Speaker 1: Pushkin. When Run DMC Sucker MC started spinning on small
Speaker 1: radio stations around New York City in nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 1: Believe it or not, this was new school, the cutting edge.
Speaker 1: Sucker MC's was the B side to Run DMC's first single,
Speaker 1: It's like that. These songs completely changed the sound of
Speaker 1: hip hop in the early eighties. They're sparse, bass, heavy beats,
Speaker 1: and aggressive rhymes. Represented the real hip hop her live
Speaker 1: at block parties and clubs and the Bronx and queens.
Speaker 1: It was a huge leap forward from the first ever
Speaker 1: hip hop releases from groups like The Sugar Hill Gang
Speaker 1: and Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, who are putting
Speaker 1: out polished R and B influenced records. Joseph run Simmons,
Speaker 1: Jason jam Maaster, j Mizelle and our guests today Darryl
Speaker 1: dmc McDaniels came together in nineteen eighty three, not long
Speaker 1: before the release of those first two songs. As Run DMC.
Speaker 1: They helped define the look and sound of hip hop
Speaker 1: in the eighties worldwide. Their true pioneers, who have had
Speaker 1: no shortage of first in their career, including the first
Speaker 1: ever hip hop group to go gold, then platinum, then
Speaker 1: multi platinum. There were also the first rappers on MTV
Speaker 1: and on the cover of Rolling Stone. Rick Reubin and
Speaker 1: DMC have been friends since the early days of Run DMC,
Speaker 1: when Rick founded Deaf Jam Records with runs older brother
Speaker 1: and produced two of the group's classic albums, and of
Speaker 1: course their collaboration with Aerosmith Walked This Way and this
Speaker 1: candid conversation between old friends. You'll hear how DMC and
Speaker 1: Run formed the group and also how despite a career
Speaker 1: full of accolades, DMC struggled for years with suicidal thoughts.
Speaker 1: The only thing that kept him alive during its darkest
Speaker 1: days was a song he heard on light FM. Brace
Speaker 1: Yourself for a wild story about Sarah McLaughlin's song Angel.
Speaker 1: You'll never hear the song the same again. This is
Speaker 1: broken record liner notes for the digital a I'm justin
Speaker 1: ma Here's Rick Rubin and Darryl dmc McDaniels. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for doing this. First of all, thank you
Speaker 1: for having met. The last time we talked, you told
Speaker 1: me an incredible story that blew my mind. And it's
Speaker 1: been long enough now where I don't remember all of
Speaker 1: the details, but I remember I left feeling different than
Speaker 1: I felt, Like what you said changed me just hearing
Speaker 1: the story. Really Yeah, so maybe you couldn't tell me
Speaker 1: the story again? Um, well is it? Is it the
Speaker 1: Sarah McLachlan story. Yeah, about how her records saved my life? Yes,
Speaker 1: but tell me from the beginning, like, oh, in the beginning, Um,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, Yeah, Down went to King, Yes, which
Speaker 1: was produced by Pete Rock, one of the greatest produces. Yes.
Speaker 1: Ever that record Pete hates when I say this, Dan
Speaker 1: went the King did for Rundy m c what walked
Speaker 1: this way? People say he did for Arrowsmith. It put
Speaker 1: us back. Prior to that, we were respected, yes, praised, pioneers, legends,
Speaker 1: but hip hop had changed. Yes, nobody cared. We're not
Speaker 1: on the radio, We're not on him TV no more.
Speaker 1: We had love, but we wasn't participating anymore. So Pete
Speaker 1: Rock produces the title track on the Down with the
Speaker 1: King album, and that record just put us back on
Speaker 1: the road, put us back on a chart, put us
Speaker 1: back on tour. Now we're in the midst of what
Speaker 1: was going on in the nineties, and you would think
Speaker 1: that that would make me happy. And the eighties was again,
Speaker 1: eighties money on the nineties were getting the nineties money
Speaker 1: when everybody was getting there. As soon as that record
Speaker 1: drop Rick, something in me said, I don't want to
Speaker 1: live no more. Was it instantaneous? Did it happen in
Speaker 1: a moment or did it build over time? It wasn't
Speaker 1: a moment. It happened. I woke up one day when
Speaker 1: everybody was like, Yo, the videos are smash and the records,
Speaker 1: you're back on a chart and you're going on the road.
Speaker 1: You're gonna open for Naughty by Nature. When we got
Speaker 1: on the road, when we started tune, we started making
Speaker 1: that money again, something in me just said, I don't
Speaker 1: want to live. And it was like disvoiding me and
Speaker 1: I was leaving. I was coming off a stage. Everything.
Speaker 1: It was a new feeling. You never had an experience
Speaker 1: that I never had experience. Out of the blue, Yes,
Speaker 1: out of the blue. And interesting too that it was
Speaker 1: triggered by things going good, not by things going bad. Right,
Speaker 1: It's interesting, right, exactly, very interesting. Yeah. I tell people that, Yo,
Speaker 1: every thing was good in this seven it's interesting. So
Speaker 1: I would go back to my hotel room and I
Speaker 1: would just lay there and it was just the dread
Speaker 1: of the world that was on me, and that happened
Speaker 1: probably for like, I don't know, I was going through that.
Speaker 1: I was going through that for six and seven. It
Speaker 1: was saying six or seven months. And then in six
Speaker 1: and seven do you remember how old you were at
Speaker 1: that time? I was thirty five, okay, thirty third, thirty four,
Speaker 1: thirty five, you know, um And the six or seventh
Speaker 1: month for that, I just laid in my band. I said, okay,
Speaker 1: what's going on with me? And I went through my
Speaker 1: life and who I was. Okay, I'm Daryl McDaniels from
Speaker 1: Hollis Queens, New York, bif and and ban is my mother,
Speaker 1: Alfred's my brother, remember, son of Bifford, brother of al
Speaker 1: bann As my mother, and runs my paler. It's McDaniels,
Speaker 1: not McDonald's. These rhymes are Daryl's. Those Burghers are Roynalds.
Speaker 1: I ran down my family tree, my mother, my father,
Speaker 1: my brother and me. Okay run my friend, Jay's my
Speaker 1: friend just think called hip hop comes over the bridge
Speaker 1: from the Bronx. We made one record that was a hit.
Speaker 1: We made another record who was a hit. We made
Speaker 1: an album Boom Boom. Idida's everything. Now I'm back on
Speaker 1: the road. Were down with King lefeisos a good? Why
Speaker 1: do I feel like this? Had no idea what it was.
Speaker 1: So I'm going through that routine every day, every day,
Speaker 1: every day, and that void in me and that feeling
Speaker 1: got so uncomfortable that now I'm thinking I don't want
Speaker 1: to learn them more. Now you would think I would
Speaker 1: have everything ale I'm DMC. I had a wife and
Speaker 1: a kid at that time. Down with the King is killing, yes,
Speaker 1: But this feeling on me made me say that I
Speaker 1: can't live like this. This is very uncomfortable, which is
Speaker 1: the worst feeling of it. So now I find myself
Speaker 1: trying to think a way to kill myself. We go
Speaker 1: over to Europe. I remember we go over to Europe
Speaker 1: one time and we was like in Um. We was
Speaker 1: in Um Austria somewhere, and we was we wasn't in
Speaker 1: the big city, was in those little towns outside of Austria.
Speaker 1: And we had did an interview and when we was
Speaker 1: up on the roof of the building, I noticed they
Speaker 1: didn't have no guardrails like most hotels after guardrails or whatnot.
Speaker 1: So after we did the interview, we went back downstairs
Speaker 1: and I remember Eric going being a lobby sixth story
Speaker 1: for sale, checking order us the routine, and I remember
Speaker 1: I went in my room and I waited, okay, run
Speaker 1: Jay and Eric should be in the room stud I
Speaker 1: go to my door and I look, nobody's in the hallway.
