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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Eric Adams dropping out of the mayor race in New

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Speaker 2: York City.

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Speaker 4: He is the current mayor.

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Speaker 2: As you know, he has been enmeshed in so many

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Speaker 2: corruption scandals I can no longer keep track. He was indicted,

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Speaker 2: then he was unindicted by the Trump administration and what

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Speaker 2: appeared to be a corrupt quid pro quo. His approval

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Speaker 2: rating was like the lowest in mayoral history in New

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Speaker 2: York City.

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Speaker 4: He was polling incredibly poorly.

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Speaker 2: He didn't even try to win the Democratic primary, just

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Speaker 2: decided he was going to run on these like a

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Speaker 2: separate party line, which is allowed for in New York City.

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Speaker 2: In any case, after much rumor and speculation, he is

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Speaker 2: officially dropping out. Let's take a listen to a little

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Speaker 2: bit of his announcement.

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Speaker 5: Who would have thought that a kid from South Jamaica, Queens,

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Speaker 5: growing up with learning disabilities could one day become the

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Speaker 5: mayor of the greatest city in the world. Only in

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Speaker 5: America can his story like this be told. It's not

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Speaker 5: always easy to see the impact of good policy in

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Speaker 5: just three years. Also knows some remain unsure of me

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Speaker 5: after the unfortunate event surrounding my federal case. I was

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Speaker 5: wrongfully charged because I fought for this city, and if

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Speaker 5: I had to do it again, I would fight for

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Speaker 5: New York again. And yet, despite all we've achieved, I

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Speaker 5: cannot continue my re election campaign. The constant media speculation

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Speaker 5: about my future and the campaign finance boys decision to

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Speaker 5: withhole millions of dollars have undermined my ability to raise

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Speaker 5: the funds needed for a serious campaign.

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Speaker 2: So he was polling in single digits. Here quite a

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Speaker 2: fall from grace from a man who was once hailed

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Speaker 2: as a potential future of the Democratic Party and now

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Speaker 2: he didn't even try to win the Democratic primary and

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Speaker 2: had to withdraw before election day. There had previously been

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Speaker 2: rumor saga that the Trump administration was trying to get

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Speaker 2: him out of the race. They want him and Sliwa

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Speaker 2: to drop out of the race. So it's a head

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Speaker 2: to head between Zoron and Cuomo, because Cuomo pulls the

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Speaker 2: strongest against the run even though even in the head

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Speaker 2: to head Zorone is still beating him. So that's what

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Speaker 2: they were trying to make happen. Apparently, the reporting suggests

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Speaker 2: I can't remember if I saw this in New York

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Speaker 2: Post or where I saw this, but that the Trump

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Speaker 2: administration was really only willing to offer Adams the Saudi

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Speaker 2: Arabia ambassador job if they were also getting Sleewa out

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Speaker 2: of the race. Since Slee was unwilling to get out,

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Speaker 2: then they were not willing to offer him that job.

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Speaker 2: Hence why you stayed in longer after there were all

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Speaker 2: these rumors that he was going to take that job.

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Speaker 2: But I guess it just became you know, it became

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Speaker 2: clear he was going to be absolutely humiliate and he

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Speaker 2: was pulling in the single digits.

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Speaker 3: Sleewah seems to be legit in terms of he's like, look,

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Speaker 3: I'm lifelong New York. I just want to run for

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Speaker 3: governor or. I want to run for mayor, and that's

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Speaker 3: what I do. I'm not really interested in anything else,

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Speaker 3: which I kind of like. I respect he doesn't have ambitions.

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Speaker 3: He's just like, this is who I am. This is

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Speaker 3: my thing, right, I like it. By the way, breaking

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Speaker 3: news literally just happened. Trump just tweeted about zoron Mumdani

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Speaker 3: I'll read it here. Self proclaimed New York communists or

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Speaker 3: on Mdannie who is running for mayor, will prove to

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Speaker 3: be one of the best things that ever happened to

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Speaker 3: our great Republican Party. He's going to have problems Washington

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Speaker 3: like no other mayor in the history of our once

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Speaker 3: great city. Remember, he needs money from me as president

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Speaker 3: in order to fulfill all of his fake communist promises.

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Speaker 3: He won't be getting any of that. So what's the

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Speaker 3: point of voting for him. The ideology has failed always

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Speaker 3: for thousands of years. It will fail again, that's guaranteed.

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Speaker 3: Don't know why he thinks that that is helpful in

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Speaker 3: any way, considering that if I mean, that's like a

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Speaker 3: campaign cut for Ron to be like Trump says, don't

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Speaker 3: vote for me, so you should what. Let me get

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Speaker 3: It's New York City, bro. The smartest thing you could

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Speaker 3: do is say the hell out of it, or be like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: actually Zorn is great or something like that.

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: I read it.

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Speaker 4: Don't admission of defeat exactly.

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Speaker 2: I mean, because he's like, listen, the pretext of the

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Speaker 2: subtext of that tweet is like Doron's going to be mayor.

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Speaker 2: And then think about how extraordinary it is that. I know,

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Speaker 2: with Trump, we just like take these things for granted.

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Speaker 2: But for the President of the United States to be like,

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Speaker 2: I don't like who the voters chose for this city,

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Speaker 2: so I'm just going to cut them off all funds,

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Speaker 2: Like that's that is insane. Any other president we would

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Speaker 2: be talking like impeachment. I mean, we would be losing

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Speaker 2: our minds about it. And with Trump is just like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: of course Trump doesn't like Zoron and voters picked Zoron,

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Speaker 2: so he's just going to like try to screw over

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Speaker 2: in American City. Crazy crazy stuff. But you know, I

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Speaker 2: think the writing is pretty clearly on the wall. Out Slee.

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Speaker 2: What doesn't look like he's getting on even if he did.

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Speaker 2: Zorn's bill has a commanding lead over Cuomo, roughly the

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Speaker 2: same lead that he had when he beat him in

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Speaker 2: the primary. And remember the primary polls underestimated Zorn's support

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Speaker 2: because he remade the electorate. He genuinely brought out a

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Speaker 2: different electorate than had previously been seen in democratic primaries

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Speaker 2: or in a general election. Way more young people came

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Speaker 2: out to vote, so it's actually possible that they're underestimating him.

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Speaker 2: Once again, we got a Cuomo reaction to Eric adams dropout.

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Speaker 2: We can put up on the screen as well to

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Speaker 2: see how he is responding. He says, the choice Eric

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Speaker 2: Adams made today was not an easy one. I believe

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Speaker 2: he's sincere and putting the well being of New York

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Speaker 2: City ahead of his personal ambition. We faced destructive extremist

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Speaker 2: forces that would devastate our city through incompetence. Our ignorance

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Speaker 2: is not too late to stop them.

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Speaker 4: Mayor.

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Speaker 2: Adams has much to be proud of in his accomplishments

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Speaker 2: only in New York and a child raise in a

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Speaker 2: tenement in Bushwick, who once worked as a squeegee boy

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Speaker 2: and a mailroom clerk rise to become mayor whatever differences

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Speaker 2: we may have. Eric adams story is undeniably one of resilience,

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Speaker 2: a testament to the spirit of the city.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure Cuomo would like.

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Speaker 2: To get a Adams endorsement on his way out the door,

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Speaker 2: not that it would make that much of a difference,

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Speaker 2: but he did was commanding, you know, some single digits

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Speaker 2: of support. He had some base, a small lingering base

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Speaker 2: of support that Cuomo would hope to be able to

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Speaker 2: inherit from him, and I think largely will largely will

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Speaker 2: inherit that basis support. Let's go ahead and take a

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Speaker 2: listen to Zorn's reaction.

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Speaker 4: What do you think the impact of his dropping out

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Speaker 4: will have on your electoral prospects.

