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Speaker 1: You are listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.

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Speaker 2: Arling Caaga is one of the world's great explorers, a

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Speaker 2: man whose life embraces solitude. He is the first person

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Speaker 2: to reach by foot the North Pole, South Pole, and

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Speaker 2: Mount Everest. His new book, The North Pole, The History

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Speaker 2: of an Obsession, is published this week, a compelling read,

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Speaker 2: taking us into his world of adventure, hidden dreams, adversity

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Speaker 2: and silence. Arling in My life might be dissimilar, but

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Speaker 2: we share a love for the unknown. For him, it

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Speaker 2: might be a new horizon for me, a discovery of

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Speaker 2: a little known Sicilian recipe. To day, we're here on

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Speaker 2: our own adventure, not on the top of a mountain

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Speaker 2: or in the icy North Pole, but safe and warm

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Speaker 2: in the river.

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Speaker 3: Cafe ha so Everest, South Pole, The North Pole.

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Speaker 2: Can you remember the times when you actually thought you

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Speaker 2: might die?

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Speaker 4: I never felt I might die, But if my mother

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Speaker 4: had seen me, she would certainly believe I was close

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Speaker 4: to dying quite a few times when you fall into

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Speaker 4: the water. But also, like we were attacked by a

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Speaker 4: polar bear.

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Speaker 3: Stop there, tell us. Many people start a sence like that,

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Speaker 3: what happened? Story?

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Speaker 4: We were close to the north pole. Suddenly heard my

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Speaker 4: partner but shouted hoy, which I never heard him showed before.

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Speaker 4: So I looked up and then saw polar bear at

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Speaker 4: twenty meters distance. How big was the bear probably if

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Speaker 4: you got after maybe two hundred and fifty kilos and

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Speaker 4: this far north, as we said as a joke afterwards,

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Speaker 4: is nothing to eat but polar explorers. So we knew

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Speaker 4: we knew it was going to charge. But when the

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Speaker 4: polar bears saw that we had seen seen it, it

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Speaker 4: stopped and we were able to dig into over sledges

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Speaker 4: and get a handgun each among forty four each. So

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Speaker 4: I got the gun and it was this short barrel

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Speaker 4: because we want to say, wait, so only two inches barrel,

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Speaker 4: so you can't hit the bear at twenty meters distance.

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Speaker 4: You had to wait until this close. But then my

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Speaker 4: partner berg, Yeah, he had this idea that he really

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Speaker 4: wanted to be published in National Geographic Magazine, which was

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Speaker 4: the biggest thing at the time. This was over Bible.

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Speaker 4: We kind of read like every Thursday.

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Speaker 2: I was an American who received it. Do you get

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Speaker 2: it every month?

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Speaker 4: Actually get that yellow exactly every third is or something

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Speaker 4: that had something on an expedition, which we always read

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Speaker 4: like it was like the New Testament. So he got

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Speaker 4: this idea, this is my chance. So he dropped the gun,

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Speaker 4: got the camera. He didn't have a film camera. This

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Speaker 4: was the time he had a film camera. And then

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Speaker 4: he got me posing between him and the bear. So

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Speaker 4: it took some photos and soon after the bear turned

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Speaker 4: towards us start to dig its four feet into the snow,

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Speaker 4: lowered its neck, so you knew of those gone to

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Speaker 4: charge and it can run up to sixty kilimelan over,

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Speaker 4: so it's so it's and it's twenty meters, so it's

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Speaker 4: it's let's say it was forty k over, so it's

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Speaker 4: really close up. Were both hired and hit it in

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Speaker 4: the chest, so it's and it's like, you know, neither

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Speaker 4: of us are you know, any desire to kill an animal,

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Speaker 4: and definitely not a polar bear. But when it's a

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Speaker 4: matter about who's having who for dinner, the choice for

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Speaker 4: simple even Gandey said you should kill an animal, want

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Speaker 4: to kill you.

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Speaker 2: We're here with Sean Renowan, who is director of The

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Speaker 2: River Cafe, the executive chef of the River Cafe, a

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Speaker 2: great friend of mine and has also wanted to talk

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Speaker 2: to you when I told you you were coming about food.

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Speaker 2: What we do as chefs, what you do is and

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Speaker 2: explore what is the food? If I was coming Sean

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Speaker 2: and I were coming to Norway and you were cooking

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Speaker 2: something to represent your kind of history in your life,

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Speaker 2: what would you give us?

