WEBVTT - Breaking Down the Blockchain 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.800 I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:05.640 going to have to start making better content. I think 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:07.160 we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:10.200 When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:12.319 I think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:15.600 trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:19.200 happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:29.280 really is? What's up? I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Christin. 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:35.680 Welcome back at Landia soon to be Blockchain with returning 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:39.680 guests and fan favorite Jared Dicker, the new CEO of 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:44.159 blockchain company Poet. That's pet Et Jared who came from 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:46.959 the Washington Post. He led ad tech at the Washington 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:49.720 Post and the whole ad lab went over, took a 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.120 big leap, went over to the startup Poet, and he's 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:55.760 going to explain to us why blockchain matters, what it 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:59.720 really is, why it matters for media, and what is 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:04.120 going to happen to creators and the whole buying system 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:20.040 in media and content. We'll be right back and we're 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:23.119 back in the studio. I'm Jared Dicker taking over. This 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:28.080 is at Landia, and here we go. Band is back together. 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:33.480 Jared Dicker, CEO of poet po dot et. Yeah, for 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:36.720 the past six months, I have transitioned into the blockchain, 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:43.640 which has been um it is it kind of is 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:48.240 you know, Um, every time I switched a job, you 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:50.360 look back and it's like, Wow, I can't believe I've 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:53.880 been here for so long. But uh, in the blockchain 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:56.160 space and apt poet, yes, I definitely feel like I've 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.080 been here for this long because it is a lot 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:00.520 of work and it's very fast, and I'm sure as 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:04.320 you guys know, um through following the trades and conversations 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:07.320 that you've had, it's it's the thing to talk about, right. 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:09.520 You have cannabis, you have blockchain, and then you have 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:15.040 AI mL, like yeah, artificial intelligence, machine learning. But I 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:17.320 feel like we're getting into like another winter of AI 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.680 and m L, and we're probably going into a winter 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:23.639 of blockchain because people don't really think it's real and 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:25.040 a lot in a lot of cases, there are a 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:29.320 lot of mainstream folks in advertising, marketing and media who 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:32.399 maybe are enamored with the idea and the concept of blockchain, 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:38.359 but they don't see the reality. So uh, you're right, um, 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:41.040 when you say that blockchain is kind of used as 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:43.640 as a marketing tool right now. I'd equate it to 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:47.400 uh these strategies behind at tech, where you have something 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.320 that's somewhat simple, and when you break it down and 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:53.600 understand what it does, it's it's very simple, but the 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:56.080 people that control it are purposely making it confusing to 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:58.880 keep others out. And that's kind of what you're seeing 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:04.760 with blockchain, particularly particularly in the media space, right um uh. 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.080 Note that this has been around for you know, almost 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.440 a decade, and that there's been a lot of work 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.080 and focus going into it, but as it's impacted media, 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:14.680 you know, especially u C blockchain in the ad space 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:17.320 and what I could do for advertising and transparency and 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:19.480 trust less systems and all of these things, a lot 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:22.920 of that is absolutely just lip service. So blockchain is 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:27.120 just a distributed ledger. So the main differences between that 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:29.600 and how people use a database today is that it's 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:32.440 just controlled by a consensus. So basically, if we were 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:35.280 having this conversation on the blockchain, all of the information 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:37.720 is recorded, and Laura can change what she said, and 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:39.920 Alexa can't change what she said, and I can't change 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:42.160 what I said without a group of us you know, 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:45.520 agreeing collectively on what should be changed and what should 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:50.160 not be changed. And that's really it. So when people say, right, um, 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:52.920 the blockchain, like we are using the blockchain to solve 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.440 for this um, they're most likely able to use a 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:58.960 database to have that solution be better than what they 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:03.520 do today. And that's like biggest um kind of argument 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:07.200 that's coming from people, whether they're pro or anti blockchain, 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:09.600 particularly in the media space, is kind of like, well, 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:11.320 why do you need a blockchain? Now? The cool part 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:14.600 about blockchain is that how can you best leverage this 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:18.680 distributed ledger and put incentivized systems against it. Early huff 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.839 Post days, we did huff Post badging and comment moderation 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:26.280 where we were self governing the comment moderation system at 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:29.520 the huffing in Post against the technology that we call Julia. 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:32.360 But we were basically able to incentivize people within our 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:36.040 community to find the best comments, curate the best conversations, 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:39.919 highlight that content, give them with intrinsic rewards, so that 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:41.760 they were kind of doing the job that the huffing 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.280 Impost should be doing, but it was controlled empowered by 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:47.279 the network. That's the coolest part about what blockchain is 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:49.920 today and what the best technologies will enable it to do. 