1
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:15,680
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease. A beautiful young mom's torso

2
00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:23,200
Speaker 1: turns up and a local dumpster. Her parents are missing.

3
00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:32,040
Speaker 1: Why is the case not yet totally solved? This as

4
00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:36,160
Speaker 1: we learn in the last few hours, very odd circumstances

5
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:44,120
Speaker 1: surrounding the cut marks on the young mom's body. What,

6
00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:51,240
Speaker 1: if anything, do they reveal? The beautiful young mom May Hskell,

7
00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:55,640
Speaker 1: just thirty seven years old. It was stated that police

8
00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,600
Speaker 1: believe her torso was found in a dumpster. That is

9
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:05,480
Speaker 1: in her torso has been found in a dumpster. No

10
00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:10,119
Speaker 1: thanks to the killer who conveniently removed her head and

11
00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:15,200
Speaker 1: fingerprints and any bodily identification such as a birthmark or

12
00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,520
Speaker 1: a tattoo all gone. Whoever killed her? And I think

13
00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,160
Speaker 1: I know who it was, Sam Haskell knew exactly what

14
00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,360
Speaker 1: he was doing, So don't jump up and claim insanity

15
00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:29,880
Speaker 1: on me. And again we're still looking for her parents.

16
00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,720
Speaker 1: But what more have we learned in the last hours.

17
00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,720
Speaker 1: I meansy grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for

18
00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,040
Speaker 1: being with us here at Crime Stories and on Serrius

19
00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,960
Speaker 1: XM one eleven. First of all, take a listen to

20
00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:46,960
Speaker 1: Dave matt Crime Online.

21
00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,800
Speaker 2: The headless torso of a female was found in a

22
00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,360
Speaker 2: trash dumpster Encino, California, by a homeless man just after

23
00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,320
Speaker 2: six am on November eight, twenty twenty three. The torso

24
00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,280
Speaker 2: was identified the following month as thirty seven year old

25
00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,480
Speaker 2: Melee Haskell, and now four months later, the autopsy report

26
00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,920
Speaker 2: has been released. According to the autopsy report, her cause

27
00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,919
Speaker 2: of death has been deferred, but given the circumstances of

28
00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,840
Speaker 2: the case, which includes the deliberate concealment of the body

29
00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,600
Speaker 2: by dismemberment and disposal, the manner of death is homicidal violence.

30
00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,519
Speaker 1: I guess so unless she dismembered herself and then jumped

31
00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,880
Speaker 1: into a dumpster, that told me actually something very important

32
00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,600
Speaker 1: that the cod cause of death is deferred. Why is

33
00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,919
Speaker 1: that important? That means that on her torso we can't

34
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:38,640
Speaker 1: tell why she died. And there is conversation, and not

35
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:46,880
Speaker 1: wild speculation, but conversation regarding the question. Was may dismembered

36
00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:52,760
Speaker 1: while still alive? That said, take a listen to this.

37
00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,560
Speaker 3: According to the autopsy report, whoever did this dismembered the

38
00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,440
Speaker 3: torso with a single sharp force injury at the base

39
00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,400
Speaker 3: of the NTI your neck. No fatal injuries were found

40
00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,400
Speaker 3: on the torso The report further states High School's head,

41
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,520
Speaker 3: majority of the neck and majority of all four extremities

42
00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,240
Speaker 3: as absent, and the amputation sites as remarkably smooth, which

43
00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,000
Speaker 3: suggests a sharp power tool was likely used.

44
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,760
Speaker 1: Listen, I'm just a trial lawyer, Okay. I need an

45
00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,160
Speaker 1: expert in joining me as an all star panel to

46
00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,040
Speaker 1: make sense of what we know right now. I'm going

47
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:29,160
Speaker 1: to Gg McKelvey, host of the podcast Pretty Lies and Alibis,

48
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:35,400
Speaker 1: but first to renowned death investigator, professor forensics Jacksonville State University,

49
00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,560
Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star

50
00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,720
Speaker 1: of a hit podcast series Body Bags That, Joseph Scott.

51
00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:45,960
Speaker 1: Morgan Scott, thank you for being with us. So what

52
00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,600
Speaker 1: I say? He is a professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University.

53
00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:54,360
Speaker 1: He and Jacksonville State University has helped me do not one,

54
00:03:54,480 --> 00:04:03,960
Speaker 1: but two very detailed recreates of crimes, one over sixty

55
00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:11,119
Speaker 1: years old. Their criminal procedure and criminal Law undergrad program

56
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,280
Speaker 1: is amazing. Scott, thank you for being with us. I

57
00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,479
Speaker 1: need you to help me. I think I know what

58
00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,120
Speaker 1: it means, but before I would stand up in front

59
00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,760
Speaker 1: of a jury and explain it and regular people taught

60
00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,520
Speaker 1: so that somebody like me could understand it. I would

61
00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:30,160
Speaker 1: absolutely consult with an expert. The quote head majority of

62
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,560
Speaker 1: the neck and majority of all four extremities, which means

63
00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,280
Speaker 1: your two arms and your two legs are absent. And

64
00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,760
Speaker 1: the quote amputation sites. I've never heard of a dismemberment

65
00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:47,920
Speaker 1: referred to as an amputation site. But okay, are remarkably smooth.

66
00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:50,320
Speaker 1: What does that mean?

