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Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold

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Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite

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Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially

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Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights

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Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be

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Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts

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Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has

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Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

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Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply

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Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime

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Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 2: On June twenty seventh, two thousand, Maggie Bish drove her

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Speaker 2: sixteen year old daughter, Molly and Bish to her job

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Speaker 2: lifeguarding at Commons Pond in the town of Warren, Massachusetts.

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Speaker 2: Ellie was excited about her new job, which she had

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Speaker 2: just started eight days earlier. Mollie came from a close

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Speaker 2: knit family. She grew up with her mom Maggie, her

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Speaker 2: dad John, her sister Heather, and her brother John Junior.

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Speaker 2: Mollie was the baby of the family. According to New

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Speaker 2: England dot Com, Molly's father, John, had been living in

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Speaker 2: Detroit and was on track to become a priest when

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Speaker 2: he met and fell in love with Maggie. Then he

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Speaker 2: left seminary and they got married. The newlyweds relocated to

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Speaker 2: Warren because it was John's hometown and because they believed

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Speaker 2: that it would be a safe place to raise a family,

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Speaker 2: and for a long time it was. Maggie was a

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Speaker 2: first grade teacher, John was a probation officer. Mollie's brother,

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Speaker 2: John Junior, also worked as a lifeguard at Commons Pond.

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Speaker 2: He actually trained Mollie during her first six days on

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Speaker 2: the job before she started lifeguarding and teaching swimming lessons

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Speaker 2: to children on her own. At school, Molly was on

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Speaker 2: the Hona roll. She had just been to her first prom,

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Speaker 2: and she was looking forward to starting her senior year.

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Speaker 2: She was athletic and played soccer, basketball, and softball. Her

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Speaker 2: obituary red quote, funny and social, Molly loved everyone. She

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Speaker 2: was a blend of lucy and forst gump end quote.

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Speaker 2: Maggie and Molly had a routine. Maggie dropped Molly off

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Speaker 2: at work every day. She would later tell police that

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Speaker 2: the day before on June twenty six, when she dropped

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Speaker 2: Molly off at work, she saw something weird in the

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Speaker 2: parking lot. She noticed a man with a mustache smoking

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Speaker 2: a cigarette. He was driving a white sedan, and this

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Speaker 2: man was staring at Molly and at one point, Maggie said,

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Speaker 2: she looked over at this man and locked eyes with him.

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Speaker 2: Maggie said there was nothing overtly threatening about the guy,

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Speaker 2: but as a mother, he made the hair on the

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Speaker 2: back of her neck stand up. She was so unnerve

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Speaker 2: that on June twenty six she waited for about twenty

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Speaker 2: minutes until the mustache stranger drove away. The next morning,

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Speaker 2: on June twenty seventh, she didn't see any sign of

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Speaker 2: the creepy stranger, so she felt safe dropping Mollie off

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Speaker 2: at work.

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Speaker 3: When Mollie got out of the car.

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Speaker 2: Ahead of the beach that day, her mother later told

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Speaker 2: CBS that Mollie's last words to her were.

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Speaker 3: I love you, Mom.

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Speaker 2: That was the last time that Maggie bish ever saw

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Speaker 2: her daughter alive. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past seven

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Speaker 2: years of making my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've

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Speaker 2: learned that there's no such thing as a small town

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Speaker 2: where murder never happens. I have received hundreds of messages

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Speaker 2: from people all around the country asking for help with

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Speaker 2: an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families and their communities.

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Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my

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Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us

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Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven, eight

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Speaker 2: seven even four four, six, one four or five. That's

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Speaker 2: six seven eight seven four, four, six, one, four or five,

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Speaker 2: or you can send us a message on Instagram at

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Speaker 2: Helen Gonepod. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Police say

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Speaker 2: Molly would have been alone at the beach at Commins

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Speaker 2: Pond for no more than ten to fifteen minutes before

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Speaker 2: the parents started arriving for their children's swimming lessons at

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Speaker 2: around ten twenty am. A woman named Sandra Woodworth, who

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Speaker 2: was one of the parents and her children showed up

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Speaker 2: for the swimming lessons, but they noticed there was no

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Speaker 2: one at the lifeguard station. Mollie was gone, but her

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Speaker 2: stuff was still there. Mollie's backpack was there with her

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Speaker 2: beeper inside it. Remember this was the pre cell phone era,

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Speaker 2: so teenagers didn't go anywhere without their beeper and the

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Speaker 2: first aid kit that she used was there and open.

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Speaker 2: There was also a towel draped over the beach chair

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Speaker 2: she was using. Her whistle was there, and so were

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Speaker 2: her shoes and her poland Spring's water bottle. Mollie also

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Speaker 2: had a radio, so every morning Mollie had to pick

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Speaker 2: up her two way radio that she used at work

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Speaker 2: from the police station. It was also sitting there. Mollie

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Speaker 2: never showed up. At eleven am, Mollie's Bok Park's commissioner

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Speaker 2: ed Fett showed up and Sandra told him Mollie was

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Speaker 2: nowhere to be found. At first, people thought maybe Molly

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Speaker 2: had just stepped away for a minute, since all of

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Speaker 2: her stuff had been left behind pretty much undisturbed. The

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Speaker 2: park's commissioner later told police that at first he thought

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Speaker 2: Mollie may be in the water swimming, but when she

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Speaker 2: didn't reappear at eleven forty four am, ed Fett called

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Speaker 2: the Warren Police department. He called from Mollie's two way

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Speaker 2: radio to report that she was missing. Since there were

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Speaker 2: no signs of a struggle, the police didn't initially assume

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Speaker 2: that Molly had been abducted. They also thought she might

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Speaker 2: have ditched work. Maybe she was hanging out with her friends,

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Speaker 2: or they even considered the possibility that she'd jumped in