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Speaker 6: I think it's very much the same race we have

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Speaker 6: seen over the course of this race, especially in the

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Speaker 6: final weeks and months of the primary, that Andrew Cuomo

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Speaker 6: wanted nothing more than a one on one fight with me,

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Speaker 6: and we gave him exactly that, and then we beat

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Speaker 6: him by thirteen points, and we continue to be just

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Speaker 6: as confident. And yet what separates us from these other

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Speaker 6: candidates is that we're not focused on them. We're focused

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Speaker 6: on New Yorkers. New Yorkers deserve leadership that is thinking

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Speaker 6: about how to benefit the people of the city. And

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Speaker 6: too often politicians, be it Andrew Cuomo, Eric Adams, the

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Speaker 6: meetings that they have or the phone calls with someone

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Speaker 6: like Donald Trump, they're only speaking about themselves. It's time

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Speaker 6: to actually think about New Yorkers.

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Speaker 2: So he is relatively unconcerned. Interesting response to from Hakeem Jeffreys,

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Speaker 2: hid you didn't pull is an element, but I'll just

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Speaker 2: read to you.

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Speaker 4: He says.

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Speaker 2: Eric Adams has served courageously and authentically for decades as

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Speaker 2: a member of the NYPD, the New York State Senate

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Speaker 2: in Brooklyn Borough Hall, and as our one hundred and

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Speaker 2: tenth mayor. During his time in office, violent crime is down,

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Speaker 2: the building of affordable housing units is up. New York

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Speaker 2: City has recovered from the COVID nineteen pandemic. As is

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Speaker 2: the case in any major city, there are challenges that remain,

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Speaker 2: particularly as it relates to lowering the high cost of living.

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Speaker 2: It is clear that meaningful progress has been made in

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Speaker 2: several important areas during the term of Mayor Adams. Thank

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Speaker 2: you for your service to our city. Over the next

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Speaker 2: few days, my entire focus will be on addressing the

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Speaker 2: Republican healthcare crisis and funding the government. I will publicly

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Speaker 2: weigh in with respect to the remaining candidates in the

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Speaker 2: mayor's race well before the start of early voting. This

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Speaker 2: is so insane to me on so many levels. First

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Speaker 2: of all, there is a Democratic nominee. You are the

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Speaker 2: Democratic leader in the House, and you still don't which

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Speaker 2: of the remaining candidates should I choose, Like, are you serious?

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Speaker 2: Second of all this stuff he said about Eric Adams

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Speaker 2: way nicer than anything he's ever said about Zorn. And again,

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Speaker 2: this man is so corrupt. Eric Adams, he was indict

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Speaker 2: so many of his officials were either under investigation or

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Speaker 2: themselves indicted or had to resign in disgrace. One of

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Speaker 2: his supporters was just caught handing over a bag of

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Speaker 2: cash and a potato chip bag to reporters and this

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Speaker 2: was apparently like common protocol. It is insane how corrupt

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Speaker 2: this man was. And not only that, he appears very much.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they basically came out in a minute to

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Speaker 2: have struck this corrupt deal with the Trump regime to

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Speaker 2: get out of his indictment. And you say nothing about that.

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Speaker 2: All just rainbows and puppies and flowers and sunshine about

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Speaker 2: what a great mayor he's been. If he's been such

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Speaker 2: a great mayor, why is he had single digits in polling?

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Speaker 2: Why was he unable to even run in the Democratic primary?

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Speaker 2: Why is he having to drop out in disgrace and

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Speaker 2: be one of the only New York City mayors in history,

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Speaker 2: the second in all of New York City history to

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Speaker 2: fail to win reelection. Why you have nothing to say

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Speaker 2: about that. I mean, it's just it's just actually insane.

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Speaker 2: It's actually insane, and I cannot it can't begin to

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Speaker 2: wrap my head around it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I find it very funny. They just won't admit

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Speaker 3: what's right in front of their faces. Almost weirdly, never

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Speaker 3: thought I would say credit to Kamala. She was like, hey,

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Speaker 3: use a Democratic nominee. So whatever, you know, it's one

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Speaker 3: of those This is where you know, the partisan loyalty

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Speaker 3: only goes one way.

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Speaker 1: It's obviously just because of Israel.

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Speaker 7: I don't know. I don't get it.

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Speaker 1: What are these what do they have on these people?

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Speaker 1: I just I'll never understand it.

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Speaker 3: How can you be so just like militantly attached to,

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Speaker 3: you know, sacrifice your own personal political ambition just about

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Speaker 3: the question of Israel. But listen, potentially this what we're

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Speaker 3: about to show you as part of it. Let's put

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Speaker 3: this up here on the screen from the ADL Jonathan

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Speaker 3: Greenblatt after Zoran quote, I'm absolutely blown away by the sheer,

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Speaker 3: brazen audacity of Zora Mamdani telling allow us in the

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Speaker 3: Jewish community who does and does not represent us. Because

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Speaker 3: Zorn said, the Adel does not speak for New York Jews.

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Speaker 3: We don't need anyone, a political candidate or any non

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Speaker 3: Jewish person to tell us.

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Speaker 1: Who should speak for the Jewish people.

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Speaker 3: Obviously, no marginalized group is monolith. But I am stunned

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Speaker 3: by his arrogance in telling a minority community who should

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Speaker 3: or should not speak to them. The vast majority of

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Speaker 3: American Jews consider themselves Zionists and have strong ties to

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Speaker 3: the state of Israel. Attending religious service at a synagogue

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Speaker 3: known for anti Zionist activities does not show that you

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Speaker 3: understand the overwhelming majority of the New York City Jewish community.

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Speaker 3: I love that part because what he's saying at the

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Speaker 3: end is actually that I could go to a synagogue

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Speaker 3: which is not pro Israel, then they're not real Jews.

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Speaker 1: Right, and that he's the real Jew.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you see what we're you see the circular logic, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that we're all doing here.

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Speaker 4: No, that's right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there is so much to say about this exchange,

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Speaker 2: about the ADL. So he says that attending the service

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you understand all Jews or that can

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Speaker 2: speak for Jews. Well, what does it say that he's

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Speaker 2: winning a majority of Jewish voters in New York. What

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Speaker 2: does that tell you about between the two of you,

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Speaker 2: who actually is responding ward in the needs Jewish voters in.

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Speaker 4: New York City. I mean, that's what's insane here.

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Speaker 2: Like Zoran is just factually correct at this point that

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Speaker 2: the ADL does not speak for New York Jews. That

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Speaker 2: is abundantly clear. It's clear in the way they vote,

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Speaker 2: it's clear in what the poles say. Not to say

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Speaker 2: that there aren't any Jews that support the ADL position,

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Speaker 2: but the other piece, that is so I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: not even ironic, it's almost intentional. No one has done

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Speaker 2: more to actually stoke anti Semitism then the ADL and

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Speaker 2: other outfits like it that demand that all Jews be

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Speaker 2: associated with the genocidal state.

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Speaker 4: Of Israel.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that is actually going to cause and is causing

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Speaker 2: genuine anti Semitism.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure you've seen.

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Speaker 2: We've been passing around some of these videos of him

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Speaker 2: talking about what they're going to do and these extraordinary

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Speaker 2: efforts they're going to take in order to make sure

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Speaker 2: that they stamp out anti Semitism, and it's on the

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Speaker 2: rise and spikings out on the control. It's like, then

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Speaker 2: shouldn't you resign? Like isn't that your whole job is

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Speaker 2: to fight and combat anti Semitism? Like if anti semitism

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Speaker 2: is up three thousand percent or whatever nonsense numbers you've

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Speaker 2: come up with, isn't that an indictment of your leadership

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Speaker 2: that happened on your watch? So hey, you know, the

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Speaker 2: proof is in the pudding here. And I don't think

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Speaker 2: it's like obviously not fair to way at all at

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Speaker 2: Jonathan Greenblat's feet, But when you insist a lot of

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Speaker 2: it is I'm tying every Jewish person to the horrific

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Speaker 2: acts of the war criminal Benjamin Netan Yahoo and the

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Speaker 2: genocidal state of Israel. Yes, you are going to be

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Speaker 2: stoking anti semitism because people are going to look at

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Speaker 2: that in horror and you're insisting, oh no, every Jew

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Speaker 2: is as, every Jew supports this, every Jew wants this done.