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.920 It's not just about this distributed ledger and being able 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:56.440 to categorize and have information that is immutable and cannot 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:59.120 be changed. It's about how you can incentivize people to 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:02.400 do things again that information and against that data. So 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:04.239 other than it being a ledger. When you talk about 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:06.640 media solutions, right, one of the words that you just 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.720 said around some of the solves that brands are thinking 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:13.000 about is transparency. Right. So obviously if this is an 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:17.280 uneditable ledger, brands are then able to go in and 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:22.360 identify what we often in this space, find a new technology, 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.360 get excited about it, and just slap it on things, right, 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:29.080 and and you all know this best. But um, that's 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:31.880 exactly what's happening again here with the blockchain, um, which 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:34.040 is a huge mistake. What we really need when we're 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:36.680 thinking about these technologies and the opportunities is how can 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.880 we actually create something new, right, not back into existing 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.440 systems where these technologies didn't exist when these problems first 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:45.760 came about and shoving them in there to try to 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:47.919 put a band aid on it, but actually create something 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:51.760 new and create new behaviors. So identifying things like transparency, 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:54.440 How can we know where our money is being spent? 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:58.600 How can we best engage users? UM and his blockchain 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.440 is solution for that. How we be better with transacting 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:05.320 right with influencers and being able to identify influencers based 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:09.040 on the content they've created and their reputation and things that. Again, 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:13.640 a ledger and an incentivized system can help bring forward 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.920 right more information behind that to do so, the biggest 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:20.200 one today, which is what we're focusing on a poet 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:21.880 and a lot of others in the space, is kind 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:25.480 of like, how can you provide information behind what you're 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:29.440 about to consume? So UM being able to expose more 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:32.000 information so that people can make better decisions. So when 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:35.640 you drink a can of coke or you smoke a cigarette, Um, 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:37.880 you're free to do whatever you want, but there is 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.239 more information that tells you're like, these are the ingredients 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.400 behind what you're about to put into your body. And 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.279 yes it's FDA regulated, but it helps you make better 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.680 informed decisions towards what makes most sense for you. Every 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:52.080 single piece of information, whether it's content, whether it's a 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:56.560 transaction like bitcoin, UM it's a public exposed ledger of 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:00.840 information that everyone could see, right, and then the beauty 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.560 of that, which is what we're saying with the incentive systems, 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:06.960 is like what can we do to spark behaviors against that? 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:10.200 So if we are looking for who an author is, 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:12.840 or if something has been fact checked, or how has 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.160 something been sourced or where has your money gone, you 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:18.760 could have the Ledger and have that information and then 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:22.120 give incentive systems for people to make things verifiable, like 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.560 be able to say, is this actually Laura Crerenti who 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.400 wrote this? Well, yes it is, because we found that 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.160 this is the source of the article right through where 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:34.320 it was originally published, and that claim that Laura is 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:38.360 the author is now verifiable. Um, but someone may say 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.800 I created this article, Um, my name is Laura Crerenti, 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:43.440 and then you find out that it was actually written 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.520 five years ago by Alexa Kristen. If you do choose 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.800 to read breitemart Right or huffing In Post or The 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:53.960 Daily Caller, you can so choose to. But this is 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.800 a technology and opportunity for you to learn more information 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:59.400 about what you're about to consume. That this source of 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:02.320 this content may not be verified, right, Like we think 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.640 of being able to label information like this is sponsored 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:08.120 and this isn't sponsored but that, but it's not binary. 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.280 It's not up to the publishers anymore. Right, The conversation 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:15.240 with publishers today is we're valuable and we're premium, and 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:20.320 yes it's premium, and I don't subscribe to like that 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:25.680 whole premium content industry. It is, but the industry, right 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:29.600 has a premium content basically stacked right, right, a charge 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.000 against that, right, And it's proving my point exactly what 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:34.920 you said, because we say premium, but that's an insider 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:37.760 definition that is not conveyed at all to the consumers. 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:40.280 That's like hasn't really been able to be quantified in 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:44.080 any particularly thank you. So that is what we're building. 