WEBVTT - Pattern of Life 0:00:08.245 --> 0:00:15.805 School of Humans. We are on our way to the 0:00:16.005 --> 0:00:19.125 Little Rock Police substation and we are going to meet 0:00:19.165 --> 0:00:22.805 with Bruce Maxwell, who is now the detective on Ebbie's case. 0:00:24.045 --> 0:00:27.125 I think I don't expect a lot from this. I 0:00:27.165 --> 0:00:30.285 feel like this meaning, first of all, Bruce Maxwell never 0:00:30.365 --> 0:00:34.165 call me back. My honest impression is that after Laurie 0:00:34.325 --> 0:00:38.125 called the chief and made some calls, they all hung 0:00:38.165 --> 0:00:39.805 up the phone and went in there and said, can 0:00:39.845 --> 0:00:41.525 you just do this as a favor so this woman 0:00:41.525 --> 0:00:43.525 doesn't go to the news. That's actually what I feel 0:00:43.565 --> 0:00:46.765 like happen. But we'll see how it goes. I'll keep 0:00:46.765 --> 0:00:55.845 an open mind. How you feeling, Mike, I feel I 0:00:55.885 --> 0:01:00.005 feel not hopeful about them sharing information, but I think 0:01:00.125 --> 0:01:04.045 it will be important to to ask him the questions 0:01:04.085 --> 0:01:07.005 that we're going to ask, just to get the reaction 0:01:07.125 --> 0:01:12.205 from them, and also to press them and make them 0:01:12.285 --> 0:01:17.525 understand that we know more than what they think we know. 0:01:23.165 --> 0:02:01.845 I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone, Mike, our producer, 0:02:01.885 --> 0:02:04.565 Gabby and I are at the l RPD station. We're 0:02:04.605 --> 0:02:07.445 waiting to see Bruce Maxwell, the new detective on Ebbie's case. 0:02:10.085 --> 0:02:11.805 He agreed to meet with us, but he said, we 0:02:11.885 --> 0:02:14.525 can't record him. He's made it clear that he does 0:02:14.605 --> 0:02:18.125 not want to be in this podcast. He told us 0:02:18.125 --> 0:02:19.805 that he took the case over about a month ago, 0:02:20.445 --> 0:02:22.845 but he says he hasn't really done anything yet because 0:02:22.845 --> 0:02:27.445 he's had COVID. During the meeting, Bruce expressed and frustration 0:02:27.485 --> 0:02:29.365 at the massive amount of data that he's had to 0:02:29.405 --> 0:02:32.725 go through. The only thing he would say is that 0:02:33.125 --> 0:02:36.805 anything after the twenty sixth of October is bs. He 0:02:36.845 --> 0:02:40.725 wouldn't really elaborate, but he said, I will tell you that, 0:02:40.885 --> 0:02:42.885 and you figure out why I think that, and we'll 0:02:42.965 --> 0:02:48.845 let you know. Welcome to Arkansas, like I. So it 0:02:48.885 --> 0:02:52.845 was interesting because, as so many meetings with the police 0:02:52.885 --> 0:02:54.685 do here, it starts with them telling you they can't 0:02:54.725 --> 0:02:57.085 tell you anything and then ends with them telling you things. 0:02:57.445 --> 0:03:00.925 So here's what I got. Bruce got the case September 0:03:00.965 --> 0:03:05.365 of this year. Bruce caught COVID. He had nothing to 0:03:05.565 --> 0:03:08.485 say about the case in the beginning, said it would 0:03:08.485 --> 0:03:12.805 be irresponsible to discuss in the beginning right. He did 0:03:12.885 --> 0:03:17.525 specifically say that anything after the twenty six was bullshit. 0:03:18.605 --> 0:03:21.805 I proceeded to ask him about cell phone tower data. 0:03:22.205 --> 0:03:26.005 He said at first that they had it all, but 0:03:26.045 --> 0:03:29.165 then he said, well he really wasn't sure. What I 0:03:29.165 --> 0:03:33.845 thought was interesting, though, is that, like a lot of people, 0:03:33.965 --> 0:03:36.965 he seems to just sort of stick with that line 0:03:37.285 --> 0:03:40.805 of the FBI has already done everything, But then it 0:03:40.885 --> 0:03:42.765 kind of goes to, well, I'm pretty sure they've done everything. 