WEBVTT - 9. Tomorrow I'm Going to Rob the Bank 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:09.760 Fuck him. 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:12.680 That's what Flavio says as he hangs up the phone 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:19.200 with Massimo Romagnoli. Fuck him. After DEA agent's arrests Flavio, 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:22.920 he agrees to help them lure Massimo to Montenegro. 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:26.280 He told me that the client had brought the money 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:27.080 to Montenegro. 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:32.360 Here's Massimo, or rather the voice actor who's been reading 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:34.360 Massimo's court testimony. 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.640 And so we found an agreement so that I would 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:42.040 also go to Montenegro to collect the money. I informed 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:45.879 him that I found a ticket for Podgorica, Montenegro, and 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:47.080 we would meet there. 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:50.680 The next morning. Massimo flies into Montenegro. 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.520 Right after passport control, I was arrested by the police. 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:02.840 US authorities announced the arrests of Flavior Georgescu, Christian Vntilla, 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:08.640 and Massimo Romagnoli on charges of conspiring to provide material 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:13.840 support to terrorists. The terrorists in this case were Juan 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:17.800 and the other FARC guys, who were, of course not 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:22.760 really terrorists but DEA informants. Under federal conspiracy law, a 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:26.400 defendant doesn't have to help actual terrorists. The defendant just 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:30.440 needs to think he's helping terrorists. Well, the arrest don't 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:34.399 get much attention in the US. They're big news in Romania. 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:42.000 As you are. Virgil, Flavio, Giorgesco farc Sant. 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:52.720 And in Italy. Flavio, Christian and Massimo are all about 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:57.240 to be extradited to America to face federal criminal charges. 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:03.560 If convicted, all three men could spend the rest of 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:09.520 their lives in prison. I'm Trevor Aronson from Western Sound 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:36.360 and iHeart Podcast. This is Alphabet Boys, Episode nine. Tomorrow, 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:49.080 I'm going to rob the bank. Flavio, Christian and Massimo 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:54.240 are thrown into holding cells in Montenegro until American officials 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:58.880 can sort out their extradition to New York. At first, 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:03.280 Flavio isn't too concerned about any of this. He could 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:06.000 have persuaded the DEA guys who arrested him that he's 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:09.200 working with the CIA, but he helped them lure Massimo 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:15.160 to Montenegro anyway, And besides, Flavia figures the DEA and 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:17.720 the Justice Department will talk to their counterparts at the 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:22.480 CIA and everything will be sorted out soon enough. They'll 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:26.680 all realize that Flavio's on their team. How else could 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:28.560 they explain the call to the CIA. 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.359 In twenty twelve, good afternoon. 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:32.000 How can I help you? 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:37.480 Hi, I reminded me, and I was. 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:38.160 Born in Roma. 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:47.520 Flavio, as you know, now tells the CIA agents everything 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:53.360 about Andy, about Wan, about the arms deal, about the 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:57.040 whole crime before he actually commits it. 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:02.200 He's like, U core Rhino nine one. You let them know. Tomorrow, 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:05.400 I'm gonna rob the bank in fifth Avenue City Bank 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.040 in the corner. This is my social security, my name, 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.600 my plates on the car, my V number, and I 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:12.480 have this shotgun and I have this one will be 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:15.320 nine o'clock. You're gonna go tomorrow to rob that bank. 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:17.360 You have to be nuts, totally nuts. 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:22.560 Flavio's analogy works. It's hard to argue that it doesn't. Honestly, 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.800 who would be crazy enough to call the police tell 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:30.000 them the entire plan to rob a bank and then 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:38.080 go rob that bank. That's essentially what Flavio did, but 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:43.680 with a much more serious crime. His was an international 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:48.000 arms deal worth millions of dollars and involving the FARC 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:54.080 at the time, a US designated foreign terrorist organization. To 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:58.159 Flavio in the immediate days after his arrest, this all 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:03.720 just seems like a temporary misunderstanding. The CIA didn't know 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.839 what the DEA was doing, and neither the CIA nor 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:13.080 the DEA knows about Flavio's previous work for the FBI, 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:19.359 So he's stuck temporarily in the muck of bureaucracy, but 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:23.520 eventually he thinks the FEDS will figure it out. We're 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:24.960 talking about Americans here. 