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Speaker 2: to go swimming and drowned. Mollie's sister, Heather told a

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Speaker 2: journalist much later that, in addition to a delay in

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Speaker 2: figuring out that this could be a potential abduction, the

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Speaker 2: police were already that day. It was a small town

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Speaker 2: with a small police force, and the night before one

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Speaker 2: of Molly's friends had been hit by a car, so

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Speaker 2: when they got the call about Molly, they were already

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Speaker 2: occupied investigating that. But Molly's family points out they believe

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Speaker 2: from the beginning they thought it was very unlikely that

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Speaker 2: she would have left, because even if she did have

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Speaker 2: to step away for some reason, why would she leave

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Speaker 2: all of her stuff behind, and why was the first

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Speaker 2: aid kit open. Finally, about three hours after Molly's shift started,

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Speaker 2: State police showed up and called Molly's family. This was

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Speaker 2: at around one thirty PM. That's when Molly's mother, Maggie,

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Speaker 2: found out that her daughter was missing. Police talked to

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Speaker 2: Maggie about her drive with Mollie and their morning routine.

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Speaker 2: Maggie told them she and Molly had stopped by a

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Speaker 2: local convenience store at nine to fifty am. The store's

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Speaker 2: camera had Molly on camera in that storey water bottles.

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Speaker 2: At nine fifty six am, Maggie and Molly stopped by

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Speaker 2: the local police station to pick up Molly's two way

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Speaker 2: radio that she used for her lifeguarding job. At nine

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Speaker 2: fifty eight am, they arrived at Cummens Pond. Maggie said

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Speaker 2: that she noticed the parking lot was pretty much deserted

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Speaker 2: and the beach was empty except for a dump truck

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Speaker 2: that was dropping off a load of sand. Maggie drove

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Speaker 2: off at exactly ten am. The police asked Maggie if

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Speaker 2: she had seen anyone suspicious lately, and of course, she

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Speaker 2: told them about the man in the white car who

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Speaker 2: she saw the day before. She said that the man

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Speaker 2: was sitting alone in the parking lot, that the man

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Speaker 2: was staring at Molly, and that at one point she

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Speaker 2: had stared this man straight in the eye.

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Speaker 3: She explained to police she.

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Speaker 2: Had waited for the guy to leave, which he did

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Speaker 2: about twenty minutes later. Maggie clarified that while the guy

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Speaker 2: had given her a creepy vibe, he had not been

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Speaker 2: overtly threatening. She described him as being between the ages

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Speaker 2: of maybe forty five and fifty five years old, with

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Speaker 2: dark black and gray hair and a mustache. Once the

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Speaker 2: search started that afternoon, it mushroomed fast. Police had a

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Speaker 2: ground search with around two hundred people scouring the woods,

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Speaker 2: along with police dogs at the scene, helicopters, and police

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Speaker 2: from elsewhere in the state. Unfortunately, because at first police

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Speaker 2: didn't think this was an abduction, the crime scene was

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Speaker 2: not secured properly. Dozens of people were walking through and

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Speaker 2: around the area where Molly went missing, and they went

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Speaker 2: through her stuff that was left behind. Police questioned a

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Speaker 2: lot of people, including Molly's boyfriend at the time and

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Speaker 2: people who were at the lake that day. Molly's family

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Speaker 2: was adamant she would not have wandered away from her

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Speaker 2: new job once she had taken many classes to get

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Speaker 2: certifications for They also said they believed she was a

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Speaker 2: strong swimmer and would not have Also, investigators started believing

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Speaker 2: that she had never gotten into the water because when

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Speaker 2: she arrived for her shift, Mollie was wearing a blue

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Speaker 2: one piece bathing suit and shorts, and her shorts were

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Speaker 2: nowhere to be found. Also, whatever happened to Molly had

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Speaker 2: happened within a very narrow window of time. Mollie had

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Speaker 2: not called into the police station at the start of

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Speaker 2: her shift, which was her regular routine. It seemed as

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Speaker 2: though something distracted her Right when she arrived. The next day,

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Speaker 2: the police dogs alerted on Molly's scent near the pond

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Speaker 2: and tracked it up a rocky steep path that led

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Speaker 2: to a cemetery. Now this was a steep path with

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Speaker 2: a lot of rocks, so it seemed unlikely she would

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Speaker 2: just wander up there, especially because her shoes were left

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Speaker 2: behind at the pond. So did someone lure Molly up

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Speaker 2: there or incapacitate her somehow and take her there?

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Speaker 3: And it so?

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Speaker 2: Was it someone she knew or a stranger, But there

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Speaker 2: was no sign of Mollie. Then the dogs lost the

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Speaker 2: scent en route nineteen Mollie was popular in school and

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Speaker 2: had no known enemies. Police considered a lot of possibilities

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Speaker 2: about who could have taken her. They even wondered if

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Speaker 2: it could be someone who was linked to Molly's father,

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Speaker 2: John bish because John was a probation officer at the

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Speaker 2: East Brookfield District Court. So they asked if someone would

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Speaker 2: have been angry at him and maybe hurt Molly in

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Speaker 2: retaliation for something John did, but that possibility was quickly

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Speaker 2: ruled out. Police had no obvious suspect, and Molly's sister, Heather,

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Speaker 2: said that the family started their own investigation. They were

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Speaker 2: calling around to Molly's friends. They were trying to see

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Speaker 2: if anyone had seen her during this time. Police stated

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Speaker 2: they questioned hundreds of people and ten different people all

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Speaker 2: failed by detector tests. It seemed like everyone was a

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Speaker 2: suspect and the police seemed to be clueless. They talked

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Speaker 2: to Molly's boss, ed Fett. He told investigators that that morning,

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Speaker 2: from around nine to fifty am until the time he

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Speaker 2: arrived at the beach, he was painting a fence nearby

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Speaker 2: with some volunteers. But it was reported elsewhere that John,

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Speaker 2: Molly's brother, saw Ed feed at the hardware store at

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Speaker 2: nine thirty am, and that Ed had shown up with

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Speaker 2: the paint at Cutter Park at around nine to fifty am,

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Speaker 2: and then that he had left, so he may not

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Speaker 2: have been in that park the entire time. However, there

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Speaker 2: is no reason to suspect that ed Fett was in

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Speaker 2: any way involved with Molly's disappearance. He was just one

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Speaker 2: of the many people who were questioned by police, and

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Speaker 2: one of many people whom it was reported in the media,

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Speaker 2: failed a light detector test. Ed said to The Boston

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Speaker 2: Globe quote, I was treated like a suspect.

