1 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: Fuck him. 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 2: That's what Flavio says as he hangs up the phone 3 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 2: with Massimo Romagnoli. Fuck him. After DEA agent's arrests Flavio, 4 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 2: he agrees to help them lure Massimo to Montenegro. 5 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 3: He told me that the client had brought the money 6 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 3: to Montenegro. 7 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 2: Here's Massimo, or rather the voice actor who's been reading 8 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 2: Massimo's court testimony. 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 3: And so we found an agreement so that I would 10 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 3: also go to Montenegro to collect the money. I informed 11 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 3: him that I found a ticket for Podgorica, Montenegro, and 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 3: we would meet there. 13 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: The next morning. Massimo flies into Montenegro. 14 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 3: Right after passport control, I was arrested by the police. 15 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 2: US authorities announced the arrests of Flavior Georgescu, Christian Vntilla, 16 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 2: and Massimo Romagnoli on charges of conspiring to provide material 17 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 2: support to terrorists. The terrorists in this case were Juan 18 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 2: and the other FARC guys, who were, of course not 19 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 2: really terrorists but DEA informants. Under federal conspiracy law, a 20 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 2: defendant doesn't have to help actual terrorists. The defendant just 21 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 2: needs to think he's helping terrorists. Well, the arrest don't 22 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 2: get much attention in the US. They're big news in Romania. 23 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 4: As you are. Virgil, Flavio, Giorgesco farc Sant. 24 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: And in Italy. Flavio, Christian and Massimo are all about 25 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 2: to be extradited to America to face federal criminal charges. 26 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 2: If convicted, all three men could spend the rest of 27 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 2: their lives in prison. I'm Trevor Aronson from Western Sound 28 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 2: and iHeart Podcast. This is Alphabet Boys, Episode nine. Tomorrow, 29 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 2: I'm going to rob the bank. Flavio, Christian and Massimo 30 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 2: are thrown into holding cells in Montenegro until American officials 31 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: can sort out their extradition to New York. At first, 32 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 2: Flavio isn't too concerned about any of this. He could 33 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: have persuaded the DEA guys who arrested him that he's 34 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: working with the CIA, but he helped them lure Massimo 35 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 2: to Montenegro anyway, And besides, Flavia figures the DEA and 36 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: the Justice Department will talk to their counterparts at the 37 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 2: CIA and everything will be sorted out soon enough. They'll 38 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 2: all realize that Flavio's on their team. How else could 39 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 2: they explain the call to the CIA. 40 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 4: In twenty twelve, good afternoon. 41 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 3: How can I help you? 42 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: Hi, I reminded me, and I was. 43 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 5: Born in Roma. 44 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: Flavio, as you know, now tells the CIA agents everything 45 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 2: about Andy, about Wan, about the arms deal, about the 46 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 2: whole crime before he actually commits it. 47 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: He's like, U core Rhino nine one. You let them know. Tomorrow, 48 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna rob the bank in fifth Avenue City Bank 49 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: in the corner. This is my social security, my name, 50 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: my plates on the car, my V number, and I 51 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: have this shotgun and I have this one will be 52 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: nine o'clock. You're gonna go tomorrow to rob that bank. 53 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: You have to be nuts, totally nuts. 54 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 2: Flavio's analogy works. It's hard to argue that it doesn't. Honestly, 55 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 2: who would be crazy enough to call the police tell 56 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: them the entire plan to rob a bank and then 57 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: go rob that bank. That's essentially what Flavio did, but 58 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 2: with a much more serious crime. His was an international 59 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 2: arms deal worth millions of dollars and involving the FARC 60 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 2: at the time, a US designated foreign terrorist organization. To 61 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 2: Flavio in the immediate days after his arrest, this all 62 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 2: just seems like a temporary misunderstanding. The CIA didn't know 63 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 2: what the DEA was doing, and neither the CIA nor 64 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: the DEA knows about Flavio's previous work for the FBI, 65 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 2: So he's stuck temporarily in the muck of bureaucracy, but 66 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 2: eventually he thinks the FEDS will figure it out. We're 67 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: talking about Americans here. 68 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 4: Well. 69 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 2: Locked up in Montenegro, Flavio says he receives several visits 70 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 2: from US officials. They're with the State Department, or so 71 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 2: they say. 72 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 1: They was keep coming from Washington to interview me and 73 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: the ward them from that prison. He was asking me 74 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: who you are and I said nobody. I'm just a 75 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: consulting businessman. And he said, no, you are not a 76 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: consulting businessman. Because these people they come with a private 77 00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: JIT and it's the State Department private JIT and sometimes 78 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: as they come escorted by US military jets, as I 79 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: don't know who they are, and they came over there 80 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 1: for four or five times. I give them all the 81 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 1: information about arms, laundry and everything, and they let me 82 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 1: burn over there like an animal. 