1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to food Stuff. I'm an Erie and 2 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: I'm Lauren bum and today we're talking about fried chicken. 3 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: I learned during our very first episode about champagne that 4 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: Lauren has never had homemade fried chickens. I'm not from 5 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: the South. I'm from Ohio and Florida. But you've been 6 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: in South for like twelve years now. I'm somewhat someone 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: the fault. The fault is on my friends. Friends. If 8 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: any listen to this. Yeah, man, oh that sounds lovely. 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: I've got a bone to pick with your friends. Fried 10 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: chicken puns come in. Oh no, so soon. It also 11 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: comes back full circles of champagne and fried chicken. So yeah. Chicken, 12 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: by the way, fried or not is the most popular 13 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: meat in the world. Yeah, Americans eat more than eighty 14 00:00:55,320 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: pounds a year. Uh and in Business Analysis cited fried 15 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: chicken small chains as the fastest growing and in chicken 16 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: entrees added three and reached five point four billion. And 17 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: in the same report, the in d P, which is 18 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: the market research group, described chicken as quote a faster 19 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: growing segment than burgers and fast food. Yeah, and Eater 20 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: named the Year of the fried Chicken. I also think 21 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: that every year is like probably dear fried chicken. Well, yeah, 22 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: all that, but also probably somebody called the year of 23 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: the Burger, and somebody else called it the year of 24 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: this thing and this thing. I don't know, maybe I'm cynical. Um. 25 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: For the reason that chicken fried chicken was that year 26 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: was because, UM, a lot of companies were trying to 27 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: come up with the fried chicken version of the so 28 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: called fast casual category. Because for a long time there 29 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: was faster chicken or expensive fancy Southern rest shrunk chicken, 30 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: fried chicken, but nothing nothing in between, really, um. And 31 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: one of the reasons for that is it's relatively difficult 32 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: to keep it a consistent product, um, and also relatively 33 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: chicken you to prepare because you can't have pink chicken. 34 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: No no, no, you can't cook your chicken medium. That's 35 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: not a chicken. You can do that with beef, but 36 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: not a chicken, and overcooked chicken is gross. So you've 37 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: got a very tight even know of what makes a 38 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: good fried chicken. But when we say fried chicken, we're 39 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: referring to probably a very specific thing. What what are 40 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: we talking about? Uh? Being from the South, I think 41 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: of American and particularly Southern tike fried chicken, which is 42 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: usually bone in chicken dipped in seasoned flour, are crumb 43 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: breading usually well, I don't know about usually, but it's 44 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: often soaked in buttermilk or the like before and then 45 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: it can either be pan fried, deep fried, pressure fried 46 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: in oil. Oil can vary. Yes, any type of liquid 47 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: fat can be used technically several cultures around the world. 48 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: Do you have a totally different take on fried chicken? Um, 49 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: some fried bone free chicken pieces without flour or breading. 50 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: I think it's pretty popular in Asian countries. Um or 51 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,239 Speaker 1: bone in pieces that are braised after being fried. Um. 52 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: I guess you could say, like buffalo wings are technically 53 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: fried chicken that just has a bunch of sauce. Yeah, 54 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: that's not what I think of when I think of 55 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: our chicken. But I'm sometimes surprised when buffalo wings show 56 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: up and I'm like, oh, this is fried chicken. I 57 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: have to remind myself that I just ordered fried chicken, right, 58 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: I baked my buffalo wings. There's there's also the thing 59 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: of battered fried chicken pieces, like like a like a 60 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: tempora kind of battering or like a tongue. It would 61 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: be tonkatsu with it, because that's pork fried. But like, yeah, similar, yes, yes, 62 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: I'm getting hungry already. I almost written the notes about 63 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: four times, like oh, I'm so hungry now. And there's 64 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: a Hops Chicken right downstairs that has really good fried chickens. 65 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: And then and then of course, yeah, you've got other 66 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: American versions of fried chicken. You've you've got chicken nuggets 67 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: and chicken tenders and chicken fingers. Um. You can fry 68 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: chicken into a cutlet. You can. You've got fried chicken 69 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: sandwiches and chicken biscuits, all those things. Althora of waste 70 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: to eat your fried chicken. Um. But why why would 71 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: you want to fry something anyway? Well, like scientifically other 72 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: than just it's delicious um uh. Frying food has a 73 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: few different benefits. First of all, it's quick, um, so Okay, 74 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: when you bake or boil something, the main thing that 75 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: you's that you're using to transfer heat from your cooking 76 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: object to the food is either water or air, uh, 77 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: because you're boiling it in water and airs is what's 78 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: mostly transferring heat to to food in an oven. Oils 79 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: are better at transferring infrared radiation A K a heat 80 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: than water or air are, so the cooking happens faster. 81 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: It is no coincidence that fast foods fast food foods, 82 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: yes are are largely fried foods. Oh it's pretty quick, okay, 83 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: I mean otherwise, I mean, what what are you doing? 