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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. And it all started last

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Speaker 1: month when someone reported that the children and at home

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Speaker 1: we're not getting an education. See yf D started checking

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Speaker 1: up on that, and documents say that's when they discovered

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Speaker 1: this family has a big, mysterious past. The walls are

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Speaker 1: covered in letters in the handwriting of a nearly ten

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Speaker 1: year old child. I miss you, I love you. Sweet

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Speaker 1: words to parents just arrested for child abuse. My family

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Speaker 1: are wonderful people. My mom and dad are some of

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Speaker 1: the best people. You mean those words and these letters

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Speaker 1: a stark contrast from details in these court documents. Martha

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Speaker 1: and Timothy Crouch are facing serious child abuse allegations that

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Speaker 1: all stemmed after calls to see YFD about alleged educational neglect.

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Speaker 1: We don't make the kid to do anything you don't

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Speaker 1: want to, unless it's a tour or something. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: gotta do dishes, you gotta does croudest son, thirty one

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Speaker 1: year old Timothy says, the fourteen kids, some who are

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Speaker 1: now adults, made their own decisions. My brother Padrow's a

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Speaker 1: truck for Louis And if you ask them to read something,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna look at you. You're like you're you're funny,

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Speaker 1: but you get them on the back of the truck

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Speaker 1: and he can drive it. A mother, a New Mexico

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Speaker 1: mother accused of boiling puppies, torturing children, bait nborn kittens

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Speaker 1: dead with a hammer. It it's almost too gruesome to

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Speaker 1: believe it's it's true. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Emphasis on word mother.

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Speaker 1: If this is true that she actually boiled puppies or

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Speaker 1: beatnborn kittens dead with a hammer, her daughter's breaking their

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Speaker 1: silence to tell of pure hell and a house of

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Speaker 1: horrors with me. Professor at University Memphis Law School, Stephen Mulroy,

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Speaker 1: former federal prosecutor, former NYPD John Cardillo, forensics psychologist, Doctor

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Speaker 1: Daniel Bober, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood

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Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan, but first

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Speaker 1: to Leavipage Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter, what yes, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: this is a horrific case. Martha Krouch, who's fifty three

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Speaker 1: years old, and her husband, Timothy Krouch, who's fifty seven,

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Speaker 1: They were arrested in New Mexico with horrific allegations of

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Speaker 1: child abuse. And apparently there's a long history of this.

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Speaker 1: They've been investigated in Alaska, Kansas, Missouri, Montana and other states,

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Speaker 1: and when the investigation would heat up, they would move

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Speaker 1: and that's how they escaped this for years. But the allegations,

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Speaker 1: generally speaking, are that they would think that their daughters

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Speaker 1: were fat, so they would chain them up in beds,

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Speaker 1: only feed them one meal a day, usually ramen, and

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Speaker 1: as punishment, if they gained weight or they wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: out of weight, that satisfactory to the parents. They would

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Speaker 1: kill their pets, dogs, puppies and kittens, and they would

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Speaker 1: beat the kids. I mean, it's horrific allegations that keeps

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Speaker 1: you up at night when you think about them. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our friend Brittany Costello at KOB four.

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Speaker 1: But the allegations in these documents accused the parents of

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Speaker 1: much worse. Children who grew up in that home and

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Speaker 1: moved away told police they were brutally beaten. One teen

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Speaker 1: girl still living with a couple told police she was

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Speaker 1: routinely abused. They reportedly allowed one meal a day, and

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Speaker 1: that Martha would punish them by killing their pets. She

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Speaker 1: told police Martha took the puppies and put them in

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Speaker 1: a giant pot and boiled them while they watched. I

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Speaker 1: almost can't take it in to forensic psychologist doctor Daniel Bober.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever noticed, doctor Bober? And I see it

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Speaker 1: with comments online. People seem to care more about animal

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Speaker 1: abuse than they do about child abuse. You know, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: I'm actually involved in a case like this right now

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Speaker 1: with an a severe animal abuser. And I have to