83 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 2: By left them over there like an animal. Flavio is 84 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 2: referring to the conditions of a cell in Montenegro restayed 85 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 2: for a little more than two months during the winter 86 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 2: of twenty fifteen. 87 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: I was physically and shically torture over there. Like they 88 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: opened the window from the cell and they keep it 89 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: open day and night. There was so much snow outside, 90 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: and I couldn't close it because it was so high, 91 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: and I couldn't sleep. I couldn't do anything, and they 92 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: keep the lights on all the time, and so much 93 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: noise over there. I couldn't sleep. And when I was 94 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: trying to use the bedroom one time, when I got there, 95 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: I was seeing on the toilet and a rat jump 96 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: from the toilet on my butt. I started to scream 97 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: so bad, and they came inside with a broomsick and 98 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: they killed a rat over there in the toilet. They 99 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: break the toilet to the ceramics toilet and the bailift. 100 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 2: To this day, Flavia tells me he can't sit on 101 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 2: a toilet. He has to put his feet on a 102 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 2: seat and squat so we can always keep an eye 103 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 2: on the water below him. Another rat's never going to 104 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 2: surprise him. Flavio says he couldn't understand why all this 105 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 2: was happening to him, A good man thrown into a cold, 106 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: dark cell in Eastern Europe. I've mentioned already that I 107 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 2: struggle to determine what's true in Flavia's story. I really do. 108 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 2: I find myself wanting to believe his claim that he 109 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 2: called the CIA because he felt a duty to help 110 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 2: see something say something Flavio believed. And certainly there's evidence 111 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 2: that appears to support this. Why else, as just one example, 112 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 2: would Flavio have agreed to Lord Massimo to Montenegro no 113 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 2: strings attached. The most reasonable explanation to me is that 114 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 2: Flavio believed he was on the same team as the DEA. 115 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 2: But then there's something else that throws me to the 116 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 2: other side questioning Flavio's story, and that is Christian Venttilla's 117 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 2: account of what happens next. In late February twenty fifteen, 118 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 2: following their detention in Montenegro, Flavio, Christian, and Massimo are 119 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: flown to New York on a private jet. Flavio is 120 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: seated next to Christian for the eight hour trip. 121 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 6: Told me that previously, during the activity in this deal, 122 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 6: he called the CIA and informed them about this activity. 123 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 2: This is Christian from escort testimony. 124 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 6: He told me that the CIA's answer was not to 125 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 6: get implicated and mind his own business. And he also 126 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 6: told me that when we got arrested, he told the 127 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 6: agent who arrested us the same thing. So during the 128 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 6: eight hours he told me that based on this, we 129 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 6: should build a story that we weren't trying to do 130 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 6: a deal with them. We were just trying to collect 131 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 6: information to give it to the government so we can 132 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 6: use it as a defense. 133 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 2: Christian claims that Flavio on the plane tells him that 134 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 2: he knew the CIA didn't want him to get involved. 135 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 2: Christian suggests that Flavio's intent was to use the CIA 136 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 2: call as a cover store in case he ever got caught. 137 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 2: But christian story is suspicious too, because apparently he doesn't 138 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 2: know that the CIA call is ambiguous. There are no 139 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: clear cut don't do anything on this instructions from the 140 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 2: CIA on the recordings. The call didn't happen the way 141 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 2: Christian claims Flavio described it. So if what Christian is 142 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 2: saying is true, why would Flavio say this. It doesn't 143 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:43,119 Speaker 2: really make sense. So Christian's claim just raises more questions. Questions. 144 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,839 Speaker 2: I can't ask Christian because you won't talk to me. 145 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 6: I don't want to do this thing, and I only 146 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 6: want to tell the truth. And actually that's what I 147 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 6: told the agents in the plane. 