WEBVTT - The Fire Pit w/ Matt Ginella: Becoming Coore & Crenshaw [PART 2] 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:06.640 At the time the sand Hills came along, most of 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:10.520 the courses being built in the world were demographically driven. 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:14.120 The principle was you had to have population to support 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:19.919 the courses, and the courses went where people wanted to go. 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:25.480 Dick flipped that one hundred and eighty degrees built a 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:29.240 course where the average population is two people per square mile. 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:34.760 He was doing the well the proverbial field of dreams. 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:47.800 You don't know the logo on the fire nobody getting tied. 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:58.440 This is the fire pit with Matt Chenella. 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:00.040 Welcome Back, Settle in episode seven is more on the 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.600 partnership that I considered the best in the era of 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:07.280 modern minimalist golf course architecture. Bill Core and Ben Crenshaw 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.360 are currently building their thirtieth course in thirty five years 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.720 of working together. The two stories we tell today are 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:17.679 about the Kapitalua Plantation Course on Maui and sand Hills 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.720 in Nebraska. Both have had significant impact on their careers 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:26.119 as well as golf in America. In episode six, Part 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:28.480 one of Core and Crenshaw, we told the story of 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.039 Bill and Ben's early influences as it relates to course design, 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:36.840 how they met, who was involved, and why they decided 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:40.360 to team up. We left off in nineteen eighty five. 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:44.120 Bill cor of a small town in North Carolina, already 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:46.800 had worked for Pete Dye and had worked on or 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:51.960 built three courses, all in Texas, Waterwood, National, King's Crossing 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:53.720 and Rockport Country Club. 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:58.559 And knew I like certain courses and certain yeah. Thanks, 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:01.559 And I'd try to figure out why, but I really 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.040 wasn't that much into it. And when I saw what 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.080 Pete was doing, a little public course called O Colum 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.840 in high Point, I just said, Gee, this is different. 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:13.399 I wonder how you do this. 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:17.600 Meanwhile, Ben Crenshaw was the Master's champion in nineteen eighty four, 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:20.800 and in nineteen eighty five Ben had married Julie. He 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.799 had started working with Scottie Sayers, a lifetime friend who 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:27.480 became his business manager. And physically he had health issues 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:30.440 which was causing problems both on and off the course. 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.400 And yet after meeting Bill and walking Rockport Country Club, 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:36.840 he had decided he found a guy who shared the 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:41.160 same design philosophies. Bill Corr was the partner Ben needed 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:42.399 to build golf courses. 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:47.000 It was just unbelievable how this happened. Nineteen eighty five. 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:51.800 Nineteen eighty five is when Wade decided to make a 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.399 go at this, and that was the year I married Julie. 0:02:56.080 --> 0:03:01.200 So I made two really good decisions. 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:04.480 But it was Bill who resisted the idea of partnering 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:06.400 with someone for the sake of a name. 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.320 We wasn't really interested, you know, I can understand that. 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:15.000 And when it finally it came around and said, you know, 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:17.919 maybe we could give this a go. 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:22.280 Which brings us back to the end of nineteen eighty five, Bill, 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:26.200 Ben and Scotti were in on this partnership. Julie Crenshaw 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:28.040 still had her doubts. 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:29.360 And I was like, are you sure you want to 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:34.440 do this? You know, because he was struggling with his health, 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:38.280 struggling with his game. We just got married. 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:40.440 We weren't even certain he was ever going to play 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:41.840 competitive golf again. 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:45.920 Having been told for a few years and by several 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:48.680 potential clients that they liked his work, but that if 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.280 he partnered with a recognizable name, it would help sell 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:55.240 the finished product. Core was already noticing that Crenshaw was 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:58.800 getting their team seats at bigger and better meetings, and 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.200 there was even some interest from national media. 