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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not supported by Netscape Navigator. Instead, it's

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Speaker 1: supported by the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon.

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Speaker 1: Visit patreon dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more

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Speaker 1: and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't know. You never know

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Speaker 1: stories of things we simply don't know the answer too. Well.

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Speaker 1: Here there, welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe,

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Speaker 1: joined as always by Steve and Deviny. So this week

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Speaker 1: I've gotta talk about a groovy mystery. This is the

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Speaker 1: mysterious death of Morgan Ingram in December two thousand eleven.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, before we go any further, this

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Speaker 1: was suggested by our listener to Cole Thanks to Cole U. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: fun little mystery. This is actually kind of big on

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Speaker 1: the internet. I don't know if you guys have noticed

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Speaker 1: it or not. Just little bit. Yeah, I've actually this

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Speaker 1: has been one that's interested me for quite some time actually,

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Speaker 1: but we've been kind of waiting for the five year thing.

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Speaker 1: Morgan was only twenty years old when she died. About

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Speaker 1: the County Corner initially ruled her death to be from

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Speaker 1: natural causes, which was pulmonary dema caused by acute intermittent porphyria.

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Speaker 1: And if you don't know what that means, I don't

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Speaker 1: know either. Yeah. The reason I didn't really research porphyria

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Speaker 1: what doma by the politary demons when your lungs filled

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Speaker 1: with louis or the sacks around your heart do yeah? Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And as far as as far as the link between

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Speaker 1: those two, I didn't bother because they revised the cause

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Speaker 1: of death later to suicide by drug overdose. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: porforio is really really really rare too. It is, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is, but it does appear that she was being

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Speaker 1: treated for it, so yeah, so it's a reasonable conclusion. Well, first,

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Speaker 1: a quick introduction to the Ingram family. Morrigan Ingram our

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Speaker 1: our victim here was twenty years old and she was

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Speaker 1: living with her parents, Stephen Tony, and she had a brother, Ryan,

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Speaker 1: who wasn't living at home at the time. Steven Tony

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Speaker 1: Ingram also had a grandson whose name was Jared. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And the reason I mentioned Jared is he has a

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Speaker 1: little small part in this from in this mystery. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The Ingrams lived in the three bedroom house on a

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Speaker 1: cul de sac called Coral Drive in Carbondale, Colorado, and

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Speaker 1: Jared was the brothers, Ryan's I believe so no, no, no, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, just to clarify, he was yeah, I mean yeah,

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Speaker 1: she was only twenty. I mean I got so. Anyway, Carbondale, Colorado,

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Speaker 1: they were kind of out in the stix. They were.

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Speaker 1: They were not right into the town. They were out

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Speaker 1: in the country. Rural of states is what I call it,

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Speaker 1: or a m rural suburb. Yeah, it actually looks if

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Speaker 1: you look at the look at the aerial of it.

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Speaker 1: Their little cul de sac is this little is this

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Speaker 1: little subdivision development out kind of out in the middle

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Speaker 1: of nowhere, and then there's some other houses around it,

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Speaker 1: but everything's really spread out. Yeah, there's fields in the

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Speaker 1: middle of things. Yeah, I know, it looks like that

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Speaker 1: area there they were Coral Drive is right off Equestrian Avenue,

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Speaker 1: and it looks like they were plans for maybe bigger,

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Speaker 1: bigger developments out there, and that's how they make them usually.

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Speaker 1: It hasn't really, it hasn't really happened yet. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: it will eventually. Yeah. You know, Actually, this mystery is

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Speaker 1: pretty thin, and my script originally was only a page

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Speaker 1: and a half long. So I went out to the Carbondale,

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Speaker 1: Colorado Chamber of commerce web page, and I cut and

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Speaker 1: pasted everything from there into the script. So dramatic reading

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Speaker 1: of carbon. Yeah. Well, first I start with a new

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Speaker 1: safe way. Oh come on, I'm just kidding. Let's back

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Speaker 1: to Morgan. Uh. Morgan Ingram's family does not accept the

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Speaker 1: Corner's ruling. They believe that Morgan was murdered. The reason

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Speaker 1: they think so is Morgan was stocked by an unknown

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Speaker 1: person or person's for about four months before her death. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The instance began in August and they continued right up

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Speaker 1: until Morgan's death in December. She died in December two uh.

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Speaker 1: And they include tapping out of bedroom windows at you

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Speaker 1: on the window, throwing small rocks at the window, following

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Speaker 1: on her car at least once, if not twice, and

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Speaker 1: another scary incident. It was early morning, still dark. Morgan

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Speaker 1: had recently gotten a puppy and by the way, I've

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Speaker 1: seen pictures of the puppy. Super cute puppy, Yeah, very cute.

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Speaker 1: The puppy needed to go outside to do a little business.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure what. And the family was a little

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Speaker 1: on edge because of all the incidents that had taken place,

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Speaker 1: and Morgan's mother, Tony, had suggested that she needed to

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Speaker 1: let the puppy out after dark. She just stand in

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Speaker 1: the doorway and just let the leash out as far

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Speaker 1: as it could go, and the puppy could do his thing.

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Speaker 1: And how did she describe it? She said, And then

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Speaker 1: you could just reel the puppy in. Yeah, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: so on the morning, Yeah, on the morning of October

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Speaker 1: it was it was earlier, so it was still dark outside.

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Speaker 1: Morgan was standing in the doorway doing that. She glanced

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Speaker 1: to the left and she saw a man dressed entirely

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Speaker 1: in black standing in their neighbor's yard, just past the

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Speaker 1: low fence, about three ft tall. And needs to say,

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Speaker 1: she did reel the puppy and probably leaving a trail

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Speaker 1: of urine. Well not probably still yeah, I've read that

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Speaker 1: report and um Tony says that he was still urinating

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Speaker 1: poor puppy. I don't know what that's like, being drug

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Speaker 1: along with you know, I don't want to find out.

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Speaker 1: She got herself inside the house and the puppy and

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Speaker 1: the puppy, Yeah, but that was that was scary. That

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Speaker 1: would I mean, that would scare me, I would imagine, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: even if I wasn't super super on edge I think

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Speaker 1: if I looked up and saw somebody staring at me

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Speaker 1: in all dark while it was dark out in black

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Speaker 1: and yeah, I would I would scare me. I would

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Speaker 1: just pull up my jammie and open fire. Yeah that's

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Speaker 1: because you're a man. Okay. Yeah, back on this, back

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Speaker 1: to the stocking incidents began in early August, and after

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Speaker 1: that the Ingram started installing those outdoor lights that had

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Speaker 1: the motion detectors and the ones I'm talking about, and

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Speaker 1: also cameras with like wildlife cameras that have motion detectors. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And the lights were going off quite often, which indicates

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Speaker 1: either they had intruders on the property or maybe they

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Speaker 1: had the sensitivity set too high on the motion detectors,

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Speaker 1: or they were pointing them at trees, which yeah, that

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Speaker 1: could be best possible to remember. There are lights going

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Speaker 1: off a lot. We had those. We had once, you know,

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Speaker 1: on the garage one lights. I remember that going off

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Speaker 1: a lot when it was like snowing or if it

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Speaker 1: was raining too hard. They were in Colorado and it

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Speaker 1: was winter when it was raining and then for a

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Speaker 1: bit and then snowy. Yeah, I'll tell you this. There's

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Speaker 1: one thing that's about these things is when you have

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Speaker 1: a neighbor that has one, it's pointed towards your bedroom windows. Worst. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's why I know about the one that we had,

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Speaker 1: because it was pointed kind of indirectly at my bedroom window. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had one of those years ago. And then, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was coming on all the time when I was

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Speaker 1: trying to go to sleep. Eventually the problem got solved itself.

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Speaker 1: Somebody apparently shot it out with the twenty two pellet pistol.

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Speaker 1: Somebody I don't know who, but yeah, somebody they had.

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Speaker 1: They had the lights, and then they also had the cameras.

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Speaker 1: The cameras, Yeah, and their carame was would occasionally catch

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Speaker 1: a little video of somebody in the driveway or the yard,

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Speaker 1: but the video was never good enough to actually identify anybody,

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Speaker 1: so the cameras weren't doing them a lot of good.

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Speaker 1: There was another interesting instance happened in daylight. Steve an Tony,

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Speaker 1: that's Steve an Toni Ingraham, mom and dad were talking

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Speaker 1: in the fourier of their house and Steve had his

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Speaker 1: back to the front door and Tony was facing the

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Speaker 1: front door, and apparently there were windows on either side

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Speaker 1: of the front door in the house. Yeah, that's kind

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Speaker 1: of a common design, those pre fab houses. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And she saw a person with a white longsleeve shirt

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Speaker 1: go dashing across their driveway through the windows and and

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Speaker 1: then turn around and went went around the corner and

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Speaker 1: between their house and their neighbor's house to the north,

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Speaker 1: and then she sets up to Steve, and Steve ran

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Speaker 1: to the back of the house where they had these

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Speaker 1: sliding last doors to try to try to see who

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Speaker 1: it was and maybe go out and even catch them.

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Speaker 1: And whoever it was was gone. So another disturbing incident, incident,

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Speaker 1: and there were all kinds of innocence. I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna list the worth of them. I'm not exaggerating.

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Speaker 1: You can find it online. Those are like police reports.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, the local police. Yeah, the the Ingram's kept

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Speaker 1: the local cops kind of busy. They went out there

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Speaker 1: a lot. But there was a pivotal moment. On the

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Speaker 1: morning of September one, two thousand eleven. Morgan was home

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Speaker 1: alone when she heard somebody working the keypad on the

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Speaker 1: front door and they had they had electronic locks on

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Speaker 1: both the front and the back doors, you know, and

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Speaker 1: you guys, all, I'm sure you know what those are, right, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you entered the electronic key, the five or six or

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Speaker 1: eight digit pin and it unlocks. Yeah. Well, once she

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Speaker 1: heard that, she thought it was her mother coming home,

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Speaker 1: because her mother had just left to go on a

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Speaker 1: run to the bank. But the buttons kept getting pushed

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Speaker 1: and the door wouldn't open, so Morgan realized it might

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Speaker 1: be the stalker. And now I don't want to question

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Speaker 1: Morgan's judgment, but to me, this seems like a great

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Speaker 1: time to grab a baseball bat and go into the

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Speaker 1: front door. But you think or even just walk to

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Speaker 1: the front door and look out the window to see

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Speaker 1: who it is that might have been. Yes, this whole

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Speaker 1: baseball thing. No, And I'm gonna this may end up

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Speaker 1: being one of those episodes where I have to constantly

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Speaker 1: remind you that, as a small woman, that's actually a

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Speaker 1: very bad idea. But I will continue to remind you

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Speaker 1: of that. I can I totally see though. We just

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Speaker 1: talked about the fact that there's windows by the front door. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you may as well go up, just go oh, okay, look,

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Speaker 1: oh look it's the neighborhood drunk. He's at the wrong

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Speaker 1: house again. Or finally, I have a description of what

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Speaker 1: this stalker looks like, because up until now I've been

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Speaker 1: able to only say it's an unidentified person. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this doesn't make sense for a lot of reasons. Well,

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Speaker 1: but on the other hand, I'm gonna do this a

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Speaker 1: lot in this episode. Again fair warning. On the other hand,

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Speaker 1: I can see, you know, I remember being younger, and

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Speaker 1: certainly this is maybe in my earlier teenage years than

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Speaker 1: like in my early twenties, but I can remember being

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Speaker 1: so scared. Sometimes fear just takes hold and you think,

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Speaker 1: I don't want him to know that I'm in here.

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Speaker 1: I don't want anybody to know that I'm in here.

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna hold up and maybe they'll just go away.

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Speaker 1: If I just ignore it, it'll just go away and

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Speaker 1: it won't be a problem, and then it will be fine. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And that you know this this again, I'm not you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously I wasn't there. As far as I know, Morgan

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Speaker 1: never reported this directly to the police. This came from

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Speaker 1: her mother, Tony. I think we need to clarify now

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Speaker 1: that none of almost none of this reporting, at least

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Speaker 1: the the initial calls to the police were done by Tony. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: her mother always was one that if the cops showed up,

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Speaker 1: got the cops here, and then eventually they would talk

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Speaker 1: to her. They should also be noted that almost all

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Speaker 1: of the contact with the police was not was neither

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Speaker 1: on the line or the non emergency line. It was

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Speaker 1: through calling people that Tony had contact with in the

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Speaker 1: police department. It was very rarely a dispatch. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: she did call dispatch, but communicated a lot via email. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: She communicate a lot via text and call an email

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Speaker 1: with the police. Yeah. So back to our story here.

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Speaker 1: Whoever that was at the front door, he got away unseen.

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Speaker 1: When Tony got back, sheally called the sheriff's department. They

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Speaker 1: sent somebody over. The deputy's name was Chris Yawns. I

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Speaker 1: think that's how that's pronounced. Chris. If you're listening, you know,

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Speaker 1: let me know if I pronounced it right or not.

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Speaker 1: He noticed a footprint in the dirt under a bathroom window.

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Speaker 1: There's three bathrooms in that house that have windows, of

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Speaker 1: the total four. They've got a lot of bathrooms in

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Speaker 1: that house. Foot house that's pretty decent sized. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: there were three of them, but I'm not sure which

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Speaker 1: one it was, but there was a footprint. Later that afternoon,

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Speaker 1: the Ingram's grandson, Jared, who I mentioned earlier, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure he's who was a kid apparently, like I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure exactly how old, ten, fifteen, sixteen, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but he came over to the house. He saw the

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Speaker 1: footprint and he said that it looked to him like

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Speaker 1: it was the soul of an ethnic shoe. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know how he managed to do that, but he's like,

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Speaker 1: it's not that hard. I mean, some shoes have very

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Speaker 1: distinct Well, maybe he had Etney's himself, you know, that's maybe.

