WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Jennifer Judd 0:00:46.480 --> 0:00:51.921 School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:55.361 case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 0:00:55.401 --> 0:00:58.761 witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:02.961 be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 0:01:03.001 --> 0:01:06.160 from family and community members, their statements should not be 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.961 considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 0:01:10.041 --> 0:01:14.000 inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:17.160 presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 0:01:17.961 --> 0:01:20.840 Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 0:01:21.041 --> 0:01:23.601 that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 0:01:24.121 --> 0:01:27.121 is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.281 May eleventh, nineteen ninety two start out as an ordinary 0:01:33.321 --> 0:01:36.681 day for twenty year old newlyweds Justin and Jennifer Judd. 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.000 Justin and Jennifer were high school sweethearts. They had met 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:44.081 through friends when Jennifer was fifteen years old and Justin 0:01:44.121 --> 0:01:47.561 was sixteen, and they had only been married for nine days. 0:01:48.081 --> 0:01:50.760 In fact, they had just gotten back from their honeymoon 0:01:50.841 --> 0:01:54.721 in Branson, Missouri. These were busy times for a young couple. 0:01:55.441 --> 0:01:58.121 Justin and Jennifer had relocated from Pitcher, where they were 0:01:58.161 --> 0:02:02.441 both originally from to Baxter Springs, Kansas. They moved into 0:02:02.481 --> 0:02:06.361 their duplex at two nineteen North Park Avenue. Though they 0:02:06.361 --> 0:02:09.000 had been dating for years, this was the first time 0:02:09.041 --> 0:02:12.401 they had ever lived together. Justin left for work that morning. 0:02:12.441 --> 0:02:16.081 As usual. He worked as a guard at a nearby 0:02:16.161 --> 0:02:19.601 chemical plant, and his shift started at six thirty am. 0:02:20.161 --> 0:02:22.801 At the time, Jennifer also had a job at a 0:02:22.841 --> 0:02:26.481 convenience store, but she wasn't working that day. That morning 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.561 she left the house. According to media reports, she ran 0:02:29.601 --> 0:02:33.161 some marins. Apparently Jennifer had an appointment at the tanning 0:02:33.161 --> 0:02:37.001 bed that day, among other things. Justin had called her 0:02:37.041 --> 0:02:39.641 in the morning, asking Jennifer to pack a lunch and 0:02:39.721 --> 0:02:42.680 drop it off for him at work, but Jennifer never 0:02:42.721 --> 0:02:46.201 showed up. When Justin came home from work at around 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:50.161 two thirty pm, he walked into their apartment and found 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.161 Jennifer on the kitchen floor, lying in a pool of blood. 0:02:54.001 --> 0:02:57.761 This had been a frenzied attack. Jennifer had been stabbed 0:02:57.841 --> 0:03:01.681 multiple times, and both of the weapons the two knives 0:03:01.721 --> 0:03:04.521 she had been stabbed with had come from her own kitchen, 0:03:05.081 --> 0:03:07.960 including the eight inch knife that was still sticking in 0:03:08.041 --> 0:03:12.281 Jennifer's back. The killer or killers had attacked Jennifer with 0:03:12.321 --> 0:03:16.281 so much force that one of the knives her wedding gift, 0:03:16.761 --> 0:03:21.161 broke off inside her body. Jennifer's friend's family, and the 0:03:21.201 --> 0:03:24.961 whole community, because this was a small town, were stunned 0:03:25.001 --> 0:03:28.641 at the violence of this crime. Everyone was scared, but 0:03:28.761 --> 0:03:31.601 all of them hoped that Jennifer's murder would be solved 0:03:31.841 --> 0:03:36.441 very soon. But it wasn't, and thirty four years later, 0:03:37.041 --> 0:03:42.521 Jennifer's killer is still out there. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over 0:03:42.561 --> 0:03:45.161 the past eight years of making my true crime podcast, 0:03:45.201 --> 0:03:48.321 Helen Gone, I've learned that there's no such thing as 0:03:48.361 --> 0:03:52.401 a small town where murder never happens. I've received hundreds 0:03:52.441 --> 0:03:55.801 of messages from people all around the country asking for 0:03:55.841 --> 0:03:59.161 help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, 0:03:59.441 --> 0:04:02.561 and their communities. If you have a case you'd like 0:04:02.601 --> 0:04:04.881 me and my team to look into, you can reach 0:04:04.881 --> 0:04:07.401 out to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line at 0:04:07.441 --> 0:04:10.881 six seven eight seven four four six one four five. 0:04:11.361 --> 0:04:14.801 That's six seven eight seven four four six one four five, 0:04:15.721 --> 0:04:18.561 or you can send us a message on Instagram at 0:04:18.801 --> 0:04:55.840 Helen Gonepod. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. From the beginning. 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:59.041 Once police arrived at the crime scene, they did not 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:02.321 think that Jennifer's killing was just a random robbery gone wrong. 0:05:03.121 --> 0:05:06.601 First of all, no money had been stolen. Jennifer's purse 0:05:06.681 --> 0:05:08.881 was still at the house and she had money inside it. 0:05:09.281 --> 0:05:12.241 She was still wearing her wedding rings, and nothing appeared 0:05:12.241 --> 0:05:15.841 to be missing from inside the home. Also, the knives 0:05:15.841 --> 0:05:18.921 that were used to kill Jennifer came from inside her house. 0:05:19.481 --> 0:05:22.401 We had a chance to speak with Justin for this podcast. 0:05:23.001 --> 0:05:25.681 He talked to us about the horror he experienced that 0:05:25.801 --> 0:05:28.761 day and the shock of losing the woman he had 0:05:28.801 --> 0:05:32.121 married nine days earlier, someone who he had loved since 0:05:32.121 --> 0:05:36.001 he was sixteen years old. Justin, who is now in 0:05:36.041 --> 0:05:39.281 his fifties, told us about how he met Jennifer, in 0:05:39.321 --> 0:05:43.041 their relationship, and the timeline of exactly what happened on 0:05:43.081 --> 0:05:46.241 the day she was killed. Justin and Jennifer met at 0:05:46.241 --> 0:05:49.441 a high school party when Justin was sixteen. Jennifer was 0:05:49.481 --> 0:05:52.521 petene with brown hair and brown eyes. She was pretty 0:05:52.561 --> 0:05:56.801 and popular in high school. Jennifer was homecoming queen. The 0:05:56.841 --> 0:06:00.601 way that Justin described meeting Jennifer, it sounded like from 0:06:00.641 --> 0:06:03.081 his end it was pretty much love at first sight. 0:06:04.201 --> 0:06:06.961 I was at a party at a friend of mine 0:06:08.041 --> 0:06:10.400 just It was like two weeks after I turned sixteen. 0:06:10.441 --> 0:06:13.481 You know, I'd got my driver's lessons and my buddy 0:06:13.521 --> 0:06:15.561 had a bunch of friends over his house. His parents 0:06:15.641 --> 0:06:20.201 was gone, and he said, hey, goes, my girlfriend's got 0:06:20.241 --> 0:06:23.601 a friend that wants to meet you. And like, okay, 0:06:23.881 --> 0:06:26.481 you know, so we load up and truck and we 0:06:26.601 --> 0:06:28.921 go over to Picture and you know, it's selling four 0:06:28.961 --> 0:06:31.921 cell phones and everything. You know, I met her and 0:06:32.001 --> 0:06:34.561 we pretty much so dated until we got married. 0:06:35.361 --> 0:06:38.200 Justin and Jennifer dated for four years. They married in 0:06:38.241 --> 0:06:41.001 nineteen ninety two. Both of them were twenty years old. 0:06:41.841 --> 0:06:44.841 Justin mits that he and Jennifer had their share of arguments. 