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Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are

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Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time.

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Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one.

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Speaker 1: I think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're

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Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you

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Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It

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Speaker 1: really is? What's up? I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Christin.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back at Landia soon to be Blockchain with returning

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Speaker 1: guests and fan favorite Jared Dicker, the new CEO of

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Speaker 1: blockchain company Poet. That's pet Et Jared who came from

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Speaker 1: the Washington Post. He led ad tech at the Washington

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Speaker 1: Post and the whole ad lab went over, took a

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Speaker 1: big leap, went over to the startup Poet, and he's

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Speaker 1: going to explain to us why blockchain matters, what it

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Speaker 1: really is, why it matters for media, and what is

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Speaker 1: going to happen to creators and the whole buying system

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Speaker 1: in media and content. We'll be right back and we're

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Speaker 1: back in the studio. I'm Jared Dicker taking over. This

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Speaker 1: is at Landia, and here we go. Band is back together.

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Speaker 1: Jared Dicker, CEO of poet po dot et. Yeah, for

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Speaker 1: the past six months, I have transitioned into the blockchain,

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Speaker 1: which has been um it is it kind of is

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Speaker 1: you know, Um, every time I switched a job, you

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Speaker 1: look back and it's like, Wow, I can't believe I've

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Speaker 1: been here for so long. But uh, in the blockchain

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Speaker 1: space and apt poet, yes, I definitely feel like I've

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Speaker 1: been here for this long because it is a lot

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Speaker 1: of work and it's very fast, and I'm sure as

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Speaker 1: you guys know, um through following the trades and conversations

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Speaker 1: that you've had, it's it's the thing to talk about, right.

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Speaker 1: You have cannabis, you have blockchain, and then you have

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Speaker 1: AI mL, like yeah, artificial intelligence, machine learning. But I

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Speaker 1: feel like we're getting into like another winter of AI

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Speaker 1: and m L, and we're probably going into a winter

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Speaker 1: of blockchain because people don't really think it's real and

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Speaker 1: a lot in a lot of cases, there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of mainstream folks in advertising, marketing and media who

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Speaker 1: maybe are enamored with the idea and the concept of blockchain,

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Speaker 1: but they don't see the reality. So uh, you're right, um,

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Speaker 1: when you say that blockchain is kind of used as

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Speaker 1: as a marketing tool right now. I'd equate it to

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Speaker 1: uh these strategies behind at tech, where you have something

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Speaker 1: that's somewhat simple, and when you break it down and

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Speaker 1: understand what it does, it's it's very simple, but the

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Speaker 1: people that control it are purposely making it confusing to

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Speaker 1: keep others out. And that's kind of what you're seeing

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Speaker 1: with blockchain, particularly particularly in the media space, right um uh.

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Speaker 1: Note that this has been around for you know, almost

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Speaker 1: a decade, and that there's been a lot of work

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Speaker 1: and focus going into it, but as it's impacted media,

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Speaker 1: you know, especially u C blockchain in the ad space

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Speaker 1: and what I could do for advertising and transparency and

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Speaker 1: trust less systems and all of these things, a lot

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Speaker 1: of that is absolutely just lip service. So blockchain is

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Speaker 1: just a distributed ledger. So the main differences between that

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Speaker 1: and how people use a database today is that it's

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Speaker 1: just controlled by a consensus. So basically, if we were

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Speaker 1: having this conversation on the blockchain, all of the information

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Speaker 1: is recorded, and Laura can change what she said, and

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Speaker 1: Alexa can't change what she said, and I can't change

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Speaker 1: what I said without a group of us you know,

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Speaker 1: agreeing collectively on what should be changed and what should

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Speaker 1: not be changed. And that's really it. So when people say, right, um,

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Speaker 1: the blockchain, like we are using the blockchain to solve

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Speaker 1: for this um, they're most likely able to use a

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Speaker 1: database to have that solution be better than what they

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Speaker 1: do today. And that's like biggest um kind of argument

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Speaker 1: that's coming from people, whether they're pro or anti blockchain,

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Speaker 1: particularly in the media space, is kind of like, well,

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Speaker 1: why do you need a blockchain? Now? The cool part

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Speaker 1: about blockchain is that how can you best leverage this

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Speaker 1: distributed ledger and put incentivized systems against it. Early huff

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Speaker 1: Post days, we did huff Post badging and comment moderation

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Speaker 1: where we were self governing the comment moderation system at

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Speaker 1: the huffing in Post against the technology that we call Julia.