84 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: Like like like, oh, yeah, just hold on, you're braised 85 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: to order. Chicken is going to be ready in minutes. 86 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: I've totally always thought it was just because Americans like 87 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 1: unhealthy food and fried food is difficult to mess up. 88 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: It Also, frying deals with the steam that's coming out 89 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: of cooking food in a really chemically awesome way. So okay, 90 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: you know how when you open your oven or a 91 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: covered pan, you really don't want to put your face 92 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: right there because of all the steam that's going to 93 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: come out, because Steve steam burns suck. Yeah. Uh. That 94 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: that steam is water that's vaporizing out of the food 95 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: that you're cooking, which it does when the water in 96 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: the food that you're cooking reaches two twelve degrees fahrenheit 97 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: a k a hundred degrees celsius. When you fry something, 98 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: that steam that that water vapor is met with a 99 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 1: wall of solid oil. As we all know, oil and 100 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: water don't mix, so the steam that's coming out of 101 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,119 Speaker 1: the food actually holds the oil slightly at bay, which 102 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: which prevents it from penetrating the food surface. This is 103 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: part of why you really want to wait until oil 104 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 1: is appropriately hot before you drop food in. That's going 105 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: to lead to that greasy, soggy kind of kind of fry. 106 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 1: Get sometimes it's the worst. Now, um, by the worst, 107 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:56,679 Speaker 1: I mean kind of delicious anyway. Again, so good fat 108 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: is delicious, okay. Um. Another thing the steam here, Um, 109 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: the steam coming out is only two d and twelve 110 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: degrees um. The oil around it is much hotter, so 111 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: the steam actually cools down the oil in the area 112 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:17,679 Speaker 1: immediately surrounding your food item. Um. This plus that oil 113 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: water thing that I just mentioned prevents the oil from 114 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: burning the surface of the food while the interior is cooking. 115 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: That's pretty amazing actually, right like fry everything for science, 116 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: just to appreciate the amazingness that is chicken tender you're 117 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: stuffing into your face and and speaking of the amazing 118 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: nous that is that chicken tender. Okay, So, so frying 119 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: foods makes them crispy on the outside because once most 120 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: of the water has vaporized out of the kind of 121 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: outer layer of your food, and while simultaneously the interior, 122 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: the interior of your food is just about at the 123 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: correct temperature for you to do the thing where you 124 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: put it in your face. Once most of that water 125 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: is out, the slightly dehydrated surface starts coming into direct 126 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: contact with the oil, with which just crisps it up 127 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: all all beautifully. Thinking of crispy, let's crisp up our history. 128 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: What a great segue. Let's step back a bit, an 129 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: enormous way back bite, not a little bit, no big bit. 130 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: The chicken is thought to have been domesticated in Southeast 131 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 1: Asia sometime between seven thousand, five hundred and five thousand BC. 132 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 1: Because of that whole growing at daybreak thing, chickens were 133 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: sometimes believed to have the ability to see into the future, 134 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: and that's one of the reasons experts think that chickens 135 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: were domesticated, probably because because they were thought to be 136 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: divine and two divine to eat. Okay, yep, But as 137 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: the chickens were traded, some cultures accepted the chickens rep 138 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 1: as a divine creature, and others dismissed it. Using chickens 139 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: and all kinds of things like cock fighting, entertainment, eating them, 140 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: sacrificing them to gods, that kind of stuff, all the 141 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: things that you can do with chicken. Sh I'm sure, um, 142 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: but it wasn't long before cooking and eating chicken became 143 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: the standard, never mind their morning predicting abilities. Uh. First, 144 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: fried chicken was often relegated to royalty in aristocracy and 145 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: just a note they were they were using older hens 146 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: that were um fried and then braced. So not quite 147 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: how most of us in the West again anyway think 148 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: of fried chicken. But over time it made its way 149 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: to a much wider audience, including Africa, Great Britain in 150 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: the US and and the brazen like what I believe 151 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: was often a cream sauce of some kind. Yeah. According 152 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 1: to food timeline dot org um, part of the difficulty 153 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: in tracing the history of fried foods lies partly in 154 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: the word fried, because, as is the case with so 155 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 1: many things Lauren and I talked about, UM, it is 156 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: evolved and it's gone through or gone by many different names. 