Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are
Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time.
Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one.
Speaker 1: I think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're
Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you
Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It
Speaker 1: really is? What's up? I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Christin.
Speaker 1: Welcome back at Landia soon to be Blockchain with returning
Speaker 1: guests and fan favorite Jared Dicker, the new CEO of
Speaker 1: blockchain company Poet. That's pet Et Jared who came from
Speaker 1: the Washington Post. He led ad tech at the Washington
Speaker 1: Post and the whole ad lab went over, took a
Speaker 1: big leap, went over to the startup Poet, and he's
Speaker 1: going to explain to us why blockchain matters, what it
Speaker 1: really is, why it matters for media, and what is
Speaker 1: going to happen to creators and the whole buying system
Speaker 1: in media and content. We'll be right back and we're
Speaker 1: back in the studio. I'm Jared Dicker taking over. This
Speaker 1: is at Landia, and here we go. Band is back together.
Speaker 1: Jared Dicker, CEO of poet po dot et. Yeah, for
Speaker 1: the past six months, I have transitioned into the blockchain,
Speaker 1: which has been um it is it kind of is
Speaker 1: you know, Um, every time I switched a job, you
Speaker 1: look back and it's like, Wow, I can't believe I've
Speaker 1: been here for so long. But uh, in the blockchain
Speaker 1: space and apt poet, yes, I definitely feel like I've
Speaker 1: been here for this long because it is a lot
Speaker 1: of work and it's very fast, and I'm sure as
Speaker 1: you guys know, um through following the trades and conversations
Speaker 1: that you've had, it's it's the thing to talk about, right.
Speaker 1: You have cannabis, you have blockchain, and then you have
Speaker 1: AI mL, like yeah, artificial intelligence, machine learning. But I
Speaker 1: feel like we're getting into like another winter of AI
Speaker 1: and m L, and we're probably going into a winter
Speaker 1: of blockchain because people don't really think it's real and
Speaker 1: a lot in a lot of cases, there are a
Speaker 1: lot of mainstream folks in advertising, marketing and media who
Speaker 1: maybe are enamored with the idea and the concept of blockchain,
Speaker 1: but they don't see the reality. So uh, you're right, um,
Speaker 1: when you say that blockchain is kind of used as
Speaker 1: as a marketing tool right now. I'd equate it to
Speaker 1: uh these strategies behind at tech, where you have something
Speaker 1: that's somewhat simple, and when you break it down and
Speaker 1: understand what it does, it's it's very simple, but the
Speaker 1: people that control it are purposely making it confusing to
Speaker 1: keep others out. And that's kind of what you're seeing
Speaker 1: with blockchain, particularly particularly in the media space, right um uh.
Speaker 1: Note that this has been around for you know, almost
Speaker 1: a decade, and that there's been a lot of work
Speaker 1: and focus going into it, but as it's impacted media,
Speaker 1: you know, especially u C blockchain in the ad space
Speaker 1: and what I could do for advertising and transparency and
Speaker 1: trust less systems and all of these things, a lot
Speaker 1: of that is absolutely just lip service. So blockchain is
Speaker 1: just a distributed ledger. So the main differences between that
Speaker 1: and how people use a database today is that it's
Speaker 1: just controlled by a consensus. So basically, if we were
Speaker 1: having this conversation on the blockchain, all of the information
Speaker 1: is recorded, and Laura can change what she said, and
Speaker 1: Alexa can't change what she said, and I can't change
Speaker 1: what I said without a group of us you know,
Speaker 1: agreeing collectively on what should be changed and what should
Speaker 1: not be changed. And that's really it. So when people say, right, um,
Speaker 1: the blockchain, like we are using the blockchain to solve
Speaker 1: for this um, they're most likely able to use a
Speaker 1: database to have that solution be better than what they
Speaker 1: do today. And that's like biggest um kind of argument
Speaker 1: that's coming from people, whether they're pro or anti blockchain,
Speaker 1: particularly in the media space, is kind of like, well,
Speaker 1: why do you need a blockchain? Now? The cool part
Speaker 1: about blockchain is that how can you best leverage this
Speaker 1: distributed ledger and put incentivized systems against it. Early huff
Speaker 1: Post days, we did huff Post badging and comment moderation
Speaker 1: where we were self governing the comment moderation system at
Speaker 1: the huffing in Post against the technology that we call Julia.
Speaker 1: But we were basically able to incentivize people within our
Speaker 1: community to find the best comments, curate the best conversations,
Speaker 1: highlight that content, give them with intrinsic rewards, so that
Speaker 1: they were kind of doing the job that the huffing
Speaker 1: Impost should be doing, but it was controlled empowered by
Speaker 1: the network. That's the coolest part about what blockchain is
Speaker 1: today and what the best technologies will enable it to do.