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Speaker 4: I would in terms of meat, I would give you

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Speaker 4: sever reindeer, a low reindeer. And what reasonal low reindeer

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Speaker 4: is because reindeer lives a happy life from born until

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Speaker 4: its suddenly is dead, which I find very comfortable that

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Speaker 4: that the animal hasn't suffered because of meat. So and

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Speaker 4: also it's super tasty.

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Speaker 3: Is it like venison? Is it sweet?

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Speaker 4: No, it's it's I think it's richer in taste, of

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Speaker 4: course depends on what part of the of the reindeer,

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Speaker 4: and it's tasted a little bit wilderness. It tastes like,

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Speaker 4: you know, a little bit like being above the tree line,

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Speaker 4: you know, well cooked or you know, it's it's really

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Speaker 4: outstanding meal. And of course in Norway we have so

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Speaker 4: much seafood. Now it's cold season and I had some

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Speaker 4: cold a few days ago and it's just believe amazing.

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Speaker 4: And it's if you have a good piece which I

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Speaker 4: will get is almost ful proof.

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Speaker 3: How do you cook it?

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Speaker 4: The most important thing with cod is that which people

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Speaker 4: kind of forget or do not do not know, is

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Speaker 4: that you need to first of all, of course, get

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Speaker 4: a great piece, but then you need to salt it

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Speaker 4: heavily and leave it for at least twenty minutes, and

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Speaker 4: then rinse it with cold water because that makes the

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Speaker 4: fabric of the meat you call the meat and fabric

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Speaker 4: or the much more like almost like lobster meat, so

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Speaker 4: it doesn't fall apart in a way, like you know,

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Speaker 4: and also the tastes get a little bit richer. And

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Speaker 4: then afterwards you salt it and pepper it, and I

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Speaker 4: usually then put it in the oven on maybe two

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Speaker 4: and twenty degrees for twenty five minutes, maybe a plus

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Speaker 4: minus depending on the size of the piece, with some herbs,

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Speaker 4: and maybe I make some mash the root vegetables, but

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Speaker 4: definitely have a great salad and some good wine.

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Speaker 3: Okay, let's go.

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Speaker 4: I love having people visiting and make food, because that's

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Speaker 4: one of the great pressures you can have is to

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Speaker 4: share great food that you're really pretty heart into and

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Speaker 4: some good wines.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what was it like? Growing up in Oslo. Will

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Speaker 2: you talk to your family what was food like in

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Speaker 2: your house?

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Speaker 4: You know, I grew up in Olslow in the born

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Speaker 4: in sixty three and in the typical middle class family,

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Speaker 4: and middle class family at that time in Norway was

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Speaker 4: very different from middle class families today because post oil

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Speaker 4: fortune and mid class in Norways is different. So we

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Speaker 4: had like typical was you start the week Mondays Tuesdays

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Speaker 4: with something called fish balls like and then whale steaks whale.

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Speaker 3: Really, let's take this slowly, fish.

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Speaker 4: Like you made this kind of instead of meat balls

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Speaker 4: like fish balls like very popular Norway. Kind of simple,

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Speaker 4: not super healthy. I'm totally okay food. And at that

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Speaker 4: time fish is quite often cold, and whale was very

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Speaker 4: popular Norway.

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Speaker 3: In the six.

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Speaker 4: You know, if you have the best part of the whale,

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Speaker 4: it's delicious, but whale is huge, and of course we

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Speaker 4: had we didn't have the best part. And then it's

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Speaker 4: quite rough, raw, rough taste a little bit like seal.

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Speaker 4: But that maybe doesn't say it's so much either.

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Speaker 3: I've never been to the fish well steal.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's rough, but that's you know, it's a common

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Speaker 4: course in Norway at the time. And then and the

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Speaker 4: rest of the week. You know, it's the quality increased.

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Speaker 4: And then typically on Saturdays we had stimps or a

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Speaker 4: good piece of meat, and the same on Sundays and

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Speaker 4: always pudding.

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Speaker 3: What would you have pudding?

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Speaker 4: You know, this kind of chocolate thing or like the

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Speaker 4: strawberry thing, kind of quite simple but still cutting.

