1 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: At the time the sand Hills came along, most of 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: the courses being built in the world were demographically driven. 3 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: The principle was you had to have population to support 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: the courses, and the courses went where people wanted to go. 5 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: Dick flipped that one hundred and eighty degrees built a 6 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: course where the average population is two people per square mile. 7 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: He was doing the well the proverbial field of dreams. 8 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: You don't know the logo on the fire nobody getting tied. 9 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: This is the fire pit with Matt Chenella. 10 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 2: Welcome Back, Settle in episode seven is more on the 11 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 2: partnership that I considered the best in the era of 12 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: modern minimalist golf course architecture. Bill Core and Ben Crenshaw 13 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 2: are currently building their thirtieth course in thirty five years 14 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: of working together. The two stories we tell today are 15 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 2: about the Kapitalua Plantation Course on Maui and sand Hills 16 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 2: in Nebraska. Both have had significant impact on their careers 17 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:26,119 Speaker 2: as well as golf in America. In episode six, Part 18 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 2: one of Core and Crenshaw, we told the story of 19 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 2: Bill and Ben's early influences as it relates to course design, 20 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 2: how they met, who was involved, and why they decided 21 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 2: to team up. We left off in nineteen eighty five. 22 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 2: Bill cor of a small town in North Carolina, already 23 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 2: had worked for Pete Dye and had worked on or 24 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 2: built three courses, all in Texas, Waterwood, National, King's Crossing 25 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: and Rockport Country Club. 26 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,559 Speaker 1: And knew I like certain courses and certain yeah. Thanks, 27 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,559 Speaker 1: And I'd try to figure out why, but I really 28 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: wasn't that much into it. And when I saw what 29 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: Pete was doing, a little public course called O Colum 30 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: in high Point, I just said, Gee, this is different. 31 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:13,399 Speaker 1: I wonder how you do this. 32 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Ben Crenshaw was the Master's champion in nineteen eighty four, 33 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 2: and in nineteen eighty five Ben had married Julie. He 34 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 2: had started working with Scottie Sayers, a lifetime friend who 35 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 2: became his business manager. And physically he had health issues 36 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: which was causing problems both on and off the course. 37 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 2: And yet after meeting Bill and walking Rockport Country Club, 38 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 2: he had decided he found a guy who shared the 39 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 2: same design philosophies. Bill Corr was the partner Ben needed 40 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:42,399 Speaker 2: to build golf courses. 41 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 3: It was just unbelievable how this happened. Nineteen eighty five. 42 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 3: Nineteen eighty five is when Wade decided to make a 43 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,399 Speaker 3: go at this, and that was the year I married Julie. 44 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 3: So I made two really good decisions. 45 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: But it was Bill who resisted the idea of partnering 46 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 2: with someone for the sake of a name. 47 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 3: We wasn't really interested, you know, I can understand that. 48 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 3: And when it finally it came around and said, you know, 49 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 3: maybe we could give this a go. 50 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: Which brings us back to the end of nineteen eighty five, Bill, 51 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 2: Ben and Scotti were in on this partnership. Julie Crenshaw 52 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 2: still had her doubts. 53 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: And I was like, are you sure you want to 54 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: do this? You know, because he was struggling with his health, 55 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: struggling with his game. We just got married. 56 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 3: We weren't even certain he was ever going to play 57 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 3: competitive golf again. 58 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 2: Having been told for a few years and by several 59 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: potential clients that they liked his work, but that if 60 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 2: he partnered with a recognizable name, it would help sell 61 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: the finished product. Core was already noticing that Crenshaw was 62 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 2: getting their team seats at bigger and better meetings, and 63 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 2: there was even some interest from national media. 64 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: Ben new and I knew Ron Whitten, whom you've known 65 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: for so many years, who was the architectural editor of 66 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: Golf Digest. Ron Whitten came to Austin to interview us 67 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: for a story to do about this partnership we had found. 68 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: Now obviously that story, the whole foundation of it is 69 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: Ben's reputation and background and playing career. And here he is, 70 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 1: he's going to get involved in this design partnership. But 71 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: Ron Witten comes in with a tape recorder and we're 72 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: going to have this interview. He turns a tape recorder on, 73 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: he lays it on the table and the first question 74 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: he asked is, so you formed this design partnership. What's 75 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: the name of the company. And there's just silence. We 76 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: had never talked about it. I'm not sure i'd ever 77 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: th aught about it. Ben is the one who spoke 78 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: up and he said the name of the company is 79 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: Core and Crenshaw. There was no reason not to put 80 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:10,119 Speaker 1: Bill up front. 81 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 3: He's the man. 82 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: And you know, I'll tell you what. Even to this day, 83 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: Bill leads our team. He's the leader. When he asked later, 84 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: I remember asking him after us, how did you come 85 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: up with that? It's an alphabetic order, but it sounds better. 86 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 2: Ben makes a good point. Core and Crenshaw sounds better 87 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 2: than Crenshaw and Core. But I asked Ben when he 88 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 2: says Bill is the leader, what exactly does that mean? 89 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 3: Interest supersedes length? And yeah, the whole world is enamored 90 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 3: with link. But interest is what I saw in Rockport 91 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 3: Country Club. 92 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: He Die Roy, Die, Rod Whitman, Jack Nicholas, Dave Carry, 93 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: Charlie Bellair, Mike McKay and Jerry Scrooge Clark were all 94 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 2: key to this match, which one developer predicted would be 95 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 2: a quote disaster, had to start. He actually looked smart. 96 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: We started two projects. That was our goal, to try 97 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: to do two courses at once, you know, at the 98 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: same time if anyone would ever hire us. We weren't 99 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: sure that was ever going to happen, but it did. 100 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: We began two projects. Neither one of them were completed. 101 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: Both of them we actually had holes roughed and ready 102 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: for irrigation, and they both fell by the way during 103 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: the savings and loan crisis of the late nineteen eighties. 104 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: And in the process of that we committed to two 105 00:06:54,839 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: other projects and lo and behold, the same thing happened. 