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Speaker 1: All right, welcome in it's our Sunday Night Monday Morning
Speaker 1: podcast with Jason Timpf Hoops tonight. We'll be doing this
Speaker 1: for the next six to seven weeks during the NBA
Speaker 1: playoffs and sometimes Simplicity wins. I'll give you an example.
Speaker 1: So I went to I usually go workout in the mornings.
Speaker 1: I get up at about six six fifteen coffee, you know, playwordle,
Speaker 1: do some reading, and at about seven thirty seven forty
Speaker 1: five I go workout. I did it this morning. And
Speaker 1: then from the workout there's a Bristol Farms, a grocery
Speaker 1: restore right next to my gym, and I usually go
Speaker 1: there and get a piece of fish that I'll have
Speaker 1: for lunch. I grew up on the coast of Washington State.
Speaker 1: I like my seafood. My kids like their seafood. So
Speaker 1: I did that this morning, go work out the incline, cardio,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, And I go to the store. And
Speaker 1: I'm not blaming the store at all. This is happening everywhere.
Speaker 1: And I get a little smoothie in the smoothie bar,
Speaker 1: and then I go get to fish, piece of salmon.
Speaker 1: I grew up in Westport, Washington, which was along with Waukegan, Illinois.
Speaker 1: We used to battle of small towns for salmon capital
Speaker 1: of the world. That was the marquis that was in
Speaker 1: the town. So I grew up with a lot of salmon,
Speaker 1: a lot of fish, a lot of oysters, a lot
Speaker 1: of clams. So when I'm not somebody i've been, I'm
Speaker 1: very lucky. I've done well, and I'm very grateful for that.
Speaker 1: I don't spend a lot of time checking my food bills.
Speaker 1: I kind of go get what I want to get.
Speaker 1: So I go to the grocery store probably twice a week.
Speaker 1: It's about generally, it's always been about forty five bucks,
Speaker 1: forty eight bucks. That's now become sixty dollars. So when
Speaker 1: I notice it. I think I don't really check this
Speaker 1: stuff that much, so if I'm noticing it, it feels like, oh,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are. So this morning
Speaker 1: when I checked out with my piece of salmon, and
Speaker 1: it wasn't a gigantic piece of salmon. It was pretty
Speaker 1: pretty slim, a small like lunch portion, it was nineteen
Speaker 1: and a half dollars, and usually that's closer to thirteen
Speaker 1: or fourteen for a small piece of fish. Now, I
Speaker 1: know fish is a luxury. Some people can't afford it. Whatever,
Speaker 1: some people can't. I'm lucky, so sometimes we outthink the room.
Speaker 1: I watch a lot of these political shows that I
Speaker 1: don't normally watch, but I will now be engaged from
Speaker 1: about late April May all the way to November. I'll
Speaker 1: watch them more than I usually would in election years,
Speaker 1: and watching all these political pundits. The only thing that's
Speaker 1: gonna matter in this election, because you know, the trial
Speaker 1: with Trump is going to, you know, beat him up.
Speaker 1: There's gonna people be people win or lose that are
Speaker 1: going to move off Trump independence with But I told
Speaker 1: this to my daughter. I said, you know, we never
Speaker 1: talked about grocery prices. This morning, I went and got
Speaker 1: a piece of salmon. It was nineteen dollars. It's usually
Speaker 1: like thirteen, fourteen. A year ago, a year and a
Speaker 1: half ago. She goes, Dad, that's all my friends talk
Speaker 1: about how expensive food is. She was like, that's a
Speaker 1: big topic of conversation. She's like, you know, cause we're
Speaker 1: all live and check the check. You know, we really
Speaker 1: know when we go out eat sum at home, we
Speaker 1: can only do appetizers. All we talk about is the
Speaker 1: grocery store and how expensive it is. And I was
Speaker 1: thinking about this, is that the election is going to
Speaker 1: come down to this. If the cost for the average
Speaker 1: family continues. If you're driving through McDonald's and it's twenty
Speaker 1: two dollars and it used to be thirteen. So now
Speaker 1: you need a second bill. Not getting seven dollars back
Speaker 1: on a twenty dollars bill, then Biden's in trouble. That's
Speaker 1: the election. You can talk about Ukraine, you could talk about.
Speaker 1: That's the election. Incumbents win. When the economy's good. It
Speaker 1: doesn't matter exactly where the stock market is or where
Speaker 1: the housing market is. If people are getting the most
Speaker 1: out of their check, they're generally happy and don't want change.
Speaker 1: People freak out with any change, especially political change. So
Speaker 1: as I say that, the reason I tell you that
Speaker 1: story is as I was watching the Lakers and the Nuggets,
Speaker 1: and you know, whenever it happens, it's you bang on
Speaker 1: the officials, and you bang on Darvin Ham, and you
Speaker 1: bang on DiAngelo Russell and once again, you know against
Speaker 1: the Nuggets. All Laker Nugget games look the exact same,
Speaker 1: But it really comes down to this. They get an
Speaker 1: automatic bucket second half, third quarter, or fourth quarter every
Speaker 1: time they need it. With Jokich, that's the series. The
Speaker 1: Lakers don't have an automatic bucket. Now, ad offensively is
Speaker 1: usually good three out of four games. Reeves, di'angelo Russell
Speaker 1: can be good, but can dry up Lebron. You know
Speaker 1: he's not going to give you the full energy he
Speaker 1: gave you six years ago. Jokicch either gets the bucket
Speaker 1: or gets the ball to somebody that gets a bucket.
Speaker 1: And that's sort of the difference in the last nine
Speaker 1: games where Denver beats the Lakers, is that their number
Speaker 1: one offensive threat in the second half of games, he's
Speaker 1: an automatic, He's a pat from a top field goal kicker,
Speaker 1: and you're just not That's the series because the gate
Speaker 1: the Lakers have the size, they match up with Denver.
Speaker 1: But it's just third quarter, fourth quarter, six seven, eight
Speaker 1: possessions that matter. You have a much higher statistical chance
Speaker 1: to get a bucket with a Jokic than you do
Speaker 1: with Lebron or ad all Right, we bring in Jason
Speaker 1: timpf hoops tonight and over the next six to seven weeks.
Speaker 1: This is what we do. We chop it up. We
Speaker 1: give middle Coff. You know, we're a nice company. We
Speaker 1: give middle Cough a little vacation time. Jason could take
Speaker 1: this in August and September, November or whatever. Well, he
Speaker 1: doesn't take November off. He's an NBA head. All right,
Speaker 1: let's bring him in. Jason temp Okay, my theory, my
Speaker 1: thoughts about Yokic fire away. What do you see?
Speaker 3: So you know, it's funny. I did my film session
Speaker 3: this morning. I just recorded one for my channel that
Speaker 3: has I think twenty seven clips from last night's game,
Speaker 3: and really everything came down to these two stretches. There's
Speaker 3: a ten to zero run for Denver in the middle
Speaker 3: of the second quarter, and there was a thirteen oh
Speaker 3: run for Denver in the middle of the third quarter,
Speaker 3: and the execution for the Lakers was atrocious. As I
Speaker 3: sifted through those two runs, they had one good offensive
Speaker 3: possession and the totality of those two runs, and you know,
Speaker 3: I did this whole rant on the show about execution
Speaker 3: and all the different things that the Lakers have to
Speaker 3: tighten up, and the reality is is they have to
Speaker 3: play perfect, yeah to beat Denver. Yeah, And no one
Speaker 3: plays perfect, and that really is the issue because like
Speaker 3: even in those even in those runs, a lot of
Speaker 3: it is just Denver flexing their muscles. And what happens
Speaker 3: is that Denver kind of just does that all game long,
Speaker 3: and then you hang onto the rope and you hang
Speaker 3: on for dear life. And the Lakers were on it
Speaker 3: for about a quarter and a half, you know, and
Speaker 3: then when they let go, like that ten to ozero
Speaker 3: run in the second quarter was less than two minutes,
Speaker 3: that the thirteen oh run in the third quarter was
Speaker 3: less than three and a half minutes. Ironically, I thought
Speaker 3: the big swing factor in the game was Delo and Austin.
Speaker 3: Both were just clearly dead on arrival, Like both of
Speaker 3: them were just not ready for that game, and that
Speaker 3: put the onus of the shot creation all on Lebron,
Speaker 3: and one of the consistent themes for the Lakers all
Speaker 3: year is when Lebron gets tired, he gets sloppy. And
Speaker 3: when I hate going after Lebron like this because I
Speaker 3: thought he was mostly awesome, same last night, but he
Speaker 3: was the primary culprit of those two bad runs, and
Speaker 3: it just was like he got tired, he got sloppy.
Speaker 3: There was no one else there that could execute the
Speaker 3: offense without him kind of initiating things, and the wheels
Speaker 3: came off, and so, yes, there's a pathway, Yes there
Speaker 3: are adjustments, there's a bunch of different things the Lakers
Speaker 3: can do, but the reality is is like expecting them
Speaker 3: to do that four times in the next six games.
Speaker 4: It's just highly unlike.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you go to the end of the game,
Speaker 1: the last eight or nine minutes, Lebron doesn't take a
Speaker 1: lot of shots. And I think he's frustrated with Dangelo
Speaker 1: Russell I said when I suggested, you know, guys, facing
Speaker 1: Okac for a lot of reasons, is better than Denver.