148 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 2: In any case, Christian refuses to go along with Flavio's 149 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 2: plan to sink their stories part of a joint defense. 150 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 6: He told me, if I don't agree to work with 151 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 6: him in this way, he should. I should help him too, 152 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 6: because he worked previously with higher agency than DEA, and 153 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 6: his wife is running around trying to get in touch 154 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 6: with those agencies. That agency he worked for is going 155 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 6: to save him. 156 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 2: Christian is referring to the FBI. Flavio tells Christian that 157 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 2: not only had he called the CIA, but that he 158 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 2: had previously worked for the FBI, an agency with a 159 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 2: much bigger stick than the DEA has, and that the 160 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 2: FBI would help him out of this jam. Flavio tells 161 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 2: Christian as they're on the flight that his wife Andre 162 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 2: is burning up the phones as they speak, trying to 163 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 2: enlist the FBI's help, and that last part I can 164 00:11:54,640 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 2: say with certainty that part's true. 165 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 7: I was working for the Attorney Journal's office in New Mexico, 166 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 7: and I get a phone call from Flavio's wife. 167 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 2: This is Mark Pinto, the FBI agent who is Flavio's 168 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 2: handler in Las Vegas. By this time, Mar's left the bureau. 169 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 2: He hasn't seen or talked to Flavio in a decade, 170 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 2: and he doesn't even know that Flavio is now married. 171 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 7: I have a different telephone number, and Flavio didn't have 172 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 7: a wife, so I'm institutionally paranoid, like, I can't talk 173 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 7: to you. And she goes on and she's pleading, and 174 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,079 Speaker 7: I said, I'll have to think about this. 175 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 2: Right after that call, Mark, it's another from the US 176 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 2: Attorney's office in New York. They want to talk to 177 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 2: him about Flavio, and. 178 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 7: I'm like, I don't want to talk about Flavio. I 179 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 7: don't want to talk about the old days. I don't 180 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 7: want to talk about anything. I'm out. I'm out. I 181 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,599 Speaker 7: don't want my house burned down for whatever reasons, or 182 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 7: I don't want the ire of the US government. And 183 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 7: he goes well, the US considers him a terrorist, and like, 184 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 7: all the more reason I don't want to be the 185 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 7: former FBI agent that's taking the stand in defense of 186 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 7: a terrorist in some dea case because I don't have 187 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 7: any of the details and I haven't seen Flavio in 188 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 7: forever in a day, and they asked my opinion, I'm like, well, 189 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 7: my opinion is if it's the same Flavio and nothing's 190 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 7: drastically changed in his life, he got railroaded. But that's 191 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 7: my opinion, my uninformed opinion. 192 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 2: But as any good investigator would be, Marx intrigued. He 193 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 2: wants to know more, so he flies to New York 194 00:13:53,840 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 2: to meet with the prosecutors more after the break, Mark Pinto, 195 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 2: Flavio's former FBI handler in Las Vegas, meets with the 196 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 2: prosecutors assigned to Flavio's case. They lay out the whole case, 197 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 2: how Flavio recruited Christian and Massimo and attempted to sell 198 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 2: weapons to Wan and his colleagues, who Flavio believed were 199 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 2: agents for the FARC in Colombia. The prosecutors tell Mark 200 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 2: about Flavio's call to the CIA and claim it was 201 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 2: nothing more than Flavio creating a cover in case he 202 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 2: was caught. 203 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 7: And when they laid out everything, my opinion hadn't changed. 204 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 7: The Flavio was the same that he loves. The United 205 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 7: States would have done anything for him. He would have 206 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 7: sacrificed his life this country for what it stands for. 207 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 2: So you think it's credible the story that he says 208 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 2: he called the CIA to not to I mean, the 209 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 2: government says that was a cover right, but Flavio has 210 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 2: maintained that he really thought he was reporting a crime 211 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 2: and was helping the US government. 212 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 7: So you're putting me in a tough position as you 213 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 7: sit there with your arms crossed the way for me 214 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 7: to answer truthfully because I don't want to go contrary 215 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 7: because I don't know what the prosecuting attorneys know, not really. 216 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 7: And I was afraid when I heard that Flavio was 217 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 7: going to be locked away forever and the key thrown away, 218 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 7: because they're pretty serious charges. And I felt terrible because 219 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 7: there's nothing I can do about it. To be quite honest, 220 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:53,359 Speaker 7: there's nothing I can do about it without risking my lifestyle, 221 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 7: in my wife's lifestyle. 