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:46.200 We want to be able to convey the value behind 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:49.120 the creator's work and what that really means. Right. We 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:54.040 constantly emphasize um things that happen in the results, right, 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:56.040 like how many page views do you have, how many 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.880 UH followers you have, how many engagement And that is 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:01.680 nothing to do with the reason why you went and 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:05.320 engaged with that musician or publisher or creator in the 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:09.280 first place, because we have no way of identifying or 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:12.559 verifying that information, right, and being able to explose it. 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:15.040 So the last thing I'll say on this rant is 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.960 the other notion is why are publishers premium to Alexis point? Like, 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.640 what is premium? And his premium is stack in the system, 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:27.000 And why is the Washington Post content more premium than 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.080 Ben Thompson Stratechory's right, it was operating on his own 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:34.600 and that's because we don't have a way to quantify 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:36.560 it or to show it that you don't have a 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:42.240 way to verify it by the buyer. That's the point here, right, 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:44.280 And I think that's for me at least, that's what's 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.440 exciting about blockchain. Blockchain for me is at the end 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.880 of the day, we're putting the hands of the verification 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:56.120 and the validation into a public, transparent setting for the 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:59.360 community to decide, right, And that's the point. And a 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.320 lot of the project explain the gray, right, Like we 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.480 live in a black and white world where where you're 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:05.559 either on one side or the other, and no one 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.560 is focusing on the gray. So so today we're in 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.520 a world where there's fake news, right, and what's real 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.480 and what's fake and what's truth and what's false. However, 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.600 while I believe that everything should be objective. We live 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:20.520 in a world that's extremely subjective. You're talking about very 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:26.160 hard objective things about verification, transparency, data, right, You're talking 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:31.360 about data, information backed shit. But you're also talking about 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:37.719 major movements in society and culture in thinking, in brands, 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:43.439 in preferences and personalization. Right, because a new infrastructure is 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:47.280 built that actually exposes all of that. Yeah, the coolest 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:49.200 part about what could happen in black chain and media 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:51.400 is that the web today is built off to ours 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:55.400 right and decency and RELI right. So when you search 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:57.960 content right, or you're in your timeline on Facebook or 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:01.760 Twitter or Google, you search based on when something was published, right, 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:05.960 or or um being able to sort it right based 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.600 on published time, or you want something that's relevant. I 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:10.920 I want to search for something and I want those 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.960 results to get back verbatim the information that I have, 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:15.680 and that is the way for the past ten to 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.520 twenty years we have discovered and looked for content. Now 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.360 what's happened is that we've actually changed the way creators 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.760 create based on those results. So instead of when Michael 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.719 Jackson passed away saying Michael Jackson passes away due to 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:31.280 drug overdose, doctor investigated, we did, Michael Jackson dead right, 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:33.040 because that's what people are going to search, and that 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:36.079 actually takes the value out of why I read in 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.000 author's work or creator's work, because now they're actually creating 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.720 based on how they're valued and the results. So blockchain 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:46.679 brings reputation. The third are so recency, relevancy, reputation. How 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:49.480 do we put emphasis and how do we put information 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:53.520 in quantifiable metrics against the work that goes into it, 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:56.080 the effort that goes into it, and not just the results, 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.640 not just how fast you published or when it was published, 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:02.480 or how relevant you can of your headline or clickbait 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:04.720 or all of these things that are driving us nuts, 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:07.680 But how do we now put focus back on the value. 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.680 So somebody who's who spent the entirety of her career 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:16.400 evaluating and buying media and content and having to associate 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:21.120 value or cost against um what that was being pitched 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.760 as is worth, or having done homework to understand the 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.440 market rates, etcetera. Well, you're basically alluding to is that 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:31.040 blockchain is going to be able to democratize premium and 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:35.560 equaling the playing field to say, consumer choice is what's 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:39.479 going to drive premium and what they decide is valuable, 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:44.000 whether it's person A or entity B, is up to them. 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:48.800 That's right. Yeah, we have not defined premium right to 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:53.640 alexis point, and premium is in the eyes of the 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:57.880 buyer or the consumer or the beholder. And what's happened 0:12:57.920 --> 0:12:59.880 to date is that we've had a fox guarding the 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.880 in house scenario. Right. We've had the New York Times 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.560 and even Netflix and Spotify and all of these platforms 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:08.520 say we're premium because of this, you should subscribe because 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.160 of this, and now and we're seeing a media first 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.560 bitatal shifts, right. We're seeing consumers say, I don't get it. 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:16.160 I don't get why I'm paying for this. Why do 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:18.360 I need to pay for all these subscriptions? There's too 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:20.319 many media companies, right, Like it's not that there's not 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:24.280 enough advertising dollars, there's too many publishers, right. So and 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:28.080 now the same publishers right that that kind of infiltrated 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:30.960 and took the ad revenue are now saying we're doing subscriptions. 