Speaker 1: So I said, let me run upstairs before the hotel
Speaker 1: security gout comes and locks the door again. So I
Speaker 1: remember running upstairs and this true story. Run upstairs and
Speaker 1: I get up on a ledge and I keep her
Speaker 1: aware with y'all I'm standing there, and then something in
Speaker 1: me says, y'all if I jump and down to day,
Speaker 1: people know the DMC story, run DMC story. They know
Speaker 1: just what behind the music, two books, movies, the Wikipedia, Google,
Speaker 1: you could find out what I did with me running Jay,
Speaker 1: but nobody knows about the little boy Daryl. So I
Speaker 1: jumped back down. Can I say, before I kill myself,
Speaker 1: I want to write this book. So I didn't want
Speaker 1: to kill myself right there, because I wanted to write
Speaker 1: a book and say, what's up world, I'm DMC from
Speaker 1: the groundbreaking rapt run DMC, First to Go, Go, First
Speaker 1: to Go, planting the first On the cover of Rolling Stone,
Speaker 1: Blassie blades and blue back. So that was one of
Speaker 1: my plans. So we go to Europe, then we go
Speaker 1: to Japan. I go to Japan. I'm thinking of going
Speaker 1: to the heart one storing, buying, poisoning, and killing myself.
Speaker 1: And tell me, I'm just it's bad. I come home.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of shooting myself. Did you tell anyone at
Speaker 1: this time? No, no, nobody, nobody were living with all
Speaker 1: this pain by myself, suffering with it yourself, right, nobody knows.
Speaker 1: Nobody knows. So fast forward. We come home from Europe
Speaker 1: one trip, and I'm living in Jersey at this time.
Speaker 1: So this was the this, this was the last straw.
Speaker 1: The travel Asian couldn't fly me in the North, so
Speaker 1: she flies me in the JFK and I live in Jersey.
Speaker 1: So I remember coming home that day and I said
Speaker 1: to myself, that's it. Life is so fucking fucked up.
Speaker 1: I'm kid, I'm fucking coming home from JFK and I'm
Speaker 1: really thinking that like these little things is adding to
Speaker 1: this feeling, and so somebody, I'm gonna do it. Nothing fun,
Speaker 1: it's over now. This is proof the universe is showing
Speaker 1: me I gotta kill myself. So I come out and
Speaker 1: I get in the car. I getting a guy. The
Speaker 1: guy's talk town card is picking me up, and you
Speaker 1: know he's being He turns around, you doing mister McDaniels, Rain,
Speaker 1: New Jersey, and I'm like, yes, cool. So we're driving.
Speaker 1: As we leave in JFK, we stop at the first
Speaker 1: light because it's like two or three lights coming out
Speaker 1: of JFK, and I could I saw the guy looking
Speaker 1: at me. I felt the guy looking at me in
Speaker 1: the reverview mirror. So every time I would turn to
Speaker 1: look at him in the mirror, he would turn his head.
Speaker 1: So we got to the second light and I felt
Speaker 1: him looking again. I look up, you turn this at
Speaker 1: So it got to the third light, I caught him
Speaker 1: and when he caught my eyes, he just turned around
Speaker 1: and said, mister dmc man, please don't tell my boss man.
Speaker 1: I might get fired for this. Man. But when I
Speaker 1: was younger, your music got me through the hardest times
Speaker 1: in my life. This in that sucking seas I used
Speaker 1: to go in my room and your room, your music
Speaker 1: got me through the hardest time in your life. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm going I'm like, oh cool, cool, So
Speaker 1: he said, please don't tell my boys. Man, can I
Speaker 1: get a picture with you? And I'm like, yo, that's yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't need a pitch. I'll give you an autograph.
Speaker 1: What really? So now he's open. So we drive and
Speaker 1: he says, you do your mind if I turn the
Speaker 1: radio on, and I'm like yeah. So he turns the
Speaker 1: radio to Hot ninety seven. That was the last thing
Speaker 1: I wanted to hear. And I'm like, yo, man, turn
Speaker 1: it to any of the station and except that, and
Speaker 1: he's like okay. So he turns the station, turns it
Speaker 1: to light FM. I hear these pianos boom, boom, and
Speaker 1: then I hit his voice, It's been all your time
Speaker 1: waiting for that second chance. I hear Sarah maclachlin's Arms
Speaker 1: of the Angel and something said, yo, d life may
Speaker 1: be messed up, but if something this beautiful exists, it's
Speaker 1: good to be alive every day. So for one whole year,
Speaker 1: all I did every day I walk up was listening
Speaker 1: to the song. When I went to the gym. I'm
Speaker 1: back in the gym. People looking at me. They're probably
Speaker 1: thinking I'm listening to the LEDs Zethelin or some techno
Speaker 1: or something. I had that on every day for a
Speaker 1: whole year. At the end of that year, Eric, who
Speaker 1: was still with me now him and Tracy Miller, our publicist,
Speaker 1: was like, keep Darryl busy. We know he's going to something,
Speaker 1: so he was just trying to keep me busy. So
Speaker 1: Eric gets tickets to come out here to LA to
Speaker 1: Clive davis Grammy party. He comes to me and said,
Speaker 1: jo d Man, We're going to LA. I got two
Speaker 1: tickets to grow fuck Clive Davis LA. For all I
Speaker 1: need to do is stay here and listen to the
Speaker 1: Sarah mclochny story. He's like, Yo, come on here. I said, no,
Speaker 1: I don't need to do nothing, and he just looks
Speaker 1: at me and this only this is funny, this only bething.
Speaker 1: He looks at me and said, yo, d I worked
Speaker 1: real hard to get these tickets because it's I said,
Speaker 1: this fool probably gonna sold his soul to the devil
Speaker 1: to go to Clive david stupid party. And I say, okay, Ja, Eric,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with you. So Eric is like, Yo,
Speaker 1: he's doing a manager, Yo, go do the red carpet.
Speaker 1: You know, he's thinking business, this networking stuff like that.
Speaker 1: I said, motherfucker, I only came here because of your
Speaker 1: ass wanted to come to the stupid party. I'm staying
Speaker 1: one album. I'm pulling up a chair right head by
Speaker 1: this door, and the one album going back to my
Speaker 1: room to listen to Sarah Mclocklin because it was just
Speaker 1: something in that record, the vibal of it made me
Speaker 1: feel not alone no more. Do you think it's the
Speaker 1: words or the music or the combination. I think it
Speaker 1: was a combination of it, especially in this dark, cold
Speaker 1: hotel room. She knows because that's what I was doing,
Speaker 1: I see. And she felt like she was singing to you. Yep,
Speaker 1: like she made that, like that record was made for me. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So I go to the
Speaker 1: I'm Clive Davis party and Eric it's like yo, come on,
Speaker 1: and I'm like countdown now, but again it's fifty ninety seven.
Speaker 1: So he walks away frustrated. So I'm sitting there, hey,
Speaker 1: um by the front door. Stevie Wonder comes in. His
Speaker 1: boy seen me, and his boy turns Steven to be like, yo, Stevie,
Speaker 1: come over him. N DMC wanted me too, So Stevie
Speaker 1: comes over to me and I'm in my head, I'm
Speaker 1: that just true story work. I'm like this, I'm talking
Speaker 1: to myself, Stevie, fucking wonder the motherfucker fallen busses. Yeah,
Speaker 1: really like the fun don't yeah, don't come on the
Speaker 1: fuck Steve before like I was, I said that, Wow,
Speaker 1: so his boy come. I'm smiling, Hey, Stevie, listening it.
Speaker 1: You guys are great. Whatever. He walks away and it
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with him. It just like all
Speaker 1: of this is bullshit, all the fucking see. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: walks away. Next person cause Alicia Keys comes in. She
Speaker 1: sees me, oh dmc oh, I know Ryn, I know,
Speaker 1: Russellulan Camre. I never see you. How you doing? Fucking
Speaker 1: Alicia killed the fucking piano falls and breaks your finger.
Speaker 1: Like I'm just thinking, and I'm laughing now because I
Speaker 1: can't believe it was thinking like that, get away from me,
Speaker 1: like fucking come over here, like and she walks away.
Speaker 1: I look up, who's coming in? A lady that made
Speaker 1: that record? Oh my god, Sarah, and you and you
Speaker 1: recognize that, yes, oh my god, that's that lady who
Speaker 1: made that record. Like I knew of northing, but I
Speaker 1: didn't even know. Oh shoot, so some let me see
Speaker 1: r D get up and go over there and tell
Speaker 1: her about what her music did. So I'm walking over
Speaker 1: to Sarah and she sees me run DMC. It's tricky
Speaker 1: to rocker Ryn, rocker Ryn, it's right on time. My
Speaker 1: didas she does the being boys stands like, yo, you
Speaker 1: guys are great whatever whatever. So in my head I go, yo,
Speaker 1: See Daryl, that's the reason to stay alive. Even Sarah
Speaker 1: McLaughlin like your music, so I just go, Miss McLaughlin,
Speaker 1: I just want to tell you the name of the
Speaker 1: record is an Angel. You sound like an angel. People
Speaker 1: say you're an angel, but you're not an angel to me.