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Speaker 1: But we were basically able to incentivize people within our

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Speaker 1: community to find the best comments, curate the best conversations,

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Speaker 1: highlight that content, give them with intrinsic rewards, so that

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Speaker 1: they were kind of doing the job that the huffing

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Speaker 1: Impost should be doing, but it was controlled empowered by

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Speaker 1: the network. That's the coolest part about what blockchain is

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Speaker 1: today and what the best technologies will enable it to do.

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Speaker 1: It's not just about this distributed ledger and being able

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Speaker 1: to categorize and have information that is immutable and cannot

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Speaker 1: be changed. It's about how you can incentivize people to

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Speaker 1: do things again that information and against that data. So

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Speaker 1: other than it being a ledger. When you talk about

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Speaker 1: media solutions, right, one of the words that you just

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Speaker 1: said around some of the solves that brands are thinking

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Speaker 1: about is transparency. Right. So obviously if this is an

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Speaker 1: uneditable ledger, brands are then able to go in and

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Speaker 1: identify what we often in this space, find a new technology,

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Speaker 1: get excited about it, and just slap it on things, right,

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Speaker 1: and and you all know this best. But um, that's

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Speaker 1: exactly what's happening again here with the blockchain, um, which

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Speaker 1: is a huge mistake. What we really need when we're

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Speaker 1: thinking about these technologies and the opportunities is how can

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Speaker 1: we actually create something new, right, not back into existing

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Speaker 1: systems where these technologies didn't exist when these problems first

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Speaker 1: came about and shoving them in there to try to

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Speaker 1: put a band aid on it, but actually create something

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Speaker 1: new and create new behaviors. So identifying things like transparency,

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Speaker 1: How can we know where our money is being spent?

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Speaker 1: How can we best engage users? UM and his blockchain

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Speaker 1: is solution for that. How we be better with transacting

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Speaker 1: right with influencers and being able to identify influencers based

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Speaker 1: on the content they've created and their reputation and things that. Again,

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Speaker 1: a ledger and an incentivized system can help bring forward

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Speaker 1: right more information behind that to do so, the biggest

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Speaker 1: one today, which is what we're focusing on a poet

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Speaker 1: and a lot of others in the space, is kind

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Speaker 1: of like, how can you provide information behind what you're

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Speaker 1: about to consume? So UM being able to expose more

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Speaker 1: information so that people can make better decisions. So when

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Speaker 1: you drink a can of coke or you smoke a cigarette, Um,

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Speaker 1: you're free to do whatever you want, but there is

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Speaker 1: more information that tells you're like, these are the ingredients

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Speaker 1: behind what you're about to put into your body. And

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Speaker 1: yes it's FDA regulated, but it helps you make better

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Speaker 1: informed decisions towards what makes most sense for you. Every

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Speaker 1: single piece of information, whether it's content, whether it's a

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Speaker 1: transaction like bitcoin, UM it's a public exposed ledger of

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Speaker 1: information that everyone could see, right, and then the beauty

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Speaker 1: of that, which is what we're saying with the incentive systems,

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Speaker 1: is like what can we do to spark behaviors against that?

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Speaker 1: So if we are looking for who an author is,

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Speaker 1: or if something has been fact checked, or how has

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Speaker 1: something been sourced or where has your money gone, you

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Speaker 1: could have the Ledger and have that information and then

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Speaker 1: give incentive systems for people to make things verifiable, like

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Speaker 1: be able to say, is this actually Laura Crerenti who

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Speaker 1: wrote this? Well, yes it is, because we found that

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Speaker 1: this is the source of the article right through where

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Speaker 1: it was originally published, and that claim that Laura is

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Speaker 1: the author is now verifiable. Um, but someone may say

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Speaker 1: I created this article, Um, my name is Laura Crerenti,

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Speaker 1: and then you find out that it was actually written

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Speaker 1: five years ago by Alexa Kristen. If you do choose

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Speaker 1: to read breitemart Right or huffing In Post or The

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Speaker 1: Daily Caller, you can so choose to. But this is

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Speaker 1: a technology and opportunity for you to learn more information

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Speaker 1: about what you're about to consume. That this source of

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Speaker 1: this content may not be verified, right, Like we think

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Speaker 1: of being able to label information like this is sponsored

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Speaker 1: and this isn't sponsored but that, but it's not binary.

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Speaker 1: It's not up to the publishers anymore. Right, The conversation

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Speaker 1: with publishers today is we're valuable and we're premium, and

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Speaker 1: yes it's premium, and I don't subscribe to like that

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Speaker 1: whole premium content industry. It is, but the industry, right

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Speaker 1: has a premium content basically stacked right, right, a charge

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Speaker 1: against that, right, And it's proving my point exactly what

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Speaker 1: you said, because we say premium, but that's an insider

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Speaker 1: definition that is not conveyed at all to the consumers.