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Speaker 2: It's insane to me, completely insane.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean some would say maybe the ADL's entire

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Speaker 3: point was to increase anti Semitismit certain, because it's like

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Speaker 3: they want it to go up so that they can

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Speaker 3: fight back against it.

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Speaker 1: I've always thought about that with.

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Speaker 3: The AC or the Human Rights Campaign or any of

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Speaker 3: these other people, Like I remember thinking about them, and

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Speaker 3: you know, when gay marriage got legalized, they have this

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Speaker 3: huge building here in DC.

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Speaker 1: It's like, oh shit, now what do we do?

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Speaker 3: And so you know, they created all these new campaigns

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Speaker 3: or whatever you could say, the legitimate I think most

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Speaker 3: of them are bullshit. But my major point is without

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Speaker 3: the opposition, what do you do now? And actually saw

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Speaker 3: the collapse of this in twenty twenty two where a

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Speaker 3: lot of the pro life groups didn't come out to

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Speaker 3: vote Republican because like, hey, we got what we wanted.

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Speaker 3: You know, I've always thought about that with sometimes you

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Speaker 3: need the issue to be live, and in some cases

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Speaker 3: you want it to be worse in order to increase

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Speaker 3: your funding and keep it circular.

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Speaker 2: Well, and even when you consider the ADL being so

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Speaker 2: tied in with the State of Israel. Ryan was making

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Speaker 2: this point, you know, nothing benefits Netan Yahoo and his

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Speaker 2: political project and the State of Israel more broadly than

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Speaker 2: when there is this sense of rising anti Semitism around

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Speaker 2: the world, because this is why we need the safe

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Speaker 2: haven for juice. And that has been true from the beginning,

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Speaker 2: from before the founding of the State of Israel in

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Speaker 2: terms of you know, even some early Zionists, like they

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Speaker 2: did not want the US and the UK to take

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Speaker 2: in Jewish refugees because they thought that that would undermine

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Speaker 2: the case that they were trying to make for the

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Speaker 2: you know, Jewish national project. So even on a bigger

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Speaker 2: level outside of just like interest group politics, since he's

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Speaker 2: so tied in with the State of Israel and the

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Speaker 2: Zionist project, is you know, clearly an ideological like uh

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Speaker 2: touchstone for him, Like that's what drives all of his views.

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Speaker 2: The sense that anti Semitism is rising he and Netanyahu

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Speaker 2: feel benefits the State of Israel and creates more urgency

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Speaker 2: around the project that they believe in.

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Speaker 3: That's right, all right, Hey, we've got Ken Clippenstein standing by,

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Speaker 3: so let's get to him.

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Speaker 2: So President Trump has announced full force if necessary, to

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Speaker 2: the city of Portland, Oregon to break down that and

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Speaker 2: also a lot else that's going on in the national

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Speaker 2: security world. We are joined by Ken Klippenstein, fantastic independent

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Speaker 2: journalists over on substack, who gets all the scoobs. Great

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Speaker 2: to see you, my friends.

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Speaker 1: Goode again.

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Speaker 7: Hey guys, all right.

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Speaker 2: So let me first get you before we get to

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Speaker 2: your reporting. Let me get you to react to this

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Speaker 2: Trump truth about Portland. We can put this up on

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Speaker 2: the screen. Pretty wild that he puts this down. He

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Speaker 2: says that the requests Sectuary of Homeland Security Christy No,

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm directing Secretary of War Pete hag Set to

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Speaker 2: provide all necessary troops to protect war ravaged Portland and

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Speaker 2: any of our ice facilities under siege from attack by

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Speaker 2: Antifa and other domestic terrorists. I'm also authorizing full force

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Speaker 2: if necessary. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

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Speaker 2: So what did you make of this? What are we

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Speaker 2: likely to see?

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Speaker 7: Ken?

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Speaker 8: Well, it's striking how many times he's done this in

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Speaker 8: states in which the governors don't actually want the support.

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Speaker 8: The mayors of these major cities don't want the support,

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Speaker 8: and so what you really have here is federal government

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Speaker 8: pitted against states. But the president has the power to

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Speaker 8: federalize these guard forces.

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Speaker 7: And do these kind of things.

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Speaker 8: So seeing his account of what he sees is going

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Speaker 8: on in Portland and then the locals, it's it's sort

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Speaker 8: of surreal how different, how different what the two groups

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Speaker 8: see is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Ken, I know this fits into some of your reporting.

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Speaker 3: So why don't we just go ahead and get to it.

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Speaker 3: We'll put this up here on the screen. About the

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Speaker 3: National Security Memorandum here NSPM seven by administration insiders for

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Speaker 3: those who are not familiar, national security memorandums are often

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Speaker 3: a statement of administration policy previously used by the Obama administration,

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Speaker 3: Biden administration, etc. To kind of set the scope for

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Speaker 3: terrorism and or general policy of how all governments should flow.

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Speaker 3: So here you say it, quote NSPM seven labels common

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Speaker 3: beliefs as quote terrorism indicators. Can you just tell us

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Speaker 3: a little bit about what you found in that and

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Speaker 3: what the broader implications are of the memorandum?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, So what n SPM seven does, and fortunately we

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Speaker 8: know because NSPM six is classified, as are many of

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Speaker 8: the national security presidential memoranda. This is completely separate from

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Speaker 8: the executive orders, of which we've seen over two hundred

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Speaker 8: and I think that might be part of why people

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Speaker 8: missed it. I think the major media got it mixed

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Speaker 8: up with the designation of the presidential executive Order designating

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Speaker 8: Anti Fuzzy Domestic Terrorists Organization. This is completely separate from that,

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Speaker 8: and these national security memoranda are kind.

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Speaker 7: Of big picture strategic.

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Speaker 8: Realignments around whatever it is that they articulate, so they're

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Speaker 8: in my view, they're much more significant than executive orders.

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Speaker 8: But what this does is it basically authorizes what are

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Speaker 8: called joint terrorism task forces. These were mostly established after

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Speaker 8: and in response to nine to eleven. That is, thousands

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Speaker 8: of troops or sorry, thousands of FBI agents and local

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Speaker 8: police who can be deputized into these joint terrorism task forces.

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Speaker 7: It's kind of similar to the.

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Speaker 8: Deployment of the National Guard in that you are kind

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Speaker 8: of federalizing what would be local and state troops and assets.

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Speaker 8: And what's interesting is this can be done even without

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Speaker 8: the knowledge and in some cases consent of the state,

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Speaker 8: the state legislature, and the state governor. So what this

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Speaker 8: does is it sets them on this target, which in

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Speaker 8: this case is domestic The phrase use repeatedly is radical

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Speaker 8: left extremism and terrorism. And you know throughout the document

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Speaker 8: that says, oh, we're just focused on, you know, instances

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Speaker 8: of violence. But what it does when you have a count,

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Speaker 8: when you adopt a counter terror approach, where you're essentially.

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Speaker 7: Doing is you're you're getting into.

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Speaker 8: Pre crime because what you're trying to do is you're

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Speaker 8: trying to preempt the next big attack. And if that

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Speaker 8: in the case of a biological weapons attack or a

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Speaker 8: you know, nuclear attack, that might make sense. But short

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Speaker 8: of that, what you're doing is you're trying to preempt

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Speaker 8: things that might not be necessary to do so. And

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Speaker 8: when you want to preempt something, you have to try

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Speaker 8: to predict that it's going to happen. The way you

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Speaker 8: do that is by looking at speech, and so it

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Speaker 8: has this list of different, you know, ideas that they

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Speaker 8: consider it in DCA is the word they use. It's

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Speaker 8: like Latin for indicators that are supposed to tell you

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Speaker 8: that one of these attacks might happen. And when you

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Speaker 8: look at them, these are huge groups of people, anti Christianity,

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Speaker 8: anti family, anti me.