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Speaker 3: Back then.

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Speaker 2: They checked out my story and found out that I

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Speaker 2: had an alibi. Ed Fett said police had cleared him

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Speaker 2: because of his alibi, and he said he had voluntarily

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Speaker 2: submitted DNA along with a lot of other people. He

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Speaker 2: said at the time he believed that police got his

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Speaker 2: DNA because they wanted to build a large enough database

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Speaker 2: to test against. Police continued hunting for a suspect, and

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Speaker 2: they seemed to be focusing on the mysterious man with

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Speaker 2: the mustache who was in the white car on the

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Speaker 2: day Molly went missing. Maggie, Molly's mother, worked with a

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Speaker 2: sketch artist. The sketch artist was actually the same person

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Speaker 2: who did the very well known sketch of the unibomber.

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Speaker 2: So Maggie and this sketch artist created a portrait of

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Speaker 2: the suspect police were looking for. They offered one hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars reward. This brought in a ton of tips,

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Speaker 2: but unfortunately it also led to a lot of dead

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Speaker 2: ends for police. The sketch was very detailed, but the

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Speaker 2: problem with it was that it looked like a lot

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Speaker 2: of people. Also, the suspect could have shaved his mustache,

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Speaker 2: which would have completely altered his appearance. Some witnesses told

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Speaker 2: police they had seen a man matching this description around

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Speaker 2: the area of the pond that day and at the

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Speaker 2: end of the rocky trail that led to that cemetery,

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Speaker 2: but these IDs were, to my knowledge, never confirmed. Investigators

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Speaker 2: continued to track down Leeds, and according to media reports,

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00:15:10,041 --> 00:15:12,881
Speaker 2: they investigated around one hundred and twenty five men with

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Speaker 2: white cars. One person police looked into who resembled the

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Speaker 2: sketch was fifty two year old Oscar by Largen, who

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Speaker 2: lived in the nearby town of Worcester. Oscar was convicted

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Speaker 2: of raping a child and of indecent assault and battery

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00:15:27,401 --> 00:15:31,561
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety one. He also had a tenuous connection

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Speaker 2: to Molly. While attending his nephew's graduation party a few

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Speaker 2: weeks before Molly vanished, he told police he had met

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Speaker 2: Molly briefly, and, like many of the other men questioned

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Speaker 2: by police, he had a mustache. Oscar was interviewed twice

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00:15:46,681 --> 00:15:50,641
Speaker 2: by the police about any involvement with Molly's disappearance. There

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00:15:50,721 --> 00:15:54,081
Speaker 2: was no concrete evidence found that he was involved, and

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00:15:54,441 --> 00:15:59,121
Speaker 2: he always denied any involvement in her disappearance. Police also

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Speaker 2: canvassed the area. They interviewed local sex offenders, and they

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00:16:02,681 --> 00:16:04,801
Speaker 2: started to take a look at people who had similar

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Speaker 2: charges against them, but the problem was this was a

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Speaker 2: long list. Police also took a look at a local

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Speaker 2: hunter and fisherman named Rodney Stanger. He lived locally and

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00:16:16,121 --> 00:16:19,321
Speaker 2: was convicted of murdering his girlfriend Cristeal Morrison in two

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00:16:19,361 --> 00:16:23,721
Speaker 2: thousand and eight. The police reportedly investigated Rodney after his

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Speaker 2: girlfriend's sister told them that a week before Cristel died,

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Speaker 2: she had told her sister Rodney allegedly killed both Mollie

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00:16:32,641 --> 00:16:37,201
Speaker 2: and another girl in Massachusetts. Rodney also had a connection

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Speaker 2: with the area. He fished at Commons Pond, and according

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00:16:40,681 --> 00:16:43,641
Speaker 2: to media reports, he had also driven a white cart

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00:16:43,801 --> 00:16:48,041
Speaker 2: one time when Molly took classes at the YMCA to

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00:16:48,081 --> 00:16:51,681
Speaker 2: become a lifeguard. Rodney was living in an address just

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00:16:51,721 --> 00:16:55,361
Speaker 2: a few blocks away, but there was zero evidence that

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00:16:55,441 --> 00:16:58,841
Speaker 2: linked him in any direct way to Molly's murder. He

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00:16:58,921 --> 00:17:01,881
Speaker 2: was sentenced to twenty five years for Crystal's murder, but

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00:17:02,041 --> 00:17:07,840
Speaker 2: always denied any involvement in Molly's murder. In addition to

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00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,321
Speaker 2: considering the possibility that this could have been a random stranger,

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00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,920
Speaker 2: police also talked to people Molly knew. Police talked to

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00:17:15,961 --> 00:17:20,401
Speaker 2: her boyfriend at the time, Stephen Lucas. According to media reports,

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Speaker 2: Stephen and Molly had gone to the prom together and

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00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:25,481
Speaker 2: they had dated for about three months at the time

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00:17:25,521 --> 00:17:29,201
Speaker 2: of her disappearance. On the day of Molly's disappearance, Stephen

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00:17:29,241 --> 00:17:32,281
Speaker 2: said that he was home when the police interviewed him,

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Speaker 2: they noticed he had a swollen lip. He told police

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Speaker 2: he was getting out of bed and had stumbled and

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00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,720
Speaker 2: bumped his lip on the bedroom door, but it was

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00:17:40,761 --> 00:17:44,281
Speaker 2: reported on medium dot com that another one of Stephen's

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Speaker 2: friends said they were.

