WEBVTT - Old Mountain Hunter: Ora Lee Provence 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.640 You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network powered by 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:08.520 Interstate Batteries from your truck to your trail camera. Interstate 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.440 Batteries as you covered. Visit your local Interstate Batteries store 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:17.880 today or online at Interstate Batteries dot com. Interstate Batteries 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:27.160 outrageously Dependable. My name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:31.200 of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:34.800 host into the world of hunting the icon of North 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:40.080 American wilderness to better We'll talk about tactics, gear conservation. 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:42.920 Who will also bring you into some of the wildest 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:53.400 country on the planet Chasing Battery. This is a very 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:57.920 special episode of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast that I 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:01.640 doubt that I will ever be able to replicate with 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:05.479 another guest. I had the opportunity to sit down with 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:11.639 or Lee Province of Crawford County, Arkansas. Or is ninety 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.120 one years old. His name is or A Lee Province, 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:17.160 but he goes by Oor. I got to sit down 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:19.679 with Ori. I've known or for about ten years or so, 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:25.479 and I was introduced to him because of the legend 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:28.759 that he was in the region that he deer hunts 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:31.200 because of some deer that he killed back in the 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:35.600 nineteen sixties, and so I went and did a story 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:40.320 for a regional Arkansas hunting magazine about our province and 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:43.360 the two big bucks that he killed in nineteen sixty 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:48.760 five on public land in the rugged Ozark Mountains. Ori 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:53.440 is a unique man today because of the life that 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:57.160 he's lived. Or He was born in nineteen seven back 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.960 in the same Holla that he now he's deal lives in, 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.320 and basically he's lived off the land his whole life, 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:10.760 from logging to chicken farming to growing tomatoes. Ori has 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:13.680 has managed to never have to get a job in 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:17.000 town except for a short time in nineteen fifty four. 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:21.800 Ori is an old school human and I really have 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.520 just a special place in my heart for guys like him. 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.600 I think growing up in Arkansas, I don't I don't 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:31.120 know if it was my dad or if it was 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:33.480 I believe it was a combination of things. But my 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.280 dad definitely had a lot of respect for these old 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:39.160 mountain men, and so I just had a respect for 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:43.440 for these caliber of men, and so I went and 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:47.560 just had a conversation with Ori that you're going to enjoy. 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:53.400 I think the context will help you understand or the Ozarks. 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:59.959 Anthropologists say we're culturally and geographically isolated until the nineteen 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:06.799 seventies when infrastructure and technology really reached this rugged part 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:11.960 of Arkansas. Those aren't mountains, are an uplifted plateau that 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:17.280 basically cover an area that's probably I don't know how 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:20.720 many square miles it is, but probably a hundred miles 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.400 north and south by probably three hundred miles east and west. 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:29.560 And the infrastructure, the highway infrastructure of the Ozarks was 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.440 there were no interstates, there was no major commerce in 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:38.720 the region, and basically it was a culturally and geographically 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:43.360 isolated region and still is to some degree today. And 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:47.520 Oriy they got electricity in nineteen forty eight, he told 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:52.040 me that's not on the podcast. They didn't get telephones 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:55.640 back in there until the nineteen seventies, and to this day, 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.720 they still don't even have rural water where he lives. 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:02.280 They live off way else. And for the for the 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:07.160 amount of wilderness that we have in Arkansas, he lives 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.720 back about as far as you can get for Arkansas. 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:15.520 He lives back in some of the most rugged, steep, bluffy, rocky, 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:20.000 roughest places that we have and uh ore, he still 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:23.719 lives back in there with his wife, and you're gonna 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:29.280 enjoy this conversation with my friend or a lead province. 