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Speaker 2: Let me read the let me read the lists, because

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Speaker 2: I have it in front of me, so you don't

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Speaker 2: have to remember all like twelve things or whatever. Because

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Speaker 2: so this is their definition of when they say, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is radical left extremist terrorists, this is their definition

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Speaker 2: of what they're talking about, and appears basically to be

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Speaker 2: anyone who has been critical of Donald Trump period. So

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Speaker 2: they're looking at these indicators anti Americanism, anti capitalism, anti Christianity,

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Speaker 2: support for the overthrow of the US government, extremism on migration,

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Speaker 2: extremism on race, extremism, on gender, hostility towards those who

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Speaker 2: hold traditional American views on family, hostility towards those who

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Speaker 2: hold traditional American views on religion, and hostility towards those

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Speaker 2: who hold traditional American views on morality. What's more, you

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Speaker 2: talk about the fact that the Trump administration, it's not

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Speaker 2: like they're only targeting organizations or groups. They're also targeting

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Speaker 2: individuals and quote unquote entities that can be identified with

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Speaker 2: any of those ideologies, which, as I just read off,

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Speaker 2: are extremely broad and vague.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 8: And it's important when you talk about individuals because ordinarily,

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Speaker 8: when you approach catera terrorism, the idea, at least post

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Speaker 8: nine eleven, is you're supposed to map out these organization

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Speaker 8: like Al Kaita or Isis, which really do have resources

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Speaker 8: and really do have funding to be able to do

438
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 8: operational things. But the fact that they say individuals and

439
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,280
Speaker 8: entities I thought was a little bit chilling, because again,

440
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,600
Speaker 8: the whole point of the counter terrorism approach is you're

441
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 8: supposed to be responding to something that poses a profound

442
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,879
Speaker 8: threat to the stability of the state. If it's just

443
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,119
Speaker 8: an individual and if it's this whole list of different ideologies,

444
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,639
Speaker 8: is that really something that can carry something out like

445
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,960
Speaker 8: nine to eleven? I don't think so. And so, you know,

446
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 8: I think the response is wildly out of proportion.

447
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,720
Speaker 2: Is what is an entities piece? What does that bring

448
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 2: to mind for you? Why is that a particular or

449
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:35,600
Speaker 2: run flyve for you?

450
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,680
Speaker 8: Well, if you look at the Domestic Terrorist Organization Executive

451
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:45,200
Speaker 8: Order last week targeting Antifa, that rightly concern. That really

452
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,120
Speaker 8: caused a lot of concern because you know, you're supposed

453
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 8: to foreign terrorist organizations are supposed to be what's designated,

454
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 8: because it's understood that when you treat something as terrorism,

455
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,680
Speaker 8: that is a direct threat to the First Amendment. Because

456
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 8: again you're getting into this business of how can we

457
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 8: use IDIOLG and belief systems to try to anticipate and

458
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 8: monitor and attack that might happen. So it's supposed to

459
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 8: be treated with a lot of caution. So now they're

460
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,840
Speaker 8: completely throwing out the idea of the organization that's not

461
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 8: even necessary anymore. In the case of anti Feather, was

462
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,359
Speaker 8: this whole debate about well does it even exist as

463
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 8: a coherent organized entity. Now they're just done with that,

464
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 8: and they're like, well, now there's individuals, and it's like

465
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,639
Speaker 8: how much threat does one individual post? Like do they

466
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 8: have the operational capacity of al Qaeda to be able?

467
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 8: I mean, we just saw, you know, on nine to

468
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 8: eleven some more records got released and we were looking

469
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 8: at the amount of coordination that had to happen between

470
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 8: the different cells. It's not trivial to carry out something

471
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 8: big enough that that can create a mass casualty event

472
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 8: like that. And now it's like that even that standard

473
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 8: start not the window.

474
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 3: Well let's push a little bit here, ken we I

475
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,879
Speaker 3: think we all agree you're Antiva is not an organized force,

476
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,399
Speaker 3: and I'm not some you know, left wing organizations or

477
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,920
Speaker 3: whatever are the ones behind this. I largely think it's

478
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,160
Speaker 3: kind of bottom up very relative to the let's say,

479
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 3: the terrorism craze of the late twenty tens, so called

480
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 3: lone wolf terrorist people like the San Bernardino Pulse shooter. Right,

481
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 3: these are people who were living normal lives, started getting

482
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 3: into al Qaeda propaganda, went mentally ill and killed a

483
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 3: lot of people. And so I think most people would say, yeah,

484
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 3: I mean there should be some sort of federal government

485
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,920
Speaker 3: type response to it. I think you're basically saying it

486
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 3: should be a local matter. I'm not sure I'm entirely there,

487
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 3: although I am very uncomfortable with the way that a

488
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 3: lot of the nine to eleven post terrorism state was used,

489
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 3: because for all of the Pulse and San Bernardino stuff

490
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 3: that they could point to, there were myriad cases, many

491
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 3: of which we covered here on the show, which were

492
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:41,439
Speaker 3: basically entrapment, like not legally entrapment, but basically entrapman. Although

493
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,679
Speaker 3: at that time they had a material support for terrorism

494
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 3: charge very easily at their disposal, I don't see how

495
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 3: practically they could go down that road.

496
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 1: So I know, I threw a lot out you, but

497
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:51,719
Speaker 1: threw a lot at you. But what do you how

498
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 1: do you grapple with that?

499
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, I would say that if you wanted to respond

500
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 8: to it using the counter terrorism apparatus, a more effective

501
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 8: way it would be to have more focused indisia or

502
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,640
Speaker 8: indicators than like anti capitalism.

503
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 7: That's huge. It's got to be millions of millions of people.

504
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 8: So even just from the perspective of efficacy, you know

505
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 8: that that's going to lead you down some paths that

506
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 8: are probably not going to turn up much in terms

507
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 8: of you know, actionable Yeah.

508
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 2: I mean, some thirty plus percent of America that I

509
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 2: just saw a whole identify as democratic socialists at this point,

510
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 2: so they all you know, anti cap and you know,

511
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 2: they use an example in the Antifa Executive Order of

512
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 2: anybody who quote unquote celebrated the killing of the healthcare

513
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 2: CEO by Luigi Manngioni. So I think that's the other

514
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 2: important piece to get is what is material support for terrorism?

515
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 2: Because this administration is really pushed to make it so

516
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 2: that even just speech, even just you know, rhetorical support

517
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 2: for things that they find to be terroristic, could constitute

518
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 2: material support for terror.

519
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 8: Right, And on this point, I guess I should acknowledge, like,

520
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 8: you know, you're right. My general view is that it's

521
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 8: preferable to accept some amount of like tragedies happening in

522
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 8: exchange for the First Amendment. And that's not a very

523
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 8: popular position, but I guess I should be honest and

524
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 8: transparent about that, is my position, because in this case, I.

525
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:20,479
Speaker 3: Largely share that about the second a moment, I think

526
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 3: it's important to say stuff like that.

527
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, and in this case, you know, I've already spoke.

528
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 8: I'm going to have a story shortly based on lawyers

529
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 8: and legal experts who are now working with nonprofit organizations

530
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 8: and they're already hearing that they're going to start curtailing

531
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 8: stuff they're saying out of fear of the implementation of

532
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 8: this order. So the chilling effect on speech is already happening,

533
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 8: and to me, that is something that should be of

534
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 8: paramount concern to people. But if you look at the

535
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 8: media coverage, on some level, I understand it because you know,

536
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 8: in the case of Charlie Kirk and these shootings, it's horrifying,

537
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 8: and I understand that people want some sort of response

538
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 8: to happen so that those things don't have And again,

539
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 8: but I guess my view is that we should just

540
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 8: proceed with caution about how you go about doing that,

541
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 8: because this memorandum in particular, it just feels like this

542
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 8: sledgehammer approach to the problem when you look at the language.

543
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,679
Speaker 8: I mean, it is so broad it's crazy to me.

544
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 8: But that's my Yeah, that's essentially my position.

545
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 2: I mean, it's also just very much aimed at whoever

546
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,199
Speaker 2: is their political opponents, you know.

547
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 4: I mean it's you know, using.

548
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 2: This moment of heightened public anxiety concern about left wing

549
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 2: violence to you know, further try to crush their political

550
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,239
Speaker 2: opponents and pay the mole as terrorists. And you had

551
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 2: Steven Miller can put this sweet up on the screen

552
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 2: saying we're witnessing domestic terrorists sedition against the federal government.