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Speaker 3: Told he had a cold sore that day.

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Speaker 2: CNN also reported that Molly's family was surprised that Stephen

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Speaker 2: did not show up at their house and that he

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00:17:54,961 --> 00:17:59,241
Speaker 2: was not actively participating in the search for Mollie. Whether

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00:17:59,441 --> 00:18:01,961
Speaker 2: or not he took and passed a lie detector test

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00:18:02,281 --> 00:18:06,441
Speaker 2: isn't known. Some media reports say he did pass. CNN

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00:18:06,521 --> 00:18:09,201
Speaker 2: reported he was asked to take a polygraph but declined.

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00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:14,200
Speaker 2: Channel seven reported that police had questioned Stephen Lucas and

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Speaker 2: he had given police a DNA sample. But we can't

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00:18:18,121 --> 00:18:21,681
Speaker 2: ask Stephen Lucas about Molly because he has also passed away.

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Speaker 2: He died in two thousand and eight in a car accident.

285
00:18:25,721 --> 00:18:33,241
Speaker 2: He was twenty five years old. Molly's family has gone

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00:18:33,241 --> 00:18:36,001
Speaker 2: on record as saying they do not believe that Stephen

287
00:18:36,121 --> 00:18:39,360
Speaker 2: was the killer. They believe the killer was someone who

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00:18:39,481 --> 00:18:42,761
Speaker 2: was stalking Mollie, and they do not believe that the

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00:18:42,881 --> 00:18:46,880
Speaker 2: killer was someone Molly knew well. For a long time,

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00:18:47,041 --> 00:18:51,041
Speaker 2: Molly's case appeared to have gone completely cold until two

291
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,441
Speaker 2: thousand and two. That year, a hunter in the town

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Speaker 2: of Palmer, Massachusetts, which was about a twenty minute drive

293
00:18:57,721 --> 00:19:01,681
Speaker 2: away from Warren, saw some blue bathing suit fabric out

294
00:19:01,721 --> 00:19:04,640
Speaker 2: in the woods. At the time, it struck him as

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00:19:04,681 --> 00:19:07,041
Speaker 2: a bit weird. There was nothing attached to the fabric,

296
00:19:07,401 --> 00:19:09,961
Speaker 2: but he didn't search or pick anything up at the time.

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00:19:10,201 --> 00:19:11,401
Speaker 3: He just went on with his day.

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Speaker 2: Later, he told a friend of his named Tim McGuigan,

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00:19:16,241 --> 00:19:19,080
Speaker 2: a former police officer and later a true crime writer,

300
00:19:19,241 --> 00:19:22,360
Speaker 2: about the bathing suit fabric he'd found, and Tim McGuigan

301
00:19:22,761 --> 00:19:27,001
Speaker 2: called this tip in to the police, investigators started the search.

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00:19:27,561 --> 00:19:32,481
Speaker 2: Over two hundred searchers scoured that area. Then on June ninth,

303
00:19:32,521 --> 00:19:35,441
Speaker 2: two thousand and three, they found remains in a wooded

304
00:19:35,481 --> 00:19:38,921
Speaker 2: area about five miles from the pond where Molly disappeared.

305
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:56,961
Speaker 2: These remains were later identified as Molly's. At the scene,

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00:19:57,201 --> 00:20:01,281
Speaker 2: searchers found twenty six of Molly's bones. Investigators said that

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00:20:01,361 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 2: due to the decomposition, they were unable to determine a

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00:20:04,881 --> 00:20:07,920
Speaker 2: definitive cause of death. This was also an area with

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00:20:08,001 --> 00:20:11,721
Speaker 2: a lot of wildlife, so this made recovery more difficult,

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00:20:12,481 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 2: but at least now Molly's family could lay her to rest,

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00:20:16,161 --> 00:20:20,680
Speaker 2: and investigators knew definitively that they were dealing with a homicide.

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00:20:21,641 --> 00:20:25,001
Speaker 2: Tim McGuigan, who reported the tip, was very familiar with

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Speaker 2: Molly's case. He had actually written a book about the

314
00:20:28,281 --> 00:20:31,681
Speaker 2: abduction of a ten year old girl named Holly Parinan,

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00:20:31,921 --> 00:20:35,041
Speaker 2: and he ended up researching Molly's case because he believed

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00:20:35,041 --> 00:20:40,041
Speaker 2: there were some similarities between the two cases. Holly disappeared

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00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,321
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety three from Stourbridge, Massachusetts, Hollywood, visiting her

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Speaker 2: grandmother's cottage. When she and her brother went to see

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00:20:47,561 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 2: a neighbor's puppies. Holly's brother came home without her and

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00:20:51,281 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 2: she was nowhere to be found. Hunters found her body

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00:20:55,161 --> 00:20:58,921
Speaker 2: two months later on October twenty third, nineteen ninety three,

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00:20:59,241 --> 00:21:03,241
Speaker 2: in a wooded area approximately five miles away. Holly's case

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00:21:03,281 --> 00:21:07,201
Speaker 2: made national news, and in the region that story was massive,

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00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,761
Speaker 2: so many online. Commoners who live in Massachusetts say that

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00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,721
Speaker 2: this was the first time as children they learned about

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00:21:14,721 --> 00:21:20,401
Speaker 2: stranger danger. Everyone knew about Holly's kidnapping, and strangely, there

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00:21:20,681 --> 00:21:23,761
Speaker 2: was a connection between Holly and Molly's cases.