Speaker 1: Your God. Every day of my living there for the
Speaker 1: last year, all I do is listen to your record.
Speaker 1: It's the crutch that I stand on. It's the thing
Speaker 1: that gets me to my day. I just rant and
Speaker 1: raved us. So I finished. I'm standing in the sweating
Speaker 1: So she's looking at me like this, So Shana what
Speaker 1: to say? She was like, damn, I just wanted to
Speaker 1: say how it is ass, But she looks at me
Speaker 1: and says, thank you for telling me that, Daryl, that's
Speaker 1: what music is supposed to do, shakes my hand and
Speaker 1: walks away. So you know me the fay. I'm never
Speaker 1: watching this hand again. I'm just feeling good, like that
Speaker 1: was the best thing ever and stuff like that. Eric
Speaker 1: comes over. I'm shining like the sun. Now what happened
Speaker 1: to yo? I'm just met Sara mcluklin and this and
Speaker 1: it so that made me today. So I go home
Speaker 1: and I go, um, y'all finally, you know, I want
Speaker 1: to write this book. I'm gonna write this book. So
Speaker 1: I said in a book I want to do that.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, yo, what's up world. I'm Daryl McDaniels
Speaker 1: from Holles Queens, New York, from the groundbreaking rap group
Speaker 1: run DMC, first to Go Go First, to go Platinum,
Speaker 1: first on the cover Rolling Stone, for all of that stuff.
Speaker 1: But I'm really just Darrel Matthews McDaniels from hollesce Queen's,
Speaker 1: New York. Was born May thirty first, nineteen sixty four.
Speaker 1: And when I got to that part of my identity,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I know my birthday, but I
Speaker 1: don't know no details about the dad was born. So
Speaker 1: I called my mother and I go, hey, Mom, I'm
Speaker 1: writing this book. I didn't say I'm writing this book
Speaker 1: just in case I die and kill myself because she
Speaker 1: would have lost it. I just want to know a
Speaker 1: couple of more details about the dad was born, how
Speaker 1: much did I weigh? What time I always born in
Speaker 1: my hospital? So she tells me, thank you, Mama, I
Speaker 1: love you. Hang up the phone. An hour goes by,
Speaker 1: the phone rings. It's my mother and my father. Hey son,
Speaker 1: Hey dad, what's going on? We have something else to
Speaker 1: tell you. So I'm a metaphysical suicidal religious emotional records
Speaker 1: about to commit suicide. The only thing keeping me from
Speaker 1: jumping is this Sarah mclock corectly. My mother father hit
Speaker 1: me with this. Um, we have something else to tell you, Okay,
Speaker 1: what is it? You was a month old when we
Speaker 1: brought you home, and you're adopted, but we love you
Speaker 1: by click wow wing stop ricking wow my god. Now
Speaker 1: you know when I heard that, I wasn't with you me.
Speaker 1: I'm not Byford and Paris and you're my whole fan.
Speaker 1: I rhymed about you Christmas time and I was queen.
Speaker 1: But what the hell is going on? Universe? That's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: And it was really a short conversation that that quick.
Speaker 1: We have someone else to tell you, Okay, what is it?
Speaker 1: You was a month old when we brought you home
Speaker 1: and we love you by click because it was when
Speaker 1: I think because they were just they didn't know how
Speaker 1: to handle. They said, we have to tell him. My
Speaker 1: mother hung up the phone and said, Byford, he's writing
Speaker 1: a book and he's about there. My father was like,
Speaker 1: we gotta call him back and let him know. It
Speaker 1: was a secret. They hit from me, my whole life. Yes,
Speaker 1: even though it's as trum manica, is that retive revelation
Speaker 1: was Yes, all of that trauma, in the shock, the
Speaker 1: destroying capacity of that revelation. Yes, something happened where a
Speaker 1: calm just came over me, Something made me realize devoid
Speaker 1: in me that started making me what the hell is
Speaker 1: going on? Down with the king? Is it? There was
Speaker 1: a missing piece to my identity. Wow. I'm John McDaniels, Hollies, Queens,
Speaker 1: New York, son of Bye friend Man Diet has walked
Speaker 1: this way. But I'm adopting just a quick break and
Speaker 1: we'll get right back into DMC's story. We're back with DMC,
Speaker 1: who's telling a powerful story about his depression. After years
Speaker 1: of fighting suicidal thoughts, he received a phone call from
Speaker 1: his parents informing him that he was adopted. There was
Speaker 1: a missing piece to my identity. I'm John McDaniels, Hollies, Queens,
Speaker 1: New York, son of Bye friend man Diet has walked
Speaker 1: this way, but I'm adopting. Wow. So I came to
Speaker 1: the revelation. I didn't fight that, yes, well this and that.
Speaker 1: I said, Okay, I know what that means because I'm
Speaker 1: a good student. That means I have another mother and
Speaker 1: the father, and there's this whole other part of me.
Speaker 1: But now that I'm adopted, that's just part of who
Speaker 1: I am. And then the next thing was, oh, maybe
Speaker 1: I can help somebody, beautiful, Maybe I can help somebody. Now,
Speaker 1: I gotta don't kill yourself, D, because you can rhyme
Speaker 1: and you make records for a reason. So I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get that lady who made a record that
Speaker 1: helped me. I'm gonna make I'm gonna make it with her.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, Eric, get Sarah on the phone. D.
Speaker 1: What's the hell? You don't know what the hell is
Speaker 1: going on? You know what I'm saying. I'm say, just
Speaker 1: getting on the phone. Kill Okay. Um. It took like
Speaker 1: probably it was a day later, Eric calls me, yo,
Speaker 1: d pick up your phone. In five minute, Sarah's gonna
Speaker 1: call you phone ring, Hi, Daryl, It's Sarah. So now Rick,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, oh man, I'm sweating. Now I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh man. And she thought it was crazy, you know.
Speaker 1: And this was a period of three years after I
Speaker 1: met her. I forgot to tell you that. This was
Speaker 1: three years later when all this happened, and you've had
Speaker 1: no contacts and no contact with her. At the party, yeah,
Speaker 1: you talked to her for two minutes yep. And then
Speaker 1: oh yeah, but I'm listening to the right you know.
Speaker 1: On top of that, here's the funny part about there.
Speaker 1: On top of that, it all started with the Angel record.
Speaker 1: But after that, my wife goes out and Boss building
Speaker 1: a mystery and all the previous albums, So now I
Speaker 1: know all those others songs. So Sarah's on the phone
Speaker 1: and I go, hey, miss mclaucher, how are you doing.
Speaker 1: She says, how are you doing? And I was like,
Speaker 1: she's funny, I said, remember when I met you three
Speaker 1: years ago. She says, how could I forget you? You
Speaker 1: call me god? So she was like she had I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, yeah, I said, well, remember when I
Speaker 1: met you and I told you what your music did
Speaker 1: for me, And she said yeah. I said, well, I
Speaker 1: just found out that I'm adopted, and I want to
Speaker 1: make a song that's going to speak to some people
Speaker 1: who you know, the orphans and the four us two
Speaker 1: kids and adopted kids like me. And I want to
Speaker 1: make a song and I want to use Harry Chapin's
Speaker 1: Cats in the Cradle. Will you do this re record
Speaker 1: with me? Immediately she goes, sure, yes, I'll do it,
Speaker 1: because usually it's let me talk to my label, let
Speaker 1: me talk to my man. And I'm like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: like really, really okay, I'll bring you to New York
Speaker 1: City this when a hit factory was still open. I'll
Speaker 1: put you in the hit factory just in there. I
Speaker 1: put you in the Fourth Sea. She says, no, Darryl,
Speaker 1: you could come to my house and we'll make it there.