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Speaker 3: Everything that's important to your family.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and it became more and more important. My father

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Speaker 4: was a jazz critic, and not to have something extra

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Speaker 4: to do, he became a restaurant critic, so he took

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Speaker 4: me to the restaurant quite often when he meta critics.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, it became more and more important.

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Speaker 3: And did you play a lot of jazz.

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Speaker 4: Just all the time. My father said that pop music,

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Speaker 4: TV and cars are diseases in society and we should

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Speaker 4: only listen to jazz, blues and gospel music because it

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Speaker 4: was a just critic. We've got to we've got to

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Speaker 4: meet all this, you know, just musicians. He left his jail.

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Speaker 4: They all came to Norway, like you know, because in

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Speaker 4: Norway's they were superstars, you know. They came to our

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Speaker 4: house and every alcohol was very expensive and away at

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Speaker 4: the time, so we my father's sailed over sailed boat

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Speaker 4: to Germany every summer, and we bought dicker and took

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Speaker 4: it back home to Norway, and then we had a

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Speaker 4: big parties in the house. People got drunk and they

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Speaker 4: were playing and jamming into the night. I don't unfortunately.

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Speaker 3: And what about school? Tell me about going to school

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Speaker 3: every day?

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Speaker 4: School was not good to me.

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Speaker 2: You were dyslexic. Yeah, my husband is dyslexic, exactly, but

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Speaker 2: in those days they didn't actually well in his days

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Speaker 2: he was older than you.

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Speaker 3: They just called it being stupid exactly.

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Speaker 4: I think, you know, it's the good thing having those

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Speaker 4: disadvantages is that you learn all of the teacher tries

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Speaker 4: to help you. You learn not to trust authorities. I

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Speaker 4: had to find my own way to learn the same

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Speaker 4: as everyone else in class, so the teacher really couldn't

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Speaker 4: help me. And also you learn that life is brutal

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Speaker 4: at the early age. And I think you know, the

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Speaker 4: sooner you learn it, the better it this in your life.

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Speaker 3: You have children.

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Speaker 4: I have three daughters.

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Speaker 3: You want them to know that life is brutal.

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Speaker 4: Actually, actually I want them to know life is brutal.

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Speaker 4: And they know life is brutal, but of course they

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Speaker 4: have to learn it their own way.

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Speaker 3: When did you first become in love with a pole?

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Speaker 4: With the first time I became aware of the North Pole,

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Speaker 4: I was seven years old. My parents gave me this globe,

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Speaker 4: this globeust for my birthday present, and this was in

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Speaker 4: nineteen seventy. So at that time, the globes were small,

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Speaker 4: a bit bluish, dark blue where the oceans were deep,

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Speaker 4: it was dark brown where the mountains were high. And

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Speaker 4: at the top of the globe it was a little

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Speaker 4: flat metal plate to kind of hold the globe together.

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Speaker 4: And then I was wondering what's below that metal and

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Speaker 4: of course that was a North Pole. And then, as

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Speaker 4: you know, then I was wondering about it, and then

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Speaker 4: slowly through my life I got more and more interested

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Speaker 4: and eventually obsessed about walking to the North Pole. So

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Speaker 4: I was in love with the North Pole for many years.

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Speaker 4: And of course, as soon as I got to the pole,

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Speaker 4: I understood my real obsession had been about walking towards

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Speaker 4: the poll and not getting to the pole. The arrival

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Speaker 4: is like you know, it's the hunt is always more

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Speaker 4: fascinating than actually the killing.

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Speaker 3: Tell us the early days of walking.

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Speaker 4: I remember the first time I understood that I could

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Speaker 4: walk in any direction I wanted. I walked home from

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Speaker 4: kindergarten norway safe you walked back and forth to the

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Speaker 4: kindergarten by yourself, And I was walking towards over home.

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Speaker 4: Then suddenly understood I could just turn ninety degrees and

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Speaker 4: walk straight into the forest. That was a beautiful feeling.

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Speaker 3: And then.

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Speaker 4: And then I was dreaming, and I was dreaming about

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Speaker 4: sailing the oceans, which I eventually did through my twenties.

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Speaker 4: And then this idea about, like you know, really fulfilling

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Speaker 4: my dream about walking to the North Pole kept on

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Speaker 4: popping up in my head, and eventually, in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 4: Berga Aslan and myself we did it, and they prepared for.

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Speaker 3: More than ski.