Speaker 1: It's not just about this distributed ledger and being able
Speaker 1: to categorize and have information that is immutable and cannot
Speaker 1: be changed. It's about how you can incentivize people to
Speaker 1: do things again that information and against that data. So
Speaker 1: other than it being a ledger. When you talk about
Speaker 1: media solutions, right, one of the words that you just
Speaker 1: said around some of the solves that brands are thinking
Speaker 1: about is transparency. Right. So obviously if this is an
Speaker 1: uneditable ledger, brands are then able to go in and
Speaker 1: identify what we often in this space, find a new technology,
Speaker 1: get excited about it, and just slap it on things, right,
Speaker 1: and and you all know this best. But um, that's
Speaker 1: exactly what's happening again here with the blockchain, um, which
Speaker 1: is a huge mistake. What we really need when we're
Speaker 1: thinking about these technologies and the opportunities is how can
Speaker 1: we actually create something new, right, not back into existing
Speaker 1: systems where these technologies didn't exist when these problems first
Speaker 1: came about and shoving them in there to try to
Speaker 1: put a band aid on it, but actually create something
Speaker 1: new and create new behaviors. So identifying things like transparency,
Speaker 1: How can we know where our money is being spent?
Speaker 1: How can we best engage users? UM and his blockchain
Speaker 1: is solution for that. How we be better with transacting
Speaker 1: right with influencers and being able to identify influencers based
Speaker 1: on the content they've created and their reputation and things that. Again,
Speaker 1: a ledger and an incentivized system can help bring forward
Speaker 1: right more information behind that to do so, the biggest
Speaker 1: one today, which is what we're focusing on a poet
Speaker 1: and a lot of others in the space, is kind
Speaker 1: of like, how can you provide information behind what you're
Speaker 1: about to consume? So UM being able to expose more
Speaker 1: information so that people can make better decisions. So when
Speaker 1: you drink a can of coke or you smoke a cigarette, Um,
Speaker 1: you're free to do whatever you want, but there is
Speaker 1: more information that tells you're like, these are the ingredients
Speaker 1: behind what you're about to put into your body. And
Speaker 1: yes it's FDA regulated, but it helps you make better
Speaker 1: informed decisions towards what makes most sense for you. Every
Speaker 1: single piece of information, whether it's content, whether it's a
Speaker 1: transaction like bitcoin, UM it's a public exposed ledger of
Speaker 1: information that everyone could see, right, and then the beauty
Speaker 1: of that, which is what we're saying with the incentive systems,
Speaker 1: is like what can we do to spark behaviors against that?
Speaker 1: So if we are looking for who an author is,
Speaker 1: or if something has been fact checked, or how has
Speaker 1: something been sourced or where has your money gone, you
Speaker 1: could have the Ledger and have that information and then
Speaker 1: give incentive systems for people to make things verifiable, like
Speaker 1: be able to say, is this actually Laura Crerenti who
Speaker 1: wrote this? Well, yes it is, because we found that
Speaker 1: this is the source of the article right through where
Speaker 1: it was originally published, and that claim that Laura is
Speaker 1: the author is now verifiable. Um, but someone may say
Speaker 1: I created this article, Um, my name is Laura Crerenti,
Speaker 1: and then you find out that it was actually written
Speaker 1: five years ago by Alexa Kristen. If you do choose
Speaker 1: to read breitemart Right or huffing In Post or The
Speaker 1: Daily Caller, you can so choose to. But this is
Speaker 1: a technology and opportunity for you to learn more information
Speaker 1: about what you're about to consume. That this source of
Speaker 1: this content may not be verified, right, Like we think
Speaker 1: of being able to label information like this is sponsored
Speaker 1: and this isn't sponsored but that, but it's not binary.
Speaker 1: It's not up to the publishers anymore. Right, The conversation
Speaker 1: with publishers today is we're valuable and we're premium, and
Speaker 1: yes it's premium, and I don't subscribe to like that
Speaker 1: whole premium content industry. It is, but the industry, right
Speaker 1: has a premium content basically stacked right, right, a charge
Speaker 1: against that, right, And it's proving my point exactly what
Speaker 1: you said, because we say premium, but that's an insider
Speaker 1: definition that is not conveyed at all to the consumers.
Speaker 1: That's like hasn't really been able to be quantified in
Speaker 1: any particularly thank you. So that is what we're building.