Speaker 1: One of them was the repercussion of getting clobbered again
Speaker 1: by Denver. Lebron's got some player options at the end
Speaker 1: of the season. They get swept again by Denver, beaten
Speaker 1: five back to back gears. He's sitting there thinking, Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't trust Darvin Delo doesn't work for me. We
Speaker 1: need another player. And by the way, Draymond and Lebron
Speaker 1: are close. Those guys are looking for another big body.
Speaker 1: Steph needs somebody next to him that can give him
Speaker 1: thirty two minutes and twenty six points. That's what he's
Speaker 1: looking for, and not a shooter. Not somebody's gonna take
Speaker 1: the ball out of his hands too. And by the way,
Speaker 1: Steph can play off ball on ball, and so I
Speaker 1: think what you're seeing. I almost felt a little bit
Speaker 1: last night like Lebron was out of gas. But he
Speaker 1: gets frustrated. It's like D'Angelo, you gotta have one good
Speaker 1: game against these You gotta give me one, brother, you
Speaker 1: gotta give me a twenty nine point game. And I
Speaker 1: think this series is really hard on Lebron mentally, because
Speaker 1: he is really at this point.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I thought he played really well last night mostly and
Speaker 1: ad who didn't, by the way, get on ballot for
Speaker 1: Defensive Player of the Year, which is another issue. Entirely.
Speaker 1: I thought he was the best defensive player in the League.
Speaker 1: But I do wonder the repercussions of this series because
Speaker 1: Denver's better. You see it, I see at Denver's better.
Speaker 1: They're starting their first six, are just better. Home court advantage,
Speaker 1: high altitude, I mean, just makes it harder and harder
Speaker 1: and harder. Even the altitude matters. What are the repercussions?
Speaker 1: How do you look at this roster if they lose
Speaker 1: in five?
Speaker 3: You know it's interesting because I your friend Nick Wright,
Speaker 3: came on your show a couple of weeks ago and
Speaker 3: he pitched the whole like the Lakers should try to
Speaker 3: get Denver in round one thing. And initially I disagreed
Speaker 3: with him because I was sitting there thinking like, no,
Speaker 3: like you want Jared Vanderbilt to get back, you want
Speaker 3: Their defense really only started to kind of pick up
Speaker 3: in the last couple of weeks of the year, so
Speaker 3: I thought another month of just playoff basketball to polish
Speaker 3: up their defense could really help. And so I was
Speaker 3: kind of against that take. But once we got into
Speaker 3: this series as the matchup, I kind of team ran
Speaker 3: around to it based on the fact that last year
Speaker 3: I thought the Lakers kind of let go of the
Speaker 3: rope because it was like, hey, guys, we made it
Speaker 3: to the Western Conference finals. Like you know, a round
Speaker 3: of applause. We still had a successful year. There's no
Speaker 3: version of this that's not a disaster if they lose, right,
Speaker 3: which I think makes it so that you are more
Speaker 3: likely to get a more desperate, more engaged effort in
Speaker 3: this first round series. And honestly, that first quarter and
Speaker 3: a half was the best the Lakers have looked against
Speaker 3: the Nuggets in two years plus.
Speaker 1: And one of the only road teams that came in
Speaker 1: with more energy than the home team all weekend. I
Speaker 1: thought the Lakers playing a brilliant first guy, I was
Speaker 1: as good as they can play.
Speaker 3: Other than absolutely yeah, and I do think that. For instance,
Speaker 3: like one of the big swing factors last night was Ruey,
Speaker 3: Austin and DLO got badly outplayed by Aaron Gordon, Michael
Speaker 3: Porter Junior and KCP. As a matter of fact, they
Speaker 3: out rebounded just those three out rebounded the other three
Speaker 3: twenty one to ten. So like a disaster on the glass,
Speaker 3: which you could just tell from reading from watching the game, right,
Speaker 3: But like there will be games in this series where
Speaker 3: that swings more towards the lakers favor, and if Lebron
Speaker 3: and ad also play well. I think they'll get a
Speaker 3: win or two. I think this is going five or
Speaker 3: six games, But I obviously would be absolutely stunned it
Speaker 3: if Denver didn't win. But going into the offseason, like,
Speaker 3: honestly like it will look appealing for Lebron to kind
Speaker 3: of examine the landscape of the league. I just don't
Speaker 3: think he'll leave unless it is a slam dunk home run,
Speaker 3: big market, clear chance to win the title, like obvious
Speaker 3: type of move, like something like to the Knicks or
Speaker 3: to the seventy six ers or something along those lines.
Speaker 3: If something like that were to materialize, I could see
Speaker 3: him doing that. The problem is is, like Steph hasn't
Speaker 3: played very well over the tail end of the season's
Speaker 3: final twenty two games or so. He's been kind of
Speaker 3: a shell of himself. And I think, honestly, the idea
Speaker 3: of him jumping up to Golden State, I don't necessarily
Speaker 3: think that improves his championship odds all that much, and
Speaker 3: so I don't think he'll for that.
Speaker 4: But if they lose, let's say.
Speaker 3: They do get swept, I think it's a high probability
Speaker 3: that he starts to kind of examine his landscape, because
Speaker 3: here's the thing, Colin Lebron's playing super well. It's one
Speaker 3: of the most underdiscussed things in the league right now.
Speaker 3: In the final to his final twenty two games of
Speaker 3: the season, so basically everything after the All Star Break,
Speaker 3: he was the only guy in the league to average
Speaker 3: at least twenty seven on at least fifty percent from
Speaker 3: the field and at least forty percent from three. He
Speaker 3: averaged twenty eight points eight rebounds in tennisis on fifty
Speaker 3: eight percent from the field and forty five percent from three.
Speaker 3: They were great when he was on the floor and
Speaker 3: got blitzed when he was off. I said this on
Speaker 3: my show the other day the other day, and I
Speaker 3: believe it. Post All Star break, Luca and Jokich are
Speaker 3: the only two guys playing better.
Speaker 4: Than Lebron right now. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's playing at an insanely high level. So
Speaker 3: if I'm him as a competitor, I'm like, if I
Speaker 3: have no shot in this situation I have, I've got
Speaker 3: good basketball left me. I've got to give this a
Speaker 3: try somewhere else.
Speaker 1: No, I think it's I think that's a really good point.
Speaker 1: You know, I was thinking about this, I wrote some
Speaker 1: names down today. So I started watching the NBA in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two. It was it was Wilt, it was
Speaker 1: old Wilt with a headband, Jerry West, Gail Goodrich. I
Speaker 1: think Don Ford was on the Lakers, Bill Walton and
Speaker 1: the Blazers were good. The Sonics had those good teams
Speaker 1: seventy two seventy three. It was the seventies where there
Speaker 1: was no great team pre Magic, pre Bird, obviously pre
Speaker 1: Jordan and Leuel Sender. Kareem seventy one won the title
Speaker 1: with Milwaukee, and he was emerging as as as the
Speaker 1: great player. Right, there's very few players that they sort
Speaker 1: of break through a threshold. So Kareem was like created
Speaker 1: the first time in league history, the unstoppable shot. We'd
Speaker 1: had a lot of good players, nobody had an unstoppable,
Speaker 1: unblockable shot. I think Wilt blocked Kareem a couple times,
Speaker 1: but mostly nobody could touch it. And then there was
Speaker 1: Magic who broke through. We never had a six eight
Speaker 1: and a half point guard. Like it was just a
Speaker 1: match yep in hell for everybody, it's like that, that's
Speaker 1: not the way it works. Dave Cowens was a center
Speaker 1: in the seventies. He was six eight, Magic hit a
Speaker 1: finals guarded Caldwell Jones, He guarded a center and he
Speaker 1: breaks through and then there's shack. Nobody with that power
Speaker 1: ran the floor like that. It was a freight train.
Speaker 1: We'd never seen anything quite like that then. Obviously Michael
Speaker 1: Jordan was great, but we'd seen great athletic, dynamic wing players.
Speaker 1: We'd seen that. He was just the best ever. Steph's
Speaker 1: shooting range breaks through like transcends time. I think Lebron's
Speaker 1: Swiss army knife ability to do everything at an absolutely
Speaker 1: a level. I mean, Larry Bird couldn't defend like Lebron.
Speaker 1: He wasn't the athlete of Lebron. Lebron was literally everything.
Speaker 1: And then I watched Yokitchen. I'm like, I covered Sibonis
Speaker 1: in Portland. This guy is like Sibonis in his athletic prime.
