her lifeguarding job. At nine 0:08:55.001 --> 0:08:59.761 fifty eight am, they arrived at Cummens Pond. Maggie said 0:08:59.881 --> 0:09:02.841 that she noticed the parking lot was pretty much deserted 0:09:03.201 --> 0:09:06.001 and the beach was empty except for a dump truck 0:09:06.121 --> 0:09:09.321 that was dropping off a load of sand. Maggie drove 0:09:09.361 --> 0:09:13.721 off at exactly ten am. The police asked Maggie if 0:09:13.761 --> 0:09:16.721 she had seen anyone suspicious lately, and of course, she 0:09:16.881 --> 0:09:19.881 told them about the man in the white car who 0:09:19.921 --> 0:09:23.121 she saw the day before. She said that the man 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:25.921 was sitting alone in the parking lot, that the man 0:09:26.121 --> 0:09:28.801 was staring at Molly, and that at one point she 0:09:28.881 --> 0:09:30.481 had stared this man straight in the eye. 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:32.521 She explained to police she. 0:09:32.441 --> 0:09:34.481 Had waited for the guy to leave, which he did 0:09:34.481 --> 0:09:38.441 about twenty minutes later. Maggie clarified that while the guy 0:09:38.481 --> 0:09:41.440 had given her a creepy vibe, he had not been 0:09:41.521 --> 0:09:45.521 overtly threatening. She described him as being between the ages 0:09:45.601 --> 0:09:48.401 of maybe forty five and fifty five years old, with 0:09:48.521 --> 0:09:52.201 dark black and gray hair and a mustache. Once the 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:56.241 search started that afternoon, it mushroomed fast. Police had a 0:09:56.241 --> 0:09:59.641 ground search with around two hundred people scouring the woods, 0:10:00.161 --> 0:10:03.841 along with police dogs at the scene, helicopters, and police 0:10:03.881 --> 0:10:08.961 from elsewhere in the state. Unfortunately, because at first police 0:10:09.001 --> 0:10:12.321 didn't think this was an abduction, the crime scene was 0:10:12.441 --> 0:10:16.761 not secured properly. Dozens of people were walking through and 0:10:16.841 --> 0:10:20.681 around the area where Molly went missing, and they went 0:10:20.721 --> 0:10:25.401 through her stuff that was left behind. Police questioned a 0:10:25.441 --> 0:10:29.041 lot of people, including Molly's boyfriend at the time and 0:10:29.441 --> 0:10:32.641 people who were at the lake that day. Molly's family 0:10:32.721 --> 0:10:35.401 was adamant she would not have wandered away from her 0:10:35.441 --> 0:10:38.361 new job once she had taken many classes to get 0:10:38.401 --> 0:10:42.001 certifications for They also said they believed she was a 0:10:42.001 --> 0:10:47.721 strong swimmer and would not have Also, investigators started believing 0:10:47.921 --> 0:10:51.201 that she had never gotten into the water because when 0:10:51.201 --> 0:10:54.481 she arrived for her shift, Mollie was wearing a blue 0:10:54.481 --> 0:10:58.081 one piece bathing suit and shorts, and her shorts were 0:10:58.081 --> 0:11:02.561 nowhere to be found. Also, whatever happened to Molly had 0:11:02.601 --> 0:11:07.001 happened within a very narrow window of time. Mollie had 0:11:07.001 --> 0:11:09.521 not called into the police station at the start of 0:11:09.521 --> 0:11:13.241 her shift, which was her regular routine. It seemed as 0:11:13.241 --> 0:11:17.921 though something distracted her Right when she arrived. The next day, 0:11:18.121 --> 0:11:21.241 the police dogs alerted on Molly's scent near the pond 0:11:21.761 --> 0:11:24.681 and tracked it up a rocky steep path that led 0:11:24.681 --> 0:11:28.201 to a cemetery. Now this was a steep path with 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:30.921 a lot of rocks, so it seemed unlikely she would 0:11:31.001 --> 0:11:35.201 just wander up there, especially because her shoes were left 0:11:35.201 --> 0:11:39.241 behind at the pond. So did someone lure Molly up 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.761 there or incapacitate her somehow and take her there? 