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Speaker 1: That's like hasn't really been able to be quantified in

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Speaker 1: any particularly thank you. So that is what we're building.

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Speaker 1: We want to be able to convey the value behind

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Speaker 1: the creator's work and what that really means. Right. We

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Speaker 1: constantly emphasize um things that happen in the results, right,

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Speaker 1: like how many page views do you have, how many

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Speaker 1: UH followers you have, how many engagement And that is

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with the reason why you went and

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Speaker 1: engaged with that musician or publisher or creator in the

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Speaker 1: first place, because we have no way of identifying or

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Speaker 1: verifying that information, right, and being able to explose it.

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Speaker 1: So the last thing I'll say on this rant is

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Speaker 1: the other notion is why are publishers premium to Alexis point? Like,

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Speaker 1: what is premium? And his premium is stack in the system,

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Speaker 1: And why is the Washington Post content more premium than

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Speaker 1: Ben Thompson Stratechory's right, it was operating on his own

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Speaker 1: and that's because we don't have a way to quantify

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Speaker 1: it or to show it that you don't have a

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Speaker 1: way to verify it by the buyer. That's the point here, right,

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Speaker 1: And I think that's for me at least, that's what's

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Speaker 1: exciting about blockchain. Blockchain for me is at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, we're putting the hands of the verification

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Speaker 1: and the validation into a public, transparent setting for the

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Speaker 1: community to decide, right, And that's the point. And a

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Speaker 1: lot of the project explain the gray, right, Like we

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Speaker 1: live in a black and white world where where you're

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Speaker 1: either on one side or the other, and no one

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Speaker 1: is focusing on the gray. So so today we're in

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Speaker 1: a world where there's fake news, right, and what's real

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Speaker 1: and what's fake and what's truth and what's false. However,

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Speaker 1: while I believe that everything should be objective. We live

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Speaker 1: in a world that's extremely subjective. You're talking about very

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Speaker 1: hard objective things about verification, transparency, data, right, You're talking

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Speaker 1: about data, information backed shit. But you're also talking about

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Speaker 1: major movements in society and culture in thinking, in brands,

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Speaker 1: in preferences and personalization. Right, because a new infrastructure is

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Speaker 1: built that actually exposes all of that. Yeah, the coolest

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Speaker 1: part about what could happen in black chain and media

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Speaker 1: is that the web today is built off to ours

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Speaker 1: right and decency and RELI right. So when you search

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Speaker 1: content right, or you're in your timeline on Facebook or

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Speaker 1: Twitter or Google, you search based on when something was published, right,

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Speaker 1: or or um being able to sort it right based

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Speaker 1: on published time, or you want something that's relevant. I

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Speaker 1: I want to search for something and I want those

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Speaker 1: results to get back verbatim the information that I have,

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Speaker 1: and that is the way for the past ten to

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Speaker 1: twenty years we have discovered and looked for content. Now

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Speaker 1: what's happened is that we've actually changed the way creators

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Speaker 1: create based on those results. So instead of when Michael

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Speaker 1: Jackson passed away saying Michael Jackson passes away due to

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Speaker 1: drug overdose, doctor investigated, we did, Michael Jackson dead right,

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Speaker 1: because that's what people are going to search, and that

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Speaker 1: actually takes the value out of why I read in

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Speaker 1: author's work or creator's work, because now they're actually creating

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Speaker 1: based on how they're valued and the results. So blockchain

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Speaker 1: brings reputation. The third are so recency, relevancy, reputation. How

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Speaker 1: do we put emphasis and how do we put information

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Speaker 1: in quantifiable metrics against the work that goes into it,

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Speaker 1: the effort that goes into it, and not just the results,

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Speaker 1: not just how fast you published or when it was published,

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Speaker 1: or how relevant you can of your headline or clickbait

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Speaker 1: or all of these things that are driving us nuts,

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Speaker 1: But how do we now put focus back on the value.