106 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: So we spent the first two years of our partnership 107 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: producing zero nothing. I guess it was maybe a year 108 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: and a half, or could have been two years after. 109 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: He wrote the initial piece for Golf Digest, and in 110 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: it he said that we were the only two people 111 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: that ever formed a design partnership and then immediately retired 112 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: because that's what it looked like we had done. We 113 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,559 Speaker 1: produced nothing. The cupboard was a little bear. 114 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 2: Of the four courses they started. The first was in Austin, 115 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 2: which was called Uplands, the second in Magnolia. They had 116 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 2: shaped eleven greens before they stopped the project. Almost thirty 117 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 2: years later. That property became blue Jack National and Tiger 118 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 2: Woods Design. The third corn crunch on Missfire, was in Baltimore, 119 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 2: and the fourth was in Colorado, two miles from where 120 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 2: they'd eventually build the Colorado Golf Club. I asked Bill 121 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 2: if the start stops were important to getting them where 122 00:07:58,440 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 2: they needed to go as a team. 123 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: I can't truthfully say I've ever given it thought about 124 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: it in that way, but instantly my reaction is yes, 125 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: it was a very in spite of the fact to 126 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: how frustrating and difficult it was. It gave us the 127 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: opportunity to spend time together on sites, with the guys 128 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: with you in the process of shaping in holes and 129 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,719 Speaker 1: going from concepts to on the ground, you know, reality, 130 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: and it was invaluable, you know, looking back on it, 131 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: in some ways, it could very well have been the 132 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: best thing that could have happened. 133 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: Back in the late eighties, Ben had a full time 134 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 2: job on the PGA Tour. In nineteen eighty eight, he 135 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 2: had ten top tens. He won Durau finished top twenty 136 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 2: in all four majors, which included a fourth at the 137 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 2: mass Sters Bills on the income was building golf courses 138 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 2: and he needed a win. He found one doing a 139 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 2: solo project in France. 140 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: The company had to do a loan, and I'll assure 141 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: you that loan was underwritten not by my financial statement. 142 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:20,559 Speaker 1: It was a boy bends and instead that we could 143 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: stay in business and and the other part of that, Matt, 144 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: you're correct. I went to went to France. We did 145 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: a golf course in Bordeaux. Golf maydoc for a guy 146 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 1: who became such a good friend through the years, Bernard 147 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: Pascasio and me. 148 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 4: Perception of golf and then mine, I both like tradition 149 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 4: and golf course you know in the like Millfield in Scotlan, 150 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 4: or Pine Valley or sey Presspine, uh which all the 151 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 4: same thing, approvissiable for the amateur and competitive for the 152 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 4: professional player. 153 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 2: Bernard Pascasio dipped in and out of the European Tour 154 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 2: from nineteen seventy one to nineteen eighty nine. He won 155 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,359 Speaker 2: fifteen tournaments in France and played in nine World Cups. 156 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 2: The Chateau Course at Gulf Demydoc opened in nineteen eighty 157 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 2: nine and is considered one of the best courses in 158 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 2: France to this day. It remains the only cores or 159 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 2: corep in Crenshaw design in Europe. 160 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 4: Bill is a real strategy genius and respective of Natvia, 161 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 4: Bill is honest and I respect him very much. I 162 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 4: am proud and happy to know him and the best 163 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 4: in friend. 164 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: You know. 165 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 2: Back in Texas and still in the eighties they had 166 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 2: another bike. Scottis's stepfather was helping develop Barton Creek in Austin. 167 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 2: The first course went to Tom Fazio Corn Crenshaw. We're 168 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 2: on deck. 169 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 5: It was an average piece of property and I think 170 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 5: Ben and Bill did a great job, and there were 171 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 5: environmental concerns all along the way that slowed that project 172 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 5: down and really delayed that job where it actually opened. 173 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:29,079 Speaker 2: After Kapalua kappoloua resort on Maui's north shore, was building 174 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 2: more golf. Mark Roffing, affectionately known as Mister Hawaii and 175 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 2: prior to working for NBC in the Golf Channel, was 176 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 2: put in charge. 177 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 6: I got involved in the plantation development and kind of 178 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 6: took the lead role in putting together the golf part 179 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 6: of the Colin Cameron, who was the chairman of Mallyland 180 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 6: and Pineapple Company, they put in the land. We did 181 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 6: a joint venture and he said, you're responsible for the golf, 182 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 6: you figure out how to do it. So off I 183 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 6: went interviewing golf course architects and had no idea what 184 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 6: I was wanting from them, because I had no idea 185 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 6: really what I wanted. 186 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: It was. 187 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 6: It was kind of a blind leading the blind in 188 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 6: a little bit of a way, and uh, you know, 189 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 6: somehow I started talking to Ben Frenshaw. 190 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: It was a. 191 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 3: Seminal uh golf course in our in our career, and 192 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 3: you know, and just amazing happened to coincide with my 193 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,079 Speaker 3: marriage as well. 194 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: It's got all these other. 195 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 3: Dimensions and it and it was as the piece of 196 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:32,559 Speaker 3: property that I saw first. 197 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 6: And he told me about this relationship that he had 198 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 6: developed with Bill Core said, you've got to meet this man. 199 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 6: You have got to meet this man. 200 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: Ben was was that Coppolo, He and Julie and he 201 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: called and he said, Bill, there's a there's a site here. 202 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,719 Speaker 1: I think we should consider, uh, you know, working with 203 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: And I remember asking him on the phone, I said, 204 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: what does it look like? Ben? 205 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 3: I saw it that saw playlantation fields out there of 206 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 3: pineapple everywhere, absolutely gorgeous. And he, Milt said what does 207 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 3: it look like? And I said, well, it looks like 208 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 3: land gently rising from the sea. 209 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: I'd never been there, I hadn't seen it, but somehow 210 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: rising gently from the sea conjured up images in my 211 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: mind that didn't quite match what I saw when I 212 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: first got there and went out with Mark Roffing. We're 213 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: standing out there where now the clubhouse, basically where the 214 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,079 Speaker 1: clubhouse is now. I was looking backward up the hill 215 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: where at the eighteenth toll is now, looking down the hill, 216 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: you know, as well, towards where the first hole is, 217 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: and I'm just I'm speechless. I just God, it's got 218 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: a lot of elevation changes the slope and it's beautiful, 219 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: It's stunningly beautiful. But I just didn't know quite what 220 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 1: to say other than I finally I looked at at 221 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: Mark and I said, Mark, when you and Ben were here? 222 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: And he called me. I said, what were you doing? 