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Speaker 1: Of course, maybe it was his footprint too. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but uh. Jared was later not long after that, standing

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Speaker 1: out by the street and he noticed a neighbor driving by.

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Speaker 1: The neighbor was Keenan van Ginkel, who lived at the

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Speaker 1: end of the cul de Sac at one to three

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Speaker 1: Coral Drive. There. Yeah, he lived with his girlfriend. He

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Speaker 1: had moved in with his girlfriend. He wasn't there. I

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Speaker 1: think he moved in in June maybe, and and he

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Speaker 1: was out. He was there for maybe three or four months, No,

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Speaker 1: not really. The house was owned by a guy named Jim.

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Speaker 1: Jim Harris his daughter, Brooke Harris, was Keenan's girlfriend. So

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Speaker 1: Jared hustled over to Keenan's house when he was getting

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Speaker 1: out of his car to ask him if he wanted

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Speaker 1: his lawn mode. But his real modive, he said, was

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Speaker 1: to look at keenan shoes, and he came back and

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Speaker 1: reported today looked exactly like purple. Etney's why he originally

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Speaker 1: suspected Keenan. I don't know. Maybe he decided to go

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Speaker 1: around and look at everybody in the neighborhood's shoes, you know,

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Speaker 1: until he found him Etney's. Yeah, I I don't know.

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Speaker 1: They the family seem to be convinced. And again, I,

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Speaker 1: as you said, I wasn't there, and I don't want

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Speaker 1: to anybody to think that I'm casting any negative information

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Speaker 1: on the family, But they seem to be grasping for

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Speaker 1: somebody on their street to be the responsible party. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I can sort of see that because

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Speaker 1: on the one you know, on the one hand, to

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Speaker 1: be inconvenient if you're gonna stock somebody to have to

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Speaker 1: commute out to the sticks where this little subdivision was,

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Speaker 1: so I could see why they might be thinking it's

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Speaker 1: somebody on that little because there's not a lot of

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Speaker 1: people close by otherwise. But at the same time, with

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Speaker 1: what they don't understand about stalkers is that stalkers are

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Speaker 1: willing to go to all kinds of inconvenience to obsessively

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Speaker 1: go after somebody. So I could totally picture somebody driving

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Speaker 1: out there all the time, you know, parking a little

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Speaker 1: ways away and hiking in and then just then doing

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Speaker 1: this thing and then then leaving again. Yeah. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: that's the that's a very common characteristic, is just taking

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Speaker 1: things to a level that nobody would expect. Yeah, the deal.

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Speaker 1: On the other other hand, you know, these incidences vaguely

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Speaker 1: correspond with when Keenan moved in. And again, you know,

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Speaker 1: since all this information comes from the parents, we don't

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Speaker 1: know if Morgan maybe had had some because she had

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Speaker 1: been friends with Keenan's or at least casual acquaintances with

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Speaker 1: Keenan's girlfriend, And so there's no there's no real sense

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Speaker 1: of if the family is trying to kind of protect

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Speaker 1: a past that Morgan said, yeah, I had to run

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Speaker 1: in or two with this guy that made them suspect

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Speaker 1: him more. I don't think that's something that the mom

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Speaker 1: Tony would have mentioned because she does try to mean,

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Speaker 1: she really does. She makes sure that everybody knows that

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Speaker 1: Morgan is like perfect, which I understand the impetus to do.

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Speaker 1: But we also, I don't think we would know if

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Speaker 1: there had been some past with Keenan to make them.

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Speaker 1: I think that he was a good candidate for this stalker. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just candidate. Yeah, I don't think that there was any

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Speaker 1: past actually, but yeah, she she had known Brook. There

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Speaker 1: were acquaintances, and that's about it. And they hadn't talked

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Speaker 1: for months, so that's about They didn't seem to be

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Speaker 1: any bad blood between them, Okay, Anyway, I said this

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Speaker 1: was a pivotal moment because this apparently is what got

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Speaker 1: Keenan on the Angram's radar. I'm not totally sure about that,

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Speaker 1: but that this appears to be it. So Tony called

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Speaker 1: Deputy Jaunts later that day and told him that a

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Speaker 1: neighborhood identified Keenan as a suspect. I guess maybe she

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Speaker 1: didn't want to get Jared involved, so she just said

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Speaker 1: one of the neighbors said that Keenan would would be

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Speaker 1: a likely suspect. It sounds like the rumor mill was

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Speaker 1: working overtime in this call to set. There were a

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Speaker 1: couple of a couple of big time gossips in this

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Speaker 1: little cul de sac. They really were pretty feel like

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Speaker 1: that really polluted a lot of what was going on.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and like like like her next door

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Speaker 1: neighbor Rhonda in the House of the North. Apparently, apparently

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Speaker 1: Tony was busy telling telling Ronda about her suspicions. So

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Speaker 1: then Rohnda was spying on Keenan, watching his movements and

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Speaker 1: everybody else. Yeah, so it was no, there was no

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Speaker 1: secret here. Yeah. So two days later, about nine pm,

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Speaker 1: Tony is in her office in a bedroom at the

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Speaker 1: front of the house. It's just right off the front

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Speaker 1: of the front entrance and Morgan, nobody else was home

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Speaker 1: at the time. Somebody tossed a rock against the window.

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Speaker 1: Must have apparently been a small rock. She keeps talking

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Speaker 1: about rocks. I think I'm thinking more like pebbles, you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but somebody and somebody hit the window of the rocks

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Speaker 1: was the window of the office, Yeah, the office, which

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Speaker 1: was a bed. It's basically a bedroom doubles. Doubles is

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Speaker 1: an office. And is that the room that um Morgan

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Speaker 1: had been sleeping in? Uh no, No, she was according

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Speaker 1: to according to her mother, I've never heard, actually officially

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Speaker 1: from Morgan that she was sleeping their parents their parents

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Speaker 1: master bedroom closet. Okay, but that's where she was sleeping.

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Speaker 1: I thought there was I thought I remembered something about

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Speaker 1: an office, but I could be totally wrong. Well, there

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Speaker 1: was one incident where she was she came home and

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Speaker 1: she was taking a shower in her mother's office. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a bathroom in there, and it might be apparently

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Speaker 1: Morgan did not maintain her own bathroom, was in her

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Speaker 1: bedroom in tip top shape. Yeah yeah, and so maybe

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Speaker 1: the bathtub was just cleaner in the mom's office bathroom,

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Speaker 1: and so she decided to go use that one instead. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's about But she never slept in the office, she

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Speaker 1: accorded to her mother. She slept in the master bedroom

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Speaker 1: closet for a while. Back to the rock throwing incident,

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Speaker 1: Tony calls the sheriff's office. They sent a new deputies over.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, I want to say to to anybody,

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Speaker 1: any of you in the Sheriff's office that all listening,

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Speaker 1: pakudos to you guys. You really you really went out

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Speaker 1: there a lot. Yeah did your job they did? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they did. Absolutely. There was no oh, come over later.

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Speaker 1: They wouldn't took care of it, check it out. No,

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Speaker 1: I mean there were there were times when they did it.

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Speaker 1: Actually they got a report of an incident. You know.

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Speaker 1: There was one time that they came in from two

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Speaker 1: different directions, you know, they came in from the outside

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Speaker 1: and everything, just in an attempt to catch this mysterious

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Speaker 1: perpetrated Yeah. Uh and uh. And then they searched the

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Speaker 1: house like two doors down, you know, and they searched

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Speaker 1: it more than once. Actually, the lights were on at

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Speaker 1: one two three Coral Drive, which is where Keenan lives.

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Speaker 1: So the deputies went over there to see if anybody

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Speaker 1: had seen anything. Brooke Harris and that Keena's girlfriend answers

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Speaker 1: the door. Her dad was not home, but she was

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Speaker 1: asked if she had seen any suspicious activity. She said

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Speaker 1: she hadn't. Um. She also said Keenan was in the house,

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Speaker 1: but that he was asleep. They asked if she would

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Speaker 1: wake him up, and she didn't want to because apparently

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Speaker 1: he needed to sleep because he had to get up

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Speaker 1: at like and then go to work at two am. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had a job at a grocery store to shift

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Speaker 1: was generally two am to ten am. Yeah, working your

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Speaker 1: grocery stores are can be brutal on you mean, just

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Speaker 1: because of the shot the hours that are required. Yeah,

364
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Speaker 1: working working that graveyard shift is just tough no matter what.

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Speaker 1: After the deputy has left, the most activated lights at

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Speaker 1: the end of his house went on at least seven

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Speaker 1: times that night, which is according to a diary that

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Speaker 1: Tony kep and she wrote, quote we assumed the per

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Speaker 1: was angry about almost getting caught unquote. So I want

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Speaker 1: to point something out or make a comment on something,

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Speaker 1: which is I have looked at the digital versions that

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Speaker 1: she has made of her diaries of the lights on

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Speaker 1: the property, because it was pretty extensive, the locations and

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Speaker 1: times and the lights would go off. She would have

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Speaker 1: it at one, one thirty, two, three, four or five six,

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Speaker 1: install an app on her phone that tracked every single

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Speaker 1: time the lights went off. She had comments on them.

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Speaker 1: That was the thing that made me think that part

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Speaker 1: of this is she was waking up every time the

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Speaker 1: freaking light was going on, which means that she wasn't sleeping.

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Speaker 1: Don't make any of them were sleeping, which really well,

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Speaker 1: it has an effect on your your perceptions and your

383
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Speaker 1: judgment good that it does seem like her judgment was

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Speaker 1: not quite right. It's gat least questionable. Yeah, there's some

385
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:03,480
Speaker 1: questionable judgment here. Yeah. Uh. Keenan was the family's prime suspect,

386
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Speaker 1: of course, but their suspicions were amplified when Morgan was

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Speaker 1: followed one night in her car when she was driving home,

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Speaker 1: and she slowed down to try to get the car

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Speaker 1: to pass her, but it didn't pass her. And then

390
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Speaker 1: a third car pulls up behind that car, and uh.

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Speaker 1: In the illumination of the headlights of the third car,

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Speaker 1: Morgan's could see the outline of a driver, which appeared

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Speaker 1: to be a male of about Keenan's height and build.

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Speaker 1: And then she turned down Highway one hundred, which leads

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Speaker 1: to equestrian Way. Yeah, she turned right on the equestrian

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Speaker 1: way and the car went on on Highway one hundred

397
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Speaker 1: and she looked back and she noticed it was a

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Speaker 1: small green car, which is like the car that Keenan drove.

399
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Speaker 1: So who more suspicions the the next the next suspicious

400
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 1: thing that happened. Uh, that's in the October twenty nine

401
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,879
Speaker 1: entry into her diary. And this stuff is all available online.

402
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 1: By the way, you can see all this stuff. Tony

403
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,919
Speaker 1: wrote that somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody who

404
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,280
Speaker 1: knew somebody. And I don't know if you guy saw

405
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,240
Speaker 1: this not, but it was quite a long chain of

406
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, yeah it is. But apparently Keenan had

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Speaker 1: told someone that he had a girlfriend in Carbondale named Morgan,

408
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Speaker 1: and he was not living at one two three. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was no longer living in He had broken up.

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00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 1: He and broken broken up at this point exactly, and

411
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Speaker 1: he moved out. Yeah. So obviously that's kind of a

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00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 1: stock right thing to say. I've got a girlfriend named

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Speaker 1: Morgan and she lives in Carbondale, and there's only one Morgan,

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Speaker 1: of course in Carbondale, and Carbondale is not a really

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00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 1: big town. Yeah, but Morgan is also not the most

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Speaker 1: unique name, not entirely now, actually it's it's it isn't

417
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Speaker 1: totally unique. There was another Morgan in Carbondale. And I

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Speaker 1: want to say at this point that, just in case

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Speaker 1: you get bored and turn off our podcast and listen

420
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 1: to the rest of it, I really need to tell

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00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 1: you that the case against Keenan was never very strong,

422
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 1: and there wasn't need another Morgan. In Carbondale, and she

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Speaker 1: actually was Keenan's girlfriend at the time, and the police

424
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: actually checked this out and they got they got a

425
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 1: ton of information from him that corroborated that it would

426
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 1: have been nearly impossible for him to have been the

427
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:09,640
Speaker 1: responsible party. Well, there was, there was some information there, Yeah,

428
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,119
Speaker 1: there was. There were just times when incidents happened when

429
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 1: he was either at work or he was out of state. Yeah,

430
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,920
Speaker 1: and so so that's presumably out of state. Well yeah,

431
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 1: this whole his family could allied and stuff like that.

432
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,360
Speaker 1: But because a short story is he is not as

433
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 1: stalker he as everybody has been left to believe it

434
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 1: by this point. Yeah, I mean, there's there's various schools

435
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: have thought on that. Of course, Tony Ingram believes he's

436
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 1: a serial killer, and we'll talk more about that later.

437
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 1: But yeah, she thinks that he's a serial killer. Other

438
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 1: people think that he's innocent. Does she really think he's

439
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 1: a serious serial killer in training I believe serial killer

440
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: in the making words, yes, yeah, thank you. I knew

441
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 1: that it was something along the lines of he's currently

442
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 1: using his training wheels. Yeah, yeah, he is, but he's

443
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: he said that, he said, he said that at least

444
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 1: one police or she did. She said that to at

445
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,439
Speaker 1: least one police officer. She also to that same police

446
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: officer put it in an email. Is that Glassmyer? Yeah,

447
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 1: Detective glass Meyer. Another another intriguing incident November two, there

448
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 1: were footprints in the snow which apparently came from Lacole

449
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: to Sack and circled their house and then left again,

450
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 1: And so that creeped them out understandably. Yeah, although you know,

451
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,959
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's might be reasons why somebody came

452
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: through their yard too, but you know, chasing a dog,

453
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 1: kids playing, yeah, I mean, who knows all the way

454
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: circling a house though, I don't know. Yeah, have you

455
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: ever seen seven and eight year old kids just run? Yeah?