0:06:45.281 --> 0:06:49.481 He has called her a spitfire. Jennifer's sister, Amanda Davis, 0:06:49.761 --> 0:06:52.840 has stated in interviews with journalists that at one point, 0:06:52.921 --> 0:06:57.481 Jennifer considered calling the wedding to Justin off Justin admitted 0:06:57.521 --> 0:07:01.200 they both considered canceling the wedding during arguments, but he 0:07:01.281 --> 0:07:03.881 said neither of them were serious. He said leading up 0:07:03.921 --> 0:07:07.200 to the wedding, the conflicts they were having, in his opinion, 0:07:07.241 --> 0:07:10.681 could mostly be chalked up to immaturity. Justin did admit 0:07:10.801 --> 0:07:14.201 their relationship had its ups and downs, like any young 0:07:14.241 --> 0:07:16.841 couple about to take a big step, but he said 0:07:16.841 --> 0:07:20.161 they were very happy together. He described Jennifer as not 0:07:20.201 --> 0:07:22.521 only his wife, but his best friend. 0:07:23.161 --> 0:07:26.041 We both went through a little period where we thought, 0:07:26.081 --> 0:07:28.641 you know, maybe we shouldn't do this. You know, we're 0:07:28.681 --> 0:07:32.081 young and all that, and and you know, we both decided, 0:07:32.081 --> 0:07:34.401 you know that it is going to happen eventually, so 0:07:34.441 --> 0:07:35.841 we might as well just go ahead get married. So 0:07:35.961 --> 0:07:38.241 we did. If you can recall back when you were 0:07:38.281 --> 0:07:39.881 sixteen and stuff, you know, you got a lot of 0:07:40.041 --> 0:07:42.361 girl and pains, and we just, you know, we went 0:07:42.401 --> 0:07:44.881 through them together. We you know, justically grew in our 0:07:44.961 --> 0:07:48.081 teens together. And she wasn't, you know, just my girlfriend. 0:07:48.081 --> 0:07:50.561 She was pretty much so like my best friend. You know, 0:07:50.601 --> 0:07:55.041 you go through them stages where you know, jealousy stages, 0:07:55.081 --> 0:07:57.921 and you know, we went through all that. You know, 0:07:58.041 --> 0:07:59.801 we made we made it through all that stuff. So 0:07:59.841 --> 0:08:01.841 we figured, you might as well just get married now, 0:08:01.881 --> 0:08:03.721 so we did. 0:08:03.801 --> 0:08:07.321 Justin said that on the day Jennifer was murdered, looking back, 0:08:07.721 --> 0:08:10.721 there were some things that were unusual that day For 0:08:10.841 --> 0:08:14.041 one thing, Justin said, he ate breakfast that morning, then 0:08:14.241 --> 0:08:18.081 he fell back asleep and actually overslept, so he ended 0:08:18.161 --> 0:08:21.041 up waking up and leaving for work quickly, and in 0:08:21.081 --> 0:08:24.361 his haste he forgot to bring in his packed lunch. 0:08:24.881 --> 0:08:27.601 That morning for some reason. And that's something I never do. 0:08:28.001 --> 0:08:31.961 I got up and I ate breakfast, and I went 0:08:32.001 --> 0:08:33.841 and laid back down to bed, and I fell back 0:08:33.841 --> 0:08:36.721 to sleep, and they were called and said, hey, are 0:08:36.721 --> 0:08:39.561 you coming in? I was like, yeah, okay, so, and 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.161 I didn't live very far from work, so I went 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.280 and jumping the truck and left. 0:08:44.560 --> 0:08:49.121 So sometime between approximately nine and nine thirty am, Justin 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:51.801 called Jennifer from work. He asked if she would bring 0:08:51.841 --> 0:08:55.561 his lunch in, which she agreed to do. But Jennifer 0:08:55.641 --> 0:08:58.641 never showed up that day, so Justin started calling the 0:08:58.680 --> 0:09:02.961 house and getting no answer. Justin was getting concerned. And 0:09:03.001 --> 0:09:06.440 then a few minutes before noon, something else out of 0:09:06.481 --> 0:09:11.040 the ordinary happened. A friend of Justin's, Charles Chuck Chance, 0:09:11.201 --> 0:09:13.881 who had actually been a guest at their wedding, stopped 0:09:13.881 --> 0:09:17.121 by Justin's work that day. This was something Justin said 0:09:17.161 --> 0:09:19.681 he thought was odd because Chuck had never come to 0:09:19.721 --> 0:09:23.641 his work before Chuck told Justin he had gone to 0:09:23.801 --> 0:09:26.521 Justin and Jennifer's house. He said he knocked on the 0:09:26.521 --> 0:09:30.481 front door, but that Jennifer didn't answer. Chuck was unemployed 0:09:30.521 --> 0:09:33.281 at the time and later told police he had spent 0:09:33.321 --> 0:09:37.281 the morning driving around going to job interviews. Chuck told 0:09:37.401 --> 0:09:39.361 Justin when he got to the chemical plant that he 0:09:39.441 --> 0:09:43.601 was concerned about Jennifer. To