223 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: And he said, we brought a couple of coronas and 224 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: we watched the sunset. And I couldn't help it, Matt, 225 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: I just said, well, Mark, I hate to ask this question, 226 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: but how many coronas did you go? Hey out? 227 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 6: It took me about ten minutes before I fell in 228 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 6: love with Bill Corr And from that day on it 229 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 6: was like, you know, talking to the same person. I 230 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 6: remember asking Bill, you know what's going to happen if 231 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 6: you and Ben aren't here at the same time, and 232 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 6: he said, it doesn't matter. When you're talking to me, 233 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 6: you're talking to him. When you're talking to him, you're 234 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 6: talking to me. And boy was he right. 235 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 3: And when you get on the hop or parts of 236 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 3: the property, there's there's just the most beautiful sites and place. 237 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 3: It's a big part of the dimension of how how 238 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 3: the property climbs and then goes back down towards the clubhouse. 239 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: You know, for anyone who's been there, five hundred feet 240 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: elevation change between the seventeenth t and the like the 241 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: second Green, And so we would we'd be out there 242 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: working and I just couldn't help it. But almost every 243 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: opportunity I got when Ben was there, I would just 244 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: somehow say, you know, this is so so good. It's 245 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: so easy to work with. It just rises gently from 246 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: the sea. 247 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 6: They made you believe that they were going to come 248 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 6: up with something that really fit the place, and they did. 249 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 6: You got to remember, too, there was a big tournament 250 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 6: going on here then. 251 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: So for their. 252 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 6: First real project, not only did they have an elevator 253 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 6: change of over four hundred feet seven hundred acres, they 254 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 6: had to play a PGA Tour event on it. That 255 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 6: is a very difficult combination of elements and sort of 256 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 6: ingredients and what had to be cooked up. But it 257 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 6: never phased him. And you know, every time Bill would 258 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 6: scratch his head, Ben would smile and laugh, and I 259 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 6: knew they would figure it out. 260 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 2: A couple of a plantation opened in nineteen ninety one 261 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 2: and has been the host of the PGA Tours Century 262 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 2: Tournament of champions since nineteen ninety nine. 263 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: It had to be a golf course with the enormous 264 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: scale in terms of the size of the features, the fairways, 265 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: the greens to be just to be playable. We look 266 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: back and just go, you know, it's different. It's a 267 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: very different type of golf course. And I have to say, 268 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: even today, thirty years later or whatever, I don't think 269 00:16:58,720 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: we would have done it different. 270 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 2: I asked Mark Ralfing, what would have happened to Corn 271 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 2: Crenshaw if they didn't beat out guys like Palmer, Nicholas 272 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 2: and Fazzio for the plantation job. 273 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 6: Ben and Bill's business was a fledgling business at the time. 274 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 6: As you say, they've been at it a couple of times. 275 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 6: I think this was a critical time for them, and 276 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 6: had the plantation project fallen through for whatever reasons, you know, 277 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 6: a recession or you know, the Gulf War, if we 278 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 6: hadn't got in ahead of that, who knows, I think 279 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 6: their careers could have been decidedly different. 280 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 5: A funny thing about that is early in the company's history, 281 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 5: as we were doing the course for Mark Graffing, Mark 282 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 5: offered us. You know, at that time, our fee I 283 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 5: think was two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and Mark said, well, 284 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 5: we'll either give you your fee or you can have 285 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 5: a lot here. Well, we had a bank loan to 286 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 5: pay off, and Ben and Bill and I wanted to 287 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 5: take a salary, and we had some employees to pay 288 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 5: at that time, so we took the money and I 289 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 5: think that lot so for about five million dollars. 290 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 6: That was one of the most enjoyable times of my 291 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 6: entire career, broadcast or anything else. I just loved working 292 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 6: with Ben and Bill. And you know, when they came 293 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 6: in and started this Matt there was no Core and 294 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 6: Crenshaw style. You know, there was no sand Hills, there 295 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 6: was no friars Head, there was no Old Sandwich. So 296 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 6: you didn't know what the style was going to be. 297 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 6: And the thing I loved about him was I think 298 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 6: part of their theories evolved through the plantation for us. 299 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 5: So that's sort of landmark number one of the Core 300 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 5: Crenshaw events. Kapitalua really brought attention to us. The phone 301 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 5: started ringing in the office. People were talking about golf 302 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 5: courses and I'm not sure where Dick Young's cap actually 303 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 5: heard about us or what we were doing, but he 304 00:18:54,600 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 5: started coming around in about nineteen ninety two, and we 305 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 5: were just wondering, what, you know, what is this guy 306 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 5: thinking about doing a course up in the middle of Nebraska. 307 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 2: Dick Young's Cap was a developer from Lincoln, Nebraska, who 308 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety was offered a deal on eight acres 309 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 2: of land in Mullen, population four hundred and sixty three. 310 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 2: Young's cap had a hunch and a vision. Now he 311 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 2: needed money and someone to build a golf course. Core 312 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 2: and Crenshaw weren't a hard sell. Others had their doubts. 313 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: Ben and Scottie and I were all in the office. 314 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: That doesn't happen very often, but we were all there. 