0:03:42.765 --> 0:03:45.205 So it's like, if you actually don't know something's been done, 0:03:45.925 --> 0:03:53.645 why wouldn't you right right, It's just it's this sort 0:03:53.685 --> 0:03:56.605 of just well, it's been done. It's almost more important 0:03:56.645 --> 0:03:59.085 to insist that the box has been ticked, rather than 0:03:59.125 --> 0:04:02.285 like check and see if it's actually been done. It's 0:04:02.365 --> 0:04:06.685 it's weird. He also said he's currently starting from scratch, 0:04:06.805 --> 0:04:12.125 so it is December eighth today. He's not going to 0:04:12.165 --> 0:04:14.165 look at any of the notes. He's going to do 0:04:14.205 --> 0:04:18.045 all his cell tower data, which will take for one person. 0:04:19.325 --> 0:04:21.965 That could take him three to six more months for 0:04:22.085 --> 0:04:24.445 one person to do it individually. If you're not doing 0:04:24.485 --> 0:04:26.725 that every day, because he has other casework and receive 0:04:26.805 --> 0:04:29.605 phone calls about other cases that's going on, you know, 0:04:29.645 --> 0:04:31.605 while while he's in there, So he's not dedicating a 0:04:31.645 --> 0:04:33.685 team to this at all. He's taking all of this 0:04:33.845 --> 0:04:36.805 on him himself. I think we're just gonna have to 0:04:36.805 --> 0:04:39.565 do it ourselves. But it was important to go in there. 0:04:39.765 --> 0:04:42.325 I would say, it's not adversarial like at least he 0:04:42.765 --> 0:04:45.805 you know, he was very friendly. He was friendly and polite. 0:04:45.845 --> 0:04:47.565 And I told you what I said. We're gonna go 0:04:47.645 --> 0:04:50.485 in there and it's gonna be like I guarantee you 0:04:50.525 --> 0:04:51.885 it's gonna be that kind of thing where it's like, well, 0:04:51.925 --> 0:04:54.285 I better do this. Just to you know, yesterday there 0:04:54.325 --> 0:04:56.645 was a conversation that took place between the chief and 0:04:56.725 --> 0:04:58.725 him and he was like, I'm getting calls some Laurie, 0:04:59.245 --> 0:05:01.925 so can you just sit down with them and just 0:05:02.205 --> 0:05:05.965 you know, And that's exactly what happened. So that's my 0:05:06.045 --> 0:05:12.165 interpretation of what just took place. So the whole time 0:05:12.165 --> 0:05:15.205 that I've been investigating Ebbie's death, one issue we have 0:05:15.405 --> 0:05:18.165 is that the police have this timeline information, but we 0:05:18.205 --> 0:05:21.805 don't know what that information is. But what was conveyed 0:05:21.845 --> 0:05:24.805 to us by the LRPD and by former Detective Tommy 0:05:24.885 --> 0:05:28.285 Hudson is that the police do know Ebbie's whereabouts through 0:05:28.365 --> 0:05:31.125 Sunday and they know who she was with. We have 0:05:31.405 --> 0:05:35.845 found those people that were with her after the Friday 0:05:35.925 --> 0:05:37.725 night Insiday and I can track her all the way 0:05:37.765 --> 0:05:40.165 to early Sunday morning or Sunday afternoon when she talked 0:05:40.165 --> 0:05:42.725 to Trevor, which she was the last person she talked to. 0:05:43.485 --> 0:05:45.885 And you know these guys that I talked to over night, 0:05:46.005 --> 0:05:50.405 I mean, they are some shady guys. According to Laurie 0:05:50.405 --> 0:05:53.885 and Ebbie's stepdad Michael, the police have told them multiple 0:05:53.925 --> 0:05:56.605 times that they knew where Ebbie was on Saturday night. 0:05:57.805 --> 0:06:00.765 They've said she was quote safe, unharmed, and with friends. 0:06:01.605 --> 0:06:05.645 And Tommy kept saying she never met a stranger. She 0:06:05.645 --> 0:06:08.125 didn't meet a stranger. If she met one person for 0:06:08.205 --> 0:06:10.525 five minutes, she was meeting that person again, you know, 0:06:10.645 --> 0:06:14.445 several hours later and again especially if they're gonna, you know, 0:06:14.765 --> 0:06:17.685 do drugs or something like that. I mean, she was 0:06:17.805 --> 0:06:21.485 very transient. She didn't know a stranger. And I'm not 0:06:21.525 --> 0:06:24.685 trying to say she was making poor decisions because she's 0:06:24.725 --> 0:06:27.405 a teenage girl. I mean a teenage boys make poor 0:06:27.445 --> 0:06:30.485 decisions sometimes. But you know, I don't think she was 0:06:30.525 --> 0:06:34.845 ever apprehensive