Speaker 1: We want to be able to convey the value behind
Speaker 1: the creator's work and what that really means. Right. We
Speaker 1: constantly emphasize um things that happen in the results, right,
Speaker 1: like how many page views do you have, how many
Speaker 1: UH followers you have, how many engagement And that is
Speaker 1: nothing to do with the reason why you went and
Speaker 1: engaged with that musician or publisher or creator in the
Speaker 1: first place, because we have no way of identifying or
Speaker 1: verifying that information, right, and being able to explose it.
Speaker 1: So the last thing I'll say on this rant is
Speaker 1: the other notion is why are publishers premium to Alexis point? Like,
Speaker 1: what is premium? And his premium is stack in the system,
Speaker 1: And why is the Washington Post content more premium than
Speaker 1: Ben Thompson Stratechory's right, it was operating on his own
Speaker 1: and that's because we don't have a way to quantify
Speaker 1: it or to show it that you don't have a
Speaker 1: way to verify it by the buyer. That's the point here, right,
Speaker 1: And I think that's for me at least, that's what's
Speaker 1: exciting about blockchain. Blockchain for me is at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, we're putting the hands of the verification
Speaker 1: and the validation into a public, transparent setting for the
Speaker 1: community to decide, right, And that's the point. And a
Speaker 1: lot of the project explain the gray, right, Like we
Speaker 1: live in a black and white world where where you're
Speaker 1: either on one side or the other, and no one
Speaker 1: is focusing on the gray. So so today we're in
Speaker 1: a world where there's fake news, right, and what's real
Speaker 1: and what's fake and what's truth and what's false. However,
Speaker 1: while I believe that everything should be objective. We live
Speaker 1: in a world that's extremely subjective. You're talking about very
Speaker 1: hard objective things about verification, transparency, data, right, You're talking
Speaker 1: about data, information backed shit. But you're also talking about
Speaker 1: major movements in society and culture in thinking, in brands,
Speaker 1: in preferences and personalization. Right, because a new infrastructure is
Speaker 1: built that actually exposes all of that. Yeah, the coolest
Speaker 1: part about what could happen in black chain and media
Speaker 1: is that the web today is built off to ours
Speaker 1: right and decency and RELI right. So when you search
Speaker 1: content right, or you're in your timeline on Facebook or
Speaker 1: Twitter or Google, you search based on when something was published, right,
Speaker 1: or or um being able to sort it right based
Speaker 1: on published time, or you want something that's relevant. I
Speaker 1: I want to search for something and I want those
Speaker 1: results to get back verbatim the information that I have,
Speaker 1: and that is the way for the past ten to
Speaker 1: twenty years we have discovered and looked for content. Now
Speaker 1: what's happened is that we've actually changed the way creators
Speaker 1: create based on those results. So instead of when Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson passed away saying Michael Jackson passes away due to
Speaker 1: drug overdose, doctor investigated, we did, Michael Jackson dead right,
Speaker 1: because that's what people are going to search, and that
Speaker 1: actually takes the value out of why I read in
Speaker 1: author's work or creator's work, because now they're actually creating
Speaker 1: based on how they're valued and the results. So blockchain
Speaker 1: brings reputation. The third are so recency, relevancy, reputation. How
Speaker 1: do we put emphasis and how do we put information
Speaker 1: in quantifiable metrics against the work that goes into it,
Speaker 1: the effort that goes into it, and not just the results,
Speaker 1: not just how fast you published or when it was published,
Speaker 1: or how relevant you can of your headline or clickbait
Speaker 1: or all of these things that are driving us nuts,
Speaker 1: But how do we now put focus back on the value.
Speaker 1: So somebody who's who spent the entirety of her career
Speaker 1: evaluating and buying media and content and having to associate
Speaker 1: value or cost against um what that was being pitched
Speaker 1: as is worth, or having done homework to understand the
Speaker 1: market rates, etcetera. Well, you're basically alluding to is that
Speaker 1: blockchain is going to be able to democratize premium and
Speaker 1: equaling the playing field to say, consumer choice is what's
Speaker 1: going to drive premium and what they decide is valuable,
Speaker 1: whether it's person A or entity B, is up to them.
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, we have not defined premium right to
Speaker 1: alexis point, and premium is in the eyes of the
Speaker 1: buyer or the consumer or the beholder. And what's happened
Speaker 1: to date is that we've had a fox guarding the
Speaker 1: in house scenario. Right. We've had the New York Times
Speaker 1: and even Netflix and Spotify and all of these platforms
Speaker 1: say we're premium because of this, you should subscribe because
Speaker 1: of this, and now and we're seeing a media first
Speaker 1: bitatal shifts, right. We're seeing consumers say, I don't get it.