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Speaker 4: He was a guy I had never met before. He

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Speaker 4: had the same dream, obsessed by getting to the North Pole,

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Speaker 4: and obsessed by getting to the North Pole in the

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Speaker 4: most difficult way, not using ski doos or dogs or

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Speaker 4: air supply, but just walking, dragging over sledges all the

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Speaker 4: way to the North Pole. The first thurday nights we

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Speaker 4: shared sleeping bag. And then eventually, like you know, off

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Speaker 4: doing such an expedition, he either become friends or the opposite. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 4: we became very close friends.

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Speaker 3: You had a great question. Oh no, I was.

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Speaker 5: We were just asking how you know when you get

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Speaker 5: to the North Pole, is it like a sign.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to Because when you get to the pole, the ice,

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Speaker 4: you're standing in the ice. The ice is moving all

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Speaker 4: the time, so after a few hours you're a little

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Speaker 4: bit off the North Pole, depending on the drift. But

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Speaker 4: the thing at the North Pole which is interesting is

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Speaker 4: that the sun has the same angle above the horizon

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Speaker 4: for twenty four hours, so the needly goes up and down,

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Speaker 4: and then of course and of course the compass needle

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Speaker 4: is pointing to ourselves. The wind comes from the south,

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Speaker 4: it blowing towards the south. It's one day and one

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Speaker 4: night every year. The sun rises once and it sets

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Speaker 4: once during a year, so it's but then again it's

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Speaker 4: it's just ice. It's just a mathematical point there.

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Speaker 5: You have to lose yourself to get the place.

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Speaker 4: That's the interesting thing, because when they get to the

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Speaker 4: northfoll it's not there. There, it's nothing. It's just ice,

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Speaker 4: gray white, and maybe the horizon is blue. That's it,

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Speaker 4: and it's moving. It's it's it's nothing there.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps we should actually talk about you and iron chine.

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Speaker 2: We're going to the north pole.

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Speaker 3: Were going.

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Speaker 4: Okay, we can slow, you can slaughter halfway and.

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Speaker 2: The north So we're there, and I would like to

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Speaker 2: know what is my food daylight? What will I be eating?

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Speaker 2: What's the longest time you've gone on a trip? Would

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Speaker 2: it be for a month? Would it be seas too much?

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Speaker 4: Like sixty six to five days?

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Speaker 3: Sixty five?

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Speaker 4: Bring all the food you need, we do the whole time.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So what are the disciplines around that? How much

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Speaker 2: it will wait to carry, how much space it will take,

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Speaker 2: and how much nutrition will it give you?

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Speaker 4: Yes? Balance it's you eat around one kilow every day

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Speaker 4: with dried food and they mix it with water. It's

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Speaker 4: all dry old dryeder say weight because what is it

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Speaker 4: for breakfast? You have a o oat meal?

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Speaker 3: You have to use a lot of water.

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Speaker 4: Then, Yeah, from melting ice and snow. Oh so you

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Speaker 4: don't bring in the water. So that's a good noise,

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Speaker 4: that's a goodness. So don't worry about that.

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Speaker 3: Take any you just take the snow and just let it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you need to find all old ice because fresh

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Speaker 4: fresh ice contains lots of salt. So you can tell

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Speaker 4: by the color of the eyes if it contains salt

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Speaker 4: or not. And then how do you melt it? You

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Speaker 4: melt it by having little primasies that what they call

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Speaker 4: it little heater, which is made in a way so

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Speaker 4: all the heat from the flame goes to the pot.

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Speaker 4: So even when it's minus fourteen fifty degrees, we're not

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Speaker 4: heating the tent. It gets a little bit warmer because

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Speaker 4: of the body heat, but it's we don't heat the tent.

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Speaker 3: Why don't you want to eat?