222 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 2: What Mark means here is that he was fired from 223 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 2: the FBI. Remember when Flavio first met his handlers, he 224 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 2: brought some bottles of wine as a gift, and there 225 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: was a big argument until Mark agreed to accept the wine. 226 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 2: That was against FBI policy. Mark's willingness to break the 227 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 2: FBI's small administrative rules eventually caught up with him, costing 228 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 2: him his job. He considers testifying in Flavio's trial to 229 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: describe how Flavio worked with the Bureau in Vegas and 230 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 2: how that might help explain his behavior with the CIA, 231 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 2: But in the end Mark chooses not to come forward, 232 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 2: fearing that he would open himself up to questions. But 233 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 2: as FBI career, it's a decision that years later haunts Mark. 234 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 7: I'm retired, and what I do in retirement is I 235 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 7: take my file the church and I go to Bible study, 236 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 7: and I study the Bible, gnostic exegies of Paul and 237 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 7: this kind of esoteric stuff they give people headaches that 238 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 7: you drone on and on about academically that no one 239 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 7: cares about. And what's common through all that is it's 240 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 7: like people shouldn't be prosecuted unjustly. And I found myself 241 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 7: standing outside with a lot of guilt on my shoulders 242 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 7: because I'm not the man I'd like to be. And 243 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 7: it's easy to do the right thing when it doesn't 244 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 7: cost you everything. 245 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 2: The end result of all this is that Flavio is 246 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 2: on his own facing trial. Flavio doesn't get help from 247 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 2: Mark or any one at the FBI. The bureau does 248 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 2: the bare minimum handing over internal reports that support Flavio's 249 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 2: claims of having been an informant, but the FBI does 250 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 2: not offer anyone to testify about Flavio's substantial cooperation. But 251 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 2: Flavio does get help from an unlikely group of FEDS. 252 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 2: The CIA. Remarkably, and I want to emphasize how unusual 253 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 2: this is, the CIA turns over two recordings the calls 254 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 2: from twenty twelve between Flavio and the agents. This is 255 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 2: remarkable because the CIA rarely gets involved in US criminal prosecutions. 256 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 2: The agency is a black hole, very little light escapes. 257 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 2: The CIA could have reported that it didn't have recordings 258 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 2: of the calls Flavio claims made, and that would have 259 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 2: been the end of it. No one would have had 260 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 2: the access and authority to prove the CIA wrong. So 261 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 2: that fact that the CIA turns over the recordings voluntarily, 262 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 2: I've always interpreted as a kind of message. While the 263 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,719 Speaker 2: agency might not be taking ownership of Flavio, there's someone 264 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 2: high up inside the CIA who's basically acknowledging, Hey, there 265 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 2: might be something to Flavio's story. 266 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: Those transcripts in that call I think was saving my life. 267 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 2: Flavio takes this theory further. He thinks the CIA knows 268 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 2: he's innocent, but the agency is hamstrung, so in Flavia's view, 269 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 2: agents release the recordings as a way of helping him 270 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 2: and his case. It's the best they can do. 271 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: Only obligation from CAA was just the moral obligation tours 272 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: to me because they see me in the situation which 273 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: I end up. You know, they say, you know what, 274 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: probably he did his part less whatever he said he didn't. 275 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 1: Let's prove. 276 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 2: But I can't prove this. All of this is speculation. 277 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,120 Speaker 2: The CIA declined to make anyone available for an interview 278 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 2: and refused to comment about Flavio's case. For their part, 279 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 2: prosecutors don't appear to see any message from the CIA's 280 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 2: release of the recordings. Instead, they double down on Flavio. Flavio, Christian, 281 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 2: and Massimo are detained at the Metropolitan Correctional Center, a 282 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 2: sand colored high rise federal detention facility in Lower Manhattan 283 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 2: that looks like it popped out of the pages of 284 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 2: a dystopian comic book. Several famous people have been placed 285 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 2: behind bars here, including mobster John Gotti and Ponti scheme 286 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 2: artist Bernie made off. This is also the facility in 287 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 2: which Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide while facing child sex trafficking charges. 288 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 2: Inside the jail, Christian immediately cuts a deal to cooperate 289 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 2: with the Justice Department, and then, amazingly, Christian and Massimo 290 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 2: are assigned to the same cell. Massimo at the time 291 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 2: is distraught. 