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Speaker 1: So somebody who's who spent the entirety of her career

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Speaker 1: evaluating and buying media and content and having to associate

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Speaker 1: value or cost against um what that was being pitched

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Speaker 1: as is worth, or having done homework to understand the

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Speaker 1: market rates, etcetera. Well, you're basically alluding to is that

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Speaker 1: blockchain is going to be able to democratize premium and

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Speaker 1: equaling the playing field to say, consumer choice is what's

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Speaker 1: going to drive premium and what they decide is valuable,

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Speaker 1: whether it's person A or entity B, is up to them.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, we have not defined premium right to

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Speaker 1: alexis point, and premium is in the eyes of the

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Speaker 1: buyer or the consumer or the beholder. And what's happened

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Speaker 1: to date is that we've had a fox guarding the

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Speaker 1: in house scenario. Right. We've had the New York Times

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Speaker 1: and even Netflix and Spotify and all of these platforms

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Speaker 1: say we're premium because of this, you should subscribe because

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Speaker 1: of this, and now and we're seeing a media first

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Speaker 1: bitatal shifts, right. We're seeing consumers say, I don't get it.

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Speaker 1: I don't get why I'm paying for this. Why do

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Speaker 1: I need to pay for all these subscriptions? There's too

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Speaker 1: many media companies, right, Like it's not that there's not

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Speaker 1: enough advertising dollars, there's too many publishers, right. So and

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Speaker 1: now the same publishers right that that kind of infiltrated

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Speaker 1: and took the ad revenue are now saying we're doing subscriptions.

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Speaker 1: So now they're gonna take more of the subscription pome.

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Speaker 1: Do you you wander what's gonna happen? There's not gonna be

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Speaker 1: enough money, So like, we kind of need things to

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Speaker 1: die in order for new things to exist. And what

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Speaker 1: you're saying is true because the blockchain is a distributed ledger.

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Speaker 1: It is a network driven by the network. It is

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Speaker 1: consumer driven. It's not Fox guarding the henhouse. These are

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Speaker 1: people that are gonna put value on things based on

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Speaker 1: what they feel, right, is verifiable, interesting, Right. What they

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Speaker 1: could then associate with that they think is good content

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Speaker 1: that's relevant to them. So how can they curate their

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Speaker 1: own experiences? How could they pay and give value to

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Speaker 1: You know at Ben Thompson versus Washington Post, do authors

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Speaker 1: and creators need to be with media companies or our

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Speaker 1: media companies? Yeah, or our media company, And like I

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Speaker 1: do believe media companies are valuable, but their value maybe

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Speaker 1: we could get you distribution, right, we could get you

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Speaker 1: pr and publicity. They're kind of like the labels right

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Speaker 1: for music, Like you don't necessarily need them to be

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Speaker 1: a creator, but they could help you. They're like an agency, right,

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Speaker 1: And and you often forget like, oh, a publisher is

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Speaker 1: a place where I could create content, right, and they're

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Speaker 1: making me me? No, like you make you you and

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Speaker 1: a publisher could help distribute you. But when you're ready

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Speaker 1: to go out on your own, or when you want

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Speaker 1: to go to a different label or agency or test

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Speaker 1: new waters, you should go and there should be systems

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Speaker 1: in place that allow you to enable that. To who

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Speaker 1: are you working with? What media companies are you working

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Speaker 1: with right now? So so we're speaking to a ton

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Speaker 1: of media companies. To be completely honest, I'm really for

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Speaker 1: gusing on the long tail talking to any brands. Some

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Speaker 1: brands I have to be like, honest, we're a fifteen

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Speaker 1: person team and fourteen or engineers, so it's literally me

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Speaker 1: just running around and having these combos. We have a

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Speaker 1: twenty person community um that's actually leveraging and using Poet,

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Speaker 1: and about fifty large across all of our different systems

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Speaker 1: that are putting information onto Poet. These are like screenwriters, independent,

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Speaker 1: who are they like the majority of your digital artists

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Speaker 1: their physical artists. Like I want to get these partnerships right.

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Speaker 1: I want to get the big publishers and media companies

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Speaker 1: that I have great relationships with that want to jump

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Speaker 1: on board and be a part of it too. But

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Speaker 1: I don't want to distract from this big mission because well,

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Speaker 1: Laura described is exactly what we're looking to do, and

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Speaker 1: that's a ship ton of work, and it's highly ambitious

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Speaker 1: and a lot of education, right, and to take on

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Speaker 1: a new brand or a new publisher that is going

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Speaker 1: to look for what's our revenue strategy off of this

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Speaker 1: thing in three months? We don't need that yet, that's right.

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Speaker 1: But will you eventually need salespeople to sit on top

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Speaker 1: of your consortium of ass as that are going out

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Speaker 1: and saying like, here's the Poet top one this week

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Speaker 1: and here's why, Like because then it transitions from ad

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Speaker 1: teck like this Poet actually become a media company, right

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Speaker 1: that the next question, Yeah, that's a good question. So

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Speaker 1: so POD is the underlying technology with all of these things.