Speaker 1: I don't get why I'm paying for this. Why do
Speaker 1: I need to pay for all these subscriptions? There's too
Speaker 1: many media companies, right, Like it's not that there's not
Speaker 1: enough advertising dollars, there's too many publishers, right. So and
Speaker 1: now the same publishers right that that kind of infiltrated
Speaker 1: and took the ad revenue are now saying we're doing subscriptions.
Speaker 1: So now they're gonna take more of the subscription pome.
Speaker 1: Do you you wander what's gonna happen? There's not gonna be
Speaker 1: enough money, So like, we kind of need things to
Speaker 1: die in order for new things to exist. And what
Speaker 1: you're saying is true because the blockchain is a distributed ledger.
Speaker 1: It is a network driven by the network. It is
Speaker 1: consumer driven. It's not Fox guarding the henhouse. These are
Speaker 1: people that are gonna put value on things based on
Speaker 1: what they feel, right, is verifiable, interesting, Right. What they
Speaker 1: could then associate with that they think is good content
Speaker 1: that's relevant to them. So how can they curate their
Speaker 1: own experiences? How could they pay and give value to
Speaker 1: You know at Ben Thompson versus Washington Post, do authors
Speaker 1: and creators need to be with media companies or our
Speaker 1: media companies? Yeah, or our media company, And like I
Speaker 1: do believe media companies are valuable, but their value maybe
Speaker 1: we could get you distribution, right, we could get you
Speaker 1: pr and publicity. They're kind of like the labels right
Speaker 1: for music, Like you don't necessarily need them to be
Speaker 1: a creator, but they could help you. They're like an agency, right,
Speaker 1: And and you often forget like, oh, a publisher is
Speaker 1: a place where I could create content, right, and they're
Speaker 1: making me me? No, like you make you you and
Speaker 1: a publisher could help distribute you. But when you're ready
Speaker 1: to go out on your own, or when you want
Speaker 1: to go to a different label or agency or test
Speaker 1: new waters, you should go and there should be systems
Speaker 1: in place that allow you to enable that. To who
Speaker 1: are you working with? What media companies are you working
Speaker 1: with right now? So so we're speaking to a ton
Speaker 1: of media companies. To be completely honest, I'm really for
Speaker 1: gusing on the long tail talking to any brands. Some
Speaker 1: brands I have to be like, honest, we're a fifteen
Speaker 1: person team and fourteen or engineers, so it's literally me
Speaker 1: just running around and having these combos. We have a
Speaker 1: twenty person community um that's actually leveraging and using Poet,
Speaker 1: and about fifty large across all of our different systems
Speaker 1: that are putting information onto Poet. These are like screenwriters, independent,
Speaker 1: who are they like the majority of your digital artists
Speaker 1: their physical artists. Like I want to get these partnerships right.
Speaker 1: I want to get the big publishers and media companies
Speaker 1: that I have great relationships with that want to jump
Speaker 1: on board and be a part of it too. But
Speaker 1: I don't want to distract from this big mission because well,
Speaker 1: Laura described is exactly what we're looking to do, and
Speaker 1: that's a ship ton of work, and it's highly ambitious
Speaker 1: and a lot of education, right, and to take on
Speaker 1: a new brand or a new publisher that is going
Speaker 1: to look for what's our revenue strategy off of this
Speaker 1: thing in three months? We don't need that yet, that's right.
Speaker 1: But will you eventually need salespeople to sit on top
Speaker 1: of your consortium of ass as that are going out
Speaker 1: and saying like, here's the Poet top one this week
Speaker 1: and here's why, Like because then it transitions from ad
Speaker 1: teck like this Poet actually become a media company, right
Speaker 1: that the next question, Yeah, that's a good question. So
Speaker 1: so POD is the underlying technology with all of these things.
Speaker 1: So think of HTTP right where you type HTTPS into
Speaker 1: your browser, right, Like that is what pode is doing
Speaker 1: at a protocol level. How could people build reputation, how
Speaker 1: could they license content? Right? How could they build verifiable content?
Speaker 1: And then there's all these apps right that are going
Speaker 1: to be built on top. What we're really looking to
Speaker 1: do is invest in that protocol so that creators cannot
Speaker 1: just leverage it for their own I P but also
Speaker 1: start building tools and technologies on top of it. Like
Speaker 1: not to necessarily say like the app store, but to
Speaker 1: make an analogy like Apple as the device and Poet
Speaker 1: as the protocol, and what could be built on top
Speaker 1: of that is endless, Right, how do I build the
Speaker 1: hooks that make it so accessible and so obvious for
Speaker 1: them to do it that takes no additional efforts, So
Speaker 1: that we build this repository of creators like you that say,
Speaker 1: do you want to what? I love what poet is doing.