292 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 3: He was often crying. 293 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 2: That's what Christian witnesses. Inside the cell, Massimo curled up 294 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 2: in the corner sobbing. Christian suggests to Massimo that there's 295 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 2: something he can do to get out of this situation. 296 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 6: I told him that I signed a cooperation agreement. 297 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 2: And Massimo confirms that he was telling me that he 298 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 2: was cooperating. Christian encourages Massimo to join him in cooperating 299 00:21:55,440 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 2: with the government. Around this time, Flavio approaches Massimo in detention. 300 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 3: As I was passing by the library. He saw me 301 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 3: and he ran after me as I was going towards 302 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 3: the infirmary, and he said, Massimo, I want to talk 303 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 3: to you one minute, and I told him, tell me, 304 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 3: what do you want, Massimo. We have to cooperate, our 305 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 3: lawyers have to cooperate. 306 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 2: Flavio tells Massimo about the CIA, cause. 307 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 3: He told me that he was a cooperator with the CIA. 308 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 2: Massimo wouldn't commit to anything. Remember, Flavio is the guy 309 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 2: who lord on the Montenegro to be arrested. So the 310 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 2: next month Flavio makes an indirect appeal and. 311 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 3: He made by the name of Ash who worked in 312 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 3: the library, told me that he had a message for 313 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 3: me on behalf of Flavio Giorgesco. He was advising me 314 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 3: to cooperate with him, not to accept any deal if 315 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 3: it were to be offered to me, and not to 316 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 3: accept or cooperate with the government if it were to 317 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,479 Speaker 3: be offered to me, and not to forget that I 318 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 3: was the father of three children and that only my 319 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 3: working together with them I could go back home. 320 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:22,880 Speaker 2: In Massimo's view, Flavio's message is unambiguous. 321 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 3: A clear intimidation. 322 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 2: Flavio acknowledges that he asked another Detaine to deliver a 323 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 2: message to Massimo, but he denies it was any kind 324 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 2: of threat. Flavio says he was appealing to Massimo's desire 325 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 2: to be reunited with his family, and he believed joining 326 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 2: forces and a defense strategy was the best approach for 327 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 2: both of them. He says, Masimo framed it as intimidation 328 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 2: to make him look bad and. 329 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: Much more understanding because I tell him, Man, I worked 330 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: for CAA, I helped them out. You didn't do anything wrong. 331 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 1: I didn't elect you mass Most to get some money, 332 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: and I didn't let him to get money from Juan. 333 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: I didn't compromise him in any wish to put him 334 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: in prison. And I said, man, you didn't do anything wrong. 335 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: Just let me do the work and we present the facts, 336 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: the evidence. We're gonna walk away. We're gonna be okay, 337 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: don't worry. It be strong. 338 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 2: But Massimo doesn't go along with Flavio's proposal. He takes 339 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 2: christians advice and sides with federal prosecutors. Massimo signs an 340 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 2: agreement to plead guilty and testify against Flavio in exchange 341 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 2: for leniency at sentencing, and in the spring of twenty sixteen, 342 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 2: the Justice Department puts Flavio on trial. That's after the break. 343 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 2: The government's case winds up being solely focused on Flavio. 344 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 2: He's the only one on trial. Both Christian and Massimo 345 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 2: agree to plead guilty and testify against Flavio. The words 346 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 2: you've heard from Christian and Massimo read by actors. 347 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 3: I was reading for Christian and I was reading for Massimo. 348 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 2: Come verbatim from this trial. None of the others involved 349 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 2: in the case, including Massimo's German contact who arranged for 350 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 2: the end user certificate, or Peter man Chukov, the Bulgarian 351 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 2: who owned the weapons factory, none of these people are 352 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:50,479 Speaker 2: charged criminally or compelled to testify, and nothing happens with 353 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 2: the other George Escu Andy on. 354 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 5: You're Killing. 355 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: Andy. 356 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 2: Georgescu was on hours of DEA recordings and he played 357 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 2: an integral role in connecting Juan with Flavio. 358 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: Im record. 359 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 5: So then maybe he's a pion or something, but he's. 360 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 6: Supposed to maybe he's sleeping. 361 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 2: Why isn't Andy charged. It's a question that has long 362 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 2: frustrated me because I can't get answers. Over the years. 