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:06.520 Ben new and I knew Ron Whitten, whom you've known 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.240 for so many years, who was the architectural editor of 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:15.520 Golf Digest. Ron Whitten came to Austin to interview us 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:20.560 for a story to do about this partnership we had found. 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:25.200 Now obviously that story, the whole foundation of it is 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:29.440 Ben's reputation and background and playing career. And here he is, 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:33.479 he's going to get involved in this design partnership. But 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:38.440 Ron Witten comes in with a tape recorder and we're 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.919 going to have this interview. He turns a tape recorder on, 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:46.640 he lays it on the table and the first question 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:50.680 he asked is, so you formed this design partnership. What's 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:56.440 the name of the company. And there's just silence. We 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.839 had never talked about it. I'm not sure i'd ever 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:03.200 th aught about it. Ben is the one who spoke 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:05.520 up and he said the name of the company is 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:09.120 Core and Crenshaw. There was no reason not to put 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:10.119 Bill up front. 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:11.560 He's the man. 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.400 And you know, I'll tell you what. Even to this day, 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:22.880 Bill leads our team. He's the leader. When he asked later, 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:25.880 I remember asking him after us, how did you come 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:33.719 up with that? It's an alphabetic order, but it sounds better. 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.880 Ben makes a good point. Core and Crenshaw sounds better 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:42.640 than Crenshaw and Core. But I asked Ben when he 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:45.560 says Bill is the leader, what exactly does that mean? 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:53.320 Interest supersedes length? And yeah, the whole world is enamored 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:57.440 with link. But interest is what I saw in Rockport 0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:58.200 Country Club. 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:03.200 He Die Roy, Die, Rod Whitman, Jack Nicholas, Dave Carry, 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:07.320 Charlie Bellair, Mike McKay and Jerry Scrooge Clark were all 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.680 key to this match, which one developer predicted would be 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:17.279 a quote disaster, had to start. He actually looked smart. 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:21.120 We started two projects. That was our goal, to try 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:23.720 to do two courses at once, you know, at the 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.760 same time if anyone would ever hire us. We weren't 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:30.120 sure that was ever going to happen, but it did. 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:35.320 We began two projects. Neither one of them were completed. 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:39.640 Both of them we actually had holes roughed and ready 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:44.640 for irrigation, and they both fell by the way during 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.839 the savings and loan crisis of the late nineteen eighties. 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:54.599 And in the process of that we committed to two 0:06:54.839 --> 0:07:00.320 other projects and lo and behold, the same thing happened. 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:03.560 So we spent the first two years of our partnership 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:08.080 producing zero nothing. I guess it was maybe a year 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.320 and a half, or could have been two years after. 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.920 He wrote the initial piece for Golf Digest, and in 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:16.880 it he said that we were the only two people 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:21.200 that ever formed a design partnership and then immediately retired 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:23.960 because that's what it looked like we had done. We 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:26.559 produced nothing. The cupboard was a little bear. 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:32.560 Of the four courses they started. The first was in Austin, 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:36.840 which was called Uplands, the second in Magnolia. They had 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:40.920 shaped eleven greens before they stopped the project. Almost thirty 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:44.840 years later. That property became blue Jack National and Tiger 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:49.400 Woods Design. The third corn crunch on Missfire, was in Baltimore, 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.440 and the fourth was in Colorado, two miles from where 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:56.160 they'd eventually build the Colorado Golf Club. I asked Bill 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:58.440 if the start stops were important to getting them where 0:07:58.440 --> 0:07:59.880 they needed to go as a team. 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:04.480 I can't truthfully say I've ever given it thought about 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.240 it in that way, but instantly my reaction is yes, 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.440 it was a very in spite of the fact to 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:16.480 how frustrating and difficult it was. It gave us the 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:20.920 opportunity to spend time together on sites, with the guys 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:27.760 with you in the process of shaping in holes and 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:33.719 going from concepts to on the ground, you know, reality, 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:41.480 and it was invaluable, you know, looking back on it, 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.160 in some ways, it could very well have been the 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:45.600 best thing that could have happened. 