Speaker 1: I love what this person is building on Poet, But
Speaker 1: I have an idea that I'm gonna build on my
Speaker 1: own and commercialize on top of Poet that I'm taking
Speaker 1: for myself. Yeah. I mean the whole point is getting
Speaker 1: your content out there to an audience and getting it
Speaker 1: monetized as i P that is valuable. Who are poets competitors? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a So the cool part about blockchain right now
Speaker 1: is that because a lot of the projects are open source,
Speaker 1: you know, meaning that like you don't really own the
Speaker 1: information to the i P, anyone could use it. It's
Speaker 1: more collaborative than competitive. At this point. There's companies called
Speaker 1: uh steam steam it, which is kind of like a
Speaker 1: Reddit for blockchain, but there's not so much like a
Speaker 1: one to one type comparison. I think what we're fortunate
Speaker 1: in doing and where our investment lies is can we
Speaker 1: build something that could bread an ecosis them right, that
Speaker 1: could bread competitors and and and bred people to start
Speaker 1: thinking and building on top of it. What we could
Speaker 1: all agree on is that again not in I'm very
Speaker 1: good at non apples to apples comparisons, but hopefully they
Speaker 1: make sense. Um, it's like we're in a napster moment
Speaker 1: with creators and media. It's not necessarily that people want
Speaker 1: things for free. It's just that there's really no good
Speaker 1: systems for people to see the value to get verifiable,
Speaker 1: reputable content and to be able to know that their
Speaker 1: rewarding creators directly. When napsture was around, like the music
Speaker 1: and information you got wasn't great, right, Like songs were
Speaker 1: cut off, the quality was shitty. You, but you had
Speaker 1: no other option to get digital music right, that was
Speaker 1: the only platform until people saw what needed to be
Speaker 1: done in order to make this a real viable product.
Speaker 1: People wanted digital music, So how can you make it reputable?
Speaker 1: How can you make it verifiable? Right? How can you
Speaker 1: make sure that when you're purchasing something or streaming or
Speaker 1: licensing something, that it's the best quality and that it's
Speaker 1: men from the artists, and that it's the work that
Speaker 1: you paid for and it's paying the artists. Right. That's
Speaker 1: kind of where we are right now in media, which
Speaker 1: is kind of like people are like people are using
Speaker 1: ad blocker, or people don't want to subscribe, and it's like, no,
Speaker 1: it's not that people don't want to do these things. One,
Speaker 1: there's no better system, and too, we're really bad at
Speaker 1: conveying the value to these consumers. There are a lot
Speaker 1: of people who actually know that the situation from a
Speaker 1: consumer side is shitty. They're annoyed, but they don't actually
Speaker 1: write we don't think about it because it's just been
Speaker 1: this behavior, right, and we've been trained by institutions and
Speaker 1: by the media companies to have the behavior versus going
Speaker 1: into a more natural behavior. This is like when we
Speaker 1: talk to Charlie Melcher two years ago, right, and it
Speaker 1: was powerful and he was saying, you know, at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, and was so obvious, but we
Speaker 1: were like, oh, he's like, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: screens aren't natural. He's like, we should not have screens right.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, we should be
Speaker 1: living in like three six, should be living in the
Speaker 1: natural world. I mean, this is the same kind of
Speaker 1: right idea, is that there our behaviors that are natural
Speaker 1: to us that we've now kind of stopped right and
Speaker 1: build other things around that have diverted our behaviors to
Speaker 1: something else. So I don't think if you went to
Speaker 1: you know, a consumer and a USA Today subscriber, right,
Speaker 1: would they say this is a pain in the ass.
Speaker 1: They're like, no, I'm getting my news. Yeah. I mean
Speaker 1: I actually have a question for you guys, which is,
Speaker 1: we've seen the evolution of how we deliver content change
Speaker 1: so much, right, whether it's how you look at the
Speaker 1: formats right and from text to video to audio, or
Speaker 1: you look at the platforms like how it's distributed through
Speaker 1: a Facebook or a Twitter, Google or Snapchat. But the
Speaker 1: revenue models never change, right, And and we keep reconstructing
Speaker 1: these things. And in my mind, and like I'm curious
Speaker 1: your take, because you're both in this space, is don't
Speaker 1: we kind of have to blow the whole thing up, right, Like,
Speaker 1: like we haven't followed suits, so coming up with a
Speaker 1: new subscription bundle or a new ad unit not necessarily
Speaker 1: won't supplement or be sufficient enough to sustain what we're
Speaker 1: looking to do, but it's not going to make this
Speaker 1: industry better. Well you're basically creating is an opportunity for
Speaker 1: buyers to think about how they do direct deals with creators.