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Speaker 4: Because you want to say weight. So you have like

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Speaker 4: two des liters of fuel per day, and then you

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Speaker 4: have to really save everything because you've got the drag

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Speaker 4: everything you need for more than two months. And then

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Speaker 4: you're not having enough fuel to heat the tent, so

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Speaker 4: you're freezing so much to actually you know you sometimes

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Speaker 4: you start crying because you're freezing so much. But anyway,

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Speaker 4: so this this old milk, but also we mix it

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Speaker 4: with formula milk, dried formula milk, because that's what gives

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Speaker 4: the most energy. Program and then eat the same for

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Speaker 4: larnch throughout the day. Maybe some chocolate or definitely some chocolate,

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Speaker 4: but with extra calories, especially made chocolate. The extra calories

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Speaker 4: just as ack like a snack having brakes and maybe chocolate,

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Speaker 4: like you have to get used to the taste, I

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Speaker 4: really because it's so much fat in it, so it

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Speaker 4: doesn't really taste well at home. But you know, the

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Speaker 4: thing is this food is none of this food tastes

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Speaker 4: really good when you start eating it. But then as

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Speaker 4: it days and weeks pass by and you get more

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Speaker 4: and more tired and more and more hungry, it tastes

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Speaker 4: better and better and better, and eventually it tastes as

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Speaker 4: good as a food that we recoffee. Absolutely, that's the

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Speaker 4: whole thing that expeditions. You need to be really well prepared.

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Speaker 4: It's like this Nowigian explorer Amundson road that victory awaits

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Speaker 4: the one who has everything in order. People calls it

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Speaker 4: good luck, while defeat always follows bad preparations, people calls

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Speaker 4: it bad luck. It's brutal and true. Are you hungry

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Speaker 4: all these hungry? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Always?

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Speaker 4: So we are still meeting twice a year, but me

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Speaker 4: and we're eating the food we're dreaming about while walking

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Speaker 4: towards the pol Oh that's nice.

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Speaker 3: So then that's all the through the day, and.

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Speaker 4: Then then we have dinner, which is dried meat and

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Speaker 4: either some pasta or some mushed potatoes to get some volume.

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Speaker 4: And again lots of fat. And that's when.

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Speaker 3: You say lots of fats. What would that be like?

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Speaker 4: Quite a few spoonfuls every evening. And then because we're starving,

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Speaker 4: one had to split the portions and the other one

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Speaker 4: had to choose. So then you make sure that we

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Speaker 4: get you know, equal portions.

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Speaker 5: I have to take like implements to cook like a

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Speaker 5: regular billy can or would you take special lightweight kit

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Speaker 5: that you can use to cook and.

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Speaker 4: Supert Everything is light, Everything is light. That's the thing

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Speaker 4: you need to keep everything of. The slogan is think

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Speaker 4: had travel light and leave the fairs behind.

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Speaker 3: You your fears.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's sort kind of recipe for getting to the

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Speaker 4: North Pole.

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Speaker 2: Imagine estate bottled olive oil chosen and bottled for the

337
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:22,159
Speaker 2: River Cafe, arriving at your door every month. Our subscription

338
00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,919
Speaker 2: is available for six or twelve months, with each oil

339
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,920
Speaker 2: chosen personally by our head chefs and varying with each delivery.

340
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,280
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341
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,360
Speaker 2: into your home or to show someone you really care

342
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 2: for them with the gift. Visit our website shop the

343
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,360
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Speaker 3: Now, I was.

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Speaker 2: Going to ask you if you ever on a trip

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Speaker 2: were aware that it might be your birthday, it might

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Speaker 2: be Christmas, it might be a Norwegian holiday.

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Speaker 3: Do you celebrate in any way?

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Speaker 4: Yes. When I walked to the South Paul alone, I

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Speaker 4: had Christmas and New Year's by myself. I was alone

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Speaker 4: for fifty days and nights.

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Speaker 3: And fifty were alone for fifty days and.

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Speaker 4: No radio and no telephone contact, so in total solitude.

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Speaker 4: So then I was still remembering Christmas Eve, which is

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Speaker 4: a big day in Norway. I ate a little bit extra,

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Speaker 4: had a piece of cake with me. When you're alone

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Speaker 4: for such a long time, you kind of stop thinking

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Speaker 4: in the sense that the past and the future don't

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Speaker 4: matter so much. And of course that's a kind of

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Speaker 4: a noise too, because thinking and think about the past

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Speaker 4: or the future, but very much in the present. You

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Speaker 4: kind of stop thinking, which is a beautiful feeling. But

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Speaker 4: then on Christmas Eve, I sat there eating this cake,

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Speaker 4: I felt like, at least like, you know, then I

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Speaker 4: was thinking about people back home and that they were

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Speaker 4: thinking about me. Because also when you're alone for such

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Speaker 4: a long time you don't really believe people, then you

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Speaker 4: kind of you kind of get a feeling that you're

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Speaker 4: also kind of forgotten.