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:36.039 As a side note, we never specified how big these 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.760 deer were that already killed. We talked about him, and 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:42.600 you'll see pictures of them on the posts about this podcast. 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.760 But the first deer that already killed scored a hundred 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:50.080 and sixty inches. I scored that deer myself. The second 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:53.680 deer has double drop times and scored a hundred and 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:58.839 eighty six gross inches. So for the Ozarks, those are incredible. Dear, 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:02.800 if they were killed today in the nineteen five deer 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.719 like that in this region of the country, we're basically 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:10.520 unheard of. Guys, I'm gonna do you a favor, and 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.520 you can do me a favorite. Check out a subscription 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:17.679 to Bear Hunting Magazine at our website bear dash Hunting 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:21.680 dot com and use the promo code b h M five. 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:27.479 That's b h M five for five dollars off a 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:47.080 new subscription on checkout what Oh you may have? Hey, Yeah, 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:53.240 how are you doing? Oh? I'm doing fire? Yes, good 0:05:53.279 --> 0:06:00.520 to see you, ye see you. This is my youngest son, Shepherd. 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.240 I don't think he's ever been over here before. I 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:05.520 haven't seen him before. Anyone, Come around and have a 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:09.440 seat here. How are you all doing? Good? Excuse the floor. 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:10.880 I was in the middle of vacuum and but I 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:12.839 ain't not got it done, so don't worry about the house. 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:18.560 Oh this is great, This is great. Hey, that's your chair, 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:24.640 I know right here in mine unrolled. Listen. Well, do 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:33.000 you know what a podcast is? A podcast? So what 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:36.160 I wanted to do today is just recorded podcast, which 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:39.720 all the podcast is is. It's a it's just a 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.280 it's like a radio show, but it's on the internet 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:47.159 and it's not live. So everything we do, I mean, 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:50.120 it'll I'll put it up later after I edited and stuff. 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:53.120 Have you ever heard of a podcast? Mis Mary? My 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:55.400 brother has talked about so he's quite a radio man. 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:58.520 He's gonna talk about stuff like that. Yeah, we don't 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.719 have what you use it? Well, it's people listen to 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:07.000 it on their phones. Now. I I just wanted to 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:12.880 kind of get a general kind of life story of 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.640 you and kind of living out here in the Ozarks 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:18.240 and uh. And also I wanted to talk to you 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:21.640 about those big bucks that you killed back in I 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:26.200 guess nineteen. But but kind of to hear too about 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:30.160 some of your earliest memories of hunting and how hunting 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.520 culture of this region, you know, kind of how you 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:35.080 grew up hunting and what you grew up doing. But 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:39.000 but I'll ask you kind of some specific questions, So 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:41.600 KNYA kind of lead you in then we'll just have 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:46.400 a conversation. But now go ahead and tell me when 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:50.000 when you were born, and kind of just about your 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.800 childhood you were you were talking to me about how 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.640 your dad had chores set out for all the kids 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:57.640 and what you had to do. So when were you 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.960 born and what was what was your childhood like? Well, 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:07.840 I was born June tenth, nineteen twenty seven, and uh, 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:14.400 I grew up when we moved from the mountain down 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:18.120 to across the Holliday Ere where I live and uh 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:23.560 twenty nine and then we I went to school two 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:26.120 weeks at went free. Now where where you were born? 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:29.360 Right here close somewhere. I was borned upon the mountain 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:33.959 here about a mile and a half. Okay, more, I'm 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:37.640 at So you weren't born in the hospital, No, no, no, 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.920 they weren't. One of us eleven children born in the 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.920 hospital and so, so you were born up here and 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:47.559 then then uh we moved down here in twenty nine. 