who she met or anything like that. And 0:06:34.925 --> 0:06:37.085 you know, didn't other's people out there that could hurt 0:06:37.125 --> 0:06:40.405 you or do bad things. And you know, I'm not 0:06:40.445 --> 0:06:42.325 saying these are the guys that did it. But it's 0:06:42.365 --> 0:06:45.285 just these guys have been and some of the guys 0:06:45.325 --> 0:06:48.965 are still on my radar as a today. This whole time, 0:06:49.405 --> 0:06:52.085 we've had no idea what was happening with Ebbie from 0:06:52.085 --> 0:06:54.925 the Saturday when she was with her grandparents to Sunday 0:06:54.965 --> 0:06:57.925 when she had that phone call with Trevor. But now 0:06:57.965 --> 0:07:00.525 we know that she was in contact with at least 0:07:00.605 --> 0:07:09.365 one more person. His name is Eric. Hello, Oh hey, Eric, 0:07:09.405 --> 0:07:13.045 thanks for calling back. Eric went to Central High School. 0:07:13.485 --> 0:07:16.085 He was on the football team, and everyone I talked 0:07:16.085 --> 0:07:18.605 to says that Eric is a nice guy. He was 0:07:18.645 --> 0:07:22.325 someone who adored Ebbi. Laurie said that she believed Eric 0:07:22.405 --> 0:07:24.845 was totally in love with her daughter and devoted to her. 0:07:25.485 --> 0:07:27.085 I don't know if I ever told her I loved her, 0:07:27.245 --> 0:07:28.805 got the chance to tell her, you know, but like 0:07:28.885 --> 0:07:30.805 I had loved her. We knew we liked each other, 0:07:30.845 --> 0:07:32.725 and that's why we liked told each other like I'm 0:07:32.725 --> 0:07:34.645 always be there for you, Like we had being through 0:07:35.525 --> 0:07:38.165 a lot already together, so we would just you know, 0:07:38.205 --> 0:07:39.965 I had to understand it, and like we give out 0:07:39.965 --> 0:07:42.205 at each other, but you know, we still cared about 0:07:42.205 --> 0:07:44.565 each other. We still wanted each other to be okay. 0:07:46.085 --> 0:07:49.005 Eric and Ebbie met shortly after Ebbie started at Central 0:07:49.085 --> 0:07:52.645 High School in August twenty fifteen. They had a pre 0:07:52.725 --> 0:07:55.925 calculus class together. Eric said he was good at math 0:07:56.005 --> 0:07:59.365 and he would help Ebby with her homework. At first, 0:07:59.365 --> 0:08:02.005 he says, they started hanging out through friends in a 0:08:02.005 --> 0:08:05.045 group that included his sister, a girl named Carly, and 0:08:05.205 --> 0:08:08.805 another their girl named Mary. Eric had just come out 0:08:08.805 --> 0:08:11.605 of a long relationship, and at one point Ebbie had 0:08:11.605 --> 0:08:15.085 been dating his cousin. But soon Ebbie and Eric started 0:08:15.085 --> 0:08:18.565 hanging out one on one. Ebby had texting me about 0:08:18.805 --> 0:08:21.005 something I can't remember, but then she ended up coming 0:08:21.045 --> 0:08:23.085 over that we ended up going and smoking. I just 0:08:23.125 --> 0:08:25.205 remember that being like one of the firsure real times 0:08:25.285 --> 0:08:28.925 we hung out without, you know, everybody, because I wasn't 0:08:28.965 --> 0:08:31.245 even thinking about relationships, and at that time that was 0:08:31.285 --> 0:08:34.485 like right in the middle of football season, so it 0:08:34.645 --> 0:08:38.165 actually didn't kind of do come naturally. And then you 0:08:38.205 --> 0:08:39.925 guys were I mean, would you were you just kind 0:08:39.925 --> 0:08:42.605 of hanging out or were your boyfriend girlfriend or so 0:08:42.965 --> 0:08:46.605 we like when we first started talking, we you know, 0:08:46.685 --> 0:08:49.485 we're trying to make it that but we were both 0:08:49.645 --> 0:08:51.925 and we both like we're stilled talking to other people. 