456
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: But presumably hell mell, But presumably you look at the

457
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: footprints of a seven or eight year old and think,

458
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 1: oh kids, You don't think wow, creepy stalker, dude. I

459
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: remember looking at the map that they drew of that

460
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 1: that incident they had. They had mapped out the path

461
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,959
Speaker 1: that this person took, and it started on the street

462
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 1: if I remember right, and then looped around clockwise around

463
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: their house, yeah, and then came back to almost the

464
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: same spot, almost like somebody was not necessarily casing the joint.

465
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 1: But there were the footsteps weren't in a perfect arc

466
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,719
Speaker 1: or a circle around him. There's like another side meander here.

467
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: So it makes me think that somebody was running after

468
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 1: something or chasing something, necessarily checking out the house or

469
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 1: casing it. That that's possible too. And I and from

470
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: the pattern that they drew, I'm not even too I'm

471
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 1: not even sure that it was one set of footprints. Yeah, yeah,

472
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 1: I really can't tell, and I'm sure it probably wasn't actually,

473
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: but you know people go out walking in the snow.

474
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: Is this a Winnie the Pooh thing? Yeah, you know,

475
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: there's there's one person and I'm following his tracks. Now

476
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: there's two piglets. Now there's four pooh because they're following

477
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: their own tracks. Oh, I got you. Neither of you

478
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,479
Speaker 1: remember this. It's been so long since I read one

479
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: of the Pooh I don't remember anything. So disappointed. I

480
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: am so going to get to the reference kudos this week. Yeah, yeah,

481
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: when I share all of our fans are really in

482
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: the winning. Let's let's go back a little bit in

483
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: time and on September, Detective Glassmyer, Robert Glassmire of the

484
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 1: Garfield County Sheriff's Office. Who is he. He's the one

485
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 1: who's been kind of the lead investigator. Yeah, yeah, he did.

486
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 1: He's of the report fame most of it. Yeah, there

487
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: was some of some other stuff written other reports written

488
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: by other officers, but he's written yeah. Uh. He installed

489
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: two wildlife cameras on the north side of that the

490
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: Ingram's house, and that's the Morgan's bedroom was in the

491
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: northwest corner of the house, and the north side would

492
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: be the side yard, so that is the obvious places

493
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 1: for the stalker to hang out and throw a rock

494
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,719
Speaker 1: setter window. Right at this time, Tony was calling an

495
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 1: emailing Glassmier repeatedly saying that lights were coming on, somebody

496
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 1: was scratching at Morgan's windows and et cetera. And uh.

497
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: October second, Detective Glassmyer changed the memory cards and reviewed

498
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 1: but was on the ones that have been in the camera.

499
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,719
Speaker 1: Found no images of anything. But of course maybe Keenan

500
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 1: or whoever the purp was was just really clever and

501
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 1: switched the memory cars and the cameras. I also think,

502
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,479
Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen trail cams that take pictures of

503
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: nothing or just you know, empty trails. So it's you know,

504
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: the stalk was broken, and that's what triggers for the

505
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: stalker is moving fast enough that you know the camera

506
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 1: doesn't turn on. I don't know, Yeah, I don't know.

507
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: I just I mean he actually went back and he

508
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 1: wants to service those things pretty regularly, and he never

509
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: he never found a single useful image on them. Ever,

510
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: I wanted this one wildy stalker. And then on the

511
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: two or seventh, detective glass Binder and another detective walked

512
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: onto the property, which means they did not parked their

513
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: cop car out in front of the property on the street. Yeah,

514
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: that would have. They parked elsewhere, like I'm not sure

515
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: exactly where. And they walked onto the property through the back,

516
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 1: over a berm and hidden the bushes. Uh. Staked it

517
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: out from eleven pm tolve am and saw nothing. What

518
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean there wasn't a stocker. It just mean

519
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 1: that needs a stockard. They weren't there on a night. Yeah,

520
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: I didn't happen to show up. What they did notice

521
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: is at the backyard, motion activated light turn on and

522
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: off two or three times, and uh, and there was

523
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: nothing going on. It just came on on its own,

524
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: or maybe because of a tree movie or something like that.

525
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: I just watched the episode of Sherlock the Hound of

526
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: Basketball Bills episode of the New Sherlock UM and that

527
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: happens in that too. The light just goes on and off.

528
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: But the guy's so paranoid that you know, of course,

529
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: he's like freaked out and screaming and has a gun.

530
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: And I mean, you know, I really go on and off.

531
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: Or it was an invisible hound. Maybe the stalker has

532
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 1: an invisibility cloak. It could be. In fact, he probably does.

533
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: We talk about that next week. I didn't. I didn't

534
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: need to watch Sherlock. I haven't seen that. I haven't.

535
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: I'll give it to you. He's Devin Jur only sources

536
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: of the television show. Okay, that's it, then I'll take

537
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: it anyway. That night, after they left, at two thirty am,

538
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: Glassmary got a text from Tony saying the backyard light

539
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 1: was turning on and off, and Glassmar explained that he's

540
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: seen it going on and off himself and that it

541
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: was it was probably nothing. Probably needed to calibrate your light.

542
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: Time goes on. Tony kept reporting incident and incidents, and

543
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 1: Glassmarre kept checking his wildlife camps. Never got images of anything,

544
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: as I said, and the Engram has got a few

545
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: murky images on their cameras, but never so they set

546
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: up cameras too. Yeah, they had where those trail cams

547
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: or were they cameras that they were streaming, were like

548
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: wildlife camps, but apparently they took they took video instead

549
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: of instead of snaps. It's yeah, it was. It sounded

550
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: like it was a video camera that obviously was motion activated.

551
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: It wasn't a high grade one, but they were like

552
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: low grade surveillance cameras. Because I do remember reading her

553
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: often saying I was staying up all night watching the cameras.

554
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: So it made me think, yeah, they had a fee

555
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: and there they were bears. Yeah, okay, so they've got

556
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: some pictures. So yeah, they've got several cameras all around

557
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: the house. And then there's two sheriff's cameras there, so

558
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: that that place was just totally covered. Well, and on

559
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: the on those that that front camera that's where the

560
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: infamous stalker photo comes from, there's this they capture this picture.

561
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: Apparently the police had just been there. Well, it's a

562
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: series of pictures, is it that they always post. It's

563
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: like three in succession, and the two of them are

564
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: of the cops. Right, okay, now cops ar the cops leaving,

565
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: and then this other and then this other. This person

566
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: is in their driveway and is turning their heads. So

567
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: it's it's not that great of an image because it's

568
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: all blurred out, and Tony and Steve are saying that

569
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: you can see that the tail lights of the police

570
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: car in that that image, So that's how soon this

571
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: person comes on their property. It's like he was hiding

572
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: right nearby. And yeah, because that's that's one of the

573
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: things that they talk about, is this person was he's

574
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: there and was fooling the cops and was getting their

575
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: jollies off of just messing with everybody. Um, but their

576
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: cameras obviously weren't that great. And I really, I mean again,

577
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: with a lot of things, and I'm the jerk who

578
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: does this. I questioned a lot of the stuff that

579
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: is presented as proof because it seems a little soft

580
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: to me. But but that's one of the ones that

581
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: you see on the internet a lot is that this

582
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: is this is the cops arriving and leaving, and then

583
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: there's the stalker in the footage, which is one of

584
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: the only images of a person that we have. Yeah,

585
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: there's not much out there in terms of the imagery

586
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: for considering how many cameras were on the property. He

587
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: was a clever little fiend. If yeah, if indeed he exists,

588
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: well there's that. Yeah. And see about this time, Keenan

589
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: began getting threats on Facebook. That would be in November

590
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: from a guy named Danny Rodan, who was either Morgan's

591
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: boyfriend at the time or trying to be her boyfriend.

592
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: Also in November. This was on the sixteenth, Keenan voluntarily

593
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: came into the Sheriff's office because apparently his dad contacted

594
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: the Sheriff's His dad's name is Wade, and he had

595
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: heard these all these stories about how Keena was being

596
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: accused of being a stock had reached him. And well

597
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: also the Sheriff's actually went by where Keenan worked to

598
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: ask questions about him and try to find out, you know,

599
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: if he worked there and when, what his ships were,

600
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: everything and everything like that, trying to eliminate him were

601
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: profuly was a suspect and so and Wade also apparently

602
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: worked at the same place, so they you know, he

603
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: was obviously concerned wanted to know what this was about.

604
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: So Wade and Keenan went in for an interview in

605
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: the sixteenth Keenan said he didn't know Morgan. When he

606
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: was told about the various footprints that they had found

607
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: in the in the dirt and the snow, he offered

608
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: to turn over a pair of his shoes for comparison. Uh.

609
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: He also volunteered to take a polygraph tests. Cooperative this

610
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: can be oh yeah, yeah, he was very cooperative. He

611
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: didn't lawyer upper anything like that. Lastmyer also wanted to

612
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: see Keenan's work records as a way to maybe eliminate

613
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: him as a suspect, and Keenan's signed a consent for

614
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: him available online. Yeah, and they collected all of a

615
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: huge ton of his time cards. Yeah, they're out there

616
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: and they're out there to look at. So. Yeah. They

617
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: also had another another image video somebody walking out their driveway,

618
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: and I had just not the same one that you

619
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: were talking about, a different one. Ok. Yeah, somebody actually

620
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: like like pulled into their driveway, got out, walked up

621
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: to the house from turn and walked away. Again. They

622
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: thought that was suspicious. But again they couldn't see they

623
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: couldn't see who who it was, crappy cameras they had.

624
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: So Glasmyer made reference to that video when he was

625
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: when he was talking to Keenan, tried to raddle his

626
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: cage a little bit and said he sent the video

627
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: to the cb I, which is the Colorado Bureau of

628
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: Investigation for enhancement, even though the cb I, I I think,

629
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: had already told him that there was no way they

630
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: could enhance it. You can't enhance that stuff. You can't

631
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: just zoom it enhanced. No. That's the whole thing is

632
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: that everybody seems to believe that you can just say

633
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: a computer enhanced, you know, and and the computer can

634
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: extract information that doesn't exist it just as you I know,

635
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: I know, and but but you know, of course a

636
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: lot of people don't understand this. They watched this crap

637
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: in the movies on TV where they just pour more

638
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: pixels onto the screen and it it cleans it up. Yeah,

639
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: and so and so Keenan was like, oh, well, you're

640
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: still not going to find my face in there, basically

641
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: what he said, and so what so he was either

642
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: either totally in a centator or he was a sociopath.

643
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: You guys decide, we'll present the information. Yeah, you'll, you'll

644
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: figure it out. And at this point the terror continued

645
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: on for two more weeks. Um then on the evening

646
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: of Thursday, December one, Wherego was out for a while

647
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: with Danny Roden. He's the guy that was sending the

648
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: Facebook friend maybe maybe boyfriend maybe not. Yeah, I read

649
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: the you guys probably read the face book exchange, right, Yeah,

650
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: I stopped. I mean I read the first two pages

651
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, I read some of it, and then

652
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: I just gave up on it. Yeah, I read the

653
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: whole thing that. Yeah, it's it's, you know, typical Internet stuff,

654
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: arguing dudes in the early twenties arguing over a girl

655
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: kicking rich Man. Yeah, totally, yeah, totally, yeah, try it. Yeah,

656
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: my botter find you before the cops. Yeah, I mean yeah, yeah,

657
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: obviously we read more than we want to admit. Yeah.

658
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: He parted ways with her, and he reported later that

659
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: she was actually in a good mood when when they

660
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: parted ways. But something must have happened between then and

661
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: when she got home at nine pm, because her parents

662
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: said that she was in a foul mood for some reason.

663
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: But we're going to also taken Tony's car without permission.

664
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: And she also had not responded to any of the

665
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: text messages that her parents sent to her, so Tony

666
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,280
Speaker 1: was angry with her for that. And so I remember

667
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: being and you know, going to see my boyfriend when

668
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: I was nine in twenty and being in a good

669
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: mood when I was with him, and then I left

670
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: and I was like, I go home now and deal

671
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 1: with my parents. My parents are awesome for the record,

672
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: as an older person now, but you know, you just

673
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: kind of getting that like, oh God, or maybe it's

674
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: even like oh God, I gotta go back to that house.

675
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: And Morgan had been a student and she had essentially

676
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: just dropped her studies at that point, whether it was

677
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: from what was going on at home or just a

678
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: shift in her interests, Like it's it's one of those

679
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: things where you go home and it's I have all

680
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: that crap to do and I just don't want to

681
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: be here, and mom and down they're gonna harp on

682
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: me for not getting my stuff done because I'm a

683
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 1: college kid living at home. Yeah, I know, it might

684
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: it might be that she was twenty years old, still

685
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: living at home, and she just didn't really enjoy it.

686
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,959
Speaker 1: You know, I wouldn't. Yeah, no, most of us don't

687
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: or wouldn't. But well, anyway, so they're both they're both

688
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: in add moods. Tony is angry. They had an argument

689
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:07,359
Speaker 1: but which culminated with Morgan calling Tony a bad word. Yeah,

690
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: there you go, also means female dog. Yeah, there you go.