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:50.079 Then we moved back to the mountain. I went to 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:53.200 school down you're win free two weeks and we come 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.520 went back to old home place. That was my mother's, 0:08:56.880 --> 0:09:01.200 uh dad's place. He homes did it from the United 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:05.160 States government. M and I still got the deed. Is 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:09.240 that right? Now? What year did he homestead it? I 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.360 can't recall right off, but would have been in the 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:17.000 mid eighteen hundreds, probably it was eighteen Honors sometime. Now, 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.079 were your grandparents alive? Were they a part of your 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:25.000 life as you were a kid? No, okay, just my 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:29.360 grandmother's all yeah, you know, part of to me when 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.760 I think about you know, here it is twenty nineteen. 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:34.400 You were born in nineteen twenty seven. So how old 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:36.440 are you are you? Does that make you ninety one? 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.559 I'm ninety one. I'll be ninety two in June. Okay. 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:43.000 So if you think of, you know, thinking of someone 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:48.000 that lived in the eighteen hundreds seems so long ago, 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:52.280 but you knew people that were born in the eighteen hundreds, 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:54.679 I mean the mid eighteen I mean, like your grandparents 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.679 would have been born in the I don't know. I 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.120 think I'm not too sure, but I believe my grandmother's 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:07.760 born night eighteen and uh uh is the thirty or 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:11.839 something or something? Huh, So she was born and maybe 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:15.880 even in the eighteen out she died nineteen thirty five 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:21.280 and now she's eight one. Once she died, okay, okay, yeah, 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:26.120 so probably the eighteen fifties. Yeah. Wow. So you think 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:32.520 about the the changes in lifestyle and technology from when 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:36.520 your grandmother, a woman that you knew in two now, 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.560 I mean, it's just it's incredible. I mean even the lifespan. 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:43.040 I mean, there's no humans that have really in the 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:47.600 history of humanity that really have experienced that kind of 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:54.199 development and technology, you know, incredible. But yeah, so how 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.920 many brothers and sisters did you have? I had five 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:04.160 brothers and five sisters, eleven kids and the oldest died 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:06.520 but tea would that would have made toil three and 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:10.240 younger and me? Okay, so you you were you were 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.800 towards the end there. Yeah, And now you told me 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.080 your dad had chores set out for you guys that 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:19.640 you had to do. Tell me about that. Well, uh, 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:24.640 when I was at all like boy, I was nine 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:26.720 years old or something like. I'd always get up more 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:32.560 than bidle farther and uh had it a going and 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:38.200 uh and I went and fed the team and uh, mules, 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:44.240 mules and hornessed him. Yeah, and uh come back. And 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:48.560 nineteen thirty six, I was nine years old. Nineteen thirty six, 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:53.240 we got our first radio, first radio, first radio. And 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.400 I listened to the the old ridden Cardial family and and 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.800 uh be on one row and Charlie Monro There's together 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:04.520 then yeah, and uh some of them old Sanger's way 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:07.320 back there. Yeah, a bunch of them. That was a 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.520 big deal listening to those old radio programs. They was good. 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:15.240 They was good. Yeah, I like to listen out of them. Yet. Yeah, 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:17.680 now what did what were you? What was your dad 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:21.120 using the team of mules for well, he we worked 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.400 in tam races, made her worked in timber, We worked 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:31.120 in tambarin, farmed a little, we had separate tan cows. Yeah, 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.600 so he was he was hauling logs off the mountain 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.880 with these mules. Oh yeah, right, skinning them and everything. 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:40.080 I'll be done. So you grew up doing that. That's 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.120 why they've done all about it, just a better except 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:49.600 later years by going chickens. Yeah, so they why did 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:51.800 they use mules rather than horses for doing that? Do 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:57.000 you know? Well there's more sure footage. Yeah, and I 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:00.560 don't know, but of course they use horses too, right, 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:07.920 but mostly meals. Yeah. So so your dad was a logger, 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:11.040 I mean back in these mountains right here? Yeah, maken 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:14.440 a cross tie hire and a cross ties. Yeah, I'll 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.040 be done. Now where was the mill? Was it down 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:21.840 where it is now? Down the other side here? Okay, 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.600 