0:08:52.525 --> 0:08:55.125 But what happened was the real reason why we never 0:08:55.125 --> 0:08:58.045 really started dating like Ebbie. Like I said, Ebbie was 0:08:58.125 --> 0:09:00.525 you know, free spirits, so she would just do with anything, 0:09:00.645 --> 0:09:10.165 go hang out, you know, with anybody. When I was 0:09:10.165 --> 0:09:13.845 talking Eric, he also told me about Chalamont Park. This 0:09:13.885 --> 0:09:16.565 whole time, no one has been able to tell me 0:09:16.925 --> 0:09:20.725 why Ebbie was at that park specifically. Eric said that 0:09:20.765 --> 0:09:23.805 Ebbie loved hanging out in Chelmont Park. In fact, he 0:09:23.925 --> 0:09:27.965 said she considered it her happy place. He has memories 0:09:27.965 --> 0:09:30.765 of going there with her, pushing her on the carousel 0:09:31.165 --> 0:09:34.325 and hanging out in the little playground area. Eric said 0:09:34.365 --> 0:09:36.805 that high school kids would sometimes hang out in that park. 0:09:37.325 --> 0:09:39.525 They would kick back, have a few drinks, or maybe 0:09:39.525 --> 0:09:42.765 do drugs or hook up. It was considered a safe 0:09:42.765 --> 0:09:46.405 place somewhere where you could have some privacy. You said 0:09:46.405 --> 0:09:48.245 that when y'all were hanging out, I mean people would 0:09:48.285 --> 0:09:50.445 like hang out and drink and things like that, but 0:09:50.485 --> 0:09:52.845 you never saw anyone like in the man hole doing 0:09:52.845 --> 0:09:57.325 stuff like there's not even something that it was disgusting. 0:09:57.485 --> 0:09:59.405 Is not something that you know, people want to do. 0:10:00.645 --> 0:10:03.165 Eric also said that he knew Ebbie did hang out 0:10:03.165 --> 0:10:06.565 there with other people, people he didn't no, and people 0:10:06.605 --> 0:10:09.325 he says that sometimes did drugs with her. You know, 0:10:09.365 --> 0:10:10.885 I wish I would have talked to her more about 0:10:10.965 --> 0:10:13.165 in essence, because then I maybe would know, you know, 0:10:13.325 --> 0:10:16.845 some names to give, but I, like, I wouldn't want 0:10:16.885 --> 0:10:19.885 to know who she was, you know who else. But 0:10:20.005 --> 0:10:22.885 we were telling every like, you can't keep hanging out with, 0:10:23.485 --> 0:10:26.485 you know, random people. She was just ways she wasn't 0:10:27.005 --> 0:10:30.405 as cautious that she should have been. But you shouldn't 0:10:30.405 --> 0:10:33.165 even live like cautiously, so I can't even necessarily really 0:10:33.205 --> 0:10:36.565 blame her. And during this time, Eric saw Abby doing 0:10:36.565 --> 0:10:40.445 increasingly risky behavior, like one time he said she wanted 0:10:40.485 --> 0:10:42.885 to get a tattoo, but she wasn't going to a 0:10:42.885 --> 0:10:45.005 tattoo shop. And this was one of the only time 0:10:45.085 --> 0:10:47.405 she ever asked me to go somewhere, like actually go 0:10:47.565 --> 0:10:50.325 somewhere with her, like usually it's just to hang out. Oh, 0:10:50.365 --> 0:10:52.485 let's find something to do. I think it was because 0:10:52.565 --> 0:10:54.445 like the way to little set of lay Duty, he 0:10:54.525 --> 0:10:56.725 was a dude. He was chilling on the couch when 0:10:56.725 --> 0:10:58.125 we walked in this house, and then there was an 0:10:58.045 --> 0:10:59.965 a k pourt. He said it on the table, and 0:11:00.045 --> 0:11:01.725 that's the whole time. I told her, I like, you 0:11:01.765 --> 0:11:03.725 don't need to be in places like that. And then 0:11:03.765 --> 0:11:05.245 we went to the back room or whatever it is 0:11:05.725 --> 0:11:07.925 that looked like he probably was on crack ten years 0:11:07.925 --> 0:11:12.485 ago with a Jackie tattooed and they were doing tattoos. 0:11:15.645 --> 0:11:18.085 Eric was on the football team, so he was friends 0:11:18.125 --> 0:11:21.605 with c and with l. They weren't people who, to 0:11:21.685 --> 0:11:24.005 his knowledge, were caught up in violence or in drugs. 0:11:25.005 --> 0:11:28.045 He did say they might smoke some pot or drink. Basically, 0:11:28.125 --> 0:11:30.565 he described them as pretty much normal high school kids. 0:11:31.925 --> 0:11:35.205 The week before the party, Eric and Ebbie weren't really talking. 0:11:36.165 --> 0:11:38.285 Eric said that one of their friends lied to Ebby 0:11:38.405 --> 0:11:41.525 about Eric cooking up with someone else, so the two 0:11:41.565 --> 0:11:43.605 of them seemed to try to get back at each other. 