691
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: Apparently that was unusual from Oregon. Then she went to

692
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: her bedroom and shut the door. Tony knocked on the door,

693
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: said she wanted to talk, and Morgan told her to

694
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 1: go away, and then Steve, her dad, went in and

695
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: they had a little talk for about fifteen minutes, which

696
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 1: apparently ended on a good note, which is good because

697
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: they would never talk again. Yea, yeah, because Morgan. Morgan

698
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 1: was found dead in her bed the next morning, and

699
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: she had her clothes on. She had taken her shoes off,

700
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: but otherwise was fully clothed. And uh. An autopsy and

701
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: lab tests revealed extremely high levels of ab a trip

702
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: to lean in her system, which is a drug for

703
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: the treatment of anxiety that I don't know if I

704
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: mentioned this before, and several drug yeah, yeah, and uh

705
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: but no pills were found in your stomach. Also, her

706
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: driver's license was missing from her purse, and some of

707
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: her jewelry was gone. As I said earlier, Eventually the

708
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: coroner ruled the death suicide by drug overdose. But Tony

709
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: Ingram's theory in the case, it's a little different. Let's see,

710
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 1: she and her husband believe that Morgan was murdered by

711
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: fire stockers. By the time of Morgan's death, they suspected

712
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: that Brooke Harris was also a part of the stock

713
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: and conspiracy. Originally they thought it was just Keenan, but

714
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: they later came to believe it was Brooke also. And

715
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 1: they believed that Brooke and or Keen and concealed themselves

716
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: in their backyard and the bushes are somewhere and observes

717
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: them keying the code into the back door and then

718
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 1: knowing the code. On late late December one or in

719
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: the week early hours of December two, they gained access

720
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: to that back door, went into Morgan's bedroom and subdued

721
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: her and administered a fatal dose of liquid and a

722
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: trip to Lene, which you can get online with even

723
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: without a prescription, either through injection or by forcing Morgan

724
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: to drink it. That I mentioned that amate trip to

725
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: is a date rape drug. I don't think that's true.

726
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: Well it is according to Tony Ingram. Yeah. Uh so,

727
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: when Morgan was sufficiently out of it, Keenan raped her,

728
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: and then apparently Keenan and Brooke put Morgan's pants back

729
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: on her and left the same way they came in,

730
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: of course, stopping to grab her driver's license and her

731
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: jewelry it's trophies. Yeah, and uh so, our that's our

732
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: mystery here is did she commit suicide? And that's Morgan

733
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: that is was this an accidental overdose? Or was she murdered? Well,

734
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 1: there's a few theories. The first theory, well, I call hell, yeah,

735
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: she was murdered. Um. The the Ingram's actually seemed to

736
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: originally have had theory that she was like murdered by

737
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: murdered by fright. Uh and then they scared to death?

738
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: Yeah apparently or or she or she did commit suicide

739
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: it was because she was just living in so much terror.

740
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: Well that is not so upsurd to me, but no

741
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: can talk about that in a little bit. I can

742
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: understand why they would feel that way. Yeah, I feel

743
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 1: that way. But the other one is that the stocker.

744
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: So that's that that murdered. That thing is that stock

745
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: had been a less such a living hell. She she

746
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: killed herself, which means that her stockers were the killers.

747
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: Uh and the ignorance have there been very critical law

748
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: enforcement for not investigating the crime. There's a long quote

749
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: which I won't quote you here, but go to their

750
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 1: web page. It's called Morgan Ingram dot com and they

751
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: will list all of their other agrievances. But here's here's

752
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: just an opposite of it. There's been no investigation UM

753
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: into her death, nor the stocking. Jewelry was stolen from

754
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: her room, her bottom bed sheet, pajamas, driver's lasses, and

755
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,879
Speaker 1: more were taken that she was killed, but no investigation.

756
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: A year after her death, we would learn that a

757
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: date raped cocktail was put into her stomach after she

758
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: was dead, but still no investigation. Two years after her death,

759
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,240
Speaker 1: we learned that her body showed evidence of being assaulted, redressed,

760
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: and posed after she was dead. Still no investigation. So

761
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: this is this is the family. This is um You

762
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: know me paraphrasing what the family said on their website,

763
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: which is strange because when you read the correspondence from

764
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: the family to the cops. They are so thankful for

765
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: everything that the police are doing for them, because the

766
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,399
Speaker 1: police were going to some pretty big lengths to try

767
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,439
Speaker 1: to help these people, and then suddenly they turned around

768
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: and they are ultra critical of their complete her lack

769
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 1: of motivation to do anything the whole time. Yeah, I know,

770
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 1: I think the police, if there have been any evidence,

771
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: you know, I think that they would have been happy

772
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: to follow up on it. Yeah, I'm sure of it. Yeah.

773
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: So the problems with this murder theory is there's no

774
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: physical evidence. Her bedroom was in disarray. There's clothes and

775
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: stuff strewn everywhere, which could be evidence of a struggle,

776
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: except her bathroom was the same way she had been

777
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 1: using one of the other bedrooms in the house. It

778
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: was also in total disarray. One of the police, um,

779
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: what do they call it their their summations after the fact,

780
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: I can't think of the phrase he was saying that

781
00:40:55,440 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: he actually used the term in the port that is,

782
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: how how chaotic that room was. I don't know. I

783
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: think men often think that women are like very clean

784
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: turns out when we're in our early twenties and and

785
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: our teenage years. No, you're like a fifteen year old boy.

786
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: It's worse because there's makeup and there's like twenty times

787
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: more clothes, and it's just awful. I mean, I was

788
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: a slob. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not going to make

789
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 1: any judgments about her because I'm not the tip I'm

790
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: not the tidiest housekeeper myself. But the sheer amount of

791
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: stuff that everybody reported being strewn about, oh yeah, they

792
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: said it was just a mess. Yeah, but not not

793
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: likely to be from a struggle. Uh. There were also

794
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: no marks in her body, no signs, you know, no,

795
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously the corner is going to look at

796
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: her over very carefully. Yeah, because she's twenty years old

797
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: and she's dead. I mean, so you're definitely gonna look

798
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 1: for any signs of violence, her foul play, and she

799
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: was examined carefully. There were no puncture marks, no bruises,

800
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: no scratches, nothing, absolutely nothing, no outward signs of anything. Yeah,

801
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 1: obviously no signs of rape. Obviously that would be pretty

802
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: obvious if that had happened, right, I'm not going to

803
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: say yes to that. Yeah. I don't think that's always

804
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: as obvious as one might be led to believe. But

805
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: I also think that sometimes the corner has to be

806
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,479
Speaker 1: looking for that. So I'm not gonna I'm not gonna

807
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: be on the bandwagon. I don't think she was raped.

808
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: I'm just to that. Yeah, it's going to be obvious statement. Yeah,

809
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess there are ways you could have

810
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: There are ways you could have concealed it. Who knows.

811
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: It's also I think a lot of people underestimate how

812
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: hard it is to redress a sleeping, unconscious body, dead weight. Yeah,

813
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: it's hard. It's hard enough to dress a live person's

814
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: trying to help you. How many times you've tried to

815
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: dress a dead body? I have not ever, but I

816
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: do have a lot of experience dressing live bodies who

817
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 1: are trying to help you, and it's not easy. But yeah,

818
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: they're just like, no, yeah, sixteen pounds or how much

819
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: your toddler ways I don't know obviously, but probably thirty.

820
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: But the point is, yeah, I would not be hard

821
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: to I mean it would. I think you. I think

822
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,479
Speaker 1: that the police would be able to say, Okay, there's

823
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: something off about this, particularly if it was you know,

824
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: twenty year old girl in two thousand eleven. Jeans are tight, absolutely,

825
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,800
Speaker 1: and I agree Morgan did have a prescription for amateripolians,

826
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: I think, I said, but in a bottle was found

827
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 1: in your room. It had twelve tablets in it. You

828
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: know what percentage of the pills that was? Like? Was

829
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: that a small amount of the total prescription? I'm assuming

830
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 1: this prescription was that, you know what, thirty pills, probably,

831
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: I mean, but I could have been for a larger amount.

832
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: I don't know, I really now. Typically when I get

833
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: a prescription, that's usually thirty pills. It's an ongoing Sometimes

834
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 1: I'll get fifty. Yeah, I was gonna something I've been

835
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 1: on for a long time, so I looked up amateurplane

836
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: and it really depends on the frequency of the dosage,

837
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,280
Speaker 1: and then that of course dictates the strength of the dosage.

838
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: Once a day is going to be probably stronger pill

839
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,399
Speaker 1: than somebody who has to take three times a day,

840
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: and that's going to influence how many pills you get

841
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: and for how long you're gonna be taking them. I mean, again,

842
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: it's an ongoing thing. You figure, Okay, let's just presume

843
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,399
Speaker 1: three a day. Thirty something sounds right, But I don't

844
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: know if you're probably gonna get ninety at a time,

845
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: and you don't want to be refilling it everything. Well,

846
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 1: that's the thing. I don't know. I mean, she had

847
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: just recently been put on the medication. It wasn't as

848
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,720
Speaker 1: if it was something that she had been taking for years.

849
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: And then, yeah, it's probably a smaller That's why I'm

850
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: saying it was probably a smaller amount. But I think

851
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 1: it was twenty and I don't think their parents reported

852
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: that she didn't actually like taking it and she didn't

853
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,760
Speaker 1: take it if she didn't have to, which is funny

854
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: because that conflicts with some other things that I read

855
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: in regards to the dosages that she was self administering

856
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: for some of her medication for for like purposes. But okay,

857
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: but let's be fair. Just because she was self administering

858
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,439
Speaker 1: other doses of other medications doesn't mean that she would

859
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 1: have done the same with this, because the way that

860
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: different medications affect you, if this one is causing her

861
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,359
Speaker 1: to have some no asia or disassociate or whatever, she's

862
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: going to be less likely to want to take this

863
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 1: than other ones that are affecting her in a positive

864
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: That is true if she's experiencing that, but it also

865
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that she couldn't have been upping her dose

866
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: on her for what I was talking about. For though,

867
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 1: the things that she was taking is she was on

868
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: Gaba penton uh Gaba penton, which is um it's an

869
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: epilepsy or a seizure medication, which I guess she had

870
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: had for a long time. The medication, not seizures. Correct

871
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 1: the medication, and Steve apparently was the one who would

872
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: give it to her. Accept that. At one point after

873
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: her death, he had reported to one of the police

874
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,840
Speaker 1: officers that I, let's just say she was supposed to

875
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: be taking one every twelve hours or something, she was

876
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 1: taking instead of one at a time, she tripled the

877
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 1: dose and she was taking three of them at a

878
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: time and at the same interval or she's a normal interval.

879
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 1: She had just decided for whatever reason, she was upping

880
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: her dosage. Now I don't know what the reason or

881
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 1: cause of any of that is and what the implications are.

882
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: I mean, medication overdoses are bad and they mix weird,

883
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: but it's just when she starts upping, upping one makes

884
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: me wonder if she's upping them all maybe, I um,

885
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 1: and I don't know what the side effects of that

886
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: is there are because maybe maybe that I've heard reports

887
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: that she was using some meds for recreational use um

888
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: and that's not on herlither yeah, and so no, it's not.

889
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,919
Speaker 1: And she also had some other recreational drugs she was taking.

890
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: I just I'm sorry. I just looked up gab pentum

891
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: and it treats nerve pain, so it is an anti convulsant. So,

892
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: but it also treats nerve pain, which means that dolls pain,

893
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,439
Speaker 1: which means it's a pain killer, which is probably why

894
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: her father was the one who was trying to administer

895
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: it to her. But also if you took a couple

896
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 1: of those, I can imagine that that would um, that

897
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 1: would zown you out a little bit. Yeah, it might

898
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: be something that's I mean, there are certain medications that

899
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: it's like there's no recreational validity to that drug at all,

900
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 1: and then there are others that do have those side

901
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: effects or those effects. But damn it, again, I feel

902
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,360
Speaker 1: like the jerk here because that immediately makes me wonder,

903
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: what are her parents not telling us, Like again, they

904
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 1: make her just sound like she's this perfect angel, and

905
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: yet there's these signs of possibly larger and other things

906
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: going on that we're not being told about. So do

907
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: we want to put a pin in this and finish

908
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 1: them and then we'll talk about other stuff. So there

909
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: were no pills of the Yeah, there were no pills

910
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 1: in your stomach in the autopsy, you know, they looked

911
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: at the contents of her stomach obviously, and they didn't

912
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 1: see any pills in there. Although there's and and the

913
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: parents are big on this, they're they're they're like, wow,

914
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,879
Speaker 1: she had these pills in her bedroom that she could

915
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 1: have taken commit suicide. But no pills were found in

916
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: your stomach, So that's suspicious. But on the other hand,

917
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 1: her stalkers or stalker could have gotten some of this

918
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: liquid am trip to Leane and then somehow introduced it

919
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: into her body, either to a hypodermic or by forcing

920
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: or to swallow it and etcetera, etcetera. So that proves

921
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: in their mind that it was probably murder. Did you

922
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: see the quantity what's that? Did you see the quantity

923
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: that's listed from the medical examiner of how much she

924
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 1: had in her Oh yeah, it was. It was a

925
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: very high level. And the mill leaters, Oh yeah, no,

926
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: that was it was really high. And they eventually revisited

927
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: the case a little bit. They actually because they looked

928
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: at the contents of her stomach. Well, I think the

929
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: pills just dissolved and so, but but they they actually

930
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 1: had the contents of her stomach in storage, and so

931
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 1: they got it back out, sent into a lab, looked

932
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: at it, and what they found in there was basically

933
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: in her the equivalent of about eighteen tablets of am

934
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: in her stomach. In your stomach, she's just not in pillform. Yeah,

935
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: because it dissolved, because you've got all this acid. And

936
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if you noticed just a lot of

937
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: pills that some of the pills that I take, I

938
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 1: put them on my tongue and the immediately start. I

939
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: was just I was just looking up the dissolved times

940
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: and someone and I this is literally a cursory Google search,

941
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: So please don't, you know, crucify me for this. But

942
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 1: somebody was saying that those gelatine tabs that you fill up,

943
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: you know, the little capsules, are like an hour max

944
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 1: to dissolve. So she would have had to have been

945
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: alive for an hour or at least her Yeah, she

946
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 1: couldn't would have been It doesn't go neutral with YEA

947
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: believe it or not. Yeah, so it's reasonable to assume

948
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 1: that in sometime in the hours that you know, transpired

949
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 1: between taking pills and they would have totally dissolved. Yeah, yeah,

950
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: I think. So that's the end of the murder theory.