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:29.520 Well. 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:33.159 Locked up in Montenegro, Flavio says he receives several visits 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:38.000 from US officials. They're with the State Department, or so 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:38.440 they say. 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:42.359 They was keep coming from Washington to interview me and 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.279 the ward them from that prison. He was asking me 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:48.400 who you are and I said nobody. I'm just a 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:52.360 consulting businessman. And he said, no, you are not a 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:55.400 consulting businessman. Because these people they come with a private 0:05:55.480 --> 0:06:00.000 JIT and it's the State Department private JIT and sometimes 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.600 as they come escorted by US military jets, as I 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:05.560 don't know who they are, and they came over there 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:09.039 for four or five times. I give them all the 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.359 information about arms, laundry and everything, and they let me 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:14.039 burn over there like an animal. 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:20.839 By left them over there like an animal. Flavio is 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.720 referring to the conditions of a cell in Montenegro restayed 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.159 for a little more than two months during the winter 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:28.320 of twenty fifteen. 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:34.440 I was physically and shically torture over there. Like they 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:37.480 opened the window from the cell and they keep it 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.680 open day and night. There was so much snow outside, 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:44.200 and I couldn't close it because it was so high, 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:49.520 and I couldn't sleep. I couldn't do anything, and they 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:51.800 keep the lights on all the time, and so much 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.760 noise over there. I couldn't sleep. And when I was 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:58.440 trying to use the bedroom one time, when I got there, 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:02.120 I was seeing on the toilet and a rat jump 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:06.440 from the toilet on my butt. I started to scream 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:09.279 so bad, and they came inside with a broomsick and 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:11.440 they killed a rat over there in the toilet. They 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:17.000 break the toilet to the ceramics toilet and the bailift. 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:22.440 To this day, Flavia tells me he can't sit on 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:24.560 a toilet. He has to put his feet on a 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.840 seat and squat so we can always keep an eye 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:32.080 on the water below him. Another rat's never going to 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:39.720 surprise him. Flavio says he couldn't understand why all this 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:44.720 was happening to him, A good man thrown into a cold, 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:52.360 dark cell in Eastern Europe. I've mentioned already that I 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:56.720 struggle to determine what's true in Flavia's story. I really do. 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:01.840 I find myself wanting to believe his claim that he 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:04.600 called the CIA because he felt a duty to help 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:10.440 see something say something Flavio believed. And certainly there's evidence 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:15.560 that appears to support this. Why else, as just one example, 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:20.320 would Flavio have agreed to Lord Massimo to Montenegro no 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:25.640 strings attached. The most reasonable explanation to me is that 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:30.040 Flavio believed he was on the same team as the DEA. 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:35.480 But then there's something else that throws me to the 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:41.320 other side questioning Flavio's story, and that is Christian Venttilla's 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:47.959 account of what happens next. In late February twenty fifteen, 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:52.839 following their detention in Montenegro, Flavio, Christian, and Massimo are 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.120 flown to New York on a private jet. Flavio is 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:58.480 seated next to Christian for the eight hour trip. 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:04.640 Told me that previously, during the activity in this deal, 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:08.560 he called the CIA and informed them about this activity. 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:11.640 This is Christian from escort testimony. 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.560 He told me that the CIA's answer was not to 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:20.000 get implicated and mind his own business. And he also 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:23.680 told me that when we got arrested, he told the 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:27.800 agent who arrested us the same thing. So during the 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.880 eight hours he told me that based on this, we 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:34.440 should build a story that we weren't trying to do 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.800 a deal with them. We were just trying to collect 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.560 information to give it to the government so we can 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:42.280 use it as a defense. 