0:11:44.885 --> 0:11:47.525 Eric thinks that that's part of the reason why Ebbie 0:11:47.565 --> 0:11:51.565 went to hang out with CNL that night. But after 0:11:51.605 --> 0:11:55.605 the party, Eric got a DM from Ebbie. She DMI 0:11:55.805 --> 0:11:58.885 saying that something happened to whatever, and I'm pretty sure 0:11:58.885 --> 0:12:00.925 in the DMOR she said, you know, she was raped 0:12:00.925 --> 0:12:02.925 to say should be at and I think I was 0:12:02.965 --> 0:12:04.765 asking her questions, but she didn't really want to talk 0:12:04.805 --> 0:12:06.725 about it. I will now say I just come over. 0:12:07.885 --> 0:12:11.285 She was stressed out, she was being a destroyer. Eric 0:12:11.365 --> 0:12:14.765 comforted her, but at this point he didn't know where 0:12:14.805 --> 0:12:18.685 she had been or who she'd been with. She slept 0:12:18.685 --> 0:12:21.725 in Eric's sister's bed. They had breakfast together in the morning, 0:12:22.685 --> 0:12:26.005 and then he says that he believed she was determined 0:12:26.045 --> 0:12:28.565 to talk to her family and possibly go to the 0:12:28.565 --> 0:12:32.805 police about the alleged sexual assault. He says he can't 0:12:32.845 --> 0:12:35.925 remember if they sent any more texts on Saturday, but 0:12:36.005 --> 0:12:39.245 according to what we have from police, Ebbie sent Eric 0:12:39.285 --> 0:12:42.245 an Instagram message on Saturday night at around six forty 0:12:42.245 --> 0:12:46.165 five pm, and in that message, she said she was 0:12:46.205 --> 0:12:50.205 still at Moppy's house. Moppy was Ebbie's nickname for her grandmother, 0:12:51.165 --> 0:12:54.125 and Detective Bruce Maxwell said in an email to Laurie 0:12:54.525 --> 0:12:57.725 that Ebbie had had no contact with anyone from Saturday 0:12:57.725 --> 0:13:00.205 evening when she sent the DMS to Eric, until Sunday 0:13:00.245 --> 0:13:04.085 when she called Trevor. But Eric tells us that is 0:13:04.165 --> 0:13:16.005 not true. We'll be right back. On Sunday, Eric got 0:13:16.085 --> 0:13:20.885 a call from Ebbie's brother, Trevor. Trevor told him that 0:13:20.965 --> 0:13:23.405 they couldn't find Ebby, and he asked if he'd seen her. 0:13:23.805 --> 0:13:27.365 I lived in a high rise condo, came in, I 0:13:27.365 --> 0:13:29.725 would rather call me. I was in the lobby when 0:13:29.725 --> 0:13:31.205 he called me, like our kind of crows, Like I 0:13:31.325 --> 0:13:34.885 never moved until until I actually talked to her. This 0:13:34.965 --> 0:13:39.365 means that Eric also talked to Ebby on Sunday. He 0:13:39.445 --> 0:13:41.525 can't remember if she called him back or if he 0:13:41.605 --> 0:13:44.485 finally got through to her, but he does remember what 0:13:44.605 --> 0:13:48.085 happened after she picked up. It's something that has haunted 0:13:48.165 --> 0:13:53.605 him for years. Do you remember the very last time 0:13:53.645 --> 0:13:59.245 you talked to her on Sunday? It was either right 0:13:59.325 --> 0:14:02.805 before I'm almost positives, right before she talked to her brother, 0:14:04.445 --> 0:14:06.605 And what did she say? What was she like? Then? 0:14:07.885 --> 0:14:10.045 She wasn't really good at as I was trying to 0:14:10.085 --> 0:14:12.205 see where she was, and she didn't tell me anything 0:14:12.325 --> 0:14:15.485 that I could actually help. She said, I'm sorry. A 0:14:15.565 --> 0:14:18.285 couple of times. It was weird, like I never heard 0:14:18.285 --> 0:14:20.165 a voice sound like that, Like I said, like, you know, 0:14:20.245 --> 0:14:23.685 she would go crazy places like I've never seen or scared, 0:14:23.805 --> 0:14:26.165 you know, like I've even heard of a cry, but 0:14:26.285 --> 0:14:31.205 like that was a different, like just was scared. Ebbie 0:14:31.245 --> 0:14:34.405 sounded totally out of it, like she had been roofied. 