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Speaker 3: When she was taken.

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00:21:25,721 --> 00:21:28,521
Speaker 2: Holly was ten years old, the same age Molly was

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Speaker 2: at the time, and Mollie had written Holly's parents a

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Speaker 2: letter telling them that she was sorry about their daughter

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00:21:35,241 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 2: being missing. At some point, Tim told reporters he became

333
00:21:40,121 --> 00:21:41,360
Speaker 2: obsessed with Holly's case.

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Speaker 3: It affected his life.

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00:21:42,961 --> 00:21:45,561
Speaker 2: He was an alcohol and his drinking was getting more

336
00:21:45,681 --> 00:21:49,401
Speaker 2: and more out of control. His boss has criticized what

337
00:21:49,441 --> 00:21:52,241
Speaker 2: they considered to be his over involvement in the case,

338
00:21:52,801 --> 00:21:57,401
Speaker 2: and eventually he left the police force. He saw similarities

339
00:21:57,441 --> 00:22:01,681
Speaker 2: between Holly Purinan's case and Molly Bsh's case, so he

340
00:22:01,881 --> 00:22:06,041
Speaker 2: contacted Molly's family and asked for permission to look into

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Speaker 2: her case.

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00:22:06,601 --> 00:22:08,201
Speaker 3: As well, and they agreed.

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Speaker 2: But later Tim would become a controversial character in this story.

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Speaker 3: After the bathing.

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00:22:15,161 --> 00:22:18,880
Speaker 2: Suit led to Molly's remains. Tim later tried to claim

346
00:22:18,881 --> 00:22:21,681
Speaker 2: the one hundred thousand dollars reward, but it was denied

347
00:22:22,361 --> 00:22:26,401
Speaker 2: and he ended up suing the Worcester District Attorney's office.

348
00:22:26,441 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 2: Tim argued he was responsible for leading investigators to that

349
00:22:30,161 --> 00:22:34,001
Speaker 2: bathing suit evidence which led directly to Molly's body being recovered.

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00:22:34,521 --> 00:22:37,281
Speaker 2: So his argument was that some of the missing posters

351
00:22:37,321 --> 00:22:40,641
Speaker 2: stated the reward would be paid for information leading to Molly,

352
00:22:41,201 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 2: but the DA's office stated those posters were for a

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00:22:43,961 --> 00:22:48,241
Speaker 2: private organization. They said their posters had been very specific

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00:22:48,321 --> 00:22:51,521
Speaker 2: they would only pay out if the information given led

355
00:22:51,561 --> 00:22:56,481
Speaker 2: to an arrest and a conviction, which has not happened yet. Eventually,

356
00:22:56,641 --> 00:23:01,481
Speaker 2: Tim's lawsuit was dismissed. Tim mcgwigan testified that the lawsuit

357
00:23:01,521 --> 00:23:04,321
Speaker 2: for him was not about the money, but about helping

358
00:23:04,401 --> 00:23:08,521
Speaker 2: solve the case, and in a crazy twist, police actually

359
00:23:08,561 --> 00:23:12,161
Speaker 2: considered Tim a person of interest. At one point, police

360
00:23:12,201 --> 00:23:15,241
Speaker 2: gave him a polygraph test which it was reported that

361
00:23:15,361 --> 00:23:19,601
Speaker 2: he passed later, Molly's mother said she regretted the way

362
00:23:19,641 --> 00:23:22,561
Speaker 2: that Tim mcgwigan was treated. She said while a court

363
00:23:22,601 --> 00:23:25,401
Speaker 2: may have decided that Tim couldn't collect the reward because

364
00:23:25,441 --> 00:23:29,360
Speaker 2: that tip hadn't technically solved the case, she appreciated the

365
00:23:29,481 --> 00:23:34,801
Speaker 2: crucial role that he played in helping find Molly's body.

366
00:23:35,761 --> 00:23:39,961
Speaker 2: Holly Paranan and Molly Bush's case had some other strange connections.

367
00:23:40,601 --> 00:23:43,921
Speaker 2: In twenty twelve, police did hold a press comfort It's

368
00:23:44,001 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 2: for Holly's case. They said they were looking for the

369
00:23:46,881 --> 00:23:50,001
Speaker 2: public's help in getting information about a person of interest

370
00:23:50,361 --> 00:23:54,201
Speaker 2: named David Puoliocht. They were seeking information on this person

371
00:23:54,281 --> 00:23:57,881
Speaker 2: in connection with Holly's abduction and murder. David had worked

372
00:23:57,881 --> 00:24:00,241
Speaker 2: as a carpenter at one point. He also worked at

373
00:24:00,241 --> 00:24:03,041
Speaker 2: a juvenile detention center and was in the Coastguard. He

374
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,801
Speaker 2: was a fisherman and a hunter. The district attorney stated

375
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 2: at the press conference that new forensic evidence in the

376
00:24:09,921 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 2: area where Holly's remains were found had what they called

377
00:24:13,401 --> 00:24:16,041
Speaker 2: a link to David. They said they found a match

378
00:24:16,161 --> 00:24:20,001
Speaker 2: to his DNA close to, but not right by, Holly's remains.

379
00:24:20,721 --> 00:24:23,961
Speaker 2: The district attorney said, quote the nature of the items

380
00:24:23,961 --> 00:24:28,681
Speaker 2: suggests either mister Puliocht or people associated with him were

381
00:24:28,801 --> 00:24:31,521
Speaker 2: in the area at a time relevant to the disappearance

382
00:24:31,561 --> 00:24:35,921
Speaker 2: of Holly and the discovery of her remains end quote.