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:49.520 Christian claims that Flavio on the plane tells him that 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:53.440 he knew the CIA didn't want him to get involved. 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.400 Christian suggests that Flavio's intent was to use the CIA 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:04.360 call as a cover store in case he ever got caught. 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:12.000 But christian story is suspicious too, because apparently he doesn't 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:16.200 know that the CIA call is ambiguous. There are no 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:20.400 clear cut don't do anything on this instructions from the 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:25.120 CIA on the recordings. The call didn't happen the way 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:30.480 Christian claims Flavio described it. So if what Christian is 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:36.360 saying is true, why would Flavio say this. It doesn't 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:43.119 really make sense. So Christian's claim just raises more questions. Questions. 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.839 I can't ask Christian because you won't talk to me. 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:49.439 I don't want to do this thing, and I only 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.480 want to tell the truth. And actually that's what I 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:54.480 told the agents in the plane. 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:58.080 In any case, Christian refuses to go along with Flavio's 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:01.160 plan to sink their stories part of a joint defense. 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:04.560 He told me, if I don't agree to work with 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:08.560 him in this way, he should. I should help him too, 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.920 because he worked previously with higher agency than DEA, and 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.880 his wife is running around trying to get in touch 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:22.080 with those agencies. That agency he worked for is going 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:23.360 to save him. 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:28.040 Christian is referring to the FBI. Flavio tells Christian that 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.040 not only had he called the CIA, but that he 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.760 had previously worked for the FBI, an agency with a 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.240 much bigger stick than the DEA has, and that the 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:42.000 FBI would help him out of this jam. Flavio tells 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.439 Christian as they're on the flight that his wife Andre 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.680 is burning up the phones as they speak, trying to 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:54.600 enlist the FBI's help, and that last part I can 0:11:54.640 --> 0:12:00.160 say with certainty that part's true. 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.120 I was working for the Attorney Journal's office in New Mexico, 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:08.559 and I get a phone call from Flavio's wife. 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:12.600 This is Mark Pinto, the FBI agent who is Flavio's 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:16.800 handler in Las Vegas. By this time, Mar's left the bureau. 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.559 He hasn't seen or talked to Flavio in a decade, 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:23.960 and he doesn't even know that Flavio is now married. 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:28.400 I have a different telephone number, and Flavio didn't have 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:34.319 a wife, so I'm institutionally paranoid, like, I can't talk 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:37.880 to you. And she goes on and she's pleading, and 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.079 I said, I'll have to think about this. 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.960 Right after that call, Mark, it's another from the US 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:49.040 Attorney's office in New York. They want to talk to 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.320 him about Flavio, and. 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:54.199 I'm like, I don't want to talk about Flavio. I 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:56.480 don't want to talk about the old days. I don't 0:12:56.480 --> 0:13:02.280 want to talk about anything. I'm out. I'm out. I 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.599 don't want my house burned down for whatever reasons, or 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:07.800 I don't want the ire of the US government. And 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.640 he goes well, the US considers him a terrorist, and like, 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:13.160 all the more reason I don't want to be the 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:18.280 former FBI agent that's taking the stand in defense of 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.400 a terrorist in some dea case because I don't have 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:23.800 any of the details and I haven't seen Flavio in 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:28.800 forever in a day, and they asked my opinion, I'm like, well, 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:32.840 my opinion is if it's the same Flavio and nothing's 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:37.400 drastically changed in his life, he got railroaded. But that's 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:39.480 my opinion, my uninformed opinion. 