So load up the cross ties on a wagon or 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:29.360 load up the just raw logs on a wagon, take 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.000 them down to the mill. They've done the saw logs 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:38.720 that way, and they saw them fellas and spokes and 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:41.160 all that stuff. You know that. Of course that there 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.120 was a wagon wheels, you know, and a lot of 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:47.240 them they sold the Springfield Wagon Company. Yeah, yeah, I'll 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:51.000 be done. Now. When did y'all start getting more modern 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:54.680 uh log and equipment? Like you were a logger most 0:13:54.720 --> 0:14:01.760 of your life? Well that is up and six in 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:05.599 the nineteen sixties you started using mechanized equipment for the 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:11.440 hall and logs. Really, you know, I'll be darning. So 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.679 you were using mules and horses and everything until the 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:21.280 nineteen Yeah, what kind of saws did you use? Like 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:25.280 the two man cross cross cut sauce. Do you have 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.440 any of that old stuff still laying around? Do you really? 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:34.880 I've got one. Really, I'd like to see those. So 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:39.800 what were your Well, give me, give me just a 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.960 little like kind of a bigger glimpse of your life. 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:47.000 So born nineteen seven, Dad was a logger, and you 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:50.000 grew up just you stepped right into the family business 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:54.600 and just log right with him. And uh, and then 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.880 so you did that until when and what other kind 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:01.200 of occupations did you have? Had died in forty four 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:06.080 but okay and forty one while the World War two 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:11.200 broke out, and uh, my brothers, three of them waiting service, 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:17.040 and uh, I was oldest one left at home. Okay, 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:22.400 I took him my mother and uh my nephew and 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:28.440 uh two sisters and her brother brother. Mm hmm. Yeah. 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.600 So you were just just a few years too young 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:36.160 to be drafted into the war. I was. I was 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:42.360 when my dad daughter sixteen, okay, and uh, when I 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.520 become eighteen to day, I was eighteen. A day after 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:49.000 I was eighteen. My birthday come on Sunday that year 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.480 on Monday, I registered and I went down in past 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:58.000 examination eight Devin July. I got my calls for examination, 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:01.120 went down passed and they day have augas got my 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:07.520 call service, and uh, ministers out here. And I had 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:13.000 a big tomato crop out about ten acres tomatoes, and uh, 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:15.360 I mean the family there, we had to have something 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:19.920 to live on. And uh but anyway, why there's a 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:23.000 minister out there. He said, this boy they had to 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.800 take care of his mother and these children. And so 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:34.480 he wrote, Uh I got deferred until two locked over 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:38.840 the fifteenth and uh another words of the cropper was 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:43.640 over then. Uh, I've still got my one eight classification. 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:47.560 But the war was over that time. Oh wow, so 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:50.520 you just barely missed it. So what year would that 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:54.680 have been? Nineteen forty four? Well, let's see, it been 0:16:55.720 --> 0:17:01.640 uh seven, I believe he was okay, okay, forty that 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:07.280 would have been somewhere he's older and forty six the 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.280 war was, So you would have gone if the war 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:14.120 would have oh yeah, yeah, the lords and I went 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:18.880 to school with him. There's in there. They went in Germany. Yeah, 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:24.639 I'll be done. Wow. So so what it? So you 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:28.560 logged up until how old were you well you grew 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:30.760 to you grew tomatoes, you did some farming, you had 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:35.240 some cattle. Well I couldn't worked in Timor. That was 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:40.000 the main line up to him years and years later. Yeah. 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.560 But anyway, I went and uh man, my brother we 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.200 uh that he never did have to go to war. 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:52.200 And so but he went him went and cut timor 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:55.600 and logged it. I hold it up, I hold it 0:17:55.640 --> 0:18:00.480 on a wagon. Yeah, and uh he scared did out 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:04.080 and I won't halted and dumped it off with the 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:08.880 mail mhm. And that was I forgott to have one year. 