Speaker 1: I have a studio in my house, So now I'm
Speaker 1: a fan. Set change. We on the plane flying to Vancouver, Canada,
Speaker 1: and I look over the Eric and I said, Eric,
Speaker 1: if I died tomorrow, don't say that. D stop saying no, Eric,
Speaker 1: you know this is funny. Not know, Eric, really if
Speaker 1: I die, I don't hear you. Eric, No, I say,
Speaker 1: motherfucker stopped listening to me, motherfucker. If I died tomorrow,
Speaker 1: and you can if anybody ask me, what do you
Speaker 1: think thee's greatest time? You tell the motherfucker's that the
Speaker 1: greatest thing that ever happened. Tode was going to Sea
Speaker 1: mcclacklerhouse to make a record. Whether you got it, motherfucker, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got it. Like it was like wow. So we
Speaker 1: land in Vancouver. It took us two days to make
Speaker 1: the record. When we finished recording, I was like, Sarah,
Speaker 1: thank you for this. She goes, Darren, before you go,
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you something. She says, I was adopted too.
Speaker 1: And I did not know that. I did not. Everybody
Speaker 1: with me, Eric and the people from UM it was UM,
Speaker 1: the publicists with me, and some other people that Arista
Speaker 1: Records has sent with me, they all lost it. I
Speaker 1: did not know she was adopted too. How crazy is that?
Speaker 1: It's amazing, it's amas crazy, it's amazed, it's beautiful. And
Speaker 1: ever in the music. Yeah, it's in the music. It's
Speaker 1: and felt it in the music. Yep, and ever ever
Speaker 1: since that day, um my thing was suicide, anxiety, lone leanness,
Speaker 1: this and that. Yo, we all, Oh you are not alone. Yes,
Speaker 1: I was in a place where, you know, even when
Speaker 1: I found out I was adopted, I didn't feel right
Speaker 1: around Running, Jay and Eric and them because they didn't
Speaker 1: understand what was going on to me. And even Run
Speaker 1: even said because he don't know, Run said to him,
Speaker 1: and he was right, he said, motherfucker's see how Run is?
Speaker 1: Motherfuckers sucking a bifon and Banners your mother and father.
Speaker 1: And I looked at Runner, I said, I know that,
Speaker 1: But also I have a right to these other emotions
Speaker 1: because when I found out what I was adopted, immediately
Speaker 1: I'll started going, I wonder if what my mother was
Speaker 1: to look like? And this and so all of those
Speaker 1: wild why why was I giving up this? And that?
Speaker 1: Boom bag? But I was able to maintain those through
Speaker 1: the music. Yes, knowing that I'm bifing and Banner is
Speaker 1: the bomb. Yes, you know what I'm saying. And they
Speaker 1: were and they were your mom and dad, your whole
Speaker 1: life and great exactly and great that example, and they
Speaker 1: chose you. Yeah, that's a whole other level. That's a hope.
Speaker 1: They chose right. They chose you, so Sarah, and then
Speaker 1: you know it's deeply in the music too. That's why
Speaker 1: I identify with her vibe identified. There was nothing on
Speaker 1: its earth, yes, that made me feel like staying here
Speaker 1: except of you know what I'm saying. It was public
Speaker 1: information that she was adopted, but she don't talk about it.
Speaker 1: I didn't have to die for that. No, it was
Speaker 1: just amazing. I'm wondering if you know they say as souls,
Speaker 1: we choose our parents, and I'm and it's interesting that
Speaker 1: your your parents chose you, and and that on some
Speaker 1: level you felt that you felt but you felt that
Speaker 1: disconnect because we're used to picking like right, right, right.
Speaker 1: I had so much love, like growing up, I had
Speaker 1: so much love that there was never thought in my
Speaker 1: mind that I wasn't a McDaniels. Yes. The funny thing Rick,
Speaker 1: after all of this was happening, after the whole Sarah thing,
Speaker 1: and all of that confidence had me say, yo, go
Speaker 1: to therapy, d Yes, deal with your feelings. It's okay
Speaker 1: to have this feelings even if the world think you
Speaker 1: and you're not a knuckle and you're not weird, you're
Speaker 1: not crazy. You need to go talk to somebody yes,
Speaker 1: So I went to therapy. And matter of fact, I
Speaker 1: went to therapy. I've discovered therapy because that helped me
Speaker 1: stop drinking. Because member, I used to drink a lot
Speaker 1: of forties. Yes, I used to drink a lot of drinker.
Speaker 1: I was drinking a case of forties a day. Wow.
Speaker 1: But I stopped. This is funny, Oh, I forgot to
Speaker 1: tell you that before Down with the King came out.
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety one, I was diagnosed with a cute pancreatitis.
Speaker 1: So I was in the hospital for a month and
Speaker 1: a half. I couldn't take anything orally. I had to
Speaker 1: take all my nurse man intravenously because I was like, yo,
Speaker 1: your liver and your pear cris is going bananas. So
Speaker 1: now I'm scared. But here's a miraculous thing. All my
Speaker 1: tests came back clean. And I was drinking that Not
Speaker 1: only that, I was drinking brass Monkey with the dcs,
Speaker 1: Bacardi and coke in that era. And then in ninety
Speaker 1: one I stopped. My doctor looked at me and said,
Speaker 1: you have two choices, son, you could um drink and
Speaker 1: die or not drink and live. So I was I
Speaker 1: wasn't drinking during down with the king Um in two thousand.
Speaker 1: Though in two thousand I started drinking again. Me and
Speaker 1: Sarah did the record this and that. But this is funny.
Speaker 1: I wasn't dealing with the feelings. You know what I'm
Speaker 1: saying A resolve in my head. I'm okay, I said
Speaker 1: to myself, okay. But I really wasn't okay because I
Speaker 1: didn't sit there and you know, let's let's talk about
Speaker 1: how do you feel about being adopted? How do you
Speaker 1: feel about your mother and father not telling you this
Speaker 1: and that. I just looked at I'm good, I love
Speaker 1: being and there. But I kind of had these emotions.
Speaker 1: And when the emotions started rising up, I started drinking again.
Speaker 1: When I stopped drinking in ninety one, it was Bacardi
Speaker 1: and coke and rum and coke and screwdrivers and all English.
Speaker 1: Now starting to drink again. Now I got this new
Speaker 1: thing called Hennessey and Jim Bean Jack Daniel. So I
Speaker 1: was drinking that and my wife looked at me. This
Speaker 1: is what made me go to rehab to stop drinking.
Speaker 1: My wife looked at me. In UM two thousand and four,
Speaker 1: I said, I'm drinking to celebrate my victory and my
Speaker 1: new found missing identity. My wife said, motherfucker, you're drinking
Speaker 1: because you can't handle the fact that your parents just
Speaker 1: told you you were adopted. And that made me go, wow,
Speaker 1: stop living a life, dy stop living a lie. D Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course you're happy. It's Sarah record this and that
Speaker 1: and not going to kill yourself no more. But now
Speaker 1: I subconsciously found a way to kill myself and not
Speaker 1: have to deal with them, because that's that's well, I'm
Speaker 1: already thinking of killing myself. Now my parents revealing me
Speaker 1: you're adopted, you're gonna feel some way about it. Did
Speaker 1: where that the initial I'll call it depression, the first
Speaker 1: round of when I first hit you, I didn't know
Speaker 1: it was that. Yeah, but we'll call it that. So
Speaker 1: now we're on the same we're using the same terms.
Speaker 1: When the depression hit. Had you already stopped drinking that
Speaker 1: first time? Yeah, because I'm stop drinking, that's when the
Speaker 1: depression came. That's what I was just gonna say, is
Speaker 1: that maybe, but you must be a therapist because you're
Speaker 1: leading this right into what happened. It makes perfect sense.
Speaker 1: It makes perfect sense that you stopped drinking and then
Speaker 1: you started feeling your feelings. Yes, Greg, my wife says
Speaker 1: that to me. I city, I can't deny She's right. Eric,
Speaker 1: Kathy yes from the office Kathy and Eric goes to
Speaker 1: Leo and says, Leo, we gotta fucking put d in rehab.
Speaker 1: So I'm not kidding you. I'm not. I was a
Speaker 1: functional drug, yes, you know. I wasn't like you, d Man,
Speaker 1: you're fucking killing yourself. Yes. I found a way not
Speaker 1: to use the gun, not to jump, and not to
Speaker 1: drink toison do the thing that my wife said. Mother,
Speaker 1: she said, Darrel, it's not like you. You should doctor
Speaker 1: already told doctor already told you that it's going to
Speaker 1: kill you, and you're doing it like it's Yeah, I
Speaker 1: go into rehab to stop drinking. When I went in
Speaker 1: to rehab to stop drinking as well, I could discover therapy.