this day, this statement by 0:09:43.841 --> 0:09:47.680 There's Justin. After his shift finished at two thirty pm, 0:09:48.361 --> 0:09:52.001 Justin and Chuck rode separately back to Jennifer and Justin's home. 0:09:52.721 --> 0:09:55.921 When they got to the apartment, Justin said Jennifer's car 0:09:55.961 --> 0:09:58.721 was in the driveway. He looked inside it and saw 0:09:58.801 --> 0:10:03.481 his packed lunch. Later, when police searched Jennifer's nineteen eighty 0:10:03.481 --> 0:10:07.281 four black Mercury Cougar, they would bag up the sandwich 0:10:07.321 --> 0:10:10.401 and banana that was presumably meant to be Justin's lunch 0:10:10.801 --> 0:10:14.641 and label it as evidence. When Justin and Chuck got 0:10:14.681 --> 0:10:17.641 to the front door, Justin noticed the door was unlocked, 0:10:17.961 --> 0:10:20.481 which he says was very unusual. 0:10:21.241 --> 0:10:25.321 Got to work, and around ten o'clock or eleven o'clock, 0:10:25.921 --> 0:10:28.001 Chuck showed up at my work and he stayed there 0:10:28.121 --> 0:10:31.401 till I got off at three and he went home 0:10:31.441 --> 0:10:33.881 with me, and her car was there. I remember reaching 0:10:33.921 --> 0:10:36.441 down and grabbing the door and opening the door, and 0:10:36.481 --> 0:10:39.280 it wasn't locked, and I and you know, it's always 0:10:39.321 --> 0:10:41.001 a big thing of mine, you know, with hers, you know, 0:10:41.241 --> 0:10:44.721 I always locked the door, you know. I walked and 0:10:44.801 --> 0:10:48.921 it was dark, and I believe I seen her keys 0:10:48.961 --> 0:10:51.881 in the floor, and for some reason, I turned and 0:10:52.161 --> 0:10:53.921 went to the bedroom. I guess I just you know, 0:10:53.921 --> 0:10:55.361 since all the lights off, I assumed that she was 0:10:55.441 --> 0:10:57.521 laying down. So I go in the bedroom and I 0:10:57.561 --> 0:11:00.160 noticed that it looked like the bed was made, but 0:11:00.201 --> 0:11:03.401 it looked like somebody had laid down on the side 0:11:03.401 --> 0:11:05.161 of the bed, you know, just laid back down on it, 0:11:05.161 --> 0:11:08.481 because it was kind of ruffled. And I turned around 0:11:08.481 --> 0:11:10.161 and walked over walked into the kitchen. And I walked 0:11:10.201 --> 0:11:11.961 into the kitchen. I've seen her laying on the floor, 0:11:12.481 --> 0:11:15.161 and my first thought was was she was which you know, 0:11:15.201 --> 0:11:17.841 I didn't know a whole lot about medicine and stuff 0:11:17.841 --> 0:11:19.561 back then, but I knew she was a knemi shed 0:11:19.761 --> 0:11:23.161 uh kind of a blood disorder, and I thought, well, 0:11:23.361 --> 0:11:26.081 she passed out, you know, and I reached over, I 0:11:26.121 --> 0:11:28.881 put the light on and and I seen that, you know, 0:11:29.601 --> 0:11:31.801 her eyes were outed and she was passed. I reached 0:11:31.841 --> 0:11:34.321 down and felt her neck and it was cold and hard. 0:11:35.241 --> 0:11:39.201 But the weird thing is is I I never seen 0:11:39.241 --> 0:11:42.561 any blood. And according to the KBI, there was a 0:11:42.561 --> 0:11:45.601 lot of blood everywhere and said that people will will 0:11:45.641 --> 0:11:51.241 block that out as a defense mechanism. Yeah, I didn't 0:11:51.241 --> 0:11:51.841 see any blood. 0:11:53.321 --> 0:11:57.241 What Justin witnessed was horrible. Chuck had walked into the 0:11:57.241 --> 0:12:01.441 apartment with him, and to this day, Justin said that 0:12:01.561 --> 0:12:05.041 what he described as Chuck's out of character behavior bothered 0:12:05.121 --> 0:12:10.961 him both before they discovered Jennifer's body and after when. 0:12:10.801 --> 0:12:13.721 We was walking into the house. He made a call 0:12:13.801 --> 0:12:15.281 and he said, I can here's the bitch. And now 0:12:15.961 --> 0:12:18.161 I'm thinking, and you know, that's kind of it's one 0:12:18.161 --> 0:12:20.201 of one of the things that just was just really odd. 0:12:21.601 --> 0:12:24.721 And then we go in and you know, we find 0:12:24.721 --> 0:12:29.081 her and stuff, and he just starts, I'm scared. I'm 0:12:29.081 --> 0:12:33.081 scared and shaking and stuff. And I wasn't, you know, 0:12:33.121 --> 0:12:35.441 I was just you