67
00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:55,360
Speaker 4: That means that these insults that she sustained, these injuries

68
00:04:55,520 --> 00:05:00,560
Speaker 4: which are post mortem, perhaps came with some something that

69
00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:05,560
Speaker 4: could deliver sufficient amount of force. And it's kind of interesting, Nancy,

70
00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,279
Speaker 4: because in one of the little segments that was read

71
00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,880
Speaker 4: just a moment ago relative to the autopsy report, they

72
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,640
Speaker 4: talked about a sharp force, a single sharp force injury. Well,

73
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:21,600
Speaker 4: that implies that maybe some instruments used and wielded at her.

74
00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:23,760
Speaker 4: But then they go on to say that there is

75
00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:29,320
Speaker 4: evidence of a power tool. That's significant because power tools

76
00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:34,040
Speaker 4: leave very specific markings behind on the bone, and they

77
00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:38,039
Speaker 4: create clean edges in the tissue itself. It's not like

78
00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,440
Speaker 4: you have to go through it over and over and

79
00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:45,000
Speaker 4: over again, pounding away. This is something that they can

80
00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,560
Speaker 4: actually tie back. This is tremendous physical evidence. If they

81
00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,720
Speaker 4: can find that tool, they can marry that up through

82
00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,520
Speaker 4: tool mark examination, which in the medical legal field we

83
00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,159
Speaker 4: work with tool mark examiners all the time. The big

84
00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,120
Speaker 4: tail here is going to be on that surface of

85
00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,119
Speaker 4: the bone. When you look down it, it'll have little

86
00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,800
Speaker 4: spiral swirls in it like this, and I think that's

87
00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:07,080
Speaker 4: probably what they're looking at.

88
00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,800
Speaker 1: Okay, I didn't want to interrupt to you in case

89
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,039
Speaker 1: there was any part of what you said that I

90
00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:16,760
Speaker 1: could understand. So let's start at the beginning, and sadly,

91
00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:21,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to grill you like July the

92
00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,720
Speaker 1: fourth barbecue. Okay, let's start at the very beginning. You

93
00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:34,040
Speaker 1: said a lot, but let's start with amputation sites remarkably smooth,

94
00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:39,400
Speaker 1: which suggests a power tool was likely used. You Joe

95
00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,599
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan also use the phraseology post mortem. Quote perhaps

96
00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,400
Speaker 1: quote your word, not mine. What would indicate to you

97
00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,400
Speaker 1: if anything that may could have been dismembered or partially

98
00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,000
Speaker 1: dismembered while alive.

99
00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,080
Speaker 4: That's a very simple assessment. What you're looking for while

100
00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,800
Speaker 4: the heart is beating, Obviously, you're looking for if this,

101
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,839
Speaker 4: if this trauma took place anti mortem, which means before death,

102
00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,760
Speaker 4: you're going to see these little focal areas of hemorrhage

103
00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,760
Speaker 4: in the soft tissue. That means the muscle that even

104
00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,239
Speaker 4: into the bone, you'll see this. If it's a post mortem,

105
00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,800
Speaker 4: after death event, you're going to be absent that. And

106
00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,520
Speaker 4: I find it very curious that they've kind of entertained

107
00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,400
Speaker 4: this thought because they're seeking here to try to determine what.

108
00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,360
Speaker 1: Her entertain what thought uh.

109
00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,920
Speaker 4: Well, that this has been put forth in the media

110
00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,559
Speaker 4: that there is a possibility that she was alive while

111
00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,280
Speaker 4: she was being dismembered, Nancy.

112
00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:41,720
Speaker 1: But I'm asking you, not some wing nut on the

113
00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,400
Speaker 1: internet making things up. If you were to look at

114
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:51,559
Speaker 1: a torso alone, jos Scott Morgan, what if anything would

115
00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,360
Speaker 1: tell you she had been dismembered while alive.

116
00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,120
Speaker 4: Those focal areas of hemorrhage, they would be there in

117
00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,040
Speaker 4: the soft tissue. You could appreciate them.

118
00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,960
Speaker 1: What do you mean focal areas of hemorrhage? Do you

119
00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,840
Speaker 1: mean she would have bled but she didn't, which means

120
00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:08,920
Speaker 1: her heart wasn't pumping, which means she was already dead

121
00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,520
Speaker 1: when she was dismembered. Yes, no, yes, okay, I can't

122
00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,120
Speaker 1: believe you actually answered yes or no. Jackie, he did it.

123
00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,400
Speaker 1: I think I just won one hundred dollars.

124
00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:19,560
Speaker 4: Red letter Day, Nancy.

125
00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,040
Speaker 1: Big day for me, Big day for me. Hold on,

126
00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,960
Speaker 1: can you look at a torso no arms, no head,

127
00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:33,520
Speaker 1: no neck, no legs at the as they say, amputation sites,

128
00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:38,480
Speaker 1: the severing. How would you be able to tell if

129
00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,520
Speaker 1: they didn't bleed? I mean they had to believe whether

130
00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:43,679
Speaker 1: her heart was pumping or not.

131
00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,920
Speaker 4: And right, wrong, wrong, what you look for are in life,

132
00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,480
Speaker 4: if you sustain an injury, you're going to get a hemorrhage,

133
00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,800
Speaker 4: just like a bruise, okay, or cut. Everybody can identify

134
00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,840
Speaker 4: with that all of those other sites that are absent

135
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,400
Speaker 4: that hemorrhage that I refer to, where it's seep out

136
00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,199
Speaker 4: into the interstitial tissue, that tissue that's surrounding the area.