0:11:43.401 --> 0:11:43.961 And it so? 0:11:44.721 --> 0:11:48.081 Was it someone she knew or a stranger, But there 0:11:48.161 --> 0:11:52.241 was no sign of Mollie. Then the dogs lost the 0:11:52.321 --> 0:11:59.961 scent en route nineteen Mollie was popular in school and 0:12:00.041 --> 0:12:03.560 had no known enemies. Police considered a lot of possibilities 0:12:03.601 --> 0:12:06.761 about who could have taken her. They even wondered if 0:12:06.801 --> 0:12:09.201 it could be someone who was linked to Molly's father, 0:12:09.441 --> 0:12:13.361 John bish because John was a probation officer at the 0:12:13.361 --> 0:12:16.841 East Brookfield District Court. So they asked if someone would 0:12:16.841 --> 0:12:19.561 have been angry at him and maybe hurt Molly in 0:12:19.641 --> 0:12:23.481 retaliation for something John did, but that possibility was quickly 0:12:23.561 --> 0:12:29.241 ruled out. Police had no obvious suspect, and Molly's sister, Heather, 0:12:29.401 --> 0:12:32.801 said that the family started their own investigation. They were 0:12:32.801 --> 0:12:35.161 calling around to Molly's friends. They were trying to see 0:12:35.161 --> 0:12:39.521 if anyone had seen her during this time. Police stated 0:12:39.601 --> 0:12:43.121 they questioned hundreds of people and ten different people all 0:12:43.241 --> 0:12:46.841 failed by detector tests. It seemed like everyone was a 0:12:46.881 --> 0:12:51.281 suspect and the police seemed to be clueless. They talked 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:55.441 to Molly's boss, ed Fett. He told investigators that that morning, 0:12:55.481 --> 0:12:57.881 from around nine to fifty am until the time he 0:12:57.961 --> 0:13:00.800 arrived at the beach, he was painting a fence nearby 0:13:00.921 --> 0:13:04.521 with some volunteers. But it was reported elsewhere that John, 0:13:04.641 --> 0:13:07.721 Molly's brother, saw Ed feed at the hardware store at 0:13:07.801 --> 0:13:10.441 nine thirty am, and that Ed had shown up with 0:13:10.481 --> 0:13:13.241 the paint at Cutter Park at around nine to fifty am, 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:16.641 and then that he had left, so he may not 0:13:16.761 --> 0:13:21.081 have been in that park the entire time. However, there 0:13:21.121 --> 0:13:23.481 is no reason to suspect that ed Fett was in 0:13:23.561 --> 0:13:26.881 any way involved with Molly's disappearance. He was just one 0:13:26.881 --> 0:13:29.841 of the many people who were questioned by police, and 0:13:30.161 --> 0:13:33.041 one of many people whom it was reported in the media, 0:13:33.441 --> 0:13:37.081 failed a light detector test. Ed said to The Boston 0:13:37.081 --> 0:13:39.800 Globe quote, I was treated like a suspect. 0:13:39.841 --> 0:13:40.241 Back then. 0:13:40.681 --> 0:13:43.001 They checked out my story and found out that I 0:13:43.041 --> 0:13:47.641 had an alibi. Ed Fett said police had cleared him 0:13:47.681 --> 0:13:51.201 because of his alibi, and he said he had voluntarily 0:13:51.241 --> 0:13:55.241 submitted DNA along with a lot of other people. He 0:13:55.361 --> 0:13:57.961 said at the time he believed that police got his 0:13:58.081 --> 0:14:01.521 DNA because they wanted to build a large enough database 0:14:01.561 --> 0:14:06.281 to test against. Police continued hunting for a suspect, and 0:14:06.361 --> 0:14:08.881 they seemed to be focusing on the mysterious man with 0:14:08.921 --> 0:14:11.521 the mustache who was in the white car on the 0:14:11.601 --> 0:14:15.881 day Molly went missing. Maggie, Molly's mother, worked with a 0:14:15.881 --> 0:14:19.681 sketch artist. The sketch artist was actually the same person 0:14:19.761 --> 0:14:22.361 who did the very well known sketch of the unibomber. 