157 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: And deep fried didn't appear in written form into the 158 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties, but cookbooks were describing deep frying processes before then. Um, like. 159 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: One example that food Timeline dot Org gave was the 160 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: Boston Cooking School Cookbook of four UM. Furthermore, a recipe 161 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: for like non dredged pan or oven fried chicken appears 162 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: in a book that I didn't check the nip pronunciation of. 163 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: I believe it's a pitious. I'll go with that. I'm 164 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna go with it. Yeah. Uh Opicious, which 165 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 1: is a cookbook from Rome thought to have been collected 166 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: around five hundred to six hundred b c um. The 167 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: of the spices that go into it involved dill and coriander, 168 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: which are totally what you fried like spices that I 169 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: would associate with fried chicken these days, which is crazy 170 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: to me. That's interesting. I mean that sounds like a 171 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: like it's halfway to like the Chick fil a fried 172 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: chicken recipe. Yeah, it really does. Chickens may not be 173 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: native to Africa, but as early as chickens were in Egypt, 174 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: and they became pretty common in West and Central Africa 175 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: after that, in part because they were one of the 176 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: few livestock at the dreaded chets fly did not target 177 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: uh huh cool uh. The association with spirituality continued UM 178 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: eggs were used in religious ceremonies, the chicken itself was 179 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: the most commonly sacrificed animal. Um chickens grew to become 180 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: a pretty common ingredient in West African cuisine, and it 181 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: wasn't long before fried chicken pieces started showing up in 182 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: homes markets if we look at Europe, one of the 183 00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: first written recipes of Western typically thought of as quote 184 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: American style fried chicken appeared in at seven British cookbook 185 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: written by handle Glass titled of Cookery Made Plain and Easy, 186 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: Plain and Easy, I Love Cookery. The recipe called for 187 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: coating pieces of chicken and flour and frying it in 188 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: hog's lard. This was already the preferred method of the Scottish, 189 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: as opposed to the English, who pretty much just boiled 190 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,719 Speaker 1: or baked it. The Scottish are also thought to be 191 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: the first Europeans to fried chicken. That they differed from 192 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: West African take because they didn't use any spices in 193 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: the battery they put on the chicken. Okay, and the 194 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: recipe was called quote to Marinate Chicken Simple to the point, 195 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: and the book itself was a hit in both Europe 196 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: and the United States. Battered fried chicken recipes meanwhile, started 197 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: popping up around the late eighteen thirties in Southern American cookbooks, right, 198 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: and the term Southern fried chicken didn't pop up and 199 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: writing until But fried chicken in the South had a 200 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: long history before that. And there are a couple of 201 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: boys fried chicken may have become this Southern thing. And 202 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: here we come to food's just patented food sadness part 203 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: of the episode. Yes, welcome to be depressed about a 204 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: food that you love. You knew it was coming. So 205 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: the arrival of West African slaves to the South is 206 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: one way Southern fried chicken could have originated. Uh, slaves 207 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: were allowed to keep chickens, which is unusual. They usually 208 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: they generally were not allowed to possess farm animals or 209 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: anything really. And the reason they were allowed to keep 210 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: chickens is because, um, they could serve as an alarm 211 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:58,319 Speaker 1: and also white people just didn't want them. Yeah, it 212 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: was the food, So it was the food source that 213 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: white people didn't care about exactly. Slaves could in some 214 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 1: cases raise these chickens and possibly sell them to their 215 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: owners or other slave owners. According to the World of 216 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: a Slave Encyclopedia of the material life of slaves in 217 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: the United States. There are records dating back to the 218 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: seventeen thirties of travelers mentioning and writing that slaves were 219 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: selling chicken in Carolina Low Country. They raising and selling 220 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: of chickens was one of the only ways for African 221 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: Americans to accumulate any money or items like other other 222 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: material not not wealth but stuff basics, And the chicken 223 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: business was pretty much run by black people, and thus 224 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: it was associated with black people, and the cooking of 225 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: chicken was in particular associated with black women because they 226 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: were the ones who usually do um and black women 227 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: would sometimes sell their cooked off and fried chicken at 228 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: train stations. There are records of describing black women waiter 229 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: carriers who served fried chicken to white passengers on trains, 230 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: and in some cases, black female slaves left left recipes behind, 231 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: including in Abbey fishers book What Miss Fisher Knows about 232 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: Old Southern Cooking, which is thought to be the first 233 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: cookbook published by an African American. Aside from being just 234 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: an amazing title, I know for a cookbook, I've I've 235 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: enjoyed all the titles of cookbooks so far. Yeah, not 236 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: a whole lot of duds and you knew we couldn't 237 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: do this episode without talking about awful stereo time. Okay, 238 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: here we go. Because fried chicken was so closely associated 239 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: with black people, even though they themselves didn't eat that 240 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: much of it, because the ingredients outside of the chicken 241 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: at the time where Yeah, getting that much cooking oil 242 00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: was expensive, even though it is a rather economical use 243 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: for cooking oil, assuming that you don't burn the oil, 244 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: you can reuse it. But you also need the flower. 