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Speaker 3: And was ther pleasure that you had when you were okay?

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Speaker 4: The pleasure is I think the pleasures on an expedition

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Speaker 4: are there original sources to gratefulness in the sense that

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Speaker 4: you get rest when you're tired, you get warm after

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Speaker 4: having been cold, you get full after having been hungry,

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Speaker 4: and that kind of that's what gratefulness is about. And

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Speaker 4: I think gratefulness is one of the most undervalued things

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Speaker 4: in life. And as I say, Norway, where most people

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Speaker 4: should be super duper grateful all day hard and one

379
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Speaker 4: is grateful, so you know you should almost learn in

380
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Speaker 4: that school to be grateful. But anyway, on an expedition,

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Speaker 4: you really feel gratefulness for those three reasons and the

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Speaker 4: same reasons why humans very grateful one hundred thousand years ago.

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Speaker 2: When you walk to the North Pole, when you walk

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Speaker 2: to climb Everest, when you what is the difference between

385
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Speaker 2: walking to it and walking towards home?

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Speaker 3: Is there a different at It's.

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Speaker 4: Most accidents are happening on the way down from the mountain,

388
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Speaker 4: because then you are more self confident you're happy with yourself,

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Speaker 4: you kind of reach your goal, at least that's what

390
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:33,479
Speaker 4: you believe. Then suddenly you do take a wrong step

391
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Speaker 4: or forget being careful, and then you may have an excellence.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about getting there and preparing to leave, but

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Speaker 2: what about returning and what kind of process is that

394
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Speaker 2: to return from being fifty days on your own, eating

395
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Speaker 2: porridge with fat, walking and feeling cold, feeling hungry, feeling tired,

396
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Speaker 2: coming back to an embracing life of friendship and people.

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Speaker 4: And it's especially coming home after having not speaking with

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Speaker 4: en one for fifty days. It's really strange. And eventually,

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Speaker 4: after a few weeks, I didn't really miss speaking to

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Speaker 4: anyone either. I'm a very social person, but I kind

401
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 4: of liked it. I like the rhythm, I like the routee.

402
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 4: I like you know, it's you're getting a part on agu.

403
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Speaker 4: It's like your body doesn't stop by your skin or

404
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 4: your thing, your tips, but kind of extended into the

405
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 4: eyes on the horizon, and you have a dialogue with

406
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Speaker 4: the nature. You send some ideas out to get all

407
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 4: the thoughts back again without words, and Sunday you're back home.

408
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 4: After a few days, you're washing machine breaks down or

409
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 4: whatever you need, you need to have help. But after

410
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 4: a few weeks you get you know, you get into

411
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Speaker 4: the rhythm of daily life in olslow and I like

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Speaker 4: that too.

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Speaker 2: When you're back in that world, do you dream of

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Speaker 2: the world of walking on your own?

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Speaker 4: I don't dream about it, but I keep on going

416
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Speaker 4: back to nature. I think that's maybe the biggest mistake

417
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 4: humans are doing today, that we are we have separated

418
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Speaker 4: over cells from nature, that we think we are above nature,

419
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Speaker 4: we don't need nature, we have conquerent nature. And I

420
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Speaker 4: think that's one of the sources for many of the

421
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 4: problems we have in the world today, that we don't

422
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Speaker 4: relate to nature, not understanding or accepting that we are

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Speaker 4: part of nature.

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Speaker 3: We've talked about being solitary.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about going far away from a community, from family,

426
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 2: from friends. We've talked about thinking about them when you're away.

427
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Speaker 2: We thought about leaving them. We've talked about coming back.

428
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Speaker 2: Can you tell us the effect of your obsession on

429
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 2: people you love or people you want to love, people

430
00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 2: you want to be with.

431
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Speaker 3: How is that affected You're exploring?

432
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Speaker 4: It is difficult because when you have this desire, you

433
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 4: leave so many things behind you, your family, your kids,

434
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 4: wives and girlfriends in order and a kind of expression.

435
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 4: All expression that every girl loves an explorer, and the

436
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 4: recent girl loves an explorer is because it's so much fun.

437
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 4: It's so much going on, so much curiosity, so much wonder,

438
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 4: so many things are happening, so many adventures, et cetera.

439
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 4: But eventually the girl that understand that this is not

440
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 4: going to stop. All these men they went out, they

441
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 4: had wives, girlfriends, fiances, kids, and quite often they ever

442
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 4: came home and nobody knew what had happened.