137
00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,320
Speaker 1: WHOA wait, wait, haven't we talked about you not talking

138
00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,440
Speaker 1: like that? Okay? So are you saying that if she

139
00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,240
Speaker 1: were still alive when she was dismembered, I would see

140
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,360
Speaker 1: bleeding on the outside possibly if her skin where she

141
00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:25,360
Speaker 1: the the arms, legs were amputated. But also you're saying

142
00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,480
Speaker 1: interstitial tissue I think is what you said inside I

143
00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:29,800
Speaker 1: would see bleeding as well.

144
00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,520
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, it's okay.

145
00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:34,960
Speaker 1: Wait, I think I've got it. Hey, you do know

146
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,120
Speaker 1: if you say something right now, I'll totally lose this

147
00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,439
Speaker 1: train of thought. Okay, so don't unravel this. Wait a minute,

148
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,840
Speaker 1: let me get my mind around this. Can you imagine

149
00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,200
Speaker 1: what I put the poor medical examiner through before he

150
00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,880
Speaker 1: went on the stand she went on the STANMD. So

151
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,679
Speaker 1: this is what I'm getting at Joe Scott. If her

152
00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,400
Speaker 1: body had been wiped down for let's just say the

153
00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:59,960
Speaker 1: killer Sam Haskells finger prints or DNA, I wouldn't get

154
00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,880
Speaker 1: that blood, the bleeding on the outside. But you're telling

155
00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,560
Speaker 1: me if she was alive at the time of the dismemberment,

156
00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:07,679
Speaker 1: there would be bleeding on the inside. Like when you

157
00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,239
Speaker 1: get a bruise. There would be bruising or blood inside

158
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,160
Speaker 1: her tissue where the arms were cut off.

159
00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:16,320
Speaker 4: Yes, that's accurate.

160
00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,040
Speaker 1: Okay, that just made a lot of sense to me.

161
00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,079
Speaker 1: So you, as a death investigator or a medical examiner,

162
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,360
Speaker 1: can look at this torso and you will be able

163
00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:32,240
Speaker 1: to tell me, upon microscopic inspection of the severance. Yes,

164
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,040
Speaker 1: whether she was dead or alive at the time.

165
00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,400
Speaker 4: Yes, you can. And here's One more factor is that

166
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,160
Speaker 4: once you establish that, you look at all these other

167
00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,960
Speaker 4: sites and you see those that are absent hemorrhage Nancy,

168
00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,240
Speaker 4: and it kind of begins to tighten down that time

169
00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,760
Speaker 4: frame relative to the post mortem interval. How long had

170
00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:55,160
Speaker 4: she been dead? Perhaps? And my understanding is, and this

171
00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,880
Speaker 4: is very valuable, they found her remains rather quickly, so

172
00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:00,600
Speaker 4: they would have been able to do some kind of

173
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,800
Speaker 4: assessment about this. I think it's not like she had

174
00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,120
Speaker 4: been down for ever and ever. Amen, like a lot

175
00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:07,080
Speaker 4: of the cases.

176
00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:07,520
Speaker 5: That we cover.

177
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,480
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greece, J Scott, you're telling me

178
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:32,360
Speaker 1: that if the dismemberment had started before she was dead, Yes,

179
00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:37,320
Speaker 1: you will be able under a microscope, because you're looking

180
00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:42,640
Speaker 1: at the very delicate tissue around the cuts, around the severance.

181
00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,080
Speaker 1: You're looking to see if there's as you call it,

182
00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:50,560
Speaker 1: hemorrhag ing, bruising, bleeding inside that tissue. You'll be able

183
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,679
Speaker 1: to tell me, for instance, she was alive when her

184
00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,160
Speaker 1: arms were cut off. By the time her legs were

185
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,640
Speaker 1: cut off, she was dead. Is that what you're trying

186
00:11:58,640 --> 00:11:58,920
Speaker 1: to say?

187
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,680
Speaker 4: Yes, and you don't need a microscope to ascertain that.

188
00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,080
Speaker 4: You can actually see that with what we refer to

189
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:05,480
Speaker 4: as the unaided eye.

190
00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:05,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

191
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,080
Speaker 4: Absolutely, It's just like seeing a breuse on anyone else. Yeah,

192
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,800
Speaker 4: and you could appreciate that, And they would have at

193
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,320
Speaker 4: the Emmy's office in La County, which their top notch man,

194
00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,559
Speaker 4: they would have been able to pick up that very

195
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,600
Speaker 4: very quickly. The big thing here, though, pay attention to

196
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,560
Speaker 4: what they're saying about the neck very carefully, Nancy, because

197
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,880
Speaker 4: this neck, from what they're saying, her neck has been

198
00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,720
Speaker 4: taken off at the Really, if you just think about

199
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,200
Speaker 4: running parallel to the shoulders they're searching for a cause

200
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,440
Speaker 4: of death. Think about everything they threw out there, talking

201
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,560
Speaker 4: about possibility, could have been, may have been, these sorts

202
00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,320
Speaker 4: of things. They're missing that neck that obviously is still

203
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,880
Speaker 4: attached to the head wherever that is, And that is

204
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:48,960
Speaker 4: where your answers are going to lie.