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Speaker 1: tell you that you know, people of you animals as

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Speaker 1: purely innocent creatures, and so you're almost better off killing

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Speaker 1: a person than an animal. For some people, because they

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Speaker 1: love their dogs, they love their cats, and so a

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Speaker 1: case like this is particularly gruesome to those people. I

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Speaker 1: think it may be because animals truly are helpless. I mean,

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Speaker 1: at least a human may be able to get out

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Speaker 1: a door, unlock a lock, call nine one one. Maybe

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Speaker 1: not always, but maybe I think that's the reasoning. I

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Speaker 1: want to go to doctor Daniel Bober again on this.

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Speaker 1: The mindset. Accusations of boiling puppies, murdering kittens, torturing her children.

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Speaker 1: What kind of mindset does a mom have who woul

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Speaker 1: like this kind of abuse well, clearly someone who doesn't

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Speaker 1: really have a connection to living things. You know, she

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Speaker 1: abuses her children in a very similar way as someone

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Speaker 1: who just doesn't have the capacity for empathy or remorse

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Speaker 1: and doesn't feel anything about the living things around her.

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Speaker 1: You know, if these claims are true. To Stephen mulroy,

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Speaker 1: Professor at University Memphis Law School, what would be in

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Speaker 1: your mind an appropriate punishment. Oh, we've got, you know,

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Speaker 1: animal cruelty, child cruelty, aggravated child abuse at a minimum.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're talking years some term of years of

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Speaker 1: imprisonment for both of them. I would have to think,

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Speaker 1: I mean, assuming that the allegations are correct, and right

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Speaker 1: now they're allegations, but there's so many different accounts from

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Speaker 1: so many different children that overlap and reinforce a strong

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Speaker 1: reason to think that this happened. So we're talking aggravated

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Speaker 1: child abuse and child cruelty for years in prison. And

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Speaker 1: my question is, how has it been the case that

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Speaker 1: these children are still in the custody of the parents

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Speaker 1: for so long? Why weren't these children removed from their

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Speaker 1: custody years ago? In light of the apparently years and

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Speaker 1: years of abuse that we were hearing about The daughters

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Speaker 1: of the House of Horrors couple Martha and Timothy Crouch

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Speaker 1: describe how their monster mom beat them severely, kept them

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Speaker 1: chained to a bed, one for three years, chained to

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Speaker 1: a bed from the age of eight to make a

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Speaker 1: lose weight, and forced them to witness their newborn kittens

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Speaker 1: being beaten to death with a hammer. I agree. How

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Speaker 1: did they manage to keep custody of these children? Fifteen children,

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Speaker 1: eight sons, seven daughters, their home dubbed a house of horrors.

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Speaker 1: The mom charged with child abuse, cruelty to animals, including

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Speaker 1: forcing the children to watch while she boiled puppies alive. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: of course, that can this type of child cruelty tin

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Speaker 1: can be twenty to life behind bars. But it's really interesting,

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Speaker 1: is it not? And I'm going to throw this to

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Speaker 1: John Cardillo, former NYPD and all the cases of child

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Speaker 1: cruelty and child abuse, people blame always blame the mom more.

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Speaker 1: But a dad was involved in this as well. Why

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Speaker 1: is that? You know? I think because they feel they're

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Speaker 1: they're supposed to be the nurturers. Nancy. I mean, these

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Speaker 1: cases always shocked me. I'm an animal guy, right, I've

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Speaker 1: got three dogs, three horses, I'm fostering another horse that

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Speaker 1: was malnourished to get them back to help. So these

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Speaker 1: always bothered me, and they always bothered me when I'd

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Speaker 1: walk into these scenes sadly I did with animals severely

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Speaker 1: abused torture. Boy, listen to this. I asked you about

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Speaker 1: child abust and you're talking about the animal abuse. I'm

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Speaker 1: not faulting you, but that goes back to what Bober

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Speaker 1: and I were talking about. How people you get so