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:49.040 But as any good investigator would be, Marx intrigued. He 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:53.120 wants to know more, so he flies to New York 0:13:53.840 --> 0:14:15.560 to meet with the prosecutors more after the break, Mark Pinto, 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:20.560 Flavio's former FBI handler in Las Vegas, meets with the 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:25.440 prosecutors assigned to Flavio's case. They lay out the whole case, 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.960 how Flavio recruited Christian and Massimo and attempted to sell 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:34.720 weapons to Wan and his colleagues, who Flavio believed were 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:38.600 agents for the FARC in Colombia. The prosecutors tell Mark 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:42.520 about Flavio's call to the CIA and claim it was 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:47.240 nothing more than Flavio creating a cover in case he 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:47.720 was caught. 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.520 And when they laid out everything, my opinion hadn't changed. 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.240 The Flavio was the same that he loves. The United 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.960 States would have done anything for him. He would have 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:01.920 sacrificed his life this country for what it stands for. 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:04.480 So you think it's credible the story that he says 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.600 he called the CIA to not to I mean, the 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.320 government says that was a cover right, but Flavio has 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:12.960 maintained that he really thought he was reporting a crime 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:14.280 and was helping the US government. 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.480 So you're putting me in a tough position as you 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:19.440 sit there with your arms crossed the way for me 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:23.000 to answer truthfully because I don't want to go contrary 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:29.240 because I don't know what the prosecuting attorneys know, not really. 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:35.480 And I was afraid when I heard that Flavio was 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.840 going to be locked away forever and the key thrown away, 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:43.080 because they're pretty serious charges. And I felt terrible because 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:48.040 there's nothing I can do about it. To be quite honest, 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:53.359 there's nothing I can do about it without risking my lifestyle, 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:55.320 in my wife's lifestyle. 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:00.640 What Mark means here is that he was fired from 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:06.440 the FBI. Remember when Flavio first met his handlers, he 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.280 brought some bottles of wine as a gift, and there 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:13.040 was a big argument until Mark agreed to accept the wine. 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:19.560 That was against FBI policy. Mark's willingness to break the 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:25.240 FBI's small administrative rules eventually caught up with him, costing 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:30.360 him his job. He considers testifying in Flavio's trial to 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.760 describe how Flavio worked with the Bureau in Vegas and 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.680 how that might help explain his behavior with the CIA, 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:42.560 But in the end Mark chooses not to come forward, 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.360 fearing that he would open himself up to questions. But 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:53.360 as FBI career, it's a decision that years later haunts Mark. 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:59.320 I'm retired, and what I do in retirement is I 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.480 take my file the church and I go to Bible study, 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:10.480 and I study the Bible, gnostic exegies of Paul and 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:14.199 this kind of esoteric stuff they give people headaches that 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:18.040 you drone on and on about academically that no one 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:22.840 cares about. And what's common through all that is it's 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:28.879 like people shouldn't be prosecuted unjustly. And I found myself 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:34.480 standing outside with a lot of guilt on my shoulders 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:38.320 because I'm not the man I'd like to be. And 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.080 it's easy to do the right thing when it doesn't 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:46.160 cost you everything. 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:53.119 The end result of all this is that Flavio is 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:58.000 on his own facing trial. Flavio doesn't get help from 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:02.639 Mark or any one at the FBI. The bureau does 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:07.840 the bare minimum handing over internal reports that support Flavio's 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:11.320 claims of having been an informant, but the FBI does 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:18.760 not offer anyone to testify about Flavio's substantial cooperation. But 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:23.840 Flavio does get help from an unlikely group of FEDS. 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:30.760 The CIA. Remarkably, and I want to emphasize how unusual 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:36.159 this is, the CIA turns over two recordings the calls 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:41.320 from twenty twelve between Flavio and the agents. This is 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:47.320 remarkable because the CIA rarely gets involved in US criminal prosecutions. 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:53.200 The agency is a black hole, very little light escapes. 