553
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,239
Speaker 2: The JTTF Joint Terrorism Task Force has been dispatched by

554
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,239
Speaker 2: the Attorney General pursuant too, and he name checks this

555
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 2: memorandum NSPM seven. All necessary resources will be utilized. And

556
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 2: so when I first saw this, I was like, what

557
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: the fuck is n SPM seven? And then I saw

558
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 2: your reporting. Thank you, Ken, Now I understand, but you know,

559
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 2: just can you sort of sketch this out like they're

560
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 2: already putting this into effect. They're already he says, all

561
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 2: necessary resources will be utilized, like, what does this actually

562
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 2: look like and mean in society or do we know

563
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 2: actually at this point how it'll be really used.

564
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 8: Well in regards to the intelligence collection and the monitoring

565
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 8: of those indicators that we were describing, a lot of

566
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 8: that will happen on the intelligence side, and so we

567
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 8: won't see that. What we will see is the tapping

568
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 8: of these jttfs, the Joint Terrorism Task Forces, which I

569
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 8: think is going to be a kind of more extreme

570
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 8: example of the deployment of the National Guard because in

571
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:36,199
Speaker 8: the case of the National Guard, and I said in

572
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 8: the story, I really don't want to sound like I'm being,

573
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 8: you know, hyperbolic or overstating things, but this really is

574
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 8: what some of the more you know, exaggerated reporting on

575
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 8: the National Guard has been because the National Guard, the

576
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 8: military can't engage in law enforcement.

577
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 7: They don't actually have the authority to do that.

578
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 8: When you talk to the troops, as I have in

579
00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 8: both LA and DC, they're under strict rules of engagement orders.

580
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 8: That's not to say that I think it's good that

581
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 8: we're deploying it. I don't think it's healthy for society

582
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 8: to have troops stomping around, even if they're limited in

583
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 8: what they can do.

584
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 7: That being said, they're quite restricted to what they can do.

585
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 8: A lot of the National Guard are just regular guys,

586
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 8: locals that are integrated in the community, and so I

587
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 8: think some of the reporting around the idea that they're

588
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 8: just going to open fire on people, I don't think

589
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 8: that's really you know, I don't think that's the concern.

590
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 8: I think the concern should be more what is the

591
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 8: effect on the democratic culture. But in the case of

592
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 8: the Joint Terrorism Task Forces, they can engage in law

593
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 8: enforcement directly, and they can be federalized by the president

594
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 8: without the support of the state legislature and the governor.

595
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 8: So I really think that this should be something that

596
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 8: a lot of the critique that has been leveled at

597
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 8: the National Guard should be should be focused on.

598
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: To cope a little bit.

599
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 3: Maybe here ken material support for terrorism was a real

600
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 3: thing because ISIS was a foreign terrorist organization. Even this

601
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 3: whole anti Trump said he was going to designate Antifa

602
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 3: in the first term. It didn't happen because you actually

603
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 3: can't designate a quote domestic terrorist organization. You can't you

604
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 3: support ording the Open Society's foundation is just like not

605
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 3: open is not material support for Tara. Now, I mean,

606
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 3: you could use tax rad or you could say, you know,

607
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 3: some sort of other weaponization of government, for sure, but

608
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 3: that does that lay any of your concern More just

609
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 3: about how much of this is just for show? How

610
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 3: much of this is just to placate a lot of

611
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 3: right wing influencers on Twitter who are calling.

612
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: For blood when in reality.

613
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 3: Like US jurisprudence is like pretty clear about what actual

614
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 3: terrorism means. Now, you can employ a lot of other

615
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 3: types of job laws to make their life hell, I'm

616
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 3: not disputing that whatsoever, But how much of this is

617
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 3: for theater?

618
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 8: I would say that, you know, I'm on record saying

619
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 8: that a lot of the National Guard deployments were theater,

620
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 8: creating these images of guys stumming around, and then you

621
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 8: actually watch the videos and they're picking up trash and things.

622
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 8: You know, because of that, because of that roe that

623
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 8: I was just talking about, they really are limited in

624
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 8: what they can actually do in this case. You know,

625
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 8: charges that they levy are going to have to stand

626
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 8: up in court, and so that's an important form of

627
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 8: oversight that has not changed by the executive order. That said,

628
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 8: I'm more concerned about the subtle effects on speech that

629
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 8: I was just describing, which is not NGOs and organizations

630
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 8: and groups saying, you know, maybe we wanted to say

631
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 8: this thing, but all with all this heat in the

632
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 8: form of the memorandum, and not just the Joined Terrors

633
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 8: and task forces, but the IRS auditing these organizations and

634
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 8: trying to find things to say that they're you know,

635
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 8: supporting whatever. Maybe we're not going to go ahead with

636
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 8: this project or say this controversial thing. So that's kind

637
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 8: of a more nuanced concern, I guess than like the

638
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 8: black helicopters sort of thing. But it's a real one

639
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 8: that we're already seeing. In the case of how the

640
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 8: jttfs are going to be deployed to make cases against

641
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 8: people that has yet to be seen and I don't

642
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 8: know the answer to that yet. But Steven Miller's comment,

643
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,239
Speaker 8: I was amazed by how quickly he said, we are

644
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 8: activating them, and that says to me that they're taking

645
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 8: that part of the memorandum.

646
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 7: More seriously than one might expect.

647
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 8: And lastly, just in reporting all this, I was curious myself,

648
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 8: do they really believe this stuff? Not just this specific thing,

649
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 8: but like the kind of general approach to stuff is

650
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 8: tearysm thing, and I've been struck by how much and

651
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 8: to some extent I feel some empathy. I think something

652
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 8: traumatic a friend of theirs got killed and they're responding

653
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 8: to it. And what I found is like, in large part,

654
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 8: they really do think that there's some network orchestrating these things,

655
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 8: and that we're going to find the network. So it

656
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 8: struck me as pretty sincere a lot of it where

657
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 8: I expected it to be more along the lines of

658
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 8: political signaling in theater.

659
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean last thing from me, just in terms

660
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 2: of its implementation and reading the tellers and whatever.

661
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 4: I mean.

662
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 2: You have this back and forth with Gavin Newsom and

663
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 2: Steven Miller where Newsome calls Steven Miller a fascist, and

664
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: then you have people who were saying this is incitement

665
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: to violence, right effectively, like this speech is out of

666
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 2: bounds and it's incitement and it should be criminalized. You

667
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 2: had Pam Bondi saying this thing about like there's a

668
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 2: difference between free speech and hate speech. She sort of

669
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 2: backed that up, like walked that back because there was

670
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 2: a backlash, and then try comes out and says basically

671
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: the same thing. So this is their view, is that

672
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 2: this sort of speech should be out of balance, It

673
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 2: should be criminal. You should be viewed as a terrorist

674
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 2: if you say these sorts of things. And we know

675
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 2: the way that the you know, this government has worked

676
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 2: to make that reality. We saw it first and foremost

677
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 2: with student visa holders in particular, and the crushing descent

678
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 2: of them, for crushing of their descent for things like

679
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 2: writing op eds, et cetera. But you know, it seems

680
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 2: like this is an attempt to expand that to also

681
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 2: direct those powers at American citizens. And the last thing

682
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 2: to get from you, Ken is this is something you've said.

683
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 4: To me before.

684
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 2: It is like, you know, part of why we're in

685
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 2: a more dangerous era than post two thousand and one

686
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 2: is because the technology is much more effective. Pallenteer is

687
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 2: a thing now, like the ability to you don't have

688
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 2: to have individual FBI agents like searching up people's social

689
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 2: media history. You can have AI roll through everything all

690
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 2: of us are saying anywhere online and flag who's saying

691
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 2: something anti Capita, who celebrated Luigi, who said something untoured

692
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 2: about Charlie Kirk. And that can be done automatically in

693
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 2: a way that requires almost no human beings to be involved.