951
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 1: It's not really Yeah, and oh yeah, there's a dog

952
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: in the house. Yeah, we're talking about the puppy. Yeah. Cute, Yeah,

953
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 1: super cute puppy. The dog would have barked, don't you think. Yeah,

954
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: to a major struggle. Yeah, a major struggle. And Steve

955
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: and Tony seemed to not be sleeping well as is.

956
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 1: You know, lights were waking them up. I can only

957
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:22,399
Speaker 1: imagine what a struggle would Yeah, you would think, huh. Yeah.

958
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 1: This is another interesting thing about this is you think

959
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: they would have bumped their security a bit, like maybe

960
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 1: an alarmed or an actual physical key. Yeah for the door,

961
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:37,320
Speaker 1: no more keypad. Yeah I'm leaving that alone. Yeah. Or

962
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: if nothing else, you you put a pile of you

963
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 1: stack up a pile of empty beer cans by all

964
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: the doors, you know. Yeah, every night, honey, I can't

965
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 1: go up bed. I haven't armed the security system. Yeah. Okay,

966
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: so next there we've kind of been talking around, right, Yeah, suicide. Um,

967
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 1: did I imagine that amateripoline is used to treat I

968
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 1: think I did depression and anxiety. Yeah. Yeah. Her parents

969
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: did report that she had been a little down before

970
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 1: her death, and she'd lost interest in some of her

971
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: user activities. She was she was playing the piano, she

972
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 1: was into dancing and stuff. She was taking classes to

973
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: be a yoga instructor. Yeah, I mean, she done a

974
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: whole bunch of art courses. Of course. I said she

975
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: preferred not to take the a trip line, but she

976
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: did have it handy, and it certainly would be a

977
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 1: handy way to kill yourself if you chose to. Again,

978
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: I talked about the context of her stomach, which was

979
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: the equivalent of about eighteen milliground pills that they have

980
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 1: a triple line, which if she had a bottle that

981
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: had a thirty eighteen equals twelve, which is how many

982
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: there were exactly. So, although that would mean that she

983
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: didn't ever take any of them before this one night,

984
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 1: well yeah, so she wouldn't have known if she didn't

985
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 1: like to take it. Yeah, Now, well, she would have

986
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: been refilled before. I mean, it's like she might have.

987
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: But you know, it may well be that it was

988
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 1: like ninety pills. I mean, I don't know how many

989
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 1: pills were in that thing. You know, I have no idea.

990
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: I'm not saying the eighteen minus thirty really actually proves anything.

991
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 1: Joe was just made up math to prove a point

992
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:12,919
Speaker 1: that he doesn't know works. Math is overrated, actually don't work.

993
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 1: I think actually that is maths is just making up

994
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 1: things to prove a point and then coming back later

995
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 1: and saying, oh, no, you're right right. So, I mean,

996
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: I think it's not unreasonable to say that she killed

997
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: herself intentionally or otherwise, that it was suicide. Yeah, I mean,

998
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 1: I can't believe this accidental overdose. I was gonna what

999
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 1: I was gonna say is that I'm sorry, but if

1000
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 1: I grab a handful of pills and wash them down,

1001
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 1: I'm probably pretty sure that there's going to be negative

1002
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: consequences to that. Nobody takes some by accident. I mean,

1003
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 1: I knew. I knew kids who took aspirin, a boatload

1004
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 1: of aspirin because they thought it was going to have

1005
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:59,720
Speaker 1: a negative effect on them. People know lots of pills

1006
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 1: you was a bad thing. Yeah, that's one of the

1007
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: first things when when I was a little kid growing up,

1008
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: My mother remem mother told me is that, hey, you

1009
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 1: can't be swallowing all this stuff. If you want to

1010
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 1: take one, take one, but don't take a bunch of them,

1011
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 1: because yeah, when I was a kid, by the way,

1012
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 1: they didn't have child proof caps. They just relied on

1013
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: you your parents smacking your cross. Yeah. Yeah, I mean,

1014
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 1: I agree, especially if it's eighteen pills um. But you know,

1015
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: she was on a lot of other stuff, and she

1016
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:30,439
Speaker 1: didn't really like to take the pills. And I don't

1017
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 1: necessarily know if they were all taken in one fell

1018
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 1: swoop or it was. You know, she took a couple

1019
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 1: and didn't feel anything. She was stressed out, she was anxious,

1020
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 1: she was like really really paranoid. So she popped a

1021
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:45,800
Speaker 1: couple and waited and they didn't they didn't seem to

1022
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 1: be working, and popped a couple more. And you know,

1023
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 1: maybe and she was on medical marijuana as well, and

1024
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,760
Speaker 1: you know, maybe she just kept forgetting that she'd already

1025
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: taken it. Well, I don't think forgetting, but I think

1026
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: maybe you're you're just kind of you're not really paying

1027
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 1: atten and so on. The accidental suicide camp, though, is

1028
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: that Joe is using the math of these being pills,

1029
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 1: But I was looking at stuff that was saying that

1030
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: it could be up to a hundred or a hundred

1031
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 1: and fifty to two hundred milligrams, So that really would

1032
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 1: have been seven pills. So that wouldn't have been as

1033
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 1: many pills as we've we've been making it out to be.

1034
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: I just I realized I looked at my notes, it's like, oh, oh, hell,

1035
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,839
Speaker 1: they can be large dosages at times. How many how

1036
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 1: many milligrams did they say we're in? So when I

1037
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 1: looked at the Corners information or the Emmy's info, it

1038
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: was listed in milli leaders because it was in a

1039
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: liquid form at that point, which isn't always Miller leaders

1040
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 1: and milligrams aren't always a one to one ratio when

1041
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 1: it comes to medication, and the effects of one milli

1042
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 1: leader is not always the same. But it was seventy

1043
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 1: hundred million leaders. It's like, and I don't know if

1044
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 1: that's including all the fluids or what might have had

1045
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 1: to have been. It was like three times a lethal

1046
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:04,919
Speaker 1: dose or something like that. It was a big number.

1047
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 1: It was. It was high, and frankly, if they're measuring liquid,

1048
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 1: I don't know that you can necessarily say, and this

1049
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 1: portion is how much. Well, I think the lab might

1050
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 1: be able to though, because it was on a lab

1051
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: report that was spitting out that was saying this negative, this, negative, this,

1052
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 1: and it's just like it was a sheet of everything

1053
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 1: negative until we got to this medication and then it

1054
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:30,879
Speaker 1: said positive, and then it had a unit number next

1055
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 1: to it. So that's why maybe there presuming a m

1056
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 1: the equivalent of how much would have been present in

1057
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: her entire system. I don't know a lab tech and

1058
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:46,479
Speaker 1: I apologize I probably butchered that, but that's my guests. Yeah,

1059
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not sure how they infer these things,

1060
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 1: but I'm sure, I'm sure it's easy to do if

1061
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: you got the right equipment and you know what you're doing,

1062
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: and you know whether she took eighteen milligram pills or

1063
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:02,919
Speaker 1: nine fifty milligram pills. I mean, I don't know, but yeah,

1064
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 1: I don't. I didn't even know what what strengths amateripoline

1065
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: actually comes in, and but she took the equivalent of

1066
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 1: there's that's pretty much it. Another clue regarding the suicide

1067
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:19,320
Speaker 1: theory is another detective from the Sheriff's office grabbed Morgan's

1068
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: diary and took a look at it, and the entries

1069
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 1: were undated, so it's not certain when this was written

1070
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 1: or if it was written on the date of death.

1071
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 1: But the last sentence in the diary is quote, I've

1072
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 1: completely lost my cool unquote, so not exactly suicidal, but

1073
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 1: not really positive and upbeat either. Um, I don't know.

1074
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if that means anything or not. There

1075
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:44,320
Speaker 1: are reports of her having and and the stocking, I

1076
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 1: understand is why everybody's gonna point to this when I

1077
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: say it. But behavioral changes on her part. She she had,

1078
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 1: really she changed and yeah, I get it. You're being

1079
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,879
Speaker 1: stalked that free shoo out. You're going to change your path,

1080
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,720
Speaker 1: tarns in your interests in all of that. If indeed

1081
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 1: the stocking is real, what we haven't talked about is

1082
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:13,320
Speaker 1: that she may have been experiencing some kind of psychosis,

1083
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 1: whether from the medication or just naturally occurring. That may

1084
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:24,439
Speaker 1: have been what's going on, And it's just hearing things.

1085
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 1: What she hears, those tap tap taps on the windows. Yes,

1086
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 1: I mean we talked about she's doing medical marijuana, and

1087
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 1: there's hind no A fair number of people who smoke

1088
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,920
Speaker 1: pot and they get super paranoid, so that that's a

1089
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 1: very possible thing. She could have been having some kind

1090
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 1: of psychosis and the medication was actually causing it, because

1091
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 1: there are side effects, like sort of hallucinatory side effects

1092
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: that could be completely the culprit. On the other hand,

1093
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 1: one of the things, I mean, when you look at

1094
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: the medications she was taking and the symptoms she had

1095
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 1: a aparently been describing, it's not unlikely that she was

1096
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: suffering from panic attacks. And you know, one of the

1097
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: things psychosis does sometimes go with, It doesn't always go with,

1098
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 1: but sometimes goes with panic attacks, and that can include

1099
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 1: auditory hallucinations, it can include delusions, it can include paranoia,

1100
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: It includes a lot of different mental factors as well

1101
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 1: as that you know, heart racing that she was describing

1102
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 1: that we've seen she was describing. She was on some

1103
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 1: pills for pain that thin. Yeah, and you know, again,

1104
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: to be fair, I was on beta blockers for migraines

1105
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 1: um but so you can be on those for a

1106
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 1: lot of different things. But if she was having this

1107
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 1: chest pain and she was having these panic attacks, and

1108
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: it sounds like the medications she was on were to

1109
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 1: control that anxiety, and she had been complaining about chest

1110
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 1: pains a lot in the two weeks prior to her death,

1111
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 1: and I really can't. I mean, I do think she

1112
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 1: had to have been having panic attacks. I've read those reports.

1113
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: I am not an anxiety written person, but I would

1114
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 1: have been having panic attacks if I were in the

1115
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 1: situation that she was in, whether real or not. Okay,

1116
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 1: So suicide is a pretty credible theory, you know, Frankly,

1117
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 1: it's a lot of intentional or accidental. Our next theory

1118
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: is varying on suicide, which is suicide. And also the

1119
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 1: stocking never actually happened. There were reasons to doubt that

1120
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 1: the actual existence of the stocking to begin with, and

1121
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 1: the reason there are reasons to doubt Tony Ingram's credibility.

1122
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 1: She's the one that maintains apparently Morgen Ingram dot com.

1123
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 1: And there's some things out there that, frankly, I kind

1124
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 1: of question. This is one of those. This is one

1125
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 1: of those situations where I always worry when there's basically

1126
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 1: a single source for the story. Yeah, if it wasn't

1127
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: for the fact that the police keeps such good records

1128
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 1: and those were available, yeah, we would have one source

1129
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 1: for this story. Yeah, and it would be you know,

1130
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 1: and and originally this story it's not too long ago.

1131
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 1: I don't remember what it was to and twelve or whatever,

1132
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 1: and it came to the attention to web sleues and

1133
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 1: then um uh, that thread was created. It was a

1134
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 1: story of this girl who had been stocked and terrorized

1135
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 1: and it was murdered and found dead, and a lot

1136
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 1: of people took it really seriously at first, and then

1137
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 1: eventually people begin to have their doubts about it. Um

1138
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 1: and but it's apparently even for webs loues, it's pretty

1139
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 1: freaking huge threat. It's like almost three thousand pages huge.

1140
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 1: It's enormous. I didn't even try to get through it

1141
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 1: because I mean, frankly, getting through webs loues. And this

1142
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 1: is not to put anybody down to posts there, you know,

1143
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 1: because there are a good posts out there, But getting

1144
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 1: through web sluice is you gotta read a whole lot

1145
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 1: of stuff to find a single nugget of good solid information.

1146
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 1: I wouldn't put that just against websites. Oh yeah, no,

1147
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: you're right, it is any forum. Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm

1148
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 1: gonna I'm trying to actually conceptualized reach, a conceptualization of

1149
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 1: a forum that can actually find a way to segregate

1150
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:04,439
Speaker 1: the useful stuff from just, you know, the fluff. I haven't.

1151
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 1: I haven't figured out a way to do it yet,

1152
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 1: but I'm really trying to thick hard. We're going to

1153
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 1: be millionaires. Yeah I know, I know. But where were

1154
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: we anyway? Oh? Yeah? So uh so it really is.

1155
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 1: You can see why this could attract a certain sort

1156
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 1: of attention and then people would be like really super sympathetic.

1157
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 1: But then when you really know the facts of the case, Well,

1158
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 1: first off, let's start here. Was Morgan really as terrorized

1159
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: as Tony claimed she was? And it's hard to tell

1160
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 1: because Morgan herself when the police talked to her, they

1161
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 1: didn't she didn't seem that concern. The Detective glass Myers

1162
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 1: report of October third, two thou eleven says, and I

1163
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 1: quote Morrigan seems to be more bothered by trying to

1164
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 1: catch the suspects. Morgan would rather ignore the harassment and

1165
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 1: continue living her life. Unquote. Well, okay, we haven't actually

1166
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 1: said yet. I don't think maybe we did that. The

1167
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 1: way that Tony heard about the raw hitting Morgan's window

1168
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: as Morgan would text her from her from her bedroom,

1169
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 1: her mom's bedroom on the other side of their house, right,

1170
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 1: which was a big house. But I just think, but

1171
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 1: I think that's an important note as well, is that

1172
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,080
Speaker 1: whether Morgan seemed like she was more bothered by trying

1173
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 1: to catch the suspects or not, at the very least,

1174
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: she was also providing information to Tony. At least Tony

1175
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 1: says she was providing information. I suspect that the detectives

1176
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 1: actually went and found the text logs and found that

1177
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 1: she had actually been texting her mom. I'm sure they did.