0:14:23.281 --> 0:14:26.081 So Maggie and this sketch artist created a portrait of 0:14:26.121 --> 0:14:29.361 the suspect police were looking for. They offered one hundred 0:14:29.401 --> 0:14:32.801 thousand dollars reward. This brought in a ton of tips, 0:14:32.801 --> 0:14:35.961 but unfortunately it also led to a lot of dead 0:14:36.081 --> 0:14:40.721 ends for police. The sketch was very detailed, but the 0:14:40.801 --> 0:14:43.161 problem with it was that it looked like a lot 0:14:43.201 --> 0:14:47.121 of people. Also, the suspect could have shaved his mustache, 0:14:47.201 --> 0:14:51.601 which would have completely altered his appearance. Some witnesses told 0:14:51.601 --> 0:14:55.041 police they had seen a man matching this description around 0:14:55.041 --> 0:14:57.681 the area of the pond that day and at the 0:14:57.801 --> 0:15:00.161 end of the rocky trail that led to that cemetery, 0:15:00.921 --> 0:15:06.401 but these IDs were, to my knowledge, never confirmed. Investigators 0:15:06.441 --> 0:15:09.721 continued to track down Leeds, and according to media reports, 0:15:10.041 --> 0:15:12.881 they investigated around one hundred and twenty five men with 0:15:12.921 --> 0:15:17.601 white cars. One person police looked into who resembled the 0:15:17.601 --> 0:15:21.401 sketch was fifty two year old Oscar by Largen, who 0:15:21.441 --> 0:15:24.681 lived in the nearby town of Worcester. Oscar was convicted 0:15:24.721 --> 0:15:27.401 of raping a child and of indecent assault and battery 0:15:27.401 --> 0:15:31.561 in nineteen ninety one. He also had a tenuous connection 0:15:31.721 --> 0:15:35.321 to Molly. While attending his nephew's graduation party a few 0:15:35.321 --> 0:15:39.241 weeks before Molly vanished, he told police he had met 0:15:39.281 --> 0:15:42.481 Molly briefly, and, like many of the other men questioned 0:15:42.481 --> 0:15:46.561 by police, he had a mustache. Oscar was interviewed twice 0:15:46.681 --> 0:15:50.641 by the police about any involvement with Molly's disappearance. There 0:15:50.721 --> 0:15:54.081 was no concrete evidence found that he was involved, and 0:15:54.441 --> 0:15:59.121 he always denied any involvement in her disappearance. Police also 0:15:59.241 --> 0:16:02.641 canvassed the area. They interviewed local sex offenders, and they 0:16:02.681 --> 0:16:04.801 started to take a look at people who had similar 0:16:04.881 --> 0:16:08.521 charges against them, but the problem was this was a 0:16:08.641 --> 0:16:12.081 long list. Police also took a look at a local 0:16:12.161 --> 0:16:16.041 hunter and fisherman named Rodney Stanger. He lived locally and 0:16:16.121 --> 0:16:19.321 was convicted of murdering his girlfriend Cristeal Morrison in two 0:16:19.361 --> 0:16:23.721 thousand and eight. The police reportedly investigated Rodney after his 0:16:23.841 --> 0:16:27.921 girlfriend's sister told them that a week before Cristel died, 0:16:28.361 --> 0:16:32.361 she had told her sister Rodney allegedly killed both Mollie 0:16:32.641 --> 0:16:37.201 and another girl in Massachusetts. Rodney also had a connection 0:16:37.281 --> 0:16:40.681 with the area. He fished at Commons Pond, and according 0:16:40.681 --> 0:16:43.641 to media reports, he had also driven a white cart 0:16:43.801 --> 0:16:48.041 one time when Molly took classes at the YMCA to 0:16:48.081 --> 0:16:51.681 become a lifeguard. Rodney was living in an address just 0:16:51.721 --> 0:16:55.361 a few blocks away, but there was zero evidence that 0:16:55.441 --> 0:16:58.841 linked him in any direct way to Molly's murder. He 0:16:58.921 --> 0:17:01.881 was sentenced to twenty five years for Crystal's murder, but 0:17:02.041 --> 0:17:07.840 always denied any involvement in Molly's murder. In addition to 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:11.321 considering the possibility that this could have been a random stranger, 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.920 police also talked to people Molly knew. Police talked to 0:17:15.961 --> 0:17:20.401 her boyfriend at the time, Stephen