Speaker 1: Rick is so crazy. You know what. I was diagnosed
Speaker 1: with suppressed emotions. My therapist said, you was drinking so
Speaker 1: you didn't have to deal with your feeling, he said,
Speaker 1: all through the time. The first question he asked me
Speaker 1: was this when I went into therapy, he said, Daryl,
Speaker 1: during your career with run DMC, did run JA or
Speaker 1: anybody ever do anything to make you mad, and I
Speaker 1: said no. I sat there and I said no. Rick,
Speaker 1: my therapist m he was. I was thirty five when
Speaker 1: I went into therapy. My therapist was he had to be.
Speaker 1: I think it was like forty six or forty seven.
Speaker 1: He knew how I was and stuff like that. He
Speaker 1: came in with the white doctor cloak on and the
Speaker 1: notepad and everything. Daryl, during your career with running him
Speaker 1: see that anybody ever do anything to make you mad?
Speaker 1: You know I'm sitting there thinking I gotta go. No.
Speaker 1: He put his head, true servant, he put his bad down,
Speaker 1: he stood up, he took off his doctor cloak. He
Speaker 1: wanted to get real with me. And he looked me
Speaker 1: in my eyes and he said, you a goddamn motherfucking liar.
Speaker 1: And when he said that to me, yeah, man, in
Speaker 1: eighty five, when they like, he said what I would do,
Speaker 1: and he said my problem was this, and he said
Speaker 1: it had a lot to do with um post traumatic
Speaker 1: thing from being adopted. Yes, I didn't want to be
Speaker 1: given away again. I want to be the guy. Don't
Speaker 1: don't think that I didn't know. Subconsciously, I knew my
Speaker 1: first mother gave me away, So I want to be.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be a troublemaker. I don't want
Speaker 1: to call me running Jay. Never I shout it though,
Speaker 1: Yeah me running Jay. I watched Running Jay. You see
Speaker 1: the motherfuck? They would argue and this is it. I
Speaker 1: would sit there, What you would you like me to do?
Speaker 1: I don't want to be a troublemaker. I was diagnosed
Speaker 1: with suppressed emotions. Makes sense because I was using the
Speaker 1: old English, yes to suppressed. That's why I mean every
Speaker 1: ray drunk Old English. He just didn't drink a case.
Speaker 1: Smith drunk three. I drunk twelve. Yes, as soon as
Speaker 1: the how I was going on to me, I don't
Speaker 1: want to I want to feel. I was diagnosed with
Speaker 1: suppressed emotions, so I went in to stop drinking. When
Speaker 1: I went in the rehab as where I discovered therapy,
Speaker 1: which was the best thing for me, because then now
Speaker 1: I'm dealing with my truth. How do you feel? Yes,
Speaker 1: I gotta saying, now you might not have even known
Speaker 1: how you felt before because you're so suppressed. Yes, exactly,
Speaker 1: he said, Yo, d your truth is how you really feel.
Speaker 1: And he said it's okay to feel the way that
Speaker 1: you feel, and he looked at me. He said, Yo,
Speaker 1: if you don't admit how you feel, whether good or bad,
Speaker 1: you never heal. Wow. And that journey all led up
Speaker 1: from hearing that Sarah McLaughlin record in the car. Amazing, crazy,
Speaker 1: amazing story. We'll be right back with dmcter the break.
Speaker 1: We're back with more from DMC. Let's talk about your
Speaker 1: first memories of hip hop as a kid. What was
Speaker 1: the what's the first first experience of anything having to
Speaker 1: do with rapper hip hop? Um, we've never talked about this.
Speaker 1: Seventh grade Saint Pascal Baylon Elementary School. Billy Morris was
Speaker 1: in the eighth grade. He was he was older than us, me,
Speaker 1: David Sinclair, and I forgot who else was in the
Speaker 1: schoolyard playing basketball on the one room that's the Catholic
Speaker 1: school and in the schoolyard, and Billy goes, Yo, come in.
Speaker 1: We said, Yo, why Billy want us? Let's tell YO.
Speaker 1: He probably want us to smoke some reefer or something like.
Speaker 1: This is before I even took a pull on the
Speaker 1: joint and whatever. So Billy does what the bullies usually do. Yo,
Speaker 1: I said, come here. I ain't gonna say it again,
Speaker 1: so me I'll go Yo. It's three of us in
Speaker 1: one of him. If he tried anything, we ain't know
Speaker 1: what was gonna happen. It's three of us want to
Speaker 1: try anything. You gotta jump him. So we're scared. We
Speaker 1: come over Billy scared because we think we gotta fight
Speaker 1: now smoke refer He says, Yo, check this out. He
Speaker 1: pulls out a flat tape recorder. This is before the
Speaker 1: boom box even existed. They was in schools and you
Speaker 1: push the jacket pops up like that. You thought he
Speaker 1: had one of those. He said, check this out. He
Speaker 1: hit play and something said, dad, tact dad, And then
Speaker 1: a voice said, when you messed around in New Yorktown,
Speaker 1: you go down with the disco Cheeba clown. You go down,
Speaker 1: go down, go down. You just keep the pep in
Speaker 1: your step. You don't stop till you get on the
Speaker 1: mountain top and when you reach the top, you reach
Speaker 1: your peak. That's when you hear Eddie Cheeba's speak. And
Speaker 1: it stopped a minute and thirty said, yo, do that again.
Speaker 1: He did it again. We stood in the school yard
Speaker 1: for three hours listening to it. I didn't know what
Speaker 1: I didn't know what whatever that was it was the
Speaker 1: I felt it it was the coolest thing ever. We
Speaker 1: start different. I was just listening to that over and
Speaker 1: it was just a little one minute one little kid
Speaker 1: had static and everything. So I had to the recording
Speaker 1: from alive. It was from a pirate radio um WFUV
Speaker 1: Eddie Chiba had a Wednesday night. He had a station.
Speaker 1: Only some people in Queen's could get it if you,
Speaker 1: depending where you was your house was situated. So I
Speaker 1: hit Billy with the question, your billy, man, can I
Speaker 1: hold your tape? Hell no, Daryl mcdann, you just can't
Speaker 1: hold my mother fucking tape this and that. You know, Billy,
Speaker 1: I'll give you my allowance. I'll run home and give you.
Speaker 1: I'll steal my father's car keys and give you. He's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: y'all come home and no. So he saw he just
Speaker 1: saw that I really wanted. It was a Friday afternoon.
Speaker 1: He said, Daryl, you're a good kid. You can hold up.
Speaker 1: Bring my fucking tape back Monday morning. Yes, So the
Speaker 1: whole weekend, Friday night, all the way till Saturday Sunday,
Speaker 1: I hated. I dreaded to give it back back. The
Speaker 1: whole weekend. I just sat there listening to that over
Speaker 1: and over and over. Monday, I gave it back to
Speaker 1: Billy and that was it, Rickett, that was it. I
Speaker 1: went back to my comic book Skateboard Bike Riding Self,
Speaker 1: Summer Comes School, let's out, Summer Comes Now. Because of
Speaker 1: the tape, it was always here, but I I it
Speaker 1: wasn't my world yet. Now I'm noticing, Oh, that's what
Speaker 1: they do in the park when the van comes and
Speaker 1: they put the records out, and then they played the
Speaker 1: speakers on and they started talking over the music. It
Speaker 1: was still pretty new, right, it's so new. Oh no,
Speaker 1: if it hadn't really had it was very new and
Speaker 1: soaked in. Like I heard it and didn't know about it.
Speaker 1: I heard it and then went away. Yes, so that's
Speaker 1: when I started, No, oh, that's it was just this,
Speaker 1: rick I'm round my bike to the part. So at
Speaker 1: that time they were probably no, there wasn't even um
Speaker 1: nobody knew what was going on in the Bronx. It
Speaker 1: was just happening live at parties, every block part right,
Speaker 1: So that summer even for the sugar Hill gag, right,
Speaker 1: we had way before the sugar Hill gag. This this
Speaker 1: probably was what the seventy this seventy but I remember
Speaker 1: the bi centennial came when the by centennial quarters came
Speaker 1: out the seven seventy eight, it was seventy eight because
Speaker 1: I graduated. I graduated eighth grade in seventy nine. This
Speaker 1: was seventy eight. So my brother comes to me, so, Jo, Daryl,
Speaker 1: we gotta get some turntables in the mix. And I'm like, yeah, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: you know I'm the little brother whatever whatever. So we
Speaker 1: had a problem. Rick. We didn't sell weed. The guysa
Speaker 1: so we have money. They was getting the good stuff.