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:49.400 Back in the late eighties, Ben had a full time 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:52.240 job on the PGA Tour. In nineteen eighty eight, he 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:56.840 had ten top tens. He won Durau finished top twenty 0:08:56.920 --> 0:08:59.720 in all four majors, which included a fourth at the 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:04.000 mass Sters Bills on the income was building golf courses 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.439 and he needed a win. He found one doing a 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:08.800 solo project in France. 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:12.680 The company had to do a loan, and I'll assure 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:16.280 you that loan was underwritten not by my financial statement. 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:20.559 It was a boy bends and instead that we could 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:23.960 stay in business and and the other part of that, Matt, 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:26.920 you're correct. I went to went to France. We did 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:31.760 a golf course in Bordeaux. Golf maydoc for a guy 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:35.439 who became such a good friend through the years, Bernard 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:37.360 Pascasio and me. 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:48.000 Perception of golf and then mine, I both like tradition 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:53.319 and golf course you know in the like Millfield in Scotlan, 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:58.280 or Pine Valley or sey Presspine, uh which all the 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:04.440 same thing, approvissiable for the amateur and competitive for the 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:05.480 professional player. 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.680 Bernard Pascasio dipped in and out of the European Tour 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.840 from nineteen seventy one to nineteen eighty nine. He won 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:17.359 fifteen tournaments in France and played in nine World Cups. 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:21.360 The Chateau Course at Gulf Demydoc opened in nineteen eighty 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:23.800 nine and is considered one of the best courses in 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:27.600 France to this day. It remains the only cores or 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:29.800 corep in Crenshaw design in Europe. 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:39.040 Bill is a real strategy genius and respective of Natvia, 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:47.080 Bill is honest and I respect him very much. I 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:51.480 am proud and happy to know him and the best 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:52.439 in friend. 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:52.720 You know. 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:58.160 Back in Texas and still in the eighties they had 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:03.720 another bike. Scottis's stepfather was helping develop Barton Creek in Austin. 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:08.000 The first course went to Tom Fazio Corn Crenshaw. We're 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:08.480 on deck. 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.400 It was an average piece of property and I think 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:14.079 Ben and Bill did a great job, and there were 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:19.000 environmental concerns all along the way that slowed that project 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:24.559 down and really delayed that job where it actually opened. 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:29.079 After Kapalua kappoloua resort on Maui's north shore, was building 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:34.080 more golf. Mark Roffing, affectionately known as Mister Hawaii and 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.800 prior to working for NBC in the Golf Channel, was 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:38.480 put in charge. 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.200 I got involved in the plantation development and kind of 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:45.120 took the lead role in putting together the golf part 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:48.200 of the Colin Cameron, who was the chairman of Mallyland 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:50.360 and Pineapple Company, they put in the land. We did 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.760 a joint venture and he said, you're responsible for the golf, 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.440 you figure out how to do it. So off I 0:11:56.559 --> 0:12:00.240 went interviewing golf course architects and had no idea what 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:02.800 I was wanting from them, because I had no idea 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:04.559 really what I wanted. 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:05.000 It was. 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:08.680 It was kind of a blind leading the blind in 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.560 a little bit of a way, and uh, you know, 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:14.760 somehow I started talking to Ben Frenshaw. 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:15.680 It was a. 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:19.800 Seminal uh golf course in our in our career, and 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.560 you know, and just amazing happened to coincide with my 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:25.079 marriage as well. 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:27.160 It's got all these other. 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.880 Dimensions and it and it was as the piece of 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:32.559 property that I saw first. 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:35.920 And he told me about this relationship that he had 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:39.560 developed with Bill Core said, you've got to meet this man. 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:41.400 You have got to meet this man. 