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Speaker 1: upset and I don't blame them when animals armist treated. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm going my question to you, as in your prect

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Speaker 1: and as a cop in a New York PD, people

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Speaker 1: tend to blame the moms more than the dads. Why

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Speaker 1: is that? The reason? The reason I think, and I

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Speaker 1: did a lot of work as well with the National

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Speaker 1: Center for Missing and Exploited Children, is that we find

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Speaker 1: in these abuse cases, especially where they're sexual abuse as

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Speaker 1: well as the child abuse, the perpetrators are oftentimes men,

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Speaker 1: and so the expectation is, because that the women are

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Speaker 1: not the perpetrators, they should be the ones to blow

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Speaker 1: the whistle. It's perceived as far more heinous. Whether that's

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Speaker 1: scientifically fair and accurate or not, it's perceived as far

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Speaker 1: more heenez by the public and by law enforcement. When

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Speaker 1: the woman is a perpetrator, is a co conspirator in

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Speaker 1: all this because you expect the mom. Look, I had

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Speaker 1: a case with an eight year old girl. The stepdad

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Speaker 1: locked himself in the bathroom with her and he tried

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Speaker 1: to manually molest her. Luckily, the mom kicked in the

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Speaker 1: bathroom door, slashed him with a butcher knife. He jumped

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Speaker 1: out the fire escape, told her for a coat. It

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Speaker 1: was December in the Bronx and she was our best asset.

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Speaker 1: She told us where he went when she played the

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Speaker 1: role and said, okay, I understand, I'll get you the coat,

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Speaker 1: and scribbled down on a piece of paper where he

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Speaker 1: was and we rolled around a few blocks away and

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Speaker 1: picked him up. We expect all moms to react that way.

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Speaker 1: She was married to the guy for twelve years. The

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Speaker 1: minute he touched her daughter that went out the window,

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Speaker 1: she wanted to kill him. So when they don't act

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Speaker 1: that way, when they're not Mama bear, we look at

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Speaker 1: that as particularly hanus. Take a listen to our friend

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Speaker 1: at KOB four. This is Brittany Castello. One child claimed

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Speaker 1: he was beaten, shop, stabbed and run over by his

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Speaker 1: parents and even had babies still inside his arm. Another

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Speaker 1: daughter even said she was put on a fat chain

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Speaker 1: for three years to prevent her from getting food because

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Speaker 1: she was chubby. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the

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Speaker 1: last hours, we learn that the bond has actually been

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Speaker 1: reduced for this monster mom charged with boiling puppies, child cruelty.

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Speaker 1: Imagine it, beaten, shot, stabbed, run over with bb still

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Speaker 1: in your arm. A girl, a little girl at age eight,

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Speaker 1: being put on a fat chain quote fat chain. Their words,

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Speaker 1: not mine, to prevent her from getting food because she

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Speaker 1: was quote chubby, and she has her bond reduced. Wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, you didn't tell me anything about that, Levi

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Speaker 1: Page Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter. This is with

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Speaker 1: felon accounts of child abuse, extreme cruelty to children, obstruction

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Speaker 1: of the investigation into child abuse. What she has had

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Speaker 1: her bond lowered? At District court, Judge Curtis Gurley ordered

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Speaker 1: her bond to be reduced from fifty thousand dollars to

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Speaker 1: thirty thousand dollars in cash at ten percent. What's the

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Speaker 1: judge's name, Curtis Gurley? Curtis Gurley. Catch this. The husband

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Speaker 1: facing charges is now requesting his wife be released on

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Speaker 1: her own recognisance. Do you think that's going to happen?