Speaker 1: Because Sabonis could hit a three, not like this, could
Speaker 1: pass not like this. I look at Jokich and I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know what it is is that players used to
Speaker 1: come into this league with potentially the great ones Jason
Speaker 1: with one really great skill. They could shoot, they were
Speaker 1: ball handlers, they were they were rebounders and defenders. They
Speaker 1: weren't even Kareem. There's limitations on passing, there's living on
Speaker 1: ball handling. Lebron's one of those. Oh hell he does
Speaker 1: everything well. And jokicch I think, is taking it. He's
Speaker 1: the first big in my life, like a true center,
Speaker 1: a refrigerator wide center. What even defensively, he's not as
Speaker 1: bad as everybody says Lucas become a He's actually become
Speaker 1: a good defender. I watch Jokis and I'm like, is
Speaker 1: he Europe's Lebron where you're like, oh god, he's an
Speaker 1: A and everything A minus? Defensively, I just never seen
Speaker 1: a player like this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's not gonna It's gonna be tough for him
Speaker 3: to match the overall two way athlete, wrecking ball that
Speaker 3: Lebron was when he was in his prime. Obviously, because
Speaker 3: Lebron brought that transition element in that defensive element, like
Speaker 3: he could peel off and guard Derek Roseen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not gonna do that.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 3: Yeah, even back in twenty twenty, like he was the
Speaker 3: one who's shut down the Nuggets in that run by
Speaker 3: going on to Jamal Murray in that in that bubble run,
Speaker 3: like Lebron has a certain defensive versatility that kind of
Speaker 3: that brings it to another level. But Jokic, I actually
Speaker 3: believe right now is a better offensive player than Lebron
Speaker 3: ever was. And that's that's a really, really high bar
Speaker 3: that I think he's eclipsing. And it sounds crazy to say,
Speaker 3: but honestly the separating piece because I actually think they're
Speaker 3: on similar levels as a playmaker. I think Lebron over
Speaker 3: his career has been underrated as a playmaker, and Lebron
Speaker 3: was like Jokic in the sense that he just always
Speaker 3: made the right read and made you pay every single time.
Speaker 3: The difference is is not Lebron, not Kobe, not MJ,
Speaker 3: not even Steph. There's never been a guy in the
Speaker 3: modern NBA era that has a shot that he can
Speaker 3: consistently get to that's gonna go in two thirds at
Speaker 3: the time.
Speaker 4: Like even MJ.
Speaker 3: It's like he's gonna get to that pull up jumper,
Speaker 3: but it's about a fifty to fifty shot. Steph's gonna
Speaker 3: get to that pull up three, but it's about a
Speaker 3: forty sixty shot. Lebron is gonna try to bully his
Speaker 3: way close to the basket and play but he doesn't
Speaker 3: have anything in there that he's making two thirds of
Speaker 3: the time. And you mentioned that he's refrigerator wide, and
Speaker 3: that is the key because, like I know this vividly
Speaker 3: well because when I was in junior college, I had
Speaker 3: to play the power forward in center a lot, so
Speaker 3: I was consistently battling with bigger players than me. I
Speaker 3: was six six pretty strong. I was two hundred and
Speaker 3: twenty five pounds, but like so, I had to strength advantage.
Speaker 3: But most of the guys were towering three four inches
Speaker 3: over me, And the way I bothered them was by
Speaker 3: bothering their base. That's how you bother a taller player.
Speaker 3: You get up underneath them. You disrupt their energy transfer
Speaker 3: from the floor to the shot, and if you do that,
Speaker 3: usually they'll miss more frequently than they normally do against
Speaker 3: a player where they have a good bass. Yokich is
Speaker 3: impossible to disrupt his base, like you just can't do it.
Speaker 3: When he catches around the rim, there's guys shoving on him.
Speaker 3: They're trying to knock him off balance, but he like
Speaker 3: there was a late fadeaway. He hit over Lebron in
Speaker 3: the fourth quarter of or the late third quarter of
Speaker 3: that game last night where Lebron James a two hundred
Speaker 3: and seventy pounds is like trying to bump Jokic and
Speaker 3: he gets to a little turnaround over his right shoulder
Speaker 3: and he goes straight up and down completely unimpeded. And
Speaker 3: that's the problem, is like you can't actually get Jokic
Speaker 3: to bother before his release, and when he gets to
Speaker 3: his release, it's going in two thirds of the time.
Speaker 3: So there's just no easy answer for him. I know
Speaker 3: it's crazy, and I know it's heretical. In all these
Speaker 3: it seems like recency biased, But like I don't know
Speaker 3: about you, Colin, I can't remember a time in my
Speaker 3: time watching basketball. I can't remember a player that was
Speaker 3: this inevitable offensively. There's literally nothing you can do.
Speaker 1: Nothing, and if he doesn't get the shot, which is
Speaker 1: basically his choosing, somebody else gets the shot. I mean,
Speaker 1: the fact that you can put Porter in the corner
Speaker 1: is a great three point. The other thing, it's a
Speaker 1: perfect construct of a team. Gordon doesn't need plays to
Speaker 1: sign for him and can give you twelve KCP, who
Speaker 1: I didn't like at all seven years ago. I fall
Speaker 1: in love with him. I just love him. Now, he's
Speaker 1: just the constant, you know, he's just one of those
Speaker 1: players that he'll never be given his just due because
Speaker 1: he tends to be the fourth or fifth best player
Speaker 1: on a good team, the Bubble Laker team or this
Speaker 1: team Ice in his veins, fourth quarter big shots. He
Speaker 1: just doesn't care. There's a reason he keeps playing on
Speaker 1: winning teams. He hits a lot of big shots. So
Speaker 1: the construct of the team, Jokic, I think the word
Speaker 1: you used, inevitable is perfect. So it's twenty twenty four,
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Speaker 1: For more information, go to for Thepeople dot com, slash Colin,
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Speaker 1: So I want to talk about the Sun's Minnesota. So
Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting if we tend to give basketball
Speaker 1: players a little bit of a pass. So you know,
Speaker 1: in baseball there's the five tool player term. You know,
Speaker 1: Barry Bonds could hit Ron Steele, you know everything defend.
Speaker 1: And in football, we like our quarterbacks. You really get
Speaker 1: penalized Jared Goff, he's not mobile, right, not Super Bowls.
Speaker 1: So we like our quarterbacks and our baseball players to
Speaker 1: have multiple tools. And I'm watching Kevin Durant and I'm
Speaker 1: sitting there and I'm like, and I understand scoring seventy
Speaker 1: five percent of the game. Defense is twenty five percent.
Speaker 1: But he's not a big assist guy. He's a willing defender,
Speaker 1: not usually a great defender. It's not a big rebound guy.
Speaker 1: He is a great get a bucket guy, but he
Speaker 1: doesn't want to be a leader, you know. And I'm
Speaker 1: watching that series and Minnesota is pushing Phoenix all over
Speaker 1: the floor. And at no time Lebron in his prime
Speaker 1: or out of it, what it's set timeout, he'd go
Speaker 1: to the huddle. He would call out guys. D Wade
Speaker 1: would do that. A lot of the great players in
Speaker 1: the league really lead Steph cree Lean into Draymond Green's
Speaker 1: not even he is a great player, but Draymond will
Speaker 1: call you out. And I'm watching him and I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is just a bad two and a half hours
Speaker 1: of effort. This is an awful effort. They're being pushed
Speaker 1: all over the floor. Aunt Edwards has taken over the game.
Speaker 1: Dynamic player, but I wonder sometimes with KD. You know,
Speaker 1: he's a wanderer. When he left Golden State, I made
Speaker 1: the argument, I said, if Mahomes left the Chiefs and
Speaker 1: Andy Reid for the Jets, we crush him. We're like,
Speaker 1: are you out of your mind? He went with Kyrie
Speaker 1: and We're like, well, you know, he's got a different personality.
Speaker 1: He left the Warriors, suck it up, get along with Draymon,
Speaker 1: And I watched and I thought, do we give Kad
Speaker 1: a pass? Because in a sport that is very much artistry.
Speaker 1: He is one of the great shot makers of my life.
Speaker 1: But I want more from him. I watched that game
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you have to get physical. I want
Speaker 1: more from you here than twenty seven points which I
Speaker 1: get every night from you. Am I being too harsh
Speaker 1: or is any of this rings somewhat true?
Speaker 3: I think it's the reality of Kadi's personality in the
Speaker 3: sense that, like, I think Kadi loves basketball and I
Speaker 3: don't think he gives a shit about what we think.
Speaker 4: He should be.
Speaker 3: And what I mean by that is like, like, for instance,
Speaker 3: when he went to the Warriors, that move is a
Speaker 3: very clear demonstration he saw all of this obvious backlash
Speaker 3: that was going to be there, but in the middle
Speaker 3: of it, he saw, but hey, playing basketball Steph Curry
Speaker 3: might be a lot of fun, you know, and like
Speaker 3: he might enjoy playing in a really good, smart basketball system.
Speaker 3: That's what he saw. That's what he targeted and he
Speaker 3: went there. Now it went south because of a lot
Speaker 3: of different things while he was there. But I think, honestly,
Speaker 3: basketball just kind of determines most of it his decision makings,
Speaker 3: even when it comes down to leadership. And Kevin Durant
Speaker 3: has said this on Twitter before, but like he doesn't
Speaker 3: necessarily view leadership as like something that you say to
Speaker 3: people or that you're very boisterous and visible doing. He's
Speaker 3: very much a lead by example guy, and honestly, like
Speaker 3: he's got an opportunity here in this series because he's
Speaker 3: got the best capability reversing the trend of this series.
Speaker 3: What happened in that that game was what's happened to
Speaker 3: Phoenix a bunch this year is sometimes they get punched
Speaker 3: in the mouth in a physical game and they wilt.