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.920 The CIA could have reported that it didn't have recordings 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:02.320 of the calls Flavio claims made, and that would have 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:05.119 been the end of it. No one would have had 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:09.879 the access and authority to prove the CIA wrong. So 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:15.400 that fact that the CIA turns over the recordings voluntarily, 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:20.840 I've always interpreted as a kind of message. While the 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:24.719 agency might not be taking ownership of Flavio, there's someone 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:31.359 high up inside the CIA who's basically acknowledging, Hey, there 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:34.040 might be something to Flavio's story. 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:39.119 Those transcripts in that call I think was saving my life. 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:45.840 Flavio takes this theory further. He thinks the CIA knows 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:51.600 he's innocent, but the agency is hamstrung, so in Flavia's view, 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:54.480 agents release the recordings as a way of helping him 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:59.640 and his case. It's the best they can do. 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:04.240 Only obligation from CAA was just the moral obligation tours 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:08.040 to me because they see me in the situation which 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.040 I end up. You know, they say, you know what, 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:13.840 probably he did his part less whatever he said he didn't. 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:14.440 Let's prove. 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:21.200 But I can't prove this. All of this is speculation. 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:25.120 The CIA declined to make anyone available for an interview 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:29.880 and refused to comment about Flavio's case. For their part, 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:33.040 prosecutors don't appear to see any message from the CIA's 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:41.960 release of the recordings. Instead, they double down on Flavio. Flavio, Christian, 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.600 and Massimo are detained at the Metropolitan Correctional Center, a 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:49.119 sand colored high rise federal detention facility in Lower Manhattan 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:51.480 that looks like it popped out of the pages of 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:55.960 a dystopian comic book. Several famous people have been placed 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.640 behind bars here, including mobster John Gotti and Ponti scheme 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:03.439 artist Bernie made off. This is also the facility in 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:07.480 which Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide while facing child sex trafficking charges. 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:12.560 Inside the jail, Christian immediately cuts a deal to cooperate 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:18.000 with the Justice Department, and then, amazingly, Christian and Massimo 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:22.560 are assigned to the same cell. Massimo at the time 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:24.119 is distraught. 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:26.600 He was often crying. 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:32.800 That's what Christian witnesses. Inside the cell, Massimo curled up 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:38.040 in the corner sobbing. Christian suggests to Massimo that there's 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:40.640 something he can do to get out of this situation. 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:45.160 I told him that I signed a cooperation agreement. 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:49.760 And Massimo confirms that he was telling me that he 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:55.439 was cooperating. Christian encourages Massimo to join him in cooperating 0:21:55.440 --> 0:22:05.200 with the government. Around this time, Flavio approaches Massimo in detention. 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:08.520 As I was passing by the library. He saw me 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:11.720 and he ran after me as I was going towards 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:15.760 the infirmary, and he said, Massimo, I want to talk 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:19.399 to you one minute, and I told him, tell me, 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:24.840 what do you want, Massimo. We have to cooperate, our 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:26.399 lawyers have to cooperate. 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:31.000 Flavio tells Massimo about the CIA, cause. 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:34.840 He told me that he was a cooperator with the CIA. 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:41.320 Massimo wouldn't commit to anything. Remember, Flavio is the guy 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:44.520 who lord on the Montenegro to be arrested. So the 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:49.080 next month Flavio makes an indirect appeal and. 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:51.800 He made by the name of Ash who worked in 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:54.439 the library, told me that he had a message for 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:58.760 me on behalf of Flavio Giorgesco. He was advising me 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:02.200 to cooperate with him, not to accept any deal if 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:04.600 it were to be offered to me, and not to 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.840 accept or cooperate with the government if it were to 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:10.479 be offered to me, and not to forget that I 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:13.600 was the father of three children and that only my 0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:16.359 working together with them I could go back home. 0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:22.880 In Massimo's view, Flavio's message is unambiguous. 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:24.600 A clear intimidation. 