694
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 2: So I think that's part of how people need to

695
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 2: process this dystopian moment, is that the technology has progressed

696
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 2: much further, so it's much easier for the federal government

697
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 2: to act in authoritarian ways.

698
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 8: Yeah, totally. I mean, we're in a position where, because

699
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 8: of large language models and things like that, the state

700
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,239
Speaker 8: is able to process things on a scale that we

701
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 8: couldn't even imagine fifteen years ago. And so this historical

702
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 8: protection that we had against government encouragion and interference into

703
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 8: you know, like Fourth Amendment rights, you know on unreasonable

704
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 8: a search and seizure, which is that the NSA can

705
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 8: collect everything, but good luck going through all of it.

706
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 8: That is increasingly melting away. They will be able and

707
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,479
Speaker 8: increasingly are able to go through all these things. And

708
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 8: what we need to have is an attendant response by

709
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 8: the Congress, by the legislature to try to enshrine those

710
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 8: rights in a way that they're protected from these breakthroughs

711
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 8: in technology. And I've seen nothing of the sort in

712
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 8: the last couple of years, So that's really going to

713
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 8: be the challenge of the next decade or so.

714
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 3: I think I totally agree the AI question powered with

715
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 3: government is really scary. It also is one where is

716
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 3: anybody in the future going to give it up? No,

717
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 3: like these contracts are all going to stay for the power.

718
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 3: So I really appreciate your answer earlier about chilling. I

719
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 3: think that is I think that is very poignant and

720
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 3: one that is the cleanest and easiest hit is that

721
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 3: government action which does chill speech even for people. It's

722
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 3: like with the FCC thing. You know, they were arguing, Oh,

723
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 3: we didn't directly get involved. It's like, yeah, but at

724
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 3: the end of the day, like you know, everybody's going

725
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 3: to think about it.

726
00:33:58,240 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: Networks.

727
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 3: I think that's very well said, and I think that

728
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 3: you know, I'm sitting with that, I really am.

729
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 2: Can can you tell people to where to support your work?

730
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 2: You've been doing an incredible job lately and not just lately.

731
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 8: Yeah, I run a newsletter at Kenclippinsen dot com.

732
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:15,399
Speaker 7: You can find me there. Nice.

733
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 1: Next time we're gonna fight about your trans piece.

734
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 3: But we didn't have time today, Okay, all right, all right,

735
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 3: we'll get to rereencheck.

736
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 2: All right, thanks Ken, all right, bye, guys.

737
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: All right, let's get to Reod.

738
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 3: There was a great confact currently taking place the Reod

739
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 3: comedy festival made famous too much of the Internet by

740
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 3: Tim Dillon, who which we'll get to here in a

741
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 3: little bit. But nonetheless, many of America's best and brightest

742
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 3: flew to Reod accepted large checks for their comedy festival.

743
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 3: And we have a little bit of a preview of

744
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 3: what we can show everybody. Let's go ahead and put

745
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 3: it up here on the screen. What do we have exactly?

746
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 3: We've got probably the best stand up comedian in the world,

747
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 3: Dave Chappelle, who joined the Red Comedy Festival, christ de Stefano.

748
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 3: Much of the biggest you know, comedy influencers, I guess

749
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 3: you could say who joined over there. Not a particularly

750
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 3: big audience, but ye had Kevin Hart rocking his whoop

751
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 3: strap just like I am, so shout out to shout

752
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 3: out to Kevin, who also, by the way, appears in

753
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 3: a lot of DraftKings commercials.

754
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: I've certainly noticed that.

755
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 3: But the point being broadly that many of the biggest

756
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 3: you know, comedy stars of the US decided to go

757
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 3: over there. And why I think it's interesting from a

758
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 3: broad from a broad like question of culture is how

759
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 3: much can money buy in terms of your ability to

760
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 3: say what you want? Because The thing is is I

761
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 3: think if you would put some of these people together,

762
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 3: many are would be I think quite critical of the

763
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 3: Saudi government. Now Saudi government realizes that, which is why,

764
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 3: you know, a literal kingdom monarchy is holding a quote

765
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 3: comedy festival to try and whitewash their image, just like

766
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 3: they do with live golf and all that. Some people

767
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 3: in America are like, hey, who cares. I'm like, well,

768
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 3: you know, nine to eleven. But whatever, I guess we're

769
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 3: going to move past that. But the point of their

770
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 3: snowflakery remains very important. Let's put this up here on

771
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 3: the screen. You'll recall Tim Dylan famously was like, hey,

772
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 3: I took the bag. I made three hundred thousand dollars

773
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 3: for Saudi Arabia from Saudi Arabia to go and speak

774
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 3: at this comedy festival. And then he told jokes where

775
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 3: he said, quote they heard you said about them having slaves.

776
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 3: Dylan recalled his manager telling him in a previous conversation

777
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 3: they didn't like that quote. I addressed it in a

778
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 3: funny way, and they fired me. I certainly was going

779
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 3: to show up in your country and insult the people

780
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 3: that are paying me the money. But I mean, he

781
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 3: was doing it certainly on his podcast. But it does

782
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 3: kind of make you think here about, well, what is

783
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 3: the price of all this Saudi money and what is

784
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 3: the purpose that they're doing it? And should we want

785
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 3: you know, our best and brightest in comedy or whatever

786
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 3: to be involved. Shout out to Shane Gillis, who you know,

787
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 3: he's a history guy. So here's what he had to say.

788
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 3: Let's put it up here on the screen. He said, quote,

789
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 3: I took a principal stand. You don't nine to eleven

790
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,720
Speaker 3: your friends after he turned down quote a significant bag

791
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 3: for an appearance.

792
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 1: You know, nice that chain.

793
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 3: Actually has read a book here and obviously knows what

794
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 3: he's talking about. But yeah, I just I don't know.

795
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 3: For me, it's like the live golf thing. By the way,

796
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 3: I had friends, you know, at the at the comedy festival.

797
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 3: I guess I don't begrudge people taking money, but what

798
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 3: it is for me is you got to look at

799
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 3: the purpose of like why they're doing this, and they want,

800
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 3: you know, they want to basically use their billions to

801
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 3: make the entire country forget about nine to eleven. And

802
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 3: by the way, it's working because there's only one or

803
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 3: two people who basically decided not to do it on

804
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 3: those purposes. You can go back to the days after

805
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 3: nine to eleven where the Bush administration stepped in to

806
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 3: try and protect the government of Saudi Arabia from pushback.

807
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 3: There's all these articles from the New York Times and

808
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 3: others ning courage people to go and read about the

809
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 3: amount of money that the Saudi spent on a pr

810
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 3: campaign to make Americans forget about nine to eleven, fifteen

811
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 3: of the nineteen hijackers nine eleven and we invaded who

812
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 3: right Iraq? And so it's one of those where at

813
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 3: the end of the day, one from live Golf to Uber,

814
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 3: I mean, their money is so it's so ever present

815
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 3: in venture capital in Silicon Valley, you'd be hard you know,

816
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 3: people talk about silent speech on Israel people.

817
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: I mean, you'd be hard pressed to.

818
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,720
Speaker 3: Find one or two venture capitalists who run big funds

819
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 3: who would say something about Saudi Arabia. Uber Ceo right,

820
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,240
Speaker 3: for example, huge amounts of Saudi money involved Twitter previously Facebook.

821
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 3: I mean, many of these companies have huge amounts of

822
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 3: Saudi money influence that they it's like a convenient cash

823
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 3: cow not to mention. Politically, people think about Jared Kushner,

824
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 3: who went to the Saudi royal family for their sovereign

825
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 3: Wealth Fund whenever he was raising money, and internal documents

826
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 3: later came out that MBS personally greenlit the investment even

827
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 3: though the Saudi managers were like, hey, this is he's

828
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 3: not going to give us a good return. He's like,

829
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 3: h it's not about that. He's like, this is about politics, right,

830
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 3: this is what we're paying for. So I look at

831
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 3: within that and it's scary because you watch how easy

832
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 3: the money's able to penetrate now from Live Golf UFC

833
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 3: right with all the emirates and all these golf monarchies.