Speaker 3: We talked about this early the last time we really
Speaker 3: did show Yeah, oh yeah. And there's a separate conversation
Speaker 3: we could have about how like this the game is
Speaker 3: getting super physical and like teams like Minnesota are benefiting
Speaker 3: from it, right, like teams like the Clippers are benefiting
Speaker 3: from teams like the Knicks. Like it's actually playing into
Speaker 3: the strength of the more physically minded teams. But one
Speaker 3: of the issues is the different than what they did
Speaker 3: in their last regular season matchup, they put ant on
Speaker 3: KD in the regular season matchup, and they put Jade
Speaker 3: McDaniels on Devin Booker. This time they move Aunt over
Speaker 3: to Bradley Beal and so KD had Carl Towns on
Speaker 3: him and to your point, thirty one points, super efficient,
Speaker 3: eleven for seventeen. But the Sun's offense was terrible in
Speaker 3: that entire game. And the main thing that he can
Speaker 3: do to turn that around, and again it's it's less
Speaker 3: about him barking at people and yelling. It's about him
Speaker 3: in terms of his approach. He needs to focus on
Speaker 3: Kat as an entry point to get the defense and
Speaker 3: rotation so that they can play more team basketball. That game,
Speaker 3: they had assists on fewer than half of their made
Speaker 3: field goals. That team has been good post deadline because
Speaker 3: they've been getting assists on sixty six percent of their
Speaker 3: made field goals post deadline. They look good when they're
Speaker 3: driving and kicking and playing for each other. And when
Speaker 3: you have the three star build, if you play your turn,
Speaker 3: my turn, it's diminishing returns and you don't benefit from
Speaker 3: the of all the talent when you play for each other.
Speaker 3: And now Devin Booker and Bradley Beal and Kevin Durant
Speaker 3: are attacking closeouts. That's when you have the force multiplier
Speaker 3: element of having all of those stars together. And so
Speaker 3: what I want to see KD do is, yes, help
Speaker 3: set the tone physically, that's going to be something they
Speaker 3: all have to do. But I think he needs to
Speaker 3: embrace that Carl Towns matchup as an opportunity to beat
Speaker 3: him off the dribble and be a playmaker, because if
Speaker 3: he does, I think that'll loosen things up for the Suns.
Speaker 3: But again, like I think you've seen enough from Katie
Speaker 3: over the last few years that he didn't really care
Speaker 3: what we think about him.
Speaker 1: He doesn't. I just yeah, it was just it was
Speaker 1: just such a weak effort and it was just it
Speaker 1: never got course corrected. It was just this is just
Speaker 1: not going to be our game. And is the you know,
Speaker 1: even the Mavericks made a run against the Clippers, and
Speaker 1: I want to pivot to that one. I mean, it
Speaker 1: was they had an awful first half and it was basically,
Speaker 1: I mean, who's their third best player, PJ Washington? It
Speaker 1: was Kyrie and Doncic and that's kind of their offense.
Speaker 1: And and so again, you you I think the NBA
Speaker 1: you used to. We always used to talk about tandems.
Speaker 1: But I do think you have to have really high
Speaker 1: end third players. I mean, Jesus is is KCP the
Speaker 1: fifth best Nugget. That's a really good fifth player. Derek
Speaker 1: White is your fifth best Celtic. That's a really good
Speaker 1: NBA player. Wa PJ. Washington is your third best player.
Speaker 1: He's about a twelve thirteen point a game gay, not
Speaker 1: a bad player at all. Probably should be your fourth
Speaker 1: or fifth if he's a third. And I'm just I'm
Speaker 1: throwing it out there as a guy, I think kind
Speaker 1: of as a you know, thirteen points a game. But
Speaker 1: it was interesting. So teams did well. Older teams tended
Speaker 1: to do well, the Lakers, notwithstanding, who had a very
Speaker 1: very good road first quarter. But as I watched the
Speaker 1: Clippers just take it to them again, I noticed the
Speaker 1: same thing Suns, te Wolves, Clippers, more physical Clippers in
Speaker 1: the paint. And I was wondering this in a regular
Speaker 1: season with diminishing returns. That is largely the Milwaukee Bucks
Speaker 1: social team today. It's like, hey, the part of the
Speaker 1: year that nobody cares about is over.
Speaker 4: That's the team.
Speaker 1: So these road teams, who you know, they haven't played
Speaker 1: a lot of intense basketball, go on the road, home
Speaker 1: playoff game number one, crowds into it, national TV games,
Speaker 1: and outside of the Lakers, I felt like I watched
Speaker 1: a lot of road teams. They were engulfed. They just
Speaker 1: weren't ready to play. So a home team, they come
Speaker 1: off this you know, lais ferret regular season, but they
Speaker 1: are the crowd is jet fuel. You know, Milwaukee out
Speaker 1: and the crowd's on fire. It's national TV. They don't
Speaker 1: get on national TV, and they just bring a ton
Speaker 1: of energy. Indiana's young, you know, you're kind of the
Speaker 1: regular season as a less of a pulse. But that
Speaker 1: was kind of my takeaway on Dallas and the Clippers.
Speaker 1: It was just like home team, a lot of energy,
Speaker 1: super physical, old guys, a lot of pride, and Dallas
Speaker 1: just wasn't quite ready to play. Is that fair?
Speaker 4: One hundred percent agree.
Speaker 3: I did a little instant reaction to that on my
Speaker 3: channel earlier, and that was what I led with, is
Speaker 3: that Dallas just didn't really seem ready. I thought you
Speaker 3: could tell. The very first possession from both teams was
Speaker 3: the dead giveaway. First Mavericks offensive possession, Luca dribbles around
Speaker 3: on the perimeter, works through two switches and takes a
Speaker 3: step back three. The Clippers get a rebound run out
Speaker 3: the other way. On the other end, James hard and
Speaker 3: ball screen comes screaming downhill, kick out to Paul George.
Speaker 3: He misses the three, but Kyrie Irving just is standing
Speaker 3: in the corner and Terrence Man just sprints right by him,
Speaker 3: grabs the offensive rebound, kicks out to a mere Coffee
Speaker 3: at the top of the key, and he hits a three,
Speaker 3: And you're like, whoa, Like, It's just it's like going
Speaker 3: from chill mode to a blender on the opposite side
Speaker 3: of the It's crazy the difference that it makes. And
Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, like, I think that also kind of
Speaker 3: plays into what we were talking about earlier with physicality,
Speaker 3: as the league has allowed more physicality and defenses have
Speaker 3: been given more power. Yeah, the home teams that are
Speaker 3: feeding off of that are benefiting from it. I think
Speaker 3: the athleticism helps as well. And I think, honestly, experience
Speaker 3: helps a certain amount. I thought the Pacers game in particular. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 3: the Pacers are the third most efficient jump shooting team
Speaker 3: in the league according to Synergy, and the Bucks allow
Speaker 3: the fifth most jump shot attempts in the league perc Entergy.
Speaker 3: That should be a matchup that favors Indiana at one point.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like they couldn't make anything because they're all nerved
Speaker 3: up in there, you know. And like one of the
Speaker 3: other things too, is in a super physical environment, guess
Speaker 3: what jump shots are really hard to make? Like that's
Speaker 3: that's kind of like just the reality of that situation.
Speaker 3: But you know, as far as the Mavericks Clippers game goes,
Speaker 3: this is the real story there, and I think this
Speaker 3: is gonna be an issue that the MAVs are gonna
Speaker 3: have to deal with. They every single time down the
Speaker 3: floor brought Luka Doncic, got him switched on to James
Speaker 3: Harden or Paul George and attacked him every single time.
Speaker 3: It was crazy. Like now, tylu is famous for this,
Speaker 3: and I've seen this personally as a Lakers fan, as
Speaker 3: he every single time we play the Clippers. It's like,
Speaker 3: attack Austin Reeves, attack Austinariess, attack Austinaries, like that's what
Speaker 3: they do.
Speaker 4: Tylu Is.
Speaker 3: Like tylu is like one of my favorite coaches in
Speaker 3: the league because he kind of has a different approach
Speaker 3: than some of the more you know, super fancy schematic coaches.
Speaker 3: He's very much like a We're a matchup attacking team.
Speaker 3: That's what our roster is. We have a bunch of
Speaker 3: guys who can attack matchups. So we're gonna pick on
Speaker 3: your weakest link every single time down the floor. And
Speaker 3: literally it was like he found out early. It's like, oh,
Speaker 3: gafferd can't guard Zubach. Let's just post him up every
Speaker 3: single time until they take him out of the game.
Speaker 3: They took Gafford out with like eight and a half
Speaker 3: minutes left in the first quarter because Zubach scored on
Speaker 3: him three consecutive times in the post. It's like, okay,
Speaker 3: now we're going after Luca. And they started just attacking
Speaker 3: Luca and that's how James Harden got going. He hit
Speaker 3: three buckets in a row on Luca. Then he got
Speaker 3: in a rhythm and then he started hitting the tougher shots.
Speaker 3: Paul George started attacking him. Like the real issue there
Speaker 3: is like Luca during the regular season can kind of
Speaker 3: float through, but he's gonna have to find a way
Speaker 3: to counter that. There's an easy schematic counter. They need
Speaker 3: to have Luca Hedge in recover. We won't get into it,
Speaker 3: but it's a schematic counter. They get you to protect
Speaker 3: to Luca in that situation. But Luca's gonna have to
Speaker 3: embrace that defensive responsibility because the Clippers will not stop
Speaker 3: going at him in this series.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you know, the Clippers are interesting sometimes.
Speaker 1: You know, we have questions about Kawhi. I never questioned Tylu.
Speaker 1: I love Paul George, but there's a lot of dudes here.
Speaker 1: I mean, at his best, Westbrook off the bench, Harden,
Speaker 1: Teror's Man, Zubac, Kawhi, Paul George, Like, let's not kid
Speaker 1: ourselves here. It's one of the best rosters in the league.