443
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 2: How many people died? Going to were you under the

444
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 2: few survivors or no?

445
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 4: It's traditionally until nineteen hundred, let's say, you know, the

446
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 4: numbers are not hard, not easily figure out, but I said,

447
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 4: around one thousand people child and seven hundred and fifty

448
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 4: one died, So it was The North Pole has been

449
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 4: the most difficult place to reach on Earth, and also

450
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 4: where people had sacrificed the most, I would think, and

451
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 4: also the longest period because people tried for four hundred years.

452
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 4: And what's interesting is that no one knows who got

453
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 4: to the pole. The North Pole remains mysterious, and that's

454
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 4: also one of the reasons I want to write the

455
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 4: book from prehistoric times, when people sitting in the northern

456
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 4: Hemisphere looking into the skies ten thousand years ago, one

457
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 4: hundred thousand years ago, everything was going around and routed

458
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 4: all the stars, the Earth was moving in circles. Just

459
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 4: one fixed point in the whole world, and that was

460
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 4: the north star to Polaris. And then people start to wonder,

461
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 4: why is that this one fixed point and what's below

462
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 4: it on Earth? And understood this probably midnight Sun. And

463
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 4: then they started to have this idea that it was

464
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 4: original life was at a north pole. And as late

465
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 4: as eighteen eighty four the dean at Boston University brought

466
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 4: a full book to prove that Adam and Eve and

467
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 4: the Garden of Eden had been at a north pole.

468
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 4: That was a common idea, belief until the eighteen eighties.

469
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 3: When did you go to Cambridge to study philosophy?

470
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 4: In nineteen ninety five, I already had a law degree.

471
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 4: But in ninety five, I or ninety four I kind

472
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 4: of felt going on expeditions had become a routine like

473
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 4: any other routine. You get a goal, you get sponsorships,

474
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 4: you do the expedition, you do talks, you do maybe

475
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 4: a writ a book and then another expedition. So I

476
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 4: want to break free from it. And I was also

477
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 4: fed up kind of talking about it. Fortunately they let

478
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 4: me in on Cambridge like a besitting scholar. It was

479
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 4: true privilege to be there and really dig deep into

480
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 4: moral philosophy.

481
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 3: Do you have a philosopher that has had an impact

482
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 3: on you?

483
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 4: Yes, quite a few. It is Spinulza and also this

484
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 4: Norwegian philosopher RNNs who also an expert on Spinulsa. I

485
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 4: knew it, but he kind of also explained to me

486
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 4: that kind of importance in life, that you need physical pain,

487
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 4: you need psychological pain to have a great life. I

488
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 4: think it's important every day to make life more difficult

489
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 4: and the best things in life are difficult to achieve.

490
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 2: The River Cafe, when you said lunch is now running

491
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 2: from Monday to Thursday. Reserve a booking at www. Rivercafe

492
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 2: dot co or give us a call. Can I go

493
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 2: back to one thing, which is about food? When you

494
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: were growing up and you've had this obsession in walking,

495
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 2: and did you find food an interesting discovery? I went

496
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: to Norway probably in nineteen ninety or very very early

497
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 2: on I think when Rose and I were doing a

498
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: TV series and we went to where we flew from

499
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 2: Oslo the north to see where they make the salt

500
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 2: cod because that's you know, salt cod is one of

501
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 2: the great industries because of religion. So people who live

502
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 2: in Brazil or lived far away and had to have

503
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 2: fish Catholics on a Friday. They depended on salt cod

504
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 2: travel and.

505
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 4: It was the most important thing Norway exported for several

506
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 4: hundred years. So it may kind of the west coast

507
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 4: of Norway, you know, people get really rich. And also

508
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 4: the Northern Park because of the black export.

509
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 3: Has the fishing change.

510
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 4: With climate, everything kind of changes. Yeah, so it's it's

511
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 4: the further north to get like the northern part of

512
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 4: Norway and small wine. Everything is changes because the temperature

513
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 4: is increasing like around small but three times more than

514
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 4: the rest of the world. Are they still whales there

515
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 4: are whales. Yeah. Fortunately, you know they're protected such a whales.

516
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, they can't fish well meat anymore.