245 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: But you need the flower, you need the spices you're using. 246 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: Spices are very pricey. Um. And white people used it 247 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: as an excuse to say and write and draw terrible things, 248 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: really terrible things. Yeah, really awful. Good job. History, black 249 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: people were negatively depicted as chicken thieves primarily, but also 250 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: chicken fryers and eaters, and this continued into the nineteenth 251 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 1: century as another way to keep newly freed slaves from integrating, 252 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: and the stereotype is still around to this day. It 253 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: is because people could could really stand to do better. Yeah, 254 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: they could. I myself went to an event not at 255 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: my the university I attended, but at different university. I 256 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: won't name it, but they it was Black History Month 257 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: and they were serving like fried chicken and great crater, right, 258 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: what is it? It's great cool, a oh great cool 259 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: and watermelon. And I was like, this is not a thing, 260 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: this is not I want to be participated. I need 261 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: to go somewhere else right now. And another interesting note, um, 262 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: West African slaves also brought with them the chickens association 263 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: with spirituality, and it's not uncommon to find piles of 264 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: chicken bones which can remains buried around plantations in ways 265 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: that hearkened back to those spiritual traditions. And kind of 266 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 1: from this, the chicken was christened the preachers bird infots, 267 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: that was what it was called. And Um, the chicken 268 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: in some form or another was frequently served at Sunday 269 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: family get together so celebrations, in part because it was 270 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: easy to transport. Uh. And to this day, I frequently 271 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: see chicken dinners um or bunches on Sundays, usually served 272 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: communal style. It's pretty certainly common around Atlanta. So that's 273 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: one way fried chicken in the South might have become 274 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: kind of synonymous. Another way has to do with Scotland 275 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: an accident. I'm not even gonna oh me me neither 276 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 1: not today, I'm unprepared. Yeah, that's that's a whole weeks. Yeah, 277 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: you need to bring in a coach. We should have 278 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,919 Speaker 1: invested in that. But yeah, Scotland because as as we 279 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: said above, Um, the Scottish may have been the first 280 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: Europeans who are frying chicken um in a vaguely similar 281 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: way to the West African tradition, although fewer spices in 282 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: the in the breading and um. And they may have 283 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: when when Scottish immigrants arrived in the American South, they 284 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: may have brought their recipes for frying chicken along with them. Um. 285 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: But hey, another depressing note. Fried chicken also had its 286 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: cultural stigma in Scotland. Back back home, it was associated 287 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: with poor people who could not afford bee for pork. 288 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: You know, when I was first researching this, um, there 289 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: was a lot of uh like search was that were 290 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: who buck chicken? Fried chicken to the South? Was Scottish 291 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 1: immigrants or West African slaves? And I was curious about 292 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: if it was Scottish immigrants, why was it the South? 293 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: And then a lot of people are saying, and I 294 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: have heard this that the thieves and less word for 295 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 1: that desirables I mean, I'm not saying it. Saying it. Yeah, yeah, 296 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 1: went to the South. And I know I have a 297 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: friend whom she claims that her family was sent to 298 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: the South for stealing chickens in Scotland. Yeah, it's like, oh, 299 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 1: that's fascinating. Yeah. So I wasn't able to find too 300 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 1: much truth in that. I also didn't have much time 301 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: to spend on it because I feel like a lot 302 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: of these episodes they lead into all these pasts and 303 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I want to learn everything about the 304 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: chicken being divined, and like, chi, we can do another 305 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: episode about divine in chickens. Some well known Southerners also 306 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: helped popular popularized fried chicken as as like a general 307 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: pop culture thing, right, And one of the first mentions 308 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: of fried chicken in the US came from the seventeen 309 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: hundreds diary. And I find this adorable that he wrote 310 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: about it in his Diary of a Governor of the 311 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: Virginia Colony, William Bird Bird joke. Oh sorry, I didn't. 312 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: I didn't have a good one. I just wanted to 313 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 1: say it. No, I understand. In eighteen four, Martha Rudolph, 314 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: who was related in law to Thomas Jefferson published a 315 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: popular cookbook with a nearly identical fried chicken recipe to 316 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 1: handed glasses aforementioned Wrisby called The Virginia Housewife. So so 317 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: it was the thing that was going around. It was, 318 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: and it was popular, especially on Sundays. Is like the 319 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: fancy dinner, especially in the upper class of the South. 