0:14:35.685 --> 0:14:38.165 Eric said that in the past he had seen Ebbie 0:14:38.205 --> 0:14:41.205 smoke pot or maybe do some party drugs sometimes like 0:14:41.285 --> 0:14:45.245 molly or coke, but never meth or heroine. He said 0:14:45.285 --> 0:14:47.285 that he had no idea what would make her sound 0:14:47.325 --> 0:14:50.765 like this. The way she sounded that she sounded exhausted, 0:14:51.325 --> 0:14:53.965 She sounded like out of it. She sounded like in 0:14:54.085 --> 0:14:56.965 cohering like she didn't really like she might not have 0:14:57.045 --> 0:14:59.245 like she knew where she was, but she couldn't. Either 0:14:59.285 --> 0:15:02.485 she knew where she was and she couldn't like explain it, 0:15:02.645 --> 0:15:04.805 or she just like was so out of it that 0:15:04.845 --> 0:15:06.765 she didn't eve she might not even know where she 0:15:06.925 --> 0:15:09.245 was at that point, like she was just like that 0:15:09.405 --> 0:15:14.165 far gone. Eric was focused, he says, on putting Ebby 0:15:14.245 --> 0:15:18.045 in touch with her brother. I knew something was wrong, 0:15:18.085 --> 0:15:19.885 but I thought he was gonna be Aby's gonna have 0:15:19.965 --> 0:15:30.805 to go to rehab. Once Ebby was in touch with Trevor, 0:15:31.445 --> 0:15:34.165 Eric said he kind of relaxed at this point. He 0:15:34.205 --> 0:15:37.045 thought Ebby would get the help she needed. She's at 0:15:37.045 --> 0:15:39.525 a load right now. She needs, you know, actually helps. 0:15:39.565 --> 0:15:41.445 She needs somebody that's gonna be able to take her 0:15:41.565 --> 0:15:44.045 to somewhere where she can, you know, get the help 0:15:44.125 --> 0:15:46.685 she you know, it's the same like that's happened before, 0:15:46.845 --> 0:15:50.005 Like Eby has somebody stressed out and going to get 0:15:50.005 --> 0:15:51.805 in contact with her Emby because if you know, her 0:15:51.845 --> 0:15:55.405 faults don't work. So Eric just mentioned that her phones 0:15:55.485 --> 0:16:01.165 don't work sometimes. That's phones plural. Laurie also forwarded me 0:16:01.205 --> 0:16:03.085 a photo of some stuff from the front seat of 0:16:03.085 --> 0:16:07.165 Ebbie's car. It's blurry, but it looks like a receipt 0:16:07.205 --> 0:16:11.085 for a Straight Talk phone number. All of the records 0:16:11.085 --> 0:16:13.805 we have are from Ebbie's primary phone, the one her 0:16:13.805 --> 0:16:17.605 parents paid for. Could Ebbie have had a second phone 0:16:18.165 --> 0:16:24.125 and was it ever found? I talk a lot about victimology, 0:16:24.765 --> 0:16:28.685 trying to get inside a victim's head. On Saturday, October 0:16:28.805 --> 0:16:32.205 twenty fourth, the day after the party, Ebbie sent that 0:16:32.325 --> 0:16:34.685 text to her friend Gage to say that she had 0:16:34.685 --> 0:16:38.045 been recorded without her consent. She ended that text with 0:16:38.125 --> 0:16:42.045 the line I'm going to go kill myself. So we 0:16:42.205 --> 0:16:45.405 do have to consider the possibility that she may have 0:16:45.525 --> 0:16:50.005 been in a suicidal state of mind. According to Eric, 0:16:50.365 --> 0:16:53.405 Ebbie was upset about what had been happening in her life, 0:16:53.445 --> 0:16:56.205 all the chaos and about what happened to her on 0:16:56.245 --> 0:16:59.605 Friday night, You don't think she would have had suicidal 0:16:59.645 --> 0:17:04.165 thoughts or anything like that. I mean, honestly, like, I'm 0:17:04.245 --> 0:17:06.765 not gonna you know, it passed her just because of 0:17:06.885 --> 0:17:08.965 the way life was going, Like me and her weren't 0:17:08.965 --> 0:17:11.965 the best, her mom and her mom and stepdad. You know, 0:17:12.365 --> 0:17:14.805 she felt like they didn't want hurt everything that was 0:17:14.845 --> 0:17:18.205 going on at school, and then after the video situation 0:17:18.285 --> 0:17:21.605 and her probably feeling like the police weren't gonna do 0:17:21.605 --> 0:17:23.605 nothing because I mean, I'm not saying and she wouldn't 0:17:23.645 --> 0:17:26.285 against suicide. Like that's enough to make anybody, you know, 0:17:26.805 --> 0:17:29.405 had thoughts. But I don't think that's the type of 0:17:29.445 --> 0:17:31.805 