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Speaker 1: Let me throw that to you, Joseph Scott Morgan. Well,

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Speaker 1: we've seen certainly seen more bizarre things happen than that.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, to his owner. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're going to go back into the same cycle they

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Speaker 1: were previously in Nan seeing this terrifying. And one more

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Speaker 1: point here along along the way we you just mentioned

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Speaker 1: just a moment ago. I think maybe it was Levi

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Speaker 1: that many of these these children have now you know,

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Speaker 1: they're now adults, okay, and my thought is is that

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Speaker 1: they could be having children of their own at this point. Tim,

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Speaker 1: that's the door for something. It's really dark. That is,

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Speaker 1: they're going to bring these other small children around these

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Speaker 1: people potentially, And if that doesn't strike fear in your heart,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what would to. Stephen mulroy, professor at

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Speaker 1: University Memphis Law School. Now the daughters are speaking out,

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Speaker 1: they've gotten a few years older, they are not afraid

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Speaker 1: to speak out anymore. Could that result in more charges?

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Speaker 1: Well quite possibly, depending on what they say. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, we've we've heard such a lengthy list of

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Speaker 1: charges already. I mean, you tell them, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: hard to believe that it could get any worse. But

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Speaker 1: since we've got these adult children who are out from

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Speaker 1: under their custody and no longer have anything to fear,

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Speaker 1: you know, and more attention has been brought to the

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Speaker 1: case and they're investigating it, I'm sure that we probably

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Speaker 1: will here about more. Well, what about the problem of

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Speaker 1: statute of limitations. Well, yeah, that's that's true. Some of

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Speaker 1: these things are probably going to be barred by the

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Speaker 1: statute of limitations. You know. I would imagine that some

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Speaker 1: of these things are stories that we are ten, twelve

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Speaker 1: years old, and they may be barred by the statute

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Speaker 1: of limitations. But it sounds from what the reporting that

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Speaker 1: we've been hearing, is that there are going to be

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Speaker 1: more than enough charges within the statute of limitations to

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Speaker 1: put these people away for a while of their convictions.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking on what you just says, Stephen

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Speaker 1: mulroy about the statute of limitations on some of these

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Speaker 1: you know, in many jurisdictions, and we're seeing this in

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Speaker 1: the r. Kelly case. Statutes of limitations and what that

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Speaker 1: means is say I let's blame Jackie. Say Jackie goes

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Speaker 1: to Macy's and stills about five hundred dollars worth of lingerie,

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Speaker 1: push up bras her weakness, and they don't prosecute her

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Speaker 1: for ten years. Guess what the statute of limitations has run.

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Speaker 1: It's too late. You have to prosecute in a timely manner.

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Speaker 1: There is one crime when no statute, and that's a murder. However,

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Speaker 1: many jurisdictions are changing the statute on X attacks and

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Speaker 1: child abuse. So when the child, for instance, has the

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Speaker 1: memory later in life or gets to a point where

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Speaker 1: they're not afraid to speak out, the statute is waved.

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Speaker 1: And out of all these jurisdictions Alaska, Kansas, Missouri, Montana,

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Speaker 1: and Moore, certainly one of them will have waved a

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Speaker 1: statute so this case can go forward. Could somebody tell

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Speaker 1: me why this woman has put herself in a wheelchair

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Speaker 1: and rolled herself into court. Because she surely had the

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Speaker 1: strength and the dexterity to hammer kitten's dead, to boil puppies,

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Speaker 1: and to chain her daughter to a bed, according to them,

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Speaker 1: and now she suddenly has to be in a wheelchair.

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Speaker 1: What about it LEVI. Yeah, if you look at her

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Speaker 1: mug shut she also has an oxygen tank on her

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Speaker 1: as well. So I think that she is claiming to

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Speaker 1: be sick, and she's claiming that she's not the proper

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Speaker 1: medical care in jail, and her husband is one her

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Speaker 1: out and the husband is out. He's charged with a

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Speaker 1: misdemeanor of obstructing justice and the investigation into this case.

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Speaker 1: And he's actually collecting disability twenty two hundred dollars a month. Oh,

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Speaker 1: dear Lord in heaven. Well, maybe Judge Curtis Gurley will

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Speaker 1: invite them to stay at his house since he's so

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Speaker 1: quick to reduce her bond. We wait as justice unfolds.

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace crime story, signing off goodbye friend,