320 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: And then around eight seventy eight, the first written instance 321 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: of Maryland fried chicken, which is something I had never 322 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: heard of before. It's fried chicken served with us with 323 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: like a gravy. It's it's a gravy type thing, chicken gravy. Okay. 324 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: It appeared on a menu in Saratoga, New York's Grand 325 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: Union Hotel. Mm hmm. And that's generally what we think 326 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: is why Southern fried chicken is a thing, why fried 327 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 1: chicken is associated with the South. And that brings us 328 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: to the next step in fried chickens timeline. But first 329 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: a quick break for a word from our sponsor, and 330 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: we're back, Thank you so much, sponsor. Uh so yeah, 331 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: still more history, right, fast food chains? How How did 332 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: how did this? How did this happen? It happened with 333 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: as with many things advancing in technology, because fried uh 334 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: fast food. Chicken fried or otherwise was not really a 335 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: thing we could do until chicken farming technology improved, making 336 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: chicken farming easier cheaper, and that made fried chicken less 337 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: of a special Sunday meal two more of a something 338 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: that could be enjoyed cheaply, relatively quickly, and more. It 339 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: just occurred to me that that all this like improvement 340 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 1: technology is improved, certainly improvement for us, it's probably definitely 341 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: not improvement for the chickens, and it's probably led to 342 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: the really terrible conditions the chickens are kept in these days, 343 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: which I guess we should spend a depressing episode talking about, 344 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: but that's not this episode. That's a later date. All 345 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: these advancements did not immediately equal fast food. It still 346 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: took about twenty minutes to fry some chicken, which that yeah, 347 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: that would not fly out. No, not none of fast 348 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 1: no standards like more than thirty two seconds. But with 349 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: some innovation, methods of frying large amounts of chicken and 350 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: keeping the fried chicken pieces warm and crisp were invented. 351 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: And one of these fried chicken innovators was Colonel halland Sanders. 352 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: Holland sand does he say yeah, so, Colonel Colonel Sanders, um, 353 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: the actual Colonel Sanders. He started franchising Kentucky Kentucky Fried 354 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:33,239 Speaker 1: Chicken in the nineties, and that success led to the 355 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: introduction of a bunch of other fried fried chicken fast 356 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: food places Harald's Chicken, Check Churches, Popeye, Bojangles, Chick fil 357 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 1: a Um. In fact, one of the founders of Bojangles, 358 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,959 Speaker 1: Richard Thomas, started out owning and operating KFC franchises and 359 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: would eventually become the president of operations for the entire chain. Interesting, however, 360 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 1: this this boom of fried Chicken in the nine sixties 361 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 1: following KFC, could not be maintained. And um, all these strange, little, little, 362 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: little small regional franchises, a lot of them had a 363 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 1: pop star eat either a black or white pop star 364 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: lend their name to them, Minnie Pearl, James Brown, Mahalia Jackson, um. 365 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: But all of these franchises would kind of boom and 366 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: then bust by the nineteen seventies. M hm did not know. 367 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: That kind of reminds me of Gladys Knights Chicken Wabbles. 368 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that one too. Oh I know I was 369 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: missing one. That's Georgia Laurence. I'm sorry, Gladys, I didn't. 370 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: We're going to get a letter in the middle. We 371 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 1: got to talk about Colonel Sanders. Oh yeah, he was. 372 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: He was a really fascinating human person. And in case 373 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 1: anyone doesn't know this, I feel like a lot of 374 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: people do. He was a Kentucky colonel, not like a 375 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: actual Army colonel. Totally separate thing. Yes, very different. Uh. 376 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: In his early life he was a lawyer before he 377 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: got into a fight with his old client in the courtroom, 378 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: so end of career there. He was involved in a 379 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: shootout with a competitor of his first restaurant after the 380 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: competitor repainted a gas station sign advertising for Colonel Sanders 381 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: restaurant to redirect traffic to the competitor's restaurant. And I 382 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,199 Speaker 1: was a shootout situation. He was like, what should happen now? 383 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: Is a shootout? Okay? The competitor hit the guy Sanders 384 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: was with who was Sanders boss, uh and killed him 385 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: and was convicted of murder. Goodness and Sanders remained the 386 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: symbol and spokesperson for KFC even after he sold it 387 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty four, and he would do spot checks 388 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: at KFC's around the country and if he found the 389 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: food lacking, he'd tell the owner of the KFC he 390 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 1: was visiting something along the lines of the food was 391 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:11,199 Speaker 1: quote god slop. And he went on to soothe the 392 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: then parent company of KFC who Blind Incorporated um over 393 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: misuse of his likeness and selling stuff that he didn't 394 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: have our want to have any part of. He also 395 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 1: really did not like that they moved the headquarters out 396 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: of Kentucky. Really made it mad. Yeah, well it's not 397 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: Kentucky Fried Chicken anymore at that point, who Bline Inc. 398 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: Countersued in nineteen alleging libel after Sanders publicly described KFCs 399 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: gravy as quote sludge with a quote wallpaper taste and 400 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 1: that it quote ain't fit for my dogs. Who I 401 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: lost the case. Man Sanders was sued again by who 402 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 1: Blind after he and his wife reopened to their Shelby 403 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: Thelle location restaurant under the name Claudia Sanders Dinner House, 404 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: which you can still visit to this day, and they 405 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: were