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Speaker 1: So think of HTTP right where you type HTTPS into

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Speaker 1: your browser, right, Like that is what pode is doing

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Speaker 1: at a protocol level. How could people build reputation, how

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Speaker 1: could they license content? Right? How could they build verifiable content?

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Speaker 1: And then there's all these apps right that are going

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Speaker 1: to be built on top. What we're really looking to

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Speaker 1: do is invest in that protocol so that creators cannot

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Speaker 1: just leverage it for their own I P but also

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Speaker 1: start building tools and technologies on top of it. Like

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Speaker 1: not to necessarily say like the app store, but to

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Speaker 1: make an analogy like Apple as the device and Poet

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Speaker 1: as the protocol, and what could be built on top

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Speaker 1: of that is endless, Right, how do I build the

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Speaker 1: hooks that make it so accessible and so obvious for

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Speaker 1: them to do it that takes no additional efforts, So

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Speaker 1: that we build this repository of creators like you that say,

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Speaker 1: do you want to what? I love what poet is doing.

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Speaker 1: I love what this person is building on Poet, But

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Speaker 1: I have an idea that I'm gonna build on my

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Speaker 1: own and commercialize on top of Poet that I'm taking

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Speaker 1: for myself. Yeah. I mean the whole point is getting

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Speaker 1: your content out there to an audience and getting it

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Speaker 1: monetized as i P that is valuable. Who are poets competitors? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a So the cool part about blockchain right now

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Speaker 1: is that because a lot of the projects are open source,

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Speaker 1: you know, meaning that like you don't really own the

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Speaker 1: information to the i P, anyone could use it. It's

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Speaker 1: more collaborative than competitive. At this point. There's companies called

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Speaker 1: uh steam steam it, which is kind of like a

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Speaker 1: Reddit for blockchain, but there's not so much like a

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Speaker 1: one to one type comparison. I think what we're fortunate

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Speaker 1: in doing and where our investment lies is can we

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Speaker 1: build something that could bread an ecosis them right, that

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Speaker 1: could bread competitors and and and bred people to start

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Speaker 1: thinking and building on top of it. What we could

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Speaker 1: all agree on is that again not in I'm very

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Speaker 1: good at non apples to apples comparisons, but hopefully they

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Speaker 1: make sense. Um, it's like we're in a napster moment

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Speaker 1: with creators and media. It's not necessarily that people want

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Speaker 1: things for free. It's just that there's really no good

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Speaker 1: systems for people to see the value to get verifiable,

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Speaker 1: reputable content and to be able to know that their

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Speaker 1: rewarding creators directly. When napsture was around, like the music

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Speaker 1: and information you got wasn't great, right, Like songs were

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Speaker 1: cut off, the quality was shitty. You, but you had

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Speaker 1: no other option to get digital music right, that was

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Speaker 1: the only platform until people saw what needed to be

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Speaker 1: done in order to make this a real viable product.

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Speaker 1: People wanted digital music, So how can you make it reputable?

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Speaker 1: How can you make it verifiable? Right? How can you

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Speaker 1: make sure that when you're purchasing something or streaming or

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Speaker 1: licensing something, that it's the best quality and that it's

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Speaker 1: men from the artists, and that it's the work that

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Speaker 1: you paid for and it's paying the artists. Right. That's

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Speaker 1: kind of where we are right now in media, which

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Speaker 1: is kind of like people are like people are using

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Speaker 1: ad blocker, or people don't want to subscribe, and it's like, no,

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Speaker 1: it's not that people don't want to do these things. One,

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Speaker 1: there's no better system, and too, we're really bad at

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Speaker 1: conveying the value to these consumers. There are a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who actually know that the situation from a

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Speaker 1: consumer side is shitty. They're annoyed, but they don't actually

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Speaker 1: write we don't think about it because it's just been

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Speaker 1: this behavior, right, and we've been trained by institutions and

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Speaker 1: by the media companies to have the behavior versus going

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Speaker 1: into a more natural behavior. This is like when we

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Speaker 1: talk to Charlie Melcher two years ago, right, and it

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Speaker 1: was powerful and he was saying, you know, at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, and was so obvious, but we

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Speaker 1: were like, oh, he's like, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: screens aren't natural. He's like, we should not have screens right.

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Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, we should be

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Speaker 1: living in like three six, should be living in the

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Speaker 1: natural world. I mean, this is the same kind of

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Speaker 1: right idea, is that there our behaviors that are natural

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Speaker 1: to us that we've now kind of stopped right and

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Speaker 1: build other things around that have diverted our behaviors to

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Speaker 1: something else. So I don't think if you went to

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Speaker 1: you know, a consumer and a USA Today subscriber, right,

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Speaker 1: would they say this is a pain in the ass.