Speaker 1: There's really good players. They have size, they have experience.
Speaker 1: Now it's a lot of odd players, animatic players like
Speaker 1: Harden and Rush in the postseason, Kawhi, Leonard's like non verbal.
Speaker 1: It's an odd roster. But if you start stacking up
Speaker 1: zero to seven, you don't get to Westbrook at six
Speaker 1: and seven very much. In the NBA, Like again, Dallas's
Speaker 1: third best players arguably PJ. Washington, good player. I'm not
Speaker 1: knocking a nice player. Kentucky kid, really nice player, I
Speaker 1: think Kentucky. But it's like Okay, you start, you start going,
Speaker 1: Paul George is your third best, Like Paul's really really easy,
Speaker 1: you know, seven, eight time All Star whatever he is.
Speaker 1: So as I watched that series, I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: last year I bought another Clippers hard and I just
Speaker 1: went it was a facial. I really bought into him.
Speaker 1: But they hadn't played a lot together. It was weird.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I have a quick follow up Colin on the on
Speaker 3: the the MAVs. When are we going to have a
Speaker 3: conversation about the I have a couple of stars and
Speaker 3: then a bunch of specialists because that was literally what
Speaker 3: Houston was with Chris Paul and James Harden and it
Speaker 3: had a certain ceiling. Oh now we're seeing seeing it
Speaker 3: with no Kyrie and Luca where it's like it's like
Speaker 3: the ball, like you can literally see Kleeba like catch
Speaker 3: on the wing and be like am I supposed to
Speaker 3: shoot it?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: And and it's one of those things where I think,
Speaker 3: I think, if Dallas does lose this series, it's time
Speaker 3: to start having a conversation about the like the specialist
Speaker 3: in this super athletic, spread out speed based game, you've
Speaker 3: got to have five guys who can play offense. And
Speaker 3: that's what Denver has. Yeah, Denver has five guys that
Speaker 3: could play offense. Golden State had five guys that could
Speaker 3: play offense. Like that, to me is a really interesting
Speaker 3: kind of like subplot here is they the Clippers just
Speaker 3: got the ball out of Kyrie and Luca's hands and
Speaker 3: those other guys couldn't score well.
Speaker 1: And you know, Jason, this is why it's so important.
Speaker 1: This is why I always drag mellow. If you don't defend,
Speaker 1: then I am forced to put people on the floor
Speaker 1: that are excellent defenders and are limited. So Kyrie doesn't defend.
Speaker 1: Luca's better at defending, but you're forcing me now to
Speaker 1: acquire people to protect you. The greatness of the Warriors
Speaker 1: was Draymond was a great defender, but a catalyst offensively.
Speaker 1: And Clay was a great defender, but the best cat
Speaker 1: and shoot guy, catch and shoot guy maybe a decade.
Speaker 1: So they they're guys that were great defensively where you
Speaker 1: had to protect staff, you didn't have a lot of size.
Speaker 1: They ended up being really valuable offensive pieces. And by
Speaker 1: the way, that's rare. You know, if Ben Wallace could
Speaker 1: have shot a three, he would have been, you know,
Speaker 1: an all time player instead of twelve a game. He's
Speaker 1: twenty two. So it's hard to find those guys. But
Speaker 1: I find that when you have elite offensive players. That's
Speaker 1: why the pairing of Luca and Kyrie is a bit problematic. Oh,
Speaker 1: I've got to get a rim protector. Well, he can't score. Well,
Speaker 1: they still have to have it, and you know that's
Speaker 1: It's one of the reasons I do think the Lakers
Speaker 1: have a lot of promise because Reeves, d lo lebron
Speaker 1: Ad they can all score, right, so you can you
Speaker 1: can and it does matter. I think I feel like
Speaker 1: the Mads are lobsided. It's almost like when Tennessee had
Speaker 1: Ryan Tannehill, like, we're gonna have to like be a
Speaker 1: little lobsided on the run. We've got a ceiling at quarterback.
Speaker 1: They ended up as a number one seed one year.
Speaker 1: But when they got to the playoffs and you play
Speaker 1: better teams and better coaches, they expose it. And so
Speaker 1: I think what the Clippers did. They exposed the Maverick said,
Speaker 1: you've got two guys on the floor, they're just not
Speaker 1: offensive players. But if you don't have them, Kyrie is
Speaker 1: not even accountable sometimes defensively. So I think it's that's
Speaker 1: the downside to having highly offensive players. Most great offensive
Speaker 1: players do commit in their prime years. They get tired
Speaker 1: of defense or worn down, but they commit to it,
Speaker 1: for like Kobe, for an eight to nine year period
Speaker 1: and then at the beginning you're not very good. At
Speaker 1: the end, you're not very good. But I felt like
Speaker 1: watching Dallas it's they're a little obsided.
Speaker 3: Mike Malone has said before, specialists can't play in the playoffs.
Speaker 3: It's it's been something that like, Okay, they're the easiest
Speaker 3: guys to target in various ways. And it's interesting because PJ.
Speaker 3: Washington and Maxi Kaliba together in the front court at
Speaker 3: the four or five has been my favorite Dallas look
Speaker 3: since the trade deadline. I actually like it when they
Speaker 3: go no center. They're more athletic, they have more ability
Speaker 3: to fly around in rotation. But to your point, that
Speaker 3: ended up being a major offensive issue in this particular
Speaker 3: matchup today, And like PJ. Washington, I agree with you.
Speaker 3: I think he's probably their third best player, and he
Speaker 3: has more offensive pop in general, but he's like a
Speaker 3: low thirties catch and shoot guy, so generally speaking, as
Speaker 3: long as you can kind of shade the floor in
Speaker 3: a certain way to where he's catching on the perimeter,
Speaker 3: you can close out short and you have a better
Speaker 3: chance to contain that and it and like essentially, like
Speaker 3: they're actually the opposite of the Suns in the sense
Speaker 3: that like the Sons were like, no, we're gonna have
Speaker 3: really good off ball offensive talent, and they have that.
Speaker 3: So Minnesota's like, Okay, we're just gonna stay home off
Speaker 3: the ball and make Kevin Durant and Devin Booker and
Speaker 3: Bradley Beale play one on one and two on two
Speaker 3: in ball screens and make them make tough shots over
Speaker 3: our elite perimeter defenders. And Rudy Gobert the Clippers are, like,
Speaker 3: the MAVs are the exact opposite. They don't have great
Speaker 3: off ball offensive talent, but they've got good defenders in
Speaker 3: their off ball players. So the Clippers are like, We're
Speaker 3: just gonna throw the kitchen sink at Luca and Kyrie
Speaker 3: and make these guys score. And so what you're seeing
Speaker 3: is the problem with both because the Suns can't contend
Speaker 3: physically in a lot of certain matchups in the MAVs
Speaker 3: can't score against these certain types of matchups, and so
Speaker 3: it's it's kind of just an interesting conversation about team building,
Speaker 3: Like you need, like Aaron Gordon's an interesting example. Aaron
Speaker 3: Gordon is a Swiss army knife in his own way. Yeah,
Speaker 3: he can attack mismatches in the post. He can guard
Speaker 3: Lebron James, Jimmy Butler, Kevin Durant, those guys credibly, But
Speaker 3: at the same time, he's like a really functional piece
Speaker 3: in their five out offense. So like he's a super
Speaker 3: versatile basketball player, but if you dive into it, you're like,
Speaker 3: he's a if he jumps shooter, he's not the most
Speaker 3: efficient guy in this spot, blah.
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: Like but it's like, because his specific skill set kind
Speaker 3: of fits into what Denver needs to do super valuable
Speaker 3: And so I think it's just an interesting conversation about
Speaker 3: team buildings well.
Speaker 1: And what's interesting with him as much like Draymon, you
Speaker 1: don't have to create offense for Draymon, he sort of
Speaker 1: creates his own rebounding screening With Gordon, you wouldn't want
Speaker 1: another shooter KCP shoots Murray, shoot Porter from the corner,
Speaker 1: shoot Jokic. I don't need to design more plays. I
Speaker 1: don't need that. He's a perfect player. When you had
Speaker 1: Steph Clan Durant, I don't need another guy that have
Speaker 1: to dial up shots to Draymond will give me seven,
Speaker 1: thirteen rebounds, eleven assists. The great teams all have that
Speaker 1: guy like he'll give you eleven. But he's totally Rodman
Speaker 1: with the Bulls, totally prideful in being the tough guy,
Speaker 1: the bouncher at the bar, the ugly player, the on
Speaker 1: the floor guy, and takes incredible pride in it. And
Speaker 1: I think that's Gordon. So I want to go, let's
Speaker 1: finish with this Nicks sixers, So I picked this is
Speaker 1: just a big mistake. I think the Knicks essentially are
Speaker 1: a one man offense and not even a highly functional offense.
Speaker 1: If Jalen Brunson's not in, They're like watching Villanova. The
Speaker 1: margins are tight, they're not explosive offensively, but they play
Speaker 1: good defense. They give you great effort. So my take
Speaker 1: on the Knicks coming into the playoffs was because of Thibodeau.
Speaker 1: Their effort in the regular season is so strong. Seventy
Speaker 1: five of the eighty two games they win games on
Speaker 1: effort because in the regular season, I mean, you're resting players.