315 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: Dick gets on the phone and he introduces himself and 316 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: he's he's talking about this property that's he's looking at 317 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:53,719 Speaker 1: in Nebraska, And instantly he says, Nebraska. I'm thinking, you know, 318 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: flat probably maybe maybe not the most interesting property in 319 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: the world. Uh likely. And then Dick very quickly says 320 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 1: it's in an area called the sand Hills in Nebraska. 321 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: Light bulbs going matt for me and for Ben. 322 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 3: I had a magazine that I had subscribed to and 323 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 3: it was it was a It was an artist it 324 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 3: was a Texas artist magazine, and in in this thing 325 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 3: it did a layout on the cattle ranches of Nebraska. 326 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 3: I kept looking at these old photos and I said, got, 327 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 3: it looked just like Britain in Ireland and Scotland rolling 328 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 3: sand hills sand Hills of Nebraska. 329 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 2: As for Bill, he first met ron Whitten in the 330 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 2: late seventies back in Huntsville, Texas. Went Still, an assistant 331 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 2: district attorney, was writing a book about golf course architecture 332 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 2: and stopped in at Waterwood. 333 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: I said something about, what's the best land for golf 334 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: you've ever seen? He said in Nebraska. I got Nebraska, 335 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: And what are you talking about? He said, Bill, There's 336 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: a place called Sandhills in Nebraska. He said, It's just 337 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: some of the most magnificent land for golf I have 338 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: ever seen anywhere in the world. 339 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 2: And then in the late eighties, Bill was at Prairie 340 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 2: Dunes in Kansas walking with Doug Peterson, who was the 341 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 2: superintendent at the time. 342 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: I was walking down the eighth fairway with Doug and 343 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 1: looking at those heaving contours in the dunes. That Perry 344 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: mix will just lay that incredible that hole on And 345 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: I said to Doug. I said, Doug, can you imagine 346 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: having a piece of property like this to work with? 347 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: And I remember distinctly mad Doug looked at me and 348 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: he goes, Bill, I know where there's land better than this. 349 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: And I'm looking at him, go what what are you 350 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: talking about? How can anything be better than this? He said, well, 351 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: maybe it's not better, it's just more of it. And 352 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: he said into sand Hills and Nebraska. 353 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 2: Well, needless to say, Bill was in. 354 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: Let's go see it. Let's let's go see it. So yeah, 355 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,959 Speaker 1: Ben and Scottie and I all went up there to 356 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: get our first look at what would become sand Hills 357 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 1: Golf Club. 358 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 3: We flew up and we could tell from North Platte. 359 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 3: We kind of cast our eyes up to the north. 360 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 3: I said, God, a mighty look at these dunes or 361 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 3: dunes everywhere. And so he took us up in this 362 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 3: helicopter and it was the damned this site the rest 363 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 3: of the day, and looking at all this property, we're going, 364 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 3: oh my god, it's so vast. We had no idea, 365 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 3: and Dick wanted us to go up north, which was 366 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 3: gotten forty five miles up north of North Platte. And 367 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 3: we're seeing great ground wherever we looked. So we couldn't 368 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 3: figure that out. 369 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: But we had never seen anything like it. Man, the 370 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: everywhere you looked, you just felt like, this is just incredible. 371 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: It's incredible wild on Earth? Has this not become a 372 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: golf mecca. 373 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 2: It wasn't exactly love at first sight for all of 374 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 2: Team Corn Crunshaw. 375 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 1: Scotty went with us up there to meet Dick Young's 376 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: cap to look at this site. Where Scotty got they 377 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: had a van and admittedly, as Ben said, there's a 378 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: helicopter there. So Ben and I'm getting this helicopter. Now 379 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: we're flying all over We're not talking about a mile 380 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 1: or two, We're talking many miles, looking at all these 381 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: different dunes, and we land and then we get out. 382 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 1: Dick youngerscap is in the van with Scotty in the 383 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: back and they're trying to keep up with us in 384 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: the helicopter. 385 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 5: And so about seven of us get back in this 386 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 5: suburban and Ben and Bill flow off the helicopter and 387 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 5: we spent the next six hours chasing bening Bell in 388 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 5: the helicopter, going all over Nebraska. It seemed like and 389 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 5: in the meantime, the picnic basket was in the back 390 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 5: of the van with me, and about five hundred flies 391 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 5: had gotten into the van, and I'm just thinking, boy, 392 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 5: this day has got to get over with pretty quick. 393 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: Ben I was really excited. We're looking at all these dudes. 394 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: Poor Scotti is trying not to get sick in the 395 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 1: back of the car, going around, up and down over 396 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: the fields. So here's impressions when you talk to him 397 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: of the introduction to the sandials would be quite different 398 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: than ours. 399 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 6: I'll never forget it. 400 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 5: Those are the big, biggest menus flies I've ever seen. 401 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 2: Poor Scotti. The best was yet to come. 402 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: I tormented Scotti. 403 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,199 Speaker 3: I said, look, Scotty said, we'll do this for nothing. 404 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: It just Scott He said, oh no, we can't do that. 405 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: Phil Bill. 406 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 3: When we got Bill and I got there, our minds 407 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 3: started tournament and how are we going to make this 408 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 3: work where PEPs can think we're crazy going all the 409 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,880 Speaker 3: way up from North platte forty miles is why isn't 410 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 3: it closer to civilization? All these questions. 411 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 2: So Young's cap had his answer to who was going 412 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 2: to build the golf course? But the time he had 413 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 2: to raise the money to pay for both the land 414 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 2: and the golf had an expiration date. Meanwhile, Mike Kaiser, 415 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 2: recycled greeting cards in Chicago, was on a similar path 416 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 2: to remote, sand based minimalism. Kaiser had built The Dunes Club, 417 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 2: a nine hole, private but non pretentious hang in New Buffalo, Michigan, 418 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 2: and he had found a stretch of gorse choked dunes 419 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 2: along the southwest coast of Oregon. 420 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 7: So round Whitten from Golf that just said, Mike, get 421 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 7: on mind. I'm going to introduce you to Dick Youngscalp, 422 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 7: because I like what you've done here at the Dunes Club, 423 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 7: which is built on sand, and I've got this guy 424 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 7: who's got this great site and you should. 