talking about the possibility of franchising at KFC tends 406 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: the suit Blinds like no way. Sanders settled. Uh, and 407 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: he's just such an interesting character. He's often used as 408 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: like an example of a small businessman who really struggled 409 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: and then succeeded, because apparently he was always on the 410 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: brink of total destitution. Um. And I want to thank 411 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: Stuff you should know for turning me onto this. Those 412 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: are those are pretty okay, guys. Yeah yeah, if you guys, 413 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: you guys don't listen to stuff you should know, Probably 414 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: every single one of you does. But yeah, that's probably 415 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: why you're here right now. And KFC is hugely popular 416 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 1: outside of the US. It's familiarized people the world over 417 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: with American style ish fried chickens. And as someone who 418 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: travels a lot the fast food chains, I generally see 419 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: the most of our KFC and Subway and what I 420 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: call stealthy McDonald's. Stealthy McDonald's. Yeah, they're like made to 421 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: look really fancy and okay, they don't have the yellow arches. 422 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 1: Weird go and it's totally McDonald's. How strange. Um uh uh. 423 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: It should be mentioned here that other than the founder 424 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: of Harold's Chicken Shack, who is Harold Pierce, all of 425 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: the entrepreneurs who opened the surviving fried chicken franchises were 426 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: white dudes, which you know, it's not unexpected, but perhaps 427 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: strange is that an okay word for it? Strange being 428 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: that it's this food associated with black women specifically, And yeah, sure, um, 429 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: but there is a story about one of the failed 430 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: chains from the late nineteen sixties and early nineteen seventies 431 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: that is really strangely hopeful. Um. It's the one that 432 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: Mahalia Jackson lent her name to. And Jackson, if you're unfamiliar, 433 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: was a gospel singer and activist who moved to Chicago 434 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: from the South and worked alongside Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Um. 435 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: The restaurants in her name were owned and operated entirely 436 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: by black people and and really provided opportunities in their communities. 437 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: The chain's co founder, Benjamin Hooks, was a lawyer and 438 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: eventually a judge who would go on to lead the 439 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: Double A c P for for like a couple of decades. Almost. Um. 440 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: There's a really really beautiful piece about all of this 441 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: in Gravy, which is the magazine of the Southern Food 442 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: Ways Alliance, which is all around awesome. Um. Gravy is 443 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: also a podcast, by the way, if you haven't listened 444 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: to it, go check that out because they do amazing 445 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: stories all the time. Yeah, the availability and popularity of 446 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: fried chicken at fast food restaurants burned all of these 447 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: new takes on fried chicken, especially when it comes to 448 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: hearing it was something you wouldn't traditionally bear with, like 449 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: sweet waffles, chicken and waffles, or champagne. Yes, I know 450 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: we've said it before, We'll stand again. Also, this was 451 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: in the article I was reading, So it's not just us. 452 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: It's not just us red hot chicken that's like crazy 453 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: popular right now. Yeah. Yeah, or or Nashville style, which 454 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: I still don't think is technically a thing, but in Nashville, 455 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: but it's it's delicious. There's North Carolina style, and then 456 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: all kinds of international flavors that are getting popularity here 457 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: in the United States. I okay, look y'all. I started 458 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: delving into all of the health hubbub surrounding fried foods 459 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: so that we could do a health section in this 460 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: in this our podcast episode. Um, but it's it's really 461 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: going to need to be its own episode. Uh. There's 462 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: so much debate and research going into how different types 463 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: of oils react to different cooking temperatures and and what compounds. 464 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: They then release I in a brief summary way can 465 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: tell you like basically, don't don't eat hell of fried 466 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: foods all the time, but also don't stress out about it. 467 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: This reminds me of in high school. I had to 468 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: come up with the diet. It was part of our 469 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: health class, and my diet was I don't remember what 470 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: I called it, but the slogan was in moderation our 471 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: face obliteration, and I was clever that way. Essentially, that's 472 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: what we say and a lot of these things. Yeah, yeah, 473 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: like fat isn't terrible. Yeah, just just go easy, you know, ye, 474 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,239 Speaker 1: moderate yourself. Um, but if you're choosing for you know, 475 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: today to not be the day that you're moderating yourself, 476 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: We've got a few tips for you on how to 477 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: best do that at home. But first we're gonna take 478 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: one more break for a quick word from our sponsor 479 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 1: and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So some tips for 480 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: cooking at home, which I am delighted that Lauren wrote, 481 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: even though she's never done it. There are lots of 482 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: fashionals out there who have written really good things about it. 483 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: I totally I don't believe you, and they all check 484 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: out from the science point of view. Okay, okay, okay, no, 485 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: I want I want to get your perspective on