Lucas. According to media reports, 0:17:20.761 --> 0:17:23.321 Stephen and Molly had gone to the prom together and 0:17:23.360 --> 0:17:25.481 they had dated for about three months at the time 0:17:25.521 --> 0:17:29.201 of her disappearance. On the day of Molly's disappearance, Stephen 0:17:29.241 --> 0:17:32.281 said that he was home when the police interviewed him, 0:17:32.441 --> 0:17:35.801 they noticed he had a swollen lip. He told police 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:37.880 he was getting out of bed and had stumbled and 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.720 bumped his lip on the bedroom door, but it was 0:17:40.761 --> 0:17:44.281 reported on medium dot com that another one of Stephen's 0:17:44.281 --> 0:17:45.481 friends said they were. 0:17:45.281 --> 0:17:47.161 Told he had a cold sore that day. 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:52.161 CNN also reported that Molly's family was surprised that Stephen 0:17:52.241 --> 0:17:54.840 did not show up at their house and that he 0:17:54.961 --> 0:17:59.241 was not actively participating in the search for Mollie. Whether 0:17:59.441 --> 0:18:01.961 or not he took and passed a lie detector test 0:18:02.281 --> 0:18:06.441 isn't known. Some media reports say he did pass. CNN 0:18:06.521 --> 0:18:09.201 reported he was asked to take a polygraph but declined. 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:14.200 Channel seven reported that police had questioned Stephen Lucas and 0:18:14.321 --> 0:18:18.080 he had given police a DNA sample. But we can't 0:18:18.121 --> 0:18:21.681 ask Stephen Lucas about Molly because he has also passed away. 0:18:22.321 --> 0:18:24.801 He died in two thousand and eight in a car accident. 0:18:25.721 --> 0:18:33.241 He was twenty five years old. Molly's family has gone 0:18:33.241 --> 0:18:36.001 on record as saying they do not believe that Stephen 0:18:36.121 --> 0:18:39.360 was the killer. They believe the killer was someone who 0:18:39.481 --> 0:18:42.761 was stalking Mollie, and they do not believe that the 0:18:42.881 --> 0:18:46.880 killer was someone Molly knew well. For a long time, 0:18:47.041 --> 0:18:51.041 Molly's case appeared to have gone completely cold until two 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:54.441 thousand and two. That year, a hunter in the town 0:18:54.481 --> 0:18:57.641 of Palmer, Massachusetts, which was about a twenty minute drive 0:18:57.721 --> 0:19:01.681 away from Warren, saw some blue bathing suit fabric out 0:19:01.721 --> 0:19:04.640 in the woods. At the time, it struck him as 0:19:04.681 --> 0:19:07.041 a bit weird. There was nothing attached to the fabric, 0:19:07.401 --> 0:19:09.961 but he didn't search or pick anything up at the time. 0:19:10.201 --> 0:19:11.401 He just went on with his day. 0:19:12.361 --> 0:19:15.921 Later, he told a friend of his named Tim McGuigan, 0:19:16.241 --> 0:19:19.080 a former police officer and later a true crime writer, 0:19:19.241 --> 0:19:22.360 about the bathing suit fabric he'd found, and Tim McGuigan 0:19:22.761 --> 0:19:27.001 called this tip in to the police, investigators started the search. 0:19:27.561 --> 0:19:32.481 Over two hundred searchers scoured that area. Then on June ninth, 0:19:32.521 --> 0:19:35.441 two thousand and three, they found remains in a wooded 0:19:35.481 --> 0:19:38.921 area about five miles from the pond where Molly disappeared. 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:56.961 These remains were later identified as Molly's. At the scene, 0:19:57.201 --> 0:20:01.281 searchers found twenty six of Molly's bones. Investigators said that 0:20:01.361 --> 0:20:04.840 due to the decomposition, they were unable to determine a 0:20:04.881 --> 0:20:07.920 definitive cause of death. This was also an area with 0:20:08.001 --> 0:20:11.721 a lot of wildlife, so this made recovery more difficult, 0:20:12.481 --> 0:20:15.600 but at least now Molly's family could lay her to rest, 0:20:16.161 --> 0:20:20.680 and investigators knew definitively that they were dealing with a homicide. 