knowing shock. And I said call 0:12:35.561 --> 0:12:37.481 nine one one, and he grabbed the phone and he 0:12:37.481 --> 0:12:40.440 couldn't call, so I get the phone and I call 0:12:40.521 --> 0:12:43.560 and I called nine one one, and don't I don't 0:12:43.601 --> 0:12:50.801 know what it was that I felt. I felt like 0:12:50.841 --> 0:12:52.761 when the paramedics got there, I felt like everything's gonna 0:12:52.761 --> 0:12:54.761 be okay. When they walked through, I felt like everything 0:12:54.801 --> 0:12:58.041 was gonna be okay, you know, And it wasn't. But 0:12:59.761 --> 0:13:01.521 the paramedics got there, and you know, we went outside 0:13:01.561 --> 0:13:02.321 and I never went back in. 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:35.321 Once police arrived at the scene, they immediately figured out 0:13:35.401 --> 0:13:38.081 this had been a knife attack. Part of an eight 0:13:38.121 --> 0:13:41.441 inch kitchen knife was sticking out of Jennifer's back, but 0:13:41.721 --> 0:13:44.361 that knife and the other knife invested the Gators believe 0:13:44.481 --> 0:13:48.561 was used during the killing were never recovered, so police 0:13:48.681 --> 0:13:52.040 had no murder weapon, and they struggled to figure out 0:13:52.041 --> 0:13:56.121 a motive. Police interviewed a lot of people, but seemed 0:13:56.161 --> 0:13:59.001 to hit a dead end early on. One problem could 0:13:59.001 --> 0:14:01.721 have been the lack of physical evidence and the fact 0:14:01.721 --> 0:14:04.920 that DNA testing back in nineteen ninety two was not 0:14:05.041 --> 0:14:08.601 what it is today, so is there evidence that could 0:14:08.601 --> 0:14:12.001 be retested. They did find hairs at the crime scene 0:14:12.041 --> 0:14:15.161 on Jennifer's bed, and it has been reported that the 0:14:15.201 --> 0:14:17.561 hairs did not belong to anyone in the Judd family, 0:14:18.401 --> 0:14:21.761 but there hasn't been any information released about what happened 0:14:21.761 --> 0:14:25.321 to those hairs, whether they were tested against other suspects, 0:14:25.361 --> 0:14:28.961 and what the status of that evidence is today. There 0:14:29.001 --> 0:14:33.561 may have been other complications as well. Justin has stated 0:14:33.601 --> 0:14:36.201 in the past he believed that crime scene was not 0:14:36.241 --> 0:14:40.201 secured properly. He said that there were multiple people allowed 0:14:40.241 --> 0:14:44.361 inside his and Jennifer's home that Day's said he knows 0:14:44.361 --> 0:14:48.241 that because he saw what went down. Still in the beginning, 0:14:48.561 --> 0:14:51.441 Jennifer's family and friends were hopeful that her killer would 0:14:51.481 --> 0:14:55.041 be caught quickly. Jennifer was very well known in town. 0:14:55.401 --> 0:14:58.441 She was heavily involved in her community and dedicated to 0:14:58.441 --> 0:15:02.241 her Christian faith. She played softball and basketball, and she 0:15:02.361 --> 0:15:05.121 was an active member of her church, the First Baptist Church. 0:15:05.961 --> 0:15:10.001 According to newspaper reports, more than seven hundred and fifty 0:15:10.001 --> 0:15:12.961 people showed up for Jennifer's funeral at the First Baptist Church. 0:15:13.721 --> 0:15:16.681 So many people came to her funeral it was standing 0:15:16.761 --> 0:15:20.481 room only. People were actually spilling out onto the church lawn. 0:15:21.281 --> 0:15:25.521 Jennifer's autopsy has not been made public, but details and 0:15:25.561 --> 0:15:28.721 pages from it have been posted to several online sources. 0:15:32.001 --> 0:15:35.761 Jennifer was stabbed nine times. She was stabbed six times 0:15:35.801 --> 0:15:37.921 on the left side of her chest. One of those 0:15:37.961 --> 0:15:41.601 stab wounds went through her heart. Three more stab wounds 0:15:41.641 --> 0:15:45.921 were found on Jennifer's back on the left sid The 0:15:45.961 --> 0:15:50.561 actual cause of death was exanguination, meaning Jennifer blood to death, 0:15:51.121 --> 0:15:54.161 and the autopsy report estimated the time of death at 0:15:54.161 --> 0:15:59.361 approximately ten thirty am. A private investigator named Stephen M. 0:15:59.401 --> 0:16:02.081 Garrett worked on the case for a long time. He 0:16:02.161 --> 0:16:06.121 prepared an investigative report that included a lot of original documents. 