425 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: Talk to him. 426 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 7: So I ended up talking to Dick Youngscap. I don't 427 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 7: remember if he called me, which I think is the case. 428 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 7: And Dick said, I need a money guy, and I said, 429 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 7: you know, I've already bought land in Abandon and I'm 430 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 7: trying to assemble the money and the courage to build 431 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 7: out there. And you've got this remote site in Mullet, Nebraska, 432 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 7: and you want me to double down with two highly 433 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 7: speculative adventures. 434 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I know. 435 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 7: You're going to buy the land, and I'll be part 436 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 7: of your partnership that is buying the land. But you've 437 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 7: got to find someone to help you pay for sand Hills. 438 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 2: Jim Simons was that guy. Young's Cap was originally allocated 439 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 2: one thousand acres along the Dismal River. Simons would take 440 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 2: the other seven acres for ranching. But the fundraising didn't 441 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 2: start at the land. Fresh off the success of the 442 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 2: plantation course, Mark Rolfing was back in the mix, and. 443 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 6: They kept saying to me, we'd like to get you involved, 444 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 6: and I just really had no interest. I thought it 445 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 6: was one of the stupidest ideas I'd ever heard of, 446 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 6: a private club in the middle of Nebraska. 447 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: Dick is a. 448 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,880 Speaker 3: Single minded individualist. I mean, they don't make any more 449 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 3: people like Dick Young's Cap. He possesses very strong opinions. 450 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 3: He knows what he wants. He's an architect. He's a 451 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 3: building architect by trade, so he has some semblance of 452 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:46,199 Speaker 3: building things and he has his opinions. But I cannot 453 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 3: tell you what a gift that he gave us in 454 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 3: the opportunity to do something that had never been tried. 455 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 1: Really, I mean, the. 456 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 3: Most remote location that anybody could ever think of. 457 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 6: But in a way I felt a little obligated in Matt, 458 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 6: I think, And finally I let them talk me into 459 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 6: going up there. One day we flew up from Austin, Texas, 460 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 6: three of us being Bennett, Bill, and looked at the property. 461 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 6: And I'll never forget walking out there with young Scap 462 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 6: and three or four other guys. 463 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: And looking at this thing. 464 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 6: And Ben was saying, Kay, you just see you know 465 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 6: these hole look at how these holds are just gonna lay. 466 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 6: I couldn't see anything. I looked in every direction, and 467 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 6: all I kept saying was where's the hotel going to go? 468 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: You know what? 469 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 6: Okay, howbout the condos? Where we're gonna build the condos? 470 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 6: And as we started talking more and more I realized 471 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 6: that that was not what they had in mind at all, 472 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 6: And then I thought, what am I doing here? 473 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: Very early on, you become aware that the site is 474 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: so good that if you don't produce one of the 475 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: world's outstanding out you failed. It said. You know, there's 476 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: some sites you get that are you know, you don't 477 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: have to do very much to to make them far 478 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: far better than what you expect. But the sand Hills 479 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: there was great potential there to go the wrong way, 480 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: and we knew it. And and that was mostly tied 481 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: into what you said, the fact that you could build 482 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: a hole, you could go in so many directions. At 483 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: first glance, or even after it being unter for days 484 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: and days, you begin to think you can go in 485 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: any direction until you launch off and start walking through 486 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: those dunes and realizing what you think is pretty calm ground, 487 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: Suddenly you just disappear, I mean in huge valleys and 488 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: holes and big ridges, and uh so it's it's not 489 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: like you just could go in any direction, but she 490 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: certainly had huge numbers of options. I have to say. 491 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: The one and the one thing that's kind of, I 492 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: don't know, kind of gotten me a few times is 493 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: I've heard people say, oh, you could build holes anywhere, 494 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: it didn't matter where you put them. NI could just 495 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: each build them anywhere. It would have been just as good. 496 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that's the case. 497 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 6: Man, I'll never get Ben and I went up to 498 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 6: the public course in Mullin, about ten miles to the 499 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 6: to the north that day, and we went up there 500 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 6: to meet some of the local folks and saw the sign. 501 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 6: When we went in, it was great. It said nine 502 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 6: holes five dollars, nine hole course nine holes five dollars, 503 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 6: eighteen holes three dollars. So I asked the kid in 504 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 6: the shop, I said, how can it be cheaper to 505 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 6: play eighteen holes than nine holes? And he said, we're 506 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 6: trying to encourage play, and that's fabulous. I fell in 507 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 6: love with I fell in love with sand Hills that day, 508 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 6: and it's just a marvel. And when I saw the budget, 509 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 6: but what I realized what we were going to do 510 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 6: was build a golf course and a clubhouse at sand 511 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 6: Hills for less money than we spent on the cart paths, 512 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 6: just the cart paths at the plantation course, I said, wow, 513 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 6: how can I turn this down? So it was really 514 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 6: an amazing project. 515 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 2: The deal gets done, there's going to be golf in Mullen. 516 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 2: But it meant a lot to Young's cap that this 517 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 2: was well received by the locals. Here's more from Core. 518 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: The coal trains. I mean, I can't hundreds of cars 519 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: I think on the coal trains that are probably kind 520 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: of from Wholming back towards Chicago and they go through 521 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: right through Mullen, Nebraska. And I was seeing there waiting 522 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: one day. It just stopped waiting as the train just 523 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: eached by, it seemed, knowing that it was going to 524 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: be a long long time. And I saw a fellow 525 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: in the pickup truck behind me, and he got out 526 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: of his truck and he walked up next to the 527 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: truck I was in. He just kind of looked at 528 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: me and he smiled and said, you must be one 529 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: of the golf course fellas. And I said, yes, sir, 530 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: I am. He said, well, I reckon, you'll be building 531 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: something out there. It looks like what we see on 532 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: television with water, green grass, trees. I said, no, sir, 533 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: I don't think you'll see any water. I don't think 534 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: you'll see a tree unless it just happens to be 535 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: a volunteer that's there. And I don't think you'll see 536 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: very much green grass. I said. It'll be green of 537 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: a shade, but more like all aver, you know, green, 538 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: than bright green. I said. It's just not the way 539 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: we would envision something happening out here in these dunes. 