1178
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know why they wouldn't. They were

1179
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 1: pretty thorough. They were very thorough. So but you know, actually,

1180
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I I read I read the report.

1181
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 1: I read the report that in Tony's diary. I read

1182
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: that the entries talking about the text But I read

1183
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 1: glass Bowers reports especially, and he was pretty thorough. He

1184
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 1: never once mentioned actually getting their phones and looking at

1185
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 1: their text messages, and I would think it's possible that

1186
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: he didn't. But I just I do want to mention

1187
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 1: that as as bothered as Morgan may have seemed about

1188
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 1: the investigation, she was reporting at least reportedly reporting that

1189
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 1: stuff was going on, right, it would have been pretty

1190
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 1: easy for her to just say, mom, no it stopped, No,

1191
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:16,959
Speaker 1: it stopped. If she had been serious about just wanting

1192
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 1: to deal with the harassment for the rest of her life,

1193
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 1: she would have just said, no, it stopped. It's fine,

1194
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 1: everything's fine, and people don't do that. But she could have.

1195
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: But I want to I want to take us down

1196
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 1: a slight side road for a second, which is something

1197
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: we haven't talked about, which is the rocks. Rocks are

1198
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 1: being thrown at her window. Pebbles, pebbles, not fifth side rocks. Actually, eventually,

1199
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 1: at one point they decided somebody must have been using

1200
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 1: an air soft rifle, and so they did look for this.

1201
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:51,920
Speaker 1: But where where is the pile of rocks under her window?

1202
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 1: That's what I want to know. Because the gutters, yea,

1203
01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 1: in the gutter? What? Yeah? Why not on the gutter? Yeah,

1204
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:03,120
Speaker 1: it bounces off and it's sort of around. Yeah. The

1205
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 1: thing is it's snowing out because it was winter in

1206
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 1: Colorado and there's snow and it is frozen. And if

1207
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 1: somebody is throwing rocks, okay, yeah, it could have been

1208
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 1: a piece of ice. I get it. But if they're

1209
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 1: throwing rocks, there should have been obvious evidence and people

1210
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 1: should have seen it. And if this family is so

1211
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 1: thorough of documenting everything, they should have said, oh my god,

1212
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: there's a pebble outside of her window. Take a picture

1213
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 1: of it, so we have it, and let's get a fingerprinted.

1214
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 1: And I'm being a little facetious here, but there is

1215
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 1: none of that. At the end, at the end of

1216
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 1: four months of tossing pebbles at at Morgan's window, there

1217
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 1: certainly should have been a fairly deger sized pile of

1218
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 1: pebbles under a window. Should have been a small pyramid

1219
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: of gaza there gi. Yeah, if they were using an

1220
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 1: air soft gun, I mean those those pellets are plastic

1221
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 1: and they're brightly colored, and there were none of those either,

1222
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 1: because they did look for the police came by and

1223
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 1: did look for us. I know, I'm taking this down

1224
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:01,400
Speaker 1: the side he But again, if we're going to question

1225
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 1: did this actually happen, where is this stuff? Snowballs? There

1226
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 1: was actually snowballs, Yeah, that could be. But even then

1227
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 1: on the windows, yeah, I know, I mean, I'm assuming

1228
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 1: my theory is that the stoker was using self dissolving

1229
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 1: rocks once you can buy online ice cubes. Actually, yeah,

1230
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 1: it was just ice cubes. Yeah. Well back to back

1231
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 1: to Morgan though for a second. Here as I said, Uh, Morgan,

1232
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 1: I don't think it was as terrorized as Tony says

1233
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 1: she was. The Deck of Glassmire on October thirtieth, filed

1234
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 1: another report. He summarized some conversations that he had with

1235
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:40,800
Speaker 1: Tony Ingram, and here is a quote of what he says.

1236
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 1: Tony said, quote, I know Morgan is very emotionally distraught

1237
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 1: and not thinking clearly. She cries when I talk about

1238
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 1: it and wants to pretend it just isn't happening, unquote.

1239
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 1: So it could be that she was in Morgan was

1240
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:56,200
Speaker 1: in denial, or it could be that Morgan thought her

1241
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 1: mom was just crazy and she wanted to shut up

1242
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 1: about stalking. I mean, I don't really know. I also

1243
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 1: we kind of talked about this a little bit too.

1244
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 1: It's also possible in my mind that like Morgan was

1245
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 1: trying to cover her tracks for sneaking out. Yeah. Maybe, uh,

1246
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 1: you know, maybe Morgan made some of the stuff up

1247
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 1: and then maybe it just got out of hand, some

1248
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 1: kind of attention seeking behavior in the beginning and then

1249
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 1: oh my god, you put in cameras in. The cops

1250
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 1: are here, and mom is going insane. She's stocking Keenan

1251
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 1: now and she literally was. I mean, if anybody was

1252
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:33,400
Speaker 1: a stoker, it was it was the parents and not

1253
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: not Keenan. Well, I mean, I think, you know, it's

1254
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:39,240
Speaker 1: it is possible. She's sneaking out when the weather is

1255
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 1: nicer out her window and trying to cover her tracks

1256
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 1: by you know, her mom says, oh, Morgan, did you

1257
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 1: hear that something was going on with your window last night?

1258
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 1: And she said, oh, yeah, someone was throwing a rock

1259
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 1: at it. It's fine, And then her mom goes, what

1260
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:55,320
Speaker 1: someone's during a rocket your window? You know, she's snuck

1261
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: out once, and it just escalates to this kind of

1262
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 1: fever pitch of terror. Maybe yeah, yeah, but I don't

1263
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:03,280
Speaker 1: I guess I don't really think that's true. But well,

1264
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,240
Speaker 1: you know, there's all kinds of things are possible. Anyway,

1265
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 1: back to back to the credibility of Tony and her claims.

1266
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:15,240
Speaker 1: There is Jared the grandson, which is remember he ran

1267
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 1: and checked Keenan shoes under the guys of hey, do

1268
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:20,520
Speaker 1: you want me to mow your lawn or something like

1269
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 1: that is what he did. Huh yeah, yeah, and uh

1270
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 1: so he's he identifies the footprint is being from that

1271
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 1: niche shoe. Well maybe, and then he follows the first

1272
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:32,160
Speaker 1: car that drives by to see what shoes the drivers wearing. Okay,

1273
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 1: so maybe he plans on checking everybody in the whole subdivision.

1274
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. And eureka, he looks out of it's

1275
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:41,600
Speaker 1: a pair of yeah, yeah, a little Sherlock Holmes there.

1276
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:43,920
Speaker 1: It turns out to be a pair of a pair

1277
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 1: of purple Etnis. This is uh. I don't know Jared

1278
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:48,080
Speaker 1: said this or not, but this is what Tony in

1279
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 1: her diary said. He said purple Etneys. And I checked

1280
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 1: their website and I don't see any purple shoes in

1281
01:07:55,360 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 1: their catalog. Sorry, I just I'm just saying, that's that's

1282
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:04,080
Speaker 1: a pair of purple Atkneys. They really did? Really? Yeah,

1283
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 1: well they're mostly black. They're mostly black. But I don't

1284
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:10,720
Speaker 1: I doesn't I remember those shoes. I remember them being

1285
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:13,920
Speaker 1: cool at that time. Um so I guess it wouldn't

1286
01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:17,240
Speaker 1: really surprise me so much. If you know Jared, it

1287
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 1: was a small town, and you know, he was like, oh,

1288
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 1: that guy's got cool shoes. What kind of shoes of

1289
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:24,599
Speaker 1: the O, the purple, their Etney's and then he saw us, uh,

1290
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:26,600
Speaker 1: you know, for whatever reason. And this is not to

1291
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:30,240
Speaker 1: say that Keenan was stalking around the house. He could

1292
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:33,600
Speaker 1: have taken a shortcut through the back and left a footprint.

1293
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:36,439
Speaker 1: But he goes, oh you know what, that guy, um, Keenan,

1294
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 1: he has those cool Antkneys. I should go see those

1295
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 1: to see if there he is? Right? There? Is he

1296
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 1: wearing them? Now? Oh yeah? Yeah. And we don't know

1297
01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 1: how old this kid is at this point. It could

1298
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:49,800
Speaker 1: be I'm not really sure. Okay, let's just say he's

1299
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 1: a preteen and he gets swept up in in in

1300
01:08:54,479 --> 01:09:00,760
Speaker 1: Tony's excitement. Kids do that. They're in the case. They're

1301
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 1: gonna fix it, they're gonna solve it, and they found

1302
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 1: the clue. I mean yeah. I will just also add

1303
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:10,760
Speaker 1: that the souls of Antney shoes usually say Etney and

1304
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:14,040
Speaker 1: then well no. Um. The other thing though, is that

1305
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 1: is that they were pretty popular at the time. Oh yeah, absolutely.

1306
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that that means that it was

1307
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 1: Keenan's shoes. I'm just saying it would not be insane

1308
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:24,680
Speaker 1: to me to think that somebody had noticed that that

1309
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 1: one guy has that cool pair of Antney's and like,

1310
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:30,080
Speaker 1: let's see if he's wearing them right now. Yeah, okay,

1311
01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 1: that works, except, of course we still don't know it

1312
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:34,720
Speaker 1: was him, because for sure, no, no, no, yeah, I

1313
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:37,760
Speaker 1: totally agree with that. Yeah. Yeah, back to back to

1314
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:41,320
Speaker 1: Tony and her claims, Uh, there's the missing driver's license.

1315
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 1: But you can totally picture a serial killer taking a

1316
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:48,360
Speaker 1: driver's license as a souvenirs are a big thing. Yeah. Sure,

1317
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:52,919
Speaker 1: but the police December two, the day of they searched

1318
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:56,360
Speaker 1: Tony's car, which Morgan had been in the night before,

1319
01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 1: and they found Morgan's driver's license in there and she

1320
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 1: just left in the car, Yeah, Morrigan. Ingram dot com

1321
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:04,920
Speaker 1: still claims that the driver's license was taken. The date

1322
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:07,640
Speaker 1: rape drug thing. They say on there that amaterip de

1323
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 1: lane is a date rape drug. Insufficient quantities, but it isn't.

1324
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:14,480
Speaker 1: I have heard that if you mix it with alcohol,

1325
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:17,240
Speaker 1: it can have an effect similar to real hypnol. But

1326
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:21,400
Speaker 1: Morgan didn't have any alcohol or system. Yeah, and I

1327
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:27,320
Speaker 1: tried to track some stuff down and the well, I

1328
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 1: know I didn't. I did the whole date rape drug

1329
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:37,440
Speaker 1: thing and again is I looked up this drug specifically

1330
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:40,880
Speaker 1: trying to find some stuff, and there's not a lot.

1331
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:46,840
Speaker 1: And it's it's really it's inconclusive. It's it's not as

1332
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:50,760
Speaker 1: if it's a It blatantly does this, and if you

1333
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:53,960
Speaker 1: combine it with this, this or this, you're gonna be

1334
01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:58,439
Speaker 1: knocked out and completely compliance to whoever is with you.

1335
01:10:59,439 --> 01:11:03,040
Speaker 1: It's not a very it's not a clear cut case all.

1336
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 1: But let's be fair. That's not necessarily information you want

1337
01:11:06,160 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 1: to post on the internet. But I hate to tell

1338
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:12,840
Speaker 1: you this, The information I was reading was on a

1339
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:16,639
Speaker 1: frigging forum, so the people who were responsible for trying

1340
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:20,920
Speaker 1: to control that information cannot control the forum. Yeah. And

1341
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 1: and just as a warning to anybody might take our

1342
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:26,240
Speaker 1: information and run with it. If you can bind drugs,

1343
01:11:26,479 --> 01:11:28,439
Speaker 1: you know, you can actually kill somebody, So you might

1344
01:11:28,479 --> 01:11:30,599
Speaker 1: not just be guilty of rape, it'll be guilty of murder.

1345
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:33,519
Speaker 1: So just don't do it, Okay, exactly, that's outfair, Okay,

1346
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:37,000
Speaker 1: So that's like a good call. Yeah. So there's more

1347
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:43,679
Speaker 1: stolen stuff though besides the stolen the stolen jewelry, remember that. Yeah, Yeah,

1348
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 1: so her jewelry was missing. Uh, but that was that

1349
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:52,599
Speaker 1: was actually not reported to police until April, twelve months

1350
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:55,880
Speaker 1: after Morgan and died. Four months, yeah, four months. Keenan

1351
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:58,360
Speaker 1: van Ginkel got into a little trouble with the law.