0:16:06.641 --> 0:16:09.481 A lot of pieces of this report have been posted 0:16:09.681 --> 0:16:14.481 and quoted online. At some point, this report stated that 0:16:14.521 --> 0:16:17.521 Stephen had reached out to the medical examiner, who told 0:16:17.561 --> 0:16:21.201 him that, in their opinion, that Jennifer's killer hated her, 0:16:21.961 --> 0:16:26.161 calling the murder overkill. The stab wounds buried in depth. 0:16:27.001 --> 0:16:29.641 Two of the stab wounds to Jennifer's chest were one 0:16:29.681 --> 0:16:32.841 and three quarter inches deep, Another was one in a 0:16:32.921 --> 0:16:36.801 quarter inch steep. Other stab wounds were between one and 0:16:36.881 --> 0:16:39.561 one and a half inches deep. Some were even shallower, 0:16:39.841 --> 0:16:42.321 between five eighths of an inch to one inch deep. 0:16:43.201 --> 0:16:46.961 According to the autopsy report, Jennifer had other cuts on 0:16:47.041 --> 0:16:50.321 her left hand her left eye and her scalp. All 0:16:50.361 --> 0:16:53.881 of the abrasions, including the five inch abrasion on her scalp, 0:16:54.001 --> 0:16:57.641 were caused by quote blunt trauma by a heavy instrument, 0:16:57.921 --> 0:17:01.001 fist or foot end quote, So it appears as though 0:17:01.081 --> 0:17:04.721 Jennifer's killer hit her and then, judging by the abrasion, 0:17:04.801 --> 0:17:07.921 which is usually caused by some kind of friction, Jennifer 0:17:08.001 --> 0:17:11.361 probably hit her head on something, or the abrasion could 0:17:11.360 --> 0:17:14.721 have happened when Jennifer's head was against the floor. There 0:17:14.761 --> 0:17:17.680 was a struggle. The killer grabbed a knife. Once the 0:17:17.721 --> 0:17:20.360 struggle started, it was a fight to the death, judging 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.321 by the stab wounds on Jennifer's front and back. The 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.160 wounds on her back, by the way, were also all 0:17:26.321 --> 0:17:29.840 entry wounds. Whatever happened was an instant. It took time 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:33.121 to kill Jennifer, and her killer had many moments when 0:17:33.161 --> 0:17:36.761 they could have paused or stopped, but they didn't. But 0:17:37.041 --> 0:17:40.840 why would someone kill Jennifer? Sexual assault did not appear 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.001 to be the motive, at least not on the surface. 0:17:43.521 --> 0:17:46.360 The autopsy did not find any evidence that Jennifer had 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:50.801 been raped or sexually assaulted in any way, and though 0:17:50.921 --> 0:17:55.321 Jennifer could be as her friend's family and husband described her, feisty, 0:17:55.801 --> 0:17:59.041 She was also very well loved. No one could think 0:17:59.041 --> 0:18:02.160 of anyone who would want to hurt her. It is 0:18:02.321 --> 0:18:05.721 possible that what some people believes the overkill aspect of 0:18:05.721 --> 0:18:09.001 the crime, the multiple stabbings, may not have been someone 0:18:09.001 --> 0:18:12.161 who had a hatred for Jennifer personally. It could also 0:18:12.201 --> 0:18:14.881 be someone who didn't know her at all. It could 0:18:14.881 --> 0:18:20.241 indicate a killer who was inexperienced and panicked. In nineteen 0:18:20.321 --> 0:18:23.161 ninety eight, the Kansas Bureau of Investigations got a cold 0:18:23.201 --> 0:18:27.161 case squad. They started looking into Jennifer's case. In two 0:18:27.241 --> 0:18:31.161 thousand and one, a local newspaper reported that Ray London, 0:18:31.401 --> 0:18:35.041 a KBI senior special agent and coordinator of the squad, 0:18:35.041 --> 0:18:37.441 told them the squad had been working on the case 0:18:37.521 --> 0:18:40.361 for two years straight at that point, and that quote, 0:18:40.521 --> 0:18:45.121 an arrest might come soon end quote then nothing happened. 