Speaker 1: Guys don't give you that. The older teams, the Milwaukee's,
Speaker 1: they're nights. Milwaukee just didn't you show up to play
Speaker 1: New York Alhay shows up to play. You get to
Speaker 1: the playoffs, everybody's efforts high. But I'm watching that game
Speaker 1: and there's about seven minutes left, and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think Philadelphia's got more good players. I mean, if
Speaker 1: you have mb and Maxie have two stars, I can
Speaker 1: get a jumper from Buddy Healed. I've got, but toom
Speaker 1: I've got, you know, Tobias Harris. And I look at
Speaker 1: the Knicks and I'm like, they really are Villanova. I'm like,
Speaker 1: they have a self belief, They defend on every possession.
Speaker 1: They have guys that could finish with nine points. They
Speaker 1: all come at the right time, and I think in
Speaker 1: the East that's good enough. In the West it would
Speaker 1: get flushed out. But I watched the Knicks and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I just keep doubting them. I love Brunson, but I'm like,
Speaker 1: I mean, they got to have Julius Randall, they got
Speaker 1: to have nineteen points. What am I supposed to make
Speaker 1: of the Knicks. I mean that's supposed to beat Now.
Speaker 1: Some of it could just be you know, Knicks energy
Speaker 1: the garden. But I watched that, I'm like, I can
Speaker 1: keep banging on Philadelphia. Philadelphia's got good players. There are
Speaker 1: a lot of good players here.
Speaker 4: What is it?
Speaker 1: What's the Knicks magic? Analytically? What is the data say
Speaker 1: their magic is?
Speaker 3: So first of all, like I was in the same
Speaker 3: camp as you coming into this series. I actually sat
Speaker 3: down for my film session and going like, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: pick the Knicks today, And then I started watching the film.
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, Phillies are really good.
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, Like they have a lot of really
Speaker 3: good players, and I'm like I started to think, like
Speaker 3: they're gonna really be able to throw the kitchen sink
Speaker 3: at Brunson. I think this is gonna be a half
Speaker 3: court mismatch. So I ended up picking the Sixers. And
Speaker 3: for the record, like about one in four times a
Speaker 3: team loses Game one and comes back to win the series.
Speaker 3: So there will be probably two teams in this first
Speaker 3: round who lost Game one but come back to win.
Speaker 3: Last year happened twice in the first round as well.
Speaker 3: The Warriors lost in Sacramento Game one, came back and
Speaker 3: won the series. The Sun's lost of the Clippers came
Speaker 3: back and won the series. So like it does happen,
Speaker 3: and this script might get flipped, but the dynamic was
Speaker 3: actually crazy how much the Knicks dominated this game in
Speaker 3: the margin. So here's some this is this stat is amazing.
Speaker 3: Colin the half court offensive rating, which means just half
Speaker 3: court possessions.
Speaker 4: Yeah, points per one hundred.
Speaker 3: Possessions, the Sixers had a ninety nine offensive rating in
Speaker 3: the half court against the Knicks. In that game, the
Speaker 3: Knicks had a seventy seven offensive rating, so they dominated
Speaker 3: the half court battle by twenty two points per one
Speaker 3: hundred possessions. That is like a complete and total outclassing.
Speaker 3: But the Knicks one, and here's why, in second chance
Speaker 3: points and in fast break points they won fifty three
Speaker 3: to nineteen. For fifty three to nineteen. Yeah, they absolutely
Speaker 3: bludgeoned them on the offensive glass and bludgeoned them in transition.
Speaker 3: So like the Sixers have a simple pathway here. Yeah,
Speaker 3: if you can, if you can keep up with the
Speaker 3: dirty work, you'll probably win. You have more skill in
Speaker 3: the half court. You saw Tyrese Maxi dicing them up
Speaker 3: in that third quarter.
Speaker 1: They got good shots.
Speaker 4: They got really good shots.
Speaker 3: Now, the one thing I will say as a counter
Speaker 3: to that, there was one little thing that kind of
Speaker 3: like stood out to me in that fourth quarter run.
Speaker 3: Mitchell Robinson might be able to guard Embiid like he
Speaker 3: did a pretty good job on him. And there's this
Speaker 3: thing that happens sometimes. It's so funny because I use
Speaker 3: this example on my show. Do you remember Lebron? Like
Speaker 3: Lebron would just run rough shot through the entire league
Speaker 3: and no one could guard him. But then like he'd
Speaker 3: run into like Andre Gudala or like roy or Kawhi Leonard,
Speaker 3: he'd run into like a random guy that could kind
Speaker 3: of match up with him physically, and then it would
Speaker 3: make Lebron work harder. And honestly, that was when you'd
Speaker 3: see the best of Lebron is when like it's not
Speaker 3: easy and he'd still find a way, right. And like
Speaker 3: we even see that sometimes with Jokic. It's like you
Speaker 3: watch him go up against Embiid and it's like, WHOA,
Speaker 3: Embiid's big enough to like kind of hang with him, right,
Speaker 3: and it makes things difficult. Mitchell Robinson has the unique
Speaker 3: ability to give em bead a little bit of space
Speaker 3: but also close the gap and contest. And so the
Speaker 3: one thing if I'm a Knicks fan, the one thing
Speaker 3: where I'm like, Okay, we got dominated in the half court.
Speaker 3: Maybe the Sixers can turn this around. The one thing
Speaker 3: I'm clinging to is what if Mitchell Robinson gives and
Speaker 3: be just a bad series, because then this could get
Speaker 3: ugly because Tyre Smax he had some trouble with Deuce
Speaker 3: McBride too. There he could kind of match it with
Speaker 3: him with his quickness. And so I think the Knicks
Speaker 3: have some ability to close that gap in the half
Speaker 3: court offense, but the Sixers have to close that gap
Speaker 3: in the margins or they're just going to get run
Speaker 3: out of this series.
Speaker 1: Trying to think of a historic comp to mb So.
Speaker 1: People have said Shack is a player, but Shack has
Speaker 1: such great postseason success almost universally in my life. The
Speaker 1: word you used earlier on Jokic was perfect inevitable. A
Speaker 1: dominant big in this league usually wins, and we're talking
Speaker 1: about one of the five most talented bigs I've probably
Speaker 1: ever seen. I mean, he does. He had a shot
Speaker 1: and beat had a shot against the Knicks. I'm not
Speaker 1: even there may have been an early whistle where he
Speaker 1: turned his body sideways, he threw it off the glass,
Speaker 1: and I was like, the hell was that? Who? It
Speaker 1: doesn't even look like it was just a it's a
Speaker 1: move that Dame would make. It was like, you're like,
Speaker 1: seven to two, you can't do that. But in the
Speaker 1: weaker Eastern Conference, it's just inexcusable. You've got to win
Speaker 1: a second series. I mean, the first series is against
Speaker 1: the dog, usually now the Knicks or no dog, but
Speaker 1: there is it. I wonder what the ball movement is
Speaker 1: when embiid is in, because I do feel there are
Speaker 1: times when it slows down a little use by the way,
Speaker 1: you saw this with Julius Randalls sometimes in the Knicks,
Speaker 1: like he's out, the ball moves sometimes with Bigs that
Speaker 1: by the way, no Joannis today with Milwaukee, the ball's moving,
Speaker 1: they're you know, Dame's controlling it. The tempo is better.
Speaker 1: I just if he loses to the Knicks, now, what
Speaker 1: do we say. I know he's great, but it's like
Speaker 1: if you're a great quarterback in the weaker conference, I
Speaker 1: gotta have some playoff wins. You know, you got to
Speaker 1: give me some of those. It'd be one thing if
Speaker 1: you're facing Mahomes and Josh Allen and Lamar in their prime.
Speaker 1: If you're facing the NFC guys, I need some do
Speaker 1: Wu's Matt Stafford gets a super Bowl. He's better than
Speaker 1: that division. I get that conference. I don't know where
Speaker 1: I land on Embiid. Yeah, I know he's talented, but
Speaker 1: he needs to win more in April and May. I'm
Speaker 1: just he does. How do you land historically with Embiid?
Speaker 3: Of course he does like he has to win. There's
Speaker 3: no question. I've seen things on Twitter like when he
Speaker 3: went down. There's this funny moment when he went down
Speaker 3: in that second quarter where like everyone was like, the
Speaker 3: guy is falling. It's like the NBA is responsible for
Speaker 3: these guys getting hurt. I'm like, no, this is just
Speaker 3: a flukey play. Like that's just everyone Everyone relax. Yeah,
Speaker 3: everyone relaxed for a second. But like, one of the
Speaker 3: things that happens is Embiid consistently gets to the postseason.
Speaker 3: Usually his jump shot falls apart, he starts turning the
Speaker 3: basketball over a ton in his offensive effectiveness craters, and
Speaker 3: every single year, the Embiid fans will be like he
Speaker 3: was hurt and they're not wrong. Like you go back,
Speaker 3: you go back. Last year he was dealing with a
Speaker 3: balky knee. What was it two years ago when he
Speaker 3: had the broken face on the Toronto the Flukey play
Speaker 3: at the end of the Toronto series. I think og
Speaker 3: and Andobi hit him with an elbow in the face
Speaker 3: and he really struggled. And this year he has the
Speaker 3: same excuse, right, Like he came back from a meniscus
Speaker 3: injury and clearly it's bothering him. I mean he left
Speaker 3: the game in the second quarter last night, so like,
Speaker 3: obviously he's having issues, right, But the bottom line is,
Speaker 3: at a certain point, if a guy gets to the
Speaker 3: postseason every year and it's hurt every year, you have
Speaker 3: to kind of bring that into the calculus. It's like
Speaker 3: with Kawhi, I vividly remember you and I sitting down
Speaker 3: going like, man, that was crazy.