205
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,880
Speaker 1: In my opinion, I don't know what you mean by

206
00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:56,440
Speaker 1: that you're saying. Are you saying that where she was

207
00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:00,439
Speaker 1: cut at the neck or her actual neck will give

208
00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:01,120
Speaker 1: me the answer.

209
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, where the head and the neck are severed from

210
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,080
Speaker 4: the body. It's so low that they can't appreciate things

211
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,520
Speaker 4: like if you're talking about a c clamp here on

212
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:12,840
Speaker 4: the neck where you get hemorrhage, where somebody has been

213
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,920
Speaker 4: choked out. That can't appreciate pe Tikii and the ie.

214
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,440
Speaker 4: You know, they talked about gunshot woman, They've talked about

215
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,360
Speaker 4: blunt force trauma. They've probably even entertained the idea of

216
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,160
Speaker 4: suffocation as well. They threw out an entire litany of

217
00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,640
Speaker 4: these things, Nancy, and there's really nothing to hang their

218
00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,240
Speaker 4: hat on because, as you said from the top, there's

219
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,400
Speaker 4: no trauma on the torso apparently because they're not calling it.

220
00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:40,480
Speaker 1: Wow, Scott, that was an amazing analysis. Guys. We are

221
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,640
Speaker 1: trying to make sense of what we are learning from

222
00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,520
Speaker 1: the latest, and for the latest, let's go straight out

223
00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:51,320
Speaker 1: to gg McKelvey joining US journalists, host of Pretty Lies

224
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,280
Speaker 1: and Alibis and you can find her at Pretty Lies

225
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,400
Speaker 1: and Alibis dot org. GG thank you for being with

226
00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:58,600
Speaker 1: us bring us up to date.

227
00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,080
Speaker 6: Well, the last thing we've heard, obviously is this autopsy report,

228
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,839
Speaker 6: which is horrific just to even imagine she was potentially

229
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,120
Speaker 6: dismembered while alive. Otherwise, we haven't learned a whole lot

230
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,280
Speaker 6: as far as the investigation goes. They've been very tight lipped.

231
00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,800
Speaker 6: We do know about the workers, how they were hired

232
00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,800
Speaker 6: for five hundred dollars to haul these garbage bags off.

233
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,200
Speaker 6: We're a little suspicious when they were told this was

234
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,080
Speaker 6: a bag of rocks and said it felt mushy and soft.

235
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,760
Speaker 6: So they pull over, open the bag and see there's

236
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,680
Speaker 6: human remains in there, specifically seeing a belly button which

237
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,760
Speaker 6: matches the torso the homeless man found the next day.

238
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,440
Speaker 6: It's insane. These guys go to two different police stations

239
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,720
Speaker 6: to report what they've seen, only to be given the

240
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,680
Speaker 6: run around. In the meantime, Gosh knows what Samuel is

241
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,000
Speaker 6: out hiding as far as evidence. Ultimately the police go

242
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,560
Speaker 6: after they the homeless man finds the body the torso

243
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:52,960
Speaker 6: the next morning in that dumpster. Go to the house.

244
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,520
Speaker 6: See the blood on the concrete in the driveway. Go

245
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,120
Speaker 6: in the house and find evidence that something horrific has

246
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,520
Speaker 6: happened in this house, as well as finding garbage bags

247
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,720
Speaker 6: with bloody beg clothing in the garage.

248
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:10,760
Speaker 1: Guys, speaking of the day workers, you know that they

249
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,920
Speaker 1: would have been blamed for May's murder if they had

250
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,800
Speaker 1: not called police immediately. Now they were turned down at

251
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,160
Speaker 1: not one, but two that we know of ELI law

252
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,440
Speaker 1: enforcement agencies, and they keep trying to report they've got

253
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,080
Speaker 1: a body in a bag and no one will listen.

254
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,800
Speaker 1: Now you know if they had not done that, that

255
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,160
Speaker 1: ultimately they would have ended up taking the fall for this,

256
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,200
Speaker 1: And I wonder is that not exactly what Sam Haskell

257
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:46,280
Speaker 1: intended when he called them to remove the remains? Speaking

258
00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,480
Speaker 1: of those nine one one calls, listen to what we've

259
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:49,520
Speaker 1: just obtained.

260
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,520
Speaker 7: Assable CD for fifteen cold stream terrasts for one one

261
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,640
Speaker 7: fight cold stream terrists march Or Commons. So if here

262
00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,040
Speaker 7: any mind in front of fiping.

263
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,040
Speaker 1: Good, let's hear that one one more time. It was

264
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:02,520
Speaker 1: so quick, I want to make sure I hear it

265
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,880
Speaker 1: all fellossible.

266
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,320
Speaker 7: CD forty one fifteen coldstream terrists for one one fight

267
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,680
Speaker 7: coldstream terrists, Marster Commons. So the fire say mine in

268
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:13,000
Speaker 7: front of fipingos and.