it. Okay, 486 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: here we go. Tell me, tell me if I'm leading people. Okay, 487 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: First of all, you're gonna want a cast iron skillet 488 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: or perhaps a Dutch oven, because the iron in either 489 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: of those kind of objects is going to keep its 490 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: temperature better than other materials like like aluminum or something 491 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: like that. Right, yeah, and that temperature. Yes, you're also 492 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: going to want to use a probe thermometer to keep 493 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: the oil at the correct temperature. M That is true. 494 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: I've always just put flour in there. Oh yeah, how 495 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: do how does that work? If it's sizzles, then it's 496 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: that it's the right temperature. Yeah, like sizzles and makes 497 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: this little little dot doball. Next, I mean, perhaps, obviously, 498 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: use the best quality chicken that you can find and 499 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: or afford, you know, check the ingredients label for things 500 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: other than sicken. Yeah, which sounds obvious, But some packaged 501 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: meats have flavor added, which generally is not a good sign. Um. However, 502 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: I mean, don't feel bad if that's what you've got 503 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: to work with. Eat food. Food is great, Um, You're 504 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: also going to want to get yourself some neutral flavored 505 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: oil like canola to um to to to use for frying. 506 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't not suggest lard, but I've heard 507 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: chrisco is a is a popular one. But um, but 508 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: you know, uh yeah, neutral flavored so that the natural 509 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: chicken flavors really come through through. Yeah, especially if you've 510 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: got the good chicken exactly. Yeah. Especially then A step 511 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: that I have seen a proposed strongly is to brine 512 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: the chicken overnight. Is this an important one? Okay, she's 513 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: oh or the schools of thought, there are schools of 514 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: oh goodness. It also comes up when it comes to turkey. Yeah, okay, 515 00:33:55,000 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: well okay, Uh. The the proponents that I've seen brining say, 516 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,719 Speaker 1: you know, basically, brining will make the finished product juicier 517 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: and more tender because the meat absorbs some of that 518 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 1: that salty liquid um and salt um de Nature's protein proteins, 519 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: you know, are big folded up messes of molecules, like 520 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: like necklaces that have somehow merged while sitting in your 521 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 1: jewelry box, or um, like a bit of straying after 522 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: your your cat or your child has gotten to it 523 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,800 Speaker 1: um and salt relaxes some proteins, which makes muscle fibers 524 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,359 Speaker 1: less tough, and let's water molecules move in and hang out, 525 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 1: meaning that the cooked meat will have more moisture and 526 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: and be more tender. Oh man, the face, the face 527 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 1: that Annie is making at me is real doubtful though, No, no, no, no, 528 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: I actually think that this is um. The pendulum is 529 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: swinging towards this side of the argument that brining is 530 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: the way to go, and it does really help. I 531 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: personally never do it because I don't have to. Everybody's 532 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: typing away. It doesn't take along any well, I mean 533 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: to be fair to to make a brine, it does 534 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: take a little bit of time because you're for for 535 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: a good basic Brian, You're gonna take like four cups 536 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,760 Speaker 1: of water, a half a cup of sugar for for chicken. 537 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: I've heard sugar is a good addition um, and about 538 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 1: a fourth cup of salt. You bring it all to 539 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: a boil and stir so that it dissolves, then allowed 540 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,959 Speaker 1: to cool completely before you put your chicken in it 541 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,280 Speaker 1: um and then let it soak overnight for like twelve 542 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,839 Speaker 1: hours at least in the fridge and so that's so, 543 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,720 Speaker 1: that's like a that is a whole process. Yeah. Usually 544 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: when I'm making fried chicken, I'm making it so fast 545 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: before I can convince myself that I really should be 546 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,799 Speaker 1: eating something healthier. I don't eat any time for me 547 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 1: to change my mind. I do believe I've should do it. 548 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: Brining tastes. I think that it probably taste test. Yeah, 549 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: here's our taste test of the episode. Okay, alright, more advice. 550 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 1: If you're dredging it in buttermilk before you apply the 551 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: breading flour coating UM, then then use a really thin dridge. 552 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. That's the thing I read. I will 553 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: believe that is also something I don't do. I have 554 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,240 Speaker 1: done it again when I have like more time. My mom. Okay, 555 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: my mom does it, and it does. It's good when 556 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: you're when you're frying um. The amount of oil that 557 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 1: you should put in the pan is about like half 558 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 1: to three quarters of an inch, which is like one 559 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: point three to one point nine, and the oil temperature 560 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 1: should be three five degrees fahrenheit a k A hundred 561 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 1: and sixty three degrees celsius if you're measuring it. My 562 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: mom her number one tip when I first tried to 563 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,399 Speaker 1: make fried chicken on my own, was that make sure 564 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: it's hot enough and don't overcrowd the pan. Yeah, oh 565 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 1: that's yeah, that's that's definitely a thing that I read about. 