0:18:45.801 --> 0:18:49.201 The KBI did more public outreach on the fifteenth anniversary 0:18:49.201 --> 0:18:53.121 of Jennifer's murder in two thousand and seven. Over the years, 0:18:53.281 --> 0:18:57.001 there have been several people named as possible suspects. One 0:18:57.001 --> 0:19:00.721 of the biggest questions in the investigation was was Jennifer's 0:19:00.801 --> 0:19:05.201 killer someone she knew and possibly invited inside. Remember the 0:19:05.241 --> 0:19:10.041 door was unlocked, but also Jennifer's keys were on the floor. 0:19:10.121 --> 0:19:12.641 Could someone have surprised her at the door and pushed 0:19:12.681 --> 0:19:29.081 her inside? Could someone have been stalking Jennifer. Jennifer's father, 0:19:29.201 --> 0:19:33.201 Dale Bryan, told the Joplin Globe he believed Jennifer might 0:19:33.201 --> 0:19:36.721 have had a stalker. He said, five days before her 0:19:36.721 --> 0:19:40.120 brutal murder, she told a friend someone was pounding on 0:19:40.201 --> 0:19:43.561 her door hard. She was so freaked out by that. 0:19:43.801 --> 0:19:47.921 Apparently she hid from this person. Jennifer's father also told 0:19:47.961 --> 0:19:50.081 the paper he had followed her home because she thought 0:19:50.121 --> 0:19:53.441 that someone was following her, though this happened several months 0:19:53.481 --> 0:19:57.481 before the murder. We asked Justin if Jennifer ever mentioned 0:19:57.521 --> 0:20:01.441 anything about anyone following her. Justin said that, from what 0:20:01.561 --> 0:20:04.880 he could remember, she had not. He also does not 0:20:04.961 --> 0:20:08.080 remember her ever saying anything about someone pounding on the door. 0:20:09.121 --> 0:20:12.360 Justin said, based on what the Kansas Bureau of Investigations 0:20:12.361 --> 0:20:15.600 said to him, he believed they were completely focused on 0:20:15.681 --> 0:20:19.680 his friend, Chuck Chance as the main suspect. Over the years, 0:20:20.121 --> 0:20:23.441 Chuck has been arrested multiple times and spent time in jail. 0:20:23.881 --> 0:20:28.641 For things like public intoxication, grand larceny, obstructing a police officer, 0:20:29.401 --> 0:20:32.761 escaped from jail, possession of a stolen vehicle, etc. There 0:20:32.761 --> 0:20:35.880 are court documents pertaining to fights he had with family members, 0:20:36.441 --> 0:20:40.041 but the court record as of now shows no arrests 0:20:40.121 --> 0:20:43.641 for other violent crimes. Pllice did talk to Chuck about 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:46.081 what he was doing before he went to Justin's work 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:48.640 that day. At the time, Chuck was married and had 0:20:48.641 --> 0:20:51.201 a one year old daughter. He lived about a ten 0:20:51.241 --> 0:20:53.961 to fifteen minute drive from where Jennifer and Justin lived. 0:20:54.641 --> 0:20:57.921 In twenty twenty four, there was a podcast called Who 0:20:58.001 --> 0:21:01.561 Killed Jennifer Judd, and the host was deputized as part 0:21:01.601 --> 0:21:04.080 of her research into the case, so she got access 0:21:04.121 --> 0:21:07.521 to the case files. On the podcast, she read from 0:21:07.641 --> 0:21:11.120 Chuck Chance's statements. According to what is said on the podcast, 0:21:11.441 --> 0:21:13.721 Chuck said that he left home that morning at around 0:21:13.801 --> 0:21:16.801 seven am and went to a fitness center. Once he 0:21:16.881 --> 0:21:19.321 was there, he spent about half an hour in a whirlpool, 0:21:19.441 --> 0:21:22.321 then took a shower and left. Then, he said he 0:21:22.361 --> 0:21:25.361 went to Jennifer and Justin's house. That's when Chuck told 0:21:25.441 --> 0:21:29.281 police Jennifer didn't answer the door. Chuck said something else. 0:21:29.281 --> 0:21:31.840 According to the podcast, he said that he saw a 0:21:31.921 --> 0:21:34.681 quote a woman who he assumed might be a saleswoman 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:37.521 end quote. Chuck went on to say this woman actually 0:21:37.521 --> 0:21:40.281 came up to his vehicle and asked about Justin and Jennifer. 0:21:41.041 --> 0:21:44.241 Chuck claimed he told this person that Justin and Jennifer 0:21:44.241 --> 0:21:47.401 were his friends and they lived in the apartment complex. Now. 0:21:47.641 --> 0:21:50.400 Chuck claims that this woman was walking up to Jennifer 0:21:50.401 --> 0:21:53.120 and Justin's apartment and knocking on their door as he 0:21:53.241 --> 0:21:57.241 drove off. After that, Chuck said he went to Pittsburgh, Kansas. 