540 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: And he goes, no water, no trees, no water, no trees, 541 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: no bright green? Right no, no, right, I like that. 542 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: I like that. And he turned around. He walked back 543 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: and he got in this truck. That was probably my 544 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: first time of thinking, you know, this place is so special, 545 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: but we really need to do something here, not just 546 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: for golf, but something that, if at all possible, will 547 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: make these these folks proud that it's there. 548 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 2: In order to share his vision with the locals, Young's cap, 549 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 2: whose brother in law was a rancher in the area, 550 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 2: went as far as putting pictures of courses like Royal 551 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 2: County down of Northern Ireland in storefront windows throughout Mullen. 552 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 3: That these people thought we were came from Mars or 553 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 3: something you're going to do out here. You know, it's 554 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 3: basically cattle grazing, and they're very dependent, the very proud 555 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 3: of the way that they live and they work. But gently, 556 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:10,839 Speaker 3: you know, through Dick Young's Cap and his his relatives, 557 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 3: you know, had to talk to the local people and say, look, 558 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 3: these people are okay, don't you know it's gonna work 559 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 3: out fun. We were gently sort of embraced. But man, 560 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 3: they mean so much to us because they brought us in. 561 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 2: They didn't have to, and who doesn't love a story 562 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 2: about pink flags in the prairie. 563 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: I was by myself walking out in the dunes on 564 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: the right on what is now the tenth fairway at 565 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: San Dials Golf Club. But I was just walking my 566 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: blue jeans and boots, and I had a bundle of 567 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: the surveyor flags and they were bright fuchia pink, and 568 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: so I could see them well and if I found 569 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: a certain situation for what the felt like an interesting 570 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 1: green site or a te site followed by a landing 571 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: area in the green site. Just I was just flagging 572 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,320 Speaker 1: and I'm making little notations on a piece of paper 573 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: I had. But so I'm standing there with a bouquet 574 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:19,839 Speaker 1: of bright light, and up over the done ridge from 575 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: the valley comes a herd of cattle. I don't know 576 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 1: how many. I didn't try to count them, but there 577 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: was There had to have been at least one hundred 578 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: and fifty or two hundred head of cattle coming right 579 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: up over the dune ridge where I was. And they 580 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: rode up. First of all, I'm staying there, the cattle 581 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 1: coming completely surround me. I am just I'm like the 582 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: hole in a doughnut of cattle. And they slowly weave 583 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: through the cattle and come up to me, and one 584 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: guy looks at me, just what are you doing? I said, well, 585 00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: to tell you the truth, I'm looking for golf holes. 586 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: Matt the guy who's like a scene out of the movie. 587 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: This guy leans over in his saddle, he looks at me, 588 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: he looks at the pink flags, he looks back at 589 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:17,240 Speaker 1: his three companions there, and he just he says, man's 590 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: looking for golf holes. They all kind of look at 591 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: me like I'm just some lunatic, of course, and he goes, well, 592 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 1: good luck to you, fellow, and off they go. 593 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,800 Speaker 2: Not sure how much luck Core neated, but believe it 594 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 2: or not, he needed more land. 595 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: Here we are, we're out here on a thousand acres man, 596 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: and we lay out the golf course. We were look ever. 597 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 1: We think we're pretty happy. And then one day Ben 598 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 1: I both go out there and we start looking just 599 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,800 Speaker 1: a little a little further out, and we didn't know 600 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 1: quite where the thousand acre boundary was, but we go 601 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: out there and board, you know, that looks pretty good 602 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,320 Speaker 1: over there. Let's walk over there and see what that 603 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: could look like. We got over there and got, yeah, 604 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 1: that looks pretty nank. You could go over here, and 605 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: then you could go and he ended up being a 606 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: kind of a not really triangle but kind of an 607 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: odd shaped piece back there, and we just immediately changed 608 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,880 Speaker 1: the routing and put our holes out there. And obviously 609 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: we weren't doing any construction. But Dick comes out probably 610 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: the next day, and he comes out and we said, Dick, 611 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,839 Speaker 1: we're gonna we want to go out here and there, 612 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: and he just stands there and he goes, that's not 613 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,759 Speaker 1: on our ground. That's on the ground that it gave 614 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: the gym simes, that's not on our and he basically said, 615 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: how on earth can you not get eighteen holes a 616 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: thousand figures ground. 617 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 2: Young's cap got that land, Corn Crenshaw got the ultimate routing. 618 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,240 Speaker 2: Mike Kaiser got a low score. 619 00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,359 Speaker 7: I had certainly been invited many times that I did 620 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 7: not go, as I was going to Man and was 621 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 7: trying to figure out what to do with that. So 622 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 7: I didn't see sand Hills until I went there with 623 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 7: three friends to play an inaugural round and basically a 624 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 7: preview round. The course was probably putting at six. It's 625 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 7: down the stip meter. 626 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: So it was really new. 627 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,280 Speaker 7: And little did I know until that day that slow 628 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,840 Speaker 7: greens are a lot easier to put on man, You 629 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 7: know this than the greens that are primed and go 630 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,800 Speaker 7: in twelve. So I actually shot a seventy three, my 631 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 7: all time best score, and my first and lasting impression 632 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,320 Speaker 7: of sand Hills was that's where I shot at seventy 633 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 7: three on this totally natural sand sand hills in Nebraska. 