1352
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:01,200
Speaker 1: He sold several is a gold jewelry at one of

1353
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:03,120
Speaker 1: those we by gold places. I think it was called

1354
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:06,800
Speaker 1: gold for cash and he was whichever one. Yeah, he

1355
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:09,920
Speaker 1: was arrested on suspicion of receiving stolen property. And it

1356
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:12,280
Speaker 1: turns out he had in his person some marijuana, had

1357
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:15,360
Speaker 1: a pipe, which his possession of either one of those

1358
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:20,439
Speaker 1: was illegal, not anymore, but then in Colorado, I know

1359
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:24,120
Speaker 1: he was looking at that. Two later, I'm still dealing

1360
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:29,280
Speaker 1: with a rap for getting caught with pod. Everybody I

1361
01:12:29,439 --> 01:12:33,720
Speaker 1: know he uh. The stolen property charges were dropped, but

1362
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:36,840
Speaker 1: the POD charges stuck. Of course. After Tony learned of this,

1363
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:40,280
Speaker 1: she emailed Detective glass Bar and told him that mortgage

1364
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 1: jewelry was missing, and it had been missing since the

1365
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:45,519
Speaker 1: night of the murder, and she later revised this and

1366
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:48,200
Speaker 1: this is my email arises too while some of the

1367
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:51,479
Speaker 1: jewelry was gone, but they weren't sure which pieces have

1368
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 1: been taken, and Glassbar told her that they couldn't investigate

1369
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:59,560
Speaker 1: the crime unless the England Pilot police report on the

1370
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:02,799
Speaker 1: stolen property, and he encouraged them to file a report

1371
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 1: on that. Well, the Ingram's never did. However, their website

1372
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:11,479
Speaker 1: still claims that Drewler was stolen. They they had it

1373
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:15,280
Speaker 1: really hard for him, like he was there there only

1374
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:21,120
Speaker 1: suspect they were throwing everything they could at him. I'm not.

1375
01:13:21,320 --> 01:13:28,519
Speaker 1: I I understand the last viable, known responsible party. We've

1376
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:33,519
Speaker 1: got to put everything into getting justice. I think it's

1377
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 1: a little misdirected, but I understand why they were going

1378
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:39,800
Speaker 1: after him so hard. I understand it too. But and

1379
01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:41,760
Speaker 1: I'll get into this little a little bit later, but

1380
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:46,160
Speaker 1: it's just totally it totally is out of hand. Oh yes, yeah,

1381
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:49,840
Speaker 1: I would really agree. It got pretty wild. Yeah, it's

1382
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:51,640
Speaker 1: it still is out there. I mean, I mean that

1383
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:54,880
Speaker 1: website is still out there with all of this many accusations.

1384
01:13:56,280 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 1: Another reason that to question Tony's integrity here, which is

1385
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:05,040
Speaker 1: Brooke Brooke Harris so girlfriend, Yeah, Keenan's girlfriend. I keep

1386
01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:08,760
Speaker 1: wanting to say Kegan and myself, I used to work

1387
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 1: with a guy named Kegan, and so it's like and

1388
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:12,880
Speaker 1: so I never worked with a guy named Keenan. Got it.

1389
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:16,679
Speaker 1: At least you didn't work with Keanu in the movie.

1390
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:19,200
Speaker 1: What do you mean at least you didn't, because because

1391
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:21,320
Speaker 1: if if you worked in that movie, you would go

1392
01:14:21,479 --> 01:14:23,600
Speaker 1: to with a kitten. It looked like that you'd go

1393
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:25,880
Speaker 1: to stupid length to do whatever you had to for

1394
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:28,680
Speaker 1: that cute kitten. What you guys look at me like

1395
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:30,760
Speaker 1: you haven't seen that movie. Of course I've seen that movie.

1396
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:35,519
Speaker 1: I have not seen that movie that We'll talk to Joe.

1397
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:37,920
Speaker 1: Let's keep going. Oh my god, all right, I don't

1398
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:40,280
Speaker 1: want to get you sidetracked with cats. Okay, that's a

1399
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:44,080
Speaker 1: good point. Uh. So remember, for the first part of

1400
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 1: our saga, the only suspect in the Ingram's thing was Keenan.

1401
01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 1: That was it, but that it turned out that Keenan

1402
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:55,520
Speaker 1: had been out of state for three days in September

1403
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 1: and seven days in November. I think it was on

1404
01:14:58,120 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 1: a hunting trip at one point. Yeah, there, I think

1405
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 1: they of both hunting trips and uh and of course

1406
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:05,960
Speaker 1: some of the incidents occurred during those time periods. And

1407
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:09,160
Speaker 1: then also when they checked his work records, well, uh,

1408
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 1: he was on the job when a lot of these

1409
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:14,479
Speaker 1: incidents occurred too, So that kind of would have you

1410
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:16,920
Speaker 1: think that would rule him out as a suspect. But

1411
01:15:17,080 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 1: then yeah, Tony and Steve decided, well, that must mean

1412
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 1: that Brooke is in the conspiracy too. Yeah, even though

1413
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:26,760
Speaker 1: and so they started accusing Brooke also being in on this,

1414
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:29,360
Speaker 1: and even though they had broken up I think by

1415
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:34,519
Speaker 1: this time. Nonetheless, Yeah, so it's crazy. But and as

1416
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:36,720
Speaker 1: far as the claimed that the police did not investigate,

1417
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:39,360
Speaker 1: there was a lot of follow up by police, you know,

1418
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:42,680
Speaker 1: long after Morgan's death. They did continue to pursue the

1419
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 1: possibility of the maybe a murder, And certainly Tony was

1420
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:50,559
Speaker 1: all over the Sheriff's office and there was tons of contact,

1421
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:52,880
Speaker 1: and it's all on the reports, all the emails, all

1422
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 1: the phone conversations, pushing the idea that Keenan was a

1423
01:15:57,000 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 1: serial killer in the Audia auDA YadA uh. In March

1424
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:03,400
Speaker 1: two to two thousand twelve, Glassmyer Brock Keenan in for

1425
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:07,040
Speaker 1: another interview. This time he lied to him last Buyer allied.

1426
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:10,120
Speaker 1: He said that some of the some of the driveway

1427
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:13,000
Speaker 1: video had been sent to an independent lab and they

1428
01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:16,640
Speaker 1: had enhanced it again doing that the enhancement bs and

1429
01:16:17,479 --> 01:16:22,320
Speaker 1: and they definitely showed Keenan being in Morgan's driveway. He

1430
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 1: also had a lab report from the same lab. You

1431
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:28,599
Speaker 1: know what's what's said the same thing, essentially totally doctor

1432
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:31,360
Speaker 1: he showed it to Keenan. He probably made it word Yeah, yeah,

1433
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:34,639
Speaker 1: he probably did. And and Keenan still just basically didn't

1434
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:37,479
Speaker 1: according to the police reports, didn't change his story at all.

1435
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:39,759
Speaker 1: It says, I have not been on their property period.

1436
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:42,519
Speaker 1: I don't care what that camera says. And and I

1437
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:45,720
Speaker 1: think he convinced glast Buyer. Actually glass Buyer did ask

1438
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:49,320
Speaker 1: him bog willing to submit to a computer voice stress analyzer.

1439
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:52,400
Speaker 1: Keenan said that he would. Uh. I don't know if

1440
01:16:52,439 --> 01:16:54,240
Speaker 1: that even exists. That might have been another made up

1441
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:57,240
Speaker 1: BS thing. But he you know, the glass Buyer was

1442
01:16:57,240 --> 01:16:59,840
Speaker 1: actually on the case as far as the ingland sticking.

1443
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:02,760
Speaker 1: He was not. Didn't do any investigation. I mean, he

1444
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:05,080
Speaker 1: took their chief suspect, who, by the way, there was

1445
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:09,439
Speaker 1: not a shred of evidence against and still starting the process. Yeah,

1446
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:10,880
Speaker 1: he hammered on him a little bit to try to

1447
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:13,880
Speaker 1: get him to confess, and he didn't do it. So

1448
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:17,400
Speaker 1: that but but nonetheless, the claim that the police didn't

1449
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:21,920
Speaker 1: investigate is still on their website, and you know, and

1450
01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:26,400
Speaker 1: obviously the police did investigate. Uh. There's another another thing

1451
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:29,840
Speaker 1: that really raises my eyebrows, which is this, Um, there

1452
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:33,280
Speaker 1: was an incident. I think it took place on September five,

1453
01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:36,040
Speaker 1: and I mentioned it before. Tony was standing in the

1454
01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:40,160
Speaker 1: fourier of their house. Somebody ran across the saw to

1455
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:43,120
Speaker 1: the windows. He turned, he turned and ran. Uh he

1456
01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:46,320
Speaker 1: ran around the north side of the house. And her

1457
01:17:46,439 --> 01:17:48,360
Speaker 1: husband didn't see this person even though he ran to

1458
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:49,680
Speaker 1: the back of the house and try to see him

1459
01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:52,439
Speaker 1: through the sliding lass doors in the back of the house. Now,

1460
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:55,360
Speaker 1: it's interesting about this is that it wasn't that long

1461
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:59,240
Speaker 1: before this that they had installed a camera above the

1462
01:17:59,320 --> 01:18:00,840
Speaker 1: porch of the house us to the front of the house,

1463
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:03,960
Speaker 1: and this guy was running across, and this guy was

1464
01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:07,120
Speaker 1: not caught on film. That's kind of mysterious to me,

1465
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:12,040
Speaker 1: which makes me believe excuse me for interrupting, was interrupting,

1466
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 1: But it makes me wonder. Obviously Steve didn't see the guy.

1467
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:21,040
Speaker 1: She could have totally made the entire thing up. I mean,

1468
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, but certainly he should have been caught

1469
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:27,920
Speaker 1: on the camera. If you'd run across their driveway and

1470
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:30,640
Speaker 1: around the side of at least one camera and that

1471
01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:33,200
Speaker 1: didn't happen, did it. No? And here's the other thing

1472
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:35,120
Speaker 1: is that you will see on the internet, I know

1473
01:18:35,439 --> 01:18:37,559
Speaker 1: Devin and I were chatting about this earlier. Is the path.

1474
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:41,960
Speaker 1: So there's a burn behind the col de sack that

1475
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:44,439
Speaker 1: separates it from the property this next door, which I

1476
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:47,160
Speaker 1: think is a horse farm, and it's got some roads

1477
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:51,760
Speaker 1: and pastures in it. And if you go uh northeast

1478
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:56,519
Speaker 1: from the house, it'll take you to the intersection of

1479
01:18:57,120 --> 01:19:00,559
Speaker 1: Kenny Road one hundred and is in a state eighty

1480
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 1: two I think it is. I can't remember now on

1481
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:04,679
Speaker 1: the top of my head. I'm too lazy to go. Look,

1482
01:19:04,840 --> 01:19:08,040
Speaker 1: it's Highway eighty two, Highway two. Okay. Well, at that

1483
01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:12,240
Speaker 1: intersection of Highway eighty two in County Road one there's

1484
01:19:12,240 --> 01:19:15,679
Speaker 1: a bus stop. And so there's a couple of things

1485
01:19:15,720 --> 01:19:18,360
Speaker 1: that make me think of what this this supposed um

1486
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:23,680
Speaker 1: stalker path could be. Is it could be somebody who

1487
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:27,240
Speaker 1: doesn't have a car who says, well, let's see, I

1488
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:32,080
Speaker 1: can walk the mile and a half around going along

1489
01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:35,840
Speaker 1: the road for I can kind across the properties that

1490
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:38,479
Speaker 1: are in this cul de sac and the field and

1491
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:41,920
Speaker 1: and you know, cut my trip in half, which is

1492
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:44,439
Speaker 1: gonna explain why if some if people are doing that,

1493
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:47,519
Speaker 1: one or more people are doing that on a regular basis,

1494
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:49,920
Speaker 1: that's gonna wear a path I never mind, could be

1495
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:53,000
Speaker 1: a game path, because it could be game that animals

1496
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:56,479
Speaker 1: that are setting off their motion detectors. Um. But the

1497
01:19:56,600 --> 01:19:59,800
Speaker 1: other thing that I was wondering about, somebody walking their dog.

1498
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:03,599
Speaker 1: I mean, it's entirely I mean, I've brought this up before.

1499
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:06,960
Speaker 1: I've mentioned dogs several times in this, but it's entirely

1500
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:09,479
Speaker 1: possible that somebody on that call to sac has a dog.

1501
01:20:09,840 --> 01:20:13,759
Speaker 1: The backyards aren't fenced in, so somebody could be walking

1502
01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:17,160
Speaker 1: along and then they cut through the neighborhoods they walk this.

1503
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:20,479
Speaker 1: You know what sucks about having a dog picking up poop?

1504
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:24,320
Speaker 1: You know what's awesome about a field. You don't have

1505
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:27,800
Speaker 1: to pick up anything. So you just you cut through

1506
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:30,599
Speaker 1: the berm, You walk your dog out there, the dog

1507
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:34,280
Speaker 1: does its business, dog or dogs, and then you and

1508
01:20:34,360 --> 01:20:37,920
Speaker 1: then you walk back and you let's say that it's

1509
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:40,559
Speaker 1: rural enough that whoever is doing this is not walking

1510
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:44,640
Speaker 1: their dog on a leash. Well, now they're walking their

1511
01:20:44,720 --> 01:20:47,120
Speaker 1: path every time their dogs are falling, that their dogs

1512
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:49,320
Speaker 1: are running all over the property to call the sack,

1513
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:56,000
Speaker 1: setting off motion detectors and cameras like mad like. I've

1514
01:20:56,080 --> 01:20:58,160
Speaker 1: just made these up because I was looking at it.

1515
01:20:58,240 --> 01:21:01,719
Speaker 1: But these are two very plausible reasons for the path

1516
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:06,880
Speaker 1: and possibly for the motion detectors being triggered. Because motion

1517
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:09,920
Speaker 1: detectors are not a straight beam. They throw a very

1518
01:21:10,040 --> 01:21:13,080
Speaker 1: wide arc. My neighbor had one on his shed that

1519
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:16,719
Speaker 1: in my yard. I could wave and it would set

1520
01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:19,840
Speaker 1: it off, and it was pointed in his yard only.