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:46.120 Ben was was that Coppolo, He and Julie and he 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.920 called and he said, Bill, there's a there's a site here. 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.719 I think we should consider, uh, you know, working with 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:57.200 And I remember asking him on the phone, I said, 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:58.480 what does it look like? Ben? 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:02.360 I saw it that saw playlantation fields out there of 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:08.600 pineapple everywhere, absolutely gorgeous. And he, Milt said what does 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:10.680 it look like? And I said, well, it looks like 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:13.800 land gently rising from the sea. 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:19.720 I'd never been there, I hadn't seen it, but somehow 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:23.600 rising gently from the sea conjured up images in my 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:27.680 mind that didn't quite match what I saw when I 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.760 first got there and went out with Mark Roffing. We're 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:35.560 standing out there where now the clubhouse, basically where the 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:39.079 clubhouse is now. I was looking backward up the hill 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:43.000 where at the eighteenth toll is now, looking down the hill, 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:46.360 you know, as well, towards where the first hole is, 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:52.000 and I'm just I'm speechless. I just God, it's got 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:56.520 a lot of elevation changes the slope and it's beautiful, 0:13:56.559 --> 0:14:01.120 It's stunningly beautiful. But I just didn't know quite what 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:05.079 to say other than I finally I looked at at 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:09.480 Mark and I said, Mark, when you and Ben were here? 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:12.120 And he called me. I said, what were you doing? 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:18.960 And he said, we brought a couple of coronas and 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:23.640 we watched the sunset. And I couldn't help it, Matt, 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:29.040 I just said, well, Mark, I hate to ask this question, 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:33.800 but how many coronas did you go? Hey out? 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.040 It took me about ten minutes before I fell in 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.560 love with Bill Corr And from that day on it 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.680 was like, you know, talking to the same person. I 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:51.120 remember asking Bill, you know what's going to happen if 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:52.800 you and Ben aren't here at the same time, and 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:54.440 he said, it doesn't matter. When you're talking to me, 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:56.760 you're talking to him. When you're talking to him, you're 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:58.440 talking to me. And boy was he right. 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:00.680 And when you get on the hop or parts of 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:07.120 the property, there's there's just the most beautiful sites and place. 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:12.440 It's a big part of the dimension of how how 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:16.960 the property climbs and then goes back down towards the clubhouse. 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.480 You know, for anyone who's been there, five hundred feet 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:24.200 elevation change between the seventeenth t and the like the 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:28.440 second Green, And so we would we'd be out there 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:32.040 working and I just couldn't help it. But almost every 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.640 opportunity I got when Ben was there, I would just 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.920 somehow say, you know, this is so so good. It's 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:41.680 so easy to work with. It just rises gently from 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:42.080 the sea. 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.480 They made you believe that they were going to come 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:50.600 up with something that really fit the place, and they did. 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.600 You got to remember, too, there was a big tournament 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:54.720 going on here then. 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:55.880 So for their. 0:15:55.880 --> 0:16:00.000 First real project, not only did they have an elevator 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:04.000 change of over four hundred feet seven hundred acres, they 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.480 had to play a PGA Tour event on it. That 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:10.800 is a very difficult combination of elements and sort of 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:14.560 ingredients and what had to be cooked up. But it 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:18.320 never phased him. And you know, every time Bill would 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:22.600 scratch his head, Ben would smile and laugh, and I 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:23.840 knew they would figure it out. 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.360 A couple of a plantation opened in nineteen ninety one 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:29.840 and has been the host of the PGA Tours Century 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.560 Tournament of champions since nineteen ninety nine. 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:36.800 It had to be a golf course with the enormous 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:42.560 scale in terms of the size of the features, the fairways, 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:48.480 the greens to be just to be playable. We look 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:50.840 back and just go, you know, it's different. It's a 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.440 very different type of golf course. And I have to say, 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:58.680 even today, thirty years later or whatever, I don't think 0:16:58.720 --> 0:16:59.840 we would have done it different. 