0:20:21.641 --> 0:20:25.001 Tim McGuigan, who reported the tip, was very familiar with 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.241 Molly's case. He had actually written a book about the 0:20:28.281 --> 0:20:31.681 abduction of a ten year old girl named Holly Parinan, 0:20:31.921 --> 0:20:35.041 and he ended up researching Molly's case because he believed 0:20:35.041 --> 0:20:40.041 there were some similarities between the two cases. Holly disappeared 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:44.321 in nineteen ninety three from Stourbridge, Massachusetts, Hollywood, visiting her 0:20:44.361 --> 0:20:47.481 grandmother's cottage. When she and her brother went to see 0:20:47.561 --> 0:20:51.200 a neighbor's puppies. Holly's brother came home without her and 0:20:51.281 --> 0:20:55.080 she was nowhere to be found. Hunters found her body 0:20:55.161 --> 0:20:58.921 two months later on October twenty third, nineteen ninety three, 0:20:59.241 --> 0:21:03.241 in a wooded area approximately five miles away. Holly's case 0:21:03.281 --> 0:21:07.201 made national news, and in the region that story was massive, 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:11.761 so many online. Commoners who live in Massachusetts say that 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:14.721 this was the first time as children they learned about 0:21:14.721 --> 0:21:20.401 stranger danger. Everyone knew about Holly's kidnapping, and strangely, there 0:21:20.681 --> 0:21:23.761 was a connection between Holly and Molly's cases. 0:21:24.601 --> 0:21:25.561 When she was taken. 0:21:25.721 --> 0:21:28.521 Holly was ten years old, the same age Molly was 0:21:28.561 --> 0:21:32.080 at the time, and Mollie had written Holly's parents a 0:21:32.161 --> 0:21:35.161 letter telling them that she was sorry about their daughter 0:21:35.241 --> 0:21:40.080 being missing. At some point, Tim told reporters he became 0:21:40.121 --> 0:21:41.360 obsessed with Holly's case. 0:21:41.801 --> 0:21:42.841 It affected his life. 0:21:42.961 --> 0:21:45.561 He was an alcohol and his drinking was getting more 0:21:45.681 --> 0:21:49.401 and more out of control. His boss has criticized what 0:21:49.441 --> 0:21:52.241 they considered to be his over involvement in the case, 0:21:52.801 --> 0:21:57.401 and eventually he left the police force. He saw similarities 0:21:57.441 --> 0:22:01.681 between Holly Purinan's case and Molly Bsh's case, so he 0:22:01.881 --> 0:22:06.041 contacted Molly's family and asked for permission to look into 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:06.840 her case. 0:22:06.601 --> 0:22:08.201 As well, and they agreed. 0:22:08.961 --> 0:22:14.161 But later Tim would become a controversial character in this story. 0:22:14.241 --> 0:22:15.521 After the bathing. 0:22:15.161 --> 0:22:18.880 Suit led to Molly's remains. Tim later tried to claim 0:22:18.881 --> 0:22:21.681 the one hundred thousand dollars reward, but it was denied 0:22:22.361 --> 0:22:26.401 and he ended up suing the Worcester District Attorney's office. 0:22:26.441 --> 0:22:30.080 Tim argued he was responsible for leading investigators to that 0:22:30.161 --> 0:22:34.001 bathing suit evidence which led directly to Molly's body being recovered. 