0:21:57.721 --> 0:22:00.561 He claimed he stopped at a convenience store at nine am, 0:22:00.961 --> 0:22:02.880 and then he named a couple of businesses where he 0:22:02.881 --> 0:22:06.161 said he stopped in. His last stop was the Hicks Corporation. 0:22:06.681 --> 0:22:10.121 After filling out an application there, he said he left 0:22:10.121 --> 0:22:14.321 for Justin's work at around nine forty two am. He 0:22:14.521 --> 0:22:17.201 said he and Justin hung out there until Justin got 0:22:17.201 --> 0:22:19.921 off work at two thirty PM, and then they drove 0:22:19.961 --> 0:22:23.561 to Justin and Jennifer's home. According to the podcast, on 0:22:23.681 --> 0:22:27.321 the next day, May twelfth, Chuck called police and changed 0:22:27.321 --> 0:22:31.441 his story slightly. He told the authorities he'd actually left 0:22:31.441 --> 0:22:35.681 Pittsburgh between ten and ten fifteen am, not nine forty two, 0:22:36.201 --> 0:22:38.600 and he remembered he'd made a couple of stops on 0:22:38.641 --> 0:22:41.561 his roof, one in Commerce, where he said he stopped 0:22:41.601 --> 0:22:44.561 at the bank. He claimed he was at the bank 0:22:44.601 --> 0:22:47.080 in Commerce at exactly eleven thirty, And he claimed he 0:22:47.121 --> 0:22:50.201 remember that because at that time he was planning on 0:22:50.281 --> 0:22:52.801 depositing a check, but the teller was going on their 0:22:52.881 --> 0:22:56.201 lunch break, so he wasn't able to do it. Instead, 0:22:56.361 --> 0:22:58.601 he drove on to the chemical plant and got there 0:22:58.681 --> 0:23:01.921 at eleven forty five. The rest of the story about 0:23:01.921 --> 0:23:04.801 his getting to Justin's work right before lunchtime at around 0:23:04.801 --> 0:23:07.841 eleven forty five, was the same. He said he showed up, 0:23:07.881 --> 0:23:09.961 stayed until two thirty, and then they went back to 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:14.161 Justin's place and found the body. According to a search 0:23:14.241 --> 0:23:18.761 warrant affidavit which we've seen, police interviewed Chuck. He quote 0:23:19.161 --> 0:23:22.080 admitted to the touching of certain knives located upon the 0:23:22.121 --> 0:23:24.600 counter in the kitchen and to being present in the 0:23:24.641 --> 0:23:29.401 bedroom where certain foreign hairs were discovered end quote. Police 0:23:29.481 --> 0:23:33.481 were clearly suspicious of Chuck, but that interview, in my opinion, 0:23:33.601 --> 0:23:36.161 is not a smoking gun. Chuck could have touched the 0:23:36.201 --> 0:23:38.360 knives and been in the bedroom. He was friends with 0:23:38.441 --> 0:23:41.321 Jennifer and Justin. That would not have been super out 0:23:41.361 --> 0:23:45.481 of the ordinary. In fact, told us Chuck had spent 0:23:45.521 --> 0:23:47.881 a lot of time in that apartment. He said Chuck 0:23:48.001 --> 0:23:51.921 actually helped him and Jennifer move into that place. In 0:23:51.921 --> 0:23:55.521 twenty twenty four, it was reported police had tested DNA 0:23:55.961 --> 0:23:59.600 hair and fingerprints from the crime scene, and based on 0:23:59.681 --> 0:24:04.081 this DNA evidence, police ruled Chuck out because his hair 0:24:04.121 --> 0:24:07.160 and prints were not a match to anything from the 0:24:07.161 --> 0:24:08.840 crime scene. 0:24:09.241 --> 0:24:12.721 The KBI Hanson Bureau investigations, they had me pretty well 0:24:12.801 --> 0:24:20.600 convinced of who it was, and since then, I just 0:24:20.641 --> 0:24:24.521 found out within the last year that there's DNA evidence 0:24:24.601 --> 0:24:32.680 that made him not the person. So I'd been thirty 0:24:32.681 --> 0:24:35.841 some years with that in my mind, having you know, 0:24:36.161 --> 0:24:38.120 thinking I had figured out, you know, what all had 0:24:38.121 --> 0:24:40.321 happened and stuff, and then that hit me and that 0:24:40.441 --> 0:24:42.961 was pretty pretty rough. So then it just opened up 0:24:42.961 --> 0:24:45.561 all this speculaums in my mind, you know, and you 0:24:45.601 --> 0:24:49.561