person Ebbie was. Like, she was a fighter for sure, 0:17:31.965 --> 0:17:34.605 Like and that's the whole reason she didn't go back home, 0:17:34.645 --> 0:17:36.605 because she felt like she could do it on her own. 0:17:36.645 --> 0:17:39.605 You know. Yeah, even if she was, let's say, I 0:17:39.645 --> 0:17:41.685 don't believe she did have suicide thoughts of that day. 0:17:41.725 --> 0:17:44.045 But even if she did, how does that explain her 0:17:44.165 --> 0:17:47.605 being in a pipe? It doesn't. That's that's where the 0:17:47.725 --> 0:17:50.925 disconnected is. That's why I'm almost positive that it wasn't 0:17:50.965 --> 0:17:55.525 just hurt by herself. Looking at Ebbie's movements on Saturday 0:17:55.525 --> 0:18:00.205 and into Sunday, nothing there indicates a person who's contemplating suicide. 0:18:01.365 --> 0:18:04.805 Later that Saturday afternoon, after Ebbie had sent that text 0:18:04.805 --> 0:18:08.925 to Gauge, Ebby's despair had turned to anger. She googled 0:18:08.965 --> 0:18:12.285 sexual assault Anne how to file a police report. Her 0:18:12.365 --> 0:18:15.485 phone records show that she dialed the Little Rock Police Department, 0:18:16.125 --> 0:18:18.485 and her close friends and family say they didn't see 0:18:18.525 --> 0:18:22.285 anything off about her behavior. Ebbie went to Danielle's house 0:18:22.325 --> 0:18:25.005 at some point, and Danielle has said that she didn't 0:18:25.005 --> 0:18:27.845 seem to be in distress, and we also know her 0:18:27.845 --> 0:18:30.685 grandparents didn't see anything out of the ordinary with her behavior, 0:18:31.485 --> 0:18:35.645 and even into Sunday when she talked to Trevor, she 0:18:35.805 --> 0:18:39.445 was not expressing any kind of suicidal thoughts. She was 0:18:39.525 --> 0:18:48.805 asking for help. We'll be right back. Since we started 0:18:48.805 --> 0:18:52.205 our investigation, I haven't had any more direct contact with 0:18:52.245 --> 0:18:55.845 the detective Bruce Maxwell. That meeting we had was in 0:18:55.885 --> 0:18:59.885 December twenty twenty one. This episode comes out April twenty 0:18:59.925 --> 0:19:03.085 twenty two, and Laurie just called me with updates from 0:19:03.085 --> 0:19:06.485 Bruce's investigation. And when Laurie told me about what's been 0:19:06.485 --> 0:19:10.325 going on. I was shocked. I called up Mike and 0:19:10.365 --> 0:19:14.165 Gabby to give them the latest updates. So, Katherine, can 0:19:14.165 --> 0:19:15.885 you give us some updates about like what's going on 0:19:15.885 --> 0:19:19.205 with me? Yeah? Well, you remember when we saw Bruce 0:19:19.485 --> 0:19:22.245 a few weeks ago and he said that he hadn't 0:19:22.285 --> 0:19:25.725 even really started looking at Ebbie's case, he'd only had 0:19:25.725 --> 0:19:28.725 it for a few weeks. Well, since then, there's been 0:19:28.765 --> 0:19:31.525 a lot of back and forth between Bruce and Laurie. 0:19:31.645 --> 0:19:36.565 Laurie says Bruce told her that the timeline was completely wrong, 0:19:37.165 --> 0:19:39.285 that all this time, for six and a half years, 0:19:39.565 --> 0:19:42.605 the police thought they knew where Ebbie was on Saturday night. 0:19:43.005 --> 0:19:45.525 And you remember, they've been telling us this whole time 0:19:45.885 --> 0:19:48.365 that she was safe and with friends, and they had 0:19:48.405 --> 0:19:50.445 that time accounted for, and that the only time they 0:19:50.485 --> 0:19:52.885 didn't know where she was was on Sunday, shortly around 0:19:52.885 --> 0:19:55.565 the time before she went missing. But now Bruce is 0:19:55.605 --> 0:19:59.565 saying that he's seen some pictures on Ebbie's phone that 0:19:59.605 --> 0:20:02.285 he says, I've never been looked at. He says the 0:20:02.325 --> 0:20:05.005 timeline is off by a whole day, that in fact, 0:20:05.005 --> 0:20:08.045 police don't know where she was on Saturday night, and 0:20:08.405 --> 0:20:11.365 she sent an Instagram message from her grandparents. She was 0:20:11.445 --> 0:20:14.045 dming on Saturday afternoon, and after that they have no 0:20:14.125 --> 0:20:16.485 idea where she was until the phone call with Trevor. 