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:32.880 So now they're gonna take more of the subscription pome. 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:34.400 Do you you wander what's gonna happen? There's not gonna be 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.040 enough money, So like, we kind of need things to 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:39.760 die in order for new things to exist. And what 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:45.160 you're saying is true because the blockchain is a distributed ledger. 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:47.640 It is a network driven by the network. It is 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.800 consumer driven. It's not Fox guarding the henhouse. These are 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:53.120 people that are gonna put value on things based on 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:57.120 what they feel, right, is verifiable, interesting, Right. What they 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:01.959 could then associate with that they think is good content 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:03.959 that's relevant to them. So how can they curate their 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.560 own experiences? How could they pay and give value to 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:10.440 You know at Ben Thompson versus Washington Post, do authors 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:15.400 and creators need to be with media companies or our 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:19.000 media companies? Yeah, or our media company, And like I 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:21.600 do believe media companies are valuable, but their value maybe 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.440 we could get you distribution, right, we could get you 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:27.160 pr and publicity. They're kind of like the labels right 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:30.080 for music, Like you don't necessarily need them to be 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.680 a creator, but they could help you. They're like an agency, right, 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.920 And and you often forget like, oh, a publisher is 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.080 a place where I could create content, right, and they're 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:41.000 making me me? No, like you make you you and 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:43.120 a publisher could help distribute you. But when you're ready 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:44.520 to go out on your own, or when you want 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.600 to go to a different label or agency or test 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.040 new waters, you should go and there should be systems 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:51.880 in place that allow you to enable that. To who 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.240 are you working with? What media companies are you working 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:56.680 with right now? So so we're speaking to a ton 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.800 of media companies. To be completely honest, I'm really for 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.120 gusing on the long tail talking to any brands. Some 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.040 brands I have to be like, honest, we're a fifteen 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:08.680 person team and fourteen or engineers, so it's literally me 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:11.480 just running around and having these combos. We have a 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:16.000 twenty person community um that's actually leveraging and using Poet, 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.320 and about fifty large across all of our different systems 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:23.120 that are putting information onto Poet. These are like screenwriters, independent, 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:26.040 who are they like the majority of your digital artists 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:29.000 their physical artists. Like I want to get these partnerships right. 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.760 I want to get the big publishers and media companies 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:34.040 that I have great relationships with that want to jump 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:35.960 on board and be a part of it too. But 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.840 I don't want to distract from this big mission because well, 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:41.440 Laura described is exactly what we're looking to do, and 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:44.240 that's a ship ton of work, and it's highly ambitious 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.160 and a lot of education, right, and to take on 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:49.200 a new brand or a new publisher that is going 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.840 to look for what's our revenue strategy off of this 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:54.120 thing in three months? We don't need that yet, that's right. 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:57.680 But will you eventually need salespeople to sit on top 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.560 of your consortium of ass as that are going out 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:06.080 and saying like, here's the Poet top one this week 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:10.440 and here's why, Like because then it transitions from ad 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.160 teck like this Poet actually become a media company, right 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.480 that the next question, Yeah, that's a good question. So 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.600 so POD is the underlying technology with all of these things. 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:22.120 So think of HTTP right where you type HTTPS into 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:24.520 your browser, right, Like that is what pode is doing 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.280 at a protocol level. How could people build reputation, how 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:31.160 could they license content? Right? How could they build verifiable content? 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:34.080 And then there's all these apps right that are going 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.200 to be built on top. What we're really looking to 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:39.760 do is invest in that protocol so that creators cannot 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.640 just leverage it for their own I P but also 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:45.200 start building tools and technologies on top of it. Like 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.720 not to necessarily say like the app store, but to 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.880 make an analogy like Apple as the device and Poet 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.320 as the protocol, and what could be built on top 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:56.400 of that is endless, Right, how do I build the 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:59.800 hooks that make it so accessible and so obvious for 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:02.080 them to do it that takes no additional efforts, So 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.960 that we build this repository of creators like you that say, 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.119 do you want to what? I love what poet is doing. 