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:16.520 That was in the late forties. Anyway. Now, the Great Depression, 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:20.320 you were just a kid during the Great These hills 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:23.760 weren't really I mean, they were affected by the Great Depression, 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:27.000 but people were already poor. I mean there wasn't much 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.360 you could do to somebody that was just living off 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.919 the land basically when it comes to economic stress. Is 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:36.600 that right, right? Yeah, we lived off the land. Yeah. 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:41.040 And nineteen thirty six that was dry here, you know, okay, 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:45.520 and uh we had a smiter crop and we haul 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.760 water and set them out and they got up and 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.680 just the blooming and everything turned off dry. We never 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:58.600 got a tomater and nineteen thirty six and that was 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:07.119 hard to take. Yeah, I remember that way too. Yeah yeah, 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:12.720 but we we worked in a tamar and uh you 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:16.840 know they paper back then they finally got where they 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:20.320 brought out food stamps and thanks, but we never got any. 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:22.960 My dad just wouldn't have nothing to do. But that 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:27.200 just by principle, he didn't need any help. We we 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:29.280 made it. We made it without it. We worked and 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:32.520 tamor made it. Yeah. What would have been a normal 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:34.600 meal for your family back then when you were a 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:40.480 kid had plenty teet? Yeah, I had plenty teet. Yeah, 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:47.399 we had anything. Yeah, as you raised hogs and can vegetables, 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:50.520 had had a garden. I know you still have a garden, 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:56.840 don't you. Well yeah or yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:02.040 we we made it fine, well done. Yeah. I had 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:06.360 about dirty swarms of bees back during the world while 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:10.119 you couldn't get sugar because every food is all racing. 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:13.919 You couldn't buy nothing. Everybody's out of sugar. And I 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:17.760 had bees and we got to you could get I 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:21.320 permit to feed the bees, you know, because it used 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:28.199 the honey somewhere another end. Guns. Yeah, I don't know 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.040 this why but that's what I heard it. An, So 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:33.840 you were selling honey. Well I didn't sell it, but 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.840 we eat it. Okay, you just had it. Yeah, we 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.640 had it, and we got penny of sugar to feed 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:41.720 the bees, and so we didn't have to run out 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:44.440 of shar A lot of people never had no sugar, 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:48.160 flour or anything. They couldn't give this so much. Huh 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:51.560 you come buy you come buy a trump tar or nothing, 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:58.760 not a pair of shoes hardly? Wow? Yeah? So now 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:03.640 what year did you get married? Forty nine? Okay, okay, 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:09.399 now what's the What was the story I remember with 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:12.480 miss Mary? She was from the town. She was from 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:17.280 in town? Is that right? And so she she didn't 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:20.000 understand what it was like to be married to a 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:23.960 country boy like you? Is that right? Tell me this 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:27.040 story about when do you remember I remember writing it 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:30.800 about you? Uh, that you went deer hunting? You told 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:33.760 her you were when y'all were eighteen? I guess do 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:37.639 you remember that? Ye tell me that story? Well, I 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:40.920 went to when dare saying open, why I always go 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.960 deer hunting? You know? I left her out of picked 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:47.960 trouted when it not it? But after I killed a 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:52.200 deer while when I got my dear, why I called 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:57.480 her and so that's kind of the way that one. 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:00.320 But but she was she wont you wondered why he 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:05.359 never called you? Is that right? A week so you 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:09.679 thought maybe something was up, but he was just hunting. Yeah, 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:16.280 i'd walk twenty today. Wow, hunting on blows, hot blows 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:22.800 and roughest places it was. So tell me now, I 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:24.800 want to start talking to you about hunting. What are 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:27.240 your earliest memories of hunting? I mean, did you hunt 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:31.600 when you were a little kid? Did your dad? Then? Uh? 