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Speaker 1: They're like, no, I'm getting my news. Yeah. I mean

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Speaker 1: I actually have a question for you guys, which is,

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Speaker 1: we've seen the evolution of how we deliver content change

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Speaker 1: so much, right, whether it's how you look at the

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Speaker 1: formats right and from text to video to audio, or

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Speaker 1: you look at the platforms like how it's distributed through

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Speaker 1: a Facebook or a Twitter, Google or Snapchat. But the

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Speaker 1: revenue models never change, right, And and we keep reconstructing

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Speaker 1: these things. And in my mind, and like I'm curious

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Speaker 1: your take, because you're both in this space, is don't

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Speaker 1: we kind of have to blow the whole thing up, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: like we haven't followed suits, so coming up with a

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Speaker 1: new subscription bundle or a new ad unit not necessarily

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Speaker 1: won't supplement or be sufficient enough to sustain what we're

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Speaker 1: looking to do, but it's not going to make this

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Speaker 1: industry better. Well you're basically creating is an opportunity for

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Speaker 1: buyers to think about how they do direct deals with creators.

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Speaker 1: I mean this is this is the I think one

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Speaker 1: of the big points and something you and I had

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Speaker 1: talked about Jared a while ago is like, this is DTC,

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Speaker 1: but it's direct to creator, right, I mean that's the

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Speaker 1: whole like that is that is it? And there and

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Speaker 1: the thing is this gang philosophical for a second, But

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Speaker 1: the thing is is I don't even know if you

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Speaker 1: need media companies anymore. That's the right, That's the whole

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Speaker 1: point is that does everyone become their own agent. What

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Speaker 1: blows my mind on this, and I'd love to talk

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Speaker 1: more about it, is that this gets down to i

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Speaker 1: P at a very very micro level, and it doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter for who and from who? Right, So meaning it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter who to create. There is whether it's a brand,

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Speaker 1: a person, a community institution, that it is truly saying

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Speaker 1: this i P is something that has been created, originated

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Speaker 1: somewhere right from someone some buddies and it therefore exists

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Speaker 1: in these forms because they have right, they have done X.

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Speaker 1: That is mind blowing. And so I'm actually going to

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Speaker 1: go back to something you said. You said there are

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Speaker 1: too many publishers. Actually maybe there are too few publishers.

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Speaker 1: Like if you think about too many versus too few,

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Speaker 1: does this actually mean that the personalities that were driving

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Speaker 1: publishers now transcend them? And so now it actually weeds

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Speaker 1: out fluff pieces, etcetera. And now you sort of whatever

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Speaker 1: is floats to the top just completely reconstructs the entire system.

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Speaker 1: I think we're going to start to really understand the

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Speaker 1: value of a media company and publisher, not in terms

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Speaker 1: of creator, but as a media companies value through the

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Speaker 1: lens of what consumed. You know what publishers deem it right,

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Speaker 1: similar to the record labels, the artists on the labels,

428
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: or who you go and read, or who you go

429
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: or who you go and listen to, who you purchase,

430
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 1: who you want to meet, who you want to see,

431
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,479
Speaker 1: and you understand what the labels bring to them. They

432
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 1: bring marketing, they bring pop up, they bring merge, right,

433
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 1: they have the connections, they get them on stage. That's

434
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 1: what these media companies will be And to your point,

435
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: I think, yes, there will be more creators, but there

436
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 1: may not need to be all these mammoth at least

437
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 1: new emerging media companies, if all they're really doing is

438
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,959
Speaker 1: providing a service, right, which is, we could grow your

439
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 1: business and we could grow your exposure. If you want

440
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,439
Speaker 1: to go and do it indeed on your own, go

441
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: for it, and there will be tools to do that.

442
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 1: But if you want to come here and then we

443
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 1: will help expose you. But you are right. The the

444
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: the seesaw right is like completely tilting the other way

445
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: where well it's impact and attention versus reach frequency and

446
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, what you're saying is that scale

447
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if only a small percentage of what's in

448
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: that scale is right. And scale fucked up this whole thing.