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:04.000 I asked Mark Ralfing, what would have happened to Corn 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.880 Crenshaw if they didn't beat out guys like Palmer, Nicholas 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:08.640 and Fazzio for the plantation job. 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:13.240 Ben and Bill's business was a fledgling business at the time. 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:15.639 As you say, they've been at it a couple of times. 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:18.879 I think this was a critical time for them, and 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.960 had the plantation project fallen through for whatever reasons, you know, 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.280 a recession or you know, the Gulf War, if we 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:30.400 hadn't got in ahead of that, who knows, I think 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:34.040 their careers could have been decidedly different. 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:38.240 A funny thing about that is early in the company's history, 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:42.600 as we were doing the course for Mark Graffing, Mark 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:46.080 offered us. You know, at that time, our fee I 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.480 think was two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and Mark said, well, 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.199 we'll either give you your fee or you can have 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:54.879 a lot here. Well, we had a bank loan to 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:57.879 pay off, and Ben and Bill and I wanted to 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:00.320 take a salary, and we had some employees to pay 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:02.800 at that time, so we took the money and I 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:06.240 think that lot so for about five million dollars. 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:09.320 That was one of the most enjoyable times of my 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:14.159 entire career, broadcast or anything else. I just loved working 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.400 with Ben and Bill. And you know, when they came 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.000 in and started this Matt there was no Core and 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:24.360 Crenshaw style. You know, there was no sand Hills, there 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.040 was no friars Head, there was no Old Sandwich. So 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:28.840 you didn't know what the style was going to be. 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.280 And the thing I loved about him was I think 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:35.080 part of their theories evolved through the plantation for us. 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:38.840 So that's sort of landmark number one of the Core 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:43.200 Crenshaw events. Kapitalua really brought attention to us. The phone 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:47.399 started ringing in the office. People were talking about golf 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:51.120 courses and I'm not sure where Dick Young's cap actually 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:54.480 heard about us or what we were doing, but he 0:18:54.600 --> 0:19:00.320 started coming around in about nineteen ninety two, and we 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:02.240 were just wondering, what, you know, what is this guy 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:06.520 thinking about doing a course up in the middle of Nebraska. 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:09.640 Dick Young's Cap was a developer from Lincoln, Nebraska, who 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:13.520 in nineteen ninety was offered a deal on eight acres 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:18.800 of land in Mullen, population four hundred and sixty three. 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.240 Young's cap had a hunch and a vision. Now he 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:25.520 needed money and someone to build a golf course. Core 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:29.560 and Crenshaw weren't a hard sell. Others had their doubts. 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:33.840 Ben and Scottie and I were all in the office. 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:36.600 That doesn't happen very often, but we were all there. 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.960 Dick gets on the phone and he introduces himself and 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:47.000 he's he's talking about this property that's he's looking at 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:53.719 in Nebraska, And instantly he says, Nebraska. I'm thinking, you know, 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:59.359 flat probably maybe maybe not the most interesting property in 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:05.080 the world. Uh likely. And then Dick very quickly says 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.360 it's in an area called the sand Hills in Nebraska. 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:13.240 Light bulbs going matt for me and for Ben. 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:22.040 I had a magazine that I had subscribed to and 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:24.920 it was it was a It was an artist it 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:30.080 was a Texas artist magazine, and in in this thing 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:34.639 it did a layout on the cattle ranches of Nebraska. 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:38.159 I kept looking at these old photos and I said, got, 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:41.919 it looked just like Britain in Ireland and Scotland rolling 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:46.080 sand hills sand Hills of Nebraska. 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:48.920 As for Bill, he first met ron Whitten in the 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:53.400 late seventies back in Huntsville, Texas. Went Still, an assistant 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.760 district attorney, was writing a book about golf course architecture 0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:58.200 and stopped in at Waterwood. 