Speaker 4: Kawhi.
Speaker 3: The last two playoff runs broke down in the middle
Speaker 3: of the playoff run. What if that happens again, And
Speaker 3: you know, Clippers fans will be like, well, you can't
Speaker 3: really plan on that, but here we are again, right,
Speaker 3: and Kawhi's not playing, So like, at a certain point, that's.
Speaker 4: Like part of the calculus with Kawhi Cool.
Speaker 3: You know, you can't put him in the top five
Speaker 3: of playoff players if his body can't hold up for
Speaker 3: a playoff run.
Speaker 4: And that's the thing.
Speaker 3: I one hundred percent agree that Embiid has this otherworldly potential.
Speaker 3: And there's a version of his story where at some
Speaker 3: point in the next couple of years he gets to
Speaker 3: the postseason, healthy, runs rough shot over everybody and gets
Speaker 3: crowned the best player in the world and gets a trophy.
Speaker 3: But what have we seen in the last few years
Speaker 3: to show that he can actually survive for playoff rounds,
Speaker 3: let around, let alone, you know, kind of thrive in
Speaker 3: that environment. And so at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: like I feel bad for him because I think a
Speaker 3: lot of it is just kind of he's a giant
Speaker 3: human and there's a certain kind of risk factor that
Speaker 3: comes along with that, and I don't want to blame
Speaker 3: him necessarily, But regardless of what the external circumstances are,
Speaker 3: the on court product hasn't been enough. Now, one thing
Speaker 3: I'll say, I was really impressed in how he played
Speaker 3: last night while he was on the floor against a
Speaker 3: really tough, physical New York Knicks team. But again, like
Speaker 3: we talked about with like Igudala and Kawhi, if Mitchell
Speaker 3: Robinson presents a challenge for him, he has to find
Speaker 3: a way to solve that puzzle. Why because the other
Speaker 3: great players found a way to solve that puzzle when
Speaker 3: they ran into it in the postseason.
Speaker 1: So, you know, it's interesting. Through the years, there's been
Speaker 1: a sense I got into this email discussion with Mark
Speaker 1: Cuban once that very few players really. I think we
Speaker 1: have this sense that in the NBA, lots of players
Speaker 1: move the ratings. Hell. The NBA put Jannis when he
Speaker 1: was the best player in the league four years ago
Speaker 1: on noon NBA TV playoff games, like the league was
Speaker 1: telling you, it's not moving the needle. A lot of
Speaker 1: centers don't move the needle. Shack did because some of
Speaker 1: that was just personality in the Lakers Brandon Kobe. But
Speaker 1: most centers don't move the needle. They don't play a dynamic, quick,
Speaker 1: twitchy game. It's fun. Derek Rose to me in Chicago, Oh, okay,
Speaker 1: the Bulls. You know there are certain players ant's great,
Speaker 1: but it's Minnesota. But I was watching the NIXT game
Speaker 1: and I thought to myself. We always talk about market
Speaker 1: size doesn't matter in the NBA because players can get
Speaker 1: rich everywhere. I don't deny that. But games in the
Speaker 1: Garden are different. They are just different. They just look different.
Speaker 1: And I'm watching that game and I'm seeing the celebrities
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I stayed on that game and I
Speaker 1: was like, it had juice. I'm sitting there and thinking,
Speaker 1: this is great television. It's like watching the football game
Speaker 1: Michigan Big House, Jason. It feels bigger than an Arizona
Speaker 1: Wildcat game. It just feels bigger. And I'm watching the
Speaker 1: Knicks and I'm like, boy, the league could really use
Speaker 1: Celtics Knicks. And I don't think Jalen Brunson's I think
Speaker 1: they need another star. But you know, there's been this
Speaker 1: sort of malaise and the regular season and people talking
Speaker 1: about ratings, and the NBA is fine, it's content, it's
Speaker 1: gonna do fine. It's more international, it's still great. The
Speaker 1: players have never been better. But I'm watching the Knicks
Speaker 1: and I'm like, they're incredibly likable because they play their
Speaker 1: ass off. They get everything out of every player. Brunson's
Speaker 1: a great story. It's New York it's the Guard and
Speaker 1: the fans are so starved they might as well have
Speaker 1: a ticker tape parade. After they won, the fans were
Speaker 1: going crazy out in the street, and I really did.
Speaker 1: I was watching it, Jason, and I thought, I've been
Speaker 1: in TV for twenty some years, and I'm like, this
Speaker 1: is great television. This is completely magnetic television. And I'm
Speaker 1: sorry if that game's in Charlotte, it doesn't feel like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, how did when I want that? I felt,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, this feels like a conference finals. This
Speaker 1: is what New York and the Garden are doing to
Speaker 1: this sport. That's what I felt.
Speaker 4: It was the best game yesterday.
Speaker 3: Yes, and like the way that the roof blew off
Speaker 3: those that place after those late Josh Hart, oh my god,
Speaker 3: which which felt like ten pointers when they went in.
Speaker 3: But that's that's extended my entire life. I remember, even
Speaker 3: just as a kid, being an NBA fan, like it
Speaker 3: was when Kobe went to Madison Square Garden, it was
Speaker 3: you dropped everything and you watched. When Lebron went to
Speaker 3: Madison Square Garden, you dropped everything and you watched. And
Speaker 3: so to watch them play meaningful basketball, and I don't
Speaker 3: even think the Knicks fans are aware yet that this
Speaker 3: is just the beginning. Like I think this is the
Speaker 3: beginning of a long era of really good Knicks basketball.
Speaker 3: We've talked about it before. I think they're really well
Speaker 3: positioned for a move this offseason. I I one hundred
Speaker 3: percent agree there was that that game. It was It
Speaker 3: was easily the most magnetic and entertaining game of the
Speaker 3: night yesterday. I actually have a follow up question, con
Speaker 3: I saw a report yesterday that the the talks have
Speaker 3: stalled out, the TV talks for the NBA with Turner
Speaker 3: and with Disney. What did you make of that?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, again, first of all, my you know
Speaker 1: some of this is anecdotal. So my kids love going
Speaker 1: to NBA games. I love going to NBA games. I've
Speaker 1: been to four this year, and so I go to
Speaker 1: more NBA games than any games. I think the product
Speaker 1: when you're in the arena is fantastic and fun. I
Speaker 1: hate load management, and I do think that's hurt the league.
Speaker 1: I think Adam Silver, I don't think David Stern would
Speaker 1: tolerate it. I think the fines would be levied and
Speaker 1: much and I think they were years ago, the late
Speaker 1: David Stern, So I do think there are some social issues.
Speaker 1: I think the load management's turned a lot of people off.
Speaker 1: The game is getting like baseball and hockey. It's very
Speaker 1: international now, so it's just harder to follow a guy
Speaker 1: if you don't. You know, he's in Lithuania instead of Duke.
Speaker 1: The reason I know Zion he played at Duke. He
Speaker 1: blew up a shoe at Duke, and so, you know,
Speaker 1: there's part of it is we're this is society is
Speaker 1: we're all distracted now. I mean our phone, my usage rate.
Speaker 1: I was on the phone during the NBA. I'm on
Speaker 1: my phone constantly right Like, my usage rate goes up
Speaker 1: at four hundred percent during the NBA playoffs. So we're distracted.
Speaker 1: So we don't follow the path and the journey of players.
Speaker 1: You do, you're an expert at it, but most people don't.
Speaker 1: So we like this. I watch a guy at Ohio
Speaker 1: State for three years, you're in Michigan. He's Microwavable. He
Speaker 1: goes to my Texans. I know who he is. I
Speaker 1: has in Jersey. I have an avisceral connection with him.
Speaker 1: In the NBA, increasingly the guys don't play college and
Speaker 1: so it's like Ugh and they go to bad teams
Speaker 1: at the top of the drafts. You don't see him
Speaker 1: for three years until they get into the playoffs. Wemby
Speaker 1: because he's uniquely historically transcendent. We talked about him. So
Speaker 1: I think executives look at this and they say to themselves,
Speaker 1: the players are telling us the regular season doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: The league by not handing out punitive action, is telling
Speaker 1: us the regular season doesn't matter. Am I paying nine
Speaker 1: billion for playoff games? Like, I'm not interested? And I
Speaker 1: think Fox don't for Fox or the Murdocks. But I
Speaker 1: do think people at our company have looked at baseball
Speaker 1: and they're like, we love the playoffs, but the one
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty two Braves Brewers or whatever, like, it's
Speaker 1: hard to get people interested. So in a distracted society
Speaker 1: where we're on our phones right long, regular season sports
Speaker 1: are dying. And so NFL's not urgency, World Cup's not
Speaker 1: every four years, Olympics aren't March madness, men and women aren't.
Speaker 1: College football isn't UFC, isn't baseball hockey, NBA regular seasons
Speaker 1: on television are just not dynamic. And these leagues, the NBA,
Speaker 1: the I mean I mean, we'll have some great series here.
Speaker 1: These first round series are going to be really good.