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:35.520 I'd rather like during the war, you know, Wow, they 0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:41.359 wasn't no money much cross ties and selling and thirty 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:46.159 and thirty five cents apiece and uh you just couldn't 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:52.160 make much. And the timber so that when the seasoned open, 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:55.960 while we'd go hunting, we didn't make more hunting catching 0:22:56.000 --> 0:23:01.359 possums and combs. We'd even skinner skunk anything that we 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:06.800 could get, selling the hides, selling nights. Oh so you 0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:11.000 had tree dogs yeah right, yeah? Yeah. What kind of 0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:13.719 dogs did you have? Do you remember? Well, there's hounds 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:20.040 yeah yeah. Yeah. So so you were making money selling 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:23.120 hides back during that time, making more than you could 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:27.159 make at the sawmill, right, I'll be darn. You know. 0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:31.840 I've actually mentioned that on this podcast before, because we've 0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:34.879 got we've got coon dogs and and part of the 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:38.880 reason the coon dog is so culturally iconic is because 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:41.480 of back there was a time when you could make 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:44.040 more money with it if you had a good hound, 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:48.400 than you could at a day's work. I mean, yeah, yeah, 0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:52.440 I'll be darn. So you did that as a kid. Went. Now, 0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:54.440 there weren't many deer though, back when you were a 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:58.280 kid at all. None at all, No, not hardly every 0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:00.040 you never I never seen a deer u till I 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:05.200 was oh sixteen, okay, I never saw a deer the 0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:10.240 last sixteen. And no bears, No, I didn't. Back in 0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:12.680 those days. There weren't many bears around. Well, there's a 0:24:12.840 --> 0:24:21.160 few around earlier than my time. Yeah, yeah, but I would. 0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:24.159 I got my license. I think I still got my 0:24:25.000 --> 0:24:28.680 head about my first less Is that right? You still 0:24:28.720 --> 0:24:32.680 got it? I did. I've got one of the early ones. Yeah. 0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:37.160 What year would it have been? Nineteen sixteen? No, yeah, 0:24:37.280 --> 0:24:45.520 nineteen sixteen, okay, yeah now that yeah, yeah, I mean 0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:52.679 forties be uh forty yeah sixteen, that have been forty three. Okay, 0:24:52.720 --> 0:24:56.159 you were sixteen years old forty nineteen forty three. Okay, 0:24:56.240 --> 0:24:59.160 that makes sense. So you started when did you kill 0:24:59.200 --> 0:25:03.560 your first deer? Do you remember where I was seventeen 0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:05.600 when it came my first time? Okay, so in the 0:25:05.640 --> 0:25:11.440 forties and then you started. So how would you describe 0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:14.800 these mountains? Mr? Ory? There's people listening to this that 0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:18.440 have never been to Arkansas. They've never even they might 0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:22.600 even think Arkansas is a flat place. How would you 0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:29.520 describe these mountains? Well, they're they're rough, yeah, yeah, but 0:25:29.680 --> 0:25:37.159 they're beautiful. Yeah. And I've never been nowhere else. Yeah, 0:25:37.440 --> 0:25:44.680 um for Western Savannas, uh Shamrock, Texas and uh F 0:25:44.880 --> 0:25:48.800 South there's been a down around war in Arkansas. And 0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:56.320 four North svnors Kansas City, Okay, yeah, yeah, that's four East, 0:25:57.960 --> 0:26:08.840 a little rock. Yeah yeah, well I told them matter Well, yeah, 0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:12.040 you know I would describe these mountains to somebody that's 0:26:12.080 --> 0:26:14.200 not been here is they're real bluffy, and I want 0:26:14.200 --> 0:26:16.080 to hear about the way that you hunted deer. But 0:26:16.359 --> 0:26:21.200 a lot of limestone, big limestone bluffs and rocky outcroppings. 0:26:21.240 --> 0:26:23.679 I mean, even driving here to your house today, we 0:26:23.760 --> 0:26:26.800 stopped at a waterfall down here on the corner and 0:26:26.840 --> 0:26:29.359 took a picture of a big waterfall coming off one 0:26:29.400 --> 0:26:33.399 of these bluffs. And and um, you know oak forest. 0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:37.280 Not many pines around here? Uh well not right through 0:26:37.400 --> 0:26:41.400 right here, right south. I was sure there is. There's 0:26:41.400 --> 0:26:45.920 more pines. Since you've been alive, have these mountains looked 0:26:45.920 --> 0:26:48.080 about like this or can you recall a time when 0:26:48.080 --> 0:26:50.199 they were? I mean, you know, like the vegetation, I 0:26:50.200 --> 0:26:56.640 mean not the same the same. So you're coming. They're 0:26:56.680 --> 0:26:59.520 more fields and there's not as many people lives in here, 0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:02.360 and now agay used to be right yeah, there used 0:27:02.359 --> 0:27:06.640 to be a lot of homesteads in this National forest. Yeah, 0:27:06.680 --> 0:27:10.320 I mean you're you're touching National forest here, aren't you. Yeah, 0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:14.800 you're property here yeah yeah yeah on the north side, 0:27:14.800 --> 0:27:20.159 and I am now this place right here, was this 0:27:20.240 --> 0:27:23.520 homestate steadied by some of your family? No, I bought 0:27:23.560 --> 0:27:28.320 this from a fellow of Shawnee, Oklahoma. So you bought this, 0:27:28.440 --> 0:27:32.560 but your family homesteaded up on the mountain right yeah. Okay, 0:27:33.400 --> 0:27:35.960 So you killed your first year when you were seventeen 0:27:36.080 --> 0:27:38.800 in the mid forties, and then how did it tell? 0:27:39.040 --> 0:27:41.879 Described to me kind of how you learned how you 0:27:41.920 --> 0:27:47.000 started hunting these deer. Well, I just it was since 0:27:47.040 --> 0:27:50.040 I was just a little boy, nine years old when 0:27:50.240 --> 0:27:53.000 or nine years old. We lived up here on the 0:27:53.080 --> 0:27:56.040 mountain and it's about two mile to where I ain't lived. 0:27:56.440 --> 0:28:00.240 And years she raised my dad and my on and 0:28:00.400 --> 0:28:05.560