Speaker 1: I mean this is this is the I think one
Speaker 1: of the big points and something you and I had
Speaker 1: talked about Jared a while ago is like, this is DTC,
Speaker 1: but it's direct to creator, right, I mean that's the
Speaker 1: whole like that is that is it? And there and
Speaker 1: the thing is this gang philosophical for a second, But
Speaker 1: the thing is is I don't even know if you
Speaker 1: need media companies anymore. That's the right, That's the whole
Speaker 1: point is that does everyone become their own agent. What
Speaker 1: blows my mind on this, and I'd love to talk
Speaker 1: more about it, is that this gets down to i
Speaker 1: P at a very very micro level, and it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter for who and from who? Right, So meaning it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter who to create. There is whether it's a brand,
Speaker 1: a person, a community institution, that it is truly saying
Speaker 1: this i P is something that has been created, originated
Speaker 1: somewhere right from someone some buddies and it therefore exists
Speaker 1: in these forms because they have right, they have done X.
Speaker 1: That is mind blowing. And so I'm actually going to
Speaker 1: go back to something you said. You said there are
Speaker 1: too many publishers. Actually maybe there are too few publishers.
Speaker 1: Like if you think about too many versus too few,
Speaker 1: does this actually mean that the personalities that were driving
Speaker 1: publishers now transcend them? And so now it actually weeds
Speaker 1: out fluff pieces, etcetera. And now you sort of whatever
Speaker 1: is floats to the top just completely reconstructs the entire system.
Speaker 1: I think we're going to start to really understand the
Speaker 1: value of a media company and publisher, not in terms
Speaker 1: of creator, but as a media companies value through the
Speaker 1: lens of what consumed. You know what publishers deem it right,
Speaker 1: similar to the record labels, the artists on the labels,
Speaker 1: or who you go and read, or who you go
Speaker 1: or who you go and listen to, who you purchase,
Speaker 1: who you want to meet, who you want to see,
Speaker 1: and you understand what the labels bring to them. They
Speaker 1: bring marketing, they bring pop up, they bring merge, right,
Speaker 1: they have the connections, they get them on stage. That's
Speaker 1: what these media companies will be And to your point,
Speaker 1: I think, yes, there will be more creators, but there
Speaker 1: may not need to be all these mammoth at least
Speaker 1: new emerging media companies, if all they're really doing is
Speaker 1: providing a service, right, which is, we could grow your
Speaker 1: business and we could grow your exposure. If you want
Speaker 1: to go and do it indeed on your own, go
Speaker 1: for it, and there will be tools to do that.
Speaker 1: But if you want to come here and then we
Speaker 1: will help expose you. But you are right. The the
Speaker 1: the seesaw right is like completely tilting the other way
Speaker 1: where well it's impact and attention versus reach frequency and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, what you're saying is that scale
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if only a small percentage of what's in
Speaker 1: that scale is right. And scale fucked up this whole thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, like scale did two things right. Scale changed
Speaker 1: the way that we create content, right, Scale literally going
Speaker 1: back to like clickbait and like creators now creating content
Speaker 1: based off how fast they can publish or the time
Speaker 1: to publish, and how relevant they can make a headline
Speaker 1: or the content within it, and to in normalized content. Right,
Speaker 1: it kind of set a level that said news content
Speaker 1: is equal to lifestyle content is equal to video content
Speaker 1: is equal to a R Even though all of these
Speaker 1: things cost different, the investments are different, the time is different,
Speaker 1: yet the way they get paid on them because of
Speaker 1: scale different is the same. So what replaces the CPN?
Speaker 1: So I think, like platform look like I don't think
Speaker 1: that the platform model. And again you probably have better
Speaker 1: perspective on this than me. I think for brands and
Speaker 1: purchasing and if you're looking to like sell a product
Speaker 1: right or get a product in front of people, are
Speaker 1: used to the Nike Kaepernick campaign, Like the value of
Speaker 1: that is huge. So I think what we need to
Speaker 1: be doing again going act to like we're constantly repairing
Speaker 1: old models and trying to sustain and fix them. So
Speaker 1: what happens to the CPM, What happens to the ad?