449
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: I mean, like scale did two things right. Scale changed

450
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 1: the way that we create content, right, Scale literally going

451
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 1: back to like clickbait and like creators now creating content

452
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: based off how fast they can publish or the time

453
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,719
Speaker 1: to publish, and how relevant they can make a headline

454
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: or the content within it, and to in normalized content. Right,

455
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: it kind of set a level that said news content

456
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: is equal to lifestyle content is equal to video content

457
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 1: is equal to a R Even though all of these

458
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: things cost different, the investments are different, the time is different,

459
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 1: yet the way they get paid on them because of

460
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 1: scale different is the same. So what replaces the CPN?

461
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: So I think, like platform look like I don't think

462
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: that the platform model. And again you probably have better

463
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: perspective on this than me. I think for brands and

464
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: purchasing and if you're looking to like sell a product

465
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 1: right or get a product in front of people, are

466
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: used to the Nike Kaepernick campaign, Like the value of

467
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: that is huge. So I think what we need to

468
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: be doing again going act to like we're constantly repairing

469
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 1: old models and trying to sustain and fix them. So

470
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: what happens to the CPM, What happens to the ad?

471
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: What happens to subscriptions, what happens to bundle, um, you

472
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 1: see cable, O, T T all of these things? What

473
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 1: if there's like new models or ideas where like you

474
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: actually hold like your i P is your asset? What

475
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,239
Speaker 1: if people bid, like what a people bid on your

476
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: i P? But then you could resell that, right, you're

477
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: holding that that is an asset that you bought it

478
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 1: a million dollars, that is now dollars, right, So like

479
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 1: this economy could open up new things. That's not a

480
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: new concept, right, That is not a fucking new concept.

481
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: What's new about it is it's completely distributed and it's gone.

482
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: It goes back to the individual, not just the individual

483
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 1: to institution, and it's all consumer based. Most sales representatives

484
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: will come in and they'll say, our platform reaches x

485
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: million people per month. The conversation to what you're alluding

486
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: to and correct me if this is wrong, is now

487
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: saying our reputation amongst our consumers is x people value creator, A,

488
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: B and C. At why that's why this is pretium, Yes, exactly,

489
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 1: and it allows emerging creators to come about. Right. So

490
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: going back to why blockchain of it being an immutable

491
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 1: ledger of information and an incentive model is like people

492
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: who have ideas that are in deep pockets of this

493
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: earth that do not know where to send that information

494
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 1: and do not have the connections, are somewhat scared to

495
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 1: put their IP out there. Right. The beauty of an

496
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: immutable ledger and blockchain is like, hey, look before I

497
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: show this to the world, I'm gonna put it here

498
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: so then I could prove that it was mine and

499
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: that it was my idea, so that it cannot be

500
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,479
Speaker 1: ripped off, and I'm not scared to be discovered writing right,

501
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: and then you open up this opportunity. So this idea

502
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: of discover ability and authenticity and what's real and what's

503
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 1: not real are all elements that could be built on

504
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: top of the blockchain. And that's a great way to

505
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: think about it, because it doesn't necessarily need to be

506
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: a replacement, but if it's more efficient, if it opens

507
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: up new opportunities, then that should be the goal of

508
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: any emergency authorship its ownership. Like how does a brand

509
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 1: start and say, hey, this is really interesting. I'm gonna

510
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: throw a couple of dollars towards this. What does that

511
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: look like? Great question? Short answer. The best part about

512
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 1: blockchain is that it is so new and so overexposed

513
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: that likely you do not need to spend too much

514
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: money at all experimenting with it, and I strongly encourage

515
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: a lot of companies to do so because some of

516
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,479
Speaker 1: the best technologists and thinkers are in this space right now,

517
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: and that is without a doubt happening. Do I need

518
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 1: engineers do I need data architects, do I need what?

519
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: Do I need? I need my staff? So so a

520
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 1: lot of it is education, right, Like what's actually amazing

521
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: is medium has become this this Bible um, this like

522
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: Bible upon Bible bomb, Bible of ways of thinking right,

523
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 1: the methods behind blockchain, incentive systems, governance systems, creation systems.

524
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: So a lot of it is just educating and learning.

525
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: There's companies like ad Ledger that are together blockchain communities.

526
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: That's the mad Hive crew UM and others like IBM

527
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: and so forth that are really thinking about how best

528
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: to use it. I think the way to think about

529
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 1: it is too fold. One is have a curious mind.

530
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: And we always said this at like Rebel Mouse, and

531
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 1: I say it now is like, find that one person

532
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: within your organ that is hungry, that wants to do

533
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: something interesting and let them go. And you don't necessarily

534
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: need to say we need a million dollar budget or

535
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: we need three engineers to do this. A lot of

536
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 1: the companies that are here, a lot of the code

537
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: is open source, and they all have resources to work with.