269
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,480
Speaker 1: Joining me is high profile lawyer Matthew Mangino, former district

270
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,280
Speaker 1: attorney and author of the Executioners told listen to this

271
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,920
Speaker 1: the crimes ares Trials, Appeals, last Meals and final Words

272
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,800
Speaker 1: and executions. Matthew, thank you for being with us. You

273
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:34,880
Speaker 1: can find Matthew and Matthew Mattmanngino dot com. Matthew a

274
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,040
Speaker 1: lot of people. I mean, I think we need to

275
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,680
Speaker 1: focus on where are the two missing in laws. May's

276
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:45,720
Speaker 1: mother and father who move here. They're the ones that

277
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,960
Speaker 1: sold everything they had to put her through college. She

278
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:54,600
Speaker 1: was an excellent student. Sadly that is when she met

279
00:16:55,120 --> 00:17:04,240
Speaker 1: rich Bratt Sam Haskell the fourth. They sacrificed everything, even

280
00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:08,240
Speaker 1: selling their home and moving here to try and help

281
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:14,119
Speaker 1: their daughter get a better life. Now they're dead, and

282
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:19,000
Speaker 1: they moved into that house. Goshim and zeng Wang moved

283
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,199
Speaker 1: into the house to take care of the children and

284
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:27,320
Speaker 1: help her because she is the only breadwinner in the home.

285
00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:32,040
Speaker 1: I think their house note was, oh my goodness, like

286
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,919
Speaker 1: seven thousand dollars a month. She was paying the house

287
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:42,399
Speaker 1: note and everything else while haschool. Sam Haskell fourth, his

288
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:49,800
Speaker 1: daddy's a millionaire, was pursuing his crazy videos that he

289
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:54,200
Speaker 1: called movies, while she's holding down the fort paying all

290
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,680
Speaker 1: the bills. They're gone, and it has been said, it's

291
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,960
Speaker 1: been told to me by her neighbors, her friend girls

292
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,520
Speaker 1: that he hated her parents. They were not fluent in English,

293
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,080
Speaker 1: and he resented that he hated that they were there

294
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,440
Speaker 1: all the time. Well, I mean they're the only ones

295
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,760
Speaker 1: taking care of the children along with May. I don't

296
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,239
Speaker 1: know what he's doing running around in the backyard doing

297
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,840
Speaker 1: videos of himself and his friends and working out and

298
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,479
Speaker 1: going to expensive lunch is Oh, hey, you know what,

299
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go out of order. You got to hear

300
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,840
Speaker 1: what haskell while his wife is out working. Hey, I

301
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,040
Speaker 1: don't have a problem with that. My mom worked. Her

302
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,120
Speaker 1: mother worked in a factory for Pete's sake, and farmed.

303
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,320
Speaker 1: But I want you to hear this is what he's

304
00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:39,400
Speaker 1: doing during the day while May is out working and

305
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,520
Speaker 1: her parents are taking care of his children. Take a

306
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:45,800
Speaker 1: listen to him. He posted this on his TikTok.

307
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:52,840
Speaker 5: Listen like, my resume says unhappy, bitter, resentful. Now I'm

308
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,920
Speaker 5: consistently never gonna stop drinking, shouts out to the.

309
00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 8: Waiter at the restaurant above norstrums for just like completely

310
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,159
Speaker 8: burning out of my filet Like, what kind of a

311
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 8: monster are you?

312
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 5: Homie?

313
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:12,840
Speaker 1: Do you hear this guy? I mean, he grew up

314
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 1: in the lap of luxury and he's saying, what kind

315
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:22,080
Speaker 1: of a monster are you? Homie? So he is out

316
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,840
Speaker 1: at this fancy restaurant at Nordstrums. I don't even buy

317
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,800
Speaker 1: a pair of socks in there, getting a steak a

318
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:34,760
Speaker 1: filet and whining on TikTok that it was cooked too

319
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 1: well while May is working. I mean, it would be

320
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,760
Speaker 1: a cold day in HG doublel that David Lynch did

321
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,160
Speaker 1: not go out that door at six point thirty every

322
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:50,200
Speaker 1: morning and go to work. All right, but all that aside,

323
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,960
Speaker 1: Let's get right back to what we know right now.

324
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,480
Speaker 1: I want you to hear more about the torso found

325
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 1: the dumpster. But first I was talking to Matthew Mangino. Matthew,

326
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,600
Speaker 1: I'll blame you for that rent. You forced me to

327
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 1: go on, Matthew, what about this? Why didn't police go

328
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 1: in when they were called by the day laborers stating

329
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 1: this guy just gave us a torso to get rid of?

330
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,880
Speaker 1: The police say they went to the location and didn't

331
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 1: see anything wrong and left. Wouldn't that have been exigent circumstances?

332
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,159
Speaker 9: Well, I think Nancy, first of all, I mean you

333
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 9: have to put it in perspective. I mean, you get

334
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 9: a call that these day workers found a torso. Okay,

335
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,920
Speaker 9: so you might be a little skeptical on the way

336
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,199
Speaker 9: out there, whether you should be or you shouldn't. And

337
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 9: certainly when you get there and you don't find anything

338
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 9: on the porch or you know, in the driveway. Yeah,

339
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,719
Speaker 9: they possibly could be exigen circumstances which would permit you

340
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,159
Speaker 9: to go in in with idle warrant to search to

341
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 9: see if there's anything amiss. But you know, I think

342
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,479
Speaker 9: you know more than anything else. The police are a

343
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:06,440
Speaker 9: bit caught off guard by what's described to them. Does

344
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,879
Speaker 9: that mean that they shouldn't do their job, that they

345
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 9: shouldn't follow through on this tip that was given to

346
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 9: them by the day workers? You know, I think it's

347
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 9: something you know that we can look back as a

348
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 9: Monday morning quarterback and say, hey, listen, you should have

349
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 9: went in immediately. That may have not made any difference

350
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 9: in the case. Obviously, if there's a torso in a bag,

351
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:32,680
Speaker 9: the person's already dead. The question is is there anybody

352
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,199
Speaker 9: else at risk? Possibly the parents that we know are

353
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 9: now missing.