834
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 1: They have endless amounts of cash.

835
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 3: And I think they've read us very carefully, which is

836
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 3: if you throw money at these people, eventually they will

837
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 3: forget and we'll all just move on. And yeah, it's

838
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 3: been twenty four years and they won.

839
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 2: So for the Saudi side, I mean nine to eleven

840
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 2: is one thing. You also have, obviously, the murder and

841
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 2: chopping up with a bon saw of Jamal Kashogo. Kushogi,

842
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 2: who was a journalist, wrote for the Washing Post columns

843
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 2: that the crownference didn't like, and so that was the

844
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 2: fate that he was met with widespread human rights and

845
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 2: labor abuses, mass crackdown on free speech. And that may

846
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: be then, and of course the enforced famine and what

847
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,399
Speaker 2: many call it genocide in Yemen. So but the free

848
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 2: speech one is worth pausing and sitting with here for

849
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 2: a moment.

850
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 4: Comedians should be and have been, at.

851
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: The vanguard a standing up for freedom of expression and

852
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 2: free speech. This regime is the polar opposite, and that

853
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: even bleeds into what the comedians had to agree to

854
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 2: as a condition of their employment. Here we can put

855
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 2: F five up on the screen. So this is from

856
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 2: a comedian who was offered, you know, given an offer

857
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: to attend this read comedy festival. Some significant amount of

858
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 2: money was ultimately offered and they they published some of

859
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 2: the restrictions that artists were required to adhere to. So

860
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 2: it says content restrictions. Artists shall not prepare or perform

861
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,479
Speaker 2: any material that may be considered to degrade to fame

862
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 2: or bring into public disrepute, contempt, scandal, embarrassment, or ridicule.

863
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,240
Speaker 2: A The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, including its leadership, public figures, culture,

864
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,760
Speaker 2: or people be the Saudi royal family, legal system or government,

865
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 2: and see any religion, religious tradition, religious figure, or religious practice.

866
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 2: So they all, every one of them, including the you

867
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 2: know ones who code more left wing like a Bill Burr,

868
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 2: they all accepted this set of criteria and curtailed their

869
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 2: own freedom of speech in exchange for money. And you're right, Zager,

870
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 2: like this is these comedians are not the only one.

871
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 2: They're Mariah Carey's performed there, Justin Bieber's performed there, and

872
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 2: in every there's. They put their money into golf, they

873
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 2: put their money into tennis, they put their money into

874
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 2: race car driving, into e car driving, like electric sports racing,

875
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 2: on and on and on. Hosted these major entertainment festivals,

876
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,399
Speaker 2: major artist fairs to bring in the top artists from

877
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 2: around the world, et cetera. And the hope is that

878
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 2: people will forget about all of that other stuff. And

879
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 2: that's actually Tim Dillon I did a monologue on this.

880
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 2: You guys can go back and watch when he originally

881
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 2: accepted the cash and did his bit that ends up

882
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 2: getting him fired his hole. The whole shtick was you're

883
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 2: paying me enough to look the other way, and that's it.

884
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 2: That's and that is the deal that these comedians have accepted.

885
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 2: That is the deal that's being offered by Saudi Arabia's basically,

886
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,879
Speaker 2: we're going to pay you more than anyone else will

887
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 2: pay you. I mean, these are big paydays, especially for

888
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 2: certain of these comedians.

889
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 4: We will pay you.

890
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 2: More than you're actually worth. And in exchange, you're not

891
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 2: going you are going to look the other way, You're

892
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 2: not going to say any of the things we don't

893
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 2: want you to say, and you are going to help

894
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 2: us launder our reputation. And sad, this is actually the

895
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 2: biggest backlash that I've seen to one of these things.

896
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:18,919
Speaker 1: I hope.

897
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 2: The sad truth is that in every instance, as artists

898
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 2: have weighed this deal like is it worth it? Will

899
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 2: the backlash to my reputation? Will I be staying with

900
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 2: this in a way that is more consequential than the

901
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 2: payday I'm getting on the other side, In every case,

902
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 2: the answer has been no. The answer has been in

903
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 2: favor of taking the blood money and doing the performance.

904
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 2: And Tim Dillon's words, looking the other way.

905
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, well, you know, a very least at

906
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 3: least said what he thought, and they fired him for it.

907
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 2: I mean he ends up because I apparently he got

908
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 2: to keep some of the money and then we have

909
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 2: to perform. So and I want to say too, I

910
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 2: think it was so Rogan also said no. And I

911
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 2: think it was Tim Dillon that he had that.

912
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: He was ready talked about it.

913
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 2: It was before Dylan had been canceled from it, and

914
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 2: he was giving him a hard time about like taking

915
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 2: this money.

916
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 3: Oh right, yeah, I hadn't listened to the full thing.

917
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 3: I look, my problem was, I don't know why, but

918
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 3: somehow in this country we all just started giving people

919
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 3: a pass. I remember, I remember the live golf thing.

920
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 3: Our position was so unpopular in the golf I don't

921
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 3: watch golf.

922
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 7: I'm not a golf guy.

923
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 3: I'm more just saying, though, from what I understand in

924
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 3: the golf fandom community, hey brothers, get your bag. And

925
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, really, like what you're making hundreds

926
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 3: of millions of dollars and it's like now you have to.

927
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: Make five hundred million dollars or whatever, and.

928
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 3: We all just get to look the other way because

929
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 3: you're accepting this for open, like naked interference in American culture,

930
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 3: and we're not supposed to have a take because we're

931
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 3: all just supposed to sit and worship at the at

932
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 3: the altar of golf so that you can make as

933
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 3: much money as possible. I'm like, no, that's not the

934
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 3: deal I signed up for. But I think this is

935
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 3: a broad kind of problem is we don't hold Look

936
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 3: if we hold American comedy, Hollywood and all of that

937
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 3: to a high standard, which I think we should, especially

938
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 3: in terms of the effects of globalization. It's kind of

939
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 3: analogous to what's going on right now with the NFL.

940
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 3: But the NFL right now this year is playing a

941
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 3: number of international games, and that's because for them, they've

942
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 3: hit the ceiling.

943
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 7: In America.

944
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 3: Football is the most American sport of the top one

945
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 3: hundred broadcasts out of ninety three out of the hundred

946
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 3: are NFL games. Like it's ridiculously dominant.

947
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: So do you know what they do.

948
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 3: They're like, well, we can't make more money. This thing

949
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 3: needs to grow, grow, grow, So let's play in Brazil,

950
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 3: Let's play in Dublin like they just did.

951
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: Let's play in London, in Spain.

952
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 3: And because they want to grow the fan base and

953
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 3: make it more international so they can make more money.

954
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 3: But part of that is that what they're trying to

955
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 3: do is use like globalization kind of in the same

956
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 3: way that the Saudas are to make American culture not

957
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 3: beholden to American standards. And I think that's one of

958
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 3: those where we really should hold these higher echelons of

959
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 3: culture to the same standard that I think some people

960
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 3: held the Real Comedy Festival. And it's important, it's important

961
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 3: to say no, like that's not happening.

962
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: You don't just get to, you know, use the.

963
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 3: Country as springboard, as a cash cower an atm. Same

964
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 3: with the Saudi's. You don't just get unlimited access to

965
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 3: our capital markets. And yeah, I just think broadly like

966
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 3: we've lost everything is degenerate, and it's just all about

967
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 3: the bottom line and at a certain point, like people

968
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 3: need to stand up and be like, no, we're not

969
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 3: doing this anymore.

970
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:24,439
Speaker 9: Yeah.

971
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 2: I mean that was Dylan's things like the world is ending,

972
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 2: so gets your bag. Yeah, And I feel like that

973
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 2: is a disgusting view, but I also feel like that

974
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 2: is a very prevalent view.

975
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 4: People feel like the.

976
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 2: Collective project is kind of failing, so you just got

977
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 2: to get yours.

978
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 4: I mean, at the national federal level.

979
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 2: Naomi Klin talks about like she she calls them sort

980
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 2: of like like I can't remember end times end times preppers.