Speaker 1: What happens to subscriptions, what happens to bundle, um, you
Speaker 1: see cable, O, T T all of these things? What
Speaker 1: if there's like new models or ideas where like you
Speaker 1: actually hold like your i P is your asset? What
Speaker 1: if people bid, like what a people bid on your
Speaker 1: i P? But then you could resell that, right, you're
Speaker 1: holding that that is an asset that you bought it
Speaker 1: a million dollars, that is now dollars, right, So like
Speaker 1: this economy could open up new things. That's not a
Speaker 1: new concept, right, That is not a fucking new concept.
Speaker 1: What's new about it is it's completely distributed and it's gone.
Speaker 1: It goes back to the individual, not just the individual
Speaker 1: to institution, and it's all consumer based. Most sales representatives
Speaker 1: will come in and they'll say, our platform reaches x
Speaker 1: million people per month. The conversation to what you're alluding
Speaker 1: to and correct me if this is wrong, is now
Speaker 1: saying our reputation amongst our consumers is x people value creator, A,
Speaker 1: B and C. At why that's why this is pretium, Yes, exactly,
Speaker 1: and it allows emerging creators to come about. Right. So
Speaker 1: going back to why blockchain of it being an immutable
Speaker 1: ledger of information and an incentive model is like people
Speaker 1: who have ideas that are in deep pockets of this
Speaker 1: earth that do not know where to send that information
Speaker 1: and do not have the connections, are somewhat scared to
Speaker 1: put their IP out there. Right. The beauty of an
Speaker 1: immutable ledger and blockchain is like, hey, look before I
Speaker 1: show this to the world, I'm gonna put it here
Speaker 1: so then I could prove that it was mine and
Speaker 1: that it was my idea, so that it cannot be
Speaker 1: ripped off, and I'm not scared to be discovered writing right,
Speaker 1: and then you open up this opportunity. So this idea
Speaker 1: of discover ability and authenticity and what's real and what's
Speaker 1: not real are all elements that could be built on
Speaker 1: top of the blockchain. And that's a great way to
Speaker 1: think about it, because it doesn't necessarily need to be
Speaker 1: a replacement, but if it's more efficient, if it opens
Speaker 1: up new opportunities, then that should be the goal of
Speaker 1: any emergency authorship its ownership. Like how does a brand
Speaker 1: start and say, hey, this is really interesting. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: throw a couple of dollars towards this. What does that
Speaker 1: look like? Great question? Short answer. The best part about
Speaker 1: blockchain is that it is so new and so overexposed
Speaker 1: that likely you do not need to spend too much
Speaker 1: money at all experimenting with it, and I strongly encourage
Speaker 1: a lot of companies to do so because some of
Speaker 1: the best technologists and thinkers are in this space right now,
Speaker 1: and that is without a doubt happening. Do I need
Speaker 1: engineers do I need data architects, do I need what?
Speaker 1: Do I need? I need my staff? So so a
Speaker 1: lot of it is education, right, Like what's actually amazing
Speaker 1: is medium has become this this Bible um, this like
Speaker 1: Bible upon Bible bomb, Bible of ways of thinking right,
Speaker 1: the methods behind blockchain, incentive systems, governance systems, creation systems.
Speaker 1: So a lot of it is just educating and learning.
Speaker 1: There's companies like ad Ledger that are together blockchain communities.
Speaker 1: That's the mad Hive crew UM and others like IBM
Speaker 1: and so forth that are really thinking about how best
Speaker 1: to use it. I think the way to think about
Speaker 1: it is too fold. One is have a curious mind.
Speaker 1: And we always said this at like Rebel Mouse, and
Speaker 1: I say it now is like, find that one person
Speaker 1: within your organ that is hungry, that wants to do
Speaker 1: something interesting and let them go. And you don't necessarily
Speaker 1: need to say we need a million dollar budget or
Speaker 1: we need three engineers to do this. A lot of
Speaker 1: the companies that are here, a lot of the code
Speaker 1: is open source, and they all have resources to work with.
Speaker 1: I could speak um personally right when it comes to
Speaker 1: poet that we are equipped right to work with publishers
Speaker 1: brands to onboard them and help educate them and help
Speaker 1: them learn about this project. Right, I think what the
Speaker 1: best companies in this space will do is build bridges,
Speaker 1: not motes. Right, we understand that it's new, um unlike
Speaker 1: what happened with a tech which is like, oh, you
Speaker 1: don't get it, forget it, or you need this because
Speaker 1: you don't get it. Where like, let us explain exactly
Speaker 1: why this is important and let us lead you over
Speaker 1: here and then prove to you why it's interesting. Tell
Speaker 1: me what I need. All you need is you? Okay,
Speaker 1: so do I need to All you need is you?