0:22:34.521 --> 0:22:37.281 So his argument was that some of the missing posters 0:22:37.321 --> 0:22:40.641 stated the reward would be paid for information leading to Molly, 0:22:41.201 --> 0:22:43.960 but the DA's office stated those posters were for a 0:22:43.961 --> 0:22:48.241 private organization. They said their posters had been very specific 0:22:48.321 --> 0:22:51.521 they would only pay out if the information given led 0:22:51.561 --> 0:22:56.481 to an arrest and a conviction, which has not happened yet. Eventually, 0:22:56.641 --> 0:23:01.481 Tim's lawsuit was dismissed. Tim mcgwigan testified that the lawsuit 0:23:01.521 --> 0:23:04.321 for him was not about the money, but about helping 0:23:04.401 --> 0:23:08.521 solve the case, and in a crazy twist, police actually 0:23:08.561 --> 0:23:12.161 considered Tim a person of interest. At one point, police 0:23:12.201 --> 0:23:15.241 gave him a polygraph test which it was reported that 0:23:15.361 --> 0:23:19.601 he passed later, Molly's mother said she regretted the way 0:23:19.641 --> 0:23:22.561 that Tim mcgwigan was treated. She said while a court 0:23:22.601 --> 0:23:25.401 may have decided that Tim couldn't collect the reward because 0:23:25.441 --> 0:23:29.360 that tip hadn't technically solved the case, she appreciated the 0:23:29.481 --> 0:23:34.801 crucial role that he played in helping find Molly's body. 0:23:35.761 --> 0:23:39.961 Holly Paranan and Molly Bush's case had some other strange connections. 0:23:40.601 --> 0:23:43.921 In twenty twelve, police did hold a press comfort It's 0:23:44.001 --> 0:23:46.880 for Holly's case. They said they were looking for the 0:23:46.881 --> 0:23:50.001 public's help in getting information about a person of interest 0:23:50.361 --> 0:23:54.201 named David Puoliocht. They were seeking information on this person 0:23:54.281 --> 0:23:57.881 in connection with Holly's abduction and murder. David had worked 0:23:57.881 --> 0:24:00.241 as a carpenter at one point. He also worked at 0:24:00.241 --> 0:24:03.041 a juvenile detention center and was in the Coastguard. He 0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:06.801 was a fisherman and a hunter. The district attorney stated 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:09.880 at the press conference that new forensic evidence in the 0:24:09.921 --> 0:24:13.360 area where Holly's remains were found had what they called 0:24:13.401 --> 0:24:16.041 a link to David. They said they found a match 0:24:16.161 --> 0:24:20.001 to his DNA close to, but not right by, Holly's remains. 0:24:20.721 --> 0:24:23.961 The district attorney said, quote the nature of the items 0:24:23.961 --> 0:24:28.681 suggests either mister Puliocht or people associated with him were 0:24:28.801 --> 0:24:31.521 in the area at a time relevant to the disappearance 0:24:31.561 --> 0:24:35.921 of Holly and the discovery of her remains end quote. 0:24:36.001 --> 0:24:39.601 At the press conference, they showed photographs of David and 0:24:40.080 --> 0:24:42.561 he had a heavy mustache and looked a lot like 0:24:42.641 --> 0:24:47.041 the sketch created in Molly's case. So could David have 0:24:47.161 --> 0:24:52.961 been involved in Molly Bush's death? Unfortunately, investigators couldn't bring 0:24:53.041 --> 0:24:56.561 David in for questioning for Holly or Molly's case because 0:24:56.601 --> 0:24:59.201 he died years earlier in August of two thousand and 0:24:59.241 --> 0:25:06.001 three a congestive heart failure and hypertension. To this day, 0:25:06.481 --> 0:25:10.681 Holly Paranin's murder has never been solved, and even after 0:25:10.761 --> 0:25:15.161 finding Molly's body, investigators seemed no closer to identifying a 0:25:15.281 --> 0:25:20.161 suspect in Molly's murder. So who took Molly that day? 0:25:20.681 --> 0:25:24.681 Was it someone she knew or a stranger? Her father, 0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:28.080 John told New England dot Com in twenty sixteen that 0:25:28.201 --> 0:25:32.881 he believed that Molly's kidnapping and murder were planned. He said, quote, 0:25:33.241 --> 0:25:36.120 what we think happened is someone had stalked her. He 0:25:36.201 --> 0:25:38.841 had a very short window of time to get to her. 0:25:39.161 --> 0:25:40.481 He knew what he was doing. 0:25:40.961 --> 0:25:44.241 He probably feigned injury, maybe a hook in his finger. 0:25:44.921 --> 0:25:47.641 While she opened the first aid kit he got her 0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:51.640