Speaker 1: All we had was my mother and father's receiver with
Speaker 1: their their bullshit turntable and two bullshit win speakers. My
Speaker 1: brother Alpha, we had a whole bit big comic book collection.
Speaker 1: He said, Yo, we're gonna do a comic book sales,
Speaker 1: so we could get enough money to get one Gemini'm
Speaker 1: Up and Down mix up and one more BSR Wood turntable.
Speaker 1: So we did that. So the next thing that happened,
Speaker 1: this is when it began for me. A friend of
Speaker 1: mine had a box up the cassette thing with this
Speaker 1: guy named Grandmaster Flash and Grandmass. The Flash was doing
Speaker 1: the Real Good Times, which rappers the like sample. But
Speaker 1: he made it do this. It came on, um, you know,
Speaker 1: good bees are the good time and the guy was
Speaker 1: on the mike, Ladies and gentlemen, gentlemen, the Grand brand
Speaker 1: Master Master flat, and I was those vocals were more
Speaker 1: dynamic than hip hop. Down was what the fuck with
Speaker 1: the cho What the hell is this, Ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 1: The Grand Master flash that she said, ding ling ling
Speaker 1: ling ling, good times, boom boom, boom, bump bump, bump bump,
Speaker 1: good times, boom boom. By the fuck he's a doing
Speaker 1: no bump, bump, bump, bump, good tip. Then it's a
Speaker 1: good time, good Denn, it's a good good, good good.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna cut the funk out of there because you've
Speaker 1: got magic rigors, no video. I'm listening. What the fire
Speaker 1: did he make good times? Do that shit? So now
Speaker 1: I go down in the basement and I'm taking my
Speaker 1: brothers records and Anthony's things, and I'm trying to do
Speaker 1: the thing I heard on the tape. Took me a
Speaker 1: while to get it, but then I was able to
Speaker 1: do the quick mix of good Times great. I was
Speaker 1: my own DJ, my DJ name. In my basement, I
Speaker 1: was pretending I was Grandmaster Get High because you don't
Speaker 1: need all English a weed because my music will intoxic
Speaker 1: ate you. So it was Grandmaster Get High and MC
Speaker 1: eazy D. I was both of them and were fifteen
Speaker 1: fifteen years old, and it was all make belief, pretending,
Speaker 1: and it was just for yourself. It was I didn't
Speaker 1: want to make records and stuff like that. It's just
Speaker 1: for me, beautiful. It was yet the same way girls
Speaker 1: played with Barbie and dudes play with g I Joe.
Speaker 1: I was pretending to be whatever that thing that these
Speaker 1: guys do that not me. Yes, it was pretend, but
Speaker 1: it was the best feeling ever. That's amazing. After that,
Speaker 1: what happened was remembered. I went to Saint Pascal Bayline
Speaker 1: Elementary School. So now my routine was to come home,
Speaker 1: you know, do my homework first whatever, watch Adam's family
Speaker 1: offense stones or whatever, and then um, after I took
Speaker 1: my shower, whatever, mom, I'm going out in the basement.
Speaker 1: That was my whole routine run. Joseph Simmons was always
Speaker 1: in the other class, and we would get out of
Speaker 1: school two ten, so we'd be at my house plus
Speaker 1: two twenty and my parents would get home at four PM.
Speaker 1: He sees me and my brother's turn tables and he
Speaker 1: looks and he goes, Joe, do you do that? And
Speaker 1: I go, no, it's it's myself. I go, nah, that's
Speaker 1: my brother's turntable. So then Joe goes, Yo, my brother's
Speaker 1: Russell Russ. You ever see those flyers that's up on
Speaker 1: the telephone poles. I'm like yeah, So now I'm playing
Speaker 1: like I don't care. I got an entrance bold your
Speaker 1: brother does this rap day? He says, yeah, my brother's
Speaker 1: Russell Russe. He chose parties and um he promotes Curtis
Speaker 1: Blow and like he starts dropping names and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: I know Bam Bota and um um DJ Hollywood. So I'm,
Speaker 1: you know, acting like I don't care and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So I go I dabbled a little bit, and Joe goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: let me see what you could do. So I'll go
Speaker 1: over to turn tables. I'm showing off now Lean Lan
Speaker 1: lan Lee, good times, bon Bone, good time. Oh. Joe's like,
Speaker 1: oh shit, Well Joe knew how to DJ, but he
Speaker 1: ain't know how the batsman. So I said, he said, Yo,
Speaker 1: you gotta teach me how to do that. Man, so
Speaker 1: when I do when I go out with Curtis Blow,
Speaker 1: when my brother brings about to Curtis Blow, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do that shit for Curtis Blow. So the routine was,
Speaker 1: now we're gonna come to my house from two twenty
Speaker 1: to like, uh, from two twenty to three o'clock, we're
Speaker 1: gonna play basketball. But from three o'clock to three thirty five,
Speaker 1: we're gonna go in the basement. We're gonna DJ and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. So we started doing that. When we
Speaker 1: started doing that, that's when Joe's now he's coming over.
Speaker 1: He's bringing cassette tapes. Yo, this is me with Curtis
Speaker 1: Blow up Barn Martin and you hear Kurt my disco
Speaker 1: son DJ Run and then you're a joke. I'm on
Speaker 1: bust his little rhyme and stuff like that. So now
Speaker 1: I'm intrigued. But the whole time Rick he does that, Joe, Wow,
Speaker 1: you really do it like it's far from my mind.
Speaker 1: So the next time we're in the basement, were in
Speaker 1: a basement, I'll never forget. Joe was on the turn No,
Speaker 1: I was on the turntables, and I would always make
Speaker 1: peanut butter and jelly and potato chips for whoever was
Speaker 1: visiting my house. So Joe was sitting there and he
Speaker 1: picks up my black and white notebooks and he goes, Joe, Daryl,
Speaker 1: you rots. And I was like, yeah, this, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just a hobby. He's like, yoh, this is really good.
Speaker 1: And he looks at me, reckon, I'll never forget the
Speaker 1: day he goes, and it seemed like the whole world
Speaker 1: sloop slows down. When my brother Russell lets me make
Speaker 1: my record, I'm putting you in my group. So I
Speaker 1: look at him, like this record one day you're out
Speaker 1: the other What the fuck did you like? Foreign language?
Speaker 1: What the hell do then think? No? Now what the fun?
Speaker 1: No like? And I was like, I don't do this.
Speaker 1: That's cram flash y'all like do this. I graduate um
Speaker 1: um um. June of eighty two and August of eighty two.
Speaker 1: You know, me and Joe was hanging out. I've seeing
Speaker 1: him hang with button stuff. August eighty two. I'll never
Speaker 1: forget the phone rings. It's Joe and he goes, Yo,
Speaker 1: d Remember when I said, when I make a record,
Speaker 1: when my brother lets me make a record, I'm putting
Speaker 1: you into my group. And I'm like, yeah, grab your
Speaker 1: rom books, we're gonna make studio. We're gonna make a record.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this record called It's like that. I
Speaker 1: just want you to write a bunch of rhunds about
Speaker 1: how the world is it's like home. I'm still not
Speaker 1: say Okay, that's easy, so I write it that next
Speaker 1: the next week, it was Sunday, two pm. Joe and
Speaker 1: Larry Smith falls up to my house and takes me
Speaker 1: to Green Street Recording Studios. How many years after the
Speaker 1: first conversation years, four years later, four years later, unbelievable,
Speaker 1: four years later, And I guess I needed that four
Speaker 1: years to prep. Yeah, I had no idea this was
Speaker 1: coming over, just me loving. When Joe finally called, I
Speaker 1: was remember I heard Eddie Chie but I was writing
Speaker 1: one way. Then I heard Rappers, the lighting, super rit
Speaker 1: was writing woman. Then I heard the Chris every at
Speaker 1: every level up. Change that change that. When I heard
Speaker 1: the call Chris, this is the one that stucks. That's
Speaker 1: when the call came. So Joe, when we we had
Speaker 1: the demo that and now we're going to go to
Speaker 1: the studio to make it. Joe had to convince Russell
Speaker 1: to let me rhyme with him. Russell was like goo
Speaker 1: d smart this and that whatever whatever, but he's not you. Yes,
Speaker 1: and g Joe had seen me in the basement. Russell
Speaker 1: never so Joe saw what the world inn't see. Yes.