538
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: I could speak um personally right when it comes to

539
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: poet that we are equipped right to work with publishers

540
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: brands to onboard them and help educate them and help

541
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: them learn about this project. Right, I think what the

542
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: best companies in this space will do is build bridges,

543
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: not motes. Right, we understand that it's new, um unlike

544
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: what happened with a tech which is like, oh, you

545
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: don't get it, forget it, or you need this because

546
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: you don't get it. Where like, let us explain exactly

547
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: why this is important and let us lead you over

548
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: here and then prove to you why it's interesting. Tell

549
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: me what I need. All you need is you? Okay,

550
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: so do I need to All you need is you?

551
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: Like you don't need to be an engineer. You just

552
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: have to really think about what makes most sense when

553
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: things become distributed, when they are not focused on one

554
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: central point of failure, when everything could be open, and

555
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: what makes most sense. That's contributor networks. That's a way

556
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: of exposing information. That is a way of delivering information

557
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: that could be anything, and it's particular based on your specifically.

558
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: The other thing is and and I worked on this side.

559
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: Don't think of a business case off the bat, like

560
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: have fun experiment. Think of it like something on the

561
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: side because there's so much that could come out of it.

562
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: And it's the first inning that if you could be

563
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: on the bleeding edge of thinking about these things and

564
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: you can actually not just build and learn, but you

565
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: can actually construct the way that it's going to work

566
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: in the future. Line. So when you first started a poet,

567
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: I called you and I said I want to put

568
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: at Land down poet, and we talked about it. So

569
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: now I am going to bring it back up because

570
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: we have not done it. And let's say that this

571
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: becomes a challenge at ANDIA to go on, get on, poet,

572
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: get distributed. We'll bring our listeners with us and tell

573
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: them like what happens and how we're doing and what

574
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: we're learning and all that. It's an official partnership done.

575
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: You heard it here first, Jared Dicker. So before you

576
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: go kill buy d I y what would you kill?

577
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: I think what I would kill as influencer networks? Okay? Good?

578
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: What would you buy? Um? What would I buy? I

579
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: would actually buy? Like right now and thinking about buying

580
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: media companies that poets should be buying media companies and

581
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: helping structure them in this sort of way of like

582
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: focus on reputation, focus on creators, So I would buy maybe,

583
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: let's say the Village Voice. What would I do myself?

584
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: What everyone should be thinking about and doing themselves is

585
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,719
Speaker 1: kind of how best to redefine what their models and

586
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: what their business and value is. I mean, I could say,

587
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: and I'm biased, but what the Washington Post has done

588
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: with ARC, they announced with Dallas Morning News they're powering.

589
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: They'll soon be I mean, from what it looks like,

590
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: they'll soon be powering like all of the local news

591
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: and uh newspaper services that we know today and likely beyond.

592
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: And I think that that's an excellent UM way of thinking,

593
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: and it's an excellent proofpoint that if you invest in

594
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: something and take certain risks, then new opportunities open up

595
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: that aren't necessarily limiting and that are interoperable beyond kind

596
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: of what you're doing. And those are like the most

597
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: successful people write these entrepreneurs that think about um, question everything,

598
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: and just are honest with themselves about where they are

599
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: and where they should be. Well, if people want to

600
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: reach you to learn more about the blockchain, where can

601
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: they get in touch with you? Jared at Peo dot

602
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: et or Twitter at Jared Dicker or any fish show,

603
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: any Fish show. Um. Yes, like yeah, if anyone wants

604
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: to engage or talk about fish or the Dead or

605
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: Leon Russell or anything on Twitter, That's what I'm enjoyed

606
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: talking about. Thank you, Jared, so big thanks to Jared Dicker,

607
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: who is always blowing our minds. Lots to learn, lots

608
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: to digest, lots really kind of think about and apply

609
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: one thing. Like I would say in vite Jared into

610
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: your company. Invite Jared whether media company, brand, startup, Invite

611
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: Jared into your company to walk your teams through this

612
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: whole new um way of thinking in this technology. I

613
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: think that his whole point about, like we don't really

614
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: have competitors because we're all kind of moving towards this

615
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: you know, idea and technology of greater good and real

616
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: trust and transparency, etcetera. He wants people to understand this

617
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: and he wants to bring people on board, so call

618
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: him so with that, big thanks to our producer Dana,

619
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: Jacob Weisberg, Andy Bowers, Matt Turk, and all of our

620
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: friends and family at Panoply. We'll be back in two

621
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: weeks by Atlandia. Full disclosure, our opinions, our own