1521
01:21:20,360 --> 01:21:24,240
Speaker 1: So I mean, these things are not perfect. They're not fallible, infallible,

1522
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:29,640
Speaker 1: So I just there's a lot of things. Yeah, Now

1523
01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:32,360
Speaker 1: I just wonder there's there's all sorts of reasons. I mean,

1524
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:35,080
Speaker 1: I I know that, you know, people cut through and

1525
01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:37,479
Speaker 1: across other people's property all the time. It's just not

1526
01:21:37,640 --> 01:21:42,439
Speaker 1: that unusual, and especially when it's kind of a ruralist area. Yeah,

1527
01:21:42,560 --> 01:21:46,680
Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah, So back to another reason to

1528
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:50,599
Speaker 1: wonder about Tony's incredibility here is I talked to Detective

1529
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:53,439
Speaker 1: Glassmire actually just this morning, and we had it was

1530
01:21:53,479 --> 01:21:56,120
Speaker 1: a pretty brief chat. He's left the Sheriff's office. He's

1531
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:58,720
Speaker 1: now Garfield County corner. And he wouldn't comment in the

1532
01:21:58,760 --> 01:22:00,800
Speaker 1: case because he thinks it would be appropriate for him

1533
01:22:00,840 --> 01:22:03,800
Speaker 1: to do it since he's no longer with the Sheriff's Department. Understandable,

1534
01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:07,280
Speaker 1: But he did say an interesting thing, um, because I

1535
01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:10,800
Speaker 1: asked him my first question was did the stocking even happen?

1536
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:13,800
Speaker 1: Because I said, I'm really doubting that it even did,

1537
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:16,519
Speaker 1: and he said, yeah, there are a lot of people

1538
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:18,240
Speaker 1: who doubt it. But other than that, that's all I

1539
01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:21,320
Speaker 1: got out of him. But well, that's not an admission

1540
01:22:21,360 --> 01:22:24,439
Speaker 1: of anything from it's not he wouldn't say. He wouldn't

1541
01:22:24,439 --> 01:22:26,680
Speaker 1: tell me what his personal opinion was, which as a

1542
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:30,320
Speaker 1: professional I totally respect. Yeah, but I respect that too.

1543
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:32,160
Speaker 1: But he did say that a lot of people do

1544
01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:35,840
Speaker 1: doubt it, and so I personally suspect that he probably

1545
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:38,000
Speaker 1: kind of doubts it. I don't want to put words

1546
01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:41,439
Speaker 1: in his mouth, no, nor do I, but I suspect

1547
01:22:41,479 --> 01:22:43,559
Speaker 1: that a lot of people doubt it. But there's there's

1548
01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:45,840
Speaker 1: one last thing about this that really kind of raises

1549
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:49,800
Speaker 1: my eyebrows, um, and that is the security cameras. We

1550
01:22:49,880 --> 01:22:52,760
Speaker 1: talked about their poor qualities, Yeah, their poor quality in

1551
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:55,640
Speaker 1: their lack of findings. Yeah. Yeah, the fact that they

1552
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:57,920
Speaker 1: never got a single frame of usable evidence out of

1553
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:01,040
Speaker 1: any of those cameras, and they put a bunch of

1554
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:03,840
Speaker 1: math there, which really makes you wonder why they didn't

1555
01:23:03,920 --> 01:23:06,400
Speaker 1: upgrade the better quality cameras. In fact, it to me

1556
01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:09,240
Speaker 1: that's kind of unfathomable that they didn't do this. Why

1557
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:12,639
Speaker 1: did they not upgrade the better cameras? Aren't they expensive?

1558
01:23:13,280 --> 01:23:17,680
Speaker 1: Sure they are, but I will so I have a

1559
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:23,040
Speaker 1: family member who has security cameras around their house and

1560
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:27,879
Speaker 1: got them based on the recommendation of somebody and doesn't

1561
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:36,280
Speaker 1: totally understand what they're using. So may not understand. Let's

1562
01:23:36,360 --> 01:23:39,800
Speaker 1: say that this family member that my family member is

1563
01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:42,760
Speaker 1: capturing things and can't figure out what the problem is.

1564
01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:49,160
Speaker 1: May not comprehend that the issue is not with whoever

1565
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:52,200
Speaker 1: is running around that they're trying to capture being so good,

1566
01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:57,240
Speaker 1: but in fact the quality of the camera that I mean,

1567
01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:00,720
Speaker 1: why not get a better camera? But it may not

1568
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:04,080
Speaker 1: comprehend it. That is the problem, is the point that

1569
01:24:04,120 --> 01:24:06,439
Speaker 1: I'm making here. Joe may not realize that the problem

1570
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:09,559
Speaker 1: is you have a crap camera, So they don't. They

1571
01:24:09,560 --> 01:24:11,240
Speaker 1: don't even think that I need to replace it with

1572
01:24:11,280 --> 01:24:13,719
Speaker 1: a better one because they just don't realize the problem.

1573
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:16,920
Speaker 1: Here's the deal. If you're concerned about the issue, and

1574
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:18,960
Speaker 1: you really want to know who your prayer is, then

1575
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:21,160
Speaker 1: you're gonna be asking people. You'll be asking the cops,

1576
01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:23,000
Speaker 1: will be asking the people of the story about the

1577
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:25,240
Speaker 1: camera from You're gonna be asking people, how do I

1578
01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:28,519
Speaker 1: get a good image. I'm not disagreeing with you. Yes,

1579
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:32,679
Speaker 1: if they if they wanted to go to just amazing length,

1580
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:36,520
Speaker 1: they should have ringed the house in I infrared cameras

1581
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:41,799
Speaker 1: and night vision cameras and just recorded seven and invested

1582
01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:45,120
Speaker 1: in some crazy setup. But they didn't do that. But

1583
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:48,040
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I'm not gonna fault them because I

1584
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:52,400
Speaker 1: personally don't know that they didn't realize where their issue

1585
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:55,960
Speaker 1: in getting an image of this person was. They always said,

1586
01:24:56,680 --> 01:25:00,920
Speaker 1: this guy is so widely, he is so good at

1587
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:05,200
Speaker 1: what he's doing that he's evading not only us, he's

1588
01:25:05,240 --> 01:25:09,360
Speaker 1: evading the police. So again, I'm not gonna That's why

1589
01:25:09,439 --> 01:25:12,960
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not saying that that's something to hold too.

1590
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:16,240
Speaker 1: As strongly as you you know, I still think, you know,

1591
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:18,840
Speaker 1: especially as far as the expense of the whole thing.

1592
01:25:18,880 --> 01:25:21,559
Speaker 1: I mean, these people lived in a large, nice modern house.

1593
01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:24,200
Speaker 1: They drove, They drove a land Rover for christ Sex,

1594
01:25:24,320 --> 01:25:26,320
Speaker 1: not a cheap not a cheap ride. And so I

1595
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:28,439
Speaker 1: don't think money was that much of an object for them.

1596
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:31,240
Speaker 1: And I really would have thought that if identifying the

1597
01:25:31,320 --> 01:25:34,599
Speaker 1: PURP was that high in their priority list, I really

1598
01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:36,840
Speaker 1: think they would have gotten better equipment, They would have

1599
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:40,200
Speaker 1: consulted somebody who could have guided them into how to

1600
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:43,920
Speaker 1: get better images. At this point, we're going into what

1601
01:25:44,160 --> 01:25:46,559
Speaker 1: if land and I think we're almost sending a little judge,

1602
01:25:46,680 --> 01:25:49,760
Speaker 1: So I think we need to that's true. That No,

1603
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:52,640
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I find it a little puzzling like that.

1604
01:25:53,240 --> 01:25:55,760
Speaker 1: So you guys have any more thoughts on this this

1605
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:59,720
Speaker 1: mystery and now, yeah, anybody want to cuse No, I mean,

1606
01:26:00,120 --> 01:26:07,439
Speaker 1: it's just sad, totally, the whole situation. It is, especially

1607
01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:10,160
Speaker 1: for the I mean for the family obviously, for Morgan

1608
01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:13,760
Speaker 1: and also for Keenan, who I you know, obviously I

1609
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:18,120
Speaker 1: think very unfairly been accused. I think that pretty famous crimes.

1610
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:21,599
Speaker 1: I'm still of the opinion that I think that something

1611
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:27,160
Speaker 1: was building that was not recognized or diagnosed with and

1612
01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:30,640
Speaker 1: that's what whether this was done intentional, whether it was

1613
01:26:30,760 --> 01:26:35,639
Speaker 1: an intentional or unintentional. I think that something was happening

1614
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:37,479
Speaker 1: with her and she didn't know what was going on.

1615
01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:40,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just just based on what I've seen

1616
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:42,600
Speaker 1: in the behavior and the things. It's just an observation.

1617
01:26:42,760 --> 01:26:47,680
Speaker 1: But that's where I think. Yeah, But anyway, it's it's unfortunate,

1618
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:51,360
Speaker 1: but you know, hopefully everybody sooner or later we'll get

1619
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:53,679
Speaker 1: their acts together and you know, people will live happily

1620
01:26:53,720 --> 01:26:57,000
Speaker 1: ever after. In the meantime, it's still crazy on the internet.

1621
01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:00,720
Speaker 1: So you guys probably wanted some interesting facts about us. Well,

1622
01:27:00,800 --> 01:27:03,280
Speaker 1: let me start from this top. We have a website.

1623
01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:05,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this and that we

1624
01:27:05,240 --> 01:27:08,599
Speaker 1: have a website, can you believe it? Yeah? Yeah, it's

1625
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:12,160
Speaker 1: called Thinking Sideways Podcast dot com. We gotta dot com

1626
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:15,599
Speaker 1: not to dot net. Uh huh yeah, we're we're big time.

1627
01:27:17,280 --> 01:27:19,880
Speaker 1: We We also could be found on iTunes. Uh and

1628
01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:23,200
Speaker 1: so if you find the seen iTunes, of course, subscribe, comment,

1629
01:27:23,320 --> 01:27:25,960
Speaker 1: leave us a rating. We like that, especially a good rating.

1630
01:27:26,320 --> 01:27:28,599
Speaker 1: You can stream us from anywhere, and there's also Google

1631
01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:33,080
Speaker 1: Play of course. Uh and again with those subscribe, rate us,

1632
01:27:33,160 --> 01:27:36,320
Speaker 1: review us, and obviously the better the review, the better

1633
01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:40,280
Speaker 1: we like you. Yeah, so if you want us to

1634
01:27:40,360 --> 01:27:43,760
Speaker 1: like you, yeah, that's your terrible man, Joe. Otherwise we'll

1635
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:48,120
Speaker 1: accuse you of murder. Yeah. We're also on Facebook. On Facebook,

1636
01:27:48,200 --> 01:27:50,200
Speaker 1: we're Thinking Sideways of course, and we have a group

1637
01:27:50,240 --> 01:27:52,719
Speaker 1: and we also have a page, so join the group.

1638
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:55,759
Speaker 1: Lots and lots of fun out there. We're on Twitter,

1639
01:27:56,040 --> 01:27:58,639
Speaker 1: or I should say that Twitter where we are Thinking

1640
01:27:58,920 --> 01:28:02,400
Speaker 1: Sideways without the g We have a subreddit also go

1641
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:05,640
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways, believe it or not. Lots of activity going

1642
01:28:05,680 --> 01:28:07,280
Speaker 1: out out there, at least I think. I don't know,

1643
01:28:07,680 --> 01:28:11,519
Speaker 1: maybe I haven't checked it a long time. What's going on? Stuff?

1644
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:14,840
Speaker 1: Stuff and thing? Okay, I'll get out there and check it.

1645
01:28:15,120 --> 01:28:18,120
Speaker 1: Of course I say that every week, don't I yea,

1646
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:21,640
Speaker 1: I will do that, yeah, someday. Uh. And we have

1647
01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:23,559
Speaker 1: an email, believe it or not. There's this fancy new

1648
01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:26,120
Speaker 1: thing called email, so to reach us by this fancy

1649
01:28:26,160 --> 01:28:30,760
Speaker 1: new thing is Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com.

1650
01:28:31,920 --> 01:28:34,560
Speaker 1: And then last of all, of course, there is Patreon,

1651
01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:37,439
Speaker 1: whereas if you want to support the show, you can

1652
01:28:37,479 --> 01:28:39,800
Speaker 1: go out and go to patreon dot com, slash Thinking

1653
01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:43,439
Speaker 1: Sideways and you can pledge a certain amount fifty cents

1654
01:28:43,560 --> 01:28:47,240
Speaker 1: an episode of Bucket episode. Please be aware that it's

1655
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:50,760
Speaker 1: the contribution is every time an episode runs, except for

1656
01:28:50,800 --> 01:28:53,479
Speaker 1: special shorts and things like that, we don't charge thankfully,

1657
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:55,640
Speaker 1: you know. Of course, you can set a limit for

1658
01:28:55,760 --> 01:28:57,800
Speaker 1: how much you want to spend a month. There's also

1659
01:28:57,880 --> 01:29:00,840
Speaker 1: the PayPal, and we have a PayPal, and of course

1660
01:29:01,320 --> 01:29:03,599
Speaker 1: when we're on our website, we have merch out there.

1661
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:05,439
Speaker 1: If you want to support this by buy merch and

1662
01:29:05,479 --> 01:29:07,760
Speaker 1: you could have a really cool thinking Sideways mug or

1663
01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:10,080
Speaker 1: a T shirt something like that. Other than that, that's

1664
01:29:10,120 --> 01:29:12,240
Speaker 1: about it. Do you guys have any last thoughts on

1665
01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:16,400
Speaker 1: this week's murder mystery? No, I don't mean either. I

1666
01:29:16,439 --> 01:29:20,240
Speaker 1: think it's pretty open shuts. So that's about it. So yeah,

1667
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:23,160
Speaker 1: we'll see you all out there on the internet. Bye bye, everybody,

1668
01:29:23,280 --> 01:29:23,840
Speaker 1: bie guys,