363 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 2: I called Andy and sent him emails and letters. I 364 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 2: even left a note at his office near Los Angeles. 365 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 2: He never responded, and in twenty twenty Andy passed away 366 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:43,640 Speaker 2: from lung cancer. Flavio's theory is that Andy was actually 367 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 2: an informant for the FBI, something the DEA didn't know 368 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 2: during their investigation. So when the arrests happened. According to 369 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 2: Flavio's theory, the FBI protects Andy and prevents his prosecution. 370 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 2: If that's true, man, three informants thinking they're working for 371 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 2: three agencies in one enormous Clusterfuck, You're certain that that 372 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 2: Andy was working as an informant? 373 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, definitely. 374 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 2: Flavio has no evidence to support this claim, and neither 375 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 2: do I, but I have to admit that it's the 376 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 2: most plausible explanation for why Andy is neither charged nor 377 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 2: call to testify in the case. Flavio has zero doubt 378 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 2: that Andy was a snitch and that someone powerful protected him. 379 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 2: Did you ever get proof of that or you just 380 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 2: feel that, given the circumstances he had to have been. 381 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: I was one time. I mean, he's a office and 382 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: the IFBA agents came over there, and you know, he 383 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 1: was showing so much arrogance and so much power. You 384 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: cannot do that if you don't have book back up. 385 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 2: It's impossible to verify Flavio's claim there, and I've accepted 386 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 2: that I won't find the answers about Andy. George Escu 387 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 2: at least not anytime soon. But there is one other 388 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 2: George Escu Andre, Flavio's wife. 389 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: Hello Flo, She. 390 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 6: Three o'clock. 391 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,919 Speaker 2: Andre is captured only briefly on the DEA's recordings. She 392 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 2: answers one of Wan's calls to Flavio in September twenty fourteen. 393 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, thank you very much. I APPRESHI okay. 394 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 2: Andra says she had no idea what Flavio was up 395 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 2: to during the DEA sting. Flavio didn't tell her anything, 396 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 2: and she assumed his travels with Christian and Massimo were 397 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 2: business as usual, just Flavia being Flavio. But after Flavio's extradition, 398 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 2: Andre moves to New York and helps him mount to defense, 399 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 2: never doubting her husband's story that he was working with 400 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 2: the CIA. In May twenty sixteen, just before Flavio's trial 401 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 2: is scheduled to begin, Andre sends me an email. The 402 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 2: main reason for this email, Andre writes, is that I 403 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 2: want to reveal the outrageous conduct of the US government 404 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 2: and how a US citizen is treated after he helped 405 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 2: this country so many times. Andre also reaches out to 406 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 2: my colleague Mortaza Hussein. He and I write about Flavio's 407 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,479 Speaker 2: case for the Intercept. In twenty sixteen, and Mortaza attends 408 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 2: Flavio's trial in Manhattan. 409 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 4: There was a deep sense of ambiguity around this entire 410 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 4: case from beginning to end. 411 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 2: This is Mortaza Hussein. 412 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 4: So there was clearly a a kernel of doubt on 413 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 4: both sides, and it just seemed to come down in 414 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 4: the end to which doubt you saw as stronger. 415 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 2: At trial, Christian and Massimo both testify against Flavio as 416 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 2: part of their deals for leniency, and they both claim 417 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 2: that Flavio was the mastermind of the weapons deal and 418 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 2: suggests that Flavio's calls with the CIA were nothing more 419 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 2: than an insurance policy, a cover if he was ever caught. Flavio, 420 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 2: attempting to counter that narrative, takes the stand in his 421 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,719 Speaker 2: own defense. His lawyer asked him, do you regret what 422 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 2: you did? 423 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 4: No? 424 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 2: Never, and I will do it again. Flavio answers. What 425 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 2: he means is that he doesn't regret trying to help 426 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 2: the US government. If I walk, I will do it again. 427 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 2: Flavio says he was. 428 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 4: Very insistent and emotional. Actually understand that. Yeah, he said, 429 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 4: the entire time, I was doing this for the benef 430 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 4: of the United States. I love America. I want to 431 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 4: do something to help America. So on the stand, he 432 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 4: very much appealed to his own patriotism and love for 433 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 4: the United States, and I thought appealed to the court 434 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 4: and to the jury as well too on that score. 