566 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: You should cook in batches, that you don't overcrowd the 567 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: pan because doing so brings down the temperature of the 568 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: oil more than you want, which will lead to that 569 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 1: to that greasy chicken that the steam action that I 570 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: mentioned at the top of the show won't be able 571 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 1: to do its thing. Oh yeah, no, greasy chicken, don't 572 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: do it. Um. And then that you should serve it 573 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: immediately or transfer it to an oven like just below 574 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 1: boiling point, like like two degrees fahrenheits something like that, 575 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: like nine degrees Elsie's. They're about um to keep it 576 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 1: warm and crisp. This is a much fancier way of 577 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: doing it than me. And I don't mean that in 578 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: a bad way at all. That because fried chicken, like 579 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: I said, it's one of my favorite things. Yeah, so 580 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: I wonder if I did this, if there would be 581 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 1: a whole another world of like or maybe maybe they're 582 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: both equally delicious. Yeah, I mean, at the end of 583 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,879 Speaker 1: the day, you're frying something that's tasty and then you're 584 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: eating it. Uh. And I think that that just about 585 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 1: wraps up everything that we have to say about fried chicken. 586 00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: But let us turn for a moment to some listener mail. 587 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 1: Y'all you all right stuff and it's great. Yeah, we 588 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:06,720 Speaker 1: love it. So Veronica wrote in to say, first and foremost, 589 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: I absolutely love your podcast, especially the puns. Yes, thank you, 590 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,760 Speaker 1: Thank you, Veronica. Okay, back to Varonca. I'm from San Antonio, Texas, 591 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: and I remember the Nighthawk frozen dinners. They came in 592 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,839 Speaker 1: a boring brown box and we're not superhero worthy at all. 593 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 1: I had no idea they were Texas based, but I 594 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: remember eating the mini frozen dinners at Grandma's house. I 595 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 1: even remember eating the half frozen steak. We didn't have 596 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,720 Speaker 1: a great microwave and soggy tater tots. I can't believe 597 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: I liked those, but he definitely brought up a nice 598 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: childhood memory. I look forward to your next episode. Thank you, Nic, 599 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: it's wonderful. I was so ah van those those nighthawks. Yeah, 600 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: you're bad. We don't live up to the superhero standard. 601 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: Guy Bird elevated herself to hero status in my book 602 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,320 Speaker 1: by sending in this. She wrote in the Unsweetened History 603 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,320 Speaker 1: and Tech of Sugar, and he mentioned trying a dessert 604 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 1: called peanut butter ice gravel and searching for it again 605 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: for years. Yes, I did, back the sky Bird, Well, 606 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 1: look no further. Yes, it is called bingsha, which does 607 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: translate to ice sand, but it's really a cross between 608 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,280 Speaker 1: a smoothie and a frap. Note the Chinese do call 609 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:22,760 Speaker 1: sugar sha tongue with the first character often referring to gravel, 610 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 1: but a better translation for the term is granulated sugar mhm. 611 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,320 Speaker 1: And the recipe is as followed. She sent a recipe. 612 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: I was so happy, I like, I jumped out of 613 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,879 Speaker 1: my chair to your table. Spoons, peanut butter, one cup ice, 614 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: one tablespoon white sugar, half a cup fresh milk, condensed 615 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: milk to taste. Throw it all in a blender and 616 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: blend until the ice crystals disappear. So easy, Back to 617 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,360 Speaker 1: sky Bird. There's really not actually that much sugar in 618 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: this dessert, so enjoy it to your heart's content. I 619 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 1: do recommend looking for this dessert in Hong Kong or 620 00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,840 Speaker 1: Taiwan restaurants because their restaurant versions are giant and extravagant. 621 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 1: I will enjoy this to my heart's content. Thank you, 622 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you sky Bird for sending you this. Oh, 623 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: we should do a video. We should do a little 624 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,759 Speaker 1: a little video for social Oh it's gonna bring back 625 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: so many memories of my time in China. I can't 626 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: wait to taste it. Also, congrats to Amanda and Elizabeth 627 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: who answered the pizza bonus call. When it comes to yogurt, 628 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,320 Speaker 1: that was actually something we talked about in our Frozen 629 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: Food episode because of the way recording and publishing schedules 630 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 1: work very bizarre. But they both sent two different recipes 631 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: for pizza involving yogurt, which is oh, man, yeah, it's 632 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 1: both in the dough like, oh, that sounds great. Yeah, 633 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 1: I know. I was like, how could how could this 634 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: have alluded us? Thank you? Thank you both. If you 635 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: would like to email us recipes or ideas or anything else, 636 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,480 Speaker 1: we have an email address at food step at how 637 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,479 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Yes, we also have a couple 638 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,800 Speaker 1: of social media accounts. You can find us on Twitter. 639 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,360 Speaker 1: Our address there is at food stuff hs W stands 640 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 1: for how Stuff Works. The company that owns us We're 641 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,840 Speaker 1: also on Instagram, are handled there is just at food stuff. 642 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:18,279 Speaker 1: We hope to hear from you, because hearing from you 643 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: so far has been extremely lovely. It really is um 644 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,840 Speaker 1: and you will hear from us again sometime soon. We 645 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,759 Speaker 1: hope that many more good things in the meanwhile are 646 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:38,279 Speaker 1: coming your way