Speaker 1: Like you don't need to be an engineer. You just
Speaker 1: have to really think about what makes most sense when
Speaker 1: things become distributed, when they are not focused on one
Speaker 1: central point of failure, when everything could be open, and
Speaker 1: what makes most sense. That's contributor networks. That's a way
Speaker 1: of exposing information. That is a way of delivering information
Speaker 1: that could be anything, and it's particular based on your specifically.
Speaker 1: The other thing is and and I worked on this side.
Speaker 1: Don't think of a business case off the bat, like
Speaker 1: have fun experiment. Think of it like something on the
Speaker 1: side because there's so much that could come out of it.
Speaker 1: And it's the first inning that if you could be
Speaker 1: on the bleeding edge of thinking about these things and
Speaker 1: you can actually not just build and learn, but you
Speaker 1: can actually construct the way that it's going to work
Speaker 1: in the future. Line. So when you first started a poet,
Speaker 1: I called you and I said I want to put
Speaker 1: at Land down poet, and we talked about it. So
Speaker 1: now I am going to bring it back up because
Speaker 1: we have not done it. And let's say that this
Speaker 1: becomes a challenge at ANDIA to go on, get on, poet,
Speaker 1: get distributed. We'll bring our listeners with us and tell
Speaker 1: them like what happens and how we're doing and what
Speaker 1: we're learning and all that. It's an official partnership done.
Speaker 1: You heard it here first, Jared Dicker. So before you
Speaker 1: go kill buy d I y what would you kill?
Speaker 1: I think what I would kill as influencer networks? Okay? Good?
Speaker 1: What would you buy? Um? What would I buy? I
Speaker 1: would actually buy? Like right now and thinking about buying
Speaker 1: media companies that poets should be buying media companies and
Speaker 1: helping structure them in this sort of way of like
Speaker 1: focus on reputation, focus on creators, So I would buy maybe,
Speaker 1: let's say the Village Voice. What would I do myself?
Speaker 1: What everyone should be thinking about and doing themselves is
Speaker 1: kind of how best to redefine what their models and
Speaker 1: what their business and value is. I mean, I could say,
Speaker 1: and I'm biased, but what the Washington Post has done
Speaker 1: with ARC, they announced with Dallas Morning News they're powering.
Speaker 1: They'll soon be I mean, from what it looks like,
Speaker 1: they'll soon be powering like all of the local news
Speaker 1: and uh newspaper services that we know today and likely beyond.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's an excellent UM way of thinking,
Speaker 1: and it's an excellent proofpoint that if you invest in
Speaker 1: something and take certain risks, then new opportunities open up
Speaker 1: that aren't necessarily limiting and that are interoperable beyond kind
Speaker 1: of what you're doing. And those are like the most
Speaker 1: successful people write these entrepreneurs that think about um, question everything,
Speaker 1: and just are honest with themselves about where they are
Speaker 1: and where they should be. Well, if people want to
Speaker 1: reach you to learn more about the blockchain, where can
Speaker 1: they get in touch with you? Jared at Peo dot
Speaker 1: et or Twitter at Jared Dicker or any fish show,
Speaker 1: any Fish show. Um. Yes, like yeah, if anyone wants
Speaker 1: to engage or talk about fish or the Dead or
Speaker 1: Leon Russell or anything on Twitter, That's what I'm enjoyed
Speaker 1: talking about. Thank you, Jared, so big thanks to Jared Dicker,
Speaker 1: who is always blowing our minds. Lots to learn, lots
Speaker 1: to digest, lots really kind of think about and apply
Speaker 1: one thing. Like I would say in vite Jared into
Speaker 1: your company. Invite Jared whether media company, brand, startup, Invite
Speaker 1: Jared into your company to walk your teams through this
Speaker 1: whole new um way of thinking in this technology. I
Speaker 1: think that his whole point about, like we don't really
Speaker 1: have competitors because we're all kind of moving towards this
Speaker 1: you know, idea and technology of greater good and real
Speaker 1: trust and transparency, etcetera. He wants people to understand this
Speaker 1: and he wants to bring people on board, so call
Speaker 1: him so with that, big thanks to our producer Dana,
Speaker 1: Jacob Weisberg, Andy Bowers, Matt Turk, and all of our
Speaker 1: friends and family at Panoply. We'll be back in two
Speaker 1: weeks by Atlandia. Full disclosure, our opinions, our own