354
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,680
Speaker 1: Well, I guarantee you this, Matthew Manino. If they had

355
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,439
Speaker 1: gone in based on what the day laborer said, they

356
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 1: would have been barbecued, skiword and run out of town, okay,

357
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 1: because it would be their fault that they went in

358
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,919
Speaker 1: without a warrant, So that's a state of affairs in

359
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,680
Speaker 1: that jurisdiction. But I want to tell you something else

360
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 1: that I learned, Matthew Mangino. One of the victims was

361
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 1: sixty four years old old husband, the wife was fifty nine,

362
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 1: and all of their photos, everything they had online for

363
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: the last ten years, it was all deleted after after

364
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 1: they all go missing. They had five siblings who were

365
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 1: trying to find the mom. I confirmed that they put

366
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 1: May through cal State at Northward, sacrificing everything and moving

367
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 1: to the US to help her start her career in accounting,

368
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 1: even as I said, selling their home to pay for

369
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 1: her school. Not only that, she got a job at

370
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 1: Monterey Park to pay for May's education, May was stuck

371
00:22:55,160 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 1: with a seven thousand dollars mortgage. Hschool never helped her,

372
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 1: and the in laws were the ones to take care

373
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 1: of the children. Those are just a few little background

374
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 1: information that I learned. But I wanted to go to you, Matthew,

375
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: about whether the cops should have gone in. This comes

376
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 1: from a very old and revered US Supreme Court case

377
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: US versus Carol exigent circumstances, and it's so old it

378
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: dates back to the moonshine days where the cops, the

379
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 1: moon the revenuers, the irs, the tax man could never

380
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 1: catch the moonshiners because as soon as they got win,

381
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 1: they were on the way to break up. Still they

382
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 1: take off with all the moonshine so and you could

383
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: see their car dragging in the back with everything in

384
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 1: the trunk. And that's where exigence circumstances came from. The

385
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: evidence is leaving. We're losing the evidence that now applies

386
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 1: to modern day cases such as this one. Yes, no, man, Geno, Well.

387
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 9: I would say yes. And as you know, Nancy, you

388
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 9: know a lot of the constitution protections that we have

389
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 9: grew out of that era of moonshiners in prohibition. But

390
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 9: you know, the thing that I think you need to

391
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:13,959
Speaker 9: be careful of is certainly you have a report of

392
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 9: a body or some portion of a body, and you

393
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 9: want to make sure, as police officers that you don't

394
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 9: do anything that could jeopardize an investigation. So if you

395
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 9: go into this home, even though there may be exigen circumstances,

396
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 9: and you confront somebody and you begin to ask questions,

397
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 9: you know, do you put all that information that you

398
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 9: might gain at risk because a court determines that there

399
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 9: weren't exgen circumstances at that time. If you received a

400
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 9: report that there was a portion of a body at Torso,

401
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 9: well what are the exigen circumstances?

402
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 1: Well, you know, Matthew, in this jurisdiction, if the cops

403
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 1: had gone in, they would have been skeward. They probably

404
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: all lose their jobs for Pete's without actually seeing something

405
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 1: in the home. To back up the day laborers. As

406
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, our cut nineteen, we hear LAPD

407
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: Chief Michael Moore addressing it listen.

408
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 8: The bags that the individuals had referred to having existed

409
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 8: were not there, which limited the officer's ability to act

410
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 8: any further as far as moving into the home that

411
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,199
Speaker 8: was there that there was no one coming out or

412
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 8: talking to us from now as we know, with the

413
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 8: follow up investigation that resulted in the following morning where

414
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 8: another individual found what appears to be human remains in

415
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 8: a garbage container some distance away, we tied that together

416
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 8: with this earlier report and detectives rolled back and now

417
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 8: Robert homicide has what we believe to be a very

418
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 8: tragic circumstance of a death of a mother and potentially

419
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 8: her parents at the hands of her husband, and we

420
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 8: have a murder investigation that's going on with that.

421
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Greece. In the last hours, we

422
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 1: are learning more about what we do we can get

423
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 1: about the autopsy report and what it reveals about the

424
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: death of May. To Mike McCormick joining US high profile

425
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: lead investigator mcm investigations in La at mcminvestigations dot com. Mike,

426
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I think me and

427
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: Gino is right. I think that it doesn't matter. By

428
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: the time, according to police, he's not been found guilty yet.

429
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: By the time Haskell had put May's body parts in

430
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 1: a bag, her parents were long dead. So if cops

431
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: had gone in the day before, what would they have found.

432
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: They might have found their bodies as well. I doubt

433
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: it because he was already in the disposal phase. He

434
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: was getting rid of stuff by the time the day

435
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: laborers had been called. That said, we don't need any

436
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 1: of that evidence that the cops may have gotten the

437
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: day before, because we have that torso, and we have

438
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: Haskell calling the laborers asking them to remove the torso.