981
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 2: But at the national level she has a great lemon

982
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 2: blanking on, like the phrase she uses, but basically like

983
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 2: we're going to suck up all the resources, whether it's

984
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 2: the energy, whether it's the water. Are like, it's it's

985
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 2: a free for all, a smash and grab. And that's

986
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 2: that's at the national level, and then individually with each

987
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 2: of these creators, influencers, comedians, people in their daily lives,

988
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 2: like that's the message that's being sent. It's just you

989
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 2: got like forget about the collective, you got to get

990
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 2: yours and this is an expression of that, you know,

991
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 2: with the live golf thing, I will say there's one

992
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 2: slight silver lining. Kyle could update on whether this is

993
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 2: still holding true. But because the level of golf for

994
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 2: the guys that took the bag and went to live golf,

995
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 2: the level of golf is not quite the same as

996
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 2: the PGA Tour and the length of the tournaments is shorter.

997
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 2: So they have been struggling at like the major events

998
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,879
Speaker 2: because they're not used to the level company and they're

999
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 2: not used to the length of play, So there's been

1000
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 2: some backsliding for some of them, at least in terms

1001
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 2: of the level of their play, which is a little

1002
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 2: bit of like a nice like little bit of card.

1003
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 2: Good for the guys who so now took the bag.

1004
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 2: Like I said, I had to check with Kyle whether

1005
00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 2: that's still the case. But there's also a whole separate

1006
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 2: storyline and we could talk about too about the Ryder

1007
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 2: Cup over the weekend, the Americans of the Europeans and

1008
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 2: how that all went down a yeah, okay, yeah, and

1009
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 2: Trump went and made a visit. The American fans were

1010
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 2: absolutely outrageous assholes, like in a way that was actually unacceptable.

1011
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 2: So a lot of Americans you can't be you can't

1012
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 2: be screw screaming and yelling on the backswing like some

1013
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 2: leveling or whatever.

1014
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 3: Iris Irish famously the most famously a fan base which

1015
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 3: would never troll or yell at anybody.

1016
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: Listen over yourselves.

1017
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 2: Everyone including Americans, were acknowledging this was like of a

1018
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 2: different level than what has been seen before. So even

1019
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 2: a lot of Americans were like cheering for the Europeans

1020
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 2: because the American fan base were such incredible assholes, and

1021
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 2: you had Trump make a visit as well, which made

1022
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 2: it like instantly partisans. In any case, I do want

1023
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 2: to get to Mark Marron circling back to Riod and

1024
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 2: what he had to say about all of this. I mean,

1025
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 2: he's funny and self deprecating because he's like, look, I

1026
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 2: didn't get invited to very easy for me to be

1027
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:57,399
Speaker 2: moral on this issue. But let's go ahead and take

1028
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 2: a listen to what he had to say.

1029
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 7: Comedy fists. I don't know if you'd heard about that.

1030
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 9: This is true, there's a Riad Saudi Arabia comedy festival.

1031
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 9: I mean, how do you even promote that? You know,

1032
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 9: like from the folks that brought you nine to eleven

1033
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 9: two weeks of laughter in the desert, don't miss it.

1034
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 9: I mean, the same guy that's gonna pay them is

1035
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 9: the same guy that paid that guy to bones Jamal

1036
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 9: Kashogi and put him in a fucking suitcase.

1037
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:31,240
Speaker 1: But don't let that stop the yucks.

1038
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 7: It's gonna be a good time.

1039
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 4: Oh there you go him weihg.

1040
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 3: And So in any case, I do wonder because Mark,

1041
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 3: for people who don't follow all this, Mark.

1042
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:41,720
Speaker 1: Has famous beef.

1043
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 3: I think with many comedians, Mark is look, I mean

1044
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 3: I think Mark, I don't think he would just be this.

1045
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: He's woke. He's like a woke comic.

1046
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, I think he would probably accept you would,

1047
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 3: all right, So Mark Marins woke and he hates the

1048
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 3: quote anti woke comedians, and so look, I don't know.

1049
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 3: I think a lot of it was personal for him.

1050
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 3: He's also famously a personal prick, so how much of

1051
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 3: that is motivated? But at the very least he wasn't

1052
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 3: wrong in his set, So that's what we can say.

1053
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: I will say to Mark Marin.

1054
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 3: He was the OG, or at least one of the

1055
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 3: OG's on podcasting, and apparently he is retiring, which is

1056
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 3: kind of sad. I remember listening to his interview with

1057
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 3: Luis c k where they made up. I mean, this

1058
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 3: has got to be more than ten years ago, and

1059
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,280
Speaker 3: that's when I really got turned into the podcast medium.

1060
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:26,439
Speaker 1: So I do want to give him his due.

1061
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,280
Speaker 4: He did a lot of the bang man. He's been throwing.

1062
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 2: He's been throwing bombs, he's been getting attention, like gaining.

1063
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 2: I feel like he's having a late career resurgence in

1064
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 2: terms of his relevance.

1065
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 3: It's just a shit live and he's just like voicing

1066
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 3: the same shit lib stuff that he always has.

1067
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 4: Its just that willing.

1068
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,879
Speaker 2: I mean, so much of comedy has become more right

1069
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 2: coded that for him to a lot a lot of it.

1070
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 3: It's only right coded to you because you don't agree

1071
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 3: with it. I mean, it's just one of those where.

1072
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 2: Like I mean, they all supported Trumps, the trues, that's

1073
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:57,839
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about, Okay, but.

1074
00:49:58,120 --> 00:49:59,839
Speaker 4: I would consider that to be right wing.

1075
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 3: But that's my point is that it's more about countercultural

1076
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 3: and the culture for the last fifteen years has been

1077
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 3: explicitly left wight.

1078
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 2: So let me let me let me finish my thought here. So,

1079
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 2: I mean, you had a bunch of comedians support Trump,

1080
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 2: right endorse him and go to an augery all that crap, right,

1081
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 2: and then so Maren now coming out and being very

1082
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 2: vocal against them like one of the few, has of

1083
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 2: course gotten him a lot of you know, a lot

1084
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 2: of attention and a lot more than you know he

1085
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 2: had been in recent years.

1086
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 4: So it's almost like.

1087
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 2: The culture now has shifted, the vibe shifted the right,

1088
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 2: and now he's the one who's sort of like more

1089
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 2: counterplage being a.

1090
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 1: Critical Oh I agree with That's what one hundred. I agree,

1091
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: I would. I would.

1092
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 3: That's my take with Maren is that he's basically the

1093
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 3: exact same kind of extremist shit lib that he's always been. Look,

1094
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,320
Speaker 3: it's not denigrating. I appreciate some of the guy's podcasts.

1095
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 3: He gets some good interviews and all of that. But

1096
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 3: it's now that what's happened is that because the country

1097
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 3: is explicitly run by the Republicans and there's been effectively

1098
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 3: like a total or at least twenty twenty four post

1099
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 3: Vibes was like total decimation culture of total cultural victory

1100
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 3: in every way. Now it is like vaguely countercultural. I

1101
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 3: saw a funny tweet that the most countercultural thing someone

1102
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 3: in Silicon Valley could do would be just be anti

1103
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 3: Trump and put pronouns in their bio, And you're like, wow,

1104
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 3: you know, five years ago that was literally the dominant culture.

1105
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, it is.

1106
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 3: It is actually interesting from like a you know, kind

1107
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 3: of counter culture point of view, And I do think

1108
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 3: he's got some clean hits in some ways where he's like,

1109
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 3: you guys won, so why are you still telling the

1110
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 3: jokes about the counter culture as if things have not

1111
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 3: changed a little bit? And I think he is correct

1112
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 3: in that way, and so I am curious to see

1113
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 3: where think, you know, kind of where the wind blows

1114
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,720
Speaker 3: and who gets elevated with some of the new comedy.

1115
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 3: But anyway, that's just me. I don't know anything, all right.

1116
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 3: So that's my take broadly on the whole we odd situation.

1117
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 3: We will see you guys tomorrow for a Tuesday show,

1118
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 3: and we're about to do our am so there you go.