435 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 4: And he seemed questions here, but there was no real 436 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 4: way of substantiating it in great detail, because the only 437 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 4: evidence that they really existed that this is what he 438 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 4: was thinking was the one call he made to the 439 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 4: CIA to try to report what was happening when he 440 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 4: was being entrapped. So they played that tape in court. 441 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: His guns. They don't go in right to say they 442 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: go to Columbia. No, No, you want me to day. 443 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 5: I understand what you're go ahead and passing to us, 444 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 5: and I do appreciate why you're telling us. It's definitely 445 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 5: something that, if we can verify, would be of interest 446 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 5: to the agency to be aware of. 447 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 4: And that was the crux of his defense. I think 448 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 4: it was enough to raise doubt about it, So it 449 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 4: was with some doubt. 450 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 2: During cross examination, the prosecutor Elon Graf suggests that some 451 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 2: of Flavio's behavior during the weapons deal, such as using 452 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 2: encrypted messaging apps, indicated that he was trying to hide 453 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 2: what he was doing from the CIA. Flavio raises his 454 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 2: voice in protest. Bring the reports, Flavio barks back, referring 455 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 2: to the transcripts of his calls with the CIA. You 456 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 2: have the very report, mister Graff. Why don't you bring 457 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 2: the report in front of the jury and show them. 458 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 2: Flavio reminds the jury that he had told the CIA 459 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 2: about the entire crime before it happened. 460 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 4: And he got quite upset. He got quite emotional, but 461 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 4: I remember he yelled a bit and use, you know, 462 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 4: fighting for his life. 463 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 2: On May twenty fifth, twenty sixteen, the jury comes back 464 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 2: with a verdict guilty. During Flavio's trial, I asked the 465 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 2: DEA for a comment. A spokesman declined to comment specifically 466 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 2: on Flavio's case, but defended the agency's narco terrorism stings 467 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 2: in general. Quote, we go after folks that are drug traffickers, 468 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 2: arms traffickers, whatever the case may be. They are predisposed 469 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 2: to criminal acts. All we do is allow the means 470 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 2: to give them the opportunity to commit these crimes they 471 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 2: would otherwise commit without us. These defendants have every opportunity 472 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 2: to walk away. On December two, twenty sixteen, Flavio returns 473 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 2: to court for his sentencing hearing. US District Judge Ronnie 474 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 2: Abrams offers Flavio an opportunity to make a statement before 475 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 2: he's sentenced. Flavio faces a maximum penalty of life in prison. 476 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 2: My actions were to help the United States government and 477 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 2: the citizens of the United States, Flavio tells the judge. 478 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:11,320 Speaker 2: I have always maintained my innocence. Judge Abrahms sentences Flavio 479 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,439 Speaker 2: to ten years in prison, a fraction of the life 480 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 2: sentence she could have given him, and what seems like 481 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,239 Speaker 2: an acknowledgment of ambiguities, if not some doubts in the 482 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 2: government's case. So Flavio is sent to a prison in Maryland. 483 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 5: This college from an inmate at a prison, and that's 484 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 5: when Flavio and I start talking. 485 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 2: This goes on sporadically for a few years, calls like 486 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 2: this one, until Flavio is released in the summer of 487 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two to a halfway house in New York, 488 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 2: where Flavio and I finally meet in person. 489 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: You know what, I pray every night to somebody to 490 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: come to me, shake my hand, and said it was 491 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: a misunderstanding. He's not your fault, is not our. 492 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:17,720 Speaker 2: Fourth that's in the next episode. This is up in arms, 493 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 2: season two of Alphabet Boys. Alphabet Boys is a production 494 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 2: of Western Sound and iHeart Podcasts. The show is reported, 495 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 2: written and hosted by me, Trevor Aaronson. For more information 496 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 2: about this series or to drop us a tip, head 497 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 2: to our website Alphabet Boys dot xyz. You can contact 498 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,760 Speaker 2: me on Twitter or Instagram at Trevor Aaronson. The show's 499 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,280 Speaker 2: instagram is alphabet Boys dot pod. If you're enjoying Alphabet Boys, 500 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 2: tell your friends about the show. Personal recommendations are the 501 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,320 Speaker 2: best recommendations. And if you want to see an illegal 502 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 2: armsteel from the inside again, it's alphabet boy xyz. You'll 503 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 2: find undercover recordings and documents related to Flavio's case. Finally, 504 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 2: you can help us ride the algorithms by leaving a 505 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,879 Speaker 2: rating or review on your favorite podcast app that helps 506 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,280 Speaker 2: other people find us. And thanks for listening.