517
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 4: Now you know, they can do it for scientific purposes

518
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 4: and then some you know, yeah, so it's yeah, so

519
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 4: you can still get whale beats.

520
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 5: I was thinking about when you're training to do the walk.

521
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 5: Do you need to like put on waste? So you

522
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 5: have to eat to put on weight, and because you

523
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 5: must be training to do you have to train to walk,

524
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 5: you get like starving, but have to eat really carefully

525
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 5: or are you're allowed to just go madly.

526
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 4: Like you have to. It's a good question because you

527
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 4: have to gain weight at the same time as exercising

528
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 4: a lot, and then you also have to train your

529
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 4: body to absorb everything you eat. More like so you

530
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 4: need on an expedition, you need to get as many

531
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 4: calories program as possible, and then you need to eat fat.

532
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 4: And if you eat lots of fat, your body won't

533
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 4: absorb it. So what we did is the time before

534
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 4: we left, I had porridge in the morning, lots of

535
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 4: extra fat. Yeah, so I had a bucket with this

536
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 4: fat in my kitchen and I'll add it in every

537
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 4: meal for a long time, for like, you know, a

538
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 4: half year or something, and then again twelve fourteen kilos

539
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 4: and then yeah, fourteen killers.

540
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 5: See, when you're out in the North Pole, you must

541
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 5: be going how many calories do you need a day there?

542
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 4: You need probably need maybe ten thousands of day whatever.

543
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 4: But that's too much to eat. So we eat around

544
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 4: six thousand calories a day. But then you all the

545
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 4: fat is just you know, draining off you. So eventually

546
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 4: you get rid of the fat and then also lots

547
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 4: of muscle mass. So it's it's it's not super healthy.

548
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 5: So when you're training, you're eating, you're bunking up. And

549
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 5: is there any enjoyment in eating when you're trying to

550
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 5: add tablespoons of fat to everything you eat?

551
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 4: No, you know, and eat a lot of chocolate, et cetera,

552
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 4: and it's it's, of course, as everyone knows, when you

553
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 4: eat chocolate, the first bite is the best and then

554
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 4: you keep on eating. Yeah, but you know, it's it's

555
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 4: a part of the game.

556
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 2: When I talk to a footballer now, as I did

557
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 2: with someone called Ian Right or Garry then, and they

558
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 2: talk about how the concept of what you eat now

559
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 2: when you're an athlete has changed so much in totally

560
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 2: even thirty years four years, they used to eat a

561
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 2: huge meal before a game. You know, they didn't think

562
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,959
Speaker 2: about any idea that food would have an effect on

563
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 2: your performance, whereas now the science of performance and food

564
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 2: is so sophisticated. If someone was going on or you

565
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 2: were going on a trip, would you still have powers

566
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 2: with all that fat change.

567
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 4: I think you know, we in the nineties we kind

568
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 4: of reinvented what you could eat on an expedition. People

569
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 4: said to us, it's not possible to eat so much

570
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 4: calories program as we did, but by training over bodies

571
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 4: to do it, we were able to. And of course

572
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 4: what we were eating are very different from what top

573
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 4: athletes are eating. So I think you know, the way

574
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 4: you know the food we had is still relevant today.

575
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 4: It is. But of course, like in the nineties footballers

576
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 4: in England they were after the games, they were stopping

577
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 4: and buying fish and chips and hamburgers. Favorable after the

578
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 4: game all the players was absolutely ridiculous by today's standard.

579
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 2: And if you were, as I was saying, experience pain,

580
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 2: experience hunger, loneliness, and you think that you do need comfort,

581
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 2: is there a food that you reach for.

582
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 4: When you are on the expedition and if you're hungry,

583
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 4: just want as much as possible, and you want fat.

584
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 4: So this polar bear was shot. We cooked parts of

585
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 4: it when it got to the pole. Tasted like cold oil,

586
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 4: like an oil to get from cold so that tastes

587
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 4: doesn't taste good Bye. Civilized standards, but we kind of

588
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 4: you just loved it.

589
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 5: What would be your top meal that you'd be like,

590
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 5: Oh my god, I'd do anything to just eat that

591
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 5: right now.

592
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 4: Lots of meat and fat. Yeah, I loved it as

593
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 4: a kid. And then I think about those happy moments,

594
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 4: and I think that's also why I love a great

595
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 4: pasta today.

596
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, thank you

597
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership

598
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: with Montclair