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:10.720 I love what this person is building on Poet, But 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:12.199 I have an idea that I'm gonna build on my 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:14.320 own and commercialize on top of Poet that I'm taking 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.600 for myself. Yeah. I mean the whole point is getting 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:20.280 your content out there to an audience and getting it 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:26.600 monetized as i P that is valuable. Who are poets competitors? Yeah? Yeah, 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.800 it's a So the cool part about blockchain right now 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:33.000 is that because a lot of the projects are open source, 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.679 you know, meaning that like you don't really own the 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:38.680 information to the i P, anyone could use it. It's 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:43.720 more collaborative than competitive. At this point. There's companies called 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.280 uh steam steam it, which is kind of like a 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.680 Reddit for blockchain, but there's not so much like a 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:54.119 one to one type comparison. I think what we're fortunate 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:57.120 in doing and where our investment lies is can we 0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:00.639 build something that could bread an ecosis them right, that 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:04.600 could bread competitors and and and bred people to start 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:06.560 thinking and building on top of it. What we could 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:10.040 all agree on is that again not in I'm very 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:13.560 good at non apples to apples comparisons, but hopefully they 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.160 make sense. Um, it's like we're in a napster moment 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:21.880 with creators and media. It's not necessarily that people want 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.000 things for free. It's just that there's really no good 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.760 systems for people to see the value to get verifiable, 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.240 reputable content and to be able to know that their 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:34.399 rewarding creators directly. When napsture was around, like the music 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.840 and information you got wasn't great, right, Like songs were 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:41.879 cut off, the quality was shitty. You, but you had 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:44.040 no other option to get digital music right, that was 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:47.280 the only platform until people saw what needed to be 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:49.479 done in order to make this a real viable product. 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.399 People wanted digital music, So how can you make it reputable? 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:54.520 How can you make it verifiable? Right? How can you 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:57.080 make sure that when you're purchasing something or streaming or 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.760 licensing something, that it's the best quality and that it's 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:01.560 men from the artists, and that it's the work that 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:04.560 you paid for and it's paying the artists. Right. That's 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:06.440 kind of where we are right now in media, which 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:08.360 is kind of like people are like people are using 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.439 ad blocker, or people don't want to subscribe, and it's like, no, 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.159 it's not that people don't want to do these things. One, 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:16.959 there's no better system, and too, we're really bad at 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:19.480 conveying the value to these consumers. There are a lot 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:21.920 of people who actually know that the situation from a 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:25.360 consumer side is shitty. They're annoyed, but they don't actually 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:28.480 write we don't think about it because it's just been 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:33.359 this behavior, right, and we've been trained by institutions and 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:36.960 by the media companies to have the behavior versus going 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:39.280 into a more natural behavior. This is like when we 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:42.159 talk to Charlie Melcher two years ago, right, and it 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:43.920 was powerful and he was saying, you know, at the 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:45.840 end of the day, and was so obvious, but we 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:47.760 were like, oh, he's like, at the end of the day, 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:51.800 screens aren't natural. He's like, we should not have screens right. 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:53.119 But at the end of the day, we should be 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.240 living in like three six, should be living in the 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:57.760 natural world. I mean, this is the same kind of 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:01.359 right idea, is that there our behaviors that are natural 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:04.600 to us that we've now kind of stopped right and 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:07.560 build other things around that have diverted our behaviors to 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.439 something else. So I don't think if you went to 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:15.600 you know, a consumer and a USA Today subscriber, right, 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:17.440 would they say this is a pain in the ass. 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:19.920 They're like, no, I'm getting my news. Yeah. I mean 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:22.320 I actually have a question for you guys, which is, 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:27.200 we've seen the evolution of how we deliver content change 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:29.639 so much, right, whether it's how you look at the 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:33.639 formats right and from text to video to audio, or 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.640 you look at the platforms like how it's distributed through 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:40.840 a Facebook or a Twitter, Google or Snapchat. But the 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:46.040 revenue models never change, right, And and we keep reconstructing 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:48.560 these things. And in my mind, and like I'm curious 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:51.640 your take, because you're both in this space, is don't 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:53.879 we kind of have to blow the whole thing up, right, Like, 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.520 like we haven't followed suits, so coming up with a 0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:00.800 new subscription bundle or a new ad unit not necessarily 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:05.280 won't supplement or be sufficient enough to sustain what we're 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:07.239 looking to do, but it's not going to make this 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:12.240 industry better. Well you're basically creating is an opportunity for 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:18.040 buyers to think about how they do direct deals with creators. 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:20.720 I mean this is this is the I think one 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:22.959 of the big points and something you and I had 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:25.639 talked about Jared a while ago is like, this is DTC, 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:28.800 but it's direct to creator, right, I mean that's the 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:32.320