383
00:24:36,001 --> 00:24:39,601
Speaker 2: At the press conference, they showed photographs of David and

384
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,561
Speaker 2: he had a heavy mustache and looked a lot like

385
00:24:42,641 --> 00:24:47,041
Speaker 2: the sketch created in Molly's case. So could David have

386
00:24:47,161 --> 00:24:52,961
Speaker 2: been involved in Molly Bush's death? Unfortunately, investigators couldn't bring

387
00:24:53,041 --> 00:24:56,561
Speaker 2: David in for questioning for Holly or Molly's case because

388
00:24:56,601 --> 00:24:59,201
Speaker 2: he died years earlier in August of two thousand and

389
00:24:59,241 --> 00:25:06,001
Speaker 2: three a congestive heart failure and hypertension. To this day,

390
00:25:06,481 --> 00:25:10,681
Speaker 2: Holly Paranin's murder has never been solved, and even after

391
00:25:10,761 --> 00:25:15,161
Speaker 2: finding Molly's body, investigators seemed no closer to identifying a

392
00:25:15,281 --> 00:25:20,161
Speaker 2: suspect in Molly's murder. So who took Molly that day?

393
00:25:20,681 --> 00:25:24,681
Speaker 2: Was it someone she knew or a stranger? Her father,

394
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 2: John told New England dot Com in twenty sixteen that

395
00:25:28,201 --> 00:25:32,881
Speaker 2: he believed that Molly's kidnapping and murder were planned. He said, quote,

396
00:25:33,241 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 2: what we think happened is someone had stalked her. He

397
00:25:36,201 --> 00:25:38,841
Speaker 2: had a very short window of time to get to her.

398
00:25:39,161 --> 00:25:40,481
Speaker 3: He knew what he was doing.

399
00:25:40,961 --> 00:25:44,241
Speaker 2: He probably feigned injury, maybe a hook in his finger.

400
00:25:44,921 --> 00:25:47,641
Speaker 2: While she opened the first aid kit he got her

401
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 2: end quote. That was the first thought that I had

402
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,721
Speaker 2: when I was reading about this case, that someone could

403
00:25:54,761 --> 00:25:56,801
Speaker 2: have faked an injury, and that maybe that was why

404
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,801
Speaker 2: the first aid kit was open. It also reminded me

405
00:25:59,881 --> 00:26:02,441
Speaker 2: of the Ted Bundy case, where he was able to

406
00:26:02,481 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 2: abduct and murder two women in a single day at

407
00:26:05,241 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: a lake by wearing a cast and appearing as though

408
00:26:09,281 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 2: he needed help. When those two women saw Ted Bundy,

409
00:26:12,641 --> 00:26:14,721
Speaker 2: it only took a second and the same thing could

410
00:26:14,761 --> 00:26:17,761
Speaker 2: have happened to Molly Bush. But if someone did convince

411
00:26:17,801 --> 00:26:20,561
Speaker 2: her that he needed first aid, was it a stranger

412
00:26:20,601 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: who was able to convince her of that or was

413
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,961
Speaker 2: it someone Molly knew and was comfortable with who lured

414
00:26:26,001 --> 00:26:29,441
Speaker 2: her up the hill to that spot. Police went through

415
00:26:29,481 --> 00:26:32,601
Speaker 2: Molly's room, They read her notebooks and journals. They talked

416
00:26:32,641 --> 00:26:35,441
Speaker 2: to everyone in her family and all of her friends

417
00:26:36,161 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 2: over the years. They questioned several people who looked like

418
00:26:38,961 --> 00:26:42,721
Speaker 2: the sketch, including a local man who tried to kidnap

419
00:26:42,721 --> 00:26:44,761
Speaker 2: a teenage girl when she was on her way to work.

420
00:26:45,441 --> 00:26:48,121
Speaker 2: The man was convicted and sentenced to six to eight

421
00:26:48,201 --> 00:26:52,161
Speaker 2: years for attempted kidnapping and assault, but like a lot

422
00:26:52,161 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: of other people, he completely denied having anything to do

423
00:26:54,881 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 2: with Molly's disappearance, and eventually that investigative lead was dropped.

424
00:26:59,801 --> 00:27:03,601
Speaker 2: There were also jailhouse confessions, but according to media reports,

425
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,481
Speaker 2: they turned out to be fake. In twenty twenty one,

426
00:27:08,921 --> 00:27:13,681
Speaker 2: Wooster County District Attorney Joseph D. Early Junior named Francis P.

427
00:27:13,921 --> 00:27:18,361
Speaker 2: Sumner a person of interest in Molly's case. Francis Sumner

428
00:27:18,441 --> 00:27:21,281
Speaker 2: worked in an auto body shop. He had been convicted

429
00:27:21,281 --> 00:27:25,321
Speaker 2: of rape and kidnapping in nineteen eighty two. At the time,

430
00:27:25,601 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 2: Francis told his twenty one year old victim that he

431
00:27:28,641 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 2: had an apartment to rent. While she was looking at

432
00:27:31,121 --> 00:27:34,161
Speaker 2: the apartment, he offered to pay her to clean the apartment.

433
00:27:34,721 --> 00:27:37,281
Speaker 2: When he came back after she was finished cleaning, he

434
00:27:37,361 --> 00:27:39,841
Speaker 2: put money down on a table and then locked the door.

435
00:27:40,481 --> 00:27:43,641
Speaker 2: He forced her into a bedroom and violently raped her.