0:20:17.005 --> 0:20:21.365 That's huge, But then it got a little weird because 0:20:21.445 --> 0:20:24.845 at that point I really expected Bruce to say, Okay, 0:20:24.885 --> 0:20:26.565 we have the timeline wrong. We're now going to go 0:20:26.645 --> 0:20:30.085 reinterview everyone. We're going to start from scratch. But instead 0:20:30.205 --> 0:20:33.085 what happened was shortly after that, he told Laurie that 0:20:33.125 --> 0:20:37.605 the only conclusion he could come to was that Ebbie 0:20:37.805 --> 0:20:41.165 had crawled down in the dream pipe herself, either because 0:20:41.205 --> 0:20:45.245 she was having some sort of suicidal thoughts or because 0:20:45.325 --> 0:20:48.205 she just crawled down there and got stuck, and that 0:20:48.365 --> 0:20:52.605 is his conclusion. He said also that there is no 0:20:52.685 --> 0:20:55.285 more work to be done on her case file, but 0:20:55.525 --> 0:20:59.445 he won't close the case officially. Well, when you close 0:20:59.525 --> 0:21:02.205 the case, then that opened the door to look at 0:21:02.205 --> 0:21:04.965 all of this information. It's the worst possible outcome for 0:21:04.965 --> 0:21:08.285 the family because what it means is they won't officially 0:21:08.325 --> 0:21:11.885 close it. They're keeping it officially an open and active investigation. 0:21:12.245 --> 0:21:14.725 I'm using air quotes now, which means that no one 0:21:14.805 --> 0:21:17.365 can look at it. It's all confidential, but it's just 0:21:17.405 --> 0:21:19.925 sitting there collecting dust. So that's a terrible outcome for 0:21:19.965 --> 0:21:25.845 our family. Laurie tells me she's devastated. She feels like 0:21:25.925 --> 0:21:29.405 six and a half years later, she's back at square one. 0:21:30.045 --> 0:21:32.885 How can they be closing the case file, especially if 0:21:32.885 --> 0:21:34.925 they have so much data they need to review and 0:21:35.045 --> 0:21:39.245 to redo the entire timeline. I've said before in past 0:21:39.285 --> 0:21:41.845 seasons that while it can be frustrating to have zero 0:21:41.925 --> 0:21:44.885 access to the case files, the positive side of that 0:21:45.045 --> 0:21:47.125 is the fact that we know that everything we do 0:21:47.205 --> 0:21:51.245 have we've verified ourselves. But I keep feeling like with 0:21:51.325 --> 0:21:55.045 Ebbie's case, we're missing something. It feels like the scene 0:21:55.085 --> 0:21:57.525 at the end of the movie The Usual Suspects, after 0:21:57.565 --> 0:21:59.645 the detective has been listening to Kevin space he taught 0:21:59.685 --> 0:22:03.085 for hours. He steps back from that courtboard and realizes 0:22:03.165 --> 0:22:06.645 he was being misled from the very beginning. It feels 0:22:06.685 --> 0:22:09.605 like the pieces are all here, but we just can't 0:22:09.685 --> 0:22:13.245 quite put them together in the right order yet. So 0:22:13.285 --> 0:22:16.005 I go back again to the very beginning of the case. 0:22:17.205 --> 0:22:20.685 What did we know then? We had heard the media 0:22:20.765 --> 0:22:23.525 narrative about Friday Night, which we now know was wrong 0:22:24.405 --> 0:22:26.445 because there weren't four guys who would have had a 0:22:26.485 --> 0:22:29.605 motive to do Ebby harm. There was one person who 0:22:29.645 --> 0:22:33.925 Ebby was having a dispute with. What about the crime scene. 0:22:35.125 --> 0:22:38.125 We've always heard that the security guard was the first 0:22:38.165 --> 0:22:40.885 person who reported Ebbie's card to the police, and that 0:22:40.965 --> 0:22:44.965 he called the police on multiple days, but there seems 0:22:44.965 --> 0:22:49.405 to be some confusion about this. The neighbor Lee said 0:22:49.485 --> 0:22:52.245 she told the security guard about the car after noticing 0:22:52.285 --> 0:22:54.165 it in the parking lot for several days in a row. 0:22:55.365 --> 0:22:58.725 He told her money and others that he had called 0:22:58.725 --> 0:23:02.925