Speaker 1: So Joe was like, yo, Joe, you got it. So
Speaker 1: Russell was like, okay, Daryl can record and slight that
Speaker 1: with you. So we make it like that, and then
Speaker 1: Joe goes in and records Suck Him Seas, which was
Speaker 1: his record. Yes, that's why three times on the record.
Speaker 1: So we did it like that. Joe Russell was um
Speaker 1: not impressed, but ino d I like your voice, like
Speaker 1: you know. He was liked like you. But he wrote
Speaker 1: some good rounds like you know. But he still wasn't
Speaker 1: so he was like, he was, so okay, I'll give
Speaker 1: it to you. I'll give it. The record was good,
Speaker 1: this and that. So Joe going and drop Suck Him Sees.
Speaker 1: Joe comes out the booth. Now I was supposed to
Speaker 1: be it'slight that Suck Him Seas was all here, Joe goes,
Speaker 1: Joe d going in and put a verse on it. No, no,
Speaker 1: you ain't gonna get Russell mad at me. Hell, the
Speaker 1: motherfucker don't even want me here. You think I'm ruining.
Speaker 1: I ain't. I'm not trying to fuck up. And already
Speaker 1: it's two in the morning. I didn't even tell my
Speaker 1: parents I'm doing this. I'm thinking I'm going into the basement.
Speaker 1: I just leave the house at two pm and it's
Speaker 1: two in the morning. So in my whole mind, I
Speaker 1: know I'm getting in trouble and my parents gonna be
Speaker 1: waiting that the motherfucker will was you at So Joe said, Yo,
Speaker 1: I want Russell to see that you do this shit.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know nothing
Speaker 1: about street kids. I'm fucking Catholic, Like you know, I
Speaker 1: didn't know nothing about that ship that he was right.
Speaker 1: He just said, going in, say your newest rhyme. So
Speaker 1: it's summer eighty two. I was a class of eighty
Speaker 1: two when I got the letter from Saint John's University
Speaker 1: and I got accepted. Before I even told my mother,
Speaker 1: I just went down in the basement. I wrote this
Speaker 1: little rhyme, I'm DMC and the place to be going
Speaker 1: to Saint John's Universe. I had that rhyme. I didn't
Speaker 1: write it for the record, I just so just just
Speaker 1: going and say your new rhyme. So going, Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: saying this new rhyme at a row. So he said,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna set it up for a DMC n if
Speaker 1: you're ready the people rocket steady, I'm driving me cars.
Speaker 1: Get your gays from getting I'm DMC and the place
Speaker 1: to be. I'll go to Saint John's University. And since
Speaker 1: Kennedy Garden out quiet, I said. The whole little rhyme
Speaker 1: and stuff like that came out to both Larry. Andy
Speaker 1: was like, Yo, Like, I'm like, what the fuck is
Speaker 1: going on? Yo? Ruck, Russell comes to Yo, Russell, you
Speaker 1: gotta heard this. Russell stands there yod that for the
Speaker 1: rest of the session. That's manager shit now for the
Speaker 1: rest of the session in Green Street. At first, Russell
Speaker 1: was avoiding me for the rest of the session. I'm
Speaker 1: just sitting there say, um, Larry, what ud You're not
Speaker 1: gonna make it home till five in the morning. Damn,
Speaker 1: I'm fucking in trouble now. But for the rest of
Speaker 1: the session. You know, we're in Green Street, New York
Speaker 1: at this time, people coming in through all times of night. Yes,
Speaker 1: everybody who came to the door Russell say, d stay
Speaker 1: the round. I can't even care about Joe. He'sa staying
Speaker 1: a round. You listen to this. He's talking about Saint
Speaker 1: John's University and that how it all came together. Amazing.
Speaker 1: When did when did Jay become part of the group?
Speaker 1: Jay became part of the group after Russell got a
Speaker 1: sign to profile. Yes. Um, Russell goes, Yo, you're gonna
Speaker 1: need a DJ if your dude shows and Joe goes,
Speaker 1: oh shit, we didn't think about that part. This is
Speaker 1: great history. Joe picks Smith first because Smith Jay was
Speaker 1: down with two fifth down, but Jay picked I mean
Speaker 1: Joe picks Smith first. Smith. Joe said, yo, man did
Speaker 1: me and Daryl McDaniels got this record? You want to
Speaker 1: be our DJ? So Smith says, yeah, I'll do that.
Speaker 1: When it was time for us to really start, Yo,
Speaker 1: we got a show coming up, Smith said, nah, man,
Speaker 1: I can't be your d's true story. Rickie goes, nah man,
Speaker 1: I can't be your DJ. Man I got a job
Speaker 1: at the post office. Yeah, so now we ain't got
Speaker 1: no DJ. So he picked j In and Javid came
Speaker 1: out DJ because we was doing a show, and um
Speaker 1: we was Our first show was in um in North
Speaker 1: Carolina at a high school. So Smith quit because he
Speaker 1: didn't see, Yeah, it wasn't real I not got a job, man,
Speaker 1: of course, got a job at the post office, of course.
Speaker 1: So Jo d didn't want to make records because he
Speaker 1: worked in a record store. He was like, I have
Speaker 1: a job. I can't do that. What do you mean? Yeah,
Speaker 1: but people don't understand how small of a world hip
Speaker 1: hop was at that time, and it wouldn't be realistic
Speaker 1: if you did have a job. You're not stopping it,
Speaker 1: stopping it to do this because nobody's going anywhere and
Speaker 1: doing that at all. No, you did it because you
Speaker 1: loved it. Yeah, yeah, I mean the whole thing was. Look,
Speaker 1: we were just happy to get out. I mean, Joe
Speaker 1: had a little bit more vision because he was it
Speaker 1: was in his living room six or he knew there
Speaker 1: was money, Like Joe knew, man, I could get some
Speaker 1: new Adidas and and and British Walkers and Puma's offerers.
Speaker 1: For me, my thing was, Wow, if I get played
Speaker 1: on Magic, I made it. It's incredible. Yeah, Like if
Speaker 1: Magic played my yeah, I made it, and that was it.
Speaker 1: We didn't know you know that it was gonna go
Speaker 1: that fun. I just bring up Smith because Smith was
Speaker 1: like nah man and I spent Mister Magic was a
Speaker 1: DJ who had a show on w HBI. First. It
Speaker 1: was one hour a week, one hour, and that was
Speaker 1: the only place you could hear any hip hop music
Speaker 1: at all at all. That was if you got your
Speaker 1: record on there, you arrived. That was it. And we
Speaker 1: would record that every week and listen to it all week,
Speaker 1: pause and records as soon as it came on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's all it was. But in the early shows
Speaker 1: we played a lot in our neighborhood. He played all
Speaker 1: the roller skating ranks. Um, you already dressed as run DMC.
Speaker 1: How how are you? What was the original presentation? Oh
Speaker 1: my god, man, I looked like a um. I looked
Speaker 1: like a kid, and I looked like a freshman in
Speaker 1: college was taking um um biology. I had on a
Speaker 1: gray silk shirts, some gabardine gray pants. Pumas, had on
Speaker 1: blue and white pumas, and Joe always thought it was cool.
Speaker 1: I had this long um um um um London fog
Speaker 1: blue trench coat. Yes, so that was the coolest thing
Speaker 1: in my wardrobe. Joe had the leather, the burgundy leather blazers,
Speaker 1: which was popular back then. Um, he had on his
Speaker 1: leash and he had on on white on white Adidas.
Speaker 1: But your man Jay, your man Jay had the fucking
Speaker 1: godfather had on. He had the fucking shams, the bearing,
Speaker 1: he had the fucking it will go Jane, you had
Speaker 1: the fucking leaves on. He at the Dida's on, He
Speaker 1: at the quarter field, he at the goose bubble, at
Speaker 1: their name played, He at the gazelles, at the due
Speaker 1: Rag hanging off. He was the coolest, always the coolest.