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:03.399 I said something about, what's the best land for golf 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:07.920 you've ever seen? He said in Nebraska. I got Nebraska, 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:10.840 And what are you talking about? He said, Bill, There's 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:14.159 a place called Sandhills in Nebraska. He said, It's just 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.680 some of the most magnificent land for golf I have 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:20.240 ever seen anywhere in the world. 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:23.240 And then in the late eighties, Bill was at Prairie 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:26.119 Dunes in Kansas walking with Doug Peterson, who was the 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:27.400 superintendent at the time. 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.920 I was walking down the eighth fairway with Doug and 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:37.680 looking at those heaving contours in the dunes. That Perry 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:41.560 mix will just lay that incredible that hole on And 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:44.280 I said to Doug. I said, Doug, can you imagine 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:47.000 having a piece of property like this to work with? 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:51.399 And I remember distinctly mad Doug looked at me and 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:55.080 he goes, Bill, I know where there's land better than this. 0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:57.760 And I'm looking at him, go what what are you 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:01.840 talking about? How can anything be better than this? He said, well, 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:05.800 maybe it's not better, it's just more of it. And 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:07.879 he said into sand Hills and Nebraska. 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:10.960 Well, needless to say, Bill was in. 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:16.480 Let's go see it. Let's let's go see it. So yeah, 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:20.959 Ben and Scottie and I all went up there to 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:24.119 get our first look at what would become sand Hills 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:24.640 Golf Club. 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:29.960 We flew up and we could tell from North Platte. 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:32.000 We kind of cast our eyes up to the north. 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:34.040 I said, God, a mighty look at these dunes or 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:38.639 dunes everywhere. And so he took us up in this 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:42.320 helicopter and it was the damned this site the rest 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:45.960 of the day, and looking at all this property, we're going, 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:49.080 oh my god, it's so vast. We had no idea, 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:54.600 and Dick wanted us to go up north, which was 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:57.760 gotten forty five miles up north of North Platte. And 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:03.800 we're seeing great ground wherever we looked. So we couldn't 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:04.879 figure that out. 0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:07.080 But we had never seen anything like it. Man, the 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:11.399 everywhere you looked, you just felt like, this is just incredible. 0:23:11.600 --> 0:23:15.240 It's incredible wild on Earth? Has this not become a 0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:16.600 golf mecca. 0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:20.080 It wasn't exactly love at first sight for all of 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:21.760 Team Corn Crunshaw. 0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:25.160 Scotty went with us up there to meet Dick Young's 0:23:25.200 --> 0:23:29.120 cap to look at this site. Where Scotty got they 0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:33.240 had a van and admittedly, as Ben said, there's a 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:36.040 helicopter there. So Ben and I'm getting this helicopter. Now 0:23:36.040 --> 0:23:38.680 we're flying all over We're not talking about a mile 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:42.160 or two, We're talking many miles, looking at all these 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:45.840 different dunes, and we land and then we get out. 0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:49.919 Dick youngerscap is in the van with Scotty in the 0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:53.320 back and they're trying to keep up with us in 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:54.080 the helicopter. 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:56.720 And so about seven of us get back in this 0:23:56.840 --> 0:24:01.680 suburban and Ben and Bill flow off the helicopter and 0:24:01.720 --> 0:24:05.760 we spent the next six hours chasing bening Bell in 0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:11.880 the helicopter, going all over Nebraska. It seemed like and 0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:14.560 in the meantime, the picnic basket was in the back 0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:19.720 of the van with me, and about five hundred flies 0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:22.920 had gotten into the van, and I'm just thinking, boy, 0:24:22.960 --> 0:24:25.320 this day has got to get over with pretty quick. 0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:28.359 Ben I was really excited. We're looking at all these dudes. 0:24:28.440 --> 0:24:30.639 Poor Scotti is trying not to get sick in the 0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:32.880 back of the car, going around, up and down over 0:24:32.920 --> 0:24:36.760 the fields. So here's impressions when you talk to him 0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:39.800 of the introduction to the sandials would be quite different 0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:40.399 than ours. 0:24:42.760 --> 0:24:43.840 I'll never forget it. 0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:47.040 Those are the big, biggest menus flies I've ever seen. 0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:52.120