439
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: So let me ask you this, Mike, McCormick. No one's

440
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: been talking about where are the parents? What are we

441
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 1: just going to pretend that never happened. They're dead, likely

442
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: dismembered as well. What is being done, if anything, and

443
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: what would you do to try to find these two

444
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 1: elderly people. They were just trying to help their daughter

445
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 1: get through school and take care for children.

446
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 10: Well, I think the whole thing fell apart when the

447
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 10: day laborers went to the They first went to the

448
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 10: California Highway Patrol and we're turned away. They went to

449
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 10: LAPD and we're told to call them. The officer that

450
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 10: they talked to with LAPDH didn't speak Spanish, but he

451
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 10: should have gotten somebody that spoke Spanish and that should

452
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 10: have been handled immediately. The fact that they sent them away,

453
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 10: I think, and that delay in time is a big problem.

454
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: I think it's a huge problem. Doctor Jury old Cross

455
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: and I want to follow up. Doctor Jury is as psychologist,

456
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: former law enforcement now faculty at Saint Leo University and

457
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: author of Operation SS at dodtorjury dot com dodtor Jory.

458
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: I've heard a lot about May's death that were seemingly

459
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: ignoring that her parents had been murdered too.

460
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 11: That's the first thing that I look at the behavior pattern,

461
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 11: and it'd be very important to locate their bodies, because

462
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 11: then you could put together a behavioral sequence like where

463
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 11: they killed, dismembered. You brought that up. There's a lot

464
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 11: of other unanswered questions psychologically, especially with the suspect. Knowing

465
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 11: a little bit more about him, I think you could

466
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 11: pretty well profile his behavior as to his actions and

467
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 11: what he did in the sequence of the murders and

468
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 11: the disposal of the bodies of the parents.

469
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just wondering, was he attacking the parents

470
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: and may tried to intervene. I wonder if the children

471
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: knew what happened. I believe they were home when all

472
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: three were murdered. And speaking about a window into this

473
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: guy's personality, dare I look, I want you to take

474
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: a listen to some of the sound that we've gotten

475
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: off of his TikTok. Now, this is not anything that's

476
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: been fabricated against him. He did this to himself. Let's

477
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: start with Oh gosh, where should I start? This is

478
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: from Tragic Streets, so.

479
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 5: Psych a hapic vampire move like pull up an escalate

480
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 5: outside Paul Wesley's.

481
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 3: Crow pits like down, where's mom going?

482
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 11: What's mom doing?

483
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 5: He's just like, Oh, I'm just gonna go show with Brad.

484
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 5: She's gonna go show with Brad Pitt for a while,

485
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 5: maybe go to a concert.

486
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: Why does this guy have all this time gg McKelvey

487
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: to create Oh dear gravy what? Yeah? He adjusts his

488
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: hair more than any diva I have ever seen on

489
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: TV or movies. I mean he's spouting like he's Kim

490
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: Kardashian in one of her poses that she's gonna make

491
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty grand off of from at an ad.

492
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: Who is this guy? I would absolutely call nine one

493
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: one if my husband did that, no question about it,

494
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: no question and the pumping iron. He's a Jim rat.

495
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: Why is he doing all this while his wife is

496
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: out working double time to support his Sorry We're end.

497
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 6: I think he's a classic example of failure to launch.

498
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 6: It's like he's stuck being this teenager that has a

499
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 6: TikTok account that wants to tell the world all the

500
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 6: ridiculous stuff that happens.

501
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: In their day.

502
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 6: What you don't hear is any talk of his three kids.

503
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 6: I mean, you would never look at this guy from

504
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 6: his TikTok videos or anything. Anybody who's known them and

505
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 6: say he's a very doting dad, he's very hands on.

506
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you would never even know this guy had

507
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: a wife or kids.

508
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 6: It just seems like he's living out this little fantasy

509
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 6: world of being a TikTok star and I want to

510
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 6: be producer where his clips literally only landed on Facebook

511
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 6: and seen by a couple of thousand people. He's just

512
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 6: trying to reach, reach, reach, and it's really pathetic. I

513
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 6: mean it's just I look at this and it's very cringey.

514
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 6: It's like, this is a thirty something year old man

515
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 6: who's married with three children, and yet he looks like

516
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 6: he's fourteen on TikTok with nothing else to do.

517
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: Guys, I think he even oils up his body for

518
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: some of these shots, you know, like professional body boulders. Okay,

519
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: I'm going way down the garden path out in the ways.

520
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: Let's get it back on the road. Could you please

521
00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: play thirty four? This is Sam Haskell yet again over

522
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: sharing on TikTok conference.

523
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 5: Real quick, you guys, by mistake, and the number one

524
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 5: thing they talked about was consistency, Like be consistent now

525
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 5: I'm consistently never going to stop drinking.

526
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,959
Speaker 1: So I wonder if the state, if the defense is

527
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: going to try and use voluntary intoxication as a defense.

528
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: That's not going to work, is it, Mangino.

529
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 9: No, voluntary intoxication is extremely difficult defense. Now, you know,

530
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 9: involuntary toxic intoxication or you know drug use could be

531
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 9: a defense. The only thing that voluntary intoxication could do

532
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 9: would be maybe mitigate the punishment. But it's not going

533
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 9: to negate his responsibility.