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:33.040 Flavio acknowledges that he asked another Detaine to deliver a 0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:36.880 message to Massimo, but he denies it was any kind 0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:41.159 of threat. Flavio says he was appealing to Massimo's desire 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:44.800 to be reunited with his family, and he believed joining 0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:48.159 forces and a defense strategy was the best approach for 0:23:48.280 --> 0:23:52.240 both of them. He says, Masimo framed it as intimidation 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:54.639 to make him look bad and. 0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:57.040 Much more understanding because I tell him, Man, I worked 0:23:57.040 --> 0:23:59.760 for CAA, I helped them out. You didn't do anything wrong. 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:03.120 I didn't elect you mass Most to get some money, 0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:05.280 and I didn't let him to get money from Juan. 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:07.520 I didn't compromise him in any wish to put him 0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:09.800 in prison. And I said, man, you didn't do anything wrong. 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:12.680 Just let me do the work and we present the facts, 0:24:12.680 --> 0:24:14.920 the evidence. We're gonna walk away. We're gonna be okay, 0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:16.000 don't worry. It be strong. 0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:21.560 But Massimo doesn't go along with Flavio's proposal. He takes 0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:27.399 christians advice and sides with federal prosecutors. Massimo signs an 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:31.879 agreement to plead guilty and testify against Flavio in exchange 0:24:32.000 --> 0:24:37.000 for leniency at sentencing, and in the spring of twenty sixteen, 0:24:38.040 --> 0:24:46.040 the Justice Department puts Flavio on trial. That's after the break. 0:25:00.960 --> 0:25:05.720 The government's case winds up being solely focused on Flavio. 0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:11.440 He's the only one on trial. Both Christian and Massimo 0:25:11.800 --> 0:25:16.600 agree to plead guilty and testify against Flavio. The words 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:19.840 you've heard from Christian and Massimo read by actors. 0:25:20.560 --> 0:25:24.240 I was reading for Christian and I was reading for Massimo. 0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:30.399 Come verbatim from this trial. None of the others involved 0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:34.119 in the case, including Massimo's German contact who arranged for 0:25:34.160 --> 0:25:38.600 the end user certificate, or Peter man Chukov, the Bulgarian 0:25:38.600 --> 0:25:42.520 who owned the weapons factory, none of these people are 0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:50.479 charged criminally or compelled to testify, and nothing happens with 0:25:50.680 --> 0:25:54.639 the other George Escu Andy on. 0:25:56.600 --> 0:25:57.480 You're Killing. 0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:01.760 Andy. 0:26:01.800 --> 0:26:05.600 Georgescu was on hours of DEA recordings and he played 0:26:05.600 --> 0:26:08.800 an integral role in connecting Juan with Flavio. 0:26:09.840 --> 0:26:10.520 Im record. 0:26:12.960 --> 0:26:15.680 So then maybe he's a pion or something, but he's. 0:26:15.560 --> 0:26:18.040 Supposed to maybe he's sleeping. 0:26:18.359 --> 0:26:22.280 Why isn't Andy charged. It's a question that has long 0:26:22.320 --> 0:26:27.000 frustrated me because I can't get answers. Over the years. 0:26:27.080 --> 0:26:29.760 I called Andy and sent him emails and letters. I 0:26:29.760 --> 0:26:31.800 even left a note at his office near Los Angeles. 0:26:32.520 --> 0:26:37.160 He never responded, and in twenty twenty Andy passed away 0:26:37.400 --> 0:26:43.640 from lung cancer. Flavio's theory is that Andy was actually 0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:49.400 an informant for the FBI, something the DEA didn't know 0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:53.960 during their investigation. So when the arrests happened. According to 0:26:54.000 --> 0:26:58.600 Flavio's theory, the FBI protects Andy and prevents his prosecution. 0:27:00.280 --> 0:27:05.320 If that's true, man, three informants thinking they're working for 0:27:05.480 --> 0:27:13.280 three agencies in one enormous Clusterfuck, You're certain that that 0:27:13.320 --> 0:27:15.240 Andy was working as an informant? 0:27:15.920 --> 0:27:17.200 Yeah, yeah, definitely. 0:27:18.480 --> 0:27:23.320 Flavio has no evidence to support this claim, and neither 0:27:23.359 --> 0:27:26.439 do I, but I have to admit that it's the 0:27:26.440 --> 0:27:30.720 most plausible explanation for why Andy is neither charged nor 0:27:30.800 --> 0:27:34.920 call to testify in the case. Flavio has zero doubt 0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:39.840 that Andy was a snitch and that someone powerful protected him. 0:27:41.080 --> 0:27:42.840 Did you ever get proof of that or you just 0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:45.320 feel that, given the circumstances he had to have been. 0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:49.000 I was one time. I mean, he's a office and 0:27:49.119 --> 0:27:54.080 the IFBA agents came over there, and you know, he 0:27:54.200 --> 0:27:57.919 was showing so much arrogance and so much power. You 0:27:58.000 --> 0:28:00.720 cannot do that if you don't have book back up. 0:28:01.640 --> 0:28:06.160 It's impossible to verify Flavio's claim there, and I've accepted 0:28:06.160 --> 0:28:08.400 that I won't find the answers about Andy. George Escu 0:28:08.960 --> 0:28:14.800 at least not anytime soon. But there is one other 0:28:15.280 --> 0:28:19.480 George Escu Andre, Flavio's wife. 0:28:20.440 --> 0:28:23.960 Hello Flo, She. 0:28:26.359 --> 0:28:26.919 Three o'clock. 0:28:27.960 --> 0:28:31.919 Andre is captured only briefly on the DEA's recordings. She 0:28:32.040 --> 0:28:35.840 answers one of Wan's calls to Flavio in September twenty fourteen. 0:28:36.840 --> 0:28:44.000 Yeah, okay, okay, thank you very much. I APPRESHI okay. 0:28:43.400 --> 0:28:48.760 Andra says she had no idea what Flavio was up 0:28:48.800 --> 0:28:53.080 to during the DEA sting. Flavio didn't tell her anything, 0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:56.720 and she assumed his travels with Christian and Massimo were 0:28:57.720 --> 0:29:03.480 business as usual, just Flavia being Flavio. But after Flavio's extradition, 0:29:03.840 --> 0:29:06.480 Andre moves to New York and helps him mount to defense, 0:29:07.480 --> 0:29:10.400 never doubting her husband's story that he was working with 0:29:10.440 --> 0:29:16.880 the CIA. In May twenty sixteen, just before Flavio's trial 0:29:16.920 --> 0:29:21.120