Speaker 1: NICK sixers is going to feel like a big series
Speaker 1: because Philly and New York are just they jump off
Speaker 1: the television. My takeaway is league send messages to networks,
Speaker 1: and the messages the regular season doesn't matter much, and
Speaker 1: I run Fox or ESPN or TNT. Okay, then let's
Speaker 1: have two packages. You know, I'll pay for the playoffs.
Speaker 1: I don't want the regular season, and so I think
Speaker 1: that's where that's where you know the NFL and I
Speaker 1: think March madness. It's like, well, I have to watch
Speaker 1: these games. These are all sudden death, you know, So
Speaker 1: what do I make of it? I make of it.
Speaker 1: The product's good, but the league is sending a message
Speaker 1: to the networks and it's come back to bite them
Speaker 1: in the ass, which is no load management. I've always
Speaker 1: felt the league should have about sixty games. The first
Speaker 1: round should be three games, the rest of the way
Speaker 1: should be five until the finals is seven. There's no urgency.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's just literally no urgency in these games.
Speaker 1: It's like, I watch it because I love the NBA.
Speaker 1: The NBA will get its money, but you have to
Speaker 1: be honest about this. The stuff that's working is all
Speaker 1: creating urgency. I mean, the quality of men's basketball in
Speaker 1: the NCAA now is awful, Jason. It's the actual quality play. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but the numbers were fantastic. So now women's basketball is
Speaker 1: much better today than twenty years ago. So the quality
Speaker 1: there is excellent. In Caitlin Clark story. But I think baseball,
Speaker 1: I mean, hey, have you heard about I mean, like
Speaker 1: Apple doesn't want part of the NBC and Apple are
Speaker 1: both unhappy with their baseball packages. Wow, Sunday Night Baseball.
Speaker 1: They want one hundred and forty million. Nobody wants to
Speaker 1: pay that. Fox would take it for forty million. We're
Speaker 1: not paying one hundred and forty million. So I think
Speaker 1: I think baseball, hockey, and basketball. I think you have
Speaker 1: to look in the mirror as owners. You've never been richer.
Speaker 1: It's the best place in the world to own any
Speaker 1: investment in the world is English Premier League teams or
Speaker 1: American sports teams. That's where the richest people have their money.
Speaker 1: EPL teams only go up and American sports teams mostly
Speaker 1: go up. I think you have to scale back the
Speaker 1: number of games you have to demand starters play. I
Speaker 1: think you have to have more urgent. I think what
Speaker 1: you have in the NBAG you have a two and
Speaker 1: a half month playoff, it should be a month and
Speaker 1: shorten the season. Now you say, the players will say, well,
Speaker 1: we won't make as much money. If everybody got ten
Speaker 1: percent less, you'd be fine. If Lebron could play fifteen
Speaker 1: less games a year, he'd be fine with less. Most
Speaker 1: players would be. But I think it's a reality of
Speaker 1: what's happening, the distraction, the fragmentation. You cannot ask people
Speaker 1: to sit through these long hockey Baseball NBA regular seasons,
Speaker 1: especially when the players don't seem that driven by it.
Speaker 1: That's my take, and I love the league.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you and I had a debate. It
Speaker 3: was a couple months ago, but we were talking about
Speaker 3: the difference between the NFL and how the NFL has
Speaker 3: been encroaching on their territory and what they're doing like
Speaker 3: three Wednesday Christmas games this year, right, So, like in
Speaker 3: one of the counterpoints I made to you is like,
Speaker 3: I don't really see the league as the NBA is
Speaker 3: even on the same footing as the NFL, because I
Speaker 3: view the NFL as an urgency sport, and I view
Speaker 3: the NBA as an inventory sport.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, the NBA has actually.
Speaker 3: Leaned more and more into inventory. It's like, here is
Speaker 3: an in season tournament, here is a play in turn.
Speaker 3: They just expanded the first round of the playoffs from
Speaker 3: five to seven games, what like twenty years ago or
Speaker 3: whatever it was that they did, so like they've done
Speaker 3: nothing but ad inventory. And while while total revenue has
Speaker 3: gone up, I think the focused kind of desire surrounding
Speaker 3: the NBA regular season is less. And to your point, like,
Speaker 3: I've always been a big believer in shortening the regular
Speaker 3: season because I think if you could get it down
Speaker 3: to three games a week in just a guaranteed two
Speaker 3: days off every single week in a row somewhere in
Speaker 3: there for the older guys, I think you just have
Speaker 3: better player participation in general, not to mention the increased
Speaker 3: urgencies surrounding the games. And what bothers me about it
Speaker 3: is why can't you view the in season tournament and
Speaker 3: the play in tournament as the revenue drivers to make
Speaker 3: up for lost revenue in a shortened season. And if
Speaker 3: you did shorten the season, I don't I think you'd
Speaker 3: see an initial drop in revenue.
Speaker 4: But I think in the big.
Speaker 3: Picture, as there's more star participation in roughly twenty percent
Speaker 3: additional urgency by dropping twenty percent of the game games,
Speaker 3: I think you will see in the big picture and
Speaker 3: increased value in the regular season package. But nie hundred
Speaker 3: percent agree with you in the sense that, like, how
Speaker 3: could you expect of all the things that the NBA
Speaker 3: provides between between gambling, between highlights, between the playoffs, between
Speaker 3: the end season, tournament, playing tournament. Summer League is a
Speaker 3: huge deal every year ago out there. I'm amazed by
Speaker 3: the event that Summer League is. Wait till you see
Speaker 3: what this Team USA thing is is going to be
Speaker 3: like in Vegas. Like, all of that is doing great,
Speaker 3: but the regular season itself is dipping further and further
Speaker 3: down the food chain, and that they do need to
Speaker 3: put more attention in that direction.
Speaker 4: Nine hundred percent agreecause.
Speaker 1: Also the international participation now is up, They're more skilled,
Speaker 1: they're dominating the MVP. I got no problem with it.
Speaker 1: I've never seen players as good as Wemby and Jokic,
Speaker 1: but it is harder to follow, and in a distracted world,
Speaker 1: it's really hard to follow. And I'm a sportscaster. But
Speaker 1: I mean it's like they do jokes on TNT that
Speaker 1: Shack and Barkley don't know certain players. Like That's that
Speaker 1: gives you a sense of Yeah, they're sending messages constantly
Speaker 1: that half these games don't matter. Well, that's not great messaging.
Speaker 4: Big Colin.
Speaker 3: I'm a complete basketball nut job. I coach it on
Speaker 3: a volunteer level here in town. I play literally six
Speaker 3: days a week. I get bored in the NBA regular season.
Speaker 3: I do what every other person in the media does,
Speaker 3: and like have to find reasons to be enthusiastic about
Speaker 3: we'll recover. Well, you're in January. It's a slog, man,
Speaker 3: It's literally a slog. Yeah, and again, I'm a nut
Speaker 3: job when it comes to this stuff.
Speaker 1: I've argued for years that I would start the NBA
Speaker 1: on the Wednesday after Thanksgiving, so I would start it
Speaker 1: a month later because I think you can't compete with football.
Speaker 1: But after Thanksgiving, people get this heaping helping of football,
Speaker 1: and you talk about it on Monday on the sport
Speaker 1: shows and Tuesday and then Wednesday because it's college football.
Speaker 1: After Thanksgiving, slims down the schedule, slims down. You go
Speaker 1: to conference championships. There's that Wednesday. I've noticed it for
Speaker 1: years of my business. That Wednesday are like, God, wouldn't
Speaker 1: it be granted, tonight was NBA opening night, So you
Speaker 1: would push it back a month late August to the
Speaker 1: Wednesday after Thanksgiving. You'd cut it down to about sixty
Speaker 1: six sixty eight games. It would end July first, so
Speaker 1: you'd push it back a little longer. There's nothing going
Speaker 1: on in June and July early, and it would just
Speaker 1: be a real estate move. Like the NFL moved free
Speaker 1: agency to March. It was because they want they wanted
Speaker 1: to take away some March madness. They saw opportunities. It
Speaker 1: would be a you're just buying different beach property. You'd
Speaker 1: move it back to after it that you have no
Speaker 1: shot to compete until after Thanksgiving. It's just it's just
Speaker 1: too much football. But then college football dims a little bit,
Speaker 1: and the NBA and then cut the games down. But
Speaker 1: you have the summer's wide open. I mean June and
Speaker 1: early July are wide open, and then June July first
Speaker 1: you crown your champion. You have the draft four days later.
Speaker 1: Thanks for Flying United and FL camp. NFL camps open
Speaker 1: NFL camp's open three days later, and it's perfect. The
Speaker 1: NFL has been great at this. They just keep buying
Speaker 1: different real estate. Moving out of this the end. The
Speaker 1: NFL gives you June in the first week of July.
Speaker 4: Take it.
Speaker 1: They give it to you. You're not going to beat
Speaker 1: him head to head. There we go, all right, good stuff,
Speaker 1: Jason timp hoops tonight. Sorry Milwaukee, Indiana fans, Sorry Pelican fans.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about you in a later date.
Speaker 4: I'll cover I'll cover them tomorrow. We'll get to We'll
Speaker 4: get to them tomorrow.
Speaker 1: All right, Buddy, good seeing you. Thanks the volume, Thanks
Speaker 1: so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast, take
Speaker 1: a moment rate and review