534
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: I want to go back to Joe Scott Morgan joining

535
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: us Jo Scott. In the last hours, we have learned

536
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: that really the main evidence we have is May's just

537
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: member Torso we don't have her arms or legs, her

538
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: neck or head. She was completely unidentifiable, and if it

539
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: had not been for the day laborers calling in the

540
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: day before then we really wouldn't even know who she

541
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: was when the homeless person found her. That's the only

542
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: way it was tied back to being May is because

543
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: of their calls to various law enforcement. Again, we just

544
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: saw a full screen that talked about arms and legs.

545
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: That's a little misleading because they're absent. We don't have

546
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: them to deduce anything. You were saying something earlier which

547
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: I found really provocative and most likely true, as to

548
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: why you believe a power tool such as a power saw,

549
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: a handheld power saw, was used to dismember her. Why

550
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: do you say that based on the physical evidence.

551
00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 4: Well, you know that's what the me has opined are

552
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 4: put forth. They actually state that in the press release

553
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 4: that we have relative to the autopsy report. And here's

554
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 4: another thing, and I think people want to go down

555
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 4: this rabbit hole. You know, they've talked a lot about

556
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 4: Haskell's fascination with weapons, in particular samurai swords. This guy

557
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 4: can assure you it's not a samurai master, all right.

558
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 4: So the idea, and I know people are entertaining this,

559
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 4: that he could have dismembered her with one fail swoop

560
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 4: of some ancient blade that he's in possession of, is

561
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 4: a load of crap. That's not happening. He took his time,

562
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 4: and in order to take your time to do this

563
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 4: with a power tool, you have to have a closed

564
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 4: space in order to do that. Gigi really brought this

565
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 4: point home just a moment ago when she stated that

566
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 4: it was a mess, a horrible mess inside of that house.

567
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 4: I suspect that you're going to have blood mixtures that

568
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 4: are in there that might go to the parents, and

569
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,919
Speaker 4: obviously are going to go to this poor woman who

570
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 4: he has brutalized. And LA has got hell of a

571
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 4: problem in this case. And this is why this is

572
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 4: one of the most densely populated areas in our nation. Nancy,

573
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 4: I think because we look. You know, you always talk

574
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 4: about if you want to, if you want to know

575
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 4: a horse, check their record. We do know that he

576
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 4: made an attempt to dispose of her body in a dumpster.

577
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 4: Dollars to donuts, Nancy, I guarantee you those bodies were

578
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 4: placed in a dumpster. And now now you're talking about

579
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 4: landfill and for a CSI for crime seene investigator, forensic scientists,

580
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 4: you're talking about the nightmare of all nightmare scenarios because

581
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 4: it's so vast in La County where you can dump

582
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 4: this stuff off and they're going to have to get

583
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 4: the timing down relative to when trash pickup happen. We

584
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 4: can all identify with that. Is that something we have

585
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 4: in common as just living in our own little towns,

586
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 4: and they have this down. It's the idea, can the

587
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 4: investigators go back and try to paste this out and

588
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 4: get an idea where they would have gone to, where

589
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 4: those dumpsters would have gone to. You're talking about Encino,

590
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 4: where the first one where they talked about finding that

591
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 4: in the dumpster, but they were domiciled in Tarzana, I believe.

592
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 4: So that again adds another element to this of complication.

593
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: Also, back out to Gigi. You know he has shown

594
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: up in court again shirtless and he is refusing to

595
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: wear his anti self harm vest. You know a lot

596
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,720
Speaker 1: of people say, oh, he's crazy. I actually think, based

597
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: on all of his prior videos posts, he's actually showing

598
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: off his chest in court. He's like flexing his muscles

599
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,760
Speaker 1: in court. I think he did that on purpose.

600
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, he said he had a pre existing medical condition

601
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 6: that prevented him from wearing the vest, but come on,

602
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 6: TikTok videos are so self serving, it's hard to think

603
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 6: that he just didn't want everybody to see his chest

604
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 6: and his tattoos. And it's just it goes along the

605
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 6: line with everything we've seen about him, which is his

606
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 6: favorite word, is me, me, me, me, all about him,

607
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 6: not about his wife, not about his kids. So I'm

608
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 6: not surprised, probably the next year and we'll see the same.

609
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 6: I wouldn't doubt it for one second.

610
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: I mean, you know what, you know what Mark Klass said,

611
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: And guys, he is a champion of victims' rights. His

612
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: daughter Polly was kidnapped from her own place where she

613
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: lived with her mother. She was sexybused, and murdered. When

614
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: cop showed up at Mark Klass's door, he said, come in,

615
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: bring the dogs, take my fingerprints, take my blood, take anything.

616
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: Look at my carlic at my office. Do whatever you

617
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: need to do, but find Polly. Find who took Polly.

618
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: Are we hearing that from Haskell? No, we're not hearing

619
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: I didn't do this. Do whatever you want with me,

620
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: but find who killed my wife. Nothing nothing at all,

621
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: As Gigi just said, nothing about anyone but himself. And

622
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 1: you know that video of him whining about the Nordstrom

623
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: restaurant shift overdoing his Filet Mignon, that's ingrained in my memory.

624
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: You know how many times I play that in front

625
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: of that jury, about a million. We wait as just

626
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: as unfolds. Goodbye, friend,