634 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,280 Speaker 2: And that was also Kaiser's first impression of corn. 635 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,799 Speaker 7: Crenshaw, Boy, did they do a masterful job in as 636 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 7: much as they didn't seem to have touched anything. You know, 637 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 7: you've heard that they found one hundred and twenty holes 638 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 7: and had trouble going it down to eight running and 639 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 7: down to eighteen. What I didn't know, and that was 640 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 7: their claim, is they didn't move much sand. It was 641 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 7: obvious to my foursome, we're all ad and knowledgeable golfers, 642 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,239 Speaker 7: that this was a defined minimalism. 643 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 2: As for Crenshaw, he offers more credit to Core for 644 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 2: the routing. 645 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 3: He has a way of doing it and that's entirely natural. 646 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 1: You know. He once said, he said, you know, if you. 647 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 3: If you're if you're an animal, and you just follow 648 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 3: the way that they make these trails, and yeah, it's 649 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 3: maybe the path of least resistance as you go around, 650 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,239 Speaker 3: and if you go by the idea of so if 651 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 3: you're just kind of having a walk about about a 652 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 3: piece of property, he has a way of doing that 653 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,760 Speaker 3: that that it fits. 654 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,480 Speaker 1: And and you know, Matt, one of. 655 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 3: The hardest things that we had to do there is 656 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 3: actually put the directions of the holes and where they went, 657 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 3: what sequence, because. 658 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: It was dawning, because we knew we never get a 659 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: piece of property like that. Again. I remember when the 660 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 1: when the golf course was just about to open and 661 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 1: Ben and I went out to play and we were 662 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 1: on the uh we were we were just near the 663 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 1: sixteenth green, uh and just the two of us, and 664 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 1: I remember asking Ben, Ben, would you change anything? Do 665 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 1: you think we missed anything? Do you think what do 666 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: you think? Then he said, Bill, I wouldn't change it. 667 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 1: I think it's good. I like it. I like it. 668 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: And we're talking about exactly where you were, or Matt, 669 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: the flow, the sequence, the variety of the holes, the 670 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 1: way they fit on the on the landforms. And that 671 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 1: was without question our biggest fear going into it. And 672 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: even to this day, Man, I spent so much time 673 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: out there and both in those early years and walking 674 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 1: those dunes in the sight, and I have yet to 675 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: walk out there and go Wow, we should have gone 676 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: over there. We should have done that. We could have, 677 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 1: but it's just I just haven't second guessed it. And 678 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: for me, and particularly on that site, to say that 679 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 1: it's pretty big. 680 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,279 Speaker 2: For some final reflections, here's Mike Kaiser. 681 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 7: What I would say about Dick Youngscap, who's sort of 682 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 7: publicity shy, oddly because he's. 683 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 1: Not a shy man. 684 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,320 Speaker 7: He had the courage of his convictions. He saw this 685 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 7: land in Mullon, Nebraska and said, I see a golf 686 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 7: court there and so on all the way through, and 687 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,320 Speaker 7: you know, to this day when you're out there, you 688 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,120 Speaker 7: scratch your head, and said, who was the brave man 689 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,840 Speaker 7: who decided to put it all together in sam Hills, 690 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 7: especially given his background. He'd already done one with Pete 691 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 7: Dye and Lincoln and could easily have rested on his 692 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 7: laurels because. 693 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,280 Speaker 1: That was a very well regarded golf course. 694 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 7: But nope, he found this land and Nebraska just as 695 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 7: I later, just as I found land and abandoned, and 696 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:17,799 Speaker 7: decided to repurpose himself as the builder of remote golf 697 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,800 Speaker 7: courses in the middle of nowhere, And boy did it 698 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:21,279 Speaker 7: work out. 699 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,280 Speaker 2: Man Mark Rawfing on why Core and Crenshaw have become 700 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:26,279 Speaker 2: so successful. 701 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:31,600 Speaker 6: If you traded voices between Dick Young's Cap and Mike Kaiser, 702 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 6: they could almost be the same person in a lot 703 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:36,840 Speaker 6: of ways too. They remind me a lot. 704 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:37,319 Speaker 1: Of each other. 705 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 6: And you know, that's that's the kind of people that 706 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,719 Speaker 6: Ben and Bill are attracted to, no nonsense people. And 707 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,439 Speaker 6: I think when you're not taking jobs on the fly 708 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 6: and high risk jobs and you know, trying to you know, 709 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 6: do things that the environment may not dictate there, you're 710 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,440 Speaker 6: never going to be as successful as date been. Because 711 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,840 Speaker 6: they went to the right places, they were very selective, 712 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,680 Speaker 6: they worked hard at it, and they deserve everything that 713 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:09,600 Speaker 6: they've gotten out of it. 714 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 2: In Part one, for Ben Crenshaw, finding Bill Corr was 715 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 2: about fate at sand Hills, they both needed a little faith. 716 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 3: You had these people who in the you know, in 717 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,840 Speaker 3: the personage of Dick Young's Cap, who wanted to do 718 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:32,879 Speaker 3: this thing, and and it was you know, you talk 719 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:38,399 Speaker 3: about a bold leap, putting it out there somewhere where 720 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,279 Speaker 3: we all had just hoped that people would come to 721 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 3: see it and enjoyment and enjoy it because it was 722 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:51,520 Speaker 3: something different. But the land was so blessed that we 723 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,879 Speaker 3: just didn't you know, we didn't build so much there, 724 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:56,040 Speaker 3: We just followed nature. 725 00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 1: There. 726 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,400 Speaker 2: Here's Scottie Sayers on what sand Hills meant for business. 727 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:06,160 Speaker 5: And after that, the opportunities for our company exploded. I mean, 728 00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,719 Speaker 5: the phone was ringing all the time and we had 729 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:13,200 Speaker 5: more and more great opportunities to build courses. And I 730 00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 5: don't want to pick on any courses to say that 731 00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,600 Speaker 5: they were better than others, because there was a period 732 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,800 Speaker 5: where we did Old Sandwich, we did Hidden Creek, we 733 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,400 Speaker 5: did Austin Golf Club, we did East Hampton Golf Club, 734 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,000 Speaker 5: but we did Friar Shad And so there's landmark number 735 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 5: three and that's another course that immediately brought us a 736 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,560 Speaker 5: lot of attention because of the spectacular nature of it 737 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 5: and the fact that it sat on Long Island where 738 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,440 Speaker 5: a lot of people could take a look at it. 739 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:51,000 Speaker 5: The fourth big one for the company is abandon Getting 740 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:55,840 Speaker 5: a chance to work for Mike Kaiser certainly changed our world, 741 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:57,239 Speaker 5: and Mike has. 742 00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,760 Speaker 1: Been so good to us over the years. 