436
00:27:44,321 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 2: She told investigators that he choked her and threatened to

437
00:27:47,201 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 2: kill her. Francis Sumner ended up serving eleven years for

438
00:27:51,481 --> 00:27:55,681
Speaker 2: that rape. Francis submitted DNA to Molly's investigators in two

439
00:27:55,681 --> 00:27:59,481
Speaker 2: thousand and three, and Mollie's sister Heather later made a

440
00:27:59,521 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: TikTok video. She said the DNA was not a match

441
00:28:03,641 --> 00:28:08,401
Speaker 2: to evidence from Molly's crime scene. Also, the DA's office

442
00:28:08,441 --> 00:28:12,161
Speaker 2: seemed to be making some mistakes. For example, when they

443
00:28:12,281 --> 00:28:15,961
Speaker 2: named Francis Sumner a person of interest, the district attorney

444
00:28:15,961 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 2: stated that Francis's victim was sixteen years old at the

445
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,561
Speaker 2: time of the rape, which was the same age as Molly.

446
00:28:23,481 --> 00:28:27,401
Speaker 2: But Francis's victim was actually twenty one years old and

447
00:28:27,521 --> 00:28:31,041
Speaker 2: it was a different mo Francis raped his victim after

448
00:28:31,121 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 2: inviting her into his home to clean his residence. Francis

449
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,841
Speaker 2: Sumner died in twenty sixteen. His half sister, Jackie, talked

450
00:28:40,841 --> 00:28:44,001
Speaker 2: to reporter about the harassment that she and her family

451
00:28:44,081 --> 00:28:46,721
Speaker 2: received after her brother was named a person of interest

452
00:28:46,761 --> 00:28:50,281
Speaker 2: in Molly's case. She said that her brother was no angel,

453
00:28:50,801 --> 00:28:53,361
Speaker 2: but she believed there was never any evidence that he

454
00:28:53,401 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 2: had committed this crime. She wondered why his name had

455
00:28:57,001 --> 00:29:00,241
Speaker 2: been put out there publicly. She talked about how locals

456
00:29:00,241 --> 00:29:03,161
Speaker 2: had thrown trash at her car and how his kids

457
00:29:03,161 --> 00:29:06,681
Speaker 2: and family members had been talked about at school and elsewhere.

458
00:29:07,721 --> 00:29:09,641
Speaker 2: This was one of the reasons why I wanted to

459
00:29:09,681 --> 00:29:12,841
Speaker 2: cover this case because I think it illustrates how it's

460
00:29:12,961 --> 00:29:17,041
Speaker 2: possible for investigators to get tunnel vision, and how easy

461
00:29:17,081 --> 00:29:20,361
Speaker 2: it is to focus on suspects because of circumstantial factors,

462
00:29:21,201 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 2: and how people's lives can be changed forever because their

463
00:29:25,041 --> 00:29:27,081
Speaker 2: names are mentioned in connection.

464
00:29:26,881 --> 00:29:27,841
Speaker 3: With a violent crime.

465
00:29:28,521 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 2: The murder victims are obviously the focus of this podcast,

466
00:29:31,961 --> 00:29:35,321
Speaker 2: but these killings reverberate through these communities, and they continue

467
00:29:35,321 --> 00:29:39,241
Speaker 2: to do damage to generations of people, even people who

468
00:29:39,361 --> 00:29:44,401
Speaker 2: had zero involvement. Jackie also stated that investigation had had

469
00:29:44,441 --> 00:29:47,281
Speaker 2: Francis's DNA since two thousand and three, so she was

470
00:29:47,361 --> 00:29:50,881
Speaker 2: wondering why his name was brought up in twenty twenty one.

471
00:29:50,921 --> 00:29:54,481
Speaker 2: She said she voluntarily gave the Massachusetts State Police a

472
00:29:54,521 --> 00:29:58,121
Speaker 2: familial sample in twenty twenty, and it was reported that

473
00:29:58,161 --> 00:30:10,961
Speaker 2: Francis's son had also given a DNA sample to police.

474
00:30:06,321 --> 00:30:07,801
Speaker 3: Twenty five years later.

475
00:30:08,521 --> 00:30:12,321
Speaker 2: Mollie's family still has no idea who killed their daughter,

476
00:30:13,041 --> 00:30:15,921
Speaker 2: So we're left going back to that scene at Commons

477
00:30:15,921 --> 00:30:19,201
Speaker 2: Pond and seeing if there was anything that anyone missed.

478
00:30:20,161 --> 00:30:22,321
Speaker 3: So what do we know for sure?

479
00:30:23,481 --> 00:30:26,921
Speaker 2: We know that whatever happened to Molly happened fast. She

480
00:30:26,961 --> 00:30:29,721
Speaker 2: didn't even have enough time to grab her shoes, and

481
00:30:29,761 --> 00:30:33,321
Speaker 2: the first aid kid supplies were left out. Her father

482
00:30:33,481 --> 00:30:36,241
Speaker 2: told CBS that he does not believe that she would

483
00:30:36,241 --> 00:30:39,241
Speaker 2: have voluntarily walked up that rocky path near the cemetery

484
00:30:39,481 --> 00:30:43,721
Speaker 2: without her shoes. Her family have publicly stated that they

485
00:30:43,721 --> 00:30:46,641
Speaker 2: believe that the police theory that Molly went somewhere with

486
00:30:46,721 --> 00:30:50,321
Speaker 2: friends should not have been followed from the beginning. The

487
00:30:50,441 --> 00:30:53,281
Speaker 2: guy driving the white car whom Maggie saw the day

488
00:30:53,321 --> 00:30:57,041
Speaker 2: before has been the focus of almost every single investigative lead.

489
00:30:58,041 --> 00:31:00,681
Speaker 2: But what if it wasn't him at all? What if

490
00:31:00,681 --> 00:31:03,521
Speaker 2: the cigarette smoking stranger with the mustache is just a

491
00:31:03,561 --> 00:31:07,281
Speaker 2: red herring? After all, there is zero evidence that he

492
00:31:07,361 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 2: was actually at the crime scene on June twenty seventh.