Speaker 1: He was always favor I miss him. I miss him
Speaker 1: all the time, think about him all the time. You
Speaker 1: have to, yeah, you have to. Most beautiful smile, Yes,
Speaker 1: most beautiful smile. Just good person, good beautiful outside of
Speaker 1: being Jay, of course, beautiful being. He brought life, flavor
Speaker 1: and everything to us. Absolutely so. Me and Run was
Speaker 1: uncoordinated as hell. Mean, I was wearing pumas. And then
Speaker 1: we started playing New York Um. We started playing um
Speaker 1: um um Um. Dancer Terrier was the hangout spot the world,
Speaker 1: and then we started moving into the rocks and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. But I first show at the Fever, Jay
Speaker 1: missed it. So DJ Star Child from the Fever DJ
Speaker 1: for us. Our second started to Jay wasn't gonna miss it.
Speaker 1: So when we pulled up on two thirds to get Jay,
Speaker 1: Jay comes checked this out right. Jake comes on the
Speaker 1: steps for that show I had on pumas Um. It's
Speaker 1: that famous picture with me and Joe got to check
Speaker 1: a jacket on. Yeah after fever, Yes, Joe Ja Ja
Speaker 1: missed that show. Yes, the second show, we got that
Speaker 1: same shit on and we pull up to Jay House
Speaker 1: and two thirds Jake comes out on a stoop. He
Speaker 1: got the big fourth speak of box, he got the
Speaker 1: Godfather had on, he got the black Adida jacket with
Speaker 1: the white stripes coming down, he got the black leaves on,
Speaker 1: and he got on brand new black and white shell
Speaker 1: to Adidas with the tongue sticking up like tombstones, and
Speaker 1: he got the laces around his neck. As soon as
Speaker 1: he stepped on the steps, before it even could come
Speaker 1: out of Larry's mouth, that mem say, Yo, that's how
Speaker 1: outfit how Jay dressed in real life. No. In ninth
Speaker 1: Brad tim that Jay was going to school like that.
Speaker 1: That's our outfit. So that the second shows the fevers
Speaker 1: the day that Rundy m C look came together as
Speaker 1: a jam Master Jay. Wow, incredible, it's crazy beautiful. So
Speaker 1: Jay dressed us, Jay dressed us and Jay Um Jay
Speaker 1: was the Jay was the vibe flavor, Yes, of every
Speaker 1: definite that we had, the fashion sense always. Oh, he
Speaker 1: was always the coolest guy that record. Also, jam Master
Speaker 1: J is one of my favorite of the Earth records.
Speaker 1: I love that rac kick off Shoes, Jump on the
Speaker 1: Job jams as they started because it's hip hop. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's real, and it's one of the it's one of
Speaker 1: the first real ones. It's like that and Sucker mcs
Speaker 1: are probably the first real hip hop Yeah, yeah, because
Speaker 1: Larry was trying to do Charon's Rocket in the pocket.
Speaker 1: If we would have did it over that, it would
Speaker 1: have been it would have been really hip hop. If
Speaker 1: we would have did it live the way we did
Speaker 1: Here we Go. We use actual big beat, yes, And
Speaker 1: that's why we did here We're Here we Go because
Speaker 1: people started saying, oh, Rundy m C selling out the
Speaker 1: commercial because they making records. People don't understand that there's, uh,
Speaker 1: there's this group of records that's the music that all
Speaker 1: of hip hop is based on, most of which are
Speaker 1: not R and B records. They could be rock records,
Speaker 1: they could be world music records, but those original those
Speaker 1: those breakbeat records, a lot of rock records of James
Speaker 1: Brown Brown ac DC. Yeah, the sound of it wasn't
Speaker 1: about so. It wasn't about the style. It was just
Speaker 1: about the groove. So it transcended any genre for sure,
Speaker 1: because in that genre of hip hop, you know we
Speaker 1: we were doing, you know we're doing it was like radio.
Speaker 1: Hip hop was different. It was different, It was different,
Speaker 1: it was very different. So that was what the whole
Speaker 1: idea of my I don't know that I knew it
Speaker 1: at the time, but my concept for deaf Jam was
Speaker 1: we gotta make music. That's like what it really what
Speaker 1: if you went to the club and you experienced him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: nobody was doing the records. Didn't sound like yes, I
Speaker 1: tell everybody we did that. We did what it was
Speaker 1: done in the parks. It was more like documentary. What
Speaker 1: we were doing, what both of us were doing, was
Speaker 1: like it was like documenting this already. We didn't invent it. No,
Speaker 1: he was there, it was just nobody was actually making it,
Speaker 1: attempting to want to do it, to desire to do it.
Speaker 1: So when when when people started saying that with me,
Speaker 1: I had to go back. That was my basis of
Speaker 1: doing the one two three and the place to be
Speaker 1: as it is playing what you said, so as it
Speaker 1: is playing to see he is d J jam massive
Speaker 1: roof yes and sought the place for fall the bac
Speaker 1: leads a fire and we all I got to tell
Speaker 1: him the crutch s groove in the record and it
Speaker 1: goes a little something like this, we don't drop no funk.
Speaker 1: It goes to one two three roa task their funk.
Speaker 1: Nobody was doing it over and now you can't put
Speaker 1: it past flash in them even for the beauty. The
Speaker 1: beauty about that is flashing them the way they dressed,
Speaker 1: they understand. I don't think the reason why they did
Speaker 1: it because they had no rappers to look up to,
Speaker 1: because they were the first My first favorite rap group
Speaker 1: was a Treacherous three based on based on those Enjoy records,
Speaker 1: which I loved, and then they signed to sugar Hill
Speaker 1: and then they made their first album and it wasn't
Speaker 1: hip hop, and I was heartbroken. And then I that
Speaker 1: was my first trying to get involved because again I
Speaker 1: know anything, I didn't know anybody. I didn't know how
Speaker 1: the record business worked, but I wanted to do that.
Speaker 1: I wanted to fix a problem as a fan. It's like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, my favorite group just went well what
Speaker 1: did they do? It's like, and I know they know
Speaker 1: it because they made the good that ever heard them make.
Speaker 1: They had to know it. I always said that every
Speaker 1: time I see Mode, they got this ri this routine
Speaker 1: over big beat Wall, it goes boof bam boom booth
Speaker 1: bat and MODI goes, can you finding MC better than me? Mo? D?
Speaker 1: Can you finding MC better than me? No? Can you
Speaker 1: finding him? See who can say he's better than special K? No?
Speaker 1: Can you finding m C? Who can rhyme up against
Speaker 1: Elason Sean? No, you can't. You can't. Anthesia saw it.
Speaker 1: You got to come with the best. And I was like, no,
Speaker 1: why didn't y'all never do that on records? So that's
Speaker 1: that's the reason. So I reached out to him and
Speaker 1: I said, let's make records together because and again I
Speaker 1: didn't know anything about the business part of it, or
Speaker 1: what a producer does or anything. I just knew it
Speaker 1: was wrong. I knew it was wrong, and I was
Speaker 1: a fan and I loved him, and I said, let's
Speaker 1: make records that sound like what you really signd like it. Well,
Speaker 1: because they said, well, we're signing a sugar Hill. I
Speaker 1: can't do that. I didn't know anything about this, right,
Speaker 1: but that's the way it did change was he said,
Speaker 1: but Special kid as a brother to Lara, He's like,
Speaker 1: you can make a record with him, and and that's
Speaker 1: how it happened. And then I met Special commentating, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that would have been a treacherous three record. Oh
Speaker 1: my goodness. Yeah, that was the original thought. You know.
Speaker 1: It was just like because it was the real hip
Speaker 1: hop what they was doing in when you walk in
Speaker 1: the club, you want to hit it. It was an experience,
Speaker 1: was so exciting, great for real. Yeah, cool man. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for Thank you for Thanks again to
Speaker 1: Darryl dmc McDaniels for sharing his remarkable story with this
Speaker 1: Since the release of his autobiography in two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: DMC received the Congressional Angels and Adoption Award for his
Speaker 1: work helping foster children. Here's song with Sarah McLaughlin and
Speaker 1: more from Run DMC visit Broken Record podcast dot com.
Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced with help from Jason Gambrell, Mia
Speaker 1: Lobell and Leah Rose for Pushkin Industries. Our theme music
Speaker 1: is by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond. Thanks for listening.