743 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,560 Speaker 5: It's been as you know, Matt, we've had a chance 744 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:08,000 Speaker 5: to be abandoned trails, we did the Preserve, we did Cabot. 745 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 5: Mike was a part of Lost Farm down in Tasmania 746 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,800 Speaker 5: Sand Valley. And now we've got the Sheep Ranch coming along, 747 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,440 Speaker 5: So you know, that relationship was kind of the fourth landmark. 748 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,839 Speaker 1: And then I'd say the fifth was Pinehurst. 749 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:25,879 Speaker 2: Crenshaw again under collection of work. 750 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,800 Speaker 3: I mean, we're not prolific, We'll never be prolific, but 751 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,239 Speaker 3: I don't think that some people have had some of 752 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,880 Speaker 3: the best experiences that we've had working with people and 753 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:40,600 Speaker 3: in certain environs. 754 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,840 Speaker 2: And finally I asked Bill Core if he thought they 755 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,600 Speaker 2: could have ever achieved such a deep portfolio without sand Hills. 756 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:57,440 Speaker 1: No. No, I wouldn't say no unequivocally, but I would 757 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:03,440 Speaker 1: say it would be extraordinarily unlikely that we could have 758 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:08,400 Speaker 1: the sand Hills. It was such a special site that 759 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,680 Speaker 1: Dick gave us, and he gave us the freedom to 760 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:16,239 Speaker 1: work with that site. And yeah, Matt, we didn't know. 761 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,279 Speaker 1: We didn't know. How get asked sometimes people say, oh, gee, 762 00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,040 Speaker 1: did you know this was going to be a watershed 763 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:28,680 Speaker 1: event in golf architecture. No, we didn't know that. We 764 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,799 Speaker 1: didn't know. We never talked about it, we never thought 765 00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,239 Speaker 1: about it. All we thought about is how can we 766 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,160 Speaker 1: make the most of this site? And this opportunity we've 767 00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:41,320 Speaker 1: been given. But once it came online and it seemed 768 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,520 Speaker 1: to have struck a chord, so to speak, with the 769 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,040 Speaker 1: golfing world. And of course part of that was because 770 00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,919 Speaker 1: it was so different than what was prevalent at the time, 771 00:46:52,360 --> 00:47:00,680 Speaker 1: but it was as it just became the cornerstone of 772 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 1: people being aware that we are one in this business, 773 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,720 Speaker 1: but two that we have an affinity for this type 774 00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:10,280 Speaker 1: of ground. 775 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,160 Speaker 2: Do you guys have a favorite fire pit that you've 776 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,920 Speaker 2: stumbled upon or use on a regular basis? 777 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:27,520 Speaker 1: Matt, you know, I have a My favorite happens to 778 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:29,319 Speaker 1: be in our backyard. Uh. 779 00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:33,359 Speaker 2: That was the best kind of fire pit. 780 00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. Soon I both travel so much, well 781 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 1: not right now obviously, but generally so much. And yeah, 782 00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,239 Speaker 1: there's a fireplace in the in the back and that 783 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:46,640 Speaker 1: we that that we like to go, uh uh to 784 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,000 Speaker 1: hang out in the in the evenings. But beyond that, 785 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,759 Speaker 1: it's pretty darn hard to beat the one at van, 786 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,600 Speaker 1: you know, the one out there with the crackling fire 787 00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,520 Speaker 1: at night and the people around and tell their golf 788 00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:04,239 Speaker 1: stories and the you know, their adventures of the day. 789 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, Ben, I left the second that that fire pit 790 00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,680 Speaker 3: there Uh, it's great to see you know the the 791 00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:17,000 Speaker 3: well once again. The pleasure and you've got abandon is 792 00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,960 Speaker 3: it's just so ideal for a foursome or two forces 793 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,840 Speaker 3: to get together to play and you know, it's chilling 794 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:28,600 Speaker 3: at night, and that fireplace really feels good and it 795 00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:34,680 Speaker 3: does make all the golfers conjure up memory of the day. 796 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:40,319 Speaker 3: It's it's it's uh, very convivial and it's the way 797 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,360 Speaker 3: you in the day and you look forward to the 798 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:47,359 Speaker 3: next one. But I agree, I agree, that's a good 799 00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:48,279 Speaker 3: one man. 800 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,759 Speaker 1: I would again, Uh and Bellish just briefly on what 801 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,440 Speaker 1: Ben and said. We've been so fortunate to work with 802 00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 1: so many wonderful clients, wonderful people, gifted sites. We've gotten 803 00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,520 Speaker 1: far more than our fair share to work with and 804 00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:07,880 Speaker 1: we're just very grateful. But I have to say you, 805 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,440 Speaker 1: we're grateful for the time we've spent with you too. 806 00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:11,680 Speaker 1: I know that, I know. 807 00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:13,279 Speaker 3: I can't believe. 808 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,680 Speaker 1: I'm so glad I got this on record. Matt. 809 00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:21,960 Speaker 3: Matt, Yeah, Bill, Bill is exactly right. We we we've 810 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,000 Speaker 3: enjoyed our time with you. It's great to see you, 811 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:25,520 Speaker 3: great to talk golf with you. 812 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:30,560 Speaker 2: Thank you again, gentlemen, I you know this is this 813 00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,480 Speaker 2: has been a treat and a pleasure for God's sake, 814 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,719 Speaker 2: Stay safe out there. We need you guys to keep 815 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,040 Speaker 2: doing what you're doing and and look forward to seeing 816 00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,480 Speaker 2: you out there in the dirt somewhere someday soon. 817 00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,719 Speaker 3: And yeah, likewise, we help everybody safe, including you and 818 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:47,280 Speaker 3: your family. 819 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:58,200 Speaker 2: Sure are you looking for good value on great golf apparel? 820 00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,200 Speaker 2: As a listener to this point podcast, my friends John 821 00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:04,520 Speaker 2: Ashworth and Jeff Cunningham at link Soul in Oceanside, California 822 00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,879 Speaker 2: are offering you a twenty five percent discount on all 823 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,359 Speaker 2: future orders of what I Wear all day, every day, 824 00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,960 Speaker 2: on and off the course. Whenever you go to linksoul 825 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,479 Speaker 2: dot com, just use promo code matty G twenty five 826 00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:23,920 Speaker 2: m A t t y G twenty five. Thank you 827 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,960 Speaker 2: for listening to the fire Pit. It's produced by Alex Upeggi. 828 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,279 Speaker 2: It's edited by Rex Lint. The theme song is by 829 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,120 Speaker 2: Joe Horowitz. Please rate and review this podcast on Apple 830 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,680 Speaker 2: Podcasts and we might track you down and send you 831 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:41,400 Speaker 2: one of our new Imperial rowpads. Got a question, comment, 832 00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:43,440 Speaker 2: or a story for us to track down. You can 833 00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,719 Speaker 2: find me on Twitter at Matt Janella or on Instagram 834 00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,640 Speaker 2: at matt Underscore Janella, and if you haven't already done so, 835 00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:55,360 Speaker 2: please subscribe to The fire Pit on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, 836 00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,480 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to a story like this one. 837 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:00,239 Speaker 2: You can also subscribe to work