493
00:31:10,521 --> 00:31:13,521
Speaker 2: What if it was someone completely different, someone who has

494
00:31:13,561 --> 00:31:26,241
Speaker 2: been overlooked by law enforcement all this time. Investigators believe

495
00:31:26,641 --> 00:31:29,161
Speaker 2: that whoever did this must have been familiar with the

496
00:31:29,201 --> 00:31:32,281
Speaker 2: area around Coummen's Pond and known about the trails in

497
00:31:32,321 --> 00:31:36,601
Speaker 2: that area, and investigators believed they were probably hunters or

498
00:31:36,641 --> 00:31:39,721
Speaker 2: fishermen who knew the area where Molly's body was dumped,

499
00:31:40,161 --> 00:31:42,681
Speaker 2: and believed that it was unlikely to be disturbed for

500
00:31:42,761 --> 00:31:47,361
Speaker 2: some time. Several commoners online have talked about the effect

501
00:31:47,441 --> 00:31:50,001
Speaker 2: that the case has had on them. For many people

502
00:31:50,001 --> 00:31:52,481
Speaker 2: in that generation who grew up around there, it was

503
00:31:52,521 --> 00:31:55,281
Speaker 2: the first time that they became aware of stranger danger

504
00:31:55,681 --> 00:31:58,041
Speaker 2: and of the possibility of being taken from a public

505
00:31:58,121 --> 00:32:02,601
Speaker 2: place in broad daylight. For children and their parents, it

506
00:32:02,721 --> 00:32:07,481
Speaker 2: was terrifying. Could there be clues in the area where

507
00:32:07,481 --> 00:32:10,761
Speaker 2: Molly was taken. It's described as a beach, which it is,

508
00:32:11,121 --> 00:32:13,441
Speaker 2: but it's not a beach with a big expanse of sand.

509
00:32:13,881 --> 00:32:16,921
Speaker 2: It was somewhere where someone could hide behind trees and

510
00:32:17,041 --> 00:32:20,161
Speaker 2: watch from the woods, So it is certainly possible that

511
00:32:20,201 --> 00:32:25,361
Speaker 2: Molly's killer cased the area before showing up to kidnap her.

512
00:32:28,601 --> 00:32:33,081
Speaker 2: Molly's parents have continued to be extremely active in victim advocacy.

513
00:32:33,601 --> 00:32:35,801
Speaker 2: They have been active in trying to get justice for

514
00:32:35,921 --> 00:32:39,961
Speaker 2: other families. Her parents created the Molly Bush Center and Foundation,

515
00:32:40,441 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 2: and have been very active in local politics. They been

516
00:32:43,961 --> 00:32:49,081
Speaker 2: helping craft legislation related to family DNA identification. They have

517
00:32:49,161 --> 00:32:52,641
Speaker 2: been instrumental in creating id kits with the information of

518
00:32:52,681 --> 00:32:56,081
Speaker 2: missing children along with their fingerprints, and gave them to

519
00:32:56,201 --> 00:33:00,841
Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands of families. They also did talks about

520
00:33:00,881 --> 00:33:05,361
Speaker 2: safety at schools to children. The foundation also helped with

521
00:33:05,481 --> 00:33:09,321
Speaker 2: legislation before it went national. Maggie helped bring the Amber

522
00:33:09,321 --> 00:33:15,121
Speaker 2: Alert to Massachusetts. One thing that's pretty unique about this

523
00:33:15,281 --> 00:33:19,561
Speaker 2: case is how many suspects there were and how many

524
00:33:19,641 --> 00:33:24,561
Speaker 2: potential suspects were living locally at the time. But they

525
00:33:24,641 --> 00:33:30,401
Speaker 2: still don't know who kidnapped and murdered her. This year

526
00:33:30,641 --> 00:33:34,241
Speaker 2: marks the twenty five year anniversary since Molly went missing,

527
00:33:34,761 --> 00:33:38,041
Speaker 2: and her mother has said publicly that they still have

528
00:33:38,321 --> 00:33:42,561
Speaker 2: hope that someone out there knows what really happened to

529
00:33:42,641 --> 00:33:47,081
Speaker 2: Molly and who might have been watching and stalking her

530
00:33:47,161 --> 00:33:52,041
Speaker 2: from those woods. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone

531
00:33:52,241 --> 00:33:58,441
Speaker 2: Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line is a production of

532
00:33:58,481 --> 00:34:01,721
Speaker 2: School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated

533
00:34:01,761 --> 00:34:06,001
Speaker 2: by me Catherine Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts. Special

534
00:34:06,041 --> 00:34:08,681
Speaker 2: thanks to Amy Tubbs for her research assistance and to

535
00:34:08,761 --> 00:34:12,521
Speaker 2: James Wheaton for legal review. Noah Cammer mixed and scored

536
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: this episode. Our theme song is by Ben Salek Executive

537
00:34:16,601 --> 00:34:20,841
Speaker 2: producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and LC Curley. Listen

538
00:34:20,921 --> 00:34:23,761
Speaker 2: to Helen Gone ad free by subscribing to the iHeart

539
00:34:23,761 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: True Crime Flush channel on Apple Podcasts. If you were

540
00:34:27,161 --> 00:34:30,241
Speaker 2: interested in seeing documents and materials from the case, you

541
00:34:30,281 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 2: can follow the show on Instagram at Helen Gonepod. If

542
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 2: you have a case she'd like me and my team

543
00:34:36,241 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 2: to look into, you can reach out to us at

544
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,561
Speaker 2: our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight seven

545
00:34:41,601 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 2: four four six one four or